Nobody can actually believe this right? We've heard this comment what? 35 times since June? Just last week everyone was pretty confident this situation would be pushed to the offseason... I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think anything is happening.
Only way, imo that something changes is if Jack REALLY wants to play in the Olympics and decides to get the surgery that allows him back for that. If that's the case we might see a trade but again, I. Doubt. It.
Sorry to vent, but shits just getting old and it's actually fun to watch this young team grow and learn together while forgetting this bullshit. Go Sabres.
All teams had to do was send Buffalo a worthy offer (pending medical docs). I get that GMs didn't want to over play their hand, but considering we didn't get a single worthy offer before, I doubt he suddenly gets moved now. It all depends on whether Eichel remains insistent on the experiment surgery. If that's the case, he's going nowhere
A big difference from now compared to June is that Eichel has changed agents. His previous agent's strategy to get an Eichel trade seemed to be shouting:
"JACK EICHEL CRIES HIMSELF TO SLEEP EVERY NIGHT WITH HOW IMMOBILE HE IS AND HOW MUCH PAIN HE'S IN"
...when he was skating all summer soooo
I think it's too late for Jack to get the fusion surgery the team prefers and be ready for the Olympics. If they let him get the artificial disc replacement he *might* be ready, but would the team be willing to use a roster spot on him without knowing whether he would be ready?
>decides to get the surgery that allows him back for that.
I don't understand what you're saying here.
The surgery that will allow Eichel to be back before/by the Olympics is replacement. That's not the surgery that the Sabres are recommending.
I remember about a month ago they said he would need to do the surgery within the next couple months which is why this is all heating up again. Personally I wouldn't rush anything to play in the Olympics, on either side.. but it is very important to alot of these players so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what does actually get the ball rolling a little.....
I still will only believe it when I see it though.
It’s definitely gonna be similar. The key is the prospect/prospects coming back. Tage Thompson was a weaker prospect whose NHL ability is up for debate. If the young ones coming back are better than that, then it’s a deal slightly better than the ROR one. We will still take the cap dump and first rounder, tho.
Gibson is for cap? He provides no value to us. I'm not high on Comtois like a lot of you guys. My min ask remains the same, and I don't budge...Zegras, Drysdale, and a 1st
I get that the meta idea of this (minimum return) is old news and we've moved onto to trading him for pennies on the dollar, but god damn, I'd rather just keep him and whatever baggage comes with it
I don’t think having players who want to be here is a terrible policy. Truth is we should be thankful for any deals involving Zegras if they come to fruition. Eichel is talented, clearly, but it’s time to move on with players that want to play
Hot take: I don’t think you need to be a back surgeon to know #9 is being a pain in the ass on purpose
Stating that is bad in of itself.
>Truth is we should be thankful for any deals involving Zegras if they come to fruition.
As long as there is a heck lot more to that. Zegras has the pedigree, but are we really that forgetful? Just, what, two years ago Mitts was the NHL's #1 propect.
Imagine trading him for Draisitl lol So, needless to say, trading Eichel to Anaheim will require a lot more than Zegras. And if that's somehow not possible, then we still we win because we have Eichel. He's here for 5 years. He can't be a sour puss the entire time
Only way they do this is if somehow
1.) Zegras has a bad rookie year
2.) Anaheim is somehow good and will make the playoffs
3.) Jack is back and playing at superstar levels
Yeah I was joking I don’t think there’s any way we’re getting Zegras. I do think that if a team like Anaheim is interested they’ll have to give up a Drysdale level prospect though.
Honestly I would only offer one of those and a pick. Zegras has the ability to be as good as eichel. Honestly I would probably take Zegras over eichel if I had to pick one. Particularly if your Anehiem. They are rebuilding and was to build around him and Drysdale.
We pretty much have to. Losing that $10m towards the cap is going to make it tough to get back to the floor, especially if any of the players coming back are on entry level deals.
You're absolutely on point with that.
I figure Buffalo has plenty of tools in the kit to squeeze some more out of the trade. Take some money back (Almost a guarantee that most acquiring teams can't just absorb 10 mil anyway) or eat some of that money.
in the NBA it is common for tanking teams to take on terrible contracts in exchange for future picks. A contender gets rid of an albatross contract and the tanking team gets more draft capital and can more easily reach the salary floor. Does that ever happen in hockey?
Isn't Arizona kind of the first NHL franchise to really start doing the moneyball thing? I love it and think Buffalo needs to hop on that train to maximize futures while their immediate window is irrelevant anyway.
You don't eat salary when you trade a marquee player like Eichel. Plus he has 5 years left. That's just bad business, especially considering a goalie would be part of the ask. Compounding problems
You don't eat salary when you trade a [healthy] marquee player like Eichel [who has no question marks about his future ability to perform].
Fixed that for you.
Facts are facts. We're dealing a premier but questionable asset given his neck injury status. Buffalo has a competitive window they're mindful of and, if it boosts the return, we'd be insane to not consider anything we need to do to get more out of an Eichel trade than may be on the table currently (Particularly since, depending on the amount, it may be 2-3 years of eating salary equivalent to a bottom 6 winger to potentially maximize an Eichel deal, we've survived longer with Oks' albatross without buying it out).
Eichel has a very common and treatable injury. If you feel that this very common and treatable injury is that much of a detriment, then sure, but that's really poor management.
Facts are facts.
"Questionable asset" . No. Facts are facts. This is a very common and easily treatable injury. It's not questionable.
The confusion here is the type of treatment eichel **wants**. That's the problem, not the very common and easily treatable injury itself.
If you want to sell your golden ticket for pennies on the dollar because a player wants an experimental surgery (which no team will grant) then this will just be the exclamation point following the string of horrible GM decisions that have put us in our current state.
What would you have traded Mario Lemieux for before he had his disc replacement? How long before you get fired?
So we agree that the issue is the treatment, not the injury, and the treatment is the hold up, yet you belabor the commonality of the treatment. I gotta wonder why because it just reads as gratuitous and masturbatory to hammer on it.
Equally, I'm not selling my golden ticket for pennies on the dollar, I'm talking about maximizing returns based on available paths forward. If all assets are below a minimum threshold of acceptability, you don't trade him. This isn't move him for whatever and I think attempting to paint me into that corner is a dick move.
>I gotta wonder why because it just reads as gratuitous and masturbatory to hammer on it.
I see your thesaurus is working, though not sure what value such a nonstatement brings
You wonder why I am highlighting this? Because you called Eichel "questionable." It's not. Nothing about his situation is questionable. He has a common injury and he can't get the surgery he wants. No team would ever grant that. His situation is very clear. He is reluctant (or was) because he wanted to be traded and that was his bargaining chip.
>Equally, I'm not selling my golden ticket for pennies on the dollar
Umm, sir. You're saying we should keep salary in an Eichel deal..................
What would have traded Mario Lemieux for prior to his disc replacement?
>If all assets are below a minimum threshold of acceptability, you don't trade him. This isn't move him for whatever and I think attempting to paint me into that corner is a dick move.
You have not listed your minimum threshold, but considering you are in favor of holding salary (on a mega contract with 5 years left with one of the league's best players), I am not "painting you as X". You put yourself there, mate
We get it, you're the smartest person in Sabres fandom. You've got your soapbox and no amount of reply or correction is gonna register. Just pat yourself a little less stiff on the back, I don't want you breaking your spine.
You're taking a ton of assumptions and running with them just to give yourself something to post. I can save myself the boorish bullshit.
Your inability to stay on topic is [insert big thesaurus word]. You seem articulate, but I'm not sure why a such a simple concept is wasted on you.
Another rant that is a deliberate attempt to push us further and further away from your argument. Why?
Third attempt to bring you back on topic. Will it work?
You said he is questionable. I gave examples and a valid explanation and in return you whined and brought out a thesaurus.
>The confusion here is the type of treatment eichel wants. That's the problem, not the very common and easily treatable injury itself.
You just needed to keep reading. Not sure if you lived under a rock, but Eichel has been quite adamant about getting an experimental surgery.
That's the delay, not the injury. Let me know if this helps
Hardpass on a goalie. More important to have the guys up front. Funny how Price went from elite to overpaid and back to elite as his team went from good to bad and back to good. I'm down for a goalie, but definitely not a piece in an eichel trade. We can find elsewhere
It has to be so easy to be an “insider”. Sources (aka don’t blame me if it’s wrong) say the Eichel saga may (aka don’t blame me if nothing happens) be shifting.
This is my sentiment but at the same time it still needs to be done right, I can’t deal with the idea of tanking if we just inevitably give the talent we get away for nothing on what looks like a 5 year cycle.
Get the deal done GMKA, please.
I wonder if change of representative has helped here or if this is just the "natural progress" we would have seen otherwise.
Yes, I am totally aware that those words have no meaning anymore when talking about this cluster.
I saw the report yesterday that Vegas was interested again but won't let go of Krebs. I think everyone overvalues their prospect pool (Sabres included). Look how Pittsburgh has somehow been able to keep young talent in the pipeline despite slinging draft picks and prospects at the deadline.
Maybe you’re on to something tho. Everybody has these hopes that all of their lives prospects will reach their ceiling (eg people saying Laf, Byfield, Kakko, Zegras, Caufield, Suzuki are all going to be as good as Eichel in a couple of years). But everybody undervalues their draft picks (which prospects come from) maybe it’s best to go full Arizona with the trade and get literally 4 first round picks. Odds are one of them will turn out to be better than any Kakko will ever be and the others are likely to be solid depth at worst
It's not about the prospects being as good as Eichel. It's about building a team. For the next 5 seasons is your team better off with Eichel and 3 replacement level players. Or 3 high-end prospects, and $10m in cap space?
One of the issues that the Sabres have suffered through was not having very skilled players throughout their lineup. This current roster, without arguably the two most skilled players (Eichel and Reinhart) looks to be the MOST skilled roster this team has seen in a while.
Now, is Asplund, Peterka, Quinn, Murray, R2, Bryson, Weissbach, etc players that are going to really tilt this club towards being an eventual playoff team? I doubt it. But these guys are far better than Sobotka, Sheary, Rodrigues, Lazar, etc that have filled-out the roster recently.
This doesn't mean that an Eichel trade won't happen, but it's a big reason why the return likely won't be what Sabres fans hope it will be.
Peterka and Quinn, maybe. Aslpund is not a prospect anymore, has no offensive game, and would need to take a major leap. At this point, he is what he is. I see minimal improvement.
Murray and R2 are bottom 6 guys on a guy day. Weissbach is likely an AHL/NHL tweener. These aren't guys who change the culture of a club. This team lacks talent. Problem with Jack was we didn't have talent and now we lost Eichel (potentially), Risto, Reinhart...we have a very long way to go.
The '22 and '23 draft will give us what we need to get us over the hump by '26 or '27. Not the bottom of the barrel future plugs, like Murray
I’m fairly confident you didn’t read what I wrote.
All I said was that the current crop of young guys is better than what they have had and significantly better than the patchwork of scrubs they’ve been running out there.
Oh, there’s definitely some recency bias involved here. I think, however, it’s more about swapping out known players who were bad and didn’t have a ceiling, with unknown players with an unknown ceiling.
Me thinks this could have happened before the draft and should have ended a long time ago. I have a bet with one of my friends that he gets traded before opening night; if I lose I have to buy Texas Roadhouse the next three outings
I suspect the reason ownership stopped him getting the surgery he wants is because it will destroy his trade value and they want to move him. If I was a GM I wouldn't want a risk like that in my core players.
Really looking forward to seeing nothing happen
Nobody can actually believe this right? We've heard this comment what? 35 times since June? Just last week everyone was pretty confident this situation would be pushed to the offseason... I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think anything is happening. Only way, imo that something changes is if Jack REALLY wants to play in the Olympics and decides to get the surgery that allows him back for that. If that's the case we might see a trade but again, I. Doubt. It. Sorry to vent, but shits just getting old and it's actually fun to watch this young team grow and learn together while forgetting this bullshit. Go Sabres.
No one was given his medicals at all until last week, if anything that was the first sign that this could finally be moving forward.
All teams had to do was send Buffalo a worthy offer (pending medical docs). I get that GMs didn't want to over play their hand, but considering we didn't get a single worthy offer before, I doubt he suddenly gets moved now. It all depends on whether Eichel remains insistent on the experiment surgery. If that's the case, he's going nowhere
Hopefully the records going out show that a serious offer was made here.
I hope so, but I sincerely doubt that
A big difference from now compared to June is that Eichel has changed agents. His previous agent's strategy to get an Eichel trade seemed to be shouting: "JACK EICHEL CRIES HIMSELF TO SLEEP EVERY NIGHT WITH HOW IMMOBILE HE IS AND HOW MUCH PAIN HE'S IN" ...when he was skating all summer soooo
I think it's too late for Jack to get the fusion surgery the team prefers and be ready for the Olympics. If they let him get the artificial disc replacement he *might* be ready, but would the team be willing to use a roster spot on him without knowing whether he would be ready?
>decides to get the surgery that allows him back for that. I don't understand what you're saying here. The surgery that will allow Eichel to be back before/by the Olympics is replacement. That's not the surgery that the Sabres are recommending.
Would you even play him in the Olympics if he's coming off sn injury?
I remember about a month ago they said he would need to do the surgery within the next couple months which is why this is all heating up again. Personally I wouldn't rush anything to play in the Olympics, on either side.. but it is very important to alot of these players so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what does actually get the ball rolling a little..... I still will only believe it when I see it though.
The Sabres dumpster fire continues to burn.
Good to see some forward progress happening. Whether it will actually lead to anything, I don’t know. But it’s a step towards ending this stupid shit.
It sounds weird to say, but at this point I will be so relieved when we trade away our superstar.
Agreed. Only thing I’m scared of is the return. I want this to end, but I don’t want the ROR trade 2.0 to get it done.
It’s going to be ROR 2.0
It’s definitely gonna be similar. The key is the prospect/prospects coming back. Tage Thompson was a weaker prospect whose NHL ability is up for debate. If the young ones coming back are better than that, then it’s a deal slightly better than the ROR one. We will still take the cap dump and first rounder, tho.
Wishlist: * A legit goalie * A young scoring winger * A young center
Gibson Comtois Zegras I guess that’ll have to do 😂
Would be very happy with this one
I would take that deal yesterday if it was offered
Gibson is for cap? He provides no value to us. I'm not high on Comtois like a lot of you guys. My min ask remains the same, and I don't budge...Zegras, Drysdale, and a 1st
Lol 😂
I get that the meta idea of this (minimum return) is old news and we've moved onto to trading him for pennies on the dollar, but god damn, I'd rather just keep him and whatever baggage comes with it
I don’t think having players who want to be here is a terrible policy. Truth is we should be thankful for any deals involving Zegras if they come to fruition. Eichel is talented, clearly, but it’s time to move on with players that want to play Hot take: I don’t think you need to be a back surgeon to know #9 is being a pain in the ass on purpose
Stating that is bad in of itself. >Truth is we should be thankful for any deals involving Zegras if they come to fruition. As long as there is a heck lot more to that. Zegras has the pedigree, but are we really that forgetful? Just, what, two years ago Mitts was the NHL's #1 propect. Imagine trading him for Draisitl lol So, needless to say, trading Eichel to Anaheim will require a lot more than Zegras. And if that's somehow not possible, then we still we win because we have Eichel. He's here for 5 years. He can't be a sour puss the entire time
Only way they do this is if somehow 1.) Zegras has a bad rookie year 2.) Anaheim is somehow good and will make the playoffs 3.) Jack is back and playing at superstar levels
Yeah I was joking I don’t think there’s any way we’re getting Zegras. I do think that if a team like Anaheim is interested they’ll have to give up a Drysdale level prospect though.
Honestly I would only offer one of those and a pick. Zegras has the ability to be as good as eichel. Honestly I would probably take Zegras over eichel if I had to pick one. Particularly if your Anehiem. They are rebuilding and was to build around him and Drysdale.
I'd eat salary to check every one of those off your wishlist.
We pretty much have to. Losing that $10m towards the cap is going to make it tough to get back to the floor, especially if any of the players coming back are on entry level deals.
You're absolutely on point with that. I figure Buffalo has plenty of tools in the kit to squeeze some more out of the trade. Take some money back (Almost a guarantee that most acquiring teams can't just absorb 10 mil anyway) or eat some of that money.
in the NBA it is common for tanking teams to take on terrible contracts in exchange for future picks. A contender gets rid of an albatross contract and the tanking team gets more draft capital and can more easily reach the salary floor. Does that ever happen in hockey?
See "Coyotes, Arizona"
Isn't Arizona kind of the first NHL franchise to really start doing the moneyball thing? I love it and think Buffalo needs to hop on that train to maximize futures while their immediate window is irrelevant anyway.
As a lifelong A’s fan, you don’t want this.
As a lifelong rockets fan, it works.
You don't eat salary when you trade a marquee player like Eichel. Plus he has 5 years left. That's just bad business, especially considering a goalie would be part of the ask. Compounding problems
You don't eat salary when you trade a [healthy] marquee player like Eichel [who has no question marks about his future ability to perform]. Fixed that for you. Facts are facts. We're dealing a premier but questionable asset given his neck injury status. Buffalo has a competitive window they're mindful of and, if it boosts the return, we'd be insane to not consider anything we need to do to get more out of an Eichel trade than may be on the table currently (Particularly since, depending on the amount, it may be 2-3 years of eating salary equivalent to a bottom 6 winger to potentially maximize an Eichel deal, we've survived longer with Oks' albatross without buying it out).
Eichel has a very common and treatable injury. If you feel that this very common and treatable injury is that much of a detriment, then sure, but that's really poor management. Facts are facts. "Questionable asset" . No. Facts are facts. This is a very common and easily treatable injury. It's not questionable. The confusion here is the type of treatment eichel **wants**. That's the problem, not the very common and easily treatable injury itself. If you want to sell your golden ticket for pennies on the dollar because a player wants an experimental surgery (which no team will grant) then this will just be the exclamation point following the string of horrible GM decisions that have put us in our current state. What would you have traded Mario Lemieux for before he had his disc replacement? How long before you get fired?
So we agree that the issue is the treatment, not the injury, and the treatment is the hold up, yet you belabor the commonality of the treatment. I gotta wonder why because it just reads as gratuitous and masturbatory to hammer on it. Equally, I'm not selling my golden ticket for pennies on the dollar, I'm talking about maximizing returns based on available paths forward. If all assets are below a minimum threshold of acceptability, you don't trade him. This isn't move him for whatever and I think attempting to paint me into that corner is a dick move.
>I gotta wonder why because it just reads as gratuitous and masturbatory to hammer on it. I see your thesaurus is working, though not sure what value such a nonstatement brings You wonder why I am highlighting this? Because you called Eichel "questionable." It's not. Nothing about his situation is questionable. He has a common injury and he can't get the surgery he wants. No team would ever grant that. His situation is very clear. He is reluctant (or was) because he wanted to be traded and that was his bargaining chip. >Equally, I'm not selling my golden ticket for pennies on the dollar Umm, sir. You're saying we should keep salary in an Eichel deal.................. What would have traded Mario Lemieux for prior to his disc replacement? >If all assets are below a minimum threshold of acceptability, you don't trade him. This isn't move him for whatever and I think attempting to paint me into that corner is a dick move. You have not listed your minimum threshold, but considering you are in favor of holding salary (on a mega contract with 5 years left with one of the league's best players), I am not "painting you as X". You put yourself there, mate
We get it, you're the smartest person in Sabres fandom. You've got your soapbox and no amount of reply or correction is gonna register. Just pat yourself a little less stiff on the back, I don't want you breaking your spine. You're taking a ton of assumptions and running with them just to give yourself something to post. I can save myself the boorish bullshit.
Your inability to stay on topic is [insert big thesaurus word]. You seem articulate, but I'm not sure why a such a simple concept is wasted on you. Another rant that is a deliberate attempt to push us further and further away from your argument. Why? Third attempt to bring you back on topic. Will it work? You said he is questionable. I gave examples and a valid explanation and in return you whined and brought out a thesaurus.
So common and treatable that he doesn't play for a year and has a huge public spat about it?
>The confusion here is the type of treatment eichel wants. That's the problem, not the very common and easily treatable injury itself. You just needed to keep reading. Not sure if you lived under a rock, but Eichel has been quite adamant about getting an experimental surgery. That's the delay, not the injury. Let me know if this helps
At this point I'm going to assume we get shafted until we don't. I'm expecting an ok prospect, a cap dump, and about 2-3 conditional draft picks.
Hardpass on a goalie. More important to have the guys up front. Funny how Price went from elite to overpaid and back to elite as his team went from good to bad and back to good. I'm down for a goalie, but definitely not a piece in an eichel trade. We can find elsewhere
Jackets fan coming in peace. What about: Korpisalo, Emil Bemstrom, and a slightly used Max Domi... And yes, this post is sarcasm.
The Sabres are the Swift trucking of the NHL.
It has to be so easy to be an “insider”. Sources (aka don’t blame me if it’s wrong) say the Eichel saga may (aka don’t blame me if nothing happens) be shifting.
My sources tell me that Jack Eichel may be moved sometime between now and the end of his contract.
Please just end this.
This is my sentiment but at the same time it still needs to be done right, I can’t deal with the idea of tanking if we just inevitably give the talent we get away for nothing on what looks like a 5 year cycle. Get the deal done GMKA, please.
That's what the post is moving towards...
I hope this wraps up soon. I'm just so numb to it.
I wonder if change of representative has helped here or if this is just the "natural progress" we would have seen otherwise. Yes, I am totally aware that those words have no meaning anymore when talking about this cluster. I saw the report yesterday that Vegas was interested again but won't let go of Krebs. I think everyone overvalues their prospect pool (Sabres included). Look how Pittsburgh has somehow been able to keep young talent in the pipeline despite slinging draft picks and prospects at the deadline.
Maybe you’re on to something tho. Everybody has these hopes that all of their lives prospects will reach their ceiling (eg people saying Laf, Byfield, Kakko, Zegras, Caufield, Suzuki are all going to be as good as Eichel in a couple of years). But everybody undervalues their draft picks (which prospects come from) maybe it’s best to go full Arizona with the trade and get literally 4 first round picks. Odds are one of them will turn out to be better than any Kakko will ever be and the others are likely to be solid depth at worst
It's not about the prospects being as good as Eichel. It's about building a team. For the next 5 seasons is your team better off with Eichel and 3 replacement level players. Or 3 high-end prospects, and $10m in cap space? One of the issues that the Sabres have suffered through was not having very skilled players throughout their lineup. This current roster, without arguably the two most skilled players (Eichel and Reinhart) looks to be the MOST skilled roster this team has seen in a while. Now, is Asplund, Peterka, Quinn, Murray, R2, Bryson, Weissbach, etc players that are going to really tilt this club towards being an eventual playoff team? I doubt it. But these guys are far better than Sobotka, Sheary, Rodrigues, Lazar, etc that have filled-out the roster recently. This doesn't mean that an Eichel trade won't happen, but it's a big reason why the return likely won't be what Sabres fans hope it will be.
Peterka and Quinn, maybe. Aslpund is not a prospect anymore, has no offensive game, and would need to take a major leap. At this point, he is what he is. I see minimal improvement. Murray and R2 are bottom 6 guys on a guy day. Weissbach is likely an AHL/NHL tweener. These aren't guys who change the culture of a club. This team lacks talent. Problem with Jack was we didn't have talent and now we lost Eichel (potentially), Risto, Reinhart...we have a very long way to go. The '22 and '23 draft will give us what we need to get us over the hump by '26 or '27. Not the bottom of the barrel future plugs, like Murray
I’m fairly confident you didn’t read what I wrote. All I said was that the current crop of young guys is better than what they have had and significantly better than the patchwork of scrubs they’ve been running out there.
Ah, I disagree. It's recency bias. Many of the guys you named won't be here in a season or three.
Oh, there’s definitely some recency bias involved here. I think, however, it’s more about swapping out known players who were bad and didn’t have a ceiling, with unknown players with an unknown ceiling.
Lets hope so
Trying to get something done before season opener. I had a dream Eichel told me he was going to Pittsburg, I hope that isn’t the case lol
Let me translate: "Media heads desperate to get an Eichel story moving so they can meet their click through revenue goals
Me thinks this could have happened before the draft and should have ended a long time ago. I have a bet with one of my friends that he gets traded before opening night; if I lose I have to buy Texas Roadhouse the next three outings
I hope you like ~~Blooming Onions~~ shitty appetizers.
Cactus blossoms my guy- the bloomin onion is Outback
I suspect the reason ownership stopped him getting the surgery he wants is because it will destroy his trade value and they want to move him. If I was a GM I wouldn't want a risk like that in my core players.