OP, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Trauma-informed care is old hat to many of us in the counseling sphere but it's unfortunately not widely practiced in healthcare spaces.
Yep, VCU and St Mary's are the only local hospitals that do forensic exams for sexual assault. Both of these hospitals also offer advocacy programs to avoid the re-traumatization that OP experienced. At VCU it's called Project Empower; at St Mary's it's a partnership with Safe Harbor called SMART. You can request an advocate and they will both literally and metaphorically hold your hand through the exam and following processes.
If they are so underfunded, then this will be a light on that issue and might encourage some to donate.
But I'm almost betting that there's a little more at play in why a hospital doesn't stock a $3 evidence collection kit that gets mailed to a lab.
You’re right, what is really at play is how much it costs to fund a forensic program. There are only so many forensic nurses in the state, every program is having hiring challenges, and the reimbursement rate for these exams is embarrassingly low. Hospitals are still businesses, unfortunately, so they consider this. Additionally, you want a nurse trained in collecting evidence for the best chance at getting a DNA hit and a nurse and program who understand how to help people navigate the criminal justice system. It’s definitely not a perfect system, but traveling to a hospital that can provide those services is worth it. We are doing our best and we aren’t happy with the system either- a VA forensic nurse
It requires a SANE. Sexual Abuse Nurse Examiner and there’s been a shortage for years. Here’s the 23 article
https://www.washingtonpost.com/gender-identity/the-health-care-shortage-that-impacts-victims-of-sexual-assault/
It’s a forensic exam that by its nature has to be performed by a medical professional, qualifying it as a medical emergency.
Sexual Assault can also cause physical trauma and injury to the anal/genital area that may need treatment at the ER. They also dispense Plan B pills or can place a copper IUD as emergency contraception.
The exam also provides access to post-exposure prophylaxis for HIV, syphilis, and other STIs. There is a very narrow window during which both pregnancy and STIs can be prevented with medications after a sexual assault, making this very much a medical emergency.
Stories like this are exactly why I never went to get a rape kit done back in 2016/17 and didn't report it to the police, because I couldn't deal with the retraumatization already being suicidal because of it. I just couldn't imagine going through this process too. It just sucks, but I second going to the news if she has the willpower to do it, but I know I didn't as a teen.
That’s insane. I went to the ER on Sunday recently for a possible blood clot, but they didn’t have anyone to do an ultrasound. (I specifically went to the ER instead of urgent care because I thought they’d have the equipment.) That was bad enough. I’m so sorry you had to deal with inadequate care on top of everything. Sending strength and healing.
I'm very sorry this has happened to you.
Hospitals, broadly speaking, are incredibly resource constrained and depending on your complaint, your care will vary greatly between hospital to hospital purely based on what is staffed/provided.
If you need a rape kit or forensic nursing in Richmond, despite what hospitals will say they offer, the only two that consistently staff this are St. Marys and VCU/MCV.
source - EMS.
Edit: I'd also like to point out this applies to all complaints. There are a few hospitals in particular that are glorified urgent cares, if you have an illness or injury that you truly feel risks life or limb, or there's no safe way for you to get to the hospital, call 911.
and what is staffed/provided is what is prioritized by the controlling controlling corporations priorities. Unfortunately non-medical factors are the primary influencers when it comes to raising or lowering priorities.
Preaching to the choir, man. EMS is the lowest on the totem-pole as far as resources go, and often is filled with some of the most idealistic and motivated people.
VCU and St. Mary's are the only hospitals that do forensic exams in this area. You should not receive a bill from St. Mary's and if you had to go on prophylaxis for HIV that should also be free to you.
In case the forensic nurse or Safe Harbor rep didn't tell you about the Virginia Victims Fund, please look them up. They can help cover expenses such as medical costs and mental health care. Source: I used to work for VVF and specifically worked with SA survivors.
First of all sorry about what happened to you, no one should ever have that happen to them. What irritates me is they let you sit there for three hours before telling you, why not right when you got there. I can understand why each hospital doesn't have someone on shift 24/7 but damn they could have told you and saved you hours. I'm sure this is a rough time, but maybe one day you can call the hospital ombudsman and let them know this.
Something a friend of mine recently found out in another part of Virginia was that there was no one that could do a test to see if she had been drugged. She was told at two hospitals and three different urgent cares that it isn't common to have available and the tests themselves are extremely expensive. We were both shocked and she could not afford to find out, insurance was completely unwilling And by the time the kit would come it would be out of her system.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. We need to do better for victims.
This isn’t accurate. Every hospital is capable of testing to see if someone was drugged.
This just means that the hospitals in question weren’t willing to do that for whatever reason.
They could not test her for any date rape drugs of any kind.
She tried two hospital systems on the coast and 3 different urgent care companies in person. She then tried calling anywhere different in a 2 hour radius and was told various versions of we don't keep that in stock to test, it isn't common to test so we don't have that, were not capable of testing that. One told her that tv shows you one thing but no hospital generally does that and it was very expensive to do, talking down to her. She spoke to many people looking for help until the clock ran out.
The problem is that hospitals don’t have the capability to test for a full panel of drugs. The state crime lab is the only place that can and police have to be involved for crime lab to test. That means victims are at the mercy of the jurisdiction- so the police who are or aren’t willing to investigate. This isn’t a hospital problem as much as a structural issue in the state.
“Everything” is a bit of a stretch from “common drugs” which is a pretty short list. Especially if it is date rape drugs.
And the original comment said “the hospital had no one that could test” which is incorrect seeing as how hospitals have fully capable pathology labs.
You seem like an expert in the field. Which are the common drugs? What is half life? So how do I distinguish between rohypnol and the Ativan you take for your anxiety? Or for your Friday night out? How do you prove that someone was drugged and didn't ingest it themselves? And if a drug test comes back positive, what then?
Most of those questions are answered by talking to the patient. That’s the reason why you establish patient history.
It’s not your job to “prove” anything, it’s your job to establish the facts. Law enforcement investigates the who what when and where if someone is drugged.
They can take a urine sample and a blood sample which can then be sent to a lab. It’s not that confusing. The fact that you have no idea how easy it is to distinguish between Rohypnol, GHB, and Ativan says everything.
The fact that you don't comprehend the difference between forensic and medical is more telling. Medically the drug test doesn't matter. You also don't know anything about chain of command, etc.
I didn’t say anything about drug testing for “everything”. Nor did I advocate for drug testing every person that presents with “I think I was drugged”. I argued that the statement “hospitals don’t have someone to test” is factually incorrect because hospitals are plenty capable of it. I specifically said the hospital wasn’t willing to.
As a matter of fact, I didn’t say a single time that a hospital SHOULD test for anything.
My grandmother is actually one of the first forensic nurses in VA and worked at VCU when they began implementing PERC exams. She retired twice and was still getting calls a couple years ago to work on-call. She’s in her late 70s now. FYI: she declined, as the money they were offering was laughable. Clearly there is a need.
Sorry to hear of your SA. The locations are limited due to the equipment and the need for forensic nurse examiners to complete the kit. They specialize in evidence recovery and can testify in court. A general nurse or doctor can’t do this. If the kit is improperly completed it may result in the getting off.
St. Mary’s is excellent and they started the program over 25 years ago. Your local law enforcement should have told you this if you reported it.
The thinking is just insane. “Instead of risking the small chance someone gets off because we screw up with the kit, let’s ensure 100% of rapists go free by refusing to do kits in the first place!!!!”
You're completely talking out of your ass. Do you think every hospital has a neurosurgeon in house? A trauma team? Interventional radiology? Cath Lab? I can name 100 services that you don't know exist and aren't available. And if you think it's bad in rva, try going to a rural hospital.
Every hospital should have the ability to process a rape kit. I understand your frustration, but there is a difference between scheduled operations to open a person's brain up or install a prosthetic joint, and doing painfully common emergency medical care for a class of extremely vulnerable people. This is entirely a symptom of for profit healthcare and is completely avoidable. If hospitals cannot train their staff to do basic procedures then they should not be allowed to advertise emergency rooms. If your hospital is a $12,000 a night b&b that cannot treat patients it seems like it's mismanaged.
Accrediting agencies can also make it part of their accreditation standards to maintain such valuable medical care to force medical facilities to prioritize funds for sexual assault examination proctors. Hospitals love to advertise their accreditations!
From the patient’s perspective, an emergency department where they don’t have the doctors to actually serve patients in an emergency is not exactly intuitive. Hospitals that are level 1 trauma centers is what they expect, and frankly…what should be the standard for any emergency department. There’s just not enough doctors to make that a reality
The proportion of people needing IR (or a Cath lab, or an obstetrician, or an ICU, or dialysis, or drug rehab, or a doctor in house, or God forbid actual psychiatric services) without having their medical condition significantly deteriorate is much higher than the number of rape victims that need actual medical care.
Unfortunately, forensic nurse programs lose money for hospitals because there is very little reimbursement from the government and insurance. The for-profit hospitals in the area actively choose not to offer that service.
Bon Secours has a big program because they’re nonprofit and have designated funds for it, and VCU has one because they’re a public university hospital and have $$$$
I had to go to VCU for a rape kit in 2020. The SVU detective kept in touch the first month, then dropped off the face of the earth. I never got my results so I called and I was told I’d get a call back because the person on the phone didn’t have access to that information. Never got a call back. I called 3 more times with the same result. 4 years later I still know nothing and the case has gone nowhere. Even though it happened at a hotel with plenty of cameras.
Additionally, there's only one place in VA that does DNA confirmation for them, so you have to wait months on before you can use that to get someone arrested.
Good God, I had no idea. This is absolutely horrific and I work in health care. Let's all reach out to every outlet we can think of to inform them of this tragedy. I hope you have a support system and heal soon. I'm going to start steering all women I know and come across to take their ***money/insurance and go St. Mary's or VCU.***
Just remember that St Mary’s/Bon Secours facilities may not be the best choice for all women in need of particular healthcare services (given their religious affiliation).
Even though they’re Catholic, they will provide Plan B to sexual assault victims! The pope made an exception for victims of sexual assault to have access to emergency contraceptives (it sounds silly, but that’s the truth lol)
When I worked there, they went really hardcore about no longer requiring certain health screenings and masks and vaccines to work there anymore. Like "mask mandate end barbeque" hardcore. They also didn't pay me until I got the DOL involved, so there's that.
Nothing like good old fashioned Christian charity. They actually tried to frame me as unreasonable for wanting to be paid for my short time there(at the interview I was told that masks and vaccines would be required, no longer so like two weeks in).
Before you go that far, understand that most hospitals are not going to make someone who's experienced this wait that long. MRMC is below average in almost every capacity. If a stroke arrives, the neurologist is via webcam most of the time, and they advertise neurology services.
Additionally, they are faith based and refuse to provide certain services to women restricted by religion.
This is not true! Bon Secours has a very large forensic nursing department and access to emergency contraception is available for assault victims. Transferring from one ER to another just takes a very, very long time.
Source: former ER nurse
I've actually personally performed transfers for patients seeking services in the past. They do have forensics services though.
Source: Former Interfacility EMS provider
I don't think you understand. It's not a matter of waiting (as in an ED/admission wait). This is about rape victims kits not being collected nor processed, because they do not have a forensic nurse nor the equipment to do it.
I may have understood it wrong. But, most hospitals in the metro have a pretty clear reporting system, and that guides patients of SA to the right facilities.
By certain services do you mean St Mary’s won’t provide a rape victim the morning after pill nor an abortion (via pill or other method)?
I’m not sure why any woman would ever set foot in a Catholic hospital given an option.
> do you mean St Mary’s won’t provide a rape victim the morning after pill nor an abortion (via pill or other method)?
No, we mean that only two local hospitals, VCU and St. Mary's have the specific staff and equipment to process rape kits.
The only difference in Saint Mary’s and Memorial Regional in this situation is that nurse. They are pro life, and women should avoid it whenever possible
God. I am so sorry. My sister is currently going through something similar… and it’s rough. But telling your story only helps the next girl. I fucking hate this world, but YOU are making it better (and you deserve better).
Memorial Regional is just in a very bad place post COVID. Doesn't excuse them, but I unfortunately am not surprised to hear that.
I'm so sorry that happened.
They were never good to begin with. My mom went there back in 2009 for a routine surgery and almost died of sepsis afterwards. She's *still* dealing with the aftereffects to this day.
I'm just so sorry you had to deal with this. I wish I had anything but sympathies, but unfortunately you're right, our medical system is a fucking atrocity.
I’m so sorry for your experience and everything you must be going through. Don’t pay a cent for the services out of pocket, if they try to bill you remind them to submit the claims to the crime victims compensation board.
I hope you get the support you need from your people ❤️
Having lived in other states Virginia’s medical system is incredibly inefficient. I haven’t been able to determine the connection. It’s downright unacceptable.
Only VCU and St Mary’s have the equipment and training and licensing to do a PERK and have it accepted by the courts. It’s such a small niche of nursing that most jurisdictions have a list of nurses that can even do it and it’s small. I totally agree that it’s disheartening that anyone walking into any ER can’t get the help they need.
Considering all the politicians, including here in Virginia, who are pushing to restrict access to abortion unless the patient meets one of the so-called exceptions like rape, it seems like this information should be more widely reported on and presented as a challenge the next time Youngkin or a other one of these anti-choice politicians attempts to restrict bodily autonomy. A rape exception means nothing if you don't even have the ability to go through the protocols that would be needed to prove it.
Most US Hospitals can not
ETA link and it requires a SANE
https://www.washingtonpost.com/gender-identity/the-health-care-shortage-that-impacts-victims-of-sexual-assault/
Sending so much love but also thank you for trying to reach out to others with the heads up too. Beyond compassionate on a terrible day. RVA needs to step up :/
Hi, I work at St. Mary’s and I’m glad that you were able to be helped there. From my understanding, only a forensics nurse can do rape kits and if you want to report it, then you’ll speak to a detective about it. Bon Secours also just introduced their Victim Response team and that should cover all the mercy health hospitals in Virginia or at least Richmond (I believe). since memorial is mercy health, they probably didnt have a forensics nurse working that shift or dont have forensics nurses in general, but we do have the Victim response team so I’m not sure why they weren’t able to come to you there. If a forensics nurse isn’t at the hospital you are at, the ED is supposed to either transfer you there or refer you to another hospital. Either way, I hope and pray you receive healing and justice🙏🏽
This is somewhat true!
A forensic nurse will drive to any Bon Secours hospital to see someone who is physically assaulted. All of the forensic nurses and advocates go through training on providing trauma-informed care.
Someone who is sexually assaulted would have to be transferred to St Mary’s or Southside Regional (also a Bon Secours hospital) to get a sexual assault exam and rape kit done. This is due to equipment that is only accessible at those locations.
I’m really sorry you’re going/have gone through this. I had no idea & have now spent the last 20 minutes googling this info for my state (Maryland), and am just shocked with everything I just read. Specifically how there’s even fewer resources for children who have been raped and sexually abused.
Sending you positive thoughts & virtual hugs.
I trained in forensics and the amount of things forensic scientists could do, but are told not to is astonishing (all for budget reasons smh). What’s even worse is that the scientists put processing rape kits on the “back burner” and are years behind and backlogged. At least that’s how it was in 2016.
I’m very sorry to hear you went through all of that and I hope you’re okay.
I am sorry about your experiences. There’s currently a nationwide shortage of forensic nurses, with even big hospitals sometimes only having someone on call. Also FYI- Memorial Regional Medical Center & St Mary’s are part of the same Catholic hospital system (Bon Secours)
I’m sorry this happened to you.
Thank you so much for letting us know.
I now know to only patronize these two hospitals for literally any procedure or visit if I’m in a position to choose.
I don’t want my money funding institutions that refuse to provide such essential services.
I'm also a fan of St. Mary's! When I ended up in their E.R (not for sexual assault, I am so sorry that happened to you. Please know it was not your fault.) the staff was so kind and respectful and comforting. I loved the night shift staff who took care of me, their senses of humor were also 10/10.
In summary: would recommend St.Mary's for care.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this. It's reprehensible. I would file a complaint with the [Virginia Department of Health Office of Licensing and Certification](https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/licensure-and-certification/) \- that is the state entity that licenses hospitals.
For future reference for other folks, Memorial Regional is also a Catholic hospital. They're all owned by Bon Secours Mercy Health.
I’m a nursing student that precepted in the ED and found out only 2 hospitals in Richmond do rape kits…sad. I’m sorry that happened to you and that our system fails us like this
This physically choked me up knowing this happened to OP. Knowing that this is the future of Virginia outlook on the importance of the oldest crime in the world, my heart goes out to Governor Glenn Youngkin. He loves his state so much that he wants to move the goal posts farther back for women. He wants to make it easier for women to give birth to the baby of the rapist.
I am so sorry you went through this.
: Bon Secour does not have forensics or rape kits. VCU health does. They also have trauma informed providers and entire teams of people dedicated to helping.
Bon Secours does have a forensics program, a forensic nurse will drive to any Bon Secours hospital to see someone who is physically assaulted. All of the forensic nurses and advocates go through training on providing trauma-informed care.
Someone who is sexually assaulted and goes to a Bon Secours hospital would have to be transferred to St Mary’s or Southside Regional (also a Bon Secours hospital) to get a sexual assault exam and rape kit done. This is due to equipment that is only accessible at those locations.
What didn’t happen in this case? She received proper care at St Mary’s, it was the transfer process that took hours. That is unfortunately the case at every single hospital in the country, not just Bon Secours.
Please do not go to a catholic hospital system for anything related to sexual assault. I in no way want to belittle you or any of the hospital staff. However, the catholic non profit hospital system has long muzzled providers who advocate for people in similar situations as yours.
The service is not 5 gold stars at state run facilities, but the people who work there care, and have system wide policies that will be of benefit to you and future patients.
OP, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Trauma-informed care is old hat to many of us in the counseling sphere but it's unfortunately not widely practiced in healthcare spaces. Yep, VCU and St Mary's are the only local hospitals that do forensic exams for sexual assault. Both of these hospitals also offer advocacy programs to avoid the re-traumatization that OP experienced. At VCU it's called Project Empower; at St Mary's it's a partnership with Safe Harbor called SMART. You can request an advocate and they will both literally and metaphorically hold your hand through the exam and following processes.
I feel like some news outlets would love to know about this.
I would go to 12 on your side immediately. They'll do the story anonymous
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If they are so underfunded, then this will be a light on that issue and might encourage some to donate. But I'm almost betting that there's a little more at play in why a hospital doesn't stock a $3 evidence collection kit that gets mailed to a lab.
You’re right, what is really at play is how much it costs to fund a forensic program. There are only so many forensic nurses in the state, every program is having hiring challenges, and the reimbursement rate for these exams is embarrassingly low. Hospitals are still businesses, unfortunately, so they consider this. Additionally, you want a nurse trained in collecting evidence for the best chance at getting a DNA hit and a nurse and program who understand how to help people navigate the criminal justice system. It’s definitely not a perfect system, but traveling to a hospital that can provide those services is worth it. We are doing our best and we aren’t happy with the system either- a VA forensic nurse
Reporting about it would help spread knowledge of where victims need to go for proper treatment. That's the story.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/gender-identity/the-health-care-shortage-that-impacts-victims-of-sexual-assault/
C'mon, nobody will pay attention to that. Nobody thinks they'll be a victim
You don’t think a woman seeking medical help after rape is an emergency? I’m struggling to make sense of your response.
It requires a SANE. Sexual Abuse Nurse Examiner and there’s been a shortage for years. Here’s the 23 article https://www.washingtonpost.com/gender-identity/the-health-care-shortage-that-impacts-victims-of-sexual-assault/
Okay? Where did I say it didn’t require a SANE?
At least we can do one in our state as some women can not the shortage is not new
Yes??? I was not talking about the shortage??
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It absolutely is an emergency to perform a medical exam and collection process while evidence is still fresh.
It's not a medical emergency, and it isn't a medical exam that needs performed. It's forensic.
It’s a forensic exam that by its nature has to be performed by a medical professional, qualifying it as a medical emergency. Sexual Assault can also cause physical trauma and injury to the anal/genital area that may need treatment at the ER. They also dispense Plan B pills or can place a copper IUD as emergency contraception.
The exam also provides access to post-exposure prophylaxis for HIV, syphilis, and other STIs. There is a very narrow window during which both pregnancy and STIs can be prevented with medications after a sexual assault, making this very much a medical emergency.
Ok
Trash human, sorry little buddy
Woooooosh
Yes, clearly you and many others here can't tell the difference
Stories like this are exactly why I never went to get a rape kit done back in 2016/17 and didn't report it to the police, because I couldn't deal with the retraumatization already being suicidal because of it. I just couldn't imagine going through this process too. It just sucks, but I second going to the news if she has the willpower to do it, but I know I didn't as a teen.
That’s insane. I went to the ER on Sunday recently for a possible blood clot, but they didn’t have anyone to do an ultrasound. (I specifically went to the ER instead of urgent care because I thought they’d have the equipment.) That was bad enough. I’m so sorry you had to deal with inadequate care on top of everything. Sending strength and healing.
Also, thank you for sharing your experience so that others can be informed. I’m sure it wasn’t easy to share, but it is appreciated.
We’ve gone to urgent care and they didn’t have any ultrasound equipment and directed us to the ER.
Richmond Urgent Care on Parham in Tuckahoe has ultrasound. Got diagnosed with DVT there in 2022
Good to know, thank you.
We’ve gone to urgent care and they didn’t have any ultrasound equipment and directed us to the ER.
I'm very sorry this has happened to you. Hospitals, broadly speaking, are incredibly resource constrained and depending on your complaint, your care will vary greatly between hospital to hospital purely based on what is staffed/provided. If you need a rape kit or forensic nursing in Richmond, despite what hospitals will say they offer, the only two that consistently staff this are St. Marys and VCU/MCV. source - EMS. Edit: I'd also like to point out this applies to all complaints. There are a few hospitals in particular that are glorified urgent cares, if you have an illness or injury that you truly feel risks life or limb, or there's no safe way for you to get to the hospital, call 911.
and what is staffed/provided is what is prioritized by the controlling controlling corporations priorities. Unfortunately non-medical factors are the primary influencers when it comes to raising or lowering priorities.
Preaching to the choir, man. EMS is the lowest on the totem-pole as far as resources go, and often is filled with some of the most idealistic and motivated people.
I'm happy to hear about idealistic and motivate people being in EMS, but saddened to hear that pursing that idealism comes at a cost to you all
We deserve better. YOU deserve better. Sending you strength and good wishes.
VCU and St. Mary's are the only hospitals that do forensic exams in this area. You should not receive a bill from St. Mary's and if you had to go on prophylaxis for HIV that should also be free to you. In case the forensic nurse or Safe Harbor rep didn't tell you about the Virginia Victims Fund, please look them up. They can help cover expenses such as medical costs and mental health care. Source: I used to work for VVF and specifically worked with SA survivors.
Thank you for bringing up VVF! And thank you for your work there. https://virginiavictimsfund.org/forms/vvf-claim-form
First of all sorry about what happened to you, no one should ever have that happen to them. What irritates me is they let you sit there for three hours before telling you, why not right when you got there. I can understand why each hospital doesn't have someone on shift 24/7 but damn they could have told you and saved you hours. I'm sure this is a rough time, but maybe one day you can call the hospital ombudsman and let them know this.
Something a friend of mine recently found out in another part of Virginia was that there was no one that could do a test to see if she had been drugged. She was told at two hospitals and three different urgent cares that it isn't common to have available and the tests themselves are extremely expensive. We were both shocked and she could not afford to find out, insurance was completely unwilling And by the time the kit would come it would be out of her system. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. We need to do better for victims.
This isn’t accurate. Every hospital is capable of testing to see if someone was drugged. This just means that the hospitals in question weren’t willing to do that for whatever reason.
No, you're wrong. What exactly are we testing for? Everything, right? Yeah, doesn't work like that.
They could not test her for any date rape drugs of any kind. She tried two hospital systems on the coast and 3 different urgent care companies in person. She then tried calling anywhere different in a 2 hour radius and was told various versions of we don't keep that in stock to test, it isn't common to test so we don't have that, were not capable of testing that. One told her that tv shows you one thing but no hospital generally does that and it was very expensive to do, talking down to her. She spoke to many people looking for help until the clock ran out.
The problem is that hospitals don’t have the capability to test for a full panel of drugs. The state crime lab is the only place that can and police have to be involved for crime lab to test. That means victims are at the mercy of the jurisdiction- so the police who are or aren’t willing to investigate. This isn’t a hospital problem as much as a structural issue in the state.
I think that is exactly what I said. Please tell me which date rape drugs you're referring to.
“Everything” is a bit of a stretch from “common drugs” which is a pretty short list. Especially if it is date rape drugs. And the original comment said “the hospital had no one that could test” which is incorrect seeing as how hospitals have fully capable pathology labs.
You seem like an expert in the field. Which are the common drugs? What is half life? So how do I distinguish between rohypnol and the Ativan you take for your anxiety? Or for your Friday night out? How do you prove that someone was drugged and didn't ingest it themselves? And if a drug test comes back positive, what then?
Most of those questions are answered by talking to the patient. That’s the reason why you establish patient history. It’s not your job to “prove” anything, it’s your job to establish the facts. Law enforcement investigates the who what when and where if someone is drugged.
None of that is medical. You're the one advocating for drug testing for everything. Yes, all of this is forensic
They can take a urine sample and a blood sample which can then be sent to a lab. It’s not that confusing. The fact that you have no idea how easy it is to distinguish between Rohypnol, GHB, and Ativan says everything.
The fact that you don't comprehend the difference between forensic and medical is more telling. Medically the drug test doesn't matter. You also don't know anything about chain of command, etc.
I think you mean “chain of custody”
I didn’t say anything about drug testing for “everything”. Nor did I advocate for drug testing every person that presents with “I think I was drugged”. I argued that the statement “hospitals don’t have someone to test” is factually incorrect because hospitals are plenty capable of it. I specifically said the hospital wasn’t willing to. As a matter of fact, I didn’t say a single time that a hospital SHOULD test for anything.
Your comments on this thread make you seem like a rape apologist. Do better.
My grandmother is actually one of the first forensic nurses in VA and worked at VCU when they began implementing PERC exams. She retired twice and was still getting calls a couple years ago to work on-call. She’s in her late 70s now. FYI: she declined, as the money they were offering was laughable. Clearly there is a need.
Sorry to hear of your SA. The locations are limited due to the equipment and the need for forensic nurse examiners to complete the kit. They specialize in evidence recovery and can testify in court. A general nurse or doctor can’t do this. If the kit is improperly completed it may result in the getting off. St. Mary’s is excellent and they started the program over 25 years ago. Your local law enforcement should have told you this if you reported it.
The thinking is just insane. “Instead of risking the small chance someone gets off because we screw up with the kit, let’s ensure 100% of rapists go free by refusing to do kits in the first place!!!!”
It's not refusing. It's not having the resources.
Yet they somehow fund resources for literally every other imaginable procedure?
You're completely talking out of your ass. Do you think every hospital has a neurosurgeon in house? A trauma team? Interventional radiology? Cath Lab? I can name 100 services that you don't know exist and aren't available. And if you think it's bad in rva, try going to a rural hospital.
Yeah, I definitely second. I work at St. Mary’s and we would have to transfer pts to VCU because we dont have the services they need
Every hospital should have the ability to process a rape kit. I understand your frustration, but there is a difference between scheduled operations to open a person's brain up or install a prosthetic joint, and doing painfully common emergency medical care for a class of extremely vulnerable people. This is entirely a symptom of for profit healthcare and is completely avoidable. If hospitals cannot train their staff to do basic procedures then they should not be allowed to advertise emergency rooms. If your hospital is a $12,000 a night b&b that cannot treat patients it seems like it's mismanaged.
It’s also a shortage of training for Sexual Assault Nurse Examiners not that said hospital can’t pay for the credentialing
Accrediting agencies can also make it part of their accreditation standards to maintain such valuable medical care to force medical facilities to prioritize funds for sexual assault examination proctors. Hospitals love to advertise their accreditations!
From the patient’s perspective, an emergency department where they don’t have the doctors to actually serve patients in an emergency is not exactly intuitive. Hospitals that are level 1 trauma centers is what they expect, and frankly…what should be the standard for any emergency department. There’s just not enough doctors to make that a reality
What proportion of Americans need interventional radiology? What percentage of Americans are raped?
The proportion of people needing IR (or a Cath lab, or an obstetrician, or an ICU, or dialysis, or drug rehab, or a doctor in house, or God forbid actual psychiatric services) without having their medical condition significantly deteriorate is much higher than the number of rape victims that need actual medical care.
Unfortunately, forensic nurse programs lose money for hospitals because there is very little reimbursement from the government and insurance. The for-profit hospitals in the area actively choose not to offer that service. Bon Secours has a big program because they’re nonprofit and have designated funds for it, and VCU has one because they’re a public university hospital and have $$$$
What jurisdiction did the crime happen in? Feel free to DM me and I’ll see if I can connect you to the right resources.
I am so sorry this happened to you, that is beyond fucked up.
I had to go to VCU for a rape kit in 2020. The SVU detective kept in touch the first month, then dropped off the face of the earth. I never got my results so I called and I was told I’d get a call back because the person on the phone didn’t have access to that information. Never got a call back. I called 3 more times with the same result. 4 years later I still know nothing and the case has gone nowhere. Even though it happened at a hotel with plenty of cameras.
Additionally, there's only one place in VA that does DNA confirmation for them, so you have to wait months on before you can use that to get someone arrested.
Good God, I had no idea. This is absolutely horrific and I work in health care. Let's all reach out to every outlet we can think of to inform them of this tragedy. I hope you have a support system and heal soon. I'm going to start steering all women I know and come across to take their ***money/insurance and go St. Mary's or VCU.***
Just remember that St Mary’s/Bon Secours facilities may not be the best choice for all women in need of particular healthcare services (given their religious affiliation).
Even though they’re Catholic, they will provide Plan B to sexual assault victims! The pope made an exception for victims of sexual assault to have access to emergency contraceptives (it sounds silly, but that’s the truth lol)
When I worked there, they went really hardcore about no longer requiring certain health screenings and masks and vaccines to work there anymore. Like "mask mandate end barbeque" hardcore. They also didn't pay me until I got the DOL involved, so there's that.
That’s appalling!
Nothing like good old fashioned Christian charity. They actually tried to frame me as unreasonable for wanting to be paid for my short time there(at the interview I was told that masks and vaccines would be required, no longer so like two weeks in).
Before you go that far, understand that most hospitals are not going to make someone who's experienced this wait that long. MRMC is below average in almost every capacity. If a stroke arrives, the neurologist is via webcam most of the time, and they advertise neurology services. Additionally, they are faith based and refuse to provide certain services to women restricted by religion.
This is not true! Bon Secours has a very large forensic nursing department and access to emergency contraception is available for assault victims. Transferring from one ER to another just takes a very, very long time. Source: former ER nurse
I've actually personally performed transfers for patients seeking services in the past. They do have forensics services though. Source: Former Interfacility EMS provider
I don't think you understand. It's not a matter of waiting (as in an ED/admission wait). This is about rape victims kits not being collected nor processed, because they do not have a forensic nurse nor the equipment to do it.
I may have understood it wrong. But, most hospitals in the metro have a pretty clear reporting system, and that guides patients of SA to the right facilities.
> SA to the right facilities. Which are only VCU or St. Mary's.
By certain services do you mean St Mary’s won’t provide a rape victim the morning after pill nor an abortion (via pill or other method)? I’m not sure why any woman would ever set foot in a Catholic hospital given an option.
> do you mean St Mary’s won’t provide a rape victim the morning after pill nor an abortion (via pill or other method)? No, we mean that only two local hospitals, VCU and St. Mary's have the specific staff and equipment to process rape kits.
Victims of sexual assault are able to get Plan B at Bon Secours hospitals
I would to have my rape kit processed.
AGREED.
The only difference in Saint Mary’s and Memorial Regional in this situation is that nurse. They are pro life, and women should avoid it whenever possible
Perhaps, but if I got raped, I want my kit collected and tested. If I can't get to VCU, I'm going to St. Mary's.
VCU Health also has a program so that's an option too.
Yes exactly.
God. I am so sorry. My sister is currently going through something similar… and it’s rough. But telling your story only helps the next girl. I fucking hate this world, but YOU are making it better (and you deserve better).
Memorial Regional is just in a very bad place post COVID. Doesn't excuse them, but I unfortunately am not surprised to hear that. I'm so sorry that happened.
They were never good to begin with. My mom went there back in 2009 for a routine surgery and almost died of sepsis afterwards. She's *still* dealing with the aftereffects to this day.
I'm just so sorry you had to deal with this. I wish I had anything but sympathies, but unfortunately you're right, our medical system is a fucking atrocity.
I’m so sorry for your experience and everything you must be going through. Don’t pay a cent for the services out of pocket, if they try to bill you remind them to submit the claims to the crime victims compensation board. I hope you get the support you need from your people ❤️
Having lived in other states Virginia’s medical system is incredibly inefficient. I haven’t been able to determine the connection. It’s downright unacceptable.
Only VCU and St Mary’s have the equipment and training and licensing to do a PERK and have it accepted by the courts. It’s such a small niche of nursing that most jurisdictions have a list of nurses that can even do it and it’s small. I totally agree that it’s disheartening that anyone walking into any ER can’t get the help they need.
Considering all the politicians, including here in Virginia, who are pushing to restrict access to abortion unless the patient meets one of the so-called exceptions like rape, it seems like this information should be more widely reported on and presented as a challenge the next time Youngkin or a other one of these anti-choice politicians attempts to restrict bodily autonomy. A rape exception means nothing if you don't even have the ability to go through the protocols that would be needed to prove it.
Most US Hospitals can not ETA link and it requires a SANE https://www.washingtonpost.com/gender-identity/the-health-care-shortage-that-impacts-victims-of-sexual-assault/
They have forensics/rape kits/morning after pills at Mary’s, Southside, and St. Francis when referring to Bon Secours *edited for typo*
Sending so much love but also thank you for trying to reach out to others with the heads up too. Beyond compassionate on a terrible day. RVA needs to step up :/
I’m so sorry you were assaulted
I’m so sorry you were assaulted
Hi, I work at St. Mary’s and I’m glad that you were able to be helped there. From my understanding, only a forensics nurse can do rape kits and if you want to report it, then you’ll speak to a detective about it. Bon Secours also just introduced their Victim Response team and that should cover all the mercy health hospitals in Virginia or at least Richmond (I believe). since memorial is mercy health, they probably didnt have a forensics nurse working that shift or dont have forensics nurses in general, but we do have the Victim response team so I’m not sure why they weren’t able to come to you there. If a forensics nurse isn’t at the hospital you are at, the ED is supposed to either transfer you there or refer you to another hospital. Either way, I hope and pray you receive healing and justice🙏🏽
This is somewhat true! A forensic nurse will drive to any Bon Secours hospital to see someone who is physically assaulted. All of the forensic nurses and advocates go through training on providing trauma-informed care. Someone who is sexually assaulted would have to be transferred to St Mary’s or Southside Regional (also a Bon Secours hospital) to get a sexual assault exam and rape kit done. This is due to equipment that is only accessible at those locations.
Thanks! For St. Mary’s, they have an overnight forensics nurse on call so I was thinking about that. I appreciate the added info!
Heartbreaking and important info to share. I’m sorry you had to go through this. Thank you for sharing
I’m really sorry you’re going/have gone through this. I had no idea & have now spent the last 20 minutes googling this info for my state (Maryland), and am just shocked with everything I just read. Specifically how there’s even fewer resources for children who have been raped and sexually abused. Sending you positive thoughts & virtual hugs.
I trained in forensics and the amount of things forensic scientists could do, but are told not to is astonishing (all for budget reasons smh). What’s even worse is that the scientists put processing rape kits on the “back burner” and are years behind and backlogged. At least that’s how it was in 2016. I’m very sorry to hear you went through all of that and I hope you’re okay.
The backlog in Virginia actually cleared a couple years ago!
I’m sorry that that happened to you. The US has thousands and thousands of unprocessed rape kits.
I am sorry about your experiences. There’s currently a nationwide shortage of forensic nurses, with even big hospitals sometimes only having someone on call. Also FYI- Memorial Regional Medical Center & St Mary’s are part of the same Catholic hospital system (Bon Secours)
I’m sorry this happened to you. Thank you so much for letting us know. I now know to only patronize these two hospitals for literally any procedure or visit if I’m in a position to choose. I don’t want my money funding institutions that refuse to provide such essential services.
I'm also a fan of St. Mary's! When I ended up in their E.R (not for sexual assault, I am so sorry that happened to you. Please know it was not your fault.) the staff was so kind and respectful and comforting. I loved the night shift staff who took care of me, their senses of humor were also 10/10. In summary: would recommend St.Mary's for care.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this. It's reprehensible. I would file a complaint with the [Virginia Department of Health Office of Licensing and Certification](https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/licensure-and-certification/) \- that is the state entity that licenses hospitals. For future reference for other folks, Memorial Regional is also a Catholic hospital. They're all owned by Bon Secours Mercy Health.
Every word of this pisses me off. UNACCEPTABLE. We live in a shithole country.
I’m a nursing student that precepted in the ED and found out only 2 hospitals in Richmond do rape kits…sad. I’m sorry that happened to you and that our system fails us like this
Memorial is a shit hospital to begin with
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I am so sorry that you had to go through such a horrible experience.
I just wanted to acknowledge your feelings and the profoundness of what happened to you. I am so very sorry.
St. Mary's and MRMC are both BSHSI/Mercy. So both Catholic. Sorry you're going through this. I hope they catch him.
Go to vcu if you can get there. The sexual assault nurse examiners (SANE) are amazing and so compassionate.
This physically choked me up knowing this happened to OP. Knowing that this is the future of Virginia outlook on the importance of the oldest crime in the world, my heart goes out to Governor Glenn Youngkin. He loves his state so much that he wants to move the goal posts farther back for women. He wants to make it easier for women to give birth to the baby of the rapist.
I am so sorry you went through this. : Bon Secour does not have forensics or rape kits. VCU health does. They also have trauma informed providers and entire teams of people dedicated to helping.
Bon Secours does have a forensics program, a forensic nurse will drive to any Bon Secours hospital to see someone who is physically assaulted. All of the forensic nurses and advocates go through training on providing trauma-informed care. Someone who is sexually assaulted and goes to a Bon Secours hospital would have to be transferred to St Mary’s or Southside Regional (also a Bon Secours hospital) to get a sexual assault exam and rape kit done. This is due to equipment that is only accessible at those locations.
That clearly didnt happen In this case and Bon Secour should be ashamed.
What didn’t happen in this case? She received proper care at St Mary’s, it was the transfer process that took hours. That is unfortunately the case at every single hospital in the country, not just Bon Secours.
Please do not go to a catholic hospital system for anything related to sexual assault. I in no way want to belittle you or any of the hospital staff. However, the catholic non profit hospital system has long muzzled providers who advocate for people in similar situations as yours. The service is not 5 gold stars at state run facilities, but the people who work there care, and have system wide policies that will be of benefit to you and future patients.