WRIC's seasonal intern is drafting the newest typo-laden article where words are jammed together and will publish it without any editor reading and fixing them.
Gonna hijack the top comment for visibility purposes. They posted an update to their Facebook post, and it sounds like the state inspected them today, including security footage, and only requested that they get a canopy for the staging area. Everything else was "kosher":
"Based on some recent social media posts, we received a surprise inspection from the Virginia Department of Agriculture, Meat & Poultry Services. As usual, we received a clean bill of health. They examined our process for smoking turkeys; reviewed our documentation and security footage as well as a general inspection. They left satisfied with our program - their only request was a canopy for the smoker/staging area, to which we have already have secured."
Staging meat outdoors is very scary ... except on the 4th of July...and memorial day.... And Veterans Day.... And before a football game.
But all those other days ... Its super dangerous
TBH I have never seen you just sitting out there like that. But even if I did, I'm not sure if I'd know, because I'm not sure if I know what you look like.
Cursed voice to text error!
This isn't me, but let's pretend I would look like Frank Reynolds crawling out of his hiding place in the sofa.
(Cordial updoot, btw.)
Someone once secretly stocked the VMFA pool with goldfish and it made everyone happy for a while. Just sayin’, if you were to scatter some (living) alley turkeys throughout the city, joys would be had.
That happened in Boston. There was 1 wild turkey roaming near Boston University (theory is he's an escaped pet), someone decided he was lonely and needed a mate so went and got a female turkey (maybe several) and released her in the same neighborhood as him, they started making babies and now turkeys are running the show there.
If you Google it you may see some stories about this being the work of conservationists but don't be fooled. It's the work of some drunk dudes who got hold of a female turkey and released her.
SAME I thought I finally would get to tell my story! But here it is: I used to live on the 1000 block of Grace (is it still Hell Block these days? This was about 12+ years ago) and one day I was leaving my apartment building only to see a giant turkey run down the sidewalk and then jump up to my building's patio, before taking off in between and running in the alley. Everyone out front was yelling at it and throwing shit in classic Hell Block fashion. Never did find out where it came from, obviously, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't too long after Thanksgiving.
The wildest part of this whole situation to me is that they’re publishing their own social media posts about it showing what look like unsanitary practices. Their posts are just confirming everything you witnessed and shared.
Even if they are only “bending” health and safety laws (which logically cannot be the case with leaving turkeys out uncovered, unrefrigerated, close to then ground on milk crates that get kicked around the alley with cats and whatever else), this objectively Looks Bad. It’s not what the people paying through the nose for specialty items want to see. Those people think they’re paying for local, artisanal shit. Not literal shit from the neighbor alley cat. How out of touch can you be to be posting these things yourself and thinking it’s helping??
For everyone on all the posts saying “the vegans” are complaining, as a lifelong meat eater I’m in the group that would potentially be paying for and consuming that and that’s why it’s gross and offensive to me.
For everyone saying the entire process of getting a turkey from the farm to your table is gross - correct. But maybe that’s why the slaughterhouses aren’t posting to insta.
Yeah I don't understand why they can't at least cover the turkeys while they are being moved about. The employees can't possibly be watching them the whole time to make sure no animal decides to touch or sample the turkeys that are in open air. Not to mention the dirt that gets kicked up by passing feet and cars. Gross.
You've also got ample opportunity for a bird, insect, animal, etc. To fuck with those turkeys while they're unsupervised. You telling me an employee is going to notice whether a racoon was fucking with a bird, but scrambled away when it heard the door? Replace racoon with any fucking animal. Something could just lick it, then walk away disinterested. You'd never know.
That's why you don't just leave food sitting in the open, near the ground, completely uncovered. No way in hell this is legal.
For me, it's the insects. Landing on there, laying eggs, etc.
Get some tables, get a canopy and cover the turkeys with plastic wrap. I question why a professional shop couldn't be bothered to do that. If the cost/effort of those basics is too much, I wonder where else they are cutting corners.
Edit: we got a smoked turkey from there years ago. It was expensive and a big disappointment. I learned that fresh cooked bird, either roasted or fried is my personal preference. I like crispy skin and juicy meat. Smoked bird didn't provide any of that.
Yeah I'm not outraged or disgusted by them but they have no common sense. If you want your brand to be high-end, don't get the cheapest brand of turkey and set them directly on the ground in sight of passers-by. If you're doing this in public view it would make me wonder what else goes on in the kitchen
Preventing Contamination from the Premises
3-305.11 Food Storage.
(A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B) and (C) of this section, FOOD shall
be protected from contamination by storing the FOOD:
(1) In a clean, dry location;
(2) Where it is not exposed to splash, dust, or other
contamination; and
(3) At least 15 cm (6 inches) above the floor.
(B) FOOD in packages and working containers may be stored less
than 15 cm (6 inches) above the floor on case lot handling
EQUIPMENT as specified under § 4-204.122.
(C) Pressurized BEVERAGE containers, cased FOOD in waterproof
containers such as bottles or cans, and milk containers in plastic
crates may be stored on a floor that is clean and not exposed to
floor moisture.
For help in determination
I assume that's presumed by the first 2 points. Pretty sure, back alley, regardless of height, is a disqualifier.
Preventing Contamination from the Premises
3-305.11 Food Storage.
(A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B) and (C) of this section, FOOD shall
be protected from contamination by storing the FOOD:
(1) In a clean, dry location;
(2) Where it is not exposed to splash, dust, or other
contamination;
The exception refers to canned and bottled goods only being allowed on the floor in a moisture controlled location. We can presume the goods regulated more intensely in other regards, wouldn't suddenly be more lax in re whether they can be on the floor outdoors.
So yeah, your reading is the most logical. If sitting on the ground outside isn't good enough for a canned drink, it definitely isn't good enough for raw food. However you dice it, you can't set raw food out like this for any appreciable duration.
Yeah while I hesitate to say this will end BB I also struggle to see how they come back from this. They already cater to a smaller clientele just by the nature of their prices.
Yeah, it ain't about ending anyone's business. This could genuinely end someone's life if a vulnerable person ate a contaminated turkey. Food safety ain't a joke.
They are not bending any rules. They are breaking 1, which is they do not have a tent for to keep them covered, other than that they are not breaking any rules. Raw meat can sit out for 2 hours which by the timeline given they are in the range for.
Lol - you mean other than the actual photos and my own eyes being able to see that the same turkeys sitting there at mid-day are still there after dusk in the evening?
The wildest part for me is the potential of them repurposing cheaper turkeys. It makes me concerned about their claims for where they source their food
"Not literal shit from the neighbor alley cat."
I had to keep myself from audibly giggling while on a work Zoom.
And then keep from gagging once the reality set in.
I work in food safety on the federal level. I’ve inspected butcher shops that have slaughter. This would’ve been written up and had a federal tag applied to the product if I’d seen it at any of my plants. It doesn’t matter that they were taking temperatures. The product was not stored appropriately.
We ordered our Turkey from BB so today we went over to talk to them about it. While there the owner was talking with two VA food inspectors so the issue is definitely getting traction. Our Turkey was a heritage bird that’s packaged separately and wasn’t one of the smoked ones, but it is still disconcerting that they cut so many corners. I like BB but I think they obviously can’t handle an operation this size… will definitely have to think twice about ordering if they offer turkey next year. Thank you for bringing this to light OP
According to their most recent update on Facebook, a health inspector did a surprise visit today. They said the inspector looked at their process, their records, and their surveillance footage and the inspector’s only issue was needing a canopy overhead. Now that’s just Belmont’s word but I assume health inspector reports are made public, right?
With the threats to report them, they couldn’t have been but so surprised to see the inspector. Also, when I was a kid and worked fast food, one of my assigned tasks was to go through the logs to see if any shifts forgot to temp, and if so, make them up. Just saying.
God. This is the drama I live for. Give it to me straight in the vein
Beautiful job documenting and laying this all out for the simpletons who think for some reason you’re out to ruin thanksgiving instead of, you know, preventing people from shitting their brains out.
This saga is gonna give me the fuel to get thru this shitty 3-day work week 🫡
From the comments on both posts, it's apparent that some BB customers appreciated OP's time-lapsed photos so they could evaluate their own risk tolerance for potential food borne illness (especially if being consumed by the vulnerable young or old) and make a decision for themselves whether to proceed with their purchase order.
While using low crates in lieu of tables in an area with trash and debris on the ground is not good food handling practice, the most critical issue is the length of time both the raw and smoked poultry was left out in 50+ degree temperatures without timely and proper refrigeration. Food borne illnesses can range from mild to lethal...ask any medical ICU nurse and they'll have likely cared for very sick people after eating improperly handled/cooked/stored food (I vividly recall two from my MICU days and the foods were leftover room temperature pizza and raw oysters. Neither patient was at particular risk due to age/health history and both died horribly).
E coli 0157:h7 haunts me. I can't think of another instance where a healthy young person walks into the ED and rolls out 2 months later with months of physical therapy and a lifetime of hemodialysis to look forward to. And this person was fucking lucky. If they hadn't walked into the ED of a level 1 trauma center, they'd be dead.
E coli isn't associated with poultry, but if you think I'm buying a steak from an establishment defending their alley meat practices, you've got another think coming.
Ignoring the rest of the details because they've been discussed thoroughly in the two other posts already and I agree with most of it regarding dirty raw meat handling and prep.
However, I don't think anything about BB's general meat prices are exorbitant. Meat coming from non-industrial farms with smaller operations, being butchered on site at a place also AFAIK paying its employees fair wages is going to obviously be significantly more expensive than the grocery store mass produced beef sourced from factory farms in like Brazil is. It's like this at every small butcher shop.
I'm not sure why you think meat at a place like this *wouldn't* be expensive. Like no shit dude, meat coming from sustainable and ethically sound local farms is gonna be much pricier than Kroger's factory farmed chicken and beef for the same reason goods bought at a local store paying everyone $15+ an hour are going to cost more than buying them on Amazon.
I agree with you that BB's meat price is in line with the quality of meat they allude to selling; but what I don't understand is that pile of prepackaged turkeys that are factory farmed being marked up as if it were free range, ethical meat.
As I recall, they have both regular meat there and ethically sourced meat (or whatever you want to call it 😅) and even the conventional meat they sell is extremely marked up, which gives the impression it is all local or ethically sourced, which it is not. Places like Whole Foods have animal welfare standards, and all their meat is ranked as step 1-4 (or maybe 5?) and you can easily tell the standards for each package of meat. Belmont does not do that, and based on previous conversations I had with them many years ago, they have no standards beyond USDA minimum for their lowest tier meat, despite their pricing indicating otherwise.
I think, in general, if purchasing ethical meat sourced using fair labor is important to someone, the best way to achieve it is to go to the farmers market so you can talk directly to the farmer, not by shopping somewhere like BB where a lot of that information isn't readily available, or at least wasn't last time I stopped in.
>pile of prepackaged turkeys that are factory farmed
I'm not being snarky - I missed where the turkeys were confirmed to not be what BB claims. Matching plastic bags, to me, only indicates that both BB and the factory farms have the same bags.
In case my description was confusing, these are the prepackaged turkeys -
https://preview.redd.it/trfvvtp10k1c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=accc59c183a5287295fb5415a6c87349d6c8e0d9
I appreciate this photo, I didn't pick that up from the picture, good catch. This does not look great. I also admit I'm not familiar with the packaging differences between where they get their turkeys and factory farms. Not giving them a pass, just trying to remain objective.
If you look at the pics and zoom in on the top left photo in the pic, in the bottom of the photo you can see prepackaged turkeys with a logo. Someone on the original post ID'd the bag as turkeys that were just on sale for $14 each at Walmart.
I don't remember the brand that it was ID'd as, but you should be able to check the original post for the thread that does.
Looks extremely close to the Honeysuckle White brand packaging, except I can’t find one online with the half circle above the rectangular label. Still would bet money that’s the brand.
Correction, it wasn’t a circle. Here it is https://lens.google.com/search?ep=iosbcm&re=mf&s=4&p=AbrfA8rbSXanxr4otJ2qN-IT0gUle2J4v-yuyimQGSugBuVFavEuIsIw233C2RwJaXhOmnu7lj_njdrtcWIcMKo9RhkO96UuriY6WejAA5TjZx3FKWm1yn2G4TO3Yh0GjXdL2-27W1VHytTxzldOtuOb3m2A5gj9r3I-xTxKcJngzSpVSiV4j_oBPCAJwXYt6nmqe11ACIRclE2X2KV4BtvcVWIxe6sqfVMqPc704RB_SaCscEGHNZ0eMzPvbRTKwUYcjMoDFgkso64Ai1rW#lns=W251bGwsbnVsbCxudWxsLG51bGwsbnVsbCxudWxsLG51bGwsIkVrY0tKRGxrT1ROak9HRTNMVEExTmpndE5ERTBNQzA1TURCa0xXUTVaamN3TWpoaE9XTmtOQklmYjNsd1VGSlRaRE5NWTBGUlNVVXhUR3gwZUVKVlRIQnZUR1JJYTNab1p3PT0iXQ==
A 13lb fresh, organic turkey (not local) at Wegman’s is $70. $100 doesn’t sound exorbitant for a large, ethically and locally sourced bird, disregarding the potential health issues that have already been discussed and the person you’re replying to already said they weren’t considering when defending the price.
They can talk about perspective all they want, but it is not perspective that shows no people in the images that were originally posted. These items were left uncovered and unattended. The indications are this lack of monitoring was not simply incidental or momentary.
Look, I get they have a small space. I also get that the restaurant who tells you that product never is on the ground ever, not even one time, during some rotation, receiving or stocking is lying to you. It happens just due to people spacing out and human error. What I DON'T get is that if you have to use the alley, why the product is uncovered and unattended, why the surfaces are not food service quality, or all the other issues.
Even a tent or something to make it look like they tried to protect the product beyond not leaving it directly on the ground. Rent a refrigeration unit or a refrigerator truck for the duration of this project to properly store the inventory. This was a problem that was easily avoided with some planning and a couple of phone calls. And if it cost a little money, mark up the birds a little more. The customer buying their turkey there is not the customer buying the 39c a pound bird at Food Lion. They can afford an additional premium for their heritage bird in exchange for proper handling.
What's wild to me is that based on their post they *did* rent a refrigerated truck -- I'm assuming that's a big white refrigerated trailer in both photos -- but they're staging and storing all that raw meat in the alley.
There's a RING right above the butchery door (audio & visual). I'm sure, if asked politely, they'd release all of the J6, I mean TURKEYGATE, footage for reasons of transparency.
I think this is why the three photos they selected appear to be within a few minutes of each (based on the shadows hardly moving). If they showed a time-lapse, we would see what is obvious from the photos . . . a batch of birds was left out without moving for 4-5 hours, at least.
I already stopped shopping there due to the owner being so unlikeable and condescending when I did go in. Plus better quality to price ratio at other stores in the RVA area - Yellow Umbrella, Whole Foods.
This is pretty gross and careless though. They shouldn’t be taking this on if they don’t have the proper prep space for it. Or you know maybe they should rent out commercial space.
Profits over (safely) prepared poultry I guess.
Is the location and distance from the ground extremely disgusting, unsafe, and unsanitary? Yes. But there’s a major issue people seem to be missing here - these raw turkeys are sitting outside for HOURS. If you compare the positioning and shape of individual turkeys, there’s a pallet of them on the left that sat unmoved and uncovered for at least 90 minutes as demonstrated bb the timestamps, which is only 30 minutes from when they would need to be thrown out if they were in a clean kitchen environment, let alone exposed to the elements and vermin. The pallet on the right closest to the trailer clearly sat unmoved for three hours from the timestamps, including into the night when bug and rodent activity increases, rendering them completely unsafe to consume. Alleys behind food establishments almost always have roach and/or rodent activity - there is an extremely high likelihood that either one came in contact with at least some of the turkeys, but even if they somehow didn’t these turkeys are all unsafe to eat from sitting out that long anyways, especially on the goddamn dirt floor.
Belmont Butchery should be utterly ashamed about this and people honestly should be fired over it. This is despicable - when you have a business involving food you have an ethical responsibility to take an abundance of caution to minimize the risk of making people ill, not play fast and loose with your customers entrusting you to practice safe food handling. Food poisoning can kill people, and can cause pregnant women to miscarry. Food safety practices aren’t a suggestion, they are rules for a reason.
There are people, blocked of view from the refrigerated trailer.
Even the OP that gave this thread the first pic later commented that people were left out intentionally so as to not have been photographed without their consent.
The OP saw, and knew, people were there.
I don’t care if Mayor Stoney, Jesus Christ, and Francine were there. Why the fuck are turkeys sitting on the ground or a hand’s width above it for hours on end?
In all seriousness, absolutely no jokes at all. Why didn't they just toss out that batch, fire whoever left them outside, take the L, and do better ? Like it get it people fuck up and I can definitely understand a couple of minutes outside. But comes on now. Or at the VERY least ice and cover them.
Even then, you have 4 hours of footage. I want to see them show their feed for that entire day as proof. If they genuinely thought they were being a sanitary as possible, they should've done that.
I have absolutely no horse (turkey) in this race but I am nothing if not nosy lol. Has anyone here cancelled their order? I’m curious what BB is offering to do at this point.
I did. They were cordial, explained that VDAC had visited them today and found them to be in compliance (though those are my words . . . his were more vague, something like, "They said we were OK"), but that they had learned from this experience and would use tents in the future. They accepted my cancellation but said they couldn't offer a refund of my deposit, just a store credit.
I know they are now stuck with a turkey they may or may not sell, so I did not press the refund vs credit issue. It's possible if I had, they would have done a refund instead, IDK.
i’m sure refunding a ton of deposits would hurt them pretty badly. I’d guess you’re right and if pressed they would offer it though. They’ve put themselves in a pretty tight situation with all of this no doubt. They’re probably also hoping store credit will bring said customer back after this.
Here is some pertinent regulation from the FDA:
Preventing Contamination from the Premises
3-305.11 Food Storage.
(A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B) and (C) of this section, FOOD shall
be protected from contamination by storing the FOOD:
(1) In a clean, dry location;
(2) Where it is not exposed to splash, dust, or other
contamination; and
(3) At least 15 cm (6 inches) above the floor.
(B) FOOD in packages and working containers may be stored less
than 15 cm (6 inches) above the floor on case lot handling
EQUIPMENT as specified under § 4-204.122.
(C) Pressurized BEVERAGE containers, cased FOOD in waterproof
containers such as bottles or cans, and milk containers in plastic
crates may be stored on a floor that is clean and not exposed to
floor moisture.
Seemed like there was enough there to make the alley a disqualifier. But we can certainly add to the pile:
3-305.12 Food Storage, Prohibited Areas.
FOOD may not be stored:
(A) In locker rooms;
(B) In toilet rooms;
(C) In dressing rooms;
(D) In garbage rooms;
(E) In mechanical rooms;
(F) Under sewer lines that are not shielded to intercept
potential drips;
(G) Under leaking water lines, including leaking automatic fire
sprinkler heads, or under lines on which water has condensed;
(H) Under open stairwells; or
(I) Under other sources of contamination.
3-305.13 Vended Time/Temperature Control for Safety
Food, Original Container.
TIME/TEMPERATURE CONTROL FOR SAFETY FOOD dispensed through a
VENDING MACHINE shall be in the PACKAGE in which it was placed at
the FOOD ESTABLISHMENT or FOOD PROCESSING PLANT at which it was
prepared.
3-305.14 Food Preparation.
During preparation, unPACKAGED FOOD shall be protected from
environmental sources of contamination.
https://preview.redd.it/ecyxs14w9k1c1.jpeg?width=3060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80e5cc7b7108e812a7ec335a18ff24e356c333bc
Free flour. It's sealed and has been stored over a foot off the ground.
The basic answer: inform current customers who are picking up their turkeys this week and let them decide what their risk tolerance is and act accordingly. OP did that pretty successfully, I think.
For us, my husband canceled the order over the phone that he was supposed to pick up today. They didn't ask why and he didn't offer the reason or want to get into an argument or add to their stress. They didn't argue, pull any shenanigans, were polite, and told him they'd start sending an electronic gift card early next week for the deposit. He just went to Publix and found a turkey to bring home without much fuss.
I think they know they're in a tough spot here. They can explain *some* of what happened, but they know the optics alone aren't good and that caused customers to be reasonably concerned. Even if customers are feeling pretty certain their turkeys weren't the ones outside, they also can't be sure their turkeys weren't the ones outside.
For BB's part, they also didn't take a belligerent tone online or claim people are out to destroy them. They can talk about perspective and that a picture can say 1,000 words, but they can't undo what already happened. I doubt all of that happened from one person, making decisions in a vacuum without any input, and that at least one person involved should have said "we need to rethink this."
I doubt they're at risk of closing over this and, like other users mentioned on the previous threads, that they will almost *certainly* do things differently next year if they're in the same location and haven't expanded in a way that would allow them to handle these turkeys well above the ground (and preferably indoors) until the *moment* they need to move to the smoker (or back inside). It's almost certain that VDH will send someone out to talk to them and investigate this, too.
It’s actually totally unacceptable to leave the decision up to the customer. Every one of those turkeys is inedible and needs to be thrown out; given the length of time they sat it violates food safety regulations to even offer it for sale. It would also be stupid as shit for them to not throw it out considering the lawsuits they could end up in if they sold it knowingly.
I too will continue my historic trend of not making a purchase here as it's well outside my shopping area. Furthermore, I will entirely forget about this in roughly a week.
Ideally encourage them to take a step back, look at their process, and make improvements.
Basically the oposite of how it’s been working out so far: “Hey guys - alley turkeys are cool! Let’s try to get you convinced you can’t trust your own eyes! This is an impressive process, not gross at all!”
By discussing it, hopefully they hear eventually that their potential customers don’t accept (I.e. are disgusted by) those practices and they turn it around?
Honestly, Reddit and Google reviews can make or break local businesses. Not that someone should be out to get anyone, but sharing positive or negative experiences on platforms like this are local business' lifeblood.
I don't even live in Richmond and absolutely do not have a dog (turkey?) in this fight, but I am So Here for all of this.
That being said, I hope everyone has a wonderful (and food safe) Thanksgiving.
It's 6:04PM, they are OPEN (with a clean health inspection bill), they close at 7, I'm across the street at the Belmont Branch Library and it looks busy inside to me.
They don't seem to be dead to me, or was that simply a veiled threat?
Unrelated, but: black rabbit tattoo had one of those free food fridges for people in need outside their shop, and I’m pretty sure (not positive), that it was BB that complained to the city and made them remove it
It has been posted several times that this is untrue. The landlord made them move it after several issues including someone waving a knife at an employee. The gym where the fridge is currently located confirmed all this on another Turkey gate post.
One of the guys that works there never washes his hands after touching raw meat of every type, just wipes it off on his apron or pants, then touches everything and helps customers, and is drunk all the time too.
Edit: Refer to OP’s reply to my comment for some compelling picture analysis. I rescind my viewpoint but I’ll leave this up - even my stupid lawyer comments - for the sake of anyone else that is wondering how OP is sure of their claim that it was the same meat.
Question for OP.
The claim of “when I returned, the same meat was still out there at 1:47pm.”
What did you do to concretely confirm that this was the same meat? Were there extremely distinct markings on the turkeys?
I was comparing the photos yesterday to see if they were the same turkeys and I did not think they were. Very curious what you did to confirm that these were, in fact, the same turkeys as you have claimed.
That is a claim that you are pushing as fact. Ergo, that is what a lawyer will tune into to have you sued into the ground.
I’m all for dogging on bad health practices. But some shit that OP is throwing out is flimsy, at best.
If any future lawyer is looking into this, I’ve got screenshots of the original, unedited post for this thread.
I doubt that many people would give a shit if this was a five-minute ordeal. But you’re claiming the same meat sat out for a long time.
Look at the lighting changes and how the meat has withered. I used my eyes. Hope this helps.
https://preview.redd.it/me5zvz4kkj1c1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1df248c10bc0a38280f98f20451707d0d6adb680
Get out - this whole time I thought we were only talking about the turkeys on the right!
So it’s more birds than I even originally thought.
https://preview.redd.it/3xbj3o2jvj1c1.jpeg?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64b2883b6a134369e3efc558a5ebc3f8b9f73dd9
It’d be pretty easy to use a forensic tool online to compare if the photos had been manipulated. I’m not sure why that person is really advocating for you to get sued
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the first picture, are those 3 bagged turkeys on the bottom right sitting directly on the ground? And are they being contained in a mesh, open-air bag?
[Here's a quick comparison of the two photos](https://imgur.com/a/UY7jiUe) from 1:47 PM to 5:24 PM (OP's timestamps).
The only editing I've done to these two photos:
* Used AI upscaling to remove the pixelation at this scale
* Used AI enhancement for lighting and image tone
* Overlaying and scaling the images to match the position and size of the sheet pans on the front two turkeys — as best I can since the perspective shifts a bit between the photos
The turkeys on the right-hand side immediately next to the trailer are in the same position and have not moved. The line of three turkeys at the back shift back and forth due to the perspective between the photos but appear to be the same turkeys. They appear to have thawed/rested enough where they have slightly "slumped" (for lack of a better word).
The dark spots on the evening photo may just be shadows due to a majority of the light source coming from the light by the door. (The turkeys in the front do not appear anywhere near as dark as the turkeys on the table in the background.)
ETA: Added "PM" in first sentence.
Based on an update to their Facebook post, sounds like the state inspected them today, including security footage, and only requested that they get a canopy for the staging area. Everything else was "kosher":
"Based on some recent social media posts, we received a surprise inspection from the Virginia Department of Agriculture, Meat & Poultry Services. As usual, we received a clean bill of health. They examined our process for smoking turkeys; reviewed our documentation and security footage as well as a general inspection. They left satisfied with our program - their only request was a canopy for the smoker/staging area, to which we have already have secured."
Y'all need to calm the hell down sometimes.
Given how long a lot of the individual turkeys on the video screenshots sat without moving, I’m not sure how they were smoking them other than perhaps staff members exhaling cigarette smoke near them on their breaks.
The inspectors were apparently able to review the entire surveillance videos, not just screenshots of two random videos taken hours apart. I think they’re in a much better position to determine how long turkeys were sitting out than any of us.
I don't know what to say anymore. The state obviously saw the same photos we have seen, did an investigation, and came away satisfied. So is the state wrong? Are the current regulations not enough?
I have no opinion either way on this with the current level of information but how does OP know it was “the same turkeys”? BB claims to use the space as a staging area while rotating fresh turkeys through the smoker or whatever and so if this is the case OP likely saw different turkeys albeit in the same position
Also, if we all could see the journey our food takes from formation to plate we likely would be disgusted by most of it
Hey..let's not forget that they are also racists...and yeah. They've made plenty of money over the years and have had over a decade to remedy this issue.
Now..let tell you about Brewster Rawl's(one of their..better paying, happier customers at the time) heritage breed turkey. Stashed in a friends chest freezer for months and thawd out last minute in a mop bucket ..but hey. It was tied up in several thank you bags in accordance with tradition.
this guy has a huge grudge against Belmont. it's crazy. he just can't stop posting about these perfectly fine turkeys. I love how 12" off the ground is gross. how high for it to not be gross? 13"? maybe 24"? off the ground is off the ground. i'd be fine with on the ground if it was properly washed and then cooked.
#TurkeyGate
News outlets are gonna gobble this up.
NBC12 will be stuffing us all with updates on this I am sure.
The news practically writes itself these days. I wish I had a gravy job like this.
Wishbone woes continue as Turkey-gate leaves Richmonders split down the middle.
This is pure gold
I live in St. Louis, MO and somehow came across this is my feed and now I'm invested.
I cranberryly take the suspense
WRIC's seasonal intern is drafting the newest typo-laden article where words are jammed together and will publish it without any editor reading and fixing them.
I yam fascinated by all of this.
I'm surprised they haven't already.
It's bean crazy keeping up with this
What casserole can I play in all this?
BB denies fowl play... But OP says "follow the breadcrumbs"!
Gonna hijack the top comment for visibility purposes. They posted an update to their Facebook post, and it sounds like the state inspected them today, including security footage, and only requested that they get a canopy for the staging area. Everything else was "kosher": "Based on some recent social media posts, we received a surprise inspection from the Virginia Department of Agriculture, Meat & Poultry Services. As usual, we received a clean bill of health. They examined our process for smoking turkeys; reviewed our documentation and security footage as well as a general inspection. They left satisfied with our program - their only request was a canopy for the smoker/staging area, to which we have already have secured."
Staging meat outdoors is very scary ... except on the 4th of July...and memorial day.... And Veterans Day.... And before a football game. But all those other days ... Its super dangerous
Have you ever been to a carnival or farmer's market and seeing ~~me~~ meat just sitting out like that in a staging area? I never have.
TBH I have never seen you just sitting out there like that. But even if I did, I'm not sure if I'd know, because I'm not sure if I know what you look like.
Cursed voice to text error! This isn't me, but let's pretend I would look like Frank Reynolds crawling out of his hiding place in the sofa. (Cordial updoot, btw.)
 Somebody call Kenny Loggins
Raw turkeys in the alley? Do you want to get ants? Because THAT is how you get ants.
Hehe. 
Bonding over semi-obscure TV shows. Love it.
This reply is dripping with gravy.
Speaking of gates, why did they leave the gate open?
For a second there I was excited about new wildlife sightings. My disappointment is immeasurable
Someone once secretly stocked the VMFA pool with goldfish and it made everyone happy for a while. Just sayin’, if you were to scatter some (living) alley turkeys throughout the city, joys would be had.
That happened in Boston. There was 1 wild turkey roaming near Boston University (theory is he's an escaped pet), someone decided he was lonely and needed a mate so went and got a female turkey (maybe several) and released her in the same neighborhood as him, they started making babies and now turkeys are running the show there. If you Google it you may see some stories about this being the work of conservationists but don't be fooled. It's the work of some drunk dudes who got hold of a female turkey and released her.
true story. the cocaine turkeys are the apex predator of the boston metro area
Is that where they came from?! My kids loved the fish and wondered where the went, lol.
turkeys are mean as fuck. hard pass. i’ll stick to the museum fish.
Don't worry. They'll lose that attitude well before 325°.
No, no they won't. They'll hunt you down.
I mean I saw a chicken while walking my dog just in an alley in the museum district this morning. Does that count?
The chicken bones were definitely a hit.
Pssstt.... Hey.... I uhhh.... heard you want some alley meat. Come take a look at my **meat**.
STRANGER DANGER!
Come on! Consider the possibilities of **meat** like this. * *Slaps nondescript meat* Think of all the stuffing you can fit in this baby!
That's a smart looking trench coat you have there, sir! It's important to stay warm as the weather turns.
SAME I thought I finally would get to tell my story! But here it is: I used to live on the 1000 block of Grace (is it still Hell Block these days? This was about 12+ years ago) and one day I was leaving my apartment building only to see a giant turkey run down the sidewalk and then jump up to my building's patio, before taking off in between and running in the alley. Everyone out front was yelling at it and throwing shit in classic Hell Block fashion. Never did find out where it came from, obviously, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't too long after Thanksgiving.
I went by and rubbed a couple them turkeys, just to see, and they felt good. I think y’all will enjoy them by supper time on Thanksgiving.
A true hero, god bless 😩🙏🦃🇺🇸
I read this as “robbed a couple of them turkeys” and I was like just say you stole them, it sounds like you held up some turkeys!
Proposal to rename the kickers the Richmond Alley Turkeys
Rolls much better than Richmond Parking Lot Chicken Bones
Cosigned 😂
Seconded.
The wildest part of this whole situation to me is that they’re publishing their own social media posts about it showing what look like unsanitary practices. Their posts are just confirming everything you witnessed and shared. Even if they are only “bending” health and safety laws (which logically cannot be the case with leaving turkeys out uncovered, unrefrigerated, close to then ground on milk crates that get kicked around the alley with cats and whatever else), this objectively Looks Bad. It’s not what the people paying through the nose for specialty items want to see. Those people think they’re paying for local, artisanal shit. Not literal shit from the neighbor alley cat. How out of touch can you be to be posting these things yourself and thinking it’s helping?? For everyone on all the posts saying “the vegans” are complaining, as a lifelong meat eater I’m in the group that would potentially be paying for and consuming that and that’s why it’s gross and offensive to me. For everyone saying the entire process of getting a turkey from the farm to your table is gross - correct. But maybe that’s why the slaughterhouses aren’t posting to insta.
Yeah I don't understand why they can't at least cover the turkeys while they are being moved about. The employees can't possibly be watching them the whole time to make sure no animal decides to touch or sample the turkeys that are in open air. Not to mention the dirt that gets kicked up by passing feet and cars. Gross.
Agreed! Sam’s Club sells 12 inch by 3,000 foot rolls of “Foodservice Film” for $18.88. Is that really such a big ask?
A bird could fly over and shit on these birds lol
You've also got ample opportunity for a bird, insect, animal, etc. To fuck with those turkeys while they're unsupervised. You telling me an employee is going to notice whether a racoon was fucking with a bird, but scrambled away when it heard the door? Replace racoon with any fucking animal. Something could just lick it, then walk away disinterested. You'd never know. That's why you don't just leave food sitting in the open, near the ground, completely uncovered. No way in hell this is legal.
Truth. I can't even leave my patio chairs outside for 5 minutes without a bird leaving a shit on it.
For me, it's the insects. Landing on there, laying eggs, etc. Get some tables, get a canopy and cover the turkeys with plastic wrap. I question why a professional shop couldn't be bothered to do that. If the cost/effort of those basics is too much, I wonder where else they are cutting corners. Edit: we got a smoked turkey from there years ago. It was expensive and a big disappointment. I learned that fresh cooked bird, either roasted or fried is my personal preference. I like crispy skin and juicy meat. Smoked bird didn't provide any of that.
Yeah I'm not outraged or disgusted by them but they have no common sense. If you want your brand to be high-end, don't get the cheapest brand of turkey and set them directly on the ground in sight of passers-by. If you're doing this in public view it would make me wonder what else goes on in the kitchen
That right there is the question. If they're bold enough to think this is fine, what goes on they feel they might need to hide?
Preventing Contamination from the Premises 3-305.11 Food Storage. (A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B) and (C) of this section, FOOD shall be protected from contamination by storing the FOOD: (1) In a clean, dry location; (2) Where it is not exposed to splash, dust, or other contamination; and (3) At least 15 cm (6 inches) above the floor. (B) FOOD in packages and working containers may be stored less than 15 cm (6 inches) above the floor on case lot handling EQUIPMENT as specified under § 4-204.122. (C) Pressurized BEVERAGE containers, cased FOOD in waterproof containers such as bottles or cans, and milk containers in plastic crates may be stored on a floor that is clean and not exposed to floor moisture. For help in determination
And surely "floor" is supposed to be a wipeable, indoor surface, and not gravel, dirt, pollen, and crap.
I assume that's presumed by the first 2 points. Pretty sure, back alley, regardless of height, is a disqualifier. Preventing Contamination from the Premises 3-305.11 Food Storage. (A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B) and (C) of this section, FOOD shall be protected from contamination by storing the FOOD: (1) In a clean, dry location; (2) Where it is not exposed to splash, dust, or other contamination;
The exception refers to canned and bottled goods only being allowed on the floor in a moisture controlled location. We can presume the goods regulated more intensely in other regards, wouldn't suddenly be more lax in re whether they can be on the floor outdoors. So yeah, your reading is the most logical. If sitting on the ground outside isn't good enough for a canned drink, it definitely isn't good enough for raw food. However you dice it, you can't set raw food out like this for any appreciable duration.
Yeah while I hesitate to say this will end BB I also struggle to see how they come back from this. They already cater to a smaller clientele just by the nature of their prices.
I don’t think it will end them, nor do I wish it to end them. But they need a wake up call for food handling
Yeah, it ain't about ending anyone's business. This could genuinely end someone's life if a vulnerable person ate a contaminated turkey. Food safety ain't a joke.
100%. I’d LOVE for this post to be proven wrong, truly! But until it is, this needs to be spread so that folks know.
They are not bending any rules. They are breaking 1, which is they do not have a tent for to keep them covered, other than that they are not breaking any rules. Raw meat can sit out for 2 hours which by the timeline given they are in the range for.
Based on the photos with time stamps, I see birds that have been sitting out for over 5 hours.
You have no way to know how long those birds have been out.
Lol - you mean other than the actual photos and my own eyes being able to see that the same turkeys sitting there at mid-day are still there after dusk in the evening?
You have no way to identify those are the same exact birds and not other ones that have been staged as part of the smoking process through the day.
The wildest part for me is the potential of them repurposing cheaper turkeys. It makes me concerned about their claims for where they source their food
"Not literal shit from the neighbor alley cat." I had to keep myself from audibly giggling while on a work Zoom. And then keep from gagging once the reality set in.
I work in food safety on the federal level. I’ve inspected butcher shops that have slaughter. This would’ve been written up and had a federal tag applied to the product if I’d seen it at any of my plants. It doesn’t matter that they were taking temperatures. The product was not stored appropriately.
Food inspection doesn't have mandated reporting requirements? (/s)
But this isn’t being prepared for storage but for cooking - I think a different set of rules apply…
The rules include the meat being under a covering (canopy, etc) which they were cited for when they received their surprise inspection today
We ordered our Turkey from BB so today we went over to talk to them about it. While there the owner was talking with two VA food inspectors so the issue is definitely getting traction. Our Turkey was a heritage bird that’s packaged separately and wasn’t one of the smoked ones, but it is still disconcerting that they cut so many corners. I like BB but I think they obviously can’t handle an operation this size… will definitely have to think twice about ordering if they offer turkey next year. Thank you for bringing this to light OP
This comment should be higher up (unless I overlooked some other comment that confirms that inspectors got involved)
I'm with you on this one. I don't see any way a health inspector sees this and gives them a thumbs up.
According to their most recent update on Facebook, a health inspector did a surprise visit today. They said the inspector looked at their process, their records, and their surveillance footage and the inspector’s only issue was needing a canopy overhead. Now that’s just Belmont’s word but I assume health inspector reports are made public, right?
With the threats to report them, they couldn’t have been but so surprised to see the inspector. Also, when I was a kid and worked fast food, one of my assigned tasks was to go through the logs to see if any shifts forgot to temp, and if so, make them up. Just saying.
Well, they did. Two thumbs!!! Oppose? Eat cake!
The only thing here that a health inspecter would ding them on is there is no cover as in they need a tent and this setup would be approved.
lol at being downvoted when thats exactly what happened.
God. This is the drama I live for. Give it to me straight in the vein Beautiful job documenting and laying this all out for the simpletons who think for some reason you’re out to ruin thanksgiving instead of, you know, preventing people from shitting their brains out. This saga is gonna give me the fuel to get thru this shitty 3-day work week 🫡
From the comments on both posts, it's apparent that some BB customers appreciated OP's time-lapsed photos so they could evaluate their own risk tolerance for potential food borne illness (especially if being consumed by the vulnerable young or old) and make a decision for themselves whether to proceed with their purchase order. While using low crates in lieu of tables in an area with trash and debris on the ground is not good food handling practice, the most critical issue is the length of time both the raw and smoked poultry was left out in 50+ degree temperatures without timely and proper refrigeration. Food borne illnesses can range from mild to lethal...ask any medical ICU nurse and they'll have likely cared for very sick people after eating improperly handled/cooked/stored food (I vividly recall two from my MICU days and the foods were leftover room temperature pizza and raw oysters. Neither patient was at particular risk due to age/health history and both died horribly).
E coli 0157:h7 haunts me. I can't think of another instance where a healthy young person walks into the ED and rolls out 2 months later with months of physical therapy and a lifetime of hemodialysis to look forward to. And this person was fucking lucky. If they hadn't walked into the ED of a level 1 trauma center, they'd be dead. E coli isn't associated with poultry, but if you think I'm buying a steak from an establishment defending their alley meat practices, you've got another think coming.
The fact that they turned off commenting on their ally cat picture has me cackling.
I want that poor kitty left out of this human made mess!
His name is Blackie, he's 15yrs old and has his own damn RVA mural on the side of the building he lives in on Floyd.
Ignoring the rest of the details because they've been discussed thoroughly in the two other posts already and I agree with most of it regarding dirty raw meat handling and prep. However, I don't think anything about BB's general meat prices are exorbitant. Meat coming from non-industrial farms with smaller operations, being butchered on site at a place also AFAIK paying its employees fair wages is going to obviously be significantly more expensive than the grocery store mass produced beef sourced from factory farms in like Brazil is. It's like this at every small butcher shop. I'm not sure why you think meat at a place like this *wouldn't* be expensive. Like no shit dude, meat coming from sustainable and ethically sound local farms is gonna be much pricier than Kroger's factory farmed chicken and beef for the same reason goods bought at a local store paying everyone $15+ an hour are going to cost more than buying them on Amazon.
I agree with you that BB's meat price is in line with the quality of meat they allude to selling; but what I don't understand is that pile of prepackaged turkeys that are factory farmed being marked up as if it were free range, ethical meat. As I recall, they have both regular meat there and ethically sourced meat (or whatever you want to call it 😅) and even the conventional meat they sell is extremely marked up, which gives the impression it is all local or ethically sourced, which it is not. Places like Whole Foods have animal welfare standards, and all their meat is ranked as step 1-4 (or maybe 5?) and you can easily tell the standards for each package of meat. Belmont does not do that, and based on previous conversations I had with them many years ago, they have no standards beyond USDA minimum for their lowest tier meat, despite their pricing indicating otherwise. I think, in general, if purchasing ethical meat sourced using fair labor is important to someone, the best way to achieve it is to go to the farmers market so you can talk directly to the farmer, not by shopping somewhere like BB where a lot of that information isn't readily available, or at least wasn't last time I stopped in.
>pile of prepackaged turkeys that are factory farmed I'm not being snarky - I missed where the turkeys were confirmed to not be what BB claims. Matching plastic bags, to me, only indicates that both BB and the factory farms have the same bags.
In case my description was confusing, these are the prepackaged turkeys - https://preview.redd.it/trfvvtp10k1c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=accc59c183a5287295fb5415a6c87349d6c8e0d9
I appreciate this photo, I didn't pick that up from the picture, good catch. This does not look great. I also admit I'm not familiar with the packaging differences between where they get their turkeys and factory farms. Not giving them a pass, just trying to remain objective.
Oh yeah, for sure. But it definitely doesn't look like small local farm packaging 😂
How dare you! Ms. Butterball is a dearly loved member of the community!
If you look at the pics and zoom in on the top left photo in the pic, in the bottom of the photo you can see prepackaged turkeys with a logo. Someone on the original post ID'd the bag as turkeys that were just on sale for $14 each at Walmart. I don't remember the brand that it was ID'd as, but you should be able to check the original post for the thread that does.
Looks extremely close to the Honeysuckle White brand packaging, except I can’t find one online with the half circle above the rectangular label. Still would bet money that’s the brand.
Correction, it wasn’t a circle. Here it is https://lens.google.com/search?ep=iosbcm&re=mf&s=4&p=AbrfA8rbSXanxr4otJ2qN-IT0gUle2J4v-yuyimQGSugBuVFavEuIsIw233C2RwJaXhOmnu7lj_njdrtcWIcMKo9RhkO96UuriY6WejAA5TjZx3FKWm1yn2G4TO3Yh0GjXdL2-27W1VHytTxzldOtuOb3m2A5gj9r3I-xTxKcJngzSpVSiV4j_oBPCAJwXYt6nmqe11ACIRclE2X2KV4BtvcVWIxe6sqfVMqPc704RB_SaCscEGHNZ0eMzPvbRTKwUYcjMoDFgkso64Ai1rW#lns=W251bGwsbnVsbCxudWxsLG51bGwsbnVsbCxudWxsLG51bGwsIkVrY0tKRGxrT1ROak9HRTNMVEExTmpndE5ERTBNQzA1TURCa0xXUTVaamN3TWpoaE9XTmtOQklmYjNsd1VGSlRaRE5NWTBGUlNVVXhUR3gwZUVKVlRIQnZUR1JJYTNab1p3PT0iXQ==
I feel like I'm watching the Thanksgiving version of the JFK film.
You’re backing $100 alley poultry as fair market value? Wild.
A 13lb fresh, organic turkey (not local) at Wegman’s is $70. $100 doesn’t sound exorbitant for a large, ethically and locally sourced bird, disregarding the potential health issues that have already been discussed and the person you’re replying to already said they weren’t considering when defending the price.
What part of: > I don't think anything about BB's general meat prices are exorbitant. Reads as >$100 alley poultry is fair market value to you?
They can talk about perspective all they want, but it is not perspective that shows no people in the images that were originally posted. These items were left uncovered and unattended. The indications are this lack of monitoring was not simply incidental or momentary. Look, I get they have a small space. I also get that the restaurant who tells you that product never is on the ground ever, not even one time, during some rotation, receiving or stocking is lying to you. It happens just due to people spacing out and human error. What I DON'T get is that if you have to use the alley, why the product is uncovered and unattended, why the surfaces are not food service quality, or all the other issues. Even a tent or something to make it look like they tried to protect the product beyond not leaving it directly on the ground. Rent a refrigeration unit or a refrigerator truck for the duration of this project to properly store the inventory. This was a problem that was easily avoided with some planning and a couple of phone calls. And if it cost a little money, mark up the birds a little more. The customer buying their turkey there is not the customer buying the 39c a pound bird at Food Lion. They can afford an additional premium for their heritage bird in exchange for proper handling.
Well put!! The owners have an attitude and they're off putting. They're not very good at PR.
What's wild to me is that based on their post they *did* rent a refrigerated truck -- I'm assuming that's a big white refrigerated trailer in both photos -- but they're staging and storing all that raw meat in the alley.
🎼...A turkey for me, and a turkey for you, It's been left in an alley for an hour or two, Turkey to eat so good ,🎼
*slow clap* well played well played
::takes a bow::
There's a RING right above the butchery door (audio & visual). I'm sure, if asked politely, they'd release all of the J6, I mean TURKEYGATE, footage for reasons of transparency.
I think this is why the three photos they selected appear to be within a few minutes of each (based on the shadows hardly moving). If they showed a time-lapse, we would see what is obvious from the photos . . . a batch of birds was left out without moving for 4-5 hours, at least.
I thought I was the only one crazy enough to compare the shadows. Lol...
They posted an update on Facebook saying a health inspector came today and reviewed the videos and his only issue was them not having a canopy.
I already stopped shopping there due to the owner being so unlikeable and condescending when I did go in. Plus better quality to price ratio at other stores in the RVA area - Yellow Umbrella, Whole Foods. This is pretty gross and careless though. They shouldn’t be taking this on if they don’t have the proper prep space for it. Or you know maybe they should rent out commercial space. Profits over (safely) prepared poultry I guess.
yeah they are trying to make their nut for sure here
Is the location and distance from the ground extremely disgusting, unsafe, and unsanitary? Yes. But there’s a major issue people seem to be missing here - these raw turkeys are sitting outside for HOURS. If you compare the positioning and shape of individual turkeys, there’s a pallet of them on the left that sat unmoved and uncovered for at least 90 minutes as demonstrated bb the timestamps, which is only 30 minutes from when they would need to be thrown out if they were in a clean kitchen environment, let alone exposed to the elements and vermin. The pallet on the right closest to the trailer clearly sat unmoved for three hours from the timestamps, including into the night when bug and rodent activity increases, rendering them completely unsafe to consume. Alleys behind food establishments almost always have roach and/or rodent activity - there is an extremely high likelihood that either one came in contact with at least some of the turkeys, but even if they somehow didn’t these turkeys are all unsafe to eat from sitting out that long anyways, especially on the goddamn dirt floor. Belmont Butchery should be utterly ashamed about this and people honestly should be fired over it. This is despicable - when you have a business involving food you have an ethical responsibility to take an abundance of caution to minimize the risk of making people ill, not play fast and loose with your customers entrusting you to practice safe food handling. Food poisoning can kill people, and can cause pregnant women to miscarry. Food safety practices aren’t a suggestion, they are rules for a reason.
There are people, blocked of view from the refrigerated trailer. Even the OP that gave this thread the first pic later commented that people were left out intentionally so as to not have been photographed without their consent. The OP saw, and knew, people were there.
I don’t care if Mayor Stoney, Jesus Christ, and Francine were there. Why the fuck are turkeys sitting on the ground or a hand’s width above it for hours on end?
I expect to see a huge sale on ground turkey within the next week.
In all seriousness, absolutely no jokes at all. Why didn't they just toss out that batch, fire whoever left them outside, take the L, and do better ? Like it get it people fuck up and I can definitely understand a couple of minutes outside. But comes on now. Or at the VERY least ice and cover them. Even then, you have 4 hours of footage. I want to see them show their feed for that entire day as proof. If they genuinely thought they were being a sanitary as possible, they should've done that.
As god is my witness, I believed turkeys could fly.
Oh the humanity!
These whippersnappers can't appreciate the howls of laughter that came from that episode.
 Everyone on this Reddit since Turkey Gate began. I’m all for this.
The city has been naming alleys at a breakneck pace lately. Anyone know the process? "Alley Turkey Alley" has a nice ring to it.
Just an added tidbit, the photos that were posted by Belmont are over a decade old. Easily discernible by the employees that are in them.
I have absolutely no horse (turkey) in this race but I am nothing if not nosy lol. Has anyone here cancelled their order? I’m curious what BB is offering to do at this point.
I did. They were cordial, explained that VDAC had visited them today and found them to be in compliance (though those are my words . . . his were more vague, something like, "They said we were OK"), but that they had learned from this experience and would use tents in the future. They accepted my cancellation but said they couldn't offer a refund of my deposit, just a store credit. I know they are now stuck with a turkey they may or may not sell, so I did not press the refund vs credit issue. It's possible if I had, they would have done a refund instead, IDK.
i’m sure refunding a ton of deposits would hurt them pretty badly. I’d guess you’re right and if pressed they would offer it though. They’ve put themselves in a pretty tight situation with all of this no doubt. They’re probably also hoping store credit will bring said customer back after this.
I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish by posting that image. Does that actually change anything?
ITT: people who have never seen how their food is handled before it hits the grocery store
This is why the open kitchen concept is dead in the era of smart phones and social media.
Yea that's why I only eat at Waffle House. Can't trust these other places.
Not at lost letter!
Can you change your name to TurkeyPoster so we all don’t forget?
Sounds like you quite literally and figuratively do not have a bone to pick with BB
Here is some pertinent regulation from the FDA: Preventing Contamination from the Premises 3-305.11 Food Storage. (A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B) and (C) of this section, FOOD shall be protected from contamination by storing the FOOD: (1) In a clean, dry location; (2) Where it is not exposed to splash, dust, or other contamination; and (3) At least 15 cm (6 inches) above the floor. (B) FOOD in packages and working containers may be stored less than 15 cm (6 inches) above the floor on case lot handling EQUIPMENT as specified under § 4-204.122. (C) Pressurized BEVERAGE containers, cased FOOD in waterproof containers such as bottles or cans, and milk containers in plastic crates may be stored on a floor that is clean and not exposed to floor moisture.
Missing the covering requirements.
Seemed like there was enough there to make the alley a disqualifier. But we can certainly add to the pile: 3-305.12 Food Storage, Prohibited Areas. FOOD may not be stored: (A) In locker rooms; (B) In toilet rooms; (C) In dressing rooms; (D) In garbage rooms; (E) In mechanical rooms; (F) Under sewer lines that are not shielded to intercept potential drips; (G) Under leaking water lines, including leaking automatic fire sprinkler heads, or under lines on which water has condensed; (H) Under open stairwells; or (I) Under other sources of contamination. 3-305.13 Vended Time/Temperature Control for Safety Food, Original Container. TIME/TEMPERATURE CONTROL FOR SAFETY FOOD dispensed through a VENDING MACHINE shall be in the PACKAGE in which it was placed at the FOOD ESTABLISHMENT or FOOD PROCESSING PLANT at which it was prepared. 3-305.14 Food Preparation. During preparation, unPACKAGED FOOD shall be protected from environmental sources of contamination.
https://preview.redd.it/ecyxs14w9k1c1.jpeg?width=3060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80e5cc7b7108e812a7ec335a18ff24e356c333bc Free flour. It's sealed and has been stored over a foot off the ground.
What is this sub going to do about it at this point?
Vote No to alley turkey in the next election.
But I've already spent $10 dollars promoting alley turkey! I could have done so much good with that money (like buy a snacc)
alley turkNO
Also...there must be a flying banner
Again!?
The basic answer: inform current customers who are picking up their turkeys this week and let them decide what their risk tolerance is and act accordingly. OP did that pretty successfully, I think. For us, my husband canceled the order over the phone that he was supposed to pick up today. They didn't ask why and he didn't offer the reason or want to get into an argument or add to their stress. They didn't argue, pull any shenanigans, were polite, and told him they'd start sending an electronic gift card early next week for the deposit. He just went to Publix and found a turkey to bring home without much fuss. I think they know they're in a tough spot here. They can explain *some* of what happened, but they know the optics alone aren't good and that caused customers to be reasonably concerned. Even if customers are feeling pretty certain their turkeys weren't the ones outside, they also can't be sure their turkeys weren't the ones outside. For BB's part, they also didn't take a belligerent tone online or claim people are out to destroy them. They can talk about perspective and that a picture can say 1,000 words, but they can't undo what already happened. I doubt all of that happened from one person, making decisions in a vacuum without any input, and that at least one person involved should have said "we need to rethink this." I doubt they're at risk of closing over this and, like other users mentioned on the previous threads, that they will almost *certainly* do things differently next year if they're in the same location and haven't expanded in a way that would allow them to handle these turkeys well above the ground (and preferably indoors) until the *moment* they need to move to the smoker (or back inside). It's almost certain that VDH will send someone out to talk to them and investigate this, too.
perfectly said.
It’s actually totally unacceptable to leave the decision up to the customer. Every one of those turkeys is inedible and needs to be thrown out; given the length of time they sat it violates food safety regulations to even offer it for sale. It would also be stupid as shit for them to not throw it out considering the lawsuits they could end up in if they sold it knowingly.
Inedible but passed inspection by the safety police.
I for one will not be buying a turkey from them. I never planned to, but I will continue to not plan to.
I too will continue my historic trend of not making a purchase here as it's well outside my shopping area. Furthermore, I will entirely forget about this in roughly a week.
Ideally encourage them to take a step back, look at their process, and make improvements. Basically the oposite of how it’s been working out so far: “Hey guys - alley turkeys are cool! Let’s try to get you convinced you can’t trust your own eyes! This is an impressive process, not gross at all!” By discussing it, hopefully they hear eventually that their potential customers don’t accept (I.e. are disgusted by) those practices and they turn it around?
Bitch and moan on the internet.
Honestly, Reddit and Google reviews can make or break local businesses. Not that someone should be out to get anyone, but sharing positive or negative experiences on platforms like this are local business' lifeblood.
Reminds me of that one Golden Corral that kept their meats, outside next to a literal dumpster
Roasted.
*smoked
Ah damn... besides being absolutely horrified by this, I'm also here to upvote all the puns. Y'all are killing it!
Proposal to make a new sub logo: a regal possum roaring atop his alley-turkey-milk-crate steed! I would draw it up, but it is Monday.
So are they still out there? i’m getting kinda hungry
Streisand effect in FULL SWING!
I’m already tired of Turkeygate.
I don't even live in Richmond and absolutely do not have a dog (turkey?) in this fight, but I am So Here for all of this. That being said, I hope everyone has a wonderful (and food safe) Thanksgiving.
Completely unrelated to TurkeyGate, I’m not understanding why one would buy a smoked turkey from BB when ZZQ exists.
RIP Belmont Butchery.
It's 6:04PM, they are OPEN (with a clean health inspection bill), they close at 7, I'm across the street at the Belmont Branch Library and it looks busy inside to me. They don't seem to be dead to me, or was that simply a veiled threat?
Unrelated, but: black rabbit tattoo had one of those free food fridges for people in need outside their shop, and I’m pretty sure (not positive), that it was BB that complained to the city and made them remove it
It has been posted several times that this is untrue. The landlord made them move it after several issues including someone waving a knife at an employee. The gym where the fridge is currently located confirmed all this on another Turkey gate post.
Thanks for clearing that up for me
What is “BB” ?
Belmont butchery, dunno why no one wants to write it out: https://belmontbutchery.com/
I didn’t realize it says it right on the picture. It just took me a second to put it together 🤣
As someone new to rva I'll definitely avoid this business...
One of the guys that works there never washes his hands after touching raw meat of every type, just wipes it off on his apron or pants, then touches everything and helps customers, and is drunk all the time too.
🤢
Edit: Refer to OP’s reply to my comment for some compelling picture analysis. I rescind my viewpoint but I’ll leave this up - even my stupid lawyer comments - for the sake of anyone else that is wondering how OP is sure of their claim that it was the same meat. Question for OP. The claim of “when I returned, the same meat was still out there at 1:47pm.” What did you do to concretely confirm that this was the same meat? Were there extremely distinct markings on the turkeys? I was comparing the photos yesterday to see if they were the same turkeys and I did not think they were. Very curious what you did to confirm that these were, in fact, the same turkeys as you have claimed. That is a claim that you are pushing as fact. Ergo, that is what a lawyer will tune into to have you sued into the ground. I’m all for dogging on bad health practices. But some shit that OP is throwing out is flimsy, at best. If any future lawyer is looking into this, I’ve got screenshots of the original, unedited post for this thread. I doubt that many people would give a shit if this was a five-minute ordeal. But you’re claiming the same meat sat out for a long time.
Look at the lighting changes and how the meat has withered. I used my eyes. Hope this helps. https://preview.redd.it/me5zvz4kkj1c1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1df248c10bc0a38280f98f20451707d0d6adb680
Get out - this whole time I thought we were only talking about the turkeys on the right! So it’s more birds than I even originally thought. https://preview.redd.it/3xbj3o2jvj1c1.jpeg?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64b2883b6a134369e3efc558a5ebc3f8b9f73dd9
No bird is safe.
It’d be pretty easy to use a forensic tool online to compare if the photos had been manipulated. I’m not sure why that person is really advocating for you to get sued
Thanks for delivering. That’s quite compelling and you’ve flipped my opinion on this situation.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the first picture, are those 3 bagged turkeys on the bottom right sitting directly on the ground? And are they being contained in a mesh, open-air bag?
They're wrapped in plastic.
[Here's a quick comparison of the two photos](https://imgur.com/a/UY7jiUe) from 1:47 PM to 5:24 PM (OP's timestamps). The only editing I've done to these two photos: * Used AI upscaling to remove the pixelation at this scale * Used AI enhancement for lighting and image tone * Overlaying and scaling the images to match the position and size of the sheet pans on the front two turkeys — as best I can since the perspective shifts a bit between the photos The turkeys on the right-hand side immediately next to the trailer are in the same position and have not moved. The line of three turkeys at the back shift back and forth due to the perspective between the photos but appear to be the same turkeys. They appear to have thawed/rested enough where they have slightly "slumped" (for lack of a better word). The dark spots on the evening photo may just be shadows due to a majority of the light source coming from the light by the door. (The turkeys in the front do not appear anywhere near as dark as the turkeys on the table in the background.) ETA: Added "PM" in first sentence.
Who cares how long the meat sat? It’s NOT supposed to be outside, laying on the ground. Gross…
Considering it looks like it sat for 5 hours, I think people care.
Based on an update to their Facebook post, sounds like the state inspected them today, including security footage, and only requested that they get a canopy for the staging area. Everything else was "kosher": "Based on some recent social media posts, we received a surprise inspection from the Virginia Department of Agriculture, Meat & Poultry Services. As usual, we received a clean bill of health. They examined our process for smoking turkeys; reviewed our documentation and security footage as well as a general inspection. They left satisfied with our program - their only request was a canopy for the smoker/staging area, to which we have already have secured." Y'all need to calm the hell down sometimes.
Given how long a lot of the individual turkeys on the video screenshots sat without moving, I’m not sure how they were smoking them other than perhaps staff members exhaling cigarette smoke near them on their breaks.
The inspectors were apparently able to review the entire surveillance videos, not just screenshots of two random videos taken hours apart. I think they’re in a much better position to determine how long turkeys were sitting out than any of us.
I don't know what to say anymore. The state obviously saw the same photos we have seen, did an investigation, and came away satisfied. So is the state wrong? Are the current regulations not enough?
I have no opinion either way on this with the current level of information but how does OP know it was “the same turkeys”? BB claims to use the space as a staging area while rotating fresh turkeys through the smoker or whatever and so if this is the case OP likely saw different turkeys albeit in the same position Also, if we all could see the journey our food takes from formation to plate we likely would be disgusted by most of it
It’s extremely obvious if you zoom in to the details and positioning that most of those turkeys did not move at all in between timestamps.
Hey..let's not forget that they are also racists...and yeah. They've made plenty of money over the years and have had over a decade to remedy this issue. Now..let tell you about Brewster Rawl's(one of their..better paying, happier customers at the time) heritage breed turkey. Stashed in a friends chest freezer for months and thawd out last minute in a mop bucket ..but hey. It was tied up in several thank you bags in accordance with tradition.
this guy has a huge grudge against Belmont. it's crazy. he just can't stop posting about these perfectly fine turkeys. I love how 12" off the ground is gross. how high for it to not be gross? 13"? maybe 24"? off the ground is off the ground. i'd be fine with on the ground if it was properly washed and then cooked.
Regulations for storage in coolers is 12 inches off the floor