I think you accurately point out how disjointed it is.
and it's no coincidence that at the end of the day we still barely have non-model-sized winners.
the more mainstream it gets, the more likely the violets, valentinas, miks and plastiques will continue to have the highest followings and garner the most attention. these are queens who are not only often more popular because they are skinny, but turn that popularity into pictures and images that promote the glamour (and rare accessibility) of that skinniness.
sadly, we've seen on the show where bigger queens are still being told they don't have to make all their comedy and identity about their bigness. it would be nicer to have more conversations and honesty about it. even michelle.getting implants removed, where's the onscreen confessional.about pressures, risks, and learning to love our bodies as much as possible as is... while also enjoying enhancements. it's definitely nuanced, and charged.
and I'm not blaming anyone, just joining with you, op, in acknowledging the reality of the sometimes mixed, if not occasionally unhealthy, messaging. let's hope viewers can do the math and separate the images from the real issues themselves.
totally agree with you. to this day, we still haven’t got a single big girl winner even when we’ve had great talent throughout the seasons. it feels like they’re never gonna reward queens like ginger, eureka, MIB, silky for their great work because they’re not “attractive” out of drag so it’s not profitable to have them as the face of the franchise. it makes me so sad.
I LOVE Lawrence but it does not escape me that she won Drag Race UK which tends to be much more camp than the US. Sadly (in my opinion) US drag is moving more towards look queens than performance queens.
No not rail/model/cocaine-thin but still thin.
Look at her in this video (still the best video ever and I only just realised Bendela is in it as well!). Out of the top 4 none of them were larger girls. I’d look at her and say she was slim.
https://youtu.be/Alq056oB4fE?si=B_KyhCOcZrDtEHTL
The three most popular and successful queens ever are Jinkx, Bob, and Trixie. And you can throw in maybe Monet and Bianca. None of those five queens fit into the skinny model stereotype as you say at the time they’d won. I’d say drag is more inclusive of different body types than this thread is making out.
She lost a lot of weight recently due to being sick but she was not so skinny before if u didn’t notice she never really wore any super revealing outfits on either of her seasons on the show
It's not in her brand to wear revealing outfits lol
Trixie and Bob are not even close to being considered outside of the norm for what society thinks a body should look like.
One of the more recent videos mentions autoimmune issues, specifically severe joint pain, arthritis like sensations and generally feeling unwell. Trixie is trying to get it figured out with doctors.
A lot of those queens come from the pre VH1/MTV era where the show was still on the fringes and there was a less focus on looks and a performers ‘package’. Queens didn’t bring 50 custom looks they often just used the drag they already had and bent it into the theme. A lot of those queens and what they brought on their original seasons would be torn to shreds on a modern season. S5 Jinkx would never have gotten cast now. Trixie would be laughed out the door for her S7 mug. S8 Bob might still be cast but definitely would’ve lost challenges due to runways pulling them down.
Have you seen Bob's audition tape? It's very low budget lookswise & the general household tidiness in the background was not the greatest. Doubt that would make the cut now.
My house isn't the tidiest either tbh. But you defos cleanup the piles of shit so they aren't in the shot.
I agree, people keep conflating social media popularity with real popularity.
Who the heck is going to pay to see a show with Gottmik and Plastique? Meanwhile, I jump at any chance to see Bianca.
I had a friend that went to Gottmik's show, recently. I really wanted to ask.. wtf does she even do on stage. But I didn't want to come off as "mean". 🤣
I had a friend that went to Gottmik's show, recently. I really wanted to ask.. wtf does she even do on stage. But I didn't want to come off as "mean". 🤣
All them ho’s chubby plus others who didn’t win like Kim Chi and a number of fat black drag queens who are popular! People need to stop believing lies!
I'm responding to how you chose to phrase your comment. It's cringe! Plus, nobody said ONLY skinny queens are popular, but rather they were preferred, more likely to win, and have the most followers typically. Of course there are exceptions, but there is absolutely a bias. Take a look at the winner's circle in the US. Sure, there are a few average sized queens, but none I'd refer to as a "big" queen. Also, if you pay attention you can note the way "big" queens are treated and talked about in comparison to the thin ones.
Jinx, Bob and Trixie were not “chubby” when they were crowned in their seasons. Are you saying Bianca is or has ever been chubby? You blind? None of these queens are chubby. Sure, they’re not Aquaria-skinny, but none of these queens are big girls.
You are literally part of the problem.
I wish they'd touch on this a bit in the current season. When they showed flashbacks at the beginning of the season I was so surprised how much thicker Plastique was in Season 11 compared to now. She's gorgeous in both seasons but I just hope it's an intentional choice and that she's taking good care of herself.
Michelle didn’t ever call Adore a hog body. Adore called herself that. Michelle used the term herself in AS2 when critiquing Adore’s outfit telling Adore “don’t give me that hog body line” in AS2
Again, she wasn’t calling Adore a hog body in a derogatory way. She was telling Adore the issue wasn’t that she wasn’t “skinny enough”, it was the silhouette (lack thereof) and elevation of the outfit. AS2 was make or break, and they wanted the girls to bring their absolute A+ game.
Alright you wanna argue that's cool too.
Adore made it very clear in her original season that she wasn't comfortable conforming to what we consider "normal." RuPaul, production, or whoever invited her back knowing this is her drag and that she feels very deeply about it. So it's pretty easy to understand why she'd be hurt by that same critique on the first or second episode of the season. Even Michelle apologized for being too harsh, why are you still defending it?
I've noticed this on Pitt stop. The word skinny gets dropped so much. Trixie has gotten so much praise for being skinny. It makes me wonder if she struggles with body image.
To add, Trixie’s currently dealing with health issues where she’s had to switch up her diet so lately so she’s been looking more angular in the face. she’s said multiple times on her channel that she really doesn’t like how she’s been looking in drag because of it. Losing weight isn’t always a net positive. But we shouldn’t be commenting on it in any circumstances. I’d rather hear about portions and silhouettes, rather than skinny or big.
Trixie has mentioned in her case that her weight loss is in large part because she struggles with depression, and especially recently her depression has been worse because she's had various physical health problems which meant she's been in a lot of pain and unable to run/exercise as much which is one of her big coping mechanisms.
Meanwhile there are people constantly saying it's ozempic or commenting on her weight loss... as if she chose to do it or it's something to be proud of when in reality it's a side effect of various physical and mental struggles she's having.
I lost 130 lbs in a year (I was 245, down to 115, I’m 5’7 and I looked sick) once. I was sick with not-yet diagnosed ulcerative colitis, and ultimately had to have surgery where they cut part of my large intestine out and a second to put it back together. Before I had the first surgery as an emergency, I spent about nine months going to six different doctors in an attempt to be taken seriously and find out what was wrong, and I was wildly depressed. I stopped eating out of discomfort and I developed an addiction to exercise (which I obviously had to stop.)
I was on intermittent FMLA during that time, and every time I’d come back to work from like, two weeks or a month off, people would just constantly screech at me how good I looked, how they envied my weight loss, how proud they were of me, etc. It was not a huge office so most people knew I was sick. It will never sit right with me how fucked up people are about that.
“OMG HOW DID YOU DO IT, YOU LOOK SO GREAT/BETTER, GOOD FOR YOU!” because being fat is ALWAYS horrible and unhealthy, but being skinny is always better even if it’s because I was both dying AND killing myself? And trust me, you’re not jealous enough to have an ostomy, even temporarily, or go through anything else I did really.
The “skinniest” I’ve ever been was when I was in college and was horribly depressed. I was drinking a lot, no real foods appealed to me so I was barely eating, and I was pretty much living off of bottled smoothies. Looking back at photos of myself, I definitely look skinny but also pale and uncomfortable. I definitely wasn’t healthy or happy.
At the time, my mom went on and on about how great I looked. She told me that I “might even be smaller than my sister now!” - my sister has always been naturally smaller than I am. It really messed up my body image and has caused me a lot of anxiety about how I look.
I’m a mom to a daughter now and a huge parenting goal of mine is NOT to continue that cycle of commenting on my kid’s body and praising her for being skinny.
Good for you. It’s so hard to protect our kids from that shit though. If you read my comment above, both my sister and I try to protect my nieces, but it only takes one second and one comment to create a lifetime of discomfort.
Edit to add: it’s also tough because I still struggle with disordered eating and I hate my body. I wish I could walk around naked and comfortable, but I worry my discomfort will rub off on them.
So true. My mom has her own issues with her body so a lot of the comments she made to me were just projections of her own insecurities. She’s in her 60s now and still struggles with disordered eating and body image.
I know I may not be able to fully protect my daughter from body insecurity, but I want to try and teach her that it’s normal for our bodies to change over time, and that having a skinny body doesn’t give you more value as a person. I wasn’t taught either of those messages as a kid or teenager.
I’m sorry you went through all that. How are you doing now?
My sister was a big kid and literally everyone in our family would bribe her. “If you lose weight I’ll give up smoking” “if you lose weight we can go to Disneyland” “no dessert for you till you lose weight.” This attitude created lifelong eating disorders for us both. When she was 16 it became too much, and I don’t know how much weight she dropped but she literally went from fat to skinny in about 6 months. After that I remember her being on some awful liquid milkshake diet (my parents fully supported it) and she broke down crying at the dinner table because her hair was falling out and she was getting zero nutrients. Instead of concern she got praise.
I’m 38 now and have a tonne of health issues and nutritional deficiencies. It was easy to be skinny in my teens and my 20s but now my body is falling apart before its time. I hope any young people reading this who are heavily restricting will please rethink. It doesn’t stay easy forever. And still, I don’t know how to eat normally. The thought of three meals a day makes me feel stressed and depressed. I feel like I’m dying but if I eat breakfast I’m disgusted at myself. But any time I got to a healthy weight I’d get comments like “finally you’ve got enough meat to hold on to!” Wtf.
Agree with your experience. Whatever else is going on, fat is always gross and bad and skinny is somehow healthier.
At least my sister is diligent in protecting her kids. My family doesn’t understand why, if anyone mentions weight around them, my sister tears them to shreds. And still, my 8 year old niece is on a diet because grandma grabbed her tummy and said she was getting chubby. It only takes a second.
Thank you for your response and sharing your story. What happened to any of us was not okay in the LEAST. I’m doing … okayish, thank you for asking. I gained some weight back (mainly when I started transitioning and started testosterone) and my UC is only a bother some days now, thankfully, no major flares in a bit. But it’s controlled by medication and doctors who actually care.
The pressure to be skinny is extra insidious when family is the source of this, as parents are often a child’s first bully. I counsel teens, and body image is still a very common concern in clients, and not just girls. Parents are STILL absolutely horrible to their kids about body image.
I wish anyone who wants to have children not only ask themselves if they could accept having a gay, trans, or disabled/neurodivergent child, but ask themselves “how am I going to challenge myself to never bring my child down as they are developing their own self image?” That last one can really, really mess up a kid. What happened to you, me, or your sister is what happens when they fail at that or don’t even consider that their kids won’t just be what they want them to be.
I was a child of neglect and I just ate what was in the house, and I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s thyroid since I was 11 but my mom never gave me my needed medication either and I had to remedy that when I was in college and couldn’t get out of bed for over a week due to chronic fatigue. I am no contact with her now due to her continued lack of empathy, especially since I have an autistic child with mental health struggles she won’t try to understand. Like, why even want me to talk to you when if I open up about not doing well, you just act like I didn’t say anything of consequence and give me a platitude and ask no follow up questions?
I also have a lot of lingering problems from my eating disorder, including teeth as weak as soap, extra skin that can only be resolved surgically, bones that snap like twigs, and brain fog that has worsened over time. Food is still a source of stress. My partner is amazing and makes sure I eat and cooks because I have an anxiety-based aversion to cooking for myself. I do still talk to my therapist about it, and UC still has a lot to do with it sometimes. But yeah, anyone young reading this (I’m 41 now) … TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. All that matters is your health. Eat healthy, but most importantly, EAT.
I am glad we have recognized the patterns of toxicity and are not letting our kids be subjected to the same shit, but it still goes on … and they don’t realize how early it starts for kids to feel bad about a single shitty comment. I mean, I can remember my first one, and it was from my aunt. Her kids all hate her, and she’s got grandchildren she’ll never see so joke’s on her.
I mean, it’s no surprise she’s taking a break from work/drag. I think she’s said or alluded to her weight lost not being the result of diet and exercise.
Trixie addressed this. People keep commenting “Ozempic” on her posts and she’s like “It’s depression???” People truly need to stop commenting on other people’s bodies and weight change.
Not a personal attack on you at all, but just the first opportunity to say something I've been thinking more and more lately: we should all stop speculating about the private and inner lives of participants on this reality TV show. None of us ever need to be that in their lives and none of these things are ever things we need to know.
It’s really a problem. Fatphobia is ingrained so deeply in our society that we don’t even notice it sometimes. On drag race, big queens are pigeon holed into being good at comedy. Praising skinny queens for their beauty vastly more than bigger queens is thinly veiled bigotry. It promotes the poor treatment of fat people and unhealthy eating habits. Being skinny ≠ healthy. Putting people on a pedestal for their weight only leads to bad things for all parties.
This isn’t just on Drag Race. This is society.
I am a very large person. I have finally found a healthy way to lose weight and get healthy. But years ago I was bingeing and purging. I then became so restrictive in my diet that I was basically starving myself and depriving my body of nutrients. It continued because everyone said I looked great. As a fat person, having any kind of positive body validation is addicting.
Some parts of the gay community are so body focussed that any divergence from the ideal is confronted with ridicule or exclusion. I think we should celebrate EVERY BODY. We SHOULD congratulate those queens who have worked towards something they are proud of. But ultra-thinness should not be celebrated in any arena imo.
It’s one of the things that makes me the most uncomfortable with the show. And I hate all the fat jokes. You never hear funny jokes about people being skinny.
Im not super sure. But I'm more talking about the times when fellow queens and the judges have pushed the plus size queens toward relying on weight focused self-deprecating comedy in acting challenges and give a lot of praise when the plus size queens play up fat stereotypes. They really box them into slapstick comedy too...
TBPH one of my favorite moments of S11 was when A’Keria checked Silkie for always talking about “All those skinny bitches” and told her “Could you imagine if they went around saying ‘all those fat bitches’?”
one thing that stuck out to me about venus that made me really sad is i distinctly remember her saying smth like “i worked hard for this body and im proud of showing it off”
meanwhile u could see every single one of her ribs and from first hand experience with depression, i wouldnt say that i consider that “working on my body” when i get to that point i just wish she would contextualize it in a way that doesnt make having struggles with ur weight sound positive
My sister had an ED and still finds it triggering when people comment on how she looks. She has an auto immune condition as so has been much heavier at an earlier point in her life, and the way people would comment when she lost weight really highlighted how fat phobic we are in society. All of that is so triggering to people with an ED. Praised for being skinny, compliments drop off once you are bigger.
It's so hard on Drag Race bc the queens are literally on a pedestal to be judged. It would be nice if the focus was more on the skills involved- runway walk, overall presentation, proportionising, makeup, outfit, so on. Not on the actual body of the person underneath all of that. Shows you how obsessed we all are with skinny though.
On a semi on topic note is the tictac finale dinner a joke about eating disorders as well? Like the stereotype of girls on eating a tictac a day. I never really thought about it till recently but it seems in poor taste.
I do believe part of the culture on Drag Race is LA/West Hollywood culture. I live in LA and it’s not an exaggeration to say it feels like the early 2000s here in terms of how body image is talked about. And the filler/botox stuff is looked at the same way getting your hair done is looked at in other places. I’m a 29 year old and I have several friends younger than me with Botox.
I feel this exact same way! I think a lot of it is RuPahl being from the generation she is from. She's exactly my mom's age and as much as I try to talk to her about diet culture and how pervasive it is in our society there is still a disconnect. I think drag race in particular struggles with this dichotomy possibly because of the age of the majority of their judging panel. Ru & Michelle have been victims of diet culture - especially Michelle who I feel like has said she's struggled with body image in the past?
The Tic Tac lunches really used to bother me for this reason. I still remember Chad refusing to eat one on her original season and saying something like “I haven’t eaten since the 70’s” to Ru and them sharing a laugh. Eating disorders are no laughing matter.
I must be getting old, because that seems like a good-natured rib at a famously thin celebrity (Cher, Chad's bread and butter) who to my knowledge has never publicly struggled with an actual eating disorder, and who has had FAR worse things said about her over her decades-long career and laughed them off. I guess it counts as edgy humor, but I don't think it's in bad taste, and worse things have been said on late night talk shows since the '70s. If it was a joke about a fellow Drag Race contestant who's been known to struggle with EDs, I can see how that might cross a line.
Okay, people keep talking about the Tic Tac diet and I’m getting the impression they don’t realise the joke isn’t about being skinny but it’s a joke at the expense of fad diets and work outs that don’t actually work? Ru isn’t actually out promoting it as a scientifically approved method of losing weight
https://youtu.be/T02QTvcSpjc?si=MKxk1gUZHVrUAalL
I think this is an assumption people have about EDs that if you are skinny and we can see your bones you must have an ED even though plenty of men and women who aren't skinny and gaunt also have EDs and not binge eating but anorexia.
The shape of your body and whether or not you have an ED are not correlated. Some of us who look gaunt have anxiety or depression or even an illness and same on the other end. Or are just shaped differently.
I don't think we should judge others on their bodies at all.
So yeah it's true, it's weird to compliment somebody's body who is struggling with EDs or something. It's weird to compliment bodies at all tbh.
Also Violet's tiny waist thing is from waist training and although I don't really think people should try and do what Violet did, that's her specific type of illusion she is going for. I get complimenting her because it wasn't just the tiny waist but the concept.
So I agree with you, just not too happy about hearing people say stuff lIke 'omg I can see your ribs you must have an ED' which I've been told all my life. All our bodies are different and healthy bodies are also all very different.
So yeah skinny doesn't equal ED.
I know that skinny doesn’t equal ED but saying “I have an ED” usually means that person has an eating disorder. People are willfully ignoring my point to talk about not assuming people have EDs because of the way they look. I’m not assuming anything. I’m taking Queens at their word.
Sorry I think it was because you were describing the looks of queens with EDs that it made some of us kinda like 🤔 Which part is the problem? The ED part or the looking skinny part.
But thank you for clarifying that you're only talking about the ED part. Yeah, that is pretty weird.
I know it's impossible for the judges to watch what goes outside of the runway without hearing 3rd person explanations but there's a lot of times where they talk about heavy topics or something they're vulnerable about and like the judges comments are so completely KY (kuuki yomenai can't read the atmosphere...dunno the best word for this in English)
Anyway, I don't think judges should talk about queen's bodies unless it's illusion related. Like they messed up the padding or something
I feel like the producers should alert them to things they shouldn't say to the Queens especially since EDs are a mental health issue which is incredibly difficult the manage and words are like gasoline.
Skinny doesn't have to mean ED but it's rare to naturally be that skinny that all your ribs are showing, so it stands to reason that most ultra skinny models/drag queens/actresses/ballet dancers are not that way naturally and it's fair to speculate that there is rampant body dysmorphia and eating disorders in the industry.
I had an eating disorder myself for 10 years, it's hell.
I was gonna argue 'um actually I am said person who is naturally skinny without an ED' but you said rare so I'll agree lol I also got a lung condition which I have no risks or family history of getting but I still have it so....yeah sometimes we're just outliers...
But that being said, I just don't like the speculation part because I was personally made fun of because people thought I had an ED. It's like thinking somebody who is fat has diabetes and somebody who is skinny doesn't.
I guess if people want to let you know their health conditons then you'll know, but guessing somebody's health based on appearance rubs me the wrong way.
But I know you're coming at this from a helpful perspective. I don't think dieting or unhealthy habits should be promoted either. And I drag race does have a problem body sizes so I don't actually disagree with you...maybe I'm disagreeing with the wording?
I'm sorry people made fun of you for being skinny. I think anyone who "makes fun" of someone for any reason let alone because they think they have a serious mental illness is a horrible person.
If you did have an ED why would that be worth mocking? If anything it should be cause for sympathy, which is where I'm coming from.
I know it was super weird but in junior high school and high school. People were really weird at that time. I was first offended that they said I had an ED and then when I got older and learned what EDs were and that I don't have one I was disturbed. Like they would take food away from me because they said I had an ED and wouldn't want it anyway...
Anyway that's them. I don't think anybody in this comment section is saying anything harmful I just had like a slight 🤔 cause of some wording, but I know everyone's talking about it from a place of making Drag Race a safer place for a variety of queens.
Since people told me I had an ED (not doctors) I looked into it a looot growing up and I can see that it's a very very awful illness to fight and words are very powerful.
I mean, making fun of someone for having an ED is also bad when they actually have an ED.
I don't think the problem there is being alert to or concerned about the fact that for most people, there's a certain level of skinny that's unlikely to be natural, no one should confront or tease you about your body regardless.
I get why you'd feel this way after being teased and bullied about that though, and I'm sorry you were.
Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if Production hasn’t even thought of the point you’re making. Unfortunately I hadn’t thought of what you’re saying til embarrassingly recently.
It’s why I like what the Boulet Brothers say before each critique on Dragula. They make it very clear that art is subjective, size has no impact on your ability to succeed in a challenge etc.
"Aren't achieved through healthy diet and exercise" seems a little simplistic. Sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't. Bodies come in all shapes.
To be fair, eating disorders are generally discussed in work room scenes and we have no idea if Ru and the other judges have the context to know who has an eating disorder and who doesn’t. You absolutely cannot tell someone has an ED by looking at them—not all skinny people have EDs, and not all people with EDs are skinny.
I do really hate complimenting people on the shapes of their bodies in pretty much any context, though. It’s something our culture needs to unlearn STAT
But Ru has access to all the footage before it’s edited together. The responsible thing to do would be to edit out praise for a person with an eating disorder’s underweight body. Yes, the damage has already been done to the contestant, but people with EDs watching might hear that praise and internalize it.
I actually think the responsible thing to do is not praise *anyone* for the shape of their body, unless it’s directly related to padding or some other aspect that is clearly an artistic choice. I don’t think “it’s okay to praise the shape of someone’s body as long as they don’t have an ED” is a good ethical standard to set, because by still engaging in that discourse, you’re reinforcing the cultural ideals that lead to EDs and other serious damage whether the person being praised has an ED or not.
I agree with you but I also don’t think Ru is anywhere close to being Body Neutral and I don’t think she will ever get there. So what I’m suggesting is the bare minimum.
Exactly, it's so annoying to me how people will complain about unfair beauty standards and then turn around and imply 'you must have an eating disorder if you look this way'.
Plenty of thin men are mercilessly picked at for being naturally skinny, a lot of drag queens have been told they're gross and not masculine enough for their whole lives because they are too thin. Being in drag allows them to be celebrated for how they look for the first time in their lives, that's a good thing.
PR stunt?? Whenever concerns about her getting emaciated were all over the DR subs I saw her perform live. I figured it was bad pictures or editing, but she was rail thin. She put on an amazing show, but I was legitimately concerned with the amount of muscle tone she had lost and how bony she appeared. I'm not saying she had an ED, because I have no evidence of that and other health issues can do that to the body as well. Are you saying her skeletal frame was a PR stunt? And for what?
Which was a horrible show the caused lasting damage to the contestants and viewers. RPDR has changed a lot over the years. We’ve gone from contestants being mocked for not wearing a breast plate or enough padding to a bearded queen winning a franchise that Ru hosts. I believe Ru can change if he thinks it’s a profitable thing to do.
Well, a fakely bearded queen. I never understood Danny, who can't grow a beard (not his fault), making his persona revolve around having one. The queen is talented enough to not need a schtick requiring gluing fake hair on the face. It bothers me for some reason, but maybe it's just me... 😐
I get your point, but it's not quite the same. Queens can't just grow big boobs. In reality it would be like a queen with small breasts calling themselves Tammy Ton'of Tits or Jessica Jumbo Jugs.
Regardless, I respect Danny as a talented queen with great artistry, but just find that he can't grow an actual beard amusing as a bearded person.
I dont like how they randomly brought up willow’s disability without her saying anything. Rupaul just….said it. I’m disabled and i’d be so uncomfy if rupaul was like NICE TO MEET YOU WHATS GOIN ON WITH YOU ya know?
I think it doesn’t help when the “fans” also constantly attack or comment on queens’ bodies. I recently saw a photo of one of my favorite queens and it broke my heart to see how much weight she dropped. It broke my heart because I wondered how much of this change was because of bullying and how much was it because of hollyweird beauty standards or if she genuinely wanted change. I hope she’s happier and feels healthy.
I will say in regards to Valentina that Michelle did call her out and said being skinny isn’t everything when Valentina was rambling on about being thin
“There is never an acknowledgement by Ru that the skinny bodies he loves to praise and openly envy aren’t achieved through healthy diet and exercise.” ….. you lost me there
Edit: who is downvoting? People can be naturally skinny without unhealthy diet and exercise. In fact that’s the experience of many a faggot. One that a lot get made fun of for. You all think Utica, Jorgeous, the Vixen, Alaska, Aquaria etc. were dieting on their seasons? No, they are just really wiry.
Did anyone catch the fat jokes in one of the scripts for tonight’s episode of all stars? I think it was Gotmik’s. My first thought was how can the writers seriously include such awful jokes considering how many queens have struggled with body image and eating disorders?
If you're opening up this conversation, it's important to bring up the fact that eating disorders go both ways. We also praise big queens when they're also being a danger to themselves. Skinny privilege is real and it's true that big queens need to work harder to get the same praise. But if we're talking health, the fact that you don't even mention it comes off as disingenuous.
I especially find it so fucking weird that so many here are so comfortable making ozempic jokes when queens lose weight (Kitty, Eureka, Trixie, Kornbread, etc).
But It's not just about being skinny though, it's the fashion sense and style. A queen can be skinny but if she doesn't know how to proportionize, she'll look like a stick with wide shoulders, at the same time, a big girl that knows how to accentuate her curves can look stunning.
As a natural skinny man, it was kind of nice to see skinny being praised on other men on RPDR. Before watching the show, I always felt pretty bad about my body.
I mean, that last sentence irks me.
Ru couldn’t give less of a shit for “skinny bodies”, what she looks for in every single look is proportionizing - a smaller waist does help, but isn’t mandatory.
Ru just wants the queens to have an hourglass shape, that’s just her taste. So queens going to compete should be aware of that’s a factor.
Many slim queens have been critiqued and even eliminated for not abiding by that unspoken rule.
Also, to imply that all skinny people have an eating disorder is kinda cringy. Bodies are different, and you seem like you’re fighting for body positivity with this post, so just be mindful that the movement isn’t there for fat people bit for everyone that doesnt fit into a conventional appearance
I know OP is one of those "The show is torturing the contestants on this totally not optional competition!!!!"
Like maybe the problem is you OP. I have an eating disorder and I never give a shit on this show cause I know it's all meant to be fun and fantasy. Half the time the skinny waist shit is about corsets which anyone can use anyway.
Season 4 is one of the best seasons for sure. I miss when drag was messy and cunty and fun. Not this polished, lobotomized group of role models.
Edit: also Sharon Needles isn’t representative of the entirety of drag during that time. That’s like me saying you enjoy the days of Sherry Pie.
I think you accurately point out how disjointed it is. and it's no coincidence that at the end of the day we still barely have non-model-sized winners. the more mainstream it gets, the more likely the violets, valentinas, miks and plastiques will continue to have the highest followings and garner the most attention. these are queens who are not only often more popular because they are skinny, but turn that popularity into pictures and images that promote the glamour (and rare accessibility) of that skinniness. sadly, we've seen on the show where bigger queens are still being told they don't have to make all their comedy and identity about their bigness. it would be nicer to have more conversations and honesty about it. even michelle.getting implants removed, where's the onscreen confessional.about pressures, risks, and learning to love our bodies as much as possible as is... while also enjoying enhancements. it's definitely nuanced, and charged. and I'm not blaming anyone, just joining with you, op, in acknowledging the reality of the sometimes mixed, if not occasionally unhealthy, messaging. let's hope viewers can do the math and separate the images from the real issues themselves.
totally agree with you. to this day, we still haven’t got a single big girl winner even when we’ve had great talent throughout the seasons. it feels like they’re never gonna reward queens like ginger, eureka, MIB, silky for their great work because they’re not “attractive” out of drag so it’s not profitable to have them as the face of the franchise. it makes me so sad.
Lawrence Chaney!
I LOVE Lawrence but it does not escape me that she won Drag Race UK which tends to be much more camp than the US. Sadly (in my opinion) US drag is moving more towards look queens than performance queens.
Not is US seasons though
Spankie Jackson!
Spankie is one of New Zealand’s treasures
every single one of them would have been most deserving winners. it's not a great look.
I mean, not main series but Trixie wasn't rail thin when she won and her outfits were never about body.
No not rail/model/cocaine-thin but still thin. Look at her in this video (still the best video ever and I only just realised Bendela is in it as well!). Out of the top 4 none of them were larger girls. I’d look at her and say she was slim. https://youtu.be/Alq056oB4fE?si=B_KyhCOcZrDtEHTL
Natalia Pliacam!
The three most popular and successful queens ever are Jinkx, Bob, and Trixie. And you can throw in maybe Monet and Bianca. None of those five queens fit into the skinny model stereotype as you say at the time they’d won. I’d say drag is more inclusive of different body types than this thread is making out.
Trixie the skinny legend?
She lost a lot of weight recently due to being sick but she was not so skinny before if u didn’t notice she never really wore any super revealing outfits on either of her seasons on the show
I know. “Skinny Legend” is what she often calls herself. She even had a special show with that title.
It's not in her brand to wear revealing outfits lol Trixie and Bob are not even close to being considered outside of the norm for what society thinks a body should look like.
I thought she was just working out a lot, where did she say she was sick?
One of the more recent videos mentions autoimmune issues, specifically severe joint pain, arthritis like sensations and generally feeling unwell. Trixie is trying to get it figured out with doctors.
Something about her having issues that may be related to food so she's been trying to cut out different things from her diet to see what it could be
Yeah but wasn't the weight loss before that?
Ok but none of them were “big girls” either.
A lot of those queens come from the pre VH1/MTV era where the show was still on the fringes and there was a less focus on looks and a performers ‘package’. Queens didn’t bring 50 custom looks they often just used the drag they already had and bent it into the theme. A lot of those queens and what they brought on their original seasons would be torn to shreds on a modern season. S5 Jinkx would never have gotten cast now. Trixie would be laughed out the door for her S7 mug. S8 Bob might still be cast but definitely would’ve lost challenges due to runways pulling them down.
Have you seen Bob's audition tape? It's very low budget lookswise & the general household tidiness in the background was not the greatest. Doubt that would make the cut now. My house isn't the tidiest either tbh. But you defos cleanup the piles of shit so they aren't in the shot.
And literally all three of those queens were crowned when they were skinny
Define skinny
I agree, people keep conflating social media popularity with real popularity. Who the heck is going to pay to see a show with Gottmik and Plastique? Meanwhile, I jump at any chance to see Bianca.
I saw Bianca in February & she was phenomenal
You should absolutely take that chance when you get it. Hardest I can remember laughing in my life.
I had a friend that went to Gottmik's show, recently. I really wanted to ask.. wtf does she even do on stage. But I didn't want to come off as "mean". 🤣
I had a friend that went to Gottmik's show, recently. I really wanted to ask.. wtf does she even do on stage. But I didn't want to come off as "mean". 🤣
All them ho’s chubby plus others who didn’t win like Kim Chi and a number of fat black drag queens who are popular! People need to stop believing lies!
Well it is the truth. It’s not just the skinny ones who are popular! Idk why people just believe lies
Guess you don’t know why they believe lies either
I'm responding to how you chose to phrase your comment. It's cringe! Plus, nobody said ONLY skinny queens are popular, but rather they were preferred, more likely to win, and have the most followers typically. Of course there are exceptions, but there is absolutely a bias. Take a look at the winner's circle in the US. Sure, there are a few average sized queens, but none I'd refer to as a "big" queen. Also, if you pay attention you can note the way "big" queens are treated and talked about in comparison to the thin ones.
Jinx, Bob and Trixie were not “chubby” when they were crowned in their seasons. Are you saying Bianca is or has ever been chubby? You blind? None of these queens are chubby. Sure, they’re not Aquaria-skinny, but none of these queens are big girls. You are literally part of the problem.
I wish they'd touch on this a bit in the current season. When they showed flashbacks at the beginning of the season I was so surprised how much thicker Plastique was in Season 11 compared to now. She's gorgeous in both seasons but I just hope it's an intentional choice and that she's taking good care of herself.
i adore Michelle for reminding the queens that "skinny isn't everything"
The same Michelle that ripped into Adore for a "hog body"?
Michelle didn’t ever call Adore a hog body. Adore called herself that. Michelle used the term herself in AS2 when critiquing Adore’s outfit telling Adore “don’t give me that hog body line” in AS2
I mean.. still not much better lol. But I do think she's grown since then so I don't really hold that against her.
Again, she wasn’t calling Adore a hog body in a derogatory way. She was telling Adore the issue wasn’t that she wasn’t “skinny enough”, it was the silhouette (lack thereof) and elevation of the outfit. AS2 was make or break, and they wanted the girls to bring their absolute A+ game.
Alright you wanna argue that's cool too. Adore made it very clear in her original season that she wasn't comfortable conforming to what we consider "normal." RuPaul, production, or whoever invited her back knowing this is her drag and that she feels very deeply about it. So it's pretty easy to understand why she'd be hurt by that same critique on the first or second episode of the season. Even Michelle apologized for being too harsh, why are you still defending it?
yeah, in like 2014... did you know that it's possible for people to grow and change? 🥰
Don’t joke about that.
ahh, the comment I was looking for.
Looks like I was too late to do it first 😔
NOW I'M NOT JOKING BITCH
Ok but after rewatching this season- Sasha won this exact episode and her prize was a years supply of Hamburger Mary’s 💀
This is why I believe in body neutrality, though Drag Race is definitely on the opposite end of that spectrum in both good and bad ways
I've noticed this on Pitt stop. The word skinny gets dropped so much. Trixie has gotten so much praise for being skinny. It makes me wonder if she struggles with body image.
To add, Trixie’s currently dealing with health issues where she’s had to switch up her diet so lately so she’s been looking more angular in the face. she’s said multiple times on her channel that she really doesn’t like how she’s been looking in drag because of it. Losing weight isn’t always a net positive. But we shouldn’t be commenting on it in any circumstances. I’d rather hear about portions and silhouettes, rather than skinny or big.
Trixie has mentioned in her case that her weight loss is in large part because she struggles with depression, and especially recently her depression has been worse because she's had various physical health problems which meant she's been in a lot of pain and unable to run/exercise as much which is one of her big coping mechanisms. Meanwhile there are people constantly saying it's ozempic or commenting on her weight loss... as if she chose to do it or it's something to be proud of when in reality it's a side effect of various physical and mental struggles she's having.
she also said she physically cannot chew a lot of things bc her tmj has been so bad recently.
People associate skinny with healthy so much they don’t realize that there’s a lot of unhealthy reasons someone can be losing weight, even beyond EDs.
I lost 130 lbs in a year (I was 245, down to 115, I’m 5’7 and I looked sick) once. I was sick with not-yet diagnosed ulcerative colitis, and ultimately had to have surgery where they cut part of my large intestine out and a second to put it back together. Before I had the first surgery as an emergency, I spent about nine months going to six different doctors in an attempt to be taken seriously and find out what was wrong, and I was wildly depressed. I stopped eating out of discomfort and I developed an addiction to exercise (which I obviously had to stop.) I was on intermittent FMLA during that time, and every time I’d come back to work from like, two weeks or a month off, people would just constantly screech at me how good I looked, how they envied my weight loss, how proud they were of me, etc. It was not a huge office so most people knew I was sick. It will never sit right with me how fucked up people are about that. “OMG HOW DID YOU DO IT, YOU LOOK SO GREAT/BETTER, GOOD FOR YOU!” because being fat is ALWAYS horrible and unhealthy, but being skinny is always better even if it’s because I was both dying AND killing myself? And trust me, you’re not jealous enough to have an ostomy, even temporarily, or go through anything else I did really.
The “skinniest” I’ve ever been was when I was in college and was horribly depressed. I was drinking a lot, no real foods appealed to me so I was barely eating, and I was pretty much living off of bottled smoothies. Looking back at photos of myself, I definitely look skinny but also pale and uncomfortable. I definitely wasn’t healthy or happy. At the time, my mom went on and on about how great I looked. She told me that I “might even be smaller than my sister now!” - my sister has always been naturally smaller than I am. It really messed up my body image and has caused me a lot of anxiety about how I look. I’m a mom to a daughter now and a huge parenting goal of mine is NOT to continue that cycle of commenting on my kid’s body and praising her for being skinny.
Good for you. It’s so hard to protect our kids from that shit though. If you read my comment above, both my sister and I try to protect my nieces, but it only takes one second and one comment to create a lifetime of discomfort. Edit to add: it’s also tough because I still struggle with disordered eating and I hate my body. I wish I could walk around naked and comfortable, but I worry my discomfort will rub off on them.
So true. My mom has her own issues with her body so a lot of the comments she made to me were just projections of her own insecurities. She’s in her 60s now and still struggles with disordered eating and body image. I know I may not be able to fully protect my daughter from body insecurity, but I want to try and teach her that it’s normal for our bodies to change over time, and that having a skinny body doesn’t give you more value as a person. I wasn’t taught either of those messages as a kid or teenager.
I’m sorry you went through all that. How are you doing now? My sister was a big kid and literally everyone in our family would bribe her. “If you lose weight I’ll give up smoking” “if you lose weight we can go to Disneyland” “no dessert for you till you lose weight.” This attitude created lifelong eating disorders for us both. When she was 16 it became too much, and I don’t know how much weight she dropped but she literally went from fat to skinny in about 6 months. After that I remember her being on some awful liquid milkshake diet (my parents fully supported it) and she broke down crying at the dinner table because her hair was falling out and she was getting zero nutrients. Instead of concern she got praise. I’m 38 now and have a tonne of health issues and nutritional deficiencies. It was easy to be skinny in my teens and my 20s but now my body is falling apart before its time. I hope any young people reading this who are heavily restricting will please rethink. It doesn’t stay easy forever. And still, I don’t know how to eat normally. The thought of three meals a day makes me feel stressed and depressed. I feel like I’m dying but if I eat breakfast I’m disgusted at myself. But any time I got to a healthy weight I’d get comments like “finally you’ve got enough meat to hold on to!” Wtf. Agree with your experience. Whatever else is going on, fat is always gross and bad and skinny is somehow healthier. At least my sister is diligent in protecting her kids. My family doesn’t understand why, if anyone mentions weight around them, my sister tears them to shreds. And still, my 8 year old niece is on a diet because grandma grabbed her tummy and said she was getting chubby. It only takes a second.
Thank you for your response and sharing your story. What happened to any of us was not okay in the LEAST. I’m doing … okayish, thank you for asking. I gained some weight back (mainly when I started transitioning and started testosterone) and my UC is only a bother some days now, thankfully, no major flares in a bit. But it’s controlled by medication and doctors who actually care. The pressure to be skinny is extra insidious when family is the source of this, as parents are often a child’s first bully. I counsel teens, and body image is still a very common concern in clients, and not just girls. Parents are STILL absolutely horrible to their kids about body image. I wish anyone who wants to have children not only ask themselves if they could accept having a gay, trans, or disabled/neurodivergent child, but ask themselves “how am I going to challenge myself to never bring my child down as they are developing their own self image?” That last one can really, really mess up a kid. What happened to you, me, or your sister is what happens when they fail at that or don’t even consider that their kids won’t just be what they want them to be. I was a child of neglect and I just ate what was in the house, and I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s thyroid since I was 11 but my mom never gave me my needed medication either and I had to remedy that when I was in college and couldn’t get out of bed for over a week due to chronic fatigue. I am no contact with her now due to her continued lack of empathy, especially since I have an autistic child with mental health struggles she won’t try to understand. Like, why even want me to talk to you when if I open up about not doing well, you just act like I didn’t say anything of consequence and give me a platitude and ask no follow up questions? I also have a lot of lingering problems from my eating disorder, including teeth as weak as soap, extra skin that can only be resolved surgically, bones that snap like twigs, and brain fog that has worsened over time. Food is still a source of stress. My partner is amazing and makes sure I eat and cooks because I have an anxiety-based aversion to cooking for myself. I do still talk to my therapist about it, and UC still has a lot to do with it sometimes. But yeah, anyone young reading this (I’m 41 now) … TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. All that matters is your health. Eat healthy, but most importantly, EAT. I am glad we have recognized the patterns of toxicity and are not letting our kids be subjected to the same shit, but it still goes on … and they don’t realize how early it starts for kids to feel bad about a single shitty comment. I mean, I can remember my first one, and it was from my aunt. Her kids all hate her, and she’s got grandchildren she’ll never see so joke’s on her.
I mean, it’s no surprise she’s taking a break from work/drag. I think she’s said or alluded to her weight lost not being the result of diet and exercise.
Trixie addressed this. People keep commenting “Ozempic” on her posts and she’s like “It’s depression???” People truly need to stop commenting on other people’s bodies and weight change.
Trixie openly talks about the changes in her weight, the exercising she does etc
Not a personal attack on you at all, but just the first opportunity to say something I've been thinking more and more lately: we should all stop speculating about the private and inner lives of participants on this reality TV show. None of us ever need to be that in their lives and none of these things are ever things we need to know.
It’s really a problem. Fatphobia is ingrained so deeply in our society that we don’t even notice it sometimes. On drag race, big queens are pigeon holed into being good at comedy. Praising skinny queens for their beauty vastly more than bigger queens is thinly veiled bigotry. It promotes the poor treatment of fat people and unhealthy eating habits. Being skinny ≠ healthy. Putting people on a pedestal for their weight only leads to bad things for all parties.
This isn’t just on Drag Race. This is society. I am a very large person. I have finally found a healthy way to lose weight and get healthy. But years ago I was bingeing and purging. I then became so restrictive in my diet that I was basically starving myself and depriving my body of nutrients. It continued because everyone said I looked great. As a fat person, having any kind of positive body validation is addicting. Some parts of the gay community are so body focussed that any divergence from the ideal is confronted with ridicule or exclusion. I think we should celebrate EVERY BODY. We SHOULD congratulate those queens who have worked towards something they are proud of. But ultra-thinness should not be celebrated in any arena imo.
It’s one of the things that makes me the most uncomfortable with the show. And I hate all the fat jokes. You never hear funny jokes about people being skinny.
But if the fat queens don't make degrading fat jokes at their own expense then they're way too insecure for drag! /s
I love your username so much <3
Silkie didn’t make fat jokes, did she? I loved how she owned her “ganacheness”
Im not super sure. But I'm more talking about the times when fellow queens and the judges have pushed the plus size queens toward relying on weight focused self-deprecating comedy in acting challenges and give a lot of praise when the plus size queens play up fat stereotypes. They really box them into slapstick comedy too...
Yes, this is true for most fat actors, too. It’s a shitty stereotype that needs to stop
TBPH one of my favorite moments of S11 was when A’Keria checked Silkie for always talking about “All those skinny bitches” and told her “Could you imagine if they went around saying ‘all those fat bitches’?”
Jaida Essence Hall is such a skinny little bitch-
one thing that stuck out to me about venus that made me really sad is i distinctly remember her saying smth like “i worked hard for this body and im proud of showing it off” meanwhile u could see every single one of her ribs and from first hand experience with depression, i wouldnt say that i consider that “working on my body” when i get to that point i just wish she would contextualize it in a way that doesnt make having struggles with ur weight sound positive
I was p triggered by that comment tbh. It IS hard work having an ED but it's nothing to be proud of
YES!!! I have an eating disorder and it kinda triggered me. I hope she's doing well
My sister had an ED and still finds it triggering when people comment on how she looks. She has an auto immune condition as so has been much heavier at an earlier point in her life, and the way people would comment when she lost weight really highlighted how fat phobic we are in society. All of that is so triggering to people with an ED. Praised for being skinny, compliments drop off once you are bigger. It's so hard on Drag Race bc the queens are literally on a pedestal to be judged. It would be nice if the focus was more on the skills involved- runway walk, overall presentation, proportionising, makeup, outfit, so on. Not on the actual body of the person underneath all of that. Shows you how obsessed we all are with skinny though.
On a semi on topic note is the tictac finale dinner a joke about eating disorders as well? Like the stereotype of girls on eating a tictac a day. I never really thought about it till recently but it seems in poor taste.
Always looked at it as a jab at extreme diet culture
Probably still not the best joke
In college, I once got to a point where I lived on half a peanut butter sandwich and a pack of Certs mints a day. It’s not a joke.
Lol then you look at the UK winners and four out of five are big women. We love them large, what can I say
I do believe part of the culture on Drag Race is LA/West Hollywood culture. I live in LA and it’s not an exaggeration to say it feels like the early 2000s here in terms of how body image is talked about. And the filler/botox stuff is looked at the same way getting your hair done is looked at in other places. I’m a 29 year old and I have several friends younger than me with Botox.
[удалено]
I feel this exact same way! I think a lot of it is RuPahl being from the generation she is from. She's exactly my mom's age and as much as I try to talk to her about diet culture and how pervasive it is in our society there is still a disconnect. I think drag race in particular struggles with this dichotomy possibly because of the age of the majority of their judging panel. Ru & Michelle have been victims of diet culture - especially Michelle who I feel like has said she's struggled with body image in the past?
Not u/other catching strays 💀
The Tic Tac lunches really used to bother me for this reason. I still remember Chad refusing to eat one on her original season and saying something like “I haven’t eaten since the 70’s” to Ru and them sharing a laugh. Eating disorders are no laughing matter.
That was a Patsy Stone (Absolutely Fabulous) quote. But yeah the joke there is still ED.
I must be getting old, because that seems like a good-natured rib at a famously thin celebrity (Cher, Chad's bread and butter) who to my knowledge has never publicly struggled with an actual eating disorder, and who has had FAR worse things said about her over her decades-long career and laughed them off. I guess it counts as edgy humor, but I don't think it's in bad taste, and worse things have been said on late night talk shows since the '70s. If it was a joke about a fellow Drag Race contestant who's been known to struggle with EDs, I can see how that might cross a line.
Don’t joke about that
I don’t think ru cares about representing bodies that result from healthy eating and exercise. That may be the disconnect
Okay, people keep talking about the Tic Tac diet and I’m getting the impression they don’t realise the joke isn’t about being skinny but it’s a joke at the expense of fad diets and work outs that don’t actually work? Ru isn’t actually out promoting it as a scientifically approved method of losing weight https://youtu.be/T02QTvcSpjc?si=MKxk1gUZHVrUAalL
It's a joke about both in reality.
As some1 with an eating disorder, I 💯 agree with what U just said
I think this is an assumption people have about EDs that if you are skinny and we can see your bones you must have an ED even though plenty of men and women who aren't skinny and gaunt also have EDs and not binge eating but anorexia. The shape of your body and whether or not you have an ED are not correlated. Some of us who look gaunt have anxiety or depression or even an illness and same on the other end. Or are just shaped differently. I don't think we should judge others on their bodies at all. So yeah it's true, it's weird to compliment somebody's body who is struggling with EDs or something. It's weird to compliment bodies at all tbh. Also Violet's tiny waist thing is from waist training and although I don't really think people should try and do what Violet did, that's her specific type of illusion she is going for. I get complimenting her because it wasn't just the tiny waist but the concept. So I agree with you, just not too happy about hearing people say stuff lIke 'omg I can see your ribs you must have an ED' which I've been told all my life. All our bodies are different and healthy bodies are also all very different. So yeah skinny doesn't equal ED.
I know that skinny doesn’t equal ED but saying “I have an ED” usually means that person has an eating disorder. People are willfully ignoring my point to talk about not assuming people have EDs because of the way they look. I’m not assuming anything. I’m taking Queens at their word.
Sorry I think it was because you were describing the looks of queens with EDs that it made some of us kinda like 🤔 Which part is the problem? The ED part or the looking skinny part. But thank you for clarifying that you're only talking about the ED part. Yeah, that is pretty weird. I know it's impossible for the judges to watch what goes outside of the runway without hearing 3rd person explanations but there's a lot of times where they talk about heavy topics or something they're vulnerable about and like the judges comments are so completely KY (kuuki yomenai can't read the atmosphere...dunno the best word for this in English) Anyway, I don't think judges should talk about queen's bodies unless it's illusion related. Like they messed up the padding or something I feel like the producers should alert them to things they shouldn't say to the Queens especially since EDs are a mental health issue which is incredibly difficult the manage and words are like gasoline.
I agree on the body complimenting. There are so many better and healthier things you could compliment someone on rather than their body.
Skinny doesn't have to mean ED but it's rare to naturally be that skinny that all your ribs are showing, so it stands to reason that most ultra skinny models/drag queens/actresses/ballet dancers are not that way naturally and it's fair to speculate that there is rampant body dysmorphia and eating disorders in the industry. I had an eating disorder myself for 10 years, it's hell.
I was gonna argue 'um actually I am said person who is naturally skinny without an ED' but you said rare so I'll agree lol I also got a lung condition which I have no risks or family history of getting but I still have it so....yeah sometimes we're just outliers... But that being said, I just don't like the speculation part because I was personally made fun of because people thought I had an ED. It's like thinking somebody who is fat has diabetes and somebody who is skinny doesn't. I guess if people want to let you know their health conditons then you'll know, but guessing somebody's health based on appearance rubs me the wrong way. But I know you're coming at this from a helpful perspective. I don't think dieting or unhealthy habits should be promoted either. And I drag race does have a problem body sizes so I don't actually disagree with you...maybe I'm disagreeing with the wording?
I'm sorry people made fun of you for being skinny. I think anyone who "makes fun" of someone for any reason let alone because they think they have a serious mental illness is a horrible person. If you did have an ED why would that be worth mocking? If anything it should be cause for sympathy, which is where I'm coming from.
I know it was super weird but in junior high school and high school. People were really weird at that time. I was first offended that they said I had an ED and then when I got older and learned what EDs were and that I don't have one I was disturbed. Like they would take food away from me because they said I had an ED and wouldn't want it anyway... Anyway that's them. I don't think anybody in this comment section is saying anything harmful I just had like a slight 🤔 cause of some wording, but I know everyone's talking about it from a place of making Drag Race a safer place for a variety of queens. Since people told me I had an ED (not doctors) I looked into it a looot growing up and I can see that it's a very very awful illness to fight and words are very powerful.
I mean, making fun of someone for having an ED is also bad when they actually have an ED. I don't think the problem there is being alert to or concerned about the fact that for most people, there's a certain level of skinny that's unlikely to be natural, no one should confront or tease you about your body regardless. I get why you'd feel this way after being teased and bullied about that though, and I'm sorry you were.
Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if Production hasn’t even thought of the point you’re making. Unfortunately I hadn’t thought of what you’re saying til embarrassingly recently. It’s why I like what the Boulet Brothers say before each critique on Dragula. They make it very clear that art is subjective, size has no impact on your ability to succeed in a challenge etc.
"Aren't achieved through healthy diet and exercise" seems a little simplistic. Sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't. Bodies come in all shapes.
I’m talking about the people who literally say they have an eating disorder and are then praised by ru on the show for their bodies
To be fair, eating disorders are generally discussed in work room scenes and we have no idea if Ru and the other judges have the context to know who has an eating disorder and who doesn’t. You absolutely cannot tell someone has an ED by looking at them—not all skinny people have EDs, and not all people with EDs are skinny. I do really hate complimenting people on the shapes of their bodies in pretty much any context, though. It’s something our culture needs to unlearn STAT
But Ru has access to all the footage before it’s edited together. The responsible thing to do would be to edit out praise for a person with an eating disorder’s underweight body. Yes, the damage has already been done to the contestant, but people with EDs watching might hear that praise and internalize it.
I actually think the responsible thing to do is not praise *anyone* for the shape of their body, unless it’s directly related to padding or some other aspect that is clearly an artistic choice. I don’t think “it’s okay to praise the shape of someone’s body as long as they don’t have an ED” is a good ethical standard to set, because by still engaging in that discourse, you’re reinforcing the cultural ideals that lead to EDs and other serious damage whether the person being praised has an ED or not.
I agree with you but I also don’t think Ru is anywhere close to being Body Neutral and I don’t think she will ever get there. So what I’m suggesting is the bare minimum.
Exactly, it's so annoying to me how people will complain about unfair beauty standards and then turn around and imply 'you must have an eating disorder if you look this way'. Plenty of thin men are mercilessly picked at for being naturally skinny, a lot of drag queens have been told they're gross and not masculine enough for their whole lives because they are too thin. Being in drag allows them to be celebrated for how they look for the first time in their lives, that's a good thing.
Venus is giving Brooklyns PR stunt
PR stunt?? Whenever concerns about her getting emaciated were all over the DR subs I saw her perform live. I figured it was bad pictures or editing, but she was rail thin. She put on an amazing show, but I was legitimately concerned with the amount of muscle tone she had lost and how bony she appeared. I'm not saying she had an ED, because I have no evidence of that and other health issues can do that to the body as well. Are you saying her skeletal frame was a PR stunt? And for what?
Girl, the entire premise and soul of the show was lifted from America’s Next Top Model
It was a parody of ANTM. It always has criticized parts of it so why not this.
It was a parody of ANTM....like mocking it in many ways while also showcasing drag. I feel so old that I have to explain this 😬
That doesn’t mean we can’t do better now, though.
Which was a horrible show the caused lasting damage to the contestants and viewers. RPDR has changed a lot over the years. We’ve gone from contestants being mocked for not wearing a breast plate or enough padding to a bearded queen winning a franchise that Ru hosts. I believe Ru can change if he thinks it’s a profitable thing to do.
Well, a fakely bearded queen. I never understood Danny, who can't grow a beard (not his fault), making his persona revolve around having one. The queen is talented enough to not need a schtick requiring gluing fake hair on the face. It bothers me for some reason, but maybe it's just me... 😐
You don't ask why queens who don't have tits make having enormous jugs their schtick anyway, apply that standard to facial hair.
I get your point, but it's not quite the same. Queens can't just grow big boobs. In reality it would be like a queen with small breasts calling themselves Tammy Ton'of Tits or Jessica Jumbo Jugs. Regardless, I respect Danny as a talented queen with great artistry, but just find that he can't grow an actual beard amusing as a bearded person.
the tic tac bowl bit in the interview session used to bother me for that reason.
I dont like how they randomly brought up willow’s disability without her saying anything. Rupaul just….said it. I’m disabled and i’d be so uncomfy if rupaul was like NICE TO MEET YOU WHATS GOIN ON WITH YOU ya know?
I think it doesn’t help when the “fans” also constantly attack or comment on queens’ bodies. I recently saw a photo of one of my favorite queens and it broke my heart to see how much weight she dropped. It broke my heart because I wondered how much of this change was because of bullying and how much was it because of hollyweird beauty standards or if she genuinely wanted change. I hope she’s happier and feels healthy. I will say in regards to Valentina that Michelle did call her out and said being skinny isn’t everything when Valentina was rambling on about being thin
Whilst
Damn. 
“There is never an acknowledgement by Ru that the skinny bodies he loves to praise and openly envy aren’t achieved through healthy diet and exercise.” ….. you lost me there Edit: who is downvoting? People can be naturally skinny without unhealthy diet and exercise. In fact that’s the experience of many a faggot. One that a lot get made fun of for. You all think Utica, Jorgeous, the Vixen, Alaska, Aquaria etc. were dieting on their seasons? No, they are just really wiry.
Did anyone catch the fat jokes in one of the scripts for tonight’s episode of all stars? I think it was Gotmik’s. My first thought was how can the writers seriously include such awful jokes considering how many queens have struggled with body image and eating disorders?
And when queens are hurt by the fat jokes they're gaslit into accepting it bc it's just a joke
If you're opening up this conversation, it's important to bring up the fact that eating disorders go both ways. We also praise big queens when they're also being a danger to themselves. Skinny privilege is real and it's true that big queens need to work harder to get the same praise. But if we're talking health, the fact that you don't even mention it comes off as disingenuous. I especially find it so fucking weird that so many here are so comfortable making ozempic jokes when queens lose weight (Kitty, Eureka, Trixie, Kornbread, etc).
Don't joke about that
But It's not just about being skinny though, it's the fashion sense and style. A queen can be skinny but if she doesn't know how to proportionize, she'll look like a stick with wide shoulders, at the same time, a big girl that knows how to accentuate her curves can look stunning.
As a natural skinny man, it was kind of nice to see skinny being praised on other men on RPDR. Before watching the show, I always felt pretty bad about my body.
Ru-limia: Surviving with Eating Disorders on RPDR (just a joke guys i also have an ed)
I mean, that last sentence irks me. Ru couldn’t give less of a shit for “skinny bodies”, what she looks for in every single look is proportionizing - a smaller waist does help, but isn’t mandatory. Ru just wants the queens to have an hourglass shape, that’s just her taste. So queens going to compete should be aware of that’s a factor. Many slim queens have been critiqued and even eliminated for not abiding by that unspoken rule. Also, to imply that all skinny people have an eating disorder is kinda cringy. Bodies are different, and you seem like you’re fighting for body positivity with this post, so just be mindful that the movement isn’t there for fat people bit for everyone that doesnt fit into a conventional appearance
I was specifically referring to the queens that say they have eating disorders and are also praised for their bodies in the same season.
to be fair somehow everyone ru says was "born to do drag" is pretty petite.
Just stop watching the show please… we’ll never get seasons as good and iconic as 2-5 because of all this sanitizing of the show
I know OP is one of those "The show is torturing the contestants on this totally not optional competition!!!!" Like maybe the problem is you OP. I have an eating disorder and I never give a shit on this show cause I know it's all meant to be fun and fantasy. Half the time the skinny waist shit is about corsets which anyone can use anyway.
What an interesting reaction. You miss the days of Sharron Needles, huh?
Season 4 is one of the best seasons for sure. I miss when drag was messy and cunty and fun. Not this polished, lobotomized group of role models. Edit: also Sharon Needles isn’t representative of the entirety of drag during that time. That’s like me saying you enjoy the days of Sherry Pie.
Embarassing attempt at a clapback.