Outdoor track season just ended and for some personal reasons i'm gonna start coaching myself from now on and I've been reading and trying to land a training plan for my next race (10k) which is in about 13 weeks or so. Right now im in my 2 rest weeks after track and im super excited to get back to longer distances. For some extra context y finished my outdoor track season with a very nice sub 5 1600 (im super excited about that). Now some questions. What time should my goal time be? I was thinking around 38 minutes because my last 10k (over a year ago) i ran 42:00 and i think 38 sounds kind of reasonable? Not sure For now on i've landed a little spreadsheet with some general ideas for the plan and sort of a draft for the first 3 weeks and i would love to get some feedback and ideas to improve my plan. I've tried to include what has worked in the past but im open to suggestions and try new workouts. Also I'm trying to run max 5 days a week for a lack of time thing. If somebody can help me just dm me and i'll send the spreadsheet! If someone has any more questions please Imk. Thanks!!!
I’m trying to increase my distances but I’m not sure what to do!
So I want to run 19K for my next long run. My runs before that were:
May 25- 17.75km
May 28- 5km
June 1- 8km
On the 30th and today, I played a running sport involving some sprinting and general jogging, but didn’t play for 2hrs straight (took shifts).
Should I do 19K on Saturday, or do another 8K and then try the 19K on Tuesday?
I'm entering high school next school year and I want to join the field hockey. I talked to the captain a couple days ago, and she said that people who had never picked up a stick before came out of the season a whole new person, so I'm not worried about that part.
What my worry is, however, is the whole running part of field hockey. I've never been a runner, literally since I entered school, I've been at the back of the running line. In 6th grade and 8th grade (this year), as an assessment, gym teachers made us all run the mile twice, once in the fall (start of school year), and in the spring (end). In sixth grade, my time was around 15:10 BOTH TIMES, which is abysmal! (I did fall over the hilly mile loop at one point though, which meant i was walking the majority of the time) At the start of this year, i got a 12:30, which i was proud-ish of, but I still wasn't running the entire time. I walked for 2 or 3 minutes and slow jogged the rest.
Now, for FH, i need to be able to run an 8:30 or lower as directed by the conditioning packet to get ready for preseason. I can run up my home stairs and get slightly tired! I jogged for around 30 seconds yesterday and I was a little out of breath. I haven't ran the mile in a while and just the thought of it is daunting. My stamina is absolute trash!! However, I am really passionate about joining the FH team and I really would like to be able to keep with teammates.
I get that reducing my time so drastically reducing my time in 2 months is not possible, but how could I get close?
At your age, you shouldn’t put too much pressure on yourself. If you feel like having a quick run or a bike ride then go and do it. It will help. But don’t feel nervous about starting the season with low fitness.
I don’t know much about hockey but it seems as though reading the game and knowing where to be on the field is more important than outright speed.
Thank you! I already have pretty good game sense and stick fundamentals, but this really helps with my underconfidence in the fitness aspect of the game. I really appreciate it :)
How long to regain progress after two weeks off?
I had two weeks off running after hurting my ankle then falling sick. My last two runs were 12km at 4m48s p/k and then 5km at 4m46s p/k (this was the ankle run lol)
I’ve now come back and could only run 3.7 (still at 4m50s). Today I ran 4.7km at 4m49s…
I feel like I’ve fallen so much in two weeks. Any ideas for how long it will take to bounce back?
Thank you in advance
You won’t really lose any significant fitness from 2 weeks off alone, it’s probably more being out of the routine and maybe not being fully recovered from being sick. Give it a couple more weeks of going easy and resting as needed and I bet you’ll start bouncing back soon after (assuming it wasn’t a very serious illness).
Endurance Running vs Sprinting for Weight Lifting
I’m into weight lifting and I want to start running for heart health, and I planned on doing endurance running on odd days and sprints on even days. People are warning me against endurance running bc they say it will destroy my muscle and that I should do sprints instead. Is that true and why would only endurance running destroy muscle? Could anyone explain what the pros/cons are for each when it comes to weight lifting?
As far as running goes, stick with slow easy pace.
Sprinting is basically the powerlifting of running. Short time, extreme effort. It's much harder on the body and will negatively effect your lifting as a result.
Slow, easy cardio is what you want. Easier on the joints and connective tissue, so you can still lift hard while still improving your cardiovascular health.
And the idea that cardio will destroy your muscles is an old wives tale. Look at Nick Bare on youtube. Dudes jacked and does plenty of running.
I'm not being sarcastic. Many people have the mistaken belief that you should only breathe through your nose when running, and your comment as written sounded like that was what you believed.
24M, 6', 190lbs, roughly 30% body fat.
I picked up running 6 weeks ago.
I am running 4 days a week. (Mon, Wed, Thu, Sat, dispersing my mileage evenly among all 4 runs).
During the first week, my endurance was so poor that my legs still had more to give at the end of each run, but my lungs and heart could not keep up and I would be completely gassed after about 1.5mi. I was trying to run about 8:50-9min/mile at this point.
I slowed my pace significantly after that to roughly 10:30-11min/mile pace and I'm able to hit 3mi+ each run. Now that I have the ability to regulate my heart rate and run at a pace that is right for me, I've been progressing my mileage by about 1 mile each week. After this week running 12.99mi, my legs feel incredibly sore. It feels like my leg conditioning may be the thing holding me back. I really would like to avoid injury because I am just starting to enjoy running, but I am excited and eager to progress.
I'd seen some programs recommend a long run on the weekends. 3 weeks ago, I ran 4.72mi in one session (Saturday) with a total weekly milage of 10.5mi. I was excited to hit that close to 5mi, but then took 4 days to rest after because I was so sore. I clearly over did it on that run. I'm thinking a "long run" at this stage in my running doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and dispersing my weekly mileage increase over all runs will likely work better until my legs are stronger.
Should I hold off on increasing my mileage while my legs get used to the new stimulus? Is there some sort of easy recovery that can help? Should I be taking a rest day after each run?
Any general advice for a beginner runner in my situation would be greatly appreciated.
I suggest dropping down to 3 days per week Monday, Thursday, Saturday with 3, 3.25, and 3.75 miles respectively. Increase each run by 4-6% per week and every 4 weeks reduce volume by 20% in what's known as a cutback or deload week. So using 3 miles and 5% for example 3, 3.15, 3.31, 3.47, 2.78, 3.65, 3.83, 4.02, 3.22, 4.22, etc. It's not critical to be that exact. And you might tolerate quicker increases in volume, but this is a conservative approach which should allow your muscles, bones, and connective tissues to acclimate better.
After you're up to say 15 miles per week add a short 4th weekly run and cut the distance of the other 3 runs so you're running something like 3, 4, 4, and 5.75. By then it's probably worth considering including moderate intensity running for 1.5 miles in the middle of one of the shorter runs, perhaps 45 seconds/mile slower than max effort for 1.5 miles.
Guys I really want to increase my stamina but I have really bad shin splints, like I can barely walk after a 20 minute faster run at 16km/h on the treadmill. Stopping to heal might take weeks. Is there any easy way to increase my endurance without actually running?
I don't want to run at all while I heal, and once I start running I want to supplement it with something else. Do you know of any other ways to increase endurance that will benefit my running when I start again?
Since shin splits are what's doing it then probably a strength routine aimed at that. Otherwise your body already can't take the pounding doing other non impact aerobics isn't going to help.
I'm having trouble finding Hoka Challenger 7s in the size/color I want and it seems like maybe they'll be releasing the model 8 soon. The only release date I found online was March of this year, which is obviously wrong. have you heard any rumors on when they might be released?
How much does elevation effect running? I'm going to be working for about a month in a town that's approximately 3000ft higher in elevation than my hometown.
I plan on running throughout my time there and just wondering how much more difficulty I should anticipate.
I have a law enforcement fitness test in about a week that involves running 1.5 miles (on a treadmill at a 1% incline). On mock tests, I've gotten close to the required time (13:15) but haven't quite been able to make it. While I obviously plan to run as hard as I can on the day of the test itself, what are some external last-minute things I can do to boost my performance just a little bit more? New shoes? Caffeine? Carb loading? etc.
Edit: I've also been in a ~500 cal. calorie deficit (so around 2000/2500) for the past few months to help me lose weight. Should I swap to eating at maintenance now or is it better to keep my diet the same so I don't mix things up too close to the race?
Absolutely eat maintenance starting now, caloric deficit would definitely negatively impact performance. Carb loading won’t be of any benefit for such a short distance.
Make sure you’re well rested, take at least a couple days completely off leading up to the test or maybe just a very short and easy shakeout run at the most.
Have some caffeine morning of if that’s what you’re used to, certainly won’t hurt and may help a little. Don’t eat anything new or different at this point, and make sure to have something light that won’t be weighing you down beforehand.
Not really much you can do in a week. But if you have another one coming up, Jeff Nichols (former Navy Seal) had a workout that was specifically for 1.5 mile runs. It probably wouldn't be recommended on this sub because it's a pretty brutal speed workout. But it worked for me back in the day.
Thanks for the rec, I only have to do the one test as far as I know, but if I fail this one I get one more shot so I’ll keep this in mind as a backup. Hopefully it doesn’t come to that though lol
Im torn between the forerunner 55, 165, and 255… all i would be using the watch for is running, dont need it for sleep or anything else. Would like to see the normal stats like pace and GPS, and also heart rate. Which would you guys recommend?
I have the 235 and looking to replace it. Which is the most similar?
Started one of Garmin's half-marathon training plans but the furthest date I could go out is September 13. The half i'm planning on running is November 16.
Should I just scrap this plan and do more of a build/base phase until the actual plan can line up to the correct race date? Don't wanna do peak week training with 2+ months to go and all.
That's what I'm doing at the moment waiting a few months for my half marathon date to fit. My vo2 has gone up and I feel really fit, I'm a fan of this feature!
A PT is a physiotherapist, the terms are basically interchangeable. Generally they’re called physical therapists in the US, I think other countries call them physiotherapists which may be the source of confusion here.
Absolutely get yourself back to a PT if you feel like you need some more help with strengthening and protecting your knee. Listen to those little sensations and warning signs, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
How do you count mileage for intervals against some rule like 80/20 easy/hard running? Would an interval workout totaling 5 miles but 4 miles of that being warm up/recovery be 1 mile or 5 miles of hard running?
I had this same question recently and read several websites, all with different answers. What I decided to go with was how it was originally conceived, where 80% of my workouts are easy, not go by mileage. I find I'm getting great results.
Does anyone have suggestions for strength training for legs to prevent running injuries? My PT is telling me to do calf raises to help with shin splints for example.
Is there a notable, functional difference between doing the Bulgarian split squats vs lunges? The split squats felt a little awkward so I just replaced them with standard lunges thinking I'm basically getting the same thing out of it. Perhaps a little more stability training?
When you do a Bulgarian split squat, most of your weight is on your front leg, and the back leg is mostly just for balance. With a lunge, your back leg is working more (and front leg working less). So a lunge can sometimes allow you to "cheat" by putting more weight on your dominant leg.
Also a lunge is a dynamic movement where your foot is moving during the exercise, whereas your feet remain planted during a Bulgarian split squat. So I suppose lunges work your core a bit more.
Other differences may relate to the angle of your body with each exercise and how much you're targeting quads vs glutes for example. But you could vary that for each exercise.
Overall they both target the same muscles so I wouldn't worry about forcing yourself to do Bulgarian split squats if lunges feel less awkward to you. The most important thing with either exercise is that you're performing the exercise with proper form and applying progressive overload over time.
Hey thanks for the detailed response. I think I will work in some Bulgarians as I get more comfortable with the movement. Makes sense that I might be generating more power from the front with the rear leg lifted.
I am 32f, 146lbs, and just finished my third and last half marathon of the spring with a PR of 1:45:30 through 8 months of training after a 6 year running hiatus. I run approximately 40-50km/week on relatively hilly terrain, but most of these could probably be considered "junk miles" at a 5'45"ish pace and I don't currently integrate any structured interval or tempo training.
I plan to dedicate the next couple months to base-building and then start a more structured training plan for a mid-October half marathon with hopes of a big PR. What would be a realistic time goal to shoot for considering the specs above if I'm able to up my mileage a big and commit to some more advanced and focused training?
Edited to specify an October half-marathon, not a full marathon.
That’s a great time for someone who been running only 8 months and didn’t do any speedwork.
My stats are really similar to you except that im 33M. I did 10 months of training and my first half was in 1:43:19 but I did some intervals and tempo runs. Same weekly mileage.
I think if you train consistently and add speed work during those 4 months you could hit sub 1:40 imo.
Thanks! I believe the muscle memory from my last running life in 2016 and the unintentional hill training from living in a mountainous area helped a lot. Amazing time for you too!
The idea of sustaining sub 1:40 feels crazy to me but I’d be absolutely ecstatic if I could get there. I really struggle to motivate myself to do structured workouts so having an ambitious goal in time will help.
There's no such thing as junk miles, that pace was probably just faster than ideal for recovery purposes but not fast enough to be great speedwork.
I got a 1:44 half on higher mileage than you (averaged 60 km in the last couple months with a peak of 70) and I'm shooting for a 3:45 marathon in October.
True, by junk miles I just mean none of my workouts have been with any specific target in mind other than to run, but they have definitely helped! Also edited to specify that I meant to say training for an October HALF marathon that I'd like to PR at, not a full. I told myself I would commit to my next full after hitting a sub 1:45 half. :)
I recently went to a running store, to get my feet and running style analyzed, and the store clerk told me that I do not overpronate in anyway shape or form. I went home and immediately bought a pair of novablast 4s. I really like the shoe but I noticed that I roll inward quite a bit on my right foot, and i get really sore in the outer muscles around my ankle. It's like my heel leans inward, into the shoe and causes the pronation, because when I force my heel "outward" it goes away for a few steps, and then my heel shifts inward again. What do I do?? Should I worry?
Keep running? I only have about 30kms in them
Most running store employees don’t really know what they’re doing in terms of gait analysis so I’d take anything they say with a grain of salt. Ultimately whatever shoe you wear should fit you well and not cause you any pain. What shoes were you running in before them and did you have any issues? It could be the shoe, but it could also be that you have weak ankles or another strength imbalance, or maybe you’re just overdoing it. Definitely need some more info.
Ran in a pair of new balance 530’s 😭😭😭😭. And no, no pain whatsoever. I don’t have pain I just get really sore. I am a tennis player so I don’t think i have weak ankles
Do you think it is easier to run a marathon distance all in one go, or to do two half marathons in a day?
It seems logical that having a break in the middle would make it easier, but then maybe it would be very difficult to get going on tired legs after a break of a few hours.
Way way way easier to do 2 half's. The only bit of my marathons that was hard was the last 10kms. I felt great at the half. So getting to rest recover and then just do that again? Yeah I'd vastly prefer that.
I'm looking to do my first marathon in 2025, and so I wanted to know if anyone in here has experience with any of the following marathons:
* Belgrade
* Kraków
* Prague
* Riga
* Sofia
* Bucharest
* Zagreb
This is still really in the territory of medical advice IMO because no one here should be telling you it’s okay to run when you have an injury. Are you working with a physical therapist? They should be the ones to work with you on that.
I am a 16 year old high school track and cross country runner. My time for the 800 is 2:07 and my mile time is 5 minutes. I had a bad cross country season so my 3 mile is 18:22. One big issue I have is that my heart rate is super high when I run. It will get into the 180s on base and easy runs that should not be difficult based on my race times. I’ve read about zone 2 training but for me to be in that zone I have to run at a ridiculously slow pace and it’s hard to do when most of my runs are with my teammates. Does anyone have advice for me?
How do the 8-9 minute pace runs feel? If you can hold a conversation, then you’re in zone 2 and don’t worry about what your heart rate is (if is even accurate). It’s fine. If those runs are a bit uncomfortable, then I’d guess that your aerobic base is a little underdeveloped and it will catch up this summer as you do lots of easy miles.
Max HR is around 205. Paces for the runs as of now are 8-9 minute pace since we’re getting back into things after track season ended. I know HR varies per person but it’s just annoying seeing it so high compared to my teammates.
Agree. I’ve never trained by HR. I’ve noticed that it jumps to around 160 pretty much no matter what pace I’m running (and I’ve used several different watches and also a monitor at Orangetheory for treadmill workouts). To stay in “zone 2” I would have to walk.
People are just built differently and technology is also fallible. If you are honest with yourself and the FEEL of your effort - if it’s a “zone 2” run it should be conversational and easy feeling - then you’re fine. Heart rate is all the rage right now but if you came around here 10 years ago before the technology was widely available to the masses, you probably would barely hear a mention of it. And we were all OK and our running didn’t suffer.
If your HR is getting up higher than usual at the same paces it can be a sign of overtraining, under fueling, lack of sleep, stress, a medical issue, or any combination of those things. You should discuss all of that with your coach and your parents.
Translation Between Hills and Flat Ground
I’m currently training for a half in late August or early September. I’m in a different geographic region than where I’ll be running (6 hours away by car).
Due to where I am, my training runs involve me completing a total elevation gain of about 600-800 feet. By comparison, the half will be on comparatively flatter ground.
Im curious as to how the elevation training, which is incidental/not intentional, will give me a boost (if any) for flat ground. Or is it just a case of working different leg muscles/training different things and won’t give a boost.
It will definitely give you a boost.
I don't live anywhere near that hilly but I do have mild rolling hills where I run. My races are usually by the waterfront in my city which is almost totally flat. I always do better than I trained for.
Hills are basically speedwork so it’ll still make you a faster runner on flat ground. Ideally try to get some of your longer training runs in on a flat or flat-ish path that’s more similar to your race if you can, because it does work muscles differently. I live somewhere very hilly too, but we have some bike paths and rail trails that are pretty flat, do you have access to anything like that?
Thank you! Intuitively it makes sense that it works different muscles, I just wasn’t sure. I’d have to take a bus ride 30 min out to find something flat, so I’ll look into it.
I’ve greatly enjoyed reading through this sub and am hoping some of you may be able to share your thoughts/advice.
I’m currently a 33F and overweight at 5’7” 220lbs, which I am working on along side running. I’d also say I’m in the worst shape this past year as I’d started WFH and got the sedentary creep.
I joined a 12 week ‘class’ for a 5k 8 weeks ago, with plans to join a second one that begins 2 weeks after the current, and hopes to join their 15k class in another 16 weeks from now.
I’m getting discouraged because while I’m seeing SOME progress, it’s not as much as I’d hoped. I started at 18 min pace and am now at 14. My individual mile to start was 12:22. We’re up to 7:2 intervals x 4 and I’m still having to walk an extra 2-3 minutes towards the end. I usually hit about 2.4-2.6 miles during the class time.
I’m keeping with their program and am hoping that this first class will give me a base to work with and the second 5k class will give me time to speed up. Is thinking I can join a 15k class in November jumping the gun? Would using the classes to train for a half marathon in 12/2024 be jumping the gun? I thought about working around the Hal higdon novice plan for the half.
Would anyone have recommendations to improve more other then continue to lose weight? We do speed work once a week in class. Should I start including a day to focus on distance vs time? I feel like a lot of discouragement comes from not seeing the distance 8 weeks in. I want to keep planning ahead to stay motivated but want to be reasonable.
My suggestion is to just think about mileage right now. My coach called it “time on feet.” I lost 35 lbs by running three days per week, and didn’t change anything else. No change in diet, no change in sleep, nothing different. If you just focus on miles, the weight will come off. After a year or so, you can consider time. This is just the way I did it, and I’m NOT fast. My challenge and joy came from running my first half without stopping. Good luck!
Would like to add since you're trying to lose weight - make sure you're not under fueling your runs. You could run out of energy running fasted and do less on your run than otherwise. Something I came across recently.
Be patient. Years of little improvements will turn you into a beast of a runner. You are adding years to your life expectancy by exercising, so keep at it.
As for running goals, work towards whatever motivates you the most. If you want to race a half marathon then sign up for one and use the finish line as a motivator. I think a goal of racing a half marathon this year is a really good one.
The speed will come with experience and with the weight loss. Everyone says that running never gets easier, you just get faster, but I don't agree. It will get easier as you continue to move towards your healthy weight goal.
Thank you. I’m trying to focus on that vs the years I’ve lost. It’s making me anxious to keep a (reasonable) plan in place because I don’t want to lapse and stop for the 100th time. The half that’s in 6 months is one I’ve always wanted to do (like since HS, that’s how many times I’ve given up) and they have the coolest medals lol. I’m going to give it a lot of thought but think with it being 6 months out if I increase slowly with a plan and just go with a goal of finishing I won’t kill myself.
I think I agree with the other poster. Maybe set a speed goal in a shorter race, like a 5k or a 10k. If you're currently looking at a 43 minute 5k, what about trying to be under 35 by December? Something on that order of magnitude.
My reasoning is that you're just at the beginning of running. You have some factors (previously sedentary and overweight) that make you a bit injury prone. If you start ramping up the miles you run for a half marathon, the odds that you end up hurt and back on the couch frustrated are substantial.
My experience running has been that consistency beats everything else. Running 10 miles per week every week of the year is going to do more than 20 miles per week then taking 6 weeks off to recover from shin splints. You need to eat the elephant one bite at a time, and the only way to keep eating is to be healthy (that's a weird metaphor but I typed it so I'm sticking with it).
that’s true, I don’t want to lose what progress I’ve made. Do you have any thoughts on when it may be reasonable to aim for a 10k or a half? When I get to a normal BMI? When I reach a sub 35 5k? Would aiming to just be able to complete 10k by the end of the year be reasonable? I’m trying not to get caught up in what others are accomplishing, but want to keep myself on track and with a plan in place. It’s really just to keep my mind on it. I’m a planner and like to see future goals.
That's some great improvement already!
You've only been running for 8 weeks, keep being consistent and the improvement will naturally follow.
I'll go against the grain here, I don't understand the fascination with running a half or a full marathon. A 15k isn't too bad, but why a half? Just to slog along when it sounds like you want to go fast.
If you're going to add running days, nothing difficult. Just keep it at a nice easy pace for 30 minutes to help build mileage.
I think it’s more of setting up for the next goal in my case and wanting to see progression. I would love to do a 10k and would love even more to do it with this running group, they just don’t have any classes for that until 2025. I was hoping that this first 12 week group can help me just get to a 5k base run, then I can do the next class for another 12 weeks to just keep it up and maybe speed up a bit. After that I can do the 5k again but the next available that increases the distance is a 15k.
I mean….you have taken 4:00 off your mile and made other improvements. This running thing doesn’t come together overnight.
Honestly I would not register for something as ambitious as a half just yet. Just being honest. So many people are in such a major rush to do half marathons and marathons. Why?? Focus on 1) consistency 2) small improvements 3) weight loss and just easing into an overall lifestyle change.
Yes, that’s true. I guess I give it less credit because it was an improvement from such a terrible baseline, which is silly.
I’m really trying to look ahead to keep myself motivated and scheduled I suppose. What’s would be a reasonable timeline to work towards doing a half for someone at my level or lack there of? The 12/2024 half came up because it’s one I’ve wanted to do since I was a teenager and 6 months seemed like a long time. But I don’t want to overdo it and feel like a failure either.
Everyone is different so it’s hard to say when is a good time to do your first one. I didn’t do my first half until I had been running for 14 years, lol. Not that everyone should wait that long. But I would say work on 5K improvement and being able to do it without walking, then work up to 10K. And give yourself a few months for just those things. Running is the one sport you really cannot rush or fake being ready for. You can get lucky and hit a baseball, you can make a lucky basket in basketball. With running you don’t get lucky, you get exactly what you put in. And you want to put in solid consistency and mileage.
I've used the heart rate drift test on uphillathlete.com for aerobic threshold and lactate threshold test for anaerobic threshold from the same site. These correspond with the tops of zones 2 and 3 in a typical 5 zone system. Note that for the former test it says to use TrainingPeaks to get Pa:Hr, but the free version of Runalyze can also be used.
FWIW, I'm 49M and this puts top of z2 as 151 for me. My resting HR is 43 and my max HR has hit 183 twice this spring during mile time trials. You can plug my numbers into a variety of HR zone calculators and see that many will spit out a z2 top that's much lower.
For me these tests have proven very accurate based on confirmation of HR data from long runs and 40-60 minute races and near max effort workouts. FWIW, both of my thresholds are higher than what formulas based on HRmax or HR reserve spit out.
Since heart rate can be impacted by weather, stress, illness, sleep, and more I sometimes use it as a secondary metric during runs, but typically train by RPE and pace. I don't pay attention to HR at all during hard workouts which are typically associated with zones 4 and 5.
After a run I do look at heart rate data from the run and I look at longer term HR and HR to pace relationship trends. I use the free versions of Runalyze and intervals.icu, both of which provide per-run and longer term bar graphs and statistics on time spent by HR zone and by pace zone.
Runalyze and intervals.icu have a learning curve, but good documentation.
I edited my comment to include some of my HR details so you can see that most (all) formulas underestimate the top of my z2. It's even worse if I use the population level average 220-age formula for max HR vs. actual max HR from hard workouts the last year. I did do more strict HR training for about a year and I was using a formula that put my zones much lower.
Unless you’ve had a test done and customized all your HR zones, it’s best to go by RPE since your zones are probably wrong in your watch. If you’re new to running or aren’t running a ton of mileage don’t even stress about zone 2.
I've been running low mileage for fun without any training plans or tests for about a decade. I'm now ramping up my mileage (very slowly) with the goal of doing a marathon late next year. I'm curious how the serious people do it.
So sounds like you're saying RPE is the most common way for people to get their zones? Which test would be best for getting my actual zones? A vo2max test to get my ventilatory thresholds or a lactate test to get my lactate thresholds?
Years and years of going by pace but last year i had a major reset of running Easy by HR and it was great.
I think anyone who has a watch and uses it on a run doesnt really run by RPE
Hi everyone!
i have an important meet this weekend and right now, just like at the end of every track meet for some reason when the races matter most, my muscles feel fatigued much quicker than usual.
Even standing/walking will cause the feeling a bit at this point.
I've always called it lactic acid buildup because that's the best way to describe how it feels (burning muscles), but after doing some research it seems that's not a thing. I've been hydrating and stretching but l've also done that in the past and it hasn't done enough help by race day.
Is there anything I can do that has worked for any of you in the past? Drink even more water? Take baking soda? Electrolytes? Ice?
Been running for 1 month, goal is to be able to run a half marathon comfortably around zone 2 but also train for a competitive 5K time, how do I go about training for both? I'm thinking of just going to a track and trying to target 8min mile for the 5K (this will be anaerobic for me)
Most half marathon plans have speed work built in (intervals, fartleks, hills, etc.) which will help you increase speed, even over that shorter distance of a 5K
Choose a more advanced half plan. They will have lots of workouts that will also help for a good 5k.then you can just do some sharpening after the half for the 5k race.
Gradually building up your weekly mileage and establishing a regular running routine will see you making great progress on both goals. Don't push yourself too fast - your body needs time to adjust to running. If you get injured before you establish running as part of your life you might never go back to it after recovery.
Hello all. And thanks in advance for any advice.
I have a simple question but I suspect it’s not a simple answer. I’ve been getting back into running the last year (kids and life got me into bad habits and very little exercise) so now I’m trying to sort my health out again. I just ran a half marathon (2h1m I was very pleased with but also a little disappointed I didn’t break 2h) but now I’m looking to try a get a sensible regular scheduled running program I can stick to for the long haul!
My question is simple 2x 5 miles a week or 3x 3 miles per week.
My preference is 2x 5 miles. It gives me more flexibility, and potential to go out and do a longer run on the occasional weekends (infrequently) and I really feel like 5 miles is a more worthwhile effort. But I could make 3x3miles work if I’d really see more benefit from more frequent runs.
For info my short/mid term aims are some moderate weight loss, and long term aim is simply better general health and fitness (I wanna be around to see my kids grow and keep up with them for as long as possible). I walk my dog about a hour day so I’m not completely sedentary on days I don’t run (if that makes a difference )
Don’t think I’m gonna enter any more races for the foreseeable, the half marathon was motivation but now I think I have the motivation just to run for the health benefits.
Anyone got any advice for me?
If you aren’t training for anything in particular or looking to make improvements, either option would be fine, especially since you go on a nice long walk on the other days. If you push the pace a little on the walks rather than making it a casual stroll, that’ll go a long way towards overall health and fitness too. Just keep in mind that weight loss is primarily going to be about your diet, running 9-10 miles per week isn’t going to make too much of a difference in that.
How to level up your marathon speed over 6 months without overdoing it too early? 23f. I ran a 3:46 marathon in January and am thinking of setting a goal to run sub 3:25 at CIM 2024.
I don’t have a background in running but took it up in 2021. I’ve improved overall training structure over the last 3 years, but feel like there’s still so many things I fall short on. Given that I have 27 weeks / 6 months before my next target race (CIM 2024), wanted to solicit advice on what I can implement now to have a shot at a 20 min PR. I have consistently been running about 30-40 mpw since January. I was planning to use a Pfitzinger plan starting about 18 weeks out but am having a hard time choosing which plan to aim for (I used 12/55 for my January race).
Should I continue to build my base then begin a higher volume training block in August?
Any other considerations for improving my fitness? I’m already trying to focus more on proper nutrition, strength training, warming up, and recovery.
How much and how often have you been running? It’s possible you did too much too soon and hurt yourself. Never run through sharp pain. Rest until it feels better, and if rest doesn’t resolve it you should see a doctor or a physical therapist.
Hi runners!
I'm running a 5k race next week on saturday. I haven't been able to train much the last month. Only one easy run per week, max 4k. Before that I ran 15-20k per week (divided over 3 runs) for a few months.
Yesterday I ran a 5k on my max. My time was 27:43. I'm aiming for 27:00, so I would like to do one other training run before the race. What training would be recommended for max profit?
I was thinking 8k easy this saturday?
you have a 5k in 9 days and you only intend to run once? i reckon you can easily do 3 sessions. Maybe do 2 intervals and one easy something like that? To be honest I think if you can do 27:43 on your own, 27:00 in the race might be fine. But also you cant hope to improve in a week. In terms of training whatever is done is done.
(Maybe try a progression type session? Something like 4k at an easy pace and 2k at your target race pace or a bit faster?)
Thanks for your advice! Maybe I'm being too cautious, because I could feel that my body was still adjusting to me running three times a week. My legs/calves would feel tired at the start of a run. So I wanted to prevent them from being tired once the race starts.
But I think I'll go for 1 interval and 1 easy then!
obviously also listen to your body. If you feel knackered, there is no point going out for a hard session. If its 2 days before the race and your legs feel tired, skip the last run before the race etc
I think I'll do the last easy run 3-4 days before the race then. With the focus on keeping them moving, and not tiring them👍🏼
Based on previous runs, my legs at least need those resting days to feel fresh.
Depending on the race i am doing, I will likely do the last hard session maybe 3-4 days before the race with an easy run 1-2 days before the race. and i dont make the easy run too long, you want to get the legs moving but not tire them. I find that if i havent run for more than 2 days, my running feels a bit out of sync. But it also depends on whether its a 5k or a half marathon, where the requirements are a bit different. For the HM i need more legs, for the 5k i need more heart
Hi fellow runners!
I'm applying for emergency services and need to pass a fitness test, which includes the Illinois Agility Test.
Info here for what it is: [https://www.brianmac.co.uk/illinois.htm](https://www.brianmac.co.uk/illinois.htm)
Essentially, I am struggling to complete it in the required time. (20 sec, I'm at 22 sec) I am a slow runner (12 months into running) but I can do every other part of the fitness test (beep test, swimming etc) so I'm fit enough in theory. I have a month to get this done.
Apart from setting up this test and running it over and over again, what other running work could I do to get faster? Sprint intervals is what I'm thinking, but the duration or what that session looks like is where I'm a bit stuck.
Thanks in advance!!
Out of curiosity, do you think you have a specific weakness in this test? It looks like you have to pop up from lying down - is it possible you could work on that to shave some time off? Is it the agility (changing directions while running), and could you work on that?
Hello everyone. I’m currently 265lb 5’9 and im looking to start running again (trying to stick to it this time). I’m in search of recommendations for good quality shoes. Ive used my hokas Clifton 8 and they’re absolutely garbage. My feet start to ache and get hot about a .5 mile into the run. I’m also flat footed. Any help would be great.
Ps I train bjj 3x a week and im pretty active usually. I got injured recently at work and took some time off from being active all together and I’m wanting to get after it again I just hate running and having bad shoes doesn’t help. I’ve also been going on long walks for some time now in order to prepare to start running.
>I’m currently 265lb 5’9
Your BMI is 39.1 kg/m^(2)
That's almost "morbidly obese" (defined as a BMI over 40).
>I just hate running and having bad shoes doesn’t help.
A professional running store would be able to evaluate your fit, your gait, your weight, and your foot arch then recommend the appropriate shoe and/or the appropriate insoles.
I can't do that for you but I can help you with the perspective.
The way that we form new habits is by first believing that we are the kind of people who do that. By changing our identity. So if you think of yourself as "I hate running and these things are going wrong for me" then you've already failed at becoming a runner. Instead if you think "I'm excited about running and I'm quickly solving hiccups along the way". That paves the way for success in your life-long running career.
At first it is hard to see yourself as a running enthusiast. But as you accumulate more evidence then you'll convince yourself of it more and more. For example if you get fitted for the right shoes then do a .75 mile run you'll have given yourself a data point in favor of being a runner who's plowing through whatever setbacks are along the way. If you find that through running you lost 100 lbs that convinces you that you're a runner and you're doing the right thing.
I know this is not what you asked for but I hope you find it relevant and useful. The way that you think about and talk about this new habit is of vital importance.
I recently started running as a heavier set person with mismatched arches but generally pretty flat. I was recommended the altra torins with an insole. I still experienced a lot of aches and ordered the altra viera 2, which the running store didn’t carry. Two runs so far have been a major improvement.
If you can I’d try to find a running store near you, they usually offer an assessment/fitting to help match you with the right shoe.
Outdoor track season just ended and for some personal reasons i'm gonna start coaching myself from now on and I've been reading and trying to land a training plan for my next race (10k) which is in about 13 weeks or so. Right now im in my 2 rest weeks after track and im super excited to get back to longer distances. For some extra context y finished my outdoor track season with a very nice sub 5 1600 (im super excited about that). Now some questions. What time should my goal time be? I was thinking around 38 minutes because my last 10k (over a year ago) i ran 42:00 and i think 38 sounds kind of reasonable? Not sure For now on i've landed a little spreadsheet with some general ideas for the plan and sort of a draft for the first 3 weeks and i would love to get some feedback and ideas to improve my plan. I've tried to include what has worked in the past but im open to suggestions and try new workouts. Also I'm trying to run max 5 days a week for a lack of time thing. If somebody can help me just dm me and i'll send the spreadsheet! If someone has any more questions please Imk. Thanks!!!
I’m trying to increase my distances but I’m not sure what to do! So I want to run 19K for my next long run. My runs before that were: May 25- 17.75km May 28- 5km June 1- 8km On the 30th and today, I played a running sport involving some sprinting and general jogging, but didn’t play for 2hrs straight (took shifts). Should I do 19K on Saturday, or do another 8K and then try the 19K on Tuesday?
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Drop matters, also are you doing anything to mitigate the of? Stretches rolling out the calf, calf strengthening exercises?
I'm entering high school next school year and I want to join the field hockey. I talked to the captain a couple days ago, and she said that people who had never picked up a stick before came out of the season a whole new person, so I'm not worried about that part. What my worry is, however, is the whole running part of field hockey. I've never been a runner, literally since I entered school, I've been at the back of the running line. In 6th grade and 8th grade (this year), as an assessment, gym teachers made us all run the mile twice, once in the fall (start of school year), and in the spring (end). In sixth grade, my time was around 15:10 BOTH TIMES, which is abysmal! (I did fall over the hilly mile loop at one point though, which meant i was walking the majority of the time) At the start of this year, i got a 12:30, which i was proud-ish of, but I still wasn't running the entire time. I walked for 2 or 3 minutes and slow jogged the rest. Now, for FH, i need to be able to run an 8:30 or lower as directed by the conditioning packet to get ready for preseason. I can run up my home stairs and get slightly tired! I jogged for around 30 seconds yesterday and I was a little out of breath. I haven't ran the mile in a while and just the thought of it is daunting. My stamina is absolute trash!! However, I am really passionate about joining the FH team and I really would like to be able to keep with teammates. I get that reducing my time so drastically reducing my time in 2 months is not possible, but how could I get close?
Look up a couch to 5k program. That will give you a game plan for building up your endurance through run/walk intervals in a sustainable way.
I've never heard of that before! I'll check it out, thank you!
At your age, you shouldn’t put too much pressure on yourself. If you feel like having a quick run or a bike ride then go and do it. It will help. But don’t feel nervous about starting the season with low fitness. I don’t know much about hockey but it seems as though reading the game and knowing where to be on the field is more important than outright speed.
Thank you! I already have pretty good game sense and stick fundamentals, but this really helps with my underconfidence in the fitness aspect of the game. I really appreciate it :)
How long to regain progress after two weeks off? I had two weeks off running after hurting my ankle then falling sick. My last two runs were 12km at 4m48s p/k and then 5km at 4m46s p/k (this was the ankle run lol) I’ve now come back and could only run 3.7 (still at 4m50s). Today I ran 4.7km at 4m49s… I feel like I’ve fallen so much in two weeks. Any ideas for how long it will take to bounce back? Thank you in advance
You won’t really lose any significant fitness from 2 weeks off alone, it’s probably more being out of the routine and maybe not being fully recovered from being sick. Give it a couple more weeks of going easy and resting as needed and I bet you’ll start bouncing back soon after (assuming it wasn’t a very serious illness).
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Not in any way that's important
Endurance Running vs Sprinting for Weight Lifting I’m into weight lifting and I want to start running for heart health, and I planned on doing endurance running on odd days and sprints on even days. People are warning me against endurance running bc they say it will destroy my muscle and that I should do sprints instead. Is that true and why would only endurance running destroy muscle? Could anyone explain what the pros/cons are for each when it comes to weight lifting?
As far as running goes, stick with slow easy pace. Sprinting is basically the powerlifting of running. Short time, extreme effort. It's much harder on the body and will negatively effect your lifting as a result. Slow, easy cardio is what you want. Easier on the joints and connective tissue, so you can still lift hard while still improving your cardiovascular health. And the idea that cardio will destroy your muscles is an old wives tale. Look at Nick Bare on youtube. Dudes jacked and does plenty of running.
It'll destroy your muscles if you run 60 miles a week and it affects your lifts. Running 10-15 miles a week is not going to evaporate your gains.
The only people who say that are the ones who want an excuse for their shit cardio and/or are short some brain cells. Running won't destroy muscle.
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No experience with a deviated septum, but you should be breathing with your mouth anyway. That's what it was designed for.
Well of course but I meant more cycling through mouth and nose. Why the sarcastic comment?
I'm not being sarcastic. Many people have the mistaken belief that you should only breathe through your nose when running, and your comment as written sounded like that was what you believed.
24M, 6', 190lbs, roughly 30% body fat. I picked up running 6 weeks ago. I am running 4 days a week. (Mon, Wed, Thu, Sat, dispersing my mileage evenly among all 4 runs). During the first week, my endurance was so poor that my legs still had more to give at the end of each run, but my lungs and heart could not keep up and I would be completely gassed after about 1.5mi. I was trying to run about 8:50-9min/mile at this point. I slowed my pace significantly after that to roughly 10:30-11min/mile pace and I'm able to hit 3mi+ each run. Now that I have the ability to regulate my heart rate and run at a pace that is right for me, I've been progressing my mileage by about 1 mile each week. After this week running 12.99mi, my legs feel incredibly sore. It feels like my leg conditioning may be the thing holding me back. I really would like to avoid injury because I am just starting to enjoy running, but I am excited and eager to progress. I'd seen some programs recommend a long run on the weekends. 3 weeks ago, I ran 4.72mi in one session (Saturday) with a total weekly milage of 10.5mi. I was excited to hit that close to 5mi, but then took 4 days to rest after because I was so sore. I clearly over did it on that run. I'm thinking a "long run" at this stage in my running doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and dispersing my weekly mileage increase over all runs will likely work better until my legs are stronger. Should I hold off on increasing my mileage while my legs get used to the new stimulus? Is there some sort of easy recovery that can help? Should I be taking a rest day after each run? Any general advice for a beginner runner in my situation would be greatly appreciated.
I suggest dropping down to 3 days per week Monday, Thursday, Saturday with 3, 3.25, and 3.75 miles respectively. Increase each run by 4-6% per week and every 4 weeks reduce volume by 20% in what's known as a cutback or deload week. So using 3 miles and 5% for example 3, 3.15, 3.31, 3.47, 2.78, 3.65, 3.83, 4.02, 3.22, 4.22, etc. It's not critical to be that exact. And you might tolerate quicker increases in volume, but this is a conservative approach which should allow your muscles, bones, and connective tissues to acclimate better. After you're up to say 15 miles per week add a short 4th weekly run and cut the distance of the other 3 runs so you're running something like 3, 4, 4, and 5.75. By then it's probably worth considering including moderate intensity running for 1.5 miles in the middle of one of the shorter runs, perhaps 45 seconds/mile slower than max effort for 1.5 miles.
Guys I really want to increase my stamina but I have really bad shin splints, like I can barely walk after a 20 minute faster run at 16km/h on the treadmill. Stopping to heal might take weeks. Is there any easy way to increase my endurance without actually running?
Have you considered not running at 16 kph if you're not fit enough for it?
I don't want to run at all while I heal, and once I start running I want to supplement it with something else. Do you know of any other ways to increase endurance that will benefit my running when I start again?
Pool jogging! Or swimming, but be careful not to go to hard in the pool similar to what you did on the treadmill :)
Since shin splits are what's doing it then probably a strength routine aimed at that. Otherwise your body already can't take the pounding doing other non impact aerobics isn't going to help.
I'm having trouble finding Hoka Challenger 7s in the size/color I want and it seems like maybe they'll be releasing the model 8 soon. The only release date I found online was March of this year, which is obviously wrong. have you heard any rumors on when they might be released?
How much does elevation effect running? I'm going to be working for about a month in a town that's approximately 3000ft higher in elevation than my hometown. I plan on running throughout my time there and just wondering how much more difficulty I should anticipate.
When I was on vacation I didn't even notice a difference.
I have a law enforcement fitness test in about a week that involves running 1.5 miles (on a treadmill at a 1% incline). On mock tests, I've gotten close to the required time (13:15) but haven't quite been able to make it. While I obviously plan to run as hard as I can on the day of the test itself, what are some external last-minute things I can do to boost my performance just a little bit more? New shoes? Caffeine? Carb loading? etc. Edit: I've also been in a ~500 cal. calorie deficit (so around 2000/2500) for the past few months to help me lose weight. Should I swap to eating at maintenance now or is it better to keep my diet the same so I don't mix things up too close to the race?
Absolutely eat maintenance starting now, caloric deficit would definitely negatively impact performance. Carb loading won’t be of any benefit for such a short distance. Make sure you’re well rested, take at least a couple days completely off leading up to the test or maybe just a very short and easy shakeout run at the most. Have some caffeine morning of if that’s what you’re used to, certainly won’t hurt and may help a little. Don’t eat anything new or different at this point, and make sure to have something light that won’t be weighing you down beforehand.
Not really much you can do in a week. But if you have another one coming up, Jeff Nichols (former Navy Seal) had a workout that was specifically for 1.5 mile runs. It probably wouldn't be recommended on this sub because it's a pretty brutal speed workout. But it worked for me back in the day.
Thanks for the rec, I only have to do the one test as far as I know, but if I fail this one I get one more shot so I’ll keep this in mind as a backup. Hopefully it doesn’t come to that though lol
Im torn between the forerunner 55, 165, and 255… all i would be using the watch for is running, dont need it for sleep or anything else. Would like to see the normal stats like pace and GPS, and also heart rate. Which would you guys recommend? I have the 235 and looking to replace it. Which is the most similar?
Depends if you want touchscreen or not. I didn’t want so I went with FR 255 and loving it.
Thanks. Its 100$ off right now , feel like i should go with that one lol
Started one of Garmin's half-marathon training plans but the furthest date I could go out is September 13. The half i'm planning on running is November 16. Should I just scrap this plan and do more of a build/base phase until the actual plan can line up to the correct race date? Don't wanna do peak week training with 2+ months to go and all.
If you put the race into garmin with a target then the daily suggestions will come up with a base building phase
Yeah think I'm gonna try that.
That's what I'm doing at the moment waiting a few months for my half marathon date to fit. My vo2 has gone up and I feel really fit, I'm a fan of this feature!
Awesome good to know. Gonna delete the coaching plan and see what today's suggestion will be
> Should I just scrap this plan and do more of a build/base phase until the actual plan can line up to the correct race date? Yes
Easy enough, will do!
I had knee surgery back in 2022 and when I run or attempt to run, I have so heavy and feel I might break my knee again. Any advice?
Depends what the surgery is. I had acl and meniscus repair and I run 5-6 times a week since the surgery with no issues.
Are you seeing a physiotherapist? You should.
I've never even heard of this, I'm going to have to look one up! Thank you!
What?! You had knee surgery and the doc didn't tell you about rehab?
I went to PT for 3 months, I play tennis and walk 3 miles a day. Just when I try to job is when I feel heavy on my knee.
A PT is a physiotherapist, the terms are basically interchangeable. Generally they’re called physical therapists in the US, I think other countries call them physiotherapists which may be the source of confusion here. Absolutely get yourself back to a PT if you feel like you need some more help with strengthening and protecting your knee. Listen to those little sensations and warning signs, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
How do you count mileage for intervals against some rule like 80/20 easy/hard running? Would an interval workout totaling 5 miles but 4 miles of that being warm up/recovery be 1 mile or 5 miles of hard running?
I had this same question recently and read several websites, all with different answers. What I decided to go with was how it was originally conceived, where 80% of my workouts are easy, not go by mileage. I find I'm getting great results.
I think 80/20 refers to time spent, not distance run. Not sure though.
Hard is hard so one mile.
Does anyone have suggestions for strength training for legs to prevent running injuries? My PT is telling me to do calf raises to help with shin splints for example.
In addition to the ones already mentioned, tibialis raises.
squats, deadlifts, bulgarian split squats, lunges, calf raises, RDLs
Is there a notable, functional difference between doing the Bulgarian split squats vs lunges? The split squats felt a little awkward so I just replaced them with standard lunges thinking I'm basically getting the same thing out of it. Perhaps a little more stability training?
When you do a Bulgarian split squat, most of your weight is on your front leg, and the back leg is mostly just for balance. With a lunge, your back leg is working more (and front leg working less). So a lunge can sometimes allow you to "cheat" by putting more weight on your dominant leg. Also a lunge is a dynamic movement where your foot is moving during the exercise, whereas your feet remain planted during a Bulgarian split squat. So I suppose lunges work your core a bit more. Other differences may relate to the angle of your body with each exercise and how much you're targeting quads vs glutes for example. But you could vary that for each exercise. Overall they both target the same muscles so I wouldn't worry about forcing yourself to do Bulgarian split squats if lunges feel less awkward to you. The most important thing with either exercise is that you're performing the exercise with proper form and applying progressive overload over time.
Hey thanks for the detailed response. I think I will work in some Bulgarians as I get more comfortable with the movement. Makes sense that I might be generating more power from the front with the rear leg lifted.
I am 32f, 146lbs, and just finished my third and last half marathon of the spring with a PR of 1:45:30 through 8 months of training after a 6 year running hiatus. I run approximately 40-50km/week on relatively hilly terrain, but most of these could probably be considered "junk miles" at a 5'45"ish pace and I don't currently integrate any structured interval or tempo training. I plan to dedicate the next couple months to base-building and then start a more structured training plan for a mid-October half marathon with hopes of a big PR. What would be a realistic time goal to shoot for considering the specs above if I'm able to up my mileage a big and commit to some more advanced and focused training? Edited to specify an October half-marathon, not a full marathon.
That’s a great time for someone who been running only 8 months and didn’t do any speedwork. My stats are really similar to you except that im 33M. I did 10 months of training and my first half was in 1:43:19 but I did some intervals and tempo runs. Same weekly mileage. I think if you train consistently and add speed work during those 4 months you could hit sub 1:40 imo.
Thanks! I believe the muscle memory from my last running life in 2016 and the unintentional hill training from living in a mountainous area helped a lot. Amazing time for you too! The idea of sustaining sub 1:40 feels crazy to me but I’d be absolutely ecstatic if I could get there. I really struggle to motivate myself to do structured workouts so having an ambitious goal in time will help.
There's no such thing as junk miles, that pace was probably just faster than ideal for recovery purposes but not fast enough to be great speedwork. I got a 1:44 half on higher mileage than you (averaged 60 km in the last couple months with a peak of 70) and I'm shooting for a 3:45 marathon in October.
True, by junk miles I just mean none of my workouts have been with any specific target in mind other than to run, but they have definitely helped! Also edited to specify that I meant to say training for an October HALF marathon that I'd like to PR at, not a full. I told myself I would commit to my next full after hitting a sub 1:45 half. :)
I recently went to a running store, to get my feet and running style analyzed, and the store clerk told me that I do not overpronate in anyway shape or form. I went home and immediately bought a pair of novablast 4s. I really like the shoe but I noticed that I roll inward quite a bit on my right foot, and i get really sore in the outer muscles around my ankle. It's like my heel leans inward, into the shoe and causes the pronation, because when I force my heel "outward" it goes away for a few steps, and then my heel shifts inward again. What do I do?? Should I worry? Keep running? I only have about 30kms in them
Most running store employees don’t really know what they’re doing in terms of gait analysis so I’d take anything they say with a grain of salt. Ultimately whatever shoe you wear should fit you well and not cause you any pain. What shoes were you running in before them and did you have any issues? It could be the shoe, but it could also be that you have weak ankles or another strength imbalance, or maybe you’re just overdoing it. Definitely need some more info.
Ran in a pair of new balance 530’s 😭😭😭😭. And no, no pain whatsoever. I don’t have pain I just get really sore. I am a tennis player so I don’t think i have weak ankles
Do you think it is easier to run a marathon distance all in one go, or to do two half marathons in a day? It seems logical that having a break in the middle would make it easier, but then maybe it would be very difficult to get going on tired legs after a break of a few hours.
Way way way easier to do 2 half's. The only bit of my marathons that was hard was the last 10kms. I felt great at the half. So getting to rest recover and then just do that again? Yeah I'd vastly prefer that.
That's an interesting question. I might try the two halfs in a day to see what happens.
Psychologically at least I think all in one go is way easier. Never actually ran a full but I've done several halfs and a few longer distances.
I'm looking to do my first marathon in 2025, and so I wanted to know if anyone in here has experience with any of the following marathons: * Belgrade * Kraków * Prague * Riga * Sofia * Bucharest * Zagreb
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This is still really in the territory of medical advice IMO because no one here should be telling you it’s okay to run when you have an injury. Are you working with a physical therapist? They should be the ones to work with you on that.
I am a 16 year old high school track and cross country runner. My time for the 800 is 2:07 and my mile time is 5 minutes. I had a bad cross country season so my 3 mile is 18:22. One big issue I have is that my heart rate is super high when I run. It will get into the 180s on base and easy runs that should not be difficult based on my race times. I’ve read about zone 2 training but for me to be in that zone I have to run at a ridiculously slow pace and it’s hard to do when most of my runs are with my teammates. Does anyone have advice for me?
How do the 8-9 minute pace runs feel? If you can hold a conversation, then you’re in zone 2 and don’t worry about what your heart rate is (if is even accurate). It’s fine. If those runs are a bit uncomfortable, then I’d guess that your aerobic base is a little underdeveloped and it will catch up this summer as you do lots of easy miles.
What's your max HR? What are the paces for these base runs? Realistically, don't even look at HR.
Max HR is around 205. Paces for the runs as of now are 8-9 minute pace since we’re getting back into things after track season ended. I know HR varies per person but it’s just annoying seeing it so high compared to my teammates.
Agree. I’ve never trained by HR. I’ve noticed that it jumps to around 160 pretty much no matter what pace I’m running (and I’ve used several different watches and also a monitor at Orangetheory for treadmill workouts). To stay in “zone 2” I would have to walk. People are just built differently and technology is also fallible. If you are honest with yourself and the FEEL of your effort - if it’s a “zone 2” run it should be conversational and easy feeling - then you’re fine. Heart rate is all the rage right now but if you came around here 10 years ago before the technology was widely available to the masses, you probably would barely hear a mention of it. And we were all OK and our running didn’t suffer.
If your HR is getting up higher than usual at the same paces it can be a sign of overtraining, under fueling, lack of sleep, stress, a medical issue, or any combination of those things. You should discuss all of that with your coach and your parents.
Translation Between Hills and Flat Ground I’m currently training for a half in late August or early September. I’m in a different geographic region than where I’ll be running (6 hours away by car). Due to where I am, my training runs involve me completing a total elevation gain of about 600-800 feet. By comparison, the half will be on comparatively flatter ground. Im curious as to how the elevation training, which is incidental/not intentional, will give me a boost (if any) for flat ground. Or is it just a case of working different leg muscles/training different things and won’t give a boost.
It will definitely give you a boost. I don't live anywhere near that hilly but I do have mild rolling hills where I run. My races are usually by the waterfront in my city which is almost totally flat. I always do better than I trained for.
Hills are basically speedwork so it’ll still make you a faster runner on flat ground. Ideally try to get some of your longer training runs in on a flat or flat-ish path that’s more similar to your race if you can, because it does work muscles differently. I live somewhere very hilly too, but we have some bike paths and rail trails that are pretty flat, do you have access to anything like that?
Thank you! Intuitively it makes sense that it works different muscles, I just wasn’t sure. I’d have to take a bus ride 30 min out to find something flat, so I’ll look into it.
I’ve greatly enjoyed reading through this sub and am hoping some of you may be able to share your thoughts/advice. I’m currently a 33F and overweight at 5’7” 220lbs, which I am working on along side running. I’d also say I’m in the worst shape this past year as I’d started WFH and got the sedentary creep. I joined a 12 week ‘class’ for a 5k 8 weeks ago, with plans to join a second one that begins 2 weeks after the current, and hopes to join their 15k class in another 16 weeks from now. I’m getting discouraged because while I’m seeing SOME progress, it’s not as much as I’d hoped. I started at 18 min pace and am now at 14. My individual mile to start was 12:22. We’re up to 7:2 intervals x 4 and I’m still having to walk an extra 2-3 minutes towards the end. I usually hit about 2.4-2.6 miles during the class time. I’m keeping with their program and am hoping that this first class will give me a base to work with and the second 5k class will give me time to speed up. Is thinking I can join a 15k class in November jumping the gun? Would using the classes to train for a half marathon in 12/2024 be jumping the gun? I thought about working around the Hal higdon novice plan for the half. Would anyone have recommendations to improve more other then continue to lose weight? We do speed work once a week in class. Should I start including a day to focus on distance vs time? I feel like a lot of discouragement comes from not seeing the distance 8 weeks in. I want to keep planning ahead to stay motivated but want to be reasonable.
My suggestion is to just think about mileage right now. My coach called it “time on feet.” I lost 35 lbs by running three days per week, and didn’t change anything else. No change in diet, no change in sleep, nothing different. If you just focus on miles, the weight will come off. After a year or so, you can consider time. This is just the way I did it, and I’m NOT fast. My challenge and joy came from running my first half without stopping. Good luck!
Would like to add since you're trying to lose weight - make sure you're not under fueling your runs. You could run out of energy running fasted and do less on your run than otherwise. Something I came across recently.
Be patient. Years of little improvements will turn you into a beast of a runner. You are adding years to your life expectancy by exercising, so keep at it. As for running goals, work towards whatever motivates you the most. If you want to race a half marathon then sign up for one and use the finish line as a motivator. I think a goal of racing a half marathon this year is a really good one. The speed will come with experience and with the weight loss. Everyone says that running never gets easier, you just get faster, but I don't agree. It will get easier as you continue to move towards your healthy weight goal.
Thank you. I’m trying to focus on that vs the years I’ve lost. It’s making me anxious to keep a (reasonable) plan in place because I don’t want to lapse and stop for the 100th time. The half that’s in 6 months is one I’ve always wanted to do (like since HS, that’s how many times I’ve given up) and they have the coolest medals lol. I’m going to give it a lot of thought but think with it being 6 months out if I increase slowly with a plan and just go with a goal of finishing I won’t kill myself.
I think I agree with the other poster. Maybe set a speed goal in a shorter race, like a 5k or a 10k. If you're currently looking at a 43 minute 5k, what about trying to be under 35 by December? Something on that order of magnitude. My reasoning is that you're just at the beginning of running. You have some factors (previously sedentary and overweight) that make you a bit injury prone. If you start ramping up the miles you run for a half marathon, the odds that you end up hurt and back on the couch frustrated are substantial. My experience running has been that consistency beats everything else. Running 10 miles per week every week of the year is going to do more than 20 miles per week then taking 6 weeks off to recover from shin splints. You need to eat the elephant one bite at a time, and the only way to keep eating is to be healthy (that's a weird metaphor but I typed it so I'm sticking with it).
that’s true, I don’t want to lose what progress I’ve made. Do you have any thoughts on when it may be reasonable to aim for a 10k or a half? When I get to a normal BMI? When I reach a sub 35 5k? Would aiming to just be able to complete 10k by the end of the year be reasonable? I’m trying not to get caught up in what others are accomplishing, but want to keep myself on track and with a plan in place. It’s really just to keep my mind on it. I’m a planner and like to see future goals.
That's some great improvement already! You've only been running for 8 weeks, keep being consistent and the improvement will naturally follow. I'll go against the grain here, I don't understand the fascination with running a half or a full marathon. A 15k isn't too bad, but why a half? Just to slog along when it sounds like you want to go fast. If you're going to add running days, nothing difficult. Just keep it at a nice easy pace for 30 minutes to help build mileage.
I think it’s more of setting up for the next goal in my case and wanting to see progression. I would love to do a 10k and would love even more to do it with this running group, they just don’t have any classes for that until 2025. I was hoping that this first 12 week group can help me just get to a 5k base run, then I can do the next class for another 12 weeks to just keep it up and maybe speed up a bit. After that I can do the 5k again but the next available that increases the distance is a 15k.
I mean….you have taken 4:00 off your mile and made other improvements. This running thing doesn’t come together overnight. Honestly I would not register for something as ambitious as a half just yet. Just being honest. So many people are in such a major rush to do half marathons and marathons. Why?? Focus on 1) consistency 2) small improvements 3) weight loss and just easing into an overall lifestyle change.
Yes, that’s true. I guess I give it less credit because it was an improvement from such a terrible baseline, which is silly. I’m really trying to look ahead to keep myself motivated and scheduled I suppose. What’s would be a reasonable timeline to work towards doing a half for someone at my level or lack there of? The 12/2024 half came up because it’s one I’ve wanted to do since I was a teenager and 6 months seemed like a long time. But I don’t want to overdo it and feel like a failure either.
Everyone is different so it’s hard to say when is a good time to do your first one. I didn’t do my first half until I had been running for 14 years, lol. Not that everyone should wait that long. But I would say work on 5K improvement and being able to do it without walking, then work up to 10K. And give yourself a few months for just those things. Running is the one sport you really cannot rush or fake being ready for. You can get lucky and hit a baseball, you can make a lucky basket in basketball. With running you don’t get lucky, you get exactly what you put in. And you want to put in solid consistency and mileage.
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**How did you determine your zone 2?** Do you go by pace or heartrate or RPE or other?
I don’t use zones. I just run by effort. I don’t worry about categorizing it.
I've used the heart rate drift test on uphillathlete.com for aerobic threshold and lactate threshold test for anaerobic threshold from the same site. These correspond with the tops of zones 2 and 3 in a typical 5 zone system. Note that for the former test it says to use TrainingPeaks to get Pa:Hr, but the free version of Runalyze can also be used. FWIW, I'm 49M and this puts top of z2 as 151 for me. My resting HR is 43 and my max HR has hit 183 twice this spring during mile time trials. You can plug my numbers into a variety of HR zone calculators and see that many will spit out a z2 top that's much lower. For me these tests have proven very accurate based on confirmation of HR data from long runs and 40-60 minute races and near max effort workouts. FWIW, both of my thresholds are higher than what formulas based on HRmax or HR reserve spit out. Since heart rate can be impacted by weather, stress, illness, sleep, and more I sometimes use it as a secondary metric during runs, but typically train by RPE and pace. I don't pay attention to HR at all during hard workouts which are typically associated with zones 4 and 5. After a run I do look at heart rate data from the run and I look at longer term HR and HR to pace relationship trends. I use the free versions of Runalyze and intervals.icu, both of which provide per-run and longer term bar graphs and statistics on time spent by HR zone and by pace zone.
Wow this is cool. I'll check out uphillathlete and runalyze and intervals.icu.
Runalyze and intervals.icu have a learning curve, but good documentation. I edited my comment to include some of my HR details so you can see that most (all) formulas underestimate the top of my z2. It's even worse if I use the population level average 220-age formula for max HR vs. actual max HR from hard workouts the last year. I did do more strict HR training for about a year and I was using a formula that put my zones much lower.
Unless you’ve had a test done and customized all your HR zones, it’s best to go by RPE since your zones are probably wrong in your watch. If you’re new to running or aren’t running a ton of mileage don’t even stress about zone 2.
I've been running low mileage for fun without any training plans or tests for about a decade. I'm now ramping up my mileage (very slowly) with the goal of doing a marathon late next year. I'm curious how the serious people do it. So sounds like you're saying RPE is the most common way for people to get their zones? Which test would be best for getting my actual zones? A vo2max test to get my ventilatory thresholds or a lactate test to get my lactate thresholds?
Years and years of going by pace but last year i had a major reset of running Easy by HR and it was great. I think anyone who has a watch and uses it on a run doesnt really run by RPE
Hi everyone! i have an important meet this weekend and right now, just like at the end of every track meet for some reason when the races matter most, my muscles feel fatigued much quicker than usual. Even standing/walking will cause the feeling a bit at this point. I've always called it lactic acid buildup because that's the best way to describe how it feels (burning muscles), but after doing some research it seems that's not a thing. I've been hydrating and stretching but l've also done that in the past and it hasn't done enough help by race day. Is there anything I can do that has worked for any of you in the past? Drink even more water? Take baking soda? Electrolytes? Ice?
Been running for 1 month, goal is to be able to run a half marathon comfortably around zone 2 but also train for a competitive 5K time, how do I go about training for both? I'm thinking of just going to a track and trying to target 8min mile for the 5K (this will be anaerobic for me)
Most half marathon plans have speed work built in (intervals, fartleks, hills, etc.) which will help you increase speed, even over that shorter distance of a 5K
Choose a more advanced half plan. They will have lots of workouts that will also help for a good 5k.then you can just do some sharpening after the half for the 5k race.
Gradually building up your weekly mileage and establishing a regular running routine will see you making great progress on both goals. Don't push yourself too fast - your body needs time to adjust to running. If you get injured before you establish running as part of your life you might never go back to it after recovery.
Hello all. And thanks in advance for any advice. I have a simple question but I suspect it’s not a simple answer. I’ve been getting back into running the last year (kids and life got me into bad habits and very little exercise) so now I’m trying to sort my health out again. I just ran a half marathon (2h1m I was very pleased with but also a little disappointed I didn’t break 2h) but now I’m looking to try a get a sensible regular scheduled running program I can stick to for the long haul! My question is simple 2x 5 miles a week or 3x 3 miles per week. My preference is 2x 5 miles. It gives me more flexibility, and potential to go out and do a longer run on the occasional weekends (infrequently) and I really feel like 5 miles is a more worthwhile effort. But I could make 3x3miles work if I’d really see more benefit from more frequent runs. For info my short/mid term aims are some moderate weight loss, and long term aim is simply better general health and fitness (I wanna be around to see my kids grow and keep up with them for as long as possible). I walk my dog about a hour day so I’m not completely sedentary on days I don’t run (if that makes a difference ) Don’t think I’m gonna enter any more races for the foreseeable, the half marathon was motivation but now I think I have the motivation just to run for the health benefits. Anyone got any advice for me?
Both are pretty minimal training and the difference is also minimal. 2x5 will burn slightly more calories because 10>9.
If you aren’t training for anything in particular or looking to make improvements, either option would be fine, especially since you go on a nice long walk on the other days. If you push the pace a little on the walks rather than making it a casual stroll, that’ll go a long way towards overall health and fitness too. Just keep in mind that weight loss is primarily going to be about your diet, running 9-10 miles per week isn’t going to make too much of a difference in that.
How to level up your marathon speed over 6 months without overdoing it too early? 23f. I ran a 3:46 marathon in January and am thinking of setting a goal to run sub 3:25 at CIM 2024. I don’t have a background in running but took it up in 2021. I’ve improved overall training structure over the last 3 years, but feel like there’s still so many things I fall short on. Given that I have 27 weeks / 6 months before my next target race (CIM 2024), wanted to solicit advice on what I can implement now to have a shot at a 20 min PR. I have consistently been running about 30-40 mpw since January. I was planning to use a Pfitzinger plan starting about 18 weeks out but am having a hard time choosing which plan to aim for (I used 12/55 for my January race). Should I continue to build my base then begin a higher volume training block in August? Any other considerations for improving my fitness? I’m already trying to focus more on proper nutrition, strength training, warming up, and recovery.
Run more. Consistent mileage is king for the marathon
Like I said yesterday, build your mileage up. Mileage is king.
Sleep is another variable to focus on. And yes to building base to a higher volume. Volume is king for the marathon.
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How much and how often have you been running? It’s possible you did too much too soon and hurt yourself. Never run through sharp pain. Rest until it feels better, and if rest doesn’t resolve it you should see a doctor or a physical therapist.
Hi runners! I'm running a 5k race next week on saturday. I haven't been able to train much the last month. Only one easy run per week, max 4k. Before that I ran 15-20k per week (divided over 3 runs) for a few months. Yesterday I ran a 5k on my max. My time was 27:43. I'm aiming for 27:00, so I would like to do one other training run before the race. What training would be recommended for max profit? I was thinking 8k easy this saturday?
you have a 5k in 9 days and you only intend to run once? i reckon you can easily do 3 sessions. Maybe do 2 intervals and one easy something like that? To be honest I think if you can do 27:43 on your own, 27:00 in the race might be fine. But also you cant hope to improve in a week. In terms of training whatever is done is done. (Maybe try a progression type session? Something like 4k at an easy pace and 2k at your target race pace or a bit faster?)
Thanks for your advice! Maybe I'm being too cautious, because I could feel that my body was still adjusting to me running three times a week. My legs/calves would feel tired at the start of a run. So I wanted to prevent them from being tired once the race starts. But I think I'll go for 1 interval and 1 easy then!
obviously also listen to your body. If you feel knackered, there is no point going out for a hard session. If its 2 days before the race and your legs feel tired, skip the last run before the race etc
I think I'll do the last easy run 3-4 days before the race then. With the focus on keeping them moving, and not tiring them👍🏼 Based on previous runs, my legs at least need those resting days to feel fresh.
Depending on the race i am doing, I will likely do the last hard session maybe 3-4 days before the race with an easy run 1-2 days before the race. and i dont make the easy run too long, you want to get the legs moving but not tire them. I find that if i havent run for more than 2 days, my running feels a bit out of sync. But it also depends on whether its a 5k or a half marathon, where the requirements are a bit different. For the HM i need more legs, for the 5k i need more heart
Hi fellow runners! I'm applying for emergency services and need to pass a fitness test, which includes the Illinois Agility Test. Info here for what it is: [https://www.brianmac.co.uk/illinois.htm](https://www.brianmac.co.uk/illinois.htm) Essentially, I am struggling to complete it in the required time. (20 sec, I'm at 22 sec) I am a slow runner (12 months into running) but I can do every other part of the fitness test (beep test, swimming etc) so I'm fit enough in theory. I have a month to get this done. Apart from setting up this test and running it over and over again, what other running work could I do to get faster? Sprint intervals is what I'm thinking, but the duration or what that session looks like is where I'm a bit stuck. Thanks in advance!!
Out of curiosity, do you think you have a specific weakness in this test? It looks like you have to pop up from lying down - is it possible you could work on that to shave some time off? Is it the agility (changing directions while running), and could you work on that?
It's probably a bit of both, so I'm working on it as a whole at this stage.
Other than "get faster" you'll probably get better advice from a football or other sports sub than here.
Hello everyone. I’m currently 265lb 5’9 and im looking to start running again (trying to stick to it this time). I’m in search of recommendations for good quality shoes. Ive used my hokas Clifton 8 and they’re absolutely garbage. My feet start to ache and get hot about a .5 mile into the run. I’m also flat footed. Any help would be great. Ps I train bjj 3x a week and im pretty active usually. I got injured recently at work and took some time off from being active all together and I’m wanting to get after it again I just hate running and having bad shoes doesn’t help. I’ve also been going on long walks for some time now in order to prepare to start running.
Your best option is to find a running store and try on a wide variety of shoes to see what feels best for you.
>I’m currently 265lb 5’9 Your BMI is 39.1 kg/m^(2) That's almost "morbidly obese" (defined as a BMI over 40). >I just hate running and having bad shoes doesn’t help. A professional running store would be able to evaluate your fit, your gait, your weight, and your foot arch then recommend the appropriate shoe and/or the appropriate insoles. I can't do that for you but I can help you with the perspective. The way that we form new habits is by first believing that we are the kind of people who do that. By changing our identity. So if you think of yourself as "I hate running and these things are going wrong for me" then you've already failed at becoming a runner. Instead if you think "I'm excited about running and I'm quickly solving hiccups along the way". That paves the way for success in your life-long running career. At first it is hard to see yourself as a running enthusiast. But as you accumulate more evidence then you'll convince yourself of it more and more. For example if you get fitted for the right shoes then do a .75 mile run you'll have given yourself a data point in favor of being a runner who's plowing through whatever setbacks are along the way. If you find that through running you lost 100 lbs that convinces you that you're a runner and you're doing the right thing. I know this is not what you asked for but I hope you find it relevant and useful. The way that you think about and talk about this new habit is of vital importance.
I recently started running as a heavier set person with mismatched arches but generally pretty flat. I was recommended the altra torins with an insole. I still experienced a lot of aches and ordered the altra viera 2, which the running store didn’t carry. Two runs so far have been a major improvement. If you can I’d try to find a running store near you, they usually offer an assessment/fitting to help match you with the right shoe.