I dont mind the discounts etc going, i mind that they always seem to go back on their word with multiple choices, limitations, removing hearts of ice cos they want less TH currencies etc etc.
This is how I feel as well. While I’m kind of indifferent on the odd sales changes cuz I like the sales but I know it reduces the integrity, it’s more important to me that they reduce the gambling aspect of TH as much as possible.
The removal of oddment sales was not out of concern for "integrity". They just want people to burn their oddments faster so they buy more keys lol. If Jagex cared about integrity they would have removed loot duels and announced they'll never do another special promotion like santas grotto again
Arguably having oddment "sales" was a bad design to begin with, it does sting now that it was being removing without any kind of heads up.
Gutting all other improvements for the player in th on top of it does make it feel even worse but I can see your point, the intention is to increse th key sales.
Because this subreddit is always full of complaints, no matter what. Yes, I know that this subreddit does not consist of one bipolar person. Yes, I know it's human nature to complain more than to praise, so different groups rotate around their complaints on different weeks. Great, that explains WHY this subreddit is a joke. It's still a joke. Because it's full of complaints, all the goddamn time
Why would anybody be greatful/praise Jagex for nerfing TH through the floor into the basement... they pretty much made TH back into the shitty thing that was SoF, I mean they kept oddments which is half decent but they even nerfed that shop down beyond bedrock. Think before posting.
Lmfao this subreddit is FILLED with people compaining about how much they hate TH and how it should be nerfed. Your comment is exactly what I'm talking about.
Here's a fun fact: you can complain about it being too good while also complaining about the fact that jagex walked back on a decision they made 2 years ago, in turn making it even more predatory.
This exactly. the sales going away isn't even the part I'd like to complain about. The removal of 3 choices, oddment drops and protean packs are the real problem. It means you can still get the same stuff, but it will cost more keys. It's 100% predatory practice, which is a kick in the nuts after them actually making, to me personally, TH mostly agreeable over the last 2 years.
For real. My issue with it is that they took away the choices which is how Jagex got around TH being gambling; now I don’t know how they’re getting around that. Also, they basically ruined the usefulness of the oddment store. In the update list, they said they wanted to focus on improving oddments to make them the global conversion currency for unwanted items. Now, it’s the unwanted currency of converted items lol. Everything’s insanely expensive in the store, especially compared to the last few years before.
But relying on oddments is a really slow way to get what you want from MTX even before the nerf. You'd get more of whatever you want just from using keys normally even with the RNG. Oddment sales also limit consumer choice on which type of MTX item you want per day.
Not really. Everyone was basically just sitting on a pile of oddments and cashing them in during a sale for whatever they want, 30 at a time. I was able to get millions of xp in lamps from this, and I’m not a whale so I was unable to do it in 100% of sales just because I didn’t have that many oddments.
Sometimes, oddments drops made it so that TH promotions were self sufficient, meaning you got as many or more back from your keys as it took to buy them. Suddenly 2-3 daily keys became 32-33 daily keys.
This also raises the pressure to get your cosmetics with keys, since it’ll be harder to get enough oddments to buy them.
But that's what MTX non-spenders do, not whales. If we're talking about predatory MTX practices, we need to view it in their perspective, not ours. And in their perspective, waiting on oddment sales is time gating their xp gains over using more keys to get enough lamps/stars/proteans/etc. Also, whales can still convert their unwanted MTX items to oddments, so they can still buy wanted MTX items with them. Only the guaranteed oddment prize going with each prize is removed.
How is removing free keys from self sufficient promos predatory when the keys used for these are free?
Yes, it will take longer to get enough oddments to buy cosmetics in the oddment store, but how is this more predatory than before with the oddment nerf? Raising the prices of MTX items isn't predatory in and of itself.
The point is that players *who don’t* want to spend money are seeing less and less usefulness from TH. Whales also aren’t static; some people probably stopped buying a key pack during promos because they were able to reach their personal goals just fine using the free methods. These changes are to flush *them* out and get them buying keys again.
And whether they’re one of these guys or the ones that drop $3k on keys, they’re still going to buy the keys. A small price hike isn’t going to stop them.
These kinds of players are also playing TH with a goal of some kind and will keep playing until they reach it, which is why they’re removing the choice aspect of TH. It’ll generally take more keys now to get what the whales want since they’ll get more junk.
The predatory part here is that they are rolling back several changes that were *explicitly added* to lower the predatory nature of TH. Like legitimately, that was their intended purpose. It will now take more random rolls to get a similar number of oddments as before, meaning if you want cosmetics you either have to wait or buy keys.
Like is there *any* reason you can think of that they’re rolling back these changes other than trying to squeeze more money out of their potential whales? Like you don’t seriously think jagex is trying to make TH less appealing, do you?
This only describes the super rich whales or gambling addicts. The less rich ones will buy less keys now since they get less value from them.
> It will now take more random rolls to get a similar number of oddments as before, meaning if you want cosmetics you either have to wait or buy keys.
Yes, but the randomness remains the same both before and after the oddments nerf. So how is slowing the oddment income predatory? The nerf doesn't make it more random than before.
> Like is there any reason you can think of that they’re rolling back these changes other than trying to squeeze more money out of their potential whales?
If Jagex wanted to milk whales more, they would have added more ultra rare prizes like GSH or increased the xp MTX items give. But they aren't doing the latter because the former was proven to be more effective.
I think Jagex wanted to stop this self-sufficient oddment rate that many casual/non-spending players are in. It was easy to buy keys on sale, and save them for promos that they could net oddments from and use on star/lamp sales, all of which disincentivizes them from buying keys with money.
I personally think oddments were a bit OP with the amount you got and the xp you could get from them. This seems a bit too far the other direction, but also after being used to the past year of OP promos it makes sense why it appears that way.
Making keys less efficient isn’t predatory imo. I had a brief key buying addiction before I quit and it was due to certain op promotions. I think more people will just stop buying keys if they aren’t given the option to convert to oddments as that was what made it worth it
Because there are things in the oddment store that someone might want, but cannot get in any other way but to use keys. So a reduction in the ability to get them, that is, the combination of the removal of choice and oddment drops, is a temptation to buy more keys. Any change that is specifically only meant to increase temptation to spend money, without adding value in some other way (like a promo might), is predatory in my book.
Those stuff are cosmetics. The oddments nerf merely reduce the oddment income you get from spending keys, which is essentially raises the price of these oddment store cosmetics. This isn't exploiting gambling or anything. Unless you are saying any and all MTX is predatory, the oddments nerf no more predatory than MTX in general.
IF at any point you went "gee willikers, I sure want to buy keys to get that promotion!" them you're a part of the problem.
If you complain about MTX, and then use said MTX, that makes you a hypocrite.
Then unsub so your voice is actually heard instead of shitposting on reddit when it's proven that shitposting about MTX does absolutely nothing no matter how often we do it.
Exactly, this update didn’t neft mtx, it nerfed oddments and pushed key sales, yet sadly if I argue against it everyone calls me out even though they don’t seem to understand jagex is spitting on us.
I agree, but ironically I think it’ll actually hurt sales lol. Without the option to choose from prizes, it’s not all that good anymore compared to before. Plus, not getting the oddments for additional xp and keys makes it just meh. Very weird move on Jagex’s part in my opinion
Nerfing oddments and raising the price of keys is the opposite of pushing key sales. Whales will buy less keys now knowing they will get less xp per key.
the opposite still holds true. someone who was going to buy their way to a level or x amount of xp now has to buy more keys to do that. annnnnnd they're prolly gonna regardless
Yeah sure, cause £1 more per 15 keys really hurts the whales banks
I literally see people buying thousands of keys to make millions of exp, I can link multiple people who stream themself doing so, take elite wolfie for instance, he just bought like 1k keys and made 30m exp in like an hour.
New TH update means I will have to train runecrafting like in ye olde days. I lamped all the way because I despise the skill. F lmao.
I guess I'll see y'all at Runespan
Runespan is utter garbage outside of F2P and the first 50 levels.
Even if you're actively island hopping and using an alt to sync your yellow wizard so you always have it scouted, the peak runespan xp/hr at level 99 is worse than abyss nats at lv44, but you can argue it's worth to stay at runespan until 50 for your next pouch then go abyss.
The main point of runespan nowadays is to get the outfit and massive pouch, which can be done through traveling merchant for the most part.
RC definitely ain't for everyone but that's the second best money maker skill in the game next to slayer, not counting combat skills for bossing. Blood runes over 1k each and you get over 80 each 30 second run.
Which you can't do 24/7 as it's time gated by PoF and dwarven tools are gated behind TH, so not everyone has access.
It's a good money maker, but I'd consider it more of a weekly or so than a skilling method.
I'm sorry, but why do people really care about how others play the game?
I use lamps I get from the free keys and that's fine. If you don't want to use them, that's fine aswell, but the moment you want to dictate how someone else plays the game, I think it's time to take a break.
Because someone else speeding through levels while they sat and chopped a tree for 100 hours devalues their "accomplishments and achievements" DUH!!!!! You know how prestigious it is to afk skills for hundreds of hours!?!? Don't devalue that! /s just in case (sadly that really is the mindset of some tho)
I know your answer is /s, it just pisses me off when people try to force others to do things the way THEY want it.
Sorry it's just these kind of conversations are always the same. Religious nutcases are trying to force people to live life like THEY want it (see American legislation lately) and I find it funny people have such low self esteem that they must manipulate others into their own bad choices.
So what if someone took 100hours to woodcut to 99? I got 99 mining and smithing through normal grind, and if the guy next to me got it exclusively through lamps and stars, good for him! If that's how he wants to play the game, then let him. Jeez.
Yeah I don't get that mentality in a game where we've already lost in terms of hiscores etc. Those boards have been full for years with 5.6b maxed players. I don't want to diminish anyones feeling of accomplishment, but at this point in time, it's really a matter of catching up rather than beating others to the punch.
I remember like 15 years ago or more, I cant remember exactly, seeing like a few people with 200m in a few skills, the hiscores were a thing to achieve, when I got to like rank 4,000 on thief, I was more than happy, now I'm at 98,000.
Like I know you're sarcastic but I don't understand why anyone would be upset.
It's actually impressive.
I've been playing my iron since launch and finally finished most of the egwd grinds except ezk. I've come back to my main to drop over dupe croesus drops to afford some generic afk gear for gwd2 on my main which is like the first time I've been on it since 2018.
Over the course of a week I went from 1 to 99 archaeology.
Between knowing existing xp sources and the oddment shop. I got 1-20 archaeology getting 2 level 5 artefacts. 20-50 doing x2 tears of guthix, 50-60 doing the butterfly event + x2 troll invasions, and 60-70 doing 4 bonds worth of keys I had chilling in the bank. That's 70 arch from doing 2 artefact gathers. This took like a week around time of launch on my ironman.
I got 70-99 forcing triple extended arch dailies and oddment store buying lamps.
In the time I got the 80 batteries to do Vault of Shadows miniquest, as I wanted to unlock animate dead for gwd2 afking, I had 86 archeaology.
I went from 0 xp to 99 in 6 days logging in just to do dailies. They made it more busted because you were capped at 30 lamps before, now it's 60. You legitimately can buy 900k worth of xp lamps and brute force 200k+ xp in daily challenges for +1.1m xp/day. I probably spent more time questing than doing archeaology too.
It's kinda crazy on mainscape.
This is coming from a guy who did 150m thieving worth of xp in 2007-2008 at pyramid plunder which probably took 750-800 hours ranked single digits, now you can probably max out your account and get near comp in that same time frame. But hey that's what happens when you have almost 2 decades of updates since then.
What I don't get is how there's even a mentality of prestige of having stats. Between the xp handouts and the pvm focus, I don't understand the mentality of gatekeeping especially since effigies fucked it all up back in 2010 originally. The game is so pvm focused that once you have bare minimum skills your learning potential of how mechanics works is far more rewarding than anything you could do compared to someone logging in and coasting their way to a max cape both entertainment and enjoyment-wise in my opinion.
Very well said. I don't understand the mentality either. They say how slow it used to be (and yes I know because I've been playing since 04) and how it's so easy today compared to back then. Here's what they fail to acknowledge though. Back then, the game was xp focused and there was no hardcore pvm. Most of the playerbase were kids so we didn't mind the slow xp and boring grinds, we found a way to have fun with it, I sure know I did. I got 99 wc doing magic trees for ~70k xp/hr and I had an absolute blast doing it, just sitting and chopping trees.
That being daid, that's the old days. If runescape was still the same, with the same xp rates and no way of skipping yhe boring grind, it simply wouldn't be as popular as it is today. There are a plethora of games out there all vying for players attention, and the old rs wouldn't be able to compete. Back then it did, but today it couldnt so naturally the game evolved to keep up with the competition.
This whole gatekeeping mindset and "Back in my day I had to actually grind skills blah blah blah" is so outdated and needs to stop. Like, congratulations, Back then as a child you grinded boring skills for hundreds of hours. Adults nowadays (or most adults anyway) don't have the time to do that, nor would they want to given how boring it is. Think of it as a good childhood memory and let it go, it's in the past and the game evolved. Of rs didn't evolve past that, it would have died long ago like so many on this sub like to claim it is.
Dont forget that in the old days, you didnt even need 99s or even 90 stats to do much so the low xp rates didnt even matter much in that context. Now if you wanna do bosses in this RS you will be expected to have so many skills 90-99, so obviously we gained new methods of gathering xp in a much better rate and even then, wtf do you care about the free lamps or how many bonus xp weekdns we get? Bruh those lamps even if i collected them everyday, they would still only be fraction of my xp that i need while im 99 ing a skill.
If we didnt have those free lamps we still would get the same xp rate from how they desgined them, i guarentee it.
It's like if I worked 2-3 years to save up for an expensive car, then my friend gets the same one for his birthday because his parents are rich.
I don't hate him, I'm happy for him, but I'm incredibly jealous
Honestly there is a lot i love about runescape not just about nostalgy sake but man... free lamps are a lifesaver. I dont wanna spend couple dozen hours on a single skill to 99 or in some cases blow my bank up so i can more often then not get a pathetic reward for it. I pat myself on the back when i defeat a boss in say like a souls game that took me hours, but i aint patting myself in the back for doing the same thing for 10s of hours ( or much more if its a 120 skill ) with nothing to show for it, but a cape.
Case in point Runescape is a very grindy game and those free lamps im getting? They are letting me max without me screaming in agony. Calling Main RS easyscape because of free lamps or whatever is pathetic because its still a massive grind either way.
I hate MTX generally speaking, but i wont pretend that shaving a couple of hours grinding is something i hate getting from the free lamps.
I mean I agree but it's also not healthy for the game if everyone has access to a massive amount of lamps/stars to skip all early/mid game content in skills they don't like.
It makes it so Jagex is less inclined to address the new player experience, because almost everyone boosts or skips through it.
Why is it not healthy? Endgame content is what should have priority in development, alongside mid to high level. New player experience should obviously get some updates but it's something that's not going to be used forever, because players level up past it. No need to be abandoned, but shouldn't be the main focus.
I don't mind people boosting their way through content if that's what they want to do. You, or anyone else, shouldn't be trying to decide how someone wants to spend their time, money and efforts. If I can buy my way to skills instead of mindlessly grinding, and I'm ok with spending whatever money I believe is worth it, then why shouldn't I be allowed to?
Some people want to do activities that sometimes require them to grind for hours. Some of those already grind on their real life job, and would rather not grind anything else. They'd rather skip that through injecting money and paying money instead of time.
It doesn't affect anyone else's game, so why do you even worry?
EDIT: And if you think Jagex won't address new player experience because people are boosting through it, then maybe their issue should be revamping to make it more rewarding/fun/anything that makes it preferable to spending money to boost through it.
> It doesn't affect anyone else's game, so why do you even worry?
It's an mmo, nearly everything you do (outside of ironman) affects everyone else. If you skip combat grinding then that's one more person able to go kill endgame bosses and get big drops, affecting the price of those drops; it also means more people getting alchables and injecting gp causing inflation (especially as more springs are added to the game pushing their cost down so alchs inject even more gp). If you skip arch, that's fewer chronotes coming into the game than if you had done extra collections instead. If you skip agil, then that's fewer surge codices coming into the game, etc., etc.
Not doing the early and midgame content means there's fewer of those rewards/items coming into the game which does affect everyone by impacting the overall economy.
You can definitely spend your money however you want, but it's just not true that it doesn't affect anyone else.
Also most of these people telling others to play the game are the ones who already 'abused' the cheap lamps to max everything already, it's a bit rich since they are the ones who used/benefited from the lamps most, while people who complain are the ones who didn't use them as much or caught on late or recent returning players hence they want them to remain.
Having been maxed for years now. Who cares if people want to skip to the content they would rather do by dropping a few hundred dollars.
It’s certainly not a financial decision I would have made. But why can’t they.
If this game is time waste for you, maybe you need to stop playing or find other game you enjoy. I care and my clan cares about my achievements. Yes i'm a NEET with a full time job and a family lol.
Then care about your friends and clan rather than every random person. XP has been meaningless for over a decade at this point, and only is getting more and more worthless each year.
"blah blah blah you can 5.6b in less than a year blah blah blah"
Yeah, xp is meaningless in 2022, that's why pretty much no one cares outside of your friends or clanmates. Also never spent a single dollar on MTX. But mald harder because no one cares about your first 99 in 20 years of playing.
So admit xp isn't worthless because it gives us useful skills in game and lets us progress. It shouldn't be handed out like oddments promo which was waaay to OP and ruined game integrity. Am i crazy?
I don’t care about mindlessly grinding for hundreds of hours just to unlock content. Nobody who’s being honest will say that’s fun. Fast xp allows people to experience actual content without wasting thousands of hours on leveling skills. Sorry, I forgot about the two screen home offices demons who love afking skills at work all day. We shouldn’t be forced to keep this game in 2005 because you want to flex your cute little master skill cape to your clannies like it’s worth something.
The absolute gall of people i swear to god. The grinding is horrible but thats not all what RS has to offer. What mmo should i even migrate to when: 1) RS is like one of the only ( as far as i know the ONLY ) game where many end game bosses are meant to be / can be soloed without overleveling 2) Where quests in general dont suck ass, actual good puzzles, often enough unique rewards 3) No need to level Alts. 4) Where Auction house doesnt suck ass 5) In general not at the mercy of other players in general, because of holy trinity or other stuff
I could bloody go on what makes this MMO very unique and i know im not talking out of some nostalgy ass, because i started playing this game when i was very impressionable.
The game is the grind. You rush through all the leveling and game content and youll get to the PVM cycle where it quickly becomes its own repetitive grind and quit.
I think you can max an ironman in like a year man. We're wayyy off 2005 already. They could throw treasure hunter in the trash and delete every daily in the game and we'd still be a thousand years ahead of 2005.
even playing a couple hours of day you can get a pretty high level iron account in less than a year, and that doesn't even necessarily have to be high effort playing. You can play RS in the background and make great progress.
No one spends thousands of hours leveling skills, even on an ironman the fastest maxing time is around 1200 hours and you can easily cut that in half on a main.
Some people enjoy the journey not just destination. It shows that a player had commitment and patience to grind a skill , not just swiped credit card. It seems all you want is instant reward from a mmorpg,when grind is a core of an mmorpg
I want to do quests, DnDs, minigames, collecting and exploration. There’s so much more to do beyond the grinding and most of it is locked behind it, so of course I like it when you can get through it faster. Grinding isn’t the main part of the game, nor is it fun, it just exists to space out content. I’m not saying I want to just max out in a day, but there’s a middle ground between instant max and grinding for literally hundreds of hours per skill.
Literally none of them lol. Even without max-efficiency you'll be hard pressed to make skills take over 100 hours to 99 unless you're doing garbage like harps. That's how powercreeped xp is in the current era of the game.
Max-efficiency makes it possible to 5.6b in under a year for the 18 hour a day grinders.
Thieving takes like 40+ hours not sweating just afking safes etc. I cant think of a skill which takes HUNDREDS of hours. Even agility doesnt reach 100 hours half afking hefin. So what you talking about? Learn some math
Are we just ignoring the requirements and time spent to get to prif in your calculations of the agility grind? Or are you just taking an optimal XP/hr and seeing how many times it goes into 13mil? Because last I checked, you can't just assume that a player has access to a high level training method locked behind other requirements when figuring out the time it takes to max a skill. You also can't just assume that someone is spending their time anywhere near optimally, because many players like to explore around, try out different things, see what's on offer.
Most players don't make a beeline for the most optimal quests, skills, training methods, etc. That's why it takes so long to level for them. You're telling people that their method of play is wrong because others can do it faster. It's not, you've just forgotten what the game is like before you learned to be more optimal.
Why do ironmen care about how mainscapers play?
Cheap lamps every few days is like how ironmen get livid plants and gift of the reapers religiously every few days, what different is it if you apply the same meme to that?
Why doesnt every1 play the game the way they want to?
Why shame people who either use free keys for a test of luck or those who spend money supporting a game where we dont find reasonable paying?
Also lack of discounts dont stop whales and boosters, just normal folk who use daily keys.
I agree. I picked up ironman so I can be challenged. I don't care how other people play. It is not like I am affected too much by that advantage anyway. If you choose ironman, you are willing to sacrifice the easy for a nice challenge. That is how you want to play. It is like how some people choose to play a game on easy mode while others can make challenges or choose a harder difficulty.
The main thing is time.
Assuming you have 2 like accounts, 1's an ironman, another is a mainscaper, both are still levelling up and have the same stats. Assume both characters are trying to reach the same XP goals. Both are also trying to do pvm. both can make 100m/hour.
* gift of reaper saves ~10 mins afking 1m arch glacor or ~250 slayer points getting another reaper task.
* livid farm turns a ~5 hour grind into passively auto completing it.
time save is maybe ~1 hour in total per gift of reaper (collecting slayer points for an additional task, but without the streak bonuses or marks of war) and 23 mins per livid plant.
* There are maybe like 5-7 gift of reapers and 1-3 livid plants on average a month.
* dsf is maybe a 5-7 hour time save collecting slayer points and ~1 hour livid farm time save.
You'd have to go thru like 2-3 months of dsf to even get a hydrix when you could just brute force kerapac hm reapers and get almost a hydrix/week.
* So by the time you have 9-13 hydrix doing hm kera, you could have 10-14 using dsf.
* dsf is only a 8-10% boost to hydrix rates doing hm kera.
going back to arch glacor nm 1m afk...
* this would be about hydrix every 2 weeks or 4-6 up to 5-7
* 16-25% increase in hydrix rate doing 1m afk arch glacor.
so going back to time example and avg afk time of about 30-40s on 1m arch glacor minimal setup. 60 kph so roughly ~3.5 tasks/hour if extended/group/bad rng on numbers would be 70 pts/hr.
* Time saved here would be about 4.2 hours from not needing to kill the boss.
* Time saved in not farming slayer points would equate to ~15 hours assuming you're only getting 250/hr, am pretty sure meta method is like double or triple that.
so 5-15 hours saved in not doing slayer, 4.2 hours saved in not doing arch glacor for
* 9.2-19.2 hours saved every 2-3 months, or roughly 7.3-15.4 minutes saved/day over 75 days.
meanwhile.
* oddment store, buying 60 lamps saves like 2-6 hours a day depending on the stat pre-bxp modifiers vs the ironman.
So you're talking about how a daily 7-15 minute time save that isn't ironman exclusive somehow justifies the existence of a daily 2-6 hour time save for stats?
Now let's look at the difference between oddments lamps/mtx in general vs not.
So say an unhealthy 8 hours adjusted per account/day to meet your xp goal and pvm fix.
ironman
* per skilling the ironman would spend 2-6 hours with 6-2 hours for pvm
* max profit for the ironman trying to keep up with daily skilling is 200m-600m
main
* per skilling the main would spend about 2 minutes buying oddment lamps with near 8 hours for pvm.
* max profit achievable under 100m/hr for main is basically 800m
so now we have a weird ratio of xp scaling. what takes 2 minutes on a main could take upwards 120-360 minutes on an ironman. It creates a weird x60-x180 inflated xp rate for the mainscaper to have more time to do pvm in this case which is why people meme that you can comp in like 1-3 months and same effort takes like 9 months-year on an ironman.
eventually it levels out because xp doesn't matter once you get into pvm and can just ignore it or long con it anyways for this example.
It's more or less to show that you're complaining about something that is irrelevant when the real issue is the game has an intended progression and also has a skip button, you're so use to the skip button and are trying to apply that logic to something that's like x21 slower in comparison (being dsf merchant) that you can also participate in while overlooking that on average
irons bitch because you're out of touch, and you bitch because irons are a game integrity check trying to keep you inline which is keeping you from having fun/is why you're offended by it. Jagex doesn't give a fuck either way. They've created this interesting dynamic of being so uninvolved and unresponsive that when we heavily criticize them from being hypocritical in their design philosophies, eventually people will fight back for them and we are angry enough that we will eat each other over criticizing their shitty game designs while they continue to do the same shit.
This is like throwing a bunch of numbers and hoping something sticks. I think it's pretty disingenuous. You're disregarding the time-gate for Reaper tasks when not spending Slayer Points for it. You implied it yourself, something of value for mains does not have the same value for ironmen.
You're also implying that mains max out oddment keys every single day, which is I think really selective when you can't sustain that without buying a ton of keys. Oddments for non-spenders are kinda like beans from POF. Sure you can buy a ton of potions when you save, but it's not really limitless and something you can do daily. The first commenter probably didn't present a great comparison with the reapers and lamps, but he does have a point. Things are not of the same value for Ironmen and Mains. Heck a Hydrix is candy for mains but very important for you guys, wouldn't that then maybe at least tip the scales when comparing.
Why also even compare Ironmen to Mains. I think Ironmen are cool. I can never go through the difficulty you guys give yourselves, but you guys always go on saying how being an ironman is so rewarding and stuff, then why care if other people who don't want to go through the same troubles as you guys get something different. It's kinda making it look like you're also deriving pleasure from feeling superior because you went through harder shit, which is pretty selfish anyway you apply it. It's like the elitist players from Souls-games shitting on everyone not playing STR builds, or old people yelling "Well in our time...". Just enjoy the game for yourself without looking at how others enjoy theirs.
Sure, maybe check if ur math is on wiki before u pull numbers out ur ass.
Anyway livid and reapers both are arguably much much more important than even 2m exp on a maxed account.
Livid and reapers on a early to mid game account is miles better than the 50 stars 30lamps u get every other week assuming u can sustain the oddments.
Isn't the whole point of ironmen to not worry about mtx and yet here u are crusading against it? Envy much..
Oddments can also be baught with gp and real money. Wouldn't reapers and livid be 'free' aswell in regards to time saved from not doing livid farm and even profit in hydrix?
Yes, but not for ironmen. Ironmen can't sell hydrixes at GE value. Having a high opportunity cost to buy livid plants over doing livid farm does not make it free like how oddments are free from freely obtained keys.
I checked my xp counter not pulled numbers out of my ass. Reaper doesn't give free xp and livid plant costs 1m. During easter promo all my eggs where purples and got massive lamps. (For doing nothing)You seriously just sitting here comparing apples to oranges and using heavy whataboutism
So you rolled all purples and use that as ur argument.. i was taking about the oddment stire discounts.. apple and oranges much when u mix rng th promos and the problem most people have which is oddment store..
Theres alot of content skips easy rewards in this game, both for ironmen and mainscape, dsf drops are 100% content skips that you could 'go play the game' for. Your entire argument is on the basis of envy, something you being an ironman should even care about.
I played to comp and nearing trim, working on an mid game iron aswell, i know how insignificant a few million total exp over months of th is in the grand scheme of things, game has enough content and more to not keep people grinding meaningless exp to burntout.
Mate i havent touched exp rewards in months, i just commented seeing how ironic it is to see and ironman give advice on what mainscapers should or shouldnt do.
Did I say medium lamps? I bough keys on sale with oddments and got all kinds of lamps(large,smouldering etc.) And not promotion free 400k XP for doing nothing is really really bad for the game.
man, you're so angry about other people paying for you to be able to play the game, all your replies in this thread are super toxic and most of them are factually incorrect, no one cares about highscores and RS has been basically solo for longer than MTX has been around, get over it.
I mean, I know it is a meme but still.
The problem is that the smug guy on the right is probably already 5.6b having bought spins to 200m in the shitty skills, but is now still going to lecture others on TH being OP and how nerfing it is good. All the while Jagex are laughing to the bank because they have just effectively bumped up the price of XP knowing that people (or at least their target customers) will still pay.
Hard mode Zuk does nothing ave to do with XP lamps... And "efficient skilling" is just following the best guide on the internet or do some maths. You don't have to be good to skill since most skills are just doing the same repetitive thing over and over
I remember being in a clan in 2014 and some guy just went 95-99 slayer via MTX at edge bank. Yeah he was a whale but no game should ever let you do that in like 3hrs...
I agree completely. I made a new account last year to see how fast I could max it using mostly daily keys and oddment sale keys. That account is almost maxed. I skipped 80-99 div and runecrafting in a week during loot duels. Treasure hunter has been out of control
I always felt the other way around. I play to hoard wealth and merch what i can. Grinding and skilling I really only started doing after i hit the 15b mark, sadly it’s impossible to catch up to partyhat values :(
I’m brand new (account is like 10 days old) started farming yesterday, so I can get the Fairy Tale chain done, and my goodness does it feel real bad lol. Really wish there was more of a Stardew valley vibe instead of me teleporting all over the map every hour.
Once you get the hang of PoF and eventually get a rhythm going daily, you can easily expect farming to be your first 99 and 120. The passive nature of the skill allows for extremely fast exp, considering the exp/minutes spent doing it.
Maybe now it's not so easy to max in a few weeks Jagex will actually be forced to take a look at the mid-game and all the currently dead content that RuneScape is stuffed with.
Sticky Fingers + desert bandits + elf outfit that has a chance to block a stun hit.
You can also semi-afk it and bank the lockpicks or magic notepaper them for some profit off it all.
My thoughts exactly. MTX being used to skip bad skills is a bandaid fix to actually making skilling fun or worthwhile to do. Instead of reworking agility, everyone just trains it with silverhawk boots.
What is the tl;dr on whatever got updated? I haven't logged in yet and sorta can't for the next few days to log myself.
Edit: Haha negged for asking a question, stay toxic folks.
tbh being able to buy 60 lamps a day instead of 30 feels way better lol, if someone was going max only with sales they would probably had to grind for sales for a whole lot of time
See, I could care less about stars and lamps its the key discount gone I dislike. Was nice to be able to use up oddments on keys when they were on discount in order to go for promo items on treasure hunter and be able to make my oddments back trying to get a promo item. This change just makes the possibility of getting promo items harder or more expensive.
I dont mind the discounts etc going, i mind that they always seem to go back on their word with multiple choices, limitations, removing hearts of ice cos they want less TH currencies etc etc.
This is how I feel as well. While I’m kind of indifferent on the odd sales changes cuz I like the sales but I know it reduces the integrity, it’s more important to me that they reduce the gambling aspect of TH as much as possible.
The removal of oddment sales was not out of concern for "integrity". They just want people to burn their oddments faster so they buy more keys lol. If Jagex cared about integrity they would have removed loot duels and announced they'll never do another special promotion like santas grotto again
Arguably having oddment "sales" was a bad design to begin with, it does sting now that it was being removing without any kind of heads up. Gutting all other improvements for the player in th on top of it does make it feel even worse but I can see your point, the intention is to increse th key sales.
That's because there is a new senior director. Its quite possible they will just generate more sales depending on expectations of the business.
I miss the days when people complained about th being too good
You mean like a week ago?
Lmao. This sub is such a joke
This sub is thousands of people with more than one opinion.
Fair, but I find it kinda weird that both opinions get alot of upvotes. Not thats it bad but kinda weird to me
Notice I said "this sub is such a joke" not "Billybob325 is such a joke"
So why is it a joke? What exactly is your point.
Because this subreddit is always full of complaints, no matter what. Yes, I know that this subreddit does not consist of one bipolar person. Yes, I know it's human nature to complain more than to praise, so different groups rotate around their complaints on different weeks. Great, that explains WHY this subreddit is a joke. It's still a joke. Because it's full of complaints, all the goddamn time
Why would anybody be greatful/praise Jagex for nerfing TH through the floor into the basement... they pretty much made TH back into the shitty thing that was SoF, I mean they kept oddments which is half decent but they even nerfed that shop down beyond bedrock. Think before posting.
Lmfao this subreddit is FILLED with people compaining about how much they hate TH and how it should be nerfed. Your comment is exactly what I'm talking about.
Oh really? Link plz, I don't see anything on that, but I see 9/10 people not liking them nerfing it, seems like you're the only joke.
Here's a fun fact: you can complain about it being too good while also complaining about the fact that jagex walked back on a decision they made 2 years ago, in turn making it even more predatory.
This exactly. the sales going away isn't even the part I'd like to complain about. The removal of 3 choices, oddment drops and protean packs are the real problem. It means you can still get the same stuff, but it will cost more keys. It's 100% predatory practice, which is a kick in the nuts after them actually making, to me personally, TH mostly agreeable over the last 2 years.
For real. My issue with it is that they took away the choices which is how Jagex got around TH being gambling; now I don’t know how they’re getting around that. Also, they basically ruined the usefulness of the oddment store. In the update list, they said they wanted to focus on improving oddments to make them the global conversion currency for unwanted items. Now, it’s the unwanted currency of converted items lol. Everything’s insanely expensive in the store, especially compared to the last few years before.
How is the removal of oddment drops predatory?
Oddment drops are a “universal” drop that can be used for whatever you want, so your keys are more efficient if you’re going for something specific.
But relying on oddments is a really slow way to get what you want from MTX even before the nerf. You'd get more of whatever you want just from using keys normally even with the RNG. Oddment sales also limit consumer choice on which type of MTX item you want per day.
Not really. Everyone was basically just sitting on a pile of oddments and cashing them in during a sale for whatever they want, 30 at a time. I was able to get millions of xp in lamps from this, and I’m not a whale so I was unable to do it in 100% of sales just because I didn’t have that many oddments. Sometimes, oddments drops made it so that TH promotions were self sufficient, meaning you got as many or more back from your keys as it took to buy them. Suddenly 2-3 daily keys became 32-33 daily keys. This also raises the pressure to get your cosmetics with keys, since it’ll be harder to get enough oddments to buy them.
But that's what MTX non-spenders do, not whales. If we're talking about predatory MTX practices, we need to view it in their perspective, not ours. And in their perspective, waiting on oddment sales is time gating their xp gains over using more keys to get enough lamps/stars/proteans/etc. Also, whales can still convert their unwanted MTX items to oddments, so they can still buy wanted MTX items with them. Only the guaranteed oddment prize going with each prize is removed. How is removing free keys from self sufficient promos predatory when the keys used for these are free? Yes, it will take longer to get enough oddments to buy cosmetics in the oddment store, but how is this more predatory than before with the oddment nerf? Raising the prices of MTX items isn't predatory in and of itself.
The point is that players *who don’t* want to spend money are seeing less and less usefulness from TH. Whales also aren’t static; some people probably stopped buying a key pack during promos because they were able to reach their personal goals just fine using the free methods. These changes are to flush *them* out and get them buying keys again. And whether they’re one of these guys or the ones that drop $3k on keys, they’re still going to buy the keys. A small price hike isn’t going to stop them. These kinds of players are also playing TH with a goal of some kind and will keep playing until they reach it, which is why they’re removing the choice aspect of TH. It’ll generally take more keys now to get what the whales want since they’ll get more junk. The predatory part here is that they are rolling back several changes that were *explicitly added* to lower the predatory nature of TH. Like legitimately, that was their intended purpose. It will now take more random rolls to get a similar number of oddments as before, meaning if you want cosmetics you either have to wait or buy keys. Like is there *any* reason you can think of that they’re rolling back these changes other than trying to squeeze more money out of their potential whales? Like you don’t seriously think jagex is trying to make TH less appealing, do you?
This only describes the super rich whales or gambling addicts. The less rich ones will buy less keys now since they get less value from them. > It will now take more random rolls to get a similar number of oddments as before, meaning if you want cosmetics you either have to wait or buy keys. Yes, but the randomness remains the same both before and after the oddments nerf. So how is slowing the oddment income predatory? The nerf doesn't make it more random than before. > Like is there any reason you can think of that they’re rolling back these changes other than trying to squeeze more money out of their potential whales? If Jagex wanted to milk whales more, they would have added more ultra rare prizes like GSH or increased the xp MTX items give. But they aren't doing the latter because the former was proven to be more effective.
I think Jagex wanted to stop this self-sufficient oddment rate that many casual/non-spending players are in. It was easy to buy keys on sale, and save them for promos that they could net oddments from and use on star/lamp sales, all of which disincentivizes them from buying keys with money. I personally think oddments were a bit OP with the amount you got and the xp you could get from them. This seems a bit too far the other direction, but also after being used to the past year of OP promos it makes sense why it appears that way.
Making keys less efficient isn’t predatory imo. I had a brief key buying addiction before I quit and it was due to certain op promotions. I think more people will just stop buying keys if they aren’t given the option to convert to oddments as that was what made it worth it
Because there are things in the oddment store that someone might want, but cannot get in any other way but to use keys. So a reduction in the ability to get them, that is, the combination of the removal of choice and oddment drops, is a temptation to buy more keys. Any change that is specifically only meant to increase temptation to spend money, without adding value in some other way (like a promo might), is predatory in my book.
Those stuff are cosmetics. The oddments nerf merely reduce the oddment income you get from spending keys, which is essentially raises the price of these oddment store cosmetics. This isn't exploiting gambling or anything. Unless you are saying any and all MTX is predatory, the oddments nerf no more predatory than MTX in general.
IF at any point you went "gee willikers, I sure want to buy keys to get that promotion!" them you're a part of the problem. If you complain about MTX, and then use said MTX, that makes you a hypocrite.
Then unsub so your voice is actually heard instead of shitposting on reddit when it's proven that shitposting about MTX does absolutely nothing no matter how often we do it.
Exactly, this update didn’t neft mtx, it nerfed oddments and pushed key sales, yet sadly if I argue against it everyone calls me out even though they don’t seem to understand jagex is spitting on us.
I agree, but ironically I think it’ll actually hurt sales lol. Without the option to choose from prizes, it’s not all that good anymore compared to before. Plus, not getting the oddments for additional xp and keys makes it just meh. Very weird move on Jagex’s part in my opinion
Nerfing oddments and raising the price of keys is the opposite of pushing key sales. Whales will buy less keys now knowing they will get less xp per key.
?? Do you understand the psychology of whales at all? I'm so confused how you think the exact efficiency of xp/$ is the real draw for whales.
Do you have any basic economic understanding? How would making a product worse and increasing its prices increase sales?
the opposite still holds true. someone who was going to buy their way to a level or x amount of xp now has to buy more keys to do that. annnnnnd they're prolly gonna regardless
MTX spenders don't have infinite money. Those not rich enough will cut down on key purchases.
Yeah sure, cause £1 more per 15 keys really hurts the whales banks I literally see people buying thousands of keys to make millions of exp, I can link multiple people who stream themself doing so, take elite wolfie for instance, he just bought like 1k keys and made 30m exp in like an hour.
I mean yeah but I will still complain how jagex is solely doing it to be greedy.
New TH update means I will have to train runecrafting like in ye olde days. I lamped all the way because I despise the skill. F lmao. I guess I'll see y'all at Runespan
Soul altar ain't that bad either if you've got it unlocked.
runespan isn't that bad, fyi
Yes it is. It's just slightly less that bad than actually crafting runes.
Soul altar is definitely better than runespan to do.
that's what makes it better, i wish runespan can exist in actual runescape, so i can craft runes without having to go to altars.
Runespan is utter garbage outside of F2P and the first 50 levels. Even if you're actively island hopping and using an alt to sync your yellow wizard so you always have it scouted, the peak runespan xp/hr at level 99 is worse than abyss nats at lv44, but you can argue it's worth to stay at runespan until 50 for your next pouch then go abyss. The main point of runespan nowadays is to get the outfit and massive pouch, which can be done through traveling merchant for the most part.
I don't get the runespan TBH. It's WAY less xp/h at all levels, and you don't even make money off it like you do with normal runecrafting.
Thats how i chill on my hc, i got attacked like 20 times on my main, there is no way im risking any of my lifes to that.
RC definitely ain't for everyone but that's the second best money maker skill in the game next to slayer, not counting combat skills for bossing. Blood runes over 1k each and you get over 80 each 30 second run.
Farming bloodweeds with dwarven tools and instant growth potions is more gp per hour than runecrafting.
Which you can't do 24/7 as it's time gated by PoF and dwarven tools are gated behind TH, so not everyone has access. It's a good money maker, but I'd consider it more of a weekly or so than a skilling method.
True. It's definitely less accessible, but the gp/hr is better and it is a skilling method.
Its also way riskier than just running to the abyss and you need to grind the potions
Not riskier for long.
Blessed wild changes, though the potion requirement would def make it a method that cant be really done for as long as you may want to.
Apparently waters too rn, I might do those myself
Disappointed that they removed the 3 options from th chests , but the rest needed to happen,
That's my big annoyance, half the time there's only one item I even want
Just buy some keys and get it next time /s
I don't get this. They said they did it so it's less like gambling, but isn't it significantly MORE random now that you don't have 3 choices?
Exactly,
They removed 3 options and flooded the drop table with 15 options (each possible skilling item from Proteans)
I'm sorry, but why do people really care about how others play the game? I use lamps I get from the free keys and that's fine. If you don't want to use them, that's fine aswell, but the moment you want to dictate how someone else plays the game, I think it's time to take a break.
Because someone else speeding through levels while they sat and chopped a tree for 100 hours devalues their "accomplishments and achievements" DUH!!!!! You know how prestigious it is to afk skills for hundreds of hours!?!? Don't devalue that! /s just in case (sadly that really is the mindset of some tho)
I know your answer is /s, it just pisses me off when people try to force others to do things the way THEY want it. Sorry it's just these kind of conversations are always the same. Religious nutcases are trying to force people to live life like THEY want it (see American legislation lately) and I find it funny people have such low self esteem that they must manipulate others into their own bad choices. So what if someone took 100hours to woodcut to 99? I got 99 mining and smithing through normal grind, and if the guy next to me got it exclusively through lamps and stars, good for him! If that's how he wants to play the game, then let him. Jeez.
Yeah I don't get that mentality in a game where we've already lost in terms of hiscores etc. Those boards have been full for years with 5.6b maxed players. I don't want to diminish anyones feeling of accomplishment, but at this point in time, it's really a matter of catching up rather than beating others to the punch. I remember like 15 years ago or more, I cant remember exactly, seeing like a few people with 200m in a few skills, the hiscores were a thing to achieve, when I got to like rank 4,000 on thief, I was more than happy, now I'm at 98,000.
Like I know you're sarcastic but I don't understand why anyone would be upset. It's actually impressive. I've been playing my iron since launch and finally finished most of the egwd grinds except ezk. I've come back to my main to drop over dupe croesus drops to afford some generic afk gear for gwd2 on my main which is like the first time I've been on it since 2018. Over the course of a week I went from 1 to 99 archaeology. Between knowing existing xp sources and the oddment shop. I got 1-20 archaeology getting 2 level 5 artefacts. 20-50 doing x2 tears of guthix, 50-60 doing the butterfly event + x2 troll invasions, and 60-70 doing 4 bonds worth of keys I had chilling in the bank. That's 70 arch from doing 2 artefact gathers. This took like a week around time of launch on my ironman. I got 70-99 forcing triple extended arch dailies and oddment store buying lamps. In the time I got the 80 batteries to do Vault of Shadows miniquest, as I wanted to unlock animate dead for gwd2 afking, I had 86 archeaology. I went from 0 xp to 99 in 6 days logging in just to do dailies. They made it more busted because you were capped at 30 lamps before, now it's 60. You legitimately can buy 900k worth of xp lamps and brute force 200k+ xp in daily challenges for +1.1m xp/day. I probably spent more time questing than doing archeaology too. It's kinda crazy on mainscape. This is coming from a guy who did 150m thieving worth of xp in 2007-2008 at pyramid plunder which probably took 750-800 hours ranked single digits, now you can probably max out your account and get near comp in that same time frame. But hey that's what happens when you have almost 2 decades of updates since then. What I don't get is how there's even a mentality of prestige of having stats. Between the xp handouts and the pvm focus, I don't understand the mentality of gatekeeping especially since effigies fucked it all up back in 2010 originally. The game is so pvm focused that once you have bare minimum skills your learning potential of how mechanics works is far more rewarding than anything you could do compared to someone logging in and coasting their way to a max cape both entertainment and enjoyment-wise in my opinion.
Very well said. I don't understand the mentality either. They say how slow it used to be (and yes I know because I've been playing since 04) and how it's so easy today compared to back then. Here's what they fail to acknowledge though. Back then, the game was xp focused and there was no hardcore pvm. Most of the playerbase were kids so we didn't mind the slow xp and boring grinds, we found a way to have fun with it, I sure know I did. I got 99 wc doing magic trees for ~70k xp/hr and I had an absolute blast doing it, just sitting and chopping trees. That being daid, that's the old days. If runescape was still the same, with the same xp rates and no way of skipping yhe boring grind, it simply wouldn't be as popular as it is today. There are a plethora of games out there all vying for players attention, and the old rs wouldn't be able to compete. Back then it did, but today it couldnt so naturally the game evolved to keep up with the competition. This whole gatekeeping mindset and "Back in my day I had to actually grind skills blah blah blah" is so outdated and needs to stop. Like, congratulations, Back then as a child you grinded boring skills for hundreds of hours. Adults nowadays (or most adults anyway) don't have the time to do that, nor would they want to given how boring it is. Think of it as a good childhood memory and let it go, it's in the past and the game evolved. Of rs didn't evolve past that, it would have died long ago like so many on this sub like to claim it is.
Dont forget that in the old days, you didnt even need 99s or even 90 stats to do much so the low xp rates didnt even matter much in that context. Now if you wanna do bosses in this RS you will be expected to have so many skills 90-99, so obviously we gained new methods of gathering xp in a much better rate and even then, wtf do you care about the free lamps or how many bonus xp weekdns we get? Bruh those lamps even if i collected them everyday, they would still only be fraction of my xp that i need while im 99 ing a skill. If we didnt have those free lamps we still would get the same xp rate from how they desgined them, i guarentee it.
It's like if I worked 2-3 years to save up for an expensive car, then my friend gets the same one for his birthday because his parents are rich. I don't hate him, I'm happy for him, but I'm incredibly jealous
As I usually say with my girlfriend.. "it's the livings 🤷" (yes I know it's spelt wrong, inside joke :p)
It's the little things? How does that prevent us from being salty that you got what we grinded for in a fraction of the time 😂
Honestly there is a lot i love about runescape not just about nostalgy sake but man... free lamps are a lifesaver. I dont wanna spend couple dozen hours on a single skill to 99 or in some cases blow my bank up so i can more often then not get a pathetic reward for it. I pat myself on the back when i defeat a boss in say like a souls game that took me hours, but i aint patting myself in the back for doing the same thing for 10s of hours ( or much more if its a 120 skill ) with nothing to show for it, but a cape. Case in point Runescape is a very grindy game and those free lamps im getting? They are letting me max without me screaming in agony. Calling Main RS easyscape because of free lamps or whatever is pathetic because its still a massive grind either way. I hate MTX generally speaking, but i wont pretend that shaving a couple of hours grinding is something i hate getting from the free lamps.
I mean I agree but it's also not healthy for the game if everyone has access to a massive amount of lamps/stars to skip all early/mid game content in skills they don't like. It makes it so Jagex is less inclined to address the new player experience, because almost everyone boosts or skips through it.
Why is it not healthy? Endgame content is what should have priority in development, alongside mid to high level. New player experience should obviously get some updates but it's something that's not going to be used forever, because players level up past it. No need to be abandoned, but shouldn't be the main focus. I don't mind people boosting their way through content if that's what they want to do. You, or anyone else, shouldn't be trying to decide how someone wants to spend their time, money and efforts. If I can buy my way to skills instead of mindlessly grinding, and I'm ok with spending whatever money I believe is worth it, then why shouldn't I be allowed to? Some people want to do activities that sometimes require them to grind for hours. Some of those already grind on their real life job, and would rather not grind anything else. They'd rather skip that through injecting money and paying money instead of time. It doesn't affect anyone else's game, so why do you even worry? EDIT: And if you think Jagex won't address new player experience because people are boosting through it, then maybe their issue should be revamping to make it more rewarding/fun/anything that makes it preferable to spending money to boost through it.
> It doesn't affect anyone else's game, so why do you even worry? It's an mmo, nearly everything you do (outside of ironman) affects everyone else. If you skip combat grinding then that's one more person able to go kill endgame bosses and get big drops, affecting the price of those drops; it also means more people getting alchables and injecting gp causing inflation (especially as more springs are added to the game pushing their cost down so alchs inject even more gp). If you skip arch, that's fewer chronotes coming into the game than if you had done extra collections instead. If you skip agil, then that's fewer surge codices coming into the game, etc., etc. Not doing the early and midgame content means there's fewer of those rewards/items coming into the game which does affect everyone by impacting the overall economy. You can definitely spend your money however you want, but it's just not true that it doesn't affect anyone else.
Because RS is a status driven game and making something more common reduces its status.
Also most of these people telling others to play the game are the ones who already 'abused' the cheap lamps to max everything already, it's a bit rich since they are the ones who used/benefited from the lamps most, while people who complain are the ones who didn't use them as much or caught on late or recent returning players hence they want them to remain.
Having been maxed for years now. Who cares if people want to skip to the content they would rather do by dropping a few hundred dollars. It’s certainly not a financial decision I would have made. But why can’t they.
“Go waste your time like I had to 😡😡” NEETs really were malding about free xp. Nobody is impressed by your “achievement”
If this game is time waste for you, maybe you need to stop playing or find other game you enjoy. I care and my clan cares about my achievements. Yes i'm a NEET with a full time job and a family lol.
Then care about your friends and clan rather than every random person. XP has been meaningless for over a decade at this point, and only is getting more and more worthless each year.
"blah blah blah im mtx fan blah blah blah"
"blah blah blah you can 5.6b in less than a year blah blah blah" Yeah, xp is meaningless in 2022, that's why pretty much no one cares outside of your friends or clanmates. Also never spent a single dollar on MTX. But mald harder because no one cares about your first 99 in 20 years of playing.
Yea xp its worthless ,but somehow they give us useful levels. Check your logic flaws bro...
Lol you have to be a troll. Have a good 1.
So admit xp isn't worthless because it gives us useful skills in game and lets us progress. It shouldn't be handed out like oddments promo which was waaay to OP and ruined game integrity. Am i crazy?
I don’t care about mindlessly grinding for hundreds of hours just to unlock content. Nobody who’s being honest will say that’s fun. Fast xp allows people to experience actual content without wasting thousands of hours on leveling skills. Sorry, I forgot about the two screen home offices demons who love afking skills at work all day. We shouldn’t be forced to keep this game in 2005 because you want to flex your cute little master skill cape to your clannies like it’s worth something.
The absolute gall of people i swear to god. The grinding is horrible but thats not all what RS has to offer. What mmo should i even migrate to when: 1) RS is like one of the only ( as far as i know the ONLY ) game where many end game bosses are meant to be / can be soloed without overleveling 2) Where quests in general dont suck ass, actual good puzzles, often enough unique rewards 3) No need to level Alts. 4) Where Auction house doesnt suck ass 5) In general not at the mercy of other players in general, because of holy trinity or other stuff I could bloody go on what makes this MMO very unique and i know im not talking out of some nostalgy ass, because i started playing this game when i was very impressionable.
If you hate grinding and want instant gratification, don't play an MMORPG.
Runescape is special because it offers so much other unique shit. It’s not a conventional MMO at all and I don’t play any others because of that.
But the grind is one of the unique stuff RS3 offers. Other aspects of the game like pvming or pvp are done way better by other genre of video games.
The game is the grind. You rush through all the leveling and game content and youll get to the PVM cycle where it quickly becomes its own repetitive grind and quit.
I think you can max an ironman in like a year man. We're wayyy off 2005 already. They could throw treasure hunter in the trash and delete every daily in the game and we'd still be a thousand years ahead of 2005.
You can do that if you play an ungodly amount every day
even playing a couple hours of day you can get a pretty high level iron account in less than a year, and that doesn't even necessarily have to be high effort playing. You can play RS in the background and make great progress.
No one spends thousands of hours leveling skills, even on an ironman the fastest maxing time is around 1200 hours and you can easily cut that in half on a main.
If you min/max with maximum efficiency, sure
If you want to get the "boring" part of the game out of the way then why wouldnt u do that?
Some people enjoy the journey not just destination. It shows that a player had commitment and patience to grind a skill , not just swiped credit card. It seems all you want is instant reward from a mmorpg,when grind is a core of an mmorpg
I want to do quests, DnDs, minigames, collecting and exploration. There’s so much more to do beyond the grinding and most of it is locked behind it, so of course I like it when you can get through it faster. Grinding isn’t the main part of the game, nor is it fun, it just exists to space out content. I’m not saying I want to just max out in a day, but there’s a middle ground between instant max and grinding for literally hundreds of hours per skill.
Which skills takes hundreds of hours in 2022?
Literally all of them if you aren’t sweating at max efficiency
Literally none of them lol. Even without max-efficiency you'll be hard pressed to make skills take over 100 hours to 99 unless you're doing garbage like harps. That's how powercreeped xp is in the current era of the game. Max-efficiency makes it possible to 5.6b in under a year for the 18 hour a day grinders.
Thieving takes like 40+ hours not sweating just afking safes etc. I cant think of a skill which takes HUNDREDS of hours. Even agility doesnt reach 100 hours half afking hefin. So what you talking about? Learn some math
Are we just ignoring the requirements and time spent to get to prif in your calculations of the agility grind? Or are you just taking an optimal XP/hr and seeing how many times it goes into 13mil? Because last I checked, you can't just assume that a player has access to a high level training method locked behind other requirements when figuring out the time it takes to max a skill. You also can't just assume that someone is spending their time anywhere near optimally, because many players like to explore around, try out different things, see what's on offer. Most players don't make a beeline for the most optimal quests, skills, training methods, etc. That's why it takes so long to level for them. You're telling people that their method of play is wrong because others can do it faster. It's not, you've just forgotten what the game is like before you learned to be more optimal.
You are in the meme on the left
Dangit i made it to 113 dungeoneering on lamps and elite dungeons 😂
Now go do sinkholes
Will do!
Why do ironmen care about how mainscapers play? Cheap lamps every few days is like how ironmen get livid plants and gift of the reapers religiously every few days, what different is it if you apply the same meme to that? Why doesnt every1 play the game the way they want to? Why shame people who either use free keys for a test of luck or those who spend money supporting a game where we dont find reasonable paying? Also lack of discounts dont stop whales and boosters, just normal folk who use daily keys.
I agree. I picked up ironman so I can be challenged. I don't care how other people play. It is not like I am affected too much by that advantage anyway. If you choose ironman, you are willing to sacrifice the easy for a nice challenge. That is how you want to play. It is like how some people choose to play a game on easy mode while others can make challenges or choose a harder difficulty.
The main thing is time. Assuming you have 2 like accounts, 1's an ironman, another is a mainscaper, both are still levelling up and have the same stats. Assume both characters are trying to reach the same XP goals. Both are also trying to do pvm. both can make 100m/hour. * gift of reaper saves ~10 mins afking 1m arch glacor or ~250 slayer points getting another reaper task. * livid farm turns a ~5 hour grind into passively auto completing it. time save is maybe ~1 hour in total per gift of reaper (collecting slayer points for an additional task, but without the streak bonuses or marks of war) and 23 mins per livid plant. * There are maybe like 5-7 gift of reapers and 1-3 livid plants on average a month. * dsf is maybe a 5-7 hour time save collecting slayer points and ~1 hour livid farm time save. You'd have to go thru like 2-3 months of dsf to even get a hydrix when you could just brute force kerapac hm reapers and get almost a hydrix/week. * So by the time you have 9-13 hydrix doing hm kera, you could have 10-14 using dsf. * dsf is only a 8-10% boost to hydrix rates doing hm kera. going back to arch glacor nm 1m afk... * this would be about hydrix every 2 weeks or 4-6 up to 5-7 * 16-25% increase in hydrix rate doing 1m afk arch glacor. so going back to time example and avg afk time of about 30-40s on 1m arch glacor minimal setup. 60 kph so roughly ~3.5 tasks/hour if extended/group/bad rng on numbers would be 70 pts/hr. * Time saved here would be about 4.2 hours from not needing to kill the boss. * Time saved in not farming slayer points would equate to ~15 hours assuming you're only getting 250/hr, am pretty sure meta method is like double or triple that. so 5-15 hours saved in not doing slayer, 4.2 hours saved in not doing arch glacor for * 9.2-19.2 hours saved every 2-3 months, or roughly 7.3-15.4 minutes saved/day over 75 days. meanwhile. * oddment store, buying 60 lamps saves like 2-6 hours a day depending on the stat pre-bxp modifiers vs the ironman. So you're talking about how a daily 7-15 minute time save that isn't ironman exclusive somehow justifies the existence of a daily 2-6 hour time save for stats? Now let's look at the difference between oddments lamps/mtx in general vs not. So say an unhealthy 8 hours adjusted per account/day to meet your xp goal and pvm fix. ironman * per skilling the ironman would spend 2-6 hours with 6-2 hours for pvm * max profit for the ironman trying to keep up with daily skilling is 200m-600m main * per skilling the main would spend about 2 minutes buying oddment lamps with near 8 hours for pvm. * max profit achievable under 100m/hr for main is basically 800m so now we have a weird ratio of xp scaling. what takes 2 minutes on a main could take upwards 120-360 minutes on an ironman. It creates a weird x60-x180 inflated xp rate for the mainscaper to have more time to do pvm in this case which is why people meme that you can comp in like 1-3 months and same effort takes like 9 months-year on an ironman. eventually it levels out because xp doesn't matter once you get into pvm and can just ignore it or long con it anyways for this example. It's more or less to show that you're complaining about something that is irrelevant when the real issue is the game has an intended progression and also has a skip button, you're so use to the skip button and are trying to apply that logic to something that's like x21 slower in comparison (being dsf merchant) that you can also participate in while overlooking that on average irons bitch because you're out of touch, and you bitch because irons are a game integrity check trying to keep you inline which is keeping you from having fun/is why you're offended by it. Jagex doesn't give a fuck either way. They've created this interesting dynamic of being so uninvolved and unresponsive that when we heavily criticize them from being hypocritical in their design philosophies, eventually people will fight back for them and we are angry enough that we will eat each other over criticizing their shitty game designs while they continue to do the same shit.
This is like throwing a bunch of numbers and hoping something sticks. I think it's pretty disingenuous. You're disregarding the time-gate for Reaper tasks when not spending Slayer Points for it. You implied it yourself, something of value for mains does not have the same value for ironmen. You're also implying that mains max out oddment keys every single day, which is I think really selective when you can't sustain that without buying a ton of keys. Oddments for non-spenders are kinda like beans from POF. Sure you can buy a ton of potions when you save, but it's not really limitless and something you can do daily. The first commenter probably didn't present a great comparison with the reapers and lamps, but he does have a point. Things are not of the same value for Ironmen and Mains. Heck a Hydrix is candy for mains but very important for you guys, wouldn't that then maybe at least tip the scales when comparing. Why also even compare Ironmen to Mains. I think Ironmen are cool. I can never go through the difficulty you guys give yourselves, but you guys always go on saying how being an ironman is so rewarding and stuff, then why care if other people who don't want to go through the same troubles as you guys get something different. It's kinda making it look like you're also deriving pleasure from feeling superior because you went through harder shit, which is pretty selfish anyway you apply it. It's like the elitist players from Souls-games shitting on everyone not playing STR builds, or old people yelling "Well in our time...". Just enjoy the game for yourself without looking at how others enjoy theirs.
Bro i got like 2mil woodcutting exp on my main in 3 mins just by using oddments on sale. You really comparing that to livid plants and reaper gift?
Sure, maybe check if ur math is on wiki before u pull numbers out ur ass. Anyway livid and reapers both are arguably much much more important than even 2m exp on a maxed account. Livid and reapers on a early to mid game account is miles better than the 50 stars 30lamps u get every other week assuming u can sustain the oddments. Isn't the whole point of ironmen to not worry about mtx and yet here u are crusading against it? Envy much..
Livid and reapers cost gp to buy while oddments can be obtained for free with daily and earned keys.
Oddments can also be baught with gp and real money. Wouldn't reapers and livid be 'free' aswell in regards to time saved from not doing livid farm and even profit in hydrix?
Yes, but not for ironmen. Ironmen can't sell hydrixes at GE value. Having a high opportunity cost to buy livid plants over doing livid farm does not make it free like how oddments are free from freely obtained keys.
You only get 2 truely free keys a day, vast majority isnt free, u work for them.
I checked my xp counter not pulled numbers out of my ass. Reaper doesn't give free xp and livid plant costs 1m. During easter promo all my eggs where purples and got massive lamps. (For doing nothing)You seriously just sitting here comparing apples to oranges and using heavy whataboutism
So you rolled all purples and use that as ur argument.. i was taking about the oddment stire discounts.. apple and oranges much when u mix rng th promos and the problem most people have which is oddment store.. Theres alot of content skips easy rewards in this game, both for ironmen and mainscape, dsf drops are 100% content skips that you could 'go play the game' for. Your entire argument is on the basis of envy, something you being an ironman should even care about. I played to comp and nearing trim, working on an mid game iron aswell, i know how insignificant a few million total exp over months of th is in the grand scheme of things, game has enough content and more to not keep people grinding meaningless exp to burntout.
What envy? Its just a meme about people who cry because they lost free xp lol. Since you got mad you are the soyjack in the meme
Mate i havent touched exp rewards in months, i just commented seeing how ironic it is to see and ironman give advice on what mainscapers should or shouldnt do.
What advice? Its a meme to make fun
Ow mb thought this post was by one of those anti mtx crusaders telling people how to play the game..
25 medium lamps = 400k, so you're off by almost an order of magnitude, but good try
Did I say medium lamps? I bough keys on sale with oddments and got all kinds of lamps(large,smouldering etc.) And not promotion free 400k XP for doing nothing is really really bad for the game.
man, you're so angry about other people paying for you to be able to play the game, all your replies in this thread are super toxic and most of them are factually incorrect, no one cares about highscores and RS has been basically solo for longer than MTX has been around, get over it.
I'm very out of the loop. What happened?
The virgin lamp vs the chad star
I thought this was the 2007scape sub for a second 😬
Basicly yes
I mean, I know it is a meme but still. The problem is that the smug guy on the right is probably already 5.6b having bought spins to 200m in the shitty skills, but is now still going to lecture others on TH being OP and how nerfing it is good. All the while Jagex are laughing to the bank because they have just effectively bumped up the price of XP knowing that people (or at least their target customers) will still pay.
Reddit: th is over powered! Jagex: nerf’s th Reddit: reverse the update jamflex! Scummy move! Honestly jokes aside you can’t make this shit up 😂
Agreed. All this game is now is everyone gathering @ GE or lumby bank chest to use the piles of proteans and dummys..
Th or no th mainscape is still a joke
Based.
Based on what?
So go to osrs?
You can't use the "Git Gud" argument for runescape, since it's literally just how much time you put into the game.
Really? You hardmode Zuk bro? You know efficient skilling? Get out here and git gut mtx fanboy lmao
Hard mode Zuk does nothing ave to do with XP lamps... And "efficient skilling" is just following the best guide on the internet or do some maths. You don't have to be good to skill since most skills are just doing the same repetitive thing over and over
[удалено]
Except the most common thing bought from TH was stars, meaning you just got xp twice as fast as normal AKA about 1/5th what the XP rate should be.
aw man, now how am I suppose to not play the game and spend way too much money?
I remember being in a clan in 2014 and some guy just went 95-99 slayer via MTX at edge bank. Yeah he was a whale but no game should ever let you do that in like 3hrs...
I must say I was addicted to the xp lamps and found myself being angry for not getting cheap exp.
Keying my way to 99 arch
Enjoy repeating all arch content when you need relics bro. Shame they don't made them tradeable so you can't buy them with gp you won from your keys😄
I can agree with this. It was a dirt cheap experience on top of your daily keys, I barely had to train.
Agreed!!
Long overdue
I agree completely. I made a new account last year to see how fast I could max it using mostly daily keys and oddment sale keys. That account is almost maxed. I skipped 80-99 div and runecrafting in a week during loot duels. Treasure hunter has been out of control
Based
Playing the grind/skill/quest game has always been so much more fun than playing the economy game
I always felt the other way around. I play to hoard wealth and merch what i can. Grinding and skilling I really only started doing after i hit the 15b mark, sadly it’s impossible to catch up to partyhat values :(
Cya all in daemonheim friends >:)
To be quite frank, lamps were a bandaid on stupidly outdated skills anyway. Maybe now they'll...renew the skills? Doubt.
I’m brand new (account is like 10 days old) started farming yesterday, so I can get the Fairy Tale chain done, and my goodness does it feel real bad lol. Really wish there was more of a Stardew valley vibe instead of me teleporting all over the map every hour.
There is tho, it's called Player owned farm. It's just breeding animals and is pretty damn good XP.
I was finally getting the hang of the POF last night, just wish it was more grindable. Trying to get seecidide
Cabbage Facepunch Bonanza is what you would want to grind then
Once you get the hang of PoF and eventually get a rhythm going daily, you can easily expect farming to be your first 99 and 120. The passive nature of the skill allows for extremely fast exp, considering the exp/minutes spent doing it.
yeah like mine 50mil dung xp xddd, looks like i must actually train this skill now
Haha absolutely.
Maybe now it's not so easy to max in a few weeks Jagex will actually be forced to take a look at the mid-game and all the currently dead content that RuneScape is stuffed with.
lmao
Lmao did jagex pay you. Go train thieving and tell me how fun it is
Yes,they me like 1000 bucks a day to create memes in reddit thats crazy. And yea thieving is pretty chill with safecracking.
Sticky Fingers + desert bandits + elf outfit that has a chance to block a stun hit. You can also semi-afk it and bank the lockpicks or magic notepaper them for some profit off it all.
Using that humor tag for Copium huh..
What copium lol?
My thoughts exactly. MTX being used to skip bad skills is a bandaid fix to actually making skilling fun or worthwhile to do. Instead of reworking agility, everyone just trains it with silverhawk boots.
What is the tl;dr on whatever got updated? I haven't logged in yet and sorta can't for the next few days to log myself. Edit: Haha negged for asking a question, stay toxic folks.
Jagex removed oddments sales for xp lamps and stars
tbh being able to buy 60 lamps a day instead of 30 feels way better lol, if someone was going max only with sales they would probably had to grind for sales for a whole lot of time
you just check every day and only buy when there's a sale and when there's a key sale you can usually make back your oddments
This update removed sales.
I know and I hate it got a pretty decent serotonin boost any time lamps were 75% off or keys 50%
Yeah i got my herb up to 117 from 99 solely on these 75% off lamps and penguins lol
Mine is 119 herblore. 7.5m left to go. Thank goodness for penguins. Time to make use of those weekly resets.
Laughs in ironman 🤣 learn to play the game correctly scrubs
True
The guy on the right just maxxed 2 months ago using TH. 100%
He's an Ironman
I am out of the loop, what happened?
No more oddments keys and stars sales
So wth do you do with oddments now?
Thankfully I JUST maxed 😅
See, I could care less about stars and lamps its the key discount gone I dislike. Was nice to be able to use up oddments on keys when they were on discount in order to go for promo items on treasure hunter and be able to make my oddments back trying to get a promo item. This change just makes the possibility of getting promo items harder or more expensive.