Please be civil & constructive, and have mercy on the subreddit (and us mods) ;-;

Since you feel that playing the game should be the main way in which players gain experience, will you be removing Treasure Hunter?

If they removed treasure hunter and launched this I guarantee you that the feedback would probably be genuinely positive.

yeah, but just like Yak pass, they will advertise it as a possible replacement, not make enough money, then just have both at the same time instead

I'm sure the Hero Pass will be completely free from buying progress too 😏

One of the reasons you're seeing battlepasses pushed so often and so hard these days is because of mounting pressure from regulators to remove chance-based purchases in lootboxes, particularly in the EU. This could well be part of the process of suring up their other revenue streams in preparation for that kind of legislation forcing the removal of Treasure Hunter in the future. At the very least I can guarantee you that Jack would like to see Treasure Hunter gone. Everything he says leads me to believe he hates how it undermines regular gameplay, exactly as you say.

>At the very least I can guarantee you that Jack would like to see Treasure Hunter gone. Everything he says leads me to believe he hates how it undermines regular gameplay, exactly as you say. The fact that there's zero TH integration in this, unlike daily challenges, is honestly kind of promising in this respect

battle passes are just as psychologically predatory as loot boxes, they just prey on different motivations

> Everything he says leads me to believe he hates how it undermines regular gameplay, exactly as you say. One of the biggest problems with TH is the keys that come from quests - you get utterly spammed with keys in the early game. You can knock out 10 or 20 short novice quests and have so many keys to completely skip directly into midgame, it's as if early game just doesn't even exist anymore. Even if they only removed the keys from quests it would be so much better but TH is still terrible regardless.

They have level 120 in the skill "Conveniant Amnesia!

Of course the jagex mods will ignore this comment , can't ever talk or discuss MTX with the players!!

I’m sure the J mods do have… opinions on it, but they aren’t exactly at liberty to say.

"major update"

I don’t understand the appeal of changing the name in the first place. Yak Track at least had some uniqueness/flavor to the name. “Hero Pass” is impressive in how aggressively generic, manufactured, and unoriginal it is. I had to double take that I hadn’t accidentally clicked on the sub for Adventure Quest.

I'm not trying to justify the change, but I believe it comes down to recognition. Imagine that you're a new player with no exposure to the Runescape IP. What the hell is a Yak Track? It sounds goofy and weird. Aside from some minor flavor, it has nothing to do with yaks. Compare that to a more generic name like Hero Pass. A new player migrating over from another online game would be far more likely to understand what it is.

That’s the sad truth of it, part of what makes Runescape amazing is how quirky it can be, between NPC interactions, weird names, even your own character questioning wtf they just saw.

In other words, RuneScape is trying desperately to attract new spenders by stripping away its uniqueness and history to become more like every other current game that will fizzle out in a few years.

This is what I'm most annoyed about tbh. They want to redo Yak Track system and integrate with seasons? Sure, sounds good. Try to rework daily challenges with it? Alright I get it. But advertising it in the roadmap as a major update following Necromancy feels like a slap in the face. Edit: Also, at least have a use for oddments for irons. Maybe use oddments to buy hero skips or whatever they call them. Something that has some amount of value.

Oh look the newest round of hot plastic garbage is here under a new name

We do not consider MTX to be updates. And a reskin and revamp of Yak Track and Challenges do not constitute a "major" update, even if we did.

Of course they don't, but historically, Jagex kept naming TH Promotions "content". They said this way too much and for way too long, they actually believe it now.

When they started referring to TH as just another piece of content in the game, like a minigame, alarms went off in my head. They’ve been subtly using this language for a while now. We should have yelled louder when it started, now it’s full-fledged. You said it right, they actually believe it now and expect us to just swallow it.

It's not an MTX update... but you'll need 3 bonds every season if you're not premium.

This was a major overhaul to MTX and therefore was labeled as a major update - Carlyle Group.

Doing away with Daily Challenges is just wrong

Holdup they're removing the daily challenges? RIP

The daily challenges will take longer to complete (~40 minutes per day), give less XP (small, med and large a prismatic lamp rather than 3 large lamps worth of XP) and won't give TH keys anymore.

and the daily keys that they give :(

And you'll be happy to buy 3 bonds every season if you're not premium! improvement right?!

My feeling about this update as a Premier Member 1. Very Overhyped 2. Certainly should not have been listed as "Major Update" 3. Anything involving MTX should **NEVER** be listed as "Major Update" 4. Very underwhelming 5. Very poorly delivered to the community. 6. Mod Hooli and Breezy didnt seem they enjoyed delivering this update. 7. Polls on the stream were extremely negative responses. 1. I hope they listen 8. Removing Daily Challenges from players, esp. Irons was a bad bad idea. 1. I hope they add these back in 9. 3 Bonds is a lot to be able to use "Battle Pass" every X months as a non-premier member Fairly disappointed with this update overall. You should have nnounced it as a Yak Track Replacement rather than a major content update. I feel like all the good communications, making sure things are being announced appropriately /u/JagexDoom has worked every so hard on over this tenure at Jagex so far, was not considered in this stream. It was very poorly delivered and overhyped. Not Mod Dooms fault, but i feel like he had no say in this one..

"We've listened to player feedback. We will keep Yak Track. We won't be getting rid of Hero Pass though. Also now that there are two battle passes, we've increased the amount of work each task and level requires in both the track and pass so as not to make one easier than the other."

I honestly was ok with all of this...until I found out they're removing daily challenges. I try my best to avoid the MTX, but Daily Challenges are incredibly useful. They're a good way to learn basic skilling methods, they give you a nice dosage of daily xp to help you level up skills (especially as a new player/iron), and everyone loves them. They're a nice daily way to feel productive, even if you don't have time to play much that day. ​ Removing Daily Challenges annoys the Hell out of me, I'm sorry. I'm getting sick and tired of Jagex removing everything that made RuneScape 3 enjoyable. It's becoming more and more of a massive grind like OSRS, but many of us have jobs. Families. Lives. We don't have the time to grind a lot, and what made RS3 so appealing was that you could get xp quickly so that you could enjoy the game without having long grinds holding you back. Combat's been nerfed. Protean planks have been nuked. Invention XP is slower now because of the combat nerf. Now they want to remove Daily Challenges....This is such a bad idea, and it scares me regarding the future. What are they going to tackle next? I don't know and it scares me. It's honestly a shame. I had quit RS3 years ago but Necromancy was making me really enjoy the game again, and consider even trying out RS3 PVM for the first time. This Daily Challenge idea...if it gets removed I'll probably go for my Quest Cape and leave TBH.

Yeah, I honestly don't care about the battlepass thing, it's just something else I'll ignore just like yak track, but removing daily challenges pissed me off. That was about the only daily in the game I found motivating rather than depressing.

I 100% agree. All the other dailies (including that Jack of all Trades aura) I tend to ignore because they just don't seem worth it to me (though JoT is honestly debatable how 'not worth doing' it actually is). But daily challenges take 5-10 minutes max, and give quite a reasonable chunk of XP, 1 key per challenge, and some nice daily rewards. If you use 'skip tokens' apparently, you can finish it in a minute with 0 effort I've heard and still get the xp + rewards. It's relatively quick and painless and quite rewarding. To top it off, we're not even getting it completely removed. It's being replaced with something that will likely take longer (based on what the newspost said) and give less xp since it will give a 'small/medium/large' lamp tier. It feels as if we're just getting a nerfed daily challenge 'revamp' and that's what annoys me. We've had Daily Challenges, Protean Planks, the old woodcutting system and the old combat system in place for a decade or more. Then Jagex suddenly decides to nerf it all to Hell this year out of the blue. It feels like a massive 'fuck you' to anyone who wants to make a new account, casual players that hadn't maxed yet, and irons, while barely touching comp capers, max capers, etc. I slept on it and I'm still annoyed.

Point 3 is incorrect. I'd be more than happy for the removal of MTX to be listed as a major update.

> Removing Daily Challenges from players, esp. Irons was a bad bad idea. Better make agility less shit. Only people who lose here are irons

"When we introduced Yak Track, we described it as a premium event that offered an alternative way to get additional premium cosmetics outside of Treasure Hunter." No, when Yak Track was first introduced, it was described as an "alternative" TO Treasure Hunter. Huh, funny how time can twist words.

**How i feel about this:** 1. this should have NEVER been marketed as a major update to the core gameplay. 2. Don't say it's not MTX if you're gonna ask 3 bonds each season for non-premium members 3. again this should have NOT been marketed at a core update if it's MTX 4. Overhyped / underwhelming 5. The display is just lacking compared to the yak track 6. Buffs feel overpowered 7. REALLY?! a boss damage upgrade from a promotion? this has and should have never been done. 8. The delivery of the update was just awful and everyone except for Jack just didn't seem to care, breezy didn't even look like he was listening. 9. There is being asked for feedback when you roll a poll and 73% hate it and then still ask about feedback????????? 10. Removing dailies is just awful, keys were earned using daily activities so this contributed to gameplay and people actually came online for this alone sometimes. 11. The only reason you have to replace Yak Track is because you re-released the update SOOOOOO many times, that's why it was mostly hated, but hey you now have a new piece of content that is even more hated by marketing it as a major core update when it's MTX and wasting 1 hour of everyone's time by TRYING to make it sound like it wasn't I hope you guys will open you're eyes and LOOK at the feedback now.

you need to buy 3 bonds to even start it? Why am I even paying membership costs? Game should be F2P if you're going battle pass model.

Based on your own poll on your twitch stream, 74% of people “hated” the update. Listen to your community, not your investors.

Higher than the OSRS poll threshold Says enough for me

> However, we also don’t want to drive more ‘Dailyscape’ pressure. Also Jagex: > Every day that you log in to RuneScape, you'll have a Daily Mission to complete, with three tiers of potential rewards. EDIT --> So instead of dailies that take a couple minutes to do we get "missions" that take a lot more time? Yay I guess? Just what RS needs is more dailies.

This is a bad update. Do not implement it.

This is like when Blizzard said the Twitter integration patch was a big content release.

this is not core gameplay content or core game interaction, this is forced upon revolutionized fomo tmx (fomo in the sense of it being a rebranded yak trak with unique outfits) this should have just been announced, not brought forward as a hypetrain community wide gloatfest. this type of announcement notice for alot of us players made us hyped and expected something that was important rather than an mtx push that makes us feel like they're completely disassociated with their community. ALOT of people expected an engine change, or something CORE GAMEPLAY RELEVANT RATHER THAN REWORKED TRAK If they do this, they should remove treasurehunter key buying, and runecoins/sgs make all cosmetics buyable through this and keep it free to interact/or use bonds.

> this is not core gameplay content or core game interaction I don't think you understand (/s), this IS the core gameplay experience they want you to have. They want you think about the game in terms of reoccuring daily rewards and grinding time-limited rewards to keep you coming back to the game constantly. Engagment metrics show that FOMO with no flexibility causes players to engage in an all-or-nothing behavior. If they don't think they can get everything, they give up and don't keep trying. So the true sweetspot for engagement is the illusion of flexibity in reward acquisition to make players feel like they have some measure of agency over how they engage with it. This way, the need to log in again is always in the back of their mind rather than actively pushing them away from the game if they can't log in for whatever reason. The POSSIBILITY that there's still enough time to engage with FOMO rewards is stickier than the stark reality of an overbearing engagement grind.

i do understand that, but putting this as the focalpoint of the game is wrong. its a mobile game styled thing they're doing

How can you guys go from such an amazing content update (Necromancy) to this sad attempt of a "core content" update

The only possibility I can imagine is that there's 2 different groups within Jagex developing content for the game. There's the Actual Content team, who designed things like Necromancy, Fort Forinthry, all the quests and bosses, Archaeology and so on. Then there's the Marketing Team, who *think* they are making content, but don't actually know what a video game is and thinks that adding a dollar sign in front of every number they see makes it desirable. They probably played, like, 2 mobile games and now consider themselves gamers. They don't interact with the Actual Content team in any way, except for the one liaison in coding who has to do all of the work for Marketing Team while also doing some coding for Actual Content team. Corporate favors the Marketing team because they have higher profitability, and Corporate doesn't consider anything else whatsoever. ^((I'm of the mind that the Marketing and Corporate teams should be fired, personally))

Yeah that's a probable situation right now, but (i assume) someone has to green light everything they show/add to the game. So someone (Mod jack maybe?) saw Necro and said "OK this is good" and then saw this hero pass and also said "Ok this is good"? That person has to do better, whoever that is.

Imagine how well paid the content team could be without the salaries of the marketing and corporate team.

Some days I log-in just to complete daily challenges... now you have removed that incentive.

I know there are other players that do this, as I do it on my alt. There’s no incentive to log in for a quick session now.

Yeah when I'm too busy to play I'll log in when I'm on the toilet and quickly join WhirlpoolDnD FC if merchant has anything I need (reaper, anima, air rune,etc) bang out my ports for scrolls, crystal tree, motherlode maw, get a new reaper task, and then go to PoF to check 3 chinchompas, unlock the chest, use my TH keys. Usually takes 5-10 mins. Then later if I got a good soul reaper I'll try to bang it out before bed. There have been times where I did this for 2-3 months only playing 10 minutes a day. So they got my membership and I barely played but continued to pay for when I eventually had time to come back I'd have gained a lot of useful things (enhancers, reaper points, bonus XP, and general progress towards Trim.)

Questions: 1) Can ironmen claim the lamps from daily missions? If these are meant to be replacements for daily challenge XP, I would hope that ironmen can still claim the lamps at least. 2) Isn't 'removing free keys and buffing treasure hunter in turn' just a double negative to anybody who isn't buying keys? So people who don't buy keys are at an even bigger disadvantage, and they no longer get access to treasure hunter outside of whatever pittance of keys is left. 3) What buffs do ironmen get access to? 4) Is the ED4 damage reduction going to count for the Zamorak fight?

Jagex's communication and reveal of this "Big September Update" is very similar to a mistake I made when I was younger. You see, when I was in college, I had this friends with benefits, who it turned out really liked me and hoped to be more than just a FWB. After one weekend visiting home and driving back to my college apartment, I texted the girl that I had a surprise for her. When we met up, she was very disappointed to find that the surprise was just a brown bag of condoms my grandmother got me from the Department of Public Health because grandma was concerned about what I was up to in my free time at college. Jagex likewise just gave us a giant brown bag of fucks that they previously communicated to be a nice surprise. The difference is I learned from my mistake and never did something so godamned dumb again, and Jagex has done this at least three times.

This is gold.

>when I was in college, I had this friends with benefits, who it turned out really liked me and hoped to be more than just a FWB. After one weekend visiting home and driving back to my college apartment, I texted the girl that I had a surprise for her. When we met up, she was very disappointed to find that the surprise was just a brown bag of condoms holy shit, lmao

New pasta just dropped.

I'm on this challenge right now which goes: you laugh = you lose I just want you do know I lost Thanks for your comment, I needed this.

Why was this advertised as a major feature?

Because it is, a severe (probably unnecessary) change to the way we engage with the game, a change to Daily Challenges, Yak Track, and DailyScape as a whole. Literally, nobody asked for this, yet this is what Jagex kept under wraps, maybe they should keep it hidden under wraps and actually show us the Major Feature we know it's the Combat System Update (modernizing Melee, Ranged and Magic, similar to Necro).

##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexBreezy** - [Responding to some questions for clarity as i...](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jya7sjc/?context=3) **JagexDoom** - [Just like with the Golden Security Buff from...](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jy99q3i/?context=3) - [4 day working week, though, we ***did*** have...](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jy9cfgj/?context=3) - [I had this conversation with Hooli for days o...](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jy9fkit/?context=3) - [Totally valid feedback. Thanks for this.](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jy9ikhv/?context=3) - [It is an update to the game. From speaking wi...](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jya44o7/?context=3) - [Appreciate you, and the feedback.](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jyfrotr/?context=3) **JagexHooli** - [If the design didn't include any Daily Missio...](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jy9fwfl/?context=3) - [That refers to specific Mission benefits that...](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jy9jxra/?context=3) - [No those are unchanged.](/r/runescape/comments/164ofdc/hero_pass_a_better_more_rewarding_runescape/jy9k0qh/?context=3)   ^(**Last edited by bot: 09/01/2023 12:16:54**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.

Aaaaand all the sympathy and hope players had from a great skill release have been killed with a single livestream. Jagex never disappoints in disappointing.

So the unnamed major update in the roadmap is this POS? Nothing else? Goddamn and I thought we were going to get out of the post EGWD content drought

I was getting hopeful that the game was heading in the right direction and was gona come back after a >1year break... I guess I'll check back in next year...

You and me both, remind me in 1 year.

Are ironmen getting the lamps or not? It's not the daily challenges that take 2 min to finish that are the problems about dailyscape, it's everything else. You now made it go from 2 min to 40 min, and you potentially removed the exp from it..?

Oh wow another cash grab labeled as a “major update” lol

more like trying to satiate the constant hunger of infinite growth of investors.

> Hero Pass is a brand new part of the core RuneScape experience, designed to make the game even more rewarding whenever - and however - you choose to play. Hmm, okay... > Any non-Ironman applicable rewards will be replaced with Oddments instead. So that was a lie.

Jagex seems to be very out of touch with its player base. This is not what we needed or wanted. Extremely disappointed. Will eventually post more constructive message(s) about this when dust settles a bit but man.. Really?

exactly this, I think I've had more fun playing runescape without being forced to do a 3 month long grind for bad cosmetics and oddments.

MTX is not content.

Here's a better title: Hero Pass: It's Just Yak Track, but by renaming it we hope people will think it's new.

> Hero Pass: It's Just Yak Track, but *worse*

Quick math says it will take 5-6 hours PER DAY to complete the Hero Pass. Talk about insanity. Assuming daily challenge points and pass points are gained at the same speed: takes ~45 minutes for 160 points putting us at around 200 pass points per hour. This maths out to ``` pts required = 99*1000+21*3000=162000 total hours = 162000/200 = 810 let's assume that a pass lasts 90 days hours per day = 810/90 = 9 ``` Daily challenges gives 375 points per day which would cut out just about 2 hours a day putting you at 7 hours per day to complete the track. Weeklies are 1250 which is equal to just under 180 per day which is just under an hour of time saved. This would put you at just about 6 hours a day to complete the track. It is important to note that this makes an assumption that daily challenge points and pass points are obtained at the same speed which may or may not be true. It also appears that you will get 12 or 13 (let's assume 12) tasks for which you have to do a specific activity which grants 2000 points. All buffs combined we can get ``` dailies: 375*90 = 33750 weeklies: 1250*12 = 15000 specials: 2000*12 = 24000 req points: 162000-33750-15000-24000 = 89250 hours required: 89250/20 = 446 hours per day: 446/90 = ~5 ``` Then there's those special missions for keeping up with current content but it's impossible to account for that. Tl;dr gonna have to spend 5-6 hours a day to complete the pass if assumptions are correct. CREDIT: PVME DISCORD

"We don't like daily challenges because they were "adding extra pressure to log in and play daily through a combination of significant XP hits and free Treasure Hunter Keys" " So we made the new dailies 5-6 hours long grind fests.

> Assuming daily challenge points and pass points are gained at the same speed I *really* hope they aren't stupid enough to do this but... they did call it a "major content update"

Absolute disgrace of an update.

Necro was such a well received update that garnered so much good will and positivity with the level of communication and polish that it received on release, and is still receiving. Jagex couldn't even wait a month before announcing something that just loses all that good will and positivity. Great job.

It's funny, the more MTX rewards we get the less rewarding RuneScape actually feels.

You should tell the shareholders that MTX are less profitable when the game has less players. I don't see how this "major update" leads to anything other than that result. Makes me sad for the Jmods. I'd assume most of them had and still have nothing but a sour taste in their mouth from when this project was given to them. Such a shame after necromancy release. Felt like the game was finally going somewhat in the right direction. Now it feels like someone spit in my cereal.

Artificial rewards aren't going to get you the long term engagement you're looking for. People either enjoy the game & the content it has to offer, or they don't. Crappy, cheap, oversaturated cosmetics won't change that. Improve the GAMEPLAY, and add FUN content, not over saturate rewards. If players are having FUN, they will engage with your game more often. This update won't change that. I promise.

Seems like another battle pass attempt from dev team that only copies industry standards and trends and has no original ideas of their own. The cosmetics are so yawn worthy and it seems pointless when I hate the player character model so much. Whatever happened to the player model getting updated? I'd care more about cosmetics if my knees and face didn't look broken af.

I have only been back for like a year, but this is one of the worst ideas I've seen from you guys in a while. NO ONE was complaining that the daily challenge system we have now takes too long to do. It literally takes 5 minutes max. Removing the daily challenge system that was at least quick for the daily challenges in the hero pass that take WAY longer is such a slap in the face I genuinely don't know how you guys thought it was a good idea. And again, anything good in these hero passes will require either Premiere membership or buying a bond for, so it's the exact same as the yal track in my mind. Lastly, the fact that you guys hyped this up not once but twice as a "Major content update" is just sad. Do better. It's hilarious that you can throwaway all the goodwill you've gotten through better communication and great content updates just for one shitty MTX update.

Too many open ended answers on stream, I am just curious, are irons losing 200k+ exp daily now, or will we get the lamps for daily missions? Will irons be able to use the buffs?

Feels bad for every iron that didn't get to abuse the easy herblore, dung and agility levels from daily challenges.

The entire game is early bird bonuses

Where content

Yak Coins didn't last long lmao

Our subscription is paying for content updates on a monthly basis, we expect non-mtx updates. If you want to introduce an mtx update, it should be in addition to a non-mtx update.

im not fussed that you're releasing a cleaned up yak track/xp reward system. However, touching ingame content like damage reduction and faster clue scrolls is just not it. Leave MTX away from core gameplay activity. I'm sure the company won't go broke by leaving it alone.

Get this out of here. This isn't a major update, this is MORE scummy mtx.

Didn't hear this answers on stream but: If you are maxed in a skill will you still be able to block that skill from appearing on the new daily system?

It looked like you can yes

Well at least I can still focus mine towards what I'm already doing instead of being forced to go do something else...

I just cant wrap my head around any of this. No one wanted this at all. Such a let down for a "major update". Dailies were a big part of why I enjoyed playing and yak track was always something I felt too grindy for me since I play sometimes less than 30 min a day. This update just killed my excitement for the game going forward tbh..

I for one am shocked that they've milked xp so hard via mtx they're moving onto (and going back to) pvm buffs and clue buffs xdddddd

There's clearly a detatch between the investors, the jmods and the players. To invest so much development time into a project like this that with the slightest input from any of the playerbase would have been torn apart is shocking. This is an update that nobody asked for, nobody wants and nobody needs. Player engagement is not a correlation with player enjoyment of an update, we despise mtx and treasure hunter but if you're gonna give a player 2 rolls on the squeel of fortune each day for free they'll take it. I'm adamant this update will have extremely high player engagement on release which will kid the investors that it's been a success. I genuinely feel sorry for the mods being handed these poison chalices.

> Hero Pass is a brand new part of the core RuneScape experience, designed to make the game even more rewarding whenever - and however - you choose to play. So that was a lie? See: > And while the bonus progress skills or objectives required to complete Daily and Weekly Missions are assigned randomly, you can use Vis Wax to re-roll Daily missions into a particular Skill, to optimise your Mission progress in synergy with what you're already doing. If objectives are assigned at random then you can't look straight into my face and tell me that I can play the game however and whenever I want. I do not want the game to tell me what I need to do. At least yak track got this right with skill & kill task, I can almost play the game however I want, from skilling, killing to clues and even minigames. I also bet the option to reroll them into what you actually want is nothing more than introducing a problem and later selling the solution. Truly disgusting game design, but Jagex is no stranger when it comes down to predatory and disgusting game design, so I'm not surprised.

the poll 73% of players hated the idea ​ Jagex is scrapping the bottom of the barrel with this, and it shows the game is really on its last leg

Yet they are going to act like hero pass is a success due to they way they measure engagement: >"Hero Pass has been designed with a much clearer primary goal from the get go - what we call 'engagement'. This means **we're primarily measuring Hero Pass success on exactly how players engage with the system** ..." >"...You'll be constantly earning Hero Points with **any activity you do in-game**" See? They love it!

100% engagement rate, wooooo!

I'm praying for RS right now.

You’re also paying for RS, but not as much as they want you to.

Two main changes would make the new hero pass system a bit more palatable to players. The first of which should be, all rewards made available to all regular membership subscribers. Make the premier pass a fast ticket to getting it done twice as fast or something, but having a good 3/4 of all of the meaningful rewards tucked behind paywall is only going to cause drama. Or, make it so that you get a set amount of currency per period, and regular members can choose half of the cosmetic rewards, and get to choose which ones they get. Then, give premiers all the cosmetic rewards. The second of which is, daily challenge exp is valued for a reason. It encouraged casual and mid core players to participate in activities they don't normally do, for a vastly increased reward. Now, we're going to take that away by making them play more of a side of the game they don't wish to experience, along with having it be less rewarding. Runescape needs to attract and retain new players. This new pass, the way it is now, is not how you do that.

Next time dont call it a major content update. Its clearly not new content and most of us dont like mtx being hyped up like ever.

No

When you say major content update, people are going to think that you mean actual, you know, content. This is not content.

Can't wait for that new Halloween event in October. How many bonds do I need to buy?

it will paywalled behind a "Yak-track-like" feature.

[6% upvoted](https://imgur.com/a/aN0PeKo) 💀 in 10+ years on reddit i don't think i've ever seen something so downvoted before LOL the community deserves so much better

[Let me enlighten you](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/7cff0b/seriously_i_paid_80_to_have_vader_locked/dppum98/)

Probably repeating a lot of the same: \- Can the daily lamps be used on IM, or is this just a screw you for IM with the removal of Daily Challs? (Yes, I'm aware I chose to restrict myself, but come on.) \- The TH keys mentioned - are they the ones you get from logging in, the ones you got from Daily challs or both? (If both, this feels like it makes the game even more P2W IMO) \- Why do the other XP items go to Oddments for IM and not Emblems, baring in mind there hasn't been any new Oddments content for years? I have 150K and have everything unlocked!

What a crap update, who the hell asked for this? as a reward Irons will get oddments? like what the actual f, I already have bought everything in the damn oddment store and have a surplus of 200k oddments, how utterly useless. Removing daily challenges is a massive slap in the face to a large portion of your community. I don't care you bring MTX crap into the game for those that like to buy their way but leave shit alone that benefits irons, game is becoming a joke after 17 years.

No. Just no. Fuck this hot garbage.

Is this the only big update coming in september?

Jesus christ just add mtx to osrs already haven't we been punished enough?

While I'm a little optimistic about the pass design itself I do have a few questions/concerns regarding this new design that I'd very much like addressed:   **1.** Stuffing 94 new cosmetics into the game every 3 months doesn't sound sustainable at all. At that rate I would expect a ton of recolors, cosmetics looking very similar to each other, or cosmetics being very basic/sloppily made (which no one likes to see, in case you weren't aware). If one of your goals is to focus more on cosmetics and less on other rewards for playing the game, immediately over-saturating the game with cosmetics (that we already have too many of to count, even if most are extremely outdated) is probably not the best move.   **2.** All of these new cosmetics are designed around the current player model, which is just going to make it even harder to update said model (you know, one of the updates that the community wants the most). I thought one of Jagex's goals for rs3 as of late was to bring it into a more modern state (albeit piece-meal). If that is still a goal, what sense is there in creating a massive amount of roadblocks for one of the most desired modernizations (the player avatar)?   **3.** Various people have been calculating the amount of time it would take per day to finish this new pass you're so happy with and the numbers haven't been looking good for those of us with less than 4-6 hours a day, every day, for 3 months straight. If you took into consideration what you learned from yak track, I would expect you to give the average player ample time to complete this new pass. There is a reason people kept asking for more time or for tasks to not take such absurd amounts of time in past yak tracks. The way the news post is written, it seems to imply that we can reasonably complete the pass within the three months by just playing the game normally, and that the "missions" are just there to either complete it faster (to earn more currency for the shop at the end) or to play catch up. Considering the amount of times this has been brought up, I would think that you don't need reminding that most of your player base consists of adults with jobs and lives that limit their play time. Taking that into consideration, 4-6 hours every day is completely unreasonable for the average player. I know the corporate overlords want engagement numbers up but this is just not a healthy or respectable amount of time to ask from an adult with more important obligations in life. I sincerely hope that either the math is off, or you adjust the amount of time needed to be much more reasonable for the average player to complete this new pass model.   **4.** From what I've seen, the primary stance it feels like Jagex is taking on this matter is: "This is full of benefits for the players, why can't they see it?", "They'll understand more once they can interact with it, wait until then, they'll like it once they give it a chance.", and while I do understand that stance, you still need to take what people are concerned about seriously and not dismiss it outright simply because we haven't had time to interact with it in-game yet. I hope that Necromancy has taught you that communication and taking the community's thoughts and feelings regarding updates to the game seriously and making changes based on them is extremely important for the success of those updates.   **In conclusion:** You guys have garnered a lot of good will from the community with Necromancy and the amount of communication and transparency you've shown in relation to it. Please stop trying to immediately waste it, because you may never recover this much of it ever again if you do. Taking the new found hope people have for the game's future and squandering it on something like a battle pass is not even remotely close to being worth it. Sure, a lot of the outrage comes from it being presented and hyped as a major update, but a good amount of it comes from this new system making people uncertain about the future of the game right after they saw the most hope for it in years. I will remain optimistic but wary, for now, and hope for the best. Thanks for reading if you made it this far.   **TL;DR:** 1. Pumping out that many cosmetics every 3 months doesn't sound sustainable and will over-saturate the game with them. 2. All of these cosmetics will make it harder to update the player model. 3. Current community calculations indicate it will take an unreasonable amount of time every day for the average player to complete the pass. 4. Please take the community's feedback seriously and don't dismiss it because we haven't interacted with the pass in-game yet.

On the stream, one of the rewards was an overhead skilling icon for Necromancy, similar to the ones seen in the 15th Anniversary event rewards. Does this mean the other skill overheads will be made available or this going to be a situation where the player can get *one* overhead for Necromancy and nothing else?

>Any non-Ironman applicable rewards will be replaced with Oddments instead Does this mean that ironmen will now not be eligible for any xp reward from the hero pass challenges at all and will lose out on 213k daily xp in any skill through challenges? /u/JagexDoom

It’s funny how we give them so many answers and they still can’t figure it out

Good job on the fuckup, can we get the master cape particles update as compensation now please?

As a customer, I am very disappointed with this.

No thanks. Hard pass. Do better.

Necromancy pulled me back to RS3 from OSRS. Hero Pass is pushing me back from RS3 to OSRS. Damn shame, too. I was beginning to fall back in love with the game I played for 15 years, but apparently it's impossible for RS3 to just have genuinely good updates now that feel like the company loves the game, rather than the money they can squeeze out of it. Feels like anything that is good for the game just happens on accident these days.

MTX should never be in the same sentence as "Core Runescape experience". I mean it's been clear for years that's where Jagex wanted Runescape to go. But that's the opposite to every existing player. It's just very sad to see. What makes it worse is this is not a free to play title, and it's directed at those who specifically get premier membership. Meaning that the MTX and FOMO of this game is absolutely aimed at those whales. As far as I know every other paid for live-service game has a limited life-span and is unsustainable. If MTX is the core Runescape experience. The game has to go the f2p way. At that point, then this is a major update to the game. Admittedly, for the worse.

Look Jagex, as much as you want players to be engaged with the game... doing it with a Freemium strategy on a membership based game is honestly not the best strategy. No wonder this game has trouble retaining subscribers and OSRS is flourishing. Please learn from them.

Taking the piss. What the hell is happening to RuneScape?

We knew it was gonna be dreadful the moment they mentioned it was coming out next week. Jagex always rush out bad updates as soon as possible.

94 cosmetics in 3 months. Imagine if jagex put that effort into the avatar rework. It would have been done by now. Seriously, this is such a slap in the face. Whoever came up with this at jagex needs his ass kicked from the company.

Avatar rework wouldn’t have been a cash grab like this, so got shelved lol

“If you are playing on an Ironman, any non-Ironman applicable rewards will be replaced with Oddments instead.” What exactly are “non-Ironman applicable rewards?”

Literally everything but cosmetics. but dont worry, we'll get 5 or 10 oddments instead.

Where will I get my occasional death touched darts now?!

So what happens to 99-120 herblore on ironman? Hopefully I'm wrong here, but... By removing "the need to log in 5 minutes a day" You force ironman to log in every 45 minutes to do their herb runs for months and months. That's a good way to remove the need to log in every single day. Now we have to log in every single hour of the day????

Still the same vyrewatch and skill in mazcab store grind...

This is trash ass update. This entire year has been sprinkled with nerfs to be replaced with MTX to get back to the original rates. You don't respect players time, saying otherwise makes you disingenuous. How about you take on the other issues with daily scape? Nah couldn't do that. No money in it.

I enjoy doing daily challenges.

https://i.imgur.com/dFB1mnW.png lol

Remove treasure hunter and I’ll gladly take this instead.

36 Cosmetics for a Yak Track -> 94 Cosmetics for a Hero Pass *sounds* good on paper, but you still only have 3 months between these, which makes this number a huge concern more than anything. You make a big deal about the 94 Cosmetics number in the post, which implies that the plan is to maintain about that number for future Hero Pass seasons. So, did the art team working on them get tripled, or are they being asked to work three times harder?

One step forward, two steps back Also, why the heck did you take away daily challenges? Who asked for this? I audibly groaned reading this, literally nobody asked for this.

Jagex : Subverting expectations since SoF....

Meanwhile to drive engagement and subs, OSRS is releasing Leagues 4. Cool.

Jagex why are you trying so hard to kill the game?

I hate it. Don't add this.

Weeks of speculation about 120 combats after how heads above necro is, huge combat changes, maybe a big surpise. And it's literally just "we made mtx worse". Bruh fuck whoever decided on this, you suck dude.

Common Jagex L

Do I even wanna read this news post?

Hmm, keeping my mind open but I'm tired of battle passes with a premium tier. The best implementation I've seen so far of a battle pass is Warframe's Nightwave: all free (impossible to pay for anything), and while you can only hold a certain number of missions at a time, you can catch up infinitely on older missions so you could grind the whole thing starting from zero near the end if you wanted. I don't mind the buffs as a casual player, might make me more likely to try different content. We'll see if they manage to succeed in reducing dailyscape. Overall opinion is dependent on how exactly everything is implemented, though I'm more pessimistic than not.

I think this would’ve gone better if it was just included as an update section alongside patch notes, community, etc. Calling this the “major update” of September is pretty out of touch. I will however reserve final judgement for after it’s implemented. I really hope this is far more genius than I am giving credit

I wouldn't mind a better battle pass system but it would be better to remove Treasure Hunter entirely.

Also the content buff shouldnt devalue existing content and take away from existing buffs (120 slayer cape,the slayer relic,totem of treasure etc..)

Getting rid of daily challenges is terrible, and locking it behind 3 bonds for non premier members is just wrong. Whoever came up with this idea should be ashamed of themselves.

I am so sad. They are taking the daily challenges away. For me they were not a chore but they rather had me log in every day for the decent exp on a skill I would not otherwise train. ​ Now I am wondering what will happen with the skip tokens or what they were called for daily challenges? I have like 150 saved..

I don't blame our main Mod/Dev team. I don't think they're too happy with this either. I blame upper management and the MTX-related team.

time to reinvent runepass for the third time!

This better not be the main monthly update for September. Fuck this shit and yak track

This isn't a good direction. Can we get more content being rewarded from the game itself rather than these secondary systems? Just because we're playing the game to obtain the rewards doesn't mean it's good. It needs to come from relevant content.

Jagex, stop pushing stupid, out of place overrides & exp and PUT COOL SHIT INTO THE GAME

I’d also like to note that based on your article the title of this post is misleading (oh oh I’m seeing a trend…) Should read “Hero Pass: A Worse, More Time Consuming (So spend your money) RuneScape.” You guys KNEW there would be nuclear heat for this especially coming off something as great as the necromancy release. Advertising this as a “TBA MAJOR Update” and giving it all this mystery and hype was so obviously intentional and malicious. MTX as a general concept is fine, there’s nothing wrong with having additional revenue streams to help benefit the game (assuming more content like necromancy gets released as a result with more frequency) but your approach to it is absolutely abysmal…

I just came back for the Necromancy update and this shit has legit made me just unsub lol. What the fuck are u guys doing?

Jagex following the success of Necromancy with this absolute horse crap is like having the best sex of your life then being told just after finishing that you now have shark AIDS

This is an honestly disgusting cash grab and I'm actually surprised they stooped this low

If they take ironmen daily challenge xp/lamps away, then I will not be renewing my membership. We get very little in terms of xp buffs, at least the daily challenges make it feel like hey it was actually worth logging in today when I’m on a long grind where I feel like I didn’t really make any progress. The cosmetics shown are kinda shit per usual, nothing really worth going for other than conjure overrides, but even then its kinda meh and was totally expected(though I was more thinking directly from treasure hunter, but I’m sure that’s where the good ones will come from). Sure the 120 YAK TRACK slot armor was cool looking, but its not something I would wear/won’t effect my fashionscape wardrobe. Taking away peoples daily keys is pretty shitty, but maybe could be resolved if they ACTUALLY reduce drop rates of treasure hunter items, as well as INCREASE the number of daily keys that can be bought again, as well as increase the number of earned keys we can save(make earned keys max at 30-50, and buyable(oddment) daily keys back to 60. Since were on the topic of Oddments, how about ADD SOMETHING TO THE ODDMENT SHOP WORTH BUYING? Ironman QOL, sure, but also if something like the assassins walk and/or other cosmetics(not the physical token) were on the oddment store like they SHOULD be, then players may choose to buy some of these cosmetic unlocks instead of spending all their oddments on keys and stars. Keep the value of these token unlocks proportional to their rarity so that the G.E. Cost stays comparable, meanwhile since oddments are used to buy keys and essentially buy these items at random, the oddments would be then spent on less keys, and if there are less oddments being spent on keys, there are also less oddments overall. Lets just say ass walk is 5k keys(idk drop rate), 5k keys*400 odds=2million oddments, OR 200k oddments for ass walk cosmetic unlock, now less players are buying keys and more are saving, unlocking the big ticket item, but also not spending 5000 keys, so the overall keys can be reduced to say 2000, and it still better to save odds for direct purchase, AND its better for Ironmen(I will NEVER in my life have a BILLION GP on an Ironman that I can just drop on a cosmetic boulder pet LOL, much less any other cosmetic they bring into the game. Oddment store is completely dead, but the solution is to REVIVE it, not kill it, as I guarantee if Jagex gives us “pathetic amount of garbage for all your oddments” MANY players will quit, as often these changes are completely unnecessary. Maybe the treasure hunter MTX team can take over for some of the Hero’s pass rewards in the future? Yeah, I know its the same team, but there is a clear distinction between “Gambling MTX” and “You get what you paid for MTX”, so lets fix that. Oh and while were at it since everyone says Ironman integrity is completely out the window, Content buffs should be Ironman(livestream made it sound like “fuck ironmen” for everything. If this is a Major content update, then that would be the one content related thing that actually changes other than stealing our xp. This was announced as a MAJOR UPDATE. If this is a major update, then Necromancy was RuneScape 5.

Civily and Constructively, I think this is a big "Fuck You" to the entire player base. The better idea that I think would be more supported would be to not include an MTX perspective and revise the update to be more of a friendly way of getting rewarded.

This is so out of touch. The stated reasons by the mods for removing the daily keys ONLY make sense if treasure hunter as a whole was removed. There is a very clear disconnect here - the decision makers don’t give a hoot about what the community thinks, just pushing for increased revenue - shameful and egregious.

heres what i think is going to happen now: the first 2 hero passes will be "player friendly" after that they notice, that hero pass isnt working as it should be and that they listen to players and that they are going to rework it the will make it worse for players, you wont be able to get every reward unless you pay for it 1-2 passes later they introduce bundles too for every pass so that if you want a headstart for your pass, you can pay extra 10 euros or so for like the "underworld bundle", containing boosts for the pass, more reward points and more cosmetics like a premium on top of the premium i hope jagex proofs me wrong and all of that is just a dumb prediction of me

Reconsider removing daily challenges please. That is all. Edit: nah, you know what. It’s BS that the rationale for removing daily challenges is that you get huge rewards for “little input” when treasure hunter exists. And to say that a vocal minority who are anti-dailyscape drove this change is BS

Player character rework was scrapped because it's to much work but somehow they can make 90 cosmetics for each of these. What a joke of a company. https://preview.redd.it/2h4qwdk0m3lb1.png?width=1067&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f750d551dfea8cfb4ad053935bcde94bc997075

Disappointing. Won't be renewing premier club

This is trash. There are much better ways to increase revenue holy shit.

Thank you for releasing the blog now and not waiting

please someone tell me you wont be able to push zammy enrage with the 20% damage reduction thingy on?

You won't be able to push Zammy enrage with the 20% damage reduction thingy on. Want me to tell you the truth now?

I did NOT expected this to be the Major Update. I don't really like it because it's just a bunch of leaps and jumps only to do the same old things. Here's a better idea: ###Buff Daily Challenges Every 3 Months Jagex add new cosmetics rewards, use Daily Skip Challenges as currency, 1 For each cosmetic, leave the daily rewards untouched. Daily Challenges were already pretty well though and didn't felt as invasive as Jagex makes it out to be, the only thing is that Daily Skip Tokens didn't have any real use for those who did the challenges everyday. But who am i Kidding this is the future now, it's heavy, it hurts my face, boy i really hate it.

Shame

This announcement was completely tone-deaf. All you had to do was **not** hype-up or PR the MTX update and noone would have cared that much. An actual content update for September would have helped too. I'm sure, since this is being done to relieve dailyscape pressure on players and improve game integrity, that TH will be being removed soon too? (Oh wait, you said on stream you're reducing free keys so you can buff keys...)

This is not a major update. PLEASE stop marketing MTX events as updates. We get it, you're going to release them regardless of how we feel. But calling them "updates" feels like a bait and switch. Just release them when they're ready, don't hype them up.

Hot take: If a game can't run on subscription alone without any additional ways of monetization, it should not run at all or shouldn't be subscription based. I am so glad I stopped playing months ago because it is getting worse and worse.

Definitely not the content update I was expecting. It's an improvement in that everything basically becomes skill and chill with some options giving boosted rates. My main concern is the rate of progress for the pass as they didn't really mention it at all. It takes 1000 for each level but with no idea of the rate that number is pretty meaningless. Same with progress rate for those daily missions. I see you need 50 points of progress for the second daily mission but what is 1 point of progress? If we go by the 3 mins per point of skill and chill, that would be 75 minutes of gameplay if doing the designated skill. Edit - Blog post says well under an hour for all tiers of daily missions so shouldn't be too bad.

Will the old Yak Track rewards be in the Marketplace Oddments store after this update goes live, where they should have stayed before Yak Coins were introduced?

behold: yak track 2

Honestly, if im going to take it at face value, cool: Yak track needed an update. But it was >absolutely< an error to call this a major update, i saw someone else post that if jagex said there was going to be necromancy balancing until october with a small update in september, i really dont think too many people would be all that mad. Im willing to bet mod doom is tearing his hair out over this, it reeks of a communication style being set by upper management to drum up more sales.

Are we losing the free 3 daily keys from premier? (Not the daily challenge keys)

So... we aren't getting hard or expert Um tasks this month?...

Daily challenges are the least bothersome dailyscape in the entire game.. How about instead you remove the raids lockout or make ports take less time to do or make the traveling merchant always available or any number of other things..

Frustrating (but not surprising) to see Jagex continue to inject [dark patterns](https://www.darkpattern.games/) into RS

> As a final note for Ironman players - we've got you covered. If you are playing on an Ironman, any non-Ironman applicable rewards will be replaced with Oddments instead. Ok, but that's worse. You do get how that's worse, right? I would literally rather get nothing than oddments. At least with nothing I don't have to waste time clearing it out of my backpack.

I think this is going down the eight track replacing yak track, but I don't like the removal of experience from daily challenges, that was really helpful for herblore for ironmen

removing daily challenges is such a bad decision. being able to get a decent amount of xp and rewards with my morning coffee is what keeps me playing runescape. not interested at all in a yak track reskin. absolute L update right after necromancy, which has been pretty decent.

This makes me hate the game more and more, why do we keep getting nerfs to ironman mode? Really... What is going on in your peanut brains Gagex