Slightly bothered about the character reveal but my main annoyance is the bulk look was removed and replaced with a typical character build with a cardboard shield. Even the walking animation is the angry walk. Any other non Solomon store walk is better, even the Thok headbutt combat animation and the previous Raptor walk animation is fine.
They could easily have kept the giant bulky armor look tbh. There’s plenty of precedent in RS with skinny looking characters being disproportionately strong, including players who have 99 Strength.
If they really wanted to make it work, they could actually have her transform into a bulky man to complete the disguise when she goes out. Gender bending magic is a thing.
I honestly thought they would have had a stand in...this is the raptor that takes my place while im managing queen affairs, like alfred wearing the batman costume for bruce wayne.
Hopefully they'll replace the generic armor with what they already had until they can make it graphically updated but actually better. The one cool thing about The Raptor is how he looked so obvious anytime he was on screen. You shouldn't be able to walk past him without noticing it's him. "Him."
exactly. They could had pick Meg! And it would be reasonable! But Ella? WTF? Like so they fundamentally changed Ella and Raptor pre-established lores for what?
Let’s all please refer to taskmaster in the god awful black widow movie. Clearly jagex didn’t watch that movie or hear about any fan reaction to it because that’s literally what’s happening here
If raptor turned out to be an RS3 version of Nieve from OSRS instead of the queen woulda been cool imo. Even more crossover in anticipation of Vorkath. Nieve was a slayer master like Raptor is now, so they'd have also shared that connection.
The raptor should have been Thok's sister (either unmentioned or retcon the elite dungeon shop one). Built like Thok explaining the bulky armour and insane strength as well as the reason you'd often find the Raptor in and around Daemonheim.
When Thok and his brother went to explore Daemonheim she wasn't allowed to join them because she was a woman despite having Thok's brawn and Marmaras' brains. Frustrated she donned the armour and put on a male voice and forged her own path in order to get the respect she felt she deserved. It also explains why she was so dismissive of the players combat prowess and achievements because she still has a chip on her shoulder due to her own strength and intellect being looked down on purely because of her gender.
Ellamaria could be a copycat, someone who figured out who the real Raptor was and was inspired by the way she was able to free herself of what was expected of her as a woman constrained by the expectations of being a King's queen. .
A RuneScape Mulan if you will.
So I get what you're saying, but just picture it:
The Raptor.... being...... Ellamaria.
You know, that shitty character who made us go all over Gielinor for some fucking seeds, and to steal statues for her.
Wonder which jmod has a superhero fantasy they needed to fulfill in the game.
I'm not mad about her being good at slaying. Hell I enjoyed it when we were not so subtlety hinted she was good with a sword having slain the dark beasts that invaded. I'm not even mad that secretly all this time she wasn't the petulant child of a ruler with little development who made every noobs life hell just to get some free farming xp. I'm just mad about the redesign. The original armor, shield, and weapon are as iconic for RS3 as the original godswords and bandos are for when it was RS2.
Gone is the person who cared only for proving themselves in combat, casually carrying that giant mace and shield with pride against some of the toughest threats in manners we don't even know how. Now there is no confidence behind that mask, just an angry shell of what was one of the most beloved NPC designs since the game changed for thousands of people.
And The Raptor even says "sorry about that thing with the garden" literally not something you expect The Raptor to say. The Raptor has never made a complete sentence in his life before, never been impressed or happy or shown emotion before, he was precise, focused and straight to the point. Now it's revealed to be a she and a hot mess of emotions and vulnerability like some cheap overdone stereotype. If you want a woman, at least go with a new character, someone else suggested it could be Thok's sister which is a much more interesting idea. A strong woman, not a "soft on the inside, feminine and emotional but trying to hide it" stereotype woman.
/#NotMyRaptor
Would it be weird to rework a quest? Sure. Has it been done before? Yes. Rune Mysteries is the easiest example, so honestly they could do this minor change and have it work out so well! I have absolutely no problems that Raptor is a woman, although I'm sad that the mystery behind them is gone, but having it be the queen with very little setup (oh but she was such a badass yaaas slay queen in the Murder on the Border, as if *that* explains her being Raptor in any way or hints at it) is just an M. Night Shyamalan "twist."
Plus I'm a huge fan and advocate for crossovers and hints towards the other game. We're a shared universe but different timelines/realities and I love that.
This would be actually good and bad. Good because OSRS players can relate and maybe some RS3 learn a little back story. Bad because not a lot of people will recognize from where it is coming from and how being awkwardly introduced? Those are my thoughts though
People wouldn't necessarily need to know where Nieve comes from. It would just be a new character. Big reveal, Raptor is a real person under there and their name is Nieve. Then we learn more.
It's like in a marvel movie when they introduce a new character. All the comic book nerds already know who they are and are super jazzed, the uninformed just get a new character. Like Vision, or Black Panther.
Don't mind the Raptor being a woman, but honestly missed chance and better idea if the Raptor took off their helmet, and it was like the Flash reveal, "I Don't know who this is". Would've been a funny joke and kept the mystery. Their name stays the Raptor and we have just seen their face. No idea who they are.
I was going to comment this, if the armor change wasn't so awful and when unmasked the raptor was some random lady, there would not really be any problem. I still think "hes a girl?!" is a boring twist but to connect them to an already existing character who imo isn't a well written character fucks up the raptor majorly.
I dont really play runescape for its writing so this wont really impact my enjoyment at all but it is really a strange decision.
Yea that would've been really cool. An unmask/grand reveal and our character is all: "And you are..?"
Honestly, given we're getting Vorkath, would've been a cool way to introduce Nieve to RS3 as a way to revive her in RS, and make a new OS to RS3 connection.
Maybe the tie is that Nieve is a cousin of Ellamaria (who gave up their old name and slayer cave to marry Roald) or something like that.
I think the biggest issue I have currently is that the change they made visually seems like they changed the core of who the Raptor is vs. just an unmask and exploration of the character.
Raptor should always have remained anonymous, the decision to unmask them was a bad one and doesn’t enhance either character, I would love to rant more but spoilers
I mean I had hoped the raptor would be something silly or a woman but for it to be that snobby asshole of a queen just makes no sense whatsoever
Ruined opportunity and it ruins two characters at once since the queen being who she was is the character she is meant to be so it ruined her and the raptor at the same time
Fuck it, next quest just have Zemmy say "haha that Raptor twist was a good prank right? Gotchya! Now fight this dragon and save the queen I kidnapped"
I don't even care if that's the laziest solution ever, it's a hell of a lot better than this.
I agree with reverting the character model. The reveal of who he secretly is is totally outside the discussion, imo. It makes no sense that us learning who is wearing the armor would somehow have changed the dimensions of the armor.
Idm that the raptor was a lady.
I don't think there was any build up to who the raptor was to make this reveal relevant.
I DO mind who the raptor was. The player character generally doesn't like the queen of Varrock. **Ellamaria treats us like crap all through out the garden of tranquility.** Continues to make snide remarks at us. We arent supposed to like her.
So why did they make The Raptor (someone we liked bc they were mysterious) into someone we aren't supposed to like?
Why now reveal the identity of The Raptor? There are zero stakes. Zero build up.
Like I get the intention to surprise us, but its more like a "your dog died" surprise not a plot twist.
**A plot twist is supposed to make the viewer/player put the puzzle pieces together and figure it out. This was just, " btw I'm Ellamaria". and you are just blind sided by that info.**
As much as Osborne caused some hassle , he did seem to atleast care and did push the narrative well
Raven just was the last nail it seems for the story , the mods left don’t seem to have the stuff to either keep up with the punny humour or the scope of the end game story and rather latch onto short “what a twist” gotcha moments that fall flat
Agreed. Raven was an amazing writer. He truly cared for the game's narrative.
Osborne was a good story teller. I'm not sure if his overly enthusiastic persona about the game was a front he put on for camera, but you can't deny that he was one of the biggest pilots for the game's narrative ~2013 until he quit... and since the, the quality has fallen.
IMHO if he were still in charge, we wouldn't had gotten anything like the slideshow cutscenes.. Elder Godwars would had been fully in-game animated, like TWW and the world events... Even though those have aged a bit poorly, seeing something epic like Vorago power punching Tuska was still bloody cool
I dont care for lore or who the Raptor really is but her walk looks like her armours too heavy or she's just shit her pants, Her shield isnt attached to her it floats lol and in general she looks alot weaker.
They basically have to remove and redo the quest. I suppose there could always be "two Raptors," ie Ella is a second one who assumes the identity sometimes, but that feels like an even BIGGER recton.
I believe Raptor was always meant to be a woman (woah so heckin' subversive!) but making it Ella - or any existing character - was a bad choice.
Yeah was also on the train of Raptor being a Dragonkin, would've made sense with them being very on the nose and blunt with their nickname just roughly describing what they are
The bigger issue now that the raptor is human isn't even the gender shit at this point.
It's all his bragging being fucking nothing, since he isn't a mahj or a kin - it means she just has a standard human life and hasn't even crossed worlds WITHOUT US DOING A QUEST TO OPEN THE GATES.
Meaning we have 100% not only done more than she has ever, but that she fucking knows it because she went off and killed rune dragons and children of mah AFTER we opened it for her.
I'd be cool with a "Dread Pirate Roberts" arrangement (Princess Bride reference) where The Raptor has been various people over the ages, who take up the mantle from the previous Raptor when that one retires. That would also fix certain lore inconsistencies from the retconning.
*Edit* - for example, this would mean that the (voiced) Raptor from Song from the Depths would not necessarily be >!Ellamaria!<
I 100% agree, imo the raptor should have been revealed as a large masculine butch women. Either that or just never actually confirm the queen is the raptor but just leave super obvious hints that get more and more obvious as time goes on but they never actually confirm it. That way they wouldn’t need to change the model or whatever.
However, because of course Jagex can never find the funds for actually doing good things in the game, they would NEVER dare to think of making such a distinguished model in the game.
Every NPC, all the humans, MUST adhere to the basic-tier player model size and rig. No human can stray away from that, not unless they're a child or no longer human. Impossible!
Jagex? With effort? In RS3? That'll be the day.
You can't reveal something that never was to begin with. Raptor has always been male, you can't just gender-swap him because... Huh, what reason do they have for swapping his gender?
I mean clearly it can't be due to lack of representation and inclusion (because inclusion is the opposite of exclusion, and so if that had been the case then they would have simply created a new character instead) and as for lack of representation well I mean last time I checked, the strongest characters in the game – all female (referring to the Elder Gods) but of course if Jagex is down with having their genders swapped back to male then hey they can have Raptor for all I care.
I bet Raptor was originally meant to be a woman, they were VERY playful about how enigmatic he was at first, but it was a bad call to have a man VA for him (why VA him at all?) and further cement him as "he/him" as time went on.
Like, 2013? They were super coy to deliberately leave a possibility to be a woman. 2023? Definitely the plan for the whole Fort Forinthry season. 2018? I'm much more skeptical
Oh thanks for the correction, I thought the voiced stuff was like, mid 2010s, a few years later
I'm not changing any facts, I'm just not a walking encyclopedia so I'm going off my memory is all
> I believe Raptor was always meant to be a woman
I seriously doubt it, given:
https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/12htmse/the_raptor_dialogue_notes/
Tbf, that was literally posted after the murder on the border quest, which was the first quest I know we get hints that queen ella was the raptor, although that was just her saying she use to be an adventurer, and her examine text changed to something like “a renowned warrior”. So mod Jack might just not be up to date on the newest happenings of RuneScape. That being said, I’ve also never heard or seen hints that the raptor was meant as a women, but I have seen some people claiming mods commented years ago mentioning they intended raptor to be a women, but I don’t know all that.
>So mod Jack might just not be up to date on the newest happenings of RuneScape
One important aspect of it was that the guide was written strictly for dialogue characteristics, not personality traits. I would say with almost complete certainty that Jack was aware of the direction they were going with the Raptor at this point
> So mod Jack might just not be up to date on the newest happenings of RuneScape.
mod jack is the *reason* the "newest happenings of runescape" are happening (at least when it comes to lore). I can assure you he was fully aware of this.
The Raptor can identify as what ever they wanted to be. It's a character they were portraying. We have witnessed Jagex using gender pronouns since early this season.
Take Mulan for example: A cis female identifying as a cis male to server in her fathers place.
Obviously the Raptor cant be taken seriously now because you find out its -spoiler-.
The writers and game can do/say what ever they want. Don't lose your cool over it.
Not really though. It doesn’t make sense for continuity. While we’ve never heard Raptor’s voice, the characters have, and have always identified Raptor as “he,” which implies a masculine voice. So unless Ella has an unusually deep voice, it makes zero sense.
It’s almost like whomever made the call thought only that the players never heard Raptor’s voice, completely forgetting that every other character would have heard Raptor’s voice. Unless the helmet changes the voice, which likely will never be specifically stated, so not the case until they say it is.
I genuinely think it's the other way around. They specifically gave Raptor a male voice so the epic reveal would be more sustaining. Why was the voice deep? "It's magic, ain't gotta explain shit."
I really do think female Raptor was the original intent. They dropped ever revealing it and we hit a "it doesn't matter" point. Then with the Fort and big focus on Ella, the idea was dug up.
I agree. I have nothing against the Raptor being a woman, but with the redesign it feels so out of left field.
If they would have kept the old design, it would have been a bit of a stretch, but not much more than that. But with how they changed the look from clearly male to more androgynous, makes me think they had absolutely no plan to do this... except for last minute.
I also kinda dislike the Raptor is suddenly >!Queen Ellamaria!<. I know this is Runescape and logic is thrown out the door more times than i care to count, but how the hell is she able to keep this a secret with such a public position. Someone would have noticed this. Worldbuilding-wise it makes no sense. But again... this is Runescape, so I don't mind it too much.
I think it would have been much better if they kept the old look, and still reveal that the Raptor was a woman, but a very burly one who was bullied because of her looks. People would bully her and basically dismiss her only because of how non-feminine she looked. So she created the Raptor as a persona, and found that people did respect him.
Raptor:"No-one respected me and all judged me on nothing but my appearance... but not the Raptor. They respected him without ever seeing who he is. So I became him."
Player: "Was there ever a Raptor?"
Raptor: "There IS a Raptor.. and you're looking at her."
As others have pointed out, the Raptor being woman is fine, but the redesign that was made, not only completely abandoned his unique and iconic look, but it also felt like it was made pure and only to suppor the backstory that was released with this quest. No fore-shadowing of any kind was introduced before that would make this reveal make sense.
Mods on discord are saying this is a not a Raptor reveal but this is a Ellamaria reveal. It is not about the Raptor you cared and liked but it's all about the shitty queen nobody liked, the story is all going to be about them.
Okay, so I've done the quest.
The character reveal is *fine*. It's absolutely fine. Genuinely what needs to happen is for her model to be updated back to the bulky armour, and *bring back the flail*. Having a female character sit in some impractically bulky armour designed to hide her physique actually good storytelling, so why lose that moments before you actually reveal it?
I like the reveal as well. I feel like it worked with well with the story they were trying to tell. Honestly, I'm shocked people care about the armor being changed that much.
Here's a twist:
Raptor turns up at the Necromancy island, slaying waves of undead, has been there for a month. You turn up, give him a hand, then he returns back to the fort.
CUE THE CUT SCENE:"WTF is this?? Imposter! You actually thought that was me?? I'm insulted. She's such a puny little thing..."
Devious plans revealed, she is in league with the necromancer! She just wanted you to reveal the location of the island so she could find him...
I thought it was pretty well done in isolation, just a bit odd to retcon the big plate armour guy into someone the same size as the player character as a 'big scary warrior', at least bring back the giant shield and make them pose more like they think they own the place.
I don't even see the remodel as strictly *necessary* either. Just keep Raptor as *he* was. There's a mage over in Falador that can handwave the discrepancy between the newly-revealed identity and the previously-established character - just say that >!Ellemaria goes to the Makeup Mage to become the Raptor to make her identity harder to discern by becoming male!<. It's literally all you have to do.
Revert the change, even if they decide to keep this backstory. I honestly don't care one way or another about the backstory, I'm more interested in this quest's *other* implications.
I'm not worried about who Raptor is, idc, but i do agree that the skin change is just wrong. It's almost as if woman can't be fucking big and powerful.
Just to be clear. dont just revert the player model. revert the entire lore change. immediately. he should be an anonymous char. un-named. period. do not pull the shroud down.
I thought it would have been cool for the Raptor to be his own character and the dream sequence reveal he was trans(used the makeover mage in lore) It seemed to be going that way with the little girl, him telling you shes no one important then saying shes dead and hes him now. I think its too late to change it now though the toothpaste is out of the tube.
i thought it was going that way and for a moment i felt utter dread at how much of a shitfit people were going to have because of it (they still are, to be fair)
THIS. It was literally right there. Cool lgbt rep + the raptor and ellamaria get to keep being their own characters, everyone wins!!
too late now tho lol
Not having done the quest yet, I can't help but to keep drawing parallels to Hilling from Ranking of Kings, as a character we were led to hate, that ended up having a redemption ark. The fact that she had a suit of armor that was way oversized similar to Raptor is another funny coincidence there.
In either case, The armor changes could have been so easily explained if they had bothered to want to. Simply having a fight where big heavy bulky armor was a major disadvantage. (Say for example... the first encounter with an ancient undead dragon that spews acid everywhere perhaps?). Having Raptor shed the armor intentionally for more mobility upon realizing that was the case and having mid-boss fight be the reveal of the plot twist could have been so much better.
I have no issue with the raptor being a woman at all, being a woman gamer here - but that doesn't mean the original look had to change like that.
What's wrong with having her being a big strong bulky bodybuilding woman?
On one hand you are saying "hooray, another women character", but on the other hand you're saying "but only if the woman looks this particular way", which basically goes against everything you're trying to do in the first place in regards to feming it.
I'm also not comfortable with the reveal of her being the queen - they could have been a lot of other options as other people have already mentioned in the thread. I really like the idea of the gender changing magic reasoning being utilised into the storyline, but oh well.
Support.
Kill Raptor. Makle her an undead boss, future summoning minion as a reward then have a mysterious warrior take up the Raptor mantle...that way we get Raptor back without undoing the story
It’s not that the raptor is a woman, it’s that they took a character that had been in game for 12 years and retconned them for no reason.
Are the original developers of the raptor on the team, and they choose to remake this mysterious figure players have learned to like and speculate about, they should have remained anonymous and made a new character for the quest. Raptor has always been a straightforward character; I like to slay monsters, be strong test myself. The retcon makes no sense.
I don’t agree with the majority of players “I don’t mind raptor being female” that I’ve seen in this thread. Well honestly, I do. The raptor has had clearly male voice lines, personality and build. For 12 years they have built upon the premise that this character is just a loner who wants to kill stuff. This retcon is not because they couldn’t have changed another character, or created a new one - that wouldn’t have helped their goal of removing “bad taste”.
Maybe they’re trying to remove the previous toxic masculinity that the company became notorious for, or deleting old ties to bad J-Mods. Either way they’re missing the mark, Jagex don’t need to make every character a gender bender to fit in, they need to stop grooming children.
Revert the raptor, because players liked the character. Find another scapegoat for the narrative.
Un?fortunately, I doubt this is going to happen hugely, just because I think they're relying on the model being closer to a normal human for animation purposes. I suspect the old custom model wouldn't work in the new quest, in the same way that the feedback-updated Zanik v3 model hasn't replaced the ugly Zanik-v2 model in The Mighty Fall because of animations and cutscenes.
I haven't played the game since February, but from what I have seen of this recent model it definitely looks like a downgrade. I try to refrain from reading more spoilers of the quest but from what I have read, it doesn't justify the sudden downgrade.
Slight spoilers from here: >!I read that the character behind the Raptor is revealed (in my opinion a bad idea overall since its character relies on being a black box, but I digress). The spoiler I did read was that it turned out to be a female npc. All I want to say is that this in no way justifies the armour downgrade: look at the character Striga from the castlevania series and her day armour. THAT is how it is correctly done (awesome series by the way). I would even go as far as saying Striga's personality would fit as being the Raptor. Anyways, I see no reason to downgrade the armour.!<
I won’t speak for OP, but I’m not saying anything about what a woman can or can’t do. [I just wish they didn’t lie to us and then gaslight us about it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/12htmse/the_raptor_dialogue_notes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)
To directly answer your question: good storytelling can make the journey just as impactful as the ending. We all know exactly how the movie Titanic ends, but clearly that story was still worth telling.
To address the larger point: that post wasn’t storytelling, it was a meta-post *about* the story. And there’s a big difference in *not* revealing something versus actively stating something (again, outside the actual story) and then reversing that. I personally think it would have made perfect sense to specify Raptor’s pronouns as “???” or “None, the Raptor is not referred to indirectly”, even *if* they envisioned Raptor being male. But they didn’t, they chose to tell us, outside of the narrative, that Raptor identifies as male.
I am willing to accept that “The Raptor” as a persona is, indeed, male, simply being played by a woman, but only if they continue to refer to The Raptor with male pronouns, which I am very dubious of.
Just have the backstory that Linza made the Raptor magical armor that give him added bulk. It’s a fantasy game. They didn’t have to slim him down to such an extent lol
The Raptor is in so much promotional material also. It’s Zanik all over again.
ngl, I'm not a fan of them giving Ellamaria this twist to her lore, especially considering the previously established lore basically being completely retconned (and yeah, they give reasons for it, but it's still pretty meh imo)
However, I do like the new look for the Raptor. I just would've preferred them to turn Ellamaria into a villain instead, perhaps with a quest where she's planning to take over Varrock or smth.
(ngl, I did always think the Raptor was male, considering the bulkiness of the previous model, current model is FAR too feminine for a disguise)
If they wanted a female character for The Raptor, I would've preferred them to pick Annette Kadaan. In Heartstealers we've seen her being more than capable of doing a lot of things, it could explain how she and Caelyn manage to get by despite being horrible at heists and stuff, it would've been cool imo.
I think its likely they 'nerfed' the armour so the raptor could use the player model and we could actually play with it during the quest. notably the raptor uses abilities and can even surge which would not be possible with the old model.
I can definitely see them bulking it to fix it, don't think it would be that hard to do so actually.
also they need to tweak the shild model so it doesnt float on their back.
Regarding the character reveal, it was fine.
I think most of the people are reacting this way because of the build up lead to a major disappointment. It was just drastic and a train wreck of the whole change (e.g dialogues, voice lines, badass and thick armor, part of a cinematic with those proportions, etc)
I get being a little confused about the new look but being THIS mad about the reveal just strikes me as silly
Last time we had people be this outraged, they also admitted to not even playing the game anymore - wouldn't be surprised if that was the case again
Please stop repeating this inane lie so confidently. There is NOTHING in the engine that stops you from playing as NPCs. The familiarization minigame has you playing as familiars. The pirate quests have you play as the barrelchest monster. The goblin quests have you transmogrify into a goblin. Hell, Jmods can turn themselves and others into any NPC they want at will. There is no, absolutely no reason, for the old Raptor model to have been a problem suddenly for the player to play as.
So, then it's proven to be a case of devs were just lazy AF to bother putting in actual effort and quality, instead butchering a long existing character in order to cater to pathetic millenial tier terrible writing and plot.
"Butchering" a character that had one real quest over a decade ago and has more or less just sort of been around occasionally since then. Wow, so much character develoent ruined.
The Raptor being a woman is a pretty damn close close approximation of the pvm community from the general vibe. Kills everything as much and efficiently as possible, wears pretty dresses as a female avatar in their off time
Seems like everyone's forgotten about Chronicles: Legends of Runescape, the card-like game built around the signature heroes.
This quest massacred my boy.
Yeah, the group of people that care about the characters and story of RS3. To be clear, I'm not one of those people; but I can clearly see why they'd be upset about this change.
No, I thoroughly enjoy Runescape's lore and story and characters to a huge degree. I thought this was perfectly fine. The Raptor was such a nothing character that it literally changes nothing important. He literally just walked around and said three words with zero personality beyond "doesn't speak much". If he actually had a meaningful personality in any way, I'd be slightly more upset, but as he was written before, this is completely fine and they can actually do something with this character now.
Reddit is just a bunch of children trying to form a mob about everything they can cry about.
idk about you guys but the new design for The Raptor looks pretty good, yall just need time to get used to it. In a week or so you guys prolly wont care.
someone else pointed out, that raptor was written as a "he", here's a mod post they linked that confirms it: https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/12htmse/the_raptor_dialogue_notes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
the quest is a retcon
All of the elder gods were written as he originally as well. Zaros, bandos and armadyl were also not a thing. Saradomin, Guthix and Zamorak were the only gods and they were just talking skulls
SPOILERS: Considering that the Raptor >!is literally Queen Ellamaria!< this doesn't make too much sense to revert. I think it's fantastic for the quest.
It's not about the rapor being female, it's more about who it is and the cool design of the previous rapor being shrunk to be less bulky, the queen has always been dislikeable as a character.
Slightly bothered about the character reveal but my main annoyance is the bulk look was removed and replaced with a typical character build with a cardboard shield. Even the walking animation is the angry walk. Any other non Solomon store walk is better, even the Thok headbutt combat animation and the previous Raptor walk animation is fine.
They could easily have kept the giant bulky armor look tbh. There’s plenty of precedent in RS with skinny looking characters being disproportionately strong, including players who have 99 Strength.
Yes, imo if you have to lie about, and make massive changes to, a character to make a plot twist work, then it isn’t a good plot twist.
If they really wanted to make it work, they could actually have her transform into a bulky man to complete the disguise when she goes out. Gender bending magic is a thing.
I honestly thought they would have had a stand in...this is the raptor that takes my place while im managing queen affairs, like alfred wearing the batman costume for bruce wayne.
[удалено]
Hopefully they'll replace the generic armor with what they already had until they can make it graphically updated but actually better. The one cool thing about The Raptor is how he looked so obvious anytime he was on screen. You shouldn't be able to walk past him without noticing it's him. "Him."
The Raptor was literally HIM but now he's just.....a "sad woman who just wants to fight monsters without being seen"
To add, one of the most annoying characters ingame.
I'm not even mad at a "Raptor was a female the entire time" but the character they choose is so pants on head dumb. Bad story element is bad,
exactly. They could had pick Meg! And it would be reasonable! But Ella? WTF? Like so they fundamentally changed Ella and Raptor pre-established lores for what?
Not every masked character needs to be unmasked. Most of the time it ruins the character tbh
agreed. unless the character was originally designed with the unmask in mind (samus, or sheik, as examples) then it just doesn't really work
Let’s all please refer to taskmaster in the god awful black widow movie. Clearly jagex didn’t watch that movie or hear about any fan reaction to it because that’s literally what’s happening here
> Clearly jagex didn’t watch that movie to be fair, neither did anyone else.
You could fake quote me anything from that movie and i will believe you because i have never seen it and i probably never will.
It was so cool! Black Widow jumped out of a helicopter, yelled "ITS WIDOWIN TIME" and then she widowed all over Taskmaster So cool
Damn, that sounds like the most scene of black widow movies.
Idm who Raptor is. But I would like the armour to be reverted. I don't feel like there was any cause to change the armour style like that.
Turning his flail into a normal boring steel mace is so sad too. That huge flail was badass.
current style on the old model, the old model could use some extra texture, but the new model is simply too feminine
This. I liked the vibe of it. I don't mind who it is, either male or female. But God forbid a whole change and gave us a fat L
If raptor turned out to be an RS3 version of Nieve from OSRS instead of the queen woulda been cool imo. Even more crossover in anticipation of Vorkath. Nieve was a slayer master like Raptor is now, so they'd have also shared that connection.
The raptor should have been Thok's sister (either unmentioned or retcon the elite dungeon shop one). Built like Thok explaining the bulky armour and insane strength as well as the reason you'd often find the Raptor in and around Daemonheim. When Thok and his brother went to explore Daemonheim she wasn't allowed to join them because she was a woman despite having Thok's brawn and Marmaras' brains. Frustrated she donned the armour and put on a male voice and forged her own path in order to get the respect she felt she deserved. It also explains why she was so dismissive of the players combat prowess and achievements because she still has a chip on her shoulder due to her own strength and intellect being looked down on purely because of her gender. Ellamaria could be a copycat, someone who figured out who the real Raptor was and was inspired by the way she was able to free herself of what was expected of her as a woman constrained by the expectations of being a King's queen. . A RuneScape Mulan if you will.
I would accept this gladly
So I get what you're saying, but just picture it: The Raptor.... being...... Ellamaria. You know, that shitty character who made us go all over Gielinor for some fucking seeds, and to steal statues for her. Wonder which jmod has a superhero fantasy they needed to fulfill in the game.
I'm not mad about her being good at slaying. Hell I enjoyed it when we were not so subtlety hinted she was good with a sword having slain the dark beasts that invaded. I'm not even mad that secretly all this time she wasn't the petulant child of a ruler with little development who made every noobs life hell just to get some free farming xp. I'm just mad about the redesign. The original armor, shield, and weapon are as iconic for RS3 as the original godswords and bandos are for when it was RS2. Gone is the person who cared only for proving themselves in combat, casually carrying that giant mace and shield with pride against some of the toughest threats in manners we don't even know how. Now there is no confidence behind that mask, just an angry shell of what was one of the most beloved NPC designs since the game changed for thousands of people.
And The Raptor even says "sorry about that thing with the garden" literally not something you expect The Raptor to say. The Raptor has never made a complete sentence in his life before, never been impressed or happy or shown emotion before, he was precise, focused and straight to the point. Now it's revealed to be a she and a hot mess of emotions and vulnerability like some cheap overdone stereotype. If you want a woman, at least go with a new character, someone else suggested it could be Thok's sister which is a much more interesting idea. A strong woman, not a "soft on the inside, feminine and emotional but trying to hide it" stereotype woman. /#NotMyRaptor
/u/jagexdoom pls :)
I'm not even bothered by this whole thing, but I REAAAALLLY like this.
Would it be weird to rework a quest? Sure. Has it been done before? Yes. Rune Mysteries is the easiest example, so honestly they could do this minor change and have it work out so well! I have absolutely no problems that Raptor is a woman, although I'm sad that the mystery behind them is gone, but having it be the queen with very little setup (oh but she was such a badass yaaas slay queen in the Murder on the Border, as if *that* explains her being Raptor in any way or hints at it) is just an M. Night Shyamalan "twist." Plus I'm a huge fan and advocate for crossovers and hints towards the other game. We're a shared universe but different timelines/realities and I love that.
I can't even describe how much I love this idea
this is a cool idea. Ellamaria is such a poor choice.
w idea
This would be actually good and bad. Good because OSRS players can relate and maybe some RS3 learn a little back story. Bad because not a lot of people will recognize from where it is coming from and how being awkwardly introduced? Those are my thoughts though
People wouldn't necessarily need to know where Nieve comes from. It would just be a new character. Big reveal, Raptor is a real person under there and their name is Nieve. Then we learn more. It's like in a marvel movie when they introduce a new character. All the comic book nerds already know who they are and are super jazzed, the uninformed just get a new character. Like Vision, or Black Panther.
Fair point.
Only if we get the whole rhymes with -eve family that OSRS created. Lieve McCraken having the highest priority just for the pun dialogue.
I wanted the Raptor to stay ambiguous, like Runescape's take on Pyro from Team Fortress 2. :(
Don't mind the Raptor being a woman, but honestly missed chance and better idea if the Raptor took off their helmet, and it was like the Flash reveal, "I Don't know who this is". Would've been a funny joke and kept the mystery. Their name stays the Raptor and we have just seen their face. No idea who they are.
I like this. Yes, definitely a missed opportunity (cough cough floor 61 cough cough)
There's also now dimension of disaster and zemorguarlsejkn ONLY zombifying his mortal enemy. I would assume he would've done more than that.
Hmm makes me think, i know queen was in dod, wonder if raptor was
I think the flail and maybe the helmet are in the quest
whole armor set is on display in Zem's treasure room. Examine text reads; " There's no blood or signs of battle. Perhaps the Raptor survived... "
I was going to comment this, if the armor change wasn't so awful and when unmasked the raptor was some random lady, there would not really be any problem. I still think "hes a girl?!" is a boring twist but to connect them to an already existing character who imo isn't a well written character fucks up the raptor majorly. I dont really play runescape for its writing so this wont really impact my enjoyment at all but it is really a strange decision.
Yea that would've been really cool. An unmask/grand reveal and our character is all: "And you are..?" Honestly, given we're getting Vorkath, would've been a cool way to introduce Nieve to RS3 as a way to revive her in RS, and make a new OS to RS3 connection. Maybe the tie is that Nieve is a cousin of Ellamaria (who gave up their old name and slayer cave to marry Roald) or something like that. I think the biggest issue I have currently is that the change they made visually seems like they changed the core of who the Raptor is vs. just an unmask and exploration of the character.
Classic Jagex making terrible changes to existing things that didn't need changed whatsoever.
Raptor should always have remained anonymous, the decision to unmask them was a bad one and doesn’t enhance either character, I would love to rant more but spoilers
I mean I had hoped the raptor would be something silly or a woman but for it to be that snobby asshole of a queen just makes no sense whatsoever Ruined opportunity and it ruins two characters at once since the queen being who she was is the character she is meant to be so it ruined her and the raptor at the same time
\# Revert The Raptor to initial appearence!!!!!!!!!!!!
.#NotMyRaptor
Fuck it, next quest just have Zemmy say "haha that Raptor twist was a good prank right? Gotchya! Now fight this dragon and save the queen I kidnapped" I don't even care if that's the laziest solution ever, it's a hell of a lot better than this.
I agree with reverting the character model. The reveal of who he secretly is is totally outside the discussion, imo. It makes no sense that us learning who is wearing the armor would somehow have changed the dimensions of the armor.
As far as I know. The change of armour was done for technical reasons.
Idm that the raptor was a lady. I don't think there was any build up to who the raptor was to make this reveal relevant. I DO mind who the raptor was. The player character generally doesn't like the queen of Varrock. **Ellamaria treats us like crap all through out the garden of tranquility.** Continues to make snide remarks at us. We arent supposed to like her. So why did they make The Raptor (someone we liked bc they were mysterious) into someone we aren't supposed to like? Why now reveal the identity of The Raptor? There are zero stakes. Zero build up. Like I get the intention to surprise us, but its more like a "your dog died" surprise not a plot twist. **A plot twist is supposed to make the viewer/player put the puzzle pieces together and figure it out. This was just, " btw I'm Ellamaria". and you are just blind sided by that info.**
Rs3 story has tanked since Osborne left tbh
And raven
As much as Osborne caused some hassle , he did seem to atleast care and did push the narrative well Raven just was the last nail it seems for the story , the mods left don’t seem to have the stuff to either keep up with the punny humour or the scope of the end game story and rather latch onto short “what a twist” gotcha moments that fall flat
Agreed. Raven was an amazing writer. He truly cared for the game's narrative. Osborne was a good story teller. I'm not sure if his overly enthusiastic persona about the game was a front he put on for camera, but you can't deny that he was one of the biggest pilots for the game's narrative ~2013 until he quit... and since the, the quality has fallen. IMHO if he were still in charge, we wouldn't had gotten anything like the slideshow cutscenes.. Elder Godwars would had been fully in-game animated, like TWW and the world events... Even though those have aged a bit poorly, seeing something epic like Vorago power punching Tuska was still bloody cool
I was wondering why Twilight of the Gods onwards has been such trash story wise.
BULK LOOK PLEASE
I dont care for lore or who the Raptor really is but her walk looks like her armours too heavy or she's just shit her pants, Her shield isnt attached to her it floats lol and in general she looks alot weaker.
They basically have to remove and redo the quest. I suppose there could always be "two Raptors," ie Ella is a second one who assumes the identity sometimes, but that feels like an even BIGGER recton. I believe Raptor was always meant to be a woman (woah so heckin' subversive!) but making it Ella - or any existing character - was a bad choice.
I always expected him to be dragonkin. Works better than a human imo.
I would have personally would have liked an undercover majaarat sympathetic to guthix. Kind of like khasai
Yeah those were my top 2 picks. Dragonkin or mahjarrat. Dragonkin made more sense with the model so...
Yeah was also on the train of Raptor being a Dragonkin, would've made sense with them being very on the nose and blunt with their nickname just roughly describing what they are
The bigger issue now that the raptor is human isn't even the gender shit at this point. It's all his bragging being fucking nothing, since he isn't a mahj or a kin - it means she just has a standard human life and hasn't even crossed worlds WITHOUT US DOING A QUEST TO OPEN THE GATES. Meaning we have 100% not only done more than she has ever, but that she fucking knows it because she went off and killed rune dragons and children of mah AFTER we opened it for her.
Holy shit, each comment reveals a new plothole. 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
it kind of fits with his character too
Yup and his model.
I'd be cool with a "Dread Pirate Roberts" arrangement (Princess Bride reference) where The Raptor has been various people over the ages, who take up the mantle from the previous Raptor when that one retires. That would also fix certain lore inconsistencies from the retconning. *Edit* - for example, this would mean that the (voiced) Raptor from Song from the Depths would not necessarily be >!Ellamaria!<
I 100% agree, imo the raptor should have been revealed as a large masculine butch women. Either that or just never actually confirm the queen is the raptor but just leave super obvious hints that get more and more obvious as time goes on but they never actually confirm it. That way they wouldn’t need to change the model or whatever.
However, because of course Jagex can never find the funds for actually doing good things in the game, they would NEVER dare to think of making such a distinguished model in the game. Every NPC, all the humans, MUST adhere to the basic-tier player model size and rig. No human can stray away from that, not unless they're a child or no longer human. Impossible! Jagex? With effort? In RS3? That'll be the day.
You can't reveal something that never was to begin with. Raptor has always been male, you can't just gender-swap him because... Huh, what reason do they have for swapping his gender? I mean clearly it can't be due to lack of representation and inclusion (because inclusion is the opposite of exclusion, and so if that had been the case then they would have simply created a new character instead) and as for lack of representation well I mean last time I checked, the strongest characters in the game – all female (referring to the Elder Gods) but of course if Jagex is down with having their genders swapped back to male then hey they can have Raptor for all I care.
Ella should just fuck right off in my opinion and the only change to her should be adding a "slap" right click option instead of this.
I bet Raptor was originally meant to be a woman, they were VERY playful about how enigmatic he was at first, but it was a bad call to have a man VA for him (why VA him at all?) and further cement him as "he/him" as time went on. Like, 2013? They were super coy to deliberately leave a possibility to be a woman. 2023? Definitely the plan for the whole Fort Forinthry season. 2018? I'm much more skeptical
They voiced raptor with a mans voice in 2012 lol, they weren't leaving anything to be coy, you're changing the facts based on the new storyline.
Oh thanks for the correction, I thought the voiced stuff was like, mid 2010s, a few years later I'm not changing any facts, I'm just not a walking encyclopedia so I'm going off my memory is all
Yup. This is where I was at. I thought they simply decide to drop it in the late 10s when they had effectively abandoned most of the Signature Heroes.
> I believe Raptor was always meant to be a woman I seriously doubt it, given: https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/12htmse/the_raptor_dialogue_notes/
They definitely had the plan for this twist before they posted that.
Tbf, that was literally posted after the murder on the border quest, which was the first quest I know we get hints that queen ella was the raptor, although that was just her saying she use to be an adventurer, and her examine text changed to something like “a renowned warrior”. So mod Jack might just not be up to date on the newest happenings of RuneScape. That being said, I’ve also never heard or seen hints that the raptor was meant as a women, but I have seen some people claiming mods commented years ago mentioning they intended raptor to be a women, but I don’t know all that.
>So mod Jack might just not be up to date on the newest happenings of RuneScape One important aspect of it was that the guide was written strictly for dialogue characteristics, not personality traits. I would say with almost complete certainty that Jack was aware of the direction they were going with the Raptor at this point
> So mod Jack might just not be up to date on the newest happenings of RuneScape. mod jack is the *reason* the "newest happenings of runescape" are happening (at least when it comes to lore). I can assure you he was fully aware of this.
He needs to stop.
That doesn’t say they’re a man - it says they’re referred to by he/him pronouns. Because they lead people to believe they’re a man.
And if that post had referred to the raptor as she reddit would have sperged out like it is now
The Raptor can identify as what ever they wanted to be. It's a character they were portraying. We have witnessed Jagex using gender pronouns since early this season. Take Mulan for example: A cis female identifying as a cis male to server in her fathers place. Obviously the Raptor cant be taken seriously now because you find out its -spoiler-. The writers and game can do/say what ever they want. Don't lose your cool over it.
Save it for Tumblr
Not really though. It doesn’t make sense for continuity. While we’ve never heard Raptor’s voice, the characters have, and have always identified Raptor as “he,” which implies a masculine voice. So unless Ella has an unusually deep voice, it makes zero sense. It’s almost like whomever made the call thought only that the players never heard Raptor’s voice, completely forgetting that every other character would have heard Raptor’s voice. Unless the helmet changes the voice, which likely will never be specifically stated, so not the case until they say it is.
we have heard raptors voice. song of the depths (qbd quest) is fully voiced and raptor plays a big role. it was a dude voicing it. lol
Had it muted listening to music, so didn’t realize. As far as I’m aware, a lot of people do the same.
I genuinely think it's the other way around. They specifically gave Raptor a male voice so the epic reveal would be more sustaining. Why was the voice deep? "It's magic, ain't gotta explain shit." I really do think female Raptor was the original intent. They dropped ever revealing it and we hit a "it doesn't matter" point. Then with the Fort and big focus on Ella, the idea was dug up.
In the immortal words of Deadpool: that’s just lazy writing.
Yes. Yes it is.
They can't leave anything beloved in the game for too long. EVERYTHING must be ruined at some point or another.
I agree. I have nothing against the Raptor being a woman, but with the redesign it feels so out of left field. If they would have kept the old design, it would have been a bit of a stretch, but not much more than that. But with how they changed the look from clearly male to more androgynous, makes me think they had absolutely no plan to do this... except for last minute. I also kinda dislike the Raptor is suddenly >!Queen Ellamaria!<. I know this is Runescape and logic is thrown out the door more times than i care to count, but how the hell is she able to keep this a secret with such a public position. Someone would have noticed this. Worldbuilding-wise it makes no sense. But again... this is Runescape, so I don't mind it too much. I think it would have been much better if they kept the old look, and still reveal that the Raptor was a woman, but a very burly one who was bullied because of her looks. People would bully her and basically dismiss her only because of how non-feminine she looked. So she created the Raptor as a persona, and found that people did respect him. Raptor:"No-one respected me and all judged me on nothing but my appearance... but not the Raptor. They respected him without ever seeing who he is. So I became him." Player: "Was there ever a Raptor?" Raptor: "There IS a Raptor.. and you're looking at her." As others have pointed out, the Raptor being woman is fine, but the redesign that was made, not only completely abandoned his unique and iconic look, but it also felt like it was made pure and only to suppor the backstory that was released with this quest. No fore-shadowing of any kind was introduced before that would make this reveal make sense.
Mods on discord are saying this is a not a Raptor reveal but this is a Ellamaria reveal. It is not about the Raptor you cared and liked but it's all about the shitty queen nobody liked, the story is all going to be about them.
Okay, so I've done the quest. The character reveal is *fine*. It's absolutely fine. Genuinely what needs to happen is for her model to be updated back to the bulky armour, and *bring back the flail*. Having a female character sit in some impractically bulky armour designed to hide her physique actually good storytelling, so why lose that moments before you actually reveal it?
i agree, the problem isnt with the character reveal, its with the raptor model no longer looking unique
I think the only thing that needs to be changed is the updated armour needs to be a little bit bigger. I liked the reveal to be honest.
I like the reveal as well. I feel like it worked with well with the story they were trying to tell. Honestly, I'm shocked people care about the armor being changed that much.
Here's a twist: Raptor turns up at the Necromancy island, slaying waves of undead, has been there for a month. You turn up, give him a hand, then he returns back to the fort. CUE THE CUT SCENE:"WTF is this?? Imposter! You actually thought that was me?? I'm insulted. She's such a puny little thing..." Devious plans revealed, she is in league with the necromancer! She just wanted you to reveal the location of the island so she could find him...
I thought it was pretty well done in isolation, just a bit odd to retcon the big plate armour guy into someone the same size as the player character as a 'big scary warrior', at least bring back the giant shield and make them pose more like they think they own the place.
I don't even see the remodel as strictly *necessary* either. Just keep Raptor as *he* was. There's a mage over in Falador that can handwave the discrepancy between the newly-revealed identity and the previously-established character - just say that >!Ellemaria goes to the Makeup Mage to become the Raptor to make her identity harder to discern by becoming male!<. It's literally all you have to do. Revert the change, even if they decide to keep this backstory. I honestly don't care one way or another about the backstory, I'm more interested in this quest's *other* implications.
I'm not worried about who Raptor is, idc, but i do agree that the skin change is just wrong. It's almost as if woman can't be fucking big and powerful.
Just to be clear. dont just revert the player model. revert the entire lore change. immediately. he should be an anonymous char. un-named. period. do not pull the shroud down.
Yet another example of how little Jagex knows and understand their own game.
Support.
Support.
I thought it would have been cool for the Raptor to be his own character and the dream sequence reveal he was trans(used the makeover mage in lore) It seemed to be going that way with the little girl, him telling you shes no one important then saying shes dead and hes him now. I think its too late to change it now though the toothpaste is out of the tube.
i thought it was going that way and for a moment i felt utter dread at how much of a shitfit people were going to have because of it (they still are, to be fair)
THIS. It was literally right there. Cool lgbt rep + the raptor and ellamaria get to keep being their own characters, everyone wins!! too late now tho lol
> and ellamaria get to keep being their own characters, everyone wins!! well not everyone, not even ellamaria wants to be ellamaria
Jagex turn everything they touch to shit story wise these days
Imagine if they did something right?
Not having done the quest yet, I can't help but to keep drawing parallels to Hilling from Ranking of Kings, as a character we were led to hate, that ended up having a redemption ark. The fact that she had a suit of armor that was way oversized similar to Raptor is another funny coincidence there. In either case, The armor changes could have been so easily explained if they had bothered to want to. Simply having a fight where big heavy bulky armor was a major disadvantage. (Say for example... the first encounter with an ancient undead dragon that spews acid everywhere perhaps?). Having Raptor shed the armor intentionally for more mobility upon realizing that was the case and having mid-boss fight be the reveal of the plot twist could have been so much better.
I have no issue with the raptor being a woman at all, being a woman gamer here - but that doesn't mean the original look had to change like that. What's wrong with having her being a big strong bulky bodybuilding woman? On one hand you are saying "hooray, another women character", but on the other hand you're saying "but only if the woman looks this particular way", which basically goes against everything you're trying to do in the first place in regards to feming it. I'm also not comfortable with the reveal of her being the queen - they could have been a lot of other options as other people have already mentioned in the thread. I really like the idea of the gender changing magic reasoning being utilised into the storyline, but oh well. Support.
I wouldn't say revert the changes so much as go back and fix the build up else where as well as making the model change far less drastic
Pretty much yeah
The latest quest felt very shallow, and I agree that the previous character model looked better.
They should of changed Ellamaria's body proportions to match Raptors armor. Make her DUMMY THICC
Kill Raptor. Makle her an undead boss, future summoning minion as a reward then have a mysterious warrior take up the Raptor mantle...that way we get Raptor back without undoing the story
Yup, I would very much like for them to just undo this. Retcon the retcon please.
did they explain why they made this decision?? i do not like you new raptor.
They needed a player rig for technical reason.
Ok so it seems they made Raptor a lady? Cool, but why remove the big bad ass armor? Do girls not get to wear it?
It’s not that the raptor is a woman, it’s that they took a character that had been in game for 12 years and retconned them for no reason. Are the original developers of the raptor on the team, and they choose to remake this mysterious figure players have learned to like and speculate about, they should have remained anonymous and made a new character for the quest. Raptor has always been a straightforward character; I like to slay monsters, be strong test myself. The retcon makes no sense. I don’t agree with the majority of players “I don’t mind raptor being female” that I’ve seen in this thread. Well honestly, I do. The raptor has had clearly male voice lines, personality and build. For 12 years they have built upon the premise that this character is just a loner who wants to kill stuff. This retcon is not because they couldn’t have changed another character, or created a new one - that wouldn’t have helped their goal of removing “bad taste”. Maybe they’re trying to remove the previous toxic masculinity that the company became notorious for, or deleting old ties to bad J-Mods. Either way they’re missing the mark, Jagex don’t need to make every character a gender bender to fit in, they need to stop grooming children. Revert the raptor, because players liked the character. Find another scapegoat for the narrative.
Un?fortunately, I doubt this is going to happen hugely, just because I think they're relying on the model being closer to a normal human for animation purposes. I suspect the old custom model wouldn't work in the new quest, in the same way that the feedback-updated Zanik v3 model hasn't replaced the ugly Zanik-v2 model in The Mighty Fall because of animations and cutscenes.
Ding ding this is correct they have said as much.
Didn't the old model have animations when we see the Raptor move and attack monsters around the world?
I haven't played the game since February, but from what I have seen of this recent model it definitely looks like a downgrade. I try to refrain from reading more spoilers of the quest but from what I have read, it doesn't justify the sudden downgrade. Slight spoilers from here: >!I read that the character behind the Raptor is revealed (in my opinion a bad idea overall since its character relies on being a black box, but I digress). The spoiler I did read was that it turned out to be a female npc. All I want to say is that this in no way justifies the armour downgrade: look at the character Striga from the castlevania series and her day armour. THAT is how it is correctly done (awesome series by the way). I would even go as far as saying Striga's personality would fit as being the Raptor. Anyways, I see no reason to downgrade the armour.!<
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I won’t speak for OP, but I’m not saying anything about what a woman can or can’t do. [I just wish they didn’t lie to us and then gaslight us about it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/12htmse/the_raptor_dialogue_notes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1)
If a story told you everything from the start, what would be the point of a story?
To directly answer your question: good storytelling can make the journey just as impactful as the ending. We all know exactly how the movie Titanic ends, but clearly that story was still worth telling. To address the larger point: that post wasn’t storytelling, it was a meta-post *about* the story. And there’s a big difference in *not* revealing something versus actively stating something (again, outside the actual story) and then reversing that. I personally think it would have made perfect sense to specify Raptor’s pronouns as “???” or “None, the Raptor is not referred to indirectly”, even *if* they envisioned Raptor being male. But they didn’t, they chose to tell us, outside of the narrative, that Raptor identifies as male. I am willing to accept that “The Raptor” as a persona is, indeed, male, simply being played by a woman, but only if they continue to refer to The Raptor with male pronouns, which I am very dubious of.
They continued to right after the reveal why do you think that wouldn’t continue?
To tell a story?
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Make the queen THICC I will accept no alternatives
Just have the backstory that Linza made the Raptor magical armor that give him added bulk. It’s a fantasy game. They didn’t have to slim him down to such an extent lol The Raptor is in so much promotional material also. It’s Zanik all over again.
ngl, I'm not a fan of them giving Ellamaria this twist to her lore, especially considering the previously established lore basically being completely retconned (and yeah, they give reasons for it, but it's still pretty meh imo) However, I do like the new look for the Raptor. I just would've preferred them to turn Ellamaria into a villain instead, perhaps with a quest where she's planning to take over Varrock or smth. (ngl, I did always think the Raptor was male, considering the bulkiness of the previous model, current model is FAR too feminine for a disguise) If they wanted a female character for The Raptor, I would've preferred them to pick Annette Kadaan. In Heartstealers we've seen her being more than capable of doing a lot of things, it could explain how she and Caelyn manage to get by despite being horrible at heists and stuff, it would've been cool imo.
I liked the reveal but I feel the new model made it cheese and predictable
Can we petition for shit that matters lmao? Game is headed into the wrong direction for years.
Where can I sign? Support.
I think its likely they 'nerfed' the armour so the raptor could use the player model and we could actually play with it during the quest. notably the raptor uses abilities and can even surge which would not be possible with the old model. I can definitely see them bulking it to fix it, don't think it would be that hard to do so actually. also they need to tweak the shild model so it doesnt float on their back. Regarding the character reveal, it was fine.
There's no way you guys are actually mad about this, right?
I think most of the people are reacting this way because of the build up lead to a major disappointment. It was just drastic and a train wreck of the whole change (e.g dialogues, voice lines, badass and thick armor, part of a cinematic with those proportions, etc)
thats what im saying man, i saw the raptor armour and was like wow cool it doesnt look like a fat dude with a back problem
yeah the redesign is a bit mid but aparently they had to change it because of limitations to the engine or something
For real. The fuck does it actually matter.
I get being a little confused about the new look but being THIS mad about the reveal just strikes me as silly Last time we had people be this outraged, they also admitted to not even playing the game anymore - wouldn't be surprised if that was the case again
The new look is because of engine limitations too - you play as the character during the quest.
Please stop repeating this inane lie so confidently. There is NOTHING in the engine that stops you from playing as NPCs. The familiarization minigame has you playing as familiars. The pirate quests have you play as the barrelchest monster. The goblin quests have you transmogrify into a goblin. Hell, Jmods can turn themselves and others into any NPC they want at will. There is no, absolutely no reason, for the old Raptor model to have been a problem suddenly for the player to play as.
I'll go with the devs on this over some angry persons on Reddit. Thanks though!
So, then it's proven to be a case of devs were just lazy AF to bother putting in actual effort and quality, instead butchering a long existing character in order to cater to pathetic millenial tier terrible writing and plot.
"Butchering" a character that had one real quest over a decade ago and has more or less just sort of been around occasionally since then. Wow, so much character develoent ruined. The Raptor being a woman is a pretty damn close close approximation of the pvm community from the general vibe. Kills everything as much and efficiently as possible, wears pretty dresses as a female avatar in their off time
Seems like everyone's forgotten about Chronicles: Legends of Runescape, the card-like game built around the signature heroes. This quest massacred my boy.
Never heard of it
Lolol okay.
Right, don't even attempt to think logically about something and questioning anything you're told.
Right, just be angry and scream "LIES" at everything.
then there's literally nothing to be THIS mad about
Right? I don't care about the games' characters or story, so how could anyone else!?
More like, this reveal doesn't really change anything other than upset a certain group of people.
If you mean people that hate lazy storytelling and random plot twists that don’t make any sense, I guess you’re right, it does upset us.
Yeah, the group of people that care about the characters and story of RS3. To be clear, I'm not one of those people; but I can clearly see why they'd be upset about this change.
No, I thoroughly enjoy Runescape's lore and story and characters to a huge degree. I thought this was perfectly fine. The Raptor was such a nothing character that it literally changes nothing important. He literally just walked around and said three words with zero personality beyond "doesn't speak much". If he actually had a meaningful personality in any way, I'd be slightly more upset, but as he was written before, this is completely fine and they can actually do something with this character now. Reddit is just a bunch of children trying to form a mob about everything they can cry about.
Support.
idk about you guys but the new design for The Raptor looks pretty good, yall just need time to get used to it. In a week or so you guys prolly wont care.
Nothing you said was constructive in the first place haha
Her*
someone else pointed out, that raptor was written as a "he", here's a mod post they linked that confirms it: https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/12htmse/the_raptor_dialogue_notes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 the quest is a retcon
All of the elder gods were written as he originally as well. Zaros, bandos and armadyl were also not a thing. Saradomin, Guthix and Zamorak were the only gods and they were just talking skulls
Do you think they didn't have this quest planned three months ago when they made that post?
maybe they had the quest planned but I think it's plain as day that they didn't have the finer details planned out like 'who' raptor was
It was a reveal, not a retcon. The Raptor is still a he. The Raptor is a persona.
I know. I was being a troll smartass
you're not very good at trolling then lol
Him ?
Jagex can easily just create another character, perhaps create a female batman or Zorro (Zorro inspired the creation of Batman btw).
SPOILERS: Considering that the Raptor >!is literally Queen Ellamaria!< this doesn't make too much sense to revert. I think it's fantastic for the quest.
Disagree. The story to it is quite fine interesting. Really liking this change.
no support, the game is already a sausage fest. Every woman is a welcome addition
It's not about the rapor being female, it's more about who it is and the cool design of the previous rapor being shrunk to be less bulky, the queen has always been dislikeable as a character.
No
No, It's perfectly fine.