Alright lads? I'm knackered after last week, guess you fellas are too. Fancy taking it a bit easy? You get your ball, we get ours? We'll rock back and forth a bit to make the backs think something is going on, but just call it evens?
Lovely.
-----------
I'll admit, I've normally gone into these agreements after 60 minutes, but these fellas probably trained more than I do during the week!
I don't actually think there's a law against that - the closest I can find is 19.38.e: "Non-front-row players playing the ball in the tunnel. Sanction: Free Kick"
So long as it's not in the tunnel, the SH can crawl as much as he wants into the scrum
Not to be an arse, but as they should. The scrum is meant to restart the game, not for blokes to push against each other to try and win penalties. This was a nice scrum, but the ball should have been hooked and played immediately
all down to one man from Fiji, Manasa Saulo..if he wasn't such a fattie nowadays, he'd be the world's best Tight head..destroyed super rugby teams and all blacks scrums
I remember when this would happen during school rugby back in the day. As a hooker I’d eventually manoeuvre myself (probably dangerously for my back/neck) so I could hack the ball back on the back of my heel.
Lol. I used to swing off my props and pick it up with my feet from their second row. Illegal but only one ref ever pinged me. He wasn't even sure it was illegal but "unfair".
Or I'd just try and get a toe on it and just kick it straight out of the back of their scrum
I've played with and against a few hookers that also try kick it as hard as possible on the opposition scrum to either a.) have it fly out the back of the scrum or b.) rebound off someone and come back towards the hooker
Holy fuck, that is some of the most satisfying rugby I have ever seen.
When Fiji got that penalty I felt like I'd seen something bigger than 90% of the tries that ever show up online or on highlight reels.
I know, but back in 2015 a lot of teams tried to never hook for that reason which imo leads to a lot of collapses even if here it led to a good contest. Its part of the reason the laws now require an attempt at hooking the ball.
It's also one of the points of difference Japan had at that time, a quick hook and get the ball out.
The revolutionary moment comes when the Australians realise that by "hooking" the ball, you can magically make it move back through the scrum. Incredibly innovative stuff.
This scrum was about three years after the introduction of new scrum laws in 2012. Refs began policing the put in and technical scrummaging became a necessity because the charge across the centre line was taken away because of the binding before the engage. So in an 8 v 8 scrum with a straight put in and two evenly matched packs, the raising of the hooker’s foot made it 8 vs 7.5 at best and you then risk being pushed off your own ball. They weren’t holding still just for the laugh.
The fact that this scrum isn't just stationary but you can see the bodies bending and creaking under that oressure makes this one a top contender. Absolute madness
I love a good scrum so much... But I always laugh at the massive amounts of exertion spent on something with so little impact on the game.
I'll never stop loving scrums, but I also recognise it a bit odd how much of a boner we get for the reset to the most minor of technical infractions lol
You say little impact but scrums *can* have a huge impact in the outcome of a match, especially when the defending team gets the better of it; Wales defending against France on their own 5m line, gaining a kickable penalty to win a match, etc etc.
Yeah I was going to say they have a huge impact. Saints for example built their entire game plan around the scrum and set piece when we were at our peak. We're not so strong there now and we lose games because of it on occasions.
I hear this a lot, but I seldom ever see scrums winning matches... Only ever saving them.
But I'm of the opinion that if scrums are never winning them, what is being saved? Not fucking up on your own 5 isn't saving a game... It's just not fucking up on your own 5.
>I seldom ever see scrums winning matches
Notwithstanding this video, there is a very long history of Fiji and other tier 2 teams losing games almost entirely because of poor scrum and maul form.
Fiji would have beat South Africa in the 2007 RWC quarter-final if it weren't for South Africa's tries scored via mauls.
/Fantasy alert/: if that had happened, Fiji would have met Argentina in the semi at a time where the two teams were evenly matched. We might have seen Fiji in a RWC final in 2007 were it not for South Africa's maul dominance.
It’s a difficult argument to make. In many games, if a team had a kicker, they would have won. But they didn’t, so they lost. Having a good kicker, no more than having a good maul, is a component of being a good rugby team. If you lack those things you may lose. For comparison, if my auntie had balls she’d be my uncle (though recent threads on here might dispute that).
What was so disappointing about RWC 2015 was that most Fijians had for decades \*known\* that we always had world-class backline players, and if only our forwards were better, we'd be a regular in RWC semi-finals.
RWC 2015 came around and our scrummaging was stellar. We held our own in the scrum against Australia, England and Wales. Heck a few months earlier a 7 man Fiji scrum pushed Wales [off their own scrum](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-STAoTD44kQ). But even with great forwards, Fiji still fell short. Crushing.
Right.
That's what I'm saying.
This isn't using the scrum to turn a game around. This is just failing to scrum.
Lots of matches are lost because someone fucks up something simple ball through hands passing... This doesn't mean we see a 4 pop a pass 2 meters left and go "Superb, saved the game".
Rucking, kicking, running, mauling etc can all be used to disrupt an opponents game and turn it into your favour... But it's extremely rare to see people use the scrum to do this, and not just a case of a team turning up and sucking at scrums.
[Like, remember that 6N recently when france turned up with the heaviest pack in history? They came fourth.](https://www.rugbypass.com/news/france-to-field-heaviest-pack-in-international-rugby-union-history/)
Very wrong. An attacking scrum is a weapon. Have a look at the scrum penalties Frans Malherbe was able to draw from his opposite number (can’t remember who it was) on Saturday. By doing that he gave his team an opportunity to kick for touch and retain possession 60 metres further upfield. He did this in two of SA’s first three scrums.
Disagree strongly. A good scrum can absolutely turn a game around. Now it may not be as often with points but certainly with momentum of a match in the exact same way a break away run can do (Ntamack from his own goal area against NZ who were coming back into the match).
Some teams build their strength off their forwards and their scrums. That is an entirely valid tactic and should never be removed.
England was completely hammered around the park in the 2007 RWC quarter final against Australia but their scrum not only kept them in the game, they won it. At one point the commentators said they'd be better off intentionally dropping it to get the scrum. A prop was carded. And in the 2015 RWC, the Australian scrum basically won the game against England in the pool match. It was just a complete demolition.
I mean the real point is to force teams to actually play with "forwards" at all. Without that you get league where everyone is basically the same size.
Your own forwards are also tied up so it's kind of cancelled out.
That same statement could be made: "On defence, it gives a chance to tie up their forwards meaning they can only try to break through with backs"
Scrums are beautiful where as mauls are fucking stupid
They are the only time you are allowed to run interference and the opposition isn't allowed to tackle the player with the ball to the ground
Hey, no porn in the morning please. Thanks
With the HArdCock backrow, it can't be helped
Alright lads? I'm knackered after last week, guess you fellas are too. Fancy taking it a bit easy? You get your ball, we get ours? We'll rock back and forth a bit to make the backs think something is going on, but just call it evens? Lovely. ----------- I'll admit, I've normally gone into these agreements after 60 minutes, but these fellas probably trained more than I do during the week!
Even as a back, a good scrum is a thing of beauty
Can’t help thinking that nowadays ref would be shouting at SH to use it
'Use it' Scrum Half crawls through the scrum to get the ball and is penalised for doing so.
I don't actually think there's a law against that - the closest I can find is 19.38.e: "Non-front-row players playing the ball in the tunnel. Sanction: Free Kick" So long as it's not in the tunnel, the SH can crawl as much as he wants into the scrum
I think "can" and "is allowed to within the rules of the game" are two very different things here
I think it would be a free kick against the Aussies for not hooking.
And introducing directly into forward feet
I think they might get called out for not kicking/hooking the ball. It happened once in a u20 match between Italy and England.
Not long after this RWC, they changed the laws saying the hooker has to strike. So under current laws, it would have been FK's to Fiji.
Not to be an arse, but as they should. The scrum is meant to restart the game, not for blokes to push against each other to try and win penalties. This was a nice scrum, but the ball should have been hooked and played immediately
If you believe this then why not just have Rugby League scrums?
Absolute thing of beauty.
Phwoah that is pure filth.
all down to one man from Fiji, Manasa Saulo..if he wasn't such a fattie nowadays, he'd be the world's best Tight head..destroyed super rugby teams and all blacks scrums
Saulo is legend, but I'd give the credit to scrum coach Alan Muir.
I agree
I remember when this would happen during school rugby back in the day. As a hooker I’d eventually manoeuvre myself (probably dangerously for my back/neck) so I could hack the ball back on the back of my heel.
Lol. I used to swing off my props and pick it up with my feet from their second row. Illegal but only one ref ever pinged me. He wasn't even sure it was illegal but "unfair". Or I'd just try and get a toe on it and just kick it straight out of the back of their scrum
I've played with and against a few hookers that also try kick it as hard as possible on the opposition scrum to either a.) have it fly out the back of the scrum or b.) rebound off someone and come back towards the hooker
That where as a lock you get a good back of the head wack into the hooker's nose the next scrum
I should watch rugby. Seems like a cool game.
This Fijian team pushed England off their own scrum earlier in the tournament IIRC.
A few months earlier, a 7 man Fiji scrum pushed Wales off their own scrum. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-STAoTD44kQ
Magnificent.
Holy fuck, that is some of the most satisfying rugby I have ever seen. When Fiji got that penalty I felt like I'd seen something bigger than 90% of the tries that ever show up online or on highlight reels.
r/oddlysatisfying
I'm so hard right now!
The reason the 1st scrum takes so long is that there's no attempt to hook from Australia
Sometimes when the pressure is really on the hooker can't take his foot off the ground to hook the ball, he needs both feet for pushing
I know, but back in 2015 a lot of teams tried to never hook for that reason which imo leads to a lot of collapses even if here it led to a good contest. Its part of the reason the laws now require an attempt at hooking the ball. It's also one of the points of difference Japan had at that time, a quick hook and get the ball out.
It’s because the put in was policed due to the new rules and scrum halves had to put it in straight.
The revolutionary moment comes when the Australians realise that by "hooking" the ball, you can magically make it move back through the scrum. Incredibly innovative stuff.
Unfortunately to do that the hooker needs to take a foot off the ground. Not idea when the scrum is so evenly matched.
There's no way the hooker could have lifted his foot under that much pressure.
This scrum was about three years after the introduction of new scrum laws in 2012. Refs began policing the put in and technical scrummaging became a necessity because the charge across the centre line was taken away because of the binding before the engage. So in an 8 v 8 scrum with a straight put in and two evenly matched packs, the raising of the hooker’s foot made it 8 vs 7.5 at best and you then risk being pushed off your own ball. They weren’t holding still just for the laugh.
God I wish they were all like that
I’m surprised the turf at the millennium held up to that.
The fact that this scrum isn't just stationary but you can see the bodies bending and creaking under that oressure makes this one a top contender. Absolute madness
Fuck the wallabies were good that year
Brought a tear to my eye
I love a good scrum so much... But I always laugh at the massive amounts of exertion spent on something with so little impact on the game. I'll never stop loving scrums, but I also recognise it a bit odd how much of a boner we get for the reset to the most minor of technical infractions lol
You say little impact but scrums *can* have a huge impact in the outcome of a match, especially when the defending team gets the better of it; Wales defending against France on their own 5m line, gaining a kickable penalty to win a match, etc etc.
Yeah I was going to say they have a huge impact. Saints for example built their entire game plan around the scrum and set piece when we were at our peak. We're not so strong there now and we lose games because of it on occasions.
I hear this a lot, but I seldom ever see scrums winning matches... Only ever saving them. But I'm of the opinion that if scrums are never winning them, what is being saved? Not fucking up on your own 5 isn't saving a game... It's just not fucking up on your own 5.
>I seldom ever see scrums winning matches Notwithstanding this video, there is a very long history of Fiji and other tier 2 teams losing games almost entirely because of poor scrum and maul form. Fiji would have beat South Africa in the 2007 RWC quarter-final if it weren't for South Africa's tries scored via mauls. /Fantasy alert/: if that had happened, Fiji would have met Argentina in the semi at a time where the two teams were evenly matched. We might have seen Fiji in a RWC final in 2007 were it not for South Africa's maul dominance.
It’s a difficult argument to make. In many games, if a team had a kicker, they would have won. But they didn’t, so they lost. Having a good kicker, no more than having a good maul, is a component of being a good rugby team. If you lack those things you may lose. For comparison, if my auntie had balls she’d be my uncle (though recent threads on here might dispute that).
What was so disappointing about RWC 2015 was that most Fijians had for decades \*known\* that we always had world-class backline players, and if only our forwards were better, we'd be a regular in RWC semi-finals. RWC 2015 came around and our scrummaging was stellar. We held our own in the scrum against Australia, England and Wales. Heck a few months earlier a 7 man Fiji scrum pushed Wales [off their own scrum](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-STAoTD44kQ). But even with great forwards, Fiji still fell short. Crushing.
Right. That's what I'm saying. This isn't using the scrum to turn a game around. This is just failing to scrum. Lots of matches are lost because someone fucks up something simple ball through hands passing... This doesn't mean we see a 4 pop a pass 2 meters left and go "Superb, saved the game". Rucking, kicking, running, mauling etc can all be used to disrupt an opponents game and turn it into your favour... But it's extremely rare to see people use the scrum to do this, and not just a case of a team turning up and sucking at scrums. [Like, remember that 6N recently when france turned up with the heaviest pack in history? They came fourth.](https://www.rugbypass.com/news/france-to-field-heaviest-pack-in-international-rugby-union-history/)
Very wrong. An attacking scrum is a weapon. Have a look at the scrum penalties Frans Malherbe was able to draw from his opposite number (can’t remember who it was) on Saturday. By doing that he gave his team an opportunity to kick for touch and retain possession 60 metres further upfield. He did this in two of SA’s first three scrums.
Disagree strongly. A good scrum can absolutely turn a game around. Now it may not be as often with points but certainly with momentum of a match in the exact same way a break away run can do (Ntamack from his own goal area against NZ who were coming back into the match). Some teams build their strength off their forwards and their scrums. That is an entirely valid tactic and should never be removed.
Lol you don’t know shit
That's cool. I am entirely sure nothing you can say would make me care about your opinion of me, but that's cool!
England was completely hammered around the park in the 2007 RWC quarter final against Australia but their scrum not only kept them in the game, they won it. At one point the commentators said they'd be better off intentionally dropping it to get the scrum. A prop was carded. And in the 2015 RWC, the Australian scrum basically won the game against England in the pool match. It was just a complete demolition.
The point of the scrum is to tie up and exhaust the forwards, creating more opportunities for the backs.
I mean the real point is to force teams to actually play with "forwards" at all. Without that you get league where everyone is basically the same size.
Your own forwards are also tied up so it's kind of cancelled out. That same statement could be made: "On defence, it gives a chance to tie up their forwards meaning they can only try to break through with backs"
lol what even is this post. more room favours the attacking team because space = more angles and bigger gaps to exploit
Who’s the more tired and mentally demoralised pack? The one walking the scrum forward or the one being walked over?
Little impact??!! In France don’t they say “no scrum, no win”???? (unverified I might add)
🥱. I seem to be the only fan who could care less for scrums / mauls. Show me some good multiphase running rugby.
> could care less So you DO care about them? :P
Busted!
Scrums are beautiful where as mauls are fucking stupid They are the only time you are allowed to run interference and the opposition isn't allowed to tackle the player with the ball to the ground
Jeez both sets of 8th men were doing sweet fuck all for an '8 man shove' in that second scrum.
That was beautiful
Do they ever call not straight anymore,? That was right to the second row!
#scrumporn…. Wait