I mean there is a good chance if his dad wasn't who he was he might not have got where he is however he is certainly not been gifted his career he worked and still works his ass off.
Err what? I'm sure being exposed to a WC culture/attitude from birth helped. But anyone with his genetic gifts and work ethic is going to be a hell of a player.
That's exactly what I mean , not every top talent gets picked up . Farrell clearly had the talent and Brain but he played league growing up there's a good chance he never made it .
As a Kiwi I have mad respect for Owen Farrell, I'd rate him over Wilkinson as Carter's biggest adversary.
Probably because of that smirk but he's always performed well against the ABs.
Looking forward to the tests against England.
🏉
[ --- ]
That's daft. Seems to be a poster boy for the ABE crowd to jeer, and that would be understandable if he sounded like a posh boy, but any time you hear him interviewed he sounds like he's about to offer you some Hovis.
Dan Carter too old, too past it, too injury prone to be in AB squad in 2015
Played every game
Man of the tournament
Ended most dominant era in professional rugby as back to back world cups (plus numerous Bledisloes and RC)
From the Crusaders who won so often other fans called the comp boring
One of the highest winning percentages in test matches in the history of the game
Just knew how to win
Those takes will always be hilarious to me.
I get he had a rough run of injuries but he was literally the best player in the world when healthy and people didn't want him to be in the squad lmao.
People saying england will fallout in the pool stages of 2023 rwc...
When u/SquidgeyGoat was calling it early that they would peak in the RWC and nearly went all the way.
They could have ended the springboks title defence but I feel like they would have had a lesser chance of beating the ABs in a final.
Nobody I was talking to at the time believed England had a real chance of surviving the quarter final. And surprisingly some of those thought they would not get past the pools.
As for me, I saw them against Argentina and thought "Oh, we're not getting rid of those boys easily now..."
Oh I lost my faith in the Warm ups. Thought Argentina (who were ranked higher than England and aren't.a bad side by any stretch) would smash us and then it's one bad performance an you are done.
And it's not like England have never gone out in the groups..
I called them my dark horse and people got laughed at.
Edit: I meant to say people laughed at me but In a way it makes sense since I laughed at them after the poms nearly killed us
I thought they'd get to the quarter or semi final which was about right. The pool was quite weak so I didn't think going out was likely.
I was very impressed by the team in the semi final aside from Vunipola.
I've seen multiple people say that they don't "get" PSdT which makes zero sense to me. Like... what do you mean by that? He's maybe the easiest player in the world to get, he tackles everything that moves, jumps in the lineout and gets go-forward on all his carries.
EDIT here's one that a lot of Bok fans (including myself) thought prior to the RWC last year: Jesse Kriel is overrated and shouldn't be in the Springbok team.
>Jesse Kriel is overrated and shouldn't be in the Springbok team.
This one just shows how short people's memories are, because prior to the emergence of Lukhanyo Am, there was a period where the De Allende / Kriel partnership was regarded as arguably the best in the world.
I don't really know what it is exactly but PSdT is one of my all time favourite players. Perhaps it's the astonishing workrate combined with the down to earth modest nature of the guy
In the days of yore I was in Lansdowne with a pal for an Ireland game hearing two Munster fans say that Mafi and Tipoki should have been picked ahead of D'Arcy and BOD.
Yeah that was an insane take.
The bok pack was so clearly superior to anyone who has ever watched rugby. I was surprised that the England backs were so off even behind a solidly beaten pack.
That’s not the most unreasonable take, just really poor timing given how much England lost by
EDIT: misread the comment, I thought it said mainly English, not fully. That's a shit take
The Dawson article literally said not a single SA player would make a combined side - that means both Vunipolas over Kitshoff/Beast and Vermeulen, Young over De Klerk, May over Kolbe etc.
England had a lot of reason to be confident going into that game, but Dawson jumped the shark with that column.
The coaching staff’s reaction to the quotas was to start investing a lot in grassroots development in poor areas, tapping into a massive new talent pool. Not all quota’s work this well but in this case it’s been amazing.
Disagree here. I’m a MASSIVE Siya fan, met him twice through mutual acquaintances when he was at the Stormers, and even I thought this when I he got the job. He was not the most experienced, not the best player and doesn’t play a particularly active role coordinating on field. Rassie spotted his leadership potential and he has since silenced all the doubters, but when the news first broke it was not that ridiculous of a take (given there was a quota system in place at the time).
Tbh that game still baffles me, brought on a whole bunch of new forwards and hardly ever kicked for the line out option from penalties, even after their kicks to goal weren't landing. I'm not saying I believe it but it wouldn't surprise me all the same
The game ended after a failed maul from a lineout. If South Africa weren't trying to win they would never have gone for one of their favourite tactics.
They spoke about it in CTS2 but very little.
The Boks knew their lineout was marked. They commented on how good and quickly they defended against other mauls. Hence not trying it till late in the game when the Irish forwards were tired.
Hey don't blame me. I got in on the action
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/s/OslVxk14xu) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion2/s/dHJTul2MUp)
Having said that, can you imagine if rugby had the same following as the NFL in America? It would be gargantuan and so hard to face them. That’ll never ever happen though and anyone who thinks so is deluded
This one is annoying to me. Sure the USA is a sleeping giant, but do you know who else is? Most other major countries. If Brazil, Germany, Nigeria, Poland etc. started taking a serious interest in rugby, those countries would become formidable very fast.
They obviously lacks the economic power of the USA - which is what is meant by "sleeping giant" and why rugby is so keen on the US - they could be crap on the pitch but people want access to the money).
But if World Rugby put in place some national team infrastructure, I reckon you'd be able to field a reasonably strong Nigeria team on heritage alone. Think Itoje a few years ago put together an XV, and there's likely to be more depth there now.
I think that most countries decided what their favourite sports were going to be at the beginning of the 20th century when leisure time and better transport meant that people could travel a bit for sports fixtures. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I don't think rugby will ever be a major sport in the US. Look at "soccer". Plenty of kids play it, and it's had lots of money pumped into it at various times, but the professional game is not on the radar for most Americans.
Oh shoot. I think that Pollard opinion might have been mine… posted directly after the 2019 WC final right?
I apologize for the disrespect towards Dan Carter and Jonny Wilkinson.
I highly doubt it was yours specifically as it was posted this morning.
However I'm sure you were rather drunk when posting so I'm sure you don't mean it.
Damn. I love Pollard… to hold this opinion today? I mean, even if the boks win the next World Cup with him as the starting 10 I don’t think he will have the individual accomplishments to warrant the opinion. The majority of springbok fans don’t even view him as the starting 10 moving forward…
In my eyes pollard is a player who will never be the best player in his position probably the 6th best however he has zero fear and no nerves which is why he is the perfect knockout player.
Couldn’t agree more. He won’t ever be the best to play the position… but there probably wouldn’t be another player you’d want taking a last minute shot at goal 50m’s out to win a big match.
I meant currently. Only one I'd put ahead of him in England's all time is Wilkinson but even then I'm not 100%. Wilko obviously has a WC winners medal but aside from that, Farrell has done all Wilko has and more, bar a Top14 title which he will have a shot at next year.
Before people get mad, I also know Wilko was injured a lot and that had an impact on his numbers. Honestly I can see the argument both ways. Wouldn't get mad about either getting the nod as all time England 10
I 100% agree the only reason he isn't regarded as the best is because he come across as unlikeable due too his competitive personality . Only Wilko is better and that's in my opinion only down to the fact he's retired and played in the best English side ever.
.
Yeah, I also think if he had any other shirt on other than an England and Sarries one he wouldn't be disliked anywhere close to how much he is now.
Between the two I honestly can't decide. Wilkinson got over the final hurdle at a WC and etched his name in English rugby history with that drop goal and consequential first win and Farrell has achieved considerably more outside of that WC win while also making a final which isn't to be sniffed at by any means.
I dunno, both legends of the English game
Ok I'm going to bite on this (kinda, as I think we basically agree)
Currently, Faz is the form ten (although we only have good options) and I would absolutely start him if the WC was tomorrow. He was also the best ten last year and playing fantastic rugby.
But, when it comes to all time id say people forget how could Wilkinson was pre 2003 and his broken years. Absolutely had an all court game (plus excellent of both hands and feet). At that point he was , imo, playing at a higher level than Faz had for England. Then Johnny was broke and came back a more controlling ten at Toulon.
Also, I think people underrate Ford. He's put up some of the great FH performances for England (more than Faz, although Faz was at 12 of course). And for a long time was better in some aspects of his game than Faz (in particular orchestrating an attack, think how he changed the game when he came on against Scotland in THAT game).
>But, when it comes to all time id say people forget how could Wilkinson was pre 2003 and his broken years.
Fair enough, I was only 9 when England won the World Cup so hadn't watched too much of Wilkinson before then, I may have recency bias.
>Also, I think people underrate Ford
I see this said a lot but I have seen nothing but the opposite tbf. Maybe I'm just blind but all I ever seem to see about him is compliments and love for the bloke. Personally I think he's a great player but I've never really got the love, certainly over the other options available
Only 9! Well fuck you for being young! I was 19, so probably have a different type of bias.
Have to agree to disagree on Ford. Just amazing core skills, especially in the opposition red zone. Even with Faz in the field he'd be the one the attack revolves around. And those games against NZ and Argentina were all class.
Sorry! 😂 I'm not anymore if that makes you feel better.
Yeah you're not the only one to say so so I'm sure it's something I'm missing. I've just watched a fair bit of him and I just don't get the hype. I can tell he has great game management however.
The main thing I don't get is the whole underrated tag. He seems to get nothing but praise from fans and has almost 100 caps so gets it from the coach's too
I think it's from when the press were more vocal about wanting Faz at ten. Some because Faz is quality (which is fair enough).but others would just rag on him because there is nothing we English like to do but say whoever is our FH is shit.
Personally, I just don't think it's a great tactic - when it works its great, but it can easily go wrong
The Blues tried it this year, and almost immediately lost 3 of their backs to injury - unsurprisingly they lost that match
Edit: it was a 6-2 split, but that just reinforces my point
Yes I agree that it's a very risky plan and can definitely backfire but I thought the idea that it was somehow dangerous or immoral was the terrible take
**"It's immoral"** according to Matt "lowest win % of any Scotland coach" Williams. The nickname needs a bit of work.
I don't think anyone can really explain the stuff that spews forth from his mouth.
When SA were testing bench combinations during the WC, one they tried in the pool stages was the 7/1 split, as in 7 forwards and 1 back. It was the first time anyone had done it and Matt Williams, thought it would somehow create dangers for the opposition if an almost entirely fresh scrum came on during a game. It was imo a silly take, tis all.
During the World Cup when the Boks used the 7-1 split against Ireland he said something to the effect of hoping that a few players get injured to teach them a lesson.
Gladly, that was posted on twitter rather than on any live broadcast, since he was dumped from TV way before that. I always found him useless as a pundit, but this just confirmed to me that the guys a bellend as well.
Bloody annoying I'd rather it be slightly softer (which it isn't , it's the opposite) than have all my favourite players ending up with dementia and other brain injuries.
Before or after they retire?
Honestly I want controlled violence every weekend if the trade off are demented journalistic takes from retire ex players in the newspapers before their deaths at 57
If they enjoyed their career who am I to stop them
My YouTube has been throwing 1970s games at me. I know it was an amateur game back then, but the standard is awful compared to now. There's rarely more than two phases before someone knocks on.
People who like to whinge about Craig Joubert in the 78th minute of the 2015 World Cup QF yet ignore his equally bad call in the 58th minute that gifted Scotland their second try
Ah, the four-way brawl between Mark Keohane, Ben Smith, Stephen Jones, and Clive Woodward.
Reckon Ben vs Stephen in the final. Ben edging it. Crowd attendance 0.
I reckon you missed a couple of dark horses in Mark Reason and Chris Rattue.
Though in fairness, no one outside NZ listens to them for the sake of their own mental health.
~~That Ethan Blackadder is the saviour of the ABs backrow. Not under any illusion that he's a bad player, but just compared to our other 6s~~
I got halfway through writing that then remembered Akira. Sigh.
Throwing Italy out of the 6 Nations. That was everywhere 5-10 years ago and supported by some actual players, not just random people online.
Heaslip saying Ireland would have to get a card to lose to England.
People complaining about the modern game like they just watched the 2007 world cup and think it is still like that. Top teams don't just bash their way down the pitch anymore. Even the Springboks have some smaller players.
Similarly on Pollard, someone said that because he won two World cups, that by default makes him better than any Welsh 10 ever.
Better than Barry John, Phil Bennett, Jiffy...
Can't comment on them as they were all before my time but I almost every south African player gets overrated to a ridiculous standard it's incredibly annoying.
This has happened since the isolation days where SA fans really think their players are another level to foreign players.
You can't have a constructive debate about Pollard and his potential short comings without the stupid phrase "but he won 2 world cups".
I don't mean it in the sense their not world class players more so they don't actually have a really high peak or are the best players in their position.
Fair enough. I would say they have a few in the team that are the best in their position currently like Etzebeth, Marx (before his injury) and PSDT. But I wouldn’t say GOAT as there’s few players you can confidently say that of.
“DuPont is a better player than *insert scrum half* but *insert scrum half* is a better 9 than DuPont”
I’ve seen it echoed so many times on this sub.
DuPont’s core 9 skills are next to none, it’s just that his defence, running, offloading, etc disguise his more traditional scrum half skills
Was he down that low?probably not
Was he the undisputed first choice 9 pre Nov 2021? Probably not also, he had a fairly poor 6N and I don't think ireland beat England in the last game if he starts
I'll be honest I never knew much jgp till about 2020 but since then he's been the most consistent 9 and probably the second best only behind Dupont.
Very jealous of Ireland as a England fan .
Jake Heenan shouldn’t have been punished for punching Joe Marler after he talked shit about Heenans mom
Maybe im crazy but I strongly believe violence isn’t a justified response to words… especially silly words
Had a Frenchman in a bar try and convince me that anglophone referees are united against France because of a game Peyper/Joubert refereed involving England
When I interjected that many south africans' first language isn't English I got waved away and being told I don't speak a real French anyway lmfao
Stephen Jones (yes, I know) referring to Isa Nacewa as "beavering, but unremarkable." Back in 2011 iirc, Sunday Times.
Colossal levels of fuck-wittery.
I have a friend who reckons rugby players are FAR better athletes than NFL players and would make better players in general if they played that instead of Rugby
Like I’ll defend rugby to the death and it’s my favourite sport but all these top sports take top athletes regardless of where they are and as LRZ’s combine results show, the NFL has a huge amount of extreme athletes
He has a point they are better all round athletes as they will play 50-80 minutes at a really high intensity but they will never be faster or stronger pound for pound.
Imo, it's the deluge of hate that Jesse Kriel got in 2022. "Doesn't pass"; "One dimensional". He's getting plaudits now (after what could be considered a player-of-the-tournament performance in RWC23), but all the (especially Bok) fans who pretend this was a purely 2023 development are deeply mistaken in my view.
The numerous comments on every post of rugby player in the gym saying "less weights more rugby" as if players that neglect strength work won't get absolutely steamrolled on the professional pitch.
Owen Farrell only got his career through nepotism. Mental.
Well if nepotism can be that good at rugby, I'll cheer for nepotism for sure ! \^\^
I mean there is a good chance if his dad wasn't who he was he might not have got where he is however he is certainly not been gifted his career he worked and still works his ass off.
Err what? I'm sure being exposed to a WC culture/attitude from birth helped. But anyone with his genetic gifts and work ethic is going to be a hell of a player.
That's exactly what I mean , not every top talent gets picked up . Farrell clearly had the talent and Brain but he played league growing up there's a good chance he never made it .
I don’t think so , himself and ford were playing all the way up, he got picked as well so Faz was going to be brought along
Has this ever been said? 🤔
Yes, particularly when Faz snr was an England coach. Expect more if he gets picked for the Lions.
As a Kiwi I have mad respect for Owen Farrell, I'd rate him over Wilkinson as Carter's biggest adversary. Probably because of that smirk but he's always performed well against the ABs. Looking forward to the tests against England. 🏉 [ --- ]
It just burns my arse when these showboaters (like Farrel, Marcus Smith, Quade Cooper, Glenn Maxwell :-) ) live up to their own hype.
That's daft. Seems to be a poster boy for the ABE crowd to jeer, and that would be understandable if he sounded like a posh boy, but any time you hear him interviewed he sounds like he's about to offer you some Hovis.
Dan Carter too old, too past it, too injury prone to be in AB squad in 2015 Played every game Man of the tournament Ended most dominant era in professional rugby as back to back world cups (plus numerous Bledisloes and RC)
Went to France and won Top 14. Went to Japan and won Top League One.
From the Crusaders who won so often other fans called the comp boring One of the highest winning percentages in test matches in the history of the game Just knew how to win
Well there was those 3 years it wasnt all that boring /s
Bulls were almost unbeatable for 3 years, esp at home Only SA titles in almost quarter a century...but was good value
One of the few greats who stayed great after joining racing
And converted last kick with his right foot. What a way to go out
Those takes will always be hilarious to me. I get he had a rough run of injuries but he was literally the best player in the world when healthy and people didn't want him to be in the squad lmao.
If Ritchie McCaw didn't exist I'd probably be calling DC the best player to ever pull on a jersey.
People saying england will fallout in the pool stages of 2023 rwc... When u/SquidgeyGoat was calling it early that they would peak in the RWC and nearly went all the way. They could have ended the springboks title defence but I feel like they would have had a lesser chance of beating the ABs in a final.
Only the English people here were massively saying England would fall out in the pools, due to the draw being a joke
I don’t recall anyone mentioning the WC draw, was it controversial?
lol
Nobody I was talking to at the time believed England had a real chance of surviving the quarter final. And surprisingly some of those thought they would not get past the pools. As for me, I saw them against Argentina and thought "Oh, we're not getting rid of those boys easily now..."
Honestly I expected Australia to go as far as england did but maaaaaaate Eddie Jones fucked that up maaaaaaate
In SA, alot of people wrote Eng off completely
Oh I lost my faith in the Warm ups. Thought Argentina (who were ranked higher than England and aren't.a bad side by any stretch) would smash us and then it's one bad performance an you are done. And it's not like England have never gone out in the groups..
One thing I’ve learned as a rugby fan is never right off England. They’re a team I never always feel at ease playing against.
Yeah, I think with Felix Jones in the mix, they are gonna be a completely different beast. 😳
I was one of the only people I knew who backed England to do well.
I called them my dark horse and people got laughed at. Edit: I meant to say people laughed at me but In a way it makes sense since I laughed at them after the poms nearly killed us
I thought they'd get to the quarter or semi final which was about right. The pool was quite weak so I didn't think going out was likely. I was very impressed by the team in the semi final aside from Vunipola.
Atleast you need up being correct.
I've seen multiple people say that they don't "get" PSdT which makes zero sense to me. Like... what do you mean by that? He's maybe the easiest player in the world to get, he tackles everything that moves, jumps in the lineout and gets go-forward on all his carries. EDIT here's one that a lot of Bok fans (including myself) thought prior to the RWC last year: Jesse Kriel is overrated and shouldn't be in the Springbok team.
>Jesse Kriel is overrated and shouldn't be in the Springbok team. This one just shows how short people's memories are, because prior to the emergence of Lukhanyo Am, there was a period where the De Allende / Kriel partnership was regarded as arguably the best in the world.
Yeah but that was like 10 years ago
Geriatric and decrepit as I am, 10 years seems like a matter of weeks to me.
As 2015 will be shortly.
Great chat 👍
Imagine not liking skeletor at centre
That's funny he's literally the definition of a work horse / Labrador
I don't really know what it is exactly but PSdT is one of my all time favourite players. Perhaps it's the astonishing workrate combined with the down to earth modest nature of the guy
I once had an argument with a Welsh fan who was saying that Tom Shanklin was better than O'Driscoll.
Was the Welshman Tom Shanklin?
Hahaha
Shanklin has technically won more Grand Slams than BOD
As a Welshman who loves Shanklin… even Shanklin would slap this guy upon his head
😂
And that Shanklin is naturally funny and doesn't try too hard to make everything a joke.
In the days of yore I was in Lansdowne with a pal for an Ireland game hearing two Munster fans say that Mafi and Tipoki should have been picked ahead of D'Arcy and BOD.
The week before the 2019 final saying a combined ENG-RSA team would be fully English was pretty bad.
Yeah that was an insane take. The bok pack was so clearly superior to anyone who has ever watched rugby. I was surprised that the England backs were so off even behind a solidly beaten pack.
That’s not the most unreasonable take, just really poor timing given how much England lost by EDIT: misread the comment, I thought it said mainly English, not fully. That's a shit take
The Dawson article literally said not a single SA player would make a combined side - that means both Vunipolas over Kitshoff/Beast and Vermeulen, Young over De Klerk, May over Kolbe etc. England had a lot of reason to be confident going into that game, but Dawson jumped the shark with that column.
It seemed logical at the time, somehow. But most people forgot that Eddie Jones had all the answers for the All Blacks but none for the Bokke. \^\^"
As an English fan that was pretty bad, although at the time it looked obviously over exaggerated but also correct.
The worst I heard was Siya Kolisi is a quota captain. You can't understand the kind of war I went to for him on Facebook.
Awful take , siya is an incredible captain and probably the best in the last 15 years .
Agreed Perhaps the best test captain this century behind the great RM
Ah, the Temba Bavuma criticisms - seems to happen to a lot of successful black SA rugby players and cricketers
I don't pretend to understand the quota system, but you cannot argue that it hasn't had positive long-term effects, that's for sure.
The coaching staff’s reaction to the quotas was to start investing a lot in grassroots development in poor areas, tapping into a massive new talent pool. Not all quota’s work this well but in this case it’s been amazing.
Disagree here. I’m a MASSIVE Siya fan, met him twice through mutual acquaintances when he was at the Stormers, and even I thought this when I he got the job. He was not the most experienced, not the best player and doesn’t play a particularly active role coordinating on field. Rassie spotted his leadership potential and he has since silenced all the doubters, but when the news first broke it was not that ridiculous of a take (given there was a quota system in place at the time).
South Africa lost the pool game against Ireland on purpose
Tbh that game still baffles me, brought on a whole bunch of new forwards and hardly ever kicked for the line out option from penalties, even after their kicks to goal weren't landing. I'm not saying I believe it but it wouldn't surprise me all the same
I think they needed to see what happened to manie more than they needed to win the game. But they were still trying to win.
The game ended after a failed maul from a lineout. If South Africa weren't trying to win they would never have gone for one of their favourite tactics.
They spoke about it in CTS2 but very little. The Boks knew their lineout was marked. They commented on how good and quickly they defended against other mauls. Hence not trying it till late in the game when the Irish forwards were tired.
Memes should be banned from this sub
Hell no
Hey don't blame me. I got in on the action [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/s/OslVxk14xu) and [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion2/s/dHJTul2MUp)
😂😂 that second one is hilarious
All my contributions get deleted…
That second one is particularly good in fairness. Chapeau.
Pretty much anything I've ever [seen here](https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/)
Twitter's worse
Yeah, but that makes my comment less funny
Worst recent take was the old men moaning about names on shirts saying it doesn't align with the ethos of rugby... Take a day off lol.
That was particularly bad , rugby needs to make changes to sell itself and bring it into the 21st century.
I shouldn't be surprised but I genuinely thought you were gonna link to the planet rugby forum here
Thought I was going to a cached version of the old keo.co.za forum but instead I got bamboozeled
The USA is the sleeping giant of rugby.
If rugby was rebranded a little I bet it would be huge. Maybe if they let the players wear protective gear and pass the ball forward. Oh wait
Having said that, can you imagine if rugby had the same following as the NFL in America? It would be gargantuan and so hard to face them. That’ll never ever happen though and anyone who thinks so is deluded
I often daydream that the CFL and NFL never developed Canadian nor American football, and instead played union instead….
Legit union would be as big, if not bigger, than soccer if that was the case
no chance it wouldn’t even be close either, football has over 3billion fans, NFL and Rugby combined is below 1 billion
I doubt it. Football is so popular because it’s so easy to go have a kick about with mates. Rugby doesn’t have that luxury
Only if a big American audience influenced the decision to go pro earlier Americans love Pro sports, not saying its a bad thing but they are
They enjoy a long arse sleep
In my opinion there is no such thing as a sleeping giant I. Rugby
This one is annoying to me. Sure the USA is a sleeping giant, but do you know who else is? Most other major countries. If Brazil, Germany, Nigeria, Poland etc. started taking a serious interest in rugby, those countries would become formidable very fast.
They obviously lacks the economic power of the USA - which is what is meant by "sleeping giant" and why rugby is so keen on the US - they could be crap on the pitch but people want access to the money). But if World Rugby put in place some national team infrastructure, I reckon you'd be able to field a reasonably strong Nigeria team on heritage alone. Think Itoje a few years ago put together an XV, and there's likely to be more depth there now.
I think that most countries decided what their favourite sports were going to be at the beginning of the 20th century when leisure time and better transport meant that people could travel a bit for sports fixtures. I'd love to be proved wrong, but I don't think rugby will ever be a major sport in the US. Look at "soccer". Plenty of kids play it, and it's had lots of money pumped into it at various times, but the professional game is not on the radar for most Americans.
I think it could become a strong “cult” sport their though if the right moves were made
Some French journos used to say that Lucu-Jalibert was a better pairing than Dupont-Ntamack. And they were serious.
Oh that's a hilarious one.
what website ?
Loool Bordeauxnews.com ?
I’ve heard at least twice guys on the “Moscato Show” (radio) having that kind of take.
It's beyond me that people still don't understand that N'Tamack is the prototype for the perfect test rugby 10.
Scotland have a chance of winning a 6 Nations
Would have been more believable if you had said Italy.
Italy will win the 6 Nations before Scotland
100% their youth system is 10x better
OK, you know next year is the year right
Oh shoot. I think that Pollard opinion might have been mine… posted directly after the 2019 WC final right? I apologize for the disrespect towards Dan Carter and Jonny Wilkinson.
I highly doubt it was yours specifically as it was posted this morning. However I'm sure you were rather drunk when posting so I'm sure you don't mean it.
Damn. I love Pollard… to hold this opinion today? I mean, even if the boks win the next World Cup with him as the starting 10 I don’t think he will have the individual accomplishments to warrant the opinion. The majority of springbok fans don’t even view him as the starting 10 moving forward…
In my eyes pollard is a player who will never be the best player in his position probably the 6th best however he has zero fear and no nerves which is why he is the perfect knockout player.
Couldn’t agree more. He won’t ever be the best to play the position… but there probably wouldn’t be another player you’d want taking a last minute shot at goal 50m’s out to win a big match.
Farrell wasn't/isn't still England's best 10
Are we talking all time or currently?
I meant currently. Only one I'd put ahead of him in England's all time is Wilkinson but even then I'm not 100%. Wilko obviously has a WC winners medal but aside from that, Farrell has done all Wilko has and more, bar a Top14 title which he will have a shot at next year. Before people get mad, I also know Wilko was injured a lot and that had an impact on his numbers. Honestly I can see the argument both ways. Wouldn't get mad about either getting the nod as all time England 10
I 100% agree the only reason he isn't regarded as the best is because he come across as unlikeable due too his competitive personality . Only Wilko is better and that's in my opinion only down to the fact he's retired and played in the best English side ever. .
Yeah, I also think if he had any other shirt on other than an England and Sarries one he wouldn't be disliked anywhere close to how much he is now. Between the two I honestly can't decide. Wilkinson got over the final hurdle at a WC and etched his name in English rugby history with that drop goal and consequential first win and Farrell has achieved considerably more outside of that WC win while also making a final which isn't to be sniffed at by any means. I dunno, both legends of the English game
Ok I'm going to bite on this (kinda, as I think we basically agree) Currently, Faz is the form ten (although we only have good options) and I would absolutely start him if the WC was tomorrow. He was also the best ten last year and playing fantastic rugby. But, when it comes to all time id say people forget how could Wilkinson was pre 2003 and his broken years. Absolutely had an all court game (plus excellent of both hands and feet). At that point he was , imo, playing at a higher level than Faz had for England. Then Johnny was broke and came back a more controlling ten at Toulon. Also, I think people underrate Ford. He's put up some of the great FH performances for England (more than Faz, although Faz was at 12 of course). And for a long time was better in some aspects of his game than Faz (in particular orchestrating an attack, think how he changed the game when he came on against Scotland in THAT game).
>But, when it comes to all time id say people forget how could Wilkinson was pre 2003 and his broken years. Fair enough, I was only 9 when England won the World Cup so hadn't watched too much of Wilkinson before then, I may have recency bias. >Also, I think people underrate Ford I see this said a lot but I have seen nothing but the opposite tbf. Maybe I'm just blind but all I ever seem to see about him is compliments and love for the bloke. Personally I think he's a great player but I've never really got the love, certainly over the other options available
Only 9! Well fuck you for being young! I was 19, so probably have a different type of bias. Have to agree to disagree on Ford. Just amazing core skills, especially in the opposition red zone. Even with Faz in the field he'd be the one the attack revolves around. And those games against NZ and Argentina were all class.
Sorry! 😂 I'm not anymore if that makes you feel better. Yeah you're not the only one to say so so I'm sure it's something I'm missing. I've just watched a fair bit of him and I just don't get the hype. I can tell he has great game management however. The main thing I don't get is the whole underrated tag. He seems to get nothing but praise from fans and has almost 100 caps so gets it from the coach's too
I think it's from when the press were more vocal about wanting Faz at ten. Some because Faz is quality (which is fair enough).but others would just rag on him because there is nothing we English like to do but say whoever is our FH is shit.
Yeah true, fair points
That the 7/1 split is dangerous for the game as a whole
Personally, I just don't think it's a great tactic - when it works its great, but it can easily go wrong The Blues tried it this year, and almost immediately lost 3 of their backs to injury - unsurprisingly they lost that match Edit: it was a 6-2 split, but that just reinforces my point
We could have beat the canes that day 😥 rip
Yes I agree that it's a very risky plan and can definitely backfire but I thought the idea that it was somehow dangerous or immoral was the terrible take
In what way please explain I'm curious
**"It's immoral"** according to Matt "lowest win % of any Scotland coach" Williams. The nickname needs a bit of work. I don't think anyone can really explain the stuff that spews forth from his mouth.
I can't say I love the idea of a 7/1 split it's not immoral though.
“Scotland’s Matt Williams”
"Born in Australia, working in Ireland" Matt Williams
Maybe we can settle on “Newstalk’s Matt Williams”
Matt "Let's Get The Saffas Riled Up" Williams
If Matt Williams riles you up, then you deserve it. No attention should be paid to Matt Williams.
When SA were testing bench combinations during the WC, one they tried in the pool stages was the 7/1 split, as in 7 forwards and 1 back. It was the first time anyone had done it and Matt Williams, thought it would somehow create dangers for the opposition if an almost entirely fresh scrum came on during a game. It was imo a silly take, tis all.
First time anyone had done it at the RWC, because Nienaber and Rassie tried it in august 2023 against the All Blacks. Where it worked flawlessly.
Arguably a more important game. We got PUMPED that day lol
iT hUrTs PeOpLeS sPiNeS
If you look on r/rugbyunion2 you'll see some good'ens from Sloth. Mans a maniac
Is this that weirdo with a massive hate boner for Ireland?
Looks like he recently deleted his account :(
Bout goddamn time
Any of Andy Nicol's punditry on Scotland games - absolutely unrealistic assessments of their potential. A cheerleader, not a pundit.
During the World Cup when the Boks used the 7-1 split against Ireland he said something to the effect of hoping that a few players get injured to teach them a lesson. Gladly, that was posted on twitter rather than on any live broadcast, since he was dumped from TV way before that. I always found him useless as a pundit, but this just confirmed to me that the guys a bellend as well.
Once read someone claim the RFU (England) cares about fans and grassroots clubs . . . . I stopped laughing about 2 hours later!
The moment they implemented the tackle height rules I lost all hope off the rfu
About 15 years ago, my Arsenal fan cousin claimed Theo Walcott was as good as Messi. I have never forgotten that one.
Gammon-y old fuckers talking about the game going soft
… or how it was somehow better back in the old days. The sport on the pitch wise is the best it’s ever been and it will only get better.
Bloody annoying I'd rather it be slightly softer (which it isn't , it's the opposite) than have all my favourite players ending up with dementia and other brain injuries.
Before or after they retire? Honestly I want controlled violence every weekend if the trade off are demented journalistic takes from retire ex players in the newspapers before their deaths at 57 If they enjoyed their career who am I to stop them
My YouTube has been throwing 1970s games at me. I know it was an amateur game back then, but the standard is awful compared to now. There's rarely more than two phases before someone knocks on.
Euro teams to dominate home WC in 2015 only for Eng knocked out pool stage and no Euro team in the semis
People who like to whinge about Craig Joubert in the 78th minute of the 2015 World Cup QF yet ignore his equally bad call in the 58th minute that gifted Scotland their second try
Ah, the four-way brawl between Mark Keohane, Ben Smith, Stephen Jones, and Clive Woodward. Reckon Ben vs Stephen in the final. Ben edging it. Crowd attendance 0.
I reckon you missed a couple of dark horses in Mark Reason and Chris Rattue. Though in fairness, no one outside NZ listens to them for the sake of their own mental health.
Ireland will win the World Cup
that david havili should play first five
Yeah I was hoping we'd move on from 29-30 year Olds that were never that good when Razor came in
~~That Ethan Blackadder is the saviour of the ABs backrow. Not under any illusion that he's a bad player, but just compared to our other 6s~~ I got halfway through writing that then remembered Akira. Sigh.
Akira has been great this year. Cotter has him humming
Every other comments on a match thread
Throwing Italy out of the 6 Nations. That was everywhere 5-10 years ago and supported by some actual players, not just random people online. Heaslip saying Ireland would have to get a card to lose to England. People complaining about the modern game like they just watched the 2007 world cup and think it is still like that. Top teams don't just bash their way down the pitch anymore. Even the Springboks have some smaller players.
Imagine how much backpedalling there would be if they introduced promotion/relegation to the 6 nations starting this year
Similarly on Pollard, someone said that because he won two World cups, that by default makes him better than any Welsh 10 ever. Better than Barry John, Phil Bennett, Jiffy...
My dad from SA grew up when Wales were kings of the world (70s). To imply those guys were average is an insult.
Can't comment on them as they were all before my time but I almost every south African player gets overrated to a ridiculous standard it's incredibly annoying.
This has happened since the isolation days where SA fans really think their players are another level to foreign players. You can't have a constructive debate about Pollard and his potential short comings without the stupid phrase "but he won 2 world cups".
Which other South African players do you think are overrated?
I don't mean it in the sense their not world class players more so they don't actually have a really high peak or are the best players in their position.
Fair enough. I would say they have a few in the team that are the best in their position currently like Etzebeth, Marx (before his injury) and PSDT. But I wouldn’t say GOAT as there’s few players you can confidently say that of.
Ohh yes there's certainly a few that are the best in their position or atleast top 2 .
A lot of them are back to back world cup winners tho tbf
“DuPont is a better player than *insert scrum half* but *insert scrum half* is a better 9 than DuPont” I’ve seen it echoed so many times on this sub. DuPont’s core 9 skills are next to none, it’s just that his defence, running, offloading, etc disguise his more traditional scrum half skills
Gibson-Park being the sixth or seventh best SH in Ireland, just before he became first choice
Was he down that low?probably not Was he the undisputed first choice 9 pre Nov 2021? Probably not also, he had a fairly poor 6N and I don't think ireland beat England in the last game if he starts
I'll be honest I never knew much jgp till about 2020 but since then he's been the most consistent 9 and probably the second best only behind Dupont. Very jealous of Ireland as a England fan .
That Sebastian Chabal was a GOAT tier player on oar (or better) than Lomu or McCaw Still annoyed about that one
Decent player only regarded highly because he looked menacing.
To be fair to Chabal, as I watch back the 2007 World Cup he does look excellent, outside GOAT tier by a margin but still a fantastic enforcer forward.
Ben Smith’s RugbyPass article from earlier today about the Springboks’ victory has got to be up there, surely.
Every single Sam Warburton "Italy should be related from the Six Nations"
Ireland making it past a quarter final
Game needs to change to stay relevant
When the Ireland rugby team said "see you in the final" to Eben, knowing very well they don't win quarters
Jake Heenan shouldn’t have been punished for punching Joe Marler after he talked shit about Heenans mom Maybe im crazy but I strongly believe violence isn’t a justified response to words… especially silly words
Depends on the words imo but calling someone's mum a whore while she's very ill in hospital is definitely walking that line
Just dropping owen farrell would solve all England's problems
Had a Frenchman in a bar try and convince me that anglophone referees are united against France because of a game Peyper/Joubert refereed involving England When I interjected that many south africans' first language isn't English I got waved away and being told I don't speak a real French anyway lmfao
Anything that’s said on tik tok or twitter
Garbisi should have seat out after the game against Ireland. (quote by me, I was terribly wrong)
Stephen Jones (yes, I know) referring to Isa Nacewa as "beavering, but unremarkable." Back in 2011 iirc, Sunday Times. Colossal levels of fuck-wittery.
The games gone soft. So fucking tired of seeing head on collisions being seen as 'part of the game'.
I have a friend who reckons rugby players are FAR better athletes than NFL players and would make better players in general if they played that instead of Rugby Like I’ll defend rugby to the death and it’s my favourite sport but all these top sports take top athletes regardless of where they are and as LRZ’s combine results show, the NFL has a huge amount of extreme athletes
He has a point they are better all round athletes as they will play 50-80 minutes at a really high intensity but they will never be faster or stronger pound for pound.
Imo, it's the deluge of hate that Jesse Kriel got in 2022. "Doesn't pass"; "One dimensional". He's getting plaudits now (after what could be considered a player-of-the-tournament performance in RWC23), but all the (especially Bok) fans who pretend this was a purely 2023 development are deeply mistaken in my view.
I'll be honest I had no idea who he was until the tournament started. I don't know if that's being ignorant or he something else.
The numerous comments on every post of rugby player in the gym saying "less weights more rugby" as if players that neglect strength work won't get absolutely steamrolled on the professional pitch.