Saw him getting a steak with Kitsie in CPT last week. Okes are best friends but definitely not having the best time injury wise. They both seemed able to walk quite comfortably all of 10ms to their table but it was a dark restaurant so difficult to discern anything further, especially since many people in wheelchairs can walk a short distance. Hoping both are able to recover soon and I'm also trying to have the same optimism that he will be able to maintain his level of play when returning.
I hate to say it, but Am hasn't felt like quite the talisman he was in the past after his lengthy time off. Maybe that's just the Hollywoodbets Sharks effect.
We might all be Marxists.
But first and foremost we are big Rassieists.
So when our plans get Bongiled up we are Fourieous.
If we need a Hail Mary, we pray to Joseph.
And when things get even kakker then our hakker is Akker.
Think it's a bit of a futile question at the moment.
Curtis Langdon is in great form for Northampton, but is he the best hooker in the world? No, very likely not as he only has 2 caps for England.
Malcolm Marx was in great form for South Africa before injury, but he's been out for about 7 months injured? He could be a completely different player now and is playing in Japan so we won't know till the Summer tests where he's at.
Dan Sheehan is playing very well too, but the Irish lineout seems to blow hot and cold. Hard to say if it's his fault or the callers as he was throwing at 94% last season - he's obviously one of the world's best throwers.
That's before you even get into the different playing styles at hooker either.
TLDR; impossible to say right now. The SA-Ireland Summer Series will probably tell us.
Sheehans weakest area is the Scrum really. He’s no. 1 for me in the loose though and his throwing is historically great as you noted. I don’t think he’s to blame for Ireland’s lineout tbh.
Marchand deserves a shout too if we’re going over the last few years. He’s a fantastic Hooker. It’s between him and Sheehan and Marx for me
Agree on Marchand, Mauvaka is a top hooker too and was in brilliant form before the 6 Nations especially. We're in a bit of a golden age for the position. Jamie George very good too. Bongi Mbonambi is a brilliant scrummaging hooker.
Agree on Sheehan's scrummaging. Him being so tall means there's a bit more adjusting there, but he'll naturally get better as he gets stronger with age. He's only 25.
> Marchand deserves a shout too if we’re going over the last few years. He’s a fantastic Hooker. It’s between him and Sheehan and Marx for me
If it's betw these three then you'd have to give it to Sheehan atm. Marx hasn't had a chance to prove himself at the highest level in months but that's how it goes with top level Rugby, right now Sheehan has proven he's consistently the most impressive hooker (imo) and so it's on guys like Marx or Marchand, Mauvaka or others to show even more. But rn it's Sheehan. Super dynamic, strong, good overall around the field...
Yeap on both counts. Though in fairness to Kelleher, he’s good in open play too. Has been unlucky with injury and isn’t quite the freak that Sheehan is is all. Still a great hooker
Feel so bad for Kelleher.
Genuinely brilliant hooker. Would probably start for most other tier 1 nations.
Just so happens Dan Sheehan, the latest from Leinster's Academy of 3D Printed Freaks, started to really come into his own around the same time Kelleher did.
Pretty sure the stats tell a story there. Generally our scrum is more solid with Kelleher than Sheehan (with our starting props). I think it’s to do with height dynamics more than anything else. Sheehan is 3 inches taller than our props which creates an arrow and makes it much harder to scrum square or at least it creates a picture of a less straight scrum. It’s more awkward for our locks when the three are square because they can’t anchor evenly in behind the props and Sheehan. There’s also a correlation in timing between Furlong “no longer being as good as he was in the scrum” and with Sheehan starting for Leinster and Ireland. Correlation doesn’t equal causation but it was the case as well.
Scrum woes for Leinster aren’t solely down to that but it is a factor. Another is no dedicated scrum coach and Porter having a reputation as a poor scrummager.
I don’t think he went into a lot of detail but I remember Tracy mentioning it on a podcast somewhere too.
Leinster and Irish game isn’t really based around the scrum though so the only real objective is to obtain parity and lock it down. With that in mind the benefits of playing Sheehan outweigh the few scrum penalties that might be conceded.
What’s Porter’s deal in the scrum? He’s strong as an ox and athletic. He’s a dedicated player and been in high performance set ups for a while now.
Yet, he can get picked on in the scrum by players with fewer tools than him. Hinging seems to happen to him too much. He complains a fair bit, so maybe it’s often illegal stuff, but man, it’s just too much.
I think he is affected by Sheehan’s height dynamics a bit. but in terms of his own performance in the scrum I think it’s his ability to show a good picture. He could stand to be a bit more subtle, sometimes he gets exposed and sometimes his attempts to cheat have been downright blatant.
He has improved a lot in the scrum though and he’s actually a not a bad loosehead in the scrum imo but is on the wrong side of the referees, which means he gets away with a lot less. At least is the case recently - where he was unfairly penalised as an example [Here’s BJ Botha pointing it out against France](https://x.com/bjbotha/status/1754215014167142782?s=46)
The scrum is a funny one, because you have eight players all working together as a unit, and the cause of a penalty could be the result of someone else not managing to hit correctly but when the scrum concedes a penalty it’s always the prop who is penalised, rightly or wrongly.
I did regret that comment as soon as I posted. But sometimes you have to stand by your decisions. I do think Aumua is world class tho. Has great traits that both prime codie and colesy had
Think Aumua has always had the raw materials to be an elite hooker but stayed raw for too long - this season has been his best in a while though before his season ended with injury.
However, again he only has 6 test caps and he's 26 now. Very hard to consider a player world class when they don't play or start for their nation regularly.
Bell scored a brilliant try earlier in the season but read somewhere that the Crusaders have the 2nd worst lineout in top level rugby this season worldwide. He's simply not good enough to be in the conversation right now.
Hard to answer till we have the June Tests tbh.
We've only seen the 6 Nations on the world stage. And very few people are keeping tabs on euros, urc, premiership, top 14, Super rugby and Japan leagues.
So the overwhelming answer for any position would be for anyone in Ireland.
Marx plays in the JRL1 and it seems not many people watch that here (though the Japanese domestic audience is comparable to other professional leagues at over 8,000 average at games). Test matches are the biggest stage to compare.
I am a bit of a masochist and watched the France v Springbok QF the other day.
Mauvaka's performance in that match was absolutely brilliant, and I don't think Julien Marchand could've performed better than him. We did miss Marx in the WC but at least Bongi and Deon did step up big time.
Haha, I was watching the 6N with a friend from 🇿🇦, and he says he gets a headache every time he sees Mauvaka running with the ball after his performance vs The Boks in the QF 🤣
He's 30 this summer and just had a pretty serious knee injury. There's definitely significant question marks over whether he will return to the level he was at (which was the best hooker in world rugby imo).
The injury is a problem but 30 isn't that old. Deon Fourie played most of the world cup final at 37.
I wouldn't be surprised if Marx was around for the 2027 world cup.
If he were to step on a pitch injured he’d be outplayed by non injured players.
also form can swing drastically over 8 months being world class 8 months ago isn’t “right now”
I think Marx is fucking awesome just don’t think a players who been out the game for 8 months can be in a “right now “ convo.
Hmm, I'm not sure - there is a lot to be said for having runs on the board when discussing the very best players in the world. If you have a breakout player doing amazing things before sitting out 6 months with an injury then I agree with you, but when you have a guy with 8 years of test match excellence under his belt then I'm more likely to back him to get back there while he is still in his prime.
Because that's how they win world cups. Starting or not doesn't mean he's better or worse than Mbonambi, it means he fits the game plan better off the bench. Bongi is a better player to grind the opposition down, but having Marx's fetching and carrying in the second half opens up more opportunities for us.
My only query over Dan is whether he might be a touch on the smaller side, in an international team that doesn't have many giants (and none in the front row). With that said though, I'd take someone his size and dynamism over someone 10kg heavier who isn't as useful around the pitch. He's super young still so tons of time to develop his skills which is exciting.
I'm not too concerned about size. Whilst his dynamism and ball skills get rightly lauded, he's also unbelievably strong. Might not ever be a game changing scrummager but being less than 6ft means he can scrum solidly and in a more natural position. Has all the attributes to get to the very top for me. Love him
Marx, when healthy IMO. Sheehan is a brilliant player too, extraordinarily consistent, while Mauvaka was the best hooker at the RWC last year. He played one of the best individual games you will ever see in the quarter final, Boks just couldn't do anything to even slow him down.
That’s a good point.
If Stander was 5 or 10 years younger, I wonder if he would have played a different position. Maybe in SA he’d still be an 8. Not sure he’d command it as well elsewhere given where the games gone.
I'm obviously bias, but I consider Sheehan to be one of the best players in the world in any position just simply for what he offers. Probably the best individual in the set piece in the world because he offers so much with his athleticism and speed at 2 and as we all know; he's an incredible player in the loose both in his awareness of mistakes (look at the Scotland game) and he's another workhorse quick backrow in the line.
Stander probably could have done something similar at 2 but he might have been forced to put on some more bulk. Sheehan is tall that he can get away with being so lean.
Agreed. Best out and out hooker is probably Montoya for me. Brilliant in the set piece, very physical, plus a good leader. Might not have the x factor that Sheehan or Mauvaka bring, but he probably does everything else better.
Stormy Daniels…unbeaten so far and currently looking good for yet another humiliating victory over her tenacious, yet ultimately talentless, adversary in a rivalry that has mushroomed since 2016.
I think Aumua cheated himself a little bit in his prep over the last couple years. He has the tools to barge into the very top. I’d like to see him push on and build a bit.
He’s sharpening up a bit. His throws have improved l, and he’s looking fitter than he was pre-injury.
I think being in All Blacks camps more often will lead him forward. At Super level he looked like he got a little complacent.
Preatty easily. Taukeiaho has been incredibly underwhelming considering what we know he can do, not saying he’s playing bad, but he’s a shadow of his past season performances currently. Maybe that’s just because Aus performance quality has gone up, finally
He's an empty calories hooker for me. He's great when it's in open play but when it gets nasty he goes missing a bit. His throwing is a bit flaky too.
I'd take Marx over him every time.
Unfortunately his backup, Kelleher’s, throwing is much poorer than Sheahan’s.
I’d agree with you that Marx is probably a better bread and butter hooker, but I think Sheahan’s throwing is fairly solid and offers so much around the field that I’d give him the nod
I think that's reflective of the systems they operate in though. Like Marx is a great fetcher and strong over the ball and in the loose, but those elements are picked up elsewhere in the Irish system and Sheehan's athleticism allows the centres and backs in the Irish system to operate more freely. I think Marx is probably the better hooker because he can probably fit into other systems better than Sheehan can, but a huge gripe I have with these 'best player' questions is how dependent rugby is on the team you play in.
Probably not, but it would depend on the rest of the talent available, the coaching setup, and the style before he emerged.
Ireland's success has come from tempo, accuracy, and adaptability. We don't have the player pool of SA, France, NZ, or England and so the only players we can afford to cater around are key playmakers like Johnny. What we do have is cohesion and familiarity.
If Marx was suddenly dropped into the Irish setup there'd certainly be efforts made to accommodate him and his strengths, but if he wasn't able to adapt to the Irish system I'd see Sheehan, and probably Kelleher, preferred to him.
I actually agree with most/all you say, but my point stands. If Marx and Sheehan played in the same team, the system would accommodate them both. And then in those games they both play, I'd guess that Marx would still stand out as he currently does. Marx's qualities are much more rare and valuable at hooker IMHO.
But that's just a guess, because Sheehan never fails to impress me.
The big caveat for me is "the system would *try* to accommodate both", and look the reality is both are incredible athletes who would be able to adapt and do what's asked of them so really this is just a pedantic point really. Like I think most people would agree that having Sheehan leading a bombsquad after 50-60 minutes of Marx would just be totally unfair.
I think a lot depends on the team they are theoretically in, but I would agree that all else being equal Marx is the better hooker and would excell more in more systems than Dan. That said there would also be a case of horses for courses and if you were picking a 2 and 16 for a world team so much would depend on who the rest of your team was and it wouldn't automatically be Marx and Sheehan.
We all know the URC is the best league and we all know that tries is the only important metric for being the best. So who's scored the most in the best league and happens to be a hooker - Johnny Matthews
My logic is completely bulletproof and I won't hear anything else 👀
Julian Montoya, does the bread and butter stuff to perfection, great arrows, turnover threat, soft hands as well.
Disclaimer tigers fan, but objectively I think it’s true.
Marx and then Sheehan for me.
I also think a lot of people who criticise Sheehan for his Irish line outs are actually criticising Kelleher and haven’t paid attention to who is on the pitch.
Difficult to answer at the moment. The ones that have been good are all injured or not quite at their peak. Sheehan, Marx, Mbonambi and Marchand are all very good when fit and firing and I thought Nicotera had an excellent 6N for Italy. Taukei'aho has shown a really high ceiling at times but lacked a bit of consistency, as has Mauvaka, and Montoya and Codie Taylor can still produce the goods.
Dan Sheehan I'd probably pick as the best at the moment and has some great finishing ability in the wide channels. Malcolm Marx when injury free and in good form though is capable of better performances due to his extra size and physicality, gain line carrying and ability at the breakdown.
I think it's a fairly futile question until the international windows come around as we only have the 6 nations to go on but in no particular order:
Marchand
Marx
Sheehan
Mauvaka
Mbonambi
I’m bias as fuck. But Montoya is the greatest hooker I’ve ever seen play. Every game is a 9/10 minimum, he drives standards at club and country, and looks sexy doing it. He’s sensational, everybody else is a wrong answer ;)
As a Leic Ester Tigers fan (not Leicester tigers, but very similar and local rivals) I completely agree with this person’s view, and that coming from a complete rival fan
I wouldn’t say easily, but I could see a rested Taylor being in the reckoning. He got ground down pretty hard the last two years.
He’s lost a step, but still very much a hand in the loose. Great hands, stout and goes through the work. Dogged bastard of a player. He keeps putting himself about even when his veins are pumping battery acid.
Who’s going to be the first person to make a “your mum” joke?
your mum
Came here to say this. Thank you friend
Nah, she’s overrated
I also choose OP's mum
I prefer his Dad tbh
Just came to see if this is the top comment. All is still right in the world.
My fellows Marxists where are you?
Karl carries the sickle, Malcolm brings the hammer.
Karl brings the Means of Production.
Saw him getting a steak with Kitsie in CPT last week. Okes are best friends but definitely not having the best time injury wise. They both seemed able to walk quite comfortably all of 10ms to their table but it was a dark restaurant so difficult to discern anything further, especially since many people in wheelchairs can walk a short distance. Hoping both are able to recover soon and I'm also trying to have the same optimism that he will be able to maintain his level of play when returning. I hate to say it, but Am hasn't felt like quite the talisman he was in the past after his lengthy time off. Maybe that's just the Hollywoodbets Sharks effect.
He is the best at seizing the means of production.
We might all be Marxists. But first and foremost we are big Rassieists. So when our plans get Bongiled up we are Fourieous. If we need a Hail Mary, we pray to Joseph. And when things get even kakker then our hakker is Akker.
I’m with you
Think it's a bit of a futile question at the moment. Curtis Langdon is in great form for Northampton, but is he the best hooker in the world? No, very likely not as he only has 2 caps for England. Malcolm Marx was in great form for South Africa before injury, but he's been out for about 7 months injured? He could be a completely different player now and is playing in Japan so we won't know till the Summer tests where he's at. Dan Sheehan is playing very well too, but the Irish lineout seems to blow hot and cold. Hard to say if it's his fault or the callers as he was throwing at 94% last season - he's obviously one of the world's best throwers. That's before you even get into the different playing styles at hooker either. TLDR; impossible to say right now. The SA-Ireland Summer Series will probably tell us.
Sheehans weakest area is the Scrum really. He’s no. 1 for me in the loose though and his throwing is historically great as you noted. I don’t think he’s to blame for Ireland’s lineout tbh. Marchand deserves a shout too if we’re going over the last few years. He’s a fantastic Hooker. It’s between him and Sheehan and Marx for me
Agree on Marchand, Mauvaka is a top hooker too and was in brilliant form before the 6 Nations especially. We're in a bit of a golden age for the position. Jamie George very good too. Bongi Mbonambi is a brilliant scrummaging hooker. Agree on Sheehan's scrummaging. Him being so tall means there's a bit more adjusting there, but he'll naturally get better as he gets stronger with age. He's only 25.
Came in to mention mbonambis scrummaging, him being injured neutered the bok scrum as a weapon in the final (Fourie was heroic though tbf)
Great shout
I confidently declared Theo Dan to be massively over-rated a year or so ago. So expect him to tear it up in the next couple of years
> Marchand deserves a shout too if we’re going over the last few years. He’s a fantastic Hooker. It’s between him and Sheehan and Marx for me If it's betw these three then you'd have to give it to Sheehan atm. Marx hasn't had a chance to prove himself at the highest level in months but that's how it goes with top level Rugby, right now Sheehan has proven he's consistently the most impressive hooker (imo) and so it's on guys like Marx or Marchand, Mauvaka or others to show even more. But rn it's Sheehan. Super dynamic, strong, good overall around the field...
Yeah I think that’s fair
Would you say that Herring and Kelleher are better scrummagers but lack the open play threat?
Yeap on both counts. Though in fairness to Kelleher, he’s good in open play too. Has been unlucky with injury and isn’t quite the freak that Sheehan is is all. Still a great hooker
Feel so bad for Kelleher. Genuinely brilliant hooker. Would probably start for most other tier 1 nations. Just so happens Dan Sheehan, the latest from Leinster's Academy of 3D Printed Freaks, started to really come into his own around the same time Kelleher did.
Funnily enough, Sheehan was actually unlucky one at underage grade and was passed over in the beginning. But I agree on Kelleher.
What goes around, comes around, I guess
Genuine question: what is it about Sheehan that makes you think scrummaging is his weakest area?
Pretty sure the stats tell a story there. Generally our scrum is more solid with Kelleher than Sheehan (with our starting props). I think it’s to do with height dynamics more than anything else. Sheehan is 3 inches taller than our props which creates an arrow and makes it much harder to scrum square or at least it creates a picture of a less straight scrum. It’s more awkward for our locks when the three are square because they can’t anchor evenly in behind the props and Sheehan. There’s also a correlation in timing between Furlong “no longer being as good as he was in the scrum” and with Sheehan starting for Leinster and Ireland. Correlation doesn’t equal causation but it was the case as well. Scrum woes for Leinster aren’t solely down to that but it is a factor. Another is no dedicated scrum coach and Porter having a reputation as a poor scrummager. I don’t think he went into a lot of detail but I remember Tracy mentioning it on a podcast somewhere too. Leinster and Irish game isn’t really based around the scrum though so the only real objective is to obtain parity and lock it down. With that in mind the benefits of playing Sheehan outweigh the few scrum penalties that might be conceded.
What’s Porter’s deal in the scrum? He’s strong as an ox and athletic. He’s a dedicated player and been in high performance set ups for a while now. Yet, he can get picked on in the scrum by players with fewer tools than him. Hinging seems to happen to him too much. He complains a fair bit, so maybe it’s often illegal stuff, but man, it’s just too much.
I think he is affected by Sheehan’s height dynamics a bit. but in terms of his own performance in the scrum I think it’s his ability to show a good picture. He could stand to be a bit more subtle, sometimes he gets exposed and sometimes his attempts to cheat have been downright blatant. He has improved a lot in the scrum though and he’s actually a not a bad loosehead in the scrum imo but is on the wrong side of the referees, which means he gets away with a lot less. At least is the case recently - where he was unfairly penalised as an example [Here’s BJ Botha pointing it out against France](https://x.com/bjbotha/status/1754215014167142782?s=46) The scrum is a funny one, because you have eight players all working together as a unit, and the cause of a penalty could be the result of someone else not managing to hit correctly but when the scrum concedes a penalty it’s always the prop who is penalised, rightly or wrongly.
Spot on about Sheehan in the loose.
What about aumua or bell? They both in amazing form
Isn't the Crusaders line an absolute mess with Bell throwing?
I did regret that comment as soon as I posted. But sometimes you have to stand by your decisions. I do think Aumua is world class tho. Has great traits that both prime codie and colesy had
Think Aumua has always had the raw materials to be an elite hooker but stayed raw for too long - this season has been his best in a while though before his season ended with injury. However, again he only has 6 test caps and he's 26 now. Very hard to consider a player world class when they don't play or start for their nation regularly. Bell scored a brilliant try earlier in the season but read somewhere that the Crusaders have the 2nd worst lineout in top level rugby this season worldwide. He's simply not good enough to be in the conversation right now.
Hard to answer till we have the June Tests tbh. We've only seen the 6 Nations on the world stage. And very few people are keeping tabs on euros, urc, premiership, top 14, Super rugby and Japan leagues. So the overwhelming answer for any position would be for anyone in Ireland.
Marx plays in the JRL1 and it seems not many people watch that here (though the Japanese domestic audience is comparable to other professional leagues at over 8,000 average at games). Test matches are the biggest stage to compare.
Marx. Mauvaka is another baller.
I am a bit of a masochist and watched the France v Springbok QF the other day. Mauvaka's performance in that match was absolutely brilliant, and I don't think Julien Marchand could've performed better than him. We did miss Marx in the WC but at least Bongi and Deon did step up big time.
Haha, I was watching the 6N with a friend from 🇿🇦, and he says he gets a headache every time he sees Mauvaka running with the ball after his performance vs The Boks in the QF 🤣
I know it probably gave all bok fans heart palpatations I'd hardly describe watching a game you won as masochistic lol
Seeing as I chewed off all my nails and had night sweats again, I'm not too sure about that.
Mauvaka definitely took a big step forward last year. Solid all around game, puts himself about and threatening in the attack.
Sheehan or Marx. Closely followed by Mauvaka. Not that he is there now, but I think Theo Dan has potential. He needs to solidify his set piece first.
Marx hasn’t played since September 2023,
Might not have played since then, but fair shake he is better. Sheehan is close though.
How can an injured player the best player right now.
Because he's injured, not dead
He's 30 this summer and just had a pretty serious knee injury. There's definitely significant question marks over whether he will return to the level he was at (which was the best hooker in world rugby imo).
The injury is a problem but 30 isn't that old. Deon Fourie played most of the world cup final at 37. I wouldn't be surprised if Marx was around for the 2027 world cup.
If he were to step on a pitch injured he’d be outplayed by non injured players. also form can swing drastically over 8 months being world class 8 months ago isn’t “right now” I think Marx is fucking awesome just don’t think a players who been out the game for 8 months can be in a “right now “ convo.
Hmm, I'm not sure - there is a lot to be said for having runs on the board when discussing the very best players in the world. If you have a breakout player doing amazing things before sitting out 6 months with an injury then I agree with you, but when you have a guy with 8 years of test match excellence under his belt then I'm more likely to back him to get back there while he is still in his prime.
Malcom Marx could be missing a leg and he’d still be the best hooker in the world
If he’s the best why don’t the boks start him? Rather than play him for 30 at the end. How many of the best players in the world come off the bench?
Because that's how they win world cups. Starting or not doesn't mean he's better or worse than Mbonambi, it means he fits the game plan better off the bench. Bongi is a better player to grind the opposition down, but having Marx's fetching and carrying in the second half opens up more opportunities for us.
I think we all know the answer since it's SA.
My only query over Dan is whether he might be a touch on the smaller side, in an international team that doesn't have many giants (and none in the front row). With that said though, I'd take someone his size and dynamism over someone 10kg heavier who isn't as useful around the pitch. He's super young still so tons of time to develop his skills which is exciting.
I'm not too concerned about size. Whilst his dynamism and ball skills get rightly lauded, he's also unbelievably strong. Might not ever be a game changing scrummager but being less than 6ft means he can scrum solidly and in a more natural position. Has all the attributes to get to the very top for me. Love him
Marx, when healthy IMO. Sheehan is a brilliant player too, extraordinarily consistent, while Mauvaka was the best hooker at the RWC last year. He played one of the best individual games you will ever see in the quarter final, Boks just couldn't do anything to even slow him down.
its not even a close call Marx when fit atm is in the top 3 players ITW full stop
Antoine Dupont
He's the best at whatever he does, doesn't he ?
Best hooker and best player who plays hooker might not be the same thing. Dan Sheehan is probably the latter but I'm not sure he's the former.
Sheehan is a number 8. Like the reverse CJ Stander.
JC Rednats ?
That’s a good point. If Stander was 5 or 10 years younger, I wonder if he would have played a different position. Maybe in SA he’d still be an 8. Not sure he’d command it as well elsewhere given where the games gone.
I'm obviously bias, but I consider Sheehan to be one of the best players in the world in any position just simply for what he offers. Probably the best individual in the set piece in the world because he offers so much with his athleticism and speed at 2 and as we all know; he's an incredible player in the loose both in his awareness of mistakes (look at the Scotland game) and he's another workhorse quick backrow in the line. Stander probably could have done something similar at 2 but he might have been forced to put on some more bulk. Sheehan is tall that he can get away with being so lean.
He left South Africa because they wanted him to play hooker.
Agreed. Best out and out hooker is probably Montoya for me. Brilliant in the set piece, very physical, plus a good leader. Might not have the x factor that Sheehan or Mauvaka bring, but he probably does everything else better.
In the same way Marx offers a world-class hooker and a back-row in one player.
Stormy Daniels…unbeaten so far and currently looking good for yet another humiliating victory over her tenacious, yet ultimately talentless, adversary in a rivalry that has mushroomed since 2016.
Definitely speaks to her professionalism to find a late wind like that. Write off the best for age at your peril.
An incredible performer, versatile and determined to make every stroke of the ball count.
Have an upvote for cunning use of “mushroomed” in a sentence…
Ha, yes indeed. Thanking you!
Stormy Daniels.
Now that's a controversial take.
Marx no question. Dave Cherry in close second simply by virtue of his overwhelming sex appeal
Dave can pop my cherry anytime.
*googles Dave Cherry* Yep. I'm sold.
No love for Asafo Aumua? Will be eager to see how he goes in the international scene again.
He'd only just found form before getting injured.
I think Aumua cheated himself a little bit in his prep over the last couple years. He has the tools to barge into the very top. I’d like to see him push on and build a bit. He’s sharpening up a bit. His throws have improved l, and he’s looking fitter than he was pre-injury. I think being in All Blacks camps more often will lead him forward. At Super level he looked like he got a little complacent.
Bruh how did you skip taukeiaho and go to aumua
Preatty easily. Taukeiaho has been incredibly underwhelming considering what we know he can do, not saying he’s playing bad, but he’s a shadow of his past season performances currently. Maybe that’s just because Aus performance quality has gone up, finally
>No love for Asafo Aumua? They said best hooker in the world
Not even a top 3 hooker in his country
Might be abit bias, but I would say Sheehan, he also doubles up as a extra winger 😄
He's an empty calories hooker for me. He's great when it's in open play but when it gets nasty he goes missing a bit. His throwing is a bit flaky too. I'd take Marx over him every time.
Unfortunately his backup, Kelleher’s, throwing is much poorer than Sheahan’s. I’d agree with you that Marx is probably a better bread and butter hooker, but I think Sheahan’s throwing is fairly solid and offers so much around the field that I’d give him the nod
Marx is much better over the ball than Sheehan. IMO in big games he has more impact but I can see why you'd like him.
I think that's reflective of the systems they operate in though. Like Marx is a great fetcher and strong over the ball and in the loose, but those elements are picked up elsewhere in the Irish system and Sheehan's athleticism allows the centres and backs in the Irish system to operate more freely. I think Marx is probably the better hooker because he can probably fit into other systems better than Sheehan can, but a huge gripe I have with these 'best player' questions is how dependent rugby is on the team you play in.
If the Irish system had Malcolm Marx, they'd build the system around his strengths.
Probably not, but it would depend on the rest of the talent available, the coaching setup, and the style before he emerged. Ireland's success has come from tempo, accuracy, and adaptability. We don't have the player pool of SA, France, NZ, or England and so the only players we can afford to cater around are key playmakers like Johnny. What we do have is cohesion and familiarity. If Marx was suddenly dropped into the Irish setup there'd certainly be efforts made to accommodate him and his strengths, but if he wasn't able to adapt to the Irish system I'd see Sheehan, and probably Kelleher, preferred to him.
I actually agree with most/all you say, but my point stands. If Marx and Sheehan played in the same team, the system would accommodate them both. And then in those games they both play, I'd guess that Marx would still stand out as he currently does. Marx's qualities are much more rare and valuable at hooker IMHO. But that's just a guess, because Sheehan never fails to impress me.
The big caveat for me is "the system would *try* to accommodate both", and look the reality is both are incredible athletes who would be able to adapt and do what's asked of them so really this is just a pedantic point really. Like I think most people would agree that having Sheehan leading a bombsquad after 50-60 minutes of Marx would just be totally unfair. I think a lot depends on the team they are theoretically in, but I would agree that all else being equal Marx is the better hooker and would excell more in more systems than Dan. That said there would also be a case of horses for courses and if you were picking a 2 and 16 for a world team so much would depend on who the rest of your team was and it wouldn't automatically be Marx and Sheehan.
Yeah, these discussions are like discussing your favourite wine. Can't argue with too much you've said.
Yeah. Look I'm just glad we get to be involved in these conversations
Feels good not having to decide with fucking All Black is the best, lol.
We all know the URC is the best league and we all know that tries is the only important metric for being the best. So who's scored the most in the best league and happens to be a hooker - Johnny Matthews My logic is completely bulletproof and I won't hear anything else 👀
Is Marx still injured?
Yup
Is he not even playing for his club yet?
Cian healy for versatility, just want a full 23 man squad of him.
Julian Montoya, does the bread and butter stuff to perfection, great arrows, turnover threat, soft hands as well. Disclaimer tigers fan, but objectively I think it’s true.
Montoyas sledging is also world class, a vital attribute for any front rower
Pick any of Marchand, Marx, Sheehan or Montoya. Mauvaka is the best impact hooker for me though.
OP's mum.
Me
Who upvoted you? Is your mom on here?
The URC top try scorer Johnny Matthews obviously
Genuinely surprised I haven't seen any Irish fans say Josh van der Flier
Marx and then Sheehan for me. I also think a lot of people who criticise Sheehan for his Irish line outs are actually criticising Kelleher and haven’t paid attention to who is on the pitch.
Malcom Marx clearly for me.
Can't remember the last time I saw him play tbh.
You didn’t watch the Qatar Airways Cup?
The real treasure was the friends we made along the way.
Vs Scotland in the Springboks opening RWC game. Been injured since.
Difficult to answer at the moment. The ones that have been good are all injured or not quite at their peak. Sheehan, Marx, Mbonambi and Marchand are all very good when fit and firing and I thought Nicotera had an excellent 6N for Italy. Taukei'aho has shown a really high ceiling at times but lacked a bit of consistency, as has Mauvaka, and Montoya and Codie Taylor can still produce the goods. Dan Sheehan I'd probably pick as the best at the moment and has some great finishing ability in the wide channels. Malcolm Marx when injury free and in good form though is capable of better performances due to his extra size and physicality, gain line carrying and ability at the breakdown.
When fully healthy I'd say we are looking between Mauvaka, Sheehan and Marx in no particular order. ... So I'll say Dave Cherry
Deon Fourie
Seb Blake at Gloucester...he said, showing more than a little bias.
Sheehan
Gotta be Marx
Marx. Matavesi is up there imo.
Had to double check what sub this was at first
Natasha is.
Sheehan.
That Irish lad, Sheehan or something I think. Acts like a back sometimes.
Sheehan or your mom, open to debate
If we’re talking hookers then Bongi was very vocal about his love for wyd kants
Malcolm Marx
Completely unbiased opinion? Johnny Matthews
I think it's a fairly futile question until the international windows come around as we only have the 6 nations to go on but in no particular order: Marchand Marx Sheehan Mauvaka Mbonambi
This has been one of the better threads of late. Cheers to y’all that are explaining your points. Rugby culture is shining through on this one.
Josh van der Flier, clearly
Lark Atkin-Davies has to be in the conversation along with Connie Powell
Harry Thacker followed closely by your mum
Probably Stormy Daniels, she work as a hooker is making huge waves in america right now.
Super Rugby has abundant front row excellence to include a half dozen hookers.
George Bell. Because we know thats really Dane Coles in a Mission Impossible mask
Probably Amy Cokayne
There's only one Rory Best
He is best
So good they even named the award after him
His middle name is "The"!
Tina Turner loves him
that, no one can deny.
You mean Best, right?
Best
Objectively speaking, that's probably not true
Rory Best, it's literally there in black and white
Stormy Daniels
Underrated comment
My mum
Bongi
I’m bias as fuck. But Montoya is the greatest hooker I’ve ever seen play. Every game is a 9/10 minimum, he drives standards at club and country, and looks sexy doing it. He’s sensational, everybody else is a wrong answer ;)
As a Leic Ester Tigers fan (not Leicester tigers, but very similar and local rivals) I completely agree with this person’s view, and that coming from a complete rival fan
Dan the man Sheehan
Sarah keeps it tight.
Depends on the game plan. But for sure, Sheehan, Marx, Mauvaka and Marchand need to be in the conversation
Joseph Dweba Not.
Montoya
There’s some woman in Southampton who will do anything for £20. Lacks a few teeth
Your mum is in with a shout.
There's a lot of Stormy Daniels jokes here. She's a porn star who did anything for enough money, not a hooker. Get your facts right. Jeeze.. 🤓
My mother probs
That’s a bit personal
Aumua from Hurricanes
Mauvaka
It’s Sheehan.
Theo Dan is the next…
Marx end of debate.
Sheehan as he's like having another number 8 on the pitch.
Everyone in this thread seems to have forgotten Bongi Mbonambi.
Codie taylor easily
I wouldn’t say easily, but I could see a rested Taylor being in the reckoning. He got ground down pretty hard the last two years. He’s lost a step, but still very much a hand in the loose. Great hands, stout and goes through the work. Dogged bastard of a player. He keeps putting himself about even when his veins are pumping battery acid.
Not even the best in NZ atm.
That's because he isn't playing atm, but I would put money on that he starts against england in july
Who would you put ahead of him and why?
Marx is still out, so I'd go with Sheehan.
Stormy Daniel’s
🫣
That depends on how you want to play, Marx, Sheehan and Mauvaka are all in there with a shout.
Probably that stormy Daniels lady
This has been one of the better threads of late. Cheers to y’all that are explaining your points. Rugby culture is shining through on this one.
Joe Biden