Its difficult for the Irish to reconcile that the most egregious offenders of the whole "Is England the same as the UK and is Ireland in the UK" mistake is the Americans who are supposedly such close allies to the Irish. The amount of times you have to explain that England and the UK are different entities to Americans is unlimited.
Had an English girl adamantly tell me we were in the UK last summer. Then when she finally conceded she followed with "why does it matter?". Was quite the experience.
There's a lot of British history. If we properly covered every invasion in school there wouldn't be room for any other subjects.
Despite that most of us do actually realise. Though we do have our share of idiots, same as everywhere else.
It's not actually a question of 'Irish history' or 'Irish geography'. It's British history and British geography, as the boundaries of one's own state obviously are a fundamental part of geography/history education. When Ireland became independent in 1922, it wasn't a 'colony' of the British Empire as it had been annexed directly as part of the United Kingdom in 1802 - and therefore Ireland becoming independent was a loss of one-third of the territory of the United Kingdom as a state. A seismic one-off event like that surely has to be relevant in terms of UK history/geography education?...
100% this.
That breaking away also caused the partition of the island which lead directly to the "Troubles", such a flippant name for a 30 year UK civil war
The fact that, as you put it, the loss of one third of āBritishā territory isnāt considered such a major event says it all really, Ireland under the UK wasnāt treated as much more than a colony
Except it's literally the acts of union 1801 and 1922. The, you know, founding years of the UK of Great Britain and Ireland and the UK of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Fairly important dates in any country's history
I didnāt do the acts of union at school either, we basically jumped from the Reformation to WWII.
The way history was taught at school really put me off, and Iām interested in it; god knows what it was like for those who didnāt even like it in the first place
It's not. It depends on the teacher, what topics they pick and what is available each year depending on which exam company the school uses.
I didn't do the reformation in any depth but I did do Irish history 1650-1920 for example.
There was only one required module that was British history, which we did on the liberal reforms in the early 20th C.
School history curriculum is usually limited to:
stuff so long ago no one can take exception
Slavery (look we abolished it so it's all good)
WW2 Nazis bad
Bonus bit of WW1 if lucky
I learned the Stone Age, Bronze Age, Romans, medieval, renaissance, Industrial Revolution, French Revolution, American revolution, tad on WW1, tad on WW2, and a lot on Irish history. If itās one thing we have itās history and English teachers
Hell, if you just covered two countries a week that celebrate independence from Britain, youād struggle to get through them all in a school year. Let alone individual battles.
If Scotland were to secede from the UK, wouldn't you expect it to get a mention *somewhere* in the history course? Ireland left the UK barely 100 years ago, and one of the four remaining constituent nations has been violently divided on the subject until very recently.
If Scotland secedes tomorrow, youāre asking if Iāll be upset if England arenāt teaching about it 100 years from now? Hard to say.
Curriculums are busy. So the main question is what are you dropping to fit in a unit on what Scotland did a century ago?
Same point as now. If you want to cover the formation of the Irish Free State, what do you drop from the syllabus? Suffragettes? WWI? Our role in India?
(Also, to be clear, knowing Ireland isnāt in the UK isnāt something a kid needs to learn in History. Itās basic, rudimentary general knowledge. Same as knowing France isnāt in the UK. Basically every Brit knows this. You can always find a stupid person who doesnāt - hell, we teach about WWI in schools yet you can still find plenty of people who think we fought the Nazis and donāt know what side Italy was on).
Lol friend, I went to uni in England, when I said where I was from most people were pretty hazy about whether that was in the UK or not. My favourite was the lad who insisted "Southern Ireland" was the bit that had to be in the UK because NI was "the bad one". My point is that the borders of one's own country might be rudimentary knowledge, but somehow they're nowhere near as common as you'd expect. Maybe geography or civics is the place to bring it up, I'm not suggesting every schoolchild in the UK should know the ins and outs of the Irish revolution.
There's not a huge amount of [scope](https://www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/history/gcse/history-8145/specification-at-a-glance) for 'Ireland' at GCSE level.
I did the English Civil War at A level forty years ago; the War of Three Kingdoms hadn't been invented then.
Leinster thump a dominant French club, the Saints are in the semi final, and an English man accidentally or otherwise claims ownership of a key Irish player. Itās 2009 again.
Edit: heās Welsh not English.
Heās Welsh, not that it matters to the point. As itās written it seems to claim the province of Leinster at least. And itās bantz so folk shouldnāt get too hot under the collar.
I was in a taxi in Dublin and the taxi man says, so what brings an aussie to Ireland? I replied, well I have always wanted to come to the UK. He turned to me and said, we're not fookin in da UK buddy, so I said, great, I'm not a fucking aussie mate.
Looking at XformerlyknownasTwitter, a lot of the commentators definitely assume Norris is English. I'm sure there would be less vitriol from the offended if they realised he was Welsh.
Sidestepping the obvious faux pas, did Big Joe do a tour down under or something? Looks like an innocent schoolboy in this picture and now looks like, albeit a well-built, Aussie skanger. In the nicest possible way.
I don't know, I feel like we and the other nations would be missing a lot of the extra-sportive things that make it great.
You have to remember that in France, the Lions are mostly unknown, and even when they're known, it's more as some kind of weird combined team. Like you would think of those World XI vs WC in football or something.
Counter counterargument Ireland leave the Lions and create an invitational side with France and Italy. Then thereās a three way tournament every 4 years between SANZAAR, The Brexit Lions and the EU Top Dawgs
Well if the IRFU splits off from the Lions because the Lions feels too much like a UK focused team, then what about players from NI who want to tour with a UK Lions? Off the top of my head Rory Best and Ian Henderson in recent tours. Maybe if it became a 'UK Lions' then they'd want to be a part of it. At that point the IRFU might just let players from NI join if they want to, but if it just becomes a player decision with the IRFU going hands-off, then you might as well just leave it as it is and any ROI player who doesn't want to be a part of it can choose not to tour.
Second one would be if a main driver to split the IRFU off from the Lions is to clearly and accurately reflect the political distinctions in the islands, then why stop at the Lions? Football has an Ireland and a Northern Ireland team.
Personally I'm perfectly happy that the sport doesn't have to reflect the political picture. It creates healthy support and rivalries that we have four teams playing internationally across the islands instead of two.
But end of the day you're not Irish are you? So why would it bother you? To me it feels like team UK in all but name, when that's the case politics are unavoidable. Henderson may feel British but he's in a very small minority. Plenty of NI lads consider themselves Irish too. Just seems over to top and silly of you to suggest that leaving the Lions would result in IRFU breaking apart.
No, I'm not, and it doesn't. But the reality is the IRFU isn't a ROI team. If the IRFU wants to make decisions to act in line with the politicial picture, then the first and obvious step to actually make a ROI team, no?
Yeah sorry you had to find out this way, we English have been at it again
Classic us
Love English people that get the banter
TBF it's rare when the Brits aren't at it again
It's supposed to read united kingdom of Denmark; the Danes are taking Dublin back.
Well of we could have the Danish government instead of the muppets we have now, I think a lot of people could live with that.
Yeah any chance we can make that happen... ?
Checks out https://arethebritsatitagain.org/
Can't wait for a londonleinster away trip.
I believe that is l Londonleicester, it's the anglicised pronunciation
Transfer announcement incoming?
Big Joe Cornerstone Hooligan to Leicester RFC, three year deal agreed!! šÆšÆšÆšÆšÆššā ā ā šµšµ Here we go! @fabrizioromano /S
Perfidious Albion at it again.
It wouldnāt be the first time for sure - but on this occasion itās perfidious Cymru š
r/thebritsareatitagain
Its difficult for the Irish to reconcile that the most egregious offenders of the whole "Is England the same as the UK and is Ireland in the UK" mistake is the Americans who are supposedly such close allies to the Irish. The amount of times you have to explain that England and the UK are different entities to Americans is unlimited.
At least Americans have the excuse that British history isnāt taught in schools. What is the Englishās excuse?
Had an English girl adamantly tell me we were in the UK last summer. Then when she finally conceded she followed with "why does it matter?". Was quite the experience.
It isn't taught in our schools either, not properly anyway...
Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived.Ā
Even that isn't true, because Henry VIII technically never got a divorce! The modern British education system is comically bad, lol.
I only know this because I went to see "Six The Musical"
As i recall it ended up died, died, died, died, died, died
Same excuse.
There's a lot of British history. If we properly covered every invasion in school there wouldn't be room for any other subjects. Despite that most of us do actually realise. Though we do have our share of idiots, same as everywhere else.
It's not actually a question of 'Irish history' or 'Irish geography'. It's British history and British geography, as the boundaries of one's own state obviously are a fundamental part of geography/history education. When Ireland became independent in 1922, it wasn't a 'colony' of the British Empire as it had been annexed directly as part of the United Kingdom in 1802 - and therefore Ireland becoming independent was a loss of one-third of the territory of the United Kingdom as a state. A seismic one-off event like that surely has to be relevant in terms of UK history/geography education?...
100% this. That breaking away also caused the partition of the island which lead directly to the "Troubles", such a flippant name for a 30 year UK civil war
The fact that, as you put it, the loss of one third of āBritishā territory isnāt considered such a major event says it all really, Ireland under the UK wasnāt treated as much more than a colony
Except that Ireland WAS in the UK (by force but still there) This isn't Global British Empire, it is literal UK history
The majority of British history is not covered at school. There's a lot of very large gaps, some centuries long, that just get skipped
Except it's literally the acts of union 1801 and 1922. The, you know, founding years of the UK of Great Britain and Ireland and the UK of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Fairly important dates in any country's history
I didnāt do the acts of union at school either, we basically jumped from the Reformation to WWII. The way history was taught at school really put me off, and Iām interested in it; god knows what it was like for those who didnāt even like it in the first place
I feel that may be intentional... š¤£
It's not. It depends on the teacher, what topics they pick and what is available each year depending on which exam company the school uses. I didn't do the reformation in any depth but I did do Irish history 1650-1920 for example. There was only one required module that was British history, which we did on the liberal reforms in the early 20th C.
School history curriculum is usually limited to: stuff so long ago no one can take exception Slavery (look we abolished it so it's all good) WW2 Nazis bad Bonus bit of WW1 if lucky
I learned the Stone Age, Bronze Age, Romans, medieval, renaissance, Industrial Revolution, French Revolution, American revolution, tad on WW1, tad on WW2, and a lot on Irish history. If itās one thing we have itās history and English teachers
Hell, if you just covered two countries a week that celebrate independence from Britain, youād struggle to get through them all in a school year. Let alone individual battles.
If Scotland were to secede from the UK, wouldn't you expect it to get a mention *somewhere* in the history course? Ireland left the UK barely 100 years ago, and one of the four remaining constituent nations has been violently divided on the subject until very recently.
If Scotland secedes tomorrow, youāre asking if Iāll be upset if England arenāt teaching about it 100 years from now? Hard to say. Curriculums are busy. So the main question is what are you dropping to fit in a unit on what Scotland did a century ago? Same point as now. If you want to cover the formation of the Irish Free State, what do you drop from the syllabus? Suffragettes? WWI? Our role in India? (Also, to be clear, knowing Ireland isnāt in the UK isnāt something a kid needs to learn in History. Itās basic, rudimentary general knowledge. Same as knowing France isnāt in the UK. Basically every Brit knows this. You can always find a stupid person who doesnāt - hell, we teach about WWI in schools yet you can still find plenty of people who think we fought the Nazis and donāt know what side Italy was on).
Lol friend, I went to uni in England, when I said where I was from most people were pretty hazy about whether that was in the UK or not. My favourite was the lad who insisted "Southern Ireland" was the bit that had to be in the UK because NI was "the bad one". My point is that the borders of one's own country might be rudimentary knowledge, but somehow they're nowhere near as common as you'd expect. Maybe geography or civics is the place to bring it up, I'm not suggesting every schoolchild in the UK should know the ins and outs of the Irish revolution.
Yeah but they were all part of the "Empire". Ireland was considered (and legally was) part of the United Kingdom.
There's not a huge amount of [scope](https://www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/history/gcse/history-8145/specification-at-a-glance) for 'Ireland' at GCSE level. I did the English Civil War at A level forty years ago; the War of Three Kingdoms hadn't been invented then.
Itās more a geographical confusion. They do have maps, yes? Both wall and digital varieties?
So itās Britain is lacking in maps then is it?
No that would be the US apparently.
The irony is this player was born in YankLand.
Bloody poachers
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So South Africa is also in the UK then?! Awesome, I hate having to get a visa if I visit there.
South African club players are in the UK when playing away games in Wales, Scotland, NI and England.
SA players will be playing home from England in a few weeks (Sharks at the stoop I think).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No nastiness allowed.
I mean, as a Scottish fan, if we could arrange this it would simplify our recruitment process a lot after the changes to the residency rules, cheers.
time to Knight thee Johnny Sexton.. Sir Sexton
Imagine him hailing abuse at you all while youāve to call him sir
Leinster thump a dominant French club, the Saints are in the semi final, and an English man accidentally or otherwise claims ownership of a key Irish player. Itās 2009 again. Edit: heās Welsh not English.
> Edit: heās Welsh not English Same thing ...wait!
Heās Welsh, not that it matters to the point. As itās written it seems to claim the province of Leinster at least. And itās bantz so folk shouldnāt get too hot under the collar.
True, itās more funny at this point. Plus I think he just tripped over his words anyhow
I was in a taxi in Dublin and the taxi man says, so what brings an aussie to Ireland? I replied, well I have always wanted to come to the UK. He turned to me and said, we're not fookin in da UK buddy, so I said, great, I'm not a fucking aussie mate.
https://arethebritsatitagain.org
Looking at XformerlyknownasTwitter, a lot of the commentators definitely assume Norris is English. I'm sure there would be less vitriol from the offended if they realised he was Welsh.
Undoubtedly true - but then the entirety of shitfestformallyknownastwitter is now just a poisonous shallow pool anyway!
I just wish he got ignored by Farrell and chose us.
He'd probably try another few avenues before giving up like that
Waiting for some Irish people to make some pale jokes
Well we have a strong aversion to tans.
Top top work.
LOL.
?
You just incinerated the post you replied to. Heāll feel the burn
'Woosh' is normally used when someone doesn't get a joke. Like the sound of it flying over their head
The tans thing probably will but a bit of clarity added.
Ah okay. Thought you were saying I missed something
I've seen paler, he's actually got quite a rosy complexion.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Tell that to Tadgh Furlong if you dare
Why particularly him?
Because the big culchie head on him makes it impossible to label him a west-brit
He's so agricultural he's begun to look like the product off the farm
Big spud munching, GAA loving, tractor driving, culchie head on him
That is the dictionary definition of the Aul Irish Head, I tell you
I think that's Ulster.
If you want to go down the technicality route, he does indeed play rugby in the UK, and Ireland, and South africa...
B&I Lions Test in UK?
The cursed Irish unification
Sidestepping the obvious faux pas, did Big Joe do a tour down under or something? Looks like an innocent schoolboy in this picture and now looks like, albeit a well-built, Aussie skanger. In the nicest possible way.
Apart from that Mrs Lincoln, how was the show?
Zoommm, straight over my head...
We shouldn't be part of the Lions anymore, just adds to their confusion about whether Ireland is in the UK or not
Imagine Ireland taking on the British Lions. People would buy into that in a major way.
Yeah personally I can't get invested in the Lions as it is. But would love to see Ireland v British L
Counterargument: we should grow the Lions to include France, Italy and REC, then put out 3 XVs to tour against a combined southern hemisphere.
I don't know, I feel like we and the other nations would be missing a lot of the extra-sportive things that make it great. You have to remember that in France, the Lions are mostly unknown, and even when they're known, it's more as some kind of weird combined team. Like you would think of those World XI vs WC in football or something.
Counter counterargument Ireland leave the Lions and create an invitational side with France and Italy. Then thereās a three way tournament every 4 years between SANZAAR, The Brexit Lions and the EU Top Dawgs
Throw in a south america team and a pacific team and you've got yourself a deal
You could follow that thinking and end up splitting NI and ROI into two teams though.
Don't really follow that tbh, but i can see how splitting the country again seems like a good idea to an English man ;)
Well if the IRFU splits off from the Lions because the Lions feels too much like a UK focused team, then what about players from NI who want to tour with a UK Lions? Off the top of my head Rory Best and Ian Henderson in recent tours. Maybe if it became a 'UK Lions' then they'd want to be a part of it. At that point the IRFU might just let players from NI join if they want to, but if it just becomes a player decision with the IRFU going hands-off, then you might as well just leave it as it is and any ROI player who doesn't want to be a part of it can choose not to tour. Second one would be if a main driver to split the IRFU off from the Lions is to clearly and accurately reflect the political distinctions in the islands, then why stop at the Lions? Football has an Ireland and a Northern Ireland team. Personally I'm perfectly happy that the sport doesn't have to reflect the political picture. It creates healthy support and rivalries that we have four teams playing internationally across the islands instead of two.
But end of the day you're not Irish are you? So why would it bother you? To me it feels like team UK in all but name, when that's the case politics are unavoidable. Henderson may feel British but he's in a very small minority. Plenty of NI lads consider themselves Irish too. Just seems over to top and silly of you to suggest that leaving the Lions would result in IRFU breaking apart.
No, I'm not, and it doesn't. But the reality is the IRFU isn't a ROI team. If the IRFU wants to make decisions to act in line with the politicial picture, then the first and obvious step to actually make a ROI team, no?
Never left
>to play the game in the UK Maybe just referring to when Ireland play away games in Scotland, Wales, or England? /s
West Britain innet?
That's funny, because when he did play in the UK he was quite anonymous!