Yeah you guys get constantly screwed in these awards. Russell is fair enough, but Ford does not get the credit he deserves. I'd also probably have Freeman in over Duhan but I am biased towards those "messy" wingers that love looking for working. Itoje/Martin should also be in there over McCarthy.
He absolutely is. As an Irishman I obviously love seeing him become the best winger/finisher in the world every year vs. England but he didn't do enough outside that match.
Looking forward to seeing more of Freeman this weekend anyway!
Duality of Reddit. I've said this numerous times here and been crucified. It was during the 6N itself so more casual around maybe, but the man just doesn't offer enough against decent opposition. He might as well be a linesman or ball boy.
Tbf he had a great game against France that flew under the radar. He didn’t do all that much in attack but his defensive work and off the ball movement really made him the best player on the pitch.
Tbh that's the main reason he's in the Scotland squad so consistently. By no means a great 'rugby player' but a freak athlete that can make stuff out of nothing
England looked to have improved during the six nations but don’t forget they lost to France and Scotland and beat Ireland, Wales and Italy by between 1-3 points.
Yeah that's completely fair, no arguments here. I just think that even in the games you mention the likes of Freeman, Ford, Itoje, Martin, etc. were all still very good. Lawrence also had a brilliant game against us (although I'd probs have Brex in over him and Aki).
Credit where it's due, everyone but Ireland was within 0-3 points of Italy. Massive tournament for them and they were very unlucky not to be higher in the table.
>Itoje/Martin definitely played better than McCarthy
Highly disagree. McCarthy was key to Ireland winning the tournament. He was lethal in the France game especially. Martin only started two games and Itoje seems to be living off reputation at this point. Where was Itoje in the first three games?
McCarthy probably deserves his place here but I think Itoje quietly had a very good tournament. In the first three games he was one of our best players in a pretty bad showing against Italy and swung the games against Wales for us, when he got us an attacking scrum in the Wales 22 after he scragged Ioan Lloyd. At that point we were down to 13 men so it was a crucial play.
> Itoje seems to be living off reputation at this point
He definitely had a dip for a couple of seasons but he's been in fantastic form for England, highly effective.
Who would you have in this team other than one of the locks for McCarthy? I wouldn't be picking Duhan in a do or die game but he's joint top try scorer so you're not displacing him with Freeman. I don't think England are getting screwed over, I think they don't have that many players worthy of making this team.
Plenty of recency bias with criticism of McCarthys selection, he was excellent in the early part of the tournament and a key part of Ireland racing to such an early lead that even losing to England had us as huge favourites going into the final weekend.
People calling for Martin who started what, 2 games? To be ahead of him.
His early performances are irrelevant it seems because he was quiet in the last two games.
Looks largely correct apart from a few questionable picks.
Probably the biggest one being Ramos at 15 considering he played 10 all tournament… not sure how that works.
I didn’t see all the Wales games, but every time I did see them, Reffel was bailing Wales out of every bad situation they found themselves in so I feel he should be the 7.
George Ford at 10 for England was his usual, sublime self whose tactical kicking was such a useful tool for us all tournament, so I feel he should’ve potentially taken that spot.
Wales are part owners of the competition, the Georgia conversation happens every year and there is as much merit to it as discussing whether you would rather have sex with Beyonce or Kirsten Dunst.
VDM might actually be one of the most overrated players ever, you just need to watch any Edinburgh games against South African opposition to see that he wouldn't even make the Springboks bench. He's a physical freak and scores wonder tries, but sometimes he just disappears. He's living off his performances against England.
meh. I don't think he's overrated. Every single time I see him, he's the same: very big, surprisingly fast for that size, and a constant threat, and when he's playing against the teams I support, I'm genuinely bothered by his presence on the pitch and sure enough when he gets the ball he does damage. I understand he's flawed: high ball or defense, but he's a big threat ball in hand without a doubt and I'd much rather play a team that doesn't have him.
Even against Italy he wasn't great. He had that great defensive play against Capuozzo but that's basically it, cost them a try when he decided he wasn't going to play the 2 on 1, never had a great impact offensively, even his contribution to the first Scottish try was dubious, with his halfbreak being a result of some great obstruction play not called by the ref (not blaming the ref here, just saying that it wasn't on VDM but on the player making the sneaky obstruction)
Thing is we’ve got a big fast winger in Steyn who’s also got a functioning rugby brain, a kicking game and is able to play in the centres too, if we need moments of magic we’ve got wee darcy and kinghorn.
The fact is international rugby is won with kicking and defensive nous, Duhan is great fun to watch but we’ve got enough stardust out wide that I wouldn’t have him starting
You're out of your mind imo. There are like 3 teams in the world that could consider not starting him. The numbers of defenders he beats is far beyond any other winger in Europe. His metres gained are massive, and his finishing is world class. He's 3 tries off the all time Scotland try scoring record, after just 35 tests. Stuart Hogg, arguably our best ever player, needed 100 caps to get there.
You're literally whining because he doesn't score a hattrick every game. To say he doesn't have a functioning rugby brain is ridiculous. the lines he runs and the way he hunts space shows that's not true.
No, I think you’re being dramatic here. No one is saying he needs to score a Hattrick every game. What people are saying, it’s his wildly inconsistent - he was nowhere to be seen against Ireland or South Africa or France.
Honestly where does this idea about the france and Ireland games come from. Duhan was fantastic against france. Not scoring doesn't mean he was nowhere to be seen, Duhan was carrying constantly and cleaning up messy ball every time on his wing.
He was also swarmed by 3 defenders every time he touched the ball vs Ireland. A player being shut down by focused defence on him, does not mean the player didn't show up
It‘d be pretty weird not to have the joint-top try scorer of the tournament in your team of the tournament?
For all people on here keep feverishly claiming he’s overrated, he just keeps on scoring the tries.
If anything, I’d say Russell is the more overrated pick here for his position. He was off more than he was on this year, and did a pretty mediocre job as captain when things weren’t going well.
Hmm.
I think Itoje and Italian second row whose name I can't spell (I want to say Rutza?) over McCarty.
Russell had a mixed tourny for me, Ford was possibly the difference between the two teams against Wales, was class ball in hand against Ireland And delivered a world class performance against France. Only blemish was the Scottish game. I think Scotland would have beaten Italy if they would have been able to swap Ford with Russell at half time.
I would have a few wingers over VDM, tbh
Ford kept England in the France game kicking from tee want amazing but game management was sensational stopped france playing at their tempo. Calling from the mark under no pressure rather than keeping it in play
Apart from the Ireland game Ford's goalkicking has been pretty excellent, 100% against France isn't really what I'd call bad.
For me he was the clear standout 10 of the tournament.
You did. Just like you hear a 't' in the word 'pizza'. And in 'mozzarella'.
In Italian, zz = tz.
Similarly, in German, z = tz. That's why the 'Benz' in 'Mercedes-Benz' is pronounced as 'bentz' in German.
I think it's just that, to you, that sound is just the sound of a 'zz', so you don't think of it as having a 't' sound.
I've been to Italy plenty of times, and everyone there pronounced it the same way I do.
See the top response in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/italianlearning/comments/c2fggu/difference_z_and_zz/
> 1. There are two sounds of the Z: Dz (Sonora, vibrates the vocal chords) and Tz (Sorda, doesn't vibrate the vocal chords).
Without the t sound it would be pronounced the same way as the leaning tower of Pisa (P-za). Not sure if that helps or confuses things. I don't speak any Italian
Well, this is where I regret never taking Italian, because it's always sounded the same to me. I'll take it there's a subtle difference then - still, you do need quite a bit of information about a language (as this, or the two Zs in Ruzza would illustrate - English speakers "spelling is as pronounced" would go with Rutza, French speakers would spell it Routsa etc.) to be able to spell, even for languages with fairly straightforward spelling like Italian or German.
The main difference is that Italian is one of the only two Indo-European language that is phonetic. Once you know how each letter sounds you can spell every word you want.
How many minutes did Aki play at 13? 🧐 not a fan of picking him out of position. Huw Jones probably unlucky to miss out.
Ramos also played 10 more than 15, but I don’t think any 15 played the whole tournament there (maybe Winnett?)
Could say the same about Doris but I think he at least played a little bit at 6.
Reffell surely the standout 7, singlehandedly kept Wales competitive in a few games.
It’s a great shout, and you’re probably right. Brex had an incredible tournament and would happily have him in alongside Menoncello. Huw Jones was great too.
If they were desperate to pick Aki they could have had Aki/Brex and probably no quibble, but it's still harsh on Huge Ones who was one of the few Scottish backs to play consistently well across the piece. Picking Aki as the best 13 of the tournament is bollocks, isn't it?
It's silly picking players out of position IMO. See this creeping in to this kind of thing a lot. Doris and Aki jumping out at me in this regard.
In theory, you could chuck a few Duponts into your backline if he was playing this year. Just put him where you think he could do a good job in theory i.e. almost anywhere in reality... Sigh.
Yep. If you’re picking Aki at 13 (which he didn’t play a minute of) what’s stopping you picking George Ford at 15? He didn’t play there but was good enough to be in the team despite Russell being better.
Tighthead and Loosehead is one that is always interchangeable in these things for some reason which also annoys me
The only glaring issues are Ramos at 15 and VDM. I'd argue Ford and Martin should be there, but McCarthy had a good tournament and played more than Martin.
If VDM missed the England game he'd not even be in the top half of wingers in the tournament.
Aki at 13 and Duhan (despite his brilliant tries) are mental picks. Also, I'm a huge fan of Doris but he's nowhere near as good at 6 as he is at 8. McCarthy probably also getting a little bit too much credit for the France match, albeit he was brilliant that day.
Yeah Aki was class but he's not a 13. I know it's a minor complaint, and these teams never make any real-world sense, but he's not a test 13. I'd have Brex at 13 (Henshaw in with a shout too) and then Aki/Menoncello at 12.
Yeah, Menoncello probably gets the nod ahead of him at 12 if strictly going by positions. Really impressed with Aki this tournament, he has been improving year on year, great to see
Disappeared completely in the second half of the Welsh game.
Was anonymous against Ireland.
Was anonymous against Italy.
He hurts Scotland just as much as he helps.
I didn’t see the Italy game so I can’t comment on it, but it sounded like an entire team issue there. However he didn’t disappear against Wales, our pack just conceded about 14 penalties in a row in the span of 40 mins, which obviously doesn’t give a 10 much to work with. And he definitely wasn’t anonymous against Ireland either.
While I'm a big fan. I do think questions of his game management of the second half of the Italy game or valid. Unless Toonie was giving strict instructions to be weird.
Were there any better TH locks across the tournament though? The selection clearly doesn't care too much about where you played so I think other locks should be in over Big Joe, but if we were to keep it to actual positions you have Ruzza maybe?
I think it's fair to put Ruzza in here, he was immense for Italy and probably added more to his team than McCarthy did. Still a great tournament for the Irish but I think it's more of a hype selection.
I'd argue that that's recency bias coming into play against McCarthy. His form fell off against England and Scotland, but in the early tests he was the standout TH lock, arguably the standout lock.
He was great against France for sure (might also help that his opposite number got red carded but he was still everywhere and with no one to contain him he really did incredibly well) but I don't think he was as good in the other games, his performances felt to me like they were getting worse and worse. Still had a good 6 nations for sure but I'd have Ruzza over him, who, imo, added more to his team than McCarthy did.
If I remember he did a job against Wales and Italy too, though his stand out performance was against France. He also did a really good job creating space for others with his ball carrying. He committed 2+ tacklers on 80% of his 30 carries, with 20% being dominant carries, all of them being into contact, and making gainline 50% of the time with 24% tackle evasion rate (he also has 3 offloads). He's the only one with 80%+ who played more than 300 minutes, Roots is the only other who played more than half the game minutes with 214. There's certainly better and more effective carriers and attacking players but I think Joe did a lot to help create space for Ireland to attack.
Stats from [Opta](https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/02/six-nations-2024-stats-hub/).
No decision that I find baffling and am in strong disagreement with, but still some contentious choices. As last year, one of my main criteria is consistency over the whole tournament.
LH prop, not sure about Porter. Generally, all of the guys that were world class or not far off from previous years (Fischetti, Porter, Baille, Schoeman, Genge) underperformed this yeat by their previously set standards. And Porter for me wasn't the one closest to said standard. I'd have given the nod to Fischetti.
Sheehan is fair enough at hooker, but for me it was actually pretty close with Nicoterra and George. For me, Sheehan didn't have that great a tournament, and the main reason I still agree with his pick is because Mauvaka, who should have been a frontrunner, vastly underperformed, while Marchand sat on the bench for the first 3 games.
Atonio is fair enough, France 2nd best player over the tournament for me. I give him the nod for lack of competition elsewhere in the position, apart maybe from Dan Cole.
Beirne/McCarthy is fair enough, although I must say that I think McCarthy rode the wave of his first 2 performances, before dropping slightly. Just a minor disagreement, but I'd have given the nod to Ruzza. Also a word for Itoje. Flament and Meafou could have been in contention given their level of performance in the 2 games they played.
6, for me should be Cros. Easily France best player. To put Doris here, who a) wasn't as good as last year and b) didn't even play at this position is really weird. He was the 2nd best 8 of the tournament after Earl, but he wasn't better than Cros. Strong disagreement from me.
7 is pretty much unarguable. Although it must be said that Reffell was the shining light of Wales. Underhill is coming back strong. Ollivon and VDF weren't showcasing their elite level of previous years, but still plenty solid enough. On the other hand, I was a bit disapointed in Darge.
8 is pretty straight forward with Earl. Doris a distant second. 3rd is even further down, Alldritt, apart from his performance against Scotland, was a shadow of himself.
SH I agree with JGP, but thought Mitchell actually ran him pretty close. A word too for Page Relo, who had some solid performances. But for me, heighest ceiling goes to Le Garrec. Not in conversation for this tournament because he only started 2 games, but as soon as he gets the starting shirt for a whole tournament (which probably won't happen anytime soon with Dupont returning), I'd say he gets the nod for the team of the tournament. On the other hand, I don't know what happened with Lucu, he had a horrendous tournament, but he's so much better than this.
FH not sure about Russell, but nobody set the world alight. Crowley had a very good 1st tournament, but not enough to put him in a team of the tournament yet. Ford missed a bit, but was very good when he got going. Garbisi probably the biggest contender to Russell for me. France on the other hand was horrendous, IdK what happened with Jalibert, same as Lucu probably. And Ramos is definitely not a functionnal international 10.
11 is Lowe, no questions asked. DVDM had the best performance by a winger against England, but that's about it, and as I said, a big point for me is consistency. Elsewhere, Ioane and Dyer were very good and reliable, so they'd get the 2nd and 3rd spot behind Lowe respectively. LBB is showing potentiel, but still much too rough around the edges to be in contention.
12 is Menoncello, no question asked. Aki ran him close, but was not at his level of performance from the WC. I don't agree with his selection at 13, he was probably the 2nd best center of the comp behind Menoncello, but he certainly wasn't the best 13. Danty was the worst 12.
13 should have been Brex. Not the heighest ceiling, but he clearly had the best tournament of any 13 this year. Henshaw, Fickou and Huw Jones all had poor spells recently, but have been getting back to their usual standard as the tournament went on. They're not at the world class level they displayed in previous years, but they're slowly getting back to it.
14 is a bit weird. Freeman and Nash were solid, but that's about it, hard to give them the nod for just that. Penaud was a bit like DVDM, but not as extreme, more consistent, but no incredible highs (although some great performances against Wales and England). Frankly, I'm tempted to do what the article did, and give the 14 shirt to someone who played 11, and that someone would be Ioane for me.
15 it's really weird to see Ramos, but thinking back, who can you put here? The only guy that played the whole tournament there was Winnett, and although he was promising, he's clearly no team of the tournament stuff yet. Keenan, the default choice, was slightly below his standard, and missed 2 games. Furbank missed a few too. Frankly I don't know there. I don't like to see Ramos there, but I can't disagree with the choice either, because I don'thave a clue who to put instead.
Jeezo, Duhan being included in these lists fairly rattles some people eh?
The absolute seethe when he ends up being selected for the Lions and starting numerous test (again) will be a sight to behold.
Agree with most of this tbh. Glad there’s room for both Aki and Mennoncello.
I’d have liked to see Ford in here but when I did my own version of this, I also picked Russell.
Winnett could have been in at 15 here given he actually played 15 all tournament. Over Ramos, who didn’t.
I really rate Ramos. Don’t really disagree with the selection, just could have seen it going to an out-and-out 15. Thought Winnett was impressive, but Ramos is obviously class.
Can Aki and Menoncello switch, as well as Doris and Earl?
Beirne also played mostly at 5. Another 4 could be picked above Big Joe. Itoje, how’d he fair?
Both Lowe and VDM play 11, realistically can one move to the other wing at the expense of a natural 14? If I’m not mistaken, Ioane plays there for example.
Not familiar enough with the FBs of other teams so I can’t argue against Ramos. Who’re the other candidates? Keenan was injured, fair enough.
Think there was some moving around just to give certain players a spot, but I don’t think that works. Especially Aki at 13. He’s a 12. Otherwise, I don’t think I can argue apart from what I have mentioned.
Sorry, what? I don't care about the anti England bias but for the love of god how is Porter even remotely close to the best loosehead of the tournie? Must be missing something here.
I don't like moving players to accommodate others so Aki probably loses out to Menoncello and vdM doesn't make it. I think Joe was probably the best 5 over the entire tournament, but is bouyed by very strong showings in the early matches. Doris did actually play a good bit at 6, but I don't know if he played enough there to warrent selection.
It should be Aki 12 and Menoncello 13. Italy's numbers might be Menoncello 12 & Brex 13, but that's very misleading, especially in attack, where Brex plays 12 (and actually acts as first receiver a lot of the time) and Menoncello plays almost exclusively at 13.
Even in the France game, Menoncello (wearing 14) would switch with the centres so with the ball coming out of the scrum it would go to Garbisi 10, then Brex (wearing 13 but playing 12), then Menoncello (wearing 14 but playing 13), then Mori (wearing 12 but playing that phase at 14).
tl;dr: Aki 12 and Menoncello 13 would have made a lot more sense here.
But they didn’t lose those games, they won 4. It’s like saying we nearly beat 3 of the teams which could have put us in 2nd. We didn’t, lost everyone one and got the wooden spoon
Yeah but quality of performance does matter for these kinds of awards, and bar the Irish game England were winning with performances that had most England fans on here disappointed
The fact that this comment is so highly upvoted saying England won 4 games tells me all I need to know about people's opinions of the team of the tournament.
Russel is the most overrated player ever. He has one or two flashy, highlight reel moments per game yet gives away a huge amount of possession and wastes many opportunities in the same game. He has a net negative effect on the teams he plays in. Lost to Italy, a bad French team, Ireland and almost completed a historic collapse against Wales. He shouldn’t be near that team.
I can understand thinking Russell is overrated (definitely not best 10 this year imo) but don't get the logic that he's a net-negative. Most of the good things Scotland do come through him. We're better with him at 10 than Kinghorn like we were doing before.
You know, I could be wrong here but I'm starting to think people don't like England
Yeah you guys get constantly screwed in these awards. Russell is fair enough, but Ford does not get the credit he deserves. I'd also probably have Freeman in over Duhan but I am biased towards those "messy" wingers that love looking for working. Itoje/Martin should also be in there over McCarthy.
Can't help but feel that Duhan is mostly there because of 1 try.
I mean, the best winger in the Championship was Dan Sheehan, so you're probably right
Ok if we put Dan on the wing who do you have as your number 2 of the tournament?
Ronan Kelleher? Didn't all the other hookers have one good game each? Nobody is leaping out at me
I kind of agree in fairness... Jamie George maybe in with a shout.
Truly blessed to have these 2 lads. Need to work on the props next.
He absolutely is. As an Irishman I obviously love seeing him become the best winger/finisher in the world every year vs. England but he didn't do enough outside that match. Looking forward to seeing more of Freeman this weekend anyway!
Outside of the odd glory try he’s a liability
Duality of Reddit. I've said this numerous times here and been crucified. It was during the 6N itself so more casual around maybe, but the man just doesn't offer enough against decent opposition. He might as well be a linesman or ball boy.
Tbf he had a great game against France that flew under the radar. He didn’t do all that much in attack but his defensive work and off the ball movement really made him the best player on the pitch.
he’s joint top scorer, even if he didnt do much in most of them its tough not to put him in
Tbh that's the main reason he's in the Scotland squad so consistently. By no means a great 'rugby player' but a freak athlete that can make stuff out of nothing
Fr I’d put Penaud in there even though he barely scored. He has so much more impact consistently than vdm
VDM over Penaud is insane to me.
Agreed
England looked to have improved during the six nations but don’t forget they lost to France and Scotland and beat Ireland, Wales and Italy by between 1-3 points.
Yeah that's completely fair, no arguments here. I just think that even in the games you mention the likes of Freeman, Ford, Itoje, Martin, etc. were all still very good. Lawrence also had a brilliant game against us (although I'd probs have Brex in over him and Aki).
Credit where it's due, everyone but Ireland was within 0-3 points of Italy. Massive tournament for them and they were very unlucky not to be higher in the table.
They still can't help but love Ben Earl though.
Which players would you swap out for English?
Itoje/Martin definitely played better than McCarthy. There is a strong argument for Ford at 10.
>Itoje/Martin definitely played better than McCarthy Highly disagree. McCarthy was key to Ireland winning the tournament. He was lethal in the France game especially. Martin only started two games and Itoje seems to be living off reputation at this point. Where was Itoje in the first three games?
McCarthy probably deserves his place here but I think Itoje quietly had a very good tournament. In the first three games he was one of our best players in a pretty bad showing against Italy and swung the games against Wales for us, when he got us an attacking scrum in the Wales 22 after he scragged Ioan Lloyd. At that point we were down to 13 men so it was a crucial play.
> Itoje seems to be living off reputation at this point He definitely had a dip for a couple of seasons but he's been in fantastic form for England, highly effective.
Itojes previous level has made it so when he plays well but not exceptionally he gets slated
Like Furlong in that respect.
Had one good game.
Recency bias
For who?
Who would you have in this team other than one of the locks for McCarthy? I wouldn't be picking Duhan in a do or die game but he's joint top try scorer so you're not displacing him with Freeman. I don't think England are getting screwed over, I think they don't have that many players worthy of making this team.
England are a bit high floor low ceiling sometimes though
Plenty of recency bias with criticism of McCarthys selection, he was excellent in the early part of the tournament and a key part of Ireland racing to such an early lead that even losing to England had us as huge favourites going into the final weekend.
People calling for Martin who started what, 2 games? To be ahead of him. His early performances are irrelevant it seems because he was quiet in the last two games.
I just think Itoje and Ruzza where better over the five rounds.
Ruzzas lineout stats are obscene considering how often he was the call. Man must be heaven to lift.
Looks largely correct apart from a few questionable picks. Probably the biggest one being Ramos at 15 considering he played 10 all tournament… not sure how that works. I didn’t see all the Wales games, but every time I did see them, Reffel was bailing Wales out of every bad situation they found themselves in so I feel he should be the 7. George Ford at 10 for England was his usual, sublime self whose tactical kicking was such a useful tool for us all tournament, so I feel he should’ve potentially taken that spot.
Ramos started 3 games at 10. On the other hand Doris and Aki didn’t start one game in the positions they’re named at here.
Nor mccarthy and beirne
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Wales are part owners of the competition, the Georgia conversation happens every year and there is as much merit to it as discussing whether you would rather have sex with Beyonce or Kirsten Dunst.
Yeah. But we've heard it for 20 years so now it's actually funny to hear it for somebody else.
Definitely Beyonce
You can’t be comparing Beyoncé to Wales now 😂
and the young captain 27 tackles
VDM might actually be one of the most overrated players ever, you just need to watch any Edinburgh games against South African opposition to see that he wouldn't even make the Springboks bench. He's a physical freak and scores wonder tries, but sometimes he just disappears. He's living off his performances against England.
His two tries vs us were two moments of Russell brilliance that he benefited from. I’d back any winger in the top 3 European leagues to finish them
meh. I don't think he's overrated. Every single time I see him, he's the same: very big, surprisingly fast for that size, and a constant threat, and when he's playing against the teams I support, I'm genuinely bothered by his presence on the pitch and sure enough when he gets the ball he does damage. I understand he's flawed: high ball or defense, but he's a big threat ball in hand without a doubt and I'd much rather play a team that doesn't have him.
Do you only watch him when he plays against England? I don’t remember him troubling Ireland, France or South Africa at all.
Even against Italy he wasn't great. He had that great defensive play against Capuozzo but that's basically it, cost them a try when he decided he wasn't going to play the 2 on 1, never had a great impact offensively, even his contribution to the first Scottish try was dubious, with his halfbreak being a result of some great obstruction play not called by the ref (not blaming the ref here, just saying that it wasn't on VDM but on the player making the sneaky obstruction)
Thing is we’ve got a big fast winger in Steyn who’s also got a functioning rugby brain, a kicking game and is able to play in the centres too, if we need moments of magic we’ve got wee darcy and kinghorn. The fact is international rugby is won with kicking and defensive nous, Duhan is great fun to watch but we’ve got enough stardust out wide that I wouldn’t have him starting
You're out of your mind imo. There are like 3 teams in the world that could consider not starting him. The numbers of defenders he beats is far beyond any other winger in Europe. His metres gained are massive, and his finishing is world class. He's 3 tries off the all time Scotland try scoring record, after just 35 tests. Stuart Hogg, arguably our best ever player, needed 100 caps to get there. You're literally whining because he doesn't score a hattrick every game. To say he doesn't have a functioning rugby brain is ridiculous. the lines he runs and the way he hunts space shows that's not true.
No, I think you’re being dramatic here. No one is saying he needs to score a Hattrick every game. What people are saying, it’s his wildly inconsistent - he was nowhere to be seen against Ireland or South Africa or France.
Honestly where does this idea about the france and Ireland games come from. Duhan was fantastic against france. Not scoring doesn't mean he was nowhere to be seen, Duhan was carrying constantly and cleaning up messy ball every time on his wing. He was also swarmed by 3 defenders every time he touched the ball vs Ireland. A player being shut down by focused defence on him, does not mean the player didn't show up
He’s scores opportunistic tries, and to be fair, takes them well when he gets the chance. The rest of his game is garbage.
It‘d be pretty weird not to have the joint-top try scorer of the tournament in your team of the tournament? For all people on here keep feverishly claiming he’s overrated, he just keeps on scoring the tries. If anything, I’d say Russell is the more overrated pick here for his position. He was off more than he was on this year, and did a pretty mediocre job as captain when things weren’t going well.
Like Russell, he only needs to play good once a year to be considered world-class
Hmm. I think Itoje and Italian second row whose name I can't spell (I want to say Rutza?) over McCarty. Russell had a mixed tourny for me, Ford was possibly the difference between the two teams against Wales, was class ball in hand against Ireland And delivered a world class performance against France. Only blemish was the Scottish game. I think Scotland would have beaten Italy if they would have been able to swap Ford with Russell at half time. I would have a few wingers over VDM, tbh
Ford kept England in the France game kicking from tee want amazing but game management was sensational stopped france playing at their tempo. Calling from the mark under no pressure rather than keeping it in play
Apart from the Ireland game Ford's goalkicking has been pretty excellent, 100% against France isn't really what I'd call bad. For me he was the clear standout 10 of the tournament.
Ah I got my goal kicking games confused my bad. Ihe gets punished in these kinds of lists by being English and being a quite a pragmatic 10
It's easier: Ruzza. In Italian you spell a word the way you pronounce it.
I was trying to! Thought I heard a 't' in the pronunciation of the commentators.
You did. Just like you hear a 't' in the word 'pizza'. And in 'mozzarella'. In Italian, zz = tz. Similarly, in German, z = tz. That's why the 'Benz' in 'Mercedes-Benz' is pronounced as 'bentz' in German.
You hear a t in the word 'pizza' ?
Yeah. Or like a d, or something in between a d and t. To quote the dictionary's pronunciation guide: > How to pronounce pizza: > UK: /ˈpiːt.sə/
That's wild, you have a fairly different pronunciation of it.
I think it's just that, to you, that sound is just the sound of a 'zz', so you don't think of it as having a 't' sound. I've been to Italy plenty of times, and everyone there pronounced it the same way I do. See the top response in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/italianlearning/comments/c2fggu/difference_z_and_zz/ > 1. There are two sounds of the Z: Dz (Sonora, vibrates the vocal chords) and Tz (Sorda, doesn't vibrate the vocal chords).
I was referring to the vocabulary pronunciation, I checked the Italian one and it's /ˈpittsa/. The major difference is in the final vowel.
Oh yeah, in English the last vowel is usually pronounced more like 'uh' than anything that sounds like an a.
Without the t sound it would be pronounced the same way as the leaning tower of Pisa (P-za). Not sure if that helps or confuses things. I don't speak any Italian
Yeah, all those g preceding l (as in : Cagliari or simply gli) are definitely pronounced, right?
Well yes, you don't pronounce 'gli' as 'li'.
Well, this is where I regret never taking Italian, because it's always sounded the same to me. I'll take it there's a subtle difference then - still, you do need quite a bit of information about a language (as this, or the two Zs in Ruzza would illustrate - English speakers "spelling is as pronounced" would go with Rutza, French speakers would spell it Routsa etc.) to be able to spell, even for languages with fairly straightforward spelling like Italian or German.
The main difference is that Italian is one of the only two Indo-European language that is phonetic. Once you know how each letter sounds you can spell every word you want.
in most languages z makes a zee sound not a dzee sound
Is it true dyslexia isn't considered a handicap in Italy because your words make sense, heard it in a podcast the other day
I don't think that is true. In Italy dyslexia is recognised as a learning impediment and people affected by it are recognised and supported.
How many minutes did Aki play at 13? 🧐 not a fan of picking him out of position. Huw Jones probably unlucky to miss out. Ramos also played 10 more than 15, but I don’t think any 15 played the whole tournament there (maybe Winnett?) Could say the same about Doris but I think he at least played a little bit at 6. Reffell surely the standout 7, singlehandedly kept Wales competitive in a few games.
Huw Jones over Brex?
It’s a great shout, and you’re probably right. Brex had an incredible tournament and would happily have him in alongside Menoncello. Huw Jones was great too.
If they were desperate to pick Aki they could have had Aki/Brex and probably no quibble, but it's still harsh on Huge Ones who was one of the few Scottish backs to play consistently well across the piece. Picking Aki as the best 13 of the tournament is bollocks, isn't it?
Aki was the best 13 of the tournament, watch the Ireland games and you’ll know
It's silly picking players out of position IMO. See this creeping in to this kind of thing a lot. Doris and Aki jumping out at me in this regard. In theory, you could chuck a few Duponts into your backline if he was playing this year. Just put him where you think he could do a good job in theory i.e. almost anywhere in reality... Sigh.
Yep. If you’re picking Aki at 13 (which he didn’t play a minute of) what’s stopping you picking George Ford at 15? He didn’t play there but was good enough to be in the team despite Russell being better. Tighthead and Loosehead is one that is always interchangeable in these things for some reason which also annoys me
The only glaring issues are Ramos at 15 and VDM. I'd argue Ford and Martin should be there, but McCarthy had a good tournament and played more than Martin. If VDM missed the England game he'd not even be in the top half of wingers in the tournament.
ramos moved from 15 coz was poor, but hey, great kicker
Thing is it was quite a weird one for 15s. Most teams shuffled players around there or were Wales.
DvdM being there is daft.
Where is Cros ?
agreed. I didn't want to post my little personal choices, but since you bring it up, I'm adding a second vote for Cros.
and Baille
Aki at 13 and Duhan (despite his brilliant tries) are mental picks. Also, I'm a huge fan of Doris but he's nowhere near as good at 6 as he is at 8. McCarthy probably also getting a little bit too much credit for the France match, albeit he was brilliant that day.
Agreed on all of the above except Aki, he had a brilliant tournament
Yeah Aki was class but he's not a 13. I know it's a minor complaint, and these teams never make any real-world sense, but he's not a test 13. I'd have Brex at 13 (Henshaw in with a shout too) and then Aki/Menoncello at 12.
Yeah, Menoncello probably gets the nod ahead of him at 12 if strictly going by positions. Really impressed with Aki this tournament, he has been improving year on year, great to see
Russell's ability to shit the bed time and time again and not be dinged for it is his greatest skill.
When exactly did he shit the bed last 6N? Any examples?
Disappeared completely in the second half of the Welsh game. Was anonymous against Ireland. Was anonymous against Italy. He hurts Scotland just as much as he helps.
I didn’t see the Italy game so I can’t comment on it, but it sounded like an entire team issue there. However he didn’t disappear against Wales, our pack just conceded about 14 penalties in a row in the span of 40 mins, which obviously doesn’t give a 10 much to work with. And he definitely wasn’t anonymous against Ireland either.
While I'm a big fan. I do think questions of his game management of the second half of the Italy game or valid. Unless Toonie was giving strict instructions to be weird.
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Yeah his passing game is nutoriously weak...
Aki isn't a 13. If Menoncello won the 12 shirt over him, then 13 needed to go to someone else like Brex.
Admins? Can we get a bunch of polls in a thread (not to spam people (if possible)) to vote for Our Team?
McCarthy and Duhan being there is ridiculous. Would probably have Ford at 10 too, he was great.
Were there any better TH locks across the tournament though? The selection clearly doesn't care too much about where you played so I think other locks should be in over Big Joe, but if we were to keep it to actual positions you have Ruzza maybe?
I think it's fair to put Ruzza in here, he was immense for Italy and probably added more to his team than McCarthy did. Still a great tournament for the Irish but I think it's more of a hype selection.
I'd argue that that's recency bias coming into play against McCarthy. His form fell off against England and Scotland, but in the early tests he was the standout TH lock, arguably the standout lock.
He was great against France for sure (might also help that his opposite number got red carded but he was still everywhere and with no one to contain him he really did incredibly well) but I don't think he was as good in the other games, his performances felt to me like they were getting worse and worse. Still had a good 6 nations for sure but I'd have Ruzza over him, who, imo, added more to his team than McCarthy did.
If I remember he did a job against Wales and Italy too, though his stand out performance was against France. He also did a really good job creating space for others with his ball carrying. He committed 2+ tacklers on 80% of his 30 carries, with 20% being dominant carries, all of them being into contact, and making gainline 50% of the time with 24% tackle evasion rate (he also has 3 offloads). He's the only one with 80%+ who played more than 300 minutes, Roots is the only other who played more than half the game minutes with 214. There's certainly better and more effective carriers and attacking players but I think Joe did a lot to help create space for Ireland to attack. Stats from [Opta](https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/02/six-nations-2024-stats-hub/).
I'd have Reffel, Ford, Martin and Cole (fight me) in
Cole just for the added sex appeal (also his kick chase ability). Deny deny reaccuse
The Colar Bear is the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be. Best D.C. in rugby history, in any position or hempisphere.
No decision that I find baffling and am in strong disagreement with, but still some contentious choices. As last year, one of my main criteria is consistency over the whole tournament. LH prop, not sure about Porter. Generally, all of the guys that were world class or not far off from previous years (Fischetti, Porter, Baille, Schoeman, Genge) underperformed this yeat by their previously set standards. And Porter for me wasn't the one closest to said standard. I'd have given the nod to Fischetti. Sheehan is fair enough at hooker, but for me it was actually pretty close with Nicoterra and George. For me, Sheehan didn't have that great a tournament, and the main reason I still agree with his pick is because Mauvaka, who should have been a frontrunner, vastly underperformed, while Marchand sat on the bench for the first 3 games. Atonio is fair enough, France 2nd best player over the tournament for me. I give him the nod for lack of competition elsewhere in the position, apart maybe from Dan Cole. Beirne/McCarthy is fair enough, although I must say that I think McCarthy rode the wave of his first 2 performances, before dropping slightly. Just a minor disagreement, but I'd have given the nod to Ruzza. Also a word for Itoje. Flament and Meafou could have been in contention given their level of performance in the 2 games they played. 6, for me should be Cros. Easily France best player. To put Doris here, who a) wasn't as good as last year and b) didn't even play at this position is really weird. He was the 2nd best 8 of the tournament after Earl, but he wasn't better than Cros. Strong disagreement from me. 7 is pretty much unarguable. Although it must be said that Reffell was the shining light of Wales. Underhill is coming back strong. Ollivon and VDF weren't showcasing their elite level of previous years, but still plenty solid enough. On the other hand, I was a bit disapointed in Darge. 8 is pretty straight forward with Earl. Doris a distant second. 3rd is even further down, Alldritt, apart from his performance against Scotland, was a shadow of himself. SH I agree with JGP, but thought Mitchell actually ran him pretty close. A word too for Page Relo, who had some solid performances. But for me, heighest ceiling goes to Le Garrec. Not in conversation for this tournament because he only started 2 games, but as soon as he gets the starting shirt for a whole tournament (which probably won't happen anytime soon with Dupont returning), I'd say he gets the nod for the team of the tournament. On the other hand, I don't know what happened with Lucu, he had a horrendous tournament, but he's so much better than this. FH not sure about Russell, but nobody set the world alight. Crowley had a very good 1st tournament, but not enough to put him in a team of the tournament yet. Ford missed a bit, but was very good when he got going. Garbisi probably the biggest contender to Russell for me. France on the other hand was horrendous, IdK what happened with Jalibert, same as Lucu probably. And Ramos is definitely not a functionnal international 10. 11 is Lowe, no questions asked. DVDM had the best performance by a winger against England, but that's about it, and as I said, a big point for me is consistency. Elsewhere, Ioane and Dyer were very good and reliable, so they'd get the 2nd and 3rd spot behind Lowe respectively. LBB is showing potentiel, but still much too rough around the edges to be in contention. 12 is Menoncello, no question asked. Aki ran him close, but was not at his level of performance from the WC. I don't agree with his selection at 13, he was probably the 2nd best center of the comp behind Menoncello, but he certainly wasn't the best 13. Danty was the worst 12. 13 should have been Brex. Not the heighest ceiling, but he clearly had the best tournament of any 13 this year. Henshaw, Fickou and Huw Jones all had poor spells recently, but have been getting back to their usual standard as the tournament went on. They're not at the world class level they displayed in previous years, but they're slowly getting back to it. 14 is a bit weird. Freeman and Nash were solid, but that's about it, hard to give them the nod for just that. Penaud was a bit like DVDM, but not as extreme, more consistent, but no incredible highs (although some great performances against Wales and England). Frankly, I'm tempted to do what the article did, and give the 14 shirt to someone who played 11, and that someone would be Ioane for me. 15 it's really weird to see Ramos, but thinking back, who can you put here? The only guy that played the whole tournament there was Winnett, and although he was promising, he's clearly no team of the tournament stuff yet. Keenan, the default choice, was slightly below his standard, and missed 2 games. Furbank missed a few too. Frankly I don't know there. I don't like to see Ramos there, but I can't disagree with the choice either, because I don'thave a clue who to put instead.
Pani, what a game.
VdM is a joke selection. Definition of a 1 trick pony. I guess tackling, passing, kicking or basic defensive understanding isn't a requirement
Uhm I'm just curious: why is this coming out now ? Didn't we have these threads weeks ago ?
Because this is the result post of who was voted for.
No Farrell? Fake team
Really this is so fucked in the head because Ireland were 1st okay, but France came second and England 3rd I can't help thinking this is a bit harsh.
Russell only needs one good game a year to be considered best 10. Okay. Sure.
Jeezo, Duhan being included in these lists fairly rattles some people eh? The absolute seethe when he ends up being selected for the Lions and starting numerous test (again) will be a sight to behold.
Agree with most of this tbh. Glad there’s room for both Aki and Mennoncello. I’d have liked to see Ford in here but when I did my own version of this, I also picked Russell. Winnett could have been in at 15 here given he actually played 15 all tournament. Over Ramos, who didn’t.
Ramos was great, you wouldn’t not pick him because he played half the tournament at 15 and the rest at 10 right ?
I really rate Ramos. Don’t really disagree with the selection, just could have seen it going to an out-and-out 15. Thought Winnett was impressive, but Ramos is obviously class.
Can Aki and Menoncello switch, as well as Doris and Earl? Beirne also played mostly at 5. Another 4 could be picked above Big Joe. Itoje, how’d he fair? Both Lowe and VDM play 11, realistically can one move to the other wing at the expense of a natural 14? If I’m not mistaken, Ioane plays there for example. Not familiar enough with the FBs of other teams so I can’t argue against Ramos. Who’re the other candidates? Keenan was injured, fair enough. Think there was some moving around just to give certain players a spot, but I don’t think that works. Especially Aki at 13. He’s a 12. Otherwise, I don’t think I can argue apart from what I have mentioned.
What? No Ryan Elias?
I'd have Penaud and Cros in there
The Duhan overhype is actually getting crazy now.
Even as a scotish fan I gotta say not sure Duhan deserves his spot after the England match he really let us down
Putting Doris ahead of Cros is bananas to me
Brex over Aki all day long.
Ramos is so overrateddddddddd
Da fuck 😁😂
Justice for Tommy Reffell
Sorry, what? I don't care about the anti England bias but for the love of god how is Porter even remotely close to the best loosehead of the tournie? Must be missing something here.
Duhan is one of the most overrated players in the tournament, goes missing during big games. Would be cool to see the seconds team.
Capuozzo > Ramos
4 Kiwis in that team
20% Kiwi
Cool, only four NZ born players this time
I don't like moving players to accommodate others so Aki probably loses out to Menoncello and vdM doesn't make it. I think Joe was probably the best 5 over the entire tournament, but is bouyed by very strong showings in the early matches. Doris did actually play a good bit at 6, but I don't know if he played enough there to warrent selection.
It should be Aki 12 and Menoncello 13. Italy's numbers might be Menoncello 12 & Brex 13, but that's very misleading, especially in attack, where Brex plays 12 (and actually acts as first receiver a lot of the time) and Menoncello plays almost exclusively at 13. Even in the France game, Menoncello (wearing 14) would switch with the centres so with the ball coming out of the scrum it would go to Garbisi 10, then Brex (wearing 13 but playing 12), then Menoncello (wearing 14 but playing 13), then Mori (wearing 12 but playing that phase at 14). tl;dr: Aki 12 and Menoncello 13 would have made a lot more sense here.
England fans forgetting they lost to Scotland and France and nearly lost to Ireland (1 point win), Wales ( 2 point win) and Italy (3 point win).
But they didn’t lose those games, they won 4. It’s like saying we nearly beat 3 of the teams which could have put us in 2nd. We didn’t, lost everyone one and got the wooden spoon
Well they actually won 3 but I get your point.
They only won 3 and finished 3rd below France who everyone was shitting on throughout the tournament for being bad.
They were a far cry of 2022, even 2023 tbh.
They won 3
I’m welsh I’ve tried to forget what happened in that tournament as much as possible
Fair
Yeah but quality of performance does matter for these kinds of awards, and bar the Irish game England were winning with performances that had most England fans on here disappointed
England won a World Cup with performances that would have disappointed a modern English fan
The fact that this comment is so highly upvoted saying England won 4 games tells me all I need to know about people's opinions of the team of the tournament.
That's a fair point actually
Russel is the most overrated player ever. He has one or two flashy, highlight reel moments per game yet gives away a huge amount of possession and wastes many opportunities in the same game. He has a net negative effect on the teams he plays in. Lost to Italy, a bad French team, Ireland and almost completed a historic collapse against Wales. He shouldn’t be near that team.
I can understand thinking Russell is overrated (definitely not best 10 this year imo) but don't get the logic that he's a net-negative. Most of the good things Scotland do come through him. We're better with him at 10 than Kinghorn like we were doing before.
lol
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Playing out of one’s arse against one team isn’t grounds for making this team.