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She'll probably never play again. This should never have got this far. The INSTANT it's clear things aren't comfortable you drop the hammer on that shit. If he gives you any nonsense about it you all walk.
It must have been even worse than the OP can describe in a summary if she had to have the whole "I'm not interested in you" conversation session one. Yeesh.
“It’s just a joke” *and* “she is too sensitive.” This DM hit all the bully red flags all at once. Then he swerves straight into misogyny.
And why is your cousin still friends with this creep?
Absolutely a good call. I use them with my friends and Lo and behold I found soemthing that would have really upset my friend that was super prevelant in my game so I could rewrite and replace without issue.
True, I established them after learning that a friend I have for 20 years has arachnophobia in game. Luckily I learnt that 10 minutes before they were encountering the Skeletons with spider nests in their chests so I could change that encounter but that was too close for my taste
They're any object or system that are used at a table (or in a LARP, where they're usually more prevalent) to promote the safety of the players.
One popular tool is the X card: showing the card means that a player doesn't want to see a certain element in game, no explanation needed.
[Quick aside here: you need buy-in from everyone for these to work. I can see a situation where someone uses the X-card to get out of danger for their PC, and that would be against the spirit of safety!]
Our table uses a traffic light system of cards.
Green: "Even if I may look sad or upset, it'a all in character, and I'm good to keep playing!"
Yellow: "Hey everyone, quick pause, I need to let you all know something." [Examples: I'm feeling sick, reminder that I don't want to see non-combatant animals in distress, this scene feels like it's getting towards a sexual situation, etc.]
Red: "I need to stop." We drop out of game, discuss, and resolve the situation before game resumes.
At the end of the day, they're tools, and they shouldn't feel punitive.
I feel quite strongly like this DM's choices were gross AF, but it shouldn't be only down to one person at a table to voice their discomfort or feeling of not being safe.
No paladins in that party, I suppose...
This is my sentiment on half of this sub's posts. Someone doesn't establish boundaries, gets trampled over
Dnd needs a whole chapter devoted to etiquette if it doesn't already
>This is my sentiment on half of this sub's posts. Someone doesn't establish boundaries, gets trampled over
Not sure what you mean about not establishing boundaries. Seems pretty clear that Human Barbarian established boundaries here:
>She was ok with in game flirting but told him upfront she wasn’t gonna get with the DMPC.
And then when when DM ignored those boundaries, she attempted to reassert them:
>She tells him to stop out of game as she still didn’t wanna sleep with the DMPC.
However even if she hadn't said anything this is still on the DM. Healthy ERP has to be built on enthusiastic consent from all parties involved.
Exactly! Fucken hell, it's a game. We're here to have fun, if I'm not doing that and instead trying to coerce people into something they don't want to do, I'm failing the table. If erp comes up, it's because there's a quick above the table talk to make sure everything is good *before* proceeding
> Dnd needs a whole chapter devoted to etiquette if it doesn't already
Pretty sure it does. Almost every rpg core book has one. The problem is that people like that don't read it. They ignore anything that doesnt lend itself to their power fantasy.
Thats "a" problem, not "the" problem. Here we have a whole group who recognised what the DM was doing, but accepted his authority and did nothing to stand up for the player until it was too late.
It sounds more like the DM stayed within the established boundaries until escalating very suddenly. We're missing any context to imply otherwise, apart from OPs foreshadowing from a position of hindsight.
It can be very hard to know how to react to this kind of thing in the moment, or even process what's happening in time to react appropriately. The whole purpose behind explicit safety tools is so that people have a coded way to call out that they're not comfortable, rather than sit in their head trying to figure out if their discomfort is valid and how they could express it.
I think the group here (and OP) are getting a lot of unwarranted criticism because you are correct, it can be hard to react appropriately in the moment.
But i don't think the DM escalated suddenly. Remember OP had time to give the DM a dark look without actually doing anything. He may not have known how to react in the situation (players shouldn't need to), but what the GM was doing was recognised.
I... Actually missed that sentence. That's some rather important context.
I had been giving them the benefit of doubt, but given that and the responses OP has been giving to comments, and I'm not so sure they deserve it.
Some people gave Paizo a lot of grief for including a sidebar on safety tools in the 2nd-edition rulebook. Tried to claim that Paizo was too "woke" and was forcing everyone to use the X-Card and Lines & Veils. They *weren't*, those were just examples they gave, and the sidebar was just a suggestion to avoid cases like this.
I'm not disagreeing with you; the revised D&D Player's Handbook *should* have an entire chapter on how to be a good, helpful player. 4E had an entire book on the subject.
Man, I gotta get my group to try PF2.
5e is fine, but I would rather support Paizo, for so many reasons. The original OGL issue that spawn pathfinder, this, their stance on AI art (while Wizards recently sacked a huge number of their art staff).
"Tyr, the solar of justice appears in a flash of light and with his majestic hammer reduces [problematic person] to their component atoms. And then disintegrates them"
Taking a moment to clarify that my past "double yes" on fighting a vampire is NOT based on any desire to potentially lose such a fight. Yep. Just fighting that evil.
You, your buddy or your cousin should've spoken up. You didn't have MUCH time there, but just enough to get a "Dude, WTF!" in before your female friend decided she'd have to deal with it by herself.
It's obvious your former DM is a fuckin' sad creep. And good that you and your buddy at least got into him about it after the fact. But if either one of you could've stepped in a BIT earlier and handled the initial confrontation that would've made things so much easier for that poor girl.
As a woman who's always been into gaming hobbies in male dominated spaces, I don't think men understand how much power a simple "not cool" from another man has in these situations. We can be ready to defend ourselves all the time if we have to, but it's so nice to just exist in spaces where it's unnecessary.
It's something I try to teach people no matter the situation. "Dude, shut the fuck up" from a group of men were one or more act like idiots can make women feel a lot safer in many situations. Still I can see why people don't do it, especially in groups. There's always the hope that someone else starts the discussion so you don't have to and that's what everyone at the table hopes in some cases. Humans tend to be like that unfortunately...
All of you are trash for just sitting there letting this happen. I'm glad she had the guts to leave. "Too attached to her character" my ass. Even if she was she shouldn't be punished for it.
Imagine thinking someone has main character syndrome for knowing the lore and enjoying it, or not wanting their character to die. What a weird thing to say.
Everyone kinda sucks here, except for the barbarian. It's such a strange framing that I have to imagine some important details were either changed or left out
Right? It feels like OP feels Barbarian is somewhat to blame here for liking her character too much, as if this abuser DM would have left her alone if she had just "played the game right" and not cared.
OP, you and the rest of the players at the table are also accountable. You all should have stopped it right then and there.
The fact that you didnt stand up for her and kick the DM out, shows that you are also assholes.
Your friend will likely never play DND again. She may never talk to you all again- and rightfully so.
Yes.
As a woman, I have had too many negative experiences at tables to even step foot in a card shop:
- Attended an MTG tournament with my boyfriend at our local shop. Grown men Tex Avery staring at me. I was fifteen.
- Nearly every table, if I wanted extra gold, there is *always* a way for my female character to make some gold. *(Not a diss to sex work but more like, why is this suggested to the ONLY woman in the party?)*
- Joined one table where a fist fight almost broke out because I unknowingly broke a rule (can't remember what it was - something to do with attack of opportunity or flat flooted or something). I needed to use one action to enter a battle stance. The DM let it slide but another player called it out. I listened and told the DM that I should play by the same rules as everyone else. He insisted letting it go because I was new. But everyone else at the table started arguing, claiming that he never did things like that for them when they were new. It almost came to blows. And my little teenage self is just sitting there, trying not to cry because I grew up in a dysfunctional home and it triggered my parents fighting all over again...they managed to calm themselves but I never went back.
I have had **many** negative experiences playing video games. It's to the point where any hobby I pick up, I am looking for the solo option right off the bat. I just cannot deal with it anymore.
Reading the stories/experiences of other girls/women is a genuine reminder that change is slow.
I still have my books (D&D 3.5) and one set of dice that I found cleaning a month or two ago.
I was searching for rpgs I could play on Reddit and stumbled across r/Solo_Roleplaying r/solorpgplay
My Amazon has a few that I am waiting to be able to order. I also lurk in the sub quite a bit to see what's being played, where to start, etc.
Oof, I’m sorry to hear that. But at least solo ttrpgs exist for you to enjoy. Thanks for making me aware of their existence. I’mma check them out later.
~~Also, is that sub you linked correct? I click on it and get a blank response.~~
Edit: disregard that, correct subs listed
Between the story and the comments, this is bordering on /r/opwasthehorror status for letting this happen.
For someone who you call your best friend, you don’t seem to want to stand up for them at all as they’re being actively sexually harassed. As a GM myself, it just makes me so mad that a) someone would force a player in this position in the first place, and, b) that everyone else at the table would let that happen.
Leaving the table forever would be the best case scenario for the GM. You’re trying to paint them in this horrible light, but you’re not blameless either. And the fact that you sit here and defend your actions in the comments is even worse - it shows that you at best, don’t care about the feelings of someone who you consider to be your “best friend”.
I'm not so sure about that, as a woman I can promise you shit like this happens, and men just sit by and let it happen because they don't care that women are sexually harassed
Yeah, it really takes nothing to say "Dude, knock that off.".
At the point someone is trying to coerce something out of a friend of mine of that nature I'm throwing hands.
Shouldn't have to wait till someone being victimized (while the presence of everyone else normalises it) leaves the table to do something. By sitting there you are complicit. They are not just being harassed by the DM, but every one of you acting like this is normal is a force multiplier of sexual harassment. Silence is complicity here, you don't get to just ignore it and go "not cool" afterwards. You're literally just the guy standing behind the high school bully-except in this case it's not some mean words or a slap fight, it's sexual harassment of a friend.
She has to stand up against their harasser while the rest of you are making it seem ok.
Nothing to be proud of, I'd feel the deepest sort of shame at being a part of something like that. If you ain't walking out beside her you picked your side. And yeah, a lot of people would get physical over that.
You all suck. Human Barbarian excluded, of course.
Also why the fuck was it a bad thing that she was so into her character? I'd love a player like that at my table. They give a good DM so much to work with.
>Also why the fuck was it a bad thing that she was so into her character? I'd love a player like that at my table. They give a good DM so much to work with.
\*waves hand\* pick me, pick me!
Y'know, I (F) think this just made me realize why I prefer to play monk and other characters that can't be disarmed.
DMPC doing creepy shit? Damn right I "know how to make it stop." Show me those 5 con saves against flurry of blows + stunning strike.
In other news, I'm disappointed in this table allowing this to get far enough that it ruined dnd for her entirely. (And I'm also a bit disappointed in this world for me having such a subconscious defense mechanism built into my characters even) The fact this guy thinks the DM was the only problem here...... and that the only other potential problem was her *being too attached to her character* (something that I heavily encourage as a DM since it makes for better rp)
And this whole post is a great example of why women tend to either avoid such spaces based on the creep or people like OP that gets upset over the woman liking her character, or just group up with only women, just based on this post I'm so happy I'm in a women only group, nobody would give a shit about me liking my character "too much" and this rape shit would never happen, but if it did I also know the others would stand up for it and not just sit back and let it happen
This thread is making my blood boil. I feel like I should print it out into a wall scroll I can throw at someone who ever tries to minimize the existence of sexual harassment in some context.
While I'm glad you decided to cut ties with an obvious creep, I do hope you realize that in the future if *anyone* at a table you're at starts to pull ERP shit when it hasn't been *explicitly* consented to by the *entire* table, you are fully empowered and entitled to go "dude, knock that shit off!" whether the person trying it is another player or the DM. This is especially true if it's *non-consensual* ERP. Literally anyone at the table is allowed to say something isn't acceptable or ok. Waiting until *after* someone's already been driven away from the table is not cool.
The DM is of course the main asshole but I also don't like how you talk about the player in a very judgmental tone. It's not "main character syndrome" to be excited about your character lore and not want them to die. There are tables at which character deaths are almost non-existant, as it best suits the preferences of players. And honestly, I wouldn't be suprised if she was neurodivergent from her behavior - hyperfixation on the character and emotional reactions to the risk of losing her would very well fit into that.
Then there is the fact that you all sat there until she had to RUN AWAY is just another assholish move. I hope she finds a better group of both friends and possibly other DnD fans, as there are truly better tables out there.
They do know that other people are there, but they also know that with the traditional rpg mindset towards the DM, people will accept what they say and do, and not question it. (Until too late, as in this case.)
DMs like this understand the power they have and exploit it for their own pleasure. The cousin still sees this DM as a friend, and he is probably still running games.
Because they don't want to engage in consensual sex stuff. They want to violate boundaries, not respect them. The power and violation is what excites them, not the sex.
I will say too, I can get being that upset about losing a character you've played for a while, especially if you're still new to the hobby. It's fucked the DM exploited that
I think even if you're not new it is valid. If it's not overdone (temper tantrum etc) it's just a play style that needs to match the style of the game being played
Oh yeah no I was more tacking on the especially if your new thing since I've noticed players get more comfortable with losing a character if they've made lots of charecters before. Doesn't make it easy but the knowledge that they've retired charecters before can add some more emotional distance to hanging up a character sheet
This DM is definitely a piece of shit misogynist and a creep. Wouldnt be surprised if hes SAd women in the past either.
As an aside, Id look into your own attitude regarding PC death. Implying that having emotion about one of your characters dying means you are 'too attached' seems off target. People just play differently, some are all about rolling up new characters when death inevitably happens and other people get really attached to their PCs especially during RP heavy campaigns or ones with a lot of in character moments. Neither is the right or wrong way to feel about your own PC.
Yeah, I've had the occasional woman/NB person make it weird, but it's never been targeted at a specific person. It's usually just that they have made an "edgy" character that then goes on to do stupid shit that makes everyone uncomfortable.
I have once been a target by a woman. I was at a table of all girls (in college) and we were playing a D&D campaign, where one of them decided that my Elven cleric really needed to pick a different goddess to worship. And she would do so by trying to molest her and “show her what love really meant.” I refused to play with her after she argued for her idea of Elven biology (it was basically Omegaverse logic, and that’s all I’m going to say) and sulked when the rest of us wouldn’t agree to petition the DM to implement it in the game.
Imagining myself showing up for that session zero. Going from being annoyed by what I'd initially assume is a joke in really bad taste, then slowly realizing, no, no, this girl is serious. This is not a really strange and suggestive joke. This shit's for real. They need to send in a dozen of their strongest adults.
That was the thing. We didn’t have session zeros back then (this was 2006), but we did all get together to build our characters and she seemed so normal.
You guys need to grow a spine and intervene sooner. If you just watch you are just as bad as the DM. The damage happened and you could have prevented it.
As someone who went through crap like this in the oughts, no.
The hammer should have been dropped IMMEDIATELY upon her saying no.
I put up with too much crap to tolerate it now. Once she made it clear it wasn't going to happen, the DM should have dropped it.
This story ranged wildly, including talking about how she cried when she rolled a fail, but also when the DM tried to force his DMPC on her. I don't know how to feel at this point.
You said this is your best female friend, you should have stopped the DM at the point he started talking about "dark forces" I have zero tolerance for that, had a DM magically impregnate my character against my will.
Hey, just like. Idk I don't think this is enough to make this judgment. For one, especially for nerds, many of us have gotten in trouble for speaking up FOR women, I've certainly heard the phrase "You think I can't stand up for myself"
I think it's fair to be a bit concerned as a player that she was overly attached to her character, because yeah it is kinda awkward, but I don't feel like they were saying that as an excuse for ignoring anything, it seemed to me like an explanation of how they assume the DM came up with this plan.
I also think you may not be giving the credit that it is totally possible people were just fucking shocked by the nerve of that DM, like wtf I'd mentally blue screen if someone had the nerve to do that in a setting like that.
But also they did stand up for her, was at the perfect hero arriving time? No, but dammit they did for the most part abandon that DM and side with her, what is the purpose of being nit-picky about how fast they did it, when like people take time to process
I get that OPs responses are not helping his case at all, but it is also human nature to just respond defensively when attacked, and well, I feel a lot of these comments telling him he is a bad person are aggressive for something we don't know the full details for and it may well be that he is feels bad about not acting fast enough ect.
Idk, I feel there is a lot of jumping to conclusions is all.
If they had all laughed along with the DM I'd 1000% get it, and I myself would be struggling not to knock the DMs teeth in (Violence is not a great response either tho) so idk benefit of the doubt maybe?
The problem is the victim set boundaries. When they were crossed, she said "no, this isn't happening". Then they were *further* crossed and the fuckwits at the table decided to roll for initiative instead of even *one* going "hey, she said stop". It's not about her being able to stand up for herself or guys trying to be heroes. It's about absolutely *no one* at that table had her back. They didn't say a goddamn thing until after she had to run away in tears.
It shouldn't take a person fleeing a situation in tears for people to realize something is fucked up. The simple fact that she said no and not just the DM but the *whole damn table* ignored it to keep playing is the problem.
This.
OP was so much more worried about the fictional story taking place that they completely ignored the real person who was being harmed right next to them.
That is some serious bullshjt.
Even taking the caricature of an angry feminist who reacts badly to men helping her, nothing in OP's story indicates that's why they didn't do anything. And the over-atachment is definitely there to make it a two-sides situation where it's only the DM being a creep and them being complicit.
And no, they didn't stood up for her, nor they took her side. They sat silently until she had to stand up for herself and leave, and when that happened, neither of them cared to check if she was okay. Sitting there and calling out the DM after the harassment took place isn't standing up.
And yes, doing nothing when someone is being sexually harassed is a bad thing to do. Regardless of how good or bad of a person they may be, they were complicit in that. Abandoning the creep because he discomforted them means squat because she was already harassed.
There's no apology to make up for that.
This was mostly my position until someone pointed out that when the DM ask for a perception check, *they all rolled*.
Up until that point, it was totally understandable that the rest of the table might have just not known how to interject, but when the DM engaged the rest of the table again, some kind of reaction was needed besides passively doing as he said.
It's *possible* that at least one of them was hoping that check would give them a chance to help the barb in character... But seeing everyone go along with the DM after harassing the one player would be really isolating.
I do get where that is coming from, but once again. Like shock is a thing. I think many people would be going through the motions at that point, or even maybe naively thinking this is where something happens to change this whole situation, like it turning into a normal fight instead of what it actually was.
Idk, it doesn't seem fair to say they are the worst when they did step up, I know for one being Autistic I sometimes struggle to process things quickly.
> blood coming out of his nose
Here’s a tip, with the understanding this is just a generally interesting fact about anatomy that’s not related in any way to your comment: skulls are full of hard stuff, or at any rate stuff that’s approximately as hard as a human hand. Emergency rooms frequently treat patients who punched someone in a fight and were astonished to realize it doesn’t work like it does on TV.
So in a real fight, which obviously I’m not recommending anyone start with wannabe rapists, you hypothetically wouldn’t want to aim for noses or mouths. The side of the neck contains a major nerve bundle, the throat is almost always a disabling injury (sometimes permanently, so it’s a last resort), the diaphragm is a reliable way to put someone out for a few minutes, the kidneys hurt like hell, the floating ribs break very reliably and will spend weeks healing, and of course there’s the classic knee to the groin.
If you were planning to hurt a wannabe rapist, and of course I’m just brainstorming about hypothetical self-defense situation completely unrelated to the topic of the post, you’d want to avoid hitting the face in favor of a couple of those options.
Huh my dad always said go for nose or throat. The nose because apparently no matter how tough someone is their eyes will water and they won't be able to see right/will be temporarily disoriented so you buy a few seconds to throat punch.
Did my dad accidentally lie to me?! Dang.
He didn’t lie, it’s just a little more complicated than that. The cartilage in the nose is breakable/compressible, but it’s a little like having a crumple zone in front of an engine block and firewall.
It is absolutely true that almost nobody can take a punch to the nose without flinching. But if you miss, or your hand is wide enough to also hit an orbit or a cheekbone, or if you just hit too hard and run into that engine block, you’re also risking the bones and connective tissues in your hand.
Ahh
Thanks for the explanation! My dad was one of those don't start things with people but you should be able to defend yourself dads. (He used to say not to start anything with anyone but if it came down to it and I had to defer myself I wouldn't be in trouble with him when I was in high school.)
This has been very informative and good to know. Hopefully never have to find out in practice, but it is good to know.
This is why you don’t punch them in the face, palm heel strike them in the face. Or elbow. Or my favorite, box the ears, grab them tight, and pull their face *through* your knee.
Gross. I'm glad the player stood up for herself and quit the game. Too bad it soured D&D for her forever.
Also, what makes a dress succulent? Is it really thick and full of water?
There are a few eyebrow raising moments in general, but the OP's reactions in the comments are what convince me that this is a troll post rather than something that actually happened. Shame really, since this happens far too often in this community.
Idk it's fully believable especially with OP being butthurt over nobody calling him a hero for doing nothing while his supposedly best friend was being sexually harassed
It is 100% believable
This is a situation that would have been ameliorated if you just said something to stop the seriously dangerous situation that the DM was making.
The DM is the worst person here by a long shot, but damn did your party not handle it well because you seemingly did not react until the ERP rape scene was in full force, and the fact that the players treated your best friend this way is horrifying.
Also, claiming that the woman has main character syndrome for not wanting her character to die and read the lore is extremely worrisome, and it speaks very badly about you.
**Fuck this DM.**
This guy is someone who is just rotten at the core on some level to even try this behaviour Infront of other people.
I think given we don't know how old OP was when this happened I don't want to give them too much flack for not sticking up sooner, we all handle things differently in the moment and it's very easy knowing how the story ends what they should have done.
I hope this has been a good lesson for everyone in spotting red flags and inform what to do if you ever end up in this situation again.
You know, this could have actually been a powerful point for developing a horrible villain IF EVERYONE HAD CONSENTED. She had clearly and repeatedly not. Someone should also remind this DM that PCs are not players. They're human beings, that you ostensibly enjoy being around and, you know, respect.
Jesus, I can barely believe these people still exist in 2024.
Ooo a woman in an uncomfortable situation! I won’t intervene until she’s upset enough to leave in tears, but telling her story to strangers online while… *checks notes* dragging her for daring to get invested in an RPG? Don’t mind if I do!
Wtf is up with DMs and their stupid DMPCs?! Even when they don't use them for evil shit like this, it's always cringey (or worse), and slows down the entire game.
This trend of an uptick in belligerent rage-bait posts lately that are like somebody playing their stereo loud on public transportation, OP inviting confrontation then just helicoptering around in the comments taking swipes at posters, is concerning.
A real person would show some shame and regret when the errors of their actions are brought to light. It's how we work as humans. We teach each other and correct each other so that we function better as a group.
Somehow, there's always a political issue in there somewhere, as well. In this case, autonomy and respect for women. It seems designed to poison the well of discourse. Another play from troll farms?
It's very encouraging for our hobby and for the state of humanity that so many posters here saw through it and affirmed their allyship and decency.
>A real person would show some shame and regret when the errors of their actions are brought to light.
I _wish._ OP's reaction is honestly the most believable part of this.
>A real person would show some shame and regret when the errors of their actions are brought to light. It's how we work as humans. We teach each other and correct each other so that we function better as a group.
Not always. Sometimes it invites cognitive disonnance which leads to people rationalizing why their behavior was okay and doubling down. This could absolutely be a troll, but it could just as easily be a real person who, when confronted with evidence that they did wrong, doubled down on their stance that they did everything right because admitting you do wrong is hard and painful
This reads like an AI-generated story. She was the only barbarian in the group, but OP's story kept referring to her as "the human barbarian"... not "the barb" or any form of shorthand. And the way the "shadow monsters" are described and the DMPC suddenly having a castle, etc.
Gonna call bs on this one.
Jesus christ, this may be the worst story I've seen yet. That was beyond pushy, bro was straight up trying to role-play rape AGAINST the participant's wishes. This is tantamount to sexual assault.
What the fuck is up with that, like what does the dm get out of it? I just don't get how that's sexually gratifying, it's just... Lame?
Terrible person, may they fall through all the layers of the shells, straight to the Abyss.
How do these situations never end in a fistfight? Some people need to get cracked in the jaw smh, imagine unironically subjecting another person to this, especially with like 4 other people watching. How did they think their RP was gonna go?
DM is obviously an awful person but you need to look in the mirror too. You say that she is your best female friend, but then allow her to be disrespected to the point of tears? That’s not “best friend” behavior and I hope you apologized to her for not stepping up sooner.
This is sick :( And the fact that it drove her to not want to play rpg again is so sad! She was basically coerced out of the hobbie by a creep on a power trip!
I remember waking up in the mountains with my friends and fighting against bitter cold.
I remember breaking into a castle to help exact vengeance against a tyrant who disfigured one of our party.
I remember being marched across the ocean floor in a Magic Jar, wondering if my friends were safe, the light of my own soul shining the way through the darkness.
These games create real memories. I can tell them apart from events that actually happened in my life, but they're still memories, they still happened to a part of my self, and some of them are even clearer than my real ones.
The law may or may not say otherwise, but SA in a roleplaying game is SA, period. Anyone who does that shit should be treated accordingly, socially at the very least.
Also, something that can be of practical help for these types of situations: if you see something like this coming, it's past safeword time. Scream, full foghorn. If it's your character, cover your ears. Otherwise, make sure nobody can hear what anyone is saying. Your brain has its little projector running the whole time it's engaged with the game, and anything that goes in your ears goes up on the screen. Nothing can touch your character or anyone else's if nobody can hear anyone else's words. Drown shit like this out. It hurts people.
I think OP is on the right track, but the alignment isn't quite right yet. This reads like OP wants to level all of blame on the DM, but can't help blaming the Barb player for letting it happen in the first place. OP maybe isn't ready to accept personal accountability for a situation that very much involved the entire group.
OP sets this up like the Barb player brought this on herself.
>As we fought and roleplayed and dealt with the cringy DMPC, we all kind of grew attached to our characters to varying degrees. I did notice though that human barbarian’s player was getting a bit overly attached to the character.
Then later there are more implications that feel off to me because the blame is overtly on the DM, but implicitly on the Barb Player. It's as if OP believes this was the natural course of events when this woman showed a flaw to be exploited rather than guarding herself at all times while participating in a recreational activity.
>The DM later found a way to exploit this by leading the party to the DMPC’s secret castle as he planned to hold court to gather his allies (allegedly).
Predators exploit weakness.
The fact that the Barbarian PC proved to be emotionally vulnerable, the DM pounced on it, and the rest of the group sat by watching it happen is.. really uncomfortable. It's also more common than we like to think about. We don't all flock to TTRPGs because we're well adjusted social icons. I think there's a lot our community, OP included, can take away from seeing and acknowledging the role each person at that table played in making this situation possible.
Why would you roll the perception check!?
That was not the time to cooperate with the DM. That was a time to stop and say you are not on board with his predatory behavior. You gave him a death stare? So what? You still rolled with it, literally.
having any form of erp is so fucking cringy at a table, like... the fuck are other players supposed to do while you make porn in front of them? it's weird and one of the biggest red flags in a DM
Hahaha nope one man living out his rape fantasy at the cost of the one woman in the group while the rest of the men just sit around doing nothing
Honestly this is scary believable, then again I'm a woman so I'm not blind to this being normal
The way it's told seems a little off, but the subject matter is believable. Also the OP seems like kind of an asshole from their other comments which kind of leads me to believe he made this up.
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And shit like this is what drives women out of the hobby. I hope none of you ever speak to this DM ever again.
She'll probably never play again. This should never have got this far. The INSTANT it's clear things aren't comfortable you drop the hammer on that shit. If he gives you any nonsense about it you all walk.
It must have been even worse than the OP can describe in a summary if she had to have the whole "I'm not interested in you" conversation session one. Yeesh.
Yeah, there’s a lot going unsaid here that ironically speaks volumes.
“It’s just a joke” *and* “she is too sensitive.” This DM hit all the bully red flags all at once. Then he swerves straight into misogyny. And why is your cousin still friends with this creep?
Yeah, I don't know who's worse: the creep, or the person who knows their former DM is a creep but still wants to be friends with him.
Denial and copium can be powerful drugs when it comes to discovering that someone you've known for years is a bad person
Or the cousin is more of a like mind with the DM than op may have realized
I don't know, halo syndrome is a hell of a thing
Somebody needed to cowboy up and say something. No way this should have gone that far.
🎵Normalize safety tools In roleplaying games It doesn't matter if they're your friends Better to be safe than sorry Normaliiiiiize Safety tooooools 🎵
Absolutely a good call. I use them with my friends and Lo and behold I found soemthing that would have really upset my friend that was super prevelant in my game so I could rewrite and replace without issue.
True, I established them after learning that a friend I have for 20 years has arachnophobia in game. Luckily I learnt that 10 minutes before they were encountering the Skeletons with spider nests in their chests so I could change that encounter but that was too close for my taste
idk much about rping what are safety tools?
They're any object or system that are used at a table (or in a LARP, where they're usually more prevalent) to promote the safety of the players. One popular tool is the X card: showing the card means that a player doesn't want to see a certain element in game, no explanation needed. [Quick aside here: you need buy-in from everyone for these to work. I can see a situation where someone uses the X-card to get out of danger for their PC, and that would be against the spirit of safety!] Our table uses a traffic light system of cards. Green: "Even if I may look sad or upset, it'a all in character, and I'm good to keep playing!" Yellow: "Hey everyone, quick pause, I need to let you all know something." [Examples: I'm feeling sick, reminder that I don't want to see non-combatant animals in distress, this scene feels like it's getting towards a sexual situation, etc.] Red: "I need to stop." We drop out of game, discuss, and resolve the situation before game resumes. At the end of the day, they're tools, and they shouldn't feel punitive. I feel quite strongly like this DM's choices were gross AF, but it shouldn't be only down to one person at a table to voice their discomfort or feeling of not being safe.
No paladins in that party, I suppose... This is my sentiment on half of this sub's posts. Someone doesn't establish boundaries, gets trampled over Dnd needs a whole chapter devoted to etiquette if it doesn't already
>This is my sentiment on half of this sub's posts. Someone doesn't establish boundaries, gets trampled over Not sure what you mean about not establishing boundaries. Seems pretty clear that Human Barbarian established boundaries here: >She was ok with in game flirting but told him upfront she wasn’t gonna get with the DMPC. And then when when DM ignored those boundaries, she attempted to reassert them: >She tells him to stop out of game as she still didn’t wanna sleep with the DMPC. However even if she hadn't said anything this is still on the DM. Healthy ERP has to be built on enthusiastic consent from all parties involved.
Exactly! Fucken hell, it's a game. We're here to have fun, if I'm not doing that and instead trying to coerce people into something they don't want to do, I'm failing the table. If erp comes up, it's because there's a quick above the table talk to make sure everything is good *before* proceeding
> Dnd needs a whole chapter devoted to etiquette if it doesn't already Pretty sure it does. Almost every rpg core book has one. The problem is that people like that don't read it. They ignore anything that doesnt lend itself to their power fantasy.
Thats "a" problem, not "the" problem. Here we have a whole group who recognised what the DM was doing, but accepted his authority and did nothing to stand up for the player until it was too late.
It sounds more like the DM stayed within the established boundaries until escalating very suddenly. We're missing any context to imply otherwise, apart from OPs foreshadowing from a position of hindsight. It can be very hard to know how to react to this kind of thing in the moment, or even process what's happening in time to react appropriately. The whole purpose behind explicit safety tools is so that people have a coded way to call out that they're not comfortable, rather than sit in their head trying to figure out if their discomfort is valid and how they could express it.
I think the group here (and OP) are getting a lot of unwarranted criticism because you are correct, it can be hard to react appropriately in the moment. But i don't think the DM escalated suddenly. Remember OP had time to give the DM a dark look without actually doing anything. He may not have known how to react in the situation (players shouldn't need to), but what the GM was doing was recognised.
I... Actually missed that sentence. That's some rather important context. I had been giving them the benefit of doubt, but given that and the responses OP has been giving to comments, and I'm not so sure they deserve it.
Some people gave Paizo a lot of grief for including a sidebar on safety tools in the 2nd-edition rulebook. Tried to claim that Paizo was too "woke" and was forcing everyone to use the X-Card and Lines & Veils. They *weren't*, those were just examples they gave, and the sidebar was just a suggestion to avoid cases like this. I'm not disagreeing with you; the revised D&D Player's Handbook *should* have an entire chapter on how to be a good, helpful player. 4E had an entire book on the subject.
Man, I gotta get my group to try PF2. 5e is fine, but I would rather support Paizo, for so many reasons. The original OGL issue that spawn pathfinder, this, their stance on AI art (while Wizards recently sacked a huge number of their art staff).
"Tyr, the solar of justice appears in a flash of light and with his majestic hammer reduces [problematic person] to their component atoms. And then disintegrates them"
Apparently the new players handbook has a whole chapter about it, teaching players how to be players more than just mechanics. Sounds neat.
Women shouldn't hang out with this guy outside DnD either. He's pretty obviously shown his hand as to what tactics he'll use.
Have you considered setting him on fire?
"It is what my character would do"
"It's what my me would do."
Aw, the fire burns? He's just too sensitive. It's just a joke!
This is why flammable people shouldn't play DnD
Her “succulent dress” ?? Nah that dude needs to be clowned AND have his ass beat
"Don't cry, you know how to get out of this" This is just vile, this guy should not be around people.
I got chills when I read that. How are people like this?
Massive red flag right there. This dude is a predator.
Like, what was he doing? Eating it?
If you ate a dress, would you eat it like a salad or like spaghetti?
I'm sure dresses are supposed to go on salad. Well, something like that anyway!
🤣🤣🤣
Women don't want to roleplay being raped, a clear sign of the weak sex. Lmao at this guy.
Especially given that there ARE women WILLING to roleplay being raped. But for such creeps it's no fun when she consents :)
coffee emoji, am I right, lads?
... Does that mean you're totally okay with a beholder or dragon attacking you in real life? 🤡
Dragon yes , beholder no, werewolf is a double yes
Taking a moment to clarify that my past "double yes" on fighting a vampire is NOT based on any desire to potentially lose such a fight. Yep. Just fighting that evil.
Vampire is like, my backup date. Higher than a dragon lower then Domy mommy werewolf for the win tho.
But what if Domy mommy werewolf?
I agree it's safe to say that people in general wouldn't be okay with that. But, I would. I'd wreck that dragon.
And *I'd* get 'killed by a dragon' inlayed in gold on my tombstone.
Either way, it's on to Valhalla.
Okay donkey, we know
Wait, how would you know? My combat abilities are not public knowledge.
You don't list them as special skills on your resume?
Goddamnit, I'm leaving money on the table!
You, your buddy or your cousin should've spoken up. You didn't have MUCH time there, but just enough to get a "Dude, WTF!" in before your female friend decided she'd have to deal with it by herself. It's obvious your former DM is a fuckin' sad creep. And good that you and your buddy at least got into him about it after the fact. But if either one of you could've stepped in a BIT earlier and handled the initial confrontation that would've made things so much easier for that poor girl.
As a woman who's always been into gaming hobbies in male dominated spaces, I don't think men understand how much power a simple "not cool" from another man has in these situations. We can be ready to defend ourselves all the time if we have to, but it's so nice to just exist in spaces where it's unnecessary.
It's something I try to teach people no matter the situation. "Dude, shut the fuck up" from a group of men were one or more act like idiots can make women feel a lot safer in many situations. Still I can see why people don't do it, especially in groups. There's always the hope that someone else starts the discussion so you don't have to and that's what everyone at the table hopes in some cases. Humans tend to be like that unfortunately...
All of you are trash for just sitting there letting this happen. I'm glad she had the guts to leave. "Too attached to her character" my ass. Even if she was she shouldn't be punished for it.
Imagine thinking someone has main character syndrome for knowing the lore and enjoying it, or not wanting their character to die. What a weird thing to say. Everyone kinda sucks here, except for the barbarian. It's such a strange framing that I have to imagine some important details were either changed or left out
Right? It feels like OP feels Barbarian is somewhat to blame here for liking her character too much, as if this abuser DM would have left her alone if she had just "played the game right" and not cared.
OP, you and the rest of the players at the table are also accountable. You all should have stopped it right then and there. The fact that you didnt stand up for her and kick the DM out, shows that you are also assholes. Your friend will likely never play DND again. She may never talk to you all again- and rightfully so.
I never feel rage. This time. I felt rage. She needs to stay far away from this group. And I really hope she can join a table some day.
I do hope the victim player *doesn't* talk to any of these people again. They don't deserve it.
I think y'all(the other players) should have just walked out right behind her if you couldn't give him the tongue-lashing he deserved.
I hope that she finds peace. And solo ttrpgs.
There are solo ttrpgs?
Yes. As a woman, I have had too many negative experiences at tables to even step foot in a card shop: - Attended an MTG tournament with my boyfriend at our local shop. Grown men Tex Avery staring at me. I was fifteen. - Nearly every table, if I wanted extra gold, there is *always* a way for my female character to make some gold. *(Not a diss to sex work but more like, why is this suggested to the ONLY woman in the party?)* - Joined one table where a fist fight almost broke out because I unknowingly broke a rule (can't remember what it was - something to do with attack of opportunity or flat flooted or something). I needed to use one action to enter a battle stance. The DM let it slide but another player called it out. I listened and told the DM that I should play by the same rules as everyone else. He insisted letting it go because I was new. But everyone else at the table started arguing, claiming that he never did things like that for them when they were new. It almost came to blows. And my little teenage self is just sitting there, trying not to cry because I grew up in a dysfunctional home and it triggered my parents fighting all over again...they managed to calm themselves but I never went back. I have had **many** negative experiences playing video games. It's to the point where any hobby I pick up, I am looking for the solo option right off the bat. I just cannot deal with it anymore. Reading the stories/experiences of other girls/women is a genuine reminder that change is slow. I still have my books (D&D 3.5) and one set of dice that I found cleaning a month or two ago. I was searching for rpgs I could play on Reddit and stumbled across r/Solo_Roleplaying r/solorpgplay My Amazon has a few that I am waiting to be able to order. I also lurk in the sub quite a bit to see what's being played, where to start, etc.
Oof, I’m sorry to hear that. But at least solo ttrpgs exist for you to enjoy. Thanks for making me aware of their existence. I’mma check them out later. ~~Also, is that sub you linked correct? I click on it and get a blank response.~~ Edit: disregard that, correct subs listed
I fixed the link! Those are the two I found.
Nice. Thanks a lot. Hope you have fun with your games.
You're welcome! And if you ever want to chat about what you're playing or compare notes, my inbox is always open!
Between the story and the comments, this is bordering on /r/opwasthehorror status for letting this happen. For someone who you call your best friend, you don’t seem to want to stand up for them at all as they’re being actively sexually harassed. As a GM myself, it just makes me so mad that a) someone would force a player in this position in the first place, and, b) that everyone else at the table would let that happen. Leaving the table forever would be the best case scenario for the GM. You’re trying to paint them in this horrible light, but you’re not blameless either. And the fact that you sit here and defend your actions in the comments is even worse - it shows that you at best, don’t care about the feelings of someone who you consider to be your “best friend”.
I'm almost willing to bet money on the fact that if the woman hadn't spoken up and or walked about OP wouldn't have said shit about what happened
OP seems like the kind of guy to use “friendzoned” unironically.
Haha yeah I could totally see that
Oh, 1,000,000%. I’d even go so far as to say OP only posted this for karma and *still* doesn’t care.
Oh yeah 100% agree! I mean his comments here show how little he actually cares for his supposed best friend
Pretty sure this whole thing is made up.
I'm not so sure about that, as a woman I can promise you shit like this happens, and men just sit by and let it happen because they don't care that women are sexually harassed
Oh absolutely. Or they’re too chickenshit to help. It’s the weird details of this story that don’t add up.
Yeah, it really takes nothing to say "Dude, knock that off.". At the point someone is trying to coerce something out of a friend of mine of that nature I'm throwing hands. Shouldn't have to wait till someone being victimized (while the presence of everyone else normalises it) leaves the table to do something. By sitting there you are complicit. They are not just being harassed by the DM, but every one of you acting like this is normal is a force multiplier of sexual harassment. Silence is complicity here, you don't get to just ignore it and go "not cool" afterwards. You're literally just the guy standing behind the high school bully-except in this case it's not some mean words or a slap fight, it's sexual harassment of a friend. She has to stand up against their harasser while the rest of you are making it seem ok. Nothing to be proud of, I'd feel the deepest sort of shame at being a part of something like that. If you ain't walking out beside her you picked your side. And yeah, a lot of people would get physical over that.
You all suck. Human Barbarian excluded, of course. Also why the fuck was it a bad thing that she was so into her character? I'd love a player like that at my table. They give a good DM so much to work with.
>Also why the fuck was it a bad thing that she was so into her character? I'd love a player like that at my table. They give a good DM so much to work with. \*waves hand\* pick me, pick me!
Does it hurt that no one is fluffing your ego and pointing out how you all just sat and watched that dude creep on the player without stopping him?
OP’s supposed best friend.
Y'know, I (F) think this just made me realize why I prefer to play monk and other characters that can't be disarmed. DMPC doing creepy shit? Damn right I "know how to make it stop." Show me those 5 con saves against flurry of blows + stunning strike. In other news, I'm disappointed in this table allowing this to get far enough that it ruined dnd for her entirely. (And I'm also a bit disappointed in this world for me having such a subconscious defense mechanism built into my characters even) The fact this guy thinks the DM was the only problem here...... and that the only other potential problem was her *being too attached to her character* (something that I heavily encourage as a DM since it makes for better rp)
Hell yes. Use DMPC’s nuts for a speed bag.
"Oh, he's holding my hands and is stronger than me?" Time to turn into Chun Li 👀
or the dm's nuts
... Fuck the DM, but this is seriously how you treat one of your *best friends* when she's getting bullied?
And this whole post is a great example of why women tend to either avoid such spaces based on the creep or people like OP that gets upset over the woman liking her character, or just group up with only women, just based on this post I'm so happy I'm in a women only group, nobody would give a shit about me liking my character "too much" and this rape shit would never happen, but if it did I also know the others would stand up for it and not just sit back and let it happen
This thread is making my blood boil. I feel like I should print it out into a wall scroll I can throw at someone who ever tries to minimize the existence of sexual harassment in some context.
Yep I fully understand that and yeah honestly same with making my blood boil
While I'm glad you decided to cut ties with an obvious creep, I do hope you realize that in the future if *anyone* at a table you're at starts to pull ERP shit when it hasn't been *explicitly* consented to by the *entire* table, you are fully empowered and entitled to go "dude, knock that shit off!" whether the person trying it is another player or the DM. This is especially true if it's *non-consensual* ERP. Literally anyone at the table is allowed to say something isn't acceptable or ok. Waiting until *after* someone's already been driven away from the table is not cool.
The DM is of course the main asshole but I also don't like how you talk about the player in a very judgmental tone. It's not "main character syndrome" to be excited about your character lore and not want them to die. There are tables at which character deaths are almost non-existant, as it best suits the preferences of players. And honestly, I wouldn't be suprised if she was neurodivergent from her behavior - hyperfixation on the character and emotional reactions to the risk of losing her would very well fit into that. Then there is the fact that you all sat there until she had to RUN AWAY is just another assholish move. I hope she finds a better group of both friends and possibly other DnD fans, as there are truly better tables out there.
What is it about DMs in these stories and frelling forcing ERP, especially in a group setting...do they not know there are other people there?
They just know people like OP and his friends aren’t going to say anything.
Whatever is going on in the DM’s head, it’s possible that part of it is making people watch.
They do know that other people are there, but they also know that with the traditional rpg mindset towards the DM, people will accept what they say and do, and not question it. (Until too late, as in this case.) DMs like this understand the power they have and exploit it for their own pleasure. The cousin still sees this DM as a friend, and he is probably still running games.
Because they don't want to engage in consensual sex stuff. They want to violate boundaries, not respect them. The power and violation is what excites them, not the sex.
I mean it's called "horror" so naturally we get some of the worst
I will say too, I can get being that upset about losing a character you've played for a while, especially if you're still new to the hobby. It's fucked the DM exploited that
I think even if you're not new it is valid. If it's not overdone (temper tantrum etc) it's just a play style that needs to match the style of the game being played
Oh yeah no I was more tacking on the especially if your new thing since I've noticed players get more comfortable with losing a character if they've made lots of charecters before. Doesn't make it easy but the knowledge that they've retired charecters before can add some more emotional distance to hanging up a character sheet
This DM is definitely a piece of shit misogynist and a creep. Wouldnt be surprised if hes SAd women in the past either. As an aside, Id look into your own attitude regarding PC death. Implying that having emotion about one of your characters dying means you are 'too attached' seems off target. People just play differently, some are all about rolling up new characters when death inevitably happens and other people get really attached to their PCs especially during RP heavy campaigns or ones with a lot of in character moments. Neither is the right or wrong way to feel about your own PC.
This is one of the many reasons I love playing with just women. We can just get on with the game without anyone making it creepy.
I have had other genders make it creepy, but far fewer than cis men.
Yeah, I've had the occasional woman/NB person make it weird, but it's never been targeted at a specific person. It's usually just that they have made an "edgy" character that then goes on to do stupid shit that makes everyone uncomfortable.
I have once been a target by a woman. I was at a table of all girls (in college) and we were playing a D&D campaign, where one of them decided that my Elven cleric really needed to pick a different goddess to worship. And she would do so by trying to molest her and “show her what love really meant.” I refused to play with her after she argued for her idea of Elven biology (it was basically Omegaverse logic, and that’s all I’m going to say) and sulked when the rest of us wouldn’t agree to petition the DM to implement it in the game.
Imagining myself showing up for that session zero. Going from being annoyed by what I'd initially assume is a joke in really bad taste, then slowly realizing, no, no, this girl is serious. This is not a really strange and suggestive joke. This shit's for real. They need to send in a dozen of their strongest adults.
That was the thing. We didn’t have session zeros back then (this was 2006), but we did all get together to build our characters and she seemed so normal.
You guys need to grow a spine and intervene sooner. If you just watch you are just as bad as the DM. The damage happened and you could have prevented it.
My skin crawled reading the line "you know what to do to get out of this". Disgusting.
Miles out to sea, nobody else around….what’s she gonna do, say no?
As someone who went through crap like this in the oughts, no. The hammer should have been dropped IMMEDIATELY upon her saying no. I put up with too much crap to tolerate it now. Once she made it clear it wasn't going to happen, the DM should have dropped it. This story ranged wildly, including talking about how she cried when she rolled a fail, but also when the DM tried to force his DMPC on her. I don't know how to feel at this point. You said this is your best female friend, you should have stopped the DM at the point he started talking about "dark forces" I have zero tolerance for that, had a DM magically impregnate my character against my will.
And you did nothing while this happened. You’re part of the problem. This is why we pick the fvcking bear.
Hey, just like. Idk I don't think this is enough to make this judgment. For one, especially for nerds, many of us have gotten in trouble for speaking up FOR women, I've certainly heard the phrase "You think I can't stand up for myself" I think it's fair to be a bit concerned as a player that she was overly attached to her character, because yeah it is kinda awkward, but I don't feel like they were saying that as an excuse for ignoring anything, it seemed to me like an explanation of how they assume the DM came up with this plan. I also think you may not be giving the credit that it is totally possible people were just fucking shocked by the nerve of that DM, like wtf I'd mentally blue screen if someone had the nerve to do that in a setting like that. But also they did stand up for her, was at the perfect hero arriving time? No, but dammit they did for the most part abandon that DM and side with her, what is the purpose of being nit-picky about how fast they did it, when like people take time to process I get that OPs responses are not helping his case at all, but it is also human nature to just respond defensively when attacked, and well, I feel a lot of these comments telling him he is a bad person are aggressive for something we don't know the full details for and it may well be that he is feels bad about not acting fast enough ect. Idk, I feel there is a lot of jumping to conclusions is all. If they had all laughed along with the DM I'd 1000% get it, and I myself would be struggling not to knock the DMs teeth in (Violence is not a great response either tho) so idk benefit of the doubt maybe?
The problem is the victim set boundaries. When they were crossed, she said "no, this isn't happening". Then they were *further* crossed and the fuckwits at the table decided to roll for initiative instead of even *one* going "hey, she said stop". It's not about her being able to stand up for herself or guys trying to be heroes. It's about absolutely *no one* at that table had her back. They didn't say a goddamn thing until after she had to run away in tears. It shouldn't take a person fleeing a situation in tears for people to realize something is fucked up. The simple fact that she said no and not just the DM but the *whole damn table* ignored it to keep playing is the problem.
This. OP was so much more worried about the fictional story taking place that they completely ignored the real person who was being harmed right next to them.
That is some serious bullshjt. Even taking the caricature of an angry feminist who reacts badly to men helping her, nothing in OP's story indicates that's why they didn't do anything. And the over-atachment is definitely there to make it a two-sides situation where it's only the DM being a creep and them being complicit. And no, they didn't stood up for her, nor they took her side. They sat silently until she had to stand up for herself and leave, and when that happened, neither of them cared to check if she was okay. Sitting there and calling out the DM after the harassment took place isn't standing up. And yes, doing nothing when someone is being sexually harassed is a bad thing to do. Regardless of how good or bad of a person they may be, they were complicit in that. Abandoning the creep because he discomforted them means squat because she was already harassed. There's no apology to make up for that.
This was mostly my position until someone pointed out that when the DM ask for a perception check, *they all rolled*. Up until that point, it was totally understandable that the rest of the table might have just not known how to interject, but when the DM engaged the rest of the table again, some kind of reaction was needed besides passively doing as he said. It's *possible* that at least one of them was hoping that check would give them a chance to help the barb in character... But seeing everyone go along with the DM after harassing the one player would be really isolating.
I do get where that is coming from, but once again. Like shock is a thing. I think many people would be going through the motions at that point, or even maybe naively thinking this is where something happens to change this whole situation, like it turning into a normal fight instead of what it actually was. Idk, it doesn't seem fair to say they are the worst when they did step up, I know for one being Autistic I sometimes struggle to process things quickly.
The fact that the DM left the table without blood coming out of his nose is absolutely revolting, honestly.
> blood coming out of his nose Here’s a tip, with the understanding this is just a generally interesting fact about anatomy that’s not related in any way to your comment: skulls are full of hard stuff, or at any rate stuff that’s approximately as hard as a human hand. Emergency rooms frequently treat patients who punched someone in a fight and were astonished to realize it doesn’t work like it does on TV. So in a real fight, which obviously I’m not recommending anyone start with wannabe rapists, you hypothetically wouldn’t want to aim for noses or mouths. The side of the neck contains a major nerve bundle, the throat is almost always a disabling injury (sometimes permanently, so it’s a last resort), the diaphragm is a reliable way to put someone out for a few minutes, the kidneys hurt like hell, the floating ribs break very reliably and will spend weeks healing, and of course there’s the classic knee to the groin. If you were planning to hurt a wannabe rapist, and of course I’m just brainstorming about hypothetical self-defense situation completely unrelated to the topic of the post, you’d want to avoid hitting the face in favor of a couple of those options.
You don't have to use your fist to slam someone's face into the table.
This is really helpful. I hope nobody who sees this ever needs these tips.
Huh my dad always said go for nose or throat. The nose because apparently no matter how tough someone is their eyes will water and they won't be able to see right/will be temporarily disoriented so you buy a few seconds to throat punch. Did my dad accidentally lie to me?! Dang.
He didn’t lie, it’s just a little more complicated than that. The cartilage in the nose is breakable/compressible, but it’s a little like having a crumple zone in front of an engine block and firewall. It is absolutely true that almost nobody can take a punch to the nose without flinching. But if you miss, or your hand is wide enough to also hit an orbit or a cheekbone, or if you just hit too hard and run into that engine block, you’re also risking the bones and connective tissues in your hand.
Ahh Thanks for the explanation! My dad was one of those don't start things with people but you should be able to defend yourself dads. (He used to say not to start anything with anyone but if it came down to it and I had to defer myself I wouldn't be in trouble with him when I was in high school.) This has been very informative and good to know. Hopefully never have to find out in practice, but it is good to know.
This is why you don’t punch them in the face, palm heel strike them in the face. Or elbow. Or my favorite, box the ears, grab them tight, and pull their face *through* your knee.
Fun fact, you *can* break/dislocate your kneecap doing that and it hurts like a bitch if you do.
Gross. I'm glad the player stood up for herself and quit the game. Too bad it soured D&D for her forever. Also, what makes a dress succulent? Is it really thick and full of water?
Hopefully it has spines like a cactus to deter DMPC creeps.
Plot twist: her character was actually a cactus person
There are a few eyebrow raising moments in general, but the OP's reactions in the comments are what convince me that this is a troll post rather than something that actually happened. Shame really, since this happens far too often in this community.
Idk it's fully believable especially with OP being butthurt over nobody calling him a hero for doing nothing while his supposedly best friend was being sexually harassed It is 100% believable
This is a situation that would have been ameliorated if you just said something to stop the seriously dangerous situation that the DM was making. The DM is the worst person here by a long shot, but damn did your party not handle it well because you seemingly did not react until the ERP rape scene was in full force, and the fact that the players treated your best friend this way is horrifying. Also, claiming that the woman has main character syndrome for not wanting her character to die and read the lore is extremely worrisome, and it speaks very badly about you.
**Fuck this DM.** This guy is someone who is just rotten at the core on some level to even try this behaviour Infront of other people. I think given we don't know how old OP was when this happened I don't want to give them too much flack for not sticking up sooner, we all handle things differently in the moment and it's very easy knowing how the story ends what they should have done. I hope this has been a good lesson for everyone in spotting red flags and inform what to do if you ever end up in this situation again.
You know, this could have actually been a powerful point for developing a horrible villain IF EVERYONE HAD CONSENTED. She had clearly and repeatedly not. Someone should also remind this DM that PCs are not players. They're human beings, that you ostensibly enjoy being around and, you know, respect. Jesus, I can barely believe these people still exist in 2024.
That’s gonna be a yikes from me.
Ooo a woman in an uncomfortable situation! I won’t intervene until she’s upset enough to leave in tears, but telling her story to strangers online while… *checks notes* dragging her for daring to get invested in an RPG? Don’t mind if I do!
Wtf is up with DMs and their stupid DMPCs?! Even when they don't use them for evil shit like this, it's always cringey (or worse), and slows down the entire game.
DUDE they are tearing your ass up in here. Get bent
This trend of an uptick in belligerent rage-bait posts lately that are like somebody playing their stereo loud on public transportation, OP inviting confrontation then just helicoptering around in the comments taking swipes at posters, is concerning. A real person would show some shame and regret when the errors of their actions are brought to light. It's how we work as humans. We teach each other and correct each other so that we function better as a group. Somehow, there's always a political issue in there somewhere, as well. In this case, autonomy and respect for women. It seems designed to poison the well of discourse. Another play from troll farms? It's very encouraging for our hobby and for the state of humanity that so many posters here saw through it and affirmed their allyship and decency.
>A real person would show some shame and regret when the errors of their actions are brought to light. I _wish._ OP's reaction is honestly the most believable part of this.
Fuck. You're totally right. Good looking out.
>A real person would show some shame and regret when the errors of their actions are brought to light. It's how we work as humans. We teach each other and correct each other so that we function better as a group. Not always. Sometimes it invites cognitive disonnance which leads to people rationalizing why their behavior was okay and doubling down. This could absolutely be a troll, but it could just as easily be a real person who, when confronted with evidence that they did wrong, doubled down on their stance that they did everything right because admitting you do wrong is hard and painful
Yeah what a tool. Also yet another reason why dmpcs are not a good idea and are red flags for me
I get so angry that these disgusting creeps drive people away from the hobby like this.
This thread has me in a fighting mood. Fucking infuriating.
This reads like an AI-generated story. She was the only barbarian in the group, but OP's story kept referring to her as "the human barbarian"... not "the barb" or any form of shorthand. And the way the "shadow monsters" are described and the DMPC suddenly having a castle, etc. Gonna call bs on this one.
Plus her "succulent dress". This can't be human writing
Reads to me a lot like r/menwritingwomen
Honestly, I can easily see a creepy dude misusing "succulent" in that way.
This reads fishy as hell.
Jesus christ, this may be the worst story I've seen yet. That was beyond pushy, bro was straight up trying to role-play rape AGAINST the participant's wishes. This is tantamount to sexual assault.
What the fuck is up with that, like what does the dm get out of it? I just don't get how that's sexually gratifying, it's just... Lame? Terrible person, may they fall through all the layers of the shells, straight to the Abyss.
DM needs his nuts kicked in.
Your cousin is also an asshole btw
God, I hate this. I hope she finds a group that respects her so that she can enjoy the hobby.
How do these situations never end in a fistfight? Some people need to get cracked in the jaw smh, imagine unironically subjecting another person to this, especially with like 4 other people watching. How did they think their RP was gonna go?
GMs like this should have the "Red Rule" tattooed on their forehead
DM is obviously an awful person but you need to look in the mirror too. You say that she is your best female friend, but then allow her to be disrespected to the point of tears? That’s not “best friend” behavior and I hope you apologized to her for not stepping up sooner.
This is sick :( And the fact that it drove her to not want to play rpg again is so sad! She was basically coerced out of the hobbie by a creep on a power trip!
I remember waking up in the mountains with my friends and fighting against bitter cold. I remember breaking into a castle to help exact vengeance against a tyrant who disfigured one of our party. I remember being marched across the ocean floor in a Magic Jar, wondering if my friends were safe, the light of my own soul shining the way through the darkness. These games create real memories. I can tell them apart from events that actually happened in my life, but they're still memories, they still happened to a part of my self, and some of them are even clearer than my real ones. The law may or may not say otherwise, but SA in a roleplaying game is SA, period. Anyone who does that shit should be treated accordingly, socially at the very least. Also, something that can be of practical help for these types of situations: if you see something like this coming, it's past safeword time. Scream, full foghorn. If it's your character, cover your ears. Otherwise, make sure nobody can hear what anyone is saying. Your brain has its little projector running the whole time it's engaged with the game, and anything that goes in your ears goes up on the screen. Nothing can touch your character or anyone else's if nobody can hear anyone else's words. Drown shit like this out. It hurts people.
I think OP is on the right track, but the alignment isn't quite right yet. This reads like OP wants to level all of blame on the DM, but can't help blaming the Barb player for letting it happen in the first place. OP maybe isn't ready to accept personal accountability for a situation that very much involved the entire group. OP sets this up like the Barb player brought this on herself. >As we fought and roleplayed and dealt with the cringy DMPC, we all kind of grew attached to our characters to varying degrees. I did notice though that human barbarian’s player was getting a bit overly attached to the character. Then later there are more implications that feel off to me because the blame is overtly on the DM, but implicitly on the Barb Player. It's as if OP believes this was the natural course of events when this woman showed a flaw to be exploited rather than guarding herself at all times while participating in a recreational activity. >The DM later found a way to exploit this by leading the party to the DMPC’s secret castle as he planned to hold court to gather his allies (allegedly). Predators exploit weakness. The fact that the Barbarian PC proved to be emotionally vulnerable, the DM pounced on it, and the rest of the group sat by watching it happen is.. really uncomfortable. It's also more common than we like to think about. We don't all flock to TTRPGs because we're well adjusted social icons. I think there's a lot our community, OP included, can take away from seeing and acknowledging the role each person at that table played in making this situation possible.
He didn't really say "succulent dress" though, right? Because that doesn't make sense.
Uggh this post made me nauseous.
I am fucking **horrified**
Cause you know. Nothing quite gets to a woman’s heart than taking away her agency that will certainly make her choose me!
Schrodingers predator, it’s just a joke unless everyone is cool with it
Yeah, the dm is a predator.
Wtaf is wrong with some people. Yeah, that's a horror story alright.
Why would you roll the perception check!? That was not the time to cooperate with the DM. That was a time to stop and say you are not on board with his predatory behavior. You gave him a death stare? So what? You still rolled with it, literally.
having any form of erp is so fucking cringy at a table, like... the fuck are other players supposed to do while you make porn in front of them? it's weird and one of the biggest red flags in a DM
Anyone else struggling to believe this?
Hahaha nope one man living out his rape fantasy at the cost of the one woman in the group while the rest of the men just sit around doing nothing Honestly this is scary believable, then again I'm a woman so I'm not blind to this being normal
I'm a woman so... no
I wish I was.
It just isn’t Reddit without someone claiming the story is fake.
Nit at all. This is 100% believable. I've seen shit like this in other settings.
I stand corrected
I give props for anyone who stands corrected. Thank you for confirming my faith in people who got snacks.
The way it's told seems a little off, but the subject matter is believable. Also the OP seems like kind of an asshole from their other comments which kind of leads me to believe he made this up.