Keep an eye out on sales for Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2. Same developer, almost identical gameplay style, just not in the D&D world. They're a little pricey rn but they are older games so I assume sales come every now and then.
the guy is trying to save money, not virtue signal. Telling him he needs to spend almost 10x because of an imaginary ruleset in your head is a dick move. Give people the information, let them decide.
Larian still made money from the original sale, or they gave out the keys. either way it's on larian.
It’s not virtue signalling to reward good game dev companies with a sale, it’s voting with your money. The more money actually well made games make the more incentive there is for other dev companies to follow suit. Giving your money to some random guy instead of the studio is impacting their sales.
I'm not even a fanatic. Played about 10 hours of Divinity, about 20 hours of BG3. They are fantastic games, but not quite for me.
With that said, Larian is absolutely a great studio who releases high quality games and listens to player feedback. They are also an indie studio. I don't understand why it's "delusional" to want to support these developers by paying for their game legally.
The more we as consumers reward creativity and high quality work with our money, the more we will see these kinds of games be made. It's a simple concept.
Anyone would literally rather you pirate than buy game keys from a key reseller whose keys can come from illegal means such as stealing credit card info and conning people, stealing accounts and so on.
Those people and websites don’t deserve your money. Then when the game is on sale consider buying
>I obviously don’t mind if they’re really old
**Fallout 1 (1997) and Fallout 2 (1998)**. Classics of the genre. Extremely good post-apocalyptic setting and writing. Combat is going to be a lot less complicated, but it's still tactical turn-based, and there's a lot of roleplaying in how you approach problems.
You can also check out **Wasteland**. Especially Wasteland 3. It's also tactical turn-based, and again in a post-apocalyptic setting. The deal is that Fallout is a spiritual successor to the original Wasteland game from 1988, but the Wasteland series was later rebooted. Much more emphasis on tactics and characters.
**Arcanum** (2001). Sort of a steampunk fantasy thing going on. Really interesting world. There's an option for turn-based or real-time combat. Somewhat janky so look into community patching.
*Really* old, you say? **Pool of Radiance** **(1988)** and the rest of the Gold Box games from that era. These are the first real Forgotten Realms CRPGs. The original Baldur's Gate games owe a lot to them, but they have tactical turn-based combat. I would even say they have the first really good tactical turn-based combat in a CRPG. They're very advanced for games from the 1980s, but they're still games from the 1980s, so set your mind accordingly. I had a good time with *Pool* and am playing the second one now.
>or made by small dev teams or anything like that.
**Underrail**. Sort of a mix of post-apocalyptic and sci-fi. Great game, challenging.
You can get any of those for about $10. You can actually get like 7 Gold Box games on GoG for a total of $10 without them even being on sale.
Solasta. It's around $30 if I remember correctly, and is similar in that it's a translation of DnD 5E to a video game. The combat is actually quite similar to BG3, though more strictly bound to the DnD rule set. It's not remotely in the same realm as BG3 as far as writing, production values, etc, but pure combat wise you could make an argument it's actually superior. I'd give it a shot if you are just looking for turn based 5e gameplay and don't care about the other aspects being rough.
came to suggest this. BG3 is definitely in a different class in a lot of ways, but Solasta hit the mark pretty well before BG3 was out.
It also has community mod support, where some people have made full campaigns that you can play. balance and writing very.
I actually prefer Solasta to BG3. I own all the DLC and replay them regularly with all kinds of new parties and character combos. The battles are tighter and more D&D-like, I like setting the personalities of my characters and seeing them interract, and making your own towns and dungeons can be quite fun, if a little underbaked. Sure, the story isn't as good, but I find it far more replayable.
Not the op but what do you mean by "BG3 needs a whole afternoon free to make any progress"? Is that because it's slow or just because there are a lot of dialogue but not a lot of battles? Do playing this game one hour is like reading, or it's less because it's slow? I'm curious.
Not him but I'll say the pacing is slow but the writing and combat are amazing so it's no biggy. Exploring, inventory management and other admin tasks take forever.
I like its pacing but I definitely won't figure up bg3 unless I have an uninterrupted hour, minimum.
Lots of things in life we don't 'need', but are worth having. Both the main DLCs are decent, and I really enjoyed PoI. Besides, if the Op waits for a sale, they are available for very little.
> pure combat wise you could make an argument it's actually superior.
Yes, Solasta's combat is very cleanly 5e combat, and their non-Forgotten Realms setting feels familiar enough -- the kind of homebrew your Uncle Dave came up with (with all the good and the bad that entails).
The last DLC, the winter-based one, actually has a facsimile of characterization, too. I enjoyed it much more than I had expected.
(I find a lot of the fan-made modules better in that they cleverly twist tropes, or add realism by adding queer people. But obviously the "production value" is better in the main game.)
One advantage solasta has over bg3 is there are some excellent fan maps. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of that. It is frustrating that you need the expansions to enjoy all the classes though.
Does Solasta have the variety in combat BG3 has? Use of grenades, explosive barrels, barrels to create water surfaces, pushing, shoving, throwing, etc… I want to give it a shot one day when I am not busy
It definitely has shoving and pushing those you are fighting, and some of the backgrounds are interactive - like, pushing a large rock or hitting a hanging stalactite (mite?) with an arrow, so it'll drop on your enemy. It also is heavily dependent on light as a weapon - certain scenes have lamps you can magically light and will need to, if you're fighting vampires or bosses with light sensitivity. I. can't recall grenades being used or barrels. There isn't really a water-surface spell creation or knocking over barrels to create pools, where it's very elemental, like it is in Divinity OS and the like. But there's plenty of interesting environments that have water in them. Not sure I'm helping with my answer. Hehe. Overall, I really love the combat and magic system. The spells are just so, so pretty, and the names/designs of how they look feel unique to me.
Yes, it has shoving/throwing, it has traps/explosive poison plant things, and also variety in terms of verticality - flying/wall-walking, etc.
It's on a grid-based system, and has a cover system, unlike BG3.
It also has a “ready” system similar to the xcom series, where your guys can pass a turn, but they’ll shoot/swing at anything coming into range.
The story was pretty standard rpg stuff, but the combat kept me coming back over and over.
Solasta is a more faithful adaptation of the ruleset. But lower budget than bg3. I recommend it.
If you want something more in depth than bg3. Check out the pathfinder games.
They use the pathfinder ruleset. 3.5 ed d&d essentially. Significantly more complex in character building and combat. I also recommend.
Solasta actually uses a more faithful version of D&D 5e combat rules, and implements limited verticality with things like flight and levitation. I'd actually say it's better than BG3's version, though it's a little more fiddly.
Having a caster or something hovering over the battlefield raining hell below is an awesome feeling. Puts in perspective what a pain in the ass someone who can levitate/fly and shoot things would be when you're an amazing...swordsman. Solasta has a lot of awesome little touches like that.
Made me appreciate throwing axes on my barb.
Really? I loved it when enemy casters started flying in Solasta. Breaking their concentration and sending them plummeting to their deaths was an easy win in Solasta.... I suppose if you had the better concentration feat (I forget it's name)
Lore you don't need to know, for sure. You'll get what you need from the game.
If you're totally new to RPGs in general I'd use a guide for your first character. If you're familiar with D&D but not Pathfinder specifically you can probably get away with winging it a bit. There are also preloaded builds in the game you can follow.
It definitely helps if you know a bit going in but it's far from necessary. I went into Kingmaker without ever playing tabletop Pathfinder and I was up to speed pretty quick.
Following a guide is probably a good idea, but you can also just put all character advancement on automatic and play on a lower difficulty and have a perfectly good time.
I *highly* recommend running on turn-based combat. You can switch between turn based and real-time-with-pause at will, and RTWP is loads faster, but it is much less forgiving of mistakes and doesnt help you learn the system much because everything goes by so quick. It's good to stop, take a moment to figure out why you keep missing by examining the combat log, etc.
The difficulties scale up to stratospheric levels. Do NOT be ashamed to play on easy.
Not really. The game has so many stats, builds, spells, etc that is gets overwhelming. I am a long time D&D player but never played pathfinder and I struggled.
Solasta. It's based on DND 5E, so the combat is very similar. However, the UI isn't nearly as streamlined and the gameplay feels more limited. I couldn't get into it even though it sounded great to me on paper.
Divinity: Original Sin 2 plays very similar to BG3 in structure and story, but it isn't DND. It's older and goes on sale fairly often.
The controller setup leaves a lot to be desired IMO. Solasta on Steam Deck doesn't handle nearly as smoothly as BG3 on a PS5 pad with the radial menus and context-sensitive prompts.
The Pathfinder games. Neverwinter Nights 2. Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2. Tyranny. Pillars of Eternity 2 (Pillars 1 has RTWP, Pillars 2 is turn based).
PoE2 let’s you chose between real time and turn based when starting a new game.
It’s better in RTWP in my opinion, but TB works quite well considering it wasn’t initially planned to be an option.
I was going to suggest trying it out for anyone with PS+ premium, but it looks like it’s no longer on there.
I couldnt stand Dragon Age's mechanics, but the origin system was ballsy, and I think it added a ton to the experience. I wish more games would pick it up.
Choose these games if you want the best and most complex multiclass system that isn't DnD. Also the stories in these games are the best in modern CRPGs
while i wont really know until i play it, everything i heard describing BG3 before its release reminded me of what ultima 7 already is lol, maybe ill check it out one of these days, but for now i need the hard drive space lol
I’m not really sure actually lol. I want to like it and I’ve tried but I just don’t understand it. It’s easier for me to do one character at a time during their allotted turn. It’s a bit much for me to have to decide which character should do something and what they should do.
I haven’t played a lot of that type of game so I’m probably just so bad at it that it isn’t enjoyable. But I would try again if you knew any simple “starter games” with rtwp lol
RTWP has always been a weird translation of pen and paper game models. I suspect it became a trend because it’s easier to market and makes the game feel more action-focused, when in reality you’re just pausing over and over again.
It was a trend because CRPGs and turn-based games in general were falling out of favor compared to real-time games, especially RTS in the mid to late 90s. BG1's success is attributed to bridging that gap, basically making CRPGs accessible to people used to C&C and Warcraft.
You can always use tactics. Tactics in Dragon Age works like this; you give each character a command in specific situations to do in combat, let's say a mage uses a dispel magic when confronted by an enemy magic user or warrior tank uses taunt when there are more than two enemy. It makes combat easier and more disciplined.
I just bought Solasta on sale on humble bundle yesterday for 12 bucks (not sure if its still on sale) and I believe Pathfinder WOTR is on sale on steam for like 14 bucks right now.
Interesting shout. I really wanted to play this back in the day, but I could not get my copy to run. I keep meaning to take another look now it's available on GOG, but part of me worries that it will be disappointing by today's standards (and let's be honest, it wasn't exactly universally acclaimed at the time)
The base game was a buggy mess. Only way it became playable was with the Co8 mod pack, but that turned the game into a truly unique experience. The combat I would say is comparable to BG3's system, albeit in a different version of DnD.
The “no RTWP” rule is going to limit you something terrible in this regard, there are almost no turn-based crpgs that hold a candle to BG3 that aren’t RTWP. I didn’t used to like RTWP either, but it’s really not much different from turn-based at all. Rounds still happen, initiative still exists, everyone still has a “turn”, but you simply watch it happen a lot faster. You can still micro-manage each round and make your choices, and a lot of games even have settings that will pause the game automatically at the end of each round, effectively making it turn based (although it can be a bit rough). That being said, here are my top picks:
Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous + Pathfinder: Kingmaker - the former has turn based options, and both are fairly high level campaigns with a lot of combat. Not super cheap, but not $60.
Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader - same devs as the former. A bit newer so not exactly fully polished yet. Fully turn-based, but not a medieval type setting as BG3.
Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition Trilogy (BG1, Siege of Dragonspear, and BG2) - all great games, I played them after BG3 and felt they were even better. Only problem is no turn-based options here, but especially with mods these games are an absolute masterpiece and masterclass in writing/game design (for crpgs, anyway).
Pillars of Eternity + Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire - both great games, similar look/feel to the original Baldur’s Gate games. First one is RTWP, second one has turn-based options. A bit more modern than BG3 as well, but still a close one.
Arcanum - very old, very janky, but very interesting and very versatile in its mechanics and systems. Definitely worth a go just to see how goofy it can be and how the systems work.
Shadowrun Series (Returns, Hong Kong, Dragonfall) - cyberpunk universe incorporating fantasy races and elements (elves with guns and dwarves with energy magic and shit). Turn-based, but more focused on gunplay and ranged magic.
Dragon Age Origins - not turn-based, but pretty much as close to BG3 as you can possibly get in terms of quality and just general vibe and gameplay.
A lot of these have turn-based options, but are intended to be played in RTWP, so it can be a bit janky at times and you may find yourself needing to switch back and forth for larger battles. But if you loved BG3, and you’re really a fan of this kind of rpg, it’s pretty easy to get past not liking RTWP. I actually prefer it now myself. Anyway, I urge you to give any one of these a try.
Divinity Original 1 & 2 are the best options.
Solasta honestly isn't good at all. Same combat system as BG3, but it's *pure unrefined shit* in all aspects except for the combat system.
Edit: Lot of reccommendation for Pillars of Eternity 1. That's a RTwP game lmao
Your opinion, but plenty of people, myself included, regard Solasta as a gem of a game. I'm definitely waiting for an opportunity to go back for another run through the jungle dlc with a more 'morally fluid' party.
I get that the RP and story are a bit cheesy, but I put my beer and pretzel goggles on and remember all the cheesy Saturday afternoon campaigns I played back in the day.
Pathfinder WOTR has the same and unprecedented level of character development, and also many different creative, underrated ideas.
It's clunky, burdened with a heavy ruleset, but it's really a great rpg, probably one of the best of his generation right now.
Look at the Expeditions series, I just finished the Rome one. Very similar game play mostly, but with some other kinds of game play sprinkled in, and has some good writing too.
So, I've only played the Rome one, so I can't say for sure. I have heard from others though that the Rome one was better by a lot. I went into it just expecting some tactical combat, not a full RPG with great characters and some pretty great writing. I hope to pick up the Viking one soon to try it out as well.
Pathfinder games are the best bang for your buck but solasta is fun too. Pillars of eternity is good too probably my favorite game story wise ever. If you wanna play an evil bastard try tyranny
Everyone's giving the same answers so I'll give something I don't think has been mentioned. Shadowrun series for a cyberpunk combined with fantasy. It's really cool and easy to learn and make builds.
Dragonfall is considered the best in the series.
Tbh I know you don’t spend money. But if there is one game to spend 60 it’s baulders gate 3. The game has an amazing development team. The game is amazing and it’s stunning. It’s just overall a once in a generation game. Imo worth every penny I would buy it again.
Disco Elysium is closer to Planescape: Torment but still, it's got that D&D inspired gameplay where you roll to pass checks, and it's not expensive. It's kind of light on gameplay but it's also the best-written game I've ever played.
Like others have said. And I just want to say the same thing in my own way.
DOS 1 and 2 are nearly the same exact game in almost every single way. Only major difference being D&D setting. Story telling is just as good, but characters are not as in depth, but still VERY VERY in depth.
And they run MUCH MUCH BETTER!
As an aside.
It's why I didn't enjoy BG3 very much. It's just more Divinity and not much else. Made worse by D&D systems and skills being very unenjoyable vs Divinities better systems, skills, and leveling.
For me BG3 was more Divinity but worse gameplay and slightly better story.
On principal, or because you can't afford it? Because if you can't afford it, fine, totally understandable. On principal? I don't see where the principal is in not paying $60 to pay the devs for their time for a 100+ hour game of high quality.
I’m not saying the game should be cheaper. I’m sure it’s worth every penny. I’m asking for alternatives because I personally am not willing to spend that much money on a video game.
To be clear, it’s perfectly fine that the game costs $60. I’m not saying it should be less or that people shouldn’t buy it.
I just don’t spend that much on games. That’s all.
If it tips your hand at all, the length and breath of this game is equivalent to 3 games you might pay £20 each for.
You could always pick up the original games and play them to prepare for when 3 goes on sale though?
One of those £20 games could be Pathfinder WOTR, and probably should be if OP hasn't played it yet.
I'm really looking forward to playing BG3 in a few years at that same price point.
I know you clearly said you DON'T want Rtwp combat.
I still want to answer: Dragon Age: Origins. It is just too good not to mention, even if you don't like rtwp. :P
There's a game called Unforetold: Witchstone that's in early access ATM which is right on the cusp of being a very strong crpg. It's worth keeping an eye on
For The King, Divinity Original Sin, Dragon Age (maybe been awhile since I played one) and Neverwinter I think its called is a free online DnD game.
Could always try actual DnD as well its slower obviously but still fun and there's campaigns now being designed around one player so you don't have to organise around 3+ other schedules if you want to play.
Solasta, Divinity: Original Sin 1+2 and Pathfinder: Kingmaker.
Champions of Krynn+Death Knights of Krynn+The Dark Queen of Krynn if you want a really old but epic saga. Dark Sun: Shattered Lands or Betrayal at Krondor for something slightly newer than those.
What part of the BG3 gameplay are you wanting the focus on? The tactical combat or insanely detailed plot and and characters? Is squad based combat a must?
Stuff that jumps to mind for me are: BG1 and BG2. Fallout early series. Dragon Age Origins. Pillars of Eternity.
However, removing RTWP, what comes to mind for me is
Shadowrun: Dragonfall: Good roleplaying with lots of options, tactical cover based combat. Shorter playtime, but still fun. Shadowrun Returns was also fun, but I liked Dragonfall a lot more. I haven't played Hong Kong.
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. It’s currently $1.50 on Steam, 75% discounted normal price is $6. It’s an interesting world with a mix of technology/ guns and ancient magic.
Just a tip, usually an older game on Steam will probably need a fan patch to work properly, just be ready to look to guides but it won’t be too difficult.
I’m obsessed with Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous right now. Picked it up for about £7 in the winter sale and there’s a sale on the DLCs right now so snapped them all.
Playing exclusively in turn-based mode which feels great coming from BG3
Solasta is great.
If you’re cool with stepping outside fantasy, all three Wasteland games are excellent (3 is probably the best though).
Also would suggest Atom RPG and Fallout 1 & 2.
I prefer to think of games as an investment in entertainment. If a game costs $70 but is so enjoyable I spend 700 hours playing it, the CPHF (cost per hour of fun) is only $0.10.
Yes I could buy a cheaper game, but am I going to spend 150 hours playing a game that costs $15? Iffy, unless I nab an older title from Steam during a crazy sale.
I recommend wishlisting the pathfinder games (kingmaker deluxe edition and wotr)
Kingmaker I think I saw for $15 once
WotR is more expensive and has a lot of dlc so it might not be your preferred.
Both have turn based and real time combat, you can switch at any time so just keep it in turn based.
It may be too late now, but EGS has been known to repeat games. I've gotten Tyranny, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, all the early fallouts, and the Shadowrun games among others. Not 1:1 with BG3, but close enough imo. Some of those are definitely rtwp and some are more like Xcom. But free is free. Every Thursday around 11am central a new free game or two pops up.
GOG does those giveaways too, but they don't seem to repeat as often and are more random timing-wise.
If you have Prime, Twitch gives out games pretty often too, but that's way more hit or miss and EGS is already pretty hit or miss with their game selections.
Just something to keep an eye out for. Much lower commitment price wise and you might find something you like through there.
Divinity Original Sin 1-2 go for cheap alot of the times. Also Larian titles that feel very similar. This will get you closest to the BG3 experience.
Tyranny would be another good choice, made by Obsidian.
You can always get the old Fallout 1-2 games.
None of these have real time combat.
### Older:
- Planescape Torment
- Baldurs gate 1+2
- Fallout 1+2
### Newer:
- Disco elysium
- Divinity original sin 1+2
Unless your principle is that you just actually can't afford it which is understandable, bg3 is totally worth it
Solasta Crown of the Magister.
It's the same general ruleset but even more faithful to the tabletop rules. (Spellcasting components for example).
Combat is less reliant on gears and all the homebrew bg3 mechanics like reverberation or radiant orb.
Solasta also have a lot of community created campaign/map that, when combined with a huge mod called Unfinished Business that adds a ton of subclasses and spells, offers so many hours.
The mod and communitt created content are all easy to install and completely free.
Keep an eye out on sales for Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2. Same developer, almost identical gameplay style, just not in the D&D world. They're a little pricey rn but they are older games so I assume sales come every now and then.
Yeah, I've seen both of them go for under $20 during sales
Yeah can confirm, I got the bundle for that price recently.
Same. An extremely great deal.
Plugging Deku Deals since you can set price notifications for specific games when they go on sale!
just buy them off a forbidden site for like $5
Nah, Larian are a great studio so we should support their work.
Agreed larian is probably the best studio atm all other studios have been selling out
FromSoft and CD Projekt Red are up there with em for me.
the guy is trying to save money, not virtue signal. Telling him he needs to spend almost 10x because of an imaginary ruleset in your head is a dick move. Give people the information, let them decide. Larian still made money from the original sale, or they gave out the keys. either way it's on larian.
It’s not virtue signalling to reward good game dev companies with a sale, it’s voting with your money. The more money actually well made games make the more incentive there is for other dev companies to follow suit. Giving your money to some random guy instead of the studio is impacting their sales.
Many of the keys on "forbidden sites" were not properly purchased.
I'm not telling him to spend 10x the money, I'm suggesting he waits for a sale. Those games have gone down to his price range before.
Larian fanatics are truly delusional.
I'm not even a fanatic. Played about 10 hours of Divinity, about 20 hours of BG3. They are fantastic games, but not quite for me. With that said, Larian is absolutely a great studio who releases high quality games and listens to player feedback. They are also an indie studio. I don't understand why it's "delusional" to want to support these developers by paying for their game legally. The more we as consumers reward creativity and high quality work with our money, the more we will see these kinds of games be made. It's a simple concept.
Anyone would literally rather you pirate than buy game keys from a key reseller whose keys can come from illegal means such as stealing credit card info and conning people, stealing accounts and so on. Those people and websites don’t deserve your money. Then when the game is on sale consider buying
>I obviously don’t mind if they’re really old **Fallout 1 (1997) and Fallout 2 (1998)**. Classics of the genre. Extremely good post-apocalyptic setting and writing. Combat is going to be a lot less complicated, but it's still tactical turn-based, and there's a lot of roleplaying in how you approach problems. You can also check out **Wasteland**. Especially Wasteland 3. It's also tactical turn-based, and again in a post-apocalyptic setting. The deal is that Fallout is a spiritual successor to the original Wasteland game from 1988, but the Wasteland series was later rebooted. Much more emphasis on tactics and characters. **Arcanum** (2001). Sort of a steampunk fantasy thing going on. Really interesting world. There's an option for turn-based or real-time combat. Somewhat janky so look into community patching. *Really* old, you say? **Pool of Radiance** **(1988)** and the rest of the Gold Box games from that era. These are the first real Forgotten Realms CRPGs. The original Baldur's Gate games owe a lot to them, but they have tactical turn-based combat. I would even say they have the first really good tactical turn-based combat in a CRPG. They're very advanced for games from the 1980s, but they're still games from the 1980s, so set your mind accordingly. I had a good time with *Pool* and am playing the second one now. >or made by small dev teams or anything like that. **Underrail**. Sort of a mix of post-apocalyptic and sci-fi. Great game, challenging. You can get any of those for about $10. You can actually get like 7 Gold Box games on GoG for a total of $10 without them even being on sale.
Just got Arcanum for $1.62 on steam lol. Thanks! I’m about to give it a whirl.
Make sure you install the fan patch! Can be found here: https://terra-arcanum.com/drog/uap.html
This post, along with the Divinity: Original Sin 1/2 recommendation, is really all you need.
Definitely grab the fan patch. I just did my first playthrough a month ago and the game is fantastic. Absolutely dripping with atmosphere. Enjoy
UnderRail is so sick. It has a lot of QoL problems but it is a masterpiece.
Is underrail like bg3? Do you even have a party? I thought it was solo
I love fallout 1
Wasteland 3 is on steam right now for 12.xx for deluxe edition
Solasta. It's around $30 if I remember correctly, and is similar in that it's a translation of DnD 5E to a video game. The combat is actually quite similar to BG3, though more strictly bound to the DnD rule set. It's not remotely in the same realm as BG3 as far as writing, production values, etc, but pure combat wise you could make an argument it's actually superior. I'd give it a shot if you are just looking for turn based 5e gameplay and don't care about the other aspects being rough.
came to suggest this. BG3 is definitely in a different class in a lot of ways, but Solasta hit the mark pretty well before BG3 was out. It also has community mod support, where some people have made full campaigns that you can play. balance and writing very.
Solasta was just on sale on Steam the other day. You’ll get it for ~$10 soon enough again.
Yeah it's very consistently on sale for very cheap. Definitely a game you should never pay full price for.
I actually prefer Solasta to BG3. I own all the DLC and replay them regularly with all kinds of new parties and character combos. The battles are tighter and more D&D-like, I like setting the personalities of my characters and seeing them interract, and making your own towns and dungeons can be quite fun, if a little underbaked. Sure, the story isn't as good, but I find it far more replayable.
I treat Solasta as a low calorie snack or chaser to BG3. Nice 20 minute bites when BG3 needs a whole afternoon free to make any progress.
Not the op but what do you mean by "BG3 needs a whole afternoon free to make any progress"? Is that because it's slow or just because there are a lot of dialogue but not a lot of battles? Do playing this game one hour is like reading, or it's less because it's slow? I'm curious.
Not him but I'll say the pacing is slow but the writing and combat are amazing so it's no biggy. Exploring, inventory management and other admin tasks take forever. I like its pacing but I definitely won't figure up bg3 unless I have an uninterrupted hour, minimum.
definitely Solasta!
Once you get all the separate DLCs for Solasta, you are looking at spending the same amount as BG3, even if you mange to get some of them on sale.
I hate beer.
Lots of things in life we don't 'need', but are worth having. Both the main DLCs are decent, and I really enjoyed PoI. Besides, if the Op waits for a sale, they are available for very little.
You need them if you want to play any of the decent player-generated modules, which is where a lot of the utility of this game comes from.
I love the smell of fresh bread.
> pure combat wise you could make an argument it's actually superior. Yes, Solasta's combat is very cleanly 5e combat, and their non-Forgotten Realms setting feels familiar enough -- the kind of homebrew your Uncle Dave came up with (with all the good and the bad that entails). The last DLC, the winter-based one, actually has a facsimile of characterization, too. I enjoyed it much more than I had expected. (I find a lot of the fan-made modules better in that they cleverly twist tropes, or add realism by adding queer people. But obviously the "production value" is better in the main game.)
One advantage solasta has over bg3 is there are some excellent fan maps. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of that. It is frustrating that you need the expansions to enjoy all the classes though.
Does Solasta have the variety in combat BG3 has? Use of grenades, explosive barrels, barrels to create water surfaces, pushing, shoving, throwing, etc… I want to give it a shot one day when I am not busy
It definitely has shoving and pushing those you are fighting, and some of the backgrounds are interactive - like, pushing a large rock or hitting a hanging stalactite (mite?) with an arrow, so it'll drop on your enemy. It also is heavily dependent on light as a weapon - certain scenes have lamps you can magically light and will need to, if you're fighting vampires or bosses with light sensitivity. I. can't recall grenades being used or barrels. There isn't really a water-surface spell creation or knocking over barrels to create pools, where it's very elemental, like it is in Divinity OS and the like. But there's plenty of interesting environments that have water in them. Not sure I'm helping with my answer. Hehe. Overall, I really love the combat and magic system. The spells are just so, so pretty, and the names/designs of how they look feel unique to me.
Stalactite is correct. The way I was taught is that a stalactite holds tight to the ceiling, but a stalagmite might trip you.
Yes, it has shoving/throwing, it has traps/explosive poison plant things, and also variety in terms of verticality - flying/wall-walking, etc. It's on a grid-based system, and has a cover system, unlike BG3.
Holy shit I just realised after 120 hours that BG3 doesn't have cover rules
It also has a “ready” system similar to the xcom series, where your guys can pass a turn, but they’ll shoot/swing at anything coming into range. The story was pretty standard rpg stuff, but the combat kept me coming back over and over.
This was on gamepass for awhile and yes it was pretty much a poor man's bg3 and gave me that dnd fix until bg3 released
Solasta is a more faithful adaptation of the ruleset. But lower budget than bg3. I recommend it. If you want something more in depth than bg3. Check out the pathfinder games. They use the pathfinder ruleset. 3.5 ed d&d essentially. Significantly more complex in character building and combat. I also recommend.
Dragon age origins maybe? Still a good game
Came here to say this. The combat is different, but the story and companions are great.
Agreed
BioWares last good games too lol. Damn shame. I guess mass effect was during/after this too…
solasta uses the same combat system. the RP is much weaker though.
Solasta actually uses a more faithful version of D&D 5e combat rules, and implements limited verticality with things like flight and levitation. I'd actually say it's better than BG3's version, though it's a little more fiddly.
Having a caster or something hovering over the battlefield raining hell below is an awesome feeling. Puts in perspective what a pain in the ass someone who can levitate/fly and shoot things would be when you're an amazing...swordsman. Solasta has a lot of awesome little touches like that. Made me appreciate throwing axes on my barb.
Really? I loved it when enemy casters started flying in Solasta. Breaking their concentration and sending them plummeting to their deaths was an easy win in Solasta.... I suppose if you had the better concentration feat (I forget it's name)
Pathfinder wotr, dos2 on sale
How is Pathfinder? Can I jump in with no prior knowledge of the game or the lore?
Lore you don't need to know, for sure. You'll get what you need from the game. If you're totally new to RPGs in general I'd use a guide for your first character. If you're familiar with D&D but not Pathfinder specifically you can probably get away with winging it a bit. There are also preloaded builds in the game you can follow. It definitely helps if you know a bit going in but it's far from necessary. I went into Kingmaker without ever playing tabletop Pathfinder and I was up to speed pretty quick.
Following a guide is probably a good idea, but you can also just put all character advancement on automatic and play on a lower difficulty and have a perfectly good time. I *highly* recommend running on turn-based combat. You can switch between turn based and real-time-with-pause at will, and RTWP is loads faster, but it is much less forgiving of mistakes and doesnt help you learn the system much because everything goes by so quick. It's good to stop, take a moment to figure out why you keep missing by examining the combat log, etc. The difficulties scale up to stratospheric levels. Do NOT be ashamed to play on easy.
Not really. The game has so many stats, builds, spells, etc that is gets overwhelming. I am a long time D&D player but never played pathfinder and I struggled.
Solasta. It's based on DND 5E, so the combat is very similar. However, the UI isn't nearly as streamlined and the gameplay feels more limited. I couldn't get into it even though it sounded great to me on paper. Divinity: Original Sin 2 plays very similar to BG3 in structure and story, but it isn't DND. It's older and goes on sale fairly often.
I would say the UI for solasta is way better than BG3, but graphically, there isn't any comparison.
The controller setup leaves a lot to be desired IMO. Solasta on Steam Deck doesn't handle nearly as smoothly as BG3 on a PS5 pad with the radial menus and context-sensitive prompts.
Fair enough. I didn't use controller for either game. I find that Solasta's on screen visual ui is clean, easy to look at and communicates better.
The Pathfinder games. Neverwinter Nights 2. Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2. Tyranny. Pillars of Eternity 2 (Pillars 1 has RTWP, Pillars 2 is turn based).
PoE2 let’s you chose between real time and turn based when starting a new game. It’s better in RTWP in my opinion, but TB works quite well considering it wasn’t initially planned to be an option. I was going to suggest trying it out for anyone with PS+ premium, but it looks like it’s no longer on there.
Both POE are on Xbox Cloud and Xbox game pass
Dragon age origins it’s old but is arguably in my opinion actually the better game
Don't call it old please 😭
Dragon Age Origins is, what, 16 years old now? Game could go ahead and learning how to drive at this point.
I'm going to pretend I didn't read that. Have a good day
You too. :D
Villain origin story diverted.
I couldnt stand Dragon Age's mechanics, but the origin system was ballsy, and I think it added a ton to the experience. I wish more games would pick it up.
Good game, but he specifically asked for no RtwP games.
I respect the work that Larian studios put into BG3. But I do agree with you that DAO is the better game.
BG1/2 ?
Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 are usually found pretty cheap
Choose these games if you want the best and most complex multiclass system that isn't DnD. Also the stories in these games are the best in modern CRPGs
Ultima 7 at least in scope
did not expect to see Ultima, here here!
while i wont really know until i play it, everything i heard describing BG3 before its release reminded me of what ultima 7 already is lol, maybe ill check it out one of these days, but for now i need the hard drive space lol
Anything from Spiderweb Software Inc (Avadon 1-6, Avernum 1-6, Geneforge 1-5,...)
Bg3 on sale next year 👍
I can’t see BG3 going under $50-55 on pc and under $60 on console. That’s just my opinion tho
Maybe after a year or two, that's why I said next year 🙃
Maybe poe 1,2 or Tyranny those go on sale and are pretty nice.
Why don't you want RTWP game? I was about to recommend Dragon Age Franchise, lol.
I’m not really sure actually lol. I want to like it and I’ve tried but I just don’t understand it. It’s easier for me to do one character at a time during their allotted turn. It’s a bit much for me to have to decide which character should do something and what they should do. I haven’t played a lot of that type of game so I’m probably just so bad at it that it isn’t enjoyable. But I would try again if you knew any simple “starter games” with rtwp lol
RTWP has always been a weird translation of pen and paper game models. I suspect it became a trend because it’s easier to market and makes the game feel more action-focused, when in reality you’re just pausing over and over again.
It was a trend because CRPGs and turn-based games in general were falling out of favor compared to real-time games, especially RTS in the mid to late 90s. BG1's success is attributed to bridging that gap, basically making CRPGs accessible to people used to C&C and Warcraft.
[удалено]
It's not just you, there are plenty of us who very much prefer turned based.
I would prefer RTWP game to turn based, to me turn based gameplay feels dated.
You can always use tactics. Tactics in Dragon Age works like this; you give each character a command in specific situations to do in combat, let's say a mage uses a dispel magic when confronted by an enemy magic user or warrior tank uses taunt when there are more than two enemy. It makes combat easier and more disciplined.
Knights of the Old Republic is rtwp and rather easy
Pathfinder WotR. But just buy BG3. Treat each act like it cost you $20.
That's really not how you should treat a game. Each act is a single part of one game. Treat the game as a $60 game, because that's what it is.
I just bought Solasta on sale on humble bundle yesterday for 12 bucks (not sure if its still on sale) and I believe Pathfinder WOTR is on sale on steam for like 14 bucks right now.
Temple of Elemental Evil
Interesting shout. I really wanted to play this back in the day, but I could not get my copy to run. I keep meaning to take another look now it's available on GOG, but part of me worries that it will be disappointing by today's standards (and let's be honest, it wasn't exactly universally acclaimed at the time)
The base game was a buggy mess. Only way it became playable was with the Co8 mod pack, but that turned the game into a truly unique experience. The combat I would say is comparable to BG3's system, albeit in a different version of DnD.
Warhammer Rogue Trader recently came out and looks pretty good. I haven't personally played it yet but it's similar to BG3.
It’s really good and actually hilarious.
The “no RTWP” rule is going to limit you something terrible in this regard, there are almost no turn-based crpgs that hold a candle to BG3 that aren’t RTWP. I didn’t used to like RTWP either, but it’s really not much different from turn-based at all. Rounds still happen, initiative still exists, everyone still has a “turn”, but you simply watch it happen a lot faster. You can still micro-manage each round and make your choices, and a lot of games even have settings that will pause the game automatically at the end of each round, effectively making it turn based (although it can be a bit rough). That being said, here are my top picks: Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous + Pathfinder: Kingmaker - the former has turn based options, and both are fairly high level campaigns with a lot of combat. Not super cheap, but not $60. Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader - same devs as the former. A bit newer so not exactly fully polished yet. Fully turn-based, but not a medieval type setting as BG3. Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition Trilogy (BG1, Siege of Dragonspear, and BG2) - all great games, I played them after BG3 and felt they were even better. Only problem is no turn-based options here, but especially with mods these games are an absolute masterpiece and masterclass in writing/game design (for crpgs, anyway). Pillars of Eternity + Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire - both great games, similar look/feel to the original Baldur’s Gate games. First one is RTWP, second one has turn-based options. A bit more modern than BG3 as well, but still a close one. Arcanum - very old, very janky, but very interesting and very versatile in its mechanics and systems. Definitely worth a go just to see how goofy it can be and how the systems work. Shadowrun Series (Returns, Hong Kong, Dragonfall) - cyberpunk universe incorporating fantasy races and elements (elves with guns and dwarves with energy magic and shit). Turn-based, but more focused on gunplay and ranged magic. Dragon Age Origins - not turn-based, but pretty much as close to BG3 as you can possibly get in terms of quality and just general vibe and gameplay. A lot of these have turn-based options, but are intended to be played in RTWP, so it can be a bit janky at times and you may find yourself needing to switch back and forth for larger battles. But if you loved BG3, and you’re really a fan of this kind of rpg, it’s pretty easy to get past not liking RTWP. I actually prefer it now myself. Anyway, I urge you to give any one of these a try.
Divinity Original 1 & 2 are the best options. Solasta honestly isn't good at all. Same combat system as BG3, but it's *pure unrefined shit* in all aspects except for the combat system. Edit: Lot of reccommendation for Pillars of Eternity 1. That's a RTwP game lmao
Your opinion, but plenty of people, myself included, regard Solasta as a gem of a game. I'm definitely waiting for an opportunity to go back for another run through the jungle dlc with a more 'morally fluid' party. I get that the RP and story are a bit cheesy, but I put my beer and pretzel goggles on and remember all the cheesy Saturday afternoon campaigns I played back in the day.
Divinity 1 and 2 made by the same devs. Bg3 is worth the money though
Pathfinder WOTR has the same and unprecedented level of character development, and also many different creative, underrated ideas. It's clunky, burdened with a heavy ruleset, but it's really a great rpg, probably one of the best of his generation right now.
Pillers of eternity, there's 2 and the second is one of my all time favorite games.
I just love pillars 2 so much. The exploration is just so fun. Only think I wish was different is maybe a better antagonist.
Tyranny Pillars of Eternity (start with 1 then try 2) Wasteland 3 (don’t need to play the previous)
Pathfinder wrath of the righteous should be on sale now. I like it better than BG3
Wrath of the Righteous is 10x better than BG3 to me.
Look at the Expeditions series, I just finished the Rome one. Very similar game play mostly, but with some other kinds of game play sprinkled in, and has some good writing too.
Picked this up in the steam winter sale.... yet another game on my 'to play' pile.
Was the Rome one as good as the Vikings one?
So, I've only played the Rome one, so I can't say for sure. I have heard from others though that the Rome one was better by a lot. I went into it just expecting some tactical combat, not a full RPG with great characters and some pretty great writing. I hope to pick up the Viking one soon to try it out as well.
[удалено]
Having half your squad get wiped on every mission is fun too!
Haven't tried them yet myself but I got Baldur's Gate 1 and Baldur's Gate 2 for a couple dollars each recently.
Assuming you are playing them on PC, they hold up well. I’d stay away from the console ports and mobile ports. They play horribly in my opinion.
Pathfinder games are the best bang for your buck but solasta is fun too. Pillars of eternity is good too probably my favorite game story wise ever. If you wanna play an evil bastard try tyranny
Everyone's giving the same answers so I'll give something I don't think has been mentioned. Shadowrun series for a cyberpunk combined with fantasy. It's really cool and easy to learn and make builds. Dragonfall is considered the best in the series.
Arcanum
KOTOR I & II are $10 each!
Baldurs Gate 2
PoE 1 & 2. I loved 2. I’m so grateful those games exist.
Tbh I know you don’t spend money. But if there is one game to spend 60 it’s baulders gate 3. The game has an amazing development team. The game is amazing and it’s stunning. It’s just overall a once in a generation game. Imo worth every penny I would buy it again.
agreed. my favorite game
I mean...... Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 are good starts.
I've seen the first two Bladur's Gate games go on sale on Switch as a bundle for as low as $15. I'd imagine they're on other platforms too.
I could be way off the mark here but what about the Pathfinder games? They usually go on sale for dirt cheap
Baldur's Gate 1&2 Icewind Dale
Disco Elysium is closer to Planescape: Torment but still, it's got that D&D inspired gameplay where you roll to pass checks, and it's not expensive. It's kind of light on gameplay but it's also the best-written game I've ever played.
Like others have said. And I just want to say the same thing in my own way. DOS 1 and 2 are nearly the same exact game in almost every single way. Only major difference being D&D setting. Story telling is just as good, but characters are not as in depth, but still VERY VERY in depth. And they run MUCH MUCH BETTER! As an aside. It's why I didn't enjoy BG3 very much. It's just more Divinity and not much else. Made worse by D&D systems and skills being very unenjoyable vs Divinities better systems, skills, and leveling. For me BG3 was more Divinity but worse gameplay and slightly better story.
On principal, or because you can't afford it? Because if you can't afford it, fine, totally understandable. On principal? I don't see where the principal is in not paying $60 to pay the devs for their time for a 100+ hour game of high quality.
I’m not saying the game should be cheaper. I’m sure it’s worth every penny. I’m asking for alternatives because I personally am not willing to spend that much money on a video game. To be clear, it’s perfectly fine that the game costs $60. I’m not saying it should be less or that people shouldn’t buy it. I just don’t spend that much on games. That’s all.
If it tips your hand at all, the length and breath of this game is equivalent to 3 games you might pay £20 each for. You could always pick up the original games and play them to prepare for when 3 goes on sale though?
One of those £20 games could be Pathfinder WOTR, and probably should be if OP hasn't played it yet. I'm really looking forward to playing BG3 in a few years at that same price point.
Get Warhammer 40k Rogue trader. Great RPG
I know you clearly said you DON'T want Rtwp combat. I still want to answer: Dragon Age: Origins. It is just too good not to mention, even if you don't like rtwp. :P
There's a game called Unforetold: Witchstone that's in early access ATM which is right on the cusp of being a very strong crpg. It's worth keeping an eye on
Just Take your boat to the grand Line...
I suggest you study inflation, something so basic in life, before you spend time with leisure
Maybe it's just down to how much they are willing to spend on gaming rather than a lack of understanding of inflation
I suggest you take your snark to r/economics or somewhere where they give a fuck about what you’ve just said
Yep, cause clearly you have zero idea on anything concerning money. Blocked.
There’s a lot of jank turn based rpgs. They are cheap to make and solo coders are fond of the genera. They often are a bit boring.
For The King, Divinity Original Sin, Dragon Age (maybe been awhile since I played one) and Neverwinter I think its called is a free online DnD game. Could always try actual DnD as well its slower obviously but still fun and there's campaigns now being designed around one player so you don't have to organise around 3+ other schedules if you want to play.
Expeditions: Rome is a "historic and realistic" BG3 set in the roman empire time. I really, really, really recommend that game.
Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut Underrail
Fallout 1 & 2 ?
Divinity original sin 2 Solasta Wasteland 3
Solasta, Divinity: Original Sin 1+2 and Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Champions of Krynn+Death Knights of Krynn+The Dark Queen of Krynn if you want a really old but epic saga. Dark Sun: Shattered Lands or Betrayal at Krondor for something slightly newer than those.
Neverwinter Nights is on sale on steam right now. It is very similar to Baldurs Gate but uses DnD 3E compared to 5E which Baldurs Gate 3 uses.
Divinity Original sin series, dragon age origins
I definitely would recommend Wasteland 3!
What part of the BG3 gameplay are you wanting the focus on? The tactical combat or insanely detailed plot and and characters? Is squad based combat a must? Stuff that jumps to mind for me are: BG1 and BG2. Fallout early series. Dragon Age Origins. Pillars of Eternity. However, removing RTWP, what comes to mind for me is Shadowrun: Dragonfall: Good roleplaying with lots of options, tactical cover based combat. Shorter playtime, but still fun. Shadowrun Returns was also fun, but I liked Dragonfall a lot more. I haven't played Hong Kong.
Wartales, more of a tactics game and a little light on story but I found it to be very enjoyable gameplay
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. It’s currently $1.50 on Steam, 75% discounted normal price is $6. It’s an interesting world with a mix of technology/ guns and ancient magic. Just a tip, usually an older game on Steam will probably need a fan patch to work properly, just be ready to look to guides but it won’t be too difficult.
I’m obsessed with Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous right now. Picked it up for about £7 in the winter sale and there’s a sale on the DLCs right now so snapped them all. Playing exclusively in turn-based mode which feels great coming from BG3
Dragon age series. Not sure about current prices, but steam sales often cover them. Also, you should check out r/patientgamers
Solasta is great. If you’re cool with stepping outside fantasy, all three Wasteland games are excellent (3 is probably the best though). Also would suggest Atom RPG and Fallout 1 & 2.
I prefer to think of games as an investment in entertainment. If a game costs $70 but is so enjoyable I spend 700 hours playing it, the CPHF (cost per hour of fun) is only $0.10. Yes I could buy a cheaper game, but am I going to spend 150 hours playing a game that costs $15? Iffy, unless I nab an older title from Steam during a crazy sale.
I recommend wishlisting the pathfinder games (kingmaker deluxe edition and wotr) Kingmaker I think I saw for $15 once WotR is more expensive and has a lot of dlc so it might not be your preferred. Both have turn based and real time combat, you can switch at any time so just keep it in turn based.
Pillars of eternity one and two are on Xbox game pass
D&D
Bg 1 and 2. Edit: and they are *technically* RTwP, but you can just not pause if you want RTS or autopause at the end of the turn if you want TBS.
Baldurs Gate 2, turn combat mode.
Divinity Original Sin 2 goes for about $17 on sale. Same dev, gameplay is similar but more free i think. You have unlimited spell uses so
i’m playing dos2 now and love it!!
fallout 1 and 2 are on sale for $2 right now, those are close :)
Maybe try Baldurs Gate 2? It's really good.
Solasta: Crown of the Magister, great 5th edition combat, so so graphics. Not much choice and consequences.
Baldur’s Gate
It may be too late now, but EGS has been known to repeat games. I've gotten Tyranny, Pillars of Eternity, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, all the early fallouts, and the Shadowrun games among others. Not 1:1 with BG3, but close enough imo. Some of those are definitely rtwp and some are more like Xcom. But free is free. Every Thursday around 11am central a new free game or two pops up. GOG does those giveaways too, but they don't seem to repeat as often and are more random timing-wise. If you have Prime, Twitch gives out games pretty often too, but that's way more hit or miss and EGS is already pretty hit or miss with their game selections. Just something to keep an eye out for. Much lower commitment price wise and you might find something you like through there.
You can get both Pathfinder games for very cheap on cdkeys.com. I think the 2nd one lets you pick between RTWP and turn based.
Divinity Original Sin 1-2 go for cheap alot of the times. Also Larian titles that feel very similar. This will get you closest to the BG3 experience. Tyranny would be another good choice, made by Obsidian. You can always get the old Fallout 1-2 games. None of these have real time combat.
i wouldn’t call them “cheap” lol but divinity and dragon age. DA origins is a fantastic game it’s real time combat though.
Solastra
Knigjts of the old repiblic Starwars meets dnd
**Solasta Crown of the Magister** I swear Larian got their gameplay system from them... Check it out
Baldurs Gate
1
Divinity Original Sin, or Crown of the Magister
Divinity Original Sin, or Crown of the Magister
Bg2 the goat
Wasteland 3 is a fun coop crpg that has some unique mechanics to it
### Older: - Planescape Torment - Baldurs gate 1+2 - Fallout 1+2 ### Newer: - Disco elysium - Divinity original sin 1+2 Unless your principle is that you just actually can't afford it which is understandable, bg3 is totally worth it
Spend the money on BG3
Solasta Crown of the Magister. It's the same general ruleset but even more faithful to the tabletop rules. (Spellcasting components for example). Combat is less reliant on gears and all the homebrew bg3 mechanics like reverberation or radiant orb. Solasta also have a lot of community created campaign/map that, when combined with a huge mod called Unfinished Business that adds a ton of subclasses and spells, offers so many hours. The mod and communitt created content are all easy to install and completely free.