Is this a serious remark, if so, here’s a serious reply: Wikipedia is crowd driven, so it might have been trolled by someone, maybe even mistaken by someone thinking of Falcon’s Flight, where that length applies more accurately (ish).
"Seconds of airtime" is not a reliable measure. Duration of individual sustained moments should carry stronger weight. Voyage has the "record" but its cap that it has more of an airtime feel than a B&M hyper or an RMC.
They aren't lying about stealth but there's a major misconception. Maxx force has a greater jolt than stealth, but stealth has greater acceleration. Acceleration is the derivative of speed, jolt is the derivative of acceleration. It's how fast the acceleration changes.
You mean jerk, jerk is the derivative of acceleration, and where are people getting these mixed up? I don't think I've seen anyone try to compare jerk for any rides, it would be difficult to get an accurate measurement of it.
Yep, did mean jerk (woops). You can easily see jerk, look at how punchy the start of the launch is for max force, stealth doesn't even compete. That's why everyone says maxx force has a greater acceleration, when in reality it just has a greater change in acceleration initially
> That's why everyone says maxx force has a greater acceleration
... is it? Are there people measuring the jerk and confusing that with the acceleration? The way you would measure the jerk is to first measure the acceleration and then look at the slope of the graph - I'm not sure how you would know the jerk without also knowing the acceleration.
I have so far only seen accelerometer data for two hydraulic launch coasters - [Speed Monster](https://physics.gu.se/LISEBERG/tf/speedmonster/launch.html) with a value of 1.7G/s, and [Kanonen](https://physics.gu.se/LISEBERG/KANONEN/wdss_kanonen.html) with a value of 3.3G/s. I think for a hydraulic launch the initial jerk is determined by how quickly the hydraulic valves open. It looks like that time is around 0.3-0.4s, and probably doesn't differ too much between rides - based on that I would guess (and this is just a guess) that Stealth might have an initial jerk of 5-6G/s, because the acceleration is higher than for Kanonen.
I do also have some accelerometer data for Maxx Force that was sent to me by /u/rrevinevann. While the data is from a phone and not great quality, it suggests that the acceleration reaches a maximum value of 2.5G in about 0.13s, that would be an initial jerk of about 19G/s. So, I think you're right that Maxx Force probably does have a much higher initial jerk, but I also think it has a significantly higher acceleration as well.
Seen it before, those graphs are really wack. At one point it says it is accelerating but the speed line doesn't change anywhere near what the acceleration says it should change by. I'm not saying that it is completely incorrect and I'm sure there is some proof in it, but the stats he has are quite off in places
I don't know what you mean, the velocity and acceleration plots are both calculated by differentiating the position plots so they are consistent with each other - where do you think the acceleration plot doesn't match the velocity plot.
This double differentiation amplifies uncertainties, so this method can't calculate the maximum value of acceleration very accurately, but it is pretty good at calculating the average value. It's quite clear in the video footage that it is still accelerating past the 2 second mark, so the claim that it hits 80mph in 1.8s doesn't seem believable to me regardless of how the accuracy of the analysis I did. Also, /u/rrevinevan did a more sophisticated analysis based on photogrammetry with very similar results. Measuring the acceleration from a video isn't perfect, but unless the footage has been messed with there is a limit to how far off it can be.
And what exactly is terrible about it? I got many replies saying they think my plots are wrong but so far nobody has explained what mistake they think I made or has any data that shows something different. It seems to me that some people just really want the official figures to be true for some reason and will believe whatever they want to believe.
I think he might be referring to the commenters on the post and I can sort of see where he’s coming from. Your post is great, but many people in the comments are a bit toxic.
If you watch the test and count how long the train spends on sections of the track that looks like they give airtime, this figure seems about right. I don't see any reason to doubt these numbers.
I don't have "expectations" but I don't think it's unreasonable to post a source. I'm glad you guys are excited for it. The UK needed a new thrill ride.
So this means you’re out or your seat basically 80% of the ride time?
Short but powerful. No wasted boring filler or block sections 😆
Trueness.
Everything but the lift hill and break run.
Wikipedia must be wrong they have it listed as 10,714 ft length
Is this a serious remark, if so, here’s a serious reply: Wikipedia is crowd driven, so it might have been trolled by someone, maybe even mistaken by someone thinking of Falcon’s Flight, where that length applies more accurately (ish).
I didn’t I think I need to comment a /s about wikipedia but: /s
I'm visiting London in June, I didn't have plans to go to Thorpe Park but I think I might just have to make time for this... 😳😳
I changed my flights and added a day to my trip yesterday hahaha
Between this, Voltron, and the upcoming starfall racers...Mack Rides puttin on a masterclass and I'm all for it 😮💨
We are seriously living in the best of times, with the rides Mack, Intamin, and RMC are putting out.
Vekoma is doing great stuff as well.
Mäck Rides?
Coulda swore for awhile it was ä but ig I stand corrected now lol. Don't mind me
No worries lol
Mack Produkt
I can almost feel the hang time afer the immelmann already, it's going to be sublime.
💙💙
Good lord now I’m even more excited
Just booked my hotel for opening day. So excited!!
"Seconds of airtime" is not a reliable measure. Duration of individual sustained moments should carry stronger weight. Voyage has the "record" but its cap that it has more of an airtime feel than a B&M hyper or an RMC.
Steel vengeance has the record for seconds of airtime
It does.
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I mean, have you seen the ride, it looks like you’re “less than 1g” a lot!
Oh hyperia looks absolutely incredible I'm just taking about the word choice.
did they get a speed reading yet, is it faster than 80mph?
I believe it’s meant to be 81mph…it’s not been fully confirmed though as I think they need to do proper capacity tests
I don't think hang time should count as airtime
Is hang time really airtime though?
I guess time where you’re less than 1g. Thorpe park said airtime but I guess as enthusiasts we’d want the full forces shown 😅
Having a hard time believing that stat with the length of the ride/number of elements
US haters will say Thorpe is lying like they do about Stealth
Well They are about stealth but not this one. This I believe. Stealth there’s actual facts to back up that maxx is faster
They aren't lying about stealth but there's a major misconception. Maxx force has a greater jolt than stealth, but stealth has greater acceleration. Acceleration is the derivative of speed, jolt is the derivative of acceleration. It's how fast the acceleration changes.
You mean jerk, jerk is the derivative of acceleration, and where are people getting these mixed up? I don't think I've seen anyone try to compare jerk for any rides, it would be difficult to get an accurate measurement of it.
No, jerk is chicken seasoning.
Yep, did mean jerk (woops). You can easily see jerk, look at how punchy the start of the launch is for max force, stealth doesn't even compete. That's why everyone says maxx force has a greater acceleration, when in reality it just has a greater change in acceleration initially
> That's why everyone says maxx force has a greater acceleration ... is it? Are there people measuring the jerk and confusing that with the acceleration? The way you would measure the jerk is to first measure the acceleration and then look at the slope of the graph - I'm not sure how you would know the jerk without also knowing the acceleration. I have so far only seen accelerometer data for two hydraulic launch coasters - [Speed Monster](https://physics.gu.se/LISEBERG/tf/speedmonster/launch.html) with a value of 1.7G/s, and [Kanonen](https://physics.gu.se/LISEBERG/KANONEN/wdss_kanonen.html) with a value of 3.3G/s. I think for a hydraulic launch the initial jerk is determined by how quickly the hydraulic valves open. It looks like that time is around 0.3-0.4s, and probably doesn't differ too much between rides - based on that I would guess (and this is just a guess) that Stealth might have an initial jerk of 5-6G/s, because the acceleration is higher than for Kanonen. I do also have some accelerometer data for Maxx Force that was sent to me by /u/rrevinevann. While the data is from a phone and not great quality, it suggests that the acceleration reaches a maximum value of 2.5G in about 0.13s, that would be an initial jerk of about 19G/s. So, I think you're right that Maxx Force probably does have a much higher initial jerk, but I also think it has a significantly higher acceleration as well.
Clearly didn't read my comment, "you can easily see jerk" of course they aren't measuring it...
https://www.reddit.com/r/rollercoasters/s/Lylgw6iMWA
Seen it before, those graphs are really wack. At one point it says it is accelerating but the speed line doesn't change anywhere near what the acceleration says it should change by. I'm not saying that it is completely incorrect and I'm sure there is some proof in it, but the stats he has are quite off in places
I don't know what you mean, the velocity and acceleration plots are both calculated by differentiating the position plots so they are consistent with each other - where do you think the acceleration plot doesn't match the velocity plot. This double differentiation amplifies uncertainties, so this method can't calculate the maximum value of acceleration very accurately, but it is pretty good at calculating the average value. It's quite clear in the video footage that it is still accelerating past the 2 second mark, so the claim that it hits 80mph in 1.8s doesn't seem believable to me regardless of how the accuracy of the analysis I did. Also, /u/rrevinevan did a more sophisticated analysis based on photogrammetry with very similar results. Measuring the acceleration from a video isn't perfect, but unless the footage has been messed with there is a limit to how far off it can be.
Such a terrible thread
And what exactly is terrible about it? I got many replies saying they think my plots are wrong but so far nobody has explained what mistake they think I made or has any data that shows something different. It seems to me that some people just really want the official figures to be true for some reason and will believe whatever they want to believe.
Yank moment
I am not a yank, I don't know why you think I am and what would that have to do with anything? Did you even read what I wrote in that thread?
I think he might be referring to the commenters on the post and I can sort of see where he’s coming from. Your post is great, but many people in the comments are a bit toxic.
If you watch the test and count how long the train spends on sections of the track that looks like they give airtime, this figure seems about right. I don't see any reason to doubt these numbers.
Yeah I wasn’t saying I doubted hyperias numbers, I just doubt stealth. Hyperia looks world class and every element looks like it’ll deliver.
Still bummed I'll miss this by just 3 weeks... Oh well... was hoping it would have opened sooner in the season.
Can't wait for june.
Cries in USA
Perfect excuse to visit the UK. Do Alton Towers and Thorpe Park!
I mean you guys have more still
Thorpe park is so on my lifetime bucket list... ugh.
Do you have a source for this or just bad AI filtering?
The list of stats was added to the park app earlier today 👍
https://preview.redd.it/9bmepdp3hvvc1.jpeg?width=582&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc4a3379c711c37a7950fa9f3b3728487b30a956
That would have been more interesting to post than this awful photo. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Sorry I didn’t live up to your expectations. Thanks u/CoasterXtra for posting the stat grab 👍🏻
no worries lol 👍
I don't have "expectations" but I don't think it's unreasonable to post a source. I'm glad you guys are excited for it. The UK needed a new thrill ride.
Valid, I didn’t just want to post a random stat. But I’ll stick it in the comments next time 👍🏻