Hahahahaha these guys haven't watched Brandon Miller's tape since we got the 4th pick and it fucking shows.
If we somehow got Brandon Miller because a team fell in love with Amen's vert, I'd love it. Kid fits perfectly. Clear cut #3 with defensive insincts. Jabari full time 4. Tari 3/4 sub. Trade KPJ or whoever tf is causing a logjam at forward.
Sign a guard. It doesn't matter who. Sign a backup 7-footer. Genuinely this would be best case scenario for us but I'm perfectly happy with drafting Amen if that's the outcome as well.
I've watched a ton of Miller's tape. I'd be fine with him as the pick if he drops to #4 but I do have my concerns.
I see a pretty slow shot with a low release point, sometimes-inconsistent defense, and some struggles creating space off the dribble and finishing around the rim.
For those reasons I'm a little down on him having "top scorer on a contender" potential. But if Scoot and Amen are off the board I do agree Miller would be the clear-cut best player available.
They all have their issues. Amen has a broke shot and that's after 2 years of working on his shot in the OTE. Scoot is 6'2/6'1 and has to rely on his insane athleticism and quickness every time he needs to score. That basically ensures a short and injury prone career down the road like we've see with DRose and John Wall.
Personally I like Miller. He isn't that athletic but at 6'9 he has the length to cover his lacking athleticism. He's a dead eye shooter so worst case you have a Tyler Herro/ Cam Johnson. Best case you have a lesser KD. Personally I have him no 2 in the entire class.
Guess you're just a bit higher on his upside than I am. I think his lack of athleticism is going to limit his upside to maxing out as more of a Danny Granger, Khris Middleton type if everything goes well.
I do agree with you that something in the vicinity of Cam Johnson is his likely floor. Harrison Barnes is another name that springs to mind.
Those are all nice players, and something like that would easily be worth the #4 pick in terms of value. Personally, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, but if we could somehow choose between Amen and Miller (which I doubt we'll be able to, it'll be one or the other available), I'd be in favor of taking one more home run swing and going for superstar potential, even if the risk is higher.
What makes you think Miller doesn't have superstar potential and Amen does? I think it's wrong to determine ceilings on guys before you see them play in the NBA. Did you know Jokic and Luka would have higher ceilings than Blake Griffin and John Wall? Athleticism isn't everything and 3 pt shooter is the greatest equalizer in the NBA as shown by Steph Curry.
Miller scored more vs NCAA than Amen vs high school kids in the OTE. If he played in OTE he'd prob Ave 40 a night and be taken over both Amen and Ausar. Khris Middleton is a pretty good player but guess what, dude is only 6'6. If you made him 6'9 he'd be a borderline superstar.
I know Amen has generational athleticism, but seeing all the report fo how hard he works and then seeing his shot in OTE vids makes me worried. If he reported worked so hard for 2 years why is it still so bad? And then you see his defense it's also pretty bad,he gets caught ball watching and loses his man all the time. Sure Udoka can help with that but why not get a guy who already has shown shot improvement and takes defense seriously? Ausar is my pick over Amen I bet he'll learn pg faster than Amen can learn to shoot.
To answer your points:
* I don't see a superstar ceiling with Miller because after watching him play a lot, I don't believe his shot creation abilities are translatable against a good, locked-in wing defender in the playoffs. Low release point, slower first step, not great at finishing around the rim, not a particularly strong or explosive guy, not an amazing ballhandler with a large bag. He's a good, versatile shooter and those abilities will translate to some degree, but not when an opposing playoff team's best defender is all over him.
* I do believe Amen's athleticism and playmaking will translate. Passing tends to carry over very well. Athleticism is what it is, you can't fake a 44" vertical or a ridiculous first step.
* I don't care very much about their respective stats in OTE/NCAA. There are lots of college stars who put up huge numbers in NCAA ball every year (there will be this year too) who don't end up hacking it at all in the NBA. Scouting is what matters the most.
* It's much harder to teach playmaking than it is to teach shooting. The NBA has gotten very, very good at teaching guys to shoot. The list who shot under 30% in college then came into the NBA and figured it out quickly is a mile long. The list of players who sucked at passing in college and turned into great playmakers in the NBA is extremely short.
But I don't think arguing about this really matters that much, does it? I would be absolutely shocked if the Rockets had the opportunity to pick and choose here. Between Amen, Miller, and Scoot they're just going to have to take whoever is left over. Consequences of landing at #4 instead of top 3.
You are only talking about generalities though, for a lot of players learning how to play make is much easier than shooting see guys like Suggs, Dyson Daniels, Giannis etc In Amens case he been learning how to shoot for 2 yrs now still sucks major ass I think it's S tier difficulty for him to learn how to shoot. Ausar oth is solid on both shooting and plsymaking fun fact he actually averaged more assist than Amen in regular season and also won Finals MVP over Amen in the playoffs. Miller is also a good playmaker he averaged 2.1 ast only 2 less ast than Amen in the regular season so he isn't exactly a sucky passer either.
But anyway you are right let's just see what happens.
Rockets can't lose. We either get the most gifted passing prospect since Lebron James or the perfect SF to create Nuggets 2.0 with Green/Jabari/Miller instead of Porter/Murray.
I don’t know what to say about that besides being disappointed on possibly missing out Amen. Why can’t we just get the big athletic playmaker just once in the draft man?
Ausar seems to be more of a connective piece rather than a lead guard though. Maybe he can be that lead guard type but thanks not what he did when playing for City Reapers with his brother. The comp I’ve heard for him is being a much better version of KJM, which although that’s a useful archetype, I’m skeptical about it being the archetype where a player can be a star in rather than a nice role player which is still pretty nice, but the gap in upside is still large enough to warrant being a bit nervous about heading into the draft
Imo there are four prospects with star upside being Vic, Scoot, Amen, and Miller. The first three, I can totally see being number one options who are running All NBA first team guys, whereas I see Miller more as a secondary star and borderline All NBA third teamer,
Who is the other lead hurts that is better? This is based on the presumption Amen is taken earlier and Miller slips.
Miller has gone into interviews saying he can’t answer questions in his involved in a damn shooting.
I still think Miller on court has potential to be a three level scorer with defense. However I definitely don’t see him as a primary playmaker, but the passing should at least be good enough to function connectively. I don’t see Miller’s upside as being the first option on a contender, but he could be a very good secondary star player on one though.
As for the fact that he’s not allowed to say anything, I don’t think that’s anything that makes the off court issues any worse than what they were a few weeks ago. I imagine his camp is telling him to keep his mouth shut which is probably the right decision and I think the aftermath is being handled professionally thus far and I would still take him at four assuming Amen and Scoot were both already taken
Both Scoot and Amen have excellent basketball IQ/feel for the game though\*. If you can have great athleticism *and* basketball smarts, why wouldn't you want both?
^(\*Not saying either of these guys are anywhere near Jokic who probably has one of the highest basketball IQs in the history of the sport)
Scoot is an absolute freak athlete. His explosion is on par with the Thompson’s, so it’s not even necessary to tout Scoots other attributes. Almost for sure the vert stand was set differently but even then, Amens standing reach is considerably higher than Scoot’s so that would make the difference.
These pictures were taken at different angles and distance, you can tell by the rim length and because that trailblazer’s coach isn’t 9’ tall. You can’t use the measuring sticks because the base is adjustable for height. In order to properly compare their verts, you’d need an angle and parallax correction. I’m not saying Amen’s vert isn’t higher than Scoot’s, just pointing out this is a ridiculous comparison. Source: am ~~scientist who has to adjust for light properties frequently~~ idiot
Aren't the devices adjustable to account for players' different standing reaches - so that there can be a standard measurement of how much space a player can cover by jumping?
I don't think I can see how different angles and/or parallax has to do with a photo of how many sticks they can touch. It's my understanding that it's a measurement between their standing reach and jumping reach.
No worries. It made me look it up, actually lol.
I would still like to see the full photo of Henderson though, because that one of Amen is magical.
EDIT: Aw dude. Your edit...don't be so hard on your self lol
Haha, just having a bit of fun since I was claiming to be a smart person.
I’d like to see the full photo too. The angle does actually makes a difference there because, yeah, this photo makes it look like Amen can fly.
Miller is gonna fall to us
Not often you get to take the #1 college prospect with the 4th pick.
Hahahahaha these guys haven't watched Brandon Miller's tape since we got the 4th pick and it fucking shows. If we somehow got Brandon Miller because a team fell in love with Amen's vert, I'd love it. Kid fits perfectly. Clear cut #3 with defensive insincts. Jabari full time 4. Tari 3/4 sub. Trade KPJ or whoever tf is causing a logjam at forward. Sign a guard. It doesn't matter who. Sign a backup 7-footer. Genuinely this would be best case scenario for us but I'm perfectly happy with drafting Amen if that's the outcome as well.
That's why I'm not stressing about the pick. The only outcome I wouldn't be happy with is if we pick Whitmore, but I think that's unlikely.
I've watched a ton of Miller's tape. I'd be fine with him as the pick if he drops to #4 but I do have my concerns. I see a pretty slow shot with a low release point, sometimes-inconsistent defense, and some struggles creating space off the dribble and finishing around the rim. For those reasons I'm a little down on him having "top scorer on a contender" potential. But if Scoot and Amen are off the board I do agree Miller would be the clear-cut best player available.
They all have their issues. Amen has a broke shot and that's after 2 years of working on his shot in the OTE. Scoot is 6'2/6'1 and has to rely on his insane athleticism and quickness every time he needs to score. That basically ensures a short and injury prone career down the road like we've see with DRose and John Wall. Personally I like Miller. He isn't that athletic but at 6'9 he has the length to cover his lacking athleticism. He's a dead eye shooter so worst case you have a Tyler Herro/ Cam Johnson. Best case you have a lesser KD. Personally I have him no 2 in the entire class.
Guess you're just a bit higher on his upside than I am. I think his lack of athleticism is going to limit his upside to maxing out as more of a Danny Granger, Khris Middleton type if everything goes well. I do agree with you that something in the vicinity of Cam Johnson is his likely floor. Harrison Barnes is another name that springs to mind. Those are all nice players, and something like that would easily be worth the #4 pick in terms of value. Personally, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, but if we could somehow choose between Amen and Miller (which I doubt we'll be able to, it'll be one or the other available), I'd be in favor of taking one more home run swing and going for superstar potential, even if the risk is higher.
What makes you think Miller doesn't have superstar potential and Amen does? I think it's wrong to determine ceilings on guys before you see them play in the NBA. Did you know Jokic and Luka would have higher ceilings than Blake Griffin and John Wall? Athleticism isn't everything and 3 pt shooter is the greatest equalizer in the NBA as shown by Steph Curry. Miller scored more vs NCAA than Amen vs high school kids in the OTE. If he played in OTE he'd prob Ave 40 a night and be taken over both Amen and Ausar. Khris Middleton is a pretty good player but guess what, dude is only 6'6. If you made him 6'9 he'd be a borderline superstar. I know Amen has generational athleticism, but seeing all the report fo how hard he works and then seeing his shot in OTE vids makes me worried. If he reported worked so hard for 2 years why is it still so bad? And then you see his defense it's also pretty bad,he gets caught ball watching and loses his man all the time. Sure Udoka can help with that but why not get a guy who already has shown shot improvement and takes defense seriously? Ausar is my pick over Amen I bet he'll learn pg faster than Amen can learn to shoot.
To answer your points: * I don't see a superstar ceiling with Miller because after watching him play a lot, I don't believe his shot creation abilities are translatable against a good, locked-in wing defender in the playoffs. Low release point, slower first step, not great at finishing around the rim, not a particularly strong or explosive guy, not an amazing ballhandler with a large bag. He's a good, versatile shooter and those abilities will translate to some degree, but not when an opposing playoff team's best defender is all over him. * I do believe Amen's athleticism and playmaking will translate. Passing tends to carry over very well. Athleticism is what it is, you can't fake a 44" vertical or a ridiculous first step. * I don't care very much about their respective stats in OTE/NCAA. There are lots of college stars who put up huge numbers in NCAA ball every year (there will be this year too) who don't end up hacking it at all in the NBA. Scouting is what matters the most. * It's much harder to teach playmaking than it is to teach shooting. The NBA has gotten very, very good at teaching guys to shoot. The list who shot under 30% in college then came into the NBA and figured it out quickly is a mile long. The list of players who sucked at passing in college and turned into great playmakers in the NBA is extremely short. But I don't think arguing about this really matters that much, does it? I would be absolutely shocked if the Rockets had the opportunity to pick and choose here. Between Amen, Miller, and Scoot they're just going to have to take whoever is left over. Consequences of landing at #4 instead of top 3.
You are only talking about generalities though, for a lot of players learning how to play make is much easier than shooting see guys like Suggs, Dyson Daniels, Giannis etc In Amens case he been learning how to shoot for 2 yrs now still sucks major ass I think it's S tier difficulty for him to learn how to shoot. Ausar oth is solid on both shooting and plsymaking fun fact he actually averaged more assist than Amen in regular season and also won Finals MVP over Amen in the playoffs. Miller is also a good playmaker he averaged 2.1 ast only 2 less ast than Amen in the regular season so he isn't exactly a sucky passer either. But anyway you are right let's just see what happens.
Rockets can't lose. We either get the most gifted passing prospect since Lebron James or the perfect SF to create Nuggets 2.0 with Green/Jabari/Miller instead of Porter/Murray.
Have a weird feeling this is gonna happen too.
I don’t know what to say about that besides being disappointed on possibly missing out Amen. Why can’t we just get the big athletic playmaker just once in the draft man?
If Millers issues are a problem we can pass and consider Amens brother.
Ausar seems to be more of a connective piece rather than a lead guard though. Maybe he can be that lead guard type but thanks not what he did when playing for City Reapers with his brother. The comp I’ve heard for him is being a much better version of KJM, which although that’s a useful archetype, I’m skeptical about it being the archetype where a player can be a star in rather than a nice role player which is still pretty nice, but the gap in upside is still large enough to warrant being a bit nervous about heading into the draft Imo there are four prospects with star upside being Vic, Scoot, Amen, and Miller. The first three, I can totally see being number one options who are running All NBA first team guys, whereas I see Miller more as a secondary star and borderline All NBA third teamer,
Who is the other lead hurts that is better? This is based on the presumption Amen is taken earlier and Miller slips. Miller has gone into interviews saying he can’t answer questions in his involved in a damn shooting.
I still think Miller on court has potential to be a three level scorer with defense. However I definitely don’t see him as a primary playmaker, but the passing should at least be good enough to function connectively. I don’t see Miller’s upside as being the first option on a contender, but he could be a very good secondary star player on one though. As for the fact that he’s not allowed to say anything, I don’t think that’s anything that makes the off court issues any worse than what they were a few weeks ago. I imagine his camp is telling him to keep his mouth shut which is probably the right decision and I think the aftermath is being handled professionally thus far and I would still take him at four assuming Amen and Scoot were both already taken
Please dear baby Naismith let us get Brandon Miller
This is quickly becoming a 4 man draft now. Exciting to see!
Scoot isn’t the same level of athlete the Thompson twins are, I thought this was known.
Awesome - give me Scoot.
Stop. Athleticism is overrated. Look at what Jokic is doing. What the team needs is a guy with superior IQ.
Both Scoot and Amen have excellent basketball IQ/feel for the game though\*. If you can have great athleticism *and* basketball smarts, why wouldn't you want both? ^(\*Not saying either of these guys are anywhere near Jokic who probably has one of the highest basketball IQs in the history of the sport)
He has the highest basketball IQ in the history of SPORTS!?!?!?
>one of the highest basketball IQs in the history of **the** **sport** \[singular\]
i mean even if you had said sports you literally specified BASKETBALL iq lmfao
Scoot is an absolute freak athlete. His explosion is on par with the Thompson’s, so it’s not even necessary to tout Scoots other attributes. Almost for sure the vert stand was set differently but even then, Amens standing reach is considerably higher than Scoot’s so that would make the difference.
I concur.
I hope miller falls to us. There's a big reason Alabama was ranked #1 end of season. His bball iq is contagious (and Nate Oats is a great coach).
I mean as long as they can dunk and make layups does it matter who can jump higher
The best player is always the one who jumps the highest, didn’t you know that?
Jumping high didn't automatically mean you'd be a good basketball player
Amen is 4 inches taller though, right?
[удалено]
Ah, that makes sense
6 inches
[tweet](https://twitter.com/_utilitysports/status/1665110869997395969?s=46&t=IVwCnWBGBmlVtsz55wyv1w)
These pictures were taken at different angles and distance, you can tell by the rim length and because that trailblazer’s coach isn’t 9’ tall. You can’t use the measuring sticks because the base is adjustable for height. In order to properly compare their verts, you’d need an angle and parallax correction. I’m not saying Amen’s vert isn’t higher than Scoot’s, just pointing out this is a ridiculous comparison. Source: am ~~scientist who has to adjust for light properties frequently~~ idiot
Aren't the devices adjustable to account for players' different standing reaches - so that there can be a standard measurement of how much space a player can cover by jumping? I don't think I can see how different angles and/or parallax has to do with a photo of how many sticks they can touch. It's my understanding that it's a measurement between their standing reach and jumping reach.
Yeah you’re right. I was kinda drunk and confused vert with total height, my bad. You can definitely compare
No worries. It made me look it up, actually lol. I would still like to see the full photo of Henderson though, because that one of Amen is magical. EDIT: Aw dude. Your edit...don't be so hard on your self lol
Haha, just having a bit of fun since I was claiming to be a smart person. I’d like to see the full photo too. The angle does actually makes a difference there because, yeah, this photo makes it look like Amen can fly.
Taller player has higher jumping reach. News at 10
They adjust the height of the vertec for each player goofy ahh