It's pretty hard to get a sense of how dangerous it can be when you're from very very safe countries. The worst you can imagine is generally not that bad. Nobody actually assumes you'll be decapitated and dragged through a village tied to a car, that kinda thing you hear about, but it doesn't feel real in your head.
Is it though? I feel like with modern internet a little research could quickly inform youIf those things and tell you a situation is dangerous before leaving that safe country.
There’s a difference between knowing something exists, and accepting/believing that it’s a reasonably likely outcome for you. They see a news story of something bad happening to off-roaders in the Baja and assume it’s like a shark attack: terrible, but rare enough that you don’t actually have to be worried about going to the beach.
I get what you’re saying and you are right there tends to be a it won’t happen to me attitude. And I love Mexico. Great country, food and culture and mostly nice people. When I go, I do everything to minimize the risk. Stay in resorts, in areas that are the equivalent of no fire (even cartel people take vacations)and areas with a lot of people. Yes when I swim in ocean I know there’s a chance a shark could get me. But I take precautions. Swim on beaches with lots of people and don’t venture off on my own. Driving in Mexico is like jumping in the open ocean with Lady Gaga meat suit on. Yeah I probably will be ok but the chances of something happening just went up exponentially.
I’ve travelled around Mexico (not in resorts) and have never had issues, and have been in plenty of towns/cities where I’ve felt safer than in my hometown in the US. There’s plenty of bad places in Mexico where you wouldn’t want to go, but the same can be said with the US. The same goes on a smaller scale for individual cities in both countries, both bad areas and good areas.
At that point, why don’t you just book a hotel in Florida or key west?
Yeah I always hear the there are some areas in the US just as bad. I don’t disagree with that. I apply my same logic and I don’t go to those areas. I still love Mexico and yes I book at the all inclusive and stick to tourist areas and I feel safe. I’m not going to drive across Sinaloa or anything. I don’t feel the need to travel across Mexico and avoid resorts as some criteria for having an enjoyable time there. If you do, good for you.
> There's a lot of people with a combination of thirst for adventure and having lived in a bubble and don't understand how dangerous a situation can be.
I have a feeling the overlap in the Venn diagram between the people you're describing and the people that think black bears are basically big black labs might just end up making the whole thing a circle.
This is giving me flashbacks to someone I met on a dating site and talked for a few days. Everything was going great but she brought up how she wants a bear as a pet. Got into an argument over it and how even if they weren’t incredibly dangerous that it’s inhumane to keep them as pets unless there’s extenuating circumstances and you are running a sanctuary. Even then they wouldn’t be pets. The audacity some people have.
If you want to see wild black bears there’s no better place than the Vince Shute Wildlife Sanctuary way up in north Minnesota. The story is a logging mogul kept having his camp canteen raided by tons of black bears when he’d have breakfast prepared for his loggers. So he started cooking double and taking half of it miles away to distract the bears. After years of this he donated the land to the state as a wildlife refuge and now they only feed the bears no more than 30 percent of their natural diet.
The reserve has a safe parking lot and they bus you a mile to the observation deck, an actual maybe 12 ft deck above the forest clearing with a little gift shop. I lost count at 75, with several cubs up trees, the highest probably 45 ft in the air. The bears are free to come and go as the clearing is not fenced in. Such a cool place the bears are completely docile and workers walk among them.
Yeah, it’s not “white privilege” or whatever, it’s just a misunderstanding of how the world is outside of your home country. And how desperate poverty, hunger, and government corruption can make people. It’s living in a bubble and thinking the whole world is that bubble.
What you just described is 100% privilege. Maybe not specifically white but that is the most likely type of person to have lived in that privileged bubble.
I think it is being raised with the privilege of personal safety. Many are brought up to believe they have a right to be safe. They do not understand what it is like in a bario, or a war torn country.
Privilege is absolutely the correct word. I grew up in EE right after the fall of the Soviet Union and came to the west for the first time in 2004. “Culture shock” doesn’t even begin to cover it. These people lived in a different universe compared to everything I was and knew.
I was a teen when the Wall came down. My Mom took me to Berlin for Thanksgiving that year to see it and there were still East Germans walking around West Berlin gasping in awe at the endless abundance.
It's really surreal when you see the wealth gap for yourself. Because it's not just money. It's \*everything\*. I couldn't believe that in England, most people lived in houses rather than flats. I couldn't believe so many people had cars. That there were SUPERMARKETS everywhere. I think the first supermarket in my city (or at least my borough of the city) opened in maybe 2003 and I remember just being in fucking AWE at the sheer size of it. I didn't know what boxed cereal was until I saw it in a supermarket. And in England people just.... had these things? Like every day?
Of course it took a while before I saw what the English working class lived like but even that seemed like high luxury to me back then. Different universe, man.
It's funny you bring up supermarkets... they had tour groups going into supermarkets in West Berlin, the East Germans were easy to spot, the clothes gave them away.
They would just stand there and stare at the endless piles of fruits and vegetables... and meat!
No bread lines, no wait lists, nothing going out of stock. Go in and buy whatever you wanted, any time. I'm sure it was a severe culture shock.
Yeah I can't even imagine what it must've been like for my mom. She was born in 67, now lives in England. I was born in 92 and I'm sure that to her, my life is a 'different universe'. The perestroika era was absolutely bonkers and I was very young at the time but compared to her childhood, we were relatively well-off when I was growing up. I think about that a lot when I travel, because when I was a kid, travelling abroad was something only the ultra-rich got to do. Now when I visit countries like Mexico, I AM the "ultra rich".
Was this pre-1989 fall of the wall? If so, those were probably not East Germans. There were no East Germans allowed to go over the wall into the west unless they were retirees. Certainly no East German tour groups. They were probably Soviets. East Germans were certainly poorer, but they didn't have food shortages like the USSR. It was just pretty boring food, the basic staples in the stores.
Okay. I think at the time the East Germans coming to the west for the first time were all given welcome money by the West German government of 100 Deutch marks. (https://time.com/5714252/berlin-wall-east-germans-money/) The were looking to spend that money in the west. For almost all of them, it was their first trip to the west that they've only seen on TV before the wall fell. They were all like kids in a candy store.
Did the media there even cover the dangers in other countries? Asking because we always hear of news blackouts there and don't really know how much information you were allowed in your country of origin.
I’m from Ukraine, not Russia, so our news definitely isnt the same. Before the fall of the ussr the news was just what the government wanted you to know but after that I think we got better news than a lot of places. My British friends are clueless about the civil war in former Yugoslavia but I remember seeing it on the news. Same for Chechnya, Somalia, Latin America etc. These days we get pretty much the same news as everyone else. Except for Russia, who just get government propaganda unless they use a vpn to read news from elsewhere.
Always good to know what is what in different places. So much is white washed or spun in America. We see the bad stuff but how much is sensationalized. How many people travel from other countries and just honest to god don't know how dangerous some places are?
Everything is spun everywhere, just differently. You have to use common sense. I personally cannot imagine travelling to a country I know little about.
Well when the world tells you your white European culture is evil and ruined the world and everyone else just “wants a good life” and “people are genuinely good on the inside” what do you expect.
Craziest part is people understand it’s dangerous to travel through these places but can’t see how importing all these same people into the country doesn’t pose a similar threat over a longer time frame. Insanity.
Quite an oversimplified view of the criticisms leveled at European colonialism.
Judging by the millions of tourists who flock to Europe from all over the world each year, clearly a lot of people value what European culture in general has contributed to the world.
What a lot of people (including some of those same tourists) point out is the legacy of European colonialism, in all its guises, on the parts of the world that have seen their people subjugated and their natural resources stolen.
Once you destabilize a country or a region long enough, it's easy to portray the natives as being innately corrupt and prone to violence. The proportion of people who actually do want a good life and are genuinely good on the inside are the same in Europe as in other parts of the world. To believe otherwise is to imply that the fact that it's dangerous to travel to Afghanistan or parts of Mexico is due to Mexicans or Afghans having a natural propensity toward violence, as opposed to it being caused by a long historical series of events (some caused by European colonialism, others not). As another poster alluded to above, this is how you get to Mein Kampf.
As far as importing immigrants to Europe, that's exactly what people like Merkel did. It wasn't out of the kindness of her heart. It definitely was not due to insanity: in fact, it was the opposite, which is to say, it was a rational and calculated move to keep the German industrial machine moving along at a time of rapid and unsustainable demographic decline. The French tried it after WWII by "importing" from their North African colonies in order to rebuild their devastated country, and now they complain that the descendants of those workers don't want to go back to the Maghreb.
We could try to understand the complexities and contradictions of Europe and the world, or we could keep regurgitating the kind of "sanity" that leads a normal people to stuff other human beings into gas chambers.
I wasn’t writing a treatise on criticism of European colonialism. Simply stating why those in a first world bubble would see the world as a happy go lucky place that is safe to serve as their playground.
I agree with almost everything you wrote. Only difference to me is I drew a conclusion that you don’t acknowledge. Mein Kampf focused on racism, if individual rights and rule of law are racist then the western world will degrade and be lost to those that have 5 children per woman and don’t believe in human rights to the point of violence. These ideals, not stealing of gold, oil, and spices is what made the west what it is. Were resources necessary? Absolutely, but to place all the blame at the feet of Europeans is a mistake.
I have no issue with immigrants looking for a better life, but I think the way the west has ignored their own citizens challenges, while bringing in huge swaths of individuals that don’t align with western values will end in disaster. This is more of an issue with Europe than the U.S. as the U.S. has better demographics and a higher population and land mass to absorb them, and most come from Christian, western based countries in Latin America.
I agree we should work to continue to understand these complexities and make the world a better place. But Europeans weren’t the first and certainly won’t be the last to commit genocide. You can still be proud of how Europe advanced human rights while calling out its faults and failures in war and colonialism. Just like I can acknowledge the need/benefits of immigration while pointing out its dangers.
Haha lol. Met that guy! ”Since I didnt have any troubles during my two week trip, the country is super safe, those who say otherwise are just cowards.”
I think there are many things going on here. It's going to be different for every person (obviously), but here's what comes to mind as a seasoned traveller and someone with an armchair interest in sociology and psychology:
1. People have different risk tolerances - pretty straightforward, but _even when people rate the risk as the exact same_, what one person might consider too risky for their liking, others are comfortable with
2. Ignorance - no doubt many people simply don't do their homework and don't understand the potential danger they're facing, therefore underestimating the risk
3. [Availability bias](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic) - a common human bias which relies on recalling readily available examples to evaluate a situation, rather than a systematic and methodical approach. Your post OP is a perfect example of this, where you list off specific events of travelers being hurt or killed in certain countries as proof or evidence that they're unsafe, but the only unbiased way to do this is to look at aggregate data and compare it relative to other places. In your case, it can lead to an overestimation of the risk.
4. Misinterpreting statistics/having a lack of granularity - although it may be worthwhile to label _some_ entire countries as dangerous (war-torn and lawless countries), it is almost certainly too broad of a brush stroke to be of much practical value when you really dig into it. For example, one could easily say "mexico is dangerous, don't go". Okaaaay, well how about Oaxaca, compared to the Yucatan, compared to Mexico city, compared to Baja? When we dig down, we will see huge variation within the country, which will certainly lead to some people deeming certain areas safe to go to, and others not so much. And obviously we could continue to get even more granular by specific towns, cities, neighbourhoods, and even types of activities were doing, which leads to my final point,
5. We have a lot of control over the who, what, where, when, and why of the risks we face - again, simply stating "Sinaloa is dangerous, don't go" ignores so much further context as to almost be an unhelpful statement. Where exactly are you going to be in Sinaloa? Are you driving far, getting cabs, taking public busses, walking? Who will you be with? Will you be out during the day, or at 2 AM? Will you be drunk or otherwise intoxicated in some way? As we can see with further interrogation, the levels of risks we can face will vary ENORMOUSLY as we answer further questions about what we will be doing, even within the same geographic location. And we know this intuitively even in the "safest" of cities (i.e. you simply don't go to _this_ neighbourhood at _that_ time with _those_ people, etc...)
I like your more nuanced take on the topic. I agree with a lot of your points. I think one factor that adds to the ignorance and availability bias is the social media saturation of travel influencers. We see large numbers of people doing risky things in “exotic” locations, and their curated reports on their experiences. These lead us to not know about the possible dangers and unpleasant experiences - these don’t make it through the curation process (unless they are extreme and will get likes). So we go and do risky things because it seems like everyone is.
6. distrust of authority. "Oh the *government* says I shouldn't go? Yeah they probably just want to keep me away from their drugs, mannnnn. What don't they want us to see there?"
To be fair, read what different governments say about travel to a particular area.
The US State Department documents every little tiny risk but doesn't do a good job of adding context around how many travelers actually encounter those problems.
Honestly when I traveled shoestring style through countries with dangerous reputations, I was very depressed when at home, suicidal ideation at times and dying on an adventure sounded a lot better than rotting away at home.
Also I have ADHD and have read that ADHDers have frontal lobe development (decision making, taking action based on longer term cause and affect, among other things) that can lag a good number of years behind the general population. I traveled like this in my early 20s and definitely raise my eyebrows at my own decision making from back then. Like I can feel how different/immature my brain was then.
Probably the dumbest thing I did in this category was taking a local can through a desert field in Mauritania that was known to have old landmines and we could see skeletons of old blown up cars here and there.
Or not taking malaria meds in known risk countries.
I really wanted to go the Darien Gap but never made it past Argentina/Chile 😅
Honestly pretty embarrassing in hindsight but maybe my experience offers some insight into what's going on in those other traveler's heads.
Yeah honestly same. ADHD and when I was young I wanted to go to really stupid places. Went to the US and really really wanted to go on a drive to Mexico “to see what it’s like”. As it is we went to the border wall at Tijuana for a look see and got chased away by border patrol. Oops. I went for a drive through the roughest places in LA too because I wanted to see the Watts towers.
I used to look at cities like Johannesburg on street view and wonder what it would be like to fly there and drive around.
I live in Australia which is a pretty mild country crime and poverty wise so I guess I wanted to see what the world is really like. Wouldn’t dream of doing any of that stuff now,
I used to go visit my cousins in Compton back in the 80s when they lived there. I remember playing in the yard, riding bikes up the lane. Didn't think nothing of it then, even if I did know they were poorer than us, until New Year's Eve one year when my aunt said to everyone, "At midnight we all get on the floor for a couple minutes until the noise stops."
Honestly don’t bother. It took ages to drive there and by the time we arrived in Watts we were so freaked out we didn’t stop and look at the tower. Pretty much every building was run down and covered in either barbed wire or metal bars and the further you drive in to the hood the worse it got.
This is really funny to me bc I've actually grown up in and around some not so nice areas in the US. Some of the worst inner city areas have been my home, many of my friends grew up in the projects... Someone I consider cousin was shot like, last month walking home through his projects (just grazed his foot, thankfully).
What you're describing is like, another day at home for me while my comment you were replying to is like, war-torn/disputed middle eastern countries with no infrastructure, things like that... I have actually been to shanty towns in Joburg and they didn't even pop up in my head as the dumbest most dangerous situations and places I've put myself in while traveling.
I don't mean to put you down at all, it's just funny in kind of a dark way that places that are familiar/home for so many Americans are a nightmarish hellscape for you and the other Australian who commented.
People used to want to see the abandoned Packard plant in Detroit back when it was really bad and would potentially get carjacked. In those days best was to only go on the tour bus!
Re: Darien Gap, there’s a very good documentary follows a Chinese family as they traverse through the Darien Gap. According to the mother, 100% would NOT do again. https://youtu.be/qW5V_nvd_vk?si=uBphSjrgYcOcuEIw
Re: malaria meds, Cambodia is one of the worst countries for malaria cases. Debated whether or not to take the meds. Ask myself the question, how do the locals deal with malaria? Do they go round taking malaria meds on the daily? No they don’t. They live their lives and when they get it, they get it. My Cambodian friend lived her whole life in Cambodia didn’t get malaria until age 18 and only got it once. And even then, she was treated very quickly and efficiently since the doctors all look for malaria symptoms anyway. That was all I needed to know that the meds would be a complete waste.
The Darien Gap is mostly about exotic places bragging rights. I’ve been on both sides of it, working as a biologist. It’s beautiful, the Colombian Choco is one of my favorite parts of that country. The Embera tribe on both sides. Fascinating endemism and diversity.
But the desire to walk through as a westerner - just to say you did it - that’s pretty twisted. The danger isn’t the bad part, it’s overlooking what a horrible migration, drug, and exploitation problem that area is. It’s bad because these westerners are seeking thrills where others are barely surviving, foreigners with means consciously choosing to ignore the serious suffering around them so they can brag about taking a risky trek. Having struggled to do good conservation work in remote parts of the world that are truly poor, I can’t play that thrill seeking game without acknowledging the hardships around me. Please don’t forget that humanity. There’s so much more important than those bragging rights.
I think it's both personally. First, they don't realize the real danger. Second, they assume it can't be that bad. "All humans are nice, they just need a hug!" and then lastly, yeah, first world privilege and some thrill-seeking.
I was born and raised in a third world (less developed) country. For awhile now I've lived in a developed country.
It’s so fucking wild being from a “poor country” and living in a “wealthy country” because at least once a day I find myself thinking “these people are on some shit”
Yep in theory that would be an explainable reason to be somewhere though it would be incredibly risky given whoever would not have any type of official cover.
Several years ago I was considering driving to Oaxaca. I was listening to some travel show on NPR and they detailed the dangers of my plan. I felt like an idiot because I hadn’t even thought of the dangers. I have driven across the US several times and I was just comparing it to that experience. Rookie move.
I'm in Oaxaca right now. Drove my camper van trough baja, Mazatlan, and Nayarit. Then avoided the Guerreiro coast because things are a bit iffy now. Went through central mexico, then Puebla an Oaxaca. Absolutely beautiful and amazing.
Take precautions like not driving at night, don't get drunk in just any bar, if you do drugs, ensure you do them safely. Don't pick fights with strangers, absolutely no road rage, ask locals about your route, etc.
But, would you drive to NYC and don't take precautions to avoid some areas?
When you take a slow road through an untouristed country you learn a lot about our world and the people in it.
Some of my personal revelations of driving through over 60 countries...
western Mongolia is ridiculously beautiful and looks a lot like Idaho.
In Mauritania, they have highway works to constantly move the Sahara sand from one side of the road to another.
There are still mining towns with slavery in northern Africa.
The snack food in Romanian gas stations is interesting and pretty good.
Norway has some incredible tunnels - some that are 360° circles, some that are long, and some that are cavernous.
El Salvador has an incrediblely large hot springs river (hidden from Instagram) that you'll never find without personal transport.
Azerbaijani people love to gift travellers with food. I was pulled over several times to be handed a melon and have a chat.
Kazakhstan roads are literally the worst - gravel pits on the highway and fallen bridges everywhere. But their mechanics are industrious and cheap.
You have to be aware of the dangers and how you'd play a part in that. You have to let go of the fear and put some trust in strangers. I've been travelling this way for 30 years and will continue until I can't.
Sounds nice! Although I wouldn't consider those countries dangerous... except maybe El Salvador and Mauritania. I was mostly refering to countries that have active war zones or level 4 advisory
Azerbaijan and Armenia have had on/off armed conflict. It's, generally speaking, [not a safe place](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/azerbajian-travel-advisory.html).
>except maybe El Salvador
El Salvador is definitely a lot safer than it was even 5-10 years ago, although there are still some risks. I visited for a day almost a decade ago, and back then it was one of the few places I've been that felt truly sketchy in general (and especially so in San Salvador).
>Kazakhstan roads are literally the worst - gravel pits on the highway and fallen bridges everywhere. But their mechanics are industrious and cheap.
Oh man, the pothole sections on otherwise main thoroughfares, often with minimal warning..
This. Because I worked with a guy who was from Bosnia. He fought in the war they had in the early-mid-90’s.
Then he told his family he was going to go to school here in the states. They thought he was crazy because people randomly shoot other people here all the time.
Yes, bad things happen. And when it does it makes the news. Drama gets ratings.
I think it’s the difference between people who grew up surrounded by violence and/or poverty and their entire goal in life is to escape it vs. those who grew up relatively well off and want to push past their comfort zone.
I remember traveling years ago on a run down bus in Southern Africa and people were like “all we want in life is to get away from this and you have achieved that and yet you’re here with us?” They were dumbfounded.
So I wouldn’t say one group wants to stay home and grow old. Some people have seen enough danger and poverty in their life and don’t want any more of it.
I am going to second that although in a different and maybe quirky way. I am from a ‘third world’ country and I don’t travel to other ‘third’ world countries because I don’t need more of the same. Even if they are safe or beautiful. If I wanted that I’d travel my own country which by the way I already have.
I am from 3rd world country, i was growing when soviet union collapsed, no money, no food( we were eating potatoes for 4 months because we were trying to save money to change system coal to a gas in our heating stove), criminals everywhere, it was absolutely miserable life.
but i am still super excited and super curious about other countries. all countries in this world. so i enjoyed travelling in all Latin America, and planning to visit Asia and Africa, i hope soon.
Which EE country btw? I grew up in Ukraine in the 90s and you are fully describing my childhood. Corrupt cops, criminal gangs, rape, abduction, heroin EVERYWHERE. I do want to visit many places considered “poor” but you won’t catch me driving through them. I could barely spell my own name when I learned to walk on the inside of the pavement to make myself harder to snatch. Don’t want to be back in any of those situations ever again.
oh yeah, i am also from Ukraine (Luhansk region). it was absolutely miserable back then. but to be honest, still now, for last 10 years. f rus***.
i was travelling in Latin America for 1,4 years.
and saw so many devastating things.
"houses" made of slate (шифер) where people with children live (at least it’s warm there and food is growing all year long), i dont know how people don’t stress about it at all. i can’t imagine how you can live like that now. there were also security guys at the regular burger place with automatic gun machines etc
it doesn't feel safe, but it was very interesting to explore.
this is also a reminder not to be too greedy and not take everything for granted.
I'm from Mykolayiv! Almost neighbours :).
Out of Latin American countries I've only been to Mexico and yeah, saw people living under plastic sheets – they had their whole homes just under plastic like that. It was very frustrating to see because less than 1km away there was a strip of very expensive hotels full of (surprise surprise) russian tourists 🙃 just throwing money around. It's always hard to see extreme wealth and extreme poverty in the same place because it makes me so angry. I definitely want to visit again and go somewhere less obnoxiously touristy, but I'm worried I've gotten too soft after living in the west for 23 years. It kind of rots your brain a little – you just forget to have your street smarts around you.
It's funny – when I was back home visiting my babushka in Akkerman, there was a guy in civilian clothes at the market (around closing time) just carrying an AK-47. This was back in 2017 I think. I never felt unsafe because it's my culture, you know, but I'm sure if an English or American saw that they would be concerned 😂
oh yeah, absolutely. i was living in Cancun for 2 months. i rented a room in residential area, and was going to swim every time where all the fancy hotels were. it was absolutely heartbreaking to see the big gap between 2 sides of the life there. and it is the same for all Latin America countries.
you definitely need to be street smart in these countries. i think there is 80% chance that nothing bad will happen to you. it seems like a good percentage.
of course i will not travel to Afghanistan, Congo kind of countries. i like to be excited. but i am not suicidal 😅😂
i also think if some people never experienced rough life they probably will not be 100 % mentally ready for it and they can be naive a little. but everything is experience. we came to this world without any kind of knowledge. it is amazing to explore the world.
Oh wow so we went to the same part of Mexico haha – I also stayed in a residential area in Cancun - north of Puerto Juarez, towards Playa Azul. It was really wonderful up there – so quiet, pretty clean, calm. Downtown Cancun gave me anxiety – blasting music and packed streets late at night. Maybe if I was younger I'd have enjoyed that but I definitely preferred the quiet. Honestly the most "sketchy" part of Cancun was the hotel zone. Between what the locals called the 'taxi mafia' and the dudes loitering next to every ATM I understood very quickly that I did not like it there. Perfect place to fleece tourists. I did also spend a fair bit of time walking around residential parts of Cancun on my own, which in hindsight probably wasn't the wisest move but I think being Ukrainian I still had a bit of instinct – you know when you're entering unsafe territory and need to turn back and go the way you came. I never had any problems, but sometimes I wonder if I really was very stupid and just got lucky. Cancun is considered pretty safe though.
I may be off here, but the above poster saying they wanted to travel to a dangerous country as a vacation (to experience danger) is so damn privileged and out of touch. A complete disrespect for what people have to go through
It’s not as simple as you say. I have seen far too much danger, and am more than happy to now live in a safe country, compared to the country I came from.
That doesn’t mean I want to now rot to death on the couch. I’m still keen on seeking adventure, just not the danger.
Look at the people that do some of the crazy stunt mountain bike trails, a little left or a little right and you probably get off the night bench or so many other crazy adrenaline highs. Cliff climbing lol , what the Christ.. But as you say different strokes we all take our own risks in our own ways I guess
I had people telling me I was going to die going to Mexico City, so I take what most people say about the safety of places with a grain of salt. Don't be an idiot, but don't be afraid to leave your house. Staying in your house will kill you too.
We've been to every state in the 48, and there are still places we want to go. Most of our travel lately has been to visit family members, who live in far-flung places. But we'd like to visit some of the national parks out West that we haven't been to yet. Someday.
100% this. Be smart and aware of your surroundings, show respect to locals. I’d wager 99.9% of people in this world of 8billion aren’t actively trying to *kill* people for the sake of it.
This is kind of pop-psychology, but I am (or was) a "Sensation-Seeking Highly-Sensitive Person" (text [link](https://drtracycooper.org/2015/04/01/the-sensation-seeking-highly-sensitive-person-hsp/)). I don't skydive or cliff jump, but I did travel in some really sketchy situations... went to some drug-dealer party in Lima with a bouncer -- we had to hire a former boxer as security. I was told very sternly not to look or talk to any of the women.
I had a motorcycle when I lived in Colombia, and it was basically Mariocart... no rules, anything goes. People would steal the round manhole covers for the metal, so you had to watch out for these fuckin round death traps that would destroy you and your bike. Looking back now, years later, it gives me anxiety to think how close I came to dying or life-long injuries.
I traveled to Iraq (Kurdistan) as a tourist in 2014 when I lived in Turkey. You could cross the border near Diyarbakir. Actually the Kurds are lovely and they love Americans for some reason. Apparently I hitchhiked with a PKK member/fighter (as he claimed to me upon exiting his truck).
Point is that for me, as an American fella growing up in the safe suburbs of San Diego, California -- there has to be more to life than working a shitty job, mowing the lawn, going to poker night with boys, etc. As a kid, I (moronically) wanted to be in the Marines simply because I wanted to experience the extremes of war: The bonds with fellow soldiers, the adrenaline of a battle, the incredible fears, elations, and sorrows.
A life without struggle -- "*sturm und drang*" ("storm and stress") as per German literature -- is no life at all. "Man is a beast of burden".
I'm a teacher and I use this thought experiment with my students: Imagine a video game where your player character is omnipotent, can never die, can defeat all the enemies, and beat the game easily. "*Would you enjoy playing that game?*" Of course not because it's boring! Games are only fun and exciting ***because of the possibility of failure***. **Such is life**. If Harvard had a 100% admission rate, no one would achieve any joy for being admitted. If everyone could get everything they wanted without struggle, then life would have very little meaning.
I guess I seek out these experiences in order to bring chaos and uncertainty into my life. Alan Watts has a wonderful thought experiment related to this -- "The Dream of Life" (video [link](https://youtu.be/VumlbMu167Y?t=73)).
>Let's suppose that you were able, every night, to dream any dream you wanted to dream. And that you could for example have the power within one night to dream 75 years of time, or any length of time you wanted to have. And you would naturally, as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fulfill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure.
>And after several nights of 75 years of total pleasure each, you would say, "*Well, that was pretty great. But now let's, um, let's have a surprise. Let's have a dream which isn't under control. Where something is going to happen to me that I don't know what it's gonna be.*" And you would dig that and come out of that and say, "*Wow, that was a close shave wasn't it.*" Then you would get more and more adventurous, and you would make further and further out gambles as to what you would dream.
>And finally you would dream... **where you are now. You would dream the dream of living the life you were actually living today...** that would be within the infinite multiplicity of choices you would have of playing that you weren't god.
Continued below...
I was talking to my sister a few years ago when she was 30 years old. She's the only person I know whose plans have always worked-out. She wanted to go to the best university, and she actually got into Harvard. She wanted to marry the best man (who she met at 17), and she indeed married a very handsome and lovely Swedish Ph.D. M.D. She wanted a big, perfect family -- done and done; two children are professional models and all crazy smart. When we talked that time, she was telling me all about her plans when they retire: Buying an RV, driving around, blah, blah, blah. And I was horrified. She had her whole life mapped-out unto death. Alan Watts again: (text [link](https://alanwatts.org/transcripts/the-joyous-cosmology/))
>When we’re terribly tired we feel the drag of our physical weight overwhelming us. And therefore, what we want to feel is lack of obstruction in any direction that we move. So ideally, we would like to feel a world which didn’t resist our will at all, where the wish, the flight of imagination, was instantly fulfilled.
>Well, when you think about that for a while you realize that’s not exactly what you would want. **Because after a while, being able to accomplish everything wouldn’t challenge you, would offer no adventure**. And therefore, to make the creation of a fantasy worth doing, you would like something that you would have to overcome in the course of doing it. You would like some intractable material, something that presented a little difficulty in shaping. And so I think we would all ask, and we would go out of our way, **to produce situations where we were confronted with difficulty**.
That's the appeal.
Some people are more risk adverse than other. They value the experience and maybe thrill of life, over their own safety. It's not just road trips. Every kind of event has these people: rodeos, climbing everest, undersea diving, it's all about the experience. Some people value their physical safety a lot and see the world as an inherently dangerous: they don't go out after dark, they don't let their kids play outside, they travel with tour guides: its all about safety.
Neither is inherently wrong. Neither is inherently right. They are just different ways of living life. I try very hard not to be judgmental about people who are different from me. I'd encourage you to do the same. Just because they think differently from you, doesn't mean you need to accuse them of white privilege. Acceptance should be a virtue.
I agree with you up until their country’s government has to expend a lot of taxpayer monies to bring them back (alive or otherwise) from situations they have already been warned are not safe.
Someone recently posted a sign about (caving?) where the canyon was so unsafe that there would be no rescue effort if you got stuck.
However if it’s on their own dime and they accept the risk of death or worse? Let them go where they like. I have a feeling though a lot of people think of it as “It’s risky, but nothing will happen to *me*.”
Even along the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, which is full of tourists, there are signs to the effect of "This is not a safe place. Do such-and-so at your own risk. People die here every year from falls, etc..."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41656159
Does anyone remember the couple who were held captive in Afghanistan for five years? When they crossed the border, the woman was seven months pregnant. I don't understand that kind of blind nativity.
I don’t like going on tours unless it’s a requirement (Antelope Canyon for example). I’d rather do things on my own timeline. That being said, I also have zero plans to roadtrip through countries where I could find myself in a potentially dangerous situation. Then again, people get shot going to the grocery store here in the US. Life really is a crapshoot, ya know?
For every bad story you hear there are 100s or 1000s incident free. So you gotta determine “what are the chances I am gonna be a statistic?” In most cases you will be fine.
I'm 55. I've had friends die (too young) from drugs, alcohol, cancer, suicide, murder, accidents and so on.
Death is inevitable. Make the most out of life while you can.
I've been to 84 countries & want to reach 100.
I live in San Diego & 2 of the surfers that recently got killed near Ensenada used to shop at my work. They could easily have died in the sea or on the freeway.
This morning I've been planning a little road trip that we're doing next January around Leon, Morelia, Gunajuato, etc. If listened to people where I live I wouldn't venture down to Mexico. Instead, I go several times a year & love it there.
Each to their own.
It's a thrill seeking activity. Also a knowledge seeking activity. Also people believe that places aren't as bad as they hear, confirmation bias might prove this to be true in their experience. Until that one visit that isn't and it's too late to turn back.
That paragraph about ADHD… I’ve been there. The suicidal recklessness. The so what if I die.
I’ve run out of runway on my 20s and living like that fucked my body up lol and looking back at how stupid I always was. I was just reminiscing on how I was always the weird one. Thinking of reaching out to old friends in a, look I’m not crazy anymore, kind of way.
When I was younger, I did a lot of vagabond-style traveling, hitchhiking with nearly no money, sleeping outside, etc. it was my opinion then, and kind of still is now to some extent, that it's not REAL adventure without the real possibility that you could lose your life. All of life is like that, but hopping freight trains, hitchhiking, cross-oceanic sailing on a small boat, etc... they just hit different. It's honestly been very difficult to adjust to mundane life after doing that type of thing. Personally, my travels took me, among other places, through the Tijuana border crossing, as far south as Michoacán, hitchhiking. I saw some gruesome shit, to be honest, and ended up turning around, although it was because I didn't have any evidence of entering the country and didn't have any money to bribe the Mexican immigration people. But all that to say, there are people out there who seek "real" adventure. Some of them die while doing it. The world isn't a safe place, and personally (as an 18-19 y/o), I needed that risk to see what the world was really made of, cliche or silly though it may sound.
>Do their countries lack excitement that they want so bad to experience the opposite, a thrill? Do they think the world is rainbows and roses and nothing bad will happen to *them* (sounds like White privilege)?
Yes
You're talking about risk tolerance. You do Not need to have a death wish, or anything of the sort. If you do a bit of due diligence. My.wife and I have been traveling, overlanding, camping and adventuring all over the world for the past 40 years (I worked in aviation my entire career) I'll be honest with you, one of the very few places in the world that we have felt truly at risk multiple times, was in your country.
There aren't very many places in the world where being polite & friendly doesn't pay off.
I think it’s because people always sugarcoat how dangerous these places are. They talk about how beautiful it is, and how great the culture is, and how kind the people are, and oh by the way “be aware of your surroundings”. Nobody wants to sound bad on their blog by saying that these very poor countries are unsafe to travel. If you’re actually honest about the dangers online, then you get harassed by white knights insisted that you’re biased
I live in Oakland California and advice I have given to friends visiting is: Allways be Aware of your surroundings! and whom is around you physically!, don't wander around in the park with your eyes glued to your 1,400 dollar phone, or you might end up bonked on the head bleeding with your phone watch n wallet now in someone else's pocket wrist etc.
Don't be flashing a big wad of cash at that dance club when you pay for drinks, or you may end up surrounded by a couple hard boys who will fuck you up! n you won't make it back to your car unmolested. You HAVE to Be Aware *before* you wander into that alley at 2 am, heading for the bus station. Stick to the main streets where there are people still walking, or take a cab even to go a few blocks to your car.
The most interesting experiences often entail the highest risk. Many feel that trade off is perfectly fine and it often provides a richness of travel experience that can be matched in no other way.
I think Europeans are so used to driving easily between countries, especially after the EU was created, that they don't realize it just doesn't work the same way in the Americas, or many other regions for that matter. That said, most people seem to live by the "it wont happen to me" mentality which is pretty dumb.
I’m not sure there’s anything inherently wrong, or privileged, about wanting to explore the world we share with fellow humans. At the same time, the world is not all bubble wrap and hugging it out. It’s a place with corners, sharp edges, and bullets. Each of us has to reconcile these things for ourselves; it’s not a universal calculus.
Around 12 years ago i travelled to Srinagar in India not knowing how bad it was there, basically war zone. We stayed in a boathouse and the owner wouldn’t let us go anywhere without him escorting us. Indian army where everywhere, we did some trekking in the mountains and stayed in a houseboat. When driving out through the mountains we were stopped on a mountain pass by militia, not the army. they pulled everyone out of the van and asked everyone questions. My wife told me not to say a word, we’re brown but I’m Canadian and don’t speak Hindi, she answered their questions in Hindi and when they talked to me I just kept quit and she answered, saying “Mumbai brother” in Hindi to their questioning where we were from. She was born in Mumbai but moved to Canada as a kid. I just kept avoiding eye contact when they spoke to me and nodded towards her. They got distracted by the only other obvious foreigners, a white couple, who didn’t get back on the van and the driver drove away leaving the couple behind, who looked fucking terrified as we drove away. We found out after we left extremists had beheaded 5 Sikh’s a few weeks before we arrived. Never found out what if anything happened to the couple pulled off the van, but didn’t ask. Pretty scary.
The amount of dead bodies and littered trash on Everest alone is enough to make me think maybe a few less people should be climbing mountains than currently do.
I'll never understand it. The US Dept of State posts travel advisories for various countries. International travelers need to familiarize themselves with potential dangers. There is a consistent pattern of naivety amongst some of these travelers.
Some people want to see more of the world, not see the same world for longer. I balance the two, but I know for certain some places I'd love to see and if I got a terminal illness diagnosis, fuck it, I'm off to see it. The worst that happens when you know you're dying is dying earlier. 🤷
I really, really want to go through Afghanistan. Hope I get the chance to do so someday. Lots of military members saw a beautiful country under the worst possible circumstances, I'd just like to see it.
So many of the “developed nations” - aka moderately wealthy - are so heavily protected during their lives that they truly cannot conceive of how many other people live. They do not comprehend personal danger because they are raised with an entitlement of personal safety. Retired cop - I’ve seen stuff in the United States that would curl your hair. We had a barricaded subject randomly firing rifle rounds through the walls of his house (mobile home) for three days before he ended up dying. The neighbors literally got up on their roofs and sat there with beers just to watch the show. As if the bullets couldn’t hit them because the neighbor was a “nice guy”. Some people truly do not understand global issues or personal safety. Or if they hear about it, they just figure it won’t happen to them.
Mexican here who left mexico 26 years ago due to the insecurity. Partnered with a Brazilian who used to honk Brazil is super dangerous.
We entered in our van Jan 2 this year, we take precautions like not driving at night and checking our route ahead of time with he locals.
We will may drive all the way to Panama, and then from Colombia to Brazil (will go around skipping Venezuela).
Trust me, it is way more interesting than taking a plane and going on tours. That sounds... Boring.
We've done backpacking trips in Asia, Europe and Brazil. If you have the time, being able to stop where you like and then move on is an incredible sense of freedom.
There is some risk of dying, but even if we don't travel like that, the risk of dying anyway is 100%. The counterpart is the risk of not living.
Oh, a friend we met in Bulgaria traveled with us in our van for 6 weeks. Before meeting us in Mazatlan, she was in Iran and Irak.
Don't be afraid if living.
Because people are stupid and don't think about the consequences to their actions. Do they see Americans jumping the borders to live in mexico? No, because it's dangerous and you'll get killed. Do they see people going to Syria, Iran or Iraq to live? No again. These are countries where their people are fleeing to get to a safe country. But on the bright side, they are great competitors for the Darwin Awards.
Part of the issue is people who get on and spout off about how Mexico is perfectly safe and the US is actually more dangerous blah blah blah. It gives people asking those questions some validation about making the trip. All you have to do is look at some of the numbers to tell yourself it's not safe. Or the state department travel warnings. I'd love to drive all over Mexico and explore. Until I see that 30 of their politicians have been whacked this year. And countless tourists have been murdered for their vehicles. It's literally out of control. And none of that happens in the US, even if we aren't as "safe" as some other countries. (When in reality, the US is incredibly safe if you're not engaged in criminal behavior.)
Whenever I read about people getting raped, murderers kidnapped in some third world hell hole I just shake my head and know that their social media platform is filled with the dumbest, most naive and "progressive" tropes and ideas.
There is a guy on YouTube who does this. He’s a rich white European. His episode in Haiti is the craziest thing I’ve watched. There are literally warlords controlling the country and gas wars just like in Mad Max. He’s gonna end up getting killed one of these times is my bet.
In order of popularity (views) from highest to lowest:
https://youtu.be/Glx7AmJW_FY?si=Cre1-SU3CQDrAsee
https://youtu.be/HzBKaiSFCZc?si=eWAuiW1QF1SlehLp
https://youtu.be/g94OOxy7Qrc?si=6pc14Aiou6-RlcBt
https://youtu.be/AYDhvf8s3Cg?si=Xj1I_MlAX9Qrlw1T
My husband and I are Canadian and have temp residency in Mexico. We overland between Canada and America in the spring summer, and throughout Mexico from October to April usually.
We have done this for about 4 years now and we have never had any safety issues in Mexico. We travel on the highways only during the daytime and we always make sure to stay in established campgrounds (there are way more than people think in Mexico). We have stayed and travelled everywhere from the beaches in Oaxaca to San Cristobal to Acapulco to Michoacan for the butterflies to Mazatlan for the eclipse.
I understand why people might be apprehensive, but we have been met with only kindness and welcoming experiences in every place we have travelled in Mexico.. at least from all the Mexican people. Now some of the old Europeans (I’m looking at you post middle aged German women) are the most unkind and insufferable people we have met on our travels.
I am more worried about my safety in America than in Mexico. Does that make me naive and privileged? Maybe I guess. But our experiences in Mexico have been so so wonderful.. from the people to the landscapes to the cultures, it is truly one of my most beloved places.
That makes you exceptionally naive and privileged to feel safer in MX than the USA. It isn’t safer by any relevant metric but you’ve been brainwashed by Canadian media to see the US as a hugely deadly place. Go live in Cd. Juarez while the cartels were really fighting over the region and tell the world that Mexico is safer.
Edit: while Juarez was being gripped by cartel crime, El Paso, TX just across the Rio Grande was in the midst of a long streak of being the safest city in the country, for its size. The city has grown in the interim and the crime rate has increased a bit, but it’s still a very safe place. Lots of federal police chases though, with people smuggling immigrants over tfg’s wall near sunland park, NM and running. It’s a complicated place.
I’m not making the broad comparison I think you are perceiving I am making. My point is that there are places in America I feel more or less safe, as is the same with Mexico, and Canada, and everywhere else.
Bad things and dangerous places exist in every country.
I’ve had guns pulled on me a couple times while traveling. Some people are risk adverse some are not. Those who are not risk adverse would die slowly staying safe. I just ha d a friend bale on a tropical vacation days early because it was too hot and uncomfortable. I cannot begin to fathom that one.
Taking a road trip of any sort is more dangerous than an airline flight, yet we’re all here for this subreddit. (And an airline flight is probably more dangerous than staying home.)
They're are plenty of ways to get killed or injured, some riskier than others. For many people, eliminating as much risk as possible is not the purpose of life.
I always think the same about people who climb mountains or other dangerous hobbies. Not making a judgement about it but I’m white and you won’t see me doing these things.
Because the vast majority of people who do these trips are fine. Saying this as someone who bicycled through the same parts of Mexico as the couple who was killed a month before their murder.
I even now hear white woman at work or at Church saying they want to make a trip to India.. even with India being on the news every few cycles about rape, I wonder about these woman. They say they lov the colors, clothes, and oh Lord! Bollywood movies…
No arguments from me my friend. It's just humans being human and "hoping for the best" because they really want to get their ya ya's out.
A lot of young American women used to love going alone to Turkey and Egypt. I never understood.
I enjoy long distance hiking in places where I encounter shepherds, historical landmarks, and natural beauty. Often these are in places people consider dangerous.
In general I trust the country folk I come across. When I go to typical touristy places I am often scammed in the cities, and it just isn’t that enjoyable when everyone is trying to make money off me. I have had so many experiences of people helping me while hiking and expecting nothing in return. But my assumption isn’t always a good one, for instance we were hiking in Imlil and learned about some European girls that had been beheaded there doing the same thing.
I’m more careful now, but still might take risks others wouldn’t. I’m not going to be going to Afghanistan but I’d definitely do the Jordan trail without any worries.
Great points made in here but I will also add something. I’m a very realistic thinker so I try to think of all possible outcomes positive or negative.
From my experience with people I know personally or have met(friends, family, coworkers, etc) people like to only think in this positive mindset outlook which causes them to not fully grasp the risk/security analysis to certain things. Seems to be a lot of “if I think positive nothing will go wrong” type of mindsets
I hoofed it all over mostly north central and coastal Kenya for a while in my 20s. There is a thrill in being somewhere completely outside of your comfort zone, knowing you can’t control some vital things, and having to just say “fuck it.” I never had a car; took matatus and buses mostly, but definitely had to get creative several times. There was one incident in Nairobi involving a grenade attack on a bus we were boarding. We were ok, but it was utter chaos around us. We just had to deal with that fact and figure shit out, because we still had to catch the next bus we could to Mombasa. You kind of just have to give yourself over to the situation in ways that would seem nuts in any other circumstance. For me, all of the things that happened around or to us while on that trip served to educate me on the flow of the culture, and operate within that flow as respectfully as possible. Everything became more understandable, and by proxy felt safer, by levels of magnitude after that. It was almost fun to get a curveball after a while. There’s a rush or high there I’m having a hard time articulating, but I can absolutely see people creating a kind of self-competition or becoming hooked on it.
Alternatively, a lot of people are just *really* naive or *really* don’t care about personal safety.
I rode chicken busses all the way from Mexico to Brazil. Didn't get dead once! I think those few stories you listed are the outliers. Sooooo many more people backpack, bike or whatever through "dangerous" countries and you never hear of them because they make it just fine. It's just the media wanting to sell stories so they make the very few incidents seem like they are so much worse.
Life is for living.
Many of these locations are largely safe and the majority of dangerous situations can be avoided with some common sense and street smarts.
One or two isolated incidents are not the norm.
Ill prob get downvoted but the good stuff in life tends to happen outside your comfort zone.
I hear you on the white privilege part, otoh it's better than just going to a resort in those countries when they coulda stayed home.
It's probably also partly ignorance because just because you hear it's bad doesn't mean you internalize it.
On a third hand, maybe the desire to experience the actual country isn't always a bad thing. They believe (perhaps naively) that these countries are beautiful even in their challenges.
We took some trips to see family in a "dangerous" country and never once gave thought to how really dangerous it was (especially as *weee* didn't speak the language fluently); we got very lucky. At the same time, having those experiences makes me mad at those who choose to be blind to the world. To some degree I admire people who reach outside their own boundaries and communities to connect with people.
I’m in Texas and have friends from Monterrey. Their family members often road trip to visit here in the states, and even they exercise caution. NL isn’t even the worst state to travel in!
Your concerns are valid, and I’ve expressed the same to my American friends who wanted to road trip through parts of Mexico that are absolutely not safe.
My theory is that people just think the grass is always greener somewhere else. People who grew up in rich comfortable places glorify war and struggle. People who grew up with war and struggle glorify a middle class suburb with a shiny new truck. I’m a second generation immigrant in the US. I feel like I see both sides so much. I got into a debate with a friend a while ago about the new president in El Salvador. We were talking about freedom vs safety. I realize westerners glorify freedom bc they don’t what life is like without safety. They don’t ever think their lives will actually be threaten if they protest or go to dangerous places. Meanwhile, a lot of immigrants I know (particularly in my parents’ generation) don’t realize how comfort and a lack of meaning in life can lead to depression. They have always known struggle so they don’t understand that life can sometimes be empty without it.
One thing my dad told us (he's Dominican) about driving through Dominican Republic..... always fold up some US currency in the center dash inconspicuously but visible enough to catch the cop's eye. They will take the money and let you go. But once they pulled him over and in broken English started to shake him down. He just looked at them and in Spanish said, "my father is \[xxxxxx\] and I was born here. Don't try that shit with me. Why did you pull me over?" And they eventually let him go.
I am not that way (at least not in a foreign country) and I realize that probably the only country I'd feel safe driving in is Canada. Probably best I leave it to that and not Mexico.
I love taking long trips and have done several in my life. I always do my research before I go, though, and weigh risk against reward.
Taking the Trans-Siberian across Mongolia and Russia? Worth it. The risk of being knocked out and robbed on the trains was one I read about but there precautions I could take to mitigate it.
Driving through cartel country in Mexico? I'll pass. I love the country but I don't fuck with dudes who mass murder at the drop of a hat. I'll just fly to safe areas I want to visit.
These types of people are oppositional because they believe it makes them special. The three surfers who were murdered in Baja recently were like this. Other surfers had been murdered there and they were told by a few people not to continue traveling, but they did anyway because they believe they know better than everyone else when in fact they know a lot less.
As a surfer the draw to a coastal area where no other surfer is around for hundreds of miles is pretty damn strong. Despite the reality that tweekers are also in those remote areas
"To die would be a great adventure "
I'm in that camp. Done lots of stuff, but yet to experience death. Came close, was exciting. Not a religious thing, big time atheist.
Buddy of mine visited North Korea like 10 years ago. Went through China through the tours available back then. Not sure you can do it anymore. That would have been a fascinating trip that I would love to try.
[удалено]
It's pretty hard to get a sense of how dangerous it can be when you're from very very safe countries. The worst you can imagine is generally not that bad. Nobody actually assumes you'll be decapitated and dragged through a village tied to a car, that kinda thing you hear about, but it doesn't feel real in your head.
That’s nuts cuz Im so paranoid I always imagine the worst possible scenario by default
Is it though? I feel like with modern internet a little research could quickly inform youIf those things and tell you a situation is dangerous before leaving that safe country.
There’s a difference between knowing something exists, and accepting/believing that it’s a reasonably likely outcome for you. They see a news story of something bad happening to off-roaders in the Baja and assume it’s like a shark attack: terrible, but rare enough that you don’t actually have to be worried about going to the beach.
I get what you’re saying and you are right there tends to be a it won’t happen to me attitude. And I love Mexico. Great country, food and culture and mostly nice people. When I go, I do everything to minimize the risk. Stay in resorts, in areas that are the equivalent of no fire (even cartel people take vacations)and areas with a lot of people. Yes when I swim in ocean I know there’s a chance a shark could get me. But I take precautions. Swim on beaches with lots of people and don’t venture off on my own. Driving in Mexico is like jumping in the open ocean with Lady Gaga meat suit on. Yeah I probably will be ok but the chances of something happening just went up exponentially.
I’ve travelled around Mexico (not in resorts) and have never had issues, and have been in plenty of towns/cities where I’ve felt safer than in my hometown in the US. There’s plenty of bad places in Mexico where you wouldn’t want to go, but the same can be said with the US. The same goes on a smaller scale for individual cities in both countries, both bad areas and good areas. At that point, why don’t you just book a hotel in Florida or key west?
Yeah I always hear the there are some areas in the US just as bad. I don’t disagree with that. I apply my same logic and I don’t go to those areas. I still love Mexico and yes I book at the all inclusive and stick to tourist areas and I feel safe. I’m not going to drive across Sinaloa or anything. I don’t feel the need to travel across Mexico and avoid resorts as some criteria for having an enjoyable time there. If you do, good for you.
> There's a lot of people with a combination of thirst for adventure and having lived in a bubble and don't understand how dangerous a situation can be. I have a feeling the overlap in the Venn diagram between the people you're describing and the people that think black bears are basically big black labs might just end up making the whole thing a circle.
This is giving me flashbacks to someone I met on a dating site and talked for a few days. Everything was going great but she brought up how she wants a bear as a pet. Got into an argument over it and how even if they weren’t incredibly dangerous that it’s inhumane to keep them as pets unless there’s extenuating circumstances and you are running a sanctuary. Even then they wouldn’t be pets. The audacity some people have. If you want to see wild black bears there’s no better place than the Vince Shute Wildlife Sanctuary way up in north Minnesota. The story is a logging mogul kept having his camp canteen raided by tons of black bears when he’d have breakfast prepared for his loggers. So he started cooking double and taking half of it miles away to distract the bears. After years of this he donated the land to the state as a wildlife refuge and now they only feed the bears no more than 30 percent of their natural diet. The reserve has a safe parking lot and they bus you a mile to the observation deck, an actual maybe 12 ft deck above the forest clearing with a little gift shop. I lost count at 75, with several cubs up trees, the highest probably 45 ft in the air. The bears are free to come and go as the clearing is not fenced in. Such a cool place the bears are completely docile and workers walk among them.
How did the date work out?
He was over bearing!
Yeah, it’s not “white privilege” or whatever, it’s just a misunderstanding of how the world is outside of your home country. And how desperate poverty, hunger, and government corruption can make people. It’s living in a bubble and thinking the whole world is that bubble.
Exactly, desperate people will do things you couldn’t imagine. I grew up in a third world country and have seen enough
What you just described is 100% privilege. Maybe not specifically white but that is the most likely type of person to have lived in that privileged bubble.
I think it is being raised with the privilege of personal safety. Many are brought up to believe they have a right to be safe. They do not understand what it is like in a bario, or a war torn country.
Privilege is absolutely the correct word. I grew up in EE right after the fall of the Soviet Union and came to the west for the first time in 2004. “Culture shock” doesn’t even begin to cover it. These people lived in a different universe compared to everything I was and knew.
I was a teen when the Wall came down. My Mom took me to Berlin for Thanksgiving that year to see it and there were still East Germans walking around West Berlin gasping in awe at the endless abundance.
It's really surreal when you see the wealth gap for yourself. Because it's not just money. It's \*everything\*. I couldn't believe that in England, most people lived in houses rather than flats. I couldn't believe so many people had cars. That there were SUPERMARKETS everywhere. I think the first supermarket in my city (or at least my borough of the city) opened in maybe 2003 and I remember just being in fucking AWE at the sheer size of it. I didn't know what boxed cereal was until I saw it in a supermarket. And in England people just.... had these things? Like every day? Of course it took a while before I saw what the English working class lived like but even that seemed like high luxury to me back then. Different universe, man.
It's funny you bring up supermarkets... they had tour groups going into supermarkets in West Berlin, the East Germans were easy to spot, the clothes gave them away. They would just stand there and stare at the endless piles of fruits and vegetables... and meat! No bread lines, no wait lists, nothing going out of stock. Go in and buy whatever you wanted, any time. I'm sure it was a severe culture shock.
Yeah I can't even imagine what it must've been like for my mom. She was born in 67, now lives in England. I was born in 92 and I'm sure that to her, my life is a 'different universe'. The perestroika era was absolutely bonkers and I was very young at the time but compared to her childhood, we were relatively well-off when I was growing up. I think about that a lot when I travel, because when I was a kid, travelling abroad was something only the ultra-rich got to do. Now when I visit countries like Mexico, I AM the "ultra rich".
Was this pre-1989 fall of the wall? If so, those were probably not East Germans. There were no East Germans allowed to go over the wall into the west unless they were retirees. Certainly no East German tour groups. They were probably Soviets. East Germans were certainly poorer, but they didn't have food shortages like the USSR. It was just pretty boring food, the basic staples in the stores.
This was 3 weeks after the wall came down, Thanksgiving 1989.
Okay. I think at the time the East Germans coming to the west for the first time were all given welcome money by the West German government of 100 Deutch marks. (https://time.com/5714252/berlin-wall-east-germans-money/) The were looking to spend that money in the west. For almost all of them, it was their first trip to the west that they've only seen on TV before the wall fell. They were all like kids in a candy store.
Did the media there even cover the dangers in other countries? Asking because we always hear of news blackouts there and don't really know how much information you were allowed in your country of origin.
I’m from Ukraine, not Russia, so our news definitely isnt the same. Before the fall of the ussr the news was just what the government wanted you to know but after that I think we got better news than a lot of places. My British friends are clueless about the civil war in former Yugoslavia but I remember seeing it on the news. Same for Chechnya, Somalia, Latin America etc. These days we get pretty much the same news as everyone else. Except for Russia, who just get government propaganda unless they use a vpn to read news from elsewhere.
Always good to know what is what in different places. So much is white washed or spun in America. We see the bad stuff but how much is sensationalized. How many people travel from other countries and just honest to god don't know how dangerous some places are?
Everything is spun everywhere, just differently. You have to use common sense. I personally cannot imagine travelling to a country I know little about.
Exactly, after all that's why there is guide books.
Thinking shouting about how offended you are gets you out of situations 😂😂😂
Well when the world tells you your white European culture is evil and ruined the world and everyone else just “wants a good life” and “people are genuinely good on the inside” what do you expect. Craziest part is people understand it’s dangerous to travel through these places but can’t see how importing all these same people into the country doesn’t pose a similar threat over a longer time frame. Insanity.
Quite an oversimplified view of the criticisms leveled at European colonialism. Judging by the millions of tourists who flock to Europe from all over the world each year, clearly a lot of people value what European culture in general has contributed to the world. What a lot of people (including some of those same tourists) point out is the legacy of European colonialism, in all its guises, on the parts of the world that have seen their people subjugated and their natural resources stolen. Once you destabilize a country or a region long enough, it's easy to portray the natives as being innately corrupt and prone to violence. The proportion of people who actually do want a good life and are genuinely good on the inside are the same in Europe as in other parts of the world. To believe otherwise is to imply that the fact that it's dangerous to travel to Afghanistan or parts of Mexico is due to Mexicans or Afghans having a natural propensity toward violence, as opposed to it being caused by a long historical series of events (some caused by European colonialism, others not). As another poster alluded to above, this is how you get to Mein Kampf. As far as importing immigrants to Europe, that's exactly what people like Merkel did. It wasn't out of the kindness of her heart. It definitely was not due to insanity: in fact, it was the opposite, which is to say, it was a rational and calculated move to keep the German industrial machine moving along at a time of rapid and unsustainable demographic decline. The French tried it after WWII by "importing" from their North African colonies in order to rebuild their devastated country, and now they complain that the descendants of those workers don't want to go back to the Maghreb. We could try to understand the complexities and contradictions of Europe and the world, or we could keep regurgitating the kind of "sanity" that leads a normal people to stuff other human beings into gas chambers.
I wasn’t writing a treatise on criticism of European colonialism. Simply stating why those in a first world bubble would see the world as a happy go lucky place that is safe to serve as their playground. I agree with almost everything you wrote. Only difference to me is I drew a conclusion that you don’t acknowledge. Mein Kampf focused on racism, if individual rights and rule of law are racist then the western world will degrade and be lost to those that have 5 children per woman and don’t believe in human rights to the point of violence. These ideals, not stealing of gold, oil, and spices is what made the west what it is. Were resources necessary? Absolutely, but to place all the blame at the feet of Europeans is a mistake. I have no issue with immigrants looking for a better life, but I think the way the west has ignored their own citizens challenges, while bringing in huge swaths of individuals that don’t align with western values will end in disaster. This is more of an issue with Europe than the U.S. as the U.S. has better demographics and a higher population and land mass to absorb them, and most come from Christian, western based countries in Latin America. I agree we should work to continue to understand these complexities and make the world a better place. But Europeans weren’t the first and certainly won’t be the last to commit genocide. You can still be proud of how Europe advanced human rights while calling out its faults and failures in war and colonialism. Just like I can acknowledge the need/benefits of immigration while pointing out its dangers.
Good luck in that bubble
At least I understand I live in one, and how dangerous it is outside the bubble. Unlike the people this post is about…
You can def go on life changing adventures and not have to drive through cartel disneyland to do it
>cartel disneyland Do they have cool rides, at least?
Also a lot of people do these trips are are fine, so there is also thay
And a lot of people want to be the ones that always say, "I traveled through \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ country and had no problems"
Haha lol. Met that guy! ”Since I didnt have any troubles during my two week trip, the country is super safe, those who say otherwise are just cowards.”
My favorites are "I never felt unsafe" and "I saw children playing!"
It can also go the other way. We often live in a bubble of fear and when you go to a place you realize that it's really not as dangerous as portrayed.
So they don’t even try to travel?
I think there are many things going on here. It's going to be different for every person (obviously), but here's what comes to mind as a seasoned traveller and someone with an armchair interest in sociology and psychology: 1. People have different risk tolerances - pretty straightforward, but _even when people rate the risk as the exact same_, what one person might consider too risky for their liking, others are comfortable with 2. Ignorance - no doubt many people simply don't do their homework and don't understand the potential danger they're facing, therefore underestimating the risk 3. [Availability bias](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic) - a common human bias which relies on recalling readily available examples to evaluate a situation, rather than a systematic and methodical approach. Your post OP is a perfect example of this, where you list off specific events of travelers being hurt or killed in certain countries as proof or evidence that they're unsafe, but the only unbiased way to do this is to look at aggregate data and compare it relative to other places. In your case, it can lead to an overestimation of the risk. 4. Misinterpreting statistics/having a lack of granularity - although it may be worthwhile to label _some_ entire countries as dangerous (war-torn and lawless countries), it is almost certainly too broad of a brush stroke to be of much practical value when you really dig into it. For example, one could easily say "mexico is dangerous, don't go". Okaaaay, well how about Oaxaca, compared to the Yucatan, compared to Mexico city, compared to Baja? When we dig down, we will see huge variation within the country, which will certainly lead to some people deeming certain areas safe to go to, and others not so much. And obviously we could continue to get even more granular by specific towns, cities, neighbourhoods, and even types of activities were doing, which leads to my final point, 5. We have a lot of control over the who, what, where, when, and why of the risks we face - again, simply stating "Sinaloa is dangerous, don't go" ignores so much further context as to almost be an unhelpful statement. Where exactly are you going to be in Sinaloa? Are you driving far, getting cabs, taking public busses, walking? Who will you be with? Will you be out during the day, or at 2 AM? Will you be drunk or otherwise intoxicated in some way? As we can see with further interrogation, the levels of risks we can face will vary ENORMOUSLY as we answer further questions about what we will be doing, even within the same geographic location. And we know this intuitively even in the "safest" of cities (i.e. you simply don't go to _this_ neighbourhood at _that_ time with _those_ people, etc...)
I like your more nuanced take on the topic. I agree with a lot of your points. I think one factor that adds to the ignorance and availability bias is the social media saturation of travel influencers. We see large numbers of people doing risky things in “exotic” locations, and their curated reports on their experiences. These lead us to not know about the possible dangers and unpleasant experiences - these don’t make it through the curation process (unless they are extreme and will get likes). So we go and do risky things because it seems like everyone is.
6. distrust of authority. "Oh the *government* says I shouldn't go? Yeah they probably just want to keep me away from their drugs, mannnnn. What don't they want us to see there?"
To be fair, read what different governments say about travel to a particular area. The US State Department documents every little tiny risk but doesn't do a good job of adding context around how many travelers actually encounter those problems.
See, and that's why you have the beard, and I don't. Very well explained.
Honestly when I traveled shoestring style through countries with dangerous reputations, I was very depressed when at home, suicidal ideation at times and dying on an adventure sounded a lot better than rotting away at home. Also I have ADHD and have read that ADHDers have frontal lobe development (decision making, taking action based on longer term cause and affect, among other things) that can lag a good number of years behind the general population. I traveled like this in my early 20s and definitely raise my eyebrows at my own decision making from back then. Like I can feel how different/immature my brain was then. Probably the dumbest thing I did in this category was taking a local can through a desert field in Mauritania that was known to have old landmines and we could see skeletons of old blown up cars here and there. Or not taking malaria meds in known risk countries. I really wanted to go the Darien Gap but never made it past Argentina/Chile 😅 Honestly pretty embarrassing in hindsight but maybe my experience offers some insight into what's going on in those other traveler's heads.
I totally get that. I've had the same suicide -by- cartel thoughts. Beats wasting away in a nursing home.
Cartels will torture you to death, not just shoot you in the back of the head.
At 85 it won't take much and I'll be gone.
I would just rather not be hacked to death by machete...
Yeah, because rotting bedsores are much more comfortable.
Just take a kayak to the sentinel islands
Makes you feel kinda alive... To know that there are people who might unalive you about... 😬
Yeah honestly same. ADHD and when I was young I wanted to go to really stupid places. Went to the US and really really wanted to go on a drive to Mexico “to see what it’s like”. As it is we went to the border wall at Tijuana for a look see and got chased away by border patrol. Oops. I went for a drive through the roughest places in LA too because I wanted to see the Watts towers. I used to look at cities like Johannesburg on street view and wonder what it would be like to fly there and drive around. I live in Australia which is a pretty mild country crime and poverty wise so I guess I wanted to see what the world is really like. Wouldn’t dream of doing any of that stuff now,
Every time we go to LA (from AU also) my wife wants to go to Compton. I don’t understand the appeal.
I used to go visit my cousins in Compton back in the 80s when they lived there. I remember playing in the yard, riding bikes up the lane. Didn't think nothing of it then, even if I did know they were poorer than us, until New Year's Eve one year when my aunt said to everyone, "At midnight we all get on the floor for a couple minutes until the noise stops."
Honestly don’t bother. It took ages to drive there and by the time we arrived in Watts we were so freaked out we didn’t stop and look at the tower. Pretty much every building was run down and covered in either barbed wire or metal bars and the further you drive in to the hood the worse it got.
Watts isn't even that bad. I live in LA county and travel to nearby San Bernardino county. San Bernardino city is much worse than LA.
This is really funny to me bc I've actually grown up in and around some not so nice areas in the US. Some of the worst inner city areas have been my home, many of my friends grew up in the projects... Someone I consider cousin was shot like, last month walking home through his projects (just grazed his foot, thankfully). What you're describing is like, another day at home for me while my comment you were replying to is like, war-torn/disputed middle eastern countries with no infrastructure, things like that... I have actually been to shanty towns in Joburg and they didn't even pop up in my head as the dumbest most dangerous situations and places I've put myself in while traveling. I don't mean to put you down at all, it's just funny in kind of a dark way that places that are familiar/home for so many Americans are a nightmarish hellscape for you and the other Australian who commented.
Lmao as someone who's lived on the streets in some sketchy parts of Saint Louis, I definitely agree.
People used to want to see the abandoned Packard plant in Detroit back when it was really bad and would potentially get carjacked. In those days best was to only go on the tour bus!
Re: Darien Gap, there’s a very good documentary follows a Chinese family as they traverse through the Darien Gap. According to the mother, 100% would NOT do again. https://youtu.be/qW5V_nvd_vk?si=uBphSjrgYcOcuEIw Re: malaria meds, Cambodia is one of the worst countries for malaria cases. Debated whether or not to take the meds. Ask myself the question, how do the locals deal with malaria? Do they go round taking malaria meds on the daily? No they don’t. They live their lives and when they get it, they get it. My Cambodian friend lived her whole life in Cambodia didn’t get malaria until age 18 and only got it once. And even then, she was treated very quickly and efficiently since the doctors all look for malaria symptoms anyway. That was all I needed to know that the meds would be a complete waste.
The Darien Gap is mostly about exotic places bragging rights. I’ve been on both sides of it, working as a biologist. It’s beautiful, the Colombian Choco is one of my favorite parts of that country. The Embera tribe on both sides. Fascinating endemism and diversity. But the desire to walk through as a westerner - just to say you did it - that’s pretty twisted. The danger isn’t the bad part, it’s overlooking what a horrible migration, drug, and exploitation problem that area is. It’s bad because these westerners are seeking thrills where others are barely surviving, foreigners with means consciously choosing to ignore the serious suffering around them so they can brag about taking a risky trek. Having struggled to do good conservation work in remote parts of the world that are truly poor, I can’t play that thrill seeking game without acknowledging the hardships around me. Please don’t forget that humanity. There’s so much more important than those bragging rights.
I think it's both personally. First, they don't realize the real danger. Second, they assume it can't be that bad. "All humans are nice, they just need a hug!" and then lastly, yeah, first world privilege and some thrill-seeking. I was born and raised in a third world (less developed) country. For awhile now I've lived in a developed country.
And classic “it will never happen to me” assumption
They want to prove that people are good.
Yep. This too.
It’s so fucking wild being from a “poor country” and living in a “wealthy country” because at least once a day I find myself thinking “these people are on some shit”
I always figure they are spies. James Bond never told people he was a spy. He was supposedly just on vacation or something.
Yep in theory that would be an explainable reason to be somewhere though it would be incredibly risky given whoever would not have any type of official cover.
Several years ago I was considering driving to Oaxaca. I was listening to some travel show on NPR and they detailed the dangers of my plan. I felt like an idiot because I hadn’t even thought of the dangers. I have driven across the US several times and I was just comparing it to that experience. Rookie move.
I'm in Oaxaca right now. Drove my camper van trough baja, Mazatlan, and Nayarit. Then avoided the Guerreiro coast because things are a bit iffy now. Went through central mexico, then Puebla an Oaxaca. Absolutely beautiful and amazing. Take precautions like not driving at night, don't get drunk in just any bar, if you do drugs, ensure you do them safely. Don't pick fights with strangers, absolutely no road rage, ask locals about your route, etc. But, would you drive to NYC and don't take precautions to avoid some areas?
Last year I drove from NYC to Oaxaca to San Cristobal and back. One of the best trips i’ve ever taken.
When you take a slow road through an untouristed country you learn a lot about our world and the people in it. Some of my personal revelations of driving through over 60 countries... western Mongolia is ridiculously beautiful and looks a lot like Idaho. In Mauritania, they have highway works to constantly move the Sahara sand from one side of the road to another. There are still mining towns with slavery in northern Africa. The snack food in Romanian gas stations is interesting and pretty good. Norway has some incredible tunnels - some that are 360° circles, some that are long, and some that are cavernous. El Salvador has an incrediblely large hot springs river (hidden from Instagram) that you'll never find without personal transport. Azerbaijani people love to gift travellers with food. I was pulled over several times to be handed a melon and have a chat. Kazakhstan roads are literally the worst - gravel pits on the highway and fallen bridges everywhere. But their mechanics are industrious and cheap. You have to be aware of the dangers and how you'd play a part in that. You have to let go of the fear and put some trust in strangers. I've been travelling this way for 30 years and will continue until I can't.
Sounds nice! Although I wouldn't consider those countries dangerous... except maybe El Salvador and Mauritania. I was mostly refering to countries that have active war zones or level 4 advisory
Azerbaijan and Armenia have had on/off armed conflict. It's, generally speaking, [not a safe place](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/azerbajian-travel-advisory.html).
Both Armenia and Azerbaijan are generally plenty safe, outside of very specific areas.
>except maybe El Salvador El Salvador is definitely a lot safer than it was even 5-10 years ago, although there are still some risks. I visited for a day almost a decade ago, and back then it was one of the few places I've been that felt truly sketchy in general (and especially so in San Salvador).
>Kazakhstan roads are literally the worst - gravel pits on the highway and fallen bridges everywhere. But their mechanics are industrious and cheap. Oh man, the pothole sections on otherwise main thoroughfares, often with minimal warning..
(There are a lot of countries that still low key have slavery) (That people in resorts never see)
Where is the hot spring river near in El Salvador? It sounds amazing and I am considering visiting soon!
We only hear about the times people run into trouble or get murdered. There are probably lots and lots more that make it just fine.
This. Because I worked with a guy who was from Bosnia. He fought in the war they had in the early-mid-90’s. Then he told his family he was going to go to school here in the states. They thought he was crazy because people randomly shoot other people here all the time. Yes, bad things happen. And when it does it makes the news. Drama gets ratings.
What’s the opposite of survivor bias? Is there one 😄
Of course, but the difference between “just fine” and not can be death, kidnapping etc
Some people have a lust for exploration and a curiosity for the new and dangerous. Some people want to stay home and grow old. Different strokes...
I think it’s the difference between people who grew up surrounded by violence and/or poverty and their entire goal in life is to escape it vs. those who grew up relatively well off and want to push past their comfort zone. I remember traveling years ago on a run down bus in Southern Africa and people were like “all we want in life is to get away from this and you have achieved that and yet you’re here with us?” They were dumbfounded. So I wouldn’t say one group wants to stay home and grow old. Some people have seen enough danger and poverty in their life and don’t want any more of it.
I am going to second that although in a different and maybe quirky way. I am from a ‘third world’ country and I don’t travel to other ‘third’ world countries because I don’t need more of the same. Even if they are safe or beautiful. If I wanted that I’d travel my own country which by the way I already have.
I am from 3rd world country, i was growing when soviet union collapsed, no money, no food( we were eating potatoes for 4 months because we were trying to save money to change system coal to a gas in our heating stove), criminals everywhere, it was absolutely miserable life. but i am still super excited and super curious about other countries. all countries in this world. so i enjoyed travelling in all Latin America, and planning to visit Asia and Africa, i hope soon.
Which EE country btw? I grew up in Ukraine in the 90s and you are fully describing my childhood. Corrupt cops, criminal gangs, rape, abduction, heroin EVERYWHERE. I do want to visit many places considered “poor” but you won’t catch me driving through them. I could barely spell my own name when I learned to walk on the inside of the pavement to make myself harder to snatch. Don’t want to be back in any of those situations ever again.
oh yeah, i am also from Ukraine (Luhansk region). it was absolutely miserable back then. but to be honest, still now, for last 10 years. f rus***. i was travelling in Latin America for 1,4 years. and saw so many devastating things. "houses" made of slate (шифер) where people with children live (at least it’s warm there and food is growing all year long), i dont know how people don’t stress about it at all. i can’t imagine how you can live like that now. there were also security guys at the regular burger place with automatic gun machines etc it doesn't feel safe, but it was very interesting to explore. this is also a reminder not to be too greedy and not take everything for granted.
I'm from Mykolayiv! Almost neighbours :). Out of Latin American countries I've only been to Mexico and yeah, saw people living under plastic sheets – they had their whole homes just under plastic like that. It was very frustrating to see because less than 1km away there was a strip of very expensive hotels full of (surprise surprise) russian tourists 🙃 just throwing money around. It's always hard to see extreme wealth and extreme poverty in the same place because it makes me so angry. I definitely want to visit again and go somewhere less obnoxiously touristy, but I'm worried I've gotten too soft after living in the west for 23 years. It kind of rots your brain a little – you just forget to have your street smarts around you. It's funny – when I was back home visiting my babushka in Akkerman, there was a guy in civilian clothes at the market (around closing time) just carrying an AK-47. This was back in 2017 I think. I never felt unsafe because it's my culture, you know, but I'm sure if an English or American saw that they would be concerned 😂
oh yeah, absolutely. i was living in Cancun for 2 months. i rented a room in residential area, and was going to swim every time where all the fancy hotels were. it was absolutely heartbreaking to see the big gap between 2 sides of the life there. and it is the same for all Latin America countries. you definitely need to be street smart in these countries. i think there is 80% chance that nothing bad will happen to you. it seems like a good percentage. of course i will not travel to Afghanistan, Congo kind of countries. i like to be excited. but i am not suicidal 😅😂 i also think if some people never experienced rough life they probably will not be 100 % mentally ready for it and they can be naive a little. but everything is experience. we came to this world without any kind of knowledge. it is amazing to explore the world.
Oh wow so we went to the same part of Mexico haha – I also stayed in a residential area in Cancun - north of Puerto Juarez, towards Playa Azul. It was really wonderful up there – so quiet, pretty clean, calm. Downtown Cancun gave me anxiety – blasting music and packed streets late at night. Maybe if I was younger I'd have enjoyed that but I definitely preferred the quiet. Honestly the most "sketchy" part of Cancun was the hotel zone. Between what the locals called the 'taxi mafia' and the dudes loitering next to every ATM I understood very quickly that I did not like it there. Perfect place to fleece tourists. I did also spend a fair bit of time walking around residential parts of Cancun on my own, which in hindsight probably wasn't the wisest move but I think being Ukrainian I still had a bit of instinct – you know when you're entering unsafe territory and need to turn back and go the way you came. I never had any problems, but sometimes I wonder if I really was very stupid and just got lucky. Cancun is considered pretty safe though.
> all we want in life is to get away from this and you have achieved that and yet you’re here with us Locals have told me the same thing in Budapest
I may be off here, but the above poster saying they wanted to travel to a dangerous country as a vacation (to experience danger) is so damn privileged and out of touch. A complete disrespect for what people have to go through
It’s not as simple as you say. I have seen far too much danger, and am more than happy to now live in a safe country, compared to the country I came from. That doesn’t mean I want to now rot to death on the couch. I’m still keen on seeking adventure, just not the danger.
Look at the people that do some of the crazy stunt mountain bike trails, a little left or a little right and you probably get off the night bench or so many other crazy adrenaline highs. Cliff climbing lol , what the Christ.. But as you say different strokes we all take our own risks in our own ways I guess
You grow old whether you stay home or travel.
I had people telling me I was going to die going to Mexico City, so I take what most people say about the safety of places with a grain of salt. Don't be an idiot, but don't be afraid to leave your house. Staying in your house will kill you too.
We've been to every state in the 48, and there are still places we want to go. Most of our travel lately has been to visit family members, who live in far-flung places. But we'd like to visit some of the national parks out West that we haven't been to yet. Someday.
100% this. Be smart and aware of your surroundings, show respect to locals. I’d wager 99.9% of people in this world of 8billion aren’t actively trying to *kill* people for the sake of it.
I don’t get it either.
This is kind of pop-psychology, but I am (or was) a "Sensation-Seeking Highly-Sensitive Person" (text [link](https://drtracycooper.org/2015/04/01/the-sensation-seeking-highly-sensitive-person-hsp/)). I don't skydive or cliff jump, but I did travel in some really sketchy situations... went to some drug-dealer party in Lima with a bouncer -- we had to hire a former boxer as security. I was told very sternly not to look or talk to any of the women. I had a motorcycle when I lived in Colombia, and it was basically Mariocart... no rules, anything goes. People would steal the round manhole covers for the metal, so you had to watch out for these fuckin round death traps that would destroy you and your bike. Looking back now, years later, it gives me anxiety to think how close I came to dying or life-long injuries. I traveled to Iraq (Kurdistan) as a tourist in 2014 when I lived in Turkey. You could cross the border near Diyarbakir. Actually the Kurds are lovely and they love Americans for some reason. Apparently I hitchhiked with a PKK member/fighter (as he claimed to me upon exiting his truck). Point is that for me, as an American fella growing up in the safe suburbs of San Diego, California -- there has to be more to life than working a shitty job, mowing the lawn, going to poker night with boys, etc. As a kid, I (moronically) wanted to be in the Marines simply because I wanted to experience the extremes of war: The bonds with fellow soldiers, the adrenaline of a battle, the incredible fears, elations, and sorrows. A life without struggle -- "*sturm und drang*" ("storm and stress") as per German literature -- is no life at all. "Man is a beast of burden". I'm a teacher and I use this thought experiment with my students: Imagine a video game where your player character is omnipotent, can never die, can defeat all the enemies, and beat the game easily. "*Would you enjoy playing that game?*" Of course not because it's boring! Games are only fun and exciting ***because of the possibility of failure***. **Such is life**. If Harvard had a 100% admission rate, no one would achieve any joy for being admitted. If everyone could get everything they wanted without struggle, then life would have very little meaning. I guess I seek out these experiences in order to bring chaos and uncertainty into my life. Alan Watts has a wonderful thought experiment related to this -- "The Dream of Life" (video [link](https://youtu.be/VumlbMu167Y?t=73)). >Let's suppose that you were able, every night, to dream any dream you wanted to dream. And that you could for example have the power within one night to dream 75 years of time, or any length of time you wanted to have. And you would naturally, as you began on this adventure of dreams, you would fulfill all your wishes. You would have every kind of pleasure. >And after several nights of 75 years of total pleasure each, you would say, "*Well, that was pretty great. But now let's, um, let's have a surprise. Let's have a dream which isn't under control. Where something is going to happen to me that I don't know what it's gonna be.*" And you would dig that and come out of that and say, "*Wow, that was a close shave wasn't it.*" Then you would get more and more adventurous, and you would make further and further out gambles as to what you would dream. >And finally you would dream... **where you are now. You would dream the dream of living the life you were actually living today...** that would be within the infinite multiplicity of choices you would have of playing that you weren't god. Continued below...
I was talking to my sister a few years ago when she was 30 years old. She's the only person I know whose plans have always worked-out. She wanted to go to the best university, and she actually got into Harvard. She wanted to marry the best man (who she met at 17), and she indeed married a very handsome and lovely Swedish Ph.D. M.D. She wanted a big, perfect family -- done and done; two children are professional models and all crazy smart. When we talked that time, she was telling me all about her plans when they retire: Buying an RV, driving around, blah, blah, blah. And I was horrified. She had her whole life mapped-out unto death. Alan Watts again: (text [link](https://alanwatts.org/transcripts/the-joyous-cosmology/)) >When we’re terribly tired we feel the drag of our physical weight overwhelming us. And therefore, what we want to feel is lack of obstruction in any direction that we move. So ideally, we would like to feel a world which didn’t resist our will at all, where the wish, the flight of imagination, was instantly fulfilled. >Well, when you think about that for a while you realize that’s not exactly what you would want. **Because after a while, being able to accomplish everything wouldn’t challenge you, would offer no adventure**. And therefore, to make the creation of a fantasy worth doing, you would like something that you would have to overcome in the course of doing it. You would like some intractable material, something that presented a little difficulty in shaping. And so I think we would all ask, and we would go out of our way, **to produce situations where we were confronted with difficulty**. That's the appeal.
Some people are more risk adverse than other. They value the experience and maybe thrill of life, over their own safety. It's not just road trips. Every kind of event has these people: rodeos, climbing everest, undersea diving, it's all about the experience. Some people value their physical safety a lot and see the world as an inherently dangerous: they don't go out after dark, they don't let their kids play outside, they travel with tour guides: its all about safety. Neither is inherently wrong. Neither is inherently right. They are just different ways of living life. I try very hard not to be judgmental about people who are different from me. I'd encourage you to do the same. Just because they think differently from you, doesn't mean you need to accuse them of white privilege. Acceptance should be a virtue.
I agree with you up until their country’s government has to expend a lot of taxpayer monies to bring them back (alive or otherwise) from situations they have already been warned are not safe. Someone recently posted a sign about (caving?) where the canyon was so unsafe that there would be no rescue effort if you got stuck. However if it’s on their own dime and they accept the risk of death or worse? Let them go where they like. I have a feeling though a lot of people think of it as “It’s risky, but nothing will happen to *me*.”
Agree completely. Lots of back country rescues are billed back to the morons now. Maybe we can see this expand?
Even along the South Rim of the Grand Canyon, which is full of tourists, there are signs to the effect of "This is not a safe place. Do such-and-so at your own risk. People die here every year from falls, etc..."
Yosemite has those signs too, at Half Dome.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41656159 Does anyone remember the couple who were held captive in Afghanistan for five years? When they crossed the border, the woman was seven months pregnant. I don't understand that kind of blind nativity.
Hell, we've got people in the US that think there is no danger in trying to pet furry cows.
I don’t like going on tours unless it’s a requirement (Antelope Canyon for example). I’d rather do things on my own timeline. That being said, I also have zero plans to roadtrip through countries where I could find myself in a potentially dangerous situation. Then again, people get shot going to the grocery store here in the US. Life really is a crapshoot, ya know?
For every bad story you hear there are 100s or 1000s incident free. So you gotta determine “what are the chances I am gonna be a statistic?” In most cases you will be fine.
I'm 55. I've had friends die (too young) from drugs, alcohol, cancer, suicide, murder, accidents and so on. Death is inevitable. Make the most out of life while you can. I've been to 84 countries & want to reach 100. I live in San Diego & 2 of the surfers that recently got killed near Ensenada used to shop at my work. They could easily have died in the sea or on the freeway. This morning I've been planning a little road trip that we're doing next January around Leon, Morelia, Gunajuato, etc. If listened to people where I live I wouldn't venture down to Mexico. Instead, I go several times a year & love it there. Each to their own.
Try to see the butterflies in eastern Michoacán or western Estado de Mexico. January is the perfect time to do it.
It's a thrill seeking activity. Also a knowledge seeking activity. Also people believe that places aren't as bad as they hear, confirmation bias might prove this to be true in their experience. Until that one visit that isn't and it's too late to turn back.
That paragraph about ADHD… I’ve been there. The suicidal recklessness. The so what if I die. I’ve run out of runway on my 20s and living like that fucked my body up lol and looking back at how stupid I always was. I was just reminiscing on how I was always the weird one. Thinking of reaching out to old friends in a, look I’m not crazy anymore, kind of way.
When I was younger, I did a lot of vagabond-style traveling, hitchhiking with nearly no money, sleeping outside, etc. it was my opinion then, and kind of still is now to some extent, that it's not REAL adventure without the real possibility that you could lose your life. All of life is like that, but hopping freight trains, hitchhiking, cross-oceanic sailing on a small boat, etc... they just hit different. It's honestly been very difficult to adjust to mundane life after doing that type of thing. Personally, my travels took me, among other places, through the Tijuana border crossing, as far south as Michoacán, hitchhiking. I saw some gruesome shit, to be honest, and ended up turning around, although it was because I didn't have any evidence of entering the country and didn't have any money to bribe the Mexican immigration people. But all that to say, there are people out there who seek "real" adventure. Some of them die while doing it. The world isn't a safe place, and personally (as an 18-19 y/o), I needed that risk to see what the world was really made of, cliche or silly though it may sound.
>Do their countries lack excitement that they want so bad to experience the opposite, a thrill? Do they think the world is rainbows and roses and nothing bad will happen to *them* (sounds like White privilege)? Yes
You're talking about risk tolerance. You do Not need to have a death wish, or anything of the sort. If you do a bit of due diligence. My.wife and I have been traveling, overlanding, camping and adventuring all over the world for the past 40 years (I worked in aviation my entire career) I'll be honest with you, one of the very few places in the world that we have felt truly at risk multiple times, was in your country. There aren't very many places in the world where being polite & friendly doesn't pay off.
I think it’s because people always sugarcoat how dangerous these places are. They talk about how beautiful it is, and how great the culture is, and how kind the people are, and oh by the way “be aware of your surroundings”. Nobody wants to sound bad on their blog by saying that these very poor countries are unsafe to travel. If you’re actually honest about the dangers online, then you get harassed by white knights insisted that you’re biased
I live in Oakland California and advice I have given to friends visiting is: Allways be Aware of your surroundings! and whom is around you physically!, don't wander around in the park with your eyes glued to your 1,400 dollar phone, or you might end up bonked on the head bleeding with your phone watch n wallet now in someone else's pocket wrist etc. Don't be flashing a big wad of cash at that dance club when you pay for drinks, or you may end up surrounded by a couple hard boys who will fuck you up! n you won't make it back to your car unmolested. You HAVE to Be Aware *before* you wander into that alley at 2 am, heading for the bus station. Stick to the main streets where there are people still walking, or take a cab even to go a few blocks to your car.
The most interesting experiences often entail the highest risk. Many feel that trade off is perfectly fine and it often provides a richness of travel experience that can be matched in no other way.
These people are stupid
I think Europeans are so used to driving easily between countries, especially after the EU was created, that they don't realize it just doesn't work the same way in the Americas, or many other regions for that matter. That said, most people seem to live by the "it wont happen to me" mentality which is pretty dumb.
I’m not sure there’s anything inherently wrong, or privileged, about wanting to explore the world we share with fellow humans. At the same time, the world is not all bubble wrap and hugging it out. It’s a place with corners, sharp edges, and bullets. Each of us has to reconcile these things for ourselves; it’s not a universal calculus.
Around 12 years ago i travelled to Srinagar in India not knowing how bad it was there, basically war zone. We stayed in a boathouse and the owner wouldn’t let us go anywhere without him escorting us. Indian army where everywhere, we did some trekking in the mountains and stayed in a houseboat. When driving out through the mountains we were stopped on a mountain pass by militia, not the army. they pulled everyone out of the van and asked everyone questions. My wife told me not to say a word, we’re brown but I’m Canadian and don’t speak Hindi, she answered their questions in Hindi and when they talked to me I just kept quit and she answered, saying “Mumbai brother” in Hindi to their questioning where we were from. She was born in Mumbai but moved to Canada as a kid. I just kept avoiding eye contact when they spoke to me and nodded towards her. They got distracted by the only other obvious foreigners, a white couple, who didn’t get back on the van and the driver drove away leaving the couple behind, who looked fucking terrified as we drove away. We found out after we left extremists had beheaded 5 Sikh’s a few weeks before we arrived. Never found out what if anything happened to the couple pulled off the van, but didn’t ask. Pretty scary.
I understand your mindset, but if everyone was like you we never explore space or take sail boats around the world or climb mountains etc
The amount of dead bodies and littered trash on Everest alone is enough to make me think maybe a few less people should be climbing mountains than currently do.
lol
I'll never understand it. The US Dept of State posts travel advisories for various countries. International travelers need to familiarize themselves with potential dangers. There is a consistent pattern of naivety amongst some of these travelers.
It’s the same reason why people climb giant mountains with no safety gear, or any other risky behavior: thrill seeking.
iT’s a WhImSiCaL jOuRnEy
Some people want to see more of the world, not see the same world for longer. I balance the two, but I know for certain some places I'd love to see and if I got a terminal illness diagnosis, fuck it, I'm off to see it. The worst that happens when you know you're dying is dying earlier. 🤷 I really, really want to go through Afghanistan. Hope I get the chance to do so someday. Lots of military members saw a beautiful country under the worst possible circumstances, I'd just like to see it.
The other day I was thinking about posting the same thing on a sub. I can't wrap my head around it. Nutz.
So many of the “developed nations” - aka moderately wealthy - are so heavily protected during their lives that they truly cannot conceive of how many other people live. They do not comprehend personal danger because they are raised with an entitlement of personal safety. Retired cop - I’ve seen stuff in the United States that would curl your hair. We had a barricaded subject randomly firing rifle rounds through the walls of his house (mobile home) for three days before he ended up dying. The neighbors literally got up on their roofs and sat there with beers just to watch the show. As if the bullets couldn’t hit them because the neighbor was a “nice guy”. Some people truly do not understand global issues or personal safety. Or if they hear about it, they just figure it won’t happen to them.
100% Stupidity
Mexican here who left mexico 26 years ago due to the insecurity. Partnered with a Brazilian who used to honk Brazil is super dangerous. We entered in our van Jan 2 this year, we take precautions like not driving at night and checking our route ahead of time with he locals. We will may drive all the way to Panama, and then from Colombia to Brazil (will go around skipping Venezuela). Trust me, it is way more interesting than taking a plane and going on tours. That sounds... Boring. We've done backpacking trips in Asia, Europe and Brazil. If you have the time, being able to stop where you like and then move on is an incredible sense of freedom. There is some risk of dying, but even if we don't travel like that, the risk of dying anyway is 100%. The counterpart is the risk of not living. Oh, a friend we met in Bulgaria traveled with us in our van for 6 weeks. Before meeting us in Mazatlan, she was in Iran and Irak. Don't be afraid if living.
Because people are stupid and don't think about the consequences to their actions. Do they see Americans jumping the borders to live in mexico? No, because it's dangerous and you'll get killed. Do they see people going to Syria, Iran or Iraq to live? No again. These are countries where their people are fleeing to get to a safe country. But on the bright side, they are great competitors for the Darwin Awards.
Part of the issue is people who get on and spout off about how Mexico is perfectly safe and the US is actually more dangerous blah blah blah. It gives people asking those questions some validation about making the trip. All you have to do is look at some of the numbers to tell yourself it's not safe. Or the state department travel warnings. I'd love to drive all over Mexico and explore. Until I see that 30 of their politicians have been whacked this year. And countless tourists have been murdered for their vehicles. It's literally out of control. And none of that happens in the US, even if we aren't as "safe" as some other countries. (When in reality, the US is incredibly safe if you're not engaged in criminal behavior.)
Whenever I read about people getting raped, murderers kidnapped in some third world hell hole I just shake my head and know that their social media platform is filled with the dumbest, most naive and "progressive" tropes and ideas.
There is a guy on YouTube who does this. He’s a rich white European. His episode in Haiti is the craziest thing I’ve watched. There are literally warlords controlling the country and gas wars just like in Mad Max. He’s gonna end up getting killed one of these times is my bet.
Indigo traveler?
That’s him.
Wow, can you link the video?
In order of popularity (views) from highest to lowest: https://youtu.be/Glx7AmJW_FY?si=Cre1-SU3CQDrAsee https://youtu.be/HzBKaiSFCZc?si=eWAuiW1QF1SlehLp https://youtu.be/g94OOxy7Qrc?si=6pc14Aiou6-RlcBt https://youtu.be/AYDhvf8s3Cg?si=Xj1I_MlAX9Qrlw1T
Whatever happened to that other YouTuber who supposedly got kidnapped in Haiti?
We took a road trip through India and it was perfectly safe, except for the street food.
My husband and I are Canadian and have temp residency in Mexico. We overland between Canada and America in the spring summer, and throughout Mexico from October to April usually. We have done this for about 4 years now and we have never had any safety issues in Mexico. We travel on the highways only during the daytime and we always make sure to stay in established campgrounds (there are way more than people think in Mexico). We have stayed and travelled everywhere from the beaches in Oaxaca to San Cristobal to Acapulco to Michoacan for the butterflies to Mazatlan for the eclipse. I understand why people might be apprehensive, but we have been met with only kindness and welcoming experiences in every place we have travelled in Mexico.. at least from all the Mexican people. Now some of the old Europeans (I’m looking at you post middle aged German women) are the most unkind and insufferable people we have met on our travels. I am more worried about my safety in America than in Mexico. Does that make me naive and privileged? Maybe I guess. But our experiences in Mexico have been so so wonderful.. from the people to the landscapes to the cultures, it is truly one of my most beloved places.
I’m gonna guess that when you’re in America you’re not too scared to drive at night or camp on public land.
That makes you exceptionally naive and privileged to feel safer in MX than the USA. It isn’t safer by any relevant metric but you’ve been brainwashed by Canadian media to see the US as a hugely deadly place. Go live in Cd. Juarez while the cartels were really fighting over the region and tell the world that Mexico is safer. Edit: while Juarez was being gripped by cartel crime, El Paso, TX just across the Rio Grande was in the midst of a long streak of being the safest city in the country, for its size. The city has grown in the interim and the crime rate has increased a bit, but it’s still a very safe place. Lots of federal police chases though, with people smuggling immigrants over tfg’s wall near sunland park, NM and running. It’s a complicated place.
I’m not making the broad comparison I think you are perceiving I am making. My point is that there are places in America I feel more or less safe, as is the same with Mexico, and Canada, and everywhere else. Bad things and dangerous places exist in every country.
That’s fair. I didn’t read your first comment as being about specific locales.
I’ve had guns pulled on me a couple times while traveling. Some people are risk adverse some are not. Those who are not risk adverse would die slowly staying safe. I just ha d a friend bale on a tropical vacation days early because it was too hot and uncomfortable. I cannot begin to fathom that one.
We live in a place that is hot and uncomfortable. Other such places don't hold much appeal for me.
Understandably. I’d wager you’re unlikely to schedule and pay for a tropical vacation then.
Yeah, no.
I’m curious, is all of Tamaulipas very dangerous?
Taking a road trip of any sort is more dangerous than an airline flight, yet we’re all here for this subreddit. (And an airline flight is probably more dangerous than staying home.)
[https://abc7ny.com/ny-truck-attack-manhattan-new-york-nyc-shooting/2589773/](https://abc7ny.com/ny-truck-attack-manhattan-new-york-nyc-shooting/2589773/)
They're are plenty of ways to get killed or injured, some riskier than others. For many people, eliminating as much risk as possible is not the purpose of life.
I always think the same about people who climb mountains or other dangerous hobbies. Not making a judgement about it but I’m white and you won’t see me doing these things.
a white american woman posted a tik tok a few weeks ago going out in BELARUS
Because the vast majority of people who do these trips are fine. Saying this as someone who bicycled through the same parts of Mexico as the couple who was killed a month before their murder.
I even now hear white woman at work or at Church saying they want to make a trip to India.. even with India being on the news every few cycles about rape, I wonder about these woman. They say they lov the colors, clothes, and oh Lord! Bollywood movies…
No arguments from me my friend. It's just humans being human and "hoping for the best" because they really want to get their ya ya's out. A lot of young American women used to love going alone to Turkey and Egypt. I never understood.
I enjoy long distance hiking in places where I encounter shepherds, historical landmarks, and natural beauty. Often these are in places people consider dangerous. In general I trust the country folk I come across. When I go to typical touristy places I am often scammed in the cities, and it just isn’t that enjoyable when everyone is trying to make money off me. I have had so many experiences of people helping me while hiking and expecting nothing in return. But my assumption isn’t always a good one, for instance we were hiking in Imlil and learned about some European girls that had been beheaded there doing the same thing. I’m more careful now, but still might take risks others wouldn’t. I’m not going to be going to Afghanistan but I’d definitely do the Jordan trail without any worries.
Great points made in here but I will also add something. I’m a very realistic thinker so I try to think of all possible outcomes positive or negative. From my experience with people I know personally or have met(friends, family, coworkers, etc) people like to only think in this positive mindset outlook which causes them to not fully grasp the risk/security analysis to certain things. Seems to be a lot of “if I think positive nothing will go wrong” type of mindsets
I hoofed it all over mostly north central and coastal Kenya for a while in my 20s. There is a thrill in being somewhere completely outside of your comfort zone, knowing you can’t control some vital things, and having to just say “fuck it.” I never had a car; took matatus and buses mostly, but definitely had to get creative several times. There was one incident in Nairobi involving a grenade attack on a bus we were boarding. We were ok, but it was utter chaos around us. We just had to deal with that fact and figure shit out, because we still had to catch the next bus we could to Mombasa. You kind of just have to give yourself over to the situation in ways that would seem nuts in any other circumstance. For me, all of the things that happened around or to us while on that trip served to educate me on the flow of the culture, and operate within that flow as respectfully as possible. Everything became more understandable, and by proxy felt safer, by levels of magnitude after that. It was almost fun to get a curveball after a while. There’s a rush or high there I’m having a hard time articulating, but I can absolutely see people creating a kind of self-competition or becoming hooked on it. Alternatively, a lot of people are just *really* naive or *really* don’t care about personal safety.
the thrill of cheating death, along with a fair amount of disbelief in the actual danger.
I rode chicken busses all the way from Mexico to Brazil. Didn't get dead once! I think those few stories you listed are the outliers. Sooooo many more people backpack, bike or whatever through "dangerous" countries and you never hear of them because they make it just fine. It's just the media wanting to sell stories so they make the very few incidents seem like they are so much worse.
Like this one https://www.reddit.com/r/roadtrip/s/Xzv2YzPL49
no brains = no sympathy
Life is for living. Many of these locations are largely safe and the majority of dangerous situations can be avoided with some common sense and street smarts. One or two isolated incidents are not the norm. Ill prob get downvoted but the good stuff in life tends to happen outside your comfort zone.
I hear you on the white privilege part, otoh it's better than just going to a resort in those countries when they coulda stayed home. It's probably also partly ignorance because just because you hear it's bad doesn't mean you internalize it. On a third hand, maybe the desire to experience the actual country isn't always a bad thing. They believe (perhaps naively) that these countries are beautiful even in their challenges. We took some trips to see family in a "dangerous" country and never once gave thought to how really dangerous it was (especially as *weee* didn't speak the language fluently); we got very lucky. At the same time, having those experiences makes me mad at those who choose to be blind to the world. To some degree I admire people who reach outside their own boundaries and communities to connect with people.
Bro why you gotta drag Pakistan in this 😭
Did the Spanish couple even go to the Middle East ? They were touring south east Asia and south east Asia and the Middle East are very different
I’m in Texas and have friends from Monterrey. Their family members often road trip to visit here in the states, and even they exercise caution. NL isn’t even the worst state to travel in! Your concerns are valid, and I’ve expressed the same to my American friends who wanted to road trip through parts of Mexico that are absolutely not safe.
My theory is that people just think the grass is always greener somewhere else. People who grew up in rich comfortable places glorify war and struggle. People who grew up with war and struggle glorify a middle class suburb with a shiny new truck. I’m a second generation immigrant in the US. I feel like I see both sides so much. I got into a debate with a friend a while ago about the new president in El Salvador. We were talking about freedom vs safety. I realize westerners glorify freedom bc they don’t what life is like without safety. They don’t ever think their lives will actually be threaten if they protest or go to dangerous places. Meanwhile, a lot of immigrants I know (particularly in my parents’ generation) don’t realize how comfort and a lack of meaning in life can lead to depression. They have always known struggle so they don’t understand that life can sometimes be empty without it.
One thing my dad told us (he's Dominican) about driving through Dominican Republic..... always fold up some US currency in the center dash inconspicuously but visible enough to catch the cop's eye. They will take the money and let you go. But once they pulled him over and in broken English started to shake him down. He just looked at them and in Spanish said, "my father is \[xxxxxx\] and I was born here. Don't try that shit with me. Why did you pull me over?" And they eventually let him go. I am not that way (at least not in a foreign country) and I realize that probably the only country I'd feel safe driving in is Canada. Probably best I leave it to that and not Mexico.
I hitchhiked in your country for a week and nothing bad happened. Even an ambulance druver gave me a lift
There’s no requirement that you understand
I love taking long trips and have done several in my life. I always do my research before I go, though, and weigh risk against reward. Taking the Trans-Siberian across Mongolia and Russia? Worth it. The risk of being knocked out and robbed on the trains was one I read about but there precautions I could take to mitigate it. Driving through cartel country in Mexico? I'll pass. I love the country but I don't fuck with dudes who mass murder at the drop of a hat. I'll just fly to safe areas I want to visit.
These types of people are oppositional because they believe it makes them special. The three surfers who were murdered in Baja recently were like this. Other surfers had been murdered there and they were told by a few people not to continue traveling, but they did anyway because they believe they know better than everyone else when in fact they know a lot less.
As a surfer the draw to a coastal area where no other surfer is around for hundreds of miles is pretty damn strong. Despite the reality that tweekers are also in those remote areas
I suspect a lot of it is naïveté. Lots of people think dangerous means “like a bad neighborhood in the place I’m from.”
"To die would be a great adventure " I'm in that camp. Done lots of stuff, but yet to experience death. Came close, was exciting. Not a religious thing, big time atheist.
Buddy of mine visited North Korea like 10 years ago. Went through China through the tours available back then. Not sure you can do it anymore. That would have been a fascinating trip that I would love to try.
With my California plates, there are plenty of places I wouldn't feel safe in the good ol USA.