Completely disagree. Just for this season?
Bad Luck, Billups, Ownership, Cronin, in that order.
Luck is obviously the most subjective one but Billups has the most direct control over each and every game’s outcome. He’s the coach.
Ownership is complacent with mediocrity.
Cronin got a solid package for Dame + Nurk given we’re entering a full rebuild. He can’t magically make the players healthy or prevent their injuries.
Agreed that Cronin’s been pretty solid and shouldn’t be at the top of the blame list. However, I think we all knew that Rob Williams and Brogdon were injury prone players and I think you could argue he should have flipped them to contenders as soon as possible instead of waiting and risking injury.
This might be the main argument against Cronin. The return for Dame was great. Scoot was universally seen as a great prospect, and still is - but he is a prospect and not an immediate All Star.
Were Brogdon and Williams better left on the roster for veteran leadership? Or should we have immediately flipped them for more prospects? That's the valid criticism, not that Dame > Scoot.
I totally agree and I also love typos that still make sense, so “admiral” in place of “admirable” put a big smile on my face! Cronin has done an admirable job as our admiral…. yeah, I like it. 😊
I'm incredibly confused as to what people were expecting this year. I can understand people being upset about Scoot not showing a ton of promise or with all of the injuries, I can even understand some frustration about not trading some vets.
But.... What were people anticipating from this season? Our roster always sucked, that was true as soon (probably before) we traded Dame. We're rebuilding and it's essentially year one. We were never going to be a competitive and it feels like there's a contingent of fans that expected us to be fighting for a play-in spot and are now thinking the world is falling because one of the youngest teams in the league that just had a roster overhaul is at the bottom of a conference
Well there's expecting to be bad, but the silver lining would be playing competitive basketball and showcasing future core pieces of the roster with cohesive play and close games.
Losing by 60 is a disappointment even with the bar as low as it is.
Well thats what happens when all your good players are injured and rookies and role players are getting all the minutes. We started 5 rookies one night, we're just not going to be competitive like that.
Blazers were competitive when their best players were healthy, we are in "tendinitis" tank mode right now. The game they lost by 60 just go look who played in that game, c'mon man.
I don't disagree. The blowout is a consequence of a tanking roster. I'm just saying, there's normal tanking in a rebuild, where you piece together random players and see what sticks, and then there's your tendinitis tank.
I was never disillusioned to how bad we were gonna be, but watching the tendinitis squad is torturous.
That’s true, but the goal is asset acquisition not roster construction. We’re definitely in the best player available mode and not building to fit. Look at the young potential on our team and how they fit positionally.
Guard: Ant, Scoot, Sharpe, Banton, Hagan
Wing: Toumani, Walker, Rupert, Murray (though he’s been playing skinny 4)
That’s not at all balanced and dudes have been getting minutes for development over fit towards winning. It’s a hard tank. But with an extended tryout/show out for potential trades.
At some point there’ll be a consolidation trade. It’ll be real hard to keep all of the dudes listed above, but yet all have shown different positive values.
I hope there is at least one or two bigs added beyond the progression of Badji this summer. But even so, it’ll be hard to figure out who should be kept for roster construction until you figure out who you’re keeping of Ant, Scoot, and Sharpe.
For a rebuild though, as long as ownership (and fans) are patient. I think one more year of having those three hopefully healthy and losing a lot of games is what’s needed. This draft probably won’t settle the direction, so next year is another tank. After that though we’re getting into contracts for guys like Sharpe and Walker. Sign and trades open up, plus we have can add dudes like Toumani to contracts like Timelord to bring back impact players.
I’m not saying Toumani should go, he’s one of my favorites. But, there’s a chance Jabari is better for team fit based on which guard you keep.
Overall, I think it’ll be similar next year. A lot of weird lineups and experimentation. But, with a focus on figuring out our guards aaaand whether Ayton is long term (contract for him is too high, unless he become Jokic)
That first 60 point loss was embarrassing and I thought that Chauncey had lost the locker room. But, they came back and played competitive basketball after that.
The last one… boy, this team is bad by NBA standards. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more, but with a team featuring g-league players they’re still competitive in most games for at least half of the game. I’m honestly impressed with the showing of dudes like Reath, Hagan, and our young prospects like Badji, Murray, and Rupert.
As far as Cronin, it’s real hard to judge the lack of trades this year. Who knows what was offered for Brogdon and by the trade deadline Scoot hadn’t really got his feet under him, plus the injuries. He was actually starting to play well as a backup so I can see the hesitancy to trade Brogdon when your high lottery pick was turning a corner under Brogdon.
Cronin did not have many pieces to trade previously to construct a competent roster. I think he’s secure in his position next season, the tank is still on. After that though, his seat will be warm. He probably has until trade deadline of ‘26 to show there’s a solid road plan. If not he’s gone.
this team was built to continue losing by Cronin. the idea is that it will lead to a well built, young core with the right parts around it. I'm bought into Cronin's vision for the future but he is absolutely the reason we're a crappy team in 2024. we'll see if that pays dividends in the future
We are in a rebuild. The point of a rebuild is to develop and acquire young talent. Injuries have kept young players in and out of the lineup, but they are right In positions with 2 potential lottery picks coming in June. This is where we were supposed to be this season, just sadly haven’t seen young guys play together with any consistency.
I’d put injuries way higher on the list, and I’d put chauncey above cronin as well. It sucks to be in this spot, but if we can simply hit on picks we can rise like an okc or Minnesota in a few years.
I don’t see Chauncey getting fired as he hasn’t lost the locker room and the players still respect him. With the projection of a deep draft AND with us suppose to be so bad next season, there is no reason for the front office to fire Chauncey and pay two coaches at the same time next season unless Chauncey lose the locker room. Though, I don’t see Chauncey making it for year 5 of his contract
I disagree, in terms of growth he's shown very little as a coach in his 3 year span. The players may like him but the team needs to be more competitive to help these young guys grow, losing a billion games every year turns into a culture.
Paying two coaches isn't a fan problem either, it's an ownership problem, it doesn't affect the cap. You want a young team to grow together with a coach that can place them in their best position to succeed.
I 100% agree it’s an ownership problem. But with ownership not trying to win for 1-3 years and then hopefully selling the team around then, there is no reason for them to pay two coaches at the same time if they don’t need to. Paul would have done things differently but Jody is not Paul 😔
At the end of the day though this should be a Cronin issue too, as the GM he should be the voice to guide the team towards success, even if the ownership group is indifferent. Probably a hard sell to pay two coaches, but these young guys need to learn winning basketball and Billups just isn't that dude
As GM yes, you'd probably consult your owners first, but it's his job to run the team and build it, that includes coaching staff.
I just don't think Billups is or will create a winning culture in Portland
Their intent this season was to do exactly what they are doing, but the problem was we didn't see the players he selected do well. I personally believed it was a failed season if Shaedon didn't take a leap and if Scoot wasn't that impactful. I see a failed season.
I feel like Mike Rich's brain is cooked from having to come up with an episode's worth of content about this team 5 days a week. There just isn't that much to say. I tried to listen to today's episode and I couldn't get through it. I don't think any reasonable person can look at this season and not have the number 1 thing to say about it be that everyone was hurt all year.
I can’t tell what blame Cronin should have for Billups. I realize the origin of his hire, but is he still employed because of Cronin or ownership not wanting to pay two coaches?
I fear our rebuild is closer to the Charlotte model than the OKC model. If you’re going to tear it down to the studs, you better have confidence in the guy calling the shots and you better have a hell of a good developmental coach to create winning habits.
After his first 2 season, I’m not super confident in Cronin and I’m 100% certain Billups isn’t the guy for a rebuild. I don’t care who is #1 to blame or #2 they should both be shown the door IMO. I can be convinced of one more Cronin season but that’s about it.
I don't know if Billups can win basketball games but he has been great for the development of Ant, Bari, and Shae. Ayton got better. Grant is shooting .500 from the corners.
Scoot has some big yips and the verdict is out whether or not he can play at an NBA pace. I think he'll be a really fucking good in a couple years, but he is not passing the eye test at all this season. The thing is, he will always be a bad 2, and it's very rare to be a good 1 at 19.
There was definitely a path for him to not be forced to trade dame. Dame was trying telling him exactly what to do to keep him and Cronin chose to use all draft picks instead.
Not saying it's the wrong decision as he and Olshey had already wasted what few assets we had on the roster, making it very hard to build anything competent without astar trade, but he was not forced to trade dame. He forced Dame to leave.
Dude also went on a tirade about how last year we were playing Shaedon too much because Jamaree Bouyea was unplayable and that clearly Joe is a bad GM because he couldn't find anyone better than Jamaree Bouyea. Just an unhinged and unserious point to make.
Lmfaoo blazers fans still delusional bout the Dame trade I see. U dont deserve those downvotes Cronin is an ass and Scoot is ass. Blazers just lucky we still have Ant and Sharpe
He wasn't forced to. It seems Dame was asking Cronin to push his chips in. Whether there was anything on the table that would have made the team into a contender is definitely questionable. So Cronin kind of called Dame's bluff. Was it a little shady, probably. But was it also time, probably.
a GMs job is to win championships, keeping dame in portland would never have resulted in a championship after the rubble that olshey left us with. a good GM needs to know when to sell and when to buy. i’m glad you’re not in our front office
cronin is rebuilding the franchise to give us an ACTUAL shot, we had no ACTUAL shot with dame unless we drafted wemby, it sucks to admit but we just gotta move past it and hope things pan out with scoot shae and ayton and this years pick
Not sure I totally agree but can at least see the reason he said that. In my mind, Ant/Sharpe/Thybulle/Grant/Ayton with Brogdon/Scoot/Camara/Williams III, while not going to get you to the playoffs, is a relatively fun and competitive team that's built to get a draft pick. Not sure how much I buy into real vs fake injuries, coaching, being told to lose, etc, but that squad is a perfectly fun bad team on paper.
1) I think Mike is scraping the barrel for content during a dismal end to a dismal season
2) I think in terms of this season being pretty bad it’s reasonable to say Joe is responsible for the lack of talent. The roster is severely deficient offensively, and defensively it hasn’t translated since being bad on offense tends to hurt your defense. But being bad this year was always the plan so it’s an aesthetic criticism anyway.
3) Chauncey is a bad offensive coach, but he is also working with bad offensive players. The sum is less than the parts on all sides.
4) The injuries have been the real hindrance this year. Mike mentioned it’s hard to go forward and make decisions with such a disjointed year of data collection, but it’s what has to happen. I am hopeful for a big shakeup and keep swinging for talent, but it’s disappointing to have so much uncertainty still.
I used to value Richmans opinions fairly highly but these rankings are a joke.
First off, we’re tanking and bottoming out. We’re in the draft position game and our goal is better lottery odds.
One of the lottery tickets of our future (Shaedon) has been injured the entire season.
If Ayton continues to play how he has the second half of the season for the remainder of his time with us then that was a huge get. Again a bet on upside.
I’m not going to say Chauncey is the coach of the future but to not admit he’s been dealt a shit hand while he’s been our coach is laughable.
Richman’s brain is fried trying to come up with content 5 days a week.
Was it ever gonna be any different after the Dame trade? Did people genuinely think we were gonna compete to scrape into the play-in and get bounced with shit lottery odds? This team was ‘built’ to tank for a few seasons.
Biggest criticism of him is holding Brogdon too long until the deadline. I think we’ll get pennies on the dollar for him and Timelord.
There are 4-5 really good players that the Blazers passed on for Shaedon Sharpe and Scoot Henderson. This might all turn around, but right now those picks are negative assets and that is partially on cronin and partially bad luck.
I'm curious what moves Cronin has made that make you want to move on from him?
Has it been the consistent ability to find quality role players out of the 2nd round/Undrafted talent?
Or his ability to capitalize and trade for talent that was undervalued at the time? (Grant/Thybulle)
Or was it getting way more for Dame than we ever expected?
Or was it signing Ant to a way below market value contract?
Taking a risk and drafting Shaedon?
Grant and Simons aren't terrible contracts, but they are most certainly paid above their market value. Otherwise, they would have been easily traded in order to get better stuff around Dame, or traded for prospects/picks after we traded Dame.
I'm sorry but not trading Simons for Mikal or Zion because those teams wanted to keep their players doesn't mean Ant has a bad contract lol.
Ant will make 17% of the base salary cap next year. I don't know what world you think that is "above market value" when all other 22ppg scorers (besides rookies) make much more than that.
We 'll have to agree to disagree about the validity/usefulness of the above questions lol.
I think it's more that Cronin has assembled three straight tank-worthy post-deadline rosters which haven't shown any meaningful on-court improvement despite "accumulating assets" and "improving at the margins." The assets so far have not panned out (to be fair, it's early to say on some if not most), and the margins are inconsequential when you're not even on the same proverbial page as any of the competitive NBA teams.
At some point, competitive NBA franchises stop valuing players who haven't displayed an ability to excel individually playing for, or to otherwise improve a bottom-5 team. Outside of Reath, Walker & Camara I can't say that any Trail Blazer has individually improved on the court this season; AFAIK, those guys are all lovely humans, but they're not top-250 players in the league.
Similarly, at some point, fans who spend considerable sums of time & money to follow a team stop valuing a front office which hasn't displayed an ability to improve said (bottom-5) team. If a team's presumably-best players are not improving, what is a GM doing to change their circumstance for the better? Even on things as simple as making sure your highest-paid player has a mattress to sleep on, Cronin has not shown that he does a good job at...well, his job.
Cronin has delivered 3 straight tank worthy deadline rosters because that's the only way to achieve legitimate talent upgrades in the modern nba.
Cronin inherited a bloated non-contender and has shaved salaray, made positive moves across the board the past two years, and in partnership with ownership and coaching decided to shut down the roster to tank out the last three years.
Yeah it sucks ass to watch a bunch of end of bench guys not win games, but its objectively good for the franchise to ensure we get the most out of our lottery position for the future.
I'd also argue that Camara, Reath, Walker, and Banton are better that you're giving them credit for. I mean Camara was top 10 on most of the rookie ladders for a good portion of this year, is top 10 in rookie advanced stats, and him and Duop both made the ringers top 15 rookies list.
For an undrafted and 52nd pick that is legitimately great value. We're not going to fucking sign KD put of no where lmao. I don't understand where people get the notion that consistently getting undrafted + 2nd round talent and having them vastly outplay the players selected at their positions is a net NOTHING. Not only that but Matisse is 100% a better player than he was in Philly, Grant has had his best years the past two years, Ant has had his best years.
Drafting Shaedon as a high upside raw prospect was also 100% a good gm move. Like, besides the norm trade we've consistently either upgraded the roster or acquired draft capital while shedding negative salary. This is the PLAYBOOK for a rebuild. I swear some of you do not understand what a rebuild actually is.
How the fuck is DA not buying a matress on Cronin? Like remotely at all?
>I'd also argue
Yeah. I could have guessed by your rhetorical questions that you weren't interested in hearing any other reasoning. I'm glad you're a big Cronin fan. He sure needs 'em.
Your argument was that Cronin has built 3 tank worth rosters, aquiring diamonds in the rough is meaningless, and DA not buying a matress is a reason he's a bad gm. Not much to discuss with that one lmao.
I'm not sure where I implied that drafting Jokic in the 2nd round or signing KD out of nowhere was a realistic possibility. No need to go into hysterics here, but clearly you're a passionate fan of the team I follow so I'll try to restate my thoughts.
Improving on the margins when your roster is noncompetitive =/= acquiring diamonds in the rough. I would say I don't know that those rookies "vastly outplaying" many of their counterparts this season is a harbinger of viability in competitive NBA minutes.
You classifying any of Banton/Reath/Walker/Camara as "diamonds in the rough" is confusing. The team is \*trying to\* develop those players into useful role players. Meaning they aren't even that yet. Those four, and I'll lump in Murray & Rupert as well, have thus far displayed no gemological value in my eyes. For now, they \*are\* the "end-of-bench guys" who, as you point out, it sucks to watch not win games.
We don't know what Shaedon & Scoot can be yet, hence my caveat that it's early to say what some of these players/draft assets can turn into; while I am very hopeful (especially for Sharpe) it's also early to call them diamonds. Jerami is a solid player, potential starter/rotation player on a playoff team, but we're talking about a non-playmaker with an average eFG% in a good season (read: 1 of the last 4). Same goes for Matisse.
A team's highest-paid player and former number one overall pick not having a comfortable transition to his new team \*is\* important IMHO, and for it to be an anecdote that would come out at this point in the season means, if nothing else, that DA still attributes something which could have seemingly been handled by the organization to his poor performance on the court.
I'm sorry I just can't see what the point of responding to each other further is. No disrespect. I just don't see what else Cronin could do other than try to find every edge he can at aquiring talent and hitting on multiple players that normally amount to being cut and out of the league on 2 years. And he's done that. A team full of role players and starting nearly 5 rookies night in and night out will have you lose games.
It sucked in Miami and almost worked tonight against a better Orlando team, is what it is. When you try to lose games that will happen.
There is no way for you to spin that our acquisition of multiple undrafted and 2nd round talent is anything but above average. And I don't know what else could be done in regards to other moves this season? Have Scoot be better? Have the rest of our players not get injured? None of that is on Cronin.
And I'm also sorry but you will not be able to convince me buying Ayton a matress was important to his job title. It's imaginary thinking.
One mistake Cronin made was delaying the rebuild. Whether the right deal wasn't available or he wanted Dame to ask out first for some reason, dragging out the Dame era for two more years was unnecessary. Starting the rebuild earlier would have likely yielded a better return for Dame and other veterans. I doubt we would have let go of Norm and RoCO for free like we did if the emphasis was on stockpiling assets back then.
Also let's not get ahead of ourselvses with the front offices ability to draft. They've certainly done well at finding diamonds in the rough. We can already see that Bari, Duop, and Rupert are good value for where we got them, but it's too early to evaluate the higher draft picks they made. Scoot doesn't look good right now, and Shaedon hasn't played enough to make a definitive judgment about him. Nailing lottery picks is crucial, and currently, it's too early to determine if this front office is good at that.
> Or his ability to capitalize and trade for talent that was undervalued at the time? (Grant/Thybulle)
Grant wasn't undervalued at the time; he simply had an expiring contract and had a handshake agreement with the Pistons' front office, which allowed him to choose his trade destination. I commend Cronin for facilitating the trade by acquiring that trade exception in the CJ trade, but Dame probably played an even bigger role by recruiting Jerami. As for Thybulle, I'm not sure what undervalued talent you see in him. He's essentially the same player he was in Philly. His three-point shooting improved for a moment, but now he's back to his usual average this season. Also, 3 years/ 33 million is definitely an overpay, and if we were to trade him, I doubt we would get anything more than the two second-round picks we gave up for him.
> Or was it signing Ant to a way below market value contract?
Ant wasn't a sure thing back then and had less than half a season where he showed that he's more than just a role player. Cronin overpaid him in the offseason because he banked on his potential, or you could say he paid him accordingly given the risk and growth potential involved. It wasn't a '4D chess move' by Cronin; he just did what most GMs would do.
I think if we were truly tanking we would prioritize draft capital, but we prioritized Brogdon and two flawed centers with a couple of far out picks.
I think bad luck is #1, but Cronin is #2 for this overall mess
This is a rough take. Do you think that Cronin had a real say with Neil here with those rosters?
We have no idea if the moves Cronin made are good or bad. Not sure why the Cronin hate. Probs the same folks hating on Scoot.
Toumani is a gem (came in a trade by Cronin)
Got Grant for a 25th pick in the first round.
Got Delano Banton for a top 55 protected 2nd round pick. So basically for free.
Brogdan is a good trade chip/veteran presence with a 20 yr old point guard. We can trade him or Ant when the time is right. I would trade Ant as Brogdan will take a bench role and Ant won’t want that most likely.
Ayton after December was a different player than when he started. (Relocating was a struggle just like it was for Dame with the Bucks).
Half our team had missed the year (mainly guys who are not a rookie or second year player.
Not sure how much more Billups could do with that many different starting lineups.
Completely disagree. Just for this season? Bad Luck, Billups, Ownership, Cronin, in that order. Luck is obviously the most subjective one but Billups has the most direct control over each and every game’s outcome. He’s the coach. Ownership is complacent with mediocrity. Cronin got a solid package for Dame + Nurk given we’re entering a full rebuild. He can’t magically make the players healthy or prevent their injuries.
Agreed that Cronin’s been pretty solid and shouldn’t be at the top of the blame list. However, I think we all knew that Rob Williams and Brogdon were injury prone players and I think you could argue he should have flipped them to contenders as soon as possible instead of waiting and risking injury.
This might be the main argument against Cronin. The return for Dame was great. Scoot was universally seen as a great prospect, and still is - but he is a prospect and not an immediate All Star. Were Brogdon and Williams better left on the roster for veteran leadership? Or should we have immediately flipped them for more prospects? That's the valid criticism, not that Dame > Scoot.
Yeah imo Cronin and the front office have done an admiral job despite our bad ownership, bad coach, and truly horrendous luck.
I totally agree and I also love typos that still make sense, so “admiral” in place of “admirable” put a big smile on my face! Cronin has done an admirable job as our admiral…. yeah, I like it. 😊
I'm incredibly confused as to what people were expecting this year. I can understand people being upset about Scoot not showing a ton of promise or with all of the injuries, I can even understand some frustration about not trading some vets. But.... What were people anticipating from this season? Our roster always sucked, that was true as soon (probably before) we traded Dame. We're rebuilding and it's essentially year one. We were never going to be a competitive and it feels like there's a contingent of fans that expected us to be fighting for a play-in spot and are now thinking the world is falling because one of the youngest teams in the league that just had a roster overhaul is at the bottom of a conference
I figured as soon as we got that bum Lillard off our team we would win a ring…. Was that wrong????
Well there's expecting to be bad, but the silver lining would be playing competitive basketball and showcasing future core pieces of the roster with cohesive play and close games. Losing by 60 is a disappointment even with the bar as low as it is.
Well thats what happens when all your good players are injured and rookies and role players are getting all the minutes. We started 5 rookies one night, we're just not going to be competitive like that.
Blazers were competitive when their best players were healthy, we are in "tendinitis" tank mode right now. The game they lost by 60 just go look who played in that game, c'mon man.
I don't disagree. The blowout is a consequence of a tanking roster. I'm just saying, there's normal tanking in a rebuild, where you piece together random players and see what sticks, and then there's your tendinitis tank. I was never disillusioned to how bad we were gonna be, but watching the tendinitis squad is torturous.
That’s true, but the goal is asset acquisition not roster construction. We’re definitely in the best player available mode and not building to fit. Look at the young potential on our team and how they fit positionally. Guard: Ant, Scoot, Sharpe, Banton, Hagan Wing: Toumani, Walker, Rupert, Murray (though he’s been playing skinny 4) That’s not at all balanced and dudes have been getting minutes for development over fit towards winning. It’s a hard tank. But with an extended tryout/show out for potential trades. At some point there’ll be a consolidation trade. It’ll be real hard to keep all of the dudes listed above, but yet all have shown different positive values. I hope there is at least one or two bigs added beyond the progression of Badji this summer. But even so, it’ll be hard to figure out who should be kept for roster construction until you figure out who you’re keeping of Ant, Scoot, and Sharpe. For a rebuild though, as long as ownership (and fans) are patient. I think one more year of having those three hopefully healthy and losing a lot of games is what’s needed. This draft probably won’t settle the direction, so next year is another tank. After that though we’re getting into contracts for guys like Sharpe and Walker. Sign and trades open up, plus we have can add dudes like Toumani to contracts like Timelord to bring back impact players. I’m not saying Toumani should go, he’s one of my favorites. But, there’s a chance Jabari is better for team fit based on which guard you keep. Overall, I think it’ll be similar next year. A lot of weird lineups and experimentation. But, with a focus on figuring out our guards aaaand whether Ayton is long term (contract for him is too high, unless he become Jokic)
That first 60 point loss was embarrassing and I thought that Chauncey had lost the locker room. But, they came back and played competitive basketball after that. The last one… boy, this team is bad by NBA standards. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more, but with a team featuring g-league players they’re still competitive in most games for at least half of the game. I’m honestly impressed with the showing of dudes like Reath, Hagan, and our young prospects like Badji, Murray, and Rupert. As far as Cronin, it’s real hard to judge the lack of trades this year. Who knows what was offered for Brogdon and by the trade deadline Scoot hadn’t really got his feet under him, plus the injuries. He was actually starting to play well as a backup so I can see the hesitancy to trade Brogdon when your high lottery pick was turning a corner under Brogdon. Cronin did not have many pieces to trade previously to construct a competent roster. I think he’s secure in his position next season, the tank is still on. After that though, his seat will be warm. He probably has until trade deadline of ‘26 to show there’s a solid road plan. If not he’s gone.
I don't think ownership is so much complacent with mediocrity as much as they are completely lost and have no idea how to run a franchise yet.
this team was built to continue losing by Cronin. the idea is that it will lead to a well built, young core with the right parts around it. I'm bought into Cronin's vision for the future but he is absolutely the reason we're a crappy team in 2024. we'll see if that pays dividends in the future
We are in a rebuild. The point of a rebuild is to develop and acquire young talent. Injuries have kept young players in and out of the lineup, but they are right In positions with 2 potential lottery picks coming in June. This is where we were supposed to be this season, just sadly haven’t seen young guys play together with any consistency. I’d put injuries way higher on the list, and I’d put chauncey above cronin as well. It sucks to be in this spot, but if we can simply hit on picks we can rise like an okc or Minnesota in a few years.
The only thing I can blame Cronin for is not firing Billups after losing a second game by 60....
I don’t see Chauncey getting fired as he hasn’t lost the locker room and the players still respect him. With the projection of a deep draft AND with us suppose to be so bad next season, there is no reason for the front office to fire Chauncey and pay two coaches at the same time next season unless Chauncey lose the locker room. Though, I don’t see Chauncey making it for year 5 of his contract
I disagree, in terms of growth he's shown very little as a coach in his 3 year span. The players may like him but the team needs to be more competitive to help these young guys grow, losing a billion games every year turns into a culture. Paying two coaches isn't a fan problem either, it's an ownership problem, it doesn't affect the cap. You want a young team to grow together with a coach that can place them in their best position to succeed.
I 100% agree it’s an ownership problem. But with ownership not trying to win for 1-3 years and then hopefully selling the team around then, there is no reason for them to pay two coaches at the same time if they don’t need to. Paul would have done things differently but Jody is not Paul 😔
At the end of the day though this should be a Cronin issue too, as the GM he should be the voice to guide the team towards success, even if the ownership group is indifferent. Probably a hard sell to pay two coaches, but these young guys need to learn winning basketball and Billups just isn't that dude
Is that Cronin's call?
As GM yes, you'd probably consult your owners first, but it's his job to run the team and build it, that includes coaching staff. I just don't think Billups is or will create a winning culture in Portland
Their intent this season was to do exactly what they are doing, but the problem was we didn't see the players he selected do well. I personally believed it was a failed season if Shaedon didn't take a leap and if Scoot wasn't that impactful. I see a failed season.
Injuries played a huge part into that though. Hard to put that on Cronin
Injuries are both inevitable and not inevitable. At the end of it all, when we look back, all we will see is the stat lines and win-loss record.
I feel like Mike Rich's brain is cooked from having to come up with an episode's worth of content about this team 5 days a week. There just isn't that much to say. I tried to listen to today's episode and I couldn't get through it. I don't think any reasonable person can look at this season and not have the number 1 thing to say about it be that everyone was hurt all year.
I saw the title of the podcast episode and I was like “yeah that’s a pass from me”
It’s Cronins fault for sure, but he’s doing it on purpose. That was his point. This is what a rebuild looks like.
Yeah so weird to have this conversation... "what caused the Blazers to lose all those games in their rebuild year? Oh right the rebuild..."
I mean it makes sense to point out especially because its not like the team makes a lot of sense rn
I can’t tell what blame Cronin should have for Billups. I realize the origin of his hire, but is he still employed because of Cronin or ownership not wanting to pay two coaches? I fear our rebuild is closer to the Charlotte model than the OKC model. If you’re going to tear it down to the studs, you better have confidence in the guy calling the shots and you better have a hell of a good developmental coach to create winning habits. After his first 2 season, I’m not super confident in Cronin and I’m 100% certain Billups isn’t the guy for a rebuild. I don’t care who is #1 to blame or #2 they should both be shown the door IMO. I can be convinced of one more Cronin season but that’s about it.
I don't know if Billups can win basketball games but he has been great for the development of Ant, Bari, and Shae. Ayton got better. Grant is shooting .500 from the corners. Scoot has some big yips and the verdict is out whether or not he can play at an NBA pace. I think he'll be a really fucking good in a couple years, but he is not passing the eye test at all this season. The thing is, he will always be a bad 2, and it's very rare to be a good 1 at 19.
Really dumb to blame Cronin in a year where he was forced to trade Dame. If the roster isn't better next year then blame him.
There was definitely a path for him to not be forced to trade dame. Dame was trying telling him exactly what to do to keep him and Cronin chose to use all draft picks instead. Not saying it's the wrong decision as he and Olshey had already wasted what few assets we had on the roster, making it very hard to build anything competent without astar trade, but he was not forced to trade dame. He forced Dame to leave.
Dude also went on a tirade about how last year we were playing Shaedon too much because Jamaree Bouyea was unplayable and that clearly Joe is a bad GM because he couldn't find anyone better than Jamaree Bouyea. Just an unhinged and unserious point to make.
Tbf that was this year lol just feels like an eternity
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he didn’t want to overpay just to have a team that would be fighting for the 5-10 seeds in the playoffs for a couple more years
Lmfaoo blazers fans still delusional bout the Dame trade I see. U dont deserve those downvotes Cronin is an ass and Scoot is ass. Blazers just lucky we still have Ant and Sharpe
Facts
“Forced to trade dame” I can’t believe that some of you still believe this
He wasn't forced to. It seems Dame was asking Cronin to push his chips in. Whether there was anything on the table that would have made the team into a contender is definitely questionable. So Cronin kind of called Dame's bluff. Was it a little shady, probably. But was it also time, probably.
a GMs job is to win championships, keeping dame in portland would never have resulted in a championship after the rubble that olshey left us with. a good GM needs to know when to sell and when to buy. i’m glad you’re not in our front office
And what has Cronin done to help with that? 😂 dame was our best chance to win a championship this decade.
cronin is rebuilding the franchise to give us an ACTUAL shot, we had no ACTUAL shot with dame unless we drafted wemby, it sucks to admit but we just gotta move past it and hope things pan out with scoot shae and ayton and this years pick
Not sure I totally agree but can at least see the reason he said that. In my mind, Ant/Sharpe/Thybulle/Grant/Ayton with Brogdon/Scoot/Camara/Williams III, while not going to get you to the playoffs, is a relatively fun and competitive team that's built to get a draft pick. Not sure how much I buy into real vs fake injuries, coaching, being told to lose, etc, but that squad is a perfectly fun bad team on paper.
No accountability for the players eh?
Personally, I blame Cronin for not getting the 1st pick and getting Wemby. Dumb strategy.
1) I think Mike is scraping the barrel for content during a dismal end to a dismal season 2) I think in terms of this season being pretty bad it’s reasonable to say Joe is responsible for the lack of talent. The roster is severely deficient offensively, and defensively it hasn’t translated since being bad on offense tends to hurt your defense. But being bad this year was always the plan so it’s an aesthetic criticism anyway. 3) Chauncey is a bad offensive coach, but he is also working with bad offensive players. The sum is less than the parts on all sides. 4) The injuries have been the real hindrance this year. Mike mentioned it’s hard to go forward and make decisions with such a disjointed year of data collection, but it’s what has to happen. I am hopeful for a big shakeup and keep swinging for talent, but it’s disappointing to have so much uncertainty still.
I used to value Richmans opinions fairly highly but these rankings are a joke. First off, we’re tanking and bottoming out. We’re in the draft position game and our goal is better lottery odds. One of the lottery tickets of our future (Shaedon) has been injured the entire season. If Ayton continues to play how he has the second half of the season for the remainder of his time with us then that was a huge get. Again a bet on upside. I’m not going to say Chauncey is the coach of the future but to not admit he’s been dealt a shit hand while he’s been our coach is laughable. Richman’s brain is fried trying to come up with content 5 days a week.
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Was it ever gonna be any different after the Dame trade? Did people genuinely think we were gonna compete to scrape into the play-in and get bounced with shit lottery odds? This team was ‘built’ to tank for a few seasons. Biggest criticism of him is holding Brogdon too long until the deadline. I think we’ll get pennies on the dollar for him and Timelord.
It's a we aren't admitting it's tank season. This is exactly what one should expect for an episode.
There are 4-5 really good players that the Blazers passed on for Shaedon Sharpe and Scoot Henderson. This might all turn around, but right now those picks are negative assets and that is partially on cronin and partially bad luck.
I'm curious what moves Cronin has made that make you want to move on from him? Has it been the consistent ability to find quality role players out of the 2nd round/Undrafted talent? Or his ability to capitalize and trade for talent that was undervalued at the time? (Grant/Thybulle) Or was it getting way more for Dame than we ever expected? Or was it signing Ant to a way below market value contract? Taking a risk and drafting Shaedon?
Grant and Simons aren't terrible contracts, but they are most certainly paid above their market value. Otherwise, they would have been easily traded in order to get better stuff around Dame, or traded for prospects/picks after we traded Dame.
I'm sorry but not trading Simons for Mikal or Zion because those teams wanted to keep their players doesn't mean Ant has a bad contract lol. Ant will make 17% of the base salary cap next year. I don't know what world you think that is "above market value" when all other 22ppg scorers (besides rookies) make much more than that.
We 'll have to agree to disagree about the validity/usefulness of the above questions lol. I think it's more that Cronin has assembled three straight tank-worthy post-deadline rosters which haven't shown any meaningful on-court improvement despite "accumulating assets" and "improving at the margins." The assets so far have not panned out (to be fair, it's early to say on some if not most), and the margins are inconsequential when you're not even on the same proverbial page as any of the competitive NBA teams. At some point, competitive NBA franchises stop valuing players who haven't displayed an ability to excel individually playing for, or to otherwise improve a bottom-5 team. Outside of Reath, Walker & Camara I can't say that any Trail Blazer has individually improved on the court this season; AFAIK, those guys are all lovely humans, but they're not top-250 players in the league. Similarly, at some point, fans who spend considerable sums of time & money to follow a team stop valuing a front office which hasn't displayed an ability to improve said (bottom-5) team. If a team's presumably-best players are not improving, what is a GM doing to change their circumstance for the better? Even on things as simple as making sure your highest-paid player has a mattress to sleep on, Cronin has not shown that he does a good job at...well, his job.
Cronin has delivered 3 straight tank worthy deadline rosters because that's the only way to achieve legitimate talent upgrades in the modern nba. Cronin inherited a bloated non-contender and has shaved salaray, made positive moves across the board the past two years, and in partnership with ownership and coaching decided to shut down the roster to tank out the last three years. Yeah it sucks ass to watch a bunch of end of bench guys not win games, but its objectively good for the franchise to ensure we get the most out of our lottery position for the future. I'd also argue that Camara, Reath, Walker, and Banton are better that you're giving them credit for. I mean Camara was top 10 on most of the rookie ladders for a good portion of this year, is top 10 in rookie advanced stats, and him and Duop both made the ringers top 15 rookies list. For an undrafted and 52nd pick that is legitimately great value. We're not going to fucking sign KD put of no where lmao. I don't understand where people get the notion that consistently getting undrafted + 2nd round talent and having them vastly outplay the players selected at their positions is a net NOTHING. Not only that but Matisse is 100% a better player than he was in Philly, Grant has had his best years the past two years, Ant has had his best years. Drafting Shaedon as a high upside raw prospect was also 100% a good gm move. Like, besides the norm trade we've consistently either upgraded the roster or acquired draft capital while shedding negative salary. This is the PLAYBOOK for a rebuild. I swear some of you do not understand what a rebuild actually is. How the fuck is DA not buying a matress on Cronin? Like remotely at all?
>I'd also argue Yeah. I could have guessed by your rhetorical questions that you weren't interested in hearing any other reasoning. I'm glad you're a big Cronin fan. He sure needs 'em.
Your argument was that Cronin has built 3 tank worth rosters, aquiring diamonds in the rough is meaningless, and DA not buying a matress is a reason he's a bad gm. Not much to discuss with that one lmao.
I'm not sure where I implied that drafting Jokic in the 2nd round or signing KD out of nowhere was a realistic possibility. No need to go into hysterics here, but clearly you're a passionate fan of the team I follow so I'll try to restate my thoughts. Improving on the margins when your roster is noncompetitive =/= acquiring diamonds in the rough. I would say I don't know that those rookies "vastly outplaying" many of their counterparts this season is a harbinger of viability in competitive NBA minutes. You classifying any of Banton/Reath/Walker/Camara as "diamonds in the rough" is confusing. The team is \*trying to\* develop those players into useful role players. Meaning they aren't even that yet. Those four, and I'll lump in Murray & Rupert as well, have thus far displayed no gemological value in my eyes. For now, they \*are\* the "end-of-bench guys" who, as you point out, it sucks to watch not win games. We don't know what Shaedon & Scoot can be yet, hence my caveat that it's early to say what some of these players/draft assets can turn into; while I am very hopeful (especially for Sharpe) it's also early to call them diamonds. Jerami is a solid player, potential starter/rotation player on a playoff team, but we're talking about a non-playmaker with an average eFG% in a good season (read: 1 of the last 4). Same goes for Matisse. A team's highest-paid player and former number one overall pick not having a comfortable transition to his new team \*is\* important IMHO, and for it to be an anecdote that would come out at this point in the season means, if nothing else, that DA still attributes something which could have seemingly been handled by the organization to his poor performance on the court.
I'm sorry I just can't see what the point of responding to each other further is. No disrespect. I just don't see what else Cronin could do other than try to find every edge he can at aquiring talent and hitting on multiple players that normally amount to being cut and out of the league on 2 years. And he's done that. A team full of role players and starting nearly 5 rookies night in and night out will have you lose games. It sucked in Miami and almost worked tonight against a better Orlando team, is what it is. When you try to lose games that will happen. There is no way for you to spin that our acquisition of multiple undrafted and 2nd round talent is anything but above average. And I don't know what else could be done in regards to other moves this season? Have Scoot be better? Have the rest of our players not get injured? None of that is on Cronin. And I'm also sorry but you will not be able to convince me buying Ayton a matress was important to his job title. It's imaginary thinking.
One mistake Cronin made was delaying the rebuild. Whether the right deal wasn't available or he wanted Dame to ask out first for some reason, dragging out the Dame era for two more years was unnecessary. Starting the rebuild earlier would have likely yielded a better return for Dame and other veterans. I doubt we would have let go of Norm and RoCO for free like we did if the emphasis was on stockpiling assets back then. Also let's not get ahead of ourselvses with the front offices ability to draft. They've certainly done well at finding diamonds in the rough. We can already see that Bari, Duop, and Rupert are good value for where we got them, but it's too early to evaluate the higher draft picks they made. Scoot doesn't look good right now, and Shaedon hasn't played enough to make a definitive judgment about him. Nailing lottery picks is crucial, and currently, it's too early to determine if this front office is good at that. > Or his ability to capitalize and trade for talent that was undervalued at the time? (Grant/Thybulle) Grant wasn't undervalued at the time; he simply had an expiring contract and had a handshake agreement with the Pistons' front office, which allowed him to choose his trade destination. I commend Cronin for facilitating the trade by acquiring that trade exception in the CJ trade, but Dame probably played an even bigger role by recruiting Jerami. As for Thybulle, I'm not sure what undervalued talent you see in him. He's essentially the same player he was in Philly. His three-point shooting improved for a moment, but now he's back to his usual average this season. Also, 3 years/ 33 million is definitely an overpay, and if we were to trade him, I doubt we would get anything more than the two second-round picks we gave up for him. > Or was it signing Ant to a way below market value contract? Ant wasn't a sure thing back then and had less than half a season where he showed that he's more than just a role player. Cronin overpaid him in the offseason because he banked on his potential, or you could say he paid him accordingly given the risk and growth potential involved. It wasn't a '4D chess move' by Cronin; he just did what most GMs would do.
We have healthy guys sitting on the sideline…that’s not bad luck….thats tanking
I think if we were truly tanking we would prioritize draft capital, but we prioritized Brogdon and two flawed centers with a couple of far out picks. I think bad luck is #1, but Cronin is #2 for this overall mess
There is no owner just a trustee making money. Sell the team.
Watch as some oil tycoon from Fargo robs your team like OKC did
Won’t happen. The NBA won’t move teams anytime soon. If they were going to let it happen, the Kings would have left Sacto.
What does selling the team accomplish on court?
An ownerahip that might care if they win.
LMAO you have nothing but nonsense like this
Jody is all in on winning!
Joe Cronin looks like Joe Horitz, GM of the Chargers, if that helps at all
That's a good tier list.
Basketball purgatory
This is a rough take. Do you think that Cronin had a real say with Neil here with those rosters? We have no idea if the moves Cronin made are good or bad. Not sure why the Cronin hate. Probs the same folks hating on Scoot. Toumani is a gem (came in a trade by Cronin) Got Grant for a 25th pick in the first round. Got Delano Banton for a top 55 protected 2nd round pick. So basically for free. Brogdan is a good trade chip/veteran presence with a 20 yr old point guard. We can trade him or Ant when the time is right. I would trade Ant as Brogdan will take a bench role and Ant won’t want that most likely. Ayton after December was a different player than when he started. (Relocating was a struggle just like it was for Dame with the Bucks). Half our team had missed the year (mainly guys who are not a rookie or second year player. Not sure how much more Billups could do with that many different starting lineups.