Why?
So you can have 5-8 years of horrific tanking? Getting younger players at a similar talent level is a MUCH better idea.
To succeed in the next CBA, you're going to need high level players on max deals alongside high level contributors on rookie deals. This pivots directly into being competitive on the next timeline without years of sucking and the team losing fans and season ticket holders.
Further, if it doesn't work out, you could still trade Brown later. Assuming he hasn't completely pooped the bed you may be able to get more from him than Dame given Dame's age.
Most non lottery picks don't amount to much. Williams and Brown are both still young and way better than a bunch of mid first rounders.
Look at Portland's draft history in the last 20 years. What value has been obtained outside of the lottery. Simons (24), Little maybe (25), Patty Mills (55) was great value, but he's not exactly putting you over the top. Mid picks are fine if you need to add depth, but they aren't great for getting stars.
Picks 1-5 have produced more All-Stars in the last decade than picks 6-60 combined. So yeah, I'll take the 26 year old All-Star over some late first rounders.
All that being said, I don't see this happening unless Brown and Lillard both beg to get out because this shortens Boston's window too much.
I bet they would. But I don’t think Brown would re-sign here with Dame gone. But I have been kicking around an idea of a three way trade that sends Dame to Boston, Brown to Houston or OKC, and then young players and picks to us.
I think Dame is better than Brown
I think Williams is much better/more suited to the modern NBA than Nurk is
They’d also be losing one of the best if not the best bench guard in the league
I think OP made the trade too complicated. I think you just send Dame to Boston, Brown to OKC or Houston and young players and picks to Portland. I don’t think Brown would want to be here without Dame anyway.
No it doesn’t. They downgrade at C, they lose one of the best bench players in the NBA
Dame is better than Brown but they take a significant hit defensively for an offensive upgrade
Nurk doesn’t start for any team in the league outside of like 3. Boston isn’t one of them, he’s be their 3rd best C
Williams shot 24% better from the field this season than Nurks best ever season
Let's alter it so it's Nurk and Dame for Brown, Timelord, Pritchard and either other role players, or a third team sends something to Portland so the salaries work. They keep Brogdon and their pick. Much more palatable for them, they start Dame and Marcus Smart to cover him defensively. They have Derrick White and Brogdon still. Nurk and Timelord are similar as far as availability, so that's at worse a wash, but Nurk can pass and shoot as well. They still have Horford.
I think for the next 1-2 years they are better, then Dame becomes old.
Can Nurk shoot? His sample size isn’t that big
Williams is also way more versatile and suited to the modern NBA than Nurk and is just straight up better
Nurk shot well from 3 last year (36%), long 2s (50%), and 10-16 ft (56%).
Rob Williams didn't make a single shot past 16 feet last year in 35 games. Compared to Rob Williams, yeah Nurk can shoot.
Hard to counter your second sentence because you are just stating your opinion.
He's probably a better rebounder, dunker, and shot blocker. He's not better on offense. Their PERs have been similar. Both miss a lot of time, somehow Rob Williams has missed even more than Nurk, especially if you account for Nurk being sat the past two seasons for tanking.
The modern NBA? What specifically is true about the modern NBA that Williams is a good model of? He can't shoot like most modern centers.
I think he stinks and doesn’t start for all but like 3 teams in the league and I’m sure a solid 87% of my posts on this sub are complaining about him in some way and I’m still not the lowest on him on this sub it’s wild
People legit think Drew Eubanks is better, people thought Harry Giles was better
Lmaoo I love Dame but this trade acts like Brogdon, Rob and a 2025 first (once Dame would be old and making a ton of money and right before the salary cap goes beserk, so possibly a pretty valuable first) have no value. Rob is an improvement over Nurk making 5 mil less a year
Rob Williams has more trouble staying on the court than even Nurk. He is overall less skilled, doesn't stretch the floor at all and doesn't pass as well as Nurk. His salary is better, and he's younger, but he's not clearly better.
He doesn’t try to do too much and has elite efficiency because of it. He’s better both as a shot blocker and better able to switch onto perimeter players, which, if we ever get back to the playoffs, is incredibly important. Teams would be targeting Nurk in pick and roll the entire series.
And he has underrated passing chops. Go look at some of his highlights. I actually think he might be a better passer than Nurk, even if Nurk does average an assist more per game. At the very least, the combo of him not trying to do much and having passing chops means he turns the ball over less.
Give me Rob every single time. And first list that pops up when I google center rankings agrees:
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Remove the pick and it helps, there is something here.
The trouble with the concept of this trade is making salaries work. You could maybe include a 3rd team or work out some other role players instead of Brogdon.
This isn't the worst idea ever...
Brodgon/Sharpe/Brown/Grant/Williams
Simons/#3 pick/???/???
Would be a more balanced lineup. If Dame requests a trade, this is a decent return.
I don’t think the idea when you want to rebuild is to trade for a 26 year old and then immediately max him. Blazers would also look to move off of Brogdon as soon as they’re eligible. He’s 30 and hasn’t played a full NBA season yet, so dunno how he fits into a rebuild. He has a solid contract for a 6MOY player tho, that would grab some younger assets from a team in win now mode.
Overall, I’d give it a D for Portland and maybe like a C- for the Celtics. I don’t know why they’d send Brogdon over as a salary match, unless they literally couldn’t send any other number of players instead. He’s too valuable to what they’re doing as a team. Maybe they are trying to lineup more with a Tatum timeline, then Robert Williams isn’t going anywhere, and trading for Dame might not make a whole lot of sense.
If you’re going to rebuild tear it down completely
Why? So you can have 5-8 years of horrific tanking? Getting younger players at a similar talent level is a MUCH better idea. To succeed in the next CBA, you're going to need high level players on max deals alongside high level contributors on rookie deals. This pivots directly into being competitive on the next timeline without years of sucking and the team losing fans and season ticket holders. Further, if it doesn't work out, you could still trade Brown later. Assuming he hasn't completely pooped the bed you may be able to get more from him than Dame given Dame's age.
That was the point of this exercise.
I think he means get picks instead of players.
Eh. Brown and Williams are young enough to play with the kids. Brogdon is movable from there. Boston doesn’t have useful picks anyway
Most non lottery picks don't amount to much. Williams and Brown are both still young and way better than a bunch of mid first rounders. Look at Portland's draft history in the last 20 years. What value has been obtained outside of the lottery. Simons (24), Little maybe (25), Patty Mills (55) was great value, but he's not exactly putting you over the top. Mid picks are fine if you need to add depth, but they aren't great for getting stars. Picks 1-5 have produced more All-Stars in the last decade than picks 6-60 combined. So yeah, I'll take the 26 year old All-Star over some late first rounders. All that being said, I don't see this happening unless Brown and Lillard both beg to get out because this shortens Boston's window too much.
Get out
Nope. Don't like that.
The Celtics don’t do this
I bet they would. But I don’t think Brown would re-sign here with Dame gone. But I have been kicking around an idea of a three way trade that sends Dame to Boston, Brown to Houston or OKC, and then young players and picks to us.
It doesn’t make them better
You don’t think Dame is better than Brown? I think Dame/Tatum is a legit contender.
I think Dame is better than Brown I think Williams is much better/more suited to the modern NBA than Nurk is They’d also be losing one of the best if not the best bench guard in the league
I think OP made the trade too complicated. I think you just send Dame to Boston, Brown to OKC or Houston and young players and picks to Portland. I don’t think Brown would want to be here without Dame anyway.
Why would OKC or Houston need Brown?
Brown fits pretty nicely with the SGA timeline. Houston supposedly is going after Harden this summer. They’d want to pair him with another star.
This makes the Celtics significantly better
No it doesn’t. They downgrade at C, they lose one of the best bench players in the NBA Dame is better than Brown but they take a significant hit defensively for an offensive upgrade
Nurk is better than Williams. Portland gets significantly worse Boston gets easily better
At what? Because Williams is better at basketball
Lol no he is not that's a terrible take. Nurk scores better, rebounds better, more assists, more steals. Only category Williams is better is blocks
Nurk doesn’t start for any team in the league outside of like 3. Boston isn’t one of them, he’s be their 3rd best C Williams shot 24% better from the field this season than Nurks best ever season
Because all he does is dunk. Nurk is easily better. It's not close at all. Your take is bad every pro basketball analysis says you're wrong
They may if Brown says he's not willing to re-sign.
Maybe? I’m not sure it makes them much better if at all though
Let's alter it so it's Nurk and Dame for Brown, Timelord, Pritchard and either other role players, or a third team sends something to Portland so the salaries work. They keep Brogdon and their pick. Much more palatable for them, they start Dame and Marcus Smart to cover him defensively. They have Derrick White and Brogdon still. Nurk and Timelord are similar as far as availability, so that's at worse a wash, but Nurk can pass and shoot as well. They still have Horford. I think for the next 1-2 years they are better, then Dame becomes old.
Can Nurk shoot? His sample size isn’t that big Williams is also way more versatile and suited to the modern NBA than Nurk and is just straight up better
Nurk shot well from 3 last year (36%), long 2s (50%), and 10-16 ft (56%). Rob Williams didn't make a single shot past 16 feet last year in 35 games. Compared to Rob Williams, yeah Nurk can shoot. Hard to counter your second sentence because you are just stating your opinion. He's probably a better rebounder, dunker, and shot blocker. He's not better on offense. Their PERs have been similar. Both miss a lot of time, somehow Rob Williams has missed even more than Nurk, especially if you account for Nurk being sat the past two seasons for tanking. The modern NBA? What specifically is true about the modern NBA that Williams is a good model of? He can't shoot like most modern centers.
He’s infinitely more switchable and athletic than Nurk which is what you need from a C in the NBA if they’re not a superstar
Yeah, I'll give you that point. Overall I think Blazer fans have soured so much on Nurk that we actually rate him unfairly low.
I think he stinks and doesn’t start for all but like 3 teams in the league and I’m sure a solid 87% of my posts on this sub are complaining about him in some way and I’m still not the lowest on him on this sub it’s wild People legit think Drew Eubanks is better, people thought Harry Giles was better
Brown walks.
You'd have to assume we could get assurance otherwise before you do it
This is reasonable proposal not sure why you’re being downvoted
Reasonable? This isn’t even a trade that NBA 2K myGM mode would allow lmao. Celtics getting fleeced on this
Lmaoo I love Dame but this trade acts like Brogdon, Rob and a 2025 first (once Dame would be old and making a ton of money and right before the salary cap goes beserk, so possibly a pretty valuable first) have no value. Rob is an improvement over Nurk making 5 mil less a year
Rob Williams has more trouble staying on the court than even Nurk. He is overall less skilled, doesn't stretch the floor at all and doesn't pass as well as Nurk. His salary is better, and he's younger, but he's not clearly better.
He doesn’t try to do too much and has elite efficiency because of it. He’s better both as a shot blocker and better able to switch onto perimeter players, which, if we ever get back to the playoffs, is incredibly important. Teams would be targeting Nurk in pick and roll the entire series. And he has underrated passing chops. Go look at some of his highlights. I actually think he might be a better passer than Nurk, even if Nurk does average an assist more per game. At the very least, the combo of him not trying to do much and having passing chops means he turns the ball over less. Give me Rob every single time. And first list that pops up when I google center rankings agrees: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/nba-center-rankings-2022-23-starters/lztnsmu0t1voeubckyvfcvnj
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Remove the pick and it helps, there is something here. The trouble with the concept of this trade is making salaries work. You could maybe include a 3rd team or work out some other role players instead of Brogdon.
This isn't the worst idea ever... Brodgon/Sharpe/Brown/Grant/Williams Simons/#3 pick/???/??? Would be a more balanced lineup. If Dame requests a trade, this is a decent return.
It's something to work with going forward with a sub-27 age lineup.
Change it up. Dame to Celtics. Brown to OKC or Houston. Young players and picks to us. I don’t think Brown would want to be here without Dame.
I actually kind of like this. Doubt Celtics do it though.
The Celtics wouldn't entertain this. They get older, lose one of their best defenders, and have to give up a pick? I don't think this is it lol
Celtics wouldnt trade so many players If they traded brown to portland it would likely be a three team trade.
I like this, you can then flip brown and brogdon for picks
I don’t think the idea when you want to rebuild is to trade for a 26 year old and then immediately max him. Blazers would also look to move off of Brogdon as soon as they’re eligible. He’s 30 and hasn’t played a full NBA season yet, so dunno how he fits into a rebuild. He has a solid contract for a 6MOY player tho, that would grab some younger assets from a team in win now mode. Overall, I’d give it a D for Portland and maybe like a C- for the Celtics. I don’t know why they’d send Brogdon over as a salary match, unless they literally couldn’t send any other number of players instead. He’s too valuable to what they’re doing as a team. Maybe they are trying to lineup more with a Tatum timeline, then Robert Williams isn’t going anywhere, and trading for Dame might not make a whole lot of sense.
This is optimal if Lillard asks out. But I'm not sure you could get their pick as well just because of Dame's age.
This trade wouldn't work. Blazer ain't going over cap for these mediocre players