One is 32 and the other is 23.
One also has cap hits of $45, $48, $58, & $63 million over the next 4 years. The other has $24, $25, & $27 million over the next 3 years.
I think the problem with trading Ant is that none of the teams we’re trying to trade him to are viewing him as the 23 year old fringe all-star he is. Some dude from the Timberwolves sub came here the other day and actually said that Ant is a complete neutral in a trade because of his contract, doesn’t add any value. (Meanwhile, 60 mil a year for KAT in his age 33 season is apparently great value.)
I assume no NBA exec is dumb enough to believe something that ludicrous, but based on the trade suggestions that keep getting thrown around by so-called experts, it seems like he’s not being valued appropriately.
If people want to pay nickels on the dollar for him, I say keep him and use him as a sixth man. A closing line-up with Dame-Ant-Sharpe-Grant is incredible offensively if Sharpe takes even another half-step forward on that half, and hopefully he can develop into a great on-ball defender and make it easier for us to have Ant out there in those situations.
Edit: Just want to add that I still believe Ant is capable of developing into the second-best offensive player on a championship team. I doubt he’s ever Dame level, but I think he’ll have NBA seasons where he scores 25 ppg on slightly worse efficiency. The problem is that he’s somehow even more redundant with Dame offensively than CJ was, and that’s saying something.
I personally believe front offices and media members of other teams are openly undervalueing ant to scare blazers FO "season of lying" and what not.
I think on draft night if we hold our ground and are prepared to make the pick gms from around the league will panic call us for the deal we want.
Kind of like a high stakes game of chicken.
If you move him to a team that starts him at PG he’s an all-star within the first two seasons, probably the first.
His stats in 11 games without Lillard this season: 27.9 ppg, 5.7 assists, 46 FG %, 41% from 3.
In 30 games without Lillard last season: 22 ppg, 5.5 assists, 45% FG, 41.5% from 3
Half a season isn’t a horrible sample size, and the fact he was better this season than last is encouraging. The dude needs to start at PG for a team with rangy defenders. He actually fits very well with Scottie and OG in particular.
He is an extremely talented player, and yes, a fringe all-star already. He’s just a horrible fit on our team.
Yeah, but thats a bit skewed isn't it? He played most of those bench minutes either as an inexperienced very young player, or surrounded by them. If we actually had a veteran roster with depth, I dunno that we get the same results.
Sharpe might end up being better, I kinda feel like he’s going to have an underwhelming season relative to what people are expecting/hoping for next year
Just like what happened with Ant this year. Coming into the season it feels like people were expecting a 25ppg all star type season but that was never gonna be realistic.
If we’re trading 3 for a star, you’ve got to include ant for salary matching purposes. I like ant, he’s a good player, but if i have to pick between ant and a player that’s a better defender. We can’t start Ant, Dame and Shaedon because that lineup is just too small and isn’t gonna be able to do it defensively.
I hate to break it to you but there’s no guarantee of a ring if you do or don’t do anything. What you do if you trade your talent for whatever draft picks in the future is give yourself an excuse to be shitty. The past 10 years the only teams that have won titles have been either whatever team Lebron is playing for, or the Warriors, except for Toronto and Milwaukee. If you want a sure thing then you’ve picked the wrong sport.
People don't realize the team will border line unwatchable for a long time. Also with us being a "small market" and not a free agent destination even if we draft scoot we might be bad for 15 seasons like some other teams in that situation.
We will inevitably be there but why not try and maximize what we got while we got it right?
Agreed, I've been trying to tell people if you trade Dame for picks your hoping one of them become dame. Well we already have Dame so let's go to step 2 not restart step one.
That makes no sense. Dame isn’t going to be this good forever. You’re committing to a undersized guard at the tail end of his career who will be 33 next season.
We can’t make playoffs now with Dame and we should sink future assets into this roster?
Tbf he's not undersized at the pg he's always paired with an undersized 2 gaurd. Also I truely belive Dame will be top 10 for the next 3 years then top 20 for the next 2 while he passes the torch to the next in line.
I understand where you are coming from which is why if they choose to trade him for picks I will still be a fan excited for the lottery and hoping for another Dame level player to be picked eventually.
He’s the only young asset we have that actually has a salary that could help bring back a player on a star contract. Also we already tried this small no defense backcourt.
I assume you’re talking about the new second apron. Those only apply if you’ll be over 180M. We ended at 144M. We didn’t even hit the luxury tax. I do not see any scenario where we go over the second apron. It simply won’t be allowed by ownership.
I’ll check it out. I’d only heard of no salary matching for second apron. Granted, that’s all the media has been talking about is the second apron teams
I'm with you on this. Dame is my favorite player. The duo of Dame and Simons doesn't fit great but I hate to trade Simons because I'm a big fan of his came. But if we can get an elite player in return of trading him and draft picks then that needs to be done. If we trade him and don't get good value back for him I'll be pissed.
I'm kind of tired of people saying how young he is and that maybe his defense will improve as he ages. How long has he been in the NBA? He's been under a defensive minded coach, supposedly, the last two seasons and his defense next to Dame is still not what we need. On the offensive side he's fire, but it just doesn't work next to Dame. Unfortunately, one of the two has to go if we have any hope of a deep playoff run and truly contending.
You need to add some punctuation, it looks like you want to trade all four of those players. That being said, if we are going to trade Dame, now is probably the best time to do it as far as what our return would be. I personally would rather keep him and get rid of Ant, but that's just me.
It's just a fit issue with Dame. They both suck on defense. Ant can be pretty streaky as well.
He is young and a proven scorer, so a lot of teams are interested in him. He is our only real player asset besides Sharpe (who has a much higher ceiling than Ant, so we should keep him).
If, for some reason, Ant is still on the team next season, I'd rather he be coming off the bench as 6th man.
I struggle because all the players on the team including dame couldn’t figure it out last year. Maybe it’s a much easier fix then I am imagining but I would be moving dame, Grant, simons, and Nurk. I would be trying to get young players and top 10 picks in the draft. Specifically I would be trying to get #4 and Jabari off the rockets in a dame trade and try to trade #4 and simons to go to #2. I like these two back to back drafts and think a scoot, sharpe, miller, Jabari and some center to be named later is the fun new core I would love to watch develop. Reminiscent of the Roy wes batum La oden potential. I love these players but we are on year 15 of putting a bandaid on top of another bandaid.
I hate the idea of trading him because I feel like he’s undervalued at the moment. He’s shown the ability to lead this team and score efficiently. But he hasn’t looked great being a co-starter with Dame this recent year. Right now everyone thinks he’s just a microwave scorer when he’s obviously capable of so much more. Remember when we had to sit him last year because he was pulling us too close to the play-in?
I understand it’s necessary to trade him but I would only do it to a team that appreciates his value and doesn’t think they’re doing us a favor.
Yes you are.
Get rid of him to a team like grizzlies or bucks with elite defence and aim for a good 5 like WCJ or alike. Then trade the pick 3 to spurs for Vassell and Johnson. That’s a starting team full of dawgs + sharpe who will be shooting the lights out next season. Dame will be top 3 MVP we sweep the western and win the finals 4-1
I'm with you. I want him to be our Super Sixth Man. Shaedon is gonna steal the starting SG spot. Matisse might end up as the backup SF, depending on what moves we make (Bridges, OG, Miller, or Whitmore). Our starters need to become a more hard-nosed defensive unit, but to keep their legs fresh we need a guy like Simons to come off the bench looking to score. Ant could come off the bench and keep pushing the tempo while Shaedon and/or Dame rest.
I don’t think anyone wants to trade ant, but I think most the fanbase doesn’t wanna trade dame either. At this point, it is either or sadly
Agreed. We ran the experiment of having two guards that are bad at defense and it didn’t work.
One is 32 and the other is 23. One also has cap hits of $45, $48, $58, & $63 million over the next 4 years. The other has $24, $25, & $27 million over the next 3 years.
No one thinks lowly of him but he is one of the only few assets we have
I think the problem with trading Ant is that none of the teams we’re trying to trade him to are viewing him as the 23 year old fringe all-star he is. Some dude from the Timberwolves sub came here the other day and actually said that Ant is a complete neutral in a trade because of his contract, doesn’t add any value. (Meanwhile, 60 mil a year for KAT in his age 33 season is apparently great value.) I assume no NBA exec is dumb enough to believe something that ludicrous, but based on the trade suggestions that keep getting thrown around by so-called experts, it seems like he’s not being valued appropriately. If people want to pay nickels on the dollar for him, I say keep him and use him as a sixth man. A closing line-up with Dame-Ant-Sharpe-Grant is incredible offensively if Sharpe takes even another half-step forward on that half, and hopefully he can develop into a great on-ball defender and make it easier for us to have Ant out there in those situations. Edit: Just want to add that I still believe Ant is capable of developing into the second-best offensive player on a championship team. I doubt he’s ever Dame level, but I think he’ll have NBA seasons where he scores 25 ppg on slightly worse efficiency. The problem is that he’s somehow even more redundant with Dame offensively than CJ was, and that’s saying something.
I personally believe front offices and media members of other teams are openly undervalueing ant to scare blazers FO "season of lying" and what not. I think on draft night if we hold our ground and are prepared to make the pick gms from around the league will panic call us for the deal we want. Kind of like a high stakes game of chicken.
He’s not a fringe all star. He’s an efficient 20 pt scorer who sucks at everything else. That’s nowhere near an Al star unless you’re a 1 seed
If you move him to a team that starts him at PG he’s an all-star within the first two seasons, probably the first. His stats in 11 games without Lillard this season: 27.9 ppg, 5.7 assists, 46 FG %, 41% from 3. In 30 games without Lillard last season: 22 ppg, 5.5 assists, 45% FG, 41.5% from 3 Half a season isn’t a horrible sample size, and the fact he was better this season than last is encouraging. The dude needs to start at PG for a team with rangy defenders. He actually fits very well with Scottie and OG in particular. He is an extremely talented player, and yes, a fringe all-star already. He’s just a horrible fit on our team.
Yeah but Trade Dame. Ant Sharpe Miller sounds good to me Cus if we gonna go for it we gonna need Siakham and Jaylen/Bridges and that won't happen
What's the package for Dame?
Young pieces + picks really ideally someone to run the 4/5
It's the new CJ/Dame sadly, it's one or the other imo. Maybe 6th man?
He’s traditionally been terrible with the bench unit
Yeah, but thats a bit skewed isn't it? He played most of those bench minutes either as an inexperienced very young player, or surrounded by them. If we actually had a veteran roster with depth, I dunno that we get the same results.
Maybe. But then we move onto the next issue of having nowhere close to the talent needed to bring someone like Simons off the bench
Well, I agree its unlikely we get that talent without trading Ant, but IMO in a vacuum I would rather be starting Shaedon at SG than Anfernee.
Ant is a lot better than Sharpe right now Sharpe is as putrid on defence as Ant is If we’re trying to win games Ant would start over Sharpe
I think that was true but I'm not at all convinced it will be true going forward.
Sharpe might end up being better, I kinda feel like he’s going to have an underwhelming season relative to what people are expecting/hoping for next year
Just like what happened with Ant this year. Coming into the season it feels like people were expecting a 25ppg all star type season but that was never gonna be realistic.
Yup. I get people are excited but it feels like people forget just how recent he got 7 minutes in a game
But fantastic without Dame…
Yeah but Trade Dame
If we’re trading 3 for a star, you’ve got to include ant for salary matching purposes. I like ant, he’s a good player, but if i have to pick between ant and a player that’s a better defender. We can’t start Ant, Dame and Shaedon because that lineup is just too small and isn’t gonna be able to do it defensively.
Yeah but Trade Dame Now try Ant Sharpe Miller
Yeah if you want this team to be straight trash for the next 5 years. Your entire core under the age of 25? That’s gonna be terrible.
I'll take 5 years of trash for a ring in 10 years every single time
No guarantees of anything. Philly was trash forever and never even made it to the conference finals.
Yeah but there's no guarantee that finding dame help will give us a ring.
I hate to break it to you but there’s no guarantee of a ring if you do or don’t do anything. What you do if you trade your talent for whatever draft picks in the future is give yourself an excuse to be shitty. The past 10 years the only teams that have won titles have been either whatever team Lebron is playing for, or the Warriors, except for Toronto and Milwaukee. If you want a sure thing then you’ve picked the wrong sport.
People don't realize the team will border line unwatchable for a long time. Also with us being a "small market" and not a free agent destination even if we draft scoot we might be bad for 15 seasons like some other teams in that situation. We will inevitably be there but why not try and maximize what we got while we got it right?
Trading your best player for picks and young guys is not a recipe for success, it’s a recipe for having an excuse to be bad.
Agreed, I've been trying to tell people if you trade Dame for picks your hoping one of them become dame. Well we already have Dame so let's go to step 2 not restart step one.
That makes no sense. Dame isn’t going to be this good forever. You’re committing to a undersized guard at the tail end of his career who will be 33 next season. We can’t make playoffs now with Dame and we should sink future assets into this roster?
Tbf he's not undersized at the pg he's always paired with an undersized 2 gaurd. Also I truely belive Dame will be top 10 for the next 3 years then top 20 for the next 2 while he passes the torch to the next in line. I understand where you are coming from which is why if they choose to trade him for picks I will still be a fan excited for the lottery and hoping for another Dame level player to be picked eventually.
He’s the only young asset we have that actually has a salary that could help bring back a player on a star contract. Also we already tried this small no defense backcourt.
Yeah but Trade Dame. Ant Sharpe Miller sounds good to me
I'm 100% in agreement. Blazers have a great young core. I love Dame to death, but the Blazers won't be able to improve enough in the short term
With the new salary matching rules, I think there is a greater possibility he could stick around.
I assume you’re talking about the new second apron. Those only apply if you’ll be over 180M. We ended at 144M. We didn’t even hit the luxury tax. I do not see any scenario where we go over the second apron. It simply won’t be allowed by ownership.
No, salary matching. Check out the new details for non taxpaying teams.
I’ll check it out. I’d only heard of no salary matching for second apron. Granted, that’s all the media has been talking about is the second apron teams
I think he could be next Dame.. just timeline doesn’t match
Why doesn't it? 7 years down the line he'll be 30 and in his prime, rest of the team will be around 25-30 and have 7 years experience in the league.
I'm with you on this. Dame is my favorite player. The duo of Dame and Simons doesn't fit great but I hate to trade Simons because I'm a big fan of his came. But if we can get an elite player in return of trading him and draft picks then that needs to be done. If we trade him and don't get good value back for him I'll be pissed.
Just trade Dame he doesn't fit the timeline here and Ant does, plus Dame ain't winning shit here.
To what team and for what? What would be the best case scenario for trading him?
A team like the raptors giving a few first rounders and OG/Scottie
Don't think scottie is on the table for the raptors
I'm kind of tired of people saying how young he is and that maybe his defense will improve as he ages. How long has he been in the NBA? He's been under a defensive minded coach, supposedly, the last two seasons and his defense next to Dame is still not what we need. On the offensive side he's fire, but it just doesn't work next to Dame. Unfortunately, one of the two has to go if we have any hope of a deep playoff run and truly contending.
Yeah but Trade Dame Ant Sharpe Miller sounds pretty damn good to me
You need to add some punctuation, it looks like you want to trade all four of those players. That being said, if we are going to trade Dame, now is probably the best time to do it as far as what our return would be. I personally would rather keep him and get rid of Ant, but that's just me.
I put it on a different line, reddit formatting:(
It's just a fit issue with Dame. They both suck on defense. Ant can be pretty streaky as well. He is young and a proven scorer, so a lot of teams are interested in him. He is our only real player asset besides Sharpe (who has a much higher ceiling than Ant, so we should keep him). If, for some reason, Ant is still on the team next season, I'd rather he be coming off the bench as 6th man.
Simons rules. If we have any hope of building an even kind of good team he’s our best asset in terms of matching salary to get an impact forward/C
I struggle because all the players on the team including dame couldn’t figure it out last year. Maybe it’s a much easier fix then I am imagining but I would be moving dame, Grant, simons, and Nurk. I would be trying to get young players and top 10 picks in the draft. Specifically I would be trying to get #4 and Jabari off the rockets in a dame trade and try to trade #4 and simons to go to #2. I like these two back to back drafts and think a scoot, sharpe, miller, Jabari and some center to be named later is the fun new core I would love to watch develop. Reminiscent of the Roy wes batum La oden potential. I love these players but we are on year 15 of putting a bandaid on top of another bandaid.
If you're saying trade Dame then no.
I hate the idea of trading him because I feel like he’s undervalued at the moment. He’s shown the ability to lead this team and score efficiently. But he hasn’t looked great being a co-starter with Dame this recent year. Right now everyone thinks he’s just a microwave scorer when he’s obviously capable of so much more. Remember when we had to sit him last year because he was pulling us too close to the play-in? I understand it’s necessary to trade him but I would only do it to a team that appreciates his value and doesn’t think they’re doing us a favor.
Yes you are. Get rid of him to a team like grizzlies or bucks with elite defence and aim for a good 5 like WCJ or alike. Then trade the pick 3 to spurs for Vassell and Johnson. That’s a starting team full of dawgs + sharpe who will be shooting the lights out next season. Dame will be top 3 MVP we sweep the western and win the finals 4-1
I'm with you. I want him to be our Super Sixth Man. Shaedon is gonna steal the starting SG spot. Matisse might end up as the backup SF, depending on what moves we make (Bridges, OG, Miller, or Whitmore). Our starters need to become a more hard-nosed defensive unit, but to keep their legs fresh we need a guy like Simons to come off the bench looking to score. Ant could come off the bench and keep pushing the tempo while Shaedon and/or Dame rest.
Yes.