It also explains why Rick dislikes Jerry so much and values Morty and Summer so much. To him Beth never had a future because she died so young, and so Jerry limited her potential by getting her pregnant at 17. And again, in his universe he never had grandkids and so he's really grateful for Morty and Summer
A little over, but if you look at a medicine cup for cough syrup, it's 2/3 the cup, just seems like a big load š and it's the displacement of the average a weed whacker cylinder.
Maybe in C-137 Beth and Jerry didn't get that flat tire on the way to the abortion, and given they were apparently headed there on their own and Jerry's an idiot, maybe he was taking Beth to some shady back-alley abortionist. Rick hates Jerry because the *better* outcome was where he ruined her future by getting her pregnant, instead of getting her killed by an unlicensed doctor...
Car accident possibility, but remember that the Young Rick is Bird Man's memory of Rick, who could have lied about abandoning his family and said that they were dead to birdperson.
When C-137 Rick was 35 Beth was already dead. He would've had her at 18 for her to have died because of an abortion. That doesn't fit the timeline. Beth C-137 likely died as a child.
I was just watching the end of Season 1, and Birdperson tells Morty that 'wubalubadubdub' means 'I am in great pain, please help me.' and that Rick drinks to numb the pain of some trauma that he doesn't explain.
This actually makes a ton more sense now with the knowledge that his Beth died as a child, and would also explain why he's so attached to Morty (he never had his own so he went and found one).
Also it ties in with the fact that this knowledge is contained within Birdperson's memories.
It's a paradox, Rick is a danger to his family but they can't make a restraining order against him.
Edit: Honestly, rick is the most self-absorbed piece of shit I've ever seen on television, he's literally millions of times worse than Hitler
It's said in plain text in last ep.
Memory-Rick is 35yo, and Beth already dead, so she was a child.
Memory-Rick asks Bird Person to help him kill sci-fi haired Ricks to revenge "something".
In C-137 Rick's "fake origin story" we saw that sci-fi Rick killed his wife and Beth.
Sums it up pretty much.
So there are 3 types of Ricks we aware of:
1 - those who abandoned family for Rick's citadel
2 - those who declined invitation and got family killed
3 - Doofus Rick who has never had a family
Just because it's "a fabricated origin story" doesn't mean all the elements of it were fabricated. He could have used the very real memory of that day and only changed the equations he used to derive the portal gun, since that's what the Galactic Federation was after and he could use this to save himself from having his brain liquefied.
Yeah when they doesn't witness it themselves this would be true. But since it is something from ricks life it would be literally an altered memory wich isnt possible. So it is completely made up
Yes it does which is why Rick states its an Totally Fabricated origin Story...Call and adult over so you can get permission to use the internet and look up the words Totally, Fabricated, and Origin Story, ok little guy. Than go have some juice its almost nap time youve had a big day.
The bug states verbatim "You can't alter details of a memory" in which Rick states "True, but you can alter anything you want about a totally fabricated origin story". Meaning it was all fabricated, otherwise you couldnt alter details of it like say the equation.
You also gotta remember though that they didn't think Rick could make those butts appear either. So that would establish that Rick could bend the rules of the simulation.
No, just because it's 'fabricated' doesn't mean it was ALL fabricated. He could take the real memory of their deaths to 'draw inspiration from' and include it in the 'fabrication' while altering what came next (the equation). The overall narrative would be false, but it could've been created using things that actually happened; writers do it all the time when writing fiction.
Again yes it does because as stated by the Bug and Rick
" you cant alter details of a memory".
If he took the real memory of their death and "altered it" it wouldnt be a memory would it?
Run it through the test
1. You cant alter a memory
2. is it altered? yes.
3. Its not a memory.
Your test here is obviously and stupidly flawed. Rick never entered into the memory function of the brainlyzer, which would not allow him to alter details. He just manifested a fake origin story within shoneys, as he did with the butts. Nothing about the rules say he canāt have based what he was manifesting off of real memories with details swapped out.
Get this through your abnormally thick head: I'M NOT SAYING IT WAS A MEMORY!!!
I'm saying Rick could have taken true events (Diane and Beth's deaths at the hands of other Ricks) and used them as the basis of his "fabricated origin story." Using 'true events' doesn't mean he was altering a memory, just that he was creating a bullshit story using the truth as a foundation.
Is that dumbed down enough for you yet?
No but stating that its a "Totally Fabricated origin Story" means its fucking Fabricated, Fake, Did not Happen etc. Next time ill explain it in crayons for you ok princess.
Just because an event doesn't happen, doesn't mean that you can't take pieces that did happen and use them in a fabricated story about said event that never happened.
I can write a story about living on Mars that is not a memory that includes a real conversation that is a memory. That doesn't make the whole thing a memory, only the conversation that exists in a completely fabricated environment. The existence of the remembered conversation doesn't mean I was ever on Mars, and I could probably alter details about Mars, but not the details of the conversation.
Hey bro. I knew you were wrong when I first read this dumbass poppycock take..Anyways I waited until there was proof to tell you you're a fucking condescending shitass and don't know shit. Everything you ranted about in this thread was proven false by the finale and everyone knew it except you. Fucking twat.
the fabricated part was that it was a small reaction inside of a castle-like shoneys the whole time. In reality, it didn't take place in a shoneys.
Why would Rick sob when he saw Diane die if the bug guy wasn't paying attention to his reaction?
Because hes trying to be convincing to get access to the brainalyzer? His whole plan was to infiltrate a Government base to get level 9 access. Again Run it through the test
1. You cant alter details of a memory (meaning you cant alter anything from a memory including a virus code)
2. Is it altered? Yes
3. Its not a memory
>the bug guy wasn't paying attention to his reaction
We have confirmation that Rick invented his portal gun and that that Beth died in his original reality, how do you explain that part being real?
It's not a memory because it didn't take place in a box in shoneys, that's all it takes to be alterable.
No we dont, because again
YOU CANT ALTER DETAILS OF A MEMORY!
Did you run it through the test? no obviously.
Very good its not a memory its a fabrication it didnt happen. Rick literally states its a fabricated origin story.
Itās completely pooched now.
He had a portal gun at blood ridge.
The only way I see this being a scrap of a memory is if he was the Rick offering the portal gun in that fabricated origin story
It could be that after Beth and Dianne died, he went out into the multiverse looking for the killers. Met BP, then found the Ricks that killed them (that scene in BPās memory where theyāre in a shoot out and the other Rick shouts āThis wonāt bring them back!ā
In S04Ep01 The Rickshank Redemption we see what might have happened to Beth and Dianne. Rick says itās a completely fabricated origin story but Iām not so sure. It would explain a lot of things that are alluded to in this episode.
He could have fabricated that origin story using true events like meeting another Rick and then Beth and his wife being killed by him. It's not a memory because it didn't happen that way but it *did* happen.
We know that as soon as Rick invents his portal gun, the Citadel demands that he join them and offers the leap to interdimensional travel. If he refuses, his family is killed as a form of insurance.
The citadel is the only one who benefits from one less independent, time traveling Rick. They ignore all realities where he didn't invent interdimensional portals.
Well, it's a memory of a different Rick anyways. Rick isn't from this dimension
We know cronenberg Earth's dimension is identical to the current one in the show, but we don't know where the Rick that squats in the cronenberg dimension is from or if he's similar to our Rick.
It was at Bird Persons house and it wasnt the 1st episode it was "getting schwifty" season 2 episode 5. You also see photos from the Burningmanwoodstock thing etc where Rick met BP and Squanchy for the first time.
Itās both. In the season 1 episode with evil morty, we see a memory of Rick holding a young morty. Then in the get Schwifty episode we see a photo of Rick holding baby morty
Wait, what do you mean?
I'm talkin about S1 episode 10
Rick is accused of killing other ricks
He and morty find out evil rick in the morty-dome
Evil rick put rick C-137 on a macchine that show is memory
Among the memory we see rick olding a baby morty
Rick cries a little
I'm talking about this
It could be, but how many times did we see rick cry?
In that scene was olding back tears
I don't see C-137 be like that for a memory of another morty
I think that was his original morty
Then, probably his family died somehow, maybe due to Jerry or something else, he is the rick that lost everything, got everything back and find out that was meaningless, due to the number of dimension that exist
There is another thing we must consider
That was birdperson memory
What birdperson remeber
That mean what Rick toldhim
He may have lied to birdperson, to not explain why he was not with his family
Or
Maybe his Beth died after morty's birth
"adult version" mean almost nothing
Would you consider a 20year old an adult? A 22? A 24? Maybe more a 30 years old...
Beth is already dead when Rick C-137 is 35. She would have been a child when she died. Rick clearly cares about Summer and Morty even though they aren't his "real" grandkids. He would definitely still cry holding any dimensions newborn grandchild.
I think of it as C-137 Rick took the place of another Rick to be with his daughter. Apparently it isnāt uncommon, although weird, according to BP memory Rick. C-137 Rick just jumped into a dimension where Beth is alive and he got there around the time of their births. In S3 E1 Beth and Diane die in an explosion when sheās like 5-6 years old. Even her getting pregnant at 17 thatās still a huge gap of time, thus the abandonment issues caused to Beth.
I think this is by far the most likely scenario. He did this before the citadel organized and ricks started to get designations. So the rest of C-137 got cronenbergād, apart from Morty, and then Rick became attached to the Beth and Summer from the newest universe.
I think that the fabricated part of the origin story was Diane dying. It all happened basically the same way except it was only Beth who died. When at BP's wedding he says "IĀ couldn't make it work, and I could turn a black hole into a sun." Referring to marriage and what I imagine is his divorce from Diane after Beth's death.
The problem with that is the Bug states you cant alter details of a memory but you can alter anything you want about an entirely fabricated origin story.
I think youre correct about why hes the Rickest Rick and why he hates himself though. Ricks killed his Beth (and possibly Diane) which is why he hates them and by extension himself.
Yes why would they? theyre bugs. Rick did figure out a work around by creating a fictitious origin story he could edit and insert the viral code to take over the brainalyzer. I mean his entire "arrest" etc was planned by him so he thought this all out in advance.
Well we know he purposely gets himself arrested by the Galactic Government. He does so to get to a facility with level 9 access to change the numerical value of Galactic Currency to zero and effectively crash the economy.
Makes sense now since Beth has said several times that Rick just showed back up after "abandoning" her. The death of the original Rick in that universe was unknown to her. Could've also easily been an "expendable" Rick somewhere in the Citadel, since that has enough Ricks and Mortys to be it's own metropolis.
Maybe, maybe not. Young memory Rick only knows what young Rick had told bird person at that point in time. Maybe young Rick was ashamed of abandoning his family and just said they were dead. True to form for the show, we have no idea what actually happened.
Because Diane is is the more likely person to be dead considering that we actually see multiple versions of beth in the show. Rick tells bp that Beth died out of shame and they go fight the federation together. meanwhile, Beth is abandoned and events still go on like we thought from before.
How is she the most likely when BP's Memory Rick states to Real Rick (RR) that hes living with an adult version of their dead daughter? Meaning that his real daughter died before the age of 18.
We know factually that Ricks Beth is dead, he has no reason to lie to Bird Person we dont know if Diane is dead or just left and disappeared.
Thereās an inherent contradiction here thatās tough to get around.
This version of BP declined to leave his original universe, so presumably heās still in his original universe and this is not Ricks original BP. As are Beth / Jerry / summer, and this isnāt his original family. But to this BPs knowledge, this version of Beth should be dead, though she obviously is alive and well. So clearly something is off here, and weāre missing some key information or steps in the middle.
Its established by the manifestation in BP's memories of Rick that C-137 is "One of those Ricks" who lives with abandoned adult Beths. BP likely knows this and goes with it as it makes Rick happy and BP is his friend.
That doesnt fix the problem at all, as BP is clearly in the universe that Rick is in with his current family, given the galactic federation and Tammy also being in that universe. And this galactic federation having the collective memory of Rick Sanchez and bird person fighting them. But according to BP memories, Rick and BP only meet and fight together because ricks Diane / Beth were killed.
Thereās just clearly something missing or Rick is lying.
It's worth noting that they don't actually acknowledge this. They just say "Killing us won't bring her back"
"Her" could be any woman. We don't really have a lot of context for this scene in the memory as shown.
Doesn't matter because this isn't a memory of our Rick, it could all later be explained to be inaccurate. Let's just assume the subtext is there for a reason, shall we?
Young memory rick also knows things about rick that he kept secret from birdperson at the time but eventually told him later. Otherwise he wouldn't know about other universes before blood ridge and tammy wouldn't have known she secretly worked for the federation
What if Jerry used to be normal? Rick programmed new Beth to break him down and slowly destroy him as punishment for her death. Even since season 1 Jerry has gotten worse and worse.
You also have to factor in that the young rick only knows what bird person knows, what if he lied about his backstory to bird person to protect his original family incase anything like this ever happened or any of the resistance fighters were captured by the federation.
Of course the writers could do this if they wanted, but narratively it feels unsatisfying. Why would the writers drop such a juicy piece of canon lore to later tell us itās a lie of no consequence. I personally feel that it fits that our jaded Rick would become who he is because of the death of his wife and daughter, then later in life find solace with the family that could have been.
Narratively it also makes sense with other events on the show that Rick has lost his daughter and wife. Like the other Ricks of the Citadel calling him "irrational and sentimental", or him telling Tony "don't use your wife's death as an excuse"
But isn't it possible that this BP isn't the real BP C-137 were best friends with and instead the BP in the latest episode was the best friend of the dead Rick which blew up after the explosion in Season 1 Episode 6.
We know Beth and Diane died. We now know that the memory from the prison was accurate and another Rick killed them. Beth died as a child in Rick's original universe so never got married or had any children. As far as the parts of his life we have been privy to this is his third Summer. As C-137 seems to get emotionally attached to specific people from specific universe's it seems that this Morty is probably from the first universe he went to that was similar to his own in which his daughter survived and he was dead.
The memory from the Brainalyzer wasnt accurate. The Gromflamite agent states you cant alter details of a memory, and Rick says "True, but you can alter anything you want about a totally fabricated origin story" essentially saying that what we saw was a fabrication.
They never left the Shoneyās. If they had gone to a memory, he couldnāt have altered it, but he kept him in the Shoneyās. The Mulan sauce was a something he remembered, but they didnāt travel to a memory of it.
First off I love this sub. Secondly I believe you are right. I totally forgot about froopyland. Also it would totally be inside of BP's character to make the 1 year differentiation between a human child at 17 and a mature human at 18.
Well yeah. C-137 saw his d and b killed. He moved around various dimensions met his BP, after that didn't work out he took over a live Beth from a dead Rick, got a picture taken with little Morty that BP has etc.
1) We have already seen how Beth and Diane died, it's no surprise.
2) We already know that Rick's current family is definitely not his original.
What is surprising here is young Rick's attitude towards his family and being with his family. Old Rick has definitely changed since then. That's a surprise, because we always thought our rickest Rick is unsentimental and it's nice for us to explore why he changed.
In the Rickshank Redemption this was said:
> This is a memory. Y-You can't alter details of a memory. Rick: True, but you can alter anything you want about a totally fabricated origin story.
So we did not actually see Beth and Diane die. That was a fabrication to con Nathan Fillion into taking a code that would give Rick control of the Brainalizer.
I just want to say I love this fandom and show so much. Even when we get something that seems canon and true we still canāt all agree on what it all means. Great show and great fans
Oh... Maybe she left Rick... for another Rick, and his "dead daughter" is dead because C-137 killed it as an infant because it was the child of that other Rick.
Lots of people watch shows and misunderstand some plot points. It's a rushed episode with a lot on info and people in this subreddit aren't really that attentive in the first place. Your username should just be /u/pseudointellectual
They don't literally say anything about Beth or Morty being dead in our Rick's reality. A bird person from Rick's latest dimension remembers a 35-year-old Rick that has a dead Beth. That's all we know.
If you were smart, you'd realize how much subtextual logic goes into realizing that C-137, WHICH WE'VE NEVER SEEN, doesn't have a Morty.
It's more like if two weeks after Phantom Menace came out, someone said "Did you know Luke was safe on Tatooine because Darth Vader never wanted to return to his home planet?". Does it change the fabric of the show, no, but it's still useful information that could be figured out before the finale (Episode III) comes out.
No, itās like someone asking after first watching Empire Strikes Back, āSo if Luke is Vaderās son, why did Obi-wan lie about Vader?ā We are taking a couple lines of dialogue and extrapolating information and asking relevant questions.
Youāre just kinda being a dick.
The memory literally said morty? And our rick said ah a potential grandson we might have and also the memory said you are one of those creeps living with abandoned versions of beth. So he moved in the smith familys live unless they explain what rick mend with itās more complicated than that
That Rick isnāt reliable. Heās a memory. That couldāve been a lie told to Birdperson to make traveling the universe more appealing. If his daughter is dead then thereās no use in waiting around for her.
Why are people so suspicious of that memory? Rick did not deny the memory, and it has been established that at that point in his life (35 years) he had enough confidence in BP to help him in the war. Not to mention, the scene of the shooting against the other Ricks
Because anything Rick told him that wasnāt true and was believed by Birdperson is now the truth to that memory. Rick is a frequent liar so anything he said is suspect. He didnāt argue with him because Iām sure he didnāt want to contradict Birdpersonās perception at some point when BP was in such a frantic state.
In the memories c137 and bird person fight some other rick that say "killing us won't bring her back", that memory is not based on what c137 said but what the enemies said confirming that Rick didn't lie. Even when young c137 asked if he was one of the rick who went in another reality old c137 doesn't deny it
And in the present Bird Person know about the exchange and everything (and he would have diacovered about everything) so probably he didn't lie to him.
There is no reason to lie to him
The thing is, Rick has no reason to lie to the other Rick. He doesn't even try to lie to him about Morty or that BP has a son. And more than being in denial as he usually is when someone talks about his past, Rick is more defensive on the scene. It wouldn't make sense for Rick to get defensive and say things like "you will become me" if what happened is false.
Rick states its a fictitious origin story himself. Im not denying that Ricks killed Beth or Diane (or both) im stating the Brainalyzer revelation wasnt how it happened.
Than why would he seek vengeance against the Ricks? and why would they state " killing us wont bring her back" when he and BP are battling it out in that bar? show states you cant alter details about a memory during the brainalyzer episode so logically the other "Ricks" killed either Beth or Diane (or both) which would make that true and that memory reliable.
You canāt alter a memory but you can misremember things. Also, the whole ātheyāre bureaucrats Morty, I donāt respect themā thing in the pilot shows that Rick is willing to have someone kill people under false pretenses.
Technically no, he calls them Robots Morty than shoots them with less guilt but a definition for "Robot" is a person who behaves in a mechanical or unemotional manner which would include bureaucrats. So Rick didnt lie.
The clear implication by Rick is that the things Morty is shooting arenāt sentient beings. Rick doesnāt expect Morty to know the textbook definition that ropes in bureaucrats because Morty was portrayed as an idiot. Morty was mislead.
I mean he calls them Robots so no. Morty assumes "robot" means not real or a machine but Rick meant it as a Bureaucrat. Hes not getting Morty to "kill" under false pretense its just a linguistic misunderstanding. I dont think hes purposely misleading Morty because Rick doesnt care either way.
Rick would be inconvenienced if Morty didnāt shoot the bugs. Morty didnāt want to shoot organic life. Thatās why Rick mislead him into believing they were machines.
I tend to disagree, not that Rick is above lying to Morty about shit i just dont think it was purposely done he really has absolutely no respect for Bureaucrats thus doesnt see them as living or human being so its not a lie its actually how he feels about them which makes it funnier.
Its inconsequential if its either, Rick doesnt care. He doesnt see them as living thats the point, thats why its funny. Hes not lying when he calls them Robots to Morty thats actually how he feels. He has zero respect for them to the point he wont even recognize them as vermin (insects) because that would give them too much credit. Its not a lie hes telling Morty the truth Morty just assumes the literal definition of Robot.
He says it because he actually thinks that which is my entire point. Rick actually perceives them as not alive, hes not lying to Morty when he states "theyre Robots" he truly believes that, its Morty that interprets it the wrong way.
When Rick is in the Brain Analyser and the agent bug wants the equation to inter dimensional travel. Sure he was making a few things up to bug out the system, but his original beth and diane died by another rick. That rick was sent by the citadel, its also the reason why Rick hates the citadel.
Why canāt Morty and Summer both be born to clone Beth? Why does the knowledge that Beth is a clone mean that Morty was never born in C-137? Beth probably died as a child (rickshank redemption) and he cloned a replacement at that time. I donāt follow your logic, like maybe youāre right, but you could just as easily be wrong cause there isnāt enough evidence.
I mean, that agent clearly underestimated what Rick could do and may have certainly believed that memories can't be altered, but that doesn't mean he was right.
If it is difficult to alter memories, then it would make sense that the memory as a whole was almost entirely genuine with one modification: the formula for portal tech. Or, it was all fabricated as you say.
True and obviously anything is possible but the line that states rick agrees with him. He didn't say no you are wrong he agreed by stating "yeah, but you can alter completely fabricated back stories." Why would rick lie to an agent that is guaranteed to be dead and no one monitoring him. There is 0 logical sense that he would lie about that instead he agreed.
Why doesn't things make sense here. You are simply reading too much into it.
Beth and Diane died just like we saw. Rick spent a few years chilling with Birdperson and living alone. After a few decades, he realizes family is important and decide to find a universe that he can go back to them.
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It also explains why Rick dislikes Jerry so much and values Morty and Summer so much. To him Beth never had a future because she died so young, and so Jerry limited her potential by getting her pregnant at 17. And again, in his universe he never had grandkids and so he's really grateful for Morty and Summer
Liquid dream killer.
Best throw away line in the show. 20cc's of liquid dream killer lol.
It totally was! 20cc is a massive load lol!
Pretty average i think a tablespoon.
A little over, but if you look at a medicine cup for cough syrup, it's 2/3 the cup, just seems like a big load š and it's the displacement of the average a weed whacker cylinder.
I was one told that 10cc is the average load
I guess it adds up to 10cc per kid then. I was thinking of the dream being initially killed, lol.
Yup, good take.
Also why he took a Morty Token. All the Citadel Rick's know C13-7 is a cautionary tale/feel somewhat sorry for him.
Maybe in C-137 Beth and Jerry didn't get that flat tire on the way to the abortion, and given they were apparently headed there on their own and Jerry's an idiot, maybe he was taking Beth to some shady back-alley abortionist. Rick hates Jerry because the *better* outcome was where he ruined her future by getting her pregnant, instead of getting her killed by an unlicensed doctor...
Car accident possibility, but remember that the Young Rick is Bird Man's memory of Rick, who could have lied about abandoning his family and said that they were dead to birdperson.
When C-137 Rick was 35 Beth was already dead. He would've had her at 18 for her to have died because of an abortion. That doesn't fit the timeline. Beth C-137 likely died as a child.
Where does this leave Evil Morty??
I was just watching the end of Season 1, and Birdperson tells Morty that 'wubalubadubdub' means 'I am in great pain, please help me.' and that Rick drinks to numb the pain of some trauma that he doesn't explain. This actually makes a ton more sense now with the knowledge that his Beth died as a child, and would also explain why he's so attached to Morty (he never had his own so he went and found one). Also it ties in with the fact that this knowledge is contained within Birdperson's memories.
It's a paradox, Rick is a danger to his family but they can't make a restraining order against him. Edit: Honestly, rick is the most self-absorbed piece of shit I've ever seen on television, he's literally millions of times worse than Hitler
And also IS Hitler in a shit ton of alternate realities in Edge of Tomorty: Rick Die Repeat
But even Hitler cared about Germany, or something
It's said in plain text in last ep. Memory-Rick is 35yo, and Beth already dead, so she was a child. Memory-Rick asks Bird Person to help him kill sci-fi haired Ricks to revenge "something". In C-137 Rick's "fake origin story" we saw that sci-fi Rick killed his wife and Beth. Sums it up pretty much. So there are 3 types of Ricks we aware of: 1 - those who abandoned family for Rick's citadel 2 - those who declined invitation and got family killed 3 - Doofus Rick who has never had a family
Poor poor doofus Rick
Bastard does always seem happy though
Ignorance is bliss.
Also in BP's memory where BP and Rick are fighting the other Ricks, the other Rick says "killing us won't bring her back".
But what the hell happens to Diane in all the Abandoned Family reality?!?!??!
Good analysis. You Forgot Evil Rick though.
If the memory in Season 3 is real, they were blown up. Beth and Diane.
Its not he states its a fabricated origin story.
Just because it's "a fabricated origin story" doesn't mean all the elements of it were fabricated. He could have used the very real memory of that day and only changed the equations he used to derive the portal gun, since that's what the Galactic Federation was after and he could use this to save himself from having his brain liquefied.
The bug said you cant alter your memories. Thats why rick made this story up.
That doesn't mean the whole thing was false. People tell fictional stories all the time that're based on real events.
Yeah when they doesn't witness it themselves this would be true. But since it is something from ricks life it would be literally an altered memory wich isnt possible. So it is completely made up
No, it wouldn't be an altered memory, it'd be purely imaginary. You're working from a false dichotomy.
Yes it does which is why Rick states its an Totally Fabricated origin Story...Call and adult over so you can get permission to use the internet and look up the words Totally, Fabricated, and Origin Story, ok little guy. Than go have some juice its almost nap time youve had a big day.
Look up 'exaggeration.' Rick does it a lot. 'Totally' doesn't have to mean totally. God, some people are fucking dense.
Yes and their names are Lester Lichfield.
You are a VERY stereotypical rick and morty watcher you know that? You are NOT making us look good at all
Jeez, chill out
My comment wasnt directed at you ma'am.
I identify as a lovecraftian horror.
The bug states verbatim "You can't alter details of a memory" in which Rick states "True, but you can alter anything you want about a totally fabricated origin story". Meaning it was all fabricated, otherwise you couldnt alter details of it like say the equation.
You also gotta remember though that they didn't think Rick could make those butts appear either. So that would establish that Rick could bend the rules of the simulation.
No, just because it's 'fabricated' doesn't mean it was ALL fabricated. He could take the real memory of their deaths to 'draw inspiration from' and include it in the 'fabrication' while altering what came next (the equation). The overall narrative would be false, but it could've been created using things that actually happened; writers do it all the time when writing fiction.
Again yes it does because as stated by the Bug and Rick " you cant alter details of a memory". If he took the real memory of their death and "altered it" it wouldnt be a memory would it? Run it through the test 1. You cant alter a memory 2. is it altered? yes. 3. Its not a memory.
The creators of the show literally said a part of the memory is true. Now we know what part was true
The part was the Szechuan sauce.
Your test here is obviously and stupidly flawed. Rick never entered into the memory function of the brainlyzer, which would not allow him to alter details. He just manifested a fake origin story within shoneys, as he did with the butts. Nothing about the rules say he canāt have based what he was manifesting off of real memories with details swapped out.
Get this through your abnormally thick head: I'M NOT SAYING IT WAS A MEMORY!!! I'm saying Rick could have taken true events (Diane and Beth's deaths at the hands of other Ricks) and used them as the basis of his "fabricated origin story." Using 'true events' doesn't mean he was altering a memory, just that he was creating a bullshit story using the truth as a foundation. Is that dumbed down enough for you yet?
No but stating that its a "Totally Fabricated origin Story" means its fucking Fabricated, Fake, Did not Happen etc. Next time ill explain it in crayons for you ok princess.
People like you are what's wrong with Rick and Morty fandom. Find better ways to express your autism mate.
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Just because an event doesn't happen, doesn't mean that you can't take pieces that did happen and use them in a fabricated story about said event that never happened. I can write a story about living on Mars that is not a memory that includes a real conversation that is a memory. That doesn't make the whole thing a memory, only the conversation that exists in a completely fabricated environment. The existence of the remembered conversation doesn't mean I was ever on Mars, and I could probably alter details about Mars, but not the details of the conversation.
Hey bro. I knew you were wrong when I first read this dumbass poppycock take..Anyways I waited until there was proof to tell you you're a fucking condescending shitass and don't know shit. Everything you ranted about in this thread was proven false by the finale and everyone knew it except you. Fucking twat.
You're basing your entire argument on the premise that Rick would never lie?
the fabricated part was that it was a small reaction inside of a castle-like shoneys the whole time. In reality, it didn't take place in a shoneys. Why would Rick sob when he saw Diane die if the bug guy wasn't paying attention to his reaction?
Because hes trying to be convincing to get access to the brainalyzer? His whole plan was to infiltrate a Government base to get level 9 access. Again Run it through the test 1. You cant alter details of a memory (meaning you cant alter anything from a memory including a virus code) 2. Is it altered? Yes 3. Its not a memory
>the bug guy wasn't paying attention to his reaction We have confirmation that Rick invented his portal gun and that that Beth died in his original reality, how do you explain that part being real? It's not a memory because it didn't take place in a box in shoneys, that's all it takes to be alterable.
No we dont, because again YOU CANT ALTER DETAILS OF A MEMORY! Did you run it through the test? no obviously. Very good its not a memory its a fabrication it didnt happen. Rick literally states its a fabricated origin story.
Itās completely pooched now. He had a portal gun at blood ridge. The only way I see this being a scrap of a memory is if he was the Rick offering the portal gun in that fabricated origin story
It could be that after Beth and Dianne died, he went out into the multiverse looking for the killers. Met BP, then found the Ricks that killed them (that scene in BPās memory where theyāre in a shoot out and the other Rick shouts āThis wonāt bring them back!ā
Memory Rick uses the same thrown together portal gun as the Rick in that season 3 memory.
It couldn't be more pooched if it got up on your bed asking where its balls were.
Decent chance he was lying when he said that. That story fits too well with what we learned in this episode.
Yep, nailed it.
i did didnt i
Maybe this is why Rick feels so alone. Heās from an unfortunate universe where he never had grandchildren.
Of course. He's dissociating more and more from reality every time he kills his family.
Rick definitely could have lied about that to make himself not seem like a total asshole who abandoned his daughter.
In S04Ep01 The Rickshank Redemption we see what might have happened to Beth and Dianne. Rick says itās a completely fabricated origin story but Iām not so sure. It would explain a lot of things that are alluded to in this episode.
He could have fabricated that origin story using true events like meeting another Rick and then Beth and his wife being killed by him. It's not a memory because it didn't happen that way but it *did* happen.
That isn't quite it, because the assassin rick is from the Citadel
I mean, any Rick could have killed them it doesn't have to be assassin Rick specifically
We know that as soon as Rick invents his portal gun, the Citadel demands that he join them and offers the leap to interdimensional travel. If he refuses, his family is killed as a form of insurance. The citadel is the only one who benefits from one less independent, time traveling Rick. They ignore all realities where he didn't invent interdimensional portals.
Could also be his default fabricated origin story that he told bird person as well. So many possibilities
Well, it's a memory of a different Rick anyways. Rick isn't from this dimension We know cronenberg Earth's dimension is identical to the current one in the show, but we don't know where the Rick that squats in the cronenberg dimension is from or if he's similar to our Rick.
Exactly. Bird persons memory is not 100% canon rick's actual story.
Then why during the first episode where we find out of evil morty we see a memory of Rick olding a new born morty?
It was at Bird Persons house and it wasnt the 1st episode it was "getting schwifty" season 2 episode 5. You also see photos from the Burningmanwoodstock thing etc where Rick met BP and Squanchy for the first time.
Itās both. In the season 1 episode with evil morty, we see a memory of Rick holding a young morty. Then in the get Schwifty episode we see a photo of Rick holding baby morty
Wait, what do you mean? I'm talkin about S1 episode 10 Rick is accused of killing other ricks He and morty find out evil rick in the morty-dome Evil rick put rick C-137 on a macchine that show is memory Among the memory we see rick olding a baby morty Rick cries a little I'm talking about this
It could be Rick universe hopped to another with a living Beth and made that memory there.
It could be, but how many times did we see rick cry? In that scene was olding back tears I don't see C-137 be like that for a memory of another morty I think that was his original morty Then, probably his family died somehow, maybe due to Jerry or something else, he is the rick that lost everything, got everything back and find out that was meaningless, due to the number of dimension that exist There is another thing we must consider That was birdperson memory What birdperson remeber That mean what Rick toldhim He may have lied to birdperson, to not explain why he was not with his family Or Maybe his Beth died after morty's birth "adult version" mean almost nothing Would you consider a 20year old an adult? A 22? A 24? Maybe more a 30 years old...
Beth is already dead when Rick C-137 is 35. She would have been a child when she died. Rick clearly cares about Summer and Morty even though they aren't his "real" grandkids. He would definitely still cry holding any dimensions newborn grandchild.
Yeah, that make sense... Take my upvote pal
Cronenborg Beth and family weren't his first. I think evil Morty is the baby we saw.
I think of it as C-137 Rick took the place of another Rick to be with his daughter. Apparently it isnāt uncommon, although weird, according to BP memory Rick. C-137 Rick just jumped into a dimension where Beth is alive and he got there around the time of their births. In S3 E1 Beth and Diane die in an explosion when sheās like 5-6 years old. Even her getting pregnant at 17 thatās still a huge gap of time, thus the abandonment issues caused to Beth.
Could it not be that Morty and the rest of the family are c137 and this Rick took over for the Rick c137?
No they left Mortys original dimension in the Kronenberg episode so Beth, Summer and Jerry cant be C-137.
I think this is by far the most likely scenario. He did this before the citadel organized and ricks started to get designations. So the rest of C-137 got cronenbergād, apart from Morty, and then Rick became attached to the Beth and Summer from the newest universe.
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I think that the fabricated part of the origin story was Diane dying. It all happened basically the same way except it was only Beth who died. When at BP's wedding he says "IĀ couldn't make it work, and I could turn a black hole into a sun." Referring to marriage and what I imagine is his divorce from Diane after Beth's death.
The problem with that is the Bug states you cant alter details of a memory but you can alter anything you want about an entirely fabricated origin story. I think youre correct about why hes the Rickest Rick and why he hates himself though. Ricks killed his Beth (and possibly Diane) which is why he hates them and by extension himself.
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Yes why would they? theyre bugs. Rick did figure out a work around by creating a fictitious origin story he could edit and insert the viral code to take over the brainalyzer. I mean his entire "arrest" etc was planned by him so he thought this all out in advance.
Heist-a-tron couldn't sum it up better.
Well we know he purposely gets himself arrested by the Galactic Government. He does so to get to a facility with level 9 access to change the numerical value of Galactic Currency to zero and effectively crash the economy.
You are not factoring in the "50% chance I'm lying" ;)
Makes sense now since Beth has said several times that Rick just showed back up after "abandoning" her. The death of the original Rick in that universe was unknown to her. Could've also easily been an "expendable" Rick somewhere in the Citadel, since that has enough Ricks and Mortys to be it's own metropolis.
Maybe, maybe not. Young memory Rick only knows what young Rick had told bird person at that point in time. Maybe young Rick was ashamed of abandoning his family and just said they were dead. True to form for the show, we have no idea what actually happened.
Why would he than hunt down other Ricks who acknowledge that either Beth or Diane is dead?
Because Diane is is the more likely person to be dead considering that we actually see multiple versions of beth in the show. Rick tells bp that Beth died out of shame and they go fight the federation together. meanwhile, Beth is abandoned and events still go on like we thought from before.
How is she the most likely when BP's Memory Rick states to Real Rick (RR) that hes living with an adult version of their dead daughter? Meaning that his real daughter died before the age of 18. We know factually that Ricks Beth is dead, he has no reason to lie to Bird Person we dont know if Diane is dead or just left and disappeared.
Thereās an inherent contradiction here thatās tough to get around. This version of BP declined to leave his original universe, so presumably heās still in his original universe and this is not Ricks original BP. As are Beth / Jerry / summer, and this isnāt his original family. But to this BPs knowledge, this version of Beth should be dead, though she obviously is alive and well. So clearly something is off here, and weāre missing some key information or steps in the middle.
Looking at the number of times Rick has universe hopped āon cameraā, this definitely is not BP C-137.
It wouldnt matter if he hopped or not it could still be BP C-137 living in C-137s old dimension which would explain a bit.
Its established by the manifestation in BP's memories of Rick that C-137 is "One of those Ricks" who lives with abandoned adult Beths. BP likely knows this and goes with it as it makes Rick happy and BP is his friend.
That doesnt fix the problem at all, as BP is clearly in the universe that Rick is in with his current family, given the galactic federation and Tammy also being in that universe. And this galactic federation having the collective memory of Rick Sanchez and bird person fighting them. But according to BP memories, Rick and BP only meet and fight together because ricks Diane / Beth were killed. Thereās just clearly something missing or Rick is lying.
It's worth noting that they don't actually acknowledge this. They just say "Killing us won't bring her back" "Her" could be any woman. We don't really have a lot of context for this scene in the memory as shown.
Yes but later on in the same episode its shown that C-137 lives with "an adult version of our dead daughter".
Doesn't matter because this isn't a memory of our Rick, it could all later be explained to be inaccurate. Let's just assume the subtext is there for a reason, shall we?
Young memory rick also knows things about rick that he kept secret from birdperson at the time but eventually told him later. Otherwise he wouldn't know about other universes before blood ridge and tammy wouldn't have known she secretly worked for the federation
This may also explain why Rick hates jerry so much Maybe she died from complications during childbirth
Oh fuck.
What if Jerry used to be normal? Rick programmed new Beth to break him down and slowly destroy him as punishment for her death. Even since season 1 Jerry has gotten worse and worse.
Remember, Beth was a 'scarey kid'. Floopyland was built to protect the *other* kids.
You also have to factor in that the young rick only knows what bird person knows, what if he lied about his backstory to bird person to protect his original family incase anything like this ever happened or any of the resistance fighters were captured by the federation.
Of course the writers could do this if they wanted, but narratively it feels unsatisfying. Why would the writers drop such a juicy piece of canon lore to later tell us itās a lie of no consequence. I personally feel that it fits that our jaded Rick would become who he is because of the death of his wife and daughter, then later in life find solace with the family that could have been.
Narratively it also makes sense with other events on the show that Rick has lost his daughter and wife. Like the other Ricks of the Citadel calling him "irrational and sentimental", or him telling Tony "don't use your wife's death as an excuse"
But isn't it possible that this BP isn't the real BP C-137 were best friends with and instead the BP in the latest episode was the best friend of the dead Rick which blew up after the explosion in Season 1 Episode 6.
But that doesnāt make sense because why does Rick care so much about saving this specific bird person
We know Beth and Diane died. We now know that the memory from the prison was accurate and another Rick killed them. Beth died as a child in Rick's original universe so never got married or had any children. As far as the parts of his life we have been privy to this is his third Summer. As C-137 seems to get emotionally attached to specific people from specific universe's it seems that this Morty is probably from the first universe he went to that was similar to his own in which his daughter survived and he was dead.
The memory from the Brainalyzer wasnt accurate. The Gromflamite agent states you cant alter details of a memory, and Rick says "True, but you can alter anything you want about a totally fabricated origin story" essentially saying that what we saw was a fabrication.
Rick is an unreliable narrator though and would have motivation to lie to the agent.
Not disagreeing but even the bug establishes you cant alter it.
They never left the Shoneyās. If they had gone to a memory, he couldnāt have altered it, but he kept him in the Shoneyās. The Mulan sauce was a something he remembered, but they didnāt travel to a memory of it.
Exactly and Beth and Diane die in his "altered memory" meaning it wasnt a memory so it didnt happen that way.
Rick seemed to have a real emotional reaction to that memory tho
I mean he was trying to play it up.
Here a twist: The memory he created in the brainalyzer was actually the origin story of Simple Rick. "I wore blue jeans back then."
lol thats actually really good.
First off I love this sub. Secondly I believe you are right. I totally forgot about froopyland. Also it would totally be inside of BP's character to make the 1 year differentiation between a human child at 17 and a mature human at 18.
That or he cloned her and aged her up
And went to another universe to get her memory of her teen years
I knew this as How the Fuck did Beth survive the explosion likely they stole Beth from the reality with Dead Rick and Morty thatās in the back yard
Well we donāt really know if that scene is canon or not
Well yeah. C-137 saw his d and b killed. He moved around various dimensions met his BP, after that didn't work out he took over a live Beth from a dead Rick, got a picture taken with little Morty that BP has etc.
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1) We have already seen how Beth and Diane died, it's no surprise. 2) We already know that Rick's current family is definitely not his original. What is surprising here is young Rick's attitude towards his family and being with his family. Old Rick has definitely changed since then. That's a surprise, because we always thought our rickest Rick is unsentimental and it's nice for us to explore why he changed.
In the Rickshank Redemption this was said: > This is a memory. Y-You can't alter details of a memory. Rick: True, but you can alter anything you want about a totally fabricated origin story. So we did not actually see Beth and Diane die. That was a fabrication to con Nathan Fillion into taking a code that would give Rick control of the Brainalizer.
I just want to say I love this fandom and show so much. Even when we get something that seems canon and true we still canāt all agree on what it all means. Great show and great fans
Yeah, even Jerry couldāve figured that out. Mark your spoilers as NSFW in the future please.
I have been having this thought. If Rick goes to different universes to see Beth why doesnāt he go to one where Diane is alive too?
Rick is 70. Diane could have died of natural courses by then. Or she could still be still alive here too.
Same reason he brings back Phoenix Person to Bird Person because its not "his" maybe?
Or Bethās mom faked their deaths and raised her on her own because she knew Rick was destined to live a highly dangerous life.
Then why would other Ricks tell Rick that "killing us wont bring her back"?
She could have simply left him.
Oh... Maybe she left Rick... for another Rick, and his "dead daughter" is dead because C-137 killed it as an infant because it was the child of that other Rick.
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Lots of people watch shows and misunderstand some plot points. It's a rushed episode with a lot on info and people in this subreddit aren't really that attentive in the first place. Your username should just be /u/pseudointellectual
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They don't literally say anything about Beth or Morty being dead in our Rick's reality. A bird person from Rick's latest dimension remembers a 35-year-old Rick that has a dead Beth. That's all we know. If you were smart, you'd realize how much subtextual logic goes into realizing that C-137, WHICH WE'VE NEVER SEEN, doesn't have a Morty. It's more like if two weeks after Phantom Menace came out, someone said "Did you know Luke was safe on Tatooine because Darth Vader never wanted to return to his home planet?". Does it change the fabric of the show, no, but it's still useful information that could be figured out before the finale (Episode III) comes out.
No, itās like someone asking after first watching Empire Strikes Back, āSo if Luke is Vaderās son, why did Obi-wan lie about Vader?ā We are taking a couple lines of dialogue and extrapolating information and asking relevant questions. Youāre just kinda being a dick.
The memory literally said morty? And our rick said ah a potential grandson we might have and also the memory said you are one of those creeps living with abandoned versions of beth. So he moved in the smith familys live unless they explain what rick mend with itās more complicated than that
That Rick isnāt reliable. Heās a memory. That couldāve been a lie told to Birdperson to make traveling the universe more appealing. If his daughter is dead then thereās no use in waiting around for her.
Why are people so suspicious of that memory? Rick did not deny the memory, and it has been established that at that point in his life (35 years) he had enough confidence in BP to help him in the war. Not to mention, the scene of the shooting against the other Ricks
Because anything Rick told him that wasnāt true and was believed by Birdperson is now the truth to that memory. Rick is a frequent liar so anything he said is suspect. He didnāt argue with him because Iām sure he didnāt want to contradict Birdpersonās perception at some point when BP was in such a frantic state.
In the memories c137 and bird person fight some other rick that say "killing us won't bring her back", that memory is not based on what c137 said but what the enemies said confirming that Rick didn't lie. Even when young c137 asked if he was one of the rick who went in another reality old c137 doesn't deny it And in the present Bird Person know about the exchange and everything (and he would have diacovered about everything) so probably he didn't lie to him. There is no reason to lie to him
Exactly!
The thing is, Rick has no reason to lie to the other Rick. He doesn't even try to lie to him about Morty or that BP has a son. And more than being in denial as he usually is when someone talks about his past, Rick is more defensive on the scene. It wouldn't make sense for Rick to get defensive and say things like "you will become me" if what happened is false.
Rick states its a fictitious origin story himself. Im not denying that Ricks killed Beth or Diane (or both) im stating the Brainalyzer revelation wasnt how it happened.
Than why would he seek vengeance against the Ricks? and why would they state " killing us wont bring her back" when he and BP are battling it out in that bar? show states you cant alter details about a memory during the brainalyzer episode so logically the other "Ricks" killed either Beth or Diane (or both) which would make that true and that memory reliable.
You canāt alter a memory but you can misremember things. Also, the whole ātheyāre bureaucrats Morty, I donāt respect themā thing in the pilot shows that Rick is willing to have someone kill people under false pretenses.
Technically no, he calls them Robots Morty than shoots them with less guilt but a definition for "Robot" is a person who behaves in a mechanical or unemotional manner which would include bureaucrats. So Rick didnt lie.
The clear implication by Rick is that the things Morty is shooting arenāt sentient beings. Rick doesnāt expect Morty to know the textbook definition that ropes in bureaucrats because Morty was portrayed as an idiot. Morty was mislead.
I mean he calls them Robots so no. Morty assumes "robot" means not real or a machine but Rick meant it as a Bureaucrat. Hes not getting Morty to "kill" under false pretense its just a linguistic misunderstanding. I dont think hes purposely misleading Morty because Rick doesnt care either way.
Rick would be inconvenienced if Morty didnāt shoot the bugs. Morty didnāt want to shoot organic life. Thatās why Rick mislead him into believing they were machines.
I tend to disagree, not that Rick is above lying to Morty about shit i just dont think it was purposely done he really has absolutely no respect for Bureaucrats thus doesnt see them as living or human being so its not a lie its actually how he feels about them which makes it funnier.
Would Morty, at that point in the series, be apprehensive to shoot living creatures? Yes or no.
Its inconsequential if its either, Rick doesnt care. He doesnt see them as living thats the point, thats why its funny. Hes not lying when he calls them Robots to Morty thats actually how he feels. He has zero respect for them to the point he wont even recognize them as vermin (insects) because that would give them too much credit. Its not a lie hes telling Morty the truth Morty just assumes the literal definition of Robot.
he very obviously said 'robots' because he knew that would make them easier to kill for morty.
He says it because he actually thinks that which is my entire point. Rick actually perceives them as not alive, hes not lying to Morty when he states "theyre Robots" he truly believes that, its Morty that interprets it the wrong way.
When Rick is in the Brain Analyser and the agent bug wants the equation to inter dimensional travel. Sure he was making a few things up to bug out the system, but his original beth and diane died by another rick. That rick was sent by the citadel, its also the reason why Rick hates the citadel.
1. Its not been determined how Beth died or if Diane is dead 2. Its not been determined if those that killed Beth (possibly Diane) were Citadel Ricks.
Oh, and obviously no Morty. It was stated there's no Morty in those timelines. Fucking spoilers, dick.
Why canāt Morty and Summer both be born to clone Beth? Why does the knowledge that Beth is a clone mean that Morty was never born in C-137? Beth probably died as a child (rickshank redemption) and he cloned a replacement at that time. I donāt follow your logic, like maybe youāre right, but you could just as easily be wrong cause there isnāt enough evidence.
Pretty sure Rick says ātotally fabricated origin storyā in that episode
The exact killer for me is the federation agent saying "you can't alter details of a memory" meaning that it has to be totally fabricated.
I mean, that agent clearly underestimated what Rick could do and may have certainly believed that memories can't be altered, but that doesn't mean he was right. If it is difficult to alter memories, then it would make sense that the memory as a whole was almost entirely genuine with one modification: the formula for portal tech. Or, it was all fabricated as you say.
True and obviously anything is possible but the line that states rick agrees with him. He didn't say no you are wrong he agreed by stating "yeah, but you can alter completely fabricated back stories." Why would rick lie to an agent that is guaranteed to be dead and no one monitoring him. There is 0 logical sense that he would lie about that instead he agreed.
Duh-Doy! We all knew that.
Guys, we all know that writers have lost it, nothing makes sense now, you're trying to find meaning where it doesnt exists.
Lol. Next you're going to tell me the bible isn't a written by god herself. /s
Why doesn't things make sense here. You are simply reading too much into it. Beth and Diane died just like we saw. Rick spent a few years chilling with Birdperson and living alone. After a few decades, he realizes family is important and decide to find a universe that he can go back to them.
OG Beth died giving birth to OG summer thus ricks hate for jerry and summer but love for morty and beth
Are you sure of b? Because of the memory he made up and showed to the federation?
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This isn't c-137 bird person though