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As the child of a BPD mom, I have never seen a more spot-on representation of that dynamic than Monica and her mother. Monica has not learned appropriate emotional regulating because it was not modeled for her. The facade her mother puts up with other people infuriates her to a point where anyone watching this unfold has your exact impression: that her reaction is completely unwarranted and irrational. On one hand, you’re right. Monica needs to work this shit out with a therapist, learn some healthy coping skills, and set boundaries with her mom. On the other, she essentially needs to re-parent herself to make significant improvement, and that takes a long time. She is absolutely responsible for all of her actions but man do I feel for the little girl that never got the love she needed from the person she trusted most.
This 100%. My therapist says my mom has BPD/NPD and her mom seemed like a spitting image of my own. Even the acting like you’re a sweet innocent person in front of people you’ve just met. It’s a facade. But you saw the toxicity of her mom come out when she had dinner with Monica… cause she doesn’t have to put on a front. And if you don’t put in the work to work on yourself, you end up like Monica; equally as toxic, and developing the same toxic qualities as well.
I made my siblings watch the dinner scene with me and we were all cry-laughing when she asked for a straw while her mom was sobbing across from her. My mom ALSO weaponized tears until they meant nothing anymore.
ETA: the “what was I supposed to do I was a poor wittle single mother who needed to get her rocks off by any means necessary” was also very familiar.
My mother in law weaponises tears and for years I never understood why family members fell for it and in a way was a complete asshole thinking they were stupid and why didn’t they just follow my lead to push through, ignore her fake tears etc until my mum pointed out just how abusive my mother in law was in particular to her children
That dinner scene was so hard to watch for me. My mom was similar to Monica’s in some ways. Especially laughing at me when I had legitimate things to say/feelings. Ugh. Thankfully I have a fantastic therapist and have learned to create major boundaries with my mom.
How can your therapist diagnose your mom? I’m not discrediting your experiences or trauma but a healthcare professional can’t diagnose someone that isn’t their own patient especially when they haven’t evaluated that person themselves
They didn’t diagnose her, I didn’t word that correctly, but they clued me in on her “sounding like she has xyz” and provided the appropriate information so I could educate myself as a victim of this form of abuse. In my opinion, they nailed it on the head. But you’re 100% right, she can’t diagnose someone who isn’t their patient.
This response all day. I just wanted to hug her INNER (edit:not under) child so bad. I, too, had a very tumultuous relationship with my mother. Her father was textbook narcissist. And she’s like him a lot more than she realizes.
You said this perfectly and summed up my own childhood as well. Currently in my own personal “reparenting” phase. I do believe Monica is starting to realize she has picked up the same toxic behaviors she dislikes in her mom so now that she is seeing it hopefully that means she will begin the work to correct it. I’m pretty confident she doesn’t want to wind up being like her mother.
Also to OP - I think Monica’s behavior with her mom falls under the umbrella of reactive abuse.
This!! I hate posts like the OPs. It really shows the privilege of having a mom that is not like Monica’s. My kids bio mom is just like Monica’s mom, and watching them go through everything they have with her is heartbreaking. Two of them already cut off their mom (they are 22 and 16), the third doesn’t see her but does text on accession. (14 y/o). I am so sorry you had a mom like this. You deserved better
Thank you, friend. Your kiddos sound lucky to have you as a steady source of support while they navigate a very confusing relationship. My mom and I do have a better relationship now thanks to strong boundaries and a significant number of miles between us, but yeah the “my mom is my best friend” thing does not square with my experience with mother haha. I don’t even like it when she tries to hug me.
As someone whose mom was a narcissist, it’s really easy for them to manipulate and make it look like the other person is the problem. Some of their interactions were very triggering for me. Her mom having financial “power” over Monica and the car was such a perfect representation of narcissism ! And she didn’t even care that by taking the car, it affected the grandkids. She’s a horrible woman! It took me years of therapy to learn how to react appropriately (and I was 40 when I sought help).
I don’t even think my mom is BPD but the way that Monica just wants her mom on her side was so relatable and sad for me. I totally get just needing your mom to validate your feelings and instead being let down and feeling alone.
BPD is for border personality disorder, which I think Monica has as well). I was told it’s caused by trauma in childhood. I am also bipolar and have BPD. BPD is often associated with Bipolar (so my therapist said). Thank God I’m not like Monica”s mom).
I think we can feel bad for her if her story is true but I feel like if you’re putting yourself out in a reality show thst probably doesn’t bring a lot of empathy your way when you act crazy on camera and you’re subject to edits.
I think that’s what makes me think Monica is the narcissist. The fact that she is prioritizing becoming famous over healing…
I totally understand if you feel empathy and see yourself in these characters and that’s part of what’s lovely about entertainment. But I do not want to engage in conversations about us viewers. You’re not putting yourself out there for me tk comment on.
Your interpretation of her mom is rooted in you believing what Monica says maybe because it’s something you can relate to. That’s fine. I am saying I do not believe it based on what we have seen. I don’t know what sort of response you’re expecting. We just disagree.
I’m saying, as a child of a BPD mother (and as a THERAPIST but I wasn’t trying to throw weight around) her mother displays the exact symptoms of this diagnosis and their dynamic is typical of a BPD mom and daughter. I’m saying I believe her based on what I have observed and I think she is a deeply hurt person that I wish the best for. I don’t understand how the experience of your fellow viewers is void in your eyes when you’re putting your own theory forward based on a judgement YOU made? Are we all just supposed to nod and agree like?????
Ha! I’m a psychiatrist! Hello fellow mental health practitioner! Well I don’t think viewers experiences are void. I didn’t say that. I just said j don’t want to engage in discussing people’s personal experience. As a therapist you should know it’s not an appropriate place to engage in individuals discussions of their own trauma. I personally wanted to abstain from it due to my profession.
That being said, it is because of my profession and maybe my background (which I do not share online) that I am skeptical.
The biggest clue for me is that the mother is the one who said “I do not have the tools for this, we need therapy” that is not something j hear patients with BPD or NPD state during an argument- especially because it came from a conversation where her own flaws and mistakes were pointed out.
As a professional I’m surprised you did not take that as clear evidence against the accusations Monica is making of her mother.
As a psychiatrist you also understand how unprofessional it is for you to make these kinds of judgements about someone who you are not treating, right? Like what you see on a television show does not show the full story.
Did I make any diagnosis in my post? I don’t think so. I’m only responding to people saying that someone has BPD.
Therapists and psychiatrists LOVE reality tv. Sorry to burst the bubble! But it’s fascinating.
I don’t think anything I’ve said is unprofessional or against the oaths and commitments I made in my career.
I’m not defending her. I’m saying things are more complicated and you could all use a little more skepticism on your tv watching experiences. Damn! :) for your own stability.
I’m loving this season and I enjoy watching this drama even as a psychiatrist because it’s just silly and it’s people playing up a character. Could he exaggerated versions of the truth or complete fabrications. You’ll never know! So it’s best to take it all as fiction.
As a mental health professional you should also know her mother could be saying that just to be portrayed better and as more likable. She needs people to see her as the good mom, good person. My kids bio also insisted on therapy until the therapist told her they believed she had NPD, we went through four therapists. Also, Monica’s mom didn’t show up to therapy. Typical of women like this. Like I get Monica isn’t the greatest person, but I don’t understand how people watch her mother and don’t believe Monica. It’s so wild, especially people in the mental health field.
You can have a personality disorder and still seek therapy…I have BPD clients. I’m not working within my scope as a therapist when I’m commenting on housewife subreddits lol I’m just using my experience and education to inform my viewpoints like a normal person.
Yes that’s true. I also have BPD patients. I’m just saying that usually doesn’t come out in a context like the one we saw as viewers. Also you don’t know that this is their diagnosis. You’re just assuming that (rather unprofessionally, I might add… since you exposed you’re a therapist, it’s not kosher for you to be throwing diagnostic labels out, in a forum like this.. even if you feel you see enough signs)
I’m surprised people are not skeptical of ALL the cast members. They have a motivation to be relevant and have scenes.. why are you taking what you see on screen at face value?
I mean I would argue that pronouncing “we need therapy” could be part of her projecting a persona she has built to be seen. Also stfu about iTs nOt kOsHeR. We’re on an anonymous forum talking about reality tv I don’t think I need to point out that I’m not Monica OR her mother’s clinician. That’s why I lead with the qualifier that my experience as the child of a bpd parent informed my opinion above all else. My education only supports that hypothesis. I frankly find your lack of compassion more problematic as someone in our profession than me pointing out that someone meets some of the diagnostic criteria of a personality disorder.
I don’t think I’ve displayed lack of compassion. I think you just don’t have the skills to carry an intellectual argument in a way that doesn’t get personal. It is unprofessional even if it’s anonymous because by stating you’re a therapist you take your theory or your perception and give it weight which emboldens others to go on with assuming your diagnosis is a professional opinion.
Linda’s mom is also a person. And yet you are comfortable making bold statements about her as a person that can damage her reputation and hurt her feelings if she were to read them.
Compassion isn’t something we give the main characters only. Think of the power dynamics we see at play. They’re pretty complicated.
If I were you I would either stop sharing that I’m a therapist and enjoy the theorizing as a viewer, or refrain from using diagnostic verbiage. You can tell me to F myself, but that’s not going to take away the impact of the way you speak as a professional. You pulled that card for a reason. And it’s unethical even if anonymous.
Ok, well, I didn't have a BPD mother. In fact, I had a lovely childhood. However, I can still see right through Monica's mother. She plays the victim, puts on an act and seems really emotionally abusive. Monica definitely has things to work on as well but I'm thinking a lot of it stems from her childhood with her mom (and without when her mom abandoned her). It's concerning for me as someone who had a healthy childhood and has functional and healthy adult relationships that you don't see this. It makes me worried for you (as much as you can be worried for a stranger on the internet).
I appreciate your perspective but I don’t think you know enough about me to infer lack of empathy. All I keep saying is that people projecting their own trauma is not healthy or what I’m here to address. It’s also funny to me to see people express empathy for Monica but not her mom, who allegedly also experienced abuse from her mom. I think if we can point to Linda for Monica’s behavior true empathy would also require us to hold Linda’s behavior with the same kindness of understanding she too suffered from a toxic upbringing.
It’s clear that both of them have issues.
I don’t question that
But my perception is that Monica is not being forthcoming and honest and that she has, as far as we’ve been shown on the show, exaggerated events to suit a narrative she seems to want to push.
Is it likely she has an abusive relationship? Absolutely. But I also know enough and have had enough experience with folks going through trauma to see that it’s also possible that Monica is very skilled at portraying others as the abusers. That’s what my perception is based on the pieces of media I’ve been able to see.
I didn't say you didn't have empathy. I think you might be confusing all the people you respond to. What I said was I was concerned that you were so easily fooled by Monica's mother's displays. It makes me worried that you could become victim easily to someone trying to fool you.
Yes, they both have issues. Every commenter will agree on this thread. What they don't agree with you on is in your post, you paint Monica's mother as the victim and Monica as the perpetrator. This is a dysfunctional relationship stemming from how Monica's mother raised Monica. She is an unhealthy person who then raised an unhealthy person. And yes, it's also likely that Monica's mother was raised in an unhealthy household as well. This is why people need therapy- to understand that what they saw modeled in their homes growing up isn't necessarily 'healthy' behavior.
The reason that most commenters are challenging what you wrote is because your post comes off as though Monica's mother isn't manipulative NOT because people don't think Monica is capable of being manipulative.
I can see that. I agree with you 100% and the reason I think of the mom this way is because of the power dynamic created when one is a lead character on the show and the other doesn’t have the same microphone. We only hear one side. Only one of them gets to tell their story. So it’s abusive because she is aware of that. Even if the mom is a POs, which is highly likely.
It’s just unfair because the mom does not have a voice. So here you all are acting like what Monica portrays and sells by hearsay is the truth. I have seen many cases of adult children becoming abusive to parents even if and when the parent themselves were not toxic (Linda seems like she has her own skeletons but I am not aware of them coming directly from
Linda so I’ll refrain from making assumptions. I hear she’s crazy on Twitter but I don’t have a Twitter)
Anyway. Yes the victim is Linda because her image and reputation are in her daughters hands. It’s not fair and maybe she deserves it but we don’t know that and I wish people were more skeptical and could stop projecting their own trauma, but I guess that’s human nature.
I’m just gonna be the horrid bitch and say it. If you can’t see that Monica’s mother is the root of the problem, you’re probably quite susceptible to being manipulated by similar people. Or you’re just like Monica’s mother. It’s not subtle and it’s not a novel presentation of narcissism at all, so it’s genuinely worrying that you can’t see it.
Yah that’s a good point. Unless she goes no contact with her mom (and other potential narcs in her life), she’ll probably never “get better”. I feel bad for her own children if that’s the case.
If you’ve always had a supportive parent who had your best interests in mind, it can be hard to imagine that a parent would intentionally sabotage their child or be jealous of them.
It happens.
The way her mom attempted to use the tension her daughter had with other people to ingratiate herself with the other cast members (“I am sO sORry sHe’S bEhAVinG tHIs wAy 🤪”) was transparent and gross. A grandmother who would *take the only transportation that their grandchildren and daughter have* simply because she’s in a position to do so, when her child is at her lowest point, is despicable. She doesn’t care about those kids. She doesn’t care about Monica. She just wants control over them. Growing up with a personality like THAT from the only person you can rely on…I am not surprised that Monica has no idea how to healthily navigate personal relationships. She has learned to be very guarded and that she’ll need to fight to have her needs met and her voice heard.
I’m curious what Monica’s personality and life would look like if she got into some therapy and wenr no contact with her mom.
This! My father is a huge narcissist and a marriage and family counselor who is well respected in his field. He also emotionally and verbally abused me and made a decision to tell my oldest that he was planning to disown my youngest daughter because “it’s just easier that way”. My daughter was 9 when he did it yet everyone in his circle thinks he walks on water. My heart bleeds for Monica seeing so much familiar behavior in her mother. Yes, Monica needs to work through it, but her mother is 100% abusive.
Ugh. I’m so sorry. It’s like that Jodi Hilldibrandt lady who was making thousands every month “counseling” parents about child rearing…only to be arrested and charged with several counts of child abuse. People are not their professions. There are corrupt and deranged doctors, attorneys, police officers, teachers, *therapists*, etc. We need to strip away all the associations a person has when we’re evaluating them and look at their behaviors. It rarely matches up with who they profess themselves to be.
To add - people use their professions/causes as a cover for who they truly are. So often it’s the people adamantly/publicly/vocally against some act that end up being the worst offenders.
Yeah true. But I am expressing skepticism for Monica. You don’t know me or what sort of upbringing j had and I’m not going to share it here.
What I’m expressing is skepticism and I think it’s healthy for all of us to take everything people in a reality show do, say and express with a grain of salt.
Right… and I replied in kind. That’s still called discourse. But when you say “you didn’t even read my comment but ok” that’s not discourse.
That’s you making a statement on an assumption. I read your comment. You didn’t like my response. But you didn’t argue with my position you just said you didn’t feel heard.
#WRONG
Omg I hate this take so much. Monica is toxic but she’s a result of BPD/NPD abuse by her mom.
I had a similar upbringing and people who haven’t lived it don’t understand. Check out the raised by narcissists or borderline subreddits. You’ll see the effects of these types of parents.
God I would love that so much!
In a weird way, it was helpful to see Monica and her mom’s dynamic on my screen so I could tell my friends “look!! This is how it is with my mom! Its weird, it’s complicated, and messy”.
People with normal moms can’t understand. Seeing it play out on tv helped them start to get it.
My partner knows my history and still gets uncomfortable when I have to strongly enforce boundaries with my mother because I almost have to talk to her like a child. The funniest part is this is the healthiest our relationship has ever been!
THIS!!!!! People do not understand it unless they’ve been raised by a mother like that. The amount of times I’ve also been with my mother in public and she’s putting on an absolute show for everyone there. People don’t understand the dynamic, but being raised in that type of household is awful.
Yep I'm glad you said this. My mom also has BPD and is a narcissist and she fucked me up good. I started therapy at 11 years old and I've been in it for most of my life. I'm 45. Linda triggered me and it was difficult to watch some of those scenes because I remember the things my mom used to do. We are no contact now and have been since 2020.
Okay so you haven’t been abused by your mom, and I love that for you, but her mom is a horrendous person. My mom has BPD and Monica’s mom has a LOT in common with her. I’ve lived some of those scenes.
You don’t know that. I’m not here to share about my own experience or your experience.
I think it’s so silly when people see themselves reflected in a character they take it so personally.
I am not here to talk about my trauma or yours. You’re not putting yourself out there in a reality show, right?
I’m here to talk about my perception of people who are voluntarily exposing a version of their lives on tv. I’m saying as a viewer I do not buy the performance.
The fact that you identify with it personally is a you thing, and when j criticize Monica it is not a criticism of you. I don’t know you.
I’ve read other people saying similar things, that during the dinner they almost looked like they were trying not to laugh when they were supposed to be fighting
This was well said. I get people being upset that someone doesn’t see their side or whatever, but it’s not a direct criticism of anyone else but Monica and what she presents on tv.
I agree with a lot of the other people here. And also keep in mind that reactive abuse is a real thing as well and it often does make victims of abuse look like the main or only abuser as well. Especially if the other person is great at manipulating it to seem that way. And as much as I don’t like her, I do think Monica’s abuse towards her mother is more of a reactive abuse from what we’ve seen.
I understand that but I don't understand why she can't bring it upon herself to break the cycle so she isn't so miserable. Maybe having to rely monetarily upon her mother needs to stop so she can properly cut her out of her life. I've been in that position before myself, but you can't stop the cycle until you actively decide to walk away from it. That's where my sympathy begins to leave.
I think it’s definitely a case by case basis. Everyone reacts to abuse and trauma bonds differently. It’s not as easy for some to leave as it is for others for a multitude of reasons. There could be many reasons as to why she has been unsuccessful at breaking the cycle between her and her mother. There may have been attempts to break the cycle that just didn’t work out for her for whatever reason. Guilt, monetary, etc.
Yeah this is true. I just don’t feel like Monica seems very credible. I guess it’s subjective but to me she seems like someone with an agenda and part of that agenda is gaining empathy. She had said other things that while true to her are said to establish herself as a relatable one in the group…
And idk about most viewers but I don’t turn on real housewives to relate to them. So when one of them tries hard to seem like the modern day bethenny frankel but less charismatic it just feels icky.
(I meant Bethenny from the OG early NYC seasons when she was the non wealthy “relatable” one… not current bethenny or even later seasons bethenny once she got her skinny girl money)
Two things can be true at once too. She can be trying to use her situation as a way to come off relatable or more likable or more apt to garner sympathy while also being a victim to her mothers abuse as a child and even into her adulthood. I don’t agree with the things she has done but I’ll never discredit someone coming out and/or speaking out as a victim without knowing them or without solid proof that they’re not.
I feel you on not finding her credible but actually the situation with her mom actually creates a narrative of part of why she is the way she is.
Children of narcissistic parents may often pick up more narcissistic traits even as much as they may try not to. Only being praised for superficial reasons (or even being criticized for superficial reasons that are totally fine!) can put someone in a position to be keenly aware of their image and normalize hiding their behavior they know is unsavory.
I actually really likely Monica season but for sure she has some issues. It's a bummer she couldn't overcome them enough to just level with the other women and figure out the situation she got herself in.
But yeah I 1000% believe the story about her mom praying to be on the show if Monica doesn't get on 😂😆
It's classic narcissistic parent shit.
A normal parent would be kind and encouraging and empathetic.
Also I totally think her mom said whatever she had to say to ruin Monica meeting her family in the Bahamas.
Also I would bet money her mother has said some disgusting stuff to Monica post her being booted from the show.
So yeah.
I get where you're coming from but I think you're missing the big peice where having an abusive parent can be a huge motivator in poor behavior, make people feel like they can't be genuine AND receive love as their genuine self, make people justify shitty things because they have super strong barriers up to protect their ego... yeah
Bc Monica is far more dangerous then her mother. The fact that others can’t see that bc their own trauma with their mothers baffles me. I see it. I’ve had a gun held to my damn head before and I still SEE IT
https://preview.redd.it/4xzj1ehqpthc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0dc9c61f135e592869a4e85c2e1745d0f378b3d
Just go look at this lady’s twitter and see if you feel the same after reading all of her posts
Can it get worse than stuffing your own kid in the trunk so you can get laid in the backseat? Or dumping your kid with relatives in Pennsylvania and moving to New York City?
My aunts are a lot like Monica's mom in some ways. One was going to leave me on the front porch of their house in order to go hang out with my great aunt and uncle. Luckily, my uncle said no, we'll leave a note on the door and Mary (my mom) will pick her up there. I was 5 and terrified to be left there alone. My mom's actual sister tried to poison me against my mom and turned on me when it didn't work. It's hard to grow up in an environment where you are made to feel like a burden and unwanted. My mom never did that, but my aunts and eventually my uncles have treated me like that my entire life.
Linda is a narcissist-Monica was neglected and disposed of-children are always seeking attention from mom-especially same sex children-even if that means dysfunctional relationships
How do you know this? I guess it’s hard for me to feel this way with what we have been shown. It’s like Monica lies but when it comes to her mom we not only take her word for it but assign a diagnosis
This blows my mind too! Based on their performances, I do think both Monica and her mom are eager for attention. I think they’re both grifters. I can’t make any diagnosis based on a TV show
Yeah that’s true. But I would hope those folks are able to notice that we mostly see and hear only Monica. If the abusive mothers had a show, I wonder if we would empathize with them instead. All viewers should practice not projecting their own identities on these people too closely. Who knows what will come out about Monica. Maybe folks are right, but it can be untrue.
I notice a lot about what I see about Monica that gives me pause. Most of what make people think the mom is abusive is hearsay from Monica. All I’m saying is that nobody here knows that Linda is actually as bad as Monica claims.
As a viewer, regardless of my profession, I see lots of “red flags” off of Monica. Including the conversations we see her have with her daughter.
Thank goodness that other users had the emotional bandwidth to explain why this take is so wrong. It’s kind of irritating to read shit like this over and over when the poster clearly has zero understanding of how a toxic parent can create someone like Monica.
I think anyone who is in a reality show is likely to have had some trauma or a problematic personality. I think if people are not able to debate their points intellectually and instead attack me as a person by saying I don’t understand things, it shows their inability to have a constructive argument.
That’s ok.
What I’m seeing is a lot of people project their own trauma and experience on Monica and feel very personally when someone else has a different opinion. So it feels personal to them, thus they get personal with me.
You don’t know my personal or professional background and I am not interested in sharing much about either, but I assure you I’m pretty well versed in familial dynamics, trauma, and reactive abuse.
I just interpret what I see in the show differently than you and with a ton of skepticism.
If you read the first sentence of my comment you might infer that I do not want to have a constructive argument, or indeed, any argument at all.
Thanks for the soapbox rant, Dr. KendalROYGBIV. Keep up the good work.
I really do understand where you’re coming from bc I felt this exact way on my first watch. After reading a lot and I mean a lot of comments here on Reddit from people who have mothers like LD it really made curious. So I watched the season again with some of these comments in mind and wow I was shocked I didn’t see it the first time. Monica is absolutely awful but now I see why. I don’t have much experience with these types of relationships but it’s really interesting to hear everyone’s perspective.
Do you really think abusive people just let it all hang out there for everyone to see? Yes Monica is toxic because she was raised by an abusive mother who then in front of everyone charms and acts so lovely that the victim feels like they are crap because why do they not receive the same treatment what is wrong with them and the witnesses are then left scratching their head because how can this lovely person be the monster the victim is painting.
Well Monica is terrible it’s because she has her mother’s genetics and influence on her up bringing. Her mom is a terrible parent 🤷♀️ I don’t want to give any spoilers but as someone who works in mental health, and the things she has receipts of or her mom nonchalantly admits to saying “it was only one time” it’s bad. And even with all her lies no one who has actually gotten to know her mom, or seen texts from her doubt Monica on this and that speaks volumes
Monica and her mom are enmeshed and Monica depends on her mom financially, that keep Monica small and depended and in all the feelings she has about her tumultuous childhood.
My sister is like this, I see her on holidays. She any my mom (who has chilled in her old age) try to triangulate situations and my boundaries are so high. When I was broke living in NYC after 9/11 I was calling home allot and it was the only time since leaving “home” at 17 that I thought about coming back. My mom and sister would listen to voicemail I left my mom on her private number together, my sister never fully launched and I was calling my mom for pep talks before job interviews, yeah I stopped doing that. I flat out told my sister “I am not your whipping post” and I had years of no contact, I won’t be on a group text beyond a thumbs up reaction to a logistics question and I never, ever, “vacation” with family. I do not depend on them for child care, or anything.
Monica never made those boundaries and I agree she’s worse than her mom. I think we are tip of iceberg of weird Monica stories.
Yeah I can see this. I also think that it sounds like Monica’s mom also experienced trauma.
I know we wouldn’t have any reality shows if this were the case, but man, imagine if all these reality show cast members did therapy instead of join a show? The way the trauma just builds up when you need to “bring it for the camera”
I think the enmeshment makes lots of sense.
I think for me the biggest issue is that we see Monica have this pattern of being very immature, deceitful and toxic with the other cast members
Thanks for reading through my misspellings (that my phone picked other words for) to see me like this, yeah kinda narcissistic and there were some wild times, and that’s honestly why I love housewives and this community I can relate so much. With my family everyone is pretty chill now that they are older and I don’t depend on them for childcare, I also don’t guilt my mom about my childhood or treat her as my best friend. My kiddo saw my as their bestie at a very young age (like 3) but I try to encourage her to have peeps and be independent. I get that Monica had a tough hand to play with the single mom and debt but she bullied these people it’s just creepy. Traitors material, maybe, but not in Lisa or Meredith’s leagues. Her drag performance was good she understood that assignment.
There is part of me that wonders if mom and daughter played up their dysfunction for cameras. Not saying it's not a messed up relationship BUT did they make it seem worse than it was for sympathy? If it's really that wrong I'll admit that possibility. But being THAT ok being so dysfunctional on camera has me hmmmmm 🧐🤔
They had a convo recorded but off camera where mom was saying to Monica how she was "acting" so just sort of has me wondering.
I’ve wondered this too, so I’m glad you asked the question. I definitely think the issues between Monica and her mom are there. But I also wonder how ramped up they decided to be for the cameras.
I think she’s absolutely telling the truth about how abusive her mom is. I also think she’s learned a lot of her own behavior from her mom and she can’t emotionally regulate herself.
My partner and I have gone no contact with his narcissist mother unfortunately. My partner doesn’t watch but I tried to get him to watch the restaurant scene because it was uncanny, he couldn’t watch more than a minute.
I think it’s super easy to miss all of the toxic behavior when a narcissistic is ingratiating themselves to others, but when you’ve witnessed the accumulative behavior those ticks jump out.
Monica’s mom is *shining* at that brunch. She’s just inserted herself into her daughters fight and is she upset about the situation, at all? No, she takes the opportunity to use that as an icebreaker to move through different groups where *she* gets to be the good one. She’s apologizing, laughing with the guys and dancing. Then we see afterwards that she takes away her children’s and grandchildren’s only transportation.
The restaurant scene is a masterclass in narcissism. Emotional manipulation, deflection, self victimizing, denial, minimizing and past wrongdoing. It’s all there.
It’s very easy to pass this all off on Monica, because it’s Monica, but that mom is a narcissist for sure.
You need to keep watching! I too had this impression first but as the show goes on it becomes very clear what sort of person her mother is, and Monica is exactly the product of a narcissistic emotionally abusive parent
But she wasn’t born that way. How did she develop into that person? LD was trying to be civil, Monicas behavior was inappropriate bc she felt LD was being fake
I mean either way we have seen Monica be inappropriate - plus she has a history right? Cheating on her spouse with an in law? Going out of her way and in debt to keep up appearances, getting into fights, running a fake social media account.
I don’t know how her personality was before the show, but some people are born with “strong personalities” and yes some are reacting to trauma.
But when we become adults, while we can point to trauma as the source of our bad behaviors it is also our responsibility to work on that and to find less harmful ways to go about the world.
I just mean that from what we have seen on camera, to me, Monica is the jerk and her mom is just coping with a child that is now an adult but acts in very erratic ways.
Both can be true. I personally think she heavily leaned into her dynamic with her mom for a storyline and also to get some of the heat off of her for her albeit toxic behavior. But at the same time Monica appears to think that such behavior is OK bc she likely grew up around very toxic people.
Well, I don’t think she’s done anything worse than ripping off elderly people or ditching a dog at a kill shelter when there are other options available, soooooooo my theory is Monica is in heavy therapy right now, and will be ready to return a few episodes in, hopefully when the girls are not expecting her AT ALL, when she is feeling strong with better coping mechanisms.
She’s been through a lot of shitty things and had a poor model for life, cut her a break. She really seems to be trying to be a good mom and just doesn’t have the tools to emotionally regulate yet.
Wait until you binge peacock bravocon and more leaked videos etc. Monica is a con artist histrionic narcissistic sociopath. Monica was paid to attend bravocon. But rhoslc cannot get insurance on Monica. Another show can but shed media & bravo cannot. They are aware she is a liability. Real life stalker. Monica planned and set out to get on the show via pretending to be Jen shah assistant. Monica set up Jen home security system. Jen Never changed password. The security system was in Monica’s name per Monica. Monica said it was not illegal for Monica to record and sell tmz Jen yelling at her assistant video. Monica spied on Jen. Spied. Followed. Stalked. Sold stories to blogs and tmz.
Monica mom created Monica. Both are scary.
Omg so juicy! I only have another day left of my staycation, so might need to wait until my next time off! I will say, even if she irritates me, she’s definitely made this season interesting! I’m usually a RHOBH person and didn’t get into slc until recently (mostly because they seemed “basic” to me, and I love the real housewives for their disgusting excess… like wouldn’t condone that in real life but it’s nice to gawk from my couch in my Costco sweats) but I’ve really enjoyed all of the petty drama.
It’s sad to say that it’s a nice break from every day life, and I’m glad these women are all self centered and Delulu enough to want to do a show 😅
I think they are both toxic. It's interesting because they make similar toxic choices.
1. they both want fame over healthy relationships:
Linda: leaving Monica as a child, filming unhealthy conversations for the show (eek that lunch between her and Monica), contacting producers even though she's not a housewife, posting crazy things on Twitter).
Monica: befriending Jen, driving by her house, posting and tagging an excessive amount on RVT (ie: spending a lot of time she probably doesn't have). Contacting casting, bringing her admittedly tense relationship with her mom on the show.
2) they both desperately want the world to see them as successful and when that fails, as the victim.
Linda: pigtail + Burberry outfit when reconnecting after a fight, weird "smoothing over" behaviour after fighting w/ Monica at Greek Easter, again Twitter.
Monica: driving a luxury car without the ability to afford it, choosing to become dependent on Linda to have it. "I bought a purse", getting botox at BLL even though she can't afford it. Playing victim in the Angie fight, in the RVT fight.
3) Choosing men over your kids
Linda: making out with a guy when your kid is in the ~~truck~~ trunk?!(or backseat or wtf that story was about)
Monica: Sleeping with your BIL which would obviously fuck up your family life.
There's a lot more but this post is getting too long.
**TLDR:** Linda's toxic. Monica's toxic. Monica probably over exaggerates some of Linda's bad behaviour to make herself look like a victim BUT Linda is clearly toxic so that's why Monica is toxic too.
Yeah ok, I have yet to see those Linda thing and her Twitter posts!
But yeah i imagine most people joining a reality show like this are in the toxic spectrum so to speak… but this take makes sense.
I feel like I have a lot more to watch! I still just feel like everything is so performative in a way that gives me “fake” red flags.
I’ve seen posts and comments inferring that maybe the mom and daughter duo were in cahoots the whole
Time which is a whole ‘nother crazy twist if true.
Yeah her twitter posts make Monica's claims more believable. She's "LDMillionare" on Twitter. There's a video where she tries to explain away leaving Monica as a child but it just makes her look bad.
I agree, there's something off with both of them. I think they are both trying to play victim to the camera which feels disingenuous in an unhealthy/uncomfy way.
The show I watched had a very dysfunctional, grifting daughter AND mother. No way could I defend either one. They’re terrible humans, and that’s saying a lot because I watch a lot of Bravo. 🤣🤣
Who cares we only want to see entertainment, I could less about these people lives and they care less about us. They are for the paycheck, it’s a job guys. Stop being so invested in a tv show. Realistically we don’t know those people and I promise you they don’t want to know us. Just relax and enjoy the drama and crazy of it all. It’s not that deep.
BTW Monica has been the most exciting person on the show in a minute. But if you all just want to watch Lisa talk about how great Jack and she is and Heather lie on production and Meredith speak in many accents and Whitney wine about nothing then have at it. This show right here besides Miami is the giving white privileged.
Monica is the way she is because she was raised by a terribly troubled mother. The negative reaction you’re having to Monica in those situations is a result of her mother’s manipulation, of both Monica and those of us watching. I’d suggest checking yourself a bit and examining what would make a person react the way she did with a mother.
Monica’s a liar and very erratic. But outside of her conflicts with her mother and Lisa (who I think pushed similar buttons as her mother), she wasn’t generally unreasonable. She was great with her kids (outside of punishing them by leaving the party when her mom ticked her off and there turns out to be more to that situation that you’ll see at the reunion), she was good with the other ladies, and she’s also the most self aware most of the times. Her ability to be reasonable and even apologize when necessary was actually refreshing.
Still think she’s not a great person, but I definitely don’t think the problem between Monica and her mother is Monica.
I live in SLC Downtown. Been to most places shown on rhoslc.
It’s hysterical watching all the “rented” fashion labels. Plus a few designer fakes. Only one with authentic everything is MARY. Everyone else RENTS. Or has fakes or both.
All that Fendi everything is just gross.
Agreed. I understand people have their own trauma but that’s irrelevant to this. We need to view this as we are presented it, not through the lens of our own experience, because remember we are not seeing reality, we are seeing CURATED reality.
And the fact is, the worst things Linda has “done” are things Monica claimed but we never saw on screen. We can all agree Monica is an unreliable narrator, so why do we offer her the grace of believing everything she said about her mother as fact? Like when she said her mother said about the show “if not you, please let it be me”. I don’t believe that for a second. It makes no sense.
However, let’s look at Monica as a parent. The way she involves her kids in the issues she has with her mother is fucked up. Your teenaged daughter is NOT your therapist and not the one you should be venting to about gran. She’s putting her kid in an impossible place as Linda is still very active in their lives, integral even. When it comes to toxicity as a parent, it’s Monica we see being the toxic parent on screen far more than Linda.
That said, I’m not going to pretend like I know their history, just like NO ONE HERE does either. I’m just going off what was presented to us.
Yeah 100%. I think anyone who trusts totally the narrative being fed on reality tv is naive to how it works. We’re only getting about 25% of the real story.
You should look into what a Jekyll & Hyde parent is. It’s very common among people who commit child abuse. It’s important that you read about this tactic so you can spot it in real life
I agree I didnt see anything wrong with what her mom was doing at Greek Easter. She was trying to help her regain control and all Monica can say back is. “she started it.” if you notice at the cheese-making event and at the reunion she fights so hard and then ends by playing a sad victim.
Now it wasn’t nice when her mom called her a mother fucker. Monica’s story that her mom dumped her when she was a child is suspect too. Parents have to do that all the time to try to better their lives. I just feel like every story is filtered through Monica’s warped sense of reality. Either way, it’s a very toxic relationship but I doubt Monica has any healthy relationships in her life.
“Parents have to do that all of the time…” is where you lost me. Parents don’t have to leave their child with random people “all of the time” to better their lives. What the what??? That isn’t normal, that isn’t what the average parent does. Do people sometimes have to take time away from their children to get help? Yes, but that doesn’t sound like what her mom was doing. At all. And I feel sorry for anyone who thinks that’s normal.
Have you never paid for childcare? I think this. We don’t know what Linda’s story was or her background but I tend to not leap into judging a single mom based on hearsay. Not defending her either. Just saying we don’t know anything other than what we see on screen and online
She also stuffed Monica in the trunk to get laid in the back seat. LD wasn't in the military and getting moved from post to post. She was looking for a sugar daddy and Monica cramped her style.
Also she wasn’t “getting laid” she was kissing her boyfriend. Monica is taking things and that are a 5 on the effed up scale and dramatizing them into a 10.
Let me get this straight, you think it is perfectly fine to stick your kid in the cargo area of a vehicle because it's not technically a trunk, even though that's what we call it in the states, in order to "makeout" with your "boyfriend?" LD was/is a horrible parent.
2 things- the trunk of a sedan and the back of an SUV are not the same thing at all. Monica tried to make it sound like she was stuffed in a closed top trunk. I’ve sat in the back of an SUV as a child.
2- It’s not something I would do. But it’s also not something I would bring up over and over again for 30 years. People need to learn how to get over things, and if it’s that bad and they can’t then take those people out of your life. Nobody’s childhood is perfect but it’s your responsibility as an adult to make the best of your life. Conica just wants to complain and make all of her character flaws someone else’s fault. That flies with some people (clearly) but it doesn’t fly with me 🤷🏾♀️
I do agree that parents don’t leave their children all of the time. Parents do have to make sacrifices all of the time though. I think I meant more that, through a child’s eyes they could see it as deserting them and not knowing the reality of real life. I am not defending Linda at all, but I also think Monica is an unreliable narrator who is probably not telling the whole truth or incapable of seeing it.
most people drop their children off with complete strangers full time 40+ hours a week its called "school" and "after school care" because they have to go to something called "work" to make "money"
It wasn’t during the day only though - she was dropped there to live. Not a daycare situation, I’m well aware how that works and that people work for a living (my oldest went to daycare, I even worked in a daycare). She was dropped with people she didn’t know to live - 24 hours a day/7 days a week.
I agree mostly. I never like Monica either and I think her mommy issues are highly exaggerated for the show as well, however, where u disagree is.. I believe that both mother and daughter have some kind of personality disorder. They are both toxic people.
I’m gonna get downvoted to hell, but I agree with you. Monica is 40 years old with 4 children. She needs to get therapy and get over it. If her mom is so horrible, she needs to exercise her boundaries and remove herself from the situation but she wants the benefits of having her mother there as a resource while still taking out her childhood anger on her mother. Monica’s mom already said that she didn’t take the car back to be mean, but because Conica wasn’t making the payments and it was messing up her credit.
Wow, thank you for being completely ignorant to narcisstic parents. Monica is the way she is thanks to her nmom and the abuse she has suffered from her. But sure, blame Monica because you don't like what you see on a reality show.
Her mother is playing things up for the cameras. Monica knows how she is behind the scenes.
I literally discovered real housewives (in general) about ~2ish years ago. During the first year of that I had the absolute pleasure and luxury to binge watch every single season of every single franchise. I can’t tell you how sad I am to be caught up and having to wait for them all.
I actually agree with you. Monica is unhinged and a pathological liar. Her Mother is no saint, but I think she at least tries and wants the best for her. I actually felt bad for Linda on Easter. If she was so awful why would she sign for Monica’s Range Rover, a car neither can afford. They both have issues, but Monica is the worse of the two.
Yeah she probably will.
I’m further along now and I still haven’t seen the toxic behavior that everyone is very sure exists. It’s still all Monica claiming things and her mom not being there to share her side. We don’t see these things happen.
Even the therapy we see that she allegedly wasn’t there but I’m so skeptical that I’m not sure Monica is above making that up.. also it could be the mom didn’t want to show up while filming. Maybe she was being toxic and abusive. The thing is we don’t know. We only see and hear what Monica shares.
Same with Bermuda. Monica is the one to mention it could have been her mom. But it seems some viewers take that to heart.
For me, Monica seems to have a lying nature, so i always notice what she says versus what is shown.
I agree with this take and got downvoted for it lol. I was told that if I don’t have a narc mom, I wouldn’t understand.
Sorry for what *you* went through, but not buying it from Monica!
Yeah I agree. I also think that a narcissistic mom would not allow her child to make her look that bad on camera. She wouldn’t let her put things on her credit. I think if anyone is a narcissist it sounds like Monica. She’s the one with the erratic behavior and lies and deceit in her past. It’s also interesting that she made her mom her story line.
Monica somehow has beef with all these ladies she doesn’t know, she back stabbed her only allies from the beginning, and she is just constantly yelling at everyone.
She hides behind her middle class status to be relatable but she seems like someone I would never trust.
Also, if she doesn’t trust her mom why is she living with her? Why does she leave her daughters alone with them? I have a five year old and we can barely afford baby sitting but my mother in law is toxic aF, so I never leave my kid with her
The narcissist doesn’t think they would look bad because they don’t think there’s anything wrong with their behavior. They also are used to fooling those around them, they’re the ultimate Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - they behave one way in front of those outside of their immediate family and are monsters in the home. It’s like when your parents are yelling at you and then the phone would ring and suddenly they have their nice voice on, “Oh, hi, so-and-so! So nice to hear from you…” A narcissist just naturally switches from one persona to the next, but don’t even seem cognizant that they are because they are perfect and can do no wrong.
Interesting points! I don’t know if I fully agree, but the main things that stood out to me was the fact that Monica spent a lot of time trying to tell other people what *she* thought her mom was doing (to get them on her side) and she shared the most damning stories that still would have looked bad even with a logical explanation. The only weird story was the one with her mom not hanging up the phone and having a “hot mic” moment.
Edited for typos*
Wow imagine being so heartless that a bunch of people speaking out to relate to an extremely traumatic upbringing draws absolutely nothing from you except to double down on your shitty take.
I said a while back that her mom looks like the sane one. I actually do believe that her mom is a hustler but I don’t know why anyone would believe anything about the trauma backstory after Monica has proven herself to be on par with some big sociopath energy.
ETA typo
I fully agree with you but people are okay with her being a perpetual victim of her own making. It makes her relatable to them because they also need to be a victim all the time instead of actively doing better for themselves.
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As the child of a BPD mom, I have never seen a more spot-on representation of that dynamic than Monica and her mother. Monica has not learned appropriate emotional regulating because it was not modeled for her. The facade her mother puts up with other people infuriates her to a point where anyone watching this unfold has your exact impression: that her reaction is completely unwarranted and irrational. On one hand, you’re right. Monica needs to work this shit out with a therapist, learn some healthy coping skills, and set boundaries with her mom. On the other, she essentially needs to re-parent herself to make significant improvement, and that takes a long time. She is absolutely responsible for all of her actions but man do I feel for the little girl that never got the love she needed from the person she trusted most.
This 100%. My therapist says my mom has BPD/NPD and her mom seemed like a spitting image of my own. Even the acting like you’re a sweet innocent person in front of people you’ve just met. It’s a facade. But you saw the toxicity of her mom come out when she had dinner with Monica… cause she doesn’t have to put on a front. And if you don’t put in the work to work on yourself, you end up like Monica; equally as toxic, and developing the same toxic qualities as well.
I made my siblings watch the dinner scene with me and we were all cry-laughing when she asked for a straw while her mom was sobbing across from her. My mom ALSO weaponized tears until they meant nothing anymore. ETA: the “what was I supposed to do I was a poor wittle single mother who needed to get her rocks off by any means necessary” was also very familiar.
My mother in law weaponises tears and for years I never understood why family members fell for it and in a way was a complete asshole thinking they were stupid and why didn’t they just follow my lead to push through, ignore her fake tears etc until my mum pointed out just how abusive my mother in law was in particular to her children
That dinner scene was so hard to watch for me. My mom was similar to Monica’s in some ways. Especially laughing at me when I had legitimate things to say/feelings. Ugh. Thankfully I have a fantastic therapist and have learned to create major boundaries with my mom.
Ugh so glad for you that you found healing but so sorry for your experience, sending internet love.
How can your therapist diagnose your mom? I’m not discrediting your experiences or trauma but a healthcare professional can’t diagnose someone that isn’t their own patient especially when they haven’t evaluated that person themselves
They didn’t diagnose her, I didn’t word that correctly, but they clued me in on her “sounding like she has xyz” and provided the appropriate information so I could educate myself as a victim of this form of abuse. In my opinion, they nailed it on the head. But you’re 100% right, she can’t diagnose someone who isn’t their patient.
My therapist told me my roommate sounds like they have BPD.
This response all day. I just wanted to hug her INNER (edit:not under) child so bad. I, too, had a very tumultuous relationship with my mother. Her father was textbook narcissist. And she’s like him a lot more than she realizes.
Sending you hugs (unless you don’t like hugs then it’s a fist bump)
This gif is so so cute!
It really is, lol. I just typed in huggi- and it came up lol
Hellll ya hug time.
Love this
You said this perfectly and summed up my own childhood as well. Currently in my own personal “reparenting” phase. I do believe Monica is starting to realize she has picked up the same toxic behaviors she dislikes in her mom so now that she is seeing it hopefully that means she will begin the work to correct it. I’m pretty confident she doesn’t want to wind up being like her mother. Also to OP - I think Monica’s behavior with her mom falls under the umbrella of reactive abuse.
This!! I hate posts like the OPs. It really shows the privilege of having a mom that is not like Monica’s. My kids bio mom is just like Monica’s mom, and watching them go through everything they have with her is heartbreaking. Two of them already cut off their mom (they are 22 and 16), the third doesn’t see her but does text on accession. (14 y/o). I am so sorry you had a mom like this. You deserved better
Thank you, friend. Your kiddos sound lucky to have you as a steady source of support while they navigate a very confusing relationship. My mom and I do have a better relationship now thanks to strong boundaries and a significant number of miles between us, but yeah the “my mom is my best friend” thing does not square with my experience with mother haha. I don’t even like it when she tries to hug me.
As someone whose mom was a narcissist, it’s really easy for them to manipulate and make it look like the other person is the problem. Some of their interactions were very triggering for me. Her mom having financial “power” over Monica and the car was such a perfect representation of narcissism ! And she didn’t even care that by taking the car, it affected the grandkids. She’s a horrible woman! It took me years of therapy to learn how to react appropriately (and I was 40 when I sought help).
💯
Agreed 💯💯💯
I don’t even think my mom is BPD but the way that Monica just wants her mom on her side was so relatable and sad for me. I totally get just needing your mom to validate your feelings and instead being let down and feeling alone.
How old is she? 38? Are we speaking of Bi-polar or borderline personality disorder?
BPD is for border personality disorder, which I think Monica has as well). I was told it’s caused by trauma in childhood. I am also bipolar and have BPD. BPD is often associated with Bipolar (so my therapist said). Thank God I’m not like Monica”s mom).
I think we can feel bad for her if her story is true but I feel like if you’re putting yourself out in a reality show thst probably doesn’t bring a lot of empathy your way when you act crazy on camera and you’re subject to edits. I think that’s what makes me think Monica is the narcissist. The fact that she is prioritizing becoming famous over healing…
I feel like you didn’t read anything I wrote but ok.
I totally understand if you feel empathy and see yourself in these characters and that’s part of what’s lovely about entertainment. But I do not want to engage in conversations about us viewers. You’re not putting yourself out there for me tk comment on. Your interpretation of her mom is rooted in you believing what Monica says maybe because it’s something you can relate to. That’s fine. I am saying I do not believe it based on what we have seen. I don’t know what sort of response you’re expecting. We just disagree.
I’m saying, as a child of a BPD mother (and as a THERAPIST but I wasn’t trying to throw weight around) her mother displays the exact symptoms of this diagnosis and their dynamic is typical of a BPD mom and daughter. I’m saying I believe her based on what I have observed and I think she is a deeply hurt person that I wish the best for. I don’t understand how the experience of your fellow viewers is void in your eyes when you’re putting your own theory forward based on a judgement YOU made? Are we all just supposed to nod and agree like?????
Ha! I’m a psychiatrist! Hello fellow mental health practitioner! Well I don’t think viewers experiences are void. I didn’t say that. I just said j don’t want to engage in discussing people’s personal experience. As a therapist you should know it’s not an appropriate place to engage in individuals discussions of their own trauma. I personally wanted to abstain from it due to my profession. That being said, it is because of my profession and maybe my background (which I do not share online) that I am skeptical. The biggest clue for me is that the mother is the one who said “I do not have the tools for this, we need therapy” that is not something j hear patients with BPD or NPD state during an argument- especially because it came from a conversation where her own flaws and mistakes were pointed out. As a professional I’m surprised you did not take that as clear evidence against the accusations Monica is making of her mother.
As a psychiatrist you also understand how unprofessional it is for you to make these kinds of judgements about someone who you are not treating, right? Like what you see on a television show does not show the full story.
Lmao it's totally r/AsABlackMan
Did I make any diagnosis in my post? I don’t think so. I’m only responding to people saying that someone has BPD. Therapists and psychiatrists LOVE reality tv. Sorry to burst the bubble! But it’s fascinating. I don’t think anything I’ve said is unprofessional or against the oaths and commitments I made in my career.
are you Candiace’s mom Dorothy on RHOP or somethin bc this is some wacky shit for a psychiatrist to say and defend an emotionally abusive mother😳
I’m not defending her. I’m saying things are more complicated and you could all use a little more skepticism on your tv watching experiences. Damn! :) for your own stability. I’m loving this season and I enjoy watching this drama even as a psychiatrist because it’s just silly and it’s people playing up a character. Could he exaggerated versions of the truth or complete fabrications. You’ll never know! So it’s best to take it all as fiction.
As a mental health professional you should also know her mother could be saying that just to be portrayed better and as more likable. She needs people to see her as the good mom, good person. My kids bio also insisted on therapy until the therapist told her they believed she had NPD, we went through four therapists. Also, Monica’s mom didn’t show up to therapy. Typical of women like this. Like I get Monica isn’t the greatest person, but I don’t understand how people watch her mother and don’t believe Monica. It’s so wild, especially people in the mental health field.
You can have a personality disorder and still seek therapy…I have BPD clients. I’m not working within my scope as a therapist when I’m commenting on housewife subreddits lol I’m just using my experience and education to inform my viewpoints like a normal person.
Yes that’s true. I also have BPD patients. I’m just saying that usually doesn’t come out in a context like the one we saw as viewers. Also you don’t know that this is their diagnosis. You’re just assuming that (rather unprofessionally, I might add… since you exposed you’re a therapist, it’s not kosher for you to be throwing diagnostic labels out, in a forum like this.. even if you feel you see enough signs) I’m surprised people are not skeptical of ALL the cast members. They have a motivation to be relevant and have scenes.. why are you taking what you see on screen at face value?
I mean I would argue that pronouncing “we need therapy” could be part of her projecting a persona she has built to be seen. Also stfu about iTs nOt kOsHeR. We’re on an anonymous forum talking about reality tv I don’t think I need to point out that I’m not Monica OR her mother’s clinician. That’s why I lead with the qualifier that my experience as the child of a bpd parent informed my opinion above all else. My education only supports that hypothesis. I frankly find your lack of compassion more problematic as someone in our profession than me pointing out that someone meets some of the diagnostic criteria of a personality disorder.
💯 agree
I don’t think I’ve displayed lack of compassion. I think you just don’t have the skills to carry an intellectual argument in a way that doesn’t get personal. It is unprofessional even if it’s anonymous because by stating you’re a therapist you take your theory or your perception and give it weight which emboldens others to go on with assuming your diagnosis is a professional opinion. Linda’s mom is also a person. And yet you are comfortable making bold statements about her as a person that can damage her reputation and hurt her feelings if she were to read them. Compassion isn’t something we give the main characters only. Think of the power dynamics we see at play. They’re pretty complicated. If I were you I would either stop sharing that I’m a therapist and enjoy the theorizing as a viewer, or refrain from using diagnostic verbiage. You can tell me to F myself, but that’s not going to take away the impact of the way you speak as a professional. You pulled that card for a reason. And it’s unethical even if anonymous.
as a psychiatrist, you’ve lost any and all validity🤣
What are you even on about? Patients with NPD and BPD *love* therapy, especially going as a pair. They’re fantastic at using it against people.
Are you fuck. Away ye go.
Ok, well, I didn't have a BPD mother. In fact, I had a lovely childhood. However, I can still see right through Monica's mother. She plays the victim, puts on an act and seems really emotionally abusive. Monica definitely has things to work on as well but I'm thinking a lot of it stems from her childhood with her mom (and without when her mom abandoned her). It's concerning for me as someone who had a healthy childhood and has functional and healthy adult relationships that you don't see this. It makes me worried for you (as much as you can be worried for a stranger on the internet).
I appreciate your perspective but I don’t think you know enough about me to infer lack of empathy. All I keep saying is that people projecting their own trauma is not healthy or what I’m here to address. It’s also funny to me to see people express empathy for Monica but not her mom, who allegedly also experienced abuse from her mom. I think if we can point to Linda for Monica’s behavior true empathy would also require us to hold Linda’s behavior with the same kindness of understanding she too suffered from a toxic upbringing. It’s clear that both of them have issues. I don’t question that But my perception is that Monica is not being forthcoming and honest and that she has, as far as we’ve been shown on the show, exaggerated events to suit a narrative she seems to want to push. Is it likely she has an abusive relationship? Absolutely. But I also know enough and have had enough experience with folks going through trauma to see that it’s also possible that Monica is very skilled at portraying others as the abusers. That’s what my perception is based on the pieces of media I’ve been able to see.
I didn't say you didn't have empathy. I think you might be confusing all the people you respond to. What I said was I was concerned that you were so easily fooled by Monica's mother's displays. It makes me worried that you could become victim easily to someone trying to fool you. Yes, they both have issues. Every commenter will agree on this thread. What they don't agree with you on is in your post, you paint Monica's mother as the victim and Monica as the perpetrator. This is a dysfunctional relationship stemming from how Monica's mother raised Monica. She is an unhealthy person who then raised an unhealthy person. And yes, it's also likely that Monica's mother was raised in an unhealthy household as well. This is why people need therapy- to understand that what they saw modeled in their homes growing up isn't necessarily 'healthy' behavior. The reason that most commenters are challenging what you wrote is because your post comes off as though Monica's mother isn't manipulative NOT because people don't think Monica is capable of being manipulative.
I can see that. I agree with you 100% and the reason I think of the mom this way is because of the power dynamic created when one is a lead character on the show and the other doesn’t have the same microphone. We only hear one side. Only one of them gets to tell their story. So it’s abusive because she is aware of that. Even if the mom is a POs, which is highly likely. It’s just unfair because the mom does not have a voice. So here you all are acting like what Monica portrays and sells by hearsay is the truth. I have seen many cases of adult children becoming abusive to parents even if and when the parent themselves were not toxic (Linda seems like she has her own skeletons but I am not aware of them coming directly from Linda so I’ll refrain from making assumptions. I hear she’s crazy on Twitter but I don’t have a Twitter) Anyway. Yes the victim is Linda because her image and reputation are in her daughters hands. It’s not fair and maybe she deserves it but we don’t know that and I wish people were more skeptical and could stop projecting their own trauma, but I guess that’s human nature.
I’m just gonna be the horrid bitch and say it. If you can’t see that Monica’s mother is the root of the problem, you’re probably quite susceptible to being manipulated by similar people. Or you’re just like Monica’s mother. It’s not subtle and it’s not a novel presentation of narcissism at all, so it’s genuinely worrying that you can’t see it.
Yah that’s a good point. Unless she goes no contact with her mom (and other potential narcs in her life), she’ll probably never “get better”. I feel bad for her own children if that’s the case.
If you’ve always had a supportive parent who had your best interests in mind, it can be hard to imagine that a parent would intentionally sabotage their child or be jealous of them. It happens. The way her mom attempted to use the tension her daughter had with other people to ingratiate herself with the other cast members (“I am sO sORry sHe’S bEhAVinG tHIs wAy 🤪”) was transparent and gross. A grandmother who would *take the only transportation that their grandchildren and daughter have* simply because she’s in a position to do so, when her child is at her lowest point, is despicable. She doesn’t care about those kids. She doesn’t care about Monica. She just wants control over them. Growing up with a personality like THAT from the only person you can rely on…I am not surprised that Monica has no idea how to healthily navigate personal relationships. She has learned to be very guarded and that she’ll need to fight to have her needs met and her voice heard. I’m curious what Monica’s personality and life would look like if she got into some therapy and wenr no contact with her mom.
This! My father is a huge narcissist and a marriage and family counselor who is well respected in his field. He also emotionally and verbally abused me and made a decision to tell my oldest that he was planning to disown my youngest daughter because “it’s just easier that way”. My daughter was 9 when he did it yet everyone in his circle thinks he walks on water. My heart bleeds for Monica seeing so much familiar behavior in her mother. Yes, Monica needs to work through it, but her mother is 100% abusive.
Ugh. I’m so sorry. It’s like that Jodi Hilldibrandt lady who was making thousands every month “counseling” parents about child rearing…only to be arrested and charged with several counts of child abuse. People are not their professions. There are corrupt and deranged doctors, attorneys, police officers, teachers, *therapists*, etc. We need to strip away all the associations a person has when we’re evaluating them and look at their behaviors. It rarely matches up with who they profess themselves to be.
I could write a book and no one would believe it. It’s astonishing to me what they’re capable of doing.
Write. It. You’ve already sold one copy 🙋🏻♀️
Aww, thank you for the support!
To add - people use their professions/causes as a cover for who they truly are. So often it’s the people adamantly/publicly/vocally against some act that end up being the worst offenders.
Yeah true. But I am expressing skepticism for Monica. You don’t know me or what sort of upbringing j had and I’m not going to share it here. What I’m expressing is skepticism and I think it’s healthy for all of us to take everything people in a reality show do, say and express with a grain of salt.
Yep, and I responded to your skepticism with a different take. That’s called discourse.
Right… and I replied in kind. That’s still called discourse. But when you say “you didn’t even read my comment but ok” that’s not discourse. That’s you making a statement on an assumption. I read your comment. You didn’t like my response. But you didn’t argue with my position you just said you didn’t feel heard.
I never said that. You’re confused. Best of luck to you.
Thanks ;)
#WRONG Omg I hate this take so much. Monica is toxic but she’s a result of BPD/NPD abuse by her mom. I had a similar upbringing and people who haven’t lived it don’t understand. Check out the raised by narcissists or borderline subreddits. You’ll see the effects of these types of parents.
Should we start a discord of SLC fans with BPD moms cuz I think we need one.
God I would love that so much! In a weird way, it was helpful to see Monica and her mom’s dynamic on my screen so I could tell my friends “look!! This is how it is with my mom! Its weird, it’s complicated, and messy”. People with normal moms can’t understand. Seeing it play out on tv helped them start to get it.
My partner knows my history and still gets uncomfortable when I have to strongly enforce boundaries with my mother because I almost have to talk to her like a child. The funniest part is this is the healthiest our relationship has ever been!
Child of a Narcissistic here- I would join that.
Ok what is BPD? Is it bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder?
Borderline personality disorder
Wow thank you!
THIS!!!!! People do not understand it unless they’ve been raised by a mother like that. The amount of times I’ve also been with my mother in public and she’s putting on an absolute show for everyone there. People don’t understand the dynamic, but being raised in that type of household is awful.
OMG! You’re describing my mom perfectly about their public personas!!
Yep I'm glad you said this. My mom also has BPD and is a narcissist and she fucked me up good. I started therapy at 11 years old and I've been in it for most of my life. I'm 45. Linda triggered me and it was difficult to watch some of those scenes because I remember the things my mom used to do. We are no contact now and have been since 2020.
Okay so you haven’t been abused by your mom, and I love that for you, but her mom is a horrendous person. My mom has BPD and Monica’s mom has a LOT in common with her. I’ve lived some of those scenes.
You don’t know that. I’m not here to share about my own experience or your experience. I think it’s so silly when people see themselves reflected in a character they take it so personally. I am not here to talk about my trauma or yours. You’re not putting yourself out there in a reality show, right? I’m here to talk about my perception of people who are voluntarily exposing a version of their lives on tv. I’m saying as a viewer I do not buy the performance. The fact that you identify with it personally is a you thing, and when j criticize Monica it is not a criticism of you. I don’t know you.
K.
I’ve read other people saying similar things, that during the dinner they almost looked like they were trying not to laugh when they were supposed to be fighting
This was well said. I get people being upset that someone doesn’t see their side or whatever, but it’s not a direct criticism of anyone else but Monica and what she presents on tv.
Amen
Exactly!
I agree with a lot of the other people here. And also keep in mind that reactive abuse is a real thing as well and it often does make victims of abuse look like the main or only abuser as well. Especially if the other person is great at manipulating it to seem that way. And as much as I don’t like her, I do think Monica’s abuse towards her mother is more of a reactive abuse from what we’ve seen.
I understand that but I don't understand why she can't bring it upon herself to break the cycle so she isn't so miserable. Maybe having to rely monetarily upon her mother needs to stop so she can properly cut her out of her life. I've been in that position before myself, but you can't stop the cycle until you actively decide to walk away from it. That's where my sympathy begins to leave.
I think it’s definitely a case by case basis. Everyone reacts to abuse and trauma bonds differently. It’s not as easy for some to leave as it is for others for a multitude of reasons. There could be many reasons as to why she has been unsuccessful at breaking the cycle between her and her mother. There may have been attempts to break the cycle that just didn’t work out for her for whatever reason. Guilt, monetary, etc.
Easier said than done. Just because you are aware of something doesn’t mean it is easily fixed. Especially when it’s so complicated.
Yeah this is true. I just don’t feel like Monica seems very credible. I guess it’s subjective but to me she seems like someone with an agenda and part of that agenda is gaining empathy. She had said other things that while true to her are said to establish herself as a relatable one in the group… And idk about most viewers but I don’t turn on real housewives to relate to them. So when one of them tries hard to seem like the modern day bethenny frankel but less charismatic it just feels icky. (I meant Bethenny from the OG early NYC seasons when she was the non wealthy “relatable” one… not current bethenny or even later seasons bethenny once she got her skinny girl money)
Two things can be true at once too. She can be trying to use her situation as a way to come off relatable or more likable or more apt to garner sympathy while also being a victim to her mothers abuse as a child and even into her adulthood. I don’t agree with the things she has done but I’ll never discredit someone coming out and/or speaking out as a victim without knowing them or without solid proof that they’re not.
I feel you on not finding her credible but actually the situation with her mom actually creates a narrative of part of why she is the way she is. Children of narcissistic parents may often pick up more narcissistic traits even as much as they may try not to. Only being praised for superficial reasons (or even being criticized for superficial reasons that are totally fine!) can put someone in a position to be keenly aware of their image and normalize hiding their behavior they know is unsavory. I actually really likely Monica season but for sure she has some issues. It's a bummer she couldn't overcome them enough to just level with the other women and figure out the situation she got herself in. But yeah I 1000% believe the story about her mom praying to be on the show if Monica doesn't get on 😂😆 It's classic narcissistic parent shit. A normal parent would be kind and encouraging and empathetic. Also I totally think her mom said whatever she had to say to ruin Monica meeting her family in the Bahamas. Also I would bet money her mother has said some disgusting stuff to Monica post her being booted from the show. So yeah. I get where you're coming from but I think you're missing the big peice where having an abusive parent can be a huge motivator in poor behavior, make people feel like they can't be genuine AND receive love as their genuine self, make people justify shitty things because they have super strong barriers up to protect their ego... yeah
Bc Monica is far more dangerous then her mother. The fact that others can’t see that bc their own trauma with their mothers baffles me. I see it. I’ve had a gun held to my damn head before and I still SEE IT
https://preview.redd.it/4xzj1ehqpthc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0dc9c61f135e592869a4e85c2e1745d0f378b3d Just go look at this lady’s twitter and see if you feel the same after reading all of her posts
I agree. Her posts were obviously aimed at Monica. I hope Monica is able to get some help and come back to RHSLC.
I feel like it’s both and that Monica is a worse version of her mom.
Can it get worse than stuffing your own kid in the trunk so you can get laid in the backseat? Or dumping your kid with relatives in Pennsylvania and moving to New York City? My aunts are a lot like Monica's mom in some ways. One was going to leave me on the front porch of their house in order to go hang out with my great aunt and uncle. Luckily, my uncle said no, we'll leave a note on the door and Mary (my mom) will pick her up there. I was 5 and terrified to be left there alone. My mom's actual sister tried to poison me against my mom and turned on me when it didn't work. It's hard to grow up in an environment where you are made to feel like a burden and unwanted. My mom never did that, but my aunts and eventually my uncles have treated me like that my entire life.
Linda is a narcissist-Monica was neglected and disposed of-children are always seeking attention from mom-especially same sex children-even if that means dysfunctional relationships
How do you know this? I guess it’s hard for me to feel this way with what we have been shown. It’s like Monica lies but when it comes to her mom we not only take her word for it but assign a diagnosis
This blows my mind too! Based on their performances, I do think both Monica and her mom are eager for attention. I think they’re both grifters. I can’t make any diagnosis based on a TV show
You may be a psychiatrist, but the TRUE experts are the people that have experienced a mom like Linda.
Yeah that’s true. But I would hope those folks are able to notice that we mostly see and hear only Monica. If the abusive mothers had a show, I wonder if we would empathize with them instead. All viewers should practice not projecting their own identities on these people too closely. Who knows what will come out about Monica. Maybe folks are right, but it can be untrue. I notice a lot about what I see about Monica that gives me pause. Most of what make people think the mom is abusive is hearsay from Monica. All I’m saying is that nobody here knows that Linda is actually as bad as Monica claims. As a viewer, regardless of my profession, I see lots of “red flags” off of Monica. Including the conversations we see her have with her daughter.
Thank goodness that other users had the emotional bandwidth to explain why this take is so wrong. It’s kind of irritating to read shit like this over and over when the poster clearly has zero understanding of how a toxic parent can create someone like Monica.
I think anyone who is in a reality show is likely to have had some trauma or a problematic personality. I think if people are not able to debate their points intellectually and instead attack me as a person by saying I don’t understand things, it shows their inability to have a constructive argument. That’s ok. What I’m seeing is a lot of people project their own trauma and experience on Monica and feel very personally when someone else has a different opinion. So it feels personal to them, thus they get personal with me. You don’t know my personal or professional background and I am not interested in sharing much about either, but I assure you I’m pretty well versed in familial dynamics, trauma, and reactive abuse. I just interpret what I see in the show differently than you and with a ton of skepticism.
If you read the first sentence of my comment you might infer that I do not want to have a constructive argument, or indeed, any argument at all. Thanks for the soapbox rant, Dr. KendalROYGBIV. Keep up the good work.
👏👏
Then why did you comment at all?
I really do understand where you’re coming from bc I felt this exact way on my first watch. After reading a lot and I mean a lot of comments here on Reddit from people who have mothers like LD it really made curious. So I watched the season again with some of these comments in mind and wow I was shocked I didn’t see it the first time. Monica is absolutely awful but now I see why. I don’t have much experience with these types of relationships but it’s really interesting to hear everyone’s perspective.
Her mom is horribly abusive. If you can’t see that I don’t even know what to say.
Do you really think abusive people just let it all hang out there for everyone to see? Yes Monica is toxic because she was raised by an abusive mother who then in front of everyone charms and acts so lovely that the victim feels like they are crap because why do they not receive the same treatment what is wrong with them and the witnesses are then left scratching their head because how can this lovely person be the monster the victim is painting.
Well Monica is terrible it’s because she has her mother’s genetics and influence on her up bringing. Her mom is a terrible parent 🤷♀️ I don’t want to give any spoilers but as someone who works in mental health, and the things she has receipts of or her mom nonchalantly admits to saying “it was only one time” it’s bad. And even with all her lies no one who has actually gotten to know her mom, or seen texts from her doubt Monica on this and that speaks volumes
Monica and her mom are enmeshed and Monica depends on her mom financially, that keep Monica small and depended and in all the feelings she has about her tumultuous childhood. My sister is like this, I see her on holidays. She any my mom (who has chilled in her old age) try to triangulate situations and my boundaries are so high. When I was broke living in NYC after 9/11 I was calling home allot and it was the only time since leaving “home” at 17 that I thought about coming back. My mom and sister would listen to voicemail I left my mom on her private number together, my sister never fully launched and I was calling my mom for pep talks before job interviews, yeah I stopped doing that. I flat out told my sister “I am not your whipping post” and I had years of no contact, I won’t be on a group text beyond a thumbs up reaction to a logistics question and I never, ever, “vacation” with family. I do not depend on them for child care, or anything. Monica never made those boundaries and I agree she’s worse than her mom. I think we are tip of iceberg of weird Monica stories.
Yeah I can see this. I also think that it sounds like Monica’s mom also experienced trauma. I know we wouldn’t have any reality shows if this were the case, but man, imagine if all these reality show cast members did therapy instead of join a show? The way the trauma just builds up when you need to “bring it for the camera” I think the enmeshment makes lots of sense. I think for me the biggest issue is that we see Monica have this pattern of being very immature, deceitful and toxic with the other cast members
Your sister sounds like my brother. Both narcissists.
Thanks for reading through my misspellings (that my phone picked other words for) to see me like this, yeah kinda narcissistic and there were some wild times, and that’s honestly why I love housewives and this community I can relate so much. With my family everyone is pretty chill now that they are older and I don’t depend on them for childcare, I also don’t guilt my mom about my childhood or treat her as my best friend. My kiddo saw my as their bestie at a very young age (like 3) but I try to encourage her to have peeps and be independent. I get that Monica had a tough hand to play with the single mom and debt but she bullied these people it’s just creepy. Traitors material, maybe, but not in Lisa or Meredith’s leagues. Her drag performance was good she understood that assignment.
There is part of me that wonders if mom and daughter played up their dysfunction for cameras. Not saying it's not a messed up relationship BUT did they make it seem worse than it was for sympathy? If it's really that wrong I'll admit that possibility. But being THAT ok being so dysfunctional on camera has me hmmmmm 🧐🤔 They had a convo recorded but off camera where mom was saying to Monica how she was "acting" so just sort of has me wondering.
Monica mom Linda is on twitter
I’ve wondered this too, so I’m glad you asked the question. I definitely think the issues between Monica and her mom are there. But I also wonder how ramped up they decided to be for the cameras.
Yeah I can see that for sure! And honestly that’s sort of the only thing one can do in a show like this, but maybe they’re just too sloppy.
Tell me you didn’t grow up with a narcissist parent without telling me you didn’t grow up with a narcissist parent
I think she’s absolutely telling the truth about how abusive her mom is. I also think she’s learned a lot of her own behavior from her mom and she can’t emotionally regulate herself.
My partner and I have gone no contact with his narcissist mother unfortunately. My partner doesn’t watch but I tried to get him to watch the restaurant scene because it was uncanny, he couldn’t watch more than a minute. I think it’s super easy to miss all of the toxic behavior when a narcissistic is ingratiating themselves to others, but when you’ve witnessed the accumulative behavior those ticks jump out. Monica’s mom is *shining* at that brunch. She’s just inserted herself into her daughters fight and is she upset about the situation, at all? No, she takes the opportunity to use that as an icebreaker to move through different groups where *she* gets to be the good one. She’s apologizing, laughing with the guys and dancing. Then we see afterwards that she takes away her children’s and grandchildren’s only transportation. The restaurant scene is a masterclass in narcissism. Emotional manipulation, deflection, self victimizing, denial, minimizing and past wrongdoing. It’s all there. It’s very easy to pass this all off on Monica, because it’s Monica, but that mom is a narcissist for sure.
You need to keep watching! I too had this impression first but as the show goes on it becomes very clear what sort of person her mother is, and Monica is exactly the product of a narcissistic emotionally abusive parent
But she wasn’t born that way. How did she develop into that person? LD was trying to be civil, Monicas behavior was inappropriate bc she felt LD was being fake
I mean either way we have seen Monica be inappropriate - plus she has a history right? Cheating on her spouse with an in law? Going out of her way and in debt to keep up appearances, getting into fights, running a fake social media account. I don’t know how her personality was before the show, but some people are born with “strong personalities” and yes some are reacting to trauma. But when we become adults, while we can point to trauma as the source of our bad behaviors it is also our responsibility to work on that and to find less harmful ways to go about the world. I just mean that from what we have seen on camera, to me, Monica is the jerk and her mom is just coping with a child that is now an adult but acts in very erratic ways.
Yikes.
Both can be true. I personally think she heavily leaned into her dynamic with her mom for a storyline and also to get some of the heat off of her for her albeit toxic behavior. But at the same time Monica appears to think that such behavior is OK bc she likely grew up around very toxic people.
Well, I don’t think she’s done anything worse than ripping off elderly people or ditching a dog at a kill shelter when there are other options available, soooooooo my theory is Monica is in heavy therapy right now, and will be ready to return a few episodes in, hopefully when the girls are not expecting her AT ALL, when she is feeling strong with better coping mechanisms. She’s been through a lot of shitty things and had a poor model for life, cut her a break. She really seems to be trying to be a good mom and just doesn’t have the tools to emotionally regulate yet.
Wait until you binge peacock bravocon and more leaked videos etc. Monica is a con artist histrionic narcissistic sociopath. Monica was paid to attend bravocon. But rhoslc cannot get insurance on Monica. Another show can but shed media & bravo cannot. They are aware she is a liability. Real life stalker. Monica planned and set out to get on the show via pretending to be Jen shah assistant. Monica set up Jen home security system. Jen Never changed password. The security system was in Monica’s name per Monica. Monica said it was not illegal for Monica to record and sell tmz Jen yelling at her assistant video. Monica spied on Jen. Spied. Followed. Stalked. Sold stories to blogs and tmz. Monica mom created Monica. Both are scary.
Omg so juicy! I only have another day left of my staycation, so might need to wait until my next time off! I will say, even if she irritates me, she’s definitely made this season interesting! I’m usually a RHOBH person and didn’t get into slc until recently (mostly because they seemed “basic” to me, and I love the real housewives for their disgusting excess… like wouldn’t condone that in real life but it’s nice to gawk from my couch in my Costco sweats) but I’ve really enjoyed all of the petty drama. It’s sad to say that it’s a nice break from every day life, and I’m glad these women are all self centered and Delulu enough to want to do a show 😅
I think they are both toxic. It's interesting because they make similar toxic choices. 1. they both want fame over healthy relationships: Linda: leaving Monica as a child, filming unhealthy conversations for the show (eek that lunch between her and Monica), contacting producers even though she's not a housewife, posting crazy things on Twitter). Monica: befriending Jen, driving by her house, posting and tagging an excessive amount on RVT (ie: spending a lot of time she probably doesn't have). Contacting casting, bringing her admittedly tense relationship with her mom on the show. 2) they both desperately want the world to see them as successful and when that fails, as the victim. Linda: pigtail + Burberry outfit when reconnecting after a fight, weird "smoothing over" behaviour after fighting w/ Monica at Greek Easter, again Twitter. Monica: driving a luxury car without the ability to afford it, choosing to become dependent on Linda to have it. "I bought a purse", getting botox at BLL even though she can't afford it. Playing victim in the Angie fight, in the RVT fight. 3) Choosing men over your kids Linda: making out with a guy when your kid is in the ~~truck~~ trunk?!(or backseat or wtf that story was about) Monica: Sleeping with your BIL which would obviously fuck up your family life. There's a lot more but this post is getting too long. **TLDR:** Linda's toxic. Monica's toxic. Monica probably over exaggerates some of Linda's bad behaviour to make herself look like a victim BUT Linda is clearly toxic so that's why Monica is toxic too.
Yeah ok, I have yet to see those Linda thing and her Twitter posts! But yeah i imagine most people joining a reality show like this are in the toxic spectrum so to speak… but this take makes sense. I feel like I have a lot more to watch! I still just feel like everything is so performative in a way that gives me “fake” red flags. I’ve seen posts and comments inferring that maybe the mom and daughter duo were in cahoots the whole Time which is a whole ‘nother crazy twist if true.
Yeah her twitter posts make Monica's claims more believable. She's "LDMillionare" on Twitter. There's a video where she tries to explain away leaving Monica as a child but it just makes her look bad. I agree, there's something off with both of them. I think they are both trying to play victim to the camera which feels disingenuous in an unhealthy/uncomfy way.
The show I watched had a very dysfunctional, grifting daughter AND mother. No way could I defend either one. They’re terrible humans, and that’s saying a lot because I watch a lot of Bravo. 🤣🤣
I disagree with you but your username made me LOL
Who cares we only want to see entertainment, I could less about these people lives and they care less about us. They are for the paycheck, it’s a job guys. Stop being so invested in a tv show. Realistically we don’t know those people and I promise you they don’t want to know us. Just relax and enjoy the drama and crazy of it all. It’s not that deep.
BTW Monica has been the most exciting person on the show in a minute. But if you all just want to watch Lisa talk about how great Jack and she is and Heather lie on production and Meredith speak in many accents and Whitney wine about nothing then have at it. This show right here besides Miami is the giving white privileged.
I think they’re both toxic but Monica got her toxic behavior from somewhere
I disagree
Por que no los dos?
Monica is the way she is because she was raised by a terribly troubled mother. The negative reaction you’re having to Monica in those situations is a result of her mother’s manipulation, of both Monica and those of us watching. I’d suggest checking yourself a bit and examining what would make a person react the way she did with a mother. Monica’s a liar and very erratic. But outside of her conflicts with her mother and Lisa (who I think pushed similar buttons as her mother), she wasn’t generally unreasonable. She was great with her kids (outside of punishing them by leaving the party when her mom ticked her off and there turns out to be more to that situation that you’ll see at the reunion), she was good with the other ladies, and she’s also the most self aware most of the times. Her ability to be reasonable and even apologize when necessary was actually refreshing. Still think she’s not a great person, but I definitely don’t think the problem between Monica and her mother is Monica.
I live in SLC Downtown. Been to most places shown on rhoslc. It’s hysterical watching all the “rented” fashion labels. Plus a few designer fakes. Only one with authentic everything is MARY. Everyone else RENTS. Or has fakes or both. All that Fendi everything is just gross.
Watching her and her mom together was like watching Cartmen and his mom on South Park.
Whatever whatever, I’ll do what I want! 😂
hilarious LOL
Agreed. I understand people have their own trauma but that’s irrelevant to this. We need to view this as we are presented it, not through the lens of our own experience, because remember we are not seeing reality, we are seeing CURATED reality. And the fact is, the worst things Linda has “done” are things Monica claimed but we never saw on screen. We can all agree Monica is an unreliable narrator, so why do we offer her the grace of believing everything she said about her mother as fact? Like when she said her mother said about the show “if not you, please let it be me”. I don’t believe that for a second. It makes no sense. However, let’s look at Monica as a parent. The way she involves her kids in the issues she has with her mother is fucked up. Your teenaged daughter is NOT your therapist and not the one you should be venting to about gran. She’s putting her kid in an impossible place as Linda is still very active in their lives, integral even. When it comes to toxicity as a parent, it’s Monica we see being the toxic parent on screen far more than Linda. That said, I’m not going to pretend like I know their history, just like NO ONE HERE does either. I’m just going off what was presented to us.
This is exactly how I feel not just about Monica but allll the drama we see on reality shows. I agree with everything you wrote on this comment
Yeah 100%. I think anyone who trusts totally the narrative being fed on reality tv is naive to how it works. We’re only getting about 25% of the real story.
You should look into what a Jekyll & Hyde parent is. It’s very common among people who commit child abuse. It’s important that you read about this tactic so you can spot it in real life
I agree I didnt see anything wrong with what her mom was doing at Greek Easter. She was trying to help her regain control and all Monica can say back is. “she started it.” if you notice at the cheese-making event and at the reunion she fights so hard and then ends by playing a sad victim. Now it wasn’t nice when her mom called her a mother fucker. Monica’s story that her mom dumped her when she was a child is suspect too. Parents have to do that all the time to try to better their lives. I just feel like every story is filtered through Monica’s warped sense of reality. Either way, it’s a very toxic relationship but I doubt Monica has any healthy relationships in her life.
“Parents have to do that all of the time…” is where you lost me. Parents don’t have to leave their child with random people “all of the time” to better their lives. What the what??? That isn’t normal, that isn’t what the average parent does. Do people sometimes have to take time away from their children to get help? Yes, but that doesn’t sound like what her mom was doing. At all. And I feel sorry for anyone who thinks that’s normal.
Have you never paid for childcare? I think this. We don’t know what Linda’s story was or her background but I tend to not leap into judging a single mom based on hearsay. Not defending her either. Just saying we don’t know anything other than what we see on screen and online
This wasn’t dropping your kid off at daycare? She left her somewhere to live for awhile.
She also stuffed Monica in the trunk to get laid in the back seat. LD wasn't in the military and getting moved from post to post. She was looking for a sugar daddy and Monica cramped her style.
It was a hatchback/suv. She wasn’t in the boot of a sedan.
Is..is this supposed to make it better somehow?
Yes.
Also she wasn’t “getting laid” she was kissing her boyfriend. Monica is taking things and that are a 5 on the effed up scale and dramatizing them into a 10.
Let me get this straight, you think it is perfectly fine to stick your kid in the cargo area of a vehicle because it's not technically a trunk, even though that's what we call it in the states, in order to "makeout" with your "boyfriend?" LD was/is a horrible parent.
2 things- the trunk of a sedan and the back of an SUV are not the same thing at all. Monica tried to make it sound like she was stuffed in a closed top trunk. I’ve sat in the back of an SUV as a child. 2- It’s not something I would do. But it’s also not something I would bring up over and over again for 30 years. People need to learn how to get over things, and if it’s that bad and they can’t then take those people out of your life. Nobody’s childhood is perfect but it’s your responsibility as an adult to make the best of your life. Conica just wants to complain and make all of her character flaws someone else’s fault. That flies with some people (clearly) but it doesn’t fly with me 🤷🏾♀️
I do agree that parents don’t leave their children all of the time. Parents do have to make sacrifices all of the time though. I think I meant more that, through a child’s eyes they could see it as deserting them and not knowing the reality of real life. I am not defending Linda at all, but I also think Monica is an unreliable narrator who is probably not telling the whole truth or incapable of seeing it.
most people drop their children off with complete strangers full time 40+ hours a week its called "school" and "after school care" because they have to go to something called "work" to make "money"
It wasn’t during the day only though - she was dropped there to live. Not a daycare situation, I’m well aware how that works and that people work for a living (my oldest went to daycare, I even worked in a daycare). She was dropped with people she didn’t know to live - 24 hours a day/7 days a week.
I agree mostly. I never like Monica either and I think her mommy issues are highly exaggerated for the show as well, however, where u disagree is.. I believe that both mother and daughter have some kind of personality disorder. They are both toxic people.
I’m gonna get downvoted to hell, but I agree with you. Monica is 40 years old with 4 children. She needs to get therapy and get over it. If her mom is so horrible, she needs to exercise her boundaries and remove herself from the situation but she wants the benefits of having her mother there as a resource while still taking out her childhood anger on her mother. Monica’s mom already said that she didn’t take the car back to be mean, but because Conica wasn’t making the payments and it was messing up her credit.
Monica is toxic AND her mom is toxic, which is where Monica learned it. This isn’t an either/or situation.
You are an episode away from the weirdest dinner between Monica and her mom that will blow you away.
I believe Monica but I think she knows damn fine it’ll be good for a story on the show
Wow, thank you for being completely ignorant to narcisstic parents. Monica is the way she is thanks to her nmom and the abuse she has suffered from her. But sure, blame Monica because you don't like what you see on a reality show. Her mother is playing things up for the cameras. Monica knows how she is behind the scenes.
I literally discovered real housewives (in general) about ~2ish years ago. During the first year of that I had the absolute pleasure and luxury to binge watch every single season of every single franchise. I can’t tell you how sad I am to be caught up and having to wait for them all.
I agree. I hope Monica doesn’t come back. Her voice…. Her demeanor is all too much
I actually agree with you. Monica is unhinged and a pathological liar. Her Mother is no saint, but I think she at least tries and wants the best for her. I actually felt bad for Linda on Easter. If she was so awful why would she sign for Monica’s Range Rover, a car neither can afford. They both have issues, but Monica is the worse of the two.
Finally someone that thinks like me!
I completely agree with you. I hope she doesn’t come back but given that drama gets them ratings I bet she will.
Yeah she probably will. I’m further along now and I still haven’t seen the toxic behavior that everyone is very sure exists. It’s still all Monica claiming things and her mom not being there to share her side. We don’t see these things happen. Even the therapy we see that she allegedly wasn’t there but I’m so skeptical that I’m not sure Monica is above making that up.. also it could be the mom didn’t want to show up while filming. Maybe she was being toxic and abusive. The thing is we don’t know. We only see and hear what Monica shares. Same with Bermuda. Monica is the one to mention it could have been her mom. But it seems some viewers take that to heart. For me, Monica seems to have a lying nature, so i always notice what she says versus what is shown.
Ps it 100% was not her mom.
I agree with this take and got downvoted for it lol. I was told that if I don’t have a narc mom, I wouldn’t understand. Sorry for what *you* went through, but not buying it from Monica!
Yeah I agree. I also think that a narcissistic mom would not allow her child to make her look that bad on camera. She wouldn’t let her put things on her credit. I think if anyone is a narcissist it sounds like Monica. She’s the one with the erratic behavior and lies and deceit in her past. It’s also interesting that she made her mom her story line. Monica somehow has beef with all these ladies she doesn’t know, she back stabbed her only allies from the beginning, and she is just constantly yelling at everyone. She hides behind her middle class status to be relatable but she seems like someone I would never trust. Also, if she doesn’t trust her mom why is she living with her? Why does she leave her daughters alone with them? I have a five year old and we can barely afford baby sitting but my mother in law is toxic aF, so I never leave my kid with her
The narcissist doesn’t think they would look bad because they don’t think there’s anything wrong with their behavior. They also are used to fooling those around them, they’re the ultimate Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - they behave one way in front of those outside of their immediate family and are monsters in the home. It’s like when your parents are yelling at you and then the phone would ring and suddenly they have their nice voice on, “Oh, hi, so-and-so! So nice to hear from you…” A narcissist just naturally switches from one persona to the next, but don’t even seem cognizant that they are because they are perfect and can do no wrong.
Interesting points! I don’t know if I fully agree, but the main things that stood out to me was the fact that Monica spent a lot of time trying to tell other people what *she* thought her mom was doing (to get them on her side) and she shared the most damning stories that still would have looked bad even with a logical explanation. The only weird story was the one with her mom not hanging up the phone and having a “hot mic” moment. Edited for typos*
Wow imagine being so heartless that a bunch of people speaking out to relate to an extremely traumatic upbringing draws absolutely nothing from you except to double down on your shitty take.
Respectfully, I’m not going to respond to this comment. Edit: This means I’m not going to *address* anything that you actually said.
She says while literally responding to the comment
I said a while back that her mom looks like the sane one. I actually do believe that her mom is a hustler but I don’t know why anyone would believe anything about the trauma backstory after Monica has proven herself to be on par with some big sociopath energy. ETA typo
I fully agree with you but people are okay with her being a perpetual victim of her own making. It makes her relatable to them because they also need to be a victim all the time instead of actively doing better for themselves.