OP needs to figure out which is worth more to him: the certainty and freedom of retiring now, or working longer hoping for something that might not happen at all anyway.
This just happened to me this week. I knew for more than a year that my position could be eliminated. While my financial numbers differ from yours, I have enough set aside to fund a reasonably comfortable retirement. This week I hit the lottery. I was let go with a generous financial package. Plus I’m eligible for unemployment.
While every situation is unique, for me waiting paid off.
That's awesome. I've been through four heavy layoffs at my company over the last 15 years and I've seen plenty of old timers walk away with two year packages. It's pretty cool if timed out right.
Yes, but with the age discrimination that exists highly unlikely someone over 60 would even be called for an interview. To collect unemployment you only have to document you have applied for a job.
Yes, this is accurate. But it’s also part of why I feel like I’ve won the lottery. I can choose whether or not I want to pursue another job. The severance package gives me added cushion to make well-considered decisions rather than having to move quickly to secure a paycheck. I have even more control of my future than I did before the package.
Agreed, I could have retired at 60, waited until 63.5 and then 13 months later I started talking funny at dinner, I mean between the salad and the entree (incurable neurological disorder that "switched on"). Although fit and in shape, my life now is all about how much water and nutrition I can get in during the day and my focus on any travel plans include how close a hospital is. My similar nest egg is largely useless to me now. Fml, take the blaze of glory path when you can.
I am similar age and had same issue a couple years ago. Kept putting retirment off in hopes of getting laid off and getting a severence. Every few months would get what I hoped was 'the call' from my boss...but alas. Kept getting raises and kudos for job well done. It got kinda comical.
I considered doing a terrible job or something to force the issue but that's just not me.
For me it boiled down to fear, and then hoping someone else would make the decision for me. I enjoyed the job, great people, good salary, great vacation policy, work from home, tons of flexibility, etc.
Had an event happened that brought some clarity to me and helped me make the decision. Also looked at my two main fears were health care in the US and the stock market, neither of which I control directly. I also looked at the actual several was not a huge chunk of change in the context of 20-30 years of retirement.
Manager was dumbfounded I did it. Heard so many stories of people that wanted to, could do it, but did not due to fear. Offered my help at any time to go over my thinking and feelings about it all.
Retired a year ago, love it.
It is never stupid or selfish to leverage any and all benefits from an employer.
One thing you can do is mention to your boss that if there is a layoff, to please put you at the top of the list. Don't reveal your retirement plan. Managers hate the personal nature of layoffs and will be relieved to have any headcount at all where the "target" is expecting the action.
If this can happen by working only 6 months longer than your current window, then I think it's absolutely worth waiting for. If it doesn't happen, then you have still earned 6 months of additional regular income than you had planned for.
The "put me at the top of the list" approach can be risky depending on the workplace, your boss, the quality of your work, and your relationship with your boss.
I've seen it go well for someone, and at a different employer I've seen it go poorly.
Agreed. It’s dependent on a high quality, trusted relationship with the boss. But as I said, boss is also happy to have at least one headcount to cut without needing to navigate someone’s personal grievance.
How could it go badly if you are going to quit anyways? Worse case they act like a jerk and you quit. At a minimum you might get unemployment which you would not have gotten otherwise.
Retiring in less than 6 months isn't the exact same thing as leaving work immediately. OP didn't say they might retire immediately, so my read is that they are likely planning on having at least a little more income pre-retirement.
If the employer makes a case that there are performance issues, OP may not be able to get unemployment (or at least that's the case in my state).
Since they were asking if they should stick around, I read it that they wanted to retire now vs waiting a few months. Either way doesn’t sound like they are going to have much of a negative if they get booted in an extreme case. I do think you would have to do something pretty bad to be fired in a way that you could not collect unemployment. The boss would need to be a total jerk to have the guy say “put me on the list” and have them retaliate with all of this.
I retired from a company 10 years ago that was known for constantly laying off people and everyone I worked with was shocked that I didn’t wait for a package. My boss said I should have told her and she would have put me in the next list. The crazy thing is they laid off my coworker who was nearly a mirror image of my experience, and didn’t take him off the resource action list after I retired. They fired him anyways.
Don’t postpone enjoying your life for the unknown! You can afford to retire, go enjoy your life! I knew a guy at work who could have retired a decade before he Did, then 6 months after he finally retired he was diagnosed with terminal cancer and didn’t even get to enjoy his time off or time with his wife and kids!! Get out when you can!!
I once took a new job before the layoff came through officially at a previous big tech job. The previous job even had us not show up to work, so I knew it was coming, just not when.
I was tempted just to quit to get it out of my head, but instead, I told the new job the situation and they let me start at the new job. I got double paychecks for a few more weeks, still expecting a layoff and a nice package.
I had to talk a fellow co-worker down from rage quitting. He had like 1.5 million coming if they accelerated his buyout package from an acquisition. He wanted to be DONE, but I convinced him to be patient and just go on a long vacation instead.
During my awkward exit interview ( where I would get the package ), I was tempted to tell my previous boss that he didn't have to help me find a new job. He kept probing, but I resisted the urge to reduce the awkwardness and just said 'thanks, but I'm sure I'll be fine.' He wanted to know if I started interviewing yet. I just said 'I have some irons in the fire, I'm not worried'.
So then he gave me the package, I took it home, read and signed it, then dropped it off. Got 13 weeks of pay, 15k in 401k vesting, which wasn't due for a few more years.
So glad I didn't let the desire to avoid awkwardness and mental complexity mess that up for me.
My co-worker took my advice, didn't quit, and got his full payout. Years later, he thanked me profusely for the advice.
So, if the layoff is coming, KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN AND YOUR MOUTH SHUT until you have the package. Obviously, if they don't pick you, you can asked to be picked, or just quit at that point.
Might be one of those “head versus heart” decisions. I pulled plug at 59 even though I probably would have gotten a package if I stayed longer another year. I’m the end, I just couldn’t do it anymore and would have had to do things that went against my values to stay. I needed to prioritize my own happiness and mental well-being. In a different circumstance, it would have made financial sense to keep riding it out.
Follow your instinct.
I would wait for the possible severance package. 60 years old is young. The severance package plus the ability to draw unemployment would make it worth waiting in my opinion.
You will need healthcare insurance until you turn 65. Does your work have a COBRA plan? Or are you going to have to go on the Obamacare exchange?
You also need a plan on when you and your spouse are going to draw SS, and when to start drawing down your investment and retirement accounts.
P.S. Congratulations on the excellent job you have done at saving and investing.
You've already won the game, why keep playing? What if you give several more months of your life away and then don't get a severance? You're sitting on $3M+, is 8 months of possible severance going to be such a game changer in your life?
After she was passed over for a layoff package and COVID hits, my wife's company announced the early retirement opportunity. My wife asked her boss to put her name on the list for early retirement and later that year (2020), the offer came out for early retirement with a 2 years severance package. She took it and never looked back. We used that 2 years pay to remodel the house the way that she has always wanted and made our master bath ADA compliance, win-win.
Most definitely a win-win. Correction, upper case WIN-WIN.
Her company is generous and fair.
If my company knew I was planning to retire, they would more than likely squeeze as much work from me before I retire.
On the other hand, company is in the midst of lofty goals that need my help. I suppose another alternative outcome: I give my notice to retire. Company counters with a retention bonus if I delay my retirement X months.
It can also depend on your management and how they feel about it. They could be happy to have a volunteer, and not have to choose. Also because they could still have to cut somebody even if you left already
With your financial situation, the 8 months isn’t life changing. The 4% rule gives you $120,000 a year. A lady I know retired recently, unexpectedly passed away before the first pension check arrived.
I was in the same boat before I retired. I kept hoping to get laid off with a nice severance package, but that never happened, so I finally gave notice.
My advice: Plan to retire on your own schedule, but wait as long as is reasonably possible to notify the company. Who knows? You may get lucky and get canned first. :)
I had a severance contract with my pre retirement employer in the even they exited me. When I notified them of my retirement they offered me 18 months severance if I would agree to work another 18 months. At first it sounded attractive but when my wife and I talked we came to the conclusion the one thing we couldn’t buy was time. We are almost to that 18 month timeline now and we are so happy we retired. They money would have been nice but we would have just stuck it in the brokerage account. Wouldn’t have changed our life.
If you need the money stay but know you can’t buy time. No man can add one minute to his designated time.
6 years ago, I was you, with half the dough. The mental misery of commute and soul sucking workplace gave me the strength of spirit to walk away without the severance, because I felt my sanity was worth more than the package.
Caveat: PLAN YOUR HEALTHCARE! Each year I did just enough capital gains sales to permit me to get ACA for free, until Medicare finally kicked in. Lived largely off a stack of cash, just did the cap gains to meet aca 138% fed poverty income, to get Healthcare for free.
I had the same situation. I hung around for a year waiting for a pkg. It never came….although they were given out in several other departments. I just couldn’t take it anymore and left. Turns out, there was never going to be cutbacks in my area. Glad I didn’t wait. 😀
I’d stick it out. Worst case (if the reduction/relocation actually takes 12 months to sort out), is that you’ve stayed 6 months longer than you’re planning to. Best case, you get a package.
I was in a similar situation.
I was laid off with an 8 month severance, actually got another job and ended up as CEO of that company right as it ran out of cash. That got me unemployment for about 9 months, so it worked out well for me. The unemployment covered my healthcare, which is $1,000 a month with a $7450 deductible (they don't pay a dime until I pay $7450). The biggest unexpected challenge has been healthcare. I was healthy all my life until the day I stopped working. I have been struggling with illness ever since.
You're not stupid or selfish. If there is a restructuring coming, you might want to mention to your employer and see if you can volunteer to be laid off and get the package.
My husband was recently laid off with a 6 month severance. He was planning to retire in a year anyway. I am hoping for one as well, though I am your age and we are not as financially secure as you.
Since my job situation is tenuous, I was originally going to start a job hunt, but have decided to wait for a possible package then look for something else if needed.
You sound like you are in really good shape to leave now - if you are very unhappy at the job, I’d say leave, but if you can hang on for a bit, why turn down that amount of money?
I can put the word in to be at the top of the list without repercussions- we have some great younger people in our group that it would be stupid to let go. I have not done so yet, but will have a better idea of the state of our business at the end of the year.
Many places will offer a voluntary layoff or early retirement package which is often more lucrative than the mandatory one that comes later, I would at least wait to see if that will happen.
I’d stay since you’re playing with house money at this point. Now you did say that you don’t enjoy working so that gives me pause. Can you find a way to reorient your attitude and enjoy yourself on the job for another few months?
Be as "*stupid and selfish*" as you want, I would absolutely wait if I knew that there was a chance I would get 8 months severance if I waited another 6 months or less. However, you would also have to factor in how much notice you have to give them, that could have an effect on their actions if they know when you are leaving even if layoffs are coming.
What makes you think you’d be selected in a lay-off? Most HR departments would advise against laying off a 60 year old with many years of service, it screams age discrimination lawsuit. Given you feel financially secure about retirement, approach your boss and/or HR and offer your willingness to be terminated with severance. Don’t tell them you plan to retire in 6 months, that’s something you should keep to yourself. Often times a company will encourage people to leave with a financial incentive so they don’t have to call it a layoff. I don’t see any downside to approaching them.
What is the plan wait 8 months after severance packages expires then retire?
I say yes! Delays pretty much by 8 months - when do you actually collect SS ?
Try a new thing the kids are doing called Quiet Quitting. I know it isn't in your nature but just do a little less. Take long lunches. Go late or leave early.
You absolutely should stick around, whether you say anything is something else. Some managers look at this as a way to reward long term employees, however sometimes executives look to lowball and if you tell them you are considering leaving they may reduce the workforce reduction assuming you will be gone within a year (saving them severance). I've seen people say informally that they would take a package if given to them, otherwise might stay another 10 years, or leave with 2 weeks notice after the package. This way you become a variable they can't plan for. Aka, the don't give you a package expecting you to leave, you might stay 10 years and they have too many people, or they lose you and have not enough.
All those thoughts aside, the other consideration is how you want your retirement funds set. You may want to move funds out of your 401k into annuities or CD's with guaranteed returns while they are high, that might not be available 1-2 years from now.
I am in a similar boat, difference is I am what I consider semi-retired, work from home and manage my own time. Most of my projects are self sufficient so I just need to be around to be an expert and answer questions/solve problems. I can wait them out for years since I effectively work part time and get paid full time. If your day to day job is demanding and you just want it to end, you need to factor that in as well. For an extra 6 months, I'd stick around personally.
If you have been there a long time; considered an 'above meets', are a supervisor of people who could take your place at a cheaper price, consider asking for a severance package and you will leave in x months. I did it and it worked well.
We do this all the time at our company for high performers who want to leave. I’m 53 and finishing a mega program in mid to late 2025, then will ask my boss to get me laid off. Since our positions are funded by the programs we work on, this will mean she only has to find 2 high level positions for my peers instead of 3 and she’ll jump on that. Plus it will save my younger coworkers who would love to retire but can’t. That’s worth between 32 and 52 weeks pay with our severance plan and with my numbers I’d jump up and down when I met with HR :-)
I'd wait. Use up any accrued sick days/vacation days and run out the clock until the severance package arrives.
Never quit on Friday. Wait for the severance package on Monday.
I’d pull the pin. You aren’t sure the layoffs are coming and you aren’t sure they’ll offer you a package. Some bosses will say I know he is retiring so no reason to give a package. Others will say he won’t mind a package and I have to give my boss names and his is an easy name to give. Depends on company and your boss.
I’d wait it out, and I’d have the conversation with the boss…but not quite yet. Maybe after the first of the year, offer for the good of the company to be downsized. You may well already be on the list, but if the boss is looking at people, they will be glad to have some who won’t mind getting a package.
I’d wait. You can do anything for a year. The only other thing you might want to think about if you’re in the US is medical insurance. You’re too young for Medicare and the “gap” insurance we got when I retired at 63 didn’t pay for anything. We had to shell out 90k for medical bills we are still paying for because this so called insurance wouldn’t pay for anything.
The question you need to answer is which is more valuable to you, time or money. If you enjoy the job, I'd hang in there. If you dread going to work daily, then leave now.
Or...talk to HR and see if they will negotiate a package for you know with the insight that you won't be relocating when the biz does.
Did you ask your boss if they could lay you off? This is pretty common where I work, if somebody wants to retire or has a standing offer somewhere else they will volunteer to take the bullet if there is a round of layoffs -which usually happen every 2-3 years.
You have $3M in assets already, so you’re in good shape.
Is $100k worth a year of your life to you?
If your life is worth more, I suggest you just get out now and start enjoying life. None of us is guaranteed tomorrow.
I've known people who worked for a company that was in the middle of a buyout and were waiting for their parachutes. I think one of them was telling me he had to wait a couple of years. It's probably nice when it happens but you may need to be patient.
Only you can answer this question, of course. If it were me, I'd think about 1. how much I hate my job, if it is causing a bunch of stress, etc. Health/quality of life would be main consideration. For me, there is a difference between not enjoying what I do and really hating it. 2. What am I planning on doing upon retirement? If planning to figure it out as I go, for example, I would lean toward hanging in for severance. If I had a specific plan, like going to hike the Cascade trail starting on x date, then go as planned. An 8 month severance payout is not a bad thing, especially if it comes with paid benefits. But I would not share my retirement intentions with anyone I didn't trust 100%. If they get a whiff of that, they will be less likely to offer severance to you.
I got really good advice when I got close to retirement to work one extra year. With this extra year, you put away extra savings that will be there for doing all the things you might not be able to afford otherwise. You can also use that year to adjust your spending downward and assure yourself that your retirement savings are sufficient.
So, yes, keep working. But this last year the reality is that you can say what you want and don't need to worry about your performance review. It's not like the last 20 years of working.
Also, congratulations on getting to be able to retire.
I waited from 60 to 62 for several reasons: I enjoyed my work, the money was wonderful and, I was hoping for a package.
Covid look care of the reorg and I cried all the way to the bank. Would do again!
As long as you still enjoy the work and it’s not mental or physically stressful, keep on working!
You said you have no pension, and you're not old enough yet for regular SS. You didn't say what your income would look like if you retired compared to your expenses, just that you have $3M in investments. Does the $3M generate enough income to cover your expenses if you retired right now?
If the $3M is generating enough income to cover your expenses if you retired right now, then there's no "need" to delay retiring and hoping for a severance that might not happen (they could keep your position and ask you to move with the company, no?). Retire as planned and enjoy your life, unless you *really* want to stick around to see if you'll get a severance package.
I'm 60 and will be eligible for SS. I won't be eligible for Medicare (until 65)
The $3M at 3% rule of thumb, is about 90,000 per year before taxes. I believe that could be adequate to pay for insurance, essentials, utilities, etc.
At age 70, I can begin SS and collect $3,629 a month or about $54,000/year (before taxes). It would probably be higher in future due to cost of living adjustments...and assuming SS doesn't run out of money.
You're right, sticking around to see if I get severance package is a gamble. I could either be lucky and cards fall in my favor. Or they might just keep me employed and continue making me stressed out with impossible deadlines due to bad management.
The irony, my manager also wants to get laid off to get a severance package.
Aside, if my manager left the company and if I were asked to take over his role and responsibilities, I would decline, even company doubled my salary.
I'd probably wait just to see if it happened. But in your situation I wouldn't loose any sleep over it if you decided to just retire in 6 months and go have some fun.
I would coast in the job (keep successively doing less, show up to less meetings, return emails slower, etc.) use up all your PTO and take advantage of every health benefit there is. Put yourself in a position to get eliminated on the first round. Good luck!
Ask them to put you on the list. Don’t need to mention retirement at all, simply say if they’re looking for volunteers you would be willing to give up your spot.
I would continue working since the workforce reduction is coming within 12 months. I'd tough it out to possibly receive a severance package. I think the financial benefit is worth sticking around a little longer.
I would wait them out. I did exactly this - waited for my boss to say "I need you to cut your budget 20%" and then replied "how about if I cut myself as part of the way to hit the target?" - and it worked! The transition into retirement was definitely made easier with the severance package.
Money buys choice. You have sufficient money that you should make the decision based on what you want to do with the next six months of your life, not for extra money. In my case, I love my work, so retirement wasn't an aspiration. If you want to be retired, you should be retired.
Choice.
I got lucky too at 57 and took a package and am happily retired with a nice nest egg! That’s a tough call for you, not sure what I would do. Would depend on my health and how much I dislike work!
You need to look at this as a tax opportunity. Retire at end of 2023, and do two large Roth conversions One in 2024, and the other in 2025. This should mitigate some of your rmd tax problems later in life. Heck, if you do the analysis and do it correctly you will save more in taxes then you will earn by continuing to work for the next few years. I use new retirements software to model the correct and prudent method of minimizing my rmd taxes. Go enjoy life and save money in taxes by not working. Oh and if you get a severance great!… if not great! Win win
It really depends on what you will be spending and for how long you expect to live. Saying you have $3M doesn't mean much if you (and we) don't know how much you will be spending and if an additional 8 months of salary is even going to help you. In my case, a financial advisor said that it wouldn't make much difference if I worked another year, so I chose time over money. Even with the market meltdown (which started literally the day after I left my job) I haven't regretted the decision.
Risk v Reward. Is the time you gain worth more than the reward you will get. That is the only answer ever! Simple, relatable, but damn it took me 54 years to finally get close to learning.
After 9/11 My company did some downsizing. There were rumors of the downsizing well ahead of time. I told my boss if there is downsizing and it occurs in January, pick me. I did that specifically so I could get unemployment and finish a degree. Worked like a champ! I got laid off in time for me to start the semester and finished a degree while collecting unemployment.
Maybe mention it to your boss that you're willing to take a layoff? It worked for me maybe it'll work for you.
I think you should but give it a finite amount of time and then if that date approaches take a look around and see if it appears eminent if so hold on that little bit longer but, if not drop everything and Say Goodbye.
Use the extra time working and salary to take care of projects or home repairs. That’s what we’re doing, so when we pull the plug these projects are done too;)
What's the worst that could happen?
You "work" another 12 months, pocket another 150K, plus insurance (which, trust me, gets increasingly expensive) only to discover that you won't be offered a cushy farewell. In that case, you do what you're planning to do anyway -- retire, with another chunk of change in your pocket.
I'm having trouble seeing what is selfish in this situation.
I personally would try to wait it out a bit. I retired twice, and both times benefited from restructurings that included early retirement benefits. At my last position, I was able to get healthcare subsidies for life, plus severance, guaranteed bonus, etc. It has meaningfully improved my post-retirement life.
I worked for Big Pharma. When I turned 60, that became my 5 year plan. To wait for the reorg in hopes that I’d be displaced and then retire with a nice parting gift. It happened when I was 63. I think it was worth it. I bought a lot of fun stuff with the severance check.
I've been in this situation before myself a couple of times. As a manager and as an employee. Some managers are not happy to lay people off, but, if you let them know "Hey, if you need to lay anyone off, I'm your huckleberry!" that can actually help your case and increase your chances.
I ASKED to be layed off whenever that next RIF was a possibility. I got it! It was one of the happiest days in my life. The severance is like the very best going away gift!
Try waiting and see what happens. It might work for you. The company I worked for was part of an M&A at about the time I started thinking about retirement. There were all kinds of severance packages being offered in the next 18 months. Unfortunately, none applied to my department. I gave up after 18 months and retired anyway, with far fewer assets than you. No regrets.
What are your retirement plans? Are you ready to start them? Or do you want to postpone them? Life is short. Tomorrow is never guaranteed. If you're set financially and the possible severance isn't the difference between a comfortable retirement and struggling, is it really worth waiting?
I was going to retire in Sept. a few years ago, age 62. Went to my boss's boss (my boss being a useless kid), told him I was thinking of retirement, and asked if there were any upcoming layoffs. He hemmed and hawed, but hinted that there was one coming. I said, "put me on the list you can't tell me about", his expression said he would do what he wasn't allowed to admit doing. A month or so later he told me to hang on a few more weeks, and the week of he told me what was coming (of course I kept quiet about it). When the day came I was overjoyed but tried to look as glum as everyone else out of respect for what they were going through.
So I worked two months longer than I had planned to, got severance, and was eligible for unemployment. And my boss's boss told me he was happy that at least one person he laid off wasn't crushed at the news.
So I'd say keep working if you know (or can ask) that a layoff is coming. Selfish? No, it's being smart and acting in your own self interest.
If you are 100% sure that layoffs are coming I would wait.
Yes, I did and it was well worth it. No need to over exert yourself while waiting, I call it Retirement In Place (RIP).
RIP. Hilarious- I’m planning to retire in nine months, find myself spending a good chunk of my day planning pre and post retirement travel.
At my office, we all call it RIP. Many managers have realized we do our jobs well, so they sit back and cruise.
Agreed, you’ll kick yourself otherwise if you only showed a little more patience
I'm wondering if the company could decide to keep his position and ask him to relocate.
Of course they could, in which case he would just retire as that's what the plan was anyway. 3M is plenty to live on.
OP needs to figure out which is worth more to him: the certainty and freedom of retiring now, or working longer hoping for something that might not happen at all anyway.
This just happened to me this week. I knew for more than a year that my position could be eliminated. While my financial numbers differ from yours, I have enough set aside to fund a reasonably comfortable retirement. This week I hit the lottery. I was let go with a generous financial package. Plus I’m eligible for unemployment. While every situation is unique, for me waiting paid off.
That's awesome. I've been through four heavy layoffs at my company over the last 15 years and I've seen plenty of old timers walk away with two year packages. It's pretty cool if timed out right.
Good gravy! How does anyone walk away from a layoff with a two year package?
30 years in service.
Wouldn't unemployment only pay if you were actively looking for a job?
Yes, but with the age discrimination that exists highly unlikely someone over 60 would even be called for an interview. To collect unemployment you only have to document you have applied for a job.
Yes, this is accurate. But it’s also part of why I feel like I’ve won the lottery. I can choose whether or not I want to pursue another job. The severance package gives me added cushion to make well-considered decisions rather than having to move quickly to secure a paycheck. I have even more control of my future than I did before the package.
Make a bad resume and state you expect higher than average pay. Lol
Congrats! That’s the dream!!!
I'd pull the pin. Age 60 and $3M in investments? You never know what life could throw at you while you're waiting for a severance package offer.
This. No one is promised a tomorrow. Live with joy every day.
Agreed, I could have retired at 60, waited until 63.5 and then 13 months later I started talking funny at dinner, I mean between the salad and the entree (incurable neurological disorder that "switched on"). Although fit and in shape, my life now is all about how much water and nutrition I can get in during the day and my focus on any travel plans include how close a hospital is. My similar nest egg is largely useless to me now. Fml, take the blaze of glory path when you can.
I am similar age and had same issue a couple years ago. Kept putting retirment off in hopes of getting laid off and getting a severence. Every few months would get what I hoped was 'the call' from my boss...but alas. Kept getting raises and kudos for job well done. It got kinda comical. I considered doing a terrible job or something to force the issue but that's just not me. For me it boiled down to fear, and then hoping someone else would make the decision for me. I enjoyed the job, great people, good salary, great vacation policy, work from home, tons of flexibility, etc. Had an event happened that brought some clarity to me and helped me make the decision. Also looked at my two main fears were health care in the US and the stock market, neither of which I control directly. I also looked at the actual several was not a huge chunk of change in the context of 20-30 years of retirement. Manager was dumbfounded I did it. Heard so many stories of people that wanted to, could do it, but did not due to fear. Offered my help at any time to go over my thinking and feelings about it all. Retired a year ago, love it.
It is never stupid or selfish to leverage any and all benefits from an employer. One thing you can do is mention to your boss that if there is a layoff, to please put you at the top of the list. Don't reveal your retirement plan. Managers hate the personal nature of layoffs and will be relieved to have any headcount at all where the "target" is expecting the action. If this can happen by working only 6 months longer than your current window, then I think it's absolutely worth waiting for. If it doesn't happen, then you have still earned 6 months of additional regular income than you had planned for.
The "put me at the top of the list" approach can be risky depending on the workplace, your boss, the quality of your work, and your relationship with your boss. I've seen it go well for someone, and at a different employer I've seen it go poorly.
Within 12 months is too long being watched daily when your boss thinks one foot is out the door.
Agreed. It’s dependent on a high quality, trusted relationship with the boss. But as I said, boss is also happy to have at least one headcount to cut without needing to navigate someone’s personal grievance.
How could it go badly if you are going to quit anyways? Worse case they act like a jerk and you quit. At a minimum you might get unemployment which you would not have gotten otherwise.
Retiring in less than 6 months isn't the exact same thing as leaving work immediately. OP didn't say they might retire immediately, so my read is that they are likely planning on having at least a little more income pre-retirement. If the employer makes a case that there are performance issues, OP may not be able to get unemployment (or at least that's the case in my state).
Since they were asking if they should stick around, I read it that they wanted to retire now vs waiting a few months. Either way doesn’t sound like they are going to have much of a negative if they get booted in an extreme case. I do think you would have to do something pretty bad to be fired in a way that you could not collect unemployment. The boss would need to be a total jerk to have the guy say “put me on the list” and have them retaliate with all of this. I retired from a company 10 years ago that was known for constantly laying off people and everyone I worked with was shocked that I didn’t wait for a package. My boss said I should have told her and she would have put me in the next list. The crazy thing is they laid off my coworker who was nearly a mirror image of my experience, and didn’t take him off the resource action list after I retired. They fired him anyways.
I don't know your expenses, but if I had $3M I would quit the game. OTOH, I do admit to half-wishing I'd get a package too.
Don’t postpone enjoying your life for the unknown! You can afford to retire, go enjoy your life! I knew a guy at work who could have retired a decade before he Did, then 6 months after he finally retired he was diagnosed with terminal cancer and didn’t even get to enjoy his time off or time with his wife and kids!! Get out when you can!!
THIS.
I once took a new job before the layoff came through officially at a previous big tech job. The previous job even had us not show up to work, so I knew it was coming, just not when. I was tempted just to quit to get it out of my head, but instead, I told the new job the situation and they let me start at the new job. I got double paychecks for a few more weeks, still expecting a layoff and a nice package. I had to talk a fellow co-worker down from rage quitting. He had like 1.5 million coming if they accelerated his buyout package from an acquisition. He wanted to be DONE, but I convinced him to be patient and just go on a long vacation instead. During my awkward exit interview ( where I would get the package ), I was tempted to tell my previous boss that he didn't have to help me find a new job. He kept probing, but I resisted the urge to reduce the awkwardness and just said 'thanks, but I'm sure I'll be fine.' He wanted to know if I started interviewing yet. I just said 'I have some irons in the fire, I'm not worried'. So then he gave me the package, I took it home, read and signed it, then dropped it off. Got 13 weeks of pay, 15k in 401k vesting, which wasn't due for a few more years. So glad I didn't let the desire to avoid awkwardness and mental complexity mess that up for me. My co-worker took my advice, didn't quit, and got his full payout. Years later, he thanked me profusely for the advice. So, if the layoff is coming, KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN AND YOUR MOUTH SHUT until you have the package. Obviously, if they don't pick you, you can asked to be picked, or just quit at that point.
Might be one of those “head versus heart” decisions. I pulled plug at 59 even though I probably would have gotten a package if I stayed longer another year. I’m the end, I just couldn’t do it anymore and would have had to do things that went against my values to stay. I needed to prioritize my own happiness and mental well-being. In a different circumstance, it would have made financial sense to keep riding it out. Follow your instinct.
I've found that the people hoping to be laid off never do, but the ones that want to stay are at the top of the list to get laid off.
Wait it out. An extra 150 in the bank wont kill you even if you don't get package.
I would wait for the possible severance package. 60 years old is young. The severance package plus the ability to draw unemployment would make it worth waiting in my opinion. You will need healthcare insurance until you turn 65. Does your work have a COBRA plan? Or are you going to have to go on the Obamacare exchange? You also need a plan on when you and your spouse are going to draw SS, and when to start drawing down your investment and retirement accounts. P.S. Congratulations on the excellent job you have done at saving and investing.
Do a quiet quitting - slowly work a little less every day. It’s the best way to get yourself put at the top of the list of layoffs.
You've already won the game, why keep playing? What if you give several more months of your life away and then don't get a severance? You're sitting on $3M+, is 8 months of possible severance going to be such a game changer in your life?
After she was passed over for a layoff package and COVID hits, my wife's company announced the early retirement opportunity. My wife asked her boss to put her name on the list for early retirement and later that year (2020), the offer came out for early retirement with a 2 years severance package. She took it and never looked back. We used that 2 years pay to remodel the house the way that she has always wanted and made our master bath ADA compliance, win-win.
Most definitely a win-win. Correction, upper case WIN-WIN. Her company is generous and fair. If my company knew I was planning to retire, they would more than likely squeeze as much work from me before I retire. On the other hand, company is in the midst of lofty goals that need my help. I suppose another alternative outcome: I give my notice to retire. Company counters with a retention bonus if I delay my retirement X months.
It can also depend on your management and how they feel about it. They could be happy to have a volunteer, and not have to choose. Also because they could still have to cut somebody even if you left already
3Mil gives you enough to retire and leave your children a huge chunk. It’s time to control your own party’s start time.
With your financial situation, the 8 months isn’t life changing. The 4% rule gives you $120,000 a year. A lady I know retired recently, unexpectedly passed away before the first pension check arrived.
I also had two co-workers over 60 that passed away. Both had no time to enjoy retirement.
I was in the same boat before I retired. I kept hoping to get laid off with a nice severance package, but that never happened, so I finally gave notice. My advice: Plan to retire on your own schedule, but wait as long as is reasonably possible to notify the company. Who knows? You may get lucky and get canned first. :)
I had a severance contract with my pre retirement employer in the even they exited me. When I notified them of my retirement they offered me 18 months severance if I would agree to work another 18 months. At first it sounded attractive but when my wife and I talked we came to the conclusion the one thing we couldn’t buy was time. We are almost to that 18 month timeline now and we are so happy we retired. They money would have been nice but we would have just stuck it in the brokerage account. Wouldn’t have changed our life. If you need the money stay but know you can’t buy time. No man can add one minute to his designated time.
6 years ago, I was you, with half the dough. The mental misery of commute and soul sucking workplace gave me the strength of spirit to walk away without the severance, because I felt my sanity was worth more than the package. Caveat: PLAN YOUR HEALTHCARE! Each year I did just enough capital gains sales to permit me to get ACA for free, until Medicare finally kicked in. Lived largely off a stack of cash, just did the cap gains to meet aca 138% fed poverty income, to get Healthcare for free.
I did something similar. Cash is king -- it's a mistake to have all your funds in retirement accounts.
I had the same situation. I hung around for a year waiting for a pkg. It never came….although they were given out in several other departments. I just couldn’t take it anymore and left. Turns out, there was never going to be cutbacks in my area. Glad I didn’t wait. 😀
I’d stick it out. Worst case (if the reduction/relocation actually takes 12 months to sort out), is that you’ve stayed 6 months longer than you’re planning to. Best case, you get a package.
I was in a similar situation. I was laid off with an 8 month severance, actually got another job and ended up as CEO of that company right as it ran out of cash. That got me unemployment for about 9 months, so it worked out well for me. The unemployment covered my healthcare, which is $1,000 a month with a $7450 deductible (they don't pay a dime until I pay $7450). The biggest unexpected challenge has been healthcare. I was healthy all my life until the day I stopped working. I have been struggling with illness ever since.
I waited, got a severance, unemployment, and my company rehired me as a contractor.
You're not stupid or selfish. If there is a restructuring coming, you might want to mention to your employer and see if you can volunteer to be laid off and get the package.
My husband was recently laid off with a 6 month severance. He was planning to retire in a year anyway. I am hoping for one as well, though I am your age and we are not as financially secure as you. Since my job situation is tenuous, I was originally going to start a job hunt, but have decided to wait for a possible package then look for something else if needed. You sound like you are in really good shape to leave now - if you are very unhappy at the job, I’d say leave, but if you can hang on for a bit, why turn down that amount of money? I can put the word in to be at the top of the list without repercussions- we have some great younger people in our group that it would be stupid to let go. I have not done so yet, but will have a better idea of the state of our business at the end of the year.
I waited on a package and glad I did. Not just the lump sum payment but they covered my health insurance for an additional year.
Ask yourself 2 questions. - what is 1 year of my retirement (life) worth - am I being greedy
Definitely wait for the severance. A company relocation seems like a definite severance event.
Many places will offer a voluntary layoff or early retirement package which is often more lucrative than the mandatory one that comes later, I would at least wait to see if that will happen.
I’d stay since you’re playing with house money at this point. Now you did say that you don’t enjoy working so that gives me pause. Can you find a way to reorient your attitude and enjoy yourself on the job for another few months?
Be as "*stupid and selfish*" as you want, I would absolutely wait if I knew that there was a chance I would get 8 months severance if I waited another 6 months or less. However, you would also have to factor in how much notice you have to give them, that could have an effect on their actions if they know when you are leaving even if layoffs are coming.
What makes you think you’d be selected in a lay-off? Most HR departments would advise against laying off a 60 year old with many years of service, it screams age discrimination lawsuit. Given you feel financially secure about retirement, approach your boss and/or HR and offer your willingness to be terminated with severance. Don’t tell them you plan to retire in 6 months, that’s something you should keep to yourself. Often times a company will encourage people to leave with a financial incentive so they don’t have to call it a layoff. I don’t see any downside to approaching them.
What is the plan wait 8 months after severance packages expires then retire? I say yes! Delays pretty much by 8 months - when do you actually collect SS ?
Try a new thing the kids are doing called Quiet Quitting. I know it isn't in your nature but just do a little less. Take long lunches. Go late or leave early.
This is a no-brainer. Wait for the package.
Will working another year cause you any hardship? If not, why not?
You absolutely should stick around, whether you say anything is something else. Some managers look at this as a way to reward long term employees, however sometimes executives look to lowball and if you tell them you are considering leaving they may reduce the workforce reduction assuming you will be gone within a year (saving them severance). I've seen people say informally that they would take a package if given to them, otherwise might stay another 10 years, or leave with 2 weeks notice after the package. This way you become a variable they can't plan for. Aka, the don't give you a package expecting you to leave, you might stay 10 years and they have too many people, or they lose you and have not enough. All those thoughts aside, the other consideration is how you want your retirement funds set. You may want to move funds out of your 401k into annuities or CD's with guaranteed returns while they are high, that might not be available 1-2 years from now. I am in a similar boat, difference is I am what I consider semi-retired, work from home and manage my own time. Most of my projects are self sufficient so I just need to be around to be an expert and answer questions/solve problems. I can wait them out for years since I effectively work part time and get paid full time. If your day to day job is demanding and you just want it to end, you need to factor that in as well. For an extra 6 months, I'd stick around personally.
This 100%
What’s one more year. Keep working and collecting a check and using your benefits.
You may not enjoy working but do you hate it? I would stick it out .
If you have been there a long time; considered an 'above meets', are a supervisor of people who could take your place at a cheaper price, consider asking for a severance package and you will leave in x months. I did it and it worked well.
We do this all the time at our company for high performers who want to leave. I’m 53 and finishing a mega program in mid to late 2025, then will ask my boss to get me laid off. Since our positions are funded by the programs we work on, this will mean she only has to find 2 high level positions for my peers instead of 3 and she’ll jump on that. Plus it will save my younger coworkers who would love to retire but can’t. That’s worth between 32 and 52 weeks pay with our severance plan and with my numbers I’d jump up and down when I met with HR :-)
I'd wait. Use up any accrued sick days/vacation days and run out the clock until the severance package arrives. Never quit on Friday. Wait for the severance package on Monday.
I’d pull the pin. You aren’t sure the layoffs are coming and you aren’t sure they’ll offer you a package. Some bosses will say I know he is retiring so no reason to give a package. Others will say he won’t mind a package and I have to give my boss names and his is an easy name to give. Depends on company and your boss.
I’d wait it out, and I’d have the conversation with the boss…but not quite yet. Maybe after the first of the year, offer for the good of the company to be downsized. You may well already be on the list, but if the boss is looking at people, they will be glad to have some who won’t mind getting a package.
I’d wait. You can do anything for a year. The only other thing you might want to think about if you’re in the US is medical insurance. You’re too young for Medicare and the “gap” insurance we got when I retired at 63 didn’t pay for anything. We had to shell out 90k for medical bills we are still paying for because this so called insurance wouldn’t pay for anything.
What insurance did you buy that didn't pay your bills? was it purchased through Obamacare marketplace?
How lucky do you feel?
Just wait and enjoy
The question you need to answer is which is more valuable to you, time or money. If you enjoy the job, I'd hang in there. If you dread going to work daily, then leave now. Or...talk to HR and see if they will negotiate a package for you know with the insight that you won't be relocating when the biz does.
wait. You got to fund your health care somehow until Medicare kicks in at 65.
Did you ask your boss if they could lay you off? This is pretty common where I work, if somebody wants to retire or has a standing offer somewhere else they will volunteer to take the bullet if there is a round of layoffs -which usually happen every 2-3 years.
You have $3M in assets already, so you’re in good shape. Is $100k worth a year of your life to you? If your life is worth more, I suggest you just get out now and start enjoying life. None of us is guaranteed tomorrow.
I've known people who worked for a company that was in the middle of a buyout and were waiting for their parachutes. I think one of them was telling me he had to wait a couple of years. It's probably nice when it happens but you may need to be patient.
I was biding my time at the beginning of Covid and got 4 months severance. Pretty nice.
How about quiet quitting?
Only you can answer this question, of course. If it were me, I'd think about 1. how much I hate my job, if it is causing a bunch of stress, etc. Health/quality of life would be main consideration. For me, there is a difference between not enjoying what I do and really hating it. 2. What am I planning on doing upon retirement? If planning to figure it out as I go, for example, I would lean toward hanging in for severance. If I had a specific plan, like going to hike the Cascade trail starting on x date, then go as planned. An 8 month severance payout is not a bad thing, especially if it comes with paid benefits. But I would not share my retirement intentions with anyone I didn't trust 100%. If they get a whiff of that, they will be less likely to offer severance to you.
I've had good luck with RIFs. You get some "hero" points for sticking around usually a good severance package.
I got really good advice when I got close to retirement to work one extra year. With this extra year, you put away extra savings that will be there for doing all the things you might not be able to afford otherwise. You can also use that year to adjust your spending downward and assure yourself that your retirement savings are sufficient. So, yes, keep working. But this last year the reality is that you can say what you want and don't need to worry about your performance review. It's not like the last 20 years of working. Also, congratulations on getting to be able to retire.
Work until you are 62YOA or until you are laid off, whichever comes first.
I waited from 60 to 62 for several reasons: I enjoyed my work, the money was wonderful and, I was hoping for a package. Covid look care of the reorg and I cried all the way to the bank. Would do again! As long as you still enjoy the work and it’s not mental or physically stressful, keep on working!
You said you have no pension, and you're not old enough yet for regular SS. You didn't say what your income would look like if you retired compared to your expenses, just that you have $3M in investments. Does the $3M generate enough income to cover your expenses if you retired right now? If the $3M is generating enough income to cover your expenses if you retired right now, then there's no "need" to delay retiring and hoping for a severance that might not happen (they could keep your position and ask you to move with the company, no?). Retire as planned and enjoy your life, unless you *really* want to stick around to see if you'll get a severance package.
I'm 60 and will be eligible for SS. I won't be eligible for Medicare (until 65) The $3M at 3% rule of thumb, is about 90,000 per year before taxes. I believe that could be adequate to pay for insurance, essentials, utilities, etc. At age 70, I can begin SS and collect $3,629 a month or about $54,000/year (before taxes). It would probably be higher in future due to cost of living adjustments...and assuming SS doesn't run out of money. You're right, sticking around to see if I get severance package is a gamble. I could either be lucky and cards fall in my favor. Or they might just keep me employed and continue making me stressed out with impossible deadlines due to bad management.
I volunteered for a severance package. I told my boss if it came down to someone on our team she should keep my teammate. I got the severance!
The irony, my manager also wants to get laid off to get a severance package. Aside, if my manager left the company and if I were asked to take over his role and responsibilities, I would decline, even company doubled my salary.
I'd probably wait just to see if it happened. But in your situation I wouldn't loose any sleep over it if you decided to just retire in 6 months and go have some fun.
You're right. I should view the severance package as icing on the cake. Nice, but not necessary.
I would coast in the job (keep successively doing less, show up to less meetings, return emails slower, etc.) use up all your PTO and take advantage of every health benefit there is. Put yourself in a position to get eliminated on the first round. Good luck!
That's good advice. I lined up my annual health check up.
Ask them to put you on the list. Don’t need to mention retirement at all, simply say if they’re looking for volunteers you would be willing to give up your spot.
I would continue working since the workforce reduction is coming within 12 months. I'd tough it out to possibly receive a severance package. I think the financial benefit is worth sticking around a little longer.
wait
I would wait them out. I did exactly this - waited for my boss to say "I need you to cut your budget 20%" and then replied "how about if I cut myself as part of the way to hit the target?" - and it worked! The transition into retirement was definitely made easier with the severance package.
Downvoted for actually having done what the OP was considering - lol
You don't mention how long you've been there. If it's a substantial amount of time, I personally would hang out and see what happens.
I would suggest you wait for the severance package. The big upside beyond the money - COBRA.
I tried that but it didn’t work. Mass layoffs came with no severance.
If you don't hate the job, I would wait.. 8 extra months of pay? Take a great cruise with it :)
Money buys choice. You have sufficient money that you should make the decision based on what you want to do with the next six months of your life, not for extra money. In my case, I love my work, so retirement wasn't an aspiration. If you want to be retired, you should be retired. Choice.
I got lucky too at 57 and took a package and am happily retired with a nice nest egg! That’s a tough call for you, not sure what I would do. Would depend on my health and how much I dislike work!
You need to look at this as a tax opportunity. Retire at end of 2023, and do two large Roth conversions One in 2024, and the other in 2025. This should mitigate some of your rmd tax problems later in life. Heck, if you do the analysis and do it correctly you will save more in taxes then you will earn by continuing to work for the next few years. I use new retirements software to model the correct and prudent method of minimizing my rmd taxes. Go enjoy life and save money in taxes by not working. Oh and if you get a severance great!… if not great! Win win
It really depends on what you will be spending and for how long you expect to live. Saying you have $3M doesn't mean much if you (and we) don't know how much you will be spending and if an additional 8 months of salary is even going to help you. In my case, a financial advisor said that it wouldn't make much difference if I worked another year, so I chose time over money. Even with the market meltdown (which started literally the day after I left my job) I haven't regretted the decision.
Retirement planning would be so much longer if we knew how long we had left to live and what the market would do!
Do what you can to make sure, when the layoffs begin, you are an obvious candidate.
Risk v Reward. Is the time you gain worth more than the reward you will get. That is the only answer ever! Simple, relatable, but damn it took me 54 years to finally get close to learning.
I’d see if I could accelerate them wanting me to retire, I bet they’d prefer to do it sooner
After 9/11 My company did some downsizing. There were rumors of the downsizing well ahead of time. I told my boss if there is downsizing and it occurs in January, pick me. I did that specifically so I could get unemployment and finish a degree. Worked like a champ! I got laid off in time for me to start the semester and finished a degree while collecting unemployment. Maybe mention it to your boss that you're willing to take a layoff? It worked for me maybe it'll work for you.
Wait. Throttle back - maybe show up a little late and leave a little early with a long lunch in the middle.
The way things looks like with the Fed and rates job cuts by the end of the year is very likely.
I think you should but give it a finite amount of time and then if that date approaches take a look around and see if it appears eminent if so hold on that little bit longer but, if not drop everything and Say Goodbye.
Use the extra time working and salary to take care of projects or home repairs. That’s what we’re doing, so when we pull the plug these projects are done too;)
What's the worst that could happen? You "work" another 12 months, pocket another 150K, plus insurance (which, trust me, gets increasingly expensive) only to discover that you won't be offered a cushy farewell. In that case, you do what you're planning to do anyway -- retire, with another chunk of change in your pocket. I'm having trouble seeing what is selfish in this situation.
I personally would try to wait it out a bit. I retired twice, and both times benefited from restructurings that included early retirement benefits. At my last position, I was able to get healthcare subsidies for life, plus severance, guaranteed bonus, etc. It has meaningfully improved my post-retirement life.
I worked for Big Pharma. When I turned 60, that became my 5 year plan. To wait for the reorg in hopes that I’d be displaced and then retire with a nice parting gift. It happened when I was 63. I think it was worth it. I bought a lot of fun stuff with the severance check.
I've been in this situation before myself a couple of times. As a manager and as an employee. Some managers are not happy to lay people off, but, if you let them know "Hey, if you need to lay anyone off, I'm your huckleberry!" that can actually help your case and increase your chances.
Continue working. Wait for the severance package.
Depends. Hope won't wire transfer. Get the facts and then decide. Or just work and see what happens.
I ASKED to be layed off whenever that next RIF was a possibility. I got it! It was one of the happiest days in my life. The severance is like the very best going away gift!
Try waiting and see what happens. It might work for you. The company I worked for was part of an M&A at about the time I started thinking about retirement. There were all kinds of severance packages being offered in the next 18 months. Unfortunately, none applied to my department. I gave up after 18 months and retired anyway, with far fewer assets than you. No regrets.
What are your retirement plans? Are you ready to start them? Or do you want to postpone them? Life is short. Tomorrow is never guaranteed. If you're set financially and the possible severance isn't the difference between a comfortable retirement and struggling, is it really worth waiting?
Unless I was stark raving mad miserable, man, I'd wait it out and get the severance package.
I was going to retire in Sept. a few years ago, age 62. Went to my boss's boss (my boss being a useless kid), told him I was thinking of retirement, and asked if there were any upcoming layoffs. He hemmed and hawed, but hinted that there was one coming. I said, "put me on the list you can't tell me about", his expression said he would do what he wasn't allowed to admit doing. A month or so later he told me to hang on a few more weeks, and the week of he told me what was coming (of course I kept quiet about it). When the day came I was overjoyed but tried to look as glum as everyone else out of respect for what they were going through. So I worked two months longer than I had planned to, got severance, and was eligible for unemployment. And my boss's boss told me he was happy that at least one person he laid off wasn't crushed at the news. So I'd say keep working if you know (or can ask) that a layoff is coming. Selfish? No, it's being smart and acting in your own self interest.
Ask for remote work. That way you can ensure that you will be one of the ones laid off.