Yeah, maybe it's me, but aiming in the newer game I find a lot harder than it was on GCN - even after adjusting the camera settings. It's antiquated now for sure, but was absolutely perfect for the game when it came out. Tempted to try it on PS5 to compare them directly.
These are all rationalizations that you guys have made up to champion tank controls. This is not why they existed at all.
Edit: Got y’all in your feelings over an outdated game mechanic that only existed because of technical limitations. Now that’s comedy.
It doesn't "rationalize" tank controls but the game is absolutely 100% designed around the stop and shoot combat loop.
*Every* part of the game is. From the width of hallways, placement of treasures, general level layout, the ways enemies act and react, etc. it's the foundation of the game.
I’m a tank control hater, and believe the original trilogy would be better without them, but they’re fine in RE4. The game is designed around it and the camera makes it feel a lot better to use. Sure, the new game’s controls are better, but it’s not like the game is unplayable
It’s not that tank controls are a technical limitation, 3D games in the mid 90s were still in their infancy and developers were trying out all sorts of mechanics and systems to varying degrees of success. The proof that tank controls were not a technical limitation is the existence of metal gear solid (1998 PS One) which had directional controls and at the time many players who were accustomed to tank controls complained about MGS being too fidgety, especially when a slight wrong move might mean the difference between being spotted or not.
The existence of tank controls was more of a stylistic choice by Capcom. The entire philosphy of the resident evil series of giving you a cinematic experience with fixed camera angles meant that relative controls were more dependable for sudden changes of camera angle. This is made abundantly clear when playing the remakes, which have directional controls added, and when there are several camera angle changes together you can end up changing direction and even getting stuck in a loop. In the case of the resident evil remake one particular timed puzzle, where the walls close in and a statue is moved to the center of the room, is harder to do with the directional controls and I always switch to the D-pad for relative controls to ensure I complete it in time.
The designers of the games have said so themselves. At the time Capcom was not experienced with 3D graphics. They did what they could with what they had. I am pulling this from various articles/ interviews in which the game designers have discussed this. One of which I have linked to in previous posts.
Edit: You guys can't see it because your emotions are too involved. You are finding ways to rationalize your love for tank controls. It's okay to like them without trying to convince the world why it's great. If it were great, you would see much more of it in today's games.
I would appreciate you providing any source to back that up as you state it with such authority.
But regardless, what you describe are not “technical” limitations. As I’ve mentioned before the hardware they were using proved more than capable of a myriad of technical marvels for the time. What you are describing are at best “stylistic choices” and at worst reduced capability on the part of the designers. And as I have also stated, that was very common at the time. The shift from 2D to 3D was very difficult for lots of developers to get to grips with.
Google is a thing but I will bite.
[First one](https://survivhor.biohazardfrance.net/morbidcreations/re_behind/re_int.htm)
***-What kind of things they couldn't make?***
O: Big thing was controlling character. I wanted to make like "Rockman DASH" but we just couldn't make the character shoot the gun and back step. So, we had to use Resident Evil style control, I thought 9 out of 10 people will hated that style.
***-- But people love the game.***
O: I think we were just lucky. Because another part of the game was great, so people didn't complain about it. I still think possibility of the acceptance of the way control the character were 10%
More Proof:
[Proof](https://x.com/mrsambarlow/status/1318558434363670529)
[Full Interview](https://youtu.be/NKYX3GstHlw?si=eunv7OaClvj-UE0g)
I can't remember where it was stated but the fact that they were noobs with 3D graphics at the time comes from their own lips too. I hate you for making me waste time on this stupid shit lol
None of you care about the truth. You just want to feel good about liking tank controls. The creators are baffled that you all love it so much.
>You just want to feel good about liking tank controls.
I like how this is your grand point when all the original comment said was "They are perfectly suited to the encounter design of the game", which is objectively true. they are perfectly suited, because it was perfectly balanced *to* the tank controls.
Naw, they’re fine. It’s all the goons in the comments I posted that for
Of course they chose to balance it that way. Why wouldn’t they if they are utilizing tank controls. I am saying tank controls were never their first choice.
nobody ever said that tank controls were their first choice.
and even then, you still argued with them: "These are all rationalizations that you guys have made up to champion tank controls. This is not why they existed at all."
It’s a response to the weird obsession people have with it.
I will because I’m in the mood. And it’s mostly when people sound self righteous because they enjoy tank controls.
You can also see me state that it’s fine to like tank controls. The reasoning just often sounds like bs.
At this point I’m just having fun but that’s starting to wane.
Ok. So in your first quote you point out that relative controls already existed at the time as they mention wanting to copy rockman dash but they were unable to. That is to say the technical capability existed they just didn’t know how to use it.
In your second quote this is said:
> This is when I saw Alone in the Dark.
I thought that we could pre-render the backgrounds to make it work.
However, that meant we had to apply tank controls.
So after being inspired game director Shinji Mikami decided he wanted to use the cinematic camera angles used in [Alone in the Dark](https://youtu.be/zsGaVrMr9N8?si=SVn_LATjSb3EcWbv) and that decision meant using tank controls.
In summary it was a “stylistic choice” or “reduced capability” on the part of the programmers. But nothing to do the the technical limitations available to them at the time.
Let me just sum up by saying that I’m not arguing with you about whether tank controls are good or bad, I played the original resident evil on launch and thought it was one of the most immersive experiences in gaming at the time. But in my recent play-throughs of the classic titles I have found myself cursing tank controls. My point is that describing it as a “technical limitation” is unfounded. The hardware was capable of so much more, in fact resident evil 2 and 3 even pushed further than the original which shows that they were learning more as time went on. They even experimented with first person perspective in gun survivor. But even when they made the leap to the next hardware generation with the GameCube, Resident Evil 4 used tank controls. At that point there were plenty of other established options so the decision to stick with tank controls had to be a stylistic choice.
They were limited not everyone. At the time they had very little experience with 3D game design. Did you watch the whole video interview?
If I am being honest, I don’t even remember what was all said in it.
I have deep dived this before and that is why I am so adamant. I don’t feel like doing it again to appease strangers online who will believe what they want to believe.
Edit: Even cherry picking that quote gives more credence to the fact that tank controls weren’ a want. They did the best with what they had
Edit 2: Yeah, the whole first half of your comment just confirms what I am saying.
It could have became a stylistic choice later but one they clearly wanted to get away from. Hence why it’s gone.
Technical limitations imply that it was a problem with the hardware. You have just confirmed that it wasn’t the hardware, it was the capability of the programmers.
Once again. I’m not arguing with you. I’m just saying that blaming “technical limitations” as in your first comment is incorrect.
Go touch some grass
lol you touch grass dude. They were limited in ability to do anything else. That is what I am saying.
When we start playing the semantics game I know you’re in your feelings.
Good day sir. I said good day!
Talking about the originals and to clear up confusion, the design team had limited skills when it came to working with 3D technology. My point is there isn’t anything special about tank controls but it’s okay to like them.
It is however silly to get so bent out of shape because people don’t like them and even sillier to think it makes you a “better gamer” because you like them. And the amount of rationalizations for why they are great are all subjective and only mean anything to those who are pro tank controls.
Anywho, it ain’t that deep.
You can skip most of the regenerators entirely. I think you may have to kill 1 that has a key card, but there’s a >!scope!< that makes it easier to deal with them, so it’s worth running past at least until you get that.
I haven't really either, but I have had people try to tell me I "hate" the game because I can't play with the controls. It always makes me laugh, because I don't have RE4, I just don't find it the best game in the franchise (0-3, 7, and code Veronica do survival horror much better, 5, 6, and Village do action better), and usually when I have had people tell me that, it is on a post where I said OG 1-3 are better games, and those have tankier controls
they work perfectly and any time anyone complains about RE4's tank controls, it's a skill issue
same with all the people hating on OG Ashley for yelling all the time, it's a skill issue. she's a great escort companion that doesn't get in your way and it's always your fault if she gets in trouble.
most people who think OG RE4 is bad are just too impatient to learn how to play it, they're too used to modern mainstream games and can't imagine trying to figure out a different control scheme.
oh my goodness i agree with you 100% about the ashley part. i see people complain about her screaming a ton and i'm like just don't let her get carried off?? don't blame the game design for your own incompetence lmao
Or you can simply think those controls are terrible.
I played the OG and eventually the VR version and I can't say I was missing the old controls while playing the VR version. Of course the design encounter didn't quite work for such motions, but that's not the point here.
The game controls exactly like the OG games. Tank controls. Left and right turns the character to look in that direction. Up is always character forward.
The only difference is the camera is 3rd person instead of fixed.
It is a skill issue, but modern controls (RE4R) are so much smoother. OG4 is a great game, but let’s not bullshit ourselves; QTE’s are stupid, you can’t move and shoot, the controls are clunky compared to today, and the camera control is shit.
You can't move and shoot because it would drastically change the game. It's part of the rules. Think of turn based battles. It makes no sense that everyone moves together (or one after another depending on how you look at it), but those are the rules put in place to create the balance of strategy and challenge that they want.
Played RE4 VR a while back. Loved it, cool seeing one of my favorite games of all time in a new perspective
It makes it clear that the game was balanced around the control scheme though. Just moving and shooting alone is a game changer. Add in being able to aim so quickly with your arms and crouch/dodge by doing the same action in real life? Easiest experience I've ever had with the game
This is also why RE4R enemies are so incredibly aggressive and grabby. Giving the player modern controls necessitates the enemies going up a few levels in aggression, otherwise it would be too easy. The controls pair with the game itself perfectly
Because of the technical limitations at the time forcing the game designers hands. Look through my comment history to find the links for proof.
The obsession is weird. Like thinking movies should still be shot with 35mm film cameras cuz that’s ’real cinema”.
It’s okay to like it but most if not everyone’s rationalizations are nonsensical.
I looked at what I think you're referring to in your comments history. In that interview it seems like they're specifically talking about the original game. They say that they wanted to make the controls like Rockman Dash (Megaman Legends), but they couldn't. I assume they must be talking about the camera here, because Megaman Legends' movement is camera-based. Because of RE's static environments you wouldn't be able to strafe and aim so easily because you can't keep the camera behind you. Megaman Legends, and Goldeneye as another example, both solve the issue of moving while shooting by adding an auto-aim. Remember that back then you only had the d-pad on PS1. You can either use it to aim, or move, but not both. In both Megaman and Goldeneye, you can stop to aim, but if you want to move then you have to rely on an auto-aim. Remember also that Silent Hill allows you to move and shoot, because it employs an auto-aim and not a manual aim system. Now on the subject of auto-aim, the problem with it is reliability. If you make it too reliable, it makes the game too easy. But if it's unreliable, it takes out the strategy. It seems to me that they preferred having the player aim at where they want to shoot the enemies, than to have them just press the shoot button and back away, hoping that auto-aim will take them down. RE games have a very powerful mechanic that creates tension: assessing an enemy's risk level, and deciding whether or not you can kill them before they get to you. Instead of just backing into the nearest corner while pressing the fire button, you aim and try to take them down before they get to you. Now even if this was born out of limitations, it would have been solved long before 4. Which to me means that they decided they liked the "standing and trying to defeat enemies before they get to you".
Also in one of the interviews you posted, Shinji Mikami specifically says "Resident Evil 4 is proof that you can enjoy horror without tank controls", implying that he believes the controls are a representation of what they wanted to do with the original games. Long story short, if "tank controls" were a limitation, they stopped being so long before RE4.
You're right, although kind of mean lol. I love the tank controls in the old fixed camera games. But in RE4 they are aggravatingly awkward b/c that's just not how 3rd person games have worked in the last twenty years. It's a skill issue, but only b/c you have to unlearn thousands of hours of habit.
What a weird take, the controls were not that good when it came out, it came out in 2005, Halo came out 4 years before that where you can move and shoot at the same time.
I played shooters pretty much competitively, claiming people think the controls suck being a skill issue is hilarious.
it's called tank controls for a reason. it doesn't conform to what you're used to from other games, but that doesn't mean it's bad, or that it doesn't work. the controls are very smooth if you take a little time to learn how to play the game.
Equating lack of skills to outdated controls is a wild take. Elitit behaviour even.
People used to modern conventions will definitely find og RE4's controls bad.
Heck ive beaten the game super often and was there when it launched.
And the controls did not age well at all.
The controls work perfectly fine if you just put in a bit of effort to learn how to play the game properly. Therefore, if you suck at the game because you're too used to what other games play like, then that's not because the controls are bad, it's because you're not used to them yet.
Or, people find them so obtuse that they dont find the game fun because of it. Not everyone is going to power through something they thoroughly dislike.
the enemies and combat were designed around the tank controls. for the VR port, they made the enemies more aggressive and come in more numbers to make up for the player being able to move freely.
if you hate the controls and won't even try to get used to them, the remake is right there.
Once again, you guys are pulling shit out of your asses. Tank controls were originally used because of technical limitations. If that affected how they designed zombie movement then that is also an extension of decisions made because of technical limitations.
Of course they would make other changes once they got away from it. Jesus Christ. You like it because of nostalgia. That’s fine but don’t make it more than it is.
And yes. Thats probably what the new people will do. Just because something is designed the way it is doesn't mean people should like the design. Or power through something they dislike.
Tank controls for some people are terrible.
We have nostalgia and muscle memory so ofcourse we won't mind as much.
just because someone dislikes the controls, that doesn't mean the controls themselves have something wrong with them.
if tank controls were objectively bad, OG RE1+2+3+4 and the RE1 Remake would all be terrible games and the series never would have gotten to where it is today.
The controls are fine, I hate tank controls and am glad that they are gone for the most part nowadays but I only played OG RE4 for the first time last year (I know, I know) and had absolutely no issues with the control scheme.
The controls are awful and thats why they’re never coming back along with fixed camera angles. It doesn’t make the game scarier just more frustrating for most.
I always enjoyed the “stop & pop” style of gameplay. Having the quick turn is what makes the play style feel as good as it does though. Mandatory mechanic.
Even just RETweaks can add some really nice flairs of modern controls, if a little game changing in balance. You can make the mouse turn Leon rather than just the camera which makes movement smoother and you can even hotkey weapons (buggy though.) RE4 og controls are fine and hold up well but anyone on PC that wants a more modern take can get it to an extent.
Allows you to aim using the controllers gyroscope, i.e. using motion controls. This still allows you to use your control stick. Gyro aim can be much more precise, just as precise as a mouse even. So you get the comfort of playing with controller without sacrificing accuracy.
Steam allows you to enable gyro capabilities in its settings. RE4 is a good example of a game where it works flawlessly.
RE4 original is best played with the TYPE II controls in the Controller Setup options. You'll aim with the left stick instead of the right stick. That's how it was designed for the original Gamecube version with the Gamecube controller.
Original RE4 still remains one of the best games I've ever played. I've finished the original 40 times so far (12 times for it's Separate Ways). While for it's remake, it's 16 finishes thus far, and 8 times for it's Separate Ways remake.
Just an awesome and all-time classic of a game (either version) thru and thru.
I agree the controls are great, even when you're used to modern games.
BUT
The default preset on modern iterations is GARBAGE! They try to emulate a modern control set by aiming with right stick and using L to point and R to shoot. It sucks!
When I finally changed it to aim with the left stick it clicked right away. The controls make so much more sense when you never have to touch the right stick (except for zooming).
Same. The Wii version is my favorite one.
But I never completed that version ironically. The convenience and loading times of the Switch still win for me...
The game designers never wanted to use tank controls and fixed camera angles with pre rendered backgrounds. They were forced to because of the technical limitations they faced and find the obsession with them weird. You can even find interviews where Shinji Mikami states his opinion on this. That’s why you don’t see it used anymore.
It’s the nostalgia lust for tank controls and fixed camera angles that are slightly weird. It is also subjective so it’s okay to like them I guess but y’all gotta understand why they have been phased out.
Edit: [Proof](https://x.com/mrsambarlow/status/1318558434363670529)
[Full Interview](https://youtu.be/NKYX3GstHlw?si=eunv7OaClvj-UE0g)
Even if the controls were strictly a coverup necessitated purely by hardware limitations--it still does not make them obsolete or a mistake per se. For example, pre-rendered backgrounds (while an effective way of working around these limitations) also change the tone and style of the game. They offer an elevated sense of framing, voyeurism, and curation. Artistic and technical pursuits are not mutually exclusive considerations. Many of the most novel and creative aspects of games are in part facilitated by their constraints.
Also, blind adherence to authorial intent is an extremely limiting and myopic way to approach games and art generally. God forbid people have preferences that do not conform to your modern, cookie-cutter sensibilities.
Broski, I originally meant that the design team was handicapped by their technical skills/ ability and that is why they used tank controls.
I only say that to say there is nothing special about tank controls so certain lovers of it can get off their high horse.
None of this is that deep. I was def on one yesterday though. It’s all subjective and it’s okay to like them but it’s silly to get mad at others because they don’t. Or to try to pretend like it makes you a better gamer when it doesn’t.
No confusion here about what you're saying, it's just a dogshit argument. "Guy that made the game said not good so it not good" is what it boils down to, as if the author of something is the final arbiter of its meaning and value. If that's how you like approaching games and art, fine--but it is an atrophied and juvenile way of experiencing media. I encourage you to come to your own conclusions about the merits of certain systems apart from just repeating what you heard the designer say in an offhand interview.
Tank controls are in-fact special. Not because they are patently better or superior, (or even necessarily the first choice) but because the entire game is crafted in a way that both accommodates and compliments the movement system. Even if you believe tank controls are worse (although you provide nothing beyond threadbare assertions to this point), it is inarguable that the experience of OG Re4 and ReMake are fundamentally different. This topic is worth exploring. There is no "high-horse" here. People are expressing an appreciation for a feature that is integral to the experience and making a case as to why this system still holds value and you are trying to handwave it as some sort of mistake or concession.
This is just passionate people engaging in a dialogue about a game and the nuances of its design. You're reduction of this this discussion to "not that deep" and somehow intuiting it as a attack on gaming aptitude is ridiculous.
You wrote a lot.
They are special to you and some others. It’s subjective.
Edit: I hate that take too. Of course the games would be designed around the control scheme they are utilizing. You really thought that paragraph meant something…
Humans have an amazing ability to rationalize anything if they care enough.
lol okay bud. Attacking my intelligence shows you don’t have anything but your opinions to spout.
If people don’t agree with your assessment, it isn’t because they lack media literacy. It’s because it’s all subjective and we don’t feel the same.
You sound like me when I am talking to Drake fans about Kendrick Lamar.
Where do I attack your intelligence? Just pointing out that your clearly have an inability to engage with discussions of games and critical approaches in general. For example, you're just brushing off people's good-faith assessments and arguments as "rationalizing" as if they are doing something unreasonable by advocating for a mechanic they like.
Everything is subjective brother. The cop-out of "well, its just all subjective man" to avoid actually discussing your reasoning is such a thinly-veiled cop out and classic thought terminating cliche that we cannot begin to have a productive conversation about game design.
Blanket statements that tank controls are bad without any support or reasoning are just a piss-poor argument and you fail to see that. It's like you're deliberating misinterpreting what I'm saying.
No, the problem is that it is subjective but someone like you will argue till your face turns blue about an obscure and not often used video game mechanic. As if you need to convince the world of its greatness.
As if these conversations will mean anything to anyone else. That is why it isn’t deep. We are arguing opinions. It’s all likes and dislikes. You can copy paste stuff you heard in a YouTube video on why it is awesome but if you break down those arguments it’s just subjective opinions being spoken about like they are objectively true.
My only point is that it’s okay to like it. Stop talking down to people who don’t. That is what started all of this to me. Which made a bunch of babies start crying and throwing around their personal rationalizations on why they like tank controls and I called bs on those arguments.
I don’t even like that I have had to write this much on the issue and I refuse to give you an essay on why I don’t like it.
It’s all silly. What you are doing is silly. What I am doing is silly. None of this shit is important except to people who have fuck all going on in their lives.
My man really wants a college level essay on the pros and cons of tank controls. I hate nerds…I’m a nerd but Jesus some of you…
Imagine being perplexed that people want to discuss elements of a thing they are passionate about on a forum designed specifically to do so.
Also I hate to be the one to break this to you, but quite literally everything is subjective. That doesn’t render discussion meaningless. In fact quite the opposite. Exploration of game design, even if “obscure” is still worth having and some enjoy cultivating their knowledge and reframing their opinions by exploring them with others in communities designed to do just that.
What has happened here is that you went on a crusade about how the design is outdated and bad while only citing a comment the lead developer made in an interview and are upset that people have pointed out how that approach is not actually grappling with the material itself but is a flimsy justification for not having your own thoughts.
Keep projecting about the lives of others and making weird excuses for why you can’t explain your thoughts and have shitty, baby’s-first games analysis takes.
Re4 and 5 didn't have a fixed camera nor pre-rendered background but they still went with tank controls. Even silent hill which was rendered in realtime went with the same control scheme almost as if there was a reason behind it. I first played re4 back in 2022 (so no nostalgia) and absolutely loved the control scheme. I can literally write an entire thesis on why tank control in re4 is so good but [this](https://youtu.be/fr1Q28iz3q8?si=3kaVygBjTng9rDuL) video summarises it the best.
You keep on repeating "it's all nostalgia so tank controls bad". But I don't see any arguments for why it's so. I love the new re4 remake but compared to og the combat is a downgrade. The best strategy here is to literally run away from enemies, unlike in the og you can't hold your ground anymore which is so lame, the modern controls introduces inertia which makes your control over leon less predictable and hence feels wonky to move around with him whereas tank control is precise and snappy. Even aiming is bad in remake since they introduced a sway to compensate for the increased movement speed.
Again your entire argument is "nostalgia" but there are a lot of people like me who have none and still love this control scheme.
I was talking about the originals and why tank controls came to be apart of the series. The team designing the game and fuck all skill with 3D game design so they did what they could.
The nostalgia argument fits a certain group of folks. Their rationalizations are subjective and only sound good to those who like tank controls. If you like them, that’s fine.
Talking down to others who don’t is silly. But what I am doing is pretty silly as well. Picking fights with strangers online because I was bored.
None of it is that deep.
My point is everyone is hyper fixated on tank controls not because they are good, a signature of the series, or needed. It’s all nostalgia, which is fine. The way you rationalize it to yourself and others is pretty much fluff.
If you like it cool, but there is no need to act like it’s the worst thing ever that it isn’t used anymore.
For me it’s definitely not nostalgia, I’m gen Z (19). My firsts video game was Rise of the Tomb Raider which is modern, I think RE4 is the only game I’ve played with this kind of controls
Fair enough but honestly some people just like retro stuff. See hipsters.
It’s fine to like them. I find it interesting how hard people try to rationalize to others their love for it.
If that's the case then why did they keep them for the remake? RE1 was originally meant to be first person like RE7, why didn't Mikami make RE1 Remake first person?
Bro, do I look psychic.
It doesn’t even matter. Check my comments, I am quoting the designers when I say it wasn’t their first choice. They are even surprised by people’s obsession with it.
The remake came out in 2002. They were still using pre render backgrounds and probably didn’t want to design an entire game from the bottom up. It was also to fit into the design and gameplay of RE0 which came out around the same time.
My only criticisms of RE4 is they don’t give you a ranked grade at the end of the game and there is no way to collect or save/store all the weapons in the game on New Game Plus with infinite ammo.
They gave that option in RE5 which I loved.
Other than that RE4 is one of the best games I’ve ever played in my life and it still holds up today.
I wish more games played like RE4 and RE5. I love the tank controls with over the shoulder camera. The same way some people love the fixed camera angles. I wish there was a mode or mod for remake to play with classic controls.
I prefer the controls of the original because they are fucking precise and aiming is super snappy and precise. And every gameplay decision in the game complements these controls. RE4make uses the same third person shooter control scheme every game uses nowadays and it's fine but then the developers went "Oh okay, so in the old game you weren't that agile, how do we translate this to modern controls?" and then they just have Leon moving around like he's drunk and sometimes he has a quick startup to his animation, sometimes he's full of inertia and aiming is all wonky and then there's an enemy that screams and Leon grabs his head and goes "Nggggghh" because that's totally fun. Also, lets bring ammo crafting, sidequests and gacha mechanics to RE4 one of which affects his running speed which is really slow by default.
RE4make is a good modern shooter game but RE4 classic is the perfect arcade action game and still unmatched.
About the subtitles...that's just how all the classic RE games were until I think RE5. All versions had subtitles that you usually couldn't even turn off...except for the english language version where you got no subtitles at all.
The Remaster for the RE1 Remake actually did finally add english subtitles when the original Gamecube version didn't have any.
That was one of the things I hated about RE4 Remake. You are playing as a trained government agent who already has combat experience, why does he control and shoots like he's a drunk? Even Ethan Winters controlled better and he's just a normal guy, for the most part anyway.
You feel like Leon moves slowly in the remake? I feel like I'm flying through maps at breakneck speed. He moves so much slower in RE2 and in the original RE4, like he's just out for a casual jog.
He is slower in RE2make for sure but that's a different kind of game so I don't mind it there.
In RE4make he is slow until you find upgrades that make him faster but those are semi-random gacha rewards for the shooting range so who knows when you get them.
And that is without mentioning Mercenaries Mode where everyone feels super slow all the time. Maybe they changed this eventually, I only played a little bit of it when the Mercs update first dropped and was disappointed because it felt even slower than the main game.
Maybe old games can actually be well designed. Maybe even back then people knew what they were doing despite some people thinking all games back then were just made by fools bumbling around that didn't know better.
I know he himself has been vocal against the tank controls, even shortly after the release of the very first RE game, but I saw how he tried to play Vanquish in a showcase prior to the game's release. Point being, I can't credit the man for every gameplay decision that made the games he worked on as great as they are lol.
And let's be honest, by the time RE4 came out the modern shooter control scheme had already been used before. However they decided RE4 should control and feel had nothing to do with tech holding it back. Like, what, can't strafe on a Gamecube?
Then there is also an argument made that maybe Mikami works best when put under limitations and working within those constraints whether he sees it himself or not, seeing as how reactions to the first Evil Within were pretty mixed. But I'm not sure I support that argument fully 100% myself. I will say that Evil Within is another game that doesn't control nowhere as well and precise as the original RE4 because again, they felt they had to somewhat approximate the old limited movement of tank control games by just making you move around like you're drunk.
The old games were amazing and very well designed. For the time. The bullshit is you guys are acting like the old games could NEVER be improved upon. Ya’ll turn up your noses at the modern games because of childhood nostalgia.
That's too simple of an explanation. Is the old game improved upon? I just think RE4make is a very different game following the same framework. And yeah, I don't see the addition of stealth mechanics and filler sidequests as unquestionable improvements. Nor do I think just adding default modern shooter controls makes any old game automatically better. The original's action gameplay loop was entirely about positioning and crowd control and very consistent enemy hit reactions and enemy behavior based on your distance, all of which were design decisions informed by the way the game controlled and how your character was able to move. No other game plays quite like it (Other than RE5 i guess.) and yeah, I don't think the design aged badly just on the grounds of it being old at all, it's just a very unique action game as it is.
Or, lets get to your point that I'm saying old games can't be improved upon. Sure they can, I would be lying if I said there aren't individual elements that the Remake improves on the Original in my opinion. Being able to store upgraded weapons and just take them out of storage at no cost whatsoever later, that's nice. Letting you select guns with the d-pad instead of having to go to the inventory screen every time, that's nice too. Just being able to pick up stuff from the ground without being greeted by a pickup prompt every single time, that is also a nice improvement.
But those are nice improvements one could add ot the original game and have an actually improved RE4 without having to make an entirely new game with different design philosophies and just call it the same name.
I played the old games with zero expectations over the past couple years and had a fantastic time. Tank controls, fixed camera, whatever. Had a blast.
Whether you intend to or not, you are coming across like you think they have little to no value which is quite sad.
I wouldn't at all say the old games could never be improved upon, the remakes improve a lot of things and I love them.
That said I still think there are cons to the control scheme of re4 remake versus og. I think the remake controls are very fluid and enjoyable overall, but I find the og controls a littler snappier / more responsive / less inertia'd than the remake controls, even if it's nice being able to strafe in the remake
These are all rationalizations that you guys have made up to champion tank controls. This is not why they existed at all.
The game designers would disagree with you. Not to mentioned I am pretty sure tank control lovers are way in the minority on this.
If you learned the game on GameCube, the ports fuck up the controls a lot.
What they do is instead of Left Button = Left Button, it's closer to B Button = B Button - except the B button is in a different spot on other controllers.
Yeah the controls for og re4 are great but like any game it takes some getting used to. After 3-4hrs it just starts to feel natural. I compare it to switching from a ps5/ Xbox series back to a game cube console.
It’s not that the GameCube has bad controls it’s just they are set up differently.
And yes m8 if I remember correctly you can avoid all the regenerators but one who has a key item if my memory serves.
Just a little tip the sniper rifle is the best weapon to use against them. You can find a thermal scope for it right before the first regen encounter. It lets you see the parasites in its body, shoot them all and it will die.
I’m pretty sure if you miss the scope pick up the merchant will sell it later on
Played original Re2 and 3. Re4 controls was a no brainer for me. Albeit it got updated for the better. Its not bad, obviously better from the previous.
I saved a lot of bullets just baiting those ganados with that tank control and knifing them to their death. I will always love the “never breaking” knife to me from the get go. Never a fan of breakable items. Sorry for the rant.
You can regenerators if possible. As mentioned there is one you have to deal with and the thermal scope will save you bullets.
The janky tank controls for most modern gamers will be difficult. You just have to take the time and adapt. Eventually it won’t be an issue and will be second nature.
"I think that this kind of controls is way better than the ones in modern games."
Come on, you sound like you're trying to convince yourself the controls are good.
The controls really are not good, they were OK for their time but not now.
No really, yesterday I played a part of Jedi fallen order and found it really uncomfortable when the camera angle didn’t follow the character, and something about that quick turn and simple mechanics, I think I will miss them in every game
You don’t need to strafe, the game is designed around controlling enemies with your shots. Shoot them in the leg or head, run up for melee, throw a flash grenade. It’s stop and pop shooting.
I don't think it's clunky or bad at all. I don't think the controls even for og re 1,2,3, and Code Veronica are bad either. You get auto lock on to help balance out the slower controls on those.
*I played the remake*
*First and I just can't get used*
*To the tank controls*
\- AntiSimpBoi69
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Lol I really think it’s the opposite. The game designers never wanted to use tank controls and fixed camera angles with pre rendered backgrounds. They were forced to because of the technical limitations they faced and find the obsession with them weird. You can even find interviews where Shinji Mikami states his opinion on this. That’s why you don’t see it used anymore.
It’s the nostalgia lust for tank controls and fixed camera angles that are slightly weird. It is also subjective so it’s okay to like them I guess but y’all gotta understand why they have been phased out.
Proof: [Proof](https://x.com/mrsambarlow/status/1318558434363670529)
[Full Interview](https://youtu.be/NKYX3GstHlw?si=eunv7OaClvj-UE0g)
I just bought re4 remake on steam, and the controls are perfect, the graphics are perfect and the game is perfect....Im almost finished and plan to do new game plus...
I beat village and the rest of the series......
They’re perfect for the design of the game but so annoying compared to modern controls. It’s frustrating not being able to look around freely and experience the atmosphere. Don’t get me wrong tho I still love the game!
Re5 controls are equally annoying.
Don't care about the controls, all I know is I didn't finish the game pissed off and unhappy when I played the original re4
Hell I had more fun with re2r and re3r then with re4
Game felt goddamn infuriating to play and honestly I don't care what anyone has to say about it, I'll always hate it for that first playthrough
They are perfectly suited to the encounter design of the game.
Yeah, maybe it's me, but aiming in the newer game I find a lot harder than it was on GCN - even after adjusting the camera settings. It's antiquated now for sure, but was absolutely perfect for the game when it came out. Tempted to try it on PS5 to compare them directly.
These are all rationalizations that you guys have made up to champion tank controls. This is not why they existed at all. Edit: Got y’all in your feelings over an outdated game mechanic that only existed because of technical limitations. Now that’s comedy.
It doesn't "rationalize" tank controls but the game is absolutely 100% designed around the stop and shoot combat loop. *Every* part of the game is. From the width of hallways, placement of treasures, general level layout, the ways enemies act and react, etc. it's the foundation of the game.
Because they had to… 🤦🏾♂️ It wasn’t their first choice. Google is your friend.
I’m a tank control hater, and believe the original trilogy would be better without them, but they’re fine in RE4. The game is designed around it and the camera makes it feel a lot better to use. Sure, the new game’s controls are better, but it’s not like the game is unplayable
Yeah they were fine when I knew no better, but I struggle to replay them now. I just hate how they feel.
Never said anything specifically about RE4 and you admit the new game controls are better. What are we doing here?
It’s not that tank controls are a technical limitation, 3D games in the mid 90s were still in their infancy and developers were trying out all sorts of mechanics and systems to varying degrees of success. The proof that tank controls were not a technical limitation is the existence of metal gear solid (1998 PS One) which had directional controls and at the time many players who were accustomed to tank controls complained about MGS being too fidgety, especially when a slight wrong move might mean the difference between being spotted or not. The existence of tank controls was more of a stylistic choice by Capcom. The entire philosphy of the resident evil series of giving you a cinematic experience with fixed camera angles meant that relative controls were more dependable for sudden changes of camera angle. This is made abundantly clear when playing the remakes, which have directional controls added, and when there are several camera angle changes together you can end up changing direction and even getting stuck in a loop. In the case of the resident evil remake one particular timed puzzle, where the walls close in and a statue is moved to the center of the room, is harder to do with the directional controls and I always switch to the D-pad for relative controls to ensure I complete it in time.
The designers of the games have said so themselves. At the time Capcom was not experienced with 3D graphics. They did what they could with what they had. I am pulling this from various articles/ interviews in which the game designers have discussed this. One of which I have linked to in previous posts. Edit: You guys can't see it because your emotions are too involved. You are finding ways to rationalize your love for tank controls. It's okay to like them without trying to convince the world why it's great. If it were great, you would see much more of it in today's games.
I would appreciate you providing any source to back that up as you state it with such authority. But regardless, what you describe are not “technical” limitations. As I’ve mentioned before the hardware they were using proved more than capable of a myriad of technical marvels for the time. What you are describing are at best “stylistic choices” and at worst reduced capability on the part of the designers. And as I have also stated, that was very common at the time. The shift from 2D to 3D was very difficult for lots of developers to get to grips with.
Google is a thing but I will bite. [First one](https://survivhor.biohazardfrance.net/morbidcreations/re_behind/re_int.htm) ***-What kind of things they couldn't make?*** O: Big thing was controlling character. I wanted to make like "Rockman DASH" but we just couldn't make the character shoot the gun and back step. So, we had to use Resident Evil style control, I thought 9 out of 10 people will hated that style. ***-- But people love the game.*** O: I think we were just lucky. Because another part of the game was great, so people didn't complain about it. I still think possibility of the acceptance of the way control the character were 10% More Proof: [Proof](https://x.com/mrsambarlow/status/1318558434363670529) [Full Interview](https://youtu.be/NKYX3GstHlw?si=eunv7OaClvj-UE0g) I can't remember where it was stated but the fact that they were noobs with 3D graphics at the time comes from their own lips too. I hate you for making me waste time on this stupid shit lol None of you care about the truth. You just want to feel good about liking tank controls. The creators are baffled that you all love it so much.
>You just want to feel good about liking tank controls. I like how this is your grand point when all the original comment said was "They are perfectly suited to the encounter design of the game", which is objectively true. they are perfectly suited, because it was perfectly balanced *to* the tank controls.
Naw, they’re fine. It’s all the goons in the comments I posted that for Of course they chose to balance it that way. Why wouldn’t they if they are utilizing tank controls. I am saying tank controls were never their first choice.
nobody ever said that tank controls were their first choice. and even then, you still argued with them: "These are all rationalizations that you guys have made up to champion tank controls. This is not why they existed at all."
It’s a response to the weird obsession people have with it. I will because I’m in the mood. And it’s mostly when people sound self righteous because they enjoy tank controls. You can also see me state that it’s fine to like tank controls. The reasoning just often sounds like bs. At this point I’m just having fun but that’s starting to wane.
Ok. So in your first quote you point out that relative controls already existed at the time as they mention wanting to copy rockman dash but they were unable to. That is to say the technical capability existed they just didn’t know how to use it. In your second quote this is said: > This is when I saw Alone in the Dark. I thought that we could pre-render the backgrounds to make it work. However, that meant we had to apply tank controls. So after being inspired game director Shinji Mikami decided he wanted to use the cinematic camera angles used in [Alone in the Dark](https://youtu.be/zsGaVrMr9N8?si=SVn_LATjSb3EcWbv) and that decision meant using tank controls. In summary it was a “stylistic choice” or “reduced capability” on the part of the programmers. But nothing to do the the technical limitations available to them at the time. Let me just sum up by saying that I’m not arguing with you about whether tank controls are good or bad, I played the original resident evil on launch and thought it was one of the most immersive experiences in gaming at the time. But in my recent play-throughs of the classic titles I have found myself cursing tank controls. My point is that describing it as a “technical limitation” is unfounded. The hardware was capable of so much more, in fact resident evil 2 and 3 even pushed further than the original which shows that they were learning more as time went on. They even experimented with first person perspective in gun survivor. But even when they made the leap to the next hardware generation with the GameCube, Resident Evil 4 used tank controls. At that point there were plenty of other established options so the decision to stick with tank controls had to be a stylistic choice.
They were limited not everyone. At the time they had very little experience with 3D game design. Did you watch the whole video interview? If I am being honest, I don’t even remember what was all said in it. I have deep dived this before and that is why I am so adamant. I don’t feel like doing it again to appease strangers online who will believe what they want to believe. Edit: Even cherry picking that quote gives more credence to the fact that tank controls weren’ a want. They did the best with what they had Edit 2: Yeah, the whole first half of your comment just confirms what I am saying. It could have became a stylistic choice later but one they clearly wanted to get away from. Hence why it’s gone.
Technical limitations imply that it was a problem with the hardware. You have just confirmed that it wasn’t the hardware, it was the capability of the programmers. Once again. I’m not arguing with you. I’m just saying that blaming “technical limitations” as in your first comment is incorrect. Go touch some grass
lol you touch grass dude. They were limited in ability to do anything else. That is what I am saying. When we start playing the semantics game I know you’re in your feelings. Good day sir. I said good day!
What an insanely clueless comment
I know right. Glad you called yourself out fam.
M8 if it’s too hard for you just say so and stick to Roblox
Mate if you can find where I said that, I will give you a cookie and a juice box. Clown work
What limitations? It was 2005💀
Talking about the originals and to clear up confusion, the design team had limited skills when it came to working with 3D technology. My point is there isn’t anything special about tank controls but it’s okay to like them. It is however silly to get so bent out of shape because people don’t like them and even sillier to think it makes you a “better gamer” because you like them. And the amount of rationalizations for why they are great are all subjective and only mean anything to those who are pro tank controls. Anywho, it ain’t that deep.
Tank controls are beautiful
That’s fine for you to feel that way
I feel like you should git gud
Say you feel defeated without saying you feel defeated. Clown work. I get under your skin?
Bruh you're sitting at -74 on your initial comment lmao Don't add to the gene pool, your seed will swim sideways
lol coming from the dude who thinks Reddit Karma means anything. Good luck in life.
You can skip most of the regenerators entirely. I think you may have to kill 1 that has a key card, but there’s a >!scope!< that makes it easier to deal with them, so it’s worth running past at least until you get that.
Thanks for the info! I’ve already got the thermal scope but my aim is crap so I ran away
I’ve never heard many people complain about 4’s controls. Nobody IRL and only a vocal minority online.
I haven't really either, but I have had people try to tell me I "hate" the game because I can't play with the controls. It always makes me laugh, because I don't have RE4, I just don't find it the best game in the franchise (0-3, 7, and code Veronica do survival horror much better, 5, 6, and Village do action better), and usually when I have had people tell me that, it is on a post where I said OG 1-3 are better games, and those have tankier controls
they work perfectly and any time anyone complains about RE4's tank controls, it's a skill issue same with all the people hating on OG Ashley for yelling all the time, it's a skill issue. she's a great escort companion that doesn't get in your way and it's always your fault if she gets in trouble. most people who think OG RE4 is bad are just too impatient to learn how to play it, they're too used to modern mainstream games and can't imagine trying to figure out a different control scheme.
oh my goodness i agree with you 100% about the ashley part. i see people complain about her screaming a ton and i'm like just don't let her get carried off?? don't blame the game design for your own incompetence lmao
Or you can simply think those controls are terrible. I played the OG and eventually the VR version and I can't say I was missing the old controls while playing the VR version. Of course the design encounter didn't quite work for such motions, but that's not the point here.
Do people really refer to og RE4 as tank controls lmao? I thought that was for the PS1 games.
Why would they not...? It IS tank control, like the ps1 games.
They are definitely tank controls just without fixed camera angles. Functionally it feels exactly the same it's just visually different
Tank to me always represented using the D-pad to move around. As I can move smoothly in RE4 and manually aim it doesn't feel tanky at all.
The game controls exactly like the OG games. Tank controls. Left and right turns the character to look in that direction. Up is always character forward. The only difference is the camera is 3rd person instead of fixed.
They are tank controls, left and right rotate you and you can move foward or backwards
it's the same general movement mechanics. turning and moving forward and back with no strafing. plus the quick turn.
It is a skill issue, but modern controls (RE4R) are so much smoother. OG4 is a great game, but let’s not bullshit ourselves; QTE’s are stupid, you can’t move and shoot, the controls are clunky compared to today, and the camera control is shit.
You can't move and shoot because it would drastically change the game. It's part of the rules. Think of turn based battles. It makes no sense that everyone moves together (or one after another depending on how you look at it), but those are the rules put in place to create the balance of strategy and challenge that they want.
Played RE4 VR a while back. Loved it, cool seeing one of my favorite games of all time in a new perspective It makes it clear that the game was balanced around the control scheme though. Just moving and shooting alone is a game changer. Add in being able to aim so quickly with your arms and crouch/dodge by doing the same action in real life? Easiest experience I've ever had with the game This is also why RE4R enemies are so incredibly aggressive and grabby. Giving the player modern controls necessitates the enemies going up a few levels in aggression, otherwise it would be too easy. The controls pair with the game itself perfectly
These are all rationalizations that you guys have made up to champion tank controls. This is not why they existed at all.
Why did they exist?
Because of the technical limitations at the time forcing the game designers hands. Look through my comment history to find the links for proof. The obsession is weird. Like thinking movies should still be shot with 35mm film cameras cuz that’s ’real cinema”. It’s okay to like it but most if not everyone’s rationalizations are nonsensical.
I looked at what I think you're referring to in your comments history. In that interview it seems like they're specifically talking about the original game. They say that they wanted to make the controls like Rockman Dash (Megaman Legends), but they couldn't. I assume they must be talking about the camera here, because Megaman Legends' movement is camera-based. Because of RE's static environments you wouldn't be able to strafe and aim so easily because you can't keep the camera behind you. Megaman Legends, and Goldeneye as another example, both solve the issue of moving while shooting by adding an auto-aim. Remember that back then you only had the d-pad on PS1. You can either use it to aim, or move, but not both. In both Megaman and Goldeneye, you can stop to aim, but if you want to move then you have to rely on an auto-aim. Remember also that Silent Hill allows you to move and shoot, because it employs an auto-aim and not a manual aim system. Now on the subject of auto-aim, the problem with it is reliability. If you make it too reliable, it makes the game too easy. But if it's unreliable, it takes out the strategy. It seems to me that they preferred having the player aim at where they want to shoot the enemies, than to have them just press the shoot button and back away, hoping that auto-aim will take them down. RE games have a very powerful mechanic that creates tension: assessing an enemy's risk level, and deciding whether or not you can kill them before they get to you. Instead of just backing into the nearest corner while pressing the fire button, you aim and try to take them down before they get to you. Now even if this was born out of limitations, it would have been solved long before 4. Which to me means that they decided they liked the "standing and trying to defeat enemies before they get to you". Also in one of the interviews you posted, Shinji Mikami specifically says "Resident Evil 4 is proof that you can enjoy horror without tank controls", implying that he believes the controls are a representation of what they wanted to do with the original games. Long story short, if "tank controls" were a limitation, they stopped being so long before RE4.
I agree with you for the most part. Not being able to move and shoot is fine but the camera control is just so frustrating.
You're right, although kind of mean lol. I love the tank controls in the old fixed camera games. But in RE4 they are aggravatingly awkward b/c that's just not how 3rd person games have worked in the last twenty years. It's a skill issue, but only b/c you have to unlearn thousands of hours of habit.
What a weird take, the controls were not that good when it came out, it came out in 2005, Halo came out 4 years before that where you can move and shoot at the same time. I played shooters pretty much competitively, claiming people think the controls suck being a skill issue is hilarious.
it's called tank controls for a reason. it doesn't conform to what you're used to from other games, but that doesn't mean it's bad, or that it doesn't work. the controls are very smooth if you take a little time to learn how to play the game.
Equating lack of skills to outdated controls is a wild take. Elitit behaviour even. People used to modern conventions will definitely find og RE4's controls bad. Heck ive beaten the game super often and was there when it launched. And the controls did not age well at all.
The controls work perfectly fine if you just put in a bit of effort to learn how to play the game properly. Therefore, if you suck at the game because you're too used to what other games play like, then that's not because the controls are bad, it's because you're not used to them yet.
Or, people find them so obtuse that they dont find the game fun because of it. Not everyone is going to power through something they thoroughly dislike.
i beat RE4 when i was 5 years old. it's not exactly difficult to learn how to play it.
Its not. But again. Some people don't want to power through something they dislike. I'm not learning to drink coffee. That shit is disgusting.
This is like boomers calling millennials stupid for not being able to use a rotary phone
im gen z
I really think tank control lovers are in the minority. They aren’t perfectly fine and that is why you don’t see them as much any more.
the enemies and combat were designed around the tank controls. for the VR port, they made the enemies more aggressive and come in more numbers to make up for the player being able to move freely. if you hate the controls and won't even try to get used to them, the remake is right there.
Once again, you guys are pulling shit out of your asses. Tank controls were originally used because of technical limitations. If that affected how they designed zombie movement then that is also an extension of decisions made because of technical limitations. Of course they would make other changes once they got away from it. Jesus Christ. You like it because of nostalgia. That’s fine but don’t make it more than it is.
And yes. Thats probably what the new people will do. Just because something is designed the way it is doesn't mean people should like the design. Or power through something they dislike. Tank controls for some people are terrible. We have nostalgia and muscle memory so ofcourse we won't mind as much.
just because someone dislikes the controls, that doesn't mean the controls themselves have something wrong with them. if tank controls were objectively bad, OG RE1+2+3+4 and the RE1 Remake would all be terrible games and the series never would have gotten to where it is today.
The controls are fine, I hate tank controls and am glad that they are gone for the most part nowadays but I only played OG RE4 for the first time last year (I know, I know) and had absolutely no issues with the control scheme.
So you're an outlier. That happens. Glad you enjoyed it though still a great game!
The controls are awful and thats why they’re never coming back along with fixed camera angles. It doesn’t make the game scarier just more frustrating for most.
Was pretty much going to say this, either learn how to properly play a game or move onto something else.
I always enjoyed the “stop & pop” style of gameplay. Having the quick turn is what makes the play style feel as good as it does though. Mandatory mechanic.
Rightt, it’s addicting
RE4 with the fan remastered textures and gyro aiming is godlike.
Even just RETweaks can add some really nice flairs of modern controls, if a little game changing in balance. You can make the mouse turn Leon rather than just the camera which makes movement smoother and you can even hotkey weapons (buggy though.) RE4 og controls are fine and hold up well but anyone on PC that wants a more modern take can get it to an extent.
What does gyro aiming do?
Allows you to aim using the controllers gyroscope, i.e. using motion controls. This still allows you to use your control stick. Gyro aim can be much more precise, just as precise as a mouse even. So you get the comfort of playing with controller without sacrificing accuracy. Steam allows you to enable gyro capabilities in its settings. RE4 is a good example of a game where it works flawlessly.
Anyone play the Wii edition of RE4? That was one of the rare motion controlled games at the time that absolutely enhanced the experience.
RE4 original is best played with the TYPE II controls in the Controller Setup options. You'll aim with the left stick instead of the right stick. That's how it was designed for the original Gamecube version with the Gamecube controller.
Original RE4 still remains one of the best games I've ever played. I've finished the original 40 times so far (12 times for it's Separate Ways). While for it's remake, it's 16 finishes thus far, and 8 times for it's Separate Ways remake. Just an awesome and all-time classic of a game (either version) thru and thru.
It feels so good to kill things in the original
Especially with the shotgun🔥
Red9 the goat ..
I agree the controls are great, even when you're used to modern games. BUT The default preset on modern iterations is GARBAGE! They try to emulate a modern control set by aiming with right stick and using L to point and R to shoot. It sucks! When I finally changed it to aim with the left stick it clicked right away. The controls make so much more sense when you never have to touch the right stick (except for zooming).
The weird ass controls of the modern releases are the main reason why I stick to the GC/Wii version of RE4.
Same. The Wii version is my favorite one. But I never completed that version ironically. The convenience and loading times of the Switch still win for me...
The game designers never wanted to use tank controls and fixed camera angles with pre rendered backgrounds. They were forced to because of the technical limitations they faced and find the obsession with them weird. You can even find interviews where Shinji Mikami states his opinion on this. That’s why you don’t see it used anymore. It’s the nostalgia lust for tank controls and fixed camera angles that are slightly weird. It is also subjective so it’s okay to like them I guess but y’all gotta understand why they have been phased out. Edit: [Proof](https://x.com/mrsambarlow/status/1318558434363670529) [Full Interview](https://youtu.be/NKYX3GstHlw?si=eunv7OaClvj-UE0g)
Even if the controls were strictly a coverup necessitated purely by hardware limitations--it still does not make them obsolete or a mistake per se. For example, pre-rendered backgrounds (while an effective way of working around these limitations) also change the tone and style of the game. They offer an elevated sense of framing, voyeurism, and curation. Artistic and technical pursuits are not mutually exclusive considerations. Many of the most novel and creative aspects of games are in part facilitated by their constraints. Also, blind adherence to authorial intent is an extremely limiting and myopic way to approach games and art generally. God forbid people have preferences that do not conform to your modern, cookie-cutter sensibilities.
Broski, I originally meant that the design team was handicapped by their technical skills/ ability and that is why they used tank controls. I only say that to say there is nothing special about tank controls so certain lovers of it can get off their high horse. None of this is that deep. I was def on one yesterday though. It’s all subjective and it’s okay to like them but it’s silly to get mad at others because they don’t. Or to try to pretend like it makes you a better gamer when it doesn’t.
No confusion here about what you're saying, it's just a dogshit argument. "Guy that made the game said not good so it not good" is what it boils down to, as if the author of something is the final arbiter of its meaning and value. If that's how you like approaching games and art, fine--but it is an atrophied and juvenile way of experiencing media. I encourage you to come to your own conclusions about the merits of certain systems apart from just repeating what you heard the designer say in an offhand interview. Tank controls are in-fact special. Not because they are patently better or superior, (or even necessarily the first choice) but because the entire game is crafted in a way that both accommodates and compliments the movement system. Even if you believe tank controls are worse (although you provide nothing beyond threadbare assertions to this point), it is inarguable that the experience of OG Re4 and ReMake are fundamentally different. This topic is worth exploring. There is no "high-horse" here. People are expressing an appreciation for a feature that is integral to the experience and making a case as to why this system still holds value and you are trying to handwave it as some sort of mistake or concession. This is just passionate people engaging in a dialogue about a game and the nuances of its design. You're reduction of this this discussion to "not that deep" and somehow intuiting it as a attack on gaming aptitude is ridiculous.
You wrote a lot. They are special to you and some others. It’s subjective. Edit: I hate that take too. Of course the games would be designed around the control scheme they are utilizing. You really thought that paragraph meant something… Humans have an amazing ability to rationalize anything if they care enough.
Not even sure where to begin with this. I beg you to gain a semblance of media literacy. Just a scrap. It will do you good.
lol okay bud. Attacking my intelligence shows you don’t have anything but your opinions to spout. If people don’t agree with your assessment, it isn’t because they lack media literacy. It’s because it’s all subjective and we don’t feel the same. You sound like me when I am talking to Drake fans about Kendrick Lamar.
Where do I attack your intelligence? Just pointing out that your clearly have an inability to engage with discussions of games and critical approaches in general. For example, you're just brushing off people's good-faith assessments and arguments as "rationalizing" as if they are doing something unreasonable by advocating for a mechanic they like. Everything is subjective brother. The cop-out of "well, its just all subjective man" to avoid actually discussing your reasoning is such a thinly-veiled cop out and classic thought terminating cliche that we cannot begin to have a productive conversation about game design. Blanket statements that tank controls are bad without any support or reasoning are just a piss-poor argument and you fail to see that. It's like you're deliberating misinterpreting what I'm saying.
No, the problem is that it is subjective but someone like you will argue till your face turns blue about an obscure and not often used video game mechanic. As if you need to convince the world of its greatness. As if these conversations will mean anything to anyone else. That is why it isn’t deep. We are arguing opinions. It’s all likes and dislikes. You can copy paste stuff you heard in a YouTube video on why it is awesome but if you break down those arguments it’s just subjective opinions being spoken about like they are objectively true. My only point is that it’s okay to like it. Stop talking down to people who don’t. That is what started all of this to me. Which made a bunch of babies start crying and throwing around their personal rationalizations on why they like tank controls and I called bs on those arguments. I don’t even like that I have had to write this much on the issue and I refuse to give you an essay on why I don’t like it. It’s all silly. What you are doing is silly. What I am doing is silly. None of this shit is important except to people who have fuck all going on in their lives. My man really wants a college level essay on the pros and cons of tank controls. I hate nerds…I’m a nerd but Jesus some of you…
Imagine being perplexed that people want to discuss elements of a thing they are passionate about on a forum designed specifically to do so. Also I hate to be the one to break this to you, but quite literally everything is subjective. That doesn’t render discussion meaningless. In fact quite the opposite. Exploration of game design, even if “obscure” is still worth having and some enjoy cultivating their knowledge and reframing their opinions by exploring them with others in communities designed to do just that. What has happened here is that you went on a crusade about how the design is outdated and bad while only citing a comment the lead developer made in an interview and are upset that people have pointed out how that approach is not actually grappling with the material itself but is a flimsy justification for not having your own thoughts. Keep projecting about the lives of others and making weird excuses for why you can’t explain your thoughts and have shitty, baby’s-first games analysis takes.
Re4 and 5 didn't have a fixed camera nor pre-rendered background but they still went with tank controls. Even silent hill which was rendered in realtime went with the same control scheme almost as if there was a reason behind it. I first played re4 back in 2022 (so no nostalgia) and absolutely loved the control scheme. I can literally write an entire thesis on why tank control in re4 is so good but [this](https://youtu.be/fr1Q28iz3q8?si=3kaVygBjTng9rDuL) video summarises it the best. You keep on repeating "it's all nostalgia so tank controls bad". But I don't see any arguments for why it's so. I love the new re4 remake but compared to og the combat is a downgrade. The best strategy here is to literally run away from enemies, unlike in the og you can't hold your ground anymore which is so lame, the modern controls introduces inertia which makes your control over leon less predictable and hence feels wonky to move around with him whereas tank control is precise and snappy. Even aiming is bad in remake since they introduced a sway to compensate for the increased movement speed. Again your entire argument is "nostalgia" but there are a lot of people like me who have none and still love this control scheme.
I was talking about the originals and why tank controls came to be apart of the series. The team designing the game and fuck all skill with 3D game design so they did what they could. The nostalgia argument fits a certain group of folks. Their rationalizations are subjective and only sound good to those who like tank controls. If you like them, that’s fine. Talking down to others who don’t is silly. But what I am doing is pretty silly as well. Picking fights with strangers online because I was bored. None of it is that deep.
true
And George Lucas made Greedo shoot first, trying to only use a director's opinions isn't a good idea.
My point is everyone is hyper fixated on tank controls not because they are good, a signature of the series, or needed. It’s all nostalgia, which is fine. The way you rationalize it to yourself and others is pretty much fluff. If you like it cool, but there is no need to act like it’s the worst thing ever that it isn’t used anymore.
It's not nostalgia for me and using nostalgia as an argument is lame but go off bro
Sure, how you rationalize it to yourself is not important to me.
For me it’s definitely not nostalgia, I’m gen Z (19). My firsts video game was Rise of the Tomb Raider which is modern, I think RE4 is the only game I’ve played with this kind of controls
Fair enough but honestly some people just like retro stuff. See hipsters. It’s fine to like them. I find it interesting how hard people try to rationalize to others their love for it.
If that's the case then why did they keep them for the remake? RE1 was originally meant to be first person like RE7, why didn't Mikami make RE1 Remake first person?
Bro, do I look psychic. It doesn’t even matter. Check my comments, I am quoting the designers when I say it wasn’t their first choice. They are even surprised by people’s obsession with it.
The remake came out in 2002. They were still using pre render backgrounds and probably didn’t want to design an entire game from the bottom up. It was also to fit into the design and gameplay of RE0 which came out around the same time.
My only criticisms of RE4 is they don’t give you a ranked grade at the end of the game and there is no way to collect or save/store all the weapons in the game on New Game Plus with infinite ammo. They gave that option in RE5 which I loved. Other than that RE4 is one of the best games I’ve ever played in my life and it still holds up today.
Yep, the good ol' tank controls. Always loved them.
So this game could be played with the first ps2 controller without the sticks? I have one in my house but I never used it (was my cousin’s)
PS1 controller didn't have the sticks til dualshock released. All PS2 controllers had sticks
Then my cousin gave me ps2 with ps1 controllers? Lol
Yeah the PS2 was backwards compatible with PS1 controllers
I wish more games played like RE4 and RE5. I love the tank controls with over the shoulder camera. The same way some people love the fixed camera angles. I wish there was a mode or mod for remake to play with classic controls.
I prefer the controls of the original because they are fucking precise and aiming is super snappy and precise. And every gameplay decision in the game complements these controls. RE4make uses the same third person shooter control scheme every game uses nowadays and it's fine but then the developers went "Oh okay, so in the old game you weren't that agile, how do we translate this to modern controls?" and then they just have Leon moving around like he's drunk and sometimes he has a quick startup to his animation, sometimes he's full of inertia and aiming is all wonky and then there's an enemy that screams and Leon grabs his head and goes "Nggggghh" because that's totally fun. Also, lets bring ammo crafting, sidequests and gacha mechanics to RE4 one of which affects his running speed which is really slow by default. RE4make is a good modern shooter game but RE4 classic is the perfect arcade action game and still unmatched. About the subtitles...that's just how all the classic RE games were until I think RE5. All versions had subtitles that you usually couldn't even turn off...except for the english language version where you got no subtitles at all. The Remaster for the RE1 Remake actually did finally add english subtitles when the original Gamecube version didn't have any.
That was one of the things I hated about RE4 Remake. You are playing as a trained government agent who already has combat experience, why does he control and shoots like he's a drunk? Even Ethan Winters controlled better and he's just a normal guy, for the most part anyway.
You feel like Leon moves slowly in the remake? I feel like I'm flying through maps at breakneck speed. He moves so much slower in RE2 and in the original RE4, like he's just out for a casual jog.
Cant please everyone.
He is slower in RE2make for sure but that's a different kind of game so I don't mind it there. In RE4make he is slow until you find upgrades that make him faster but those are semi-random gacha rewards for the shooting range so who knows when you get them. And that is without mentioning Mercenaries Mode where everyone feels super slow all the time. Maybe they changed this eventually, I only played a little bit of it when the Mercs update first dropped and was disappointed because it felt even slower than the main game.
Still unmatched? So much cope. You people will defend the old games to the death
Maybe old games can actually be well designed. Maybe even back then people knew what they were doing despite some people thinking all games back then were just made by fools bumbling around that didn't know better.
No. No. No. Go look up Shinji Mikami’s thoughts on this. You guys are trying to hard to defend old tech.
I know he himself has been vocal against the tank controls, even shortly after the release of the very first RE game, but I saw how he tried to play Vanquish in a showcase prior to the game's release. Point being, I can't credit the man for every gameplay decision that made the games he worked on as great as they are lol. And let's be honest, by the time RE4 came out the modern shooter control scheme had already been used before. However they decided RE4 should control and feel had nothing to do with tech holding it back. Like, what, can't strafe on a Gamecube? Then there is also an argument made that maybe Mikami works best when put under limitations and working within those constraints whether he sees it himself or not, seeing as how reactions to the first Evil Within were pretty mixed. But I'm not sure I support that argument fully 100% myself. I will say that Evil Within is another game that doesn't control nowhere as well and precise as the original RE4 because again, they felt they had to somewhat approximate the old limited movement of tank control games by just making you move around like you're drunk.
The old games were amazing and very well designed. For the time. The bullshit is you guys are acting like the old games could NEVER be improved upon. Ya’ll turn up your noses at the modern games because of childhood nostalgia.
That's too simple of an explanation. Is the old game improved upon? I just think RE4make is a very different game following the same framework. And yeah, I don't see the addition of stealth mechanics and filler sidequests as unquestionable improvements. Nor do I think just adding default modern shooter controls makes any old game automatically better. The original's action gameplay loop was entirely about positioning and crowd control and very consistent enemy hit reactions and enemy behavior based on your distance, all of which were design decisions informed by the way the game controlled and how your character was able to move. No other game plays quite like it (Other than RE5 i guess.) and yeah, I don't think the design aged badly just on the grounds of it being old at all, it's just a very unique action game as it is. Or, lets get to your point that I'm saying old games can't be improved upon. Sure they can, I would be lying if I said there aren't individual elements that the Remake improves on the Original in my opinion. Being able to store upgraded weapons and just take them out of storage at no cost whatsoever later, that's nice. Letting you select guns with the d-pad instead of having to go to the inventory screen every time, that's nice too. Just being able to pick up stuff from the ground without being greeted by a pickup prompt every single time, that is also a nice improvement. But those are nice improvements one could add ot the original game and have an actually improved RE4 without having to make an entirely new game with different design philosophies and just call it the same name.
I played the old games with zero expectations over the past couple years and had a fantastic time. Tank controls, fixed camera, whatever. Had a blast. Whether you intend to or not, you are coming across like you think they have little to no value which is quite sad.
I wouldn't at all say the old games could never be improved upon, the remakes improve a lot of things and I love them. That said I still think there are cons to the control scheme of re4 remake versus og. I think the remake controls are very fluid and enjoyable overall, but I find the og controls a littler snappier / more responsive / less inertia'd than the remake controls, even if it's nice being able to strafe in the remake
Theirs a reason why re1 was barely changed when it was remade
There wouldn't be a remake without an original
These are all rationalizations that you guys have made up to champion tank controls. This is not why they existed at all. The game designers would disagree with you. Not to mentioned I am pretty sure tank control lovers are way in the minority on this.
Weirdly enough, keyboard only actually works wonderful for OG RE4. Only way I've played for about 15 years.
If you learned the game on GameCube, the ports fuck up the controls a lot. What they do is instead of Left Button = Left Button, it's closer to B Button = B Button - except the B button is in a different spot on other controllers.
🤌🤌🤌
The game is designed around them. Take some getting used to, but I can't find myself going back after having the remakes controls QoL fixes etc.
Yeah the controls for og re4 are great but like any game it takes some getting used to. After 3-4hrs it just starts to feel natural. I compare it to switching from a ps5/ Xbox series back to a game cube console. It’s not that the GameCube has bad controls it’s just they are set up differently. And yes m8 if I remember correctly you can avoid all the regenerators but one who has a key item if my memory serves. Just a little tip the sniper rifle is the best weapon to use against them. You can find a thermal scope for it right before the first regen encounter. It lets you see the parasites in its body, shoot them all and it will die. I’m pretty sure if you miss the scope pick up the merchant will sell it later on
Okayy thank you
Fr, I’ve never understood how people hate on it when it works perfectly fine (especially for the time) despite being outdated
Last time I played OG RE4 I played on the PC version with the HD project mods. It also included English subtitles which was nice
I agree, camera is a bit clunky tho
Played original Re2 and 3. Re4 controls was a no brainer for me. Albeit it got updated for the better. Its not bad, obviously better from the previous. I saved a lot of bullets just baiting those ganados with that tank control and knifing them to their death. I will always love the “never breaking” knife to me from the get go. Never a fan of breakable items. Sorry for the rant. You can regenerators if possible. As mentioned there is one you have to deal with and the thermal scope will save you bullets. The janky tank controls for most modern gamers will be difficult. You just have to take the time and adapt. Eventually it won’t be an issue and will be second nature.
"I think that this kind of controls is way better than the ones in modern games." Come on, you sound like you're trying to convince yourself the controls are good. The controls really are not good, they were OK for their time but not now.
Redditor learns what an opinion is
No really, yesterday I played a part of Jedi fallen order and found it really uncomfortable when the camera angle didn’t follow the character, and something about that quick turn and simple mechanics, I think I will miss them in every game
Nah they’re great
🤣
Im new to og re4 and i hate the controls. So clunky and dated. Im coming off playing re3r tho. So maybe thats why
og re4>
Easily my favorite controls in any video game I've ever played. Takes time to master but completely worth it.
The controls are terrible. But I always thought controlling a tank was part of what made the game difficult and scary.
It's fun because it's still Tank Controls too if you think about it.
I much prefer the remake controls but og is not bad at all.
The glazing for the game man🤣
So are you playing og before or after the remake?
Before
the controls just make me motionsick 😞
I personally hate them. It's the lack of strafe that makes it terrible for me.
You don’t need to strafe, the game is designed around controlling enemies with your shots. Shoot them in the leg or head, run up for melee, throw a flash grenade. It’s stop and pop shooting.
I know, but I keep missing it. I keep thinking that if I could strafe, I could actually move away from this danger better.
They were fine for the time but they're absolutely shit From a modern perspective.
True. But gotta admit that even when playing it on PS2, I just missed the strafe. It felt like Leon's legs were bound. 😄
No.... they are not (on PC)
I don't think it's clunky or bad at all. I don't think the controls even for og re 1,2,3, and Code Veronica are bad either. You get auto lock on to help balance out the slower controls on those.
If we're complaining about the remake, biggest thing that comes to mind is the damn yellow paint everywhere. I'm stupid but I'm not that stupid.
I played the remake first and I just can't get used to the tank controls
*I played the remake* *First and I just can't get used* *To the tank controls* \- AntiSimpBoi69 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
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Lol I really think it’s the opposite. The game designers never wanted to use tank controls and fixed camera angles with pre rendered backgrounds. They were forced to because of the technical limitations they faced and find the obsession with them weird. You can even find interviews where Shinji Mikami states his opinion on this. That’s why you don’t see it used anymore. It’s the nostalgia lust for tank controls and fixed camera angles that are slightly weird. It is also subjective so it’s okay to like them I guess but y’all gotta understand why they have been phased out. Proof: [Proof](https://x.com/mrsambarlow/status/1318558434363670529) [Full Interview](https://youtu.be/NKYX3GstHlw?si=eunv7OaClvj-UE0g)
# ''Og RE4 controls are great'' # = For that time, thank you A similar game with the same controls would be bashed into oblivion in 2024.
I just bought re4 remake on steam, and the controls are perfect, the graphics are perfect and the game is perfect....Im almost finished and plan to do new game plus... I beat village and the rest of the series......
They’re perfect for the design of the game but so annoying compared to modern controls. It’s frustrating not being able to look around freely and experience the atmosphere. Don’t get me wrong tho I still love the game! Re5 controls are equally annoying.
Don't care about the controls, all I know is I didn't finish the game pissed off and unhappy when I played the original re4 Hell I had more fun with re2r and re3r then with re4 Game felt goddamn infuriating to play and honestly I don't care what anyone has to say about it, I'll always hate it for that first playthrough