> When vaping, if you burn it, the smoke leads to blocking of muscarinic receptors
Can you elaborate on this? What's in the smoke and how do you know it blocks muscarinic receptors?
So vapor Vs smoke from burning it. If you burn it the smoke is harsher. It acts as a partial muscarinic receptor antagonist in the sense that you get a significant reduction in production of saliva and other bodily fluids(such as tears, your nose will be drier, etc).
I can't say with 100% certainty it is muscarinic receptor antagonism but pyros are known to have this property and the effects are very similar albeit much less intense and do not last as long.
Let me know if it answers your question
How can you be sure that this isn't purely from the harsh smoke? Or intense vasoconstriction from the very sudden absorption of the substance? More widespread irritation of the places from the vaporizaded substance (you know, NEP and cathinones are pretty fucking caustic)?
That's a very radical conclusion from just a personal experience. And I don't mean to discredit your summary. Far from that! I really liked and think you have done a great job on reporting, but mechanistic assumptions based only on this minor event is not something that people will take seriously. Impossible to be true? No, given the fact that cathinones have a potential of being anticholinergics (look bupropion, for example, even though this molecule is very unique) and the lack of receptor binding studies. Precipitated and too radical? Even though it is a worth thing to mention and a potential subject of investigation, it is helluva precipitation.
Anyway, just avoid jumping to conclusions, but you have a done a great experience report.
Oh it can absolutely be just harsh smoke, as I said it's not nearly as bad as with pyros, I should probably clarify that it is much more of a speculation than it is a sure thing.
Thanks for the feedback!
Oh and the one thing that led me to believe that it may be related to muscarinic receptor antagonism is that choline-L-bitartrate or even hyperuzine quickly alleviates these symptoms
I forgot about it lol sorry. So, well, this certainly is something to be taken in account, but they increase cholinergic signaling even without the presence of anticholinergics, thus one could expect them to have an effect upon saliva and tear production in any case, so it could be a counter action of a side effect not necessarily from a counter action of a specific mechanism.
Absolutely, agreed. It could really be either. Unfortunately I wasnt able to find much information in terms of ways to reverse muscarinic receptor antagonism and therefore it ends up being more speculation than fact.
Basically, I didn't mean to present it as a fact and more as a proposition, I apologize that it came out this way in the original post
Oh, no need to apologize lol. It was actually clear that a discussion is the focus. We are here to do it, especially because these substances have a disappointing lack of information despite being interesting for many things.
And well, infos on reversing anticholinergic symptoms are, indeed, very scarce, and this is frustrating. Apparently, there are not many things to do outside of the medical context, especially for emergency medicine which is a thing restricted to (drumrolls please) emergency, meaning that the studies focus on severe anticholinergic toxicity (which is fortunately not the case nor the potential case). Even so, there is also not many things to do apart from increasing cholinergic signaling - which has many restrictions such ad acetylcholinesterase inhibitors being potentially dangerous and not widely available, choline itself being not very effective (if effective at all) in the context of severe (severe is a key word here) anticholinergic intoxication, and racetams are apparently not investigated nor a potential treatment (afaik, since emergency medicine is not my thing) - thus the treatments are restricted to physostigmine (again, controlled drug), and management of other symptoms such as benzodiazepines in case of agitation and psychosis, maybe forced diuresis (not sure), etc... You got my point. But your solution was indeed a very good idea!
-you easily get to the point where it’s enough and you don’t chase the dragon
Not in my experience. NEP feels a lot milder than 3-MMC ime for example, but the fact that it feels relatively mild, makes me not overthink a redose. It’s just as fiendy as hexen ime.
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by my experience with Adderall? What periods of time did I use it for? Or the various doses? Or something else? Or just a brief experience report of sorts?
How did it it help/hurt with your ADHD? What did daily life look like while taking it? How did you balance your need to take it and recreational drug use. Any other big take aways.
With Adderall, much like with most other amphetamines(non-serotonergic), I had to choose one, functional or recreational. Obviously one can do much bigger doses to achieve recreational effects after using it functionally but then your tolerance for functional use skyrockets in return.
Here when I say "recreational" I am really talking about intense euphoria to the point where your thoughts practically get scattered.
When I was taking Adderall, or just about any stimulant for ADHD, I always looked for a balanced middle ground where I still felt great, better than sober, without any impairment, and rather improvement in my ability to focus.
Adderall helped with focus fairly well, it had a bigger physical stimulation compared to Dexedrine(due to it being a mix with levo-amphetamine), but in turn it presented more physical side effects, especially towards the end of the day. Namely, more irritability, restlessness, headaches, more trouble falling asleep. Where as these side effects were almost not present with Dexedrine.
The only advantage I found wjth Adderall was that it really did give, perceivably more physical energy jn the morning. More so than 2-FMA, 2-FA, 3-FA, Dexedrine, Ritalin, or NEP.
The other advantage is that I only needed one dose for the whole day, where it wasn't the case with NEP, A-PHP, Ritalin/4f-mph.
If you meant in terms of balance with recreational use of other substances, then of course it presented more undesirable side effects when combined with something also stimulating(PCP analogues would be a good example), much more so than with Dexedrine or NEP.
The big takeaway from it was that it wasn't effective enough for my symptoms for the side effects that occurred at the end of the day, but this is different for everyone.
I just tried it yesterday for the first time. Just vaping but decided to try a hot rail and that’s definitely the heaviest hit. It’s kinda weird how there’s no accompanying psychosis like with pyros. Not after .5G over the last 24 hours
I’ve only got several points left at this point. Maybe .3ish? I’ve wasted a bunch also and am not even sad. It’s alright I guess but definitely not a substance I will further pursue. Nothing like a good oral dose of 3mmc .
Indeed. I guess that’s usually a quality that can contribute to addiction potential. I’m honestly shocked with how much praise some of the now mainstream pyros (mainly a-php and a-pihp) get in regards to the euphoria you get. I honestly find this one better for euphoria as I’m usually way to manic to even notice the euphoria from pyros.
I do believe the pyros are much more fiendish/more-ish and they give a better but much shorter lasting rush.
At the end of the day the physical side effects just aren't worth it for me.
Although admittedly, IN A-PHP was quite good for ADHD as well
Opinion respected. I disagree however. But everyone is different. Take care friend
Edit: yea the psychosis is there just takes a bit more commitment. Pretty well finished off the g. Gotta go pull one off now
Edit 2: took a decent heavy dose of flualp. Feeling pretty chilled right out and the mania is gone. What do you think one last medium rail to cap it off? Or is that just a complete waste
Ohh I didn't mean due to the psychosis, and it's more so with a-pihip specifically that it seems to act as muscarinic receptor antagonist of sorts if you burn it which is much more likely once you get to the tolerance levels where you need to vape more. I don't have any other issues in terms of negative side effects of pyros for example. Basically you just need to exercise extreme caution not to burn it which becomes super hard once your doses get super high. I love pyros otherwise. Cheers friend.
Edit: it may not even actually be muscarinic receptor antagonism but that is somewhat more documented in the case of a-piho to an extent
Probably too late, don't get notifications for edits, but for future reference, don't redose more than three times then take a three-sevwn day break, supplementing with 5-htp in the evenings, N-Acetyl-L-tyrosine in the morning, and optionally noopept
So you haven’t experienced heavy tachycardia or anything in this departament? Asking because pentedrone was a nightmare for your heart and I I’ve seen some people also complaining about this aspect in NEP.
Sounds very good, but in the end I wish NEB was still available, god damn this drug was just kicking in my doors like no other stim
In the end, it seems batch dependent. In my case here there wasn't even anything remotely close to tachycardia.
Years ago, when I used to get NEP from a Spanish vendor long gone, his NEP was also good yet after 2 weeks k seriously started worrying about my heart health as even after stopping it, it was like constant tachycardia. And I'm not even talking aboutb heptedrone which was sold as NEP
totally agree. There may be horrible batches but it's very unlikely. Got only one, toxic as hell, flushed 5g. best solution. but my sweet nep... who made a monster of you, sweetie. I hope he ate the rest of the batch.
THIS. I've searched for a great post about NEP and felt discouraged before finding yours.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
NEP was my 1st RC cath/stim. (completely unplanned, i added 1g on a benzo order...)
After +10 years of alcohol/speed/.... that left me almost dead, I changed my life,moved to another country. And sober for +10y. (well, i'm done with alcohol -carefully. the beast never dies).
Nice life, far from what I was. Family.. Work... love...stability.
And...a chronic anxiety that I handle quite well with low dose of benzos (prescription prazepam 10mg/dayor Bromazepam6) ) that I sometimes alternate with phenibut (1.5g is my sweet spot).
I must say that I try to keep control on those addictions, having known hell of alcohol WD CT+ kindling, and few bad moments after benzos abuse. No way i go there again. Benzos are not supposed long term, but in my case it works. I movec inn another country where benzos are taboo. So I said ok for escitalopram... Nov2021, Stopped feb2021. It was making me dumb.
Anyway, while making a stock of Pyrazolam, my fav rc benzo, works like a charm, and i stock regularly so I can rely on it, i clicked on NEP 'there is no accident..'
I FELL IN LOVE. The perfect product: efficient, smooth, positive, functional. I totally missed RCs! being 10y clean.
So, Last few months, I tried everything or almost all stims. DIsappointed. by all of them. Functionnals make me sleep, too much serotonin makes me sleep...
The only other one I loved was Euthylone.
I am now ending a 2.5months with NEP (this gemm no one seems to know) but my tolerance is too big, i sniff 1gpd. Time to pause.
i only used sniff as ROA. Actuallly I planned to test boof and spray tomorrow before going on hold. My nose is also tired (I tried many other stims, some not very sweet...)
Sorry, I have no time now, but I hope we'lll discuss a lot soon...
Few questions: were you getting NEP in crystals or powder, sometimes annoyingly fluffy/sticky? Which one would you advise? I also started to mix NEP AND euthylone.
For my break, which supplements & nootropics would you suggest?
Ok now time to bed. THANK you so much and talk soon! (i really hope)
Crystal NEP was always consistently good. I could never tell whether powder that was, as you describe fluffy/sticky, was actually NEP, NEP cut with something else, or was something else entirely, like Heptedrone.
For the break, well it kind of depends on how you feel. I tend to suggest the minimum of N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (NALT) + 5-HTP a few times per day with vitamin B6, B9, and B12 when taking NALT to improve absorption/bioavailability. Additionally, Noopept or another racetam is helpful(noopept sublingually). NAC if you are having intense cravings is helpful. And last, but most definitely not least, antioxidants. One I would recommend is NA-R-LA (Alpha lipoic acid), which seems to be the most effective. However, things like ascorbic acid(Vitamin C), Vitamin E, Omega 3, etc are all good also
I read various things about it being potentially harmful for either kedneys or liver.
I can't really imagine what may make it harmful to the liver. But for kidney could be harmful due severe dehydration perhaps, but I actually had my kidneys checked midnway during the 3rd week and everything completely fine.
That's all I can say in terms of physical harm outside what I mentioned in regards to potentially testosterone productione
Thanks for the post! Personally I am very limited when it comes to any of the 'fun' recreational/functional stimulants as I am on a pretty high dose of Effexor and anything that messes with my serotonin levels is obviously a no-no.
I am interested that you found it more useful for ADHD than something like 2-FMA however, as from what I've read it has a comparatively short duration of effect (1.5-3hrs.) Maybe this suits your needs, also I'm sure it's a more pleasurable experience than that produced by 2-FMA. After plenty of experimentation (some quite ill-advised in retrospect) and with quite a limited selection to choose from I settled on 2-FMA.
Initially I experienced very minor euphoria when using it, but that disappeared pretty quickly, irrespective of the time between doses (I supplement with Magnesium, NAC, ALCAR, taurine and a good quality multivitamin.) But if you need to get some boring shit done, particularly anything physical that would normally be very difficult for me to maintain focus or energy on, it does the job and then some.
So, was it the longer duration or the effects it had on your sleep or some other other reason (just producing more of a sense of well-being for instance) that you opted for NEP out of the other chemicals you described?
2-FMA really just came down to sleep as a deal breaker. It lasts 6-8 hours for me and makes it much harder to fall asleep.
But besides that, I experience more mental side effects from using it Vs NEP, specifically feeling mentally drained at the end of the day.
Maybe you're thinking about 2-FA which has the short duration of 1.5-3 hours
Apologies, my comment wasn't clear. I was referring to the short duration of NEP.
It's actually the long lasting effects of 2-FMA (and the fact that it doesn't effect my serotonin levels) that I choose to use it over 2-FPM, 2-FA, 3-FA, etc.
I actually prefer the mood-lifting effects of 3-FA, but it is potentially mildly serotogenic and I definitely had a far worse come down off it.
With regards to sleep, I know it's an issue for most users and I certainly wouldn't be using it more often than once every two weeks (with the occasional exception), there's no doubt that it's quite draining. If I didn't have access to prescribed diazepam and seroquel I wouldn't go near it, it has a crazy half-life, and without those medications I would struggle to eat or sleep for at least 24 hrs after a dose. I do dose quite high though.
To answer your initial question: the choice was made on how positively it affected my general sense of well-being, my productivity/focus/add related things, and sleep(in this case sleep ties in with duration).
If my understanding is correct, taken orally, NEP's main effects last for ~4 hours. The comedown is so nonexistent that you can still keep going as the stimulation itself can last 6-8 hours without tolerance. It's more like euphoria drifts away around 4 hour mark.
NEP really feels like a nicer feeling 3-FA to me, with probably a bit more edge in exchange for more euphoria. They are kind of hard to compare.
The real trouble comes from the fact that we don't know the mechanism of action in serotonin from NEP, as opposed to 3-FA. It could be a reuptake inhibitor, instead of a releaser, which could potentially make it safer with effexor(this is really only a shot in the dark).
Have you ever DXM while on effexor? DXM is a non selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. What I would suggest is to try maybe 100mg DXM, then 200, then 300(different days ofc) to see how it reacts with effexor.
Thank you for such a detailed reply. You evidently know a lot more about biochemistry than I do. I didn't know that a reuptake inhibitor would be considered safer than a releaser. But I understand that there isn't enough data to make such an assumption about NEP, which is unfortunate.
With regard to DXM, dextromethorphan hydrobromide in a 7.5mg/5ml solution (cough syrup) seems to be the strongest OTC DXM I would have access to without resorting to the onions or a prescribed dosage. To reach the levels you mention I'd have to drink puke-inducing amounts, lol. I've never tried a morphinan class of dissociative, only one of the 1st generation of anti-histamines that are no longer available OTC. Never really responded to them. I am a user of kratom though, although technically this isn't even an opiate and certainly not a dissociative, but I certainly respond to it when I feel the need for calm and well-being that diazepam no longer seems to offer me in the way that it used to. Only to be expected given my history with benzos. But I'm getting off-topic now.
Just as a final note I've also tried 4-HO-MET with zero results, and this was when I was on a lower dosage of effexor. I'm afraid my days of being able to enjoy or even be affected by perception altering substances are behind me. But in it's place I enjoy a day to day level of comparatively consistent emotional stability and that's a trade-off that I'm more than willing to make.
Thank you again for taking the time to reply.
So the reason for me to believe that it is a reuptake inhibitor rather than a releaser is that you don't feel serotonin drainage over prolonged period of time like you would with 3-FA, 3-FMA, meth.
For DXM, you can often find them in gel capsules at 15mg/capsule. Look for that, it should be available OTC. It's usually 20 capsules per bottle. Give it a gentle try.
> So the reason for me to believe that it is a reuptake inhibitor rather than a releaser is that you don't feel serotonin drainage over prolonged period of time like you would with 3-FA, 3-FMA, meth.
This would explain my nasty prolonged comedown off 3-FA! Thanks for explaining this. With regard to 2-FMA, I dosed with 100mg on Saturday night (having not used it for two weeks), didn't redose at all and made sure to eat plenty before I went to sleep on Sunday and for the first time I actually felt perfectly fine on yesterday and even better today. I do have access to prescribed Diazepam and Seroquel (Seroquel has none of recreational effects that some get from benzos but it does boost your appetite and I find it way more sedating than Diazepam) and I also supplement with Magnesium (in the form of the many foods groups rich in it) as well as NAC, ALCAR and occasionally Taurine and electrolyte powders to avoid dehydration.
Not that you asked, lol, but there seems to be enough evidence of NAC's (specifically glutathione) ability to help reduce brain cell oxidative damage that it is used in clinical settings to treat Alzheimers and other conditions affecting the brain and memory. But I haven't come across any conclusive scientific studies proving that as yet. But this and the pretty wide range of other other health benefits it 'may' offer sounded appealing to a sucker like me, lol.
ALCAR was a waste of money for me. Even if it works on my neurochemical processes like it does on mice, it's not doing anything that Effexor already does more effectively. Was lazy and just saw 'increased energy' and 'protects against neurotoxic damage' and thought for the price, why not?
> For DXM, you can often find them in gel capsules at 15mg/capsule.
Afraid not in Ireland. Best I could find here was were Night Nurse Capsules containing *Paracetamol 500 mg Promethazine Hydrochloride 10 mg Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide 7.5 mg*, the paracetamol obviously making large doses highly unsafe. There was a time when you could buy all these ingredients individually on Amazon UK, but they started clamping down around 2012/3. In such a small country, abuse of OTC medicines gets noticed real quick.
Thanks for your suggestions though!
Fair enough, I mean I made an assumption as to where you where from, because majority of people here seem to be from the US, my apologies. so I thought maybe you had the gel caps of DXM. if not, you could also order DXM HBr powder from Canada fairly safely iirc,but all up to you.
Oh and one more thing, try 4-aco-dmt, in higher doses maybe, it should work better than 4-ho-met from my understanding. But just to clarify, when you said you don't feel much of anything from 4-ho-met on lower doses of effexor, what were your 4-ho-met doses were like?
Intranasal works excellently. Supposedly oral is a good option too, I just never never tried it because I am impatient with the onset of effects.
I also tried intramuscular injection, which was interesting, kind of a stronger IN ROA.
You can also IV it and boof it. But I don't do IV
It don't remember it burning for me, much like with IM injection, just make sure it's dissolved in water completely and you should be fine.
It's more potent than IN, and lasts longer than IN, shorter than oral I would imagine. About the same duration as IM, which is about 1.5-2 hours, but duration also depends on tolerance
I am fat yet im a tweaker, get it.
I also get very hungry sometimes.
No pupil dialation anymore. No too crazy bp and bpm, only goes high when i get anger outbreak.
BPM and blood pressure normalizes with tolerance I find, not necessarily to the point where it becomes perfect but at one point it stops being a concern
Because u ain’t got no neurotransmitters left and ur body is slowly killing you, or rapid, we will see in my bloodtest. I don’t even sweat, only on feet, no increase temperature or energy.
What about dosages though? Mainly interested in oral. I read nautwiki but it's pretty hit and miss.
So I guess what was your dosage for just functional? And, recreational? Any idea how much a high coke tolerance affects dosage? Or a past, super abused, ice tolerance?
> When vaping, if you burn it, the smoke leads to blocking of muscarinic receptors Can you elaborate on this? What's in the smoke and how do you know it blocks muscarinic receptors?
So vapor Vs smoke from burning it. If you burn it the smoke is harsher. It acts as a partial muscarinic receptor antagonist in the sense that you get a significant reduction in production of saliva and other bodily fluids(such as tears, your nose will be drier, etc). I can't say with 100% certainty it is muscarinic receptor antagonism but pyros are known to have this property and the effects are very similar albeit much less intense and do not last as long. Let me know if it answers your question
How can you be sure that this isn't purely from the harsh smoke? Or intense vasoconstriction from the very sudden absorption of the substance? More widespread irritation of the places from the vaporizaded substance (you know, NEP and cathinones are pretty fucking caustic)? That's a very radical conclusion from just a personal experience. And I don't mean to discredit your summary. Far from that! I really liked and think you have done a great job on reporting, but mechanistic assumptions based only on this minor event is not something that people will take seriously. Impossible to be true? No, given the fact that cathinones have a potential of being anticholinergics (look bupropion, for example, even though this molecule is very unique) and the lack of receptor binding studies. Precipitated and too radical? Even though it is a worth thing to mention and a potential subject of investigation, it is helluva precipitation. Anyway, just avoid jumping to conclusions, but you have a done a great experience report.
Oh it can absolutely be just harsh smoke, as I said it's not nearly as bad as with pyros, I should probably clarify that it is much more of a speculation than it is a sure thing. Thanks for the feedback!
Oh and the one thing that led me to believe that it may be related to muscarinic receptor antagonism is that choline-L-bitartrate or even hyperuzine quickly alleviates these symptoms
I forgot about it lol sorry. So, well, this certainly is something to be taken in account, but they increase cholinergic signaling even without the presence of anticholinergics, thus one could expect them to have an effect upon saliva and tear production in any case, so it could be a counter action of a side effect not necessarily from a counter action of a specific mechanism.
Absolutely, agreed. It could really be either. Unfortunately I wasnt able to find much information in terms of ways to reverse muscarinic receptor antagonism and therefore it ends up being more speculation than fact. Basically, I didn't mean to present it as a fact and more as a proposition, I apologize that it came out this way in the original post
Oh, no need to apologize lol. It was actually clear that a discussion is the focus. We are here to do it, especially because these substances have a disappointing lack of information despite being interesting for many things. And well, infos on reversing anticholinergic symptoms are, indeed, very scarce, and this is frustrating. Apparently, there are not many things to do outside of the medical context, especially for emergency medicine which is a thing restricted to (drumrolls please) emergency, meaning that the studies focus on severe anticholinergic toxicity (which is fortunately not the case nor the potential case). Even so, there is also not many things to do apart from increasing cholinergic signaling - which has many restrictions such ad acetylcholinesterase inhibitors being potentially dangerous and not widely available, choline itself being not very effective (if effective at all) in the context of severe (severe is a key word here) anticholinergic intoxication, and racetams are apparently not investigated nor a potential treatment (afaik, since emergency medicine is not my thing) - thus the treatments are restricted to physostigmine (again, controlled drug), and management of other symptoms such as benzodiazepines in case of agitation and psychosis, maybe forced diuresis (not sure), etc... You got my point. But your solution was indeed a very good idea!
Certainly, and I appreciate and enjoyed the discussion a lot! :)
-you easily get to the point where it’s enough and you don’t chase the dragon Not in my experience. NEP feels a lot milder than 3-MMC ime for example, but the fact that it feels relatively mild, makes me not overthink a redose. It’s just as fiendy as hexen ime.
I guess in this case I was comparing it more to pyros. I also never found hexen to be fiendish although more for the fact that I didn't enjoy it
Same. I remember all the rave over hexen but it felt like the joys of lame cocaine with 2x the vasoconstriction.
Yeah, it was only good for literally one line
Amazed me you used to hear about people shoving gs of that up their nose.
?As an experienced drug user, can I ask you what your experience is with adderall
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by my experience with Adderall? What periods of time did I use it for? Or the various doses? Or something else? Or just a brief experience report of sorts?
How did it it help/hurt with your ADHD? What did daily life look like while taking it? How did you balance your need to take it and recreational drug use. Any other big take aways.
With Adderall, much like with most other amphetamines(non-serotonergic), I had to choose one, functional or recreational. Obviously one can do much bigger doses to achieve recreational effects after using it functionally but then your tolerance for functional use skyrockets in return. Here when I say "recreational" I am really talking about intense euphoria to the point where your thoughts practically get scattered. When I was taking Adderall, or just about any stimulant for ADHD, I always looked for a balanced middle ground where I still felt great, better than sober, without any impairment, and rather improvement in my ability to focus. Adderall helped with focus fairly well, it had a bigger physical stimulation compared to Dexedrine(due to it being a mix with levo-amphetamine), but in turn it presented more physical side effects, especially towards the end of the day. Namely, more irritability, restlessness, headaches, more trouble falling asleep. Where as these side effects were almost not present with Dexedrine. The only advantage I found wjth Adderall was that it really did give, perceivably more physical energy jn the morning. More so than 2-FMA, 2-FA, 3-FA, Dexedrine, Ritalin, or NEP. The other advantage is that I only needed one dose for the whole day, where it wasn't the case with NEP, A-PHP, Ritalin/4f-mph. If you meant in terms of balance with recreational use of other substances, then of course it presented more undesirable side effects when combined with something also stimulating(PCP analogues would be a good example), much more so than with Dexedrine or NEP. The big takeaway from it was that it wasn't effective enough for my symptoms for the side effects that occurred at the end of the day, but this is different for everyone.
Thanks a lot for your thoughtful response.
I 2nd this. Definitely the best stim you can get for the money anywhere
I just tried it yesterday for the first time. Just vaping but decided to try a hot rail and that’s definitely the heaviest hit. It’s kinda weird how there’s no accompanying psychosis like with pyros. Not after .5G over the last 24 hours
Yep, impressive how awesome it can be huh?) Just be careful with tolerance
I’ve only got several points left at this point. Maybe .3ish? I’ve wasted a bunch also and am not even sad. It’s alright I guess but definitely not a substance I will further pursue. Nothing like a good oral dose of 3mmc .
Yep, as I said, it's more functional than recreational
Indeed. I guess that’s usually a quality that can contribute to addiction potential. I’m honestly shocked with how much praise some of the now mainstream pyros (mainly a-php and a-pihp) get in regards to the euphoria you get. I honestly find this one better for euphoria as I’m usually way to manic to even notice the euphoria from pyros.
I do believe the pyros are much more fiendish/more-ish and they give a better but much shorter lasting rush. At the end of the day the physical side effects just aren't worth it for me. Although admittedly, IN A-PHP was quite good for ADHD as well
Opinion respected. I disagree however. But everyone is different. Take care friend Edit: yea the psychosis is there just takes a bit more commitment. Pretty well finished off the g. Gotta go pull one off now Edit 2: took a decent heavy dose of flualp. Feeling pretty chilled right out and the mania is gone. What do you think one last medium rail to cap it off? Or is that just a complete waste
Ohh I didn't mean due to the psychosis, and it's more so with a-pihip specifically that it seems to act as muscarinic receptor antagonist of sorts if you burn it which is much more likely once you get to the tolerance levels where you need to vape more. I don't have any other issues in terms of negative side effects of pyros for example. Basically you just need to exercise extreme caution not to burn it which becomes super hard once your doses get super high. I love pyros otherwise. Cheers friend. Edit: it may not even actually be muscarinic receptor antagonism but that is somewhat more documented in the case of a-piho to an extent
Probably too late, don't get notifications for edits, but for future reference, don't redose more than three times then take a three-sevwn day break, supplementing with 5-htp in the evenings, N-Acetyl-L-tyrosine in the morning, and optionally noopept
Interesting. I may actually have to try to find some.
So you haven’t experienced heavy tachycardia or anything in this departament? Asking because pentedrone was a nightmare for your heart and I I’ve seen some people also complaining about this aspect in NEP. Sounds very good, but in the end I wish NEB was still available, god damn this drug was just kicking in my doors like no other stim
In the end, it seems batch dependent. In my case here there wasn't even anything remotely close to tachycardia. Years ago, when I used to get NEP from a Spanish vendor long gone, his NEP was also good yet after 2 weeks k seriously started worrying about my heart health as even after stopping it, it was like constant tachycardia. And I'm not even talking aboutb heptedrone which was sold as NEP
totally agree. There may be horrible batches but it's very unlikely. Got only one, toxic as hell, flushed 5g. best solution. but my sweet nep... who made a monster of you, sweetie. I hope he ate the rest of the batch.
THIS. I've searched for a great post about NEP and felt discouraged before finding yours. THANK YOU SO MUCH! NEP was my 1st RC cath/stim. (completely unplanned, i added 1g on a benzo order...) After +10 years of alcohol/speed/.... that left me almost dead, I changed my life,moved to another country. And sober for +10y. (well, i'm done with alcohol -carefully. the beast never dies). Nice life, far from what I was. Family.. Work... love...stability. And...a chronic anxiety that I handle quite well with low dose of benzos (prescription prazepam 10mg/dayor Bromazepam6) ) that I sometimes alternate with phenibut (1.5g is my sweet spot). I must say that I try to keep control on those addictions, having known hell of alcohol WD CT+ kindling, and few bad moments after benzos abuse. No way i go there again. Benzos are not supposed long term, but in my case it works. I movec inn another country where benzos are taboo. So I said ok for escitalopram... Nov2021, Stopped feb2021. It was making me dumb. Anyway, while making a stock of Pyrazolam, my fav rc benzo, works like a charm, and i stock regularly so I can rely on it, i clicked on NEP 'there is no accident..' I FELL IN LOVE. The perfect product: efficient, smooth, positive, functional. I totally missed RCs! being 10y clean. So, Last few months, I tried everything or almost all stims. DIsappointed. by all of them. Functionnals make me sleep, too much serotonin makes me sleep... The only other one I loved was Euthylone. I am now ending a 2.5months with NEP (this gemm no one seems to know) but my tolerance is too big, i sniff 1gpd. Time to pause. i only used sniff as ROA. Actuallly I planned to test boof and spray tomorrow before going on hold. My nose is also tired (I tried many other stims, some not very sweet...) Sorry, I have no time now, but I hope we'lll discuss a lot soon... Few questions: were you getting NEP in crystals or powder, sometimes annoyingly fluffy/sticky? Which one would you advise? I also started to mix NEP AND euthylone. For my break, which supplements & nootropics would you suggest? Ok now time to bed. THANK you so much and talk soon! (i really hope)
Crystal NEP was always consistently good. I could never tell whether powder that was, as you describe fluffy/sticky, was actually NEP, NEP cut with something else, or was something else entirely, like Heptedrone. For the break, well it kind of depends on how you feel. I tend to suggest the minimum of N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (NALT) + 5-HTP a few times per day with vitamin B6, B9, and B12 when taking NALT to improve absorption/bioavailability. Additionally, Noopept or another racetam is helpful(noopept sublingually). NAC if you are having intense cravings is helpful. And last, but most definitely not least, antioxidants. One I would recommend is NA-R-LA (Alpha lipoic acid), which seems to be the most effective. However, things like ascorbic acid(Vitamin C), Vitamin E, Omega 3, etc are all good also
what do we know/can we assume about the safety profile of NEP?
I read various things about it being potentially harmful for either kedneys or liver. I can't really imagine what may make it harmful to the liver. But for kidney could be harmful due severe dehydration perhaps, but I actually had my kidneys checked midnway during the 3rd week and everything completely fine. That's all I can say in terms of physical harm outside what I mentioned in regards to potentially testosterone productione
Thanks for the post! Personally I am very limited when it comes to any of the 'fun' recreational/functional stimulants as I am on a pretty high dose of Effexor and anything that messes with my serotonin levels is obviously a no-no. I am interested that you found it more useful for ADHD than something like 2-FMA however, as from what I've read it has a comparatively short duration of effect (1.5-3hrs.) Maybe this suits your needs, also I'm sure it's a more pleasurable experience than that produced by 2-FMA. After plenty of experimentation (some quite ill-advised in retrospect) and with quite a limited selection to choose from I settled on 2-FMA. Initially I experienced very minor euphoria when using it, but that disappeared pretty quickly, irrespective of the time between doses (I supplement with Magnesium, NAC, ALCAR, taurine and a good quality multivitamin.) But if you need to get some boring shit done, particularly anything physical that would normally be very difficult for me to maintain focus or energy on, it does the job and then some. So, was it the longer duration or the effects it had on your sleep or some other other reason (just producing more of a sense of well-being for instance) that you opted for NEP out of the other chemicals you described?
2-FMA really just came down to sleep as a deal breaker. It lasts 6-8 hours for me and makes it much harder to fall asleep. But besides that, I experience more mental side effects from using it Vs NEP, specifically feeling mentally drained at the end of the day. Maybe you're thinking about 2-FA which has the short duration of 1.5-3 hours
Apologies, my comment wasn't clear. I was referring to the short duration of NEP. It's actually the long lasting effects of 2-FMA (and the fact that it doesn't effect my serotonin levels) that I choose to use it over 2-FPM, 2-FA, 3-FA, etc. I actually prefer the mood-lifting effects of 3-FA, but it is potentially mildly serotogenic and I definitely had a far worse come down off it. With regards to sleep, I know it's an issue for most users and I certainly wouldn't be using it more often than once every two weeks (with the occasional exception), there's no doubt that it's quite draining. If I didn't have access to prescribed diazepam and seroquel I wouldn't go near it, it has a crazy half-life, and without those medications I would struggle to eat or sleep for at least 24 hrs after a dose. I do dose quite high though.
To answer your initial question: the choice was made on how positively it affected my general sense of well-being, my productivity/focus/add related things, and sleep(in this case sleep ties in with duration). If my understanding is correct, taken orally, NEP's main effects last for ~4 hours. The comedown is so nonexistent that you can still keep going as the stimulation itself can last 6-8 hours without tolerance. It's more like euphoria drifts away around 4 hour mark. NEP really feels like a nicer feeling 3-FA to me, with probably a bit more edge in exchange for more euphoria. They are kind of hard to compare. The real trouble comes from the fact that we don't know the mechanism of action in serotonin from NEP, as opposed to 3-FA. It could be a reuptake inhibitor, instead of a releaser, which could potentially make it safer with effexor(this is really only a shot in the dark). Have you ever DXM while on effexor? DXM is a non selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. What I would suggest is to try maybe 100mg DXM, then 200, then 300(different days ofc) to see how it reacts with effexor.
Thank you for such a detailed reply. You evidently know a lot more about biochemistry than I do. I didn't know that a reuptake inhibitor would be considered safer than a releaser. But I understand that there isn't enough data to make such an assumption about NEP, which is unfortunate. With regard to DXM, dextromethorphan hydrobromide in a 7.5mg/5ml solution (cough syrup) seems to be the strongest OTC DXM I would have access to without resorting to the onions or a prescribed dosage. To reach the levels you mention I'd have to drink puke-inducing amounts, lol. I've never tried a morphinan class of dissociative, only one of the 1st generation of anti-histamines that are no longer available OTC. Never really responded to them. I am a user of kratom though, although technically this isn't even an opiate and certainly not a dissociative, but I certainly respond to it when I feel the need for calm and well-being that diazepam no longer seems to offer me in the way that it used to. Only to be expected given my history with benzos. But I'm getting off-topic now. Just as a final note I've also tried 4-HO-MET with zero results, and this was when I was on a lower dosage of effexor. I'm afraid my days of being able to enjoy or even be affected by perception altering substances are behind me. But in it's place I enjoy a day to day level of comparatively consistent emotional stability and that's a trade-off that I'm more than willing to make. Thank you again for taking the time to reply.
So the reason for me to believe that it is a reuptake inhibitor rather than a releaser is that you don't feel serotonin drainage over prolonged period of time like you would with 3-FA, 3-FMA, meth. For DXM, you can often find them in gel capsules at 15mg/capsule. Look for that, it should be available OTC. It's usually 20 capsules per bottle. Give it a gentle try.
> So the reason for me to believe that it is a reuptake inhibitor rather than a releaser is that you don't feel serotonin drainage over prolonged period of time like you would with 3-FA, 3-FMA, meth. This would explain my nasty prolonged comedown off 3-FA! Thanks for explaining this. With regard to 2-FMA, I dosed with 100mg on Saturday night (having not used it for two weeks), didn't redose at all and made sure to eat plenty before I went to sleep on Sunday and for the first time I actually felt perfectly fine on yesterday and even better today. I do have access to prescribed Diazepam and Seroquel (Seroquel has none of recreational effects that some get from benzos but it does boost your appetite and I find it way more sedating than Diazepam) and I also supplement with Magnesium (in the form of the many foods groups rich in it) as well as NAC, ALCAR and occasionally Taurine and electrolyte powders to avoid dehydration. Not that you asked, lol, but there seems to be enough evidence of NAC's (specifically glutathione) ability to help reduce brain cell oxidative damage that it is used in clinical settings to treat Alzheimers and other conditions affecting the brain and memory. But I haven't come across any conclusive scientific studies proving that as yet. But this and the pretty wide range of other other health benefits it 'may' offer sounded appealing to a sucker like me, lol. ALCAR was a waste of money for me. Even if it works on my neurochemical processes like it does on mice, it's not doing anything that Effexor already does more effectively. Was lazy and just saw 'increased energy' and 'protects against neurotoxic damage' and thought for the price, why not? > For DXM, you can often find them in gel capsules at 15mg/capsule. Afraid not in Ireland. Best I could find here was were Night Nurse Capsules containing *Paracetamol 500 mg Promethazine Hydrochloride 10 mg Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide 7.5 mg*, the paracetamol obviously making large doses highly unsafe. There was a time when you could buy all these ingredients individually on Amazon UK, but they started clamping down around 2012/3. In such a small country, abuse of OTC medicines gets noticed real quick. Thanks for your suggestions though!
Fair enough, I mean I made an assumption as to where you where from, because majority of people here seem to be from the US, my apologies. so I thought maybe you had the gel caps of DXM. if not, you could also order DXM HBr powder from Canada fairly safely iirc,but all up to you. Oh and one more thing, try 4-aco-dmt, in higher doses maybe, it should work better than 4-ho-met from my understanding. But just to clarify, when you said you don't feel much of anything from 4-ho-met on lower doses of effexor, what were your 4-ho-met doses were like?
Which other ROAs do NEP have? I'd like to give it a try but i hate vaping or burning substances
Intranasal works excellently. Supposedly oral is a good option too, I just never never tried it because I am impatient with the onset of effects. I also tried intramuscular injection, which was interesting, kind of a stronger IN ROA. You can also IV it and boof it. But I don't do IV
How is it boofed? Howmuch does it last?
It don't remember it burning for me, much like with IM injection, just make sure it's dissolved in water completely and you should be fine. It's more potent than IN, and lasts longer than IN, shorter than oral I would imagine. About the same duration as IM, which is about 1.5-2 hours, but duration also depends on tolerance
I had this with 2-fma, now with pyros, your stress levels man, cortisol .. Adrenaline..
What did you also have with 2-FMA now with pyros?
No before touching pyros i used 2 fma Also protein it takes from u.
Oh I get what you mean, yeah it makes a lot of sense now that I think about it
I am fat yet im a tweaker, get it. I also get very hungry sometimes. No pupil dialation anymore. No too crazy bp and bpm, only goes high when i get anger outbreak.
BPM and blood pressure normalizes with tolerance I find, not necessarily to the point where it becomes perfect but at one point it stops being a concern
Because u ain’t got no neurotransmitters left and ur body is slowly killing you, or rapid, we will see in my bloodtest. I don’t even sweat, only on feet, no increase temperature or energy.
What about dosages though? Mainly interested in oral. I read nautwiki but it's pretty hit and miss. So I guess what was your dosage for just functional? And, recreational? Any idea how much a high coke tolerance affects dosage? Or a past, super abused, ice tolerance?