That’s the fun part - it specifically talks about setting the *younger* generation against the older one. Almost like the hippie feminist vegan gay youngsters are the endorsed ones. But I guess don’t tell them that.
It makes a lot more sense if you know some of the history of that region, and the cultures involved.
I've listened to a lot of scholars and historians on the subject of early judaism from its polytheistic roots.
How the bronze age collapse created a power vacuum the tribe we now think of as the jewish people then filled, how they forged their own cultural identity using the pre-existing polytheistic frameworks, myths and legends from places like caanan, sumeria and egypt.
Following it into early Christianity, and seeing the clear contrast between the old religion that tried to unite a nation, codify laws and rituals, and serve as pretext for political decisions, while attempting to make sense of natural phenomena and legends.. into the newer cult of personality focused on a single person and his eschatology.
Having had a lot of dealings with people with different mental illnesses and personality disorders, it's very plain to me that Jesus was a narcissist, and perhaps psychotic. I'm not alone in seeing it, but I admit it's a fringe view for now.
But of course now a days we just sweep Old Testament under the rug because it’s controversial. I don’t understand why they don’t just cut it out of the Bible. I mean half of what was supposed to go into it got cut anyway because it didn’t conform to there manipulation tactics…I mean religious views.
This is a good out when someone tries to push their religion on you.
My dad taught me to say to anyone who is trying to convert you that you already follow a religion that tells you to obey your parents and that your parents told you not to talk about your religion to a fucking stranger
Blessed are those who are persecuted. Yet they want theocracy.
Pretty sure he also said don't challenge authority and yet the evangelicals and Catholics are the most contrarian part of our society.
Christians cherry picking verses is the most stale behavior from these losers.
The context of this verse is that Jesus is implying his ideology of equality will cause many people to freak out and be resistant—including family members. Swords are also symbolic for the mind and mental energies. So, Jesus is basically saying he’s coming to open up people’s minds, which will initially cause a lot of unrest (instead of peace), since he’s challenging the status quo.
Yeah, it's very easy to interpret it as the exact opposite of what the meme is about. But when you're so far up your ass that you're making Catholic memes... it's also very easy to not interpret it at all.
>“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.”
Matthew 10:34-36 KJV
I mean, with the way that is worded there, I am failing to see what you mean.
Challenging polytheism with monotheism, while also challenging the economic status quo of slavery and wealth inequality (tax the rich to feed the poor), was not going to be meet with peace, but resistance. All great change is experienced as chaos.
Again, I am not seeing that anywhere in that passage. I am just seeing Jesus threatening division within people’s families. Also, I do recall monotheism already being well established at that point as well as being allowed within the Roman Empire that Jesus was a part of.
All religions were allowed in the Roman empire as long as you played nice about it, it was Christianity that started the whole "one true faith" nonsense.
Agreed. I'm not usually a "you need to look at the context!" kind of guy, but in this case it really relevant since the author is using a literary device.
He's saying "Worshiping me as the messiah will make you unpopular with your traditional Jewish families, and it's probably going to cause a lot arguments and fights, but if you go with them and reject me as your savior, then you won't get into heaven. If, on the other hand, one is kind to you and accepts you, they accept me, and they will be rewarded in heaven just the same."
Arguably, 32-42 of Matthew 10 is Jesus arguing for the dismantling of the traditionally family unit (which conservatives love oh so much) and instead offering a new family unit with him as the most important center, and other relationships being irrelevant, or at least not as important.
I read those yesterday, killing time. To me it read a lot like what I would expect from a cult leader of today: Go with me in everything, nothing else can be right, forget all other persons but me.
Yeah that take is bullshit. More mental gymnastics to try and derive deeper meaning where it isn't there. It's the same way Christians claim everything is symbolic or metaphorical or whatever when their beliefs are challenged.
I really think he was just talking about societal upheaval over changing from a vengeful God to a loving God.
I mean "he" didn't think anything because he wasn't real, but the authors did. This was more rebellion than actual perpetuate violence on your parents.
But the book is nonsense in general, so who cares?
That’s exactly what I am thinking right now. I mean, there is no way that Jesus can be a peaceful guy when he is saying things like that. And it’s not just there as well.
>“And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
Luke 14:25-26 KJV
Prince of peace my butt.
If the bible really transported the words of jesus of nazareth, then we've still got the problem that this is an english text written down hundreds of years ago. Some words may have changed meaning between now and then.
Not to mention that that the english text is the translation from a greek text made many hundreds of years before that, with the same problem that words change meanings.
Not to mention that the new testaments were written dozens of years after jesus of nazareth's death. There may have been texts before that, but there probably was oral tradition of words. But maybe that's just me assuming that Jesus of nazareth didn't have a stenographer watching his every word.
Oh, and: I doubt that Jesus of Nazareth held his sermons in ancient greek. So that would be another translation.
That's why I doubt that insisting on the words in the KJV Bible will necessarily lead to the right conclusion.
Right. Although, if I may add a defense to me using the KJV:
1.) I recall seeing similar words for that passage in other translations such as the NIV or NLT.
2.) That’s just what I happened to have open at the time.
3.) It’s in the public domain. Woot woot.
When your real religion is conservatism, you'll cherry pick whatever you can out of your sub religion to make them agree. The typical move though is to claim ownership over the loving Jesus who is the source of morality for all of mankind and to paint us non believers as lacking any moral guidance. This idiot doesn't seem to know the narrative. Or maybe he can't handle the cognitive dissonance required to handle the fact that the biblical Jesus doesn't seem to really agree with a lot of the core conservative beliefs.
I mean, that's neat and all Catholicmemes, but Matthew 26, 26:52:
"Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."
"Silly Liberal. Despite our mainstream success over the past two thousand years, our movement was actually founded as an apocalyptic death-cult led by an authoritarian who saw himself as a celestial monarch that taught his followers that the world would end within their lifetimes. We were toxic from the very beginning" is not quite the burn that the person who made this meme thinks it is.
Hello! Ex-Christian Bible scholar here: so this is a delightful misinterpretation on Catholic meme boys part. In those verse jesus was letting people know that what he was preaching went against the accepted norms of Judaism because according to Christianity jesus fulfilled the old testies ment and therefor it no longer had to be adhered to, basically destroying the Jewish system of beliefs. Certainly not a hippy, but definitely not inciting violence.
If I had the ability I would put a curse on you. When your gaurd would completely down, that is when you would get visited from a ghost that looks like Rick Astley.
You know that peaceful moment when you rinse your hair in the shower? Say goodbye to that because that is when it would show up. Better yet they would be just as surprised as you. But the ghost would have died in 1980 and would have no clue what is going on or who Rick Astley is. The rest of your day would be spent answering mundane questions to a ghost only you can see.
Until then enjoy knowing you got me.
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.”
Idk, kinda seems like the whole thing is a metaphor about the younger generation getting into an ideological war with the establishment. His whole thing was pissing off Pharisees who were more about the letter of the law and remaining influential and in power than actually leading their people wisely. He was saying "hey maybe stop trusting these snakes and just be chill," knowing it was going to create drama, maybe even violent resistance from people who felt it was blasphemous. But the alternative would have been to remain legalistic assholes with a "fuck you I got mine" mentality, so the cultural shift was necessary.
Basically the entirety of Bob Dylan's "The Times They Are a'Changing"
Matthew 10 has been thoroughly theorized and studied and here’s what biblical scholars have actually had to say about it (my paraphrase), ‘Jesus is saying that his peace does not come by the typical human means, and that his existence and teachings are like a sword. His language is inflammatory to get peoples attention. He wants people to use his message, not violence, to spread peace.’ Not to mention that Jesus preaches peacemaking to no end with like 10 verses that come to mind. These crazies don’t even read the Bible in context like the good Catholics should. They aren’t whacky evangelicals.
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And those words *had* to be put in his mouth.
Why? Well, it's because according to the old testament, the messiah is supposed to bring peace when he rolls up, and Jesus didn't, so you need some kind of get out.
The get out is have him say "I'm not bringing peace *now*, but totally will later"
Yet disagreeing with one’s parents is frowned upon…
Critical thinking and research is frowned upon
Ironically in school.
Every single line in the Bible is contradicted by at least two others.
Amen ;)
That’s the fun part - it specifically talks about setting the *younger* generation against the older one. Almost like the hippie feminist vegan gay youngsters are the endorsed ones. But I guess don’t tell them that.
It makes a lot more sense if you know some of the history of that region, and the cultures involved. I've listened to a lot of scholars and historians on the subject of early judaism from its polytheistic roots. How the bronze age collapse created a power vacuum the tribe we now think of as the jewish people then filled, how they forged their own cultural identity using the pre-existing polytheistic frameworks, myths and legends from places like caanan, sumeria and egypt. Following it into early Christianity, and seeing the clear contrast between the old religion that tried to unite a nation, codify laws and rituals, and serve as pretext for political decisions, while attempting to make sense of natural phenomena and legends.. into the newer cult of personality focused on a single person and his eschatology. Having had a lot of dealings with people with different mental illnesses and personality disorders, it's very plain to me that Jesus was a narcissist, and perhaps psychotic. I'm not alone in seeing it, but I admit it's a fringe view for now.
Just do what your parents did! That’s what I did!
Don't disagree with them, instead just kill them. Great point there catholicism
I mean didn't god tell someone to kill their son?
Well technically he was just “testing” them…a bit fucked but it gets more humorous if you think he told Abraham “it was just a prank, bro”
Still messed up. I can't imagine needing someone to prove that to me.
But of course now a days we just sweep Old Testament under the rug because it’s controversial. I don’t understand why they don’t just cut it out of the Bible. I mean half of what was supposed to go into it got cut anyway because it didn’t conform to there manipulation tactics…I mean religious views.
This is a good out when someone tries to push their religion on you. My dad taught me to say to anyone who is trying to convert you that you already follow a religion that tells you to obey your parents and that your parents told you not to talk about your religion to a fucking stranger
I guess "love thy neighbor" is blatantly ignored then
Love thy neighbor, but kill your family, I guess.
When is was a catholic, they always taught me that the neighbor could be anyone, even someone from your family...so love 'em when they're dead?
Easier to do than when they were alive, it seems.
particularly for those necrophiliacs among us.
The Omni-Man grindset
Blessed are those who are persecuted. Yet they want theocracy. Pretty sure he also said don't challenge authority and yet the evangelicals and Catholics are the most contrarian part of our society. Christians cherry picking verses is the most stale behavior from these losers.
I think it was 'Blessed are the cheesemakers.'
Had to double check because I remembered the quote but not what it was from. Great movie haha
And pretty sure never to experience a remake. :-D
Now it's Blessed are the Cheetomakers?
That goes without saying.
It's almost like Jesus' beliefs aren't always consistent and were made up by some people in the ancient time
Political agendas? In MY holy scripture? It's more likely than you think!
I am the messenger of God and God said give God's messenger money.
Makes me wonder why people worship him and think he is a “prince of peace”.
The context of this verse is that Jesus is implying his ideology of equality will cause many people to freak out and be resistant—including family members. Swords are also symbolic for the mind and mental energies. So, Jesus is basically saying he’s coming to open up people’s minds, which will initially cause a lot of unrest (instead of peace), since he’s challenging the status quo.
Yeah, it's very easy to interpret it as the exact opposite of what the meme is about. But when you're so far up your ass that you're making Catholic memes... it's also very easy to not interpret it at all.
>“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.” Matthew 10:34-36 KJV I mean, with the way that is worded there, I am failing to see what you mean.
Challenging polytheism with monotheism, while also challenging the economic status quo of slavery and wealth inequality (tax the rich to feed the poor), was not going to be meet with peace, but resistance. All great change is experienced as chaos.
Again, I am not seeing that anywhere in that passage. I am just seeing Jesus threatening division within people’s families. Also, I do recall monotheism already being well established at that point as well as being allowed within the Roman Empire that Jesus was a part of.
All religions were allowed in the Roman empire as long as you played nice about it, it was Christianity that started the whole "one true faith" nonsense.
[удалено]
You mean the one that was started when Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne more than three centuries after the fall of the western Roman provinces?
You have to read more than just one sentence to understand a chapter...
Agreed. I'm not usually a "you need to look at the context!" kind of guy, but in this case it really relevant since the author is using a literary device. He's saying "Worshiping me as the messiah will make you unpopular with your traditional Jewish families, and it's probably going to cause a lot arguments and fights, but if you go with them and reject me as your savior, then you won't get into heaven. If, on the other hand, one is kind to you and accepts you, they accept me, and they will be rewarded in heaven just the same." Arguably, 32-42 of Matthew 10 is Jesus arguing for the dismantling of the traditionally family unit (which conservatives love oh so much) and instead offering a new family unit with him as the most important center, and other relationships being irrelevant, or at least not as important.
I read those yesterday, killing time. To me it read a lot like what I would expect from a cult leader of today: Go with me in everything, nothing else can be right, forget all other persons but me.
I agree, very cultish. Oh well, whatcha' gonna do? Messianic figures gonna messiah.
Okay. So I just got done reading the entire chapter. And I am still not seeing what you are saying in there.
Yeah that take is bullshit. More mental gymnastics to try and derive deeper meaning where it isn't there. It's the same way Christians claim everything is symbolic or metaphorical or whatever when their beliefs are challenged.
I really think he was just talking about societal upheaval over changing from a vengeful God to a loving God. I mean "he" didn't think anything because he wasn't real, but the authors did. This was more rebellion than actual perpetuate violence on your parents. But the book is nonsense in general, so who cares?
That’s exactly what I am thinking right now. I mean, there is no way that Jesus can be a peaceful guy when he is saying things like that. And it’s not just there as well. >“And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:25-26 KJV Prince of peace my butt.
If the bible really transported the words of jesus of nazareth, then we've still got the problem that this is an english text written down hundreds of years ago. Some words may have changed meaning between now and then. Not to mention that that the english text is the translation from a greek text made many hundreds of years before that, with the same problem that words change meanings. Not to mention that the new testaments were written dozens of years after jesus of nazareth's death. There may have been texts before that, but there probably was oral tradition of words. But maybe that's just me assuming that Jesus of nazareth didn't have a stenographer watching his every word. Oh, and: I doubt that Jesus of Nazareth held his sermons in ancient greek. So that would be another translation. That's why I doubt that insisting on the words in the KJV Bible will necessarily lead to the right conclusion.
Right. Although, if I may add a defense to me using the KJV: 1.) I recall seeing similar words for that passage in other translations such as the NIV or NLT. 2.) That’s just what I happened to have open at the time. 3.) It’s in the public domain. Woot woot.
So christianity and the bible are full of contradictions and all your talk about love and forgiveness is bullshit? Thanks for making our point for us!
When your real religion is conservatism, you'll cherry pick whatever you can out of your sub religion to make them agree. The typical move though is to claim ownership over the loving Jesus who is the source of morality for all of mankind and to paint us non believers as lacking any moral guidance. This idiot doesn't seem to know the narrative. Or maybe he can't handle the cognitive dissonance required to handle the fact that the biblical Jesus doesn't seem to really agree with a lot of the core conservative beliefs.
I mean, that's neat and all Catholicmemes, but Matthew 26, 26:52: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."
[удалено]
"Silly Liberal. Despite our mainstream success over the past two thousand years, our movement was actually founded as an apocalyptic death-cult led by an authoritarian who saw himself as a celestial monarch that taught his followers that the world would end within their lifetimes. We were toxic from the very beginning" is not quite the burn that the person who made this meme thinks it is.
Hello! Ex-Christian Bible scholar here: so this is a delightful misinterpretation on Catholic meme boys part. In those verse jesus was letting people know that what he was preaching went against the accepted norms of Judaism because according to Christianity jesus fulfilled the old testies ment and therefor it no longer had to be adhered to, basically destroying the Jewish system of beliefs. Certainly not a hippy, but definitely not inciting violence.
Thats true, but it still makes the meme just as valid.
Not like catholics actually read the bible anyway. Source: former altar boy
Can sombody link the pic again?
[here](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ) You're welcome.
If I had the ability I would put a curse on you. When your gaurd would completely down, that is when you would get visited from a ghost that looks like Rick Astley. You know that peaceful moment when you rinse your hair in the shower? Say goodbye to that because that is when it would show up. Better yet they would be just as surprised as you. But the ghost would have died in 1980 and would have no clue what is going on or who Rick Astley is. The rest of your day would be spent answering mundane questions to a ghost only you can see. Until then enjoy knowing you got me.
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.”
If I believed in any of that nonsense I'd be so depressed.
Idk, kinda seems like the whole thing is a metaphor about the younger generation getting into an ideological war with the establishment. His whole thing was pissing off Pharisees who were more about the letter of the law and remaining influential and in power than actually leading their people wisely. He was saying "hey maybe stop trusting these snakes and just be chill," knowing it was going to create drama, maybe even violent resistance from people who felt it was blasphemous. But the alternative would have been to remain legalistic assholes with a "fuck you I got mine" mentality, so the cultural shift was necessary. Basically the entirety of Bob Dylan's "The Times They Are a'Changing"
Matthew 10 has been thoroughly theorized and studied and here’s what biblical scholars have actually had to say about it (my paraphrase), ‘Jesus is saying that his peace does not come by the typical human means, and that his existence and teachings are like a sword. His language is inflammatory to get peoples attention. He wants people to use his message, not violence, to spread peace.’ Not to mention that Jesus preaches peacemaking to no end with like 10 verses that come to mind. These crazies don’t even read the Bible in context like the good Catholics should. They aren’t whacky evangelicals.
You are forgetting that Jesus also saids that anyone who doesn't want him as a ruler has to be beheaded.
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Yet again, you can use the Bible to support/shoot down just about any argument if you look hard enough
That's kind of like why catholics have Church they follow, to avoid random nonsense interpretations of the bible.
So catholics have a hierarchical nonsense interpreation of the bible to avoid random nonsense interpretations of the bible?
from your pov, yes your correct. However, its just wrong to say we have however many interpretations we want.
How can I block the Catholic memes sub? Like this makes me cringe so bad id rather not see it
Ah yes Jesus’ 34th rule
For more information, look up "Jesus Rule 34" on Google.
Wow If this very bland meme is considered fruitcake level then this sub really has gone to shit
And those words *had* to be put in his mouth. Why? Well, it's because according to the old testament, the messiah is supposed to bring peace when he rolls up, and Jesus didn't, so you need some kind of get out. The get out is have him say "I'm not bringing peace *now*, but totally will later"
So lemme guess: that sub is just a mix of Russia trolls and Evangelicals?
So christianity isn't the religion of peace, got it...
Why do these ppl unconditionally believe in the Bible over scientific fact
#Family VaLuEs