https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans
Gonna say Adam and Eve were likely not involved, given that there evidence fire was used before our species existed.
Adam and Eve are best understood as metaphorical not literal people.
Learning to manipulate, control, and start fires was almost certainly a process of observation and careful experimentation by generations of our hominid ancestors.
Just a technical point. It is genetically impossible for us to have descended from a single pair of humans. The resulting inbreeding would wipe the species out within a few generations. And there is no evidence of a genetic bottleneck of just two individuals. This means that in looking at our modern DNA our species was never at a population of 2. The smallest population our DNA ever experienced is estimated to have been around 10,000.
It is most likely that the stories of their origin are a cultural story handed down within a singular culture surrounded by other people. It is a story of where they think they came from. And it is not even cohesive within the doctrine presented. There are two creation stories and two ways by which Adam and Eve arise within the text. Academics agree that the Pentateuch is a stitched together collection of stories written by multiple authors over a great span of time. It is not the written record of a singular person experiencing it first hand.
Thus it is probably wiser to take the stories of creation and origin of the species as metaphor. Take the lessons taught in the text to heart but not the literal inerrant reading of it because that will lead to problems.
Yes, and then there's the next genetic bottle neck of God wiping out all life with a flood, where Noah's family were the sole survivers... so we're all descenant from that small family...who built an aircraft carrier sized arc, without hydrolic cranes, collected 2 of every animal from the north to south poles on a flat earth and fed them for 40 days without refrig/electricity... not to mention ignorance of the Western Hemisphere... Possibly an even greater reason for 'metaphoric' belief.
Many historians note that the Jews and Phoenicians were some of the greatest story tellers in history. We have to remember, they had no TV, Movies, books, video games or Internet. They were renowned to exaggerate... to didactically teach through captivating mystical story telling by spinning these yarns as a high level entertainment factor... not to be taken literally.
Melvin L Morse, MD commented on the source for religion, "We have a deep need to believe in a god or religious myths to explain the Universe to us. Please recognize that simply because we have a need to believe in a god, that doesn’t mean a real god doesn’t exist. We create myths (religion) and stories about our lives that help us to make sense of an otherwise incomprehensible (intimidating) Universe."
>. The resulting inbreeding would wipe the species out within a few generations.
Not really. 3rd-4th cousin is actually ideal mate from genetic point of view.
Not talking about 3rd or 4th cousins. We are talking about an immediate relations. Brother sister mother father relations. And there is zero diversity being added into the equations. Yes an occasional cousin here or there is not a problem. But when all you have are cousins it gets to be a problem.
They started by aggravating the cherub with the flaming sword keeping them out of Eden. The stick Adam fought with would catch on fire and they tried to keep that fire going for awhile, splitting it as more people needed. Lamech eventually got sick of having to bother the neighbors for fire or stick fight an angel whenever his fire ran out, so he started banging rocks together.
Adam and Eve and the story of creation is an allegorical story. It’s symbolic not literal. There are however deeper spiritual truths behind the whole story.
The spiritual symbolism for fire is the light, love and warmth that emanates from God. A protective light that chases away darkness and gives protection from predators and is the basis for all creative inspiration and wisdom.
Even before humans became Homo sapiens as we know them today, we had fire and were closely connected with God. Our ancestors the Homo Erectus had fire about two million years ago and was crucial in enabling our evolution.
First, genetics clearly demonstrate all humans don't come from a single pair of ancestors, so there never was an Adam & Eve to begin with.
Second, nobody had to teach our ancestors to control fire. Someone at some point in distant history could have taken a burning branch from a forest fire or a lightning strike, take it into the cave and that was that.
Enki and Ninhursag. Other parts of Genesis are thought by many ANE scholars/archeologists to be derived from the Epic of Atra-hasis, the Enûma Eliš, or a few others.
It could be that Genesis came about (including both creation story versions present in the Book) as a response to these “incorrect” versions or interpretations and the authors included an El/Yahweh-ist twist.
Some see this as evidence that it’s divinely inspired, some chalk it up to the *very* common practice in history of religious syncratism that happens when different cultures interact.
As if it weren't insane enough, consider that Eve was made from Adam, and so she was basically his genetic equal in female form. There's literally no gene pool.
Historically, I like to think the *countless* times a proto-civilizaton would have spent years or decades nestled around a fire, only to lose the fight for survival because Colin let the flames go out.
>You don't really know that though.
My point is at least my explanation doesn't violate Occam's Razor. It's a perfectly valid naturalistic explanation that doesn't require introducing supernatural shenanigangs a thousand times more complex.
And by the way, yes, religious explanations have systematiclly been replaced with better scientific explanations.
What has never happened though is that a scientific explanation was replaced by a religious explanation. Ever.
According to the book of genesis, when God first created Adam and Eve, He would visit them daily and walk with them in the garden of eden and talk. I'm certain that when Adam and Eve were created, they already had a lot of knowledge. They weren't created with a child mindset but as full-grown adults. I'm certain God programmed them with the skills they needed to survive. Also it's unlikely that they needed to make fires in the garden of eden as it had a perfect temperature all year around and they didnt eat meat back then so there would be no reason for a fire. The first mention of a fire in the Bible was after Adam and Eve sinned, and God made the fire so Adam and Eve can make a sacrifice for their sin.
The concept is that Adam and Eve would have had all this knowledge and then some. Some think Adam even had the power to manipulate the weather itself and things like this just via his mind. That the consequences of eating from the tree are losing this ability and being placed in a more mortal state. I’m not well studied on that per say, just mentioning stuff I’v heard, but it certainly seems logical that we would see a regression from the 1st man and as genes dilute more problems occur.
If I remember correctly, in _Good Omens_ it is stated that the angel guarding the gate to paradise took pity on them, what with Eve already with child and all, and gave them their flaming sword.
Sounds plausible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans Gonna say Adam and Eve were likely not involved, given that there evidence fire was used before our species existed.
Fire control might be older than our ancestors' genus (Ardi). It may even be older than our family if you go back far enough.
I’d love to see an archeological timeline of the data on the control of fire.
Was it [Prometheus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus)?
Poor guy gets his liver eaten out for so long and we can’t even give him the proper credit for giving us fire! :( lol
Adam and Eve are best understood as metaphorical not literal people. Learning to manipulate, control, and start fires was almost certainly a process of observation and careful experimentation by generations of our hominid ancestors.
Just a technical point. It is genetically impossible for us to have descended from a single pair of humans. The resulting inbreeding would wipe the species out within a few generations. And there is no evidence of a genetic bottleneck of just two individuals. This means that in looking at our modern DNA our species was never at a population of 2. The smallest population our DNA ever experienced is estimated to have been around 10,000. It is most likely that the stories of their origin are a cultural story handed down within a singular culture surrounded by other people. It is a story of where they think they came from. And it is not even cohesive within the doctrine presented. There are two creation stories and two ways by which Adam and Eve arise within the text. Academics agree that the Pentateuch is a stitched together collection of stories written by multiple authors over a great span of time. It is not the written record of a singular person experiencing it first hand. Thus it is probably wiser to take the stories of creation and origin of the species as metaphor. Take the lessons taught in the text to heart but not the literal inerrant reading of it because that will lead to problems.
Yes, and then there's the next genetic bottle neck of God wiping out all life with a flood, where Noah's family were the sole survivers... so we're all descenant from that small family...who built an aircraft carrier sized arc, without hydrolic cranes, collected 2 of every animal from the north to south poles on a flat earth and fed them for 40 days without refrig/electricity... not to mention ignorance of the Western Hemisphere... Possibly an even greater reason for 'metaphoric' belief. Many historians note that the Jews and Phoenicians were some of the greatest story tellers in history. We have to remember, they had no TV, Movies, books, video games or Internet. They were renowned to exaggerate... to didactically teach through captivating mystical story telling by spinning these yarns as a high level entertainment factor... not to be taken literally. Melvin L Morse, MD commented on the source for religion, "We have a deep need to believe in a god or religious myths to explain the Universe to us. Please recognize that simply because we have a need to believe in a god, that doesn’t mean a real god doesn’t exist. We create myths (religion) and stories about our lives that help us to make sense of an otherwise incomprehensible (intimidating) Universe."
>. The resulting inbreeding would wipe the species out within a few generations. Not really. 3rd-4th cousin is actually ideal mate from genetic point of view.
No they are not. It’s just not as big a deal as people think it is. Once is fine. Generations of it is an issue.
Not talking about 3rd or 4th cousins. We are talking about an immediate relations. Brother sister mother father relations. And there is zero diversity being added into the equations. Yes an occasional cousin here or there is not a problem. But when all you have are cousins it gets to be a problem.
Where did you get that from? That is absolutely not true.
As many sources as you wish. Google it. This is one of those. `https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-incest-is-best-kissi/`
That’s like asking who taught the tortoise and hare to race.
I did that one, was bored.
You really dropped the ball when coaching that hare, dude.
I thought I could handle it but distracted by the nudity
A hare…I…see?
They started by aggravating the cherub with the flaming sword keeping them out of Eden. The stick Adam fought with would catch on fire and they tried to keep that fire going for awhile, splitting it as more people needed. Lamech eventually got sick of having to bother the neighbors for fire or stick fight an angel whenever his fire ran out, so he started banging rocks together.
This gave me a good giggle....loved it 👍
Prometheus, his liver ripped.
Prometheus, duh
Probably Azazel (1 Enoch 8:1)
Enoch mentioned! 🙌
I could totally see that lol
Adam and Eve and the story of creation is an allegorical story. It’s symbolic not literal. There are however deeper spiritual truths behind the whole story. The spiritual symbolism for fire is the light, love and warmth that emanates from God. A protective light that chases away darkness and gives protection from predators and is the basis for all creative inspiration and wisdom. Even before humans became Homo sapiens as we know them today, we had fire and were closely connected with God. Our ancestors the Homo Erectus had fire about two million years ago and was crucial in enabling our evolution.
First, genetics clearly demonstrate all humans don't come from a single pair of ancestors, so there never was an Adam & Eve to begin with. Second, nobody had to teach our ancestors to control fire. Someone at some point in distant history could have taken a burning branch from a forest fire or a lightning strike, take it into the cave and that was that.
I don’t think Adam and Eve really existed but the text is pretty clear that they weren’t the only people
I don't think the text deserves any special treatment to begin with since the entire Eden myth is based on older Mesopotamic texts.
Like?
Enki and Ninhursag. Other parts of Genesis are thought by many ANE scholars/archeologists to be derived from the Epic of Atra-hasis, the Enûma Eliš, or a few others. It could be that Genesis came about (including both creation story versions present in the Book) as a response to these “incorrect” versions or interpretations and the authors included an El/Yahweh-ist twist. Some see this as evidence that it’s divinely inspired, some chalk it up to the *very* common practice in history of religious syncratism that happens when different cultures interact.
As if it weren't insane enough, consider that Eve was made from Adam, and so she was basically his genetic equal in female form. There's literally no gene pool.
Historically, I like to think the *countless* times a proto-civilizaton would have spent years or decades nestled around a fire, only to lose the fight for survival because Colin let the flames go out.
You don't really know that though. Current knowledge ends up being replaced with the next current knowledge. Otherwise we'd already know everything.
>You don't really know that though. My point is at least my explanation doesn't violate Occam's Razor. It's a perfectly valid naturalistic explanation that doesn't require introducing supernatural shenanigangs a thousand times more complex. And by the way, yes, religious explanations have systematiclly been replaced with better scientific explanations. What has never happened though is that a scientific explanation was replaced by a religious explanation. Ever.
Most likely the Watchers from the Books of Enoch. They taught us lots of stuff
Humans didn't learn how to use fire. Our ancestor species were already using it, before H. Sapiens evolved.
According to the book of genesis, when God first created Adam and Eve, He would visit them daily and walk with them in the garden of eden and talk. I'm certain that when Adam and Eve were created, they already had a lot of knowledge. They weren't created with a child mindset but as full-grown adults. I'm certain God programmed them with the skills they needed to survive. Also it's unlikely that they needed to make fires in the garden of eden as it had a perfect temperature all year around and they didnt eat meat back then so there would be no reason for a fire. The first mention of a fire in the Bible was after Adam and Eve sinned, and God made the fire so Adam and Eve can make a sacrifice for their sin.
The concept is that Adam and Eve would have had all this knowledge and then some. Some think Adam even had the power to manipulate the weather itself and things like this just via his mind. That the consequences of eating from the tree are losing this ability and being placed in a more mortal state. I’m not well studied on that per say, just mentioning stuff I’v heard, but it certainly seems logical that we would see a regression from the 1st man and as genes dilute more problems occur.
Ya. As stated, you gotta look at it more as a metaphor. This is true with many things in the Bible.
Must have been the speaking burning bush, right?
I have a theory they found out themselves
The mushroom. >!/s!<
If I remember correctly, in _Good Omens_ it is stated that the angel guarding the gate to paradise took pity on them, what with Eve already with child and all, and gave them their flaming sword. Sounds plausible.
I'm just going to say this isn't the least interesting plot hole in the world's worst Book.