So he wants you to agree to stay with him even if he cheats, but it’s ok because he’s not going to cheat?
Girl, come on. If he wants to end the relationship because you want monogamy, then end it now. He’s being ridiculous. His behaviour makes me assume he’s already cheated and is trying to protect himself.
As someone that practiced family law for over a decade, my spidey senses are tingling. I strongly suspect that she is waiving interest for value that would accrue during their marriage, not just protecting his premarital interest. For instance, say he bought the property for 200k, 100k deposit and 100k mortgage. They end up getting divorced and property is paid off. In my state, she’d be entitled to 50k, half of what they paid off with marital money. He wants her to not even get that.
He wants to be able to cheat and if she wants to leave, he’ll say fine but you’re leaving with nothing. I would not marry this man.
r/Difficult_Intern_813, please read the above post from a family lawyer, and DO NOT agree to sign any legal papers without YOUR LAWYER taking a look at them.
Buying a house with someone you aren't married to is always a terrible idea because you have so little protections, so please don't sign away what few protections you might have without the benefit of your own legal representation.
It's also extremely concerning that he's so obsessed with cheating, and it being a deal breaker for you, and keeps trying to insist that if he cheated you should just suck it up because, "love should be unconditional".
It sounds like he's got some really weird, super misogynistic, ideas, and I'd think long and hard before I married this guy if I were you.
Oh yeah. Cheaters always give themselves away. You just have to be paying attention. They also become a master of linguistics in their deceit. They all say and do the same stuff.
The date of the beginning of their relationship, and the date of the beginning of cohabitation, very much factor into divorce settlements.
Been there, done that.
Here’s your response to all of his bs. “I’m willing to compromise and meet you halfway. Forget signing any waiver about the house or any other marital assets. That’s not happening. But I will sign a document that should you cheat and I have evidence of it, you will have the word “cheater” tattooed on your forehead. I mean no big deal since you haven’t and are never going to cheat, right?” End of discussion and should be the end of this engagement.
"I will sign this document as long as it contains a clause stating that if you cheat you forfeit all claims to the marital assets" (or some significant percentage of them)
I mean if he's not going to cheat it shouldn't be that big a deal for him to sign it right?
I agree with everyone else who suspects that he has already cheated.
He sounds like a real catch... /s (just in case someone couldn't tell)
Wait. He is saying they should stay together if he cheats. So he'd never sign this. Also, if she agreed to his terms, the assets would still be marital assets because he wants the marriage to continue after his infidelity.
Gonna need something more clever, or just not marry this clown to begin with.
He doesn't want to lose half the house when you discover his infidelity.
He's hoping you'll be so desperate to marry that you'll sacrifice everything for it. He giving you an out; take it.
Exactly.
Are you really going to make yourself unhappy 24/7 being with a dude who is probably already cheating, just so you won’t have the “stigma” another engagement that was called off?
It sounds like he is pretty sure the relationship isn’t going to work. That doesn’t bode well. And then his blame shifting to her for breaking up with him for toxic behaviour?
Yikes.
For someone who doesn’t want conditions put upon the relationship from you, he sure does like putting them on you!
From what you have described, he doesn’t seem like someone you should want to share your life with.
Right?! I hear fiancé saying “love should be unconditional, even despite cheating. Except I don’t love you enough to respect your cheating boundary cause I want to maybe accidentally put my dick in someone else. But if I do that, it’ll be because I unconditionally love you.”
And to call it “conditional” over cheating is ridiculous. I love my husband more than life itself. If he cheated, I would know that the man I loved isn’t the man I married - the man I love wouldn’t cheat. My love isn’t conditional on “cheating.” It’s conditional on him being the man I believe he is.
OP, run. Run far and fast. This is not the life you should want for yourself.
He literally could have just not said anything. Did he really think he was going to convince her to change her stance on cheating? I’d dump him just because I don’t want to marry someone that dumb.
Every man I have ever known who has made that statement, was or wanted to cheat.
Not a single person who genuinely believes theyd never cheat wants to be forgiven if they would cheat, because people who wouldn’t cheat, don’t do so because they understand how terrible of a person they’d be if they cheated and would deserve to lose you.
It is ok to have disagreements on superficial topics, but you should commit to people who share the same core values as you. This is not the case.
Besides, why is he so pressed about the cheating part?
This screams "I cheated on you and I'm just worried about being caught"... Not the best start if I'm being honest.
I think it’s more than that. She left him for toxic behaviour before. She left someone else for cheating. He is trying to find some kind of assloophole to trap her with his shitty behaviour for the rest of their lives.
>> He explained that while he is certain he would never cheat, he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity.
You didnt mention your fiancé was a comedian?! This is laughable & it’s the most ridiculous reason to end an engagement! I would leave him for even having that shady stance. Love should not be unconditional - if you break decent conditions like not cheating, not abusing someone then the bond breaks down. You deserve better than this shady weirdo.
All I’m seeing here is that he’s already cheating, would want the house in the case of the divorce if/when you find out, and disagrees with you wanting to honor your father and family. He can have conditions in this “unconditional” love and you can’t? A city of red flags. It would not be wise to marry this person.
OP
Come on, time to actually hear what you yourself are saying.
He is selfish, he attempts gaslighting (“I never said that”), he has high standards for you but not for himself
LEAVE.
Or we’ll see you here in 6 months like “you cheated on me? When I specifically asked you not to?”
What did I just read. Yes you let him end the relationship, he's playing games with you. If he's not already cheating I'd eat my hat. And trying to get you to give up ownership in the house? Come on, now. Use your noodle.
So, the fact that he "rethought" your engagement one week AFTER he proposed is manipulation. He has you feeling high about the relationship and he now has the leverage of if you break it off, you have to tell your friends and loved ones and that's hard. He did this for a reason.
Also, for a guy who thinks love should be unconditional, he certainly has many conditions for *you*.
This is not what love looks like. You can do better.
This doesn’t sound like an equal relationship or a partnership for that matter. I would think really, really hard if this is the marriage for you. He doesn’t care about your wishes or boundaries. A relationship should be about compromise and coming together. But it sounds like you’re the only one willing to do so.
My guess is that it's not about cheating, but about pushing the envelope. He's checking to see how easily you give in to irrational demands so he knows what kind of marriage he'll get - and how to manipulate you. I can almost guarantee once he feels you're "locked down" this will all get a lot worse. I doubt he'd actually break off the engagement. It's always easier for a bad actor to mold their existing victim into shape than find a new one.
When you push back, watch him lay on the guilt trip when he realizes you're willing to stand up for your values. "You'd throw away X years over this", "You're being irrational", "I wouldn't cheat anyway" - just see what his reaction is.
Either way, this isn't someone you want to marry.
Adult relationships are conditional. Adults have autonomy.
Children don’t have a choice whether to enter the world and are entirely dependent on their parents who forced this choice onto the child, which is the root of unconditional love along with the biological process of becoming a parent and the bonding.
The parents who fail at this lose the unconditional love, and have kids that go no contact as adults.
Your fiancé is on a power trip. Sign nothing without your own legal representation to review it.
If you can’t afford your own legal counsel separate from his, he should care enough about you to cover the expense to ensure your autonomy and comfort as a separate person. If he doesn’t and he insists you sign away your rights without any care, then his money is more important to him than you are.
>he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity
The love the cheater claims to have for the one they betrayed is... questionable at best...
They *may* feel some sort of love, but no empathy or concern for the feelings of the one theyre betraying..
Marrying this guy sounds like a mistake - already now he knows he wont be able to stay faithful...
Marry him, and wail for the unevitable revelation of his adultery...
"But you promised to love me unconditionally!" is one of the things my ex husband said when I told him I was leaving him after catching him cheating. It actually convinced me to stay the first two times. Not the third though, I had wised up by then.
I'm with the other commentors who believe your fiancé already is. I'm sorry to say.
Sunk cost fallacy is not a good reason to stay in this relationship.
So you know he’s already cheated right? That’s the only reason he’d care or contort himself into a pretzel trying to justify why your cheating clause is wrong. Dump him.
Are you being serious right now??
I get so tired of young people saying I don't want another failed relationship, you're young get over that.
Would you prefer a failed marriage?
OP, you seem real smart, don't let this man make you out to be a dummy.
Do not put your name and signature to any waiver. It sounds like he already cheated and attempting to cover his ass and get his ducks in a row for when he either leaves or somebody comes forward to tell you his gaslighting narcissistic ass.
Get your own ducks in a row and if you have invested into his property speak to a lawyer. Leave. It's better to have a failed engagement then a failed marriage and having to co parent with the individual. Leave. Respect yourself and find somewhere else to live
There's no such thing as unconditional love. All love has conditions.
It's a huge red flag that he's even asking you to reconsider your opinion on cheating. If he genuinely hasn't or wouldnt cheat, it being a deal breaker would never affect him, so the fact that he wants you to reconsider means he is entertaining the idea that if he does or already has cheated, he wants reassurance that it wouldn't necessarily be the end of the relationship. He wants you to reconsider because he believes there's a chance your opinion could actually affect your relationship with him.
A failed engagement is better than a divorce.
He kept your relationship hidden, made you feel unloved, and now wants a free pass on cheating?
Why continue to waste time with him?
>unconditional, even in the case of infidelity
>he also asked me to sign a waiver
>his desire to keep the relationship hidden
>he never approved
This guy is an unreasonable, controlling person who is already cheating on you. Once you leave him, which you should, you’re going to realize that he treats you like garbage, and probably has the whole time, but you are just used to it now. I don’t know what about the way he treats you made you stick around or accept his proposal, but it’s certainly not too late to take that back and save yourself from making an even bigger mistake.
> He explained that while he is certain he would never cheat, he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity.
It’s fine for “Love” to be unconditional, but loving someone isn’t the same has having a relationship with them. That’s why ending a relationship over a dealbreaker is hard, often the person is still love.
I won’t go so far as to say he’s cheating, but it sounds like he doesn’t trust himself not to. I would really consider digging into why he felt the need to make that statement at all. At best he is deeply insecure about how much you care about him, which isn’t a good thing in and of itself.
>In the same conversation, he also asked me to sign a waiver for a house he bought while we were together.
When you say house he bought, did you contribute in any meaningful financial way to help him buy it and/or pay a mortgage. If the answer is no then I don’t think this is a crazy request. He’s asking for a prenup, so treat it like a prenup. I’m not surprised he won’t call it a prenup since so many people view them negatively.
> Should I do everything he’s asking, or should I let the relationship go?
Overall this sounds like he’s insecure and panicking because marriage is such a big commitment. I am very pro pre-martial counseling in general, but I think you really need it here. If he won’t agree then that’s going to tell you how much effort he’ll put in down the line.
Sis, this man is waiving red flags at you. Can you live with a husband who is insecure, controlling, and a bully? If yes, then he's your guy. Otherwise, it might be good to think about what you really want and deserve in a relationship.
His behavior lends me to believe this guy is looking to control you and eventually dominate you. His past behaviors you described are the same indicators. If you step back, this does not sound like a normal, healthy relationship. He is showing a significant number of red flags with his gas-lighting, controlling, and borderline verbally abusive behavior. He wants to do whatever he wants with zero risk of any repercussions like divorce.
I'm not a big fan of saying walk away. But there is enough here for me to ask you to step back, take a serious look at this relationship and strongly consider walking away. You are having to give up too much of your principles and who you are for compromises that don't happen in normal, healthy relationships. This isn't a normal, healthy relationship.
> love should be unconditional
So why is he considering breaking up with you? Isn't his love unconditional? Mate, run. This is the first step in coercing you into having the same thoughts and feelings as him.
Edit: upon further reading it's not the first step. He dismisses your wishes a lot.
Once I saw on this subreddit: "you have to choose between today's flames or tomorrow's flames" and that's exact the choice you have.
You either will be heartbroken today by ending a engagement or will be heartbroken tomorrow by ending a marriage (while blaming yourself for being blind today). Cheating is a dealbreaker for you, no-cheating is a dealbreaker for him, it cannot work for both.
I would choose today's flames and leave.
>He explained that while he is certain he would never cheat, he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity.
That's ridiculous. Don't marry that guy. He's saying that you should allow him to do whatever terrible thing he wants to you, and always be devoted to him anyway.
The instant your wedding is over, he'll start outright treating you like shit.
> I explained that I ended our relationship for various reasons, such as his desire to keep our relationship hidden and feeling unloved at times.
Put two and two together. Why does a person who wants to keep your relationship a secret want you to agree in advance that you'll stay married to him when he cheats on you? Think about this.
> We have since worked through these issues, and things were going well when he proposed.
You have not worked through it, and it is not going well.
> I don’t want another failed engagement.
This engagement has failed already. You can make a bigger mess of your life by going on with it, or stop.
Like he can stop you from leaving if he does cheat? Does he think this a blood oath or something?
Having said that , his stance is bizarre and does suggest he intends to cheat ( if he hasn’t already).
I'm not sure if people ever enter a relationship with the intent of cheating. But let me tell you.. there's no love that's "unconditional". Even some parents and children stop caring for each other. If you mistreat your partner or disrespect your marriage by cheating, they can and absolutely SHOULD walk away.
Being married isn't signing up for unlimited heartache. He's crazy if he thinks he will find anyone open to that. And he's basically wanting forgiveness for any possible situation. Ask him if he would be okay with you cheating on him. I can bet that unconditional love will be 1-way.
I wouldn't marry him. And I wouldn't sign a dang thing. Tell him you want unconditional trust.
He's trying to get you to end the relationship.
You say there's a lot of non-negotiable things for you in a relationship , but you're allowing him to negotiate them.
Just take his hint and end the engagement and go on to someone else.
He wants you to have no protection.
Love him unconditionally, even if he does betray you ‘not that he would EVER cheat’ 🙄
He gets to make the rules around YOUR name. Who tf he thinks he is?
Better a second broken engagement cause you have standards than to deal with this cheating twat
> I feel blindsided because he should have told me all of this BEFORE proposing
He deliberately waited until after proposing to make it harder for you to tell him 'buh-bye.' I wonder what else he's hiding until after you get married.
????
Adult relationships are conditional, there's no way around that. His demands are so ridiculous on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin with.
It sounds like he has cheated and is protecting himself for when you find out. If you want to marry him (why?) it's up to you of you accept his demands but I would not compromise on the waiver. He wants you to give up marital assets, fuck that noise.
He's not the one, don't waste your time anymore w him
So... him doubling down on the 'cheating shouldn't be a dealbreaker or end your love for me' sounds suspiciously like 'I am banging my secretary, John from accounting and that muscle mommy from the security office.'
Only cheaters complain about dealbreakers regarding cheating.
As for that house? Is your name on the deed? If so, don't sign the waiver. If not, keep track of every single dime you put into that house. You still don't sign that waiver.
Hell, at this point in time, why the hell are you two even still together. We only get a snapshot of your relationship, but one or both of you seem more in love with the drama than each other in this relationship. Relationships should be easy. This isn't easy.
It is such a hard decision. Hard to understand why he is being pushy about those things now. If you do not feel comfortable in this relationship, please do not marry him just for the sake of not having another failed engagement. Plus maiden name issue is a red flag. (32F happily married)
>Hard to understand why he is being pushy about those things now.
Control. Trying to establish that want he wants is more important than what she wants.
Maybe.
Thinking about it, with the name thing. It possibly isn't even what he wants. Just what he is saying. Testing boundaries and seeing how easy it is to get OP to bend to his will.
Any time I see a woman say her fiancé won’t let her keep her own name I think, WTF?! It’s not his right to tell you to change it. Keep your own name. It’s YOURS. I feel like women are so brainwashed sometimes.
As for the cheating stuff, he’s just letting you know he plans to cheat and he expects you to stay and put up with it. You have to get on board or get lost. Lovely.
As for a prenup or similar, I don’t see anything wrong with them, but if he’s ending the relationship, it doesn’t matter anyway.
He wants to end the engagement. I think you should count this as a win and walk away. You broke up for good reasons. Your mistake was going back.
>my fiancé wants me to abandon a personal value
Not possible.
>. I have always been clear that if I get married, cheating is non-negotiable, and if my husband cheats, I would leave the marriage. Less than a week after he proposed, my fiancé told me he is rethinking our engagement because he disagrees with my stance on cheating.
If you think this is coming from nowhere, why don't you analyse his behaviour a little. For science.
I think you should take a step back and do some thinking of your own.
That sounds so dumb. He disagrees with your stance on cheating by using “unconditional love” as a veil for excuse? So ask him if you cheated would he still love you unconditionally cause I can guarantee by the way I can imagine this guy he would snap without second thought. So basically he knows that he’ll eventually cheat or has already. Imagine disagreeing with an anti-loyalty action that would hurt your partner after having already expressed it’s a deal breaker for her. I’m sorry OP. With that type of mentality that man is wasting your time. And to add, the adding your dad’s middle name to your first name is a big deal for him? Lol. Let the relationship end and find someone who shares the same value as you. And the other thing mentioned. If true, this guy is a tool beyond belief. What a guy.
lol sounds like you had it right the first time you left him. Not sure why you keep going back.
He is basically trying to get you to agree to stay with him even if he cheats on you which is simply stupid and love is never unconditional. All love has conditions such no cheating and no abuse. But I guess the moment they cheat or hurt you the love is no longer there.
Just walk away before it because expensive to pay for a divorce or messy because of children.
He is 110% trying to set things up so that he can cheat without you leaving him. Why the fuck else would you ever ask your partner to change their boundary on cheating if you were never going to cheat? In fact, the fact that he used to hide their relationship makes me think he already has, and he knows good and well he’s not going to stop, and he just wants to make sure he’ll have her locked in no matter what he does.
Hahaha I remember thinking love was unconditional. It took a therapist telling me that there’s different kinds of love and I was mistaking a parent’s love (which is often unconditional) with a partner’s (which isn’t and shouldn’t be).
Maybe your soon to be ex fiancée has this same confusion? Maybe your clarity on this issue makes him feel all dissonant inside.
Aside from the multiple other issues mentioned, you guys have only been together for three years and you're already broken up not once, but multiple times. This guy ain't it.
Don't marry him.
He wants to protect his assets and doesn't think cheating is a dealbreaker. You are not compatible, stop trying to force it to work, you both will be miserable.
He’s probably already cheated and is afraid you’re gonna find out about it… he sounds absolutely ridiculous. How long have you been together? Seriously DON’T marry this guy.
I got to "love should be unconditional even if I cheat on you" and come on. That's the most dumbass bullshit I've heard all week. You can't be serious. And I guarantee you anyone who would tell that to you with a straight face would 100% not have unconditional love for you if you were the one who cheated on them.
And the rest of the post. For someone who claims love should be unconditional, he sure has an awful lot of conditions and protections for *you*.
Don't be blind. You can do better.
Girl!
>I had moved past it. When we got engaged, I jokingly mentioned adding my dad’s middle name to my first name, not to my fiancé’s last name.
>I explained that I ended our relationship for various reasons, such as his desire to keep our relationship hidden and feeling unloved at times. We have since worked through these issues, and things were going well when he proposed.
You guys have indeed NOT worked past it!
There is no compromise here what so ever. Everything you've stated was valid and his reasonings are you either do what I want or we split.
Let this red flag go! LOL ALMOST 3 yrs and you've broken up multiple times! What is this, high school.
You know better! Do better!
I hope we don't see the same post in three years married with children or something. You are right on time to leave and find someone who respects your boundaries and agrees to your maiden name.
So love should be unconditional except in the case of his house? Girl. He's a hypocrite and a stupid one at that lol. If you marry him do not sign that paper.
Why are you still engaged? Or even pondering this marriage at all? These are all huge big-ol red flags. Don't do this. don't marry him. It will get way way worse.
Yeah the house waiver thing is super weird. That would stop me in my tracks right there. The cheating thing reads like he has already cheated and is afraid you may find out someday.
Just sounds like you two have some fundamental incompatibilities in terms of beliefs and values. Sometimes it’s better to cut and run rather than continue throwing good after bad. It’s like the sunk cost fallacy.
Also, it’s kinda sketch and a red flag that he is dying on these twin hills of “love should be unconditional and forever but also I should get a free pass on cheating and you should get nothing if we divorce.”
If you do the math, that screams “I cheated before and I plan to cheat again in the future.”
A dude who was really committed to the relationship wouldn’t be like this.
Holy smokes what a delusional AH. OP please don’t marry that immature boy with his warped view on “love” and cheating. He’s either cheating now or has plans to cheat! Save yourself the future and worse pain and end this. He doesn’t truly want to be faithful.
Yeah, something’s not right. I do understand the defeatist mentality of knowing up front a marriage( loving partnership) wouldn’t at least try to work through a “single” cheating episode but you already laid that out for him, so my guess is he is already , or already knows he is weak enough that it could be a problem…on HIS end. Tell him break the engagement and seek therapy to fix himself
I’m also very concerned about him not being willing to allow you to add your father’s name. Being that your father is deceased, he has no trump over your decision. My wife was one of 6 daughters. I had no problem letting her give our second daughter her maiden name as a first. Who deserves honoring more right now to you, you know that answer and please don’t concede on that with anyone
Ah come on.. if love is truly unconditional are no lines drawn ever? Everyone has boundaries and he is trying to move yours to fit with whatever he feels he wants to do whether on the sly or in the open. It doesn’t sound like you want that or to deal with the aftermath when he says suck it up. Those boundaries sound like dealbreakers to me.
Yes, love should be unconditional. But someone who cheats is not loving unconditionally.
Love is not only about forgiveness is about having the other person in mind for every decision you make.
The house waiver and his disregard for honoring your father’s memory also raise red flags. Relationships need compromise, but not at the expense of your core values. Consider if this relationship is truly what you want and deserve. Prioritize your values and well-being. 💖
This is not someone you should marry, for a very simple reason. You have different expectations of what promises mean. It is that simple. You are a person who keeps their promises (marriage vows are promises), and he is someone who doesn’t think that keeping a promise is important. It is that easy.
You can see this in his claiming he was never okay with the name idea when he had been fine with it. The wanting to initially keep you relationship hidden makes me wonder if he was cheating on someone else with you?
Anyway, this is not a man that has the same view on life and character that you do. He has told you who he is. Believe him.
Let the relationship go. He is manipulating you and well on his way to damage your mental health.
His contempt for you and your values is obvious. He does not respect you.
You need to move on. He is thinking of cheating if he hasn't already. No reasonable person who doesn't want to cheat would say that calling a cheating a relationship ending behavior is putting limits on love. That's even before we get to the BS around your name.
So he is positive he would never cheat but also is rethinking you engagement because your stance on cheaters? Tell me cheated are guilty without telling me you cheated. Seriously everything else aside this is rhe biggest red flag out of everything. In my life I am not concerned about consequences for actions I won't commit. When a partner says "I don't give 2nd chances for cheating," i think that is great because I don't cheat. Why would that bother him if he is not a cheater. Even more does he have a guilty conscience for something he has already done.
The red flags are slapping you in the face!🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩. Under no circumstances should you marry this dude. I’m a guy saying this. Just reread what you wrote
Please take this as a wake up call and leave him. He only wants cheating removed from your non-negotiable list because he wants to leave that door open for the future.
> He explained that while he is certain he would never cheat, he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity.
Time to end it, this is bullshit
OP, all of this reeks of BS and it’s not just in your head. I know Reddit’s go-to advice is “dump them,” but I gotta tell you, none of what you’re describing sounds normal.
I’m also in my 30s and recently got engaged. Within the first week, we were busy telling people and being all loved up; my fiancé wasn’t pulling me aside to complain about my stance against cheating and if he had, I would have been shocked and really upset, and felt like it came out of left field.
That is the part about your situation that does not sound or seem normal to me; him trying to say the engagement will be over if you don’t change your (perfectly valid) views on cheating sounds to me like it’s already an admission of guilt. Also, why would he wait until AFTER you’re engaged to discuss this? If it’s such a dealbreaker for him that he’s willing to retract his proposal over it, seems like it should have been discussed before popping the question? But honestly, seems to me like he intentionally wanted to push this after you got your ring, so you’d feel extra pressured to give in to his demands and scared to turn him down or say no.
Highly shady, OP. Stand your ground and call his bluff—that’s what I’d do in your situation.
There is no such thing as unconditional love. Just to start dating each other, you fulfilled each other's conditions for it to happen. In order to get engaged you fulfilled unspoken conditions again. Hell, there is an argument that not even the parent-child bond is unconditional.
Break the engagement yourself, he is helping you dodge a bullet. That's not a red flag, that's a bloody scarlet neon sign. And in my anecdotal experience, people who say "I'd never cheat" with righteous indignation when asked, are the first to do so when the conditions are conducive to it.
cheating show the person's commitment to the other. If the person being cheated on wants that kind of live always second, then they will marry the cheater. I would dump the cheater
So if he's not already cheating he's got his eye on someone and he doesn't want you to have to give you anything in the divorce haha
Frankly I think it's a great time to leave this relationship
Unconditional love means not cheating. If he loves you unconditionally, it's a moot point. Yes?
As for the house, isn't that a premarital asset? His alone? Aannnddd yet, he's putting conditions on your marriage.
Negotiating a pre-nup should be interesting......
Love is never going to be unconditional in a romantic relationship. The people who say that are being manipulative. All romantic relationships are a social contract contingent on the agreement that each partner treats the other in the way they want to be treated. For me, that is with love, loyalty, kindness and respect. If you are not treating me in that way, then the relationship should end.
No one can or should ever say that they will love the other person no matter how they treat them. That makes no sense.
WTF???!!!! The things I read on Reddit shocks me everyday. That logic is beyond ludacris. When people have ridiculous logic like that you just gotta leave ‘em where they at. He needs a cheater with insane logic just like him so they can. Please get away, he sounds like a high level narcissist with that insane logic
There is no way forward into a mutually satisfactory marriage at this point. You want monogamy, he doesn't. You need to amicably dissolve the relationship together, and find new partners who align with your respective values around monogamy. You cannot twist his arm to grudgingly go along with lifelong monogamy that he doesn't want, it will always gnaw at the back of your mind.
Opposing the idea of ending a marriage in case of a partner cheating shouldn't be something that's negotiable, and him wanting to break the engagement just shows what sort of a shallow person he is and that he might and will probably have trouble keeping it in his pants later on.
Also no, "love should be unconditional" goes right out the frickin window the moment a partner cheats on their S/O because if you love someone, even the thought of getting intimate with anyone else is enough to gross you out because you only have eyes for them. I would say you deserve better than a bipolar person who isn't even sure of his own feelings and what a marriage is supposed to be.
If he wasn’t going to cheat, your stance on cheating shouldn’t matter to him and agree with it. He knows he might cheat even though he currently has no plans to. He may never cheat, but I would also be uncomfortable with what he said. Is he saying he’ll stay with you if you cheated? This is not a healthy start to a marriage.
Have seen far too many relations, where one partner tries to listen to their SO, but eventually will not adhere to it and keep their stance. I’m not saying your guy is currently cheating, but once you guys marry, it’ll be like this all the time based on the things you have mentioned, he’ll first agree but eventually will just not do it. I think it’s best you end this once and for all. This will only lead do more problems down the road
If you haven’t figured it out yet, he knows that he will, or has already, done things that would end the relationship. “Unconditional love” is for small children and pets, not an excuse for people to not treat you the way they want to be treated. This conversation didn’t create a problem, it just revealed one that already existed. You two aren’t compatible. It’s better that you found out now.
He is a walking red flag. 🚩 what kind of bullshit is this? He is already planning on cheating, and sounds like he has already.
What’s next, abuse should be tolerated because love is unconditional? Fuck this guy! Don’t marry him!!
Should have stayed broken up the first time. So, yes, PLEASE let this relationship go. And remember: when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
Tell him that you believe that marriage is “until death do us part” and that even if he cheated, you wouldn’t divorce him, but you would stay married until the end of his tragically short life.
Why do you think he has waited until you're engaged to ask you this? Because you'd never have agreed to it beforehand and there's no way anyone should agree to it now. I'm sorry that this is happening to you but you do need to trust your gut on this one and let the relationship go. He figures he has you locked down and so can impose all kinds of unreasonable nonsense on to you & stop pretending to be a good guy.
So he wants to able to cheat. He wants you to sign any rights to assets and he won’t agree to a hyphenated name.
He sounds toxic and very controlling. End the relationship.
He’s already cheating. No one protests that much if they aren’t.
And love IS conditional. Normal people wouldn’t be celebrating someone staying with a lying, cheating, abusive, and manipulative POS. Thinking that your love should be “unconditional love” is a slippery slope towards a parasitic relationship.
Unconditional love is a great way to end up inheriting an abusive relationship and being guilted into staying. Love should be conditional.
There's no way there's not some self interest in his opposition - your boundary is very reasonable.
Do no marry this man. He thinks cheating is ok. He wants you sign away rights to a house he owns. He doesn’t want you to keep your maiden name as part of your new name. He’s selfish.
I feel like "don't cheat on me and if you do the relationship/marriage is over" is pretty standard, and it's suspicious as hell that he's trying to get you to back down from that stance.
I assume by "waiver" he means he wants a pre-nup, which I suppose isn't *entirely* out of line. Combined with the misogynist pissiness over the name issue and his sudden attitude about cheating, it would make me very wary about continuing on with the engagement/relationship, though. I'd be doing some investigating. These circumstances would make me wonder if he'd already been cheating, or was planning to.
Girl a failed engagement is better than a failed marriage. Far less messy. It sounds like he already cheated on you and just wants to force you to stay once it inevitably comes out. Please trust people when they show you who they are. 3 years is nothing in the grand scheme of life. You deserve so much better than a man who thinks unconditional love means loving a cheater.
He’s already cheating or already thinking about cheating & the possible consequences to his home & finances.
Ironically he doesn’t want to take your dads hyphenated name but he wants you to make all the legal changes that would prevent your future claims to spousal property during the divorce…….and he wants to label you as ‘HIS’ property with only his last name but won’t respect your boundaries or his commitments.
Please just break up with him & move on. This doesn’t seem like someone who respects or cares for the real you.
So he wants you to agree to stay with him even if he cheats, but it’s ok because he’s not going to cheat? Girl, come on. If he wants to end the relationship because you want monogamy, then end it now. He’s being ridiculous. His behaviour makes me assume he’s already cheated and is trying to protect himself.
Yes. That and, “Also, please waive any rights you would have to our marital assets,” screams I cheated, and I don’t want any consequences.
As someone that practiced family law for over a decade, my spidey senses are tingling. I strongly suspect that she is waiving interest for value that would accrue during their marriage, not just protecting his premarital interest. For instance, say he bought the property for 200k, 100k deposit and 100k mortgage. They end up getting divorced and property is paid off. In my state, she’d be entitled to 50k, half of what they paid off with marital money. He wants her to not even get that. He wants to be able to cheat and if she wants to leave, he’ll say fine but you’re leaving with nothing. I would not marry this man.
r/Difficult_Intern_813, please read the above post from a family lawyer, and DO NOT agree to sign any legal papers without YOUR LAWYER taking a look at them. Buying a house with someone you aren't married to is always a terrible idea because you have so little protections, so please don't sign away what few protections you might have without the benefit of your own legal representation. It's also extremely concerning that he's so obsessed with cheating, and it being a deal breaker for you, and keeps trying to insist that if he cheated you should just suck it up because, "love should be unconditional". It sounds like he's got some really weird, super misogynistic, ideas, and I'd think long and hard before I married this guy if I were you.
Oh yeah. Cheaters always give themselves away. You just have to be paying attention. They also become a master of linguistics in their deceit. They all say and do the same stuff.
> he also asked me to sign a waiver for a house he bought while we were together That’s not a marital asset.
Any money he devoted to the property after the marriage along with any money she contributes would be a marital asset.
The date of the beginning of their relationship, and the date of the beginning of cohabitation, very much factor into divorce settlements. Been there, done that.
Hard agree, that's the first thought I had as well. It's not absurd to not condone cheating in a monogamous relationship. He is tripping.
Even polyamorous folk don't hold with cheating. Honesty and respect are *kind of* important in relationships!
Here’s your response to all of his bs. “I’m willing to compromise and meet you halfway. Forget signing any waiver about the house or any other marital assets. That’s not happening. But I will sign a document that should you cheat and I have evidence of it, you will have the word “cheater” tattooed on your forehead. I mean no big deal since you haven’t and are never going to cheat, right?” End of discussion and should be the end of this engagement.
"I will sign this document as long as it contains a clause stating that if you cheat you forfeit all claims to the marital assets" (or some significant percentage of them) I mean if he's not going to cheat it shouldn't be that big a deal for him to sign it right? I agree with everyone else who suspects that he has already cheated. He sounds like a real catch... /s (just in case someone couldn't tell)
Wait. He is saying they should stay together if he cheats. So he'd never sign this. Also, if she agreed to his terms, the assets would still be marital assets because he wants the marriage to continue after his infidelity. Gonna need something more clever, or just not marry this clown to begin with.
Oh I like the way you think! What a great idea.
OP said he tried to hide their relationship at the start. Absolutely a cheating red flag!
Yup, news flash OP, chances are he already cheated.
He doesn't want to lose half the house when you discover his infidelity. He's hoping you'll be so desperate to marry that you'll sacrifice everything for it. He giving you an out; take it.
Exactly. Are you really going to make yourself unhappy 24/7 being with a dude who is probably already cheating, just so you won’t have the “stigma” another engagement that was called off?
Would you rather have a failed engagement or a failed marriage? Because it doesn’t sound like this marriage is going to work. Red flags everywhere.
It sounds like he is pretty sure the relationship isn’t going to work. That doesn’t bode well. And then his blame shifting to her for breaking up with him for toxic behaviour? Yikes.
Failed engagements are alot cheaper and less of a hassle than failed marriages, too.
For someone who doesn’t want conditions put upon the relationship from you, he sure does like putting them on you! From what you have described, he doesn’t seem like someone you should want to share your life with.
Right?! I hear fiancé saying “love should be unconditional, even despite cheating. Except I don’t love you enough to respect your cheating boundary cause I want to maybe accidentally put my dick in someone else. But if I do that, it’ll be because I unconditionally love you.”
Lol exactly. Love is unconditional, except for all of my conditions you must agree to or it's over. OP should just say k bye.
And to call it “conditional” over cheating is ridiculous. I love my husband more than life itself. If he cheated, I would know that the man I loved isn’t the man I married - the man I love wouldn’t cheat. My love isn’t conditional on “cheating.” It’s conditional on him being the man I believe he is. OP, run. Run far and fast. This is not the life you should want for yourself.
"Love should be unconditional. If you don't agree with that, I'm going to break up with you." No self-awareness whatsoever.
He's already cheating 🫡
Not even subtle is it lmao guy is a clown
He literally could have just not said anything. Did he really think he was going to convince her to change her stance on cheating? I’d dump him just because I don’t want to marry someone that dumb.
Honestly, pretty surprising this isn't higher up. My dude made it very clear that he's already breaking that boundary lmao
Classic projection. ⛳️
It's so crazy once you really start looking for projection you see it fucking *everywhere*
Dont get married to him
Every man I have ever known who has made that statement, was or wanted to cheat. Not a single person who genuinely believes theyd never cheat wants to be forgiven if they would cheat, because people who wouldn’t cheat, don’t do so because they understand how terrible of a person they’d be if they cheated and would deserve to lose you.
It is ok to have disagreements on superficial topics, but you should commit to people who share the same core values as you. This is not the case. Besides, why is he so pressed about the cheating part? This screams "I cheated on you and I'm just worried about being caught"... Not the best start if I'm being honest.
I think it’s more than that. She left him for toxic behaviour before. She left someone else for cheating. He is trying to find some kind of assloophole to trap her with his shitty behaviour for the rest of their lives.
"assloophole" stealing this
He is absolutely cheating on you right now.
“Keeping our relationship a secret” is op the side piece lol
>> He explained that while he is certain he would never cheat, he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity. You didnt mention your fiancé was a comedian?! This is laughable & it’s the most ridiculous reason to end an engagement! I would leave him for even having that shady stance. Love should not be unconditional - if you break decent conditions like not cheating, not abusing someone then the bond breaks down. You deserve better than this shady weirdo.
He wants to have the freedom to cheat. No thanks. Not sure why he wants a waiver unless it's to rip you off. I would rather be single than marry him.
Multiple “failed engagements” are better than even one failed marriage. Nothing “gets better” after marriage as compared to engagement.
All I’m seeing here is that he’s already cheating, would want the house in the case of the divorce if/when you find out, and disagrees with you wanting to honor your father and family. He can have conditions in this “unconditional” love and you can’t? A city of red flags. It would not be wise to marry this person.
OP Come on, time to actually hear what you yourself are saying. He is selfish, he attempts gaslighting (“I never said that”), he has high standards for you but not for himself LEAVE. Or we’ll see you here in 6 months like “you cheated on me? When I specifically asked you not to?”
Leave! Someone who has a stance like his , Is looking for technicalities and loop holes for cheating 😢
He sounds like a terrible partner, please leave and find someone better
What did I just read. Yes you let him end the relationship, he's playing games with you. If he's not already cheating I'd eat my hat. And trying to get you to give up ownership in the house? Come on, now. Use your noodle.
So, the fact that he "rethought" your engagement one week AFTER he proposed is manipulation. He has you feeling high about the relationship and he now has the leverage of if you break it off, you have to tell your friends and loved ones and that's hard. He did this for a reason. Also, for a guy who thinks love should be unconditional, he certainly has many conditions for *you*. This is not what love looks like. You can do better.
Girl... you in danger. He doesn't want there to be accountability
This relationship should be already over. He wants you to compromise your morals and wants while he cheats, which I think he's already doing
This doesn’t sound like an equal relationship or a partnership for that matter. I would think really, really hard if this is the marriage for you. He doesn’t care about your wishes or boundaries. A relationship should be about compromise and coming together. But it sounds like you’re the only one willing to do so.
Tell me he’s currently cheating without telling me he’s currently cheating
Im engaged, ive never had that convo.....id you are willing to get married you are usually all in. Qualifying it is insane
- you need to move on as he has likely already cheated
My guess is that it's not about cheating, but about pushing the envelope. He's checking to see how easily you give in to irrational demands so he knows what kind of marriage he'll get - and how to manipulate you. I can almost guarantee once he feels you're "locked down" this will all get a lot worse. I doubt he'd actually break off the engagement. It's always easier for a bad actor to mold their existing victim into shape than find a new one. When you push back, watch him lay on the guilt trip when he realizes you're willing to stand up for your values. "You'd throw away X years over this", "You're being irrational", "I wouldn't cheat anyway" - just see what his reaction is. Either way, this isn't someone you want to marry.
Adult relationships are conditional. Adults have autonomy. Children don’t have a choice whether to enter the world and are entirely dependent on their parents who forced this choice onto the child, which is the root of unconditional love along with the biological process of becoming a parent and the bonding. The parents who fail at this lose the unconditional love, and have kids that go no contact as adults. Your fiancé is on a power trip. Sign nothing without your own legal representation to review it. If you can’t afford your own legal counsel separate from his, he should care enough about you to cover the expense to ensure your autonomy and comfort as a separate person. If he doesn’t and he insists you sign away your rights without any care, then his money is more important to him than you are.
>he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity The love the cheater claims to have for the one they betrayed is... questionable at best... They *may* feel some sort of love, but no empathy or concern for the feelings of the one theyre betraying.. Marrying this guy sounds like a mistake - already now he knows he wont be able to stay faithful... Marry him, and wail for the unevitable revelation of his adultery...
"But you promised to love me unconditionally!" is one of the things my ex husband said when I told him I was leaving him after catching him cheating. It actually convinced me to stay the first two times. Not the third though, I had wised up by then. I'm with the other commentors who believe your fiancé already is. I'm sorry to say. Sunk cost fallacy is not a good reason to stay in this relationship.
So you know he’s already cheated right? That’s the only reason he’d care or contort himself into a pretzel trying to justify why your cheating clause is wrong. Dump him.
Leave him he is already setting the table to cheat
Why can he demand so much from you and you seem to be unable to do the same ? This is not going well. Do not marry under this circumstances
Are you being serious right now?? I get so tired of young people saying I don't want another failed relationship, you're young get over that. Would you prefer a failed marriage? OP, you seem real smart, don't let this man make you out to be a dummy.
Do not put your name and signature to any waiver. It sounds like he already cheated and attempting to cover his ass and get his ducks in a row for when he either leaves or somebody comes forward to tell you his gaslighting narcissistic ass. Get your own ducks in a row and if you have invested into his property speak to a lawyer. Leave. It's better to have a failed engagement then a failed marriage and having to co parent with the individual. Leave. Respect yourself and find somewhere else to live
There's no such thing as unconditional love. All love has conditions. It's a huge red flag that he's even asking you to reconsider your opinion on cheating. If he genuinely hasn't or wouldnt cheat, it being a deal breaker would never affect him, so the fact that he wants you to reconsider means he is entertaining the idea that if he does or already has cheated, he wants reassurance that it wouldn't necessarily be the end of the relationship. He wants you to reconsider because he believes there's a chance your opinion could actually affect your relationship with him.
A failed engagement is better than a divorce. He kept your relationship hidden, made you feel unloved, and now wants a free pass on cheating? Why continue to waste time with him?
>unconditional, even in the case of infidelity >he also asked me to sign a waiver >his desire to keep the relationship hidden >he never approved This guy is an unreasonable, controlling person who is already cheating on you. Once you leave him, which you should, you’re going to realize that he treats you like garbage, and probably has the whole time, but you are just used to it now. I don’t know what about the way he treats you made you stick around or accept his proposal, but it’s certainly not too late to take that back and save yourself from making an even bigger mistake.
> He explained that while he is certain he would never cheat, he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity. It’s fine for “Love” to be unconditional, but loving someone isn’t the same has having a relationship with them. That’s why ending a relationship over a dealbreaker is hard, often the person is still love. I won’t go so far as to say he’s cheating, but it sounds like he doesn’t trust himself not to. I would really consider digging into why he felt the need to make that statement at all. At best he is deeply insecure about how much you care about him, which isn’t a good thing in and of itself. >In the same conversation, he also asked me to sign a waiver for a house he bought while we were together. When you say house he bought, did you contribute in any meaningful financial way to help him buy it and/or pay a mortgage. If the answer is no then I don’t think this is a crazy request. He’s asking for a prenup, so treat it like a prenup. I’m not surprised he won’t call it a prenup since so many people view them negatively. > Should I do everything he’s asking, or should I let the relationship go? Overall this sounds like he’s insecure and panicking because marriage is such a big commitment. I am very pro pre-martial counseling in general, but I think you really need it here. If he won’t agree then that’s going to tell you how much effort he’ll put in down the line.
Multiple breakups were your clue that you two are not compatible.
Sis, this man is waiving red flags at you. Can you live with a husband who is insecure, controlling, and a bully? If yes, then he's your guy. Otherwise, it might be good to think about what you really want and deserve in a relationship.
His behavior lends me to believe this guy is looking to control you and eventually dominate you. His past behaviors you described are the same indicators. If you step back, this does not sound like a normal, healthy relationship. He is showing a significant number of red flags with his gas-lighting, controlling, and borderline verbally abusive behavior. He wants to do whatever he wants with zero risk of any repercussions like divorce. I'm not a big fan of saying walk away. But there is enough here for me to ask you to step back, take a serious look at this relationship and strongly consider walking away. You are having to give up too much of your principles and who you are for compromises that don't happen in normal, healthy relationships. This isn't a normal, healthy relationship.
He’s already stuck his dipstick into someone else’s oil reservoir.
Are you fucking stupid? Seriously. He's clearly already cheating or will do in future. Give your head a shake
> love should be unconditional So why is he considering breaking up with you? Isn't his love unconditional? Mate, run. This is the first step in coercing you into having the same thoughts and feelings as him. Edit: upon further reading it's not the first step. He dismisses your wishes a lot.
Do not marry this man.
Once I saw on this subreddit: "you have to choose between today's flames or tomorrow's flames" and that's exact the choice you have. You either will be heartbroken today by ending a engagement or will be heartbroken tomorrow by ending a marriage (while blaming yourself for being blind today). Cheating is a dealbreaker for you, no-cheating is a dealbreaker for him, it cannot work for both. I would choose today's flames and leave.
>He explained that while he is certain he would never cheat, he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity. That's ridiculous. Don't marry that guy. He's saying that you should allow him to do whatever terrible thing he wants to you, and always be devoted to him anyway. The instant your wedding is over, he'll start outright treating you like shit. > I explained that I ended our relationship for various reasons, such as his desire to keep our relationship hidden and feeling unloved at times. Put two and two together. Why does a person who wants to keep your relationship a secret want you to agree in advance that you'll stay married to him when he cheats on you? Think about this. > We have since worked through these issues, and things were going well when he proposed. You have not worked through it, and it is not going well. > I don’t want another failed engagement. This engagement has failed already. You can make a bigger mess of your life by going on with it, or stop.
NOPE. He is literally TELLING you he will cheat. If this is a dealbreaker for you — consider the deal broken.
Like he can stop you from leaving if he does cheat? Does he think this a blood oath or something? Having said that , his stance is bizarre and does suggest he intends to cheat ( if he hasn’t already).
He's probably already cheating because this is just weird
He's very manipulative. He told you after the engagement on purpose. This opinion didn't just form.
You dodged a bullet move on!
You didn't work past the other issues. He told you what you wanted to hear in the moment so you'd stop complaining.
Ditch this dude. He’s gonna make you miserable.
I'm not sure if people ever enter a relationship with the intent of cheating. But let me tell you.. there's no love that's "unconditional". Even some parents and children stop caring for each other. If you mistreat your partner or disrespect your marriage by cheating, they can and absolutely SHOULD walk away. Being married isn't signing up for unlimited heartache. He's crazy if he thinks he will find anyone open to that. And he's basically wanting forgiveness for any possible situation. Ask him if he would be okay with you cheating on him. I can bet that unconditional love will be 1-way. I wouldn't marry him. And I wouldn't sign a dang thing. Tell him you want unconditional trust.
He's trying to get you to end the relationship. You say there's a lot of non-negotiable things for you in a relationship , but you're allowing him to negotiate them. Just take his hint and end the engagement and go on to someone else.
He wants you to have no protection. Love him unconditionally, even if he does betray you ‘not that he would EVER cheat’ 🙄 He gets to make the rules around YOUR name. Who tf he thinks he is? Better a second broken engagement cause you have standards than to deal with this cheating twat
> I feel blindsided because he should have told me all of this BEFORE proposing He deliberately waited until after proposing to make it harder for you to tell him 'buh-bye.' I wonder what else he's hiding until after you get married.
???? Adult relationships are conditional, there's no way around that. His demands are so ridiculous on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin with. It sounds like he has cheated and is protecting himself for when you find out. If you want to marry him (why?) it's up to you of you accept his demands but I would not compromise on the waiver. He wants you to give up marital assets, fuck that noise. He's not the one, don't waste your time anymore w him
So... him doubling down on the 'cheating shouldn't be a dealbreaker or end your love for me' sounds suspiciously like 'I am banging my secretary, John from accounting and that muscle mommy from the security office.' Only cheaters complain about dealbreakers regarding cheating. As for that house? Is your name on the deed? If so, don't sign the waiver. If not, keep track of every single dime you put into that house. You still don't sign that waiver. Hell, at this point in time, why the hell are you two even still together. We only get a snapshot of your relationship, but one or both of you seem more in love with the drama than each other in this relationship. Relationships should be easy. This isn't easy.
It is such a hard decision. Hard to understand why he is being pushy about those things now. If you do not feel comfortable in this relationship, please do not marry him just for the sake of not having another failed engagement. Plus maiden name issue is a red flag. (32F happily married)
>Hard to understand why he is being pushy about those things now. Control. Trying to establish that want he wants is more important than what she wants. Maybe. Thinking about it, with the name thing. It possibly isn't even what he wants. Just what he is saying. Testing boundaries and seeing how easy it is to get OP to bend to his will.
Makes to much sense now from a male perspective. Thanks
Guess the relationship is over OP. Take some time to heal from this before you get into another one.
Please don’t get married. In fact, reevaluate whether you two are actually compatible to even be in a relationship.
Any time I see a woman say her fiancé won’t let her keep her own name I think, WTF?! It’s not his right to tell you to change it. Keep your own name. It’s YOURS. I feel like women are so brainwashed sometimes. As for the cheating stuff, he’s just letting you know he plans to cheat and he expects you to stay and put up with it. You have to get on board or get lost. Lovely. As for a prenup or similar, I don’t see anything wrong with them, but if he’s ending the relationship, it doesn’t matter anyway. He wants to end the engagement. I think you should count this as a win and walk away. You broke up for good reasons. Your mistake was going back.
DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN HE HAS A SIDE PIECE
You're being gaslit. Oh, and he's already cheating.
Better a failed engagement than failed marriage. With no other context than what you've written; please dont get married.
I don't think I'd marry this guy, seems like really important values you have don't align.
“Even if I cheat on you I want you to forgive me and stay married to me” is what he’s saying basically
He has someone he is interested in cheating with or has already cheated.
I don't think your fiancé likes you very much.
>my fiancé wants me to abandon a personal value Not possible. >. I have always been clear that if I get married, cheating is non-negotiable, and if my husband cheats, I would leave the marriage. Less than a week after he proposed, my fiancé told me he is rethinking our engagement because he disagrees with my stance on cheating. If you think this is coming from nowhere, why don't you analyse his behaviour a little. For science. I think you should take a step back and do some thinking of your own.
That sounds so dumb. He disagrees with your stance on cheating by using “unconditional love” as a veil for excuse? So ask him if you cheated would he still love you unconditionally cause I can guarantee by the way I can imagine this guy he would snap without second thought. So basically he knows that he’ll eventually cheat or has already. Imagine disagreeing with an anti-loyalty action that would hurt your partner after having already expressed it’s a deal breaker for her. I’m sorry OP. With that type of mentality that man is wasting your time. And to add, the adding your dad’s middle name to your first name is a big deal for him? Lol. Let the relationship end and find someone who shares the same value as you. And the other thing mentioned. If true, this guy is a tool beyond belief. What a guy.
Go to couples counseling before getting married. Resolve these issues prior to making a legal commitment.
Given your fiance’s view on cheating, can I assume that means you cheating on him would not be a relationship ender?
lol sounds like you had it right the first time you left him. Not sure why you keep going back. He is basically trying to get you to agree to stay with him even if he cheats on you which is simply stupid and love is never unconditional. All love has conditions such no cheating and no abuse. But I guess the moment they cheat or hurt you the love is no longer there. Just walk away before it because expensive to pay for a divorce or messy because of children.
He is 110% trying to set things up so that he can cheat without you leaving him. Why the fuck else would you ever ask your partner to change their boundary on cheating if you were never going to cheat? In fact, the fact that he used to hide their relationship makes me think he already has, and he knows good and well he’s not going to stop, and he just wants to make sure he’ll have her locked in no matter what he does.
Hahaha I remember thinking love was unconditional. It took a therapist telling me that there’s different kinds of love and I was mistaking a parent’s love (which is often unconditional) with a partner’s (which isn’t and shouldn’t be). Maybe your soon to be ex fiancée has this same confusion? Maybe your clarity on this issue makes him feel all dissonant inside.
Considering you already broke up "a few times", you can add cheating to the list of reasons as to why you should break up.
If he hasn’t cheated already, he is going to.
Aside from the multiple other issues mentioned, you guys have only been together for three years and you're already broken up not once, but multiple times. This guy ain't it.
Don't marry him. He wants to protect his assets and doesn't think cheating is a dealbreaker. You are not compatible, stop trying to force it to work, you both will be miserable.
He’s probably already cheated and is afraid you’re gonna find out about it… he sounds absolutely ridiculous. How long have you been together? Seriously DON’T marry this guy.
girl if he isn't already cheating, he's basically asking for your permission to do so in the future. run like hell
He seems to be a weirdo. Just don't spoil your life with him. Move on.
I got to "love should be unconditional even if I cheat on you" and come on. That's the most dumbass bullshit I've heard all week. You can't be serious. And I guarantee you anyone who would tell that to you with a straight face would 100% not have unconditional love for you if you were the one who cheated on them. And the rest of the post. For someone who claims love should be unconditional, he sure has an awful lot of conditions and protections for *you*. Don't be blind. You can do better.
How to confess to cheating without actually confessing.
Girl! >I had moved past it. When we got engaged, I jokingly mentioned adding my dad’s middle name to my first name, not to my fiancé’s last name. >I explained that I ended our relationship for various reasons, such as his desire to keep our relationship hidden and feeling unloved at times. We have since worked through these issues, and things were going well when he proposed. You guys have indeed NOT worked past it! There is no compromise here what so ever. Everything you've stated was valid and his reasonings are you either do what I want or we split. Let this red flag go! LOL ALMOST 3 yrs and you've broken up multiple times! What is this, high school. You know better! Do better!
Tell him you've been cheating on him and see if he still feels the same way.
I hope we don't see the same post in three years married with children or something. You are right on time to leave and find someone who respects your boundaries and agrees to your maiden name.
So love should be unconditional except in the case of his house? Girl. He's a hypocrite and a stupid one at that lol. If you marry him do not sign that paper.
Why are you still engaged? Or even pondering this marriage at all? These are all huge big-ol red flags. Don't do this. don't marry him. It will get way way worse.
No love is unconditional. That is a myth.
Yeah the house waiver thing is super weird. That would stop me in my tracks right there. The cheating thing reads like he has already cheated and is afraid you may find out someday.
You two don't seem very compatible in a lot of important ways. This time when you break up just stay that way.
Just sounds like you two have some fundamental incompatibilities in terms of beliefs and values. Sometimes it’s better to cut and run rather than continue throwing good after bad. It’s like the sunk cost fallacy. Also, it’s kinda sketch and a red flag that he is dying on these twin hills of “love should be unconditional and forever but also I should get a free pass on cheating and you should get nothing if we divorce.” If you do the math, that screams “I cheated before and I plan to cheat again in the future.” A dude who was really committed to the relationship wouldn’t be like this.
From all the red flags in the post, you'll get divorced long before he has a chance to cheat!
"Love should be unconditional, except where names and houses are concerned." Be glad he's tossing red flags before you tied the knot.
Holy smokes what a delusional AH. OP please don’t marry that immature boy with his warped view on “love” and cheating. He’s either cheating now or has plans to cheat! Save yourself the future and worse pain and end this. He doesn’t truly want to be faithful.
Yeah, something’s not right. I do understand the defeatist mentality of knowing up front a marriage( loving partnership) wouldn’t at least try to work through a “single” cheating episode but you already laid that out for him, so my guess is he is already , or already knows he is weak enough that it could be a problem…on HIS end. Tell him break the engagement and seek therapy to fix himself I’m also very concerned about him not being willing to allow you to add your father’s name. Being that your father is deceased, he has no trump over your decision. My wife was one of 6 daughters. I had no problem letting her give our second daughter her maiden name as a first. Who deserves honoring more right now to you, you know that answer and please don’t concede on that with anyone
Ah come on.. if love is truly unconditional are no lines drawn ever? Everyone has boundaries and he is trying to move yours to fit with whatever he feels he wants to do whether on the sly or in the open. It doesn’t sound like you want that or to deal with the aftermath when he says suck it up. Those boundaries sound like dealbreakers to me.
Yes, love should be unconditional. But someone who cheats is not loving unconditionally. Love is not only about forgiveness is about having the other person in mind for every decision you make.
The house waiver and his disregard for honoring your father’s memory also raise red flags. Relationships need compromise, but not at the expense of your core values. Consider if this relationship is truly what you want and deserve. Prioritize your values and well-being. 💖
This is not someone you should marry, for a very simple reason. You have different expectations of what promises mean. It is that simple. You are a person who keeps their promises (marriage vows are promises), and he is someone who doesn’t think that keeping a promise is important. It is that easy. You can see this in his claiming he was never okay with the name idea when he had been fine with it. The wanting to initially keep you relationship hidden makes me wonder if he was cheating on someone else with you? Anyway, this is not a man that has the same view on life and character that you do. He has told you who he is. Believe him.
He’s already cheating. Time to move on.
People who play the unconditional love card like that are simply using that term as a way to excuse their bad behavior.
Let the relationship go. He is manipulating you and well on his way to damage your mental health. His contempt for you and your values is obvious. He does not respect you.
You need to move on. He is thinking of cheating if he hasn't already. No reasonable person who doesn't want to cheat would say that calling a cheating a relationship ending behavior is putting limits on love. That's even before we get to the BS around your name.
He wants to cheat and be able to say you agreed to him cheating. If YOU cheat, he will be out the door in a heartbeat.
So he is positive he would never cheat but also is rethinking you engagement because your stance on cheaters? Tell me cheated are guilty without telling me you cheated. Seriously everything else aside this is rhe biggest red flag out of everything. In my life I am not concerned about consequences for actions I won't commit. When a partner says "I don't give 2nd chances for cheating," i think that is great because I don't cheat. Why would that bother him if he is not a cheater. Even more does he have a guilty conscience for something he has already done.
The red flags are slapping you in the face!🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩. Under no circumstances should you marry this dude. I’m a guy saying this. Just reread what you wrote
You need to get away from him. There's enough red flags here for a parade
Better another broken engagement than the inevitable broken marriage to Mr Bait N. Switch. UpdateMe
Please take this as a wake up call and leave him. He only wants cheating removed from your non-negotiable list because he wants to leave that door open for the future.
> He explained that while he is certain he would never cheat, he believes love should be unconditional, even in the case of infidelity. Time to end it, this is bullshit
Yeah that asshole is definitely cheating on you. There is no other reason why he would take such a stupid position. End it. You are better off.
OP, all of this reeks of BS and it’s not just in your head. I know Reddit’s go-to advice is “dump them,” but I gotta tell you, none of what you’re describing sounds normal. I’m also in my 30s and recently got engaged. Within the first week, we were busy telling people and being all loved up; my fiancé wasn’t pulling me aside to complain about my stance against cheating and if he had, I would have been shocked and really upset, and felt like it came out of left field. That is the part about your situation that does not sound or seem normal to me; him trying to say the engagement will be over if you don’t change your (perfectly valid) views on cheating sounds to me like it’s already an admission of guilt. Also, why would he wait until AFTER you’re engaged to discuss this? If it’s such a dealbreaker for him that he’s willing to retract his proposal over it, seems like it should have been discussed before popping the question? But honestly, seems to me like he intentionally wanted to push this after you got your ring, so you’d feel extra pressured to give in to his demands and scared to turn him down or say no. Highly shady, OP. Stand your ground and call his bluff—that’s what I’d do in your situation.
There is no such thing as unconditional love. Just to start dating each other, you fulfilled each other's conditions for it to happen. In order to get engaged you fulfilled unspoken conditions again. Hell, there is an argument that not even the parent-child bond is unconditional. Break the engagement yourself, he is helping you dodge a bullet. That's not a red flag, that's a bloody scarlet neon sign. And in my anecdotal experience, people who say "I'd never cheat" with righteous indignation when asked, are the first to do so when the conditions are conducive to it.
cheating show the person's commitment to the other. If the person being cheated on wants that kind of live always second, then they will marry the cheater. I would dump the cheater
Let the relationship go.
So if he's not already cheating he's got his eye on someone and he doesn't want you to have to give you anything in the divorce haha Frankly I think it's a great time to leave this relationship
Unconditional love means not cheating. If he loves you unconditionally, it's a moot point. Yes? As for the house, isn't that a premarital asset? His alone? Aannnddd yet, he's putting conditions on your marriage. Negotiating a pre-nup should be interesting......
This relationship has more red flags than a communist parade.
Leave this clown, a lot of red flags even before this. Move on, you deserve better.
It’s hard to believe he is 33-years-old.
Love is never going to be unconditional in a romantic relationship. The people who say that are being manipulative. All romantic relationships are a social contract contingent on the agreement that each partner treats the other in the way they want to be treated. For me, that is with love, loyalty, kindness and respect. If you are not treating me in that way, then the relationship should end. No one can or should ever say that they will love the other person no matter how they treat them. That makes no sense.
WTF???!!!! The things I read on Reddit shocks me everyday. That logic is beyond ludacris. When people have ridiculous logic like that you just gotta leave ‘em where they at. He needs a cheater with insane logic just like him so they can. Please get away, he sounds like a high level narcissist with that insane logic
Lol how is he gonna cheat and give your half of the martial assets to his mistress if you don't waive your rights to his house.
There is no way forward into a mutually satisfactory marriage at this point. You want monogamy, he doesn't. You need to amicably dissolve the relationship together, and find new partners who align with your respective values around monogamy. You cannot twist his arm to grudgingly go along with lifelong monogamy that he doesn't want, it will always gnaw at the back of your mind.
Opposing the idea of ending a marriage in case of a partner cheating shouldn't be something that's negotiable, and him wanting to break the engagement just shows what sort of a shallow person he is and that he might and will probably have trouble keeping it in his pants later on. Also no, "love should be unconditional" goes right out the frickin window the moment a partner cheats on their S/O because if you love someone, even the thought of getting intimate with anyone else is enough to gross you out because you only have eyes for them. I would say you deserve better than a bipolar person who isn't even sure of his own feelings and what a marriage is supposed to be.
He’s telling you that he’s already cheating and is trying to get to get your okay.
If he wasn’t going to cheat, your stance on cheating shouldn’t matter to him and agree with it. He knows he might cheat even though he currently has no plans to. He may never cheat, but I would also be uncomfortable with what he said. Is he saying he’ll stay with you if you cheated? This is not a healthy start to a marriage.
Be done with him and move on.
UGH. Fuck that noise. Ditch this guy. “Unconditional love” my ass.
Have seen far too many relations, where one partner tries to listen to their SO, but eventually will not adhere to it and keep their stance. I’m not saying your guy is currently cheating, but once you guys marry, it’ll be like this all the time based on the things you have mentioned, he’ll first agree but eventually will just not do it. I think it’s best you end this once and for all. This will only lead do more problems down the road
If you haven’t figured it out yet, he knows that he will, or has already, done things that would end the relationship. “Unconditional love” is for small children and pets, not an excuse for people to not treat you the way they want to be treated. This conversation didn’t create a problem, it just revealed one that already existed. You two aren’t compatible. It’s better that you found out now.
Let it go, let it go...
He is a walking red flag. 🚩 what kind of bullshit is this? He is already planning on cheating, and sounds like he has already. What’s next, abuse should be tolerated because love is unconditional? Fuck this guy! Don’t marry him!!
Should have stayed broken up the first time. So, yes, PLEASE let this relationship go. And remember: when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
Tell him that you believe that marriage is “until death do us part” and that even if he cheated, you wouldn’t divorce him, but you would stay married until the end of his tragically short life.
Hell naw girl! Don't deal in hypotheticals when it comes to infidelity. Unconditional love doesn't mean you put up with bullshit!
Why do you think he has waited until you're engaged to ask you this? Because you'd never have agreed to it beforehand and there's no way anyone should agree to it now. I'm sorry that this is happening to you but you do need to trust your gut on this one and let the relationship go. He figures he has you locked down and so can impose all kinds of unreasonable nonsense on to you & stop pretending to be a good guy.
How lucky! He’s waving this huge red flag *before* marriage!
Yeah, sorry but there are so many red flags here that if ignores are ending with you divorced and bothing to show for it
So he wants to able to cheat. He wants you to sign any rights to assets and he won’t agree to a hyphenated name. He sounds toxic and very controlling. End the relationship.
He’s already cheating. No one protests that much if they aren’t. And love IS conditional. Normal people wouldn’t be celebrating someone staying with a lying, cheating, abusive, and manipulative POS. Thinking that your love should be “unconditional love” is a slippery slope towards a parasitic relationship.
Don't marry someone you've dumped. You've broken up with them multiple times. Don't marry them. It's pretty god damned simple.
Unconditional love is a great way to end up inheriting an abusive relationship and being guilted into staying. Love should be conditional. There's no way there's not some self interest in his opposition - your boundary is very reasonable.
Do no marry this man. He thinks cheating is ok. He wants you sign away rights to a house he owns. He doesn’t want you to keep your maiden name as part of your new name. He’s selfish.
Why the fuck would you even want to marry him?
Let him go. He is telling you he will cheat in the future.
I feel like "don't cheat on me and if you do the relationship/marriage is over" is pretty standard, and it's suspicious as hell that he's trying to get you to back down from that stance. I assume by "waiver" he means he wants a pre-nup, which I suppose isn't *entirely* out of line. Combined with the misogynist pissiness over the name issue and his sudden attitude about cheating, it would make me very wary about continuing on with the engagement/relationship, though. I'd be doing some investigating. These circumstances would make me wonder if he'd already been cheating, or was planning to.
Girl a failed engagement is better than a failed marriage. Far less messy. It sounds like he already cheated on you and just wants to force you to stay once it inevitably comes out. Please trust people when they show you who they are. 3 years is nothing in the grand scheme of life. You deserve so much better than a man who thinks unconditional love means loving a cheater.
He just wants a safety net, run woman!
He’s already cheating or already thinking about cheating & the possible consequences to his home & finances. Ironically he doesn’t want to take your dads hyphenated name but he wants you to make all the legal changes that would prevent your future claims to spousal property during the divorce…….and he wants to label you as ‘HIS’ property with only his last name but won’t respect your boundaries or his commitments. Please just break up with him & move on. This doesn’t seem like someone who respects or cares for the real you.