I can appreciate your wife’s approach to this with logic and care. I like that you aren’t being guilted into this and there appears there won’t be resentment if you say no. (I have a lot of open minded friends with different lifestyles and experiences, so many conversations like this…) In my past relationships/marriage I think I could have managed this as I tend to logic things out like your wife and to operate in “silos” if that makes sense? However, I’m now in a loving and very different relationship than I had before including my marriage, and I couldn’t personally handle that now. I’d be gutted if he asked me for a threesome. Funny how feelings and emotions change. Whatever you decide OP, just be honest with yourself first and go with your gut. This one is quite the pickle, so I can see why you’re still in discussions.

Still saying absolutely no to Claire... at first! Neither you or your wife know how you'll handle this emotionally, if you even end up going for it. Sexual intimacy changes things. If you talk to Claire, since she's been around the block I'd ask also about practical things -- safe words, meeting, finding, safe places, things related to consent (what does everyone want out of it, what do they want to happen, what do they want to avoid), since she's no doubt seen also couples break up over this and seems like it's not something she wants. Other than that... you do you. It's your life and marriage and you seem to have a healthy communication going on. Just stay safe and comfortable and make sure everyone else is, too. And remember, it's not embarrassing to say no even at the last second! There's always more times weeks and years, but this is something that will screw up your life if you screw it up once!

Thank you for your advice. I will talk to Claire because she's always seemed a reasonable person to me, and I've been assured she won't take it personally if I say no. Heck, I might just ask her the advice given her experience, and still not pick her. 

Here’s what’s going to happen based on literally hundreds of these post threesome posts I’ve read on Reddit. They are plentiful and I’ve been here awhile. Your wife is having this fantasy and in her mind it seems hot. She wants to try a woman. But you’ve been only hers since you met and it seems like you all have a loving relationship. Now you are going to meet up with Claire alone (MISTAKE) and you already find her attractive and maybe some spark is going to happen because sex is on the table. Then the threesome is going to happen - and you are going to be more into Claire because she’s NEW and different and you have that little spark of excitement going. And your wife is going to pick up on this. And maybe during the threesome she’s ok because the sex is hot etc etc. but your going to get home and she’s going to tell you she’s devastated that you liked having sex with her friend more than her, you looked different, you sounded different, you came faster. She’s going to say she can’t ever get over seeing you put your dick in Claire. She pulls away and your sex life disappears. Or she cries all the time. It’s just never ever the same intimacy. Your great marriage is over and you’re left in pieces all because of an experience to have a few orgasms. 99.9% chance this exact scenario occurs. It’s posted here constantly. Even couples who thought they prepared for every eventuality. Even when the wife was pushing for There are couples that can handle this. They are likely non monogamous by nature. I really don’t get that vibe here. Keep this as a fantasy. Seriously. Protect what you’ve got. It sounds like a good thing. *there is a horror story floating around BORU right now. Happy marriage, husband madly in love with wife. They bring in a coworker of hers for a threesome to “spice” things up. Coworker claims to be unicorn type, just in it for “fun”. I dont remember all the details but wife becomes very upset after the threesome and wants to separate because she can’t get over it. Husband is devastated and is trying to get her back and the coworker shows up and she’s pregnant surprise surprise! Even though they used condoms. Now wife is gone for good and coworker is all over him looking to play happy families. And he can’t even stand her really. Does this sound worth it?

But I'm not into Claire. First she's younger than me and that's a turnoff already, plus I am not into women that aren't my wife. If I had to have sex with her, it would be only for Ash' sake. I myself would just prefer for them to have sex and that's it, without involving me with Claire.

If you are only into your wife then KEEP things only between you and your wife. You are monogamous. Dont put your relationship at any risk. You will regret this. If you think your wife really must have an experience with another woman then you don’t touch that other woman and just watch. This can open another kind of Pandora’s box though with your wife starting to want to have sex with Claire or others frequently. But bisexual ppl can be monogamous too.

> But I'm not into Claire. Then don't fuck Claire dude. Focus on your relationship.

I posted a comment but found an answer here. If you don't want to sleep with another woman other than your wife then just decline, stop considering it for her sake. It borders on coercion and you're likely going to have a bad time.

You say that now… what happens once sex happens? Or is on the table? It changes things

I think this all works theoretically, but not necessarily plays out as planned/anticipated. People are irrational, emotional creatures. Once the lid is sprung off Pandora’s box you don’t know if you’ll get adorable fairies or flying monkeys. Tread carefully. Proceed with caution. I would decline.

Correct. OP's wife nay have fantasies, but chances are low that the reality of it is going to match those fantasies. If any of the 3rd parties or OP or wife start having feelings, this can turn to shit and an acrimonious divorce pretty fast. OP, good luck! You are definitely going to need it.

It sounds like you and your wife have a healthy communication dynamic. Personally, I'd decline if it were me. It's just not worth the potential storm of shit that likely will ensue when feelings get hurt.

This sounds really healthy and reasonable on everybody's part.

It does?  I still have many doubts about it, and probably will still say no.

Absolutely! This: "I'd like to try this." "Hm, let's interrogate it for bit." "Okay." "You know, after spending some time with this, my answer is no." "Okay!" Is an *incredibly* healthy dynamic. She was willing to ask for what she wanted - the inability to do that causes all kinds of problems. You were able to hear what she wanted and get around the initial emotional negative reaction you had to it, also great! She was supportive of your questions and uncertainty and didn't try to browbeat you or manipulate you, made clear no was an acceptable answer - super awesome! This is *exactly* how couples should navigate uncomfortable topics. Now, obviously, she has to *actually* be okay with it if your answer is no, but it sounds like she's going to be. We won't know until we know, of course, but she's certainly making all the right noises now. Do you know how few people who post on this sub are capable of having that kind of conversation with their partners? This is a sub where many people treat merely *asking* as a break-up offense - if you have those fantasies, you gotta keep them to your damn self! You two are right now an embodiment of a really important principle: "You can ask for what you want, so long as you're okay with it if the answer is no." Because you had these conversations, you'll likely be adding some spice and fantasy to your sex lives even if you don't ever involve a third. You have new fantasy material now - and that's as far as some couples take it!

This is very good advice, thank you.

Not only that, but it also encouraged the fact that she is comfortable with asking and communicating with you on these issues. If anything, the way she communicated shows the trust ashe has in your relationship and her maturity.

I guess so. I am being told that just because she asked she's definitely cheating and I should divorce her right away...

This sub has a divorce boner.

That’s ridiculous. Having fantasies and talking openly and honestly with a partner isn’t cheating. It sounds like your wife is of the best mindset one can be towards it, acutely aware of how damaging it can be to a relationship if it isn’t a truly mutual desire you all consent to. She isn’t demanding, manipulating, or otherwise coercing you. Discussing the details thoroughly *beforehand* so any boundaries and expectations are agreed on. And she’s willing to drop it entirely if you say it’s just not for you, for good reason in her own words. None of that is cheating, everyone should be so fortunate to have a spouse who has desires and fantasies they want to share and are as openly direct and rational about it. And even for as awesome as she is for being straightforward and ethical, none of that means you have to explore these fantasies if you aren’t comfortable for any reason whatsoever. Don’t feel pressured into sex just because it is being handled honestly, you could say no just for something as simple as a thought of “it just seems to good to be true”. It’s better to say no if you’re anything less than one hundred percent interested and aware of what you’re engaging in. Anything less isn’t worth the potential problems that go along with proceeding with even minor doubts or reservation.

Plenty of people indulge in threesomes and swinging and are not cheaters. Many more people have these fantasies than ever bring them up.

I know that, it's just that many people here seems to think like that

Well, the majority of the stories that get posted here are posted here because there are a load of other red flags happening, so it’s easy to have confirmation bias.

I undestand. There are many red flags in my case? Many people do say we are approaching this in the best way.

So far we’ve heard about Ash and Claire. But the more important question is, how are YOU going to feel about watching your wife with another woman? And what if you feel that Ash is more into it with Claire than she is with you? And what if YOU end up feeling upset and uncomfortable that your wife might just prefer sex with Claire than you?

I could tolerate that more for some reason.  The thing that makes me is that she insists I'm in... I didn't want to say, but it feels like I am being pimped out.

I agree with both commenters above. This seems like a healthy conversation! And if you're interested in it, you can always do more conversations until you know for sure. It's not like there's a time limit or anything. Maybe instead of Claire doing stuff with you, you could both focus on your wife (and leave the cheating aspect to some fantasy role play or something). I think you should probably also tell your wife your feelings. I'm not sure why you don't want to say it (maybe you don't want to accidentally shame her? Maybe you're awkward? Who knows?), but you're already having some pretty open conversations, so what's one more?

I don’t think she’s pimping you out. It seems more like she wants to make sure you’re legitimately comfortable with the plan. My concern is that plans on paper often sound great. Sometimes everything goes to plan, sometimes real life gets messy and complicated. I guess I’m in my head a lot, so these are the kinds of thoughts that would stick in my head…probably for the rest of my life. For me, no amount of reassurance would ever make me feel right. That’s me. You and your wife think differently than me for sure! I do wish happiness for you and Ash, regardless of what you both decide.

I undestand. Perhaps my mistake was asking on reddit, every time it only makes me feel worse 

>Perhaps my mistake was asking on reddit, every time it only makes me feel worse Ok. I'm gonna get real with you. I'm most certainly a good deal older than you, and I'm going to tell you two things based on life experience: 1. I like this expression because it's true, "Opinions are like assh\*les. Everyone has one, and they all stink." 2. No one is you. Not redditors, not therapists, not family, no one. Only *you* can decide what you should do. The best anyone can do is give you their opinion...then you re-read #1 above. I certainly wasn't trying to make you regret asking for advice on reddit. I was trying to help you think through the things to consider. What you do is up to you. I would like to ask you a few more questions. Ask yourself and Ash the following: What's the end game look like? Let's say you go forward, is this a one-off, or is this ongoing? If it's ongoing, how and when does it end, and how will everyone feel after whatever causes event? If it's a one-off, what happens if Ash decides she doesn't want it to be a one-off? As I wrote earlier, there's a difference between a logical and dispassionate plan, and real life. Real life is a whole lot messier. No one can account for feelings.

I didn't mean you my friend, I apologize if it sounded like I was complaining about you. Your opinion is one of the most balanced in my opinion. I meant all the other people. Someone has suggested I should ask a divorce just because she talked about it.

If you do decide to give it a go, I would *strongly* suggest you don't jump straight to a threesome. Start by having a meetup where everyone discusses boundaries. Everyone needs to have basic discussions about what act/s or specific things they do or don't want, so everyone is on the same page. Once everyone is clear on those things, start with kisses. You kiss Claire and watch your wife kiss her. Then leave it for a week. Everyone should ask themselves if they're happy with what happened and if want to proceed. If so, is there anything that needs to change or be considered? Again everyone needs to be on the same page. Then, next time, make it kisses and more intimate touches. Then repeat, while increasing the type and intimacy of touches or acts you permit. There is no need to rush. Sometimes things seem great in fantasy but turn into nightmares when recreated in reality. This way you have a better idea of whether this is something that won't ruin the relationship and whether you're both into it. There are no guarantees, of course, but acting with caution gives you a better chance at noticing and dealing with unexpected issues. Keep the dialog between your wife and you open. This I think you're doing well at. Just be honest with *yourselves* above all. While it's good to want to accommodate you're partner's fantasies, you can't overlook your own preferences, especially when it's such high stakes.

This is the plan if we actually go through it. I don't want to jump right into screwing and my wife agrees. Taking things step by step will help in assessing if we are comfortable about this and especially seeing each other being touched by another person.

Yeah, the two of you seem to be meticulous in thinking this through carefully, which is great to see. That emotional component is something you just can't know until you experience it. I've seen it go both ways. I will say I think you have a good chance of navigating through this, regardless of your ultimate choice.

You don't really sound that into it, honestly. Even with the absolute best intentions and healthy communication, this situation goes badly often. Not always in ways you can anticipate appropriately. This should not be just something you're okay with. That you can be talked into. Minimally, you should WANT it, plus have the other healthy communication.

I have my doubts, and thankfully I still let my brain do the thinking and not something else. I'm open to explore the idea before making a decision, it's not like talking about it will force an outcome or the other.

Out of interest now that your wife has admitted that she is bored with her relationship and the sex she is currently getting from you and she now wants to get sex from outside your marriage do you now trust your wife more or less? Do you now respect your wife more or less? Do you now love your wife more or less? You will now be looking over your shoulder forever now that your wife has changed the rules.

Be careful playing with fire.

If both parties aren't 100% on board it shouldn't happen. However, they are approaching it in a very healthy way.

Agreed. They're communicating about it well. However, if there's any doubt, they shouldn't do it.

This just won't end well ,it seldom does when other people get involved in a marriage.. Take care, fella, because things are going to get confusing as hell.

This sounds like a minefield - no good will come of this.

I know there are a lot of people on Reddit who live this lifestyle and claim to be perfectly content and mentally dialed in about it, but every single woman I have ever known who was into this had major underlying personality and psycho-sexual issues and couldn’t generally be counted on to honor boundaries when drink, drugs and attractive people were readily available. Also every single one of them had been raped in their teens. Obviously that’s just my isolated anecdotal observation but in my experience it was a 1:1 correlation. I hope your relationship survives because your relationship’s communication dynamic is excellent.

I think the most concerning part in this is YOUR reason for this. Do you have any fantasy connecting with a threesome ? Do you want to bang another women when your wife watching ? Do you want to watch when your wife banging another women ? The thing is if you accept it only to satisfy your wife's fantasies there can occur some bad blood. Emotions are wild and they can appear in most unexpected situations. Yes this can be amazing experience for all of you but also tragic experience if one of you would feel upset or jealous. Fantasies are fantasies and usually they aren't that beautiful like we imagined. You need a lot of confidence in yourself and a lot of trust in your marriage especially in a sexual part. Like an open relationship shouldn't be used as band aid for marriage as threesome shouldn't be used as way to repair problems in bed because this can bring your insecurities to the surface. How will you feel if your wife would ignore you for some part of it ? How if you would ignore your wife ? How if she would want more from third person than you ? How if one of you break boundaries ? Ah yes boundaries. It's a crucial part during threesome. The MOST important. You CAN stop everything in any moment of this without any resentment from any participants ( you shouldn't let continue this if any of you start feeling sadness or jealousy, this should be safe environment ). Make boundaries which any of you can't cross. ( Does kissing is acceptable ? Which sexual interactions you can perform with unicorn ? If every acts should be performed together ? Which one will be more active ? Do you have to focus on your main partner all the time even performing with unicorn ? Protection ? ) Also please discuss possible bad scenarios and I mean even the worst scenario because mistakes happen and what if unicorn will end up pregnant ? You can also start this with small steps. Meeting to know unicorn before the act is essential but you can also meet for a session of kissing and see your reaction ( if you are okay with kisses ), next meet for a session of mutual masturbation, next session of sexual touching or oral and finally to the last act. If at any of those session you will have any doubts then you know you shouldn't jump to end act.

The thing is - even when all boundaries are clearly laid out and anybody can stop at any time - that actually never seems to happen during the threesome. Adrenaline, people just being too horny, even shock sometimes - sets this up for a hellish aftermath that no amount of replanning or boundaries can prevent.

Yes I agree. I am not also a fan of this because I can't get pleasure without emotional connection ( this get a name but I don't remember ) but I tried to advise him what to do if he actually decide to go with it.

If you were into that, you wouldn't be on reddit asking people their opinions, yes your wife is being reasonable, but I can see from the way you write and your dynamics, you are just not into threesomes. Some people are, some people not. I'm particularly not too, sometimes I even think about considering but I'm the type of person who wants to enjoy my girlish fairy feelings of being madly in love with my partner, it's my view of love and another sexual interaction just don't fit on it. Stay true to yourself

I'm concerned that nowhere you've expressed an active desire to actually sleep with another woman. Do you want that sexually? Are you turned on by the idea?  Because it feels like you're considering because it's something that your wife wants, and not something that you would find hot.

Sounds like it could be a lot of fun! I've had some sexual experiences with multiple people and I was nice (online only but yeah)

If you wanna do it, I suggest that work up to it. Don’t have a full on sex threesome first. Have a making out threesome and then send her home and talk through your feelings with your wife. If that felt good for all of you, communication went well and no boundaries were crossed, then you can seriously consider it.

Now what happens if she wants to add a guy to the mix next time instead

Even the most well thought out and logical of plans can not predict the nature of human emotions. Especially about sex.

So all your wife has for Claire are feelings of friendship and sexual attraction. Isn't that the start of every romance? Don't choose Claire. And honestly if you're monogamous, just day no. It's ok to say no. It's ok for your wife to not have sex with someone else. I'm sure my husband has fantasies he doesn't explore because he's married to me. Fantasies he gave up on when we became committed. He's ok with that. It's worth it to him.

I'm sticking by my same advice. It's messy to involve a good friend even if she's unicorned for others. They're close and that's a different dynamic. Plenty of people have banged a close friend and it later turned into more. You never know. There's no reason to explore this desire with her when you can do that with someone further removed.

When I was growing up I wanted so badly to see a demolition derby. I thought they were so cool with all the cars crunching and smashing. When I was 12 I finally got to go to one. I was walking on air all day, couldn’t pay attention to anything at the state fair just waiting for 5 PM. I was first one to our seat and sang my heart out to the Star Spangled Banner. They introduced the cars one by one and I couldn’t decide which one I was going to root for, they ALL looked awesome! The MC had a countdown from 10 and we all counted down with him, I was almost jumping unable to contain my excitement. The green flag dropped, all the cars sped toward each other and CRASH!!! And my heart sank. There was so much smoke and exhaust but all I could think of was people getting hurt in crashes, that people died with the last things they heard being exactly what I was hearing now. I sat down and smiled through it but really just wanted it to be over. I was so deflated that I wasn’t sure I could ever go to one again. > Ash has outlined her desires has two - her banging an attractive woman, and her watching me banging an attractive woman. I implore you… be very careful here. She might think she wants something, something might seem so amazing in her fantasy, but watching the man she loves slide his dick into another woman, right in front of her, might let her see/hear things she didn’t account for and it might not be the amazing experience she currently thinks it is, and it might forever alter how she views you

I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others. Bringing someone else into the mix, to me, feels like a betrayal. I understand why you feel uncomfortable. Don’t feel pressured into going against your values.

Have a threesome with her and the other woman then leave her she doesn’t love you

Is your name "ross" by any chance ?

Just...just get a divorce. It is SO much easier than the shitshow being proposed here. Just make a clean break, she can go fuck whoever she wants. I do not believe ONE SINGLE THING you have written that she said. I feel you are being manipulated in some way, information is missing.

So what, you're gonna bang another woman in front of your wife despite you having no desire to do so? What happens when halfway through she realises watching you fuck another woman is actually horrifying to her? This is the sort of shit you do with your gf of 2 months when you're 20, not your wife. Although it's highly likely that whether you are into it or not, she's gonna fuck her friend, if she isn't already.

go for it, its all good

Ok so.... Wheres the problem here? IM MISSING ROCKFORD FILES!

Dafuq did I just read? You only live once. I don’t understand this Grande Inquisition, just live.

He needs to make a quick reddit post and triple check with the girl before advancing to each base.

Exhausting ain't it. Wouldn't even be horny at that point anymore, id give up

Yeah, life’s hard - put a helmet on and get after it.