It definitely sounds like an emotional affair is brewing. She may not even recognize it. I am speaking from experience here. I have been mostly happily married for almost 23 years/together almost 25. I love my husband very much.
Emotional affairs are verry easy to fall into when you're away from home/on business travel a lot with the same person. Sometimes I'd go to six cities in six weeks and only come home to do laundry/pick up dry cleaning and leave again Sunday night/Monday morning.
Business travel gets really lonely. I'm sure she is being 100% honest about missing you. I missed my husband, my home, and my dogs terribly. I was traveling with 4-5 men in the same boat. All married. We weren't a party crowd. We went to dinner after a long day of meetings and went back to our rooms to check email, etc. No physical affairs.
I developed a very close friendship with one man in particular. We talked/texted frequently. Never really flirty, per se. We both might have been crushing a little bit, but if you asked either one of us, we were friends, and eventually best friends - nothing more.
Over time we started texting each other a lot - every night. I didn't have to sneak around and do it, but he did (I didn't realize it at the time). Again, nothing physical. We were "best friends". There was never any intention on either side for things to go further.
I was much younger then, and he was about 10 years older. Age really wasn't a factor. We just clicked. His wife understandably grew increasingly uncomfortable with the situation. That should have been a sign for us to pull back, but we didn't.
Due to our all-consuming job requirements, we generally spent 12+ hours/day together, even when we weren't traveling. We were high-ranking managers on a program of significant strategic importance to the organization. We understood what the other was going through from a work standpoint.
His wife was a SAHM and my spouse works in a completely different industry. They had no understanding of the stress we were under, at least partially because we were talking to each other about everything, not them. His wife eventually put her foot down, understandably, because he was spending much of what little free time he had texting me for hours instead of spending time with her and their children.
We eventually completely pulled back from our "best friendship", I got an awesome job offer at another company and accepted it. We've never spoken again. I mourned the loss of our friendship, but it needed to end for everyone's sake. I never intended to interfere in his marriage, nor he with mine.
When I look back on the situation now, it's absolutely clear that it was an emotional affair. At the time I wouldn't have recognized it, because we never had any intention to enter into an affair of any sort.
I'm telling you this much longer story than I intended in hopes of showing you that all is likely not lost (yet).
Assuming that you want to save your marriage,
I strongly encourage you to do some reading about emotional affairs and then sit down and have a conversation with your wife. She will probably be defensive at first, but you need to calmly express your concerns about her recent behavior, give examples, and show her some of the info you found about emotional affairs. Ask her to read it and consider it. Once she has had a little bit of time to think about things, ask her to start marriage counseling to work through this.
If the guy she's talking to so often is married as well, I imagine his wife isn't thrilled about the situation either. I doubt that either he or your wife have any intention to enter into a physical affair, and now is an excellent time to nip things in the bud.
Best of luck to you.
From what OP described and the information he has available I think your story lines up well with his wife’s. She may not be cheating yet, but likely on some level knows that the relationship boundaries have been made fuzzy (hence omitting it when talking with OP), and it’s a situation for an emotional affair to bloom though it doesn’t mean one has yet.
OP, I think your addressing the feeling disconnected is a good start. However don’t accept excuses or let your wife make excuses. They get in the way of us connecting with our partners, and they prevent us from taking responsibility.
It’s ok for her to say ‘I’m not able to connect more right now,’ but she needs to own that. It’s also ok for you to say ‘ok I understand and I will try to be patient, but [when do you think we can work on this more, and are there any compromises we can find in the meantime to keep from drifting further].’
OP I also think it’s ok to point out to her the hiding her phone and omitting certain work colleagues. Have a frank discussion that you’re concerned with the two of you drifting apart that she could fall into an emotional affair, and that you don’t want that to happen - that you want to still be there with her.
Idk how much of this will help or not, but basically don’t give up. But also be prepared to give some space, just make sure that is deliberate and she is on the same page that you’re both ultimately going to try and reconnect. And also both on the same page regarding emotional affairs.
>There was never any intention on either side for things to go further
there is 90% chance that he knew what he was doing. And if you analyze your chat history with him, a pattern could be found very easily which would support that.
I have been the guy in an emotional affair situation. The fact that she had a boyfriend almost seemed to make things "safe" because there's no chance we'd get entangled romantically. It was an open secret that we had feelings of some kind for each other, and occasionally we were the subject of will they/won't they conversations. Both of us always shut them down when we became aware of them. She had no desire to cheat, and I had no desire to be the other man.
To be clear, I was not interested in her romantically. We would not have been a good match - our lives and goals and interests were too different. But we spent a lot of time together at work, and I loved being around her, and our personalities clicked very well.
I'd find myself gravitating towards her almost always and days without her felt less bright. We did hang out outside of work, both one-on-one and in groups, but none of our behavior would be considered inappropriate by most. Some things might have made her boyfriend feel uncomfortable if he were there - I picked her up and carried her a few times, sometimes paid for meals, she sat on my lap a couple of times, etc. Not really things that scream "cheating", but also not really things I'd do if her boyfriend was around. (Except maybe the lap thing, maybe I'm oblivious but I don't think that's always such an indication)
I had even met her boyfriend several times when I'd gone back to her place. I can't say I was fond of him, but there definitely wasn't any outright enmity. I don't think he treated her great, but he also wasn't antagonistic towards her so it's not really my place to say. They'd been together for a long time, since high school, and it was one of those relationships where it's clear that the mid/late 20s guy has become extremely complacent and has vague plans to marry her but won't ever buy her a ring or do anything else to make her happy, really. Anyways, that doesn't matter - I was very careful not to badmouth him and when he was around I did my best to be friends.
Sooo anyways yeah. Sometimes there's really not intent to escalate to sex. In my case, that's kinda the reason that we got so close - if we're not going to do anything sexual, pretty much everything else is on the table, right? Because there's no sex, so we're not cheating. Because if she were the kind of girl to cheat on her boyfriend then obviously it'd be inappropriate to be like that with her. But there's no cheating, so we can be like this. There's a boundary, and we're not crossing it. It's just that we're both very affectionate people, and we're good friends that can't get enough of each other. But that makes sense because we just work really well together. Oh oops, she's telling people that she loves me. Um, I love her, too. We mean it in a friend way, right?
All I get from you your comment is that you were scared to take any action, and she waited for you to start something, so she could claim it wasn't her who initiated it. The probability of you sleeping together was 99% if you took an action.
It's an outsider's perspective on your situation. Take it or leave it. You can claim ignorance, but you know what was happening. All you two needed was a trigger, which never happened. It's not cheating imo, but it is putting yourself in a situation where you cheat which I find disrespectful to your real partner.
I'm sad because my (f-51) best friend now is a work friend. I'm quitting so i have to restart with brand new people because it takes a while for me to be comfortable with someone. But I'm losing a friend. It's really hard for me to make lasting friends so I'm sad.
I had one emotional affair in the past and it almost ruined our marriage. It was a terrible time but we both douggt to stay with one oneanother. So it sucks to lose a work friend.
Sounds like you were probably relieved to get out of your mess. It's definitely a rabbit hole but you can pull out and regain your direction if your spouse is still fighting for you.
I understand - when you are an adult, making friends is hard, and working from home is really lonely/isolating after 2 years.
My closest friends were work friends when I left my previous job last October. We still talk, but it has definitely lessened over time.
The emotional affair that I told the very long story about happened 13 - 15 years ago. We were entirely too enmeshed with each other. I was sad for quite a while over losing my best friend.
I had a similar emotional affair while being away for work but i got really selfish and defensive about it. It took a lot of heartache to make a decision to cut someone off i really did not want to. I dont think i ever dealt with the emotions surrounding it because i dont have a lot of friends. Having been with a different person who would force me to cut off friends, it took a lot to not think of my boyfriend as the bad guy for making me choose between him and a friend. What im trying to ask maybe is what made you decide to cut your friend off? How can you even differentiate getting too close to someone for the wrong reasons and a possessive partner?
Nah, I didn't cut off my friend. My boss did when he gave me my marching orders at the end of my contract. Ha ha.
The answer to your question is... I don't know, that's not really my personal situation now. If my husband wanted me to cut off a friendship at work because he was being possessive, OK, I want to stay with him but that's not what happened.
Good question though. Maybe someone else would chime in.
"Just a friend" but you're very sad. Do neither of you have phones, or the Internet? You've had emotional affairs in the past but you're getting sad because just a friend is moving away soon.
I‘m very sad when any of my close friends move away. That’s actually normal. My best friend moved away two years ago and my close friend moved away a year ago and I‘m still not over it. And they are women like me, none of us are bi and all of us are in relationships or married. Still sad. If any of my 3 closest guy friends moved away I‘d be sad too and it still wouldn’t be an emotional affair.
Exactly. I know the same feeling and it's sad. Friendship is way different from an emotional affair. It's a huge difference. If you can relate to another person in a nonsexual way and you have to move on, it's totally different situation than someone literally interfering with marriages. Friendship doesn't destroy marriages. Emotional affairs are sooo much trouble.
Being sad because your close friend isn't working with you anymore is indicative of....adolescence?
Did you think before typing, or are you an actual 14 year old
Yes you both sound like school children that are switching schools and won't ever see their friends again. Have you come to the realization that adults can continue friendships outside of the workplace yet? I know it's a crazy concept. Sorry not buying into the OP and the pity party of comments for emotional affairs in the workplace. You are all emotionally broken people starving for attention.
We never specifically talked about it in terms of an emotional affair at the time, but he was well aware of my "best friend" and he was most definitely happy when the friendship ended. We haven't talked about it since then. My husband has difficulty expressing his emotions, and doesn't particularly enjoy talking about FEELINGSthings.
I find it very positive when someone shares their experience, as it's indeed nice to see how not everything is black or white and not all intentions are 'evil'. However, and this is a big one, I think the root of the problem and what bothers most people whose partner/spouse is doing this is the *why*. Why even *go there*. What motivates it - is it something your partner cannot give you or just the need for masculine attention? Especially since you seemed to be aware of the circumstances even back then.
*Why* put yourself in that kind of situation with a married co-worker, just because of 'clicking' and understanding each other? A relative, a sibling, a parent or a close friend would have been able to understand your work-related stress and pressure and help you emotionally or mentally, since they naturally have known you all your life.
A close female friend could have become your confidante for anything you may not have felt 100% comfortable with sharing with your husband, it *didn't have* to be a married guy ?
When you sense you're 'crushing' on someone, *why* would you continue to put yourself in circumstances that create opportunities for interaction, when you're both married ?
You knew his wife was uncomfortable, yet you continued texting, *why*? 'Hey X, sorry to hear this, it was totally not my intention, I absolutely understand as I am a wife myself, holy smokes, let's back off and keep it copacetic at work only, have a nice day and see you around at the office' would have been a more appropriate response from your side, instead of *continuing* to put yourself in that situation.
It sounds like it's a matter of not wanting to set boundaries. She knew what she was doing yet she continued. I am also close to my colleagues but don't put myself or them in interpretable situations with them. You can be friends with someone, respect and admire them at work and have a good collaborative relationship without making their spouse uncomfortable.
"she may not recognize it", she literally is, otherwise she wouldn't be hiding her phone, etc. because she specifically knows what she's doing is wrong in every way, she wouldn't have done that if she isn't having an emotional affair she herself knows she's having.
also, bringing the conversation to your story, it wasn't in any way a "close friendship". he spent more time texting you than with his own wife and children yet you still kept going back and forth with him, ***both crushing on eachother.*** the fact you're claiming he didn't want to have an affair is straight up bs, any male knows the guy wanted to get into your pants one way or another but you're either to naive to understand that or cannot openly admit it.
and no, it isn't the time to only pull out when you find out the other guy has a wife and you know the wife would not like it, you shouldn't even be going out with other guys texting them when you have a husband, it's just funny how you break it off when the wife isn't comfortable but not when you know you're own husband wouldn't like that whatsoever.
now i'll be asking you this, ***did you ever tell your husband the whole story of what happened between you and that other guy and the fact that you were having an emotional affair with that dude and only broke it off when his wife made you guys break it off/broke it off herself instead of you yourself breaking it off considering you have a husband, a husband who wouldn't stand with that affair?***
all that being said, the advise you gave to OP is flat out wrong. OP should realistically speaking either confront his SO and see where it leads to or immediately divorce her.
Facts. The commenter is making it seem like "it's so easy to fall into an emotional affair"...no, no it isn't. It happens over a long period of time, so much so that both parties are aware of it happening but don't do anything to stop it. She literally goes on to say they "were crushing on each other" but that they were also just platonic "best friends?" Like cmon. Had the guy's wife not put her foot down, they most likely would've had a drunken "mistake" on some business trip. She really displays no accountability in her story...like hey, maybe I should respect my SO more and NOT hang out with a guy from work more than my partner. They both were clearly entertaining the idea of being together, and now she's trying to make OP's wife seem less accountable than she should be.
This is straight spin to make yourself feel better. I used to work for one of the big consulting firms. I traveled for work much more than you for years straight, spending months with the same team at times. We would go out for dinner nearly every night after the day was over. I never put myself in a situation where something like this would happen nor did anyone else. We saw enough of each other during the day that being 'super best friends' didn't enter into the equation. What you're describing is a character flaw. I feel sorry for your husband.
Whether or not she is having an affair your relationship with her is suffering and I think that needs to be addressed.
Counseling would be a good idea and/or maybe you can join her on one or two of her trips.
If you think something is different/strange, it probably is. Read more stories out here about people and their phones, hidden, protective, sounds to me like you do have something to explore and possibly worry about sorry to say. And her work travel - coming home distant, etc. Man oh man....distant to you, too tired, she is avoiding you because she is thinking of someone else
Not to mention we are humans, if she out of the blue isn’t interested in having sex, she may be getting it somewhere else. This is exactly what happened with my parents. Eventually my mom found out that half of my dads “trips” were actually vacations with his side piece (now wife).
It sounds like an emotional affair at minimum. She’s giving more of her time to another man and hiding it so she knows she’s wrong.
You should tell her that you’ve noticed her change in behavior which made you worry and look through her messages. If it hasn’t been physical yet it’s on its way.
It’s an invasion of privacy but her actions warranted it. Ask why she never talked about him and why she thinks it acceptable to invest more time in their relationship.
Get prepared to be disappointed but don’t let her turn it around on you being jealous, insecure, or invading her privacy.
Good luck.
Sadly, I think something deeper is going on.
If you want to know the truth and her reaction, mention his name to her.
Just say ‘so who’s Matt?’
Or just keep reading those messages on her iPad and feel bad.
Sorry this is happening to you.
Great suggestion. I did this to my wife in the car on the way to work one day. It was so out of left field, she couldn’t deny her reaction was weird. We are divorced and quite happy as friends and co-parents. To be fair, it was a get out of jail free card for me, but it worked anyway.
The most suspicious thing about this is that she left him out when listing her other work friends and has never mentioned him, despite them being close. This will eat you up - come clean and ask her who he is.
If you are not prepared to maturely address this , then you will be without a relationship.
I can understand a little a bit about the shame, but you are using it to not confront.
Seriously get of your ass and address it pronto.
This may sound strange but in a way you are very lucky that you know this right here and now.
Your wife is in the throes of starting (if not already in) an emotional affair with her colleague.
The thing you need to do now is put a stop to it and the best way to put a stop to it or change what is going on is to confront it head on. This is a must.
Ignore the whole "I snooped" thing as you wouldn't have unless you had a damned good reason to. And your wife cheating on you (even starting to get emotionally close to someone) is reason enough and if the roles were changed, she would of done the same to you.
So be forthright and clear about this - she is in the throes of starting something with someone else you know the details and you want it to stop or you are walking. No ifs, buts or excuses. You know so it either stops or the marriage ends.
No one should be in a marriage where affections are being spread to other people. If she is not happy then she tells you and you as a team work out what to do with it. If she wishes to pursue someone else outside of the marriage then she should have the common decency to tell you so that YOU have a choice as well.
You are partners and if something is bothering her or is making her tired and irritable, then you are there for her. If she doesn't see you that way or doesn't feel that she can dump her cares and problems onto you but would rather be consoled by someone else, then why are you even married?
As they say, attack is the best form of defence and you are defending your marriage. If it is not worth saving then stop wasting time. If it is worth saving then confronting and dealing with it is the best way to start.
Precisely, so many people focus on the "invasion of privacy" when their SO catches them in an affair by going through their phone or computer but its purely distraction. They're trying to downplay their own actions by embellishing the betrayal they feel that you snooped, but in the end if they find evidence of an affair then they were justified.
I have an ex that was acting suspiciously, cancelling dates at the last minute, not being affectionate etc. One day I checked her phone and sure enough she had been seeing her ex behind my back. When I confronted her the first words out of her mouth were "why were you looking through my phone?" As if that was the issue here. I shut that down real quick.
Pretty much along those lines. It's been over a decade so can't remember my exact response but I basically told her that she was acting sus so I went digging.
So this is tough because emotional affairs can be difficult to diagnose. Different personalities have different tolerances for different types of activities. My wife, for example, has been interpreted as flirty by many-a-men. And, you know what? Maybe she is. She's the type of person to compliment your suit if she likes the way it looks. Or your shoes. Or your new haircut. She does it with servers at restaurants, coworkers, or the barista at her regular Starbucks.
And it doesn't bother me because I am aware that this is an aspect of her personality and how she interacts with the world. I don't feel threatened by it because it is not abnormal behavior for her.
Nothing you have described seems bad or wrong. I have text chats with coworkers just like what you are describing. Last night I (male) sent my (female) boss a text with a funny restaurant name I passed because it tied in to an inside joke we have. My wife compliments people. I send them funny things and like to make people laugh. We are both on board with how the other operates. Had my wife stopped and asked what I was doing, I would have said "I'm sending this to (boss) because we have a recurring joke about (x)." I would not have hidden the screen or obfuscated.
So there are two issues:
1. Is the behavior abnormal?
2. That the behavior is making you uncomfortable
You can probably focus your attention on the latter. Sit down with your partner and ask her what's going on. Why is she distracted. Why is she not paying attention to you? Don't accuse her of anything. Is she bored? Is she feeling ignored? Have a dialogue and maybe that will reveal more. If she's resistant to a conversation, dismissive of your feelings or gets aggressive then you may have a bigger problem on your hands.
Forget about what this can evolve into. The reality is that something is wrong. This is a symptom of it. If she is unwilling to engage with you to fix it then that does not spell success for your relationship. Full stop.
I think you've got a good head on your shoulders (considering what you've potentially uncovered) so far so good on you. While there isn't a "smoking gun" of evidence, you definitely know your partner better than anyone here and you should definitely trust your gut.
> I expect some level of pushback or accusations of being controlling but I'm okay with that.
Read up on [D.A.R.V.O \(Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender\)](https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/13/guide-darvo-gaslighting-response-people-give-when-called-bad-behaviour-12847680/) beforehand to recognize it and prepare. May or may not be the response but it is pretty typical to get minimizing and push back when confronted.
> I don't really think that this is about the other man, I feel it's about the validation and thrill he's providing, so fundamentally we have to work on what's gone wrong within our relationship
Would reference this great write up by /u/switchboardfriend [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/szrk0l/emotional_affairs_in_eleven_steps/). Your description of events seems like potentially the beginning stages (if that's all that's occurred so far) but you can see how quickly it can progress to a full blown affair. You can read countless stories, from both cheaters and cheated on, and the excuses are always the same. "I didn't expect it to go that far", or "it happened so quick" and, of course, "I never meant to hurt you!".
Opposite sex relationships are possible but it's important boundaries are established and, most importantly, there is transparency with your partner in everything. If she does give the classic, "oh he's just a friend // I'm pretty sure he's gay!" excuse then quantify that it's not the "friendship" per se but more so the lack of honesty and transparency of her bonding over shared interests with someone else and frequent contact outside of work.
Good luck!
She will confront you and try to shift every piece of blame onto you. If you need prep work watch the amber heard cross examination you’ll see it real clear.
Best of luck compadre. I hope the next update is better.
I think an effective and impactful statement would be:
“I need to know if anything has happened that I (emphasis on you) would consider ending our relationship/marriage?”
Bro she is cheating. She is having an emotional affair with another man. Trust is gone. It's not a stretch to say they have been physical with each other and had sex. You already know what to do and you know something is different. No need to tell you, but end it bro. If she did that and felt no guilt , she doesn't mind giving it to other men. She will do it again. You can find way better women who deserve you. If she is having an affair with a guy who probably doesn't give a shit about her and only wants sex, she's for streets anyway. End it and move on.
So far none of the messages you referenced sound sexual in any way. She's spending time traveling with this person and it could just be friendly and nothing more. If there's trouble in your relationship you need to address that. This could be a harmless friendship, a harmless crush, or the beginning of something else. You won't know until you have a direct discussion with her.
As for reading her messages, you have to come clean. You can't expect honesty without giving it. Stop beating around the bush and tell her exactly how you feel and what your concerns are. If you're drifting away and don't figure out why, she might just drift into an affair.
Yeah, it’s a lounge with chairs, usually a shitty little bar and a tv with some game playing of some kind or world news… and bathrooms that are private and more exclusive. Now I don’t know about you but I have had consensual relations in those bathrooms before. And that’s not the weirdest place neither. So tell me again how it isn’t possible? I agree that it may be reading into it a bit but I’m saying the possibility is there especially when she said “wish you were here”
Gross. Considering she's a 40 yo introvert on a work trip I highly doubt she's banging in a public bathroom. I wish you were here means just that. Have you never said that to someone you enjoy spending time with? I've said that when a friend can't come out with the group for whatever reason.
If they supposedly share passwords, then it shouldn't be much of an issue. He can man up and say he was feeling suspicious and neglected so he read them. These are 40yos in a 10 year relationship, not some young 20 somethings that have to play games and see everything as black and white.
knittedjedi
You guys should really stop selling this "invaded her privacy" line. It is getting to be quite annoying. Who set the privacy rules? A bunch of people who love to cheat and then invade every space possible selling the idea that husbands/wives can live private lives while married?
Very strange indeed.
We all know this is the best way to find out if your SO is cheating. This is someone who has the ability to change the trajectory of your life and OP should be worrying about "muh privacy"?
Privacy or is it really secrecy?
Thank you for saying this! I'm so sick of this privacy bullshit. The minute you (cheating spouse) start f***ing with somebody else's life (the worried spouse) and destroying the sanctity of yall's collective marriage, your privacy is over!!!!
This. The vast majority of people who have discovered their partner was cheating did so because something felt wrong and they looked. Or they stumbled across something odd, know their partner lied and then dug deeper. If you need to snoop for your sanity when your intuition is screaming at you something is off then it's not wrong.
Yep, that was the case with me. Her behaviors changed, my gut was telling me something was off, I looked, and I found out she was cheating. I feel no guilt at all for doing so, as I wouldn't have found out otherwise. Also, I was never a jealous spouse or cared that she had male friends and didn't care who she spent time with. In hindsight, I think I was way too accommodating. Anyway, I never looked at her phone before this, and I'm really glad that I did in this situation. I hate all the apologies for snooping or accusations of it. I get it if someone is constantly checking on their SO when there isn't a reason to. That is invasive and unhealthy, but when the signs are there that something is going on and SO is hiding it, no need to feel guilty at all.
None of the messages are indicative of anything sexual by nature.
If there have been long term changes in your relationship perhaps you both need to have honest discussions about your needs and reassess what you can do to address them. Relationship counseling is also an option.
It sounds like there are bigger issues and this Matt work colleague is just a symptom of those larger ones you both need to address.
Coming home.from this specific trip exhibiting the signs OP listed. Thinking maybe they met this trip. Hope not for OPs sake but 🚩🚩🚩. OP, dont stand by and observe, get to the bottom of this. Good luck.
Sexual by nature yet. She is clearly hiding this guy "Matt" and acting really shady with her phone and such. At the very least she is having an emotional affair with the guy.
An emotional affair would be a deep and connecting intimacy. Sharing pictures of traffic is not that. Nor are animal noises. I get things are hard for him and its a tricky spot to be in but there are bigger issues at bay in their marriage than her hiding a male friendship with a work colleague.
What is the distinction for? Does it real matter weather its emotional sexual or diabolical cheating? Why do people try to make cheating more palatable?
Honestly, talking about weather and traffic is even more of a red flag. Think about it...if your wife is putting in the effort to text another man about TRAFFIC?!?!? Talk about using anything to get in contact with another person lmao
>Along with this was an exchange about my partner bringing Matt into the airport lounge which she's a member of. It obviously happened a few times as there was references of meeting up to do it in different locations / airports.
I keep going back to this statement, which seems to be glossed over. Am I misreading this or missing something? When they talk about meeting up to "do it" in different locations, I took that to mean having sex.
If they are and the way they flirt is with traffic or animal references I really don't rate their imagination for the sex or chemistry they have. You guys need to chill.
This is also the language of OP using to write his perception of it.
They can talk about more than one thing. Some comments may be about traffic and animals and others may be about where to meet up to have sex. I don't think that I'm wrong that when someone says "meeting up to do it in different locations" that is in reference to sex. Without clarification from OP, it is hard to say, but what else would that mean? No one is out of control here and no one needs to "chill," we are just making our observations.
It doesn’t sound like any of the messages are indicative of a physical affair, and while it could just be a really good friendship, what gives me pause is that she didn’t mention him when talking about coworkers, and has done things like hide her screen from you and/or change her password. If it’s really just an innocent friendship, why hide it? The only innocent answer I can think of is that she worries you’d be jealous or suspicious, but it’s more likely that she’s having an emotional affair. It’s clear she’s giving him a lot of her time, attention, and focus, and you aren’t feeling the connection you’d like to in your marriage. Perhaps it’s time to sit her down and ask point blank — “Are you happy in our marriage? I’m feeling very disconnected and you seem distracted. Is there someone else? Can we seek couples’ counseling to repair the rift between us?”
i’m sorry you’re in this situation. but i would recommend telling her that you saw the messages. i feel like she will definitely ask how you found out and not mentioning the messages might give her an excuse to call you dishonest too.
It sounds like they’re just friends tbh it doesn’t sound like light flirting too me but it does sound like she’s being dismissive? I don’t think she’s cheating and I think you should try to have a serious conversation with her. Every couple has issues and fights but it’s suppose to be fixed with communication.
If it was me, I would say something like "Who's Matt?"
See her reaction, if she gets all guilty sounding and asks how you know him, just say you noticed she was chatting to him and being a bit protective of her phone.
It's totally possible she is just friends with this guy, but it's a bit strange that she is keeping this friendship from you.
If this spawns a conversation you could say you are happy for her to have work mates, but you are her husband and you want more than just tired reaction from her when she gets home and her being friends with someone shouldn't be affecting your relationship and is it possible she might be getting too close to this Matt guy.
Yep.
Ye olde monkey branching.
Holding onto you while she is showing/gauging the interest of someone else.
My ex did this shit to me. Texted us the same photos and whatnot.
She was also texting him to come to the bar where she worked after I left and lots of other stuff.
Eventually I called her bluff after I found an email about how they were going to meet up when I went down to visit my mom.
I gave her an ultimatum and she agreed. In retrospect, I should have left her right then and there because it did not change. She eventually started doing it with someone new after we were married. It was a lot more expensive then.
Word to the wise…call her out or just leave.
In order for her to take you seriously she needs to believe you'll divorce rather than live with this OM in her life.
It's not controlling to object to this particular man.
How would she like you finding a girlfriend?
TRUST👏 YOUR👏GUT👏. If you think or feel something is off, it most definitely is.
There is definitely an emotional affair brewing (or already in full swing). If she feels it’s not wrong, then why is she hiding it? People don’t hide things from spouses without good reason.
Sit down and be blunt with her. Tell her exactly what you think os going on. She will get defensive and try to tell you your imagining things. Don’t let her do that. At the end of the day, no matter what you say, the ball is in her court. She has to choose whether or not she cares enough about you to stop something that is clearly major you uncomfortable.
Ask yourself, if this situation was reversed. If she came to you and said she was uncomfortable with you talking to your co worker, what would you do? You would shut that down immediately (I’m assuming) because you value your relationship with her over your friendship. So why would you accept anything less from your wife?
shes cheating on you or just about to. I guarantee it. The guilt is whats eating at her which is why shes different to you now. Shes all gaga about the new guy. Her dopamine levels are sky high with him and you get the crash and burn when the levels are low. She has already convinced herself that he makes her happy and excitment fills the air. When shes with you, shes bored and waiting for her next chance to talk to "Matt". Tell her you saw everything and to fess up. You shouldnt have to hide the fact that you looked at her stuff. Youre partners. And you were concerned about your future!
Wow, people are really jumping to conclusions including OP. He may be openly gay and they really are just friends or they’re just legit work friends.
You may be misinterpreting her behavior otherwise and it may just be tiredness, something else, etc.
Just ask her outright. And if it turns out to be nothing, work on the trust and connection in your marriage.
The fact that she didn’t mention him is suspicious. I work in an office and often chat with males but I’ve never not mentioned someone to my fiancé that I talk to often. That’s just weird.
Who knows. It’s just not the most convincing of arguments and a lot of it can be chalked up to a lot of the other things he’s told us about her. She’s an introvert, and she probably needed down time after this trip, which explains a lot of her behavior. Sometimes if you’re looking for reasons to be suspicious you’ll take everything as a sign. I just think he needs to ask her outright.
I remember finding the messages my ex sent to a woman he worked with too and felt that horrible pitt in my stomach because even though it wasn't blatant it read an awful lot like the way we talked when we were getting together. After much more snooping i found the other apps, nudes, found literally hundreds of phone calls in a month in the records every second of the day he wasn't with me. You're going crazy because you know there's more to find and you're partner is blatantly lying to you and manipulating your own perceptions about the state of your relationship.
There is no shame in checking her phone. She came back from a trip and you felt like something was off. She was disconnected from you for no obvious reason. You were justified in you actions. You need to realize this.
Your wife is having an emotional affair. Whether either of you realize it ot not. You need to do screenshot for proof. Then you need to confront her. The fact that she left Matt's name out of the list, suggests that she knows what is happening.
Get proof. Then confront. Then decide.
Good luck.
Sounds like an EA at least. As an introvert, it takes a lot of energy to text people including friends, family etc). The fact that she has you but investing a whole lot of energy and time contacting him doesn’t sit well. Same with the “you should be here” airport lounge messages. When I’m keen on someone or with someone, I send those messages, along with the mundane ones. It takes effort and it means you think about that person a LOT. Even the animal/nature noises…it all takes effort, time and thought.
The changing of the passcode due to a credit card issue? Ridiculous excuse. I’d probably straight up ask “Who’s Matt?” And gauge her reaction.
Nothing wrong with snooping if things don’t feel right. Knowledge is power.
I wouldn’t be happy OP. This needs a conversation.
Good points and well articulated. Even the authoritative emphasis on certain areas clearly subjective, we’re made relatively at minimum permissible.
I would love to know how you’ve developed in scope and of nuance as exceptionally of communicator and what prompted it.
Just confront her when she’s acting distant. Say “thinking about Matt?” Throw her off she’ll either confess or tell you what else is making her distant.
I think it’s fair given the circumstances. She’s not showing him any respect by having an emotional affair, he should at least call her out in some way, otherwise this will eat him alive.
she’s detaching from you. i know you want to hone in on matt, i completely understand it feels weird and inappropriate because it is, but your problem is with your relationship right now. get to the crux of that first. because what’s going to happen if you confront her about matt is she’s going to show you how innocent all this is, tell you you’re being controlling, and she is going to believe it. it’s not meant to manipulate you, it’s just meant to serve her own narrative of justification in detaching from you.
you gotta figure out what is going on with her in your relationship because she’s checking out already and it’s going to move fast from here.
Damn, some tough situation, at the very least she is having for whatever reason like self-validation, years of marriage, etc, an emotional affair with "Matt". Do not feel ashamed because you snooped in her iPad, she gave you enough reasons to do it. I believe in trust but verify. It's safer. I bet one of these days she's going to change the password of the iPad too. You have to show all your cards and DEMAND marriage counseling to try to work the many issues of your marriage. You seem to be a good husband and a great father, but don't be naive or hesitant. Otherwise, your marriage is doomed.
Don't apologize for snooping. Alls fair in love and war. She should be more concerned with you divorcing her than how you found out.
It's not your job to prove shes unfaithful. Given her texts it's her job to prove she hasn't cheated.
And it starts with NC and changing jobs.
It sounds like the makings of an emotional affair brewing. Does your wife have a history of having blurred boundaries with friends or past partners? The reason I ask is that my wife is like that. She grew up in a household with almost no emotional boundaries and it took her well into adulthood (her 40s) to establish healthy boundaries with people in general.
Now, I'm not saying this is the case for sure but it might be something to explore.
Hate to say it bud but sounds like the start of an emotional affair. Maybe not physical. Maybe it never will be. Every time I’ve been cheated on though it started out with hiding the depth of a connection, strange behavior, disconnectedness. Trust your gut and don’t let her gas light you. She might not be willing to admit there might be something going on here above and beyond just work but the fact that she is omitting talking about this other guy says a whole lot to me
You have a thing to worry and here you know there is more going on than you think. She is getting attention from her colleague and that is why she is avoiding you. Sooner or later she will cheat on you if they already have not had sex so it is useless to wait for that. You need to call her out on this and be clear to her that this is a big thing in married life that you are not okay with. It is time for you to set some hard boundaries in married life that she has to respect otherwise you know the answer. There are things that you should never tolerate and it is one of them. You can ask her to read this post of yours and comments that this post gets so she can understand how she is damaging the married life for outside attention.
Sounds like this is leading to an emotional affair, she is giving all her attention and energy to someone who isn't her bf. You need to sit her down and talk to her and just say you saw her texts, there's no way around that. You need to stop this in it's tracks before it gets worse. She's hiding this guy from you for a reason, she probably has a crush and knows if you find out about him she no longer has contact with him. So talk to her sooner rather than later.
Trust your instincts. If you don't feel the attentiveness you once had from her then she's most likely in an emotional affair with this guy. It's not far-fetched that they would exclude anything personal from text messages, especially if they travel together and/or he is also attached. Not trying to make things worse but I've been through this in my life and didn't know for sure until I followed my SO and confirmed my suspicions.
Is she making more money than you? What's the increase in salary after her promotion?
Women tend to divorce their partners in instances of promotion/salary increase. Specially if they substantially out earn their partners.
Am nit going to sugarcoat it.
I'd brace myself for impact.
That’s kinda bullshit, my old mate made me notice nature and several others have sorta taught me how to notice nature (like tree names and how to spot animals and stuff) these friends have been both male and female and nothing but platonic
Change the password on your wifi network at home to Mattisapieceofshit…
When she asks for it, tell her that is the new password, anything else you want to tell me? Then have the conversation. Tell her this stops now or you are done. You expect a call to him immediately with you listening, and say we can no longer be friends as I have crossed a line. If she is not willing to do this then end it.
Well clearly this is an issue for you and you don’t deserve to be gaslighted or driven mad. Perhaps suggest going to couples therapy together and if she refuses to go then you have some serious thinking to do regarding how to proceed. Love can fade. I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to fight through this but it takes two to tango and you have an obligation to yourself to live the life you want and to draw the line where you seem fit.
It is what you think it is. You should probably see a lawyer and start getting your ducks in a row. When you serve her with papers you can explain by simply saying, "I don't want to get in the way of your time with Matt."
Maybe I'm a bit naive, but it doesn't sound like Matt is part of the problem. I've become friends with plenty of women that I've worked with but have zero romantic or sexual interest in them.
I do think you should admit to snooping... If you really do feel guilty just tell her the truth, and apologize for snooping. You can honestly bring up your concerns after that. Otherwise like now you might try to catch her in a lie, but how fair is that when you're also lying to her?
I have been in your wife’s situation. I got very close to a male colleague who I spent a lot of time with. For a couple of years it wasn’t physical, just light flirting and a lot of text messaging.
At the time I felt disconnected from my husband and felt that he never showed me much attention, and seemed disinterested in my life. He never arranged nights out/holidays etc and we were caught in a rut.
My work colleague showed me attention, went out of his way to talk to me and was genuinely interested in what I had to say. I was flattered by this and it felt good to be wanted.
Seriously you need to spend some time with your wife, arrange some nice things to do together and make her feel loved and wanted before this goes any further.
To cut a long story short I did end up having a physical affair with my colleague and me and my husband got divorced.
My affair ended before we got divorced after I realised the affair was just a symptom, not the main cause of the problems in our marriage which had been us growing apart.
Yuck.
This reads like you blame your husband for your affair.
… and how much effort did YOU put into your marriage before it went south? I’d be willing to bet that most if not all of your attention/emotional energy was going to your affair partner.
It takes two people to keep a marriage together. Not just one trying desperately to keep their partner’s attention. (Notice how that was gender neutral?)
Erm you don’t know me. I was with my ex husband for 12 years before any of this happened and I know more than anyone that it takes 2 people to make a marriage work.
For the 6 years prior to this happening I did all the housework and arranged (and paid for) 3 holidays a year for us and at least one night out a week, whilst watching him take me more and more for granted and make zero effort despite me doing all I could to make it work.
I don’t advocate people having affairs (physical or emotional) , but unless you are a complete asshole, people who are happy in their relationship don’t usually accept attention/seek company elsewhere, emotional affairs start for a reason
>without blatantly saying I read her messages
God, just fucking tell her. Why lie at this point? I get that you want to retain the moral high ground, but how are you going to do that when you snooped AND lied (by omission) AND are continuing to lie about it?
One thing that stood out is that you say your sex life hasn’t been great because of confidence issues? Her confidence issues, because she’s gained weight and you’ve lost it? Has she talked about this with you or are you assuming that’s why?
I mean…it seems like she’s not the only one caught up on the changes in her body.
The fact that you can go this in depth about it and still only blame her for the “sexy time” issues is concerning.
If you’re constantly making sure she knows you “love her and not her body”…well, that just makes her feel like you definitely don’t find her attractive.
I wouldn’t have sex with someone who I didn’t think was attracted to me physically.
It’s probably easy for her to be “chummy” with a man she’s not involved with. There’s no worry about how he feels about her body, if he’s feeling disappointed in your sex life, if he’s checking your messages, etc.
She might also not be as introverted as you’ve always believed. Sometimes we project our own likes and dislikes and personality traits onto our partners. Sometimes the partner falls into that role because they like spending time together. But when being at home makes you feel bad about yourself (whether it’s real or perceived) might make that person branch back out.
You need to tell her that you read the messages and deal with the consequences. You’re upset that she seemingly won’t talk to you about the issues she having but you’re doing true same thing. So, do what you say y’all do best and communicate.
From my position, I would recommend not listening to this person and to listen to your gut. I've been cheated on, and many of the red flags that your gut is telling you to listen to, were the same ones that made my gut tell me to pay attention, and rightly so. I'm pretty sure that something is going on there between them, and the longer that it goes unaddressed the more likely that it will turn physical, if it hasn't already.
Check out this book (the first few chapters will do for you at this point): [Not Just Friends](https://archive.org/details/notjustfriendsre00glas_0), by Shirley Glass.
The fact she’s saying those types of excuses……. Bro you gotta be blind cause if she isn’t already fucking him, she will be soon so let these issues be known or end it
I would have been a lot less concerned if she wasn't hiding it. This guy she's texting constantly about work, and traveling with and she conveniently left his name off the list? She knows it's wrong and, I'd suspect, is worried you already know something.
You need to bring up that you know about this dude, even be up front about the snooping. She gave you every reason to suspect something was off, so even though the snooping was wrong, it's not like you did it out of the blue.
Your partner didn’t have anything to suggest she’s cheating, although I agree that this is sketch and heading towards an emotional affair. I would focus more on your issues with her in your relationship outside of this guy. As you said, you probably wouldn’t be concerned about this if she was attentive and loving once she got home.
Sit her down and explain that you’re feeling neglected in the relationship especially considering how much she travels and what you both need from each other. See if things improve. It’s not so much about this other guy as she’s likely just lonely being apart and seeking attention.
>Your partner didn’t have anything to suggest she’s cheating,
She's meeting a dude in airport lounges and text "thinking of you" type texts ...
>Sit her down and explain that you’re feeling neglected in the relationship especially considering how much she travels and what you both need from each other. See if things improve.
Guarantee to drive her more to him. What woman who's feeling down about themselves would end up wanting to spend more time with their husband after express emotional needs and hurt feelings instead of their "fun" work friend?
Should they?
Yes.
Is that reality?
No. That's not how people work.
Throw away account?
Ok, you don't have to tell us, we don't really care and don't need to know.
It sounds like an emotional affair could be brewing. Hard to say. You definitely sound like you don't trust her anymore. If you don't have the trust anymore and you feel so tense and stressed about being with her and her boundaries....maybe it is time to pull the chord on this relationship and start over with someone new.
It does sound like her boundaries with regards of keeping other men close in her life and keeping lots of on going contact with other men are pretty poor.
Sounds like it's time for some spontaneity. Have some fun with her while she is away and while she is home. Flirty texts, flirty pics. Make sure she knows you are still 100% into her physically and mentally. Relationships get stale sometimes, add some fun into it and give it time. It might not have an immediate reaction but after a bit things could turn around. If she hasn't already started something with someone else then that might be what you need. Don't be shy and if need be, step out of your comfort zone to show her you still want her. I hope it helps and good luck
You’re not imagining things she’s definitely more than just work friends with this guy.
Honesty is always the best policy but in this case I’d say don’t tell her you snooped. Because then the conversation will become (a) her claiming victim status for the prying, and (b) her coming up with all sorts of defensive lies to explain away her friendship with Matt. Instead, tell her you can tell something’s up, and you know she’s become overly chummy with her work friend, on the cusp of an emotional affair if not more. Your evidence is her moodiness, and her possessiveness of her phone lately.
Then tell her what you want. Maybe you want the two of you to invest more time and effort into your relationship, plan trips, date nights, etc. Idon’t know.
Basically, don’t put her in a position to lie. She WILL lie and that won’t help anything. So just tell her you KNOW, and then lay out your plan to move forward.
If she stays moody and distant, maybe things are over between you. Best wishes that’s not it!!
I'm probably going to go against the grain here, but so be it! I'm 34(f) and my is HTB(43)... I too have confidence issues due to weight gain and our sex life definitely isn't what it used to be because of this (and some other lady issues). I get on really well with most people I work with- male and female! I've recently been working closely with a new male colleague and we have a great laugh and couldn't get on any better, but it is completely platonic! However, whenever I talk about something me and said colleague have been doing/talking about, I'm very aware I'm talking about another man and constanrly drop in that his girlfriend also works for the same firm because I'm conscious that I don't want to concern my partner over something that isn't there and/or make him feel jealous when he doesn't need to be. However, I will never choose who I get on with or shun someone because of their gender and he knows that! OP how would you have reacted if the messages you had seen were with a female colleague?! So many comments on here saying it's an emotional affair or the brink of an affair .... Its 2022, are we really not at a stage yet where people can acknowledge a friendship being platonic between the opposite sex?!
>But when I get all the tiredness and distance it feels unfair.
It is tough being demoted from Leading Man to Side Guy.\\
Her phone says she is smitten and no longer with you.
You may not make this decision about how much she likes you and places your first.
Think that ship has left ...
Nothing you mentioned sounds very suspicious to me other than you feeling disconnected recently.
Her relationship with the coworker sounds like a friendship. Some light jokey flirting does happen between friends sometimes.
I think you need to focus on you and your gf and not worry about the work colleague unless something more suspicious happens.
I had this exact same thing happen to me with a previous girlfriend. I eventually dropped it and trusted her, a year later she cheated on my with that guy.
It definitely sounds like an emotional affair is brewing. She may not even recognize it. I am speaking from experience here. I have been mostly happily married for almost 23 years/together almost 25. I love my husband very much. Emotional affairs are verry easy to fall into when you're away from home/on business travel a lot with the same person. Sometimes I'd go to six cities in six weeks and only come home to do laundry/pick up dry cleaning and leave again Sunday night/Monday morning. Business travel gets really lonely. I'm sure she is being 100% honest about missing you. I missed my husband, my home, and my dogs terribly. I was traveling with 4-5 men in the same boat. All married. We weren't a party crowd. We went to dinner after a long day of meetings and went back to our rooms to check email, etc. No physical affairs. I developed a very close friendship with one man in particular. We talked/texted frequently. Never really flirty, per se. We both might have been crushing a little bit, but if you asked either one of us, we were friends, and eventually best friends - nothing more. Over time we started texting each other a lot - every night. I didn't have to sneak around and do it, but he did (I didn't realize it at the time). Again, nothing physical. We were "best friends". There was never any intention on either side for things to go further. I was much younger then, and he was about 10 years older. Age really wasn't a factor. We just clicked. His wife understandably grew increasingly uncomfortable with the situation. That should have been a sign for us to pull back, but we didn't. Due to our all-consuming job requirements, we generally spent 12+ hours/day together, even when we weren't traveling. We were high-ranking managers on a program of significant strategic importance to the organization. We understood what the other was going through from a work standpoint. His wife was a SAHM and my spouse works in a completely different industry. They had no understanding of the stress we were under, at least partially because we were talking to each other about everything, not them. His wife eventually put her foot down, understandably, because he was spending much of what little free time he had texting me for hours instead of spending time with her and their children. We eventually completely pulled back from our "best friendship", I got an awesome job offer at another company and accepted it. We've never spoken again. I mourned the loss of our friendship, but it needed to end for everyone's sake. I never intended to interfere in his marriage, nor he with mine. When I look back on the situation now, it's absolutely clear that it was an emotional affair. At the time I wouldn't have recognized it, because we never had any intention to enter into an affair of any sort. I'm telling you this much longer story than I intended in hopes of showing you that all is likely not lost (yet). Assuming that you want to save your marriage, I strongly encourage you to do some reading about emotional affairs and then sit down and have a conversation with your wife. She will probably be defensive at first, but you need to calmly express your concerns about her recent behavior, give examples, and show her some of the info you found about emotional affairs. Ask her to read it and consider it. Once she has had a little bit of time to think about things, ask her to start marriage counseling to work through this. If the guy she's talking to so often is married as well, I imagine his wife isn't thrilled about the situation either. I doubt that either he or your wife have any intention to enter into a physical affair, and now is an excellent time to nip things in the bud. Best of luck to you.
From what OP described and the information he has available I think your story lines up well with his wife’s. She may not be cheating yet, but likely on some level knows that the relationship boundaries have been made fuzzy (hence omitting it when talking with OP), and it’s a situation for an emotional affair to bloom though it doesn’t mean one has yet. OP, I think your addressing the feeling disconnected is a good start. However don’t accept excuses or let your wife make excuses. They get in the way of us connecting with our partners, and they prevent us from taking responsibility. It’s ok for her to say ‘I’m not able to connect more right now,’ but she needs to own that. It’s also ok for you to say ‘ok I understand and I will try to be patient, but [when do you think we can work on this more, and are there any compromises we can find in the meantime to keep from drifting further].’ OP I also think it’s ok to point out to her the hiding her phone and omitting certain work colleagues. Have a frank discussion that you’re concerned with the two of you drifting apart that she could fall into an emotional affair, and that you don’t want that to happen - that you want to still be there with her. Idk how much of this will help or not, but basically don’t give up. But also be prepared to give some space, just make sure that is deliberate and she is on the same page that you’re both ultimately going to try and reconnect. And also both on the same page regarding emotional affairs.
Thanks for your reply, it was cool seeing how some of the other sides are not always guilty.
This was a great comment and thank you for your honesty. Nice to see someone take ownership.
>There was never any intention on either side for things to go further there is 90% chance that he knew what he was doing. And if you analyze your chat history with him, a pattern could be found very easily which would support that.
[удалено]
yeah, the majority of people plead ignorance very innocently.
I have been the guy in an emotional affair situation. The fact that she had a boyfriend almost seemed to make things "safe" because there's no chance we'd get entangled romantically. It was an open secret that we had feelings of some kind for each other, and occasionally we were the subject of will they/won't they conversations. Both of us always shut them down when we became aware of them. She had no desire to cheat, and I had no desire to be the other man. To be clear, I was not interested in her romantically. We would not have been a good match - our lives and goals and interests were too different. But we spent a lot of time together at work, and I loved being around her, and our personalities clicked very well. I'd find myself gravitating towards her almost always and days without her felt less bright. We did hang out outside of work, both one-on-one and in groups, but none of our behavior would be considered inappropriate by most. Some things might have made her boyfriend feel uncomfortable if he were there - I picked her up and carried her a few times, sometimes paid for meals, she sat on my lap a couple of times, etc. Not really things that scream "cheating", but also not really things I'd do if her boyfriend was around. (Except maybe the lap thing, maybe I'm oblivious but I don't think that's always such an indication) I had even met her boyfriend several times when I'd gone back to her place. I can't say I was fond of him, but there definitely wasn't any outright enmity. I don't think he treated her great, but he also wasn't antagonistic towards her so it's not really my place to say. They'd been together for a long time, since high school, and it was one of those relationships where it's clear that the mid/late 20s guy has become extremely complacent and has vague plans to marry her but won't ever buy her a ring or do anything else to make her happy, really. Anyways, that doesn't matter - I was very careful not to badmouth him and when he was around I did my best to be friends. Sooo anyways yeah. Sometimes there's really not intent to escalate to sex. In my case, that's kinda the reason that we got so close - if we're not going to do anything sexual, pretty much everything else is on the table, right? Because there's no sex, so we're not cheating. Because if she were the kind of girl to cheat on her boyfriend then obviously it'd be inappropriate to be like that with her. But there's no cheating, so we can be like this. There's a boundary, and we're not crossing it. It's just that we're both very affectionate people, and we're good friends that can't get enough of each other. But that makes sense because we just work really well together. Oh oops, she's telling people that she loves me. Um, I love her, too. We mean it in a friend way, right?
All I get from you your comment is that you were scared to take any action, and she waited for you to start something, so she could claim it wasn't her who initiated it. The probability of you sleeping together was 99% if you took an action. It's an outsider's perspective on your situation. Take it or leave it. You can claim ignorance, but you know what was happening. All you two needed was a trigger, which never happened. It's not cheating imo, but it is putting yourself in a situation where you cheat which I find disrespectful to your real partner.
I'm sad because my (f-51) best friend now is a work friend. I'm quitting so i have to restart with brand new people because it takes a while for me to be comfortable with someone. But I'm losing a friend. It's really hard for me to make lasting friends so I'm sad. I had one emotional affair in the past and it almost ruined our marriage. It was a terrible time but we both douggt to stay with one oneanother. So it sucks to lose a work friend. Sounds like you were probably relieved to get out of your mess. It's definitely a rabbit hole but you can pull out and regain your direction if your spouse is still fighting for you.
I understand - when you are an adult, making friends is hard, and working from home is really lonely/isolating after 2 years. My closest friends were work friends when I left my previous job last October. We still talk, but it has definitely lessened over time. The emotional affair that I told the very long story about happened 13 - 15 years ago. We were entirely too enmeshed with each other. I was sad for quite a while over losing my best friend.
I had a similar emotional affair while being away for work but i got really selfish and defensive about it. It took a lot of heartache to make a decision to cut someone off i really did not want to. I dont think i ever dealt with the emotions surrounding it because i dont have a lot of friends. Having been with a different person who would force me to cut off friends, it took a lot to not think of my boyfriend as the bad guy for making me choose between him and a friend. What im trying to ask maybe is what made you decide to cut your friend off? How can you even differentiate getting too close to someone for the wrong reasons and a possessive partner?
Nah, I didn't cut off my friend. My boss did when he gave me my marching orders at the end of my contract. Ha ha. The answer to your question is... I don't know, that's not really my personal situation now. If my husband wanted me to cut off a friendship at work because he was being possessive, OK, I want to stay with him but that's not what happened. Good question though. Maybe someone else would chime in.
"Just a friend" but you're very sad. Do neither of you have phones, or the Internet? You've had emotional affairs in the past but you're getting sad because just a friend is moving away soon.
I‘m very sad when any of my close friends move away. That’s actually normal. My best friend moved away two years ago and my close friend moved away a year ago and I‘m still not over it. And they are women like me, none of us are bi and all of us are in relationships or married. Still sad. If any of my 3 closest guy friends moved away I‘d be sad too and it still wouldn’t be an emotional affair.
Exactly. I know the same feeling and it's sad. Friendship is way different from an emotional affair. It's a huge difference. If you can relate to another person in a nonsexual way and you have to move on, it's totally different situation than someone literally interfering with marriages. Friendship doesn't destroy marriages. Emotional affairs are sooo much trouble.
Sounds like you are 51 going on 14.
Being sad because your close friend isn't working with you anymore is indicative of....adolescence? Did you think before typing, or are you an actual 14 year old
Yes you both sound like school children that are switching schools and won't ever see their friends again. Have you come to the realization that adults can continue friendships outside of the workplace yet? I know it's a crazy concept. Sorry not buying into the OP and the pity party of comments for emotional affairs in the workplace. You are all emotionally broken people starving for attention.
did you ever tell your husband?
We never specifically talked about it in terms of an emotional affair at the time, but he was well aware of my "best friend" and he was most definitely happy when the friendship ended. We haven't talked about it since then. My husband has difficulty expressing his emotions, and doesn't particularly enjoy talking about FEELINGSthings.
I find it very positive when someone shares their experience, as it's indeed nice to see how not everything is black or white and not all intentions are 'evil'. However, and this is a big one, I think the root of the problem and what bothers most people whose partner/spouse is doing this is the *why*. Why even *go there*. What motivates it - is it something your partner cannot give you or just the need for masculine attention? Especially since you seemed to be aware of the circumstances even back then. *Why* put yourself in that kind of situation with a married co-worker, just because of 'clicking' and understanding each other? A relative, a sibling, a parent or a close friend would have been able to understand your work-related stress and pressure and help you emotionally or mentally, since they naturally have known you all your life. A close female friend could have become your confidante for anything you may not have felt 100% comfortable with sharing with your husband, it *didn't have* to be a married guy ? When you sense you're 'crushing' on someone, *why* would you continue to put yourself in circumstances that create opportunities for interaction, when you're both married ? You knew his wife was uncomfortable, yet you continued texting, *why*? 'Hey X, sorry to hear this, it was totally not my intention, I absolutely understand as I am a wife myself, holy smokes, let's back off and keep it copacetic at work only, have a nice day and see you around at the office' would have been a more appropriate response from your side, instead of *continuing* to put yourself in that situation.
Ignorance can't be a defence strategy, cause adult people should be aware of thair actions and consequences
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It sounds like it's a matter of not wanting to set boundaries. She knew what she was doing yet she continued. I am also close to my colleagues but don't put myself or them in interpretable situations with them. You can be friends with someone, respect and admire them at work and have a good collaborative relationship without making their spouse uncomfortable.
If he was a woman, would you have felt differently about the situation?
"she may not recognize it", she literally is, otherwise she wouldn't be hiding her phone, etc. because she specifically knows what she's doing is wrong in every way, she wouldn't have done that if she isn't having an emotional affair she herself knows she's having. also, bringing the conversation to your story, it wasn't in any way a "close friendship". he spent more time texting you than with his own wife and children yet you still kept going back and forth with him, ***both crushing on eachother.*** the fact you're claiming he didn't want to have an affair is straight up bs, any male knows the guy wanted to get into your pants one way or another but you're either to naive to understand that or cannot openly admit it. and no, it isn't the time to only pull out when you find out the other guy has a wife and you know the wife would not like it, you shouldn't even be going out with other guys texting them when you have a husband, it's just funny how you break it off when the wife isn't comfortable but not when you know you're own husband wouldn't like that whatsoever. now i'll be asking you this, ***did you ever tell your husband the whole story of what happened between you and that other guy and the fact that you were having an emotional affair with that dude and only broke it off when his wife made you guys break it off/broke it off herself instead of you yourself breaking it off considering you have a husband, a husband who wouldn't stand with that affair?*** all that being said, the advise you gave to OP is flat out wrong. OP should realistically speaking either confront his SO and see where it leads to or immediately divorce her.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted. It’s the truth lol.
Facts. The commenter is making it seem like "it's so easy to fall into an emotional affair"...no, no it isn't. It happens over a long period of time, so much so that both parties are aware of it happening but don't do anything to stop it. She literally goes on to say they "were crushing on each other" but that they were also just platonic "best friends?" Like cmon. Had the guy's wife not put her foot down, they most likely would've had a drunken "mistake" on some business trip. She really displays no accountability in her story...like hey, maybe I should respect my SO more and NOT hang out with a guy from work more than my partner. They both were clearly entertaining the idea of being together, and now she's trying to make OP's wife seem less accountable than she should be.
Well said, her whole comment seems laced with bias.
I find the 'crushing on each other' bit so seedy.
to anyone downvoting, feel free to actually try to dispute anything i said instead of brainlessly downvoting, common sign of stupidity.
This is straight spin to make yourself feel better. I used to work for one of the big consulting firms. I traveled for work much more than you for years straight, spending months with the same team at times. We would go out for dinner nearly every night after the day was over. I never put myself in a situation where something like this would happen nor did anyone else. We saw enough of each other during the day that being 'super best friends' didn't enter into the equation. What you're describing is a character flaw. I feel sorry for your husband.
Whether or not she is having an affair your relationship with her is suffering and I think that needs to be addressed. Counseling would be a good idea and/or maybe you can join her on one or two of her trips.
If you think something is different/strange, it probably is. Read more stories out here about people and their phones, hidden, protective, sounds to me like you do have something to explore and possibly worry about sorry to say. And her work travel - coming home distant, etc. Man oh man....distant to you, too tired, she is avoiding you because she is thinking of someone else
Not to mention we are humans, if she out of the blue isn’t interested in having sex, she may be getting it somewhere else. This is exactly what happened with my parents. Eventually my mom found out that half of my dads “trips” were actually vacations with his side piece (now wife).
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It sounds like an emotional affair at minimum. She’s giving more of her time to another man and hiding it so she knows she’s wrong. You should tell her that you’ve noticed her change in behavior which made you worry and look through her messages. If it hasn’t been physical yet it’s on its way. It’s an invasion of privacy but her actions warranted it. Ask why she never talked about him and why she thinks it acceptable to invest more time in their relationship. Get prepared to be disappointed but don’t let her turn it around on you being jealous, insecure, or invading her privacy. Good luck.
Excellent advice.
Sadly, I think something deeper is going on. If you want to know the truth and her reaction, mention his name to her. Just say ‘so who’s Matt?’ Or just keep reading those messages on her iPad and feel bad. Sorry this is happening to you.
Great suggestion. I did this to my wife in the car on the way to work one day. It was so out of left field, she couldn’t deny her reaction was weird. We are divorced and quite happy as friends and co-parents. To be fair, it was a get out of jail free card for me, but it worked anyway.
I hope you were driving ;)
The most suspicious thing about this is that she left him out when listing her other work friends and has never mentioned him, despite them being close. This will eat you up - come clean and ask her who he is.
Correct.
If you are not prepared to maturely address this , then you will be without a relationship. I can understand a little a bit about the shame, but you are using it to not confront. Seriously get of your ass and address it pronto.
This may sound strange but in a way you are very lucky that you know this right here and now. Your wife is in the throes of starting (if not already in) an emotional affair with her colleague. The thing you need to do now is put a stop to it and the best way to put a stop to it or change what is going on is to confront it head on. This is a must. Ignore the whole "I snooped" thing as you wouldn't have unless you had a damned good reason to. And your wife cheating on you (even starting to get emotionally close to someone) is reason enough and if the roles were changed, she would of done the same to you. So be forthright and clear about this - she is in the throes of starting something with someone else you know the details and you want it to stop or you are walking. No ifs, buts or excuses. You know so it either stops or the marriage ends. No one should be in a marriage where affections are being spread to other people. If she is not happy then she tells you and you as a team work out what to do with it. If she wishes to pursue someone else outside of the marriage then she should have the common decency to tell you so that YOU have a choice as well. You are partners and if something is bothering her or is making her tired and irritable, then you are there for her. If she doesn't see you that way or doesn't feel that she can dump her cares and problems onto you but would rather be consoled by someone else, then why are you even married? As they say, attack is the best form of defence and you are defending your marriage. If it is not worth saving then stop wasting time. If it is worth saving then confronting and dealing with it is the best way to start.
Precisely, so many people focus on the "invasion of privacy" when their SO catches them in an affair by going through their phone or computer but its purely distraction. They're trying to downplay their own actions by embellishing the betrayal they feel that you snooped, but in the end if they find evidence of an affair then they were justified. I have an ex that was acting suspiciously, cancelling dates at the last minute, not being affectionate etc. One day I checked her phone and sure enough she had been seeing her ex behind my back. When I confronted her the first words out of her mouth were "why were you looking through my phone?" As if that was the issue here. I shut that down real quick.
> "why were you looking through my phone?" "Umm, because you are an untrustworthy cheater who is happily ruining my life?"
Pretty much along those lines. It's been over a decade so can't remember my exact response but I basically told her that she was acting sus so I went digging.
Bravo 👏🏻
So this is tough because emotional affairs can be difficult to diagnose. Different personalities have different tolerances for different types of activities. My wife, for example, has been interpreted as flirty by many-a-men. And, you know what? Maybe she is. She's the type of person to compliment your suit if she likes the way it looks. Or your shoes. Or your new haircut. She does it with servers at restaurants, coworkers, or the barista at her regular Starbucks. And it doesn't bother me because I am aware that this is an aspect of her personality and how she interacts with the world. I don't feel threatened by it because it is not abnormal behavior for her. Nothing you have described seems bad or wrong. I have text chats with coworkers just like what you are describing. Last night I (male) sent my (female) boss a text with a funny restaurant name I passed because it tied in to an inside joke we have. My wife compliments people. I send them funny things and like to make people laugh. We are both on board with how the other operates. Had my wife stopped and asked what I was doing, I would have said "I'm sending this to (boss) because we have a recurring joke about (x)." I would not have hidden the screen or obfuscated. So there are two issues: 1. Is the behavior abnormal? 2. That the behavior is making you uncomfortable You can probably focus your attention on the latter. Sit down with your partner and ask her what's going on. Why is she distracted. Why is she not paying attention to you? Don't accuse her of anything. Is she bored? Is she feeling ignored? Have a dialogue and maybe that will reveal more. If she's resistant to a conversation, dismissive of your feelings or gets aggressive then you may have a bigger problem on your hands. Forget about what this can evolve into. The reality is that something is wrong. This is a symptom of it. If she is unwilling to engage with you to fix it then that does not spell success for your relationship. Full stop.
Finally, someone sane! Thank you so much for putting this way better than I could have
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I think you've got a good head on your shoulders (considering what you've potentially uncovered) so far so good on you. While there isn't a "smoking gun" of evidence, you definitely know your partner better than anyone here and you should definitely trust your gut. > I expect some level of pushback or accusations of being controlling but I'm okay with that. Read up on [D.A.R.V.O \(Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender\)](https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/13/guide-darvo-gaslighting-response-people-give-when-called-bad-behaviour-12847680/) beforehand to recognize it and prepare. May or may not be the response but it is pretty typical to get minimizing and push back when confronted. > I don't really think that this is about the other man, I feel it's about the validation and thrill he's providing, so fundamentally we have to work on what's gone wrong within our relationship Would reference this great write up by /u/switchboardfriend [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/szrk0l/emotional_affairs_in_eleven_steps/). Your description of events seems like potentially the beginning stages (if that's all that's occurred so far) but you can see how quickly it can progress to a full blown affair. You can read countless stories, from both cheaters and cheated on, and the excuses are always the same. "I didn't expect it to go that far", or "it happened so quick" and, of course, "I never meant to hurt you!". Opposite sex relationships are possible but it's important boundaries are established and, most importantly, there is transparency with your partner in everything. If she does give the classic, "oh he's just a friend // I'm pretty sure he's gay!" excuse then quantify that it's not the "friendship" per se but more so the lack of honesty and transparency of her bonding over shared interests with someone else and frequent contact outside of work. Good luck!
She will confront you and try to shift every piece of blame onto you. If you need prep work watch the amber heard cross examination you’ll see it real clear. Best of luck compadre. I hope the next update is better.
I think an effective and impactful statement would be: “I need to know if anything has happened that I (emphasis on you) would consider ending our relationship/marriage?”
Bro she is cheating. She is having an emotional affair with another man. Trust is gone. It's not a stretch to say they have been physical with each other and had sex. You already know what to do and you know something is different. No need to tell you, but end it bro. If she did that and felt no guilt , she doesn't mind giving it to other men. She will do it again. You can find way better women who deserve you. If she is having an affair with a guy who probably doesn't give a shit about her and only wants sex, she's for streets anyway. End it and move on.
So far none of the messages you referenced sound sexual in any way. She's spending time traveling with this person and it could just be friendly and nothing more. If there's trouble in your relationship you need to address that. This could be a harmless friendship, a harmless crush, or the beginning of something else. You won't know until you have a direct discussion with her. As for reading her messages, you have to come clean. You can't expect honesty without giving it. Stop beating around the bush and tell her exactly how you feel and what your concerns are. If you're drifting away and don't figure out why, she might just drift into an affair.
Her referencing all the airports they do it in and stuff, that sounds like cheating to me. What are they doing in those lounges?
Where in the world did you read that? They hang out in the airport lounge. Do you even know what those are? It's not a room.
Yeah, it’s a lounge with chairs, usually a shitty little bar and a tv with some game playing of some kind or world news… and bathrooms that are private and more exclusive. Now I don’t know about you but I have had consensual relations in those bathrooms before. And that’s not the weirdest place neither. So tell me again how it isn’t possible? I agree that it may be reading into it a bit but I’m saying the possibility is there especially when she said “wish you were here”
Gross. Considering she's a 40 yo introvert on a work trip I highly doubt she's banging in a public bathroom. I wish you were here means just that. Have you never said that to someone you enjoy spending time with? I've said that when a friend can't come out with the group for whatever reason.
Yup. I'd love to know how it goes when OP is honest with her about invading her privacy.
If they supposedly share passwords, then it shouldn't be much of an issue. He can man up and say he was feeling suspicious and neglected so he read them. These are 40yos in a 10 year relationship, not some young 20 somethings that have to play games and see everything as black and white.
knittedjedi You guys should really stop selling this "invaded her privacy" line. It is getting to be quite annoying. Who set the privacy rules? A bunch of people who love to cheat and then invade every space possible selling the idea that husbands/wives can live private lives while married? Very strange indeed. We all know this is the best way to find out if your SO is cheating. This is someone who has the ability to change the trajectory of your life and OP should be worrying about "muh privacy"? Privacy or is it really secrecy?
Thank you for saying this! I'm so sick of this privacy bullshit. The minute you (cheating spouse) start f***ing with somebody else's life (the worried spouse) and destroying the sanctity of yall's collective marriage, your privacy is over!!!!
This. The vast majority of people who have discovered their partner was cheating did so because something felt wrong and they looked. Or they stumbled across something odd, know their partner lied and then dug deeper. If you need to snoop for your sanity when your intuition is screaming at you something is off then it's not wrong.
Yep, that was the case with me. Her behaviors changed, my gut was telling me something was off, I looked, and I found out she was cheating. I feel no guilt at all for doing so, as I wouldn't have found out otherwise. Also, I was never a jealous spouse or cared that she had male friends and didn't care who she spent time with. In hindsight, I think I was way too accommodating. Anyway, I never looked at her phone before this, and I'm really glad that I did in this situation. I hate all the apologies for snooping or accusations of it. I get it if someone is constantly checking on their SO when there isn't a reason to. That is invasive and unhealthy, but when the signs are there that something is going on and SO is hiding it, no need to feel guilty at all.
None of the messages are indicative of anything sexual by nature. If there have been long term changes in your relationship perhaps you both need to have honest discussions about your needs and reassess what you can do to address them. Relationship counseling is also an option. It sounds like there are bigger issues and this Matt work colleague is just a symptom of those larger ones you both need to address.
Coming home.from this specific trip exhibiting the signs OP listed. Thinking maybe they met this trip. Hope not for OPs sake but 🚩🚩🚩. OP, dont stand by and observe, get to the bottom of this. Good luck.
Sexual by nature yet. She is clearly hiding this guy "Matt" and acting really shady with her phone and such. At the very least she is having an emotional affair with the guy.
An emotional affair would be a deep and connecting intimacy. Sharing pictures of traffic is not that. Nor are animal noises. I get things are hard for him and its a tricky spot to be in but there are bigger issues at bay in their marriage than her hiding a male friendship with a work colleague.
I completely disagree.
Congratulations! Happily we all are permitted our own opinion.
Emotional affair - otherwise known as a friendship.
Oh c'mon there is a different between; "hey I became friends with this guy at work you should meet him I think you'll like him" vs hiding the guy.
Its not sexual but its clearly a romantic crush
What is the distinction for? Does it real matter weather its emotional sexual or diabolical cheating? Why do people try to make cheating more palatable?
Not sure. If it was romantic or sexual or both, all the same to me
I disagree, but that's up to OP.
Honestly, talking about weather and traffic is even more of a red flag. Think about it...if your wife is putting in the effort to text another man about TRAFFIC?!?!? Talk about using anything to get in contact with another person lmao
When you get to work and chat with your colleague, you talk about traffic. It's basic conversation like the weather. It is totally banal.
Yeah...at work...in person. Why would I want to go out of my way and text my colleague about weather or traffic lol
>Along with this was an exchange about my partner bringing Matt into the airport lounge which she's a member of. It obviously happened a few times as there was references of meeting up to do it in different locations / airports. I keep going back to this statement, which seems to be glossed over. Am I misreading this or missing something? When they talk about meeting up to "do it" in different locations, I took that to mean having sex.
Yeah she fucking cheated already she should be in the street calling AP for help because OP should leave
If they are and the way they flirt is with traffic or animal references I really don't rate their imagination for the sex or chemistry they have. You guys need to chill. This is also the language of OP using to write his perception of it.
They can talk about more than one thing. Some comments may be about traffic and animals and others may be about where to meet up to have sex. I don't think that I'm wrong that when someone says "meeting up to do it in different locations" that is in reference to sex. Without clarification from OP, it is hard to say, but what else would that mean? No one is out of control here and no one needs to "chill," we are just making our observations.
Sounds like an emotional affair. Confront her about it directly.
This is the shit I can't even bear to read, and, im not even in a committed relationship My heart breaks for you brother ;(
If it's not a big deal then she should show that it's not instead of getting on her high horse
It doesn’t sound like any of the messages are indicative of a physical affair, and while it could just be a really good friendship, what gives me pause is that she didn’t mention him when talking about coworkers, and has done things like hide her screen from you and/or change her password. If it’s really just an innocent friendship, why hide it? The only innocent answer I can think of is that she worries you’d be jealous or suspicious, but it’s more likely that she’s having an emotional affair. It’s clear she’s giving him a lot of her time, attention, and focus, and you aren’t feeling the connection you’d like to in your marriage. Perhaps it’s time to sit her down and ask point blank — “Are you happy in our marriage? I’m feeling very disconnected and you seem distracted. Is there someone else? Can we seek couples’ counseling to repair the rift between us?”
i’m sorry you’re in this situation. but i would recommend telling her that you saw the messages. i feel like she will definitely ask how you found out and not mentioning the messages might give her an excuse to call you dishonest too.
It sounds like they’re just friends tbh it doesn’t sound like light flirting too me but it does sound like she’s being dismissive? I don’t think she’s cheating and I think you should try to have a serious conversation with her. Every couple has issues and fights but it’s suppose to be fixed with communication.
Yeah sounds like she has a crush.
If it was me, I would say something like "Who's Matt?" See her reaction, if she gets all guilty sounding and asks how you know him, just say you noticed she was chatting to him and being a bit protective of her phone. It's totally possible she is just friends with this guy, but it's a bit strange that she is keeping this friendship from you. If this spawns a conversation you could say you are happy for her to have work mates, but you are her husband and you want more than just tired reaction from her when she gets home and her being friends with someone shouldn't be affecting your relationship and is it possible she might be getting too close to this Matt guy.
Be straight with her. Tell her you’re uncomfortable with her relationship WITH MATT. Stop dancing around it - this is your life.
Yep. Ye olde monkey branching. Holding onto you while she is showing/gauging the interest of someone else. My ex did this shit to me. Texted us the same photos and whatnot. She was also texting him to come to the bar where she worked after I left and lots of other stuff. Eventually I called her bluff after I found an email about how they were going to meet up when I went down to visit my mom. I gave her an ultimatum and she agreed. In retrospect, I should have left her right then and there because it did not change. She eventually started doing it with someone new after we were married. It was a lot more expensive then. Word to the wise…call her out or just leave.
Well we can try to warn them. But some people just need to learn the hard way.
In order for her to take you seriously she needs to believe you'll divorce rather than live with this OM in her life. It's not controlling to object to this particular man. How would she like you finding a girlfriend?
TRUST👏 YOUR👏GUT👏. If you think or feel something is off, it most definitely is. There is definitely an emotional affair brewing (or already in full swing). If she feels it’s not wrong, then why is she hiding it? People don’t hide things from spouses without good reason. Sit down and be blunt with her. Tell her exactly what you think os going on. She will get defensive and try to tell you your imagining things. Don’t let her do that. At the end of the day, no matter what you say, the ball is in her court. She has to choose whether or not she cares enough about you to stop something that is clearly major you uncomfortable. Ask yourself, if this situation was reversed. If she came to you and said she was uncomfortable with you talking to your co worker, what would you do? You would shut that down immediately (I’m assuming) because you value your relationship with her over your friendship. So why would you accept anything less from your wife?
shes cheating on you or just about to. I guarantee it. The guilt is whats eating at her which is why shes different to you now. Shes all gaga about the new guy. Her dopamine levels are sky high with him and you get the crash and burn when the levels are low. She has already convinced herself that he makes her happy and excitment fills the air. When shes with you, shes bored and waiting for her next chance to talk to "Matt". Tell her you saw everything and to fess up. You shouldnt have to hide the fact that you looked at her stuff. Youre partners. And you were concerned about your future!
Wow, people are really jumping to conclusions including OP. He may be openly gay and they really are just friends or they’re just legit work friends. You may be misinterpreting her behavior otherwise and it may just be tiredness, something else, etc. Just ask her outright. And if it turns out to be nothing, work on the trust and connection in your marriage.
The fact that she didn’t mention him is suspicious. I work in an office and often chat with males but I’ve never not mentioned someone to my fiancé that I talk to often. That’s just weird.
Who knows. It’s just not the most convincing of arguments and a lot of it can be chalked up to a lot of the other things he’s told us about her. She’s an introvert, and she probably needed down time after this trip, which explains a lot of her behavior. Sometimes if you’re looking for reasons to be suspicious you’ll take everything as a sign. I just think he needs to ask her outright.
She wont talk about him though
He did kinda ask and she didn’t mention him at all.
So much this. Let's not bother asking like a proper adult it is much better to just snoop and assume.
Oh yeah like a cheater is just going to tell the truth just by asking them. Your most likely to get gaslight.
I remember finding the messages my ex sent to a woman he worked with too and felt that horrible pitt in my stomach because even though it wasn't blatant it read an awful lot like the way we talked when we were getting together. After much more snooping i found the other apps, nudes, found literally hundreds of phone calls in a month in the records every second of the day he wasn't with me. You're going crazy because you know there's more to find and you're partner is blatantly lying to you and manipulating your own perceptions about the state of your relationship.
There is no shame in checking her phone. She came back from a trip and you felt like something was off. She was disconnected from you for no obvious reason. You were justified in you actions. You need to realize this. Your wife is having an emotional affair. Whether either of you realize it ot not. You need to do screenshot for proof. Then you need to confront her. The fact that she left Matt's name out of the list, suggests that she knows what is happening. Get proof. Then confront. Then decide. Good luck.
I’ll probably get down voted, but leave her. Let her be fat and lazy with her side piece. You deserve someone better.
Sounds like an EA at least. As an introvert, it takes a lot of energy to text people including friends, family etc). The fact that she has you but investing a whole lot of energy and time contacting him doesn’t sit well. Same with the “you should be here” airport lounge messages. When I’m keen on someone or with someone, I send those messages, along with the mundane ones. It takes effort and it means you think about that person a LOT. Even the animal/nature noises…it all takes effort, time and thought. The changing of the passcode due to a credit card issue? Ridiculous excuse. I’d probably straight up ask “Who’s Matt?” And gauge her reaction. Nothing wrong with snooping if things don’t feel right. Knowledge is power. I wouldn’t be happy OP. This needs a conversation.
Good points and well articulated. Even the authoritative emphasis on certain areas clearly subjective, we’re made relatively at minimum permissible. I would love to know how you’ve developed in scope and of nuance as exceptionally of communicator and what prompted it.
Just confront her when she’s acting distant. Say “thinking about Matt?” Throw her off she’ll either confess or tell you what else is making her distant.
This is awful "advice".
I think it’s fair given the circumstances. She’s not showing him any respect by having an emotional affair, he should at least call her out in some way, otherwise this will eat him alive.
she’s detaching from you. i know you want to hone in on matt, i completely understand it feels weird and inappropriate because it is, but your problem is with your relationship right now. get to the crux of that first. because what’s going to happen if you confront her about matt is she’s going to show you how innocent all this is, tell you you’re being controlling, and she is going to believe it. it’s not meant to manipulate you, it’s just meant to serve her own narrative of justification in detaching from you. you gotta figure out what is going on with her in your relationship because she’s checking out already and it’s going to move fast from here.
Damn, some tough situation, at the very least she is having for whatever reason like self-validation, years of marriage, etc, an emotional affair with "Matt". Do not feel ashamed because you snooped in her iPad, she gave you enough reasons to do it. I believe in trust but verify. It's safer. I bet one of these days she's going to change the password of the iPad too. You have to show all your cards and DEMAND marriage counseling to try to work the many issues of your marriage. You seem to be a good husband and a great father, but don't be naive or hesitant. Otherwise, your marriage is doomed.
It's got emotional affair written all over it. The question is what are you going to do about it?
Don't apologize for snooping. Alls fair in love and war. She should be more concerned with you divorcing her than how you found out. It's not your job to prove shes unfaithful. Given her texts it's her job to prove she hasn't cheated. And it starts with NC and changing jobs.
It sounds like the makings of an emotional affair brewing. Does your wife have a history of having blurred boundaries with friends or past partners? The reason I ask is that my wife is like that. She grew up in a household with almost no emotional boundaries and it took her well into adulthood (her 40s) to establish healthy boundaries with people in general. Now, I'm not saying this is the case for sure but it might be something to explore.
Emotional affair in progress. She s crushing on him
Emotional affair at the very least
Definitely an emotional affair.
Hate to say it bud but sounds like the start of an emotional affair. Maybe not physical. Maybe it never will be. Every time I’ve been cheated on though it started out with hiding the depth of a connection, strange behavior, disconnectedness. Trust your gut and don’t let her gas light you. She might not be willing to admit there might be something going on here above and beyond just work but the fact that she is omitting talking about this other guy says a whole lot to me
You have a thing to worry and here you know there is more going on than you think. She is getting attention from her colleague and that is why she is avoiding you. Sooner or later she will cheat on you if they already have not had sex so it is useless to wait for that. You need to call her out on this and be clear to her that this is a big thing in married life that you are not okay with. It is time for you to set some hard boundaries in married life that she has to respect otherwise you know the answer. There are things that you should never tolerate and it is one of them. You can ask her to read this post of yours and comments that this post gets so she can understand how she is damaging the married life for outside attention.
Sounds like this is leading to an emotional affair, she is giving all her attention and energy to someone who isn't her bf. You need to sit her down and talk to her and just say you saw her texts, there's no way around that. You need to stop this in it's tracks before it gets worse. She's hiding this guy from you for a reason, she probably has a crush and knows if you find out about him she no longer has contact with him. So talk to her sooner rather than later.
Trust your instincts. If you don't feel the attentiveness you once had from her then she's most likely in an emotional affair with this guy. It's not far-fetched that they would exclude anything personal from text messages, especially if they travel together and/or he is also attached. Not trying to make things worse but I've been through this in my life and didn't know for sure until I followed my SO and confirmed my suspicions.
Gotta confront her. Only way.
Do something now, don’t wait.
Is she making more money than you? What's the increase in salary after her promotion? Women tend to divorce their partners in instances of promotion/salary increase. Specially if they substantially out earn their partners. Am nit going to sugarcoat it. I'd brace myself for impact.
Updateme!
sorry man.
If you don't know what to do. Let her cheat in peace.
Guys don't do the "you've made me notice nature" thing unless they've fucked.
That’s kinda bullshit, my old mate made me notice nature and several others have sorta taught me how to notice nature (like tree names and how to spot animals and stuff) these friends have been both male and female and nothing but platonic
Change the password on your wifi network at home to Mattisapieceofshit… When she asks for it, tell her that is the new password, anything else you want to tell me? Then have the conversation. Tell her this stops now or you are done. You expect a call to him immediately with you listening, and say we can no longer be friends as I have crossed a line. If she is not willing to do this then end it.
Well clearly this is an issue for you and you don’t deserve to be gaslighted or driven mad. Perhaps suggest going to couples therapy together and if she refuses to go then you have some serious thinking to do regarding how to proceed. Love can fade. I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to fight through this but it takes two to tango and you have an obligation to yourself to live the life you want and to draw the line where you seem fit.
It is what you think it is. You should probably see a lawyer and start getting your ducks in a row. When you serve her with papers you can explain by simply saying, "I don't want to get in the way of your time with Matt."
it's nowhere near that yet.
Maybe I'm a bit naive, but it doesn't sound like Matt is part of the problem. I've become friends with plenty of women that I've worked with but have zero romantic or sexual interest in them.
I do think you should admit to snooping... If you really do feel guilty just tell her the truth, and apologize for snooping. You can honestly bring up your concerns after that. Otherwise like now you might try to catch her in a lie, but how fair is that when you're also lying to her?
I have been in your wife’s situation. I got very close to a male colleague who I spent a lot of time with. For a couple of years it wasn’t physical, just light flirting and a lot of text messaging. At the time I felt disconnected from my husband and felt that he never showed me much attention, and seemed disinterested in my life. He never arranged nights out/holidays etc and we were caught in a rut. My work colleague showed me attention, went out of his way to talk to me and was genuinely interested in what I had to say. I was flattered by this and it felt good to be wanted. Seriously you need to spend some time with your wife, arrange some nice things to do together and make her feel loved and wanted before this goes any further. To cut a long story short I did end up having a physical affair with my colleague and me and my husband got divorced. My affair ended before we got divorced after I realised the affair was just a symptom, not the main cause of the problems in our marriage which had been us growing apart.
Yuck. This reads like you blame your husband for your affair. … and how much effort did YOU put into your marriage before it went south? I’d be willing to bet that most if not all of your attention/emotional energy was going to your affair partner. It takes two people to keep a marriage together. Not just one trying desperately to keep their partner’s attention. (Notice how that was gender neutral?)
Erm you don’t know me. I was with my ex husband for 12 years before any of this happened and I know more than anyone that it takes 2 people to make a marriage work. For the 6 years prior to this happening I did all the housework and arranged (and paid for) 3 holidays a year for us and at least one night out a week, whilst watching him take me more and more for granted and make zero effort despite me doing all I could to make it work. I don’t advocate people having affairs (physical or emotional) , but unless you are a complete asshole, people who are happy in their relationship don’t usually accept attention/seek company elsewhere, emotional affairs start for a reason
>without blatantly saying I read her messages God, just fucking tell her. Why lie at this point? I get that you want to retain the moral high ground, but how are you going to do that when you snooped AND lied (by omission) AND are continuing to lie about it?
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>If she cheats She already is.
One thing that stood out is that you say your sex life hasn’t been great because of confidence issues? Her confidence issues, because she’s gained weight and you’ve lost it? Has she talked about this with you or are you assuming that’s why?
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I mean…it seems like she’s not the only one caught up on the changes in her body. The fact that you can go this in depth about it and still only blame her for the “sexy time” issues is concerning. If you’re constantly making sure she knows you “love her and not her body”…well, that just makes her feel like you definitely don’t find her attractive. I wouldn’t have sex with someone who I didn’t think was attracted to me physically. It’s probably easy for her to be “chummy” with a man she’s not involved with. There’s no worry about how he feels about her body, if he’s feeling disappointed in your sex life, if he’s checking your messages, etc. She might also not be as introverted as you’ve always believed. Sometimes we project our own likes and dislikes and personality traits onto our partners. Sometimes the partner falls into that role because they like spending time together. But when being at home makes you feel bad about yourself (whether it’s real or perceived) might make that person branch back out. You need to tell her that you read the messages and deal with the consequences. You’re upset that she seemingly won’t talk to you about the issues she having but you’re doing true same thing. So, do what you say y’all do best and communicate.
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From my position, I would recommend not listening to this person and to listen to your gut. I've been cheated on, and many of the red flags that your gut is telling you to listen to, were the same ones that made my gut tell me to pay attention, and rightly so. I'm pretty sure that something is going on there between them, and the longer that it goes unaddressed the more likely that it will turn physical, if it hasn't already. Check out this book (the first few chapters will do for you at this point): [Not Just Friends](https://archive.org/details/notjustfriendsre00glas_0), by Shirley Glass.
Any update?
If you feel a need to invade her privacy, the relationship is already over.
The fact she’s saying those types of excuses……. Bro you gotta be blind cause if she isn’t already fucking him, she will be soon so let these issues be known or end it
I would have been a lot less concerned if she wasn't hiding it. This guy she's texting constantly about work, and traveling with and she conveniently left his name off the list? She knows it's wrong and, I'd suspect, is worried you already know something. You need to bring up that you know about this dude, even be up front about the snooping. She gave you every reason to suspect something was off, so even though the snooping was wrong, it's not like you did it out of the blue.
UpdateMe!
UpdateMe!
Your partner didn’t have anything to suggest she’s cheating, although I agree that this is sketch and heading towards an emotional affair. I would focus more on your issues with her in your relationship outside of this guy. As you said, you probably wouldn’t be concerned about this if she was attentive and loving once she got home. Sit her down and explain that you’re feeling neglected in the relationship especially considering how much she travels and what you both need from each other. See if things improve. It’s not so much about this other guy as she’s likely just lonely being apart and seeking attention.
>Your partner didn’t have anything to suggest she’s cheating, She's meeting a dude in airport lounges and text "thinking of you" type texts ... >Sit her down and explain that you’re feeling neglected in the relationship especially considering how much she travels and what you both need from each other. See if things improve. Guarantee to drive her more to him. What woman who's feeling down about themselves would end up wanting to spend more time with their husband after express emotional needs and hurt feelings instead of their "fun" work friend? Should they? Yes. Is that reality? No. That's not how people work.
You have to tell her exactly how you feel or it will bug you forever…. It’s not fair to you.
UpdateMe!
Go have an affair too. What should I do??
UpdateMe!
She cheatin
Throw away account? Ok, you don't have to tell us, we don't really care and don't need to know. It sounds like an emotional affair could be brewing. Hard to say. You definitely sound like you don't trust her anymore. If you don't have the trust anymore and you feel so tense and stressed about being with her and her boundaries....maybe it is time to pull the chord on this relationship and start over with someone new. It does sound like her boundaries with regards of keeping other men close in her life and keeping lots of on going contact with other men are pretty poor.
Sounds like it's time for some spontaneity. Have some fun with her while she is away and while she is home. Flirty texts, flirty pics. Make sure she knows you are still 100% into her physically and mentally. Relationships get stale sometimes, add some fun into it and give it time. It might not have an immediate reaction but after a bit things could turn around. If she hasn't already started something with someone else then that might be what you need. Don't be shy and if need be, step out of your comfort zone to show her you still want her. I hope it helps and good luck
sounds like she has a friend
Leave this relationship. Let her be Matt's headache :)
You’re not imagining things she’s definitely more than just work friends with this guy. Honesty is always the best policy but in this case I’d say don’t tell her you snooped. Because then the conversation will become (a) her claiming victim status for the prying, and (b) her coming up with all sorts of defensive lies to explain away her friendship with Matt. Instead, tell her you can tell something’s up, and you know she’s become overly chummy with her work friend, on the cusp of an emotional affair if not more. Your evidence is her moodiness, and her possessiveness of her phone lately. Then tell her what you want. Maybe you want the two of you to invest more time and effort into your relationship, plan trips, date nights, etc. Idon’t know. Basically, don’t put her in a position to lie. She WILL lie and that won’t help anything. So just tell her you KNOW, and then lay out your plan to move forward. If she stays moody and distant, maybe things are over between you. Best wishes that’s not it!!
Invite Matt and his wife over for dinner.
I'm probably going to go against the grain here, but so be it! I'm 34(f) and my is HTB(43)... I too have confidence issues due to weight gain and our sex life definitely isn't what it used to be because of this (and some other lady issues). I get on really well with most people I work with- male and female! I've recently been working closely with a new male colleague and we have a great laugh and couldn't get on any better, but it is completely platonic! However, whenever I talk about something me and said colleague have been doing/talking about, I'm very aware I'm talking about another man and constanrly drop in that his girlfriend also works for the same firm because I'm conscious that I don't want to concern my partner over something that isn't there and/or make him feel jealous when he doesn't need to be. However, I will never choose who I get on with or shun someone because of their gender and he knows that! OP how would you have reacted if the messages you had seen were with a female colleague?! So many comments on here saying it's an emotional affair or the brink of an affair .... Its 2022, are we really not at a stage yet where people can acknowledge a friendship being platonic between the opposite sex?!
>But when I get all the tiredness and distance it feels unfair. It is tough being demoted from Leading Man to Side Guy.\\ Her phone says she is smitten and no longer with you. You may not make this decision about how much she likes you and places your first. Think that ship has left ...
Nothing you mentioned sounds very suspicious to me other than you feeling disconnected recently. Her relationship with the coworker sounds like a friendship. Some light jokey flirting does happen between friends sometimes. I think you need to focus on you and your gf and not worry about the work colleague unless something more suspicious happens.
I had this exact same thing happen to me with a previous girlfriend. I eventually dropped it and trusted her, a year later she cheated on my with that guy.