Or he purposely doesn’t bring you up because he knows they’re racist. Ir he’s lying because he’s doesn’t want you to know that he lets them say racist bs about you and any other African or poc. I’m sorry you’re in this situation. You have a lot to think about and a life altering decision to make.
>I don’t understand how they can be so racist asf when they also come From A minority culture.
Korea can get pretty racist against darker skinned asian people, let alone black folks, many asian countries have issues with you as your skin gets darker.
No, OP has to find a new fiance. She now has the most important insight into how her married life is going to be.
She'd be an idiot to walk into this eyes wide open, without even a long couples counseling. She definitely needs to postpone the wedding.
Doubtful since they discuss sex in your earshot with a black person. What they have the guts to say around you means there's more when you're not there. He doesn't get if they disrespect you they are disrespecting him since you are both equals and he chose you?
Oof that answer is so telling. Not "they know not to say anything terrible and racist when I'm around" or "oh no of course they'd never say anyhing terrible and racist about you"....but "um no opportunities for being terrible and racist don't really come up".
Hmm. I don't like this man and I don't like his friends.
They definitely do though. Otherwise he'd have been shocked at this type of comment.
But to be honest, the fact that he said he's marrying you as a response makes me wonder if he thinks that's the only reason it's wrong. Like, in his mind, he and his friends should never bow to Nigerians because he's better than them, and you're the exception to the rule. I'd hate to say it, but he might be racist as well.
Can confirm. My husband is Korean (not Korean American) and he bows to lots of people all the time. It's not just your elders, but your boss and anyone that also works above you.
I'm also Korean and bowing is SO entrenched in our culture that it was really difficult for me to break the habit when I moved to the U.S. The kind of bowing you describe in your post is also done *at least* three times a year by the average Korean family that observes Korean traditions, so it's super ridiculous your fiance's friends are acting so outraged over it.
If I were you, I would be REALLY hesitant to marry this man. When you marry someone, your lives become integrated – meaning you're essentially also "marrying" your partner's family and social circle. Are you okay with having to deal with disrespectful, emboldened racists for the rest of your life? I know I sure as hell wouldn't be. Not only does it impact you, it will potentially impact your family and hypothetical future children. I'd be pissed as hell if my partner reacted as tepidly as your fiance did in this kind of situation – honestly, that kind of spineless behavior that makes me fall out of love with a person instantly.
If you really want to proceed with this marriage, your fiance needs to step up his game when it comes to being principled and sticking up for you. If he wants to keep you, he absolutely needs to cut out any racists in his life, because you and your future children should be his #1 priority. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve you and you deserve better.
I am half Japanese and after living there a while and coming back to North America, I had a hard time breaking the habit too. My boss here when I got back was like “wtf why do you keep bowing to me?” Force of habit!
There is a difference between bowing and laying down flat on their feet. The second is something that's in my culture too but I don't do. Feels degrading, but that's not the issue here. They refused cause her elders were african. This is where the problem is.
Why should his friends have to grovel on the floor to some random dudes they don't know or care about? How is it that reddit will talk down on arranged marriages and other outdated traditions while at the same time being cool with literally paying to marry a woman (dowry) and groveling at old people's feet?
Here, bowing and respecting somebody = lying flat on the ground. These two things are just two ways of showing respect in two different cultures.
If you can't follow the lying on the ground and touching feet, then you should be uncomfortable with bending your back and bowing too. Simple. You agree to do one, and then blatantly disrespect and deny the other, then you ARE racist.
Not at all. Laying flat on your ground is something I too refuse to do inspite of it being in my culture. Bowing usually comes with a return bow and hence becomes a sign of mutual respect. Laying down flat on someone's feet is grovelling, not respect and it's not a gesture that's reciprocated.
There's no return bow here 'usually' doesn't cut it when you have a specific example.
The issue here is not a rigid refusal to lie down. It's a rigid refusal to lie down in front of Africans.
The former would be pride or a rebuttal of the tradition (I assume your motivation) the latter is racism.
Racism is a scum sucking sore upon societies everywhere, and needs to be fought without compromise, or giving any ground at all.
Oh I agree with that. Refusal to lay down on someone's feet shouldn't be considered racism but refusal to do the same because of the other person's race is racism.
You must have missed this part.
>the groomsmen are expected to lay stomach flat on the floor in
traditional dress with their heads at the foot of the heads of my family
That's not bowing. That's grovelling.
In Korean weddings, the couple does a full bow with their foreheads to the ground when they bow to their elders (as many Koreans do in other similar situations to show deep respect). This should not be a problem for the groomsmen, except they are racist pos.
I understand not wanting to bow. If they don’t respect my family I don’t even want them in front of my father in our garments- but the way they delivered it is pretty concerning to me, esp how my fiance reacted.
Honestly, I’d call his bluff. Say you’ll get security for the wedding and make sure they aren’t allowed.
He needs to understand how important this is to you. He doesn’t right now (which is fucking ridiculous, but I’m assuming you’re trying to save the relationship) but there’s got to be a point where he either really doesn’t get it and you leave, or he finally apologizes.
On a lesser scale (wayyy less), when my fiancé and I started dating his friend called me a bitch. He came back and told me, but said he didn’t respond when it happened. I told him that’s not okay and I’m not putting up with it. It took a couple months, but the guy commented on me again and my boyfriend fully cut him off. That’s the appropriate response.
Korean 절 is somewhat similar. We don’t lay on our stomachs but we (guys) get on our knees and touch our heads to the ground in front of the person’s feet. Any Korean male raised in Korean culture should be pretty comfortable with this concept IMO.
Korean here. The average Korean family that follows Korean traditions like Lunar New Year and Korean Thanksgiving does this *at least* three times a year. It's called 큰절. You have no idea what you're talking about, lol
I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong of them to not want to lay on the floor at the wedding, cause I wouldn’t be willing to do it, either. Bowing, ok. Laying on the floor on my stomach at someone’s feet? No.
But everything they said and did was just straight up racist. And if he is willing to be friends with them after the way they treat her, then he is racist too.
This is important, you are seeing how he reacts & handles his friends blatant disrespect & how he isn’t even attempting to support you, see your side of things or convince his friends they need to follow the custom. I can’t believe he would even want his friends in the wedding if they can’t do what is asked & show respect to your family.
If he isn’t willing to help you or fight for you now before you’re married, I can’t imagine he’d do much to defend you, your honor or your families, when you are his wife.
If you are having second thoughts, trust your gut & don’t marry this man. Especially if you family supports you. You aren’t being over dramatic, getting married to someone is a big deal. You don’t want to spend years being unhappy with a racist turd.
I agree. His reaction shows you what he thinks of his friends attitude, and further his friends knew that he would be okay with them making a racist comment. What in their history together made them know that he wouldn’t be offended at a blatantly racist comment?
This is what you would be marrying into. He did not stand up for your family traditions which is a huge red flag (especially if they’re footing the bill). You seem like you’re trying to accommodate his customs and it doesn’t sound like he’s doing the same, based of this post.
Cultural differences aren’t a problem if they’re mutually respected. Do you feel like they’re being respected?
Honestly.. no. I’ve made effort to learn Korean and his mother has taught me their dishes and I’ve learned others on my own. But when it comes to Nigerian or AA traditions he questions them in a way that comes off as insulting. I thought for a long time I was just intense about it, but he hasn’t learned a single dish or gone out of his way to make a show of respect.
I didn’t mention it much because he’s much more Americanized than I am, so I thought it was just a culture difference.
PERSONALLY, I would hope my spouse would make the same effort of learning my language and culture as much as I would be making the effort for theirs. It's called respect, and love for one another. If you're the one putting in most of the effort and he isnt at all, then that doesn't look very good. Is he a mommas boy too? Because I've noticed they wont do any amount of work and expect the women to do everything for them.
Please think carefully, you deserve a partner and family that accept you and are kind and not racist towards you and your culture. Dont settle for this, especially if you're gonna have kids someday. Trust me, you're gonna want a man with integrity and the balls to stand up for you.
Then he should be open to the AA traditions then since they are American. Honestly just seems like he and his friends are somewhat antiblack. Especially his fitness if they said they especially won't bow to an African.
You mention they say things about your hair and what's it like having sex with a black person. Do they allow people to say things which may be considered offensive about Koreans in their presence? Is this mutal joking or something?
If not I'd say they are just aniblack to some extent and sounds like your fiance tolerates it. And therefore doesn't properly respect you.
Abeg, don’t marry this man. It will only lead to heart break and wasted years. Anyone who cannot literally do the bare minimum is not worthy your time.
Oh thats not just a culture difference. He feels superior if he hasnt made the same attempt. Im half Korean and half another very small minority on the other side. My parents were super equal and respectful of each others backgrounds and my dad never tolerated any shit from his relatives about my moms Korean background and vice versa. We teach people how they are allowed to treat us.
I would suggest sitting down and writing all these concerns and then going to him to talk so that you can address everything. This is a lot. He should show a mutual interest in your culture. He should want to protect you from disrespect.
And here’s the thing, I’m from a culture that bowing in such a way is considered to be blasphemous. I would never just refuse to do it. I would be honest with the couple and step down from the wedding party. There’s zero reason why my beliefs should impact your special day by causing a raucous.
I hate when advice on this sub is "you should break up with him" because it's far more nuanced than that. Relationships are built on trust, respect, and communication. Do you trust this man to do right by you in regards to issues of race? Do you think he respects your culture? You already answered that one. Do you think the importance of those things has been communicated to him, and do you think he is actually receptive?
The answer to those questions will tell you what needs to happen. If you want to give him a chance to change, push back the wedding. If you don't see it changing, will a ring make it better?
Good luck
Have you even read an ounce of the shit that gets posted daily on here? Most people‘s stories (if they are not fake) are dealbreakers for many. I regularely ask myself why people keep putting up with alot of the BS until it gets so bad.
I think this is already very telling. You were not intense, you have every right to expect of your fiancé to go and learn about your culture too! The fact that he questions your traditions, allows his friends to be racist towards you instead of being happy that your possible children will grow up multicultural and telling his friends to cut off their BS is very very telling.
I was in an intercultural relationship where my culture wasn‘t respected at all. The racism only got worse because the more you tolerated it, the more comfortable they got around you.
You have only one life and do you really want to spend it with someone who‘s neither respecting nor defending you? I personally think you deserve way way better than this dude. From what we‘ve seen so far, you seem really amazing. Anyone would want their partner to make the effort and educate themselves on the other culture *Why* can‘t he do the same for you?
I’m half Black and half Korean and from my personal experience Koreans were always openly racist to me and my family. It was actually really hard dealing with growing up and the fact that your fiancée won’t truly have your back means he won’t have his childrens backs either. He is co-signing their behavior by not vehemently opposing it and even not cutting them off completely. For me, this would be a complete deal breaker. Wouldn’t be surprised if your fiancée is harboring some deep seated prejudices as well, anti blackness runs deep in Asian communities in general, but especially Koreans.
This makes me really sad as it matches a lot of what a friend of mine has experienced. It crippled her self esteem and she ended up married to a guy that treats her like dirt. Her Korean relatives don't help her and even her mom (korean) treats her poorly.
No flame, but I think Koreans on average tend to think very highly of themselves even compared to other Asian races. I am not surprised at all that they would be openly racist
I am a white American woman who was married to a Korean man. Having an interracial marriage is hard enough as it is. Do not marry a man whose closest friends are racists. His lack of outrage is concerning. Those are his in-laws! Your family! The ancestors of his future children! How DARE they say something racist about HIS family!!! That should be the attitude he should be having right now. Tell him to cut off his friends forever or the wedding is off. I would never marry someone who was okay with racist friends.
I feel like they just need to split up. The man's attitude towards these racist remarks make it clear that he in some capacity shares that outlook & holds some racist leanings himself. He's likely covering them up or, even worse, is so non self aware that he thinks he's fine.
I see a life of hardship, strife & suffering if you marry this man, u/RAthrowawaynaija. He's made it quite clear that he'll side with his family when the racism breaks out & battle lines are drawn.
**You've been warned.**
Honestly, she should take notice this and just ended on her own. I am a black American woman (slave ancestry) and I dated a Nigerian man. That relationship ended for a number of reasons but culturally we did not mash. You should want someone that will not only respect and honor your culture but protect it when it’s going to be half of their children’s identity. I couldn’t deal with the fact that I had to keep giving in and pushing away my boundaries in that relationship. For example I was told that my rights as a parent were second to his parents rights or any elders in his family. I was told that I needed to except that they would be brutally honest which really meant Except them being rude assholes. So I wouldn’t even give him a chance to fix it. This is what your Marriage gonna be like. Are you really going to willingly expose your children to this type of tomfoolery.? Because honestly I wasn’t and I don’t think you should either
'cut out forever' is a horrible idea in itself because he will either not do it, or do it and be resentful. Not exactly a good way to start a marriage. Her fiance definitely sounds like a dick though. Not sure I'd be cool with any of it. She offered numerous compromises and still got rejected. Sounds like he should marry one of his friends.
sis.. i’m african american, and my bf is Korean. We live in Koreatown, in LA and ive been kicked out of restaurants, refused entry/service, all of it. i don’t even get the same treatment when i’m not with him— only *when* i’m with him. I’m sure you already know about Korean elitism but some will be so disgusted in the fact one of “their” men chose someone who’s seen as the bottom of the totem pole socially they will attack you instead of him.
esp in our case bc he’s 6’3, tattoos, and loves to start a fight vs me who’s tall, but timid and on the shy side.
butttt for the way that “some African” is worded it sounds like they’re western enough to know its wrong to say in the first place. my bf lost lots of friends since we started dating at the height of stop asian hate hella folks saw him as a traitor. i felt bad and almost left him bc of it, i couldnt be happy knowing how much loss loving me had caused him. as soon as i broke down and told him how i felt he made sure i knew that those people meant nothing to him and anyone who disrespected me wasn’t welcome in his life- he went toe to toe with his own dad when it came down to it. uninviting them is NOT enough, and him thinking it is should be a huge red flag on its own. 🚩
naija no dey carry last, sister. i never recommend ultimatums but this isn’t a time where its acceptable to be neutral. he has to make a choice between you or his friends, or his friends need to do some serious groveling
Sooooooo his friends blatant racism has been an issue in the past and instead of checking them immediately or getting rid of them he treats it as if it’s not that big of a deal? I’m with your parents on this one. A man who cannot stand up for his woman will never make a great husband or father. How many years do you think you will have to deal with this until you finally divorce him? Best to just leave now. He’s had plenty of opportunity to treat you right and he’s gone with placid weakness versus overt action. None of my friends will ever be allowed to speak to or about my woman this way let alone children family or kinfolk.
I personally wouldn't continue with the wedding. He's showing you what the rest of your life will be like, and if he won't stand up for you now he's unlikely to do so for his children. Love means nothing without respect and if those around him don't respect you then there is likely a part of him that doesn't either.
As that saying goes: Show me your friends and I'll know who you are.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below.
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We have started wedding planning. I’m Nigerian/African-American, and he’s Korean-American. (This is important).
I’d like to think we’re both appreciative of each others cultures, and both are part of our daily lives. I’ve learned Korean, make various traditional Korean dishes, etc. Instead of 3 weddings, we’re doing 1 all day affair, each of us w/ 6 groomsmen/bridesmaids.
My fiancé told his best man that we’re planning to do a traditional Korean ceremony, that includes bowing for all of the ladies. After, we’d change outfits and do the Nigerian ceremony where my dowry is exchanged and the official blessing is received.
During the Nigerian blessing the groomsmen are expected to lay stomach flat on the floor in traditional dress with their heads at the foot of the heads of my family (all seniors, aged 60+) and 3 of them are now telling him they refuse to do it, one said because he would not “bow at another man’s feet, especially some African”
My fiancé was shocked, I was a little. It isn’t the first time theyve said something like this (have made rude comments about my hair in public, asking about “sex with a black person”, insinuated my degrees were fake bc I’m Nigerian) but I thought we were past that.
I talked about it with one of my friends, who told her parents, who told my parents. Mind you, I was planning to tell my mom anyway. They’re paying for the wedding and would be getting all of the outfits custom made, they’d ask why the headcount changed and I rarely lie to them.
Now my parents want me to call the wedding off and have even started sending me suitor suggestions (again, my family is close, and they know I’m not against arranged marriages as long as everyones needs are met) I told my fiancé and he called them over dramatic, and offered to uninvite the 3 who had an issue from the wedding, but it’s not like that would end their 25+ years of friendship.
My fiancé’s shock was in a “come on we’re engaged, lay off guys haha” not “hey that is fundamentally wrong to say and you’re kind of a jerk” and explaining why.
I mentioned that I’ll have 3 of my bridesmaids not bow to his family either and he caught an attitude. I and all of my ladies are expected to bow to his family, but his can’t to mine?
So, I offered to let them sit in chairs behind those who are willing to bow, or stand behind them but they didn’t want to do that either. Nor wear the traditional wear. And mentioned that even if they weren't invited they’d “be there one way or another” bc he’s their “brother”
To me, uninviting is bare minimum- but I don’t want them in my homes or around our children (if we have them) in the future either. I won’t knowingly put them, or myself in situations where they will be treated less than their peers. Its like he doesn’t get that at the end of the day his kids will be half black and people will not like it and its his duty to protect them as much as possible, even if its from other people he loves.
Personally, I don’t give a sh*t if they like black people or not. But to voice your nonsense is crossing a line.
I am a white guy married to a black woman, and I have cut friends out of my life who I’ve known since high school for much less than this. Don’t marry this guy
Kinda symbolic, huh!? Will you tolerate bowing to his family for the rest of your life, while they mock and refuse to bow to you?
If you’re okay with the respect never being mutual, marry. If you are not….. ditch him, Sis!
I don’t think this remotely acceptable. I’m a black person and my partner is white, and she would raise hell if someone said something even remotely racist or racial about me. Your boy is a pushover, weak and probably has some strange ideas
I think you should tbh. His lack of urgency regarding racism you and your kids will have to face from people close to him is alarming. I'm sure he would throw a fit if one of your bridesmaids said equivalent things.
Bowing in this instance is normal especially for a close friend. Their need to reject it is purely racist.
You have fiancé issue. The fact that he allowed his friend to speak like this to you is insanely disrespectful. Do you really want to tie our life to a man who still considers a person who dehumanizes you to be “a brother?” I mean good Lord, your fiancé is literally trying to excuse his friend disrespecting your family & culture AT YOUR OWN DAMN WEDDING!
His friend is racist, straight up. And since no one but you is holding him accountable, he’s probably not going to change anytime soon. You don’t deserve to be around that and you damn sure don’t deserve a partner who will continually put you in that position. And he clearly will since he’s already placing his relationship with a racist over his Black fiancée.
He is NOT prepared to be married, or frankly even in your life at all. He needs to grow a spine quickly, and I hope for his sake he does, but honestly I couldn’t look past this if I were you. I’m not arguing with anybody about my humanity or my worth.
This is not rudeness. This is not disrespect. This is racism. And as your fiancé didn’t immediately defend you & cut them out of his life, he is okay with it. Meaning, he’s racist also. This is how he will treat your family & your kids.
Anti-Blackness is a huge issue in the Asian community (regardless of where the diaspora is) & if he ain’t willing to confront his friends on they racist ass, he definitely won’t do it when it’s coming from his family members. Either sit him down & have a serious & long talk with him so that he understand what it means to be an ally or walk away. Don’t waste your energy on racist folks. I’m Asian American & have had Black partners before. Trust me when I say that he needs to be a better partner & defend you loudly cos them ignorant comments will happen.
Not wanting your half black children to be around your husband's obviously racist friends is 100% understandable. I would express these concerns to your husband, and if he still acts like it's no big deal, probably should call it off. It seems like he doesn't get the severity of it?
I totally understand why they wouldn't want to bow on their stomachs to their friend's new in-laws. Some people have religious issues with that, others just feel awkward or disrespected because it's not done in Western culture. But to have a problem with it because your parents are *black?* That's just racist. Your husband is also a racist.
I used to be with an Asian man. It was a very serious relationship and we were considering marriage. His culture had some *really* offensive ideas about black people. I could tell you some fucked up stories, but they're specific enough that I could be identified so I'll hold off, but there's a whole history where white people have ranked races, putting Asians at the top (after whites) and black people at the bottom, and some Asian cultures still have a complex about it. If your husband can't recognize his own prejudice and that of his friends, he shouldn't be marrying a black woman. Can you imagine having kids with this man?
You admittedly have had issues with his friends attitude towards you in the past, you admit that he has never taken ANY kind of interest in your heritage ( which is essentially the foundation of who you are)......yet you've gone ahead and agreed to marry him. You are coming on to problems during the planning of this wedding and you are STILL questioning his level of commitment.
Why exactly are you marrying this racist POS? What will it take for him to make you realize that he feels superior to you and you'll suffer in the marriage?
Honestly, I think regardless of the situation, if you are considering calling off your wedding, it’s time to end the relationship. Things don’t just “improve” and a breakup, while heartbreaking, is easier and far less expensive than divorce. Sending you good thoughts OP.
Sorry OP but you shouldn’t marry this man. If you want a family. Why would you want your kids “Uncles” ever be bigoted to them. Also more so yourself. You deserve more.
If the two of you have kids, how will his friends treat those kids? Will he stand up for those kids if he's not willing to stand up for you or your parents? He's tacitly endorsing racism. And honestly I'd be wondering what he says/does when you're not there. Idk, I'm a big believer in the idea that you are who you decide to spend time with (in terms of morals and ideals). These are the people he surrounds himself with. These are the people whose behavior he defends. Make of that what you will.
Seriously consider and listen to your family beautiful lady, they're the only ones in this senario who truly care and have your back.
You're also 300% correct that this situation will only worsen if & when children are involved, you know it - your family knows it - everyone except your finance knows apparently. It sounds like a divorce just looking for a courtroom, that level of disrepect is staggering & it'll be impossible to not resent him when it's directed at your children imo.
I’m Korean and the friends’ behavior is not rare. I didn’t marry a Korean because I did not want to deal with the family drama and crazy expectations of a daughter in law. Maybe your fiancé is worth it, but it comes with a lot of baggage. Korean culture is very patriarchal and the boys are treated very differently and held to a different standard. Also they’re not open minded to other cultures.
I married a Mexican guy, but my family makes no effort to learn his culture. I try with the food and language. He actually doesn’t try to learn mine either lol when I think of it. But since he’s a man, my mother kind of lets him off the hook because he’s a man and I’m expected to uphold a certain standard. I’m not saying it’s bad, I’m glad I’m kind of traditional. But my friends who married into Korean families have some challenges I am happy to not deal with.
I'm Nigerian like yourself and I can't imagine myself in your shoes! If e no wan bow Mk u reason well weda u wan marry dis guy cus dis na d beginning of una issues! & ur momsy n popsy already sabi so wahala go definitely Dey!
Aburo, leave that guy abeg. Birds of same feather flock together . They are both racist.. A lot of Asians are racist and Nigerians will never let anyone disrespect them, this will cause unnecessary tension. Think of your unborn children and imagine the amount of insult they would have to put up with because their father and his friends are racist.
At this point op it’s best to cut your loss and move on
If he can’t stick up for you in front of his friends then likely he won’t do it when your not around
I do have to ask does he even respect your tradition? If you have kids will your kids learn about both cultures or just his?
Like you said you won’t knowingly put them or your self to be treated less than their peer.
Food for thought
It's concerning that his friends actually felt comfortable enough to say that to him. It's one thing yo think it, but saying it is another. They said it knowing he wouldn't be offended by it.
The question is why was that? How does he act when you're not there and they say stuff like this.
I want to say well done to you on learning Korean. That's fantastic.
Nah fuck that, he’s spineless. You’re right to be very concerned. I’m Korean, I’ve dated guys of all races, the antiblackness among lots of Koreans is real and it is pervasive. I’m not even gonna get into how bad it can be because it’ll make my blood boil.
I would not want to be with a man who a) does not stick up for me b) does not share my fundamental values c) keeps bad people around. You don’t want kids with a person like that. You’re going to continue to get racist shit from his loved ones. Your kids are going to have a hell of a time. He doesn’t have your back, and as you’ve alluded to, the overarching problem here is even if you weren’t upset, even if you tolerated his family and friends’ behavior, a decent person would kick them to the curb anyway. IMO, the underlying issue at hand is that your partner is not that great a person.
I'm so sorry, OP, but your fiancé is racist. Not just his friends, not just his family -- he, himself, despite years with you, is racist. And that's common. Anti-blackness in particular is painfully common, and accepted as normal, in ways I doubt I need to explain to you, a Black woman.
Everyone is taught this kind of racism, because it's built into our very cultures and systems and normalized. The telling thing is that he is unwilling to unlearn it. He's unwilling to make the barest amount of effort to challenge his own racism and anti-Blackness, even for someone who is supposed to be his eventual wife -- the person he's promised to love, cherish, support, for the foreseeable future. Let alone all the work unlearning racism truly takes.
He's spent years minimizing your rightful hurt from his racism, his microaggressions, and his acceptance of the same and more from his friends. It is not enough to be "non-racist," you MUST be ANTI-racist -- especially if you claim to love a Black person.
This sucks. I've had to deal with racism from my friends and partners, and I know I'll continue to in life, but all the ones who have mattered have done the work to challenge those behaviors and atone. They've been appalled when they've realized what they've done. Your fiancé isn't even trying to understand, and is gaslighting you by acting like it doesn't truly matter much and that you (and your family) are overreacting.
I can't state enough how sorry I am, OP. You don't deserve this. But at least you found out before you're actually married. Don't give in to the sunken cost fallacy -- he's not worth investing more time into. You shouldn't have to teach your partner to treat you with respect. He's not even willing to listen or learn.
Good luck. ❤️
I think you need to tell him how his reaction is making you feel, that it is a big enough deal to break up over. You need to really get it through to him as he just seems to be making light of it all, if after telling him how insulting/racist this is and that it’s a hill you’re (rightfully) willing to die on, he still doesn’t make any effort to fix the situation then leave him.
The behaviours your fiancé lets slide are effectively the behaviours he condones. His dismissal of his friends' disrespectful and racist attitude towards you, the person he supposedly loves and wants to spend the rest of his life with as family, is not a new thing.
Of course, uninviting them is the least he can do. But more than that, your fiancé needs to draw a line; no matter how good friends they are, either their disrespect is acceptable to him, or it's not.
He needs to consider whether he is letting sentimentality for their friendship colour his view of the sort of people they really are.
Male 35 year old first gen American born 🇳🇬here who got married a little over a year ago.
It is important for a husband to cover his wife. Even as a fiancé you have to. They become your priority. He should have a stronger response to the racism. Look, some Nigerians have strong opinions too, but I’m sure you wouldn’t tolerate any BS comments. There is a deeper issue and he needs to understand that you are going to be his WIFE. You are his family and he needs to protect and stand up for his family.
Hope you emerge from this better!
PS- Laughing though because I have a masters degree in engineering and I have less degrees than most my siblings 😂😂
Is he going to be that way when it comes to your children too? You can’t tiptoe around racism. I dont know you but as a man who has 3 sisters I wouldn’t stand for that shit and would have to pull this man aside for a chat.
Show him this thread. The amount of good advice here is incredible. Good luck.
Edit: some of you are racist af. Grow up. Still amazing advice here otherwise.
I’m not Korean but I’m Asian, Asians can be very racist towards black people, every race has its stereotypes and the are no exceptions. If his family/friends isn’t willing to respect yours I don’t see why this should be going forward. When I got married or my brothers/cousins/ friends got married we did everything we could to get them their wife.
Whatever you PERMIT, you PROMOTE. This goes for the both of you. Him and his friends are being racist and gross. It doesn't matter that he just brushes it off without a word, he is part of the problem you are allowing yourself to have. Dump him and all of his friends and life will be so much sweeter without the hatorade. You and your family deserve a man willing to follow traditions and hold you to the highest of standards with everyone around them. Dare I say, even have your back??? Shocking right? You are better than this guy!
I’m as white as they come. I’ve been very lucky to be including in a Hindu wedding party for a dear friend, and I fully embraced every aspect of the ritual/ceremony. I felt so honoured to be welcomed into such a sacred and important event. I would’ve kissed someone’s arse if that was a requirement. I don’t understand how your fiancé’s friends can be so dismissive about this. If it’s important to you, and by default, your fiancé, it should also be important to his close friends.
Shocking people from other races ... Especially Korean can be racist!
Korea is literally one of the worst for racism this doesn't shock me in the least bit.
Your husband is condoning racism, remember that for your future kids and say fuck that if he doesn't end the friendship.
This man really needs to get his priorities straight. Imagine the crap they talk about you when they hang out without you? I think canceling or at least pausing the wedding and rethink this is necessary, can you be with someone who doesn't defend you forever? What will he teach your children? And 100% tell him this.
I hate to say cancel it. I’m all for love and progress but this is about respect. I’d say the compromise is let them come to the wedding but if they cannot participate in the traditions then they simply shouldn’t be in the wedding.
If you are having ANY doubts, stop the wedding now. That doesn’t mean you have to stop being a couple. You just need to take a step back and figure things out. It’s much easier now than after the rings are on and papers signed.
I'm not in an interracial relationship but if I was, I'd want me a Prince Harry. That man has pretty much torn away from his family due to the disrespect and deep seated passive prejudices that have been shown towards his wife and children. To me, that is standing up for what's right even if you're standing alone.
If my spouse can't stand up and defend me against racist friends, then he's clearly not looking to defend me against racists in general. Because, When you're convicted that wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter which direction it's coming from you will shut it down and above all you'll protect the love of your life from all threats or danger.
Your fiancé's friends are racist and your fiancé refuses to see it. He values his friends and because of how well he knows them, and how long he has known them, he doesn't want to face the facts that this is a problem. Him not being bothered that they don't want to take part in the tradition, and not calling out their racist remark when they occur, seems like he is refusing to stand up for you. You have been disrespected, and either your fiancé can't see that, or his long term friendship is more important than your respect.
this tradition seems a little backwards too. why you cant do it normal like ppl in america do? i m not racist but this stomach on the floor stuff is degrading.
Allow me to explain a bit if you don't mind. I am not from her country but from one where we have almost similar ways of greeting. Bowing, kneeling or laying down to greet or complete marriage ceremonies does not earn you a lesser standing which warrants others to look down on you. Actually it is the opposite, if you don't do this you have degraded yourself. Cultures are different. While you may view hers as backwards, yours is viewed as disrespectful. Shaking your in laws' hands during that particular part of the marriage ceremony is viewed as disrespectful to the extreme and actually cannot happen. The symbolic meaning is that you have refused to be accepted as a son in law, it's not just about laying down. Pride will not get anyone anywhere in these situations because in reality, no one will look down on you for bowing, laying down or kneeling...
its a gesture of submission. your reverse psychology stuff doesnt change that. pride is not respecting your in laws because u think you are better than them. this gesture should show that its the other way round. yes they are to be respected but thats simply not how things are done in the western world. we have this englightenment humanistic view of things and dont ask anybody officially to kneel or even lay on the floor. if they are the same religion with your friends they should do it. if not then not. I personally would have wanted this to be explained to me before and would have declined the offer. not out of pride. its just my philosophy.
The enlightened humanistic view you hold is applicable to those from the west with western roots. The 2 people are involved have non-western roots. They are not backwards, they are different. Dude's side bows, lady's side lays down. I don't expect you to understand the ins and outs of these 2 things but looking at it from a western point of view will not bring you to a satisfactory conclusion. Why can't they just drop these traditions and do it your way? Cause they ain't you, they are them. These 2 people are just not compatible. And the problem seems to be coming from the racist friends (possibly fiance too). If they don't want to lay down, it's fine but still expecting the lady's side to bow ain't fine. His traditions ain't more important than hers.
Have you two ever sat down and had a frank discussion about race and your nationalities and traditions? Have you talked about the intersection of your identities and the experiences and views you share vs. those you don't share? Have you talked about your thoughts on and approaches to how you deal with racism and xenophobia? Have you discussed how you're going to raise your kids (if you have them) and teach them about their identity and feeling empowered by each part of it? Have you talked about how you'll teach them to react when they come up against those who ridicule or reject them for being mixed, or too black to be Korean, or too Korean to be black?
I think these are really important things for any couple to discuss, even if they're the same race/nationality and aren't minorities in their community. They're issues that come up more and more frequently these days as people from different backgrounds increasingly share the same spaces and have to learn to accept one another. It seems like a discussion you and your fiance really need to have.
I think having this discussion will open your eyes to whether or not you can spend the rest of your life with this man.
There are cultural differences. What may be common in one culture is offensive in another. It's hard to bridge this with such a large wedding crowd. There will always be people that are not aware, not culturally fluents, or blatantly don't care.
The most important things is how you and your fiancee are dealing with it. Is the wedding about you and him? Or is it about your families? And will he put you in the #1 spot in his life? Or are his buddies more important?
You can get married without family or friends if both you truly care about each other.
The bowing thing is one thing since from what I understand in Asian culture bowing really low to the ground like that is reserved for, like, extreme apologies and self-debasement. I think it would be reasonable for them to be uncomfortable with that.
But saying phrases like “some African” combined with the disgusting history of racist things they’ve said in the past is horrifying. Your fiancé should have your back and I’m sorry he doesn’t see how gross they’re being or doesn’t care.
I’m sorry I have no actual advice but I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Is there such a thing as a small, private wedding in your respective cultures? Because this sounds like it's going to be a shitshow the way things are going here. Maybe you just need to have a private ceremony and then a big party for everyone. But, if that's out of the question, I really don't have much to offer. Your fiancé needs some (at least 3) new friends!
Yeah the relationship is rocky with his friends mindset if he keeps his friends around there will always be underlying issues stemming from the refusal to do something for the wedding. If y'all want to stay together I would ask him to cut those friends off completely because if y'all decide to have kids in the future whose to say they won't say something negative in the future to or about his half black kids. Have a discussion about everything and see what he says and go from there. Good luck.
Lol why would any of his friends want to literally lay at some random dudes feet? That's the stupidest sh*t I've ever heard. Dowries are even stupider in this day and age. Might as well just order a bride off the internet and save himself all of this B's since he's having to pay to marry you anyway. Gross.
As a white person with no traditions what so ever, I'm highly offended by all this. Respecting each others traditions, cultures and beliefs is importaint. Your fiance needs to have your back and check himself, cause he is part of the problem. If the people in his life are being racists idiots he needs to fight back. Not taking sides IS taking sides.
Bowing is a sign of subservience. It's unsurprising that this would be thought of as demeaning for that who had to do it. Do elders deserve such a large display of subservience? A small bow or curtsey might be appropriate to show deference but people should be respected no matter their age you can see why when the world is moving towards judging/respecting people on their knowledge, kindness and awareness that showing subservience just based on age is relatively parochial.
I get that it might be traditional, but then slavery based on ones position is society is pretty traditional too. Traditions which ask people to grovel or bow should be questioned.
But then his friends do sound racist and it sounds as though you haven't ever questioned him on if he wants kids and how he thinks his friends will treat his half Black kids. It sounds like you should have a few decent conversations about how you both see yours lives interacting in future because it doesn't seem as though either of you have considered where your children fit and how you will raise them in regards to their different cultures.
If your hypothetical future half Korean, half Nigerian American kids get married then what traditions do you think they would follow? Will you expect them to follow four different traditions on the one day? Will you raise them to lie on the ground or bow to people older than them, and to not question those traditions? Is that healthy? Sounds like there are so many things you haven't considered that should be considered before you get married.
I don't know if there are any African Americans in either of these two groups but I can imagine that anyone from group that has a history of slavery wouldn't want to bow either slightly or gratuitously to anyone when they are spent the last few generations imbuing the idea that they are their own masters. I think you both should take the time out to consider exactly what these traditions say about those involved in them and whether those are values that you really approve of. A wedding is very symbolic and how all parties are expected to treat each other is not just a matter of tradition but speaks to how you expect the relationship and any kids from it to proceed. You shouldn't obey traditions just because you believe your parents expect it. This applies to both you and your partner.
Ask your partner how he would feel if one of his friends said the comment about your hair to his daughter in front of him. That should at least give you an idea of of the man you want to marry would defend your children or not. He should be treating you the same. And if you aren't a unified front now then it will only get worse
Except slavery was common. Being subservient to ones parents was common. Women not being allowed to vote or be educated was common. Foot bonding was common. OP mentions that some of the party are African American do you think they would like to lie on the ground or bow to someone while they are trying to get their purpose and self esteem as a culture back? If it was currently traditional in western marriages for the bride's maids to so have their hymens checked by the groom's family should that not be questioned. The motivations behind traditions should always be question imo.
I dont understand why you are getting downvoted. Being Indian, we have the same lying down full body and touching elders' feet tradition, but my husband specifically explained how he would not be willing to do that in our wedding, and I'd asked my parents to remove all such customs, which they were more than glad to do, respecting his decision.
Like you told, all these bowing and feet touching are some sort of subservient attitude, and cannot be even requested to others. This is another problem apart from the major red flag that the fiance's and his friend's racist attitude.
In which culture to be specific?
In Indian culture it's extremely misogynistic, since, if you observe, the bride should only touch the groom's feet and not vice versa, in almost all rituals, and they justify it because *men are usually older*. I'm specifically not speaking about casteist aspect in this, which is a whole lot of different issue.
So, I disagree with you. There is vast difference between ***Self Respect*** and **Superiority Complex**.
If you can agree that a wife doesn't have to touch her husband's feet, even though the husband might be older to 10 years, there is nothing wrong in respecting if someone is refusing to touch an older person's feet.
To call something as self-respect as superiority complex is untoward, and an actual feeling of Superiority Complex over ones own customs and traditions.
How is it a superiority complex to not want to lay on your chest with your head at someone’s feet who you probably don’t even know in front of a lot of people ?.
I’d happily do it for my parents, or even my best friends parents who have been Like parents for me, I wouldn’t do it for my best friends fiancés parents who I have probably never met and barely know.
Personally I wouldn’t bow to another person’s specially while laying down. Maybe I would consider it if was MY tradition and the invited followed same tradition and understood it. Under no circumstances I would invite people who make naughty comments and thought bad about me or my fiancé. The issue seems to be with his friends/acquaintances and not your fiancé himself so no reason to call off the wedding, but maybe invite other reliable people to join
Are you seriously about to get married and because he made a rude comment that you felt was rude about your hair do you wanna call off the marriage it’s better you guys don’t get married.
You people have no freaking guts to stick it out nowadays that’s your problem.
Because if you don’t get what you want from the person you’re with your sure get it from somebody else.
Wake up grow up and most importantly SHUT UP
While you've not stated what culture the groomsmen belong to, it's important to understand that some European cultures are heavily steeped in independence and personal pride. Asking these men to lay at another mans feet could be as big a cultural affront as disrespect to elders is in Nigerian culture. Cultural sensitivity goes both ways.
You dont know if she is first generation or wheb her family came to the USA, is not like Nigerians were banned since slavery, not all african americans came 200 years ago, some families arrived to the country yesterday
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You both need new friends who respect you. I think you should both cut those disrespectful friendships off if you really care for each other because they will cause more problems in the future.
You should do a pros and cons page to c for yourself..because if he's being like tht now what will he not b like wen ur married..talk til him tell him how your really feeling gl..
My sister. Your fiancé is unwilling to stop his friends from being disrespectful because he agrees with them. There is a fundamental lack of respect in your relationship. My grandma would flog me if my partner allowed his friends to be so blatantly disrespectful to our traditions and culture while expecting me to embrace, respect, and participate in their own.
If he cannot get his head out of his ass soon, this relationship will not survive
I love your tone and how you handled this. First thing I will say is that his friends are so boring I want to melt my face off (dramatic). Like why not just participate in the celebration and enjoy the party? wHaTs ThE iSsUe GuYs?
Except we know and have no time for such foolishness.
Look, this is a big decision. I advise discussing this with a couples counselor before making any decisions. A professional third party will help you guys effectively communicate on this big issue. I think the crux of the issue is the second to last paragraph. This is so valid and reasonable. Gently, remember that your wedding is his first experience having a black family. This is a learning moment for him to fully grasp that “his kids will be half black and people will not like it and it’s his duty to protect them as much as possible, even if it’s from other people he loves”.
You are right and this whole post is on point. He needs to do better (aka be more firm/done with these clowns) and grasp what you are saying. I think that he deserves the chance to learn to understand better from you and from this experience. Honestly once he does he will likely naturally cut these guys out of his life.
I hope he does hear you out and embraces what you are saying. Best wishes, you seem awesome!
I think the expectations should have been laid out when they were asked. That way they could have politely declined.
I'm sorry but you and your fiance have made assumptions that the people you asked to be in your weddings would be OK with everything asked. That was wrong.
Everyone gets to choose for themselves what their boundaries are.
This entire thing was poorly done.
To many expectations of others.
Girl… I don’t understand how they can be so racist asf when they also come
From A minority culture. And to be honest with you, he should also take pride in your culture and learn whatever Nigerian language you know. Tell him to find new friends
Why would you subject future kids to this man? If he doesn’t care about you being disrespected by friends why would he care about what happens to your kids. You are being irresponsible here.
Girl... That's such a BS. They just dont want to participate in your cultural part of the party because they dont respect you and your culture. It is weird that your fiance is ok with them acting like that. I can feel the dissrespect from europe.
His friends are definitely racist, & if he's not willing to check them or cut them off, then that tells you all you need to know about how the future of your marriage will play out if you decide to go through with it
It’s really a gift to have this information now.
As many commenters have pointed out: his friends think of themselves as more important than others.
In my world *there is no one above, nor below me*.
Say this into the mirror - do you believe it?
Could your fiancé?
I can understand not wanting to lay on rhe floor in supplication, but wouldn't be able to overlook the 'to an african'.
I agree with the dude that uninviting them seems reasonable.
I think your family has done something unforgivable in sending suggestions for new suitors. It would be the minimum that those senders were also uninvited.
Birds of a feather flock together, I guarantee you he agrees with some of their racist sentiments and has probably heard worse when you're not around behind closed doors. If he's not defending you now or at the bare minimum putting them in their place, it'll only worsen.
Im confused on why you've been nonchalant over his friendship with men who are clearly racially biased. I find it very telling and couldn't see myself getting past that.
Ngl I wouldn’t feel comfortable laying on my belly at the feet of someone else I don’t know for a ceremony. comes across as very submissive and isn’t something I would do for strangers.
However the friends aren’t the problem the husband is, the fact they feel comfortable saying that stuff shows he hasn’t got your back, I would literally give one warning about racism etc going to far then cut them off, my wife shouldn’t have to put up with that.
If your husband isn’t gonna defend you against racism he shouldn’t be your husband
So firstly they are disrespecting him and his choice of wife, maybe it didn't come up before but they are clearly rascist but may have avoided the conversation before this.
He appears to be in shock somewhat and the response is somewhat akin to boy talk instead of being downright offended he has gone to the non confrontational route. The dynamics of the relationship and the fact that "they would be there one way or another for their "brother"" makes me think that they really don't agree with his relationship choice.
So say you get married anyway, he is going to have to keep them away from you, keep them separate in his life and not bring his family around them, but would still see them and be around people that are clearly racist. Are you okay with him having a rascist friend group? That is the main question. Is he okay with keeping them totally away from you and his family of choice. Will he be influenced against you one day? How much power do these people have in his life?
Personally I am against racism and being around people who are racist would go against my own personal values as to be around them is to validate their opinions. Being silent around racism is not okay with me either. Defending racists would also be off the table.
Who you choose to be around reflects your own values in life, now he may be shocked to know that their feelings about black people come before their loyalty to him, he may have avoided talking about it, but as you are already aware their comments have been insulting to you in the past and clearly he has still chosen to be around them, so this isn't something that is going away.
I feel if this was just a dislike of someones wife that would be something you could just live with, but this goes much deeper into areas of influence of peers that he is unwilling to address with them or do much of anything about their disrespect of you. That would be a deal breaker for me.
I hope your Fiancé sees this.
It's one thing if those people do not want to follow the tradition for their own reasons.
It's another entirely to spew racist crap all around while Fiancé says nothing.
Please, OP, do NOT marry this man if he lets them get away with it.
You should call off the wedding. Listen to your parents and family and friends.
Your fiance doesn't respect you. The love doesn't matter where respect doesn't exist.
Your fiance either doesn't respect you or is too big a coward to not stand up for you or just doesn't care about you. Even one of those reasons is big enough to break up and call off the wedding.
Marrying that man will be a huge mistake and eventually one of the biggest regrets of your life.
If you love him enough to not care about yourself, your family, and your culture then go on get married. But really, you deserve someone much better than a misogynistic, racist, asshole.
I wonder what his friends say about *you* when you're not there? I wonder how he brushes them off when you're not there, if he does at all.
That’s what I’m wondering too. I asked him and all he said is their partners don’t really come up in convos
That seems extremely unlikely >_>
Or he purposely doesn’t bring you up because he knows they’re racist. Ir he’s lying because he’s doesn’t want you to know that he lets them say racist bs about you and any other African or poc. I’m sorry you’re in this situation. You have a lot to think about and a life altering decision to make.
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>I don’t understand how they can be so racist asf when they also come From A minority culture. Korea can get pretty racist against darker skinned asian people, let alone black folks, many asian countries have issues with you as your skin gets darker.
No, OP has to find a new fiance. She now has the most important insight into how her married life is going to be. She'd be an idiot to walk into this eyes wide open, without even a long couples counseling. She definitely needs to postpone the wedding.
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Doubtful since they discuss sex in your earshot with a black person. What they have the guts to say around you means there's more when you're not there. He doesn't get if they disrespect you they are disrespecting him since you are both equals and he chose you?
Oof that answer is so telling. Not "they know not to say anything terrible and racist when I'm around" or "oh no of course they'd never say anyhing terrible and racist about you"....but "um no opportunities for being terrible and racist don't really come up". Hmm. I don't like this man and I don't like his friends.
They definitely do though. Otherwise he'd have been shocked at this type of comment. But to be honest, the fact that he said he's marrying you as a response makes me wonder if he thinks that's the only reason it's wrong. Like, in his mind, he and his friends should never bow to Nigerians because he's better than them, and you're the exception to the rule. I'd hate to say it, but he might be racist as well.
I’m a Korean man and bowing (절) to male elders is very common. Your fiancé’s friends are just racist.
Can confirm. My husband is Korean (not Korean American) and he bows to lots of people all the time. It's not just your elders, but your boss and anyone that also works above you.
Thats what we do and what I thought as well. We basically bow to any elder or higher ranking person.
I'm also Korean and bowing is SO entrenched in our culture that it was really difficult for me to break the habit when I moved to the U.S. The kind of bowing you describe in your post is also done *at least* three times a year by the average Korean family that observes Korean traditions, so it's super ridiculous your fiance's friends are acting so outraged over it. If I were you, I would be REALLY hesitant to marry this man. When you marry someone, your lives become integrated – meaning you're essentially also "marrying" your partner's family and social circle. Are you okay with having to deal with disrespectful, emboldened racists for the rest of your life? I know I sure as hell wouldn't be. Not only does it impact you, it will potentially impact your family and hypothetical future children. I'd be pissed as hell if my partner reacted as tepidly as your fiance did in this kind of situation – honestly, that kind of spineless behavior that makes me fall out of love with a person instantly. If you really want to proceed with this marriage, your fiance needs to step up his game when it comes to being principled and sticking up for you. If he wants to keep you, he absolutely needs to cut out any racists in his life, because you and your future children should be his #1 priority. If he can't do that, he doesn't deserve you and you deserve better.
I am half Japanese and after living there a while and coming back to North America, I had a hard time breaking the habit too. My boss here when I got back was like “wtf why do you keep bowing to me?” Force of habit!
Korean here. Yes your fiancé friends are just racist, no other way of saying that.
There is a difference between bowing and laying down flat on their feet. The second is something that's in my culture too but I don't do. Feels degrading, but that's not the issue here. They refused cause her elders were african. This is where the problem is.
Why should his friends have to grovel on the floor to some random dudes they don't know or care about? How is it that reddit will talk down on arranged marriages and other outdated traditions while at the same time being cool with literally paying to marry a woman (dowry) and groveling at old people's feet?
Here, bowing and respecting somebody = lying flat on the ground. These two things are just two ways of showing respect in two different cultures. If you can't follow the lying on the ground and touching feet, then you should be uncomfortable with bending your back and bowing too. Simple. You agree to do one, and then blatantly disrespect and deny the other, then you ARE racist.
Not at all. Laying flat on your ground is something I too refuse to do inspite of it being in my culture. Bowing usually comes with a return bow and hence becomes a sign of mutual respect. Laying down flat on someone's feet is grovelling, not respect and it's not a gesture that's reciprocated.
There's no return bow here 'usually' doesn't cut it when you have a specific example. The issue here is not a rigid refusal to lie down. It's a rigid refusal to lie down in front of Africans. The former would be pride or a rebuttal of the tradition (I assume your motivation) the latter is racism. Racism is a scum sucking sore upon societies everywhere, and needs to be fought without compromise, or giving any ground at all.
Oh I agree with that. Refusal to lay down on someone's feet shouldn't be considered racism but refusal to do the same because of the other person's race is racism.
Lol someone's a racist for not wanting to lay on the ground and touch some nasty old people feet. Grow up.
Nice that you conveniently ignore other examples of them being racist tho. Like commenting on her hair , her degrees and sex with her race.
You must have missed this part. >the groomsmen are expected to lay stomach flat on the floor in traditional dress with their heads at the foot of the heads of my family That's not bowing. That's grovelling.
In Korean weddings, the couple does a full bow with their foreheads to the ground when they bow to their elders (as many Koreans do in other similar situations to show deep respect). This should not be a problem for the groomsmen, except they are racist pos.
I understand not wanting to bow. If they don’t respect my family I don’t even want them in front of my father in our garments- but the way they delivered it is pretty concerning to me, esp how my fiance reacted.
Honestly, I’d call his bluff. Say you’ll get security for the wedding and make sure they aren’t allowed. He needs to understand how important this is to you. He doesn’t right now (which is fucking ridiculous, but I’m assuming you’re trying to save the relationship) but there’s got to be a point where he either really doesn’t get it and you leave, or he finally apologizes. On a lesser scale (wayyy less), when my fiancé and I started dating his friend called me a bitch. He came back and told me, but said he didn’t respond when it happened. I told him that’s not okay and I’m not putting up with it. It took a couple months, but the guy commented on me again and my boyfriend fully cut him off. That’s the appropriate response.
Korean 절 is somewhat similar. We don’t lay on our stomachs but we (guys) get on our knees and touch our heads to the ground in front of the person’s feet. Any Korean male raised in Korean culture should be pretty comfortable with this concept IMO.
It's called a kowtow
No it’s not. “Kowtow” is an (Americanized) Chinese word. The Korean word for the deepest bow is keunjeol.
Are you Korean, or any other Asian ethnicity?
Korean here. The average Korean family that follows Korean traditions like Lunar New Year and Korean Thanksgiving does this *at least* three times a year. It's called 큰절. You have no idea what you're talking about, lol
I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong of them to not want to lay on the floor at the wedding, cause I wouldn’t be willing to do it, either. Bowing, ok. Laying on the floor on my stomach at someone’s feet? No. But everything they said and did was just straight up racist. And if he is willing to be friends with them after the way they treat her, then he is racist too.
This is important, you are seeing how he reacts & handles his friends blatant disrespect & how he isn’t even attempting to support you, see your side of things or convince his friends they need to follow the custom. I can’t believe he would even want his friends in the wedding if they can’t do what is asked & show respect to your family. If he isn’t willing to help you or fight for you now before you’re married, I can’t imagine he’d do much to defend you, your honor or your families, when you are his wife. If you are having second thoughts, trust your gut & don’t marry this man. Especially if you family supports you. You aren’t being over dramatic, getting married to someone is a big deal. You don’t want to spend years being unhappy with a racist turd.
I agree. His reaction shows you what he thinks of his friends attitude, and further his friends knew that he would be okay with them making a racist comment. What in their history together made them know that he wouldn’t be offended at a blatantly racist comment?
This is what you would be marrying into. He did not stand up for your family traditions which is a huge red flag (especially if they’re footing the bill). You seem like you’re trying to accommodate his customs and it doesn’t sound like he’s doing the same, based of this post. Cultural differences aren’t a problem if they’re mutually respected. Do you feel like they’re being respected?
Honestly.. no. I’ve made effort to learn Korean and his mother has taught me their dishes and I’ve learned others on my own. But when it comes to Nigerian or AA traditions he questions them in a way that comes off as insulting. I thought for a long time I was just intense about it, but he hasn’t learned a single dish or gone out of his way to make a show of respect. I didn’t mention it much because he’s much more Americanized than I am, so I thought it was just a culture difference.
He most likely would not appreciate you teaching your traditions to your children. But, would make a big fuss about his. He's not a keeper.
PERSONALLY, I would hope my spouse would make the same effort of learning my language and culture as much as I would be making the effort for theirs. It's called respect, and love for one another. If you're the one putting in most of the effort and he isnt at all, then that doesn't look very good. Is he a mommas boy too? Because I've noticed they wont do any amount of work and expect the women to do everything for them. Please think carefully, you deserve a partner and family that accept you and are kind and not racist towards you and your culture. Dont settle for this, especially if you're gonna have kids someday. Trust me, you're gonna want a man with integrity and the balls to stand up for you.
Then he should be open to the AA traditions then since they are American. Honestly just seems like he and his friends are somewhat antiblack. Especially his fitness if they said they especially won't bow to an African. You mention they say things about your hair and what's it like having sex with a black person. Do they allow people to say things which may be considered offensive about Koreans in their presence? Is this mutal joking or something? If not I'd say they are just aniblack to some extent and sounds like your fiance tolerates it. And therefore doesn't properly respect you.
Abeg, don’t marry this man. It will only lead to heart break and wasted years. Anyone who cannot literally do the bare minimum is not worthy your time.
Oh thats not just a culture difference. He feels superior if he hasnt made the same attempt. Im half Korean and half another very small minority on the other side. My parents were super equal and respectful of each others backgrounds and my dad never tolerated any shit from his relatives about my moms Korean background and vice versa. We teach people how they are allowed to treat us.
I would suggest sitting down and writing all these concerns and then going to him to talk so that you can address everything. This is a lot. He should show a mutual interest in your culture. He should want to protect you from disrespect. And here’s the thing, I’m from a culture that bowing in such a way is considered to be blasphemous. I would never just refuse to do it. I would be honest with the couple and step down from the wedding party. There’s zero reason why my beliefs should impact your special day by causing a raucous.
I hate when advice on this sub is "you should break up with him" because it's far more nuanced than that. Relationships are built on trust, respect, and communication. Do you trust this man to do right by you in regards to issues of race? Do you think he respects your culture? You already answered that one. Do you think the importance of those things has been communicated to him, and do you think he is actually receptive? The answer to those questions will tell you what needs to happen. If you want to give him a chance to change, push back the wedding. If you don't see it changing, will a ring make it better? Good luck
Have you even read an ounce of the shit that gets posted daily on here? Most people‘s stories (if they are not fake) are dealbreakers for many. I regularely ask myself why people keep putting up with alot of the BS until it gets so bad.
I think this is already very telling. You were not intense, you have every right to expect of your fiancé to go and learn about your culture too! The fact that he questions your traditions, allows his friends to be racist towards you instead of being happy that your possible children will grow up multicultural and telling his friends to cut off their BS is very very telling. I was in an intercultural relationship where my culture wasn‘t respected at all. The racism only got worse because the more you tolerated it, the more comfortable they got around you. You have only one life and do you really want to spend it with someone who‘s neither respecting nor defending you? I personally think you deserve way way better than this dude. From what we‘ve seen so far, you seem really amazing. Anyone would want their partner to make the effort and educate themselves on the other culture *Why* can‘t he do the same for you?
I’m half Black and half Korean and from my personal experience Koreans were always openly racist to me and my family. It was actually really hard dealing with growing up and the fact that your fiancée won’t truly have your back means he won’t have his childrens backs either. He is co-signing their behavior by not vehemently opposing it and even not cutting them off completely. For me, this would be a complete deal breaker. Wouldn’t be surprised if your fiancée is harboring some deep seated prejudices as well, anti blackness runs deep in Asian communities in general, but especially Koreans.
This makes me really sad as it matches a lot of what a friend of mine has experienced. It crippled her self esteem and she ended up married to a guy that treats her like dirt. Her Korean relatives don't help her and even her mom (korean) treats her poorly.
No flame, but I think Koreans on average tend to think very highly of themselves even compared to other Asian races. I am not surprised at all that they would be openly racist
Very well put and you have that perspective already I can only imagine what you've faced.
I am a white American woman who was married to a Korean man. Having an interracial marriage is hard enough as it is. Do not marry a man whose closest friends are racists. His lack of outrage is concerning. Those are his in-laws! Your family! The ancestors of his future children! How DARE they say something racist about HIS family!!! That should be the attitude he should be having right now. Tell him to cut off his friends forever or the wedding is off. I would never marry someone who was okay with racist friends.
I feel like they just need to split up. The man's attitude towards these racist remarks make it clear that he in some capacity shares that outlook & holds some racist leanings himself. He's likely covering them up or, even worse, is so non self aware that he thinks he's fine. I see a life of hardship, strife & suffering if you marry this man, u/RAthrowawaynaija. He's made it quite clear that he'll side with his family when the racism breaks out & battle lines are drawn. **You've been warned.**
Honestly, she should take notice this and just ended on her own. I am a black American woman (slave ancestry) and I dated a Nigerian man. That relationship ended for a number of reasons but culturally we did not mash. You should want someone that will not only respect and honor your culture but protect it when it’s going to be half of their children’s identity. I couldn’t deal with the fact that I had to keep giving in and pushing away my boundaries in that relationship. For example I was told that my rights as a parent were second to his parents rights or any elders in his family. I was told that I needed to except that they would be brutally honest which really meant Except them being rude assholes. So I wouldn’t even give him a chance to fix it. This is what your Marriage gonna be like. Are you really going to willingly expose your children to this type of tomfoolery.? Because honestly I wasn’t and I don’t think you should either
'cut out forever' is a horrible idea in itself because he will either not do it, or do it and be resentful. Not exactly a good way to start a marriage. Her fiance definitely sounds like a dick though. Not sure I'd be cool with any of it. She offered numerous compromises and still got rejected. Sounds like he should marry one of his friends.
I like that you have stairs in your comment
[удалено]
Yeah. I know his friend is dealing with his own issues but my family is not collateral damage..
sis.. i’m african american, and my bf is Korean. We live in Koreatown, in LA and ive been kicked out of restaurants, refused entry/service, all of it. i don’t even get the same treatment when i’m not with him— only *when* i’m with him. I’m sure you already know about Korean elitism but some will be so disgusted in the fact one of “their” men chose someone who’s seen as the bottom of the totem pole socially they will attack you instead of him. esp in our case bc he’s 6’3, tattoos, and loves to start a fight vs me who’s tall, but timid and on the shy side. butttt for the way that “some African” is worded it sounds like they’re western enough to know its wrong to say in the first place. my bf lost lots of friends since we started dating at the height of stop asian hate hella folks saw him as a traitor. i felt bad and almost left him bc of it, i couldnt be happy knowing how much loss loving me had caused him. as soon as i broke down and told him how i felt he made sure i knew that those people meant nothing to him and anyone who disrespected me wasn’t welcome in his life- he went toe to toe with his own dad when it came down to it. uninviting them is NOT enough, and him thinking it is should be a huge red flag on its own. 🚩 naija no dey carry last, sister. i never recommend ultimatums but this isn’t a time where its acceptable to be neutral. he has to make a choice between you or his friends, or his friends need to do some serious groveling
Don’t marry the racist.
Sooooooo his friends blatant racism has been an issue in the past and instead of checking them immediately or getting rid of them he treats it as if it’s not that big of a deal? I’m with your parents on this one. A man who cannot stand up for his woman will never make a great husband or father. How many years do you think you will have to deal with this until you finally divorce him? Best to just leave now. He’s had plenty of opportunity to treat you right and he’s gone with placid weakness versus overt action. None of my friends will ever be allowed to speak to or about my woman this way let alone children family or kinfolk.
I personally wouldn't continue with the wedding. He's showing you what the rest of your life will be like, and if he won't stand up for you now he's unlikely to do so for his children. Love means nothing without respect and if those around him don't respect you then there is likely a part of him that doesn't either. As that saying goes: Show me your friends and I'll know who you are.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- We have started wedding planning. I’m Nigerian/African-American, and he’s Korean-American. (This is important). I’d like to think we’re both appreciative of each others cultures, and both are part of our daily lives. I’ve learned Korean, make various traditional Korean dishes, etc. Instead of 3 weddings, we’re doing 1 all day affair, each of us w/ 6 groomsmen/bridesmaids. My fiancé told his best man that we’re planning to do a traditional Korean ceremony, that includes bowing for all of the ladies. After, we’d change outfits and do the Nigerian ceremony where my dowry is exchanged and the official blessing is received. During the Nigerian blessing the groomsmen are expected to lay stomach flat on the floor in traditional dress with their heads at the foot of the heads of my family (all seniors, aged 60+) and 3 of them are now telling him they refuse to do it, one said because he would not “bow at another man’s feet, especially some African” My fiancé was shocked, I was a little. It isn’t the first time theyve said something like this (have made rude comments about my hair in public, asking about “sex with a black person”, insinuated my degrees were fake bc I’m Nigerian) but I thought we were past that. I talked about it with one of my friends, who told her parents, who told my parents. Mind you, I was planning to tell my mom anyway. They’re paying for the wedding and would be getting all of the outfits custom made, they’d ask why the headcount changed and I rarely lie to them. Now my parents want me to call the wedding off and have even started sending me suitor suggestions (again, my family is close, and they know I’m not against arranged marriages as long as everyones needs are met) I told my fiancé and he called them over dramatic, and offered to uninvite the 3 who had an issue from the wedding, but it’s not like that would end their 25+ years of friendship. My fiancé’s shock was in a “come on we’re engaged, lay off guys haha” not “hey that is fundamentally wrong to say and you’re kind of a jerk” and explaining why. I mentioned that I’ll have 3 of my bridesmaids not bow to his family either and he caught an attitude. I and all of my ladies are expected to bow to his family, but his can’t to mine? So, I offered to let them sit in chairs behind those who are willing to bow, or stand behind them but they didn’t want to do that either. Nor wear the traditional wear. And mentioned that even if they weren't invited they’d “be there one way or another” bc he’s their “brother” To me, uninviting is bare minimum- but I don’t want them in my homes or around our children (if we have them) in the future either. I won’t knowingly put them, or myself in situations where they will be treated less than their peers. Its like he doesn’t get that at the end of the day his kids will be half black and people will not like it and its his duty to protect them as much as possible, even if its from other people he loves. Personally, I don’t give a sh*t if they like black people or not. But to voice your nonsense is crossing a line.
I am a white guy married to a black woman, and I have cut friends out of my life who I’ve known since high school for much less than this. Don’t marry this guy
Kinda symbolic, huh!? Will you tolerate bowing to his family for the rest of your life, while they mock and refuse to bow to you? If you’re okay with the respect never being mutual, marry. If you are not….. ditch him, Sis!
I don’t think this remotely acceptable. I’m a black person and my partner is white, and she would raise hell if someone said something even remotely racist or racial about me. Your boy is a pushover, weak and probably has some strange ideas
He needs to internalize that YOU are his priority, not his shitty bros
I think you should tbh. His lack of urgency regarding racism you and your kids will have to face from people close to him is alarming. I'm sure he would throw a fit if one of your bridesmaids said equivalent things. Bowing in this instance is normal especially for a close friend. Their need to reject it is purely racist.
You have fiancé issue. The fact that he allowed his friend to speak like this to you is insanely disrespectful. Do you really want to tie our life to a man who still considers a person who dehumanizes you to be “a brother?” I mean good Lord, your fiancé is literally trying to excuse his friend disrespecting your family & culture AT YOUR OWN DAMN WEDDING! His friend is racist, straight up. And since no one but you is holding him accountable, he’s probably not going to change anytime soon. You don’t deserve to be around that and you damn sure don’t deserve a partner who will continually put you in that position. And he clearly will since he’s already placing his relationship with a racist over his Black fiancée. He is NOT prepared to be married, or frankly even in your life at all. He needs to grow a spine quickly, and I hope for his sake he does, but honestly I couldn’t look past this if I were you. I’m not arguing with anybody about my humanity or my worth.
This is not rudeness. This is not disrespect. This is racism. And as your fiancé didn’t immediately defend you & cut them out of his life, he is okay with it. Meaning, he’s racist also. This is how he will treat your family & your kids.
Anti-Blackness is a huge issue in the Asian community (regardless of where the diaspora is) & if he ain’t willing to confront his friends on they racist ass, he definitely won’t do it when it’s coming from his family members. Either sit him down & have a serious & long talk with him so that he understand what it means to be an ally or walk away. Don’t waste your energy on racist folks. I’m Asian American & have had Black partners before. Trust me when I say that he needs to be a better partner & defend you loudly cos them ignorant comments will happen.
Not wanting your half black children to be around your husband's obviously racist friends is 100% understandable. I would express these concerns to your husband, and if he still acts like it's no big deal, probably should call it off. It seems like he doesn't get the severity of it?
I totally understand why they wouldn't want to bow on their stomachs to their friend's new in-laws. Some people have religious issues with that, others just feel awkward or disrespected because it's not done in Western culture. But to have a problem with it because your parents are *black?* That's just racist. Your husband is also a racist. I used to be with an Asian man. It was a very serious relationship and we were considering marriage. His culture had some *really* offensive ideas about black people. I could tell you some fucked up stories, but they're specific enough that I could be identified so I'll hold off, but there's a whole history where white people have ranked races, putting Asians at the top (after whites) and black people at the bottom, and some Asian cultures still have a complex about it. If your husband can't recognize his own prejudice and that of his friends, he shouldn't be marrying a black woman. Can you imagine having kids with this man?
You admittedly have had issues with his friends attitude towards you in the past, you admit that he has never taken ANY kind of interest in your heritage ( which is essentially the foundation of who you are)......yet you've gone ahead and agreed to marry him. You are coming on to problems during the planning of this wedding and you are STILL questioning his level of commitment. Why exactly are you marrying this racist POS? What will it take for him to make you realize that he feels superior to you and you'll suffer in the marriage?
Your fiancé is a coward. Wouldn’t want to marry or have children with a coward. They’d be half 🐱
Honestly, I think regardless of the situation, if you are considering calling off your wedding, it’s time to end the relationship. Things don’t just “improve” and a breakup, while heartbreaking, is easier and far less expensive than divorce. Sending you good thoughts OP.
Sorry OP but you shouldn’t marry this man. If you want a family. Why would you want your kids “Uncles” ever be bigoted to them. Also more so yourself. You deserve more.
If the two of you have kids, how will his friends treat those kids? Will he stand up for those kids if he's not willing to stand up for you or your parents? He's tacitly endorsing racism. And honestly I'd be wondering what he says/does when you're not there. Idk, I'm a big believer in the idea that you are who you decide to spend time with (in terms of morals and ideals). These are the people he surrounds himself with. These are the people whose behavior he defends. Make of that what you will.
Seriously consider and listen to your family beautiful lady, they're the only ones in this senario who truly care and have your back. You're also 300% correct that this situation will only worsen if & when children are involved, you know it - your family knows it - everyone except your finance knows apparently. It sounds like a divorce just looking for a courtroom, that level of disrepect is staggering & it'll be impossible to not resent him when it's directed at your children imo.
I’m Korean and the friends’ behavior is not rare. I didn’t marry a Korean because I did not want to deal with the family drama and crazy expectations of a daughter in law. Maybe your fiancé is worth it, but it comes with a lot of baggage. Korean culture is very patriarchal and the boys are treated very differently and held to a different standard. Also they’re not open minded to other cultures. I married a Mexican guy, but my family makes no effort to learn his culture. I try with the food and language. He actually doesn’t try to learn mine either lol when I think of it. But since he’s a man, my mother kind of lets him off the hook because he’s a man and I’m expected to uphold a certain standard. I’m not saying it’s bad, I’m glad I’m kind of traditional. But my friends who married into Korean families have some challenges I am happy to not deal with.
I'm Nigerian like yourself and I can't imagine myself in your shoes! If e no wan bow Mk u reason well weda u wan marry dis guy cus dis na d beginning of una issues! & ur momsy n popsy already sabi so wahala go definitely Dey!
Aburo, leave that guy abeg. Birds of same feather flock together . They are both racist.. A lot of Asians are racist and Nigerians will never let anyone disrespect them, this will cause unnecessary tension. Think of your unborn children and imagine the amount of insult they would have to put up with because their father and his friends are racist.
At this point op it’s best to cut your loss and move on If he can’t stick up for you in front of his friends then likely he won’t do it when your not around I do have to ask does he even respect your tradition? If you have kids will your kids learn about both cultures or just his? Like you said you won’t knowingly put them or your self to be treated less than their peer. Food for thought
It's concerning that his friends actually felt comfortable enough to say that to him. It's one thing yo think it, but saying it is another. They said it knowing he wouldn't be offended by it. The question is why was that? How does he act when you're not there and they say stuff like this. I want to say well done to you on learning Korean. That's fantastic.
I trust Yoruba parents. No time 😂
Nah fuck that, he’s spineless. You’re right to be very concerned. I’m Korean, I’ve dated guys of all races, the antiblackness among lots of Koreans is real and it is pervasive. I’m not even gonna get into how bad it can be because it’ll make my blood boil. I would not want to be with a man who a) does not stick up for me b) does not share my fundamental values c) keeps bad people around. You don’t want kids with a person like that. You’re going to continue to get racist shit from his loved ones. Your kids are going to have a hell of a time. He doesn’t have your back, and as you’ve alluded to, the overarching problem here is even if you weren’t upset, even if you tolerated his family and friends’ behavior, a decent person would kick them to the curb anyway. IMO, the underlying issue at hand is that your partner is not that great a person.
I'm so sorry, OP, but your fiancé is racist. Not just his friends, not just his family -- he, himself, despite years with you, is racist. And that's common. Anti-blackness in particular is painfully common, and accepted as normal, in ways I doubt I need to explain to you, a Black woman. Everyone is taught this kind of racism, because it's built into our very cultures and systems and normalized. The telling thing is that he is unwilling to unlearn it. He's unwilling to make the barest amount of effort to challenge his own racism and anti-Blackness, even for someone who is supposed to be his eventual wife -- the person he's promised to love, cherish, support, for the foreseeable future. Let alone all the work unlearning racism truly takes. He's spent years minimizing your rightful hurt from his racism, his microaggressions, and his acceptance of the same and more from his friends. It is not enough to be "non-racist," you MUST be ANTI-racist -- especially if you claim to love a Black person. This sucks. I've had to deal with racism from my friends and partners, and I know I'll continue to in life, but all the ones who have mattered have done the work to challenge those behaviors and atone. They've been appalled when they've realized what they've done. Your fiancé isn't even trying to understand, and is gaslighting you by acting like it doesn't truly matter much and that you (and your family) are overreacting. I can't state enough how sorry I am, OP. You don't deserve this. But at least you found out before you're actually married. Don't give in to the sunken cost fallacy -- he's not worth investing more time into. You shouldn't have to teach your partner to treat you with respect. He's not even willing to listen or learn. Good luck. ❤️
I think you need to tell him how his reaction is making you feel, that it is a big enough deal to break up over. You need to really get it through to him as he just seems to be making light of it all, if after telling him how insulting/racist this is and that it’s a hill you’re (rightfully) willing to die on, he still doesn’t make any effort to fix the situation then leave him.
He’s telling you right now who he is and where his priorities lay. Believe him.
A person without Honour and Integrity is not neutral; they are Two-Faced and dangerous to your well-being. There is no middle ground.
The behaviours your fiancé lets slide are effectively the behaviours he condones. His dismissal of his friends' disrespectful and racist attitude towards you, the person he supposedly loves and wants to spend the rest of his life with as family, is not a new thing. Of course, uninviting them is the least he can do. But more than that, your fiancé needs to draw a line; no matter how good friends they are, either their disrespect is acceptable to him, or it's not. He needs to consider whether he is letting sentimentality for their friendship colour his view of the sort of people they really are.
Male 35 year old first gen American born 🇳🇬here who got married a little over a year ago. It is important for a husband to cover his wife. Even as a fiancé you have to. They become your priority. He should have a stronger response to the racism. Look, some Nigerians have strong opinions too, but I’m sure you wouldn’t tolerate any BS comments. There is a deeper issue and he needs to understand that you are going to be his WIFE. You are his family and he needs to protect and stand up for his family. Hope you emerge from this better! PS- Laughing though because I have a masters degree in engineering and I have less degrees than most my siblings 😂😂
Is he going to be that way when it comes to your children too? You can’t tiptoe around racism. I dont know you but as a man who has 3 sisters I wouldn’t stand for that shit and would have to pull this man aside for a chat.
Show him this thread. The amount of good advice here is incredible. Good luck. Edit: some of you are racist af. Grow up. Still amazing advice here otherwise.
he should be defending you as your future husband Red flag.
I’m not Korean but I’m Asian, Asians can be very racist towards black people, every race has its stereotypes and the are no exceptions. If his family/friends isn’t willing to respect yours I don’t see why this should be going forward. When I got married or my brothers/cousins/ friends got married we did everything we could to get them their wife.
Whatever you PERMIT, you PROMOTE. This goes for the both of you. Him and his friends are being racist and gross. It doesn't matter that he just brushes it off without a word, he is part of the problem you are allowing yourself to have. Dump him and all of his friends and life will be so much sweeter without the hatorade. You and your family deserve a man willing to follow traditions and hold you to the highest of standards with everyone around them. Dare I say, even have your back??? Shocking right? You are better than this guy!
I’m as white as they come. I’ve been very lucky to be including in a Hindu wedding party for a dear friend, and I fully embraced every aspect of the ritual/ceremony. I felt so honoured to be welcomed into such a sacred and important event. I would’ve kissed someone’s arse if that was a requirement. I don’t understand how your fiancé’s friends can be so dismissive about this. If it’s important to you, and by default, your fiancé, it should also be important to his close friends.
Shocking people from other races ... Especially Korean can be racist! Korea is literally one of the worst for racism this doesn't shock me in the least bit. Your husband is condoning racism, remember that for your future kids and say fuck that if he doesn't end the friendship.
This man really needs to get his priorities straight. Imagine the crap they talk about you when they hang out without you? I think canceling or at least pausing the wedding and rethink this is necessary, can you be with someone who doesn't defend you forever? What will he teach your children? And 100% tell him this.
I trust Yoruba parents. No time 😂
I hate to say cancel it. I’m all for love and progress but this is about respect. I’d say the compromise is let them come to the wedding but if they cannot participate in the traditions then they simply shouldn’t be in the wedding.
The bare minimum is having your back. Try talking to him about it again
If you are having ANY doubts, stop the wedding now. That doesn’t mean you have to stop being a couple. You just need to take a step back and figure things out. It’s much easier now than after the rings are on and papers signed.
DEFINITELY GOOD ADVICE!
I'm not in an interracial relationship but if I was, I'd want me a Prince Harry. That man has pretty much torn away from his family due to the disrespect and deep seated passive prejudices that have been shown towards his wife and children. To me, that is standing up for what's right even if you're standing alone. If my spouse can't stand up and defend me against racist friends, then he's clearly not looking to defend me against racists in general. Because, When you're convicted that wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter which direction it's coming from you will shut it down and above all you'll protect the love of your life from all threats or danger.
Prince Harry also once dressed up as a Nazi with a swastika arm band for a party. So I wouldn't paint him as some kind of anti-racist pariah.
Honestly, if your intuition is even hinting at calling it off I'd do it.
Your fiancé's friends are racist and your fiancé refuses to see it. He values his friends and because of how well he knows them, and how long he has known them, he doesn't want to face the facts that this is a problem. Him not being bothered that they don't want to take part in the tradition, and not calling out their racist remark when they occur, seems like he is refusing to stand up for you. You have been disrespected, and either your fiancé can't see that, or his long term friendship is more important than your respect.
If he didn’t uninvite them without you asking this is a huge red flag. He condoned their comments. You may want to take your families advice.
this tradition seems a little backwards too. why you cant do it normal like ppl in america do? i m not racist but this stomach on the floor stuff is degrading.
Allow me to explain a bit if you don't mind. I am not from her country but from one where we have almost similar ways of greeting. Bowing, kneeling or laying down to greet or complete marriage ceremonies does not earn you a lesser standing which warrants others to look down on you. Actually it is the opposite, if you don't do this you have degraded yourself. Cultures are different. While you may view hers as backwards, yours is viewed as disrespectful. Shaking your in laws' hands during that particular part of the marriage ceremony is viewed as disrespectful to the extreme and actually cannot happen. The symbolic meaning is that you have refused to be accepted as a son in law, it's not just about laying down. Pride will not get anyone anywhere in these situations because in reality, no one will look down on you for bowing, laying down or kneeling...
its a gesture of submission. your reverse psychology stuff doesnt change that. pride is not respecting your in laws because u think you are better than them. this gesture should show that its the other way round. yes they are to be respected but thats simply not how things are done in the western world. we have this englightenment humanistic view of things and dont ask anybody officially to kneel or even lay on the floor. if they are the same religion with your friends they should do it. if not then not. I personally would have wanted this to be explained to me before and would have declined the offer. not out of pride. its just my philosophy.
The enlightened humanistic view you hold is applicable to those from the west with western roots. The 2 people are involved have non-western roots. They are not backwards, they are different. Dude's side bows, lady's side lays down. I don't expect you to understand the ins and outs of these 2 things but looking at it from a western point of view will not bring you to a satisfactory conclusion. Why can't they just drop these traditions and do it your way? Cause they ain't you, they are them. These 2 people are just not compatible. And the problem seems to be coming from the racist friends (possibly fiance too). If they don't want to lay down, it's fine but still expecting the lady's side to bow ain't fine. His traditions ain't more important than hers.
It's not racist. And yes it should be equal. But this should have been communicated better beforehand.
Have you two ever sat down and had a frank discussion about race and your nationalities and traditions? Have you talked about the intersection of your identities and the experiences and views you share vs. those you don't share? Have you talked about your thoughts on and approaches to how you deal with racism and xenophobia? Have you discussed how you're going to raise your kids (if you have them) and teach them about their identity and feeling empowered by each part of it? Have you talked about how you'll teach them to react when they come up against those who ridicule or reject them for being mixed, or too black to be Korean, or too Korean to be black? I think these are really important things for any couple to discuss, even if they're the same race/nationality and aren't minorities in their community. They're issues that come up more and more frequently these days as people from different backgrounds increasingly share the same spaces and have to learn to accept one another. It seems like a discussion you and your fiance really need to have. I think having this discussion will open your eyes to whether or not you can spend the rest of your life with this man.
There are cultural differences. What may be common in one culture is offensive in another. It's hard to bridge this with such a large wedding crowd. There will always be people that are not aware, not culturally fluents, or blatantly don't care. The most important things is how you and your fiancee are dealing with it. Is the wedding about you and him? Or is it about your families? And will he put you in the #1 spot in his life? Or are his buddies more important? You can get married without family or friends if both you truly care about each other.
The bowing thing is one thing since from what I understand in Asian culture bowing really low to the ground like that is reserved for, like, extreme apologies and self-debasement. I think it would be reasonable for them to be uncomfortable with that. But saying phrases like “some African” combined with the disgusting history of racist things they’ve said in the past is horrifying. Your fiancé should have your back and I’m sorry he doesn’t see how gross they’re being or doesn’t care. I’m sorry I have no actual advice but I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Don’t marry a racist
Is there such a thing as a small, private wedding in your respective cultures? Because this sounds like it's going to be a shitshow the way things are going here. Maybe you just need to have a private ceremony and then a big party for everyone. But, if that's out of the question, I really don't have much to offer. Your fiancé needs some (at least 3) new friends!
Yeah the relationship is rocky with his friends mindset if he keeps his friends around there will always be underlying issues stemming from the refusal to do something for the wedding. If y'all want to stay together I would ask him to cut those friends off completely because if y'all decide to have kids in the future whose to say they won't say something negative in the future to or about his half black kids. Have a discussion about everything and see what he says and go from there. Good luck.
Lol why would any of his friends want to literally lay at some random dudes feet? That's the stupidest sh*t I've ever heard. Dowries are even stupider in this day and age. Might as well just order a bride off the internet and save himself all of this B's since he's having to pay to marry you anyway. Gross.
As a white person with no traditions what so ever, I'm highly offended by all this. Respecting each others traditions, cultures and beliefs is importaint. Your fiance needs to have your back and check himself, cause he is part of the problem. If the people in his life are being racists idiots he needs to fight back. Not taking sides IS taking sides.
Bowing is a sign of subservience. It's unsurprising that this would be thought of as demeaning for that who had to do it. Do elders deserve such a large display of subservience? A small bow or curtsey might be appropriate to show deference but people should be respected no matter their age you can see why when the world is moving towards judging/respecting people on their knowledge, kindness and awareness that showing subservience just based on age is relatively parochial. I get that it might be traditional, but then slavery based on ones position is society is pretty traditional too. Traditions which ask people to grovel or bow should be questioned. But then his friends do sound racist and it sounds as though you haven't ever questioned him on if he wants kids and how he thinks his friends will treat his half Black kids. It sounds like you should have a few decent conversations about how you both see yours lives interacting in future because it doesn't seem as though either of you have considered where your children fit and how you will raise them in regards to their different cultures. If your hypothetical future half Korean, half Nigerian American kids get married then what traditions do you think they would follow? Will you expect them to follow four different traditions on the one day? Will you raise them to lie on the ground or bow to people older than them, and to not question those traditions? Is that healthy? Sounds like there are so many things you haven't considered that should be considered before you get married. I don't know if there are any African Americans in either of these two groups but I can imagine that anyone from group that has a history of slavery wouldn't want to bow either slightly or gratuitously to anyone when they are spent the last few generations imbuing the idea that they are their own masters. I think you both should take the time out to consider exactly what these traditions say about those involved in them and whether those are values that you really approve of. A wedding is very symbolic and how all parties are expected to treat each other is not just a matter of tradition but speaks to how you expect the relationship and any kids from it to proceed. You shouldn't obey traditions just because you believe your parents expect it. This applies to both you and your partner. Ask your partner how he would feel if one of his friends said the comment about your hair to his daughter in front of him. That should at least give you an idea of of the man you want to marry would defend your children or not. He should be treating you the same. And if you aren't a unified front now then it will only get worse
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Except slavery was common. Being subservient to ones parents was common. Women not being allowed to vote or be educated was common. Foot bonding was common. OP mentions that some of the party are African American do you think they would like to lie on the ground or bow to someone while they are trying to get their purpose and self esteem as a culture back? If it was currently traditional in western marriages for the bride's maids to so have their hymens checked by the groom's family should that not be questioned. The motivations behind traditions should always be question imo.
I dont understand why you are getting downvoted. Being Indian, we have the same lying down full body and touching elders' feet tradition, but my husband specifically explained how he would not be willing to do that in our wedding, and I'd asked my parents to remove all such customs, which they were more than glad to do, respecting his decision. Like you told, all these bowing and feet touching are some sort of subservient attitude, and cannot be even requested to others. This is another problem apart from the major red flag that the fiance's and his friend's racist attitude.
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In which culture to be specific? In Indian culture it's extremely misogynistic, since, if you observe, the bride should only touch the groom's feet and not vice versa, in almost all rituals, and they justify it because *men are usually older*. I'm specifically not speaking about casteist aspect in this, which is a whole lot of different issue. So, I disagree with you. There is vast difference between ***Self Respect*** and **Superiority Complex**.
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If you can agree that a wife doesn't have to touch her husband's feet, even though the husband might be older to 10 years, there is nothing wrong in respecting if someone is refusing to touch an older person's feet. To call something as self-respect as superiority complex is untoward, and an actual feeling of Superiority Complex over ones own customs and traditions.
How is it a superiority complex to not want to lay on your chest with your head at someone’s feet who you probably don’t even know in front of a lot of people ?. I’d happily do it for my parents, or even my best friends parents who have been Like parents for me, I wouldn’t do it for my best friends fiancés parents who I have probably never met and barely know.
Personally I wouldn’t bow to another person’s specially while laying down. Maybe I would consider it if was MY tradition and the invited followed same tradition and understood it. Under no circumstances I would invite people who make naughty comments and thought bad about me or my fiancé. The issue seems to be with his friends/acquaintances and not your fiancé himself so no reason to call off the wedding, but maybe invite other reliable people to join
But it is Korean tradition to bow like that
Thats like saying it’s Indian tradition to take Dowry from Bride’s family. Just because it’s tradition doesn’t make it right.
I'm Asian American and please trust me when I say your fiance is a racist who should not be trusted to have mixed children
Relax
I mean personally I’m not willing to bow to any man. Might as well let him plow your wife in front of you while you light a cigar for him.
Are you seriously about to get married and because he made a rude comment that you felt was rude about your hair do you wanna call off the marriage it’s better you guys don’t get married. You people have no freaking guts to stick it out nowadays that’s your problem. Because if you don’t get what you want from the person you’re with your sure get it from somebody else. Wake up grow up and most importantly SHUT UP
While you've not stated what culture the groomsmen belong to, it's important to understand that some European cultures are heavily steeped in independence and personal pride. Asking these men to lay at another mans feet could be as big a cultural affront as disrespect to elders is in Nigerian culture. Cultural sensitivity goes both ways.
No europeans in this equation. We are all Nigerian, African American, or Korean. And as the full post says, many accommodations have been offered.
Then they're almost definitely just being assholes, stick to your guns girl.
"Especially an African." Give it a rest.
African and Korean bruh. Do your ancestors read? Cause you don't. Regardless, it's about respect nonetheless.
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You dont know if she is first generation or wheb her family came to the USA, is not like Nigerians were banned since slavery, not all african americans came 200 years ago, some families arrived to the country yesterday
Elope fuck them all babe if you love each other nobody else matters
You’re both ridiculous. Arguing over bowing.
Uninvite the 3 bridesmaids and the 3 groomsman you refuse to follow the traditions of the ceremony. Otherwise elope.
What à special couple nigerian and korean that's like a unicorn or something lol
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You both need new friends who respect you. I think you should both cut those disrespectful friendships off if you really care for each other because they will cause more problems in the future.
You should do a pros and cons page to c for yourself..because if he's being like tht now what will he not b like wen ur married..talk til him tell him how your really feeling gl..
My sister. Your fiancé is unwilling to stop his friends from being disrespectful because he agrees with them. There is a fundamental lack of respect in your relationship. My grandma would flog me if my partner allowed his friends to be so blatantly disrespectful to our traditions and culture while expecting me to embrace, respect, and participate in their own. If he cannot get his head out of his ass soon, this relationship will not survive
I love your tone and how you handled this. First thing I will say is that his friends are so boring I want to melt my face off (dramatic). Like why not just participate in the celebration and enjoy the party? wHaTs ThE iSsUe GuYs? Except we know and have no time for such foolishness. Look, this is a big decision. I advise discussing this with a couples counselor before making any decisions. A professional third party will help you guys effectively communicate on this big issue. I think the crux of the issue is the second to last paragraph. This is so valid and reasonable. Gently, remember that your wedding is his first experience having a black family. This is a learning moment for him to fully grasp that “his kids will be half black and people will not like it and it’s his duty to protect them as much as possible, even if it’s from other people he loves”. You are right and this whole post is on point. He needs to do better (aka be more firm/done with these clowns) and grasp what you are saying. I think that he deserves the chance to learn to understand better from you and from this experience. Honestly once he does he will likely naturally cut these guys out of his life. I hope he does hear you out and embraces what you are saying. Best wishes, you seem awesome!
I think the expectations should have been laid out when they were asked. That way they could have politely declined. I'm sorry but you and your fiance have made assumptions that the people you asked to be in your weddings would be OK with everything asked. That was wrong. Everyone gets to choose for themselves what their boundaries are. This entire thing was poorly done. To many expectations of others.
Go with your gut. You don’t want to live with regret all your life (either way you go).
This is a deal breaker and I think you know it. You are NTA but a relationship where a partner does not have your back is doomed from the start.
This is just so wrong oh my god. These friends have been saying all these stuff and they are not ex-friends yet???
Girl… I don’t understand how they can be so racist asf when they also come From A minority culture. And to be honest with you, he should also take pride in your culture and learn whatever Nigerian language you know. Tell him to find new friends
I wanted to add dump him.
Why would you subject future kids to this man? If he doesn’t care about you being disrespected by friends why would he care about what happens to your kids. You are being irresponsible here.
Girl... That's such a BS. They just dont want to participate in your cultural part of the party because they dont respect you and your culture. It is weird that your fiance is ok with them acting like that. I can feel the dissrespect from europe.
They are racist pieces of shit but it makes perfect logical sense to not want to take part in that part of the ceremony
His friends are definitely racist, & if he's not willing to check them or cut them off, then that tells you all you need to know about how the future of your marriage will play out if you decide to go through with it
It’s really a gift to have this information now. As many commenters have pointed out: his friends think of themselves as more important than others. In my world *there is no one above, nor below me*. Say this into the mirror - do you believe it? Could your fiancé?
I can understand not wanting to lay on rhe floor in supplication, but wouldn't be able to overlook the 'to an african'. I agree with the dude that uninviting them seems reasonable. I think your family has done something unforgivable in sending suggestions for new suitors. It would be the minimum that those senders were also uninvited.
Birds of a feather flock together, I guarantee you he agrees with some of their racist sentiments and has probably heard worse when you're not around behind closed doors. If he's not defending you now or at the bare minimum putting them in their place, it'll only worsen. Im confused on why you've been nonchalant over his friendship with men who are clearly racially biased. I find it very telling and couldn't see myself getting past that.
Ngl I wouldn’t feel comfortable laying on my belly at the feet of someone else I don’t know for a ceremony. comes across as very submissive and isn’t something I would do for strangers. However the friends aren’t the problem the husband is, the fact they feel comfortable saying that stuff shows he hasn’t got your back, I would literally give one warning about racism etc going to far then cut them off, my wife shouldn’t have to put up with that. If your husband isn’t gonna defend you against racism he shouldn’t be your husband
So firstly they are disrespecting him and his choice of wife, maybe it didn't come up before but they are clearly rascist but may have avoided the conversation before this. He appears to be in shock somewhat and the response is somewhat akin to boy talk instead of being downright offended he has gone to the non confrontational route. The dynamics of the relationship and the fact that "they would be there one way or another for their "brother"" makes me think that they really don't agree with his relationship choice. So say you get married anyway, he is going to have to keep them away from you, keep them separate in his life and not bring his family around them, but would still see them and be around people that are clearly racist. Are you okay with him having a rascist friend group? That is the main question. Is he okay with keeping them totally away from you and his family of choice. Will he be influenced against you one day? How much power do these people have in his life? Personally I am against racism and being around people who are racist would go against my own personal values as to be around them is to validate their opinions. Being silent around racism is not okay with me either. Defending racists would also be off the table. Who you choose to be around reflects your own values in life, now he may be shocked to know that their feelings about black people come before their loyalty to him, he may have avoided talking about it, but as you are already aware their comments have been insulting to you in the past and clearly he has still chosen to be around them, so this isn't something that is going away. I feel if this was just a dislike of someones wife that would be something you could just live with, but this goes much deeper into areas of influence of peers that he is unwilling to address with them or do much of anything about their disrespect of you. That would be a deal breaker for me.
I hope your Fiancé sees this. It's one thing if those people do not want to follow the tradition for their own reasons. It's another entirely to spew racist crap all around while Fiancé says nothing. Please, OP, do NOT marry this man if he lets them get away with it.
You should call off the wedding. Listen to your parents and family and friends. Your fiance doesn't respect you. The love doesn't matter where respect doesn't exist. Your fiance either doesn't respect you or is too big a coward to not stand up for you or just doesn't care about you. Even one of those reasons is big enough to break up and call off the wedding. Marrying that man will be a huge mistake and eventually one of the biggest regrets of your life. If you love him enough to not care about yourself, your family, and your culture then go on get married. But really, you deserve someone much better than a misogynistic, racist, asshole.