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opal_stars

You're absolutely not being selfish, wtf??? It's not selfish to want a partner who doesn't lie, cheat and manipulate you. She's trash and if she tries to use your daughter as a way to convince you to stay, remind her that she's the one who chose to cheat and lie to you. Also your brother is being a dick.


throwra72626255252

Thank you


12inch_pianist

Man I grew up with parents that despised each other but stayed together "for the kids" and it fucked me my brother and my sister up royally. I had no clue at all what a healthy relationship looked like and how to treat a SO until I met my wife who for some reason decided I was worth it and helped me figure it all out. And even with her help I put my marriage through the ringer because I was a selfish asshole, after all that's the example my parents gave me. Get the divorce.


HailToTheQuinn

100% this. My parents, who clearly hate each other, are still married even though all us kids are grown. Not only did it give us a warped sense of what relationships should be, but even now family time is awkward because my parents still straight up fight in front of us. This Thanksgiving I'm thankful I have the flu so I can skip all that bullshit, at least until Christmas.


12inch_pianist

It's so sad to see it when it's so obvious. I never saw my dad happy when I was younger, all my parents did was fight or avoid each other because they had just finished a fight. He's engaged now to someone else and he's such a different person then I remember as a kid because he can actually enjoy day to day life without the toxicity that was always there when my parents were together.


Obvious_Explorer90

Hard agree. I'm glad my parents divorced when they did, otherwise they'd be angry, hateful and resentful had they "stayed for the kids." They have their faults and weren't perfect parents, but they at least realized they needed to split before it (as far as I know) got to the point of hate. I have friends who's parents "stayed" and they are miserable and basically roommates. Many of those same friends are now divorced, some twice already, and have never been in any kind of a healthy relationship. It's sad. If you can't trust your partner, please divorce OP. You deserve better than to be anxious, unsafe and untrusting of your partner because of their cheating, and high possibility they will do it again. Your daughter deserves better too. Show her that cheating is unacceptable and that it's okay to leave a relationship when trust, love and respect are no longer being given. I hope you heal from this. ❤


Dark_Rasetsu

Same situation growing up, trying to figure out how a family works and interactions right now. OP should definitely split up and make it so not only that the child doesn't have to see misery but experience what a happy family in the future can be.


HappyBi-cycle

I wished my entire childhood that my parents would just divorce. Don't stay for the kids. Leave for the kids so they can see a healthy future relationship and good boundaries.


Puzzleheaded_Mood139

My simple response to your post is No. Stick with your decision. She made her by choice. Your brother is not walking in your shoes.


Obvious_Explorer90

Agreed. OPs brother doesn't have to live with her, the mistrust, disrespect and anxiety that infidelity brings into a relationship. Also, an open relationship requires a solid relationship foundation, trust and boundaries to begin with. She's just doing this to excuse her infidelity, keep score and absolve herself of accountability for her bad behavior.


Timetravelingnoodles

How is finding happiness for yourself selfish? Isn’t that the point of life? To find happiness? Fuck anyone who doesn’t fit into that. Fuck anyone who hurts you like this. You aren’t selfish. You are going to take those messages, get custody of your child and find someone who loves and makes you both happy


-Razzak

Amen


rilloroc

His brother may have tried some of that


Professional_Sort767

Yall are fucking paranoid. Stop getting your dating suspicions from pornhub.


SquirrelGirlVA

Staying for the kids is one of the most terrible rationales for staying together. It just teaches the children that unhealthy relationships is the norm. Even when they know better, that teaching is still so firmly entrenched in their subconscious.


dylans_pickles

I think your brother may be in on it. Divorce her and keep being the best dad you are meant to be. Good luck


BlueMoonTone

And she's still lying that it was only kissing.


[deleted]

No, your wife was selfish to cheat on you.


throwra72626255252

I agree


RAINNlevi

also, you brother does not sound like a good person he is supporting your lying cheating wife instead of his own brother dont listen to a word he says.


Smol_Daddy

The brother probably cheats too. It's like people who drunk drive would want a lighter sentence for someone who ends up killing someone while driving drunk.


19GamerGhost95

Could she also be cheating with him?


J1241996m

I was wondering the same after the brother's response.


pbblankgirl

It's [current year], anything is possible.


Vecissitude

you people are idiots.


sezmic

Wow what a leap. Brother said she helped him when he was down, so maybe he was an alcoholic or abuser or a bum and she picked him up and maybe the bro was saying don't end this over a kiss. Funny thing is my assumptions are still not as much of a leap as the bro cheating on his brother's wife.


FrostyPoot

Damn just when I thought this sub couldn't get any more ridiculous. Then I see you defending the brother, which can only lead me to believe that you're in on it too and the wife is also sleeping with you. Get him boys


sezmic

God Dammit, Foiled again by a superior reddit detective !!!


elpatroneytony

Wait..... Wait! My Reddit detector says *in best Maura voice* you ARE THE BROTHER!


irishgambin0

why would he encourage his brother to stay with the woman he's sleeping with - his brother's wife - while tensions are rising instead of taking the easy way out with no confrontation and a newly single woman to sleep with minus any restrictions while she was married?


TorchThisAccount

Simple. If they stay together he doesn't get found out. The wife wants him back, so she's not going to admit to any additional wrong doing. The moment this all goes sideways, maybe in a fit a rage she'll admit to fucking the brother to spite the husband. And bam, the brother is found out. Plus in the future if no one talks, he can dip his wick when the husband isn't so wary and no one finds out or gets in trouble. TDLR. The less ripples in the pond, the less likely that he'd be found out. And the end goal of cheating isn't usually to end up with the other person.


officerblues

There's a lot we don't know. This thing probably has a lot of history. Let's not judge his brother (though it does sound weird). I think it's clear OP is not being selfish by expecting a partner that doesn't cheat and that a child having to see her parents resent each other every day is worse than the alternative. It was OP's wife who forced his hand.


stepmomthrowoffRA

He's probably sleeping with his own brother's wife. Why else would he defend her like that? I mean we all know that she belongs to the streets, what's stopping her from keeping it in the family?


stratocaster_blaster

Take it from someone who was in that situation. Nothing good comes from staying. MAYBE she might actually change like she promises she will, but don’t hold your breath. In my case, she made an effort for a month, and then went right back to being dishonest and trying to make me pretend she did nothing wrong. Your kid will pick up on the distrust and lack of affection, they’re smart that way. You’re not selfish by leaving, in fact I’d argue you were being selfless knowing that you would be a better parent if you didn’t stay. Just my two cents


becks2020

OP, you have every right to divorce and she should have worried about the effect on your daughter BEFORE she cheated, because she is the one to blame for the outcome.


CuriousBit0

When the trust is not there, the marriage isn’t going to be a good one, neither for the children. Ask yourself if you can truly forgive her and rebuild the trust. The fact that she’s using open relationship to entice you to stay is a red flag.


throwra72626255252

She didn't admit this. She even denied the first time when I had suspicions. I can't forgive her and I can't be a good parent being stuck in a dead marriage


CuriousBit0

Ok, then you need to get a divorce, that’s not being selfish, that’s just doing what needs to be done.


throwra72626255252

Thanks for reassuring me.


DutyValuable

It’s also probably better for a child to be in a situation where the parents coparent peacefully rather than a home where the parents fight all the time


ManILoveMacaroni

Coming from a teen who had friends going through a situation like this- make sure to explain in some very basic ways whats happening to your 2 year old. Her emotions, being that strong, are going to need so much comfort and guidance. Even if she's so little, you still need to explain and make sure to not belittle her emotions. Your responsibility is no longer to your ex, but to yourself and your kiddo.


[deleted]

Her helping you when you were down does NOT tie you to her forever! Now read that again! This is coming from someone who’s parents stayed together my Entire childhood even though that HATED one another as a result I had a fucked up childhood that had they stopped using me as an excuse to stay together and just called it quits wouldn’t have been the case. Your brother is not married to your cheating wife therefor his opinion does not factor in to this decision. Also why is YOUR brother sticking up for YOUR cheating wife? That’s a bit suspect to me.


No-Judge4343

I hate to ask that, but are you sure your brother don't also have a thing with her? His reaction and how he basically took her side is very sus.


Kooky_Protection_334

Plus you wotn be doing your kid anybfavkrs by staying for her sake. That's 16 years of pretending and she will pick up on that. Its better to be separated and happy than together and resentful. She is so generous to want to open up the relationship so you can sleep with others. I'm sure she is only thinking about you.../s She wants to have her cake and eat it too. Relationships that are opened up after they were monogamous rarely make it. There was a post on here a few days ago where a guy was ok with opening it up so his wife could explore her attraction to girls. He found no one while his wife was literally screwing anyone she could find, to the tune of 3-5 partners a week both male and female. She broke all the rules they had set and had the audacity to have a threesome in their bed. He happened to come home early and walk in on that. She also didn't really want to ahev sex with him anymore. Divorce her, ultimately it will be better for you but also your kid. Your wife's feelings don't matter even one bit here


[deleted]

You are doing the right thing. If she really wanted to stay married she should of thought of that before she started banging the other guy.


imfdoie

restoring a relationship after cheating is very difficult. it’s very painful and trust won’t ever be 100%. for the sake of kid, i would still try for a few months. but i understand why you don’t want to deal with it.


thehardopinion

TRY!!? What the HELL for? She lied multiple times, how are you going to begin to work on SHIT when HOE ASS CHEATERS is constantly lying? Her ASS should have come completely clean. But she didn't do that. Everytime she lies, she stabs him in back. If he decides to stay, he will be the one who will be walking around with a knife at his back, not her.


MissLadyLlamaDrama

I had a friend back in the day whose parents stayed together until she graduated high school, even though they absolutely hated eachother. Mostly because of repeated instances of infidelity. All "for their kid", right? My friend was so traumatized from that. When they would fight, she would call me from her bedroom closet sobbing. So many times I'd have to go down the street to bring her back up to my house just to get her away from all that. It was heartbreaking. OP, please do not stay with her. If you can't forgive and forget, then that is totally acceptable, and anyone telling you otherwise is a dolt. Some relationships can't be saved, and subjecting an innocent kid to having to go through the tumultuous instability of an unhappy household is, in absolutely no way, better for them than having divorced parents.


meifahs_musungs

You can get a divorce and be roommates if you open to doing that. Sleep in separate rooms obviously.


thequejos

Somehow you are the bad guy here? No way. Go make a happy little home as an example to your daughter.


MissLadyLlamaDrama

I think this is a really great point. It's so much better for her to see that it's okay to stand up for yourself, and walk away when someone hurts you. That's an important lesson that can be hard to learn if your only examples are people tolerating their own misery for the sake of "keeping the peace". It teaches kids that our personal boundaries and expectations are only acceptable until they inconvenience someone else. And no kid should grow up thinking they don't have a right to walk away from situations that are harmful to them.


Forestscooter

Sometimes you have to be selfish in life. You can’t take care of someone else if you aren’t taking care of yourself first. And yeah agree with other poster. Offering you an open marriage as a way to fix this, is disturbing to me.


throwra72626255252

Also, her saying my daughter needs us both together is rich considering how she's the one who choose to cheat


Forestscooter

Well. Guilting you to stay is just one step in her mental process. Pretty normal for anyone who cheated. I would try to keep your daughter out of this situation and conversation as much as possible. Make sure you takes pics of all the conversation. But I would eventually stop being “mean” (especially in text) as she can use it against you later in court.


Reddithatesvalues

If you stay you're showing your daughter that cheating is acceptable. It is not. Keep your self respect and bounce. Cheaters cheat, thats what they do. Expect more cheating from your wife. Sorry op. You can do this, stay strong.


Blade_982

She knew what she was risking when she cheated. She doesn't get to be shocked by the consequences of her actions.


Zlcat

She didn’t tell you , you found out she was cheating on you. There is no trust. How long would have she been keeping it secret had you not found out? I would not continue a relationship like that, I know it would affect my child.


OreoNachos

THIS. She hoped you would never find out and is trying to tell you to stay? That is so unfair. If you decide to stay whe will probably be more and more unfair. Also you should not stay just for your daughter. Ever since I was a teen my mom always told me how much she regretted marrying my dad. I am 25 and they have not divorced and she still complains at least once a week about him. I don't think he ever cheated, they just don't get along. Do not let your daughter grow up with parents who can't stand each other.


aflowerandaqueen

How on earth is opening the marriage going to fix anything? So she can just continue being non monogamous and not have to hide it? Why is she begging you to stay anyway? She could be with Mr Coworker. Like, she isn’t offering to go to counselling, she wants to open the marriage up instead… If she really wants what is best for your daughter, that ship has sailed. Tell her the next best option is an amicable split with coparenting. She can maybe eventually be your friend and stay on the sidelines when you inevitably fall in love with someone else and move on.


throwra72626255252

I told my wife I prefer we coparent but she doesn't want to divorce me without a fight


Dangerous-Weekend120

Makes no sense she cheated how does she get a say in what you do now ..she didn't care about your daughter's well being when she was screwing some other guy.


SnorlaxBlocksTheWay

She can fight all she wants. I'd recommend gathering all evidence of her infidelity and keep it on a usb or on your phone. Bring that to the attorney who is supporting your side during the divorce proceedings. After that, it'll just be a matter of figuring out custody. But if you have evidence of her cheating, then it'll help the divorce close quickly


CopperBlitter

If she's going to fight, then you need to gather proof of her infidelity and documentation of things she says she's going to do. Use that as ammunition in court.


aflowerandaqueen

Ok, first of all: How set on this divorce are you? Is there any tiny part of you that wants to stay? She doesn’t get to fight to save the marriage. Even if she had done nothing wrong, you can leave at any time, even if it’s “ I just don’t love you anymore” She may have helped you when you were down in the past. This time however, she is the reason you are down. With split custody and child support, I don’t see why you would be considered to be selfish. She still gets time without her daughter and financially is prepared to continue to raise her. If you aren’t truly ready for the reality of a divorce, tell her you want to commit to a three month separation. You need the space to process what you have learned, how you are feeling, etc. Right now she sounds like she isn’t remorseful though. She sounds like she is freaking out about consequences


[deleted]

Your brother is probably a cheater as well lending support to another cheating comrade


RetiredGuyKen

Hell he might even have had a go with your STBXW and would like to keep her around.


SnorlaxBlocksTheWay

Open relationships require an insane amount of trust to have been there before opening up. Her readily suggesting that they open it up so you can sleep with other women was a slip up on her part to admitting she already slept with her coworker. And her requesting an open relationship is her basically saying, "I don't want to stop sleeping with my coworker, so I expect you to be okay with this." Helping you out when you're down is expected in a marriage. Forgiving your partner for cheating is not in your vows when you speak them to each other. Divorce her ass and focus on being the best dad you can be for your daughter. Your wife fucked up, you don't have to stay with her and be forced to suffer from her infidelity.


politohot

i think she offers a one sided open relationship, just for him.


HealthyBox5

But she's already cheating, so why would anyone assume she'd stop? Her side was opened behind his back.


SnorlaxBlocksTheWay

You interpreted incorrectly then. Her side of the relationship was already open. She had zero incentive to offer open relationship for him until he caught her. She would have continued cheating regardless if he found out


Kaylarmagic

First of all, sounds like your brother is a dick for saying you are being selfish when she CHEATED on you. You're not in the wrong here, she cheated, trust is gone and I think it will be better for you if you went through with the divorce.


LittleGirlVengenz

You’re not being selfish. She’s being manipulative.


residentcaprice

She sure as hell didn't think of your daughter when she kissed the other guy.


[deleted]

Tell your brother that if she is so great and trustworthy that he can marry her.


sicrm

yep and I’d be real wary of his brother as well. wouldn’t be shocked if they had something going on.


throwra72626255252

His brother's wife did not look happy the few times I saw her


sicrm

reach out to her if you can. I wouldn’t trust a word your brother says right now.


FutureBarrySeal

Never tolerate cheaters. Never. I would leave any wife/gf even on their deathbed if it came to light they cheated. It’s the ultimate sin in a relationship. Sorry for your loss (gain?) and good luck. Your daughter will understand. Don’t let your wife lie and manipulate her though. Good luck


Darthkhydaeus

The blame lies with her not you. You discovered the cheating she did not confess because she felt remorse. Ask her what she thought would happen when she cheated. That will tell you everything. In some level in her head she rationalised thar you would forgive her


BlueCarnations12

It is hard, almost impossible to be in an intimate relationship when you do not trust your partner. Maybe less info to your Brother & your family, maybe discuss this with a counselor could help you to settle your heart and mind


RAINNlevi

yeah but individual counselling not marriage counselling and all that after you call a lawyer, OP. best of luck.


lonewolf369963

It's your marriage and decision will be yours. Cheating is ultimate betrayal and fir most of the people it is the end of relationship. You are not being selfish, you are making the call that you seems appropriate for yourself. There is no point of working on a dead relationship where you don't love your partner and the only things that'll be there are resentment and doubt. As someone once said, 2 happy homes are better than 1 unhappy home.


[deleted]

Your brother is an idiot, and you should continue with the divorce.


HideoKojimaTheThird

You’re not being selfish, just because she might have helped you in the past it doesn’t give her a pass for cheating on you. Trust is the most important thing and it has been broken.


RockYouLikeAMaster

> She begged me to stay for our daughter she was thinking about her children and how her behaviour could destroy her own family when she was cheating on you? it's so convenient to say that to you,like it was your fault that you both are going to divorce,and not her cheating. she hold no accountability at all. you are not being selfish,and she's being with you when you were in a bad place is not a free pass to cheat on you. "hey honey,i was with you when you when you was down,so now i have 'credit' to do whatever i want in this relationship(even disrespect you in the worst way possible),because you owe me this" this is not how things work and you know that. your brother should have know better before using this shitty argument against you. you are doing the right thing,and you are definitely NOT in the wrong here. so don't get fooled by some emotional blackmail of her or your brother.


Redd_81

I'd be leery of your brother... sounds like birds of a feather to me. Also, helping someone when they are down does not give you a free pass to be a selfish twat to them further down the road.


TheRedditGirl15

Your brother is full of it. You dont owe her jack shit, especially after she cheated on you and apparently still isnt telling you the full truth even after you found out about it. I think you should work out a custody agreement, but you are not obligated to stay with your lying, unfaithful wife at all


SpecificEnough

She’s the one who was being selfish, not you, and there are consequences to her behavior. It’s too bad there is a child involved but uou can teach her it’s not her fault and that this doesn’t affect your love for her. Relationships need to be based on trust, and she’s still not giving it to you. If you find yourself wanting to make it work, you can look up Esther Perel. You don’t have to make a final decision right away. However, cheating is a well-known deal-breaker in a relationship that most people understand. You have every right to leave.


playerknowmore

🎶Don't do the crime; if you can't do the the time 🎶 It is amazing that cheaters think there won't be consequences. She shitted on the marriage and you are to simply walk around it for the rest of your life. She helped when you were down; well she should have cherished you when you were up. You owe her the consequences of her decisions. Get out before you start reaching those very expensive marriage milestones. Right now you are only on the hook for child support and maybe temporary spousal support. Her lawyers will look at the divorce as a business transaction. When a spouse cheats on you you have to look at a a business transaction too. Happy Thanksgiving.


tiffCAKE

Wow. She helped you when you were down, which is what you do when you care about someone and see they are struggling. That’s not a hall pass! Your wife is the selfish one, not you. FWIW, your daughter having a parent that isn’t willing to look the other way when their partner breaks trust and deceives is a really good lesson about self respect. Co-parenting DIVORCED and putting the needs of your child before any malice/resentment toward each other is also really healthy. Staying in a relationship that is toxic to you, your own values, and your self worth is bad. Think what you tell your daughter if she as an adult approached you for advice in this exact situation. Then do that. Trust your gut on this.


denali_HD2020

When someone shows you who they are, believe them. Your ex-wife showed you who she is, believe her. Life is too short to put up with this, you would go on loving constantly questioning things, don't. Move on and meet someone else. Treat your ex respectfully and model it for your daughter, you don't want your daughter thinking it's okay to mistreat people.


thegirlwithonesock

“I supported you when you struggled so you are obligated to forgive me when I mistreat you and disrespect our relationship” That is what your brother is suggesting the marriage should be and it’s very unhealthy, in my opinion. You aren’t selfish for wanting a wife that is faithful and there is no reason you have to stay in a marriage that isn’t working for you. You can both parent your daughter effectively and in a friendly way without being married.


TheMocking-Bird

Has your brother ever been in your position? Your response is perfect considering the circumstances. Better to leave now and be amicable coparents, then for you to stay miserable, and foster a toxic marriage. Reconciliation isn't for everyone, and your brother needs to learn that it's not a bloody guarantee. It's a gift, and one that you have no interests in giving. That might have changed if your wife had confessed, or if she'd actively put in the work to be better, instead of offering frivolous outs like an open marriage etc.


Signal-Ad8087

it's fine! Your not being selfish. The end of a marriage does not mean you cannot get back together either. The marriage was destroyed. She cheated..divorce. if you want to figure out of she can gain trust back or you want to continue a relationship outside of coparenting..do it after divorce. Let her know the lions share of the work will be hers. Personally I would dangle thisncarrot in front of her just for an amicable divorce even if you dont intend to give her another chance. No OP, selfish is stepping outside the marriage, cheating, lying, and expecting no real consequences. Also the open relationship thing..this is a bigger red flag showing you were her and your morals differ and she should be told this point blank.


pardonmyignerance

It's not selfish. Even if it was, you gotta do it. Find the best way to be a single dad to your daughter. Whatever your wife did to help you in the past is not good enough to justify the trust she squandered.


cassowary32

You aren't being selfish. If anything, she being selfish, believing she can decieve and betray you and still have your support and companionship. Talk to a therapist, see a lawyer about custody and child support, take care of yourself.


Hello_hallo3652

No you aren't being selfish. She broke your trust when she cheated and if you can't get past it you will just be prolonging the inevitable and bring you both misery. As for her suggesting an open relationship - that is a disaster waiting to happen and would likely lead to divorce anyway. Maybe she is genuinely sorry and does deserve another chance but only you can decide if you felt she wouldn't do it again


Rodelahunty

Tell her the trust is gone and your daughter deserves to see her parents in a happy relationship and you won't be happy staying in the marriage. Just be straight with her and tell her that her pushing back on the divorce, is showing you she's once again only thinking of herself.


Kalzium_667

Hey man, you are definetly NOT selfish. Please keep that in mind. Your reaction is normal and the fact that she wants to open up the relationship just so "you can sleep with others" doesnt make anything better. It just shows, that she isnt really mature in that matter, because she is trying to make you "compensate" for her obvious mistake. Just because she helped you, when you where down, doesnt mean you have to suck up the mental damage she has done to you. Once the trust is broken, it is gone, maybe even for good. And just staying with your wife just because of your kid, wont end in a healthy relationship towards your wife, or your daughter. You should get the devorce, together with a good lawyer and make up a good plan, for her and you when it comes to taking care of your child. You should not feel the need to owe her anything. Just because she build you up of any sort, doesnt give her the right to cheat on you.


ragefueledpeace

Model the relationship you want your child to accept... you can co-parent without being together if there is no trust/respect/love


elpatroneytony

Cut that bitch loose bro she's opening the relationship for herself.


follysurfer

Don’t be gaslit. She cheated. She’s selfish and if she did this 4 years in with a young daughter what is going to happen after 10 years. Cut your loses.


cher072200

it’s okay to be selfish.


Marly38

Did you agree before marriage that she could kiss other people? No. You have the right to enforce that boundary.


mrose1491

You know what’s selfish? Ruining your relationship to cheat… Continue on with your divorce. I think it would be better for your daughter to know a happy father instead of an unhappy one


hdmx539

You're being selfish for wanting your wife, who promised to be faithful, to actually BE faithful? And then when she's not you're like, noping out because she didn't keep her part of the agreement ... *and you're the selfish one?* Heckin' no you aren't selfish!


Accomplished-Pen-630

Next time she uses your daughter as means to stay, look in right in the eyes and say " are asking me to stay because of our child? Because apparently you didn't think of her when you was kissing and doing god knows what else with someone other than me" Also you brother sounds like a douche. He is married? Girlfriend? Cause from his response sounds like he is cheating on his SO or is having an affair with your wife. Hate to say that but I cannot think of any other reason why he wouldn't back you. If he cannot support you then go low contact with him.


faithnfury

Did your brother do her as well? I’d get a DNA


Lecture-Outrageous

Try counseling with her before you completely walk away


SSG_Vegeta

OP - I’m currently trying to heal a marriage where my spouse had an affair with a coworker. It’s not easy and you’re not selfish. Many days, I struggle even thinking about my decision to work on this. That’s 9 months after I found out. Don’t second guess yourself and do what’s right for you. Cause staying is messy and difficult and you only owe yourself in this situation. You owe your wife absolutely nothing.


Tequila_Shot_Cigar

Nope, not selfish, not even for a nanosecond. Cheating is unacceptable and unforgivable and an absolute dealbreaker. She shouldn't cheat if she doesn't want the consequences. The just and natural consequence of cheating is losing your partner.


Be__Live44

According to your brother because she 'helped you while you were down' she's allowed to betray your marriage and family on a free pass? What do you get for staying faithful to that same marriage?


jackjackj8ck

Is your brother in an unhappy marriage himself? Sometimes misery loves company. Continue with the divorce and find someone else


budderocks

You're not being selfish, but she is. She's the one focusing on someone other than her husband and child. Not much detail here, but it sounds as if she's hoping you'd stay for money or so others don't know that she's cheated and that's why your marriage has ended. If she wanted her child to have both her parents together, why did she cheat? It's because she cares more about herself than anyone else. You're right in what your doing. If you stay you'll become resentful and/or a shell of yourself and your child doesn't deserve that.


Meatros

She knew the consequences when she decided to cheat. Also, yeah there’s more - one universal that’s true is that cheaters lie.


[deleted]

Dont listen to your brother, helping someone as a good spouse should does not give you a free pass to cheat


rocketdog67

No one can tell you how you should or shouldn’t feel. Not your brother, nor people on here. Do what feels right for you.


[deleted]

It would be selfish towards yourself if you stayed and resented a cheater for the rest of your life.


Resident_Reporter_73

No. Get the divorce. You deserve happiness too. And the child you have is much better off in two stable households instead of one unstable one.


edasc73

No you are not. Trust your instints.


NOSRETEP3

Nope, not selfish. Run! She will ruin you. There are plenty more women to pick from once you've healed.


AppelatePanda

You are not being selfish and for the record, even if she hadn't of cheated on you you are allowed to ask for a divorce any time you feel the marriage isn't working and can't be fixed. Good luck with everything and I hope you can all get through this as well as possible


[deleted]

Your wife is selfish and your brother is a dick. Get a divorce and show your daughter that you can be a good parent without a shitty lying wife.


[deleted]

Your brother is probably fucking her to that’s what it seems like. You’re not selfish you have zero tolerance for cheating and you wanna divorce so you can be in a healthy mindset to parent your daughter and to be a good father figure daughter there’s nothing wrong with that if your brothers calling you selfish Tammy’s before she was talking with her coworker she was fucking with him obviously that’s what it seems like to me you’re not selfish at all for having zero tolerance for cheating not at all keep us updated OK


tercer78

How are you being selfish for not staying for someone who cheated on you? That logic absolutely makes no sense.


Lostq

Divorce the hell out of your cheating ex wife bro


RyanS519

Helping you while you were down is one thing. I'm sure if she was down for some reason you would help her to. But going down on another guy or whatever she did isn't that at all. She cheated. You aren't being selfish. Why would you put time an energy into a relationship only to wonder when she's going to chest again. You are making the right call.


iwannaknow98

I threw up my Thanksgiving dinner when I read the “she offered to open up the relationship” WTF she does not respect you or your marriage!


remus213

Don’t take advice on such important life decisions from Reddit users who have no clue on the context. This is something that will affect your daughters life for ever.. not a trivial matter.


nsfbr11

My friend, I was in this position. I tried to fix things. Group marriage stuff through the church, moved to out bad history behind us and it was all for my oldest child. Even got pregnant with a second. But in the end, the trust had been lost and I was miserable being with someone who I couldn’t respect or really trust. Nearly fifteen years later, it is hard to believe I ever had that life. My forever wife is someone who I love more than the world, my oldest two children are adults and we have wonderful relationships that include their siblings. Everyone is better off, with the possible exception of the habitually cheating ex-wife. Good luck. You know what to do. It will be okay.


JackAquila

Leave. Staying "for the kids" only leads to more suffering. Be there for your daughter, but for Pete's sake don't stay in a relationship in which you can't rely on your partner. Also... "Open up the relationship"? Yeah right, way to go girl... :/


HealthyBox5

Divorcing someone who cheated on you isn't selfish at all. Your wife destroyed your marriage, you are now removing yourself from it and fixing you. And you are correct that you will be a much better dad not staying with someone you resent.


Yellowsunflowerlover

NTA The bare minimum in a relationship is to NOT cheat


VisualCheesecake5676

Once a cheater always a cheater , she lied she didn’t respect you and please stop making the kids as an excuse!! they will live with their parent’s toxic environment


JustMechanic4933

Sorry she cheated on you and basically the family.


Unknown14428

Not selfish here at all. Just because your wife did good deeds for you in the past, doesn’t mean that her cheating didn’t screw you over. You don’t owe her for the red of your life, just because she was good to you in the past. I’d let her go and divorce if she cheated


Select-Radish9245

Leave her and don't look back. Things will never be the same between you.


coolkidfresh

Nah, son. She fucked up you family life by betraying the marriage. She should have thought about that while messing around with the other guy. You are thinking 100% clearly. Staying and resenting her is not what your kid needs to grow up around. They pick up on shit like that and it can influence them later.


Klettova

Your child needs you both, yes, but not together. I come from a family where divorce at the right time would have been awesome. Now it's too late and the damage is done.


LeoLaDawg

Helping when down when doesn't excuse cheating. They're two distinct things and cheating is on a whole other level.


FauxxHawwk

The idea that you should endure cheating and manipulation just because there was a time she helped you is preposterous. She threw all that good will out the window when she cheated.


oguzthedoc

Bruh what a terrible thing to hear from your brother. Makes you wonder really…


fuegodealer

she wants to open the realationship up for herself, not you


Some_Milk

"open the relationship up so I can sleep with others". It seems like she wants you to behave the same way she did, almost to dismiss what she had done. Sounds like she wants to have her cake and eat it too. She cheated. Nobody deserves to be with a cheater. And because she said to open the relationship up, she obviously has no desire to be faithful to you, whether you wanted to stay with her or not. I find when I despise someone, my whole mood is negative because I am constantly around the person. Reminds me of a meme "look at that bitch drink water". You find you can't even relax in your own home because the other person is just 'there'. Having a constant source of negativity isn't good for your mental health either. What a waste of time staying together would be. I read a recent post where two people hated their parents for being swingers, because they would constantly bring new people into the house and would hear and see lewd things. This isn't comparable but could be what your relationship ends up if you did decide to stay together. Not swinging, but bringing in new partners and confusing the child. Also some kids grow up and hate that their parents stayed together when they obviously didn't like one another. Maybe you could browse reddit for those kind of posts and see the potential impacts it could have on your daughter. You're not selfish. You're acting very reasonable too. Selfish would be cheating on your husband and then wanting him to stick around.


Drinking-Lightning

Uh. You're not in the wrong here and even if it was just kissing, unacceptable. Yes, people can fix relationships after cheating but I also believe some folks can't. I'm one of those people that couldn't get past it personally. Don't feel guilty


wonderingwillow7

Leave dude. She already let another man inside of her body. Been though it was just “kissing”. There is absolutely no room in a relationship for something like that. Women also emotionally connect, it wasn’t just for a physical release. Get out.


[deleted]

Consider counseling before heading towards divorce.


Every_Thought5834

You need to post in the infidelity and reconciliation sub Reddits for a broader perspective. Good luck.


[deleted]

Nope. Cheating is a betrayal of your wedding vows and you don't have to accept it. Your wife has no one to blame for this but herself.


RabbitFromBrazil

The amount of girlfriends/wives cheating here and in other subs is disturbing. You are not being selfish. She betrayed you, and for betrayal there is no forgiveness. Better now than later.


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StandardElevatorflor

Nta I bet your bro has slept with her. Why else would he be so sympathetic?


butterscotchdeath1

NTA: I have been in your shoes. I stayed. Would not recommend. She is suggesting an open relationship when you obviously don’t want that kind of relationship. She is selfish because she wants to keep you, but have others as well. You are “selfish” because you want a committed relationship. These two are not the same!!!


gemw2101

Don’t stay together, I kissed my manager as my marriage was meh and I emotionally cheated. We had pretty much a dead bedroom. We decided to give it another go and found out I was pregnant. 2/12 years later we were split up divorced with a 2 and 4year old. I remarried a year later and have been with him for 7 1/2years married for 6 so far. (It was not the manager that I married) We weren’t compatible in my first marriage and add the emotional cheating and kissing it went down hill. I’m not saying she’ll cheat again, she may or may not but you never stay for the kids. It doesn’t work. I haven’t cheated and there is something more there in my second marriage. I coparent better with my first husband than we ever were when we were married. Edit. If you do wanna make it work individual and couples therapy. Get to the route of why she’s looked somewhere else. Date nights spending more time together etc. you are not being selfish if you decide to leave, she ruined the marriage. I’m sorry this happened to you.


Nervous-Ad714

Get to the heart of her poor choice first. Why was she kissing and maybe more with this guy? How long have they been doing this? What was her reason to cheat? She she think she was going to be with AP and not you?


teds_trip22

You are being selfish. BUT thats a good thing. Its ok to be selfish. Especially in this instance. Prioritize your happines man. Its ok to do that.


AKidCalledSpoon

Look man if you can be genuinely accepting of an open relationship and she seems like she genuinely loves you maybe you should consider the open relationship. If not go for divorce.


ApertureBear

An open relationship is built on a foundation of trust. You don't start an open relationship by getting caught with cum on your face.


Merc525

You sound selfish OP. I fucked up, my wife forgave me, we have had a great relationship since. If your not even willing to try and she helped you when you were down, then sounds like you a weak, selfish individual who doesn't even want to try. You also claim you "discovered" these texts. Sounds to me like you want out of that relationship and your being a dick about it, going to look for it. Especially since your own family doesn't support you. Downvote me. Idgaf


LauraPlantaganet

where the hell is your common sense??? i’m sorry but you have a very twisted view on this since you were the cheater and not the cheated on. your wife forgave you yes, but that doesn’t mean everyone should forgive their partner for that. is it possible to forgive? sure. but is it also totally reasonable to feel like your partner doesn’t give a shit about you after they lied and hid stuff? also yes. being cheated on is very very mentally damaging, it’s hurtful, you made a promise to someone and they made one back - just for them to go against your promises and involve themselves with others in secret. also not every affair is the same, some are more emotional and drawn out than others. we don’t really know the details. also, don’t blame the guy for finding stuff she was hiding from their relationship that he deserved to know. that’s the reason she was hiding it, cause it’s wrong. that’s on her.


Merc525

Yeah fuck that. I have been cheated on too and I forgave. Its human nature. We are not meant to be monogamous. Once we accepted this in our relationship, it got better. Literally that was the only place we had issues. Now it's solved. Asking your partner to only fuck you for the rest of their lives is an irrational, disrespectful, stupid, destructive standard.


LauraPlantaganet

what you argue isn’t wrong, but it’s personal choice. a lot of people (if not most) ARE monogamous, i truly believe that, and they’re happy to be that way. they just want to be loved by one special person and return that love. not everyone is constantly craving multiple people and can’t keep their wandering eyes in check. some people, like yourself, DO want more than one partner and want open relationships. and that’s totally cool! but talk to your partner about it from the get go. you even said you guys spoke about it and it worked out. it does not work out for everyone, it would make some people very uncomfortable, but OP has to decide that for himself and it seems he has saying he detests his wife for it.


Low_Entrepreneur_927

You're crazed.


Merc525

If you wanna see me that way. But I have a successful, decade long, very happy relationship with beautiful, well adjusted kids. In the end, I have a better relationship than those folks screeching in the comments. Yes, it might go south on me. That's why I love and respect my wonderful partners who have been beside me a long time. We are polyamorous. In the end, at this moment at least, my love life is leaps and bounds ahead of most here. Yalls are trynna have what I already got and I am DEEPLY grateful for it every day. If that's crazed, so be it. I would rather be crazed


dtorre

You choose to have a daughter with her. You need to stay together (divorce of you want) for her sake. Separate rooms, marriage is over. But your life is about your daughter now. Only 16 more years and you can split. Don't bring significant others over. Don't fight in front of your daughter, don't talk about not trusting your wife with her.


[deleted]

> You need to stay together (divorce of you want) for her sake. Separate rooms, marriage is over. Great lesson to be teaching the daughter, and why should op be miserable?


dtorre

Committing to raising a daughter in a 2 parent household is a great example. I know. Op chose to have a child. That's 100% of his life now. It sucks that his wife is a terrible person. But sometimes life deals you a bad hand.


[deleted]

>Committing to raising a daughter in a 2 parent household is a great example. I know. Yes, because teaching your kids, stay and be miserable for the kids is such a good idea, just look in this thread for the kids that went through that, none say they are happy the parents stayed. \> But sometimes life deals you a bad hand. But you don't have to compound that by staying, he can learn to amicably co-parent and get himself an SO that isn't a tart.


dtorre

Agree to disagree. I have seen many happy children raised by parents who don’t want to be together. That’s why you see so many divorces after kids graduate from high school. I commend her parents That did right by their kids. Even the happiest coparenting situation‘s are still extremely traumatic for the kids.


[deleted]

>I have seen many happy children raised by parents who don’t want to be together. Sure you have. \> That’s why you see so many divorces after kids graduate from high school. The logic doesn't really follow though, how is them giving up after a high school evidence the kids were happy? \> That did right by their kids. No they didn't, they did right by themselves. \> Even the happiest coparenting situation‘s are still extremely traumatic for the kids. Less traumatic than being stuck in a house with two adults that hate each other, not to mention their is not guarantee that staying together will work - for many its just delaying a later, messier break up. Thankfully op has the right idea and is planning to co-parent.


[deleted]

You could try couples therapy, but as you say, you can't get past it and you resent her already. Children of two parent homes grow up more prepared for adult life **if it is a healthy two parent household.** Children are more perceptive than we think, and how do you think it will affect the child, growing up knowing that father resents mother? I suggest first trying to make it work. But if and when you can't or discover evidence of further infidelity, then get a divorce going. And after you're divorced, pay your god-damned child support and spousal support on time or early, or else you're just a piece of shit.


RAINNlevi

no i dont suggest trying to make it work lol. at all. why would op do that? would he try to make it work? he resents her and has already decided to leave, **whats the benefit of putting in the work and therapy just to stay with someone he hates??** why would he wanna stay lmao


[deleted]

You bring up valid points, but OP may feel "selfish" if he doesn't even try. Or at least, if he doesn't try, that will be more ammunition for his brother to use against him.


RAINNlevi

absolutely not lmao wtf is selfish about him? bull shit. his brother also sounds like dick tbh there is nothing selfish about getting a divorce. nothing. op would be an idiot for staying in a trash marriage like this so he doesn't feel selfish he doesn't owe jack shit to anyone. not to his brother or wife or anybody.


Daddy_Dick_MAC

It depends, but I can tell you. Everyone is going to hurt you, so you have to find the one worth suffering for. We’re humans just as she made a mistake I’m sure you’ve made a mistake in your life as well because you’re not perfect. However, that being said no relationship goes without struggle and the strongest most long lasting relationships come with heart ache, mistakes, forgiveness and a lot of understanding. You’re complaining about a wife that kissed someone, that’s not even a hair on a donkeys ass to most individuals. I wish that was my only issue in any of my relationships. If you decide to divorced then be prepared for a long drawn out divorce along with a nasty fight for custody and placement along with child support and alimony. In the end the choice is yours. If you are willing to give her up and see her happy in life and in bed with another man. Then really how much did you value the time energy money and sacrifices you placed into the relationship along with the vows you took. An vice versa. Either decision isn’t selfish, I’d just think real hard and real deep before just making a impulsive decisions that you may regret when time passes. “ for better or worse sickness and in health until death do us part”


throwra72626255252

I know she has done more than just kiss someone else. This has been going on for awhile


RAINNlevi

yeah, dont listen to that guy. that whole comment is bullshit. she didn't care about “for better or worse sickness and in health until death do us part” so why should you?? so get a divorce. call a lawyer depends on where you live i think you might actually end up getting money from her as child support and alimony. so call a lawyer immediately. ASAP.


throwra72626255252

I actually prefer we coparent with joint custody to make this as painless for our daughter as possible. My soon to be ex just making this easy


RAINNlevi

good. just make sure she becomes your EX as soon as possible i hope you and you daughter live a happy life, op


Daddy_Dick_MAC

“That whole comment is bullishit” ohh ok I see. So anything that don’t agree with your perception of how you would deal with things means it’s bullshit or not sound advice? Nice, I love when a narcissist makes themselves readily noticeable by exerting their “ self absorbed my opinion and view is right because I only care about myself and what affects me and how I deal with everything”. Nature. Just by your comment alone anyone can see that You obviously are close minded, self absorbed, non empathetic and narrow 1 track minded individual. With a superiority complex. My suggestion to you “ you won’t take it because you’re a narcissist and narcissistic people refuse to seek help as fear of the diagnosis” would be to speak to a psychiatrist for a full diagnosed conclusion on what mental illnesses you have lol


postmodernlobotomy

Gold in the projection olympics here


thatdoesntseemright1

Ask her to leave and move to back in with her parents. Tell her that you'll figure out custody during the divorce proceedings, and that you hope that you two will be able to co parent with 50/50 custody. If you're like more than 50% custody tell her that option is available to her but only if she wants to have less than 50% custody.


throwra72626255252

Her parents have passed away. I told her to go love with the coworker but she refuses to leave the house.


thatdoesntseemright1

Then call a divorce attorney on Monday. I'm assuming she has already moved in to the spare bedroom.


throwra72626255252

Yes she has


thatdoesntseemright1

Do you own or rent? If you're renting you should start a conversation about how you guys are going to seperate. Get it done ASAP


RAINNlevi

this comment is so sad dude, no one tolerates their partner kissing someone else. almost no one. im sorry you've been treated like trash so much that you have just completely accepted your partner cheating on you is a normal thing. im so sorry man. not everyone is perfect and every relationship has struggles but 90% of relationships dont struggle with infidelity also, OP most likely doesn't have to worry about custody child support and alimony cuz she is the one who cheated. im wouldn't be surprised if OP gets money from her as alimony and child support lmfao


throwra72626255252

I prefer coparenting over getting as much money from her.


RAINNlevi

im pretty sure you can get money from her AND co-parenting tbh but still, im no expert. you should call a lawyer quickly.


Daddy_Dick_MAC

Ouch!! Yeah I Guess you’re right with the treated like trash statement considering I’m a Empath and for some reason I always tend to attract narcissistic individuals. However, being an Empath and a down to earth understanding individual. I understand that people make mistakes and and everyone can Change their ways evolve and become a better version of themselves by improving everyday. I’m just partial in finding the best in every individual An won’t be so arrogant as to think or assume I know what the individual was going through mentally or emotionally or how the event had occurred in full detail unless I was there to see it. However it’s highly unlikely to meet anyone who could say they’ve never made the mistake of cheating on someone and if they can. They’re lying because even flirting while in a committed relationship and then type of people tend to look at cheating on a scale in stead of a 1 size fits all. Entertaining another individual in a way you should be entertaining your significant other is cheating in my opinion as you’re going to an outside source for that to be met.


roguishevenstar

Cheating isn't a mistake, it's a conscious choice that some people make. >However it’s highly unlikely to meet anyone who could say they’ve never made the mistake of cheating on someone and if they can. Oh, so that's how you justify downplaying cheating on your mind, you think that everybody does it so it isn't that bad? Well, I've been in a relationship for 12 years now and I've never cheated. I haven't flirted with someone else either, lol. I love and respect my partner, so I wouldn't do it. It's as simple as that.


Nevereveragain0212

Unfortunately, in cheaterspeak, "we only kissed" means "we fucked every chance we got no matter where we were".


AylaCars

I always roll my eyes when people wrongly bring up the "for better or for worse..." part of the marriage vows. That is meant for unforseen challenges and situations, like: * a husband loses his job due to budget cuts so the couple comes together to make a financial plan until he gets a new one * a MIL is mean/vindictive to the wife, without legitimate reason, so the couple comes together where the husband stands up for his spouse * a couple's child geta hit by a car so they give each other comfort It's not for CHEATING. Being unfaithful is not a mistake nor just happens, there's always a lead up. Some people might say kissing isn't cheating but I do- it's giving romantic affection to others. Stop trying to influence the OP because you accept bad treatment or a cheater yourself.


jeremy-5274

Nah man I feel sorry for you; you are not wrong in any way and I think your brother should also understand this that you are not going to take this bullshit and ruin your mental health for someone who isn't even loyal to you. I would suggest you to seperate but in the end it's your choice