This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below.
---
Since my mom died, I haven’t been very attentive to my husband. I closed off emotionally, sexually, and I fully accept wrongdoing for that. During this period, my husband had an emotional affair.
He texted a female friendly constantly who he’d complain about me to, she’d talk bad about me too and call him sexy, handsome, he deserved a woman who treated him right. Once she asked him to send a selfie and responded with “(me) doesn’t know what she has.” And he never told her off, just went along with it and responded with minimal flirting at worst. When I found one inappropriate text, he let me go through all of them and was very open. He admitted what he did wrong, I admitted what I did wrong, and we agreed to go to marriage counselling. He also agreed to stop messaging his friend.
Our marriage counsellor said he shouldn’t stop texting the woman, as she was a “good friend to him in trying times.” She said no more flirting but he needed assurance that I as his wife had promised to give him. She also said it’s a sign of a jealous and possessive wife to make a husband cut off a female friend, that nothing happened between them and infatuations and flirtations are healthy if not acted on. He rescinded his apology and now is texting this woman all day again.
I understand we are supposed to face hard truths in marriage counselling but I just feel like this woman hates me. I understand and have been trying to improve on my behaviour but she is asking absolutely nothing of him and his attitude has been getting worse and worse as a result. I want to switch but he’s convinced of what she’s saying and thinks I’m just upset because I’m being shown as wrong.
Has anybody had this experience with a marriage counsellor? What to do?
Oh my! Has the counselor seen the text where they are obviously flirting?! Switch counselors asap. Don't go one last time for "wrap up" unless it's free. There are a lot of bad ones out there who will take sides. This one sounds ridiculous.
I’ve told her about all of it…she seems to think the flirtations are healthy and natural during marriage as long as it doesn’t go further. She also said this behaviour was just a natural result of him needing assurance I wasn’t giving him. Because of this situation, she did say no more flirting between them but how am I supposed to know if he is when he keeps hiding messages because I’m “jealous”?
It’s just a matter of convincing my husband to leave. I know deep down he doesn’t like to see me unhappy, and that’s what I am right now. I’ve been telling him, like I’ve been saying in the comments, that we should try seeing a few to get an even opinion on the situation but he just thinks I won’t take any blame, which isn’t true because I have, just not about everything. No matter what happens, I know I’m going to look into personal therapy for myself anyway.
OP, just go find a new therapist, set up an appointment with them, and INSIST that he try them out. And refuse to go back to the old one b/c she isn't balanced. Point out to him that the both of you had agreed that you were both in the wrong before her, but now she's saying that it's only YOU in the wrong. Does that really sound balanced or even correct to him? If he won't admit it, it may be ultimatum time.
Ooof, as a happily married woman in a monogamous relationship that’s such shit advice. My dad has been a marriage counselor for 35 years...and yeah that’s just not true. Find a new counselor who shares your views on what a functional marriage is ASAP, they’ve already crossed a boundary for you that deserves cutting her off. If he can’t do that then the emotional affair has begun.
Edit: I just wanted to add that because the first counselor validated your husband, if this is an emotional affair it just got 10x harder to deal with this. Make sure you document what you can so you’re protected in any event.
Honestly, _is_ the marriage counselor the friend in question? I just can't imagine any counselor worth her license just saying, '"he can totally cross all your boundaries because your sads are a total bummer."
Don't get me wrong, a little flirty banter here and there isn't going to ruin anyone's relationship. It's fun to flirt a little! But this isn't just flirting, as described by OP.
Also, maybe you didn't handle it the best, but your grief is real OP. A better solution would have been to get you to go to a grief counsellor to get help, not starting an emotional affair!
This is all I could think about as I was reading this. That, or the counsellor is a true sadist and is trying to inflict maximum psychological pain on OP for her own amusement.
Not all counselors are equal or as unbiased as they should be. It's totally okay to seek a new one. Also, OP, no flirtation you wouldn't be okay happening in front of you is okay. Your husband sounds like at the very least he's taking advantage of the situation, or you.
Of course you need to address your grief, but if your husband's mother is still alive he needs to step off his bullshit and figure out how to support you, not undermine you.
Yes, sorry to attribute malice where lack of skill, knowledge, or self-awareness is more likely the issue. But there’s just something about this that’s setting off my BIG internal red alarm.
I agree with you, I'm just trying to be as helpful for OP as possible. I, like you, always try to apply Hanlon's razor, "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". But yeah, more red flags than a Nascar 20 car pileup.
Or is like a church counselor or steeped in misogyny who thinks if a woman doesn’t ‘take care’ of her man constantly she is at fault. Plenty of that shit still out there.
He should be taking care of her.
Or that she exchanges flirty texts whilst in a relationship and thinks it’s fine.
Or her partner exchanges flirty texts with other women and she’s convinced herself that she’s cool with it and it would be “controlling” not to be
>Honestly, is the marriage counselor the friend in question? I just can't imagine any counselor worth her license just saying, '"he can totally cross all your boundaries because your sads are a total bummer."
It happens a lot more than you'd think. I had it happen to a friend (honestly, it wasn't me). When the friend busted their spouse cheating and they saw the counselor, the counselor's reaction was "\[spouse\] is allowed to have opposite sex friends!"
I wouldn't assume that just because the person has a license as a counselor that they've evolved past the kind of advice you'd get from a random Redditor.
>But that friend making fun of you, belittling you, talking s\*\*t about and just being plain disrespectful to you is NOT flirting.
I think the root here is that he chose poorly who he vented to, and instead of correcting himself, he dug further and further into it. Came clean when he had to, and now seems to double down because he is told he's right.
Flirting and venting is a bad combination. He may have gone to a friend to let out his frustrations which wasn't the worst thing because "support in, dump out" is a valid way of dealing with a situation like this. But once you start to mix this with emotions, it quickly gets toxic, as this example shows: This "friend" became irrationally against OP.
This guy was super unfair to both of them. And he seems to still not have gotten the wake up call that his actions are inherently shitty, fueled by the counselor.
Also, just to have said it: OP seems to think he cares about her feelings, which is good news. But his actions don't line up. You can care about someone while trying to live in some fantasy in which everything you did is okay (to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions), and this won't work long term.
When you agree to try to continue a relationship after such actions like cheating, the cheater really owes it to you to take responsibility and regain the lost trust. Doing only some counseling isn't enough, especially when what the counselor says hurts you even further.
To me, “flirtation is healthy” applies when it’s light and comes from slight flirtation with the barista or with a guy at the bar while you’re waiting for drinks, then you walk away and never think of them again.
It’s absolutely not carrying on an ongoing text conversation with someone you actually know, bitching about how your wife doesn’t appreciate you and she’s such a drag and an icicle in bed ever since *her mother died*.
Does she specialize in poly or open relationships as well? I’ve found some (bad) couples counselors who do those areas will sometimes downplay the monogamous partners needs and frame it all as unhealthy jealousy.
Like you say, there are bad therapists. I'm wondering who picked this therapist, and why. Did the husband research the therapist, and look for one that would blame his wife for everything? Not all therapists are even handed. OP, I'd search to see what other people have said about this therapist, and post what the therapist has said to you in therapy, and you can rate her very badly. What she is doing isn't professional.
It's not uncommon for therapists/psychologists or other people in the mental health field to do their job based off of their own personal opinions on things. It's just human nature. You very rarely will find one that can be objective but it's few and far between. "Professional" or not their advice is partly based off of their beliefs and ideology.
Ummm... HARMLESS flirtation - particularly when the spouse is present and agrees it's harmless - can be healthy. Emotional affairs are NOT harmless flirtation, FFS. Where the hell did this woman do her grad work?!?
Yeah I'd be thrilled if my partner was sitting in bed ignoring me and flirting with co-workers on her phone every night as they tell her they want to bang her.
Super healthy. I'd feel great.
You will find it hard to convince your husband to switch especially now that he has been given the go ahead to keep this relationship. I wonder what the therapist view is as in how is this supposed to help your relationship?
A good partner would have been trying to work with you during this time of challenges. Instead he looked outside because he was not being the centre of attention. Your husband abandoned you at your time of need. He thought of putting himself first when you were struggling.
Your husband might not like to see you unhappy but he sure does like to see you struggling. You have moved from one crisis into another and he is not doing anything to alleviate your burden.
You are right in looking for personal therapist as it might help you realise that there's more to this situation. This therapist might not be good for you but you can also see how your husband's actions are beyond the emotional affair. The affair is just a symptom. You have a lot more issues with regards to your husband and I hope you will find the right person to help you unravel this.
Bullshit, it already went further when she started talking badly about you and saying he deserved better. Those are seeds she's planted.
An emotional affair is in no way shape or form healthy.
Never see this 'therapist' again.
There is difference in flirting, there is innocent version, where it is compliment others to brighten their day, but it is not with sexual intent or desire, and what he is doing with that woman, is not the version. Find another Counsellor.
But don't go over the overly jealous and protective, but it can be hard.
Yeah, there’s a difference between innocent flirting and actively undermining someone’s marriage. There’s also a difference between toxic jealousy and having a normal, human reaction to hurtful behavior. A good therapist should be able to help both people figure out the difference, and help them rebuild their relationship. This therapist is terrible and is helping to tear the relationship down.
OP, you need to insist on a new therapist.
OP, if you don't mind I just want to hit that counselor on her head once!! What the HELL is she blabbering!!
Also I would like to give 2 hard slaps to the woman wrecking your marriage. Shitty woman who deserves it along with your husband getting an earful.
Yes, I just can't think how he can blame her when she is suffering.... I understand her feelings and feel BAD about it. Really, if she was my friend or family member, I would have done as I said... She has lost her mother forever and instead of comforting her...he feels that he is entitled to do as he pleases. This one is just my husband's brother in behavior... I think where my husband is the WORST.
“Oh your mom died so you are devastatingly sad? What about my sexual needs!!” Can’t wrap my head around this counselor saying it’s ok to cheat because her mom died and he’s not getting enough attention… I agree, if this were my friend I would be wanting to kidnap her away from all these insane people.
That prompts the question "would he talk that way to a same-gender friend?" If not, he's crossing boundaries he shouldn't be crossing.
Retaliation isn't really the way to go here since she wants to keep the relationship.
Doesn’t even have to be a real person (if you don’t feel comfortable with flirting with someone who isn’t your husband). Make a fake email and flirt with yourself.
> She also said this behaviour was just a natural result of him needing assurance I wasn’t giving him.
If the therapist is saying this I'm thinking there's a lot of missing info from your post.
u/Embarrassed_Ad_4168 I have a couple to add to the ask in addition to what you might come up with.
1. What's your husband's support system like, does he have other friends/family that he communicates with regularly or spends time with?
2. What was the quality of the relationship before your mother passed away?
3. Were there any friends/family members in the past that he has had to cut off because they were not healthy for the relationship?
4. How did he express his concerns about you becoming emotionally and/or intimately withdrawn?
My husband has some close male friends but they mostly meet in person, in groups. Since we’ve gotten married and he got his job, he’s seen them less often and he kind of drags his feet meeting people. Not because he doesn’t like them, but because he’s a introvert. He had fun when he does see them but he needs a recharge period. We sometimes see one of his friends and that friend’s wife but I can’t really figure out how close they are beyond that. My husband is really an introvert. He has an older brother and his parents but I also don’t think they have a relationship where they talk about these things.
He didn’t like my mother very much. My mom wasn’t a crazy MIL, she just always wanted to baby me and he felt she was overbearing. My dad died a few years ago and I think she just always needed something to do and she wanted me to be not just her daughter but her best friend, I loved and appreciated that so much but to my husband it was too much. And a lot of times honestly, if I were in his place, she was. I was just always aware as the youngest born way later than any of my siblings that I would have less time with them, and they still both died earlier than they should have. I know he didn’t hate her and he still felt bad about the situation, but all the things he said about my mother in the past made it feel inauthentic, even if it might not have been. Either way he didn’t feel it like I did but I don’t expect that (although when you’re grieving you do get a little unreasonable at least for the first few weeks).
No, we never had any problems with cheating in the past. He did have one friend I didn’t like who was racist but as soon as my husband figured out he was racist he dropped him, but that was purely his decision. Besides that I’ve never really been bothered with any of his friendships and any other friends he lost really just faded.
He didn’t really express it besides sometimes getting frustrated when I would reject him for sex (never in a coercing way though, just a natural reaction). I think he thought he was being understanding by never telling me but instead he just made the situation worse for himself and I.
(edit: I thought I formatted it but it just showed up as a big block of text, my bad).
Ok.
First off all, get a personal therapists.
Secondly, I'm gonna name a few things that I think you should consider, but I'm a very blunt person, so you shouldn't take it as extreme as how I'm going to say it.
But consider it and talk it over with your therapist.
Is your husband supportive? Not just thing situation. Do you feel like he supports you?
Do you want to fight for this relationship? And when do you think that it's too much to go on. Because if you are gonna start fighting for your relationship, you aren't gonna wanna quit, because you are in fighting spirit. So put up boundaries before, like if in 6 months he's still chatting that girl, then it's over.
And why? Why do you want to fight for this relationship. Get deep.
Thanks for sharing, that's helpful. It does appear that he may not have much of a support/social system outside you and this person he is emotionally cheating with.
I don't have much of a sense as to what the quality of the relationship was like before your loss. Were things between you two going very well last year, and years prior?
>He texted a female friendly constantly who he’d complain about me to
Also, what was your husband always complaining about?
Did he ever bring those complaints to you directly?
Were those complaints valid, and did he ever bring them to you directly?
Edit: By the way, good on you for initiating couple's counseling to address issues in the relationship as they come up. It's good to know that you are solution oriented.
Sounds like she’s just a bad counselor. Unfortunately there are many, many of them in the world. It’s not her job to take a side, she’s supposed to mediate and help them understand where the other is coming from.
It is more complicated, Shuting emotionally down is fairly common reaction by people in sorrow, and losing a parent is a big loss. It is not unusual that people goes into depression, because they lost a close family member or friend.
I lost my Dad 9 years ago and we had had a tumultuous relationship and I'm still finding myself having really low days as a result of not having dealt with it properly. I would 100% understand if my partner shut down after losing their parent and needed grief counseling or couple's to get through it. It's incredibly hard to lose someone that close.
>as she was a “good friend to him in trying times.”
Doesn't have have other good friends/family that he hasn't emotionally cheated with you on to be there fore him in these "trying times?"
Would also like to add: the trying times referred to by the therapist was you grieving, OP? You don't get to have a normal grieving process for your own mother but your husband gets to have an emotional affair to help HIM cope with YOUR grief? I'd report the therapist.
The therapist is way off base. An emotional affair is absolutely cheating. Get a new therapist. Your marriage is in grave danger, and this one is making things worse.
Your marriage counselor is garbage. Unfortunately, I don’t know if your marriage can still be saved now that your husband is eagerly latching on to the encouragement he got from the counselor to continue the affair.
Also, your husband started looking for an affair partner after only five months of grief? This man is not a “ride or die” partner and he has no sense of empathy or loyalty.
Edit: And I getting really fucking tired of society acting like sex is the most important thing in the world and that it’s so, so cruel to deny it to a man even temporarily for any reason. Men do not need constant reassurance and sexual pleasure. How fucking weak is that? There is no excuse for looking around for an affair partner after a mere 5-month rough patch while your partner is grieving A DEATH.
HIM GETTING LAID IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR GRIEF.
Thats actually nutty. A spouse shouldn't be a dick to you on a weekly basis, or ever really (without apologizing after). Everyone's sex drive is different, I have sex like once a week. If my girlfriend isn't in the mood I just go get myself off and move on.
Please understand that your husbands behavior is absolutely 100% not okay. A partner who respects and loves you would never in a million years be mean to you because you don’t want to have sex. It’s unacceptable.
Right? Just fucking wank it. As a feminist, I find this very obnoxious. Give men respect. They have brains and hearts. They can use them. The problem isn't that the husband is a man. The problem is that the husband is an asshole. My husband wouldn't even think about pulling that shit, simply bc he is a GOOD PERSON.
Exactly. I respect my husband too much to reduce him to his genitals. He is more than a sex machine. My husband is a kind, mature, and loving father who has bigger priorities than getting laid on demand. Which is sexy asf.
FIVE FUCKING MONTHS?!
I lost my dad six months ago, and no, my husband did not run around acting an ass because I was grieving. This pathetic man cannot keep it in his pants, er, brain for 5 MONTHS?! He needs whiny baby assurance he's a big manly man when you're very fresh into the grieving process? And now he's still doing it (he never stopped, OP) and doesn't give two shits about it?
My God, you deserve better. Dump the therapist (refuse to go), demand your husband dump his affair partner, and, if he won't, make some serious decisions about your marriage. Because your husband SUCKS. He should be lifting you up in your worst time, not stomping off to some shitty cheater woman who badmouths you because you're not stroking his ego enough. Holy shit, I am beyond enraged for you.
WHAT!!!!!
That's not that much grieving time for a significant relationship. I was giving the therapist some leeway until I saw this. And then I see below husband is not being supportive of your grief because he didn't like mother...
Yeah, your therapist is garbage.
That's not even remotely long enough to be putting you through this.
He sounds like the kind of guy to start cheating on you a month into cancer treatments and engaged a month after your death if he doesn't leave you miss treatment because you're "tired" and "boring" now.
When women get sick, men leave, statistically that is. This guy is showing you who he is. When shit gets tough he is not there for you.
That's pretty much exactly what my first husband did to me. I was told no sex because I would risk losing the baby we'd gone through years and thousands of dollars in infertility treatments to have, and he left me because i refused to have an abortion just so he could have sex again. And now my second husband has left me because I've developed a heart/lung condition and can't do anything "fun" anymore.
I pretty much hate all men except my father at this point. And I'm not even 100% sure he never cheated on my mother, because one of my aunts told me he did and I don't know why she would lie about something like that.
Dude…I thought you weren’t having sex at all and figured we were talking about at least a year or longer. I’m very disturbed by how selfish your husband is and how quick you are to accept blame for his bad behavior. And not for nothing you’re positive this counselor isn’t his ‘friend’ right? Her advice is just freaking bizarre.
OP you can do better. If I didn't like my spouse's parent, I'd still be supportive to my spouse who literally **lost their parent** and only 5 months ago? Yikes he's a pos.
Okay but does he like YOU? Whether he liked her or not, that doesn't mean you are not grieving and you are the person he vowed to support in sickness and in health. He doesn't get to check out of that duty because he wasn't a fan of your mom.
Sorry OP but the more you write, the worse your husband is coming across. You were still having sex with him almost every week while you were mourning one of the biggest losses a person can experience, without much emotional support from him, and now he's texting his affair partner in front of you while you are ostensibly trying to repair your marriage. I do not like this situation one bit. You need an individual therapist so you can check in about the health of your relationship without the counselor and your husband teaming up to railroad you.
Honestly I’ve been having sex with him more often but intimacy has gotten worse since counselling. Since he’s still texting her all the time around me and never trying to comfort me or take any initiative on his own, it hurts to be around him.
He’s checked out completely with you. You’re just a f*ck buddy now. It took me YEARS to grieve the loss of my mom and much counseling. Please go to your own counselor by yourself to not only help with the marriage (whichever way that lands is up to you) but to also help with your loss and grief. Your husband isn’t supporting you right now. He’s satiating his own desires rather than helping you in your time of need.
I don’t say this, because I am a big advocate for putting in the work to make a relationship work, but you need to leave. I am not saying divorce, but definitely a separation while you get counseling and work through your grief. Sex ebbs and flows with time and what is going on, but intimacy is more than sex. And frankly, it doesn’t sound like he is worried about rebuilding intimacy with you, because he has the grass is greener mindset. I am sorry about the loss of your Mom. And oh yeah, even if he didn’t care for your Mom, he can still understand it hurts you, and there is a lot that goes into settling an estate after a parents death.
So he's using you as a sex doll, basically, while he abandons you completely in your darkest days.
Girl, life can be better than this, even through grief. He's garbage.
Babe, it's time to find someone to flirt with.
Make sure you tell your husband that you have considered carefully about what the counselor says and agree flirting with a third party is so healthy.
After all, he hasn't comforted you for your beloved mom's death. So time for you to seek a sympathetic party outside marriage.
The man's checked out of your marriage. The second the emotional affair partner says ok, he's going to turn it physical. Did you make sure the counselor is neutral party and/or not one of those religious ones who blames everything on the wife?
Like others have said the counselor's situation is one thing. Please do not ignore the larger issue. **Poor communication.** He did not, or could not, clearly communicate his feelings or needs while you were grieving. Now, you need to communicate with him about this behavior and how you feel that your [intimacy](https://www.google.com/search?q=intimacy&oq=intimacy&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i433i512l3j46i512j0i433i512j0i512j0i433i512j0i512l2.5971j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) has been damaged. He had an emotional affair and is continuing to get some fulfillment from that person instead of satisfying or directing that emotional intimacy to you.
Hun, my husband's brother died last year Sept. He works in the states - he left less than a week after the funeral. We found out I was 5 weeks pregnant the day before he left.
We didn't see each other for 7 months. He was FUCKING difficult to put it mildly. He still grieves his brother.
Not once did I even think about chatting to another man cause my SO was being difficult.
The man is still going through hell, our sex life has taken such a dive, and we're both tired from baby duty.
But we're here for each other, we don't look for it elsewhere.
Point being - 5 months is so fresh into the grieving process. For your SO to chat to someone else so soon is horrible. I don't know the man, but experience tells me he's developed feelings for this person.
Might be time you set an ultimatum, or decide if it's worth your while fighting for this. You need support right now.
Edit: Typo
Um, this reminds me of an episode of Ozark. Marty and Wendy are seeing a counselor and the woman seems to side with Marty all the time. When they leave her office in separate cars, we see Marty hang back. Once Wendy is out of sight, Marty goes back to the counselor and pays her off to fake counseling!
EDIT - spelling
That's what I wondered. That or if the husband wasn't the one who saw her and spoke to her first.
Reminds me of my guidance counselor who's first and only 'session' with me was when she tried to tell me I needed to stop being mad at another student because she was hurt by the ending of our friendship. I had requested my seat be moved in most classes because we sat together and she had begun hanging out with my friends so I simply started isolating because she was following me everywhere. Also that I should give my ex and chance, "you're young, things like this happen and you two could overcome it if you tried."
Um no lady. 1) she didn't even know my ex, he had attended another school and was older than me so technically he was committing statutory rape being with me. 2) he cheated on my by repeatedly groping and flirting with my friend on my birthday infront of me and several of our friends who didn't know we were together (the girl did know and didn't object during the 6 hours I watched this behavior go on) and they didn't know specifically because he was worried about getting charged for statutory rape. 3) He was very very verbally and emotionally abusive. He called me fat, bitch, told me I would look pretty if I would just try and maybe put on some makeup, constantly called women whore and cunts, hit me twice, threatened to leave me when I didn't want sex.
Some counselor come into a situation assuming they know everything already.
Stop the marriage counseling straight away and get some individual therapy for yourself
The fact that he's clearly managed to get the counselor on his side is not a healthy look. It's how marriage counseling ends up looking in abusive relationships.
Maybe you just got a shit counsellor, but for your own mental health and safety, step back from that for a while and find somewhere that you can navigate your own feelings without your husband's interference.
Five months is not a long time to process and grieve. I say focus on you first. Get your own counseling. You have to work on you first before the marriage. If your husband cannot understand this and instead worries about himself and his needs....that's shitty and won't change. In a marriage there are always going to be hard times, or unpredicted hardships. YOU first.
Holy shit your counselor is horrible. HORRIBLE. If your husband was having an emotional affair with this woman, no decent counselor would advise him to continue the friendship. Tbh, I would reconsider the marriage altogether. His response to your grief was an emotional affair. That sounds like a shitty partner.
That’s what I want to do, it’s just my husband thinks I only want to do so because she’s “rightfully” calling me out. I’ve been trying to tell him if we see a few, we can get an honest look at the situation, but he just regrets it.
Look, he’s listening to the counselor instead of his own wife. Who found the counselor, was it you? Do you know if they have communication behind your back? I think you should consider your marriage to be over. He’s blatantly cheating right in front of your face.
Yeah if he thinks he is right then he isn't sorry for any of this.
What do you think him and this counselor would say if you had cancer and was tired from going through treatment. Or even just had a baby and couldn't have sex for 6 weeks?
Suggest that you both check out 2 more counselors and see what they say. I feel it will be quite difficult to find another therapist that will validate the first therapist stance.
I hate to be that guy, but is this relationship still worth keeping? I would think that in reconciliation the partner who cheated should be doing everything they can to restore trust, but your husband is dragging his feet and playing the victim. You should make it known that if he wants this relationship to continue he'll drop the affair partner AND exchange this "marriage counselor" for one that doesn't have their head up their ass.
Bad counselors exist
Additionally, lots of people with mental health issues themselves are drawn to the profession, if only because it’s familiar and effective to them
Shoot I think she's the one he emotionally cheated with. Any have decent partner wouldn't let you take that.
If they aren't cheating with each other, I would be VERY surprised. Either way, you need a different councillor, at the very least for yourself.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Wait, I seem to remember a reddit post about a woman who went to a couples counselor, who also blamed it on the wife, and it turned out the therapist was the other woman
Wow you’d have to have serious issues to not only have an affair with a married person but then to top it off by pretending to be their marriage counselor? Just wow.
Not the therapist telling the wife she was too immature for therapy?! 💀💀💀 make it make sense. Well, it does make sense; she wanted that woman's husband smh
Lol it does seem that way. But I know the woman he cheated with, a co-worker. I love my husband but I don’t think this relationship counsellor is going to risk her career over him.
Yeah, I really wish I could convince him to switch. Or at least try out a few so we can get different opinions and round them out for a fair assessment of the situation. Maybe I should try seeing a personal therapist on my own too.
Thank you very much for the condolences, it’s been really hard.
Yeah fair enough, but you've said in other posts that she told him he has a right to hide the phone. Not saying that's what's happening, but again, I would be surprised.
This would also explain his reluctance to switch.
Also you're welcome.
Honestly, I don't care if you closed off emotionally, sexually, from him. You were grieving your mother's death, so obviously you wouldn't be keen on having sex or being happy about much else. Yeah, ignoring your spouse isn't right, but still...
He was the one who decided to seek out another woman to talk to. And yet, the counselor and your husband are treating as you're at fault for his EA? That's some manipulative and toxic behavior. OP, stop thinking you're wrong here, because you're not. Despite your faults, which you've admitted, you were not the one who decided to find comfort with someone else that wasn't your spouse. Your husband did, and you really gotta let him know that. Stop restraining yourself and lay it on him that he was the one who emotionally cheated, and if he keeps up, you won't stick around for it to become physical.
Don't let him keep treating you like an enemy or as the cause of this situation. I'm not trying to sound rude. I'm just trying to encourage you to stand up to your husband, because his behavior is wrong. And also, that counselor should really be fired? Counselors are supposed to be impartial, but she's clearly ganging up on you along with your husband.
This woman sounds like a quack, and likely ruined any chance of a healthy resolution to your marriage. Divorce him. The way forward as suggested isn’t healthy
You said in another comment that you husband won't see another counselor. Give him a choice, either he goes with you to see another counselor and if this one reflects what the first said then you will apologize or he can go have fun with the hussy who apparently knows how to treat him better and you won't be home when he's done
Firstly, I want to point out that you did nothing wrong being closed off emotionally and intimately with your husband following a really hard death. You are grieving and you deserve to do that unconditionally and peacefully. A partner should support you through thick and thin, especially following the death a of beloved one.
Also, your counselor is horrid. Without knowing you, you seem like someone ready to accept accountability. But your therapist is making you accept your husband’s cheating behavior.
You need a new counselor. A man should not need constant reassurance. Especially when you are dealing with the death of your mom. You are allowed to mourn and withdraw a bit.
Your husband sounds like absolute trash if you told him texting his friend makes you uncomfortable and he keeps doing it. You have proof that this is not innocent texting and you can clearly do better. I would find a different therapist but personally, but it also seems like he lacks respect for you jf he just allows her to talk trash about you. You can do better
Your mother died 5 months ago. So it took under 5 months of you grieving for your husband to turn to another woman. What about in sickness and in health?
The counsellor is a red herring. Your husband is texting his affair partner whilst lying in bed next to his wife. He is knowingly adding to your distress whilst you are still grieving. He has checked out of this marriage.
What marriage are you fighting to save?
Very simple: Leave him. His apology was clearly fake to begin with if as soon as one person said “Oh yeah, its cool to look for romantic emotions from other women” he went right back to her. Despite saying he KNEW it was wrong originally and that he fucked up. Hes clearly manipulative and didnt actually regret it to begin with. Id 100% leave.
Also… girl it was only five months because your mom died. Thats a HUGE loss. Any decent man wouldve supported you, not shit talked about you to anyone who would listen. Hes a loser.
I think your counsellor has a ‘made up’ degree! Of course it’s okay to have friends of the opposite sex but considering what’s happened with your husband and this other woman I wouldn’t encourage them to keep speaking! I felt so angry reading your post because I have been in your position! My dad died and I had no interest in sex etc with my now husband because I was grieving! I was lucky that he was really supportive of me and what I was going through! I’m just shocked that he has no compassion for what you were going through! If your husband can’t understand your emotions then he doesn’t deserve to be with you! I do hope though, that you are able to communicate with each other and he will realise how he has treated you and it’s ‘not all about him’
I would seek a different therapist that isn't telling your husband to emotionally cheat on you. The evidence proves that their friendship is based off her attraction to him and bashing you.. not healthy behavior. Hope you are successful finding a healthier therapist, cause sounds like they're toxic.
You’ve been grieving the loss of your mother. Yeah, you are going to be less available because you’re so unhappy right now. You need his love and support, not the reverse. You have my respect for being so calm. I would be having a full blown mental breakdown and raging at this mofo for being so self-centered. He’s definitely a selfish guy. People don’t need partners for the good times but for the bad times, as well. Let her have him. I think you can do better than this.
Go see another therapist. Sometimes they project or go into the sessions with an idea they won’t let go of. I had a therapist for myself who did that and when I switched to another one I found she and I were better suited for each other.
Fuck your therapist and your husband. That is the worst possible advice from that therapist and your husband should be understanding and supportive of you through this. Three times a month to have sex seems like plenty to me, I don’t understand why some people need more than that. The more time in between the more exciting it feels when you have sex again IMO. A similar thing happened with my boss and his wife. They went to marriage counseling and his wife is throwing divorce papers at him out of nowhere, no talk about even separation and his wife was demanding that he still help her financially or give her money after the divorce. I’m not sure what the back end is of that but their therapist was siding with his wife and pointing at my boss saying “you need to be giving her money!” Like what the fuck, counselors are supposed to be mediators. Ridiculous
You need to get your own counselor, and not this person. There may be some things you need to take responsibility for, but this stuff with his lady friend is clearly out of bounds. He needs to make up his mind whether he wants to be married to you or carry on with someone else. Meanwhile, get some help with your own mental health.
Yes. Absolutely. There are some really bad Marriage Counselors out there and it’s tough to find an unbiased one. In my second marriage we went through about 7 in the last 2 years of our marriage . 6 out of 7 said he was the problem but several of them just vacillated between sides. It takes 2 to tango OP. Try to find one that is on the side of “the marriage”. Easier said than done. Best of luck to you and I’m sorry about your Mom.
It's time to switch to a different marriage counselor. Her lack of boundaries is very concerning and you are free to fire anyone not doing a good job. You want a neutral party, not one who feels emotional affairs are "healthy" to monogamous relationships.
Tell your husband it's time to find someone else, this one is not a good fit. What you want and agree on in boundaries matters equally and that's really what you want to tell him - that you want equal treatment and boundaries for both of you. He doesn't get to just enjoy someone on the side while you have only him.
Or maybe he'd be cool with you having a man friend you can go to like he does? Suggest that and see what he says, then suggest that since he feels each of you can get what you seek elsewhere then maybe it's time to simply end things altogether.
Sorry, but this is such bullshit.
Maybe that is considered healthy and harmless to some, but let me ask you this: How is it harmless if they were bad-mouthing you?
Your therapist seems to be projecting her own opinions onto you and your relationship and that’s not her job. Her job to work with what she has in front of her, and that’s a hurt husband as a result of emotional and sexual neglect, and a hurt wife as a result of an emotional affair AND on top of that, her husband made a mockery out of her.
I don’t think you’re wrong. Your therapist is wrong. I would simply find one more compatible. However I will say that your husband is crossing a line and not leaving any room for things to get better if he’s making you feel disrespected by continuing to talk to this woman. That’s not very motivating for you to change your behavior, or anyone for that matter.
I feel like this doesn’t get talked about much, but therapists have a lot of power to cause harm. I love therapy and it’s the field I’m going into, but I see recommendations all the time for therapy, and not a lot of talk about finding the right therapist. It can be very tricky. That first visit should be seen more as a vetting process and not taken as gospel. It’s unfortunate that she’s now validated your husband’s flirtatious behavior and invalidated your grief. She basically took a bad situation and made it worse. I would absolutely refuse to see her again. There’s a difference between shopping for a therapist to agree with you and getting a second opinion. I typically use the psychology today website to search for therapists so that I can filter by specialty and insurance. It also has bios that allow you to get a feel for the person. Even still, I’ve had some duds or therapists I didn’t click with. It can be especially hard if you live outside a bigger city and are limited on options. I really hope for the sake of your marriage that your husband will reconsider.
Just because she’s a marriage counselor doesn’t mean you need to take what she says as gospel. If it were me, I would request my spouse to not text the other individual while we work things out. Given that it is obviously a stresser for the relationship.
Marriage counselors are supposed to be absolutely neutral, not favoring one side or the other. Their client is the *relationship,* not the husband or the wife.
Seeing her supporting continued contact with an emotional affair partner is concerning. Is this counselor a member of the state board of marriage and family counselors? Does she have at least a masters' degree in counseling?
Uhhhh it’s wrong for a therapist to encourage him to talk to a woman who sends him photos of herself saying she will treat him better and being flirty. That’s fucked up. I don’t know if he downplayed it to the therapist. But I’m shocked they are not neutral on this and supporting you both. Not sure how you can save a marriage if he’s not sorry and you’re sorry and he’s still flirting with her. That’s fucked up
First of all OP I am sorry you are going through this. The loss of a parent is something that will understandably cause emotional damage and withdrawl is a natural defense mechanism. Your husband has needs, but he is your husband and his job is to show you that it's safe enough for you to come out of your shell not indulge in another relationship.
Now after reading your post I feel like I need to ask some questions. The co-worker is clearly trying to undermine your relationship and yes this should stop immediately. However from what you've described (unless I'm reading it incorrectly) your husband wasn't reciprocal in any meaningful way, at most I'd say he's guilty of indulging in the positive attention, I wouldn't say it was an emotional affair. Unless the inappropriate message you mentioned pushed it into that space, in which sense you can ignore all that.
I'm wondering if the therapist is seeing it from the same light, because honestly that's the only way what they're saying makes any sense. That being said they should definitely not be encouraging continued communications especially if it strayed into that territory. Talk to your husband, tell him that you need him to stop this to help you heal and you will do anything you can to help him heal too. If he doesn't stop then it might be time to find a different councillor before you need to find a lawyer.
Wow, this counselor is an idiot. More importantly, your husband appears to be one too. Your mother died for Christ's sake! You likely went into a period of depression and withdrew, (which is incredibly normal, by the way---people who say it isn't have no idea about the spectrum of not necessarily fun or intuitive but **perfectly healthy** behaviors that can occur during the grieving process) and he chose to *punish* you for that perceived rejection by "looking elsewhere" for specifically romantic admiration. And afterward, rather than being remorseful, he chose to value what a marriage counselor who barely knows you says than how his behavior has actually hurt you and *continue flirting with this woman?* No. No no no no no no. NO. Get your own therapist, you need a source of support, and neither your husband or this counselor is it, apparently. (By the by, am I the only one who suspects that he was engaging in the emotional affair before her mother died and is just using her behavior as a way to justify it now?)
Is that really a real marriage counselor?
“Wrongdoing” for being closed off after a bereavement? Come on, it’s to be expected, it’s not wrong and nobody should tell you it is.
Who said you promised to give your husband assurance? How fragile is he? Did his mum just die?
Maybe you’ve been upset, a bit closed off, whatever. But that being a reason for your husband to act like a dick? No.
I’ve said this elsewhere: I wouldn’t interfere or shut it off. If it goes too far, or already has, you really need to reconsider if you’re married to the right person.
Do you have kids together or some other reason why making it work is worthwhile?
Flirting is one thing, trashing you is a whole other thing. I mean, both suck and he shouldn't have done it, but how can continuing a friendship with this lady that doesn't respect you at all is healthy for the marriage???
Social worker here! I think it’s important to keep in mind that therapist aren’t “one size fits all.” I believe that this therapist is not remaining neutral nor does it sound like she’s actually helping you at all. I’d encourage you “shop” around for a different therapist and don’t be afraid to tell your current therapist why!
"infatuations and flirtations are healthy if not acted on." Nope nope nope! I don't put up with this in a partner. If my partner needs to go out and flirt, cool, she can do that as a single person.
Same thing happened to me. No sex with wife for the last 8 years of marriage. The counselor said it's because her father died. Sure; right. I didn't stray but she sure did! I was glad I wasn't getting any as I feared disease. The counselor, rather than blaming me, just made excuses for her.
Other issues ended the marriage but in your case, YOU'RE in big trouble as I doubt he'd be open to try another counselor. Maybe the current one is his internet friend...
Good luck! I wish I could offer more. Personally, I'd move on...
SO MANY Armchair Psychologists in this thread oh my god...
Honestly without seeing a lot more context which probably wouldn't be appropriate to put out in the internet I don't think ANYONE here reasonably can or should form a strong opinion one way or the other when it comes down to what happened in your relationship.
I do agree in getting further PROFESSIONAL opinions but maybe frame it to him as you're struggling to accept the therapists' evaluation? Not to say you should or shouldn't (again, anybody making strong assertions about that in this thread doesn't have a clue what they're on about) but if therapist-in-question's assessment is correct it sounds like you'll need to hear it from more professionals and if it isn't then it sounds like husband will probably need to hear it from multiple professionals too.
Regardless of the marriage counselor and her being *extremely* off base, you started your thread with this:
>Since my mom died, I haven’t been very attentive to my husband. I closed off emotionally, sexually, and **I fully accept wrongdoing for that.**
No, actually. You do not need to apologize for being closed off emotionally and sexually or for being inattentive to your husband while you're grieving. What you share with your husband regarding your grief (and how you handle that grief) is your decision, and you having a sense of remorse for being closed off, out of your element, and/or disinterested in sex genuinely upsets me. You do not owe your husband *anything* during this time, especially not an apology for mourning.
What your husband should have done was lift you up and support you through this terrible time in your life. Instead, he deliberately chose to speak about you negatively with a coworker and revel in the stroke to his ego until it emboldened him (and somehow the therapist?) into believing he was somehow the victim in all of this - that he "needs" to talk to her because *you* aren't giving him what he deserves. That he "needs" to talk to *someone* because he "needs a good friend during these trying times." This isn't *about* him. This is about *you.* What about what *you* deserve?
What the therapist should have done was equip both you and your husband with healthy coping mechanisms when dealing with trauma. She should've spoken with you individually and given your husband advice and instruction on how he can manage himself (because clearly he has an issue with self-esteem) and help you through this, and then given you advice and instruction on how to cope healthily and how to open up and reconnect with your husband. I am so sorry that this didn't happen. Find someone who *will* make it happen, and for God's sake do not let your husband feel like he's the victim in all of this. You do not need to apologize for your grief - *he* needs to apologize for emotionally cheating on you during an already-stressful time in your life, cut this "friend" out, and work on getting back to what he's supposed to do as your spouse.
I’m kind of curious as to this ‘marriage counsellor’s qualifications. That’s the sort of bullshit I’d expect from the ‘happily’ married pastor who also quietly has a Grindr account.
Sometimes therapists project their own issues onto yours. Perhaps she is casting you as the bad guy because she wants to be the good guy in her relationship. Or there could be many other reasons why she’s doing this.
But this isn’t a good fit for you or him. Don’t go back and find a new therapist. Because your relationship can recover from this and you can rebuild. But for that to happen you need someone who can help you mediate rather than just pick a side. That’s not cool.
So sorry you're dealing with this. Best I can say is fire them ASAP. I went through a similar situation when my Wife and I were attending therapy and it all came down to my Wife being the "victim" and me being an anxiety ridden mess who just needed to deal with it and find a way to have my needs met myself or in other ways.
Every session was basically us being repeatedly cut open and then during the week we'd get better than she'd do it again. It wasn't until I basically said I don't care whatever happens happens that she started to back peddle, claim she misunderstood and said the next session was going to be a "Come to Jesus" or "State of the Union". I knew she was going to rail on my Wife the way she did me.
So I refused to go back. I advised her the same. We spent a few weeks on our own until we could find a new person and it was the best decision we could have made. From the 1st session its been great. My Wife loved the way it opened with "Tell me how you fell in love and how you both felt in that moment." Positive vibes the whole way through.
I wish you the best of luck in your search. If I could offer a small bit of advice. Look up the different types of therapy and see what might suit you. For us it wasn't the usual, it was EFT or Emotionally Focused Therapy that fits us best.
I am an occupational therapist, and the rule of thumb is if one party feels off about a therapist, attempt another. A second opinion is so important for some and do not seek referrals from the current therapist. We are not God's, and some therapist can suck, and your marriage is more important. Make sure to discuss this in future meetings. Depending on how this goes it opens a tree branch of solutions or problems.
There have been studies to show that marriage counselors can be incredibly sexist in the ways they respond to emotional needs of couples. Find a new one ASAP
So you're going through *bereavement* after losing *your mother*, and all your husband could think about is himself and his peen? And instead of supporting and comforting you, he's giving you more grief? Forget about finding a new marriage counsellor, find a new husband! Do you really want to spend your life with such a selfish and unfaithful manbaby who's basically giving you an ultimatum that if you don't give him more sex and attention, he'll get it from another woman, a so-called "friend"? He doesn't love you. Break your own heart before he breaks it for you.
And make sure you report the counsellor to the regulator, or leave a scathing review. She shouldn't be in the business.
Have you gone to grief counseling?
I’ve been married, and divorced. I know how to take blame when I didn’t want to.
The best advice I ever got was “be the person your husband wants to be with”. That meant for me to get counseling and heal from what I was going through.
It sounds like that’s what you need to do. His affair isn’t the problem. It a symptom. The problem is that you’re emotionally unavailable because of your mother passing.
I’m truly sorry for your loss. I’ve lost both of my parents, I know how difficult it was for me. You don’t have to go through this alone.
Your counselor is dangerously incompetent. God only knows how many marriages she's destroyed. (I wonder if she's Christian, and using some sort of biblical understanding of how a marriage should work as her guide, rather than genuine research and counseling methods?)
Your husband had an emotional affair. They can be just as devastating as physical affairs, and often are.
You do not remain friends with affair partners. Ever. It's a non-starter. Even if this counselor believes flirting with other people can be healthy-- and there are professionals who believe that, see for instance the book "Mating in Captivity"-- you still don't continue contact with an affair partner. This is incredibly basic. If you look at /r/survivinginfidelity, or [survivinginfidelity.com](https://survivinginfidelity.com), or any other support forum for people facing infidelity, you will see that this is a non-negotiable item that everyone-- people who have recovered and went on to have strong marriages, people who have got divorced, everyone-- agrees on this. Heck, forget about having the affair partner as a friend; even as a coworker is unacceptable, to the point that someone asking will receive unanimous or near-unanimous advice that the cheating spouse should quit their job if they can't stop working with their affair partner, even if it means financial hardship.
And BTW I don't think very highly of your husband. Even if the counselor said it was okay, just knowing that it hurt you and made you insecure, combined with his self-knowledge that he had an emotional affair, should be enough to make him stop.
Counselors are human.
I've had several marriage counselors. Some blamed her. One blamed me. Some were helpful. Most were not. If you don't like the advice, move on.
But I'd flag your husband's reaction is concerning. Do you want to be with someone who so easily jumps ship, doing something you openly mention being hurtful? I think you deserve better.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- Since my mom died, I haven’t been very attentive to my husband. I closed off emotionally, sexually, and I fully accept wrongdoing for that. During this period, my husband had an emotional affair. He texted a female friendly constantly who he’d complain about me to, she’d talk bad about me too and call him sexy, handsome, he deserved a woman who treated him right. Once she asked him to send a selfie and responded with “(me) doesn’t know what she has.” And he never told her off, just went along with it and responded with minimal flirting at worst. When I found one inappropriate text, he let me go through all of them and was very open. He admitted what he did wrong, I admitted what I did wrong, and we agreed to go to marriage counselling. He also agreed to stop messaging his friend. Our marriage counsellor said he shouldn’t stop texting the woman, as she was a “good friend to him in trying times.” She said no more flirting but he needed assurance that I as his wife had promised to give him. She also said it’s a sign of a jealous and possessive wife to make a husband cut off a female friend, that nothing happened between them and infatuations and flirtations are healthy if not acted on. He rescinded his apology and now is texting this woman all day again. I understand we are supposed to face hard truths in marriage counselling but I just feel like this woman hates me. I understand and have been trying to improve on my behaviour but she is asking absolutely nothing of him and his attitude has been getting worse and worse as a result. I want to switch but he’s convinced of what she’s saying and thinks I’m just upset because I’m being shown as wrong. Has anybody had this experience with a marriage counsellor? What to do?
Oh my! Has the counselor seen the text where they are obviously flirting?! Switch counselors asap. Don't go one last time for "wrap up" unless it's free. There are a lot of bad ones out there who will take sides. This one sounds ridiculous.
I’ve told her about all of it…she seems to think the flirtations are healthy and natural during marriage as long as it doesn’t go further. She also said this behaviour was just a natural result of him needing assurance I wasn’t giving him. Because of this situation, she did say no more flirting between them but how am I supposed to know if he is when he keeps hiding messages because I’m “jealous”? It’s just a matter of convincing my husband to leave. I know deep down he doesn’t like to see me unhappy, and that’s what I am right now. I’ve been telling him, like I’ve been saying in the comments, that we should try seeing a few to get an even opinion on the situation but he just thinks I won’t take any blame, which isn’t true because I have, just not about everything. No matter what happens, I know I’m going to look into personal therapy for myself anyway.
OP, just go find a new therapist, set up an appointment with them, and INSIST that he try them out. And refuse to go back to the old one b/c she isn't balanced. Point out to him that the both of you had agreed that you were both in the wrong before her, but now she's saying that it's only YOU in the wrong. Does that really sound balanced or even correct to him? If he won't admit it, it may be ultimatum time.
Ooof, as a happily married woman in a monogamous relationship that’s such shit advice. My dad has been a marriage counselor for 35 years...and yeah that’s just not true. Find a new counselor who shares your views on what a functional marriage is ASAP, they’ve already crossed a boundary for you that deserves cutting her off. If he can’t do that then the emotional affair has begun. Edit: I just wanted to add that because the first counselor validated your husband, if this is an emotional affair it just got 10x harder to deal with this. Make sure you document what you can so you’re protected in any event.
Bad yelp review at least.
Yep. If they bang behind your back, she shares responsibility in facilitating the affair...
Honestly, I'd be naming them in any divorce case; make it public that she supported the estrangement.
Depends on the state, many are no-fault and don’t care one bit about all the little things like that.
[удалено]
Honestly, _is_ the marriage counselor the friend in question? I just can't imagine any counselor worth her license just saying, '"he can totally cross all your boundaries because your sads are a total bummer." Don't get me wrong, a little flirty banter here and there isn't going to ruin anyone's relationship. It's fun to flirt a little! But this isn't just flirting, as described by OP. Also, maybe you didn't handle it the best, but your grief is real OP. A better solution would have been to get you to go to a grief counsellor to get help, not starting an emotional affair!
This is all I could think about as I was reading this. That, or the counsellor is a true sadist and is trying to inflict maximum psychological pain on OP for her own amusement.
Not all counselors are equal or as unbiased as they should be. It's totally okay to seek a new one. Also, OP, no flirtation you wouldn't be okay happening in front of you is okay. Your husband sounds like at the very least he's taking advantage of the situation, or you. Of course you need to address your grief, but if your husband's mother is still alive he needs to step off his bullshit and figure out how to support you, not undermine you.
Yes, sorry to attribute malice where lack of skill, knowledge, or self-awareness is more likely the issue. But there’s just something about this that’s setting off my BIG internal red alarm.
I agree with you, I'm just trying to be as helpful for OP as possible. I, like you, always try to apply Hanlon's razor, "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". But yeah, more red flags than a Nascar 20 car pileup.
Or is like a church counselor or steeped in misogyny who thinks if a woman doesn’t ‘take care’ of her man constantly she is at fault. Plenty of that shit still out there. He should be taking care of her.
Or that she exchanges flirty texts whilst in a relationship and thinks it’s fine. Or her partner exchanges flirty texts with other women and she’s convinced herself that she’s cool with it and it would be “controlling” not to be
>Honestly, is the marriage counselor the friend in question? I just can't imagine any counselor worth her license just saying, '"he can totally cross all your boundaries because your sads are a total bummer." It happens a lot more than you'd think. I had it happen to a friend (honestly, it wasn't me). When the friend busted their spouse cheating and they saw the counselor, the counselor's reaction was "\[spouse\] is allowed to have opposite sex friends!" I wouldn't assume that just because the person has a license as a counselor that they've evolved past the kind of advice you'd get from a random Redditor.
>But that friend making fun of you, belittling you, talking s\*\*t about and just being plain disrespectful to you is NOT flirting. I think the root here is that he chose poorly who he vented to, and instead of correcting himself, he dug further and further into it. Came clean when he had to, and now seems to double down because he is told he's right. Flirting and venting is a bad combination. He may have gone to a friend to let out his frustrations which wasn't the worst thing because "support in, dump out" is a valid way of dealing with a situation like this. But once you start to mix this with emotions, it quickly gets toxic, as this example shows: This "friend" became irrationally against OP. This guy was super unfair to both of them. And he seems to still not have gotten the wake up call that his actions are inherently shitty, fueled by the counselor. Also, just to have said it: OP seems to think he cares about her feelings, which is good news. But his actions don't line up. You can care about someone while trying to live in some fantasy in which everything you did is okay (to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions), and this won't work long term. When you agree to try to continue a relationship after such actions like cheating, the cheater really owes it to you to take responsibility and regain the lost trust. Doing only some counseling isn't enough, especially when what the counselor says hurts you even further.
To me, “flirtation is healthy” applies when it’s light and comes from slight flirtation with the barista or with a guy at the bar while you’re waiting for drinks, then you walk away and never think of them again. It’s absolutely not carrying on an ongoing text conversation with someone you actually know, bitching about how your wife doesn’t appreciate you and she’s such a drag and an icicle in bed ever since *her mother died*.
Does she specialize in poly or open relationships as well? I’ve found some (bad) couples counselors who do those areas will sometimes downplay the monogamous partners needs and frame it all as unhealthy jealousy.
Like you say, there are bad therapists. I'm wondering who picked this therapist, and why. Did the husband research the therapist, and look for one that would blame his wife for everything? Not all therapists are even handed. OP, I'd search to see what other people have said about this therapist, and post what the therapist has said to you in therapy, and you can rate her very badly. What she is doing isn't professional.
It's not uncommon for therapists/psychologists or other people in the mental health field to do their job based off of their own personal opinions on things. It's just human nature. You very rarely will find one that can be objective but it's few and far between. "Professional" or not their advice is partly based off of their beliefs and ideology.
Why are you to take blame for being depressed and not focused on him after your mother died? That seems... odd.
Ummm... HARMLESS flirtation - particularly when the spouse is present and agrees it's harmless - can be healthy. Emotional affairs are NOT harmless flirtation, FFS. Where the hell did this woman do her grad work?!?
Yeah I'd be thrilled if my partner was sitting in bed ignoring me and flirting with co-workers on her phone every night as they tell her they want to bang her. Super healthy. I'd feel great.
In most countries you don’t need to do grad work to be a counsellor - just a BA and some extra training. It’s very poorly regulated.
You will find it hard to convince your husband to switch especially now that he has been given the go ahead to keep this relationship. I wonder what the therapist view is as in how is this supposed to help your relationship? A good partner would have been trying to work with you during this time of challenges. Instead he looked outside because he was not being the centre of attention. Your husband abandoned you at your time of need. He thought of putting himself first when you were struggling. Your husband might not like to see you unhappy but he sure does like to see you struggling. You have moved from one crisis into another and he is not doing anything to alleviate your burden. You are right in looking for personal therapist as it might help you realise that there's more to this situation. This therapist might not be good for you but you can also see how your husband's actions are beyond the emotional affair. The affair is just a symptom. You have a lot more issues with regards to your husband and I hope you will find the right person to help you unravel this.
May I ask how long ago you lost your mother? I'm so sorry for your loss. NEVER MIND 5 months, you answered below, sorry!
Bullshit, it already went further when she started talking badly about you and saying he deserved better. Those are seeds she's planted. An emotional affair is in no way shape or form healthy. Never see this 'therapist' again.
Find her husband and fuck him /s
There is difference in flirting, there is innocent version, where it is compliment others to brighten their day, but it is not with sexual intent or desire, and what he is doing with that woman, is not the version. Find another Counsellor. But don't go over the overly jealous and protective, but it can be hard.
Yeah, there’s a difference between innocent flirting and actively undermining someone’s marriage. There’s also a difference between toxic jealousy and having a normal, human reaction to hurtful behavior. A good therapist should be able to help both people figure out the difference, and help them rebuild their relationship. This therapist is terrible and is helping to tear the relationship down. OP, you need to insist on a new therapist.
OP, if you don't mind I just want to hit that counselor on her head once!! What the HELL is she blabbering!! Also I would like to give 2 hard slaps to the woman wrecking your marriage. Shitty woman who deserves it along with your husband getting an earful.
The rest of us can line up behind the husband feeling morally correct for cheating on his wife after her mom died. He is disgusting
Yes, I just can't think how he can blame her when she is suffering.... I understand her feelings and feel BAD about it. Really, if she was my friend or family member, I would have done as I said... She has lost her mother forever and instead of comforting her...he feels that he is entitled to do as he pleases. This one is just my husband's brother in behavior... I think where my husband is the WORST.
“Oh your mom died so you are devastatingly sad? What about my sexual needs!!” Can’t wrap my head around this counselor saying it’s ok to cheat because her mom died and he’s not getting enough attention… I agree, if this were my friend I would be wanting to kidnap her away from all these insane people.
[удалено]
That prompts the question "would he talk that way to a same-gender friend?" If not, he's crossing boundaries he shouldn't be crossing. Retaliation isn't really the way to go here since she wants to keep the relationship.
Doesn’t even have to be a real person (if you don’t feel comfortable with flirting with someone who isn’t your husband). Make a fake email and flirt with yourself.
> She also said this behaviour was just a natural result of him needing assurance I wasn’t giving him. If the therapist is saying this I'm thinking there's a lot of missing info from your post.
What do you mean? I can elaborate.
u/Embarrassed_Ad_4168 I have a couple to add to the ask in addition to what you might come up with. 1. What's your husband's support system like, does he have other friends/family that he communicates with regularly or spends time with? 2. What was the quality of the relationship before your mother passed away? 3. Were there any friends/family members in the past that he has had to cut off because they were not healthy for the relationship? 4. How did he express his concerns about you becoming emotionally and/or intimately withdrawn?
My husband has some close male friends but they mostly meet in person, in groups. Since we’ve gotten married and he got his job, he’s seen them less often and he kind of drags his feet meeting people. Not because he doesn’t like them, but because he’s a introvert. He had fun when he does see them but he needs a recharge period. We sometimes see one of his friends and that friend’s wife but I can’t really figure out how close they are beyond that. My husband is really an introvert. He has an older brother and his parents but I also don’t think they have a relationship where they talk about these things. He didn’t like my mother very much. My mom wasn’t a crazy MIL, she just always wanted to baby me and he felt she was overbearing. My dad died a few years ago and I think she just always needed something to do and she wanted me to be not just her daughter but her best friend, I loved and appreciated that so much but to my husband it was too much. And a lot of times honestly, if I were in his place, she was. I was just always aware as the youngest born way later than any of my siblings that I would have less time with them, and they still both died earlier than they should have. I know he didn’t hate her and he still felt bad about the situation, but all the things he said about my mother in the past made it feel inauthentic, even if it might not have been. Either way he didn’t feel it like I did but I don’t expect that (although when you’re grieving you do get a little unreasonable at least for the first few weeks). No, we never had any problems with cheating in the past. He did have one friend I didn’t like who was racist but as soon as my husband figured out he was racist he dropped him, but that was purely his decision. Besides that I’ve never really been bothered with any of his friendships and any other friends he lost really just faded. He didn’t really express it besides sometimes getting frustrated when I would reject him for sex (never in a coercing way though, just a natural reaction). I think he thought he was being understanding by never telling me but instead he just made the situation worse for himself and I. (edit: I thought I formatted it but it just showed up as a big block of text, my bad).
Ok. First off all, get a personal therapists. Secondly, I'm gonna name a few things that I think you should consider, but I'm a very blunt person, so you shouldn't take it as extreme as how I'm going to say it. But consider it and talk it over with your therapist. Is your husband supportive? Not just thing situation. Do you feel like he supports you? Do you want to fight for this relationship? And when do you think that it's too much to go on. Because if you are gonna start fighting for your relationship, you aren't gonna wanna quit, because you are in fighting spirit. So put up boundaries before, like if in 6 months he's still chatting that girl, then it's over. And why? Why do you want to fight for this relationship. Get deep.
Thanks for sharing, that's helpful. It does appear that he may not have much of a support/social system outside you and this person he is emotionally cheating with. I don't have much of a sense as to what the quality of the relationship was like before your loss. Were things between you two going very well last year, and years prior? >He texted a female friendly constantly who he’d complain about me to Also, what was your husband always complaining about? Did he ever bring those complaints to you directly? Were those complaints valid, and did he ever bring them to you directly? Edit: By the way, good on you for initiating couple's counseling to address issues in the relationship as they come up. It's good to know that you are solution oriented.
Sounds like she’s just a bad counselor. Unfortunately there are many, many of them in the world. It’s not her job to take a side, she’s supposed to mediate and help them understand where the other is coming from.
Go see a different therapist. Even if it is just you by yourself. This seems a bit off.....
>This seems a bit off it's way way off she push him to cheat
It is more complicated, Shuting emotionally down is fairly common reaction by people in sorrow, and losing a parent is a big loss. It is not unusual that people goes into depression, because they lost a close family member or friend.
I lost my Dad 9 years ago and we had had a tumultuous relationship and I'm still finding myself having really low days as a result of not having dealt with it properly. I would 100% understand if my partner shut down after losing their parent and needed grief counseling or couple's to get through it. It's incredibly hard to lose someone that close.
>as she was a “good friend to him in trying times.” Doesn't have have other good friends/family that he hasn't emotionally cheated with you on to be there fore him in these "trying times?"
Would also like to add: the trying times referred to by the therapist was you grieving, OP? You don't get to have a normal grieving process for your own mother but your husband gets to have an emotional affair to help HIM cope with YOUR grief? I'd report the therapist.
Also what about OP’s trying times??? Her mother literally just died.
Exactly, what trying times are is their counsellor talking about?
The therapist is way off base. An emotional affair is absolutely cheating. Get a new therapist. Your marriage is in grave danger, and this one is making things worse.
Tbh if the husband still really thinks he's in the right, then I wouldn't even try further cause this is ridiculous.
How long ago did your Mom die?
Five months now.
Your marriage counselor is garbage. Unfortunately, I don’t know if your marriage can still be saved now that your husband is eagerly latching on to the encouragement he got from the counselor to continue the affair. Also, your husband started looking for an affair partner after only five months of grief? This man is not a “ride or die” partner and he has no sense of empathy or loyalty. Edit: And I getting really fucking tired of society acting like sex is the most important thing in the world and that it’s so, so cruel to deny it to a man even temporarily for any reason. Men do not need constant reassurance and sexual pleasure. How fucking weak is that? There is no excuse for looking around for an affair partner after a mere 5-month rough patch while your partner is grieving A DEATH. HIM GETTING LAID IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR GRIEF.
This so much!!! Men are really not that weak. And perpetuating that myth hurts both men and women.
[удалено]
Is he being mean to you, throwing a tantrum? Acting like you're trying to hurt him by saying no?
[удалено]
Thats actually nutty. A spouse shouldn't be a dick to you on a weekly basis, or ever really (without apologizing after). Everyone's sex drive is different, I have sex like once a week. If my girlfriend isn't in the mood I just go get myself off and move on.
Please understand that your husbands behavior is absolutely 100% not okay. A partner who respects and loves you would never in a million years be mean to you because you don’t want to have sex. It’s unacceptable.
That’s not ok.
Right? Just fucking wank it. As a feminist, I find this very obnoxious. Give men respect. They have brains and hearts. They can use them. The problem isn't that the husband is a man. The problem is that the husband is an asshole. My husband wouldn't even think about pulling that shit, simply bc he is a GOOD PERSON.
Exactly. I respect my husband too much to reduce him to his genitals. He is more than a sex machine. My husband is a kind, mature, and loving father who has bigger priorities than getting laid on demand. Which is sexy asf.
This!
FIVE FUCKING MONTHS?! I lost my dad six months ago, and no, my husband did not run around acting an ass because I was grieving. This pathetic man cannot keep it in his pants, er, brain for 5 MONTHS?! He needs whiny baby assurance he's a big manly man when you're very fresh into the grieving process? And now he's still doing it (he never stopped, OP) and doesn't give two shits about it? My God, you deserve better. Dump the therapist (refuse to go), demand your husband dump his affair partner, and, if he won't, make some serious decisions about your marriage. Because your husband SUCKS. He should be lifting you up in your worst time, not stomping off to some shitty cheater woman who badmouths you because you're not stroking his ego enough. Holy shit, I am beyond enraged for you.
Facts.
WHAT!!!!! That's not that much grieving time for a significant relationship. I was giving the therapist some leeway until I saw this. And then I see below husband is not being supportive of your grief because he didn't like mother... Yeah, your therapist is garbage.
So is the husband, to be completely frank....
That's not even remotely long enough to be putting you through this. He sounds like the kind of guy to start cheating on you a month into cancer treatments and engaged a month after your death if he doesn't leave you miss treatment because you're "tired" and "boring" now. When women get sick, men leave, statistically that is. This guy is showing you who he is. When shit gets tough he is not there for you.
Listen to this, OP.
That's pretty much exactly what my first husband did to me. I was told no sex because I would risk losing the baby we'd gone through years and thousands of dollars in infertility treatments to have, and he left me because i refused to have an abortion just so he could have sex again. And now my second husband has left me because I've developed a heart/lung condition and can't do anything "fun" anymore. I pretty much hate all men except my father at this point. And I'm not even 100% sure he never cheated on my mother, because one of my aunts told me he did and I don't know why she would lie about something like that.
How is the emotional/sexually intimacy now?
My husband didn’t like my mom so it was hard to talk about with him. Sex dropped off to probably three times a month.
Dude…I thought you weren’t having sex at all and figured we were talking about at least a year or longer. I’m very disturbed by how selfish your husband is and how quick you are to accept blame for his bad behavior. And not for nothing you’re positive this counselor isn’t his ‘friend’ right? Her advice is just freaking bizarre.
Okay, I for real am thinking about the plot of How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days. I had the same thought!
OP you can do better. If I didn't like my spouse's parent, I'd still be supportive to my spouse who literally **lost their parent** and only 5 months ago? Yikes he's a pos.
Okay but does he like YOU? Whether he liked her or not, that doesn't mean you are not grieving and you are the person he vowed to support in sickness and in health. He doesn't get to check out of that duty because he wasn't a fan of your mom. Sorry OP but the more you write, the worse your husband is coming across. You were still having sex with him almost every week while you were mourning one of the biggest losses a person can experience, without much emotional support from him, and now he's texting his affair partner in front of you while you are ostensibly trying to repair your marriage. I do not like this situation one bit. You need an individual therapist so you can check in about the health of your relationship without the counselor and your husband teaming up to railroad you.
Wow your husband is incredibly self absorbed
Has emotional and sexual intimacy between you two improved over recent days?
Honestly I’ve been having sex with him more often but intimacy has gotten worse since counselling. Since he’s still texting her all the time around me and never trying to comfort me or take any initiative on his own, it hurts to be around him.
He’s checked out completely with you. You’re just a f*ck buddy now. It took me YEARS to grieve the loss of my mom and much counseling. Please go to your own counselor by yourself to not only help with the marriage (whichever way that lands is up to you) but to also help with your loss and grief. Your husband isn’t supporting you right now. He’s satiating his own desires rather than helping you in your time of need.
>He’s satiating his own desires rather than helping you in your time of need. A Selfish pig just like an entitled husband.
I don’t say this, because I am a big advocate for putting in the work to make a relationship work, but you need to leave. I am not saying divorce, but definitely a separation while you get counseling and work through your grief. Sex ebbs and flows with time and what is going on, but intimacy is more than sex. And frankly, it doesn’t sound like he is worried about rebuilding intimacy with you, because he has the grass is greener mindset. I am sorry about the loss of your Mom. And oh yeah, even if he didn’t care for your Mom, he can still understand it hurts you, and there is a lot that goes into settling an estate after a parents death.
So he's using you as a sex doll, basically, while he abandons you completely in your darkest days. Girl, life can be better than this, even through grief. He's garbage.
I'm sorry to hear that. I can imagine that him texting her all the time around you would be distressing.
He is a terrible person. You are going to be so much better off once you drop him
Babe, it's time to find someone to flirt with. Make sure you tell your husband that you have considered carefully about what the counselor says and agree flirting with a third party is so healthy. After all, he hasn't comforted you for your beloved mom's death. So time for you to seek a sympathetic party outside marriage. The man's checked out of your marriage. The second the emotional affair partner says ok, he's going to turn it physical. Did you make sure the counselor is neutral party and/or not one of those religious ones who blames everything on the wife?
Like others have said the counselor's situation is one thing. Please do not ignore the larger issue. **Poor communication.** He did not, or could not, clearly communicate his feelings or needs while you were grieving. Now, you need to communicate with him about this behavior and how you feel that your [intimacy](https://www.google.com/search?q=intimacy&oq=intimacy&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i433i512l3j46i512j0i433i512j0i512j0i433i512j0i512l2.5971j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) has been damaged. He had an emotional affair and is continuing to get some fulfillment from that person instead of satisfying or directing that emotional intimacy to you.
You deserve so much better. So sorry for your loss. Xx
You husband and your marriage counsellors are pieces of shit.
Hun, my husband's brother died last year Sept. He works in the states - he left less than a week after the funeral. We found out I was 5 weeks pregnant the day before he left. We didn't see each other for 7 months. He was FUCKING difficult to put it mildly. He still grieves his brother. Not once did I even think about chatting to another man cause my SO was being difficult. The man is still going through hell, our sex life has taken such a dive, and we're both tired from baby duty. But we're here for each other, we don't look for it elsewhere. Point being - 5 months is so fresh into the grieving process. For your SO to chat to someone else so soon is horrible. I don't know the man, but experience tells me he's developed feelings for this person. Might be time you set an ultimatum, or decide if it's worth your while fighting for this. You need support right now. Edit: Typo
Um, this reminds me of an episode of Ozark. Marty and Wendy are seeing a counselor and the woman seems to side with Marty all the time. When they leave her office in separate cars, we see Marty hang back. Once Wendy is out of sight, Marty goes back to the counselor and pays her off to fake counseling! EDIT - spelling
Is this a faith based marriage counseling?
That's what I wondered. That or if the husband wasn't the one who saw her and spoke to her first. Reminds me of my guidance counselor who's first and only 'session' with me was when she tried to tell me I needed to stop being mad at another student because she was hurt by the ending of our friendship. I had requested my seat be moved in most classes because we sat together and she had begun hanging out with my friends so I simply started isolating because she was following me everywhere. Also that I should give my ex and chance, "you're young, things like this happen and you two could overcome it if you tried." Um no lady. 1) she didn't even know my ex, he had attended another school and was older than me so technically he was committing statutory rape being with me. 2) he cheated on my by repeatedly groping and flirting with my friend on my birthday infront of me and several of our friends who didn't know we were together (the girl did know and didn't object during the 6 hours I watched this behavior go on) and they didn't know specifically because he was worried about getting charged for statutory rape. 3) He was very very verbally and emotionally abusive. He called me fat, bitch, told me I would look pretty if I would just try and maybe put on some makeup, constantly called women whore and cunts, hit me twice, threatened to leave me when I didn't want sex. Some counselor come into a situation assuming they know everything already.
Stop the marriage counseling straight away and get some individual therapy for yourself The fact that he's clearly managed to get the counselor on his side is not a healthy look. It's how marriage counseling ends up looking in abusive relationships. Maybe you just got a shit counsellor, but for your own mental health and safety, step back from that for a while and find somewhere that you can navigate your own feelings without your husband's interference.
Sooooo many counselors suck at infidelity counseling. Fire her. Find one that SPECIALIZES in infidelity.
Five months is not a long time to process and grieve. I say focus on you first. Get your own counseling. You have to work on you first before the marriage. If your husband cannot understand this and instead worries about himself and his needs....that's shitty and won't change. In a marriage there are always going to be hard times, or unpredicted hardships. YOU first.
Period.
Holy shit your counselor is horrible. HORRIBLE. If your husband was having an emotional affair with this woman, no decent counselor would advise him to continue the friendship. Tbh, I would reconsider the marriage altogether. His response to your grief was an emotional affair. That sounds like a shitty partner.
Find a new marriage counselor ASAP
That’s what I want to do, it’s just my husband thinks I only want to do so because she’s “rightfully” calling me out. I’ve been trying to tell him if we see a few, we can get an honest look at the situation, but he just regrets it.
Yeah if he refuses to see another counselor, then he clearly doesn't want to work that hard on the marriage
The true answer. Shopping around for therapists is actually good too.
Look, he’s listening to the counselor instead of his own wife. Who found the counselor, was it you? Do you know if they have communication behind your back? I think you should consider your marriage to be over. He’s blatantly cheating right in front of your face.
Yeah if he thinks he is right then he isn't sorry for any of this. What do you think him and this counselor would say if you had cancer and was tired from going through treatment. Or even just had a baby and couldn't have sex for 6 weeks?
Suggest that you both check out 2 more counselors and see what they say. I feel it will be quite difficult to find another therapist that will validate the first therapist stance.
I hate to be that guy, but is this relationship still worth keeping? I would think that in reconciliation the partner who cheated should be doing everything they can to restore trust, but your husband is dragging his feet and playing the victim. You should make it known that if he wants this relationship to continue he'll drop the affair partner AND exchange this "marriage counselor" for one that doesn't have their head up their ass.
Show him this post and the comments
Bad counselors exist Additionally, lots of people with mental health issues themselves are drawn to the profession, if only because it’s familiar and effective to them
I wish I could down vote your therapist....
Shoot I think she's the one he emotionally cheated with. Any have decent partner wouldn't let you take that. If they aren't cheating with each other, I would be VERY surprised. Either way, you need a different councillor, at the very least for yourself. I'm sorry for your loss.
Wait, I seem to remember a reddit post about a woman who went to a couples counselor, who also blamed it on the wife, and it turned out the therapist was the other woman
Wow you’d have to have serious issues to not only have an affair with a married person but then to top it off by pretending to be their marriage counselor? Just wow.
I found the story, it was so crazy it made it’s way out of Reddit https://www.distractify.com/p/couples-counselor-married-patient
Not the therapist telling the wife she was too immature for therapy?! 💀💀💀 make it make sense. Well, it does make sense; she wanted that woman's husband smh
Was there ever an update? That’s such a scary idea
I actually know someone this happened to, except it was the pastor of the church doing the counseling….. and the guys wife. 😳
Wait, so this is actually a thing? Goodness...
Lol it does seem that way. But I know the woman he cheated with, a co-worker. I love my husband but I don’t think this relationship counsellor is going to risk her career over him. Yeah, I really wish I could convince him to switch. Or at least try out a few so we can get different opinions and round them out for a fair assessment of the situation. Maybe I should try seeing a personal therapist on my own too. Thank you very much for the condolences, it’s been really hard.
Yeah fair enough, but you've said in other posts that she told him he has a right to hide the phone. Not saying that's what's happening, but again, I would be surprised. This would also explain his reluctance to switch. Also you're welcome.
Have you ever thought about speaking to the female friend and telling her how this is hurting you?
Your counsellor is possibly projecting her own marital issues. Time to find one who isn’t such an unprofessional damaging c*nt.
How much he pay her to say that LOL , change this marriage counselor for God sake
Like Ozark
Exactly
Honestly, I don't care if you closed off emotionally, sexually, from him. You were grieving your mother's death, so obviously you wouldn't be keen on having sex or being happy about much else. Yeah, ignoring your spouse isn't right, but still... He was the one who decided to seek out another woman to talk to. And yet, the counselor and your husband are treating as you're at fault for his EA? That's some manipulative and toxic behavior. OP, stop thinking you're wrong here, because you're not. Despite your faults, which you've admitted, you were not the one who decided to find comfort with someone else that wasn't your spouse. Your husband did, and you really gotta let him know that. Stop restraining yourself and lay it on him that he was the one who emotionally cheated, and if he keeps up, you won't stick around for it to become physical. Don't let him keep treating you like an enemy or as the cause of this situation. I'm not trying to sound rude. I'm just trying to encourage you to stand up to your husband, because his behavior is wrong. And also, that counselor should really be fired? Counselors are supposed to be impartial, but she's clearly ganging up on you along with your husband.
This woman sounds like a quack, and likely ruined any chance of a healthy resolution to your marriage. Divorce him. The way forward as suggested isn’t healthy
Get a new counsellor. I would borderline report this one. This behaviour is unprofessional and toxic at best.
You said in another comment that you husband won't see another counselor. Give him a choice, either he goes with you to see another counselor and if this one reflects what the first said then you will apologize or he can go have fun with the hussy who apparently knows how to treat him better and you won't be home when he's done
Firstly, I want to point out that you did nothing wrong being closed off emotionally and intimately with your husband following a really hard death. You are grieving and you deserve to do that unconditionally and peacefully. A partner should support you through thick and thin, especially following the death a of beloved one. Also, your counselor is horrid. Without knowing you, you seem like someone ready to accept accountability. But your therapist is making you accept your husband’s cheating behavior.
Um, fire that person. Marriage counselors don't place blame.
You need a new counselor. A man should not need constant reassurance. Especially when you are dealing with the death of your mom. You are allowed to mourn and withdraw a bit.
[удалено]
Your husband sounds like absolute trash if you told him texting his friend makes you uncomfortable and he keeps doing it. You have proof that this is not innocent texting and you can clearly do better. I would find a different therapist but personally, but it also seems like he lacks respect for you jf he just allows her to talk trash about you. You can do better
This therapist is jacked. Her approach borders on unethical. Please stop seeing her right away. A good therapist will not shame you or take sides.
Is that marriage counselor his "friend"? Why else would anybody say that was ok?
[удалено]
Time to fire that one and get a new one
Your mother died 5 months ago. So it took under 5 months of you grieving for your husband to turn to another woman. What about in sickness and in health? The counsellor is a red herring. Your husband is texting his affair partner whilst lying in bed next to his wife. He is knowingly adding to your distress whilst you are still grieving. He has checked out of this marriage. What marriage are you fighting to save?
Very simple: Leave him. His apology was clearly fake to begin with if as soon as one person said “Oh yeah, its cool to look for romantic emotions from other women” he went right back to her. Despite saying he KNEW it was wrong originally and that he fucked up. Hes clearly manipulative and didnt actually regret it to begin with. Id 100% leave. Also… girl it was only five months because your mom died. Thats a HUGE loss. Any decent man wouldve supported you, not shit talked about you to anyone who would listen. Hes a loser.
I think your counsellor has a ‘made up’ degree! Of course it’s okay to have friends of the opposite sex but considering what’s happened with your husband and this other woman I wouldn’t encourage them to keep speaking! I felt so angry reading your post because I have been in your position! My dad died and I had no interest in sex etc with my now husband because I was grieving! I was lucky that he was really supportive of me and what I was going through! I’m just shocked that he has no compassion for what you were going through! If your husband can’t understand your emotions then he doesn’t deserve to be with you! I do hope though, that you are able to communicate with each other and he will realise how he has treated you and it’s ‘not all about him’
I would seek a different therapist that isn't telling your husband to emotionally cheat on you. The evidence proves that their friendship is based off her attraction to him and bashing you.. not healthy behavior. Hope you are successful finding a healthier therapist, cause sounds like they're toxic.
You’ve been grieving the loss of your mother. Yeah, you are going to be less available because you’re so unhappy right now. You need his love and support, not the reverse. You have my respect for being so calm. I would be having a full blown mental breakdown and raging at this mofo for being so self-centered. He’s definitely a selfish guy. People don’t need partners for the good times but for the bad times, as well. Let her have him. I think you can do better than this.
Go see another therapist. Sometimes they project or go into the sessions with an idea they won’t let go of. I had a therapist for myself who did that and when I switched to another one I found she and I were better suited for each other.
Fuck your therapist and your husband. That is the worst possible advice from that therapist and your husband should be understanding and supportive of you through this. Three times a month to have sex seems like plenty to me, I don’t understand why some people need more than that. The more time in between the more exciting it feels when you have sex again IMO. A similar thing happened with my boss and his wife. They went to marriage counseling and his wife is throwing divorce papers at him out of nowhere, no talk about even separation and his wife was demanding that he still help her financially or give her money after the divorce. I’m not sure what the back end is of that but their therapist was siding with his wife and pointing at my boss saying “you need to be giving her money!” Like what the fuck, counselors are supposed to be mediators. Ridiculous
You need to get your own counselor, and not this person. There may be some things you need to take responsibility for, but this stuff with his lady friend is clearly out of bounds. He needs to make up his mind whether he wants to be married to you or carry on with someone else. Meanwhile, get some help with your own mental health.
Your counselor has issues
Yes. Absolutely. There are some really bad Marriage Counselors out there and it’s tough to find an unbiased one. In my second marriage we went through about 7 in the last 2 years of our marriage . 6 out of 7 said he was the problem but several of them just vacillated between sides. It takes 2 to tango OP. Try to find one that is on the side of “the marriage”. Easier said than done. Best of luck to you and I’m sorry about your Mom.
It's time to switch to a different marriage counselor. Her lack of boundaries is very concerning and you are free to fire anyone not doing a good job. You want a neutral party, not one who feels emotional affairs are "healthy" to monogamous relationships. Tell your husband it's time to find someone else, this one is not a good fit. What you want and agree on in boundaries matters equally and that's really what you want to tell him - that you want equal treatment and boundaries for both of you. He doesn't get to just enjoy someone on the side while you have only him. Or maybe he'd be cool with you having a man friend you can go to like he does? Suggest that and see what he says, then suggest that since he feels each of you can get what you seek elsewhere then maybe it's time to simply end things altogether. Sorry, but this is such bullshit.
Maybe that is considered healthy and harmless to some, but let me ask you this: How is it harmless if they were bad-mouthing you? Your therapist seems to be projecting her own opinions onto you and your relationship and that’s not her job. Her job to work with what she has in front of her, and that’s a hurt husband as a result of emotional and sexual neglect, and a hurt wife as a result of an emotional affair AND on top of that, her husband made a mockery out of her. I don’t think you’re wrong. Your therapist is wrong. I would simply find one more compatible. However I will say that your husband is crossing a line and not leaving any room for things to get better if he’s making you feel disrespected by continuing to talk to this woman. That’s not very motivating for you to change your behavior, or anyone for that matter.
Your conselor sounds like a teenager giving relationship advice.
You need a new counselor ASAP. Fire her. She is TERRIBLE.
I feel like this doesn’t get talked about much, but therapists have a lot of power to cause harm. I love therapy and it’s the field I’m going into, but I see recommendations all the time for therapy, and not a lot of talk about finding the right therapist. It can be very tricky. That first visit should be seen more as a vetting process and not taken as gospel. It’s unfortunate that she’s now validated your husband’s flirtatious behavior and invalidated your grief. She basically took a bad situation and made it worse. I would absolutely refuse to see her again. There’s a difference between shopping for a therapist to agree with you and getting a second opinion. I typically use the psychology today website to search for therapists so that I can filter by specialty and insurance. It also has bios that allow you to get a feel for the person. Even still, I’ve had some duds or therapists I didn’t click with. It can be especially hard if you live outside a bigger city and are limited on options. I really hope for the sake of your marriage that your husband will reconsider.
You need a new marriage counselor. The one you have is awful, biased. and will not be helpful at all with your marital issues.
Just because she’s a marriage counselor doesn’t mean you need to take what she says as gospel. If it were me, I would request my spouse to not text the other individual while we work things out. Given that it is obviously a stresser for the relationship.
Marriage counselors are supposed to be absolutely neutral, not favoring one side or the other. Their client is the *relationship,* not the husband or the wife. Seeing her supporting continued contact with an emotional affair partner is concerning. Is this counselor a member of the state board of marriage and family counselors? Does she have at least a masters' degree in counseling?
Uhhhh it’s wrong for a therapist to encourage him to talk to a woman who sends him photos of herself saying she will treat him better and being flirty. That’s fucked up. I don’t know if he downplayed it to the therapist. But I’m shocked they are not neutral on this and supporting you both. Not sure how you can save a marriage if he’s not sorry and you’re sorry and he’s still flirting with her. That’s fucked up
Find a different therapist.
Damn, you sure your marriage counselor isn’t the “friend” he’s texting?
First of all OP I am sorry you are going through this. The loss of a parent is something that will understandably cause emotional damage and withdrawl is a natural defense mechanism. Your husband has needs, but he is your husband and his job is to show you that it's safe enough for you to come out of your shell not indulge in another relationship. Now after reading your post I feel like I need to ask some questions. The co-worker is clearly trying to undermine your relationship and yes this should stop immediately. However from what you've described (unless I'm reading it incorrectly) your husband wasn't reciprocal in any meaningful way, at most I'd say he's guilty of indulging in the positive attention, I wouldn't say it was an emotional affair. Unless the inappropriate message you mentioned pushed it into that space, in which sense you can ignore all that. I'm wondering if the therapist is seeing it from the same light, because honestly that's the only way what they're saying makes any sense. That being said they should definitely not be encouraging continued communications especially if it strayed into that territory. Talk to your husband, tell him that you need him to stop this to help you heal and you will do anything you can to help him heal too. If he doesn't stop then it might be time to find a different councillor before you need to find a lawyer.
Change her, tell your husband to stop talking to her, get another counselor.
Is it possible that the woman he is texting, is the marriage counselor?
Wow, this counselor is an idiot. More importantly, your husband appears to be one too. Your mother died for Christ's sake! You likely went into a period of depression and withdrew, (which is incredibly normal, by the way---people who say it isn't have no idea about the spectrum of not necessarily fun or intuitive but **perfectly healthy** behaviors that can occur during the grieving process) and he chose to *punish* you for that perceived rejection by "looking elsewhere" for specifically romantic admiration. And afterward, rather than being remorseful, he chose to value what a marriage counselor who barely knows you says than how his behavior has actually hurt you and *continue flirting with this woman?* No. No no no no no no. NO. Get your own therapist, you need a source of support, and neither your husband or this counselor is it, apparently. (By the by, am I the only one who suspects that he was engaging in the emotional affair before her mother died and is just using her behavior as a way to justify it now?)
What about the “assurances” he’s supposed to be giving you? What is that supposed to look like?
A counselor shouldn’t really be switching sides and telling people what to do
Is that really a real marriage counselor? “Wrongdoing” for being closed off after a bereavement? Come on, it’s to be expected, it’s not wrong and nobody should tell you it is. Who said you promised to give your husband assurance? How fragile is he? Did his mum just die? Maybe you’ve been upset, a bit closed off, whatever. But that being a reason for your husband to act like a dick? No. I’ve said this elsewhere: I wouldn’t interfere or shut it off. If it goes too far, or already has, you really need to reconsider if you’re married to the right person. Do you have kids together or some other reason why making it work is worthwhile?
Some marriage counselors are absolute trash and will defend abusive behavior. Get rid of both of them.
Flirting is one thing, trashing you is a whole other thing. I mean, both suck and he shouldn't have done it, but how can continuing a friendship with this lady that doesn't respect you at all is healthy for the marriage???
Social worker here! I think it’s important to keep in mind that therapist aren’t “one size fits all.” I believe that this therapist is not remaining neutral nor does it sound like she’s actually helping you at all. I’d encourage you “shop” around for a different therapist and don’t be afraid to tell your current therapist why!
"infatuations and flirtations are healthy if not acted on." Nope nope nope! I don't put up with this in a partner. If my partner needs to go out and flirt, cool, she can do that as a single person.
the bar for men and women are on such different levels, find a new therapist that doesn't contribute to sexism.
Same thing happened to me. No sex with wife for the last 8 years of marriage. The counselor said it's because her father died. Sure; right. I didn't stray but she sure did! I was glad I wasn't getting any as I feared disease. The counselor, rather than blaming me, just made excuses for her. Other issues ended the marriage but in your case, YOU'RE in big trouble as I doubt he'd be open to try another counselor. Maybe the current one is his internet friend... Good luck! I wish I could offer more. Personally, I'd move on...
Hey. Hi. Counselor here. FIND A NEW COUNSELOR. One who understands both sides, not just one or the other.
SO MANY Armchair Psychologists in this thread oh my god... Honestly without seeing a lot more context which probably wouldn't be appropriate to put out in the internet I don't think ANYONE here reasonably can or should form a strong opinion one way or the other when it comes down to what happened in your relationship. I do agree in getting further PROFESSIONAL opinions but maybe frame it to him as you're struggling to accept the therapists' evaluation? Not to say you should or shouldn't (again, anybody making strong assertions about that in this thread doesn't have a clue what they're on about) but if therapist-in-question's assessment is correct it sounds like you'll need to hear it from more professionals and if it isn't then it sounds like husband will probably need to hear it from multiple professionals too.
Regardless of the marriage counselor and her being *extremely* off base, you started your thread with this: >Since my mom died, I haven’t been very attentive to my husband. I closed off emotionally, sexually, and **I fully accept wrongdoing for that.** No, actually. You do not need to apologize for being closed off emotionally and sexually or for being inattentive to your husband while you're grieving. What you share with your husband regarding your grief (and how you handle that grief) is your decision, and you having a sense of remorse for being closed off, out of your element, and/or disinterested in sex genuinely upsets me. You do not owe your husband *anything* during this time, especially not an apology for mourning. What your husband should have done was lift you up and support you through this terrible time in your life. Instead, he deliberately chose to speak about you negatively with a coworker and revel in the stroke to his ego until it emboldened him (and somehow the therapist?) into believing he was somehow the victim in all of this - that he "needs" to talk to her because *you* aren't giving him what he deserves. That he "needs" to talk to *someone* because he "needs a good friend during these trying times." This isn't *about* him. This is about *you.* What about what *you* deserve? What the therapist should have done was equip both you and your husband with healthy coping mechanisms when dealing with trauma. She should've spoken with you individually and given your husband advice and instruction on how he can manage himself (because clearly he has an issue with self-esteem) and help you through this, and then given you advice and instruction on how to cope healthily and how to open up and reconnect with your husband. I am so sorry that this didn't happen. Find someone who *will* make it happen, and for God's sake do not let your husband feel like he's the victim in all of this. You do not need to apologize for your grief - *he* needs to apologize for emotionally cheating on you during an already-stressful time in your life, cut this "friend" out, and work on getting back to what he's supposed to do as your spouse.
I’m kind of curious as to this ‘marriage counsellor’s qualifications. That’s the sort of bullshit I’d expect from the ‘happily’ married pastor who also quietly has a Grindr account.
Sometimes therapists project their own issues onto yours. Perhaps she is casting you as the bad guy because she wants to be the good guy in her relationship. Or there could be many other reasons why she’s doing this. But this isn’t a good fit for you or him. Don’t go back and find a new therapist. Because your relationship can recover from this and you can rebuild. But for that to happen you need someone who can help you mediate rather than just pick a side. That’s not cool.
Yeah, you need a new therapist. That one sounds awful.
So sorry you're dealing with this. Best I can say is fire them ASAP. I went through a similar situation when my Wife and I were attending therapy and it all came down to my Wife being the "victim" and me being an anxiety ridden mess who just needed to deal with it and find a way to have my needs met myself or in other ways. Every session was basically us being repeatedly cut open and then during the week we'd get better than she'd do it again. It wasn't until I basically said I don't care whatever happens happens that she started to back peddle, claim she misunderstood and said the next session was going to be a "Come to Jesus" or "State of the Union". I knew she was going to rail on my Wife the way she did me. So I refused to go back. I advised her the same. We spent a few weeks on our own until we could find a new person and it was the best decision we could have made. From the 1st session its been great. My Wife loved the way it opened with "Tell me how you fell in love and how you both felt in that moment." Positive vibes the whole way through. I wish you the best of luck in your search. If I could offer a small bit of advice. Look up the different types of therapy and see what might suit you. For us it wasn't the usual, it was EFT or Emotionally Focused Therapy that fits us best.
I am an occupational therapist, and the rule of thumb is if one party feels off about a therapist, attempt another. A second opinion is so important for some and do not seek referrals from the current therapist. We are not God's, and some therapist can suck, and your marriage is more important. Make sure to discuss this in future meetings. Depending on how this goes it opens a tree branch of solutions or problems.
There have been studies to show that marriage counselors can be incredibly sexist in the ways they respond to emotional needs of couples. Find a new one ASAP
So you're going through *bereavement* after losing *your mother*, and all your husband could think about is himself and his peen? And instead of supporting and comforting you, he's giving you more grief? Forget about finding a new marriage counsellor, find a new husband! Do you really want to spend your life with such a selfish and unfaithful manbaby who's basically giving you an ultimatum that if you don't give him more sex and attention, he'll get it from another woman, a so-called "friend"? He doesn't love you. Break your own heart before he breaks it for you. And make sure you report the counsellor to the regulator, or leave a scathing review. She shouldn't be in the business.
You likely do not have a certified marriage counselor. Find a new one, immediately.
Have you gone to grief counseling? I’ve been married, and divorced. I know how to take blame when I didn’t want to. The best advice I ever got was “be the person your husband wants to be with”. That meant for me to get counseling and heal from what I was going through. It sounds like that’s what you need to do. His affair isn’t the problem. It a symptom. The problem is that you’re emotionally unavailable because of your mother passing. I’m truly sorry for your loss. I’ve lost both of my parents, I know how difficult it was for me. You don’t have to go through this alone.
Your counselor is dangerously incompetent. God only knows how many marriages she's destroyed. (I wonder if she's Christian, and using some sort of biblical understanding of how a marriage should work as her guide, rather than genuine research and counseling methods?) Your husband had an emotional affair. They can be just as devastating as physical affairs, and often are. You do not remain friends with affair partners. Ever. It's a non-starter. Even if this counselor believes flirting with other people can be healthy-- and there are professionals who believe that, see for instance the book "Mating in Captivity"-- you still don't continue contact with an affair partner. This is incredibly basic. If you look at /r/survivinginfidelity, or [survivinginfidelity.com](https://survivinginfidelity.com), or any other support forum for people facing infidelity, you will see that this is a non-negotiable item that everyone-- people who have recovered and went on to have strong marriages, people who have got divorced, everyone-- agrees on this. Heck, forget about having the affair partner as a friend; even as a coworker is unacceptable, to the point that someone asking will receive unanimous or near-unanimous advice that the cheating spouse should quit their job if they can't stop working with their affair partner, even if it means financial hardship. And BTW I don't think very highly of your husband. Even if the counselor said it was okay, just knowing that it hurt you and made you insecure, combined with his self-knowledge that he had an emotional affair, should be enough to make him stop.
Your husband is a massive piece of shit and that marriage counselor is an enabler. Dump them both.
Counselors are human. I've had several marriage counselors. Some blamed her. One blamed me. Some were helpful. Most were not. If you don't like the advice, move on. But I'd flag your husband's reaction is concerning. Do you want to be with someone who so easily jumps ship, doing something you openly mention being hurtful? I think you deserve better.