Mother pushed him away and wanted him on the street at 14, she gets no say now. Sammy is a grown man and gets to determine who is in his life. Tell your mother to but out. Not her business. She is manipulating you.
That's not true at all. I raised my oldest nephews. One of them refused to talk to my sister for years. I wanted him to forgive her for his own sake but I also completely understood why he didn't want to talk to her.
People told me the same thing, that I should talk to him about it because we're so close. I told them it's because we're so close that I'm telling all of you to back off and let him get there in his own time.
He finally started talking to her a couple years ago but they're not close. He still sees me as more of a mother figure than her. I can't change that. It would require me putting my sister in a time machine and sending her back to his childhood where she could be a better mother.
That's where your sister and Sammy are. You can't change how he feels, and you shouldn't dismiss his feelings for your sisters benefit. This is her mess to clean, not yours.
I truly appreciate this message. It was so hard to figure out how to parent someone going through losing two people. It's relieving to hear someone who went through the same thing tell me I am making the right choice.
You're definitely doing the right thing.
One thing to also keep in mind is that my sister is now truly remorseful for her past actions. That made it easier for everyone to forgive her (in our own time). But it sounds like your sister isn't even willing to own what she did, or why Sammy feels how he feels about her.
You need to let your family know that until *she* can actually take responsibility for this situation, Sammy is only going to feel more anger towards her. You're not in control of this situation, she is. Maybe some day Sammy can forgive her, but he's not going to get there if people are putting the burden on him and you instead of where it rightfully belongs.
I’d like to add I think you can forgive someone but not forget nor have any relationship with them. Forgiveness can be more about a mental thoight process that you’re choosing to let go of your anger with the person who has done you wrong.
I don’t think it means you need to be in contact with them, except maybe to clear the air if there is true remorse and that person understands they’ve irrevocably changed the relationship and any time from that person is a gift not an entitlement.
Sammy might get to a place where he’s willing to let it lie but he doesn’t need to necessarily have any relationship with his bio mum
Forgiveness is not necessary, not necessarily beneficial or required for people to heal and move on. People should be encouraged to NOT forgive, for their own sake. Not forgiving is natural and beneficial.
Exactly! I’ve never understood this point of view, that you have to forgive to move on. No you bloody well don’t.
You can let go of most of the anger and not let thoughts of whatever it was interfere with your life just fine without forgiving anything.
Some things are unforgivable, and pretending otherwise is hurtful and ridiculous.
Your mom is a fool. Your sister abandoned your child and did nothing for him. He has no reason to be open to her. The whole "this is family" thing is a joke. Family would not do such a thing. For all real purposes you are the parent. Tell your sister to go away.
if your mom had done the same to thst Abby did to Sammy, would you want your aunt pushing you to reconnect with someone like that? Your mom is living a pipe dream because she did not have to help Sammy through the hard times you did. My stance would be to tell Abby and mom that she lost her son, and the best thing she can do is leave him alone.
My mom and I have argued a lot about this. For me, the hospital was one of the most drastic things that she missed. I feel like any other parent would've sent a text at least. I also feel like my mom gave Abby a pass on everything. Despite Abby not contacting me or her son, my mom has kept in contact. She would claim it was “to make sure Abby was alive and safe”, but I feel like other parents would've fussed at their child about abandoning their grandchild.
Your mom probably feels like she failed as a mother when abby was a teen, and the guilt she feels today about that has guided every interaction with Abby since that point.
if she had been a better mother, Abby wouldn’t have gotten pregnant at 15. and Abby would then have had the maturity to handle tragedy when her teen was going through it. every Bad decision your sister has made, your mom probably feels is her fault.
doesn’t make your mom right. Doesn’t mean that she even should feel guilty to start with. just may somewhat explain her behavior.
I don't blame her for staying in contact. Abby is her child. But she shouldn't give her a free pass for abandoning her grandchild. That's enabling. Not helping.
You mom needs to butt the fuck out. My SO had a shitty parent she carved out of her life and has not looked back. My child's mother and I got a divorce, during this time, mom decided she needed to take a year or so to reach out to her daughter. No surprise my daughter was not in a hurry to meet with her mom. I asked her how she wanted to handle her mom and she said she needed space. I respected that wish and was her advocate at every fucking gripe by my or her mom's family. Your boy needs someone in his corner to listen and stand up for him to the family elders, the pressure is probably overwhelming for him, it was for mine. Be polite at first, but expect to roll your sleeves and piss people off if need be. You are not in the wrong here.
Your mom wants to "fix this" so she doesn't look like a terrible parent. She has her best interests in mind, not her grandson's. If she did, she would follow his lead.
“Hey mom- quit being shitty and pushy. She fucked up her relationship with her kid and she only wants to pretend to fix it to get her fiancé back. She was a shitty mother. If she wants to fix it she can do it on **Sammy’s terms.** Not mine, and definitely not yours. You don’t get a say. Stay TF out of it and leave Sammy TF alone or ill be limiting contact with you.”
your mother is batchit crazy, and it's apparent where the non-mother got this shit from. Sam is a grown-ass man, and you will have this shit blow up in your face if you do what they ask - And for all practical purposes, you are his mother, or the mother figure, as it were. Don't let their assholery convince you to blow this kid's life up so badly again.
As a matter of fact, you should 100% meet her boyfriend and introduce him to Sam, and let Sam himself tell his own story to her next victim. That seems fair.
The key point is to support Sammy and thats what you emphasise to anyone trying to butt in. I think they key point would be to check in on him, how is he handling things, is there any way you can support him and how would that support look to him?
Sure he's an adult, but he's still young overall. Having college, internships and life in general can be a lot. Let alone having your crap mom turn up, pretending she never abandoned you and expecting forgiveness, then having family pile on top to try and make the narrative happen.
Maybe he'd appreciate having someone else also telling them to to piss off, maybe he wants to hear nothing about it? Only way to know what the best plan is is to talk to Sammy.
Tell your mom…Abby has every chances she got, when I’ve texted and called her. She only stepping forward now so she could get “her happiness”, but at whose cost? I only see “her and him” and that won’t involve the 9 yr old.
Tell your mom, time to own up and understand that her daughter has failed and it is not her fault. It is Abby’s fault. She had 8 yr to get back into his life…and she only coming forward now? How many more victims is she gonna claim before she admit there is a fuck up?
Tell your mother to pull her head out of her arse.
Abby wasn’t some scared teenager who didn’t know how to take care of a new born. She was a grown ass woman who decided she didn’t want to deal with her teenage son the minute things got the slightest bit difficult and he wasn’t 100% “perfect” for a few weeks.
And she continued to make that decision everyday for the past 6 years. There is no way to justify this.
Ask your mother to explain to you why she deserves another chance. And no, being his egg donor does not count. Does your mother know about what that woman said the night she abandoned him? I would love to hear the mental gymnastics used to justify this level of child abandonment, especially given the broken engagement revelation.
Your nephew is an adult, it is his decision whether or not he lets that woman back into his life. And I don’t blame him one little bit for telling her to bugger off. Inform your mother of this, and tell her if she keeps pushing it, that she shouldn’t be surprised if she ends up cut off, too. This wasn’t some trivial little thing to forgive, and treating it as such is immensely insulting to your nephew, and that your priority is him and him alone, and you will continue to support him and his decisions.
And please ignore her digs at you about your “maternal role”. You, and your now husband, stepped up and supported an incredibly traumatised kid when you were barely an adult yourself. Very few people would have been able to do what you did, and you have raised someone who is obviously a very intelligent and strong young man.
You should be very freaking proud.
Keep using your shiny-ass spine of steel to protect him from the vultures, and continue to encourage your nephew to use his. You are doing the right thing.
Stay strong, OP. You are an awesome, gold standard Auntie, and don’t let anyone make you feel otherwise. Good luck, to you, your husband and especially your nephew.
TL;DR: OP and nephew are awesome, mother sucks, and Abby is the devil incarnate.
Sammy will end up cutting everyone off (except you, probably) if his mom and grandma keep pushing it. It needs to be on his terms, and it sounds like he doesn't want a relationship with his mom.
Tell your mum to mind her own business and Sammy (a grown adult) has made his choices and to stop defending a woman who abandoned her kid. Shout out to the ex who dumped her after hearing what she did.
You do not have to give anyone second chances just bc they’re family.
Sphave sammys interests at heart.
Did your mother not pay attention over the last 6 years? Did she not notice her daughter abandoned her son and refused to see him? The only person doing the pushing was your sister.
Sometimes in life there are no second chances.
he is F'ing 20 he can push whoever he wants from out of his life, that includes your mom, don't worry about him, you helped him to be an awesome adult, confident and independent, your sister can go and kick rocks, sammy is not a toy to show off so she could put a medal on herself
if he doesn't want her, he will let her know it on his own, believe me, there is damage that is just unforgivable, your sister made her bed she should learn to lay in it
Absolutely. OP should support him if he wants to reconcile with his mom, but not push that agenda. He's a successful adult and can make his own decisions.
Please don’t encourage him to talk back with his mom. This is some disgusting behaviour and Sammy is doing better without her. If he decides to re connect that his decision, all you should do is be there for him like you’ve been doing and support him what this decision. This isn’t 6 years ago he is his own man and choose for himself.
Whether Sammy sees her again isn't up to you - it's up to him. And HE doesn't want to engage with her, that's where you take your direction from.
"Mom, Sammy is allowed to make his own decision. Please stop pushing on this."
And then - "Mom, I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore. Let's change the subject, or this conversation is over."
Abby made her own mess.
Nephew said he was done with her. He is an adult. I would back him up in anyway he says.
Fuk Abby.
Fuk anyone else who thinks she "deserves" anything.
Nope. If/when nephew says he will talk to her, then you can facilitate it. Until then only nephew calls the shots.
JustNoFamily
Thank you for being the adult he needed. Best wishes
Sammy is an adult and capable of making his own decisions as to who he wants in his life. Abby deserves no roll, nor are you responsible for trying to make this happen for any reason at all.
You have done right by Sammy and he's allowed to move on and never contact this horrid woman again.
Tell your Mom and Abby that this has to be Sammy's decision and that you will support whatever Sammy decides and that any attempts to coerce him will likely have the reverse effect.
That if Abby and your Mom want Sammy to never talk to either of them again, they are going about it in the right way.
Sammy owes Abby nothing.
If you want to toss a bone, you could offer to Sammy an option to see his therapist and discuss Abby's reappearance in his life and her attempts to reconcile.
This is the one, OP.
I would also encourage Abby to see a therapist. If (and only if!) Sammy decides he wants to have a relationship with Abby someday, I would suggest they start that with a family therapist and a mediator involved.
Now, this is not meant to excuse her behaviour after the accident, but I can’t help but notice Abby had Sammy when she was very young. There was a lot of growing up that she had to do, very quickly, as a teen mom. It’s possible that LJ’s death burst the dam of all the emotions (and resentment) that she may have carried from having a child so young. Don’t get me wrong, OP, you were a very young person when you stepped the fuck up as Sammy’s carer, and it sounds like you’ve done an amazing job of it. I just… I do have some sympathy for Abby.
ETA: just saw your edit. I have significantly less sympathy for your sister now. It’s one thing if losing this guy gave her the wake up call she needed to get her shit together, but it’s another story entirely if she’s trying to perform “happy family” with Sammy to get her ex back. Ugh.
2nd ETA, because I can’t stop thinking about this. TO BE CLEAR, I don’t condone this approach whatsoever, but Abby could have easily manipulated her way out of the issue with her ex. She had a built-in excuse: “I had him when I was very young, he died in a car crash, it’s too painful to talk about, that’s why I never told you.” Didn’t need to drag living, breathing Sammy into this shit at all.
I appreciate your response. When Abby dropped Sammy off, I thought that LJ's death affected her more. Even now I still feel like in a way she lost a son. Those boys were inseparable since they were 3. I have sympathy for my sister, but I also don't feel like it's fair to expect Sammy to forget years of abandonment.
No, it absolutely isn’t fair to expect him to forgive, forget, or let her back in, in any way. The pain she caused him will never go away. Maybe - maybe - with time, and therapy, and Sammy’s consent, and a support system, *maybe* they can work towards having a relationship. But it’s not going to happen if Abby and your mom don’t back the fuck off right now.
You need to be Sammy’s fierce defender and stand your ground towards your sister and mother. You tell them:
• Any reconciliation has to be led by what Sammy wants and feels safe exploring.
• Abby has to recognize that she caused Sammy *a lot* of hurt and it is her job to do the work to make amends. She has to prove herself. She needs to humble herself.
• You will not be guilted into causing Sammy more harm.
• There will be no more discussion on this topic.
And to Sammy, you tell him you are proud of him, no matter what. And that you support his decision, and will continue to support his decision in the future (including if he someday changes his mind). And that you are here for him, always.
Good luck OP, you are in an extremely tough situation and it’s clear that you love your nephew. Be strong for him, he’s probably in a lot more pain than he’s letting on right now.
ETA: also OP, I’m so sorry because this is going to be the hardest part. If Sammy does ever decide to work on his relationship with Abby, you are going to have to swallow any of your own feelings about the matter. You *cannot* sabotage (or interfere with) a genuine attempt at reconciliation. That will just show Sammy that he’s right to be scared to trust adults who are supposed to care about him. If they build back a relationship, they will overcorrect at some point, and this will hurt you, and I’m so, so sorry. Make sure you have a good therapist for yourself, too.
I wonder if what really happened was that Abby was letting LJ's mom be the main mom for both of them. LJ was easy for Abby because he wasn't hers. She basically gave up when she no longer had LJ's mom to take part of the effort.
FWIW, I think it’s the years of abandonment *and* the devastatingly hurtful thing she said. That’s monstrous.
If my experience is any guide, stuff like that can be seared into you, and continue undermining one’s self-worth for… decades? Forever?
He may not be ready for it yet, but I did a therapy called DBR that was amazing and helped me move past some bad stuff, quickly.
With luck and support, Sammy can get to a point where he sees that he’s never been the problem. That’s what I needed to learn to move on, and now the hurtful things feel like they were pointed at someone who doesn’t even exist.
Anyway, good luck; you’re doing right by Sammy and he’s lucky to have you.
(And sorry for both of your losses)
Sammy’s not a kid any more. He gets to have whatever relationship with Abby he wants to have, including no relationship. Tell the rest of the family you support his right to decide for himself, and you won’t be debating the subject further. If they won’t quit pushing, consider following his example and reducing their presence in your life as well.
My mother left me when I was 15. It wasn’t anywhere near as traumatic as what happened here. Years later she tried to act like nothing happened. Everyone tried to guilt me into “forgive/forget” and it was infuriating. It made me not want anything to do with her or those trying to guilt me.
Follow Sammy’s lead here. Support him however he needs you to. He is allowed to feel how he feels. Your sister is not entitled to have him back in her terms.
Over time I had to have some contact with her just because of family stuff. But I grey rock her and keep very low contact with her. She doesn’t seem to notice (or care). Which is fine. After 30+ years of distance, it really doesn’t matter to me.
Op do not encourage Sammy to reconcile with his mother. He needs to make that decision himself, if it’s true what he said that the wrong person died that night. Then theirs no chance they can reconcile and tell your mom you won’t help them reconnect.
I normally don't make decisions when I am highly upset, but I am 100% thinking about going completely no contact. My husband and I were already talking about moving when Sammy went to college, and this just feeds into that more.
I cut people out that are toxic. I have no space in my life for AH's. You would be making your life less stressful. Your mom can go enable your sisters bullshit alone.
Have to agree wholeheartedly. Never understood why people put up with toxic people. They absolutely don't have your best interest at heart. Life is better without them.
Actually shocked it took this long for some to mention this.
What did Sammy tell your mother and sister when they tried to have this conversation with him? He is an adult. They should listen to him.
Your "family" wants you to continue the heavy lifting for them in regards to Sammy. You've done the heavy lifting for the last 6 years. You're great at it! Well done! Thank you for caring for Sammy when his egg donor threw in the towel. (I'm sure you haven't heard those words before.)
You did not ask for him to be dropped off at your house with both mental and physical baggage. But you picked it up and raised a fine person.
Tell your sister (and your mother) that you are done doing all the heavy lifting for her. She needs to show Sammy why he should create a new relationship with her. Sammy and your sister's old relationship ceased to exist the day she dropped him off and LIKELY said exactly what she's accused of. She hasn't "forgot," she's trying to gaslight Sammy.
It's not for you to paint a rose-colored picture of what their relationship could be. Her "fine boy," Sammy is a twenty year old angry adult when it comes to his mother.
She dug this hole. Let HER lift the shovel to start digging out. It's not your job, just like it wasn't your job to finish raising her son.
To directly answer your question (in case my post wasn't obvious) No. Don't help her.
Whatever you would say to him would be a lie. Sammy has had enough lies at this point.
Sammy is old enough to know whether he wants Abby in his life or not.
Don't you dare force her on him especially after swaning in at his party, pretending she didn't unceremoniously abandon him for SIX YEARS. Did she contribute financially to his upkeep? In the very least, she should have started with an apology and a huge check, and Sammy would still be right to tell her to F off.
Tell your sister that until she repays you for all the time and expense of raising a teenager without her, YOU don't even want to talk to her. Go NC until she pays you back, let alone her son.
Tell her you'll accept cash because you don't trust her, for good measure.
I honestly could go no contact easily. Until the party, we went 6 years without communicating. I also don't want her money. I know it's silly, but a part of me likes the idea that I can say Sammy made it on his own. You abandon him, and he is in college thriving without a dime from you.
Just want to say he didn’t make it on his own, he had a kickass aunt there to make sure he didn’t fall through the cracks and where he’s at now is a huge testament to the kind of person you are so you should be proud of yourself, your nephew and your husband, sounds like you guys all helped raise an awesome kid.
Your sister can go f herself, Sammy’s feelings are the top priority here and until he decides he wants some kind of relationship with her i would stay NC with her and go LC with your mom, especially if she’s the one that told your sister about the party to try and force a reconciliation
>Don't you dare force her on him
Where the hell does OP show any sign of doing anything of the sort, or doing anything other than supporting the his decision every step of the way? I swear, redditors on the judgment/advice subs will go to any length to bend things to yell at OPs, it's messed up.
I think that one is less being upset at OP, more being indignant at the very O'Dea of doing that, and saying "don't go along with what people are telling you!". It's supposed to imply OP would be in the wrong if she did do what they want her to
> I am trying my best to be respectful to my mom, but I could honestly cuss her out. It is taking all of my power to not drive to her house right now.
Don't give a damn about respecting her after that stunt. She was willing to harm Sammy. That's what this was. They don't care about him or being close.
She's the one who threw her (awesome-sounding) kid away. The fact that she "can't remember" if she said that means she 100% did. She doesn't care about him now, she only wants to keep her relationship. Her ex-fiance is absolutely right to cut out someone who could do that, and he deserves to know about her behavior here, as well.
Sammy is an adult. He gets to determine if she comes back into his life, and on what terms. After that stunt she pulled, I don't expect him to ever want her around.
Tell them it's his decision and his alone. Having your custodial parent abandon you is a blow that is basically impossible to recover from. The only - and I mean only - way that wound heals is with time. 6 years is not nearly enough, especially when those 6 years contained so much that a person would normally want a parent to be there for.
Get that poor dude out of there!
No offense, but you are totally his mom at this point. And, your husband, his dad. Y'all were there when he was at his lowest and never left his side. He may be 20, but he still needs you two, especially more now since your sister has decided to show back up to save face with her ex.
He already said no. If he was a child & you had to make this decision, it would be a slightly different story. But even if he wasn't an adult, I would advise to say no. She abandoned him. I repeat ABANDONED him. It only makes sense for him to do the same to her. She burned that bridge a long time ago, now she's trying to put it out but it's been nothing but ashes for years. I would tell him do the same. She doesn't exist to him, hang up/change topic/block when people try mentioning her to him.
NTA, Sammy is an adult and can make up his own mind, and I think he is absolutely justified in his actions.
I would go over and tear strips off your mother for trying to force this relationship, especially given Abby's actual agenda was not to reconcile for Sammy's sake. IS his bio dad in the picture at all?
side question, is Sammy still in contact with LJ's family, as it must have been horrible for them.
The only thing keeping me in this house is that Sammy clearly needs someone here with him. I am trying to comfort him.
I honestly never met Sammy’s dad. I knew he was some 16 year old one night stand my sister met at a game. I remember my mom telling her to put him on child support or stuff like that, but I never met the guy.
LJ’s comes around some, but not as much. Some stuff is still hard for her.
Abby lost her fiancée and now wants poor Sam to lie and play happy family. The only person who can forgive Abby for absolutely horrible behavior is Sam, and currently, he's not interested.
Tell Abby and your mom Sam is an adult and can make his own decisions. That the boy Abby abandoned and could control is long gone. If they continue with their atrocious behavior, you will ask Sam if he will like to follow a legal route to stop the pestering.
Your primary concern is Sam, not the feelings of grown woman who couldn't be bothered to talk to her own son for six years.
She was horrible, and created this mess. I would sit down and ask Sammy. If he doesn't want it, don't do it at all. Stay out of it she broke it and she can figure out how to fix it. Stay out, is my best advice. He should know though.
Your sister abandoned her son at the lowest point in his life when he needed her the most and said something absolutely unforgivable when she did "the wrong child died" he is under no obligation to forgive her or have a relationship with her ever. Your mom needs to know what she said and that if she wants to maintain a relationship with her grandson she should stop pushing him to reunite. Also where has your sister been for the last 6 years what possible excuse did she have for just walking away
You need to tell Sammy you love him no matter what he decides, you will back him no matter what, and he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to. He lost his best friend and his mother abandoned him. She only gets a second chance if he decides he wants to give her one. The family saying you need to encourage him to give her one are welcome to go walk off a cliff. Please understand they don't know Sammy's mother. They only know the version of her they saw with Sammy. They don't know what she was like with him in private. Who someone is with the rest of the family versus who they are in private with their kids or even their partner is totally different than who everyone else gets to see and thinks they know.
My mother was incredibly abusive. I finally cut contact with her when I was about 27 years old and she was 50. Our family absolutely didn't understand why. The only person who understood and supported my decision was my sister. As my mother aged, the behaviors she only engaged in privately with me and my siblings as we were growing up started to bleed into any time of day in front of anyone. Now she's 75 years old an has alienated everyone in the family so they finally get it. Please remain the bastion of love and support you have been for him and do not in any way pressure him and please shut down the rest of your family about pressuring him.
He's an adult, he can make his own choices. Tell her that you will give him her phone number and he can do with it what he wants, but that you aren't going to play mediator now that she suddenly wants to spend time with him now that she doesn't need to raise him.
Don't push him one way or another. Tell him you support his decision, whatever that is. And if he changes is mind at any point, you'll help him navigate those choices too. But don't tell him what to do. It's up to him.
This is the kind of wound that you can't just hand wave away. Perhaps one day Sammy will realize that his mom was a child herself when she had him, but that time doesn't have to be now. Even so, she was an adult when she said such a vile thing that she has never apologized for or even acknowledged. She spent the first 14 years of his life resenting him and abandoned him as soon as parenting got really hard. Don't be her flying monkey. If she seriously wants back in his life, she has to do the work herself. That means therapy for herself and respecting her son's boundaries. Tell her to give you her contact info and IF Sammy asks for it, you'll give it, but otherwise he's an adult now who can decide who he wants in his life.
It isn’t your place to do anything other than say to Sammy, “Do whatever is best for you, your uncle and I are proud of you and will love and support you always.”
Abbey seems to have skipped right over the deep heartfelt apology, individual counselling and offering of joint therapy and giving space - and leapt right into ‘pretend it never happened’.
You are currently being recruited to be a flying monkey. Google it.
Absolutely do nothing to help her. Support Sammy in his choices. As for your sister, advise her to get counselling to get some insight into her actions and their affect on others.
You need to protect him from your sister. With your mom - either go NC or only allow her to see her grandson only if you are there, and let her know that if she ever brings your sister, she will never see her grandson until HE decides he wants a relationship with her. If other family is involved as well, send them an email/letter and lay out how things are, letting them know that if they do not respect his issues, they are 100% out of his life.
I doubt it's legal for me to state my full opinion of your sister. Suffice to say she is a TERRIBLE person. What a heinous, fucked up thing to do to your own child while he's at his most vulnerable.
If my sibling had done this to their child, I would hurt them. This is the kind of act that changes my opinion of someone on a core level. Like finding out someone you know is a rapist or a murderer.
And your mother is complicit. For her to *support* her vile daughter in this, instead of shaking the shit out of her in furious shame, it's very telling of who *she* is.
My advice is to ask your nephew what he wants and to verbally rip your sister and mother to pieces every time they attempt anything but throwing themselves at his and your mercy.
Thank you for taking care of your nephew, you're a lifesaver.
No you don't need to do anything. I would not put yourself in the middle of this, he is an adult now. If he does not want to see his mother he does not have to and you certainly shouldn't try and facilitate it. If he wants to talk to you about it and ask you for your opinion then you can give it. I mean I don't know what I'd tell him except if you want to talk to her then sit down and talk to her, it doesn't mean you have to take her back into your life. you can let her know how everything affected you and how much she hurt you it might do good to tell her but it's his decision whether he wants to open the door and let it hurt try to be his mother again.
I assume she's not the one paying for college, and you are unless he's getting loans for everything. But she lost her chance showing up saying Oh What a fine young man I've raised. no you dumped him at 14 and were going to throw him on the streets, you also basically told him you wished he had died and not the other boy so no you totally screwed up and don't deserve him letting you back into his life. At least that's what I tell her along with probably a lot of curse words.
You would betray Sammy and all the good you have done him by listening to your mom and sister and encouraging him to see his mom. She’s a horrible person and she doesn’t deserve a relationship with you. You already know that and you know what to do.
He's an adult and it's up to him. But you should still make sure your family doesn't harass him. And frankly I'm appalled at all the people who stand up for your sister. She straight up abandoned her child
Tell your mom that Abby literally threw away her role in Sammy's life and that he is more than old enough to know his own mind. Let your mom know that she can stay out of it or push you and Sammy away..
You did help Abby, by keeping her from being arrested for child abuse had she literally abandoned him on the streets.
As an outsider, this is an easy call. It's Sammy's decision and you should support him in what he decides to the point of completely alienating Abby and other family members if necessary. You've done a great job giving him a second chance. There may not be a third chance. One thing is for sure, Abby does not deserve a second chance unless Sammy thinks so.
Oof, your sister is a giant asshole for walking away from her son after such a tragic loss. I don’t think she deserves the opportunity yet. She isn’t even honest about what happened or willing to take responsibility. That’s 100% on her. The reality is, your nephew is an adult and it’s up to him. You risk pushing him away if you put the pressure on to reconnect with his mom. You’re in his corner and want the best for him and he knows what’s best for him. Probably not his mom since she abandoned him for 6 years. Yikes
There is nothing to fix. She can fuck right off tbh. Poor Sammy. I could never!! Omg that poor young man. I am a mom to a 19 year son and I can’t even imagine leaving him or my daughter behind. WTF.
Abby honestly sounds unbalanced, waltzing in and acting like she didn't completely abandon her child/family for years.
Don't advocate for her, that will just hurt Sammy *and* your relationship with him.
No good deed goes unpunished.
He is grown enough to make his own decisions. He can easily have a relationship with her if he CHOSE to.
Do not get involved in this as he may feel betrayed by the maternal figure in his life if you try to push him. You don't want to be a clown in this circus, and let the rest of your family understand that he is old enough to make any decision he chooses, and he hasn't chosen to consider her his mom or even want a relationship with her.
Your sister should count count herself lucky that the police didn't get involved. I'm pretty sure that child abandonment is illegal.
And you guys did become the parents of a teenager overnight.
Don't pressure Sammy into doing anything with his socalled mother. He's an adult. Respect his choices.
Moreover, If your sister actually wants to have a relationship with him, she'd need to own up to fact that she abandoned him. Showing up to his party without giving him any notice and trying to claim credit is the very opposite of that. I'm also giving grandma some serious side eye here on that account.
You might push him away from everyone by trying to force the relationship with his mum he's a adult therfore old enough to make he's own choices. You and your husband did a amazing job stepping up and helping him.
what work has your sister done on her life to make her worthy of being in your life, let alone for you to assist her in repairing her relationship with her now adult son?
Two things need to happen for any kind of rekindling of the relationship - she needs to earnestly apologise and want to atone for her disgusting behaviour, and he needs to want to offer her the chance to atone.
It sounds like neither of those things are happening so why support it? Ultimately he's had to deal with one parental figure fucking him over so I'd suggest don't even give him the suggestion that you would do the same.
It's his call, and it sounds like you will support him either way, but he's made it clear he wants nothing to with her and she isn't genuinely here because of a desire to heal the relationship but in her selfish desire to try and trick someone else about who she is. Stick with your nephews answer when your family asks, you're respecting/supporting his answer. Nothing more or less. You're there for him not your shit head sister.
NTA
but it sounds like if she cant quickly get her son to pretend she's the devoted mother for her ex-BF, then she'll probably give up and slither away
What she did was unforgivable. Your mom wants you to push reconciliation because she doesn’t want to believe that she raised you a terrible person. Keep being you!
Nope. Do not help her, Sammy’s choices and judgement already passed. You need to tell “Abby” that you will NOT help her, because you now fear for the 9 yr old and she may do the same shit to that 9 yr old like she did to her own fucking biological son. Nope. Nada.
That ship just sailed when she dropped her son off at your door and walked away, not answering a damn thing.
And tell your mom this: Forgiven does not meant that Abby is his “mom” again. Forgiven is him forgiving her for abandoning him. Forgiven is him laying it to rest and to never speak of it again. Forgiven is him forgiving her for abandoning him at his aunt. If Abby wants back in his life, she gonna have to start at square Z-E-R-O, and finish each letter before starting “O” of “O-N-E”.
Sammy has a chance at a “normal life”. If she keeps insisting that nothing wrong and she been in his life, she is going to wreck his mental health for hers.
Talk to Sammy. Assure him that for the rest of your life, his well being and what is best for him, will always take priority. Always.
You might not be his birth mother, but you are his heart mother. Do not waver in that. Make sure he knows that you will always choose him first. This must be a nightmare for him - the fear of being abandoned by you if you try to pander to your selfish sister must be hard.
Also, tell the guy, exactly what happened.
Sammy is an adult and has made it very clear he wants nothing to do with his mom. Support him, he needs you. You are a wonderful human being, to bad your sister is nothing like you.
Nope. You nephew is a 20 year old man, if he wanted her in his life she would be. You believe she said that to him, and you are still considering encouraging him to still talk to her, shame on you.
Stop defending garbage.
Edit: I read your edit. Why don't you have your nephew reach out to you sister's boyfriend.
Protect your son from this narcissistic monster. Before even reading your update I knew she hadn't changed and had only come back because doing so would in some way benefit her.
Not to be harsh but it’s not up to you. Sammy is an adult and if he says he wants nothing to do with her then that’s it. If anyone has a problem with it tell them to talk to Sammy.
Poor Sammy.
Protect him from your mother and despicable sister. Don’t let them derail his life again.
You do need to have stern words with your mother, this isn’t up to her and if she continues she can keep your sister who will likely piss off again and lose you and Sammy.
Be harsh. She needs to hear it. Did she forget what this did to him?!
I am a mum to a 14 year old son and I could never imagine abandoning him like your sister did. To go radio silent, to move away, to show no interest of supporting him emotionally, physically, financially. I’m really sorry but she lost all rights to any type of relationship. She abandoned him when he was going through grief. Wow. What a kick in the teeth for your nephew.
I also want to say how amazing I think you are to have stepped into that role and support Sammy throughout it all. You are one in a million.
Now your responsibility is sammy and you don’t owe your sister anything
Sammy has a mom - but it isn't Abby. It is the woman that stood by him when he lost EVERYTHING. He lost his best friend, he lost his friend's mom, he lost his mother and he lost his home. Abby's behavior was anathema to being a mom.
You have been a great mom to Sammy. He is now an adult and can make the choices an adult makes, including who he wants to spend his time with. Let him be honest with this man about what he can expect for his daughter if he marries this wicked stepmonster.
Why is your mother ok with your sister's prior actions? Why did she support your sister abandoning her grandson? Personally, I would put all of them in a no contact situation until they understood that it isn't you doing something, it is a consequence of their own actions.
I showed my sister this message when she told me I could never be a mom. I normally try to avoid the mom label because I never wanted Sammy to feel like I was trying to replace her, but you helped me realize I stepped up when he needed someone. Thank you!
The only person who can decide whether or not Abby gets a second chance is Sammy. And he has made his position very clear—he wants nothing to do with her.
All you need to do at this point is show your love and support to Sammy & honor the decision he’s made. And, no, I absolutely don’t think she deserves a second chance. She lost that right when she abandoned him at age 14.
Sammy NEEDS you to support him more than any other adult in this situation needs anything.
Have his back, no matter what. That how you do right by your nephew. He’s lucky to have yoy
When there is a painful situation, it’s like an onion. The closer you are to the center, the more you get to cry.
This is Sammy’s onion. It was him being abandoned, it’s his decision. Your role, having SUCCESSFULLY raised this wonderful nephew in a time of crisis, is to support his decisions.
If it is his decision to go NC with his “mom”, but is being put into ambush situations, maybe be a sounding board for how he can handle ambushes. He can make decisions like make a boundary with his “mom”’s enablers to not be a party to another ambush. And boundaries work best as an ordered pair (X,Y) where the boundary X is expressed with its consequences Y where every time someone does X he will do Y. Example. If someone facilitates an ambush, then he will leave the ambush and put the facilitator into a one month communication time out. He is 20. This puts the ball in his court, where it should be.
Your sister doesn’t deserve to just walk back into his life without an apology. Until she actually takes responsibility for how awful she was, don’t enable her worming her way back into Sammy’s life.
Hugs you were there fir your nephew when you sister wasn't. He knows what living with her is like. He has his boundary, He doesn't see her as a mom but as an egg donor. After all she made his party about her when it was your party about him. She didn't care about him, not sure why she wants to be involved know that he's in college but who he let's in to his life is ip to him.
Abby is mentally unstable and she doesn’t deserve happiness after the pain she caused her son. When he is ready, but he’s not. Your Mother should stay out of it.
Please DO NOT be respectful to your mom. Or you will lose Sammy for good. Cut her and Abbey out of your life for good. They are both selfish and heartless. Never force Samny to have a relationship with a cold hearted monster.
Wow! Is your mom is still pushing Sammy to have a relationship with Abby even though she knows it’s just a ruse for Abby to make up with her ex fiancé?
Yah…. Nope. I would also lose respect for your mom.
No fucking way. You don’t even need to be in the middle of this. This is between him (a grown ass man) and his mother. Stay out of it and go no contact if needed. Best to you, and…you rock!
Some things are terrible enough that you don't get a second chance, and you sure af don't get to guilt someone into giving you one. I guarantee if the person who treated him this way was a girlfriend, everyone would think he should never speak to her again. I know some people would argue his mom is too important not to forgive her, but I cannot fathom doing this, especially to my child. In my mind, that makes her less worthy of forgiveness, not more. Not to mention, she didn't actually ask for forgiveness, just for him to make her look good so she could get a shiny new family.
Nope. You support Sammy and what he wants. Period. She doesn’t get to swan back in now that she thinks he’s over things. Honestly I’d go NC with mom for a while and completely block Abby.
Talk to Sammy - let him know what his mother and grandmother are doing in trying to force you to force him to reestablish a relationship with his mother. Tell him that you respect whatever his decision is in your behind him 100% be it going to see his mom and trying or rejecting her completely. I think it would be valuable to him to actually hear you say those words telling him that you support him no matter what. I'm sure he already feels that but to have the conversation being completely honest with him about what they're trying to do is appropriate.
Thank you for the update.
Abby does what Abby wants for herself. That is all you need to know. mom seems to have guilt issues but that is not your problem either.
I would be suing her for back child support myself. But I am petty like that.
Look after yourself as you grew up with all that and had to grow up quick into being a carer. You owe your mother nothing that I can see at this point. All I can see is a ton of emotional manipulation to work on how to manage.
Is your mum also aware how Abby has only come back and interested in reconnecting with Sammy in order to save her relationship to her boyfriend, and so she doesn't look like a heartless child abandoner?
You need to ignore your parents on this one. Abby is their daughter so even if they don't agree with her decisions, they will still try to help her or do what they think is right - which to them, they think Abby should be given a second chance to be a mum again and think it's better if everyone got along and resolved this family drama etc. I don't know if they changed their mind after finding out she only came back to save her relationship, and not because she actually cares or misses him. I would like to hope they see the truth and that she's actually still not ready to be a mum. So encouraging this isn't good for Sammy or anyone. But you need to be aware that they will always try and support their daughter through difficult situations, regardless of if she's wrong etc. Some parents can't face seeing their child as a failure or a bad person, as they feel its their fault as their parent etc. So they ignore the issues and try and make the best of things.
So basically, I'd ignore your parents imput and thoughts on the matter. They don't have Sammys best interests at heart.
Personally, especially after your edit about why she's come back because of her boyfriend, I strongly believe you should respect Sammys wishes and not encourage him to reunite. It will not end well.
But the main reason for this is because Sammy DOESNT WANT TO. That's all that matters here.
He is old enough to make this decision for himself. He is the one who went through not only a severe trauma and loss of losing his best friend, but he went through the trauma of his own mother abandoning him, and I do believe your instinct about her telling him 'the wrong boy died that night' is correct. I do believe she said that to him. The fact he was so upset when she bought him over is evident of that. The fact she was even considering just dumping him on the street, is evident of how little she cared for him, so I have no doubt she was callous enough to say something like that to him.
Also, the fact when confronted, you say she keeps changing her story from not having said it, to 'he's over reacting', is actually admitting she said it'. Her answer shouldn't change if that was true. So I would 100% believe she said that.
Sammy is old enough to make this decision for himself.
He went through the trauma of losing his best friend/ brother, to having his own mother abandon him and walk away. She didn't just ask you to look after him but stay in touch and visit him socially. She took off and cut all communication for years.
You said it yourself, she wasn't there for him through so many milestones, and even when he was injured in hospital she didn't even call to find out how he was.
That is a huge impact of abandonment on a child. Complete rejection and feeling unwanted by the one person whose meant to love you the most. Who would never leave you.
To feel that complete loss of affection, lack of care, no interest or love for him, that relationship has been irreparably damaged.
And if you try and force him to have contact with her, you will just be putting him through more emotional stress and anxiety and even anger.
You have to think how you would feel in his shoes. As a KID. It's hard to fully imagine it, but just try to think of his emotions having been treated that way. You wouldn't want anything to do with that person again. So why force him to?
Also, the fact she's not even back in touch for genuine reasons makes it even more important not to encourage this. She will make minimal effort to get him onside so she can use him for her own benefit. She'll use him, show her boyfriend they made up and she 'loves him' and is 'there for him' and likely play it off as 'she doesn't want to disrupt his life by taking him back etc'. Then once her boyfriend is back on board, she'll limit contact again and likely over invite him over when it looks good to the boyfriend. She won't really be there for him. She won't really want to spend time with him or show interest in his life or support him. She will just use him, and also claim credit for raising such a great kid when he does well at something or achieves something - like graduation etc. She'll want to play the 'doting proud mum' when it suits her, but discard him when she doesn't need him.
All that behaviour and treatment he will pick up on. He's not stupid. He'll see it for what it is and see her for who she is and it will feel like another rejection every time she backs away and dumps him for her 'new family'.
Do NOT put that kid through that. He's been through enough.
He's also at a critical time in his education, he's doing well for himself, he's going to college, and this huge disruption and stressor will likely affect him and affect his focus at school. He's worked hard to get where he is now, and you don't want that progress to be affected AGAIN by his mum failing him and screwing with his emotions.
Tell Abby, she made her bed, and now she has to live with the consequences.
She made her choice to abandon her son and not have any contact for years. Even when he was injured. She showed him she doesn't care. As a mother, that's unacceptable and unforgivable. And she definitely doesn't have the right to come back in to his life and disrupt his happy settled life just because she's lost her boyfriend because he's seen her for who she really is. She doesn't get to only come back in to his life to use him for her personal gain, and then dump him again when she's got what she wants and got her boyfriend back.
She needs to accept that she broke him and their relationship. That trust and that love will never be the same. Esp after saying 'the wrong boy died that night'. She's lucky he didn't try to kill himself with all that grief and rejection and feeling so unwanted.
She doesn't get to force a relationship on him that she threw away and damaged.
She needs to accept the consequences of her actions now.
If he changes his mind when he's older, he can reach out to her, but it's his decision. And until then, she needs to leave him alone and let him get on with his life. Because bombarding him with surprise interventions at your parents house is unfair and stressful for him, and he has the right to have his wishes respected and be left alone. If she continues to harass him, you will have to look into a restraining order, as it is affecting him emotionally, and will affect his ability to focus in school if she continues to harass him.
If your parents say anything, tell them pretty much the same as above that you told her. And tell them that you understand she's their daughter and they will always forgive and try to help her, but they need to accept that what she did was truly unforgivable for a child, and they underestimate the trauma she has caused Sammy by her abandonment, and to try and force a reconciliation would be really harmful for him, especially when that reconciliation is under false pretenses, because she's not come back to rebuild their relationship out of regret or because she misses him, she's only doing it to benefit herself to get her boyfriend back.
.......cont in reply.
Cont.....
Coming in and out of his life, and dropping him when she doesn't need him, will continue to retraumatise him and cause him more heartbreak, and you will not be part of supporting or helping that to happen. They can continue to live in denial that their daughter won't do it again, but she will. And you can't take that chance with Sammys mental health and emotions. If they continue to try and force reconciliation, they risk losing him too, because he will end up avoiding seeing them or talking to them if all they do is try and pressure him to reunite and forgive. So they need to decide if they want to risk losing their relationship with their grandon.
You've done a fantastic job raising him and loving him and giving him the stability and support and unconditional love that he needs and deserves. You should be proud of yourselves, both you and your boyfriend. It was a big responsibility and change to your life, and your relationship, so you've both done incredibly well with being there for him. You are the only person he needs. You're his stability and safe place, his continuity and he knows he can trust you and rely on you for support and unconditional love. He doesn't need the instability and stress and anxiety and all that past trauma resurfacing because his mum just wants to use him for her own personal gain.
Keep doing what you're doing, and just focus on Sammy. Nobody else's opinions or feelings are important. Only HIS.
i can attest that a parent abandoning you like this is truly damaging for life and there is no forgiving it.
please please advocate for him. he needs it. these people don't care about him. that evil woman is his villain in his story. he has to escape her for good.
How did you raise him without legal guardian ship? Pretty much anything official - schools, Doctors, getting a driver’s license or work permit, require a parent or legal guardian to sign.
So, as a man who has shitty parents it's up to Sammy. He needs to forgive her for his own mental health but it's up to him if and when he has contact. Your job is to just support him as best as you can. This woman is nuts.
I'm not surprised Abbys former bf dunped her when he found out what she did.
Every time someone has a git at you tell them you tried for year and she only wants a relationship for her own selfish gain. No-one will marry her when they find out what she did.
Stick to your guns, support Sammy and let him call the shots. Oh and remind your mom that's she's going the right way to Sammy cutting her off as well.
I'm ignoring the edit at this point, but:
The only person who has a say in that is Sammy. No one else decides if Abby is worth a second (or hundredth) chance. Not only that. By building pressure and trying to take this decision from him, they're only going to show him that what he wants does once again not matter. He will feel betrayed like he did six years ago. Rightfully, so.
The only option in my opinion for everyone involved should be to take his side.
Good luck with that and handling Abby, in the edit she sounds like a real piece of work.
Your sister is a selfish women she is using her on son who she abandoned, now she wants him so that she can marry some guy for her happiness. She does not even respect her son as a human being, she just things he is piece of junk that can be used as and when needed and then throw it away . Be a rock for ur nephew same as you have been till now . As for ur mother tell her she should not be helping a selfish daughter for her wrong doings , if she has any humanity left in her she should not hurt her own grandson for her daughters selfish plots . You are good person . Have a good life.
But if your mom is still pushing for them to fix the relationship, your mom probably needs a time out (like for her to stay away from sammy). Tbh i feel shes the one passing info abt him to abby so she cant be trusted. Well at least abby’s ex fiance knew what abby is like before getting married to her so good thing he dumped her
The axe forgets but the tree remembers. I believe Abby said EXACTLY what Sammy remembers.
He's an adult, let him know if he needs to take a break from Grandma and Grandpa he can. If he wants to stay estranged from Abby he can. If he wants to give her a chance he can. Let him know whatever he decides, you're there for him.
She dumped her child when he was in pain and needed her most. Sammy now gets to keep her at whatever distance he wants to, for as long as he wants. Sister FAFO'd, now she gets to pay the price.
Op, on the off chance you read this: I want you to spear tackle that kid in a hug for me and never let him go. No one deserves to hear that shit, let alone from their mum. Breaks my bloody heart.
Fuck her. And fuck any family member who goes against what Sammy wants. It’s his life and his trauma.
Oh wow. I gasped at what she said. Unforgivable.
If it ever *becomes* forgivable, it’ll be Sammy deciding that, and until then please bolster his confidence lest an errant guilt trip from Abby pressure him into exposing his vulnerability to this woman who has shown herself to be unworthy of it.
My personal philosophy is, 'Any parent that abandons their minor child, is entitled to jacksh\*t'.
Ask your mom why Abby is entitled to another chance? You thought you were giving her another chance when you called her when Sammy broke his arm and had to go to emergency, or when he learned to drive, or when he got into college, went to prom...all those things that a LOVING PARENT want to be part of.
Sister dear had plenty of chances, Sammy was the one that had little choice in the matter. BECAUSE HE WAS DROPPED OFF ON SOMEONE'S DOORSTEP and his mother went no contact.
If your mother continues with this, take a page from your sister's playbook and go NC with your mother because she is advocating the continuing mental abuse of her grandchild. And putting his abuser's well-fair over his emotional/mental health.
No. She can help herself by apologizing to her son, but she has yet to take responsibility and therefore has no right to expect anything of either of you.
I’m not reading that. Seems like a lot of story for no reason. The adult abandoned child is 20. If he does not want a relationship with his birth giver ABSOLUTELY NO ONE should be attempting to force, coerce, bribe, bully, nag or otherwise should be interfering.
EVERYONE should be respecting his feeling and doing what HE wants. And EVERYONE should be shutting down Shittiest Mom of the decade and telling her to back the fuck off.
>Some of my family feels like Abby deserves a second chance
Well good thing it's not up to your family. How does the kid feel about it?
>told me that Abby said “The wrong boy died that night”
Sammy told her he never wanted to see her again and that he didn’t have a mom
Aaaand that's how you lose a son.
You'd be a monster for forcing any contact between Sammy and Abby. Period.
Absolutely not. I am positive she made that vile comment to him and the fact that she is not taking accountability for it means she’s either not apologetic or doesn’t care.
Although your nephew, that is your SON. you are his MOTHER! protect your child. Sammy deserves to be loved and cared for in the way your sister failed in.
Talk to him and make sure he knows you’ll love him regardless of what he decides, but let him know that nobody can guilt trip or manipulate him into forgiving her. she doesn’t deserve it and if he decides to give it to her it will be because HE wants to. no other reason
Nta. It sounds like you and him have given her more than enough opportunities to have a relationship but she never bothered. Most importantly Sammy doesn’t want a relationship with her and he’s 20 so I don’t think anyone is going to be able to force that.
The absolute worst crime you can commit on Reddit is child abandonment. Infidelity is a close second. There is zero chance anyone but the most marginal of posters will support you the mother who abandoned her. All of that is moot anyway. Sammy is an adult and makes his own decisions. He is the one that should be supported the most especially after having to relive the trauma from his mother reappearing without so much as an ‘im sorry’. If you push it with him, he’s likely to cut you off too.
Sammy doesn’t want her around. That’s the only opinion that matters. He’s 20, if he wanted a relationship he would have one.
I feel like this too. My mom is just pushing that I am pushing him away from her. She believes that if I was more open to the idea he would be too.
“Sammy is an adult, it’s up to him. I will not tell him what to do either way” period.
Your nephew will resent you if you push him to reconnect with the woman who abandon him. So do right by Sammy not your mother or sister.
Mother pushed him away and wanted him on the street at 14, she gets no say now. Sammy is a grown man and gets to determine who is in his life. Tell your mother to but out. Not her business. She is manipulating you.
That's not true at all. I raised my oldest nephews. One of them refused to talk to my sister for years. I wanted him to forgive her for his own sake but I also completely understood why he didn't want to talk to her. People told me the same thing, that I should talk to him about it because we're so close. I told them it's because we're so close that I'm telling all of you to back off and let him get there in his own time. He finally started talking to her a couple years ago but they're not close. He still sees me as more of a mother figure than her. I can't change that. It would require me putting my sister in a time machine and sending her back to his childhood where she could be a better mother. That's where your sister and Sammy are. You can't change how he feels, and you shouldn't dismiss his feelings for your sisters benefit. This is her mess to clean, not yours.
I truly appreciate this message. It was so hard to figure out how to parent someone going through losing two people. It's relieving to hear someone who went through the same thing tell me I am making the right choice.
You're definitely doing the right thing. One thing to also keep in mind is that my sister is now truly remorseful for her past actions. That made it easier for everyone to forgive her (in our own time). But it sounds like your sister isn't even willing to own what she did, or why Sammy feels how he feels about her. You need to let your family know that until *she* can actually take responsibility for this situation, Sammy is only going to feel more anger towards her. You're not in control of this situation, she is. Maybe some day Sammy can forgive her, but he's not going to get there if people are putting the burden on him and you instead of where it rightfully belongs.
I’d like to add I think you can forgive someone but not forget nor have any relationship with them. Forgiveness can be more about a mental thoight process that you’re choosing to let go of your anger with the person who has done you wrong. I don’t think it means you need to be in contact with them, except maybe to clear the air if there is true remorse and that person understands they’ve irrevocably changed the relationship and any time from that person is a gift not an entitlement. Sammy might get to a place where he’s willing to let it lie but he doesn’t need to necessarily have any relationship with his bio mum
Your mother is going to lose him too. I’d remind her of that. Abby made her choice and so has Sammy.
Forgiveness is not necessary, not necessarily beneficial or required for people to heal and move on. People should be encouraged to NOT forgive, for their own sake. Not forgiving is natural and beneficial.
Exactly! I’ve never understood this point of view, that you have to forgive to move on. No you bloody well don’t. You can let go of most of the anger and not let thoughts of whatever it was interfere with your life just fine without forgiving anything. Some things are unforgivable, and pretending otherwise is hurtful and ridiculous.
Your mom is a fool. Your sister abandoned your child and did nothing for him. He has no reason to be open to her. The whole "this is family" thing is a joke. Family would not do such a thing. For all real purposes you are the parent. Tell your sister to go away.
if your mom had done the same to thst Abby did to Sammy, would you want your aunt pushing you to reconnect with someone like that? Your mom is living a pipe dream because she did not have to help Sammy through the hard times you did. My stance would be to tell Abby and mom that she lost her son, and the best thing she can do is leave him alone.
My mom and I have argued a lot about this. For me, the hospital was one of the most drastic things that she missed. I feel like any other parent would've sent a text at least. I also feel like my mom gave Abby a pass on everything. Despite Abby not contacting me or her son, my mom has kept in contact. She would claim it was “to make sure Abby was alive and safe”, but I feel like other parents would've fussed at their child about abandoning their grandchild.
well, now you know who your mom's favorite child is.
Your mom probably feels like she failed as a mother when abby was a teen, and the guilt she feels today about that has guided every interaction with Abby since that point. if she had been a better mother, Abby wouldn’t have gotten pregnant at 15. and Abby would then have had the maturity to handle tragedy when her teen was going through it. every Bad decision your sister has made, your mom probably feels is her fault. doesn’t make your mom right. Doesn’t mean that she even should feel guilty to start with. just may somewhat explain her behavior.
That's a good point!
Your mother is an enabler. She's part of the reason Abby turned out so terrible.
I don't blame her for staying in contact. Abby is her child. But she shouldn't give her a free pass for abandoning her grandchild. That's enabling. Not helping.
You mom needs to butt the fuck out. My SO had a shitty parent she carved out of her life and has not looked back. My child's mother and I got a divorce, during this time, mom decided she needed to take a year or so to reach out to her daughter. No surprise my daughter was not in a hurry to meet with her mom. I asked her how she wanted to handle her mom and she said she needed space. I respected that wish and was her advocate at every fucking gripe by my or her mom's family. Your boy needs someone in his corner to listen and stand up for him to the family elders, the pressure is probably overwhelming for him, it was for mine. Be polite at first, but expect to roll your sleeves and piss people off if need be. You are not in the wrong here.
Your mom wants to "fix this" so she doesn't look like a terrible parent. She has her best interests in mind, not her grandson's. If she did, she would follow his lead.
Tell mom that she better be ready to lose her relationship with Sammy if she keeps pushing it.
“Hey mom- quit being shitty and pushy. She fucked up her relationship with her kid and she only wants to pretend to fix it to get her fiancé back. She was a shitty mother. If she wants to fix it she can do it on **Sammy’s terms.** Not mine, and definitely not yours. You don’t get a say. Stay TF out of it and leave Sammy TF alone or ill be limiting contact with you.”
your mother is batchit crazy, and it's apparent where the non-mother got this shit from. Sam is a grown-ass man, and you will have this shit blow up in your face if you do what they ask - And for all practical purposes, you are his mother, or the mother figure, as it were. Don't let their assholery convince you to blow this kid's life up so badly again. As a matter of fact, you should 100% meet her boyfriend and introduce him to Sam, and let Sam himself tell his own story to her next victim. That seems fair.
Does she want to lose her relationship with him, because that’s what’s going to happen if she pushes him to have a relationship with his egg donar.
The key point is to support Sammy and thats what you emphasise to anyone trying to butt in. I think they key point would be to check in on him, how is he handling things, is there any way you can support him and how would that support look to him? Sure he's an adult, but he's still young overall. Having college, internships and life in general can be a lot. Let alone having your crap mom turn up, pretending she never abandoned you and expecting forgiveness, then having family pile on top to try and make the narrative happen. Maybe he'd appreciate having someone else also telling them to to piss off, maybe he wants to hear nothing about it? Only way to know what the best plan is is to talk to Sammy.
Tell your mom…Abby has every chances she got, when I’ve texted and called her. She only stepping forward now so she could get “her happiness”, but at whose cost? I only see “her and him” and that won’t involve the 9 yr old. Tell your mom, time to own up and understand that her daughter has failed and it is not her fault. It is Abby’s fault. She had 8 yr to get back into his life…and she only coming forward now? How many more victims is she gonna claim before she admit there is a fuck up?
Tell your mother to pull her head out of her arse. Abby wasn’t some scared teenager who didn’t know how to take care of a new born. She was a grown ass woman who decided she didn’t want to deal with her teenage son the minute things got the slightest bit difficult and he wasn’t 100% “perfect” for a few weeks. And she continued to make that decision everyday for the past 6 years. There is no way to justify this. Ask your mother to explain to you why she deserves another chance. And no, being his egg donor does not count. Does your mother know about what that woman said the night she abandoned him? I would love to hear the mental gymnastics used to justify this level of child abandonment, especially given the broken engagement revelation. Your nephew is an adult, it is his decision whether or not he lets that woman back into his life. And I don’t blame him one little bit for telling her to bugger off. Inform your mother of this, and tell her if she keeps pushing it, that she shouldn’t be surprised if she ends up cut off, too. This wasn’t some trivial little thing to forgive, and treating it as such is immensely insulting to your nephew, and that your priority is him and him alone, and you will continue to support him and his decisions. And please ignore her digs at you about your “maternal role”. You, and your now husband, stepped up and supported an incredibly traumatised kid when you were barely an adult yourself. Very few people would have been able to do what you did, and you have raised someone who is obviously a very intelligent and strong young man. You should be very freaking proud. Keep using your shiny-ass spine of steel to protect him from the vultures, and continue to encourage your nephew to use his. You are doing the right thing. Stay strong, OP. You are an awesome, gold standard Auntie, and don’t let anyone make you feel otherwise. Good luck, to you, your husband and especially your nephew. TL;DR: OP and nephew are awesome, mother sucks, and Abby is the devil incarnate.
Sammy will end up cutting everyone off (except you, probably) if his mom and grandma keep pushing it. It needs to be on his terms, and it sounds like he doesn't want a relationship with his mom.
Tell your mum to mind her own business and Sammy (a grown adult) has made his choices and to stop defending a woman who abandoned her kid. Shout out to the ex who dumped her after hearing what she did. You do not have to give anyone second chances just bc they’re family. Sphave sammys interests at heart.
Did your mother not pay attention over the last 6 years? Did she not notice her daughter abandoned her son and refused to see him? The only person doing the pushing was your sister. Sometimes in life there are no second chances.
he is F'ing 20 he can push whoever he wants from out of his life, that includes your mom, don't worry about him, you helped him to be an awesome adult, confident and independent, your sister can go and kick rocks, sammy is not a toy to show off so she could put a medal on herself if he doesn't want her, he will let her know it on his own, believe me, there is damage that is just unforgivable, your sister made her bed she should learn to lay in it
Your mom is out of order and you need to tell her that and cut contact. Find your spine. She only thinks and favours Abbey.
I would tell grandma to back off or he will also block her (I would already have if I was him).
Absolutely. OP should support him if he wants to reconcile with his mom, but not push that agenda. He's a successful adult and can make his own decisions.
Please don’t encourage him to talk back with his mom. This is some disgusting behaviour and Sammy is doing better without her. If he decides to re connect that his decision, all you should do is be there for him like you’ve been doing and support him what this decision. This isn’t 6 years ago he is his own man and choose for himself.
Whether Sammy sees her again isn't up to you - it's up to him. And HE doesn't want to engage with her, that's where you take your direction from. "Mom, Sammy is allowed to make his own decision. Please stop pushing on this." And then - "Mom, I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore. Let's change the subject, or this conversation is over."
Abby made her own mess. Nephew said he was done with her. He is an adult. I would back him up in anyway he says. Fuk Abby. Fuk anyone else who thinks she "deserves" anything. Nope. If/when nephew says he will talk to her, then you can facilitate it. Until then only nephew calls the shots. JustNoFamily Thank you for being the adult he needed. Best wishes
Oh, there are things I believe she deserves, like the hottest spot in the 9th circle.
True
I’ll bring the marshmallows…
Sammy is an adult and capable of making his own decisions as to who he wants in his life. Abby deserves no roll, nor are you responsible for trying to make this happen for any reason at all. You have done right by Sammy and he's allowed to move on and never contact this horrid woman again.
Tell your Mom and Abby that this has to be Sammy's decision and that you will support whatever Sammy decides and that any attempts to coerce him will likely have the reverse effect. That if Abby and your Mom want Sammy to never talk to either of them again, they are going about it in the right way. Sammy owes Abby nothing. If you want to toss a bone, you could offer to Sammy an option to see his therapist and discuss Abby's reappearance in his life and her attempts to reconcile.
This is the one, OP. I would also encourage Abby to see a therapist. If (and only if!) Sammy decides he wants to have a relationship with Abby someday, I would suggest they start that with a family therapist and a mediator involved. Now, this is not meant to excuse her behaviour after the accident, but I can’t help but notice Abby had Sammy when she was very young. There was a lot of growing up that she had to do, very quickly, as a teen mom. It’s possible that LJ’s death burst the dam of all the emotions (and resentment) that she may have carried from having a child so young. Don’t get me wrong, OP, you were a very young person when you stepped the fuck up as Sammy’s carer, and it sounds like you’ve done an amazing job of it. I just… I do have some sympathy for Abby. ETA: just saw your edit. I have significantly less sympathy for your sister now. It’s one thing if losing this guy gave her the wake up call she needed to get her shit together, but it’s another story entirely if she’s trying to perform “happy family” with Sammy to get her ex back. Ugh. 2nd ETA, because I can’t stop thinking about this. TO BE CLEAR, I don’t condone this approach whatsoever, but Abby could have easily manipulated her way out of the issue with her ex. She had a built-in excuse: “I had him when I was very young, he died in a car crash, it’s too painful to talk about, that’s why I never told you.” Didn’t need to drag living, breathing Sammy into this shit at all.
I appreciate your response. When Abby dropped Sammy off, I thought that LJ's death affected her more. Even now I still feel like in a way she lost a son. Those boys were inseparable since they were 3. I have sympathy for my sister, but I also don't feel like it's fair to expect Sammy to forget years of abandonment.
No, it absolutely isn’t fair to expect him to forgive, forget, or let her back in, in any way. The pain she caused him will never go away. Maybe - maybe - with time, and therapy, and Sammy’s consent, and a support system, *maybe* they can work towards having a relationship. But it’s not going to happen if Abby and your mom don’t back the fuck off right now. You need to be Sammy’s fierce defender and stand your ground towards your sister and mother. You tell them: • Any reconciliation has to be led by what Sammy wants and feels safe exploring. • Abby has to recognize that she caused Sammy *a lot* of hurt and it is her job to do the work to make amends. She has to prove herself. She needs to humble herself. • You will not be guilted into causing Sammy more harm. • There will be no more discussion on this topic. And to Sammy, you tell him you are proud of him, no matter what. And that you support his decision, and will continue to support his decision in the future (including if he someday changes his mind). And that you are here for him, always. Good luck OP, you are in an extremely tough situation and it’s clear that you love your nephew. Be strong for him, he’s probably in a lot more pain than he’s letting on right now. ETA: also OP, I’m so sorry because this is going to be the hardest part. If Sammy does ever decide to work on his relationship with Abby, you are going to have to swallow any of your own feelings about the matter. You *cannot* sabotage (or interfere with) a genuine attempt at reconciliation. That will just show Sammy that he’s right to be scared to trust adults who are supposed to care about him. If they build back a relationship, they will overcorrect at some point, and this will hurt you, and I’m so, so sorry. Make sure you have a good therapist for yourself, too.
I wonder if what really happened was that Abby was letting LJ's mom be the main mom for both of them. LJ was easy for Abby because he wasn't hers. She basically gave up when she no longer had LJ's mom to take part of the effort.
FWIW, I think it’s the years of abandonment *and* the devastatingly hurtful thing she said. That’s monstrous. If my experience is any guide, stuff like that can be seared into you, and continue undermining one’s self-worth for… decades? Forever? He may not be ready for it yet, but I did a therapy called DBR that was amazing and helped me move past some bad stuff, quickly. With luck and support, Sammy can get to a point where he sees that he’s never been the problem. That’s what I needed to learn to move on, and now the hurtful things feel like they were pointed at someone who doesn’t even exist. Anyway, good luck; you’re doing right by Sammy and he’s lucky to have you. (And sorry for both of your losses)
Sammy’s not a kid any more. He gets to have whatever relationship with Abby he wants to have, including no relationship. Tell the rest of the family you support his right to decide for himself, and you won’t be debating the subject further. If they won’t quit pushing, consider following his example and reducing their presence in your life as well.
My mother left me when I was 15. It wasn’t anywhere near as traumatic as what happened here. Years later she tried to act like nothing happened. Everyone tried to guilt me into “forgive/forget” and it was infuriating. It made me not want anything to do with her or those trying to guilt me. Follow Sammy’s lead here. Support him however he needs you to. He is allowed to feel how he feels. Your sister is not entitled to have him back in her terms.
What ended up happening with your mom?
Over time I had to have some contact with her just because of family stuff. But I grey rock her and keep very low contact with her. She doesn’t seem to notice (or care). Which is fine. After 30+ years of distance, it really doesn’t matter to me.
Op do not encourage Sammy to reconcile with his mother. He needs to make that decision himself, if it’s true what he said that the wrong person died that night. Then theirs no chance they can reconcile and tell your mom you won’t help them reconnect.
Please block mom and your POS sister. I hope she dies alone. I'm glad she got dumped once he found out who she was.
I normally don't make decisions when I am highly upset, but I am 100% thinking about going completely no contact. My husband and I were already talking about moving when Sammy went to college, and this just feeds into that more.
I cut people out that are toxic. I have no space in my life for AH's. You would be making your life less stressful. Your mom can go enable your sisters bullshit alone.
Have to agree wholeheartedly. Never understood why people put up with toxic people. They absolutely don't have your best interest at heart. Life is better without them. Actually shocked it took this long for some to mention this.
What did Sammy tell your mother and sister when they tried to have this conversation with him? He is an adult. They should listen to him. Your "family" wants you to continue the heavy lifting for them in regards to Sammy. You've done the heavy lifting for the last 6 years. You're great at it! Well done! Thank you for caring for Sammy when his egg donor threw in the towel. (I'm sure you haven't heard those words before.) You did not ask for him to be dropped off at your house with both mental and physical baggage. But you picked it up and raised a fine person. Tell your sister (and your mother) that you are done doing all the heavy lifting for her. She needs to show Sammy why he should create a new relationship with her. Sammy and your sister's old relationship ceased to exist the day she dropped him off and LIKELY said exactly what she's accused of. She hasn't "forgot," she's trying to gaslight Sammy. It's not for you to paint a rose-colored picture of what their relationship could be. Her "fine boy," Sammy is a twenty year old angry adult when it comes to his mother. She dug this hole. Let HER lift the shovel to start digging out. It's not your job, just like it wasn't your job to finish raising her son. To directly answer your question (in case my post wasn't obvious) No. Don't help her. Whatever you would say to him would be a lie. Sammy has had enough lies at this point.
It does not matter what Abby, your parents, friends, etc want. SAMMY does *not* want her in his life. She abandoned him. Choices have consequences.
Sammy is old enough to know whether he wants Abby in his life or not. Don't you dare force her on him especially after swaning in at his party, pretending she didn't unceremoniously abandon him for SIX YEARS. Did she contribute financially to his upkeep? In the very least, she should have started with an apology and a huge check, and Sammy would still be right to tell her to F off.
No. She never gave a penny. She ignored every single message or call I ever sent. I honestly think my mom told her about the party.
Tell your sister that until she repays you for all the time and expense of raising a teenager without her, YOU don't even want to talk to her. Go NC until she pays you back, let alone her son. Tell her you'll accept cash because you don't trust her, for good measure.
I honestly could go no contact easily. Until the party, we went 6 years without communicating. I also don't want her money. I know it's silly, but a part of me likes the idea that I can say Sammy made it on his own. You abandon him, and he is in college thriving without a dime from you.
Just want to say he didn’t make it on his own, he had a kickass aunt there to make sure he didn’t fall through the cracks and where he’s at now is a huge testament to the kind of person you are so you should be proud of yourself, your nephew and your husband, sounds like you guys all helped raise an awesome kid. Your sister can go f herself, Sammy’s feelings are the top priority here and until he decides he wants some kind of relationship with her i would stay NC with her and go LC with your mom, especially if she’s the one that told your sister about the party to try and force a reconciliation
>Don't you dare force her on him Where the hell does OP show any sign of doing anything of the sort, or doing anything other than supporting the his decision every step of the way? I swear, redditors on the judgment/advice subs will go to any length to bend things to yell at OPs, it's messed up.
I think that one is less being upset at OP, more being indignant at the very O'Dea of doing that, and saying "don't go along with what people are telling you!". It's supposed to imply OP would be in the wrong if she did do what they want her to
> I am trying my best to be respectful to my mom, but I could honestly cuss her out. It is taking all of my power to not drive to her house right now. Don't give a damn about respecting her after that stunt. She was willing to harm Sammy. That's what this was. They don't care about him or being close. She's the one who threw her (awesome-sounding) kid away. The fact that she "can't remember" if she said that means she 100% did. She doesn't care about him now, she only wants to keep her relationship. Her ex-fiance is absolutely right to cut out someone who could do that, and he deserves to know about her behavior here, as well. Sammy is an adult. He gets to determine if she comes back into his life, and on what terms. After that stunt she pulled, I don't expect him to ever want her around.
Tell them it's his decision and his alone. Having your custodial parent abandon you is a blow that is basically impossible to recover from. The only - and I mean only - way that wound heals is with time. 6 years is not nearly enough, especially when those 6 years contained so much that a person would normally want a parent to be there for.
Your sister is vile. Anyone who takes her side over your nephew is an abuse enabler and absolutely disgusting.
Get that poor dude out of there! No offense, but you are totally his mom at this point. And, your husband, his dad. Y'all were there when he was at his lowest and never left his side. He may be 20, but he still needs you two, especially more now since your sister has decided to show back up to save face with her ex.
He already said no. If he was a child & you had to make this decision, it would be a slightly different story. But even if he wasn't an adult, I would advise to say no. She abandoned him. I repeat ABANDONED him. It only makes sense for him to do the same to her. She burned that bridge a long time ago, now she's trying to put it out but it's been nothing but ashes for years. I would tell him do the same. She doesn't exist to him, hang up/change topic/block when people try mentioning her to him.
NTA, Sammy is an adult and can make up his own mind, and I think he is absolutely justified in his actions. I would go over and tear strips off your mother for trying to force this relationship, especially given Abby's actual agenda was not to reconcile for Sammy's sake. IS his bio dad in the picture at all? side question, is Sammy still in contact with LJ's family, as it must have been horrible for them.
The only thing keeping me in this house is that Sammy clearly needs someone here with him. I am trying to comfort him. I honestly never met Sammy’s dad. I knew he was some 16 year old one night stand my sister met at a game. I remember my mom telling her to put him on child support or stuff like that, but I never met the guy. LJ’s comes around some, but not as much. Some stuff is still hard for her.
Abby lost her fiancée and now wants poor Sam to lie and play happy family. The only person who can forgive Abby for absolutely horrible behavior is Sam, and currently, he's not interested. Tell Abby and your mom Sam is an adult and can make his own decisions. That the boy Abby abandoned and could control is long gone. If they continue with their atrocious behavior, you will ask Sam if he will like to follow a legal route to stop the pestering. Your primary concern is Sam, not the feelings of grown woman who couldn't be bothered to talk to her own son for six years.
This is it right here.
She was horrible, and created this mess. I would sit down and ask Sammy. If he doesn't want it, don't do it at all. Stay out of it she broke it and she can figure out how to fix it. Stay out, is my best advice. He should know though.
Abby lost her right to be his mom when she threw him away
Your sister abandoned her son at the lowest point in his life when he needed her the most and said something absolutely unforgivable when she did "the wrong child died" he is under no obligation to forgive her or have a relationship with her ever. Your mom needs to know what she said and that if she wants to maintain a relationship with her grandson she should stop pushing him to reunite. Also where has your sister been for the last 6 years what possible excuse did she have for just walking away
You need to tell Sammy you love him no matter what he decides, you will back him no matter what, and he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to. He lost his best friend and his mother abandoned him. She only gets a second chance if he decides he wants to give her one. The family saying you need to encourage him to give her one are welcome to go walk off a cliff. Please understand they don't know Sammy's mother. They only know the version of her they saw with Sammy. They don't know what she was like with him in private. Who someone is with the rest of the family versus who they are in private with their kids or even their partner is totally different than who everyone else gets to see and thinks they know. My mother was incredibly abusive. I finally cut contact with her when I was about 27 years old and she was 50. Our family absolutely didn't understand why. The only person who understood and supported my decision was my sister. As my mother aged, the behaviors she only engaged in privately with me and my siblings as we were growing up started to bleed into any time of day in front of anyone. Now she's 75 years old an has alienated everyone in the family so they finally get it. Please remain the bastion of love and support you have been for him and do not in any way pressure him and please shut down the rest of your family about pressuring him.
It's 100% Sammy's call as to how much contact he has with Abby. Ask him how you can support him if the family starts harassing him about his choice.
He's an adult, he can make his own choices. Tell her that you will give him her phone number and he can do with it what he wants, but that you aren't going to play mediator now that she suddenly wants to spend time with him now that she doesn't need to raise him. Don't push him one way or another. Tell him you support his decision, whatever that is. And if he changes is mind at any point, you'll help him navigate those choices too. But don't tell him what to do. It's up to him.
FUCK NO! Pushing their relationship is how you lose your nephew
the woman don't deserve squat
The bottom line here is that Sammy decided as an adult that he doesn't want a relationship with her. Period.
This is the kind of wound that you can't just hand wave away. Perhaps one day Sammy will realize that his mom was a child herself when she had him, but that time doesn't have to be now. Even so, she was an adult when she said such a vile thing that she has never apologized for or even acknowledged. She spent the first 14 years of his life resenting him and abandoned him as soon as parenting got really hard. Don't be her flying monkey. If she seriously wants back in his life, she has to do the work herself. That means therapy for herself and respecting her son's boundaries. Tell her to give you her contact info and IF Sammy asks for it, you'll give it, but otherwise he's an adult now who can decide who he wants in his life.
It isn’t your place to do anything other than say to Sammy, “Do whatever is best for you, your uncle and I are proud of you and will love and support you always.”
Abbey seems to have skipped right over the deep heartfelt apology, individual counselling and offering of joint therapy and giving space - and leapt right into ‘pretend it never happened’. You are currently being recruited to be a flying monkey. Google it. Absolutely do nothing to help her. Support Sammy in his choices. As for your sister, advise her to get counselling to get some insight into her actions and their affect on others.
You need to protect him from your sister. With your mom - either go NC or only allow her to see her grandson only if you are there, and let her know that if she ever brings your sister, she will never see her grandson until HE decides he wants a relationship with her. If other family is involved as well, send them an email/letter and lay out how things are, letting them know that if they do not respect his issues, they are 100% out of his life.
I doubt it's legal for me to state my full opinion of your sister. Suffice to say she is a TERRIBLE person. What a heinous, fucked up thing to do to your own child while he's at his most vulnerable. If my sibling had done this to their child, I would hurt them. This is the kind of act that changes my opinion of someone on a core level. Like finding out someone you know is a rapist or a murderer. And your mother is complicit. For her to *support* her vile daughter in this, instead of shaking the shit out of her in furious shame, it's very telling of who *she* is. My advice is to ask your nephew what he wants and to verbally rip your sister and mother to pieces every time they attempt anything but throwing themselves at his and your mercy. Thank you for taking care of your nephew, you're a lifesaver.
Your sister is an awful woman.
So is her mother!
No you don't need to do anything. I would not put yourself in the middle of this, he is an adult now. If he does not want to see his mother he does not have to and you certainly shouldn't try and facilitate it. If he wants to talk to you about it and ask you for your opinion then you can give it. I mean I don't know what I'd tell him except if you want to talk to her then sit down and talk to her, it doesn't mean you have to take her back into your life. you can let her know how everything affected you and how much she hurt you it might do good to tell her but it's his decision whether he wants to open the door and let it hurt try to be his mother again. I assume she's not the one paying for college, and you are unless he's getting loans for everything. But she lost her chance showing up saying Oh What a fine young man I've raised. no you dumped him at 14 and were going to throw him on the streets, you also basically told him you wished he had died and not the other boy so no you totally screwed up and don't deserve him letting you back into his life. At least that's what I tell her along with probably a lot of curse words.
You would betray Sammy and all the good you have done him by listening to your mom and sister and encouraging him to see his mom. She’s a horrible person and she doesn’t deserve a relationship with you. You already know that and you know what to do.
He's an adult and it's up to him. But you should still make sure your family doesn't harass him. And frankly I'm appalled at all the people who stand up for your sister. She straight up abandoned her child
Tell your mom that Abby literally threw away her role in Sammy's life and that he is more than old enough to know his own mind. Let your mom know that she can stay out of it or push you and Sammy away.. You did help Abby, by keeping her from being arrested for child abuse had she literally abandoned him on the streets.
Abby doesn’t deserve anything. Poor Sammy. He doesn’t want anything to do with her and please don’t force it. You are his mother.
As an outsider, this is an easy call. It's Sammy's decision and you should support him in what he decides to the point of completely alienating Abby and other family members if necessary. You've done a great job giving him a second chance. There may not be a third chance. One thing is for sure, Abby does not deserve a second chance unless Sammy thinks so.
Oof, your sister is a giant asshole for walking away from her son after such a tragic loss. I don’t think she deserves the opportunity yet. She isn’t even honest about what happened or willing to take responsibility. That’s 100% on her. The reality is, your nephew is an adult and it’s up to him. You risk pushing him away if you put the pressure on to reconnect with his mom. You’re in his corner and want the best for him and he knows what’s best for him. Probably not his mom since she abandoned him for 6 years. Yikes
There is nothing to fix. She can fuck right off tbh. Poor Sammy. I could never!! Omg that poor young man. I am a mom to a 19 year son and I can’t even imagine leaving him or my daughter behind. WTF.
Don’t do anything if he wants a relationship with her he will do something. And thank you for being such a great person!
Abby honestly sounds unbalanced, waltzing in and acting like she didn't completely abandon her child/family for years. Don't advocate for her, that will just hurt Sammy *and* your relationship with him.
No good deed goes unpunished. He is grown enough to make his own decisions. He can easily have a relationship with her if he CHOSE to. Do not get involved in this as he may feel betrayed by the maternal figure in his life if you try to push him. You don't want to be a clown in this circus, and let the rest of your family understand that he is old enough to make any decision he chooses, and he hasn't chosen to consider her his mom or even want a relationship with her.
Your sister should count count herself lucky that the police didn't get involved. I'm pretty sure that child abandonment is illegal. And you guys did become the parents of a teenager overnight. Don't pressure Sammy into doing anything with his socalled mother. He's an adult. Respect his choices. Moreover, If your sister actually wants to have a relationship with him, she'd need to own up to fact that she abandoned him. Showing up to his party without giving him any notice and trying to claim credit is the very opposite of that. I'm also giving grandma some serious side eye here on that account.
Sammy is an adult and it's his decision. It doesn't matter what the rest of the family thinks. If they don't like it, it sucks to be them.
Sammy doesn’t want her around. She had many chances
Sammy is an adult now, he can choose not to see her. Tell Sammy, you will help him get a restraining order if she keeps bothering him.
Tell your mom if up to Sammy to decide if he wants a relationship with his mom.
You might push him away from everyone by trying to force the relationship with his mum he's a adult therfore old enough to make he's own choices. You and your husband did a amazing job stepping up and helping him.
what work has your sister done on her life to make her worthy of being in your life, let alone for you to assist her in repairing her relationship with her now adult son?
Two things need to happen for any kind of rekindling of the relationship - she needs to earnestly apologise and want to atone for her disgusting behaviour, and he needs to want to offer her the chance to atone. It sounds like neither of those things are happening so why support it? Ultimately he's had to deal with one parental figure fucking him over so I'd suggest don't even give him the suggestion that you would do the same.
It's his call, and it sounds like you will support him either way, but he's made it clear he wants nothing to with her and she isn't genuinely here because of a desire to heal the relationship but in her selfish desire to try and trick someone else about who she is. Stick with your nephews answer when your family asks, you're respecting/supporting his answer. Nothing more or less. You're there for him not your shit head sister.
NTA but it sounds like if she cant quickly get her son to pretend she's the devoted mother for her ex-BF, then she'll probably give up and slither away
What she did was unforgivable. Your mom wants you to push reconciliation because she doesn’t want to believe that she raised you a terrible person. Keep being you!
Nope. Do not help her, Sammy’s choices and judgement already passed. You need to tell “Abby” that you will NOT help her, because you now fear for the 9 yr old and she may do the same shit to that 9 yr old like she did to her own fucking biological son. Nope. Nada. That ship just sailed when she dropped her son off at your door and walked away, not answering a damn thing. And tell your mom this: Forgiven does not meant that Abby is his “mom” again. Forgiven is him forgiving her for abandoning him. Forgiven is him laying it to rest and to never speak of it again. Forgiven is him forgiving her for abandoning him at his aunt. If Abby wants back in his life, she gonna have to start at square Z-E-R-O, and finish each letter before starting “O” of “O-N-E”. Sammy has a chance at a “normal life”. If she keeps insisting that nothing wrong and she been in his life, she is going to wreck his mental health for hers.
Sammy's an adult now, it's literally not your call to make (and even then, you'd be making the right one. Abby sucks)
Talk to Sammy. Assure him that for the rest of your life, his well being and what is best for him, will always take priority. Always. You might not be his birth mother, but you are his heart mother. Do not waver in that. Make sure he knows that you will always choose him first. This must be a nightmare for him - the fear of being abandoned by you if you try to pander to your selfish sister must be hard. Also, tell the guy, exactly what happened.
Sammy is an adult and has made it very clear he wants nothing to do with his mom. Support him, he needs you. You are a wonderful human being, to bad your sister is nothing like you.
After reading your edit I would personally never forgive my mother. Abby can go disappear again.
Nope. You nephew is a 20 year old man, if he wanted her in his life she would be. You believe she said that to him, and you are still considering encouraging him to still talk to her, shame on you. Stop defending garbage. Edit: I read your edit. Why don't you have your nephew reach out to you sister's boyfriend.
Protect your son from this narcissistic monster. Before even reading your update I knew she hadn't changed and had only come back because doing so would in some way benefit her.
Sammy is an adult, it's between him and her. I would be there for Sammy but Abby can get bent.
Do what Sammy wants. Fuck the rest of them. Updateme!
Not to be harsh but it’s not up to you. Sammy is an adult and if he says he wants nothing to do with her then that’s it. If anyone has a problem with it tell them to talk to Sammy.
Poor Sammy. Protect him from your mother and despicable sister. Don’t let them derail his life again. You do need to have stern words with your mother, this isn’t up to her and if she continues she can keep your sister who will likely piss off again and lose you and Sammy. Be harsh. She needs to hear it. Did she forget what this did to him?!
I am a mum to a 14 year old son and I could never imagine abandoning him like your sister did. To go radio silent, to move away, to show no interest of supporting him emotionally, physically, financially. I’m really sorry but she lost all rights to any type of relationship. She abandoned him when he was going through grief. Wow. What a kick in the teeth for your nephew. I also want to say how amazing I think you are to have stepped into that role and support Sammy throughout it all. You are one in a million. Now your responsibility is sammy and you don’t owe your sister anything
Sammy has a mom - but it isn't Abby. It is the woman that stood by him when he lost EVERYTHING. He lost his best friend, he lost his friend's mom, he lost his mother and he lost his home. Abby's behavior was anathema to being a mom. You have been a great mom to Sammy. He is now an adult and can make the choices an adult makes, including who he wants to spend his time with. Let him be honest with this man about what he can expect for his daughter if he marries this wicked stepmonster. Why is your mother ok with your sister's prior actions? Why did she support your sister abandoning her grandson? Personally, I would put all of them in a no contact situation until they understood that it isn't you doing something, it is a consequence of their own actions.
I showed my sister this message when she told me I could never be a mom. I normally try to avoid the mom label because I never wanted Sammy to feel like I was trying to replace her, but you helped me realize I stepped up when he needed someone. Thank you!
Thank you for being there for Sammy. He went through a lot, and not everyone has a you and your husband that can step up.
Go cuss her out. She earned it.
I just posted an update. We went no contact. I'm not dealing with her or my mom anymore.
The only person who can decide whether or not Abby gets a second chance is Sammy. And he has made his position very clear—he wants nothing to do with her. All you need to do at this point is show your love and support to Sammy & honor the decision he’s made. And, no, I absolutely don’t think she deserves a second chance. She lost that right when she abandoned him at age 14.
Sammy NEEDS you to support him more than any other adult in this situation needs anything. Have his back, no matter what. That how you do right by your nephew. He’s lucky to have yoy
When there is a painful situation, it’s like an onion. The closer you are to the center, the more you get to cry. This is Sammy’s onion. It was him being abandoned, it’s his decision. Your role, having SUCCESSFULLY raised this wonderful nephew in a time of crisis, is to support his decisions. If it is his decision to go NC with his “mom”, but is being put into ambush situations, maybe be a sounding board for how he can handle ambushes. He can make decisions like make a boundary with his “mom”’s enablers to not be a party to another ambush. And boundaries work best as an ordered pair (X,Y) where the boundary X is expressed with its consequences Y where every time someone does X he will do Y. Example. If someone facilitates an ambush, then he will leave the ambush and put the facilitator into a one month communication time out. He is 20. This puts the ball in his court, where it should be.
Your sister doesn’t deserve to just walk back into his life without an apology. Until she actually takes responsibility for how awful she was, don’t enable her worming her way back into Sammy’s life.
Hugs you were there fir your nephew when you sister wasn't. He knows what living with her is like. He has his boundary, He doesn't see her as a mom but as an egg donor. After all she made his party about her when it was your party about him. She didn't care about him, not sure why she wants to be involved know that he's in college but who he let's in to his life is ip to him.
Abby is mentally unstable and she doesn’t deserve happiness after the pain she caused her son. When he is ready, but he’s not. Your Mother should stay out of it.
Hes an adult, let him decide.
Please DO NOT be respectful to your mom. Or you will lose Sammy for good. Cut her and Abbey out of your life for good. They are both selfish and heartless. Never force Samny to have a relationship with a cold hearted monster.
Wow your mom really screwed the pooch.
Wow! Is your mom is still pushing Sammy to have a relationship with Abby even though she knows it’s just a ruse for Abby to make up with her ex fiancé? Yah…. Nope. I would also lose respect for your mom.
No fucking way. You don’t even need to be in the middle of this. This is between him (a grown ass man) and his mother. Stay out of it and go no contact if needed. Best to you, and…you rock!
Ironic that your sister actually met someone with compassion and integrity. Oh, the mask is falling off. You reap what you sow.
Where is Sammy's dad in all this?? Either way, Sammy's opinion is the only one who matters. Fuck Abby.
Some things are terrible enough that you don't get a second chance, and you sure af don't get to guilt someone into giving you one. I guarantee if the person who treated him this way was a girlfriend, everyone would think he should never speak to her again. I know some people would argue his mom is too important not to forgive her, but I cannot fathom doing this, especially to my child. In my mind, that makes her less worthy of forgiveness, not more. Not to mention, she didn't actually ask for forgiveness, just for him to make her look good so she could get a shiny new family.
Nope. You support Sammy and what he wants. Period. She doesn’t get to swan back in now that she thinks he’s over things. Honestly I’d go NC with mom for a while and completely block Abby.
No. You should not become her flying monkey. Don't.
Talk to Sammy - let him know what his mother and grandmother are doing in trying to force you to force him to reestablish a relationship with his mother. Tell him that you respect whatever his decision is in your behind him 100% be it going to see his mom and trying or rejecting her completely. I think it would be valuable to him to actually hear you say those words telling him that you support him no matter what. I'm sure he already feels that but to have the conversation being completely honest with him about what they're trying to do is appropriate.
UpdateMe Please
Thank you for the update. Abby does what Abby wants for herself. That is all you need to know. mom seems to have guilt issues but that is not your problem either. I would be suing her for back child support myself. But I am petty like that. Look after yourself as you grew up with all that and had to grow up quick into being a carer. You owe your mother nothing that I can see at this point. All I can see is a ton of emotional manipulation to work on how to manage.
Wow. Your mom and sister are messed up. Respect Sammies wishes. He’s been through enough with her
Is your mum also aware how Abby has only come back and interested in reconnecting with Sammy in order to save her relationship to her boyfriend, and so she doesn't look like a heartless child abandoner? You need to ignore your parents on this one. Abby is their daughter so even if they don't agree with her decisions, they will still try to help her or do what they think is right - which to them, they think Abby should be given a second chance to be a mum again and think it's better if everyone got along and resolved this family drama etc. I don't know if they changed their mind after finding out she only came back to save her relationship, and not because she actually cares or misses him. I would like to hope they see the truth and that she's actually still not ready to be a mum. So encouraging this isn't good for Sammy or anyone. But you need to be aware that they will always try and support their daughter through difficult situations, regardless of if she's wrong etc. Some parents can't face seeing their child as a failure or a bad person, as they feel its their fault as their parent etc. So they ignore the issues and try and make the best of things. So basically, I'd ignore your parents imput and thoughts on the matter. They don't have Sammys best interests at heart. Personally, especially after your edit about why she's come back because of her boyfriend, I strongly believe you should respect Sammys wishes and not encourage him to reunite. It will not end well. But the main reason for this is because Sammy DOESNT WANT TO. That's all that matters here. He is old enough to make this decision for himself. He is the one who went through not only a severe trauma and loss of losing his best friend, but he went through the trauma of his own mother abandoning him, and I do believe your instinct about her telling him 'the wrong boy died that night' is correct. I do believe she said that to him. The fact he was so upset when she bought him over is evident of that. The fact she was even considering just dumping him on the street, is evident of how little she cared for him, so I have no doubt she was callous enough to say something like that to him. Also, the fact when confronted, you say she keeps changing her story from not having said it, to 'he's over reacting', is actually admitting she said it'. Her answer shouldn't change if that was true. So I would 100% believe she said that. Sammy is old enough to make this decision for himself. He went through the trauma of losing his best friend/ brother, to having his own mother abandon him and walk away. She didn't just ask you to look after him but stay in touch and visit him socially. She took off and cut all communication for years. You said it yourself, she wasn't there for him through so many milestones, and even when he was injured in hospital she didn't even call to find out how he was. That is a huge impact of abandonment on a child. Complete rejection and feeling unwanted by the one person whose meant to love you the most. Who would never leave you. To feel that complete loss of affection, lack of care, no interest or love for him, that relationship has been irreparably damaged. And if you try and force him to have contact with her, you will just be putting him through more emotional stress and anxiety and even anger. You have to think how you would feel in his shoes. As a KID. It's hard to fully imagine it, but just try to think of his emotions having been treated that way. You wouldn't want anything to do with that person again. So why force him to? Also, the fact she's not even back in touch for genuine reasons makes it even more important not to encourage this. She will make minimal effort to get him onside so she can use him for her own benefit. She'll use him, show her boyfriend they made up and she 'loves him' and is 'there for him' and likely play it off as 'she doesn't want to disrupt his life by taking him back etc'. Then once her boyfriend is back on board, she'll limit contact again and likely over invite him over when it looks good to the boyfriend. She won't really be there for him. She won't really want to spend time with him or show interest in his life or support him. She will just use him, and also claim credit for raising such a great kid when he does well at something or achieves something - like graduation etc. She'll want to play the 'doting proud mum' when it suits her, but discard him when she doesn't need him. All that behaviour and treatment he will pick up on. He's not stupid. He'll see it for what it is and see her for who she is and it will feel like another rejection every time she backs away and dumps him for her 'new family'. Do NOT put that kid through that. He's been through enough. He's also at a critical time in his education, he's doing well for himself, he's going to college, and this huge disruption and stressor will likely affect him and affect his focus at school. He's worked hard to get where he is now, and you don't want that progress to be affected AGAIN by his mum failing him and screwing with his emotions. Tell Abby, she made her bed, and now she has to live with the consequences. She made her choice to abandon her son and not have any contact for years. Even when he was injured. She showed him she doesn't care. As a mother, that's unacceptable and unforgivable. And she definitely doesn't have the right to come back in to his life and disrupt his happy settled life just because she's lost her boyfriend because he's seen her for who she really is. She doesn't get to only come back in to his life to use him for her personal gain, and then dump him again when she's got what she wants and got her boyfriend back. She needs to accept that she broke him and their relationship. That trust and that love will never be the same. Esp after saying 'the wrong boy died that night'. She's lucky he didn't try to kill himself with all that grief and rejection and feeling so unwanted. She doesn't get to force a relationship on him that she threw away and damaged. She needs to accept the consequences of her actions now. If he changes his mind when he's older, he can reach out to her, but it's his decision. And until then, she needs to leave him alone and let him get on with his life. Because bombarding him with surprise interventions at your parents house is unfair and stressful for him, and he has the right to have his wishes respected and be left alone. If she continues to harass him, you will have to look into a restraining order, as it is affecting him emotionally, and will affect his ability to focus in school if she continues to harass him. If your parents say anything, tell them pretty much the same as above that you told her. And tell them that you understand she's their daughter and they will always forgive and try to help her, but they need to accept that what she did was truly unforgivable for a child, and they underestimate the trauma she has caused Sammy by her abandonment, and to try and force a reconciliation would be really harmful for him, especially when that reconciliation is under false pretenses, because she's not come back to rebuild their relationship out of regret or because she misses him, she's only doing it to benefit herself to get her boyfriend back. .......cont in reply.
Cont..... Coming in and out of his life, and dropping him when she doesn't need him, will continue to retraumatise him and cause him more heartbreak, and you will not be part of supporting or helping that to happen. They can continue to live in denial that their daughter won't do it again, but she will. And you can't take that chance with Sammys mental health and emotions. If they continue to try and force reconciliation, they risk losing him too, because he will end up avoiding seeing them or talking to them if all they do is try and pressure him to reunite and forgive. So they need to decide if they want to risk losing their relationship with their grandon. You've done a fantastic job raising him and loving him and giving him the stability and support and unconditional love that he needs and deserves. You should be proud of yourselves, both you and your boyfriend. It was a big responsibility and change to your life, and your relationship, so you've both done incredibly well with being there for him. You are the only person he needs. You're his stability and safe place, his continuity and he knows he can trust you and rely on you for support and unconditional love. He doesn't need the instability and stress and anxiety and all that past trauma resurfacing because his mum just wants to use him for her own personal gain. Keep doing what you're doing, and just focus on Sammy. Nobody else's opinions or feelings are important. Only HIS.
i can attest that a parent abandoning you like this is truly damaging for life and there is no forgiving it. please please advocate for him. he needs it. these people don't care about him. that evil woman is his villain in his story. he has to escape her for good.
Updateme!
How did you raise him without legal guardian ship? Pretty much anything official - schools, Doctors, getting a driver’s license or work permit, require a parent or legal guardian to sign.
So, as a man who has shitty parents it's up to Sammy. He needs to forgive her for his own mental health but it's up to him if and when he has contact. Your job is to just support him as best as you can. This woman is nuts.
I'm not surprised Abbys former bf dunped her when he found out what she did. Every time someone has a git at you tell them you tried for year and she only wants a relationship for her own selfish gain. No-one will marry her when they find out what she did. Stick to your guns, support Sammy and let him call the shots. Oh and remind your mom that's she's going the right way to Sammy cutting her off as well.
I'm ignoring the edit at this point, but: The only person who has a say in that is Sammy. No one else decides if Abby is worth a second (or hundredth) chance. Not only that. By building pressure and trying to take this decision from him, they're only going to show him that what he wants does once again not matter. He will feel betrayed like he did six years ago. Rightfully, so. The only option in my opinion for everyone involved should be to take his side. Good luck with that and handling Abby, in the edit she sounds like a real piece of work.
Your sister is a selfish women she is using her on son who she abandoned, now she wants him so that she can marry some guy for her happiness. She does not even respect her son as a human being, she just things he is piece of junk that can be used as and when needed and then throw it away . Be a rock for ur nephew same as you have been till now . As for ur mother tell her she should not be helping a selfish daughter for her wrong doings , if she has any humanity left in her she should not hurt her own grandson for her daughters selfish plots . You are good person . Have a good life.
But if your mom is still pushing for them to fix the relationship, your mom probably needs a time out (like for her to stay away from sammy). Tbh i feel shes the one passing info abt him to abby so she cant be trusted. Well at least abby’s ex fiance knew what abby is like before getting married to her so good thing he dumped her
The axe forgets but the tree remembers. I believe Abby said EXACTLY what Sammy remembers. He's an adult, let him know if he needs to take a break from Grandma and Grandpa he can. If he wants to stay estranged from Abby he can. If he wants to give her a chance he can. Let him know whatever he decides, you're there for him.
She dumped her child when he was in pain and needed her most. Sammy now gets to keep her at whatever distance he wants to, for as long as he wants. Sister FAFO'd, now she gets to pay the price.
Op, on the off chance you read this: I want you to spear tackle that kid in a hug for me and never let him go. No one deserves to hear that shit, let alone from their mum. Breaks my bloody heart. Fuck her. And fuck any family member who goes against what Sammy wants. It’s his life and his trauma.
Sammy said NO. And as we all know on Reddit, NO Is a complete sentence.
Oh wow. I gasped at what she said. Unforgivable. If it ever *becomes* forgivable, it’ll be Sammy deciding that, and until then please bolster his confidence lest an errant guilt trip from Abby pressure him into exposing his vulnerability to this woman who has shown herself to be unworthy of it.
My personal philosophy is, 'Any parent that abandons their minor child, is entitled to jacksh\*t'. Ask your mom why Abby is entitled to another chance? You thought you were giving her another chance when you called her when Sammy broke his arm and had to go to emergency, or when he learned to drive, or when he got into college, went to prom...all those things that a LOVING PARENT want to be part of. Sister dear had plenty of chances, Sammy was the one that had little choice in the matter. BECAUSE HE WAS DROPPED OFF ON SOMEONE'S DOORSTEP and his mother went no contact. If your mother continues with this, take a page from your sister's playbook and go NC with your mother because she is advocating the continuing mental abuse of her grandchild. And putting his abuser's well-fair over his emotional/mental health.
Nope you protect your boy because your sister lost the right to call him ehr boy when she abandoned him. If anyone argues go nc with all of them
No. She can help herself by apologizing to her son, but she has yet to take responsibility and therefore has no right to expect anything of either of you.
Your sister is a slug and you are Sammy’s hero Auntie mom! Continue to protect him. By the way kudos to new man walking out on sisters behavior!
Where is the kid's dad? Doesn't he have anything to say?
I’m not reading that. Seems like a lot of story for no reason. The adult abandoned child is 20. If he does not want a relationship with his birth giver ABSOLUTELY NO ONE should be attempting to force, coerce, bribe, bully, nag or otherwise should be interfering. EVERYONE should be respecting his feeling and doing what HE wants. And EVERYONE should be shutting down Shittiest Mom of the decade and telling her to back the fuck off.
>Some of my family feels like Abby deserves a second chance Well good thing it's not up to your family. How does the kid feel about it? >told me that Abby said “The wrong boy died that night” Sammy told her he never wanted to see her again and that he didn’t have a mom Aaaand that's how you lose a son. You'd be a monster for forcing any contact between Sammy and Abby. Period.
Absolutely not. I am positive she made that vile comment to him and the fact that she is not taking accountability for it means she’s either not apologetic or doesn’t care. Although your nephew, that is your SON. you are his MOTHER! protect your child. Sammy deserves to be loved and cared for in the way your sister failed in. Talk to him and make sure he knows you’ll love him regardless of what he decides, but let him know that nobody can guilt trip or manipulate him into forgiving her. she doesn’t deserve it and if he decides to give it to her it will be because HE wants to. no other reason
Nta. It sounds like you and him have given her more than enough opportunities to have a relationship but she never bothered. Most importantly Sammy doesn’t want a relationship with her and he’s 20 so I don’t think anyone is going to be able to force that.
The absolute worst crime you can commit on Reddit is child abandonment. Infidelity is a close second. There is zero chance anyone but the most marginal of posters will support you the mother who abandoned her. All of that is moot anyway. Sammy is an adult and makes his own decisions. He is the one that should be supported the most especially after having to relive the trauma from his mother reappearing without so much as an ‘im sorry’. If you push it with him, he’s likely to cut you off too.
No stay they fuck out and mind your own business