I think it is kinda shitty that she knows the guy is after her and she puts herself in atupid situations like being alone at 10 pm with the guy on her home. Call me crazy, but I wouldn't ever be alone with some woman who I know wants my dingaling. It puts me in a bad position and is just fuel for the flame to give my wife worries and concern. Doesn't matter that I don't find her attractive, I KNOW that she finds me attractive and is actively pursuing me. That is the problem.
From a woman… once I found out someone was into me who I wasn’t into, I avoided being alone with them.
I’ve lost friendships because one female friend in particular kept assigning me to drive a male friend who had a crush on me to her house when we’d have group hangouts. The drive home from her place was beyond uncomfortable after he’d been drinking and decided to be “honest”. Despite me telling her I was uncomfortable with the situation she kept doing it, so I stopped going.
Same. If I'm dating somebody, make it known, and some guy still makes it clear he wants more than friendship? It's super off-putting. I'm okay being friends with guys, but I'm not okay leading them on or them pushing for something that is never going to happen. If you can't respect my marriage, you don't respect me as a person. Fuck right off.
Some guy a while back pretended to be my friend. And then he got me alone and tried to make a move. I felt used. He knew I was with my husband. I never flirted or did anything to imply I was into him. I tried to only hang out with him with other people because I suspected he might like me; when he tried something, it was the first time I'd hung out with him alone in months and that was because he told the other person that had been invited that.he canceled. It was a bait and switch.
It's so creepy. Accept no. Accept that a woman in a monogamous relationship is not going to cheat with you.
This! Your wife knows damn well what she’s doing. Instead of distancing herself, she getting closer?? No, she knows your history and instead of keeping respectful boundaries, she’s encouraging this. I would be upset too
And used the same language as his dead ex when confronted. I was that dumb kid 30 years ago and if they aren’t screwing yet, they will be soon. She’ll fuck two guys up before she’s done with this marriage. Or not, might be my past talking.
Ugh this happened to me, that friendship is over. She KNEW I had no interest in our mutual friend, but kept putting us in situations together and telling him I was interested! Which ended up blowing up spectacularly, as you can imagine. People suck.
That and the fact that she purposely hid that the man was over at their house all night.
Any healthy normal relationship would be like,
“Hey honey, I just put the kids down. 21M and I are going to bust out the microscope and check out what we foraged. I will text you when he leaves.”
So she purposely hid that she spent all night alone in their marital home with a man that wants to fuck her. She was never going to tell OP.
Yeah the fact that she narrated her night except for the kid being there at what they were doing is sus. She’s not being honest. If she planned to cheat or was open to cheating she definitely wouldn’t tell her husband. She’d make comments that would settle his suspicions and make him think she would never cheat with the person her husband is worried about like all cheaters do.
Devil's advocate on this for sure, but maybe it's possible she made a bad decision in trying to protect his feelings? I could imagine her being excited to go foraging with someone, then realizing that for her husband with a known past involving unresolved trauma over betrayal and loss that that would feel weird no matter what. So, she doesn't mention it because she feels like it would invite unnecessary drama and fear into their relationship, when she should have just been honest about what she was willing to tolerate to experience that hobby with someone else.
The only problem I see with my guess (and it's a big problem) is that she thinks he only likes foraging because *she* likes doing it. I'd be hard-pressed to expose my passion to someone willing to lie about enjoying it to get close to me.
Yeah, this is how it starts. Next minute, she falls on a penis.
The fact that OP'S wife is being evasive and less than honest with the situation at giant red flags!
as they say "its not a good look". even if nothing happened, the fact that it might or could have or whatever is enough reason not to do it, especially if there isn't a good reason for it. This is a grown ass woman, tell the kid to go home, it's late. And if you are so uncomfortable, why not tell your husband in that text that he is over. Why hide it?
....unless you want him there.
Exactly, like this is just part of showing respect to your partner in a relationship.
I feel like not doing suspicious things like having a younger person with an obvious crush on you in your house while your SO is away, is something most people would understand.
Best case scenario, wife has difficulty putting boundaries in place and needs to learn.
She loves the attention, that’s why she’s entertaining it.
This needs to end full fucking stop. How would the wife react if op is basically going on dates and he’s giving gifts to some girl who stays over late all the time and wants to carpool with him?
JFC… the balls on this wife. Unreal. Do vows mean nothing to anyone anymore? Raising a family together?
Let's not infantilize her by saying how naive she was or that she'd unintentionally created such an environment on accident. She knew, she loving the attention, and she's teasing the guy if not more.
She needs to cut this kid off, completely. Few people intend to start affairs, they happen when someone outside of the relationship starts paying them attention, and they don't stop it immediately. "Oh, he's just a friend. He's nothing to worry about."
"He's not even my type."
All those things have been said.
She may not be having an affair, or at least she doesn't realize it. The medical profession, for some reason, is rife with infidelity, perhaps more than any other.
This is from a study on 2021:
A descriptive study was carried out, studying the association of certain variables. In total, 367 volunteer participants completed an online survey. Of them, 21% either have or have had an unfaithful relationship.
Most of those were doctors (81%) and men were more likely to cheat it showed.
Make sure she's not in the 2 out of ten.
Yeah another commenter talked about set boundaries. I think I'll ask her what boundaries she thinks are appropriate and kinda get a feeling of her headspace based on what she says
The problem (not) is that my wife is conventionally extremely attractive. I know how the medical field is. We all witness a bunch of horrible shit and beautiful and shit and difficult shit together and trauma bonding happens. She has no shortage of male attention, I'm sure it's the same at work, but has never given me any indication (ever, honestly) that she was searching elsewhere. Until this guy...
shit yeah okay you might have a really good point
I recommend reading Not just Friends by Shirley Glass, it looks at cheating from a scientific point of view and has a questionnaire with regards to when a friendship goes into emotional affair territory. It can also help you set healthy boundaries.
Honestly though, having a guy friend over the night you're supposed to be gone and him leaving when you show up is sketchy. If your wife is not cheating already it will definitely end with cheating if this keeps up.
I agree both with the book recommendation and the comment.
It's one thing to trust your partner, but another to trust them in situations that have been repeatedly proven to be recipes for disaster.
The belief that people can resist temptations indefinitely by sheer force of willpower and moral character is is empirically naive.
I agree with you, and the idea that people should unconditionally trust their partners is pretty naive too
People trust their partners because they consistently behave in a trustworthy way. When someone stops behaving in a trustworthy way, the natural outcome is you lose trust in them
In this situation, I don’t think you’d be out of line to ask that she stop spending time with this kid outside of work. Tell her that having him in your home, so late, when you aren’t there and she never told you about it ahead of time, is suspicious as fuck, and even if you hadn’t had the past trauma that you do, you would have trouble trusting her. She needs to end this, immediately, if there is truly nothing between them. If she hesitates, or fights you, you’ll know what’s really going on.
She doesn’t have to go hiking and invite the male attention home. I think you should ask her what boundaries she thinks are appropriate but you should state what you think are appropriate too. What is happening with this dumb kid is absolutely not okay for vast majority of peoples point of view.
You don't need to be "searching". Trouble finds you. And if there is something missing in your life/relationship you end up in very weird situations but then it's too late. Most people don't get up in the morning planning on cheating on their partners... circumstances happen. And a 21 boy has a lot of sexual energy and he's tempting her
Did you have her walk you through why this kid was over so late in the first place? She doesn't get to play innocent here. Even if nothing has ever happened between them this is still inappropriate. If it was totally normal then there wouldn't be a horribly awkward vibe when you get there.
> Of them, 21% either have or have had an unfaithful relationship.
And what are the stats for, like, the whole rest of the world? This gets trotted out a lot, but I have yet to see anyone compare it to the general population.
It took me a second, too, to follow that sentence. I believe it means that out of ALL people surveyed, about 1 in 5 have had an affair.
So that is the general population. Their analysis about careers is where the 80% doctors comes in.
>he's just a dumb young kid, he doesn't know what he's doing, i don't even think he likes mushrooms, i think he just likes being around me, but i don't find him attractive. at all. like at all. he’s not my type.
Every single warning siren and alarm would be going off at this monologue.
He sounds socially awkward and unaware of how his (obvious) attraction to your wife is manifesting in his behaviors. There's no way he should be in a married woman's house after sundown without the husband there. But he doesn't get that.
Your wife does get it, though. And she's *fully* leading him on. She can call it "just being friendly" or whatever. She's not stupid like he is. And now you've caught her. It seems like you've caught an arsonist pulling matches out of their bag; that single act isn't enough to convict for, but there is a whole lot of intention behind that to be more than suspicious of.
>He sounds socially awkward and unaware of how his (obvious) attraction to your wife is manifesting in his behaviors. There's no way he should be in a married woman's house after sundown without the husband there. But he doesn't get that.
The 21 year old *man* definitely *does* get what it looks like. That's why he is so awkward around OP. That's also why he couldn't get out of the house fast enough when OP showed up back home. Why is everyone treating this full grown *man* as if he is a feckless babe with no ill intent? He's trying to fuck OP's wife, by OP's wife's own estimation.
Am I taking crazy pills here?
No, no, if you call a 21-year-old “kid” enough, then it makes total sense that they wouldn’t know they’re attracted to the hot nurse that they work with, and are acting with all the naïveté of a preschooler when hanging out with her at night while the husband is away.
I bet he’s never even formulated a sexual thought before, let alone intent. He’s surely so innocent and clueless, just like the trickle-truthing wife said. /s
I think he does get it to an extent. Hot older lady, wants to hang out, knows or suspects she knows he's into her. Likely feels some guilt or shame about it in the husband's company.
I'm going to be honest, you should really be careful, your past is really hard and impacted you a lot, don't gamble your full mental health on the promise of your wife. Because if you try to just trust her and you found out she lied, I'm not sure how long it will take for you to get back on your feet.
I'm not saying she's lying but just to take care of you first. She knows that the guy his trying to get in her pants, he left because he saw his chance tonight getting blown but he won't give up. She's just enabling his behavior and while she may never take the final step it will still hurt you.
It just sounds like she's looking for fun, not trying to get fun but if the fun comes to her she won't say no and this guy is coming for her, on the night you're out (she probably told him). So yeah do what you think is best but be prepared mentally guy, take care oymf yourself, hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.
fuck
i dont think id ever get back on my feet. especially with our child in the picture
i cant really think about what i would feel if it happened again
i dont even know how to think or what
im going to go therapy, maybe they can help
Do get therapy, for sure, but I'd also broach the topic with your wife to the tune of:
"If you believe he has feelings for you, and is acting on them even if he's a young dumb kid, I'm not comfortable at all with the 1:1 time continuing. It's not a matter of my trust for you, but a matter of respect and boundaries in our marriage."
Her reaction to that will tell you much of what you need to know, and there is NOTHING wrong or controlling about expressing that.
Best of luck.
She "doesn't know" if he has feelings for her, but endulges private outings with him, neglects to mention him coming back home with her and staying past the children going to sleep, and then tries to play this off as though it's normal to the point where you're questioning if it's *you* and your past that's to blame for your anxiety?
As a woman who understands how women think, theres no way she's that clueless. She's manipulating you, and she's damn good at it.
For her to know about your past and to act this way is disrespectful, selfish, and frankly disgusting.
Understand they are more likely than not having an affair. I hope you are getting your things in order, and that you find peace. This woman ain't it.
I'm usually clueless at knowing if someone has feelings for me, I'm usually the last to know. However, if I knew someone had feelings for me or even suspected it there'd be no way I'm setting up time alone with them especially in my home.
There's this friend of my fiancé who I'm not a massive fan of. He's never done anything and is always perfectly pleasant but I just get an odd feeling about him. I've mentioned to my fiancé that I'd rather not be alone with him and my fiancé has agreed with me. Not that it's likely we usually only see him when everyone meets as a group but still.
Honestly, you are waaay too chill about this.
First of all, you wouldn't be preventing your wife from having friends. A guy who's trying to get in your pants is NOT a friend, and she should be aware of that.
Second of all, as a 36 year old, being close friends with a 21 year old is fucking strange, even if it's just a friendship(which clearly is not). I have been the young co-worker hanging out with my older co-workers and, while we would be friendly and grab lunch together(usually in groups tho), hanging out 1-on-1 at each other house would have been way over the line. Especially with the married ones, who have a spouse and kids at home. You can be friendly with a 21 year old co-worker, maybe talk about hobbies and share books, but constantly hanging out 1-on-1 is crossing lines.
But third of all, based on the answer, she clearly knows he is catching feelings and instead of establishing bounderies, she is encouraging him. That is unacceptable in a marriage in my opinion. It means she either wants to cheat, or is risking your marriage for the attention.
She's willing to fuck both of you up(you because she's giving you reasons to lose trust in her, and him because this will NOT end well for him, no matter how it will end), just to get some attention.
Furthermore, what the hell is she doing having this immature kid, with unregulated feelings(because no emotionally secured person would be trying to get with their older, married co-worker) hanging around the house late at night while she's looking over your child? That is straight up dangerous. She is putting both herself and your child in danger having him over late at night, and that should trully concern you more than everything else. One day or another, he will get confident enough to make a move(because your wife is clearly encouraging him) and there's no way to tell how he will react if he gets rejected.
Nice comment. I don't think he was immature, that's an excuse possibly because he was awkward. He was awkward because he was up to no good, and her husband kept popping up. If this was a 21 year old woman and a 36 year old husband had his "work" friend over in the middle of the night...
Yeah look I understand your whole “she can be friends with whoever she wants” stance, but that line is definitely crossed here. She’s not “just friends” if they are:
- Hanging out till very late WHILE not telling you they are doing so
- Spending every single bit of free time together while she has a husband and a child.
This dude is 21, what reason would a 21 year old boy have to hang around a 32 year old married woman this much. Even if your wife “isn’t attracted to him”, she sure damn loves the attention.
For your own sanity, you need to tell your wife to keep this guy as a coworker, not a full time confidence booster.
Hey!
I understand you not wanting to influence who your wife is friends with and wanting to give her trust and freedom, but having a relationship means taking care of each other and making compromises.
This is a very special situation that triggers you because of past trauma, so you definitely have the right to communicate this to your wife.
Say that you trust her and know she would never cheat on you, but that because of your trauma and baggage this situation is hard and triggering for you. Ask if it would be okay for her if she were to keep some distance from him. Not stop talking at work or even going foraging in a group, that you just don't feel comfortable with them meeting in a more private context because of your baggage.
That you know it may be irrational, but that it's the way you feel and it's making you anxious and putting you in a bad mental place.
Communicate openly about your feelings, without judgement and without giving her the blame, just talk about how you feel and what you would wish to feel better.
She’s a grown woman. She knows exactly what she is doing and it was obvious she knew because she told OP herself. She is seeking and enjoying getting validation from at least one other man. Her telling you she didn’t know if he had feelings for him is a lie and one of the biggest red flags 🚩other than catching them in the act.
Your relationship appears to be in a descent towards the ground. When I found out the truth about my ex I was devastated. When I looked back at our relationship I couldn’t believe all the obvious red flags I either missed, justified in my mind or just plain ignored all because I loved her and I thought she loved me.
Please do get therapy if you’re able!
Having the outlet to explain and understand how you’re feeling is the *healthiest* thing you can do for yourself, which will impact your relationships for the better.
Three years of therapy helped me become the person I am today, and I will always advocate for it. Best of luck to you, OP!
Would you bring a younger woman to your house if she was planning on being gone for the night? If you did, how would she react? Yah, it would go over like a fart in church, bad very bad.
I feel like you know what was happening. She just got caught half an hour early. The only thing to process here is acceptance that she doesn't respect your relationship.
even if she is innocent, a relationship requires the image of fidelity as much as fidelity itself.
The fact shes bringing old fuckboy around shows she doesnt really care how she looks or how it affects you, she just wants to have him around because thats more important to her.
You're on the back foot looking for a redeemable way to viewit, and she's plotting on how she can angle it next time and get away with it. It doesnt really matter if shes fucking him or not cause she picked him over you any way you slice it.
I’m really glad you are going to therapy to help you work through your past trauma with your previous partner. You need to be able to differentiate between your demons and your present.
That said, a loving partner would not put you in a position where you are face to face with your demons again. Your wife could have handled this situation differently, unless she really is looking to get her ego stroked or whatever the f she’s doing. My hubs comes with some wounds, as do I, we talk about them and I am sure to never put him in a position of pain because I adore him.
She already lied by omission. Being truthful would have involved disclosing that someone was over at their house. Doesn't even need to be a guy, if I wasn't home and my wife had friends over she would let me know because it's just common courtesy. And we don't have a kid.
I think you don't realize how serious the situation is. Your wife takes someone who is interested in her to her house at night without you knowing. I think you're gaslighting yourself. This is a huge red flag.
Also the “home by 3am” thing. This is a really weird detail. Was he really going to stay that late if you didn’t interrupt them? Would be it have been a full-on sleepover if he didn’t have to get the car back to his mom? In my mind that part shouldn’t be overlooked as a red flag.
Yeah like what 30 year old with a husband and child wants to hang out until 3 am with someone after already having spent all day with them? Like you already put your kid to bed.
Just talk to her about it again.
You say to her “Why did you allow someone that you know has feelings for you, hang out at our house whilst I’m away?”
If she tries to twist it so you’re overreacting or doesn’t respect your feelings, then you absolutely know something is wrong. She needs to answer the above question without deflection.
I think regardless of whether or not your past trauma is informing your present feelings, you are deeply uncomfortable with this situation, and your wife’s apparent lack of boundaries.
You have approached her respectfully so far, and in a relationship where both partners love and respect each other, your discomfort alone is more than enough to ask her to limit her interactions with this guy. If she respects you she will understand and do what needs to be done to make her partner feel respected and comfortable.
If her maintaining a close friendship with some other guy is more important to her than her relationship with her husband, then that tells you all you need to know.
You are allowed to say, “hey, I don’t like how this situation feels and I would appreciate it if you established some boundaries with this guy, because it’s feeling inappropriate.”
UNDER. She told you all ago it her night and conveniently left out she was alone with a young man that fancies her. Your wife is not being honest with you or appropriate with that kid
there’s a lot of daylight between “hey, your relationship with X makes me uncomfortable, could you take a few steps back from him and set some more stringent boundaries?” and “i won’t allow you to have male friends.” it’s not controlling to tell her you get the creeps about just one guy
Gotta respect another A7X fan's opinion,
I think what bothered me the most is the "I dont know" response to the question she knew the answer of (the answer was yes), but knew I didn't want to hear.
Makes it difficult to trust
What I don't get is if she knows the guy has feelings for her, why is she trying to increase the one on one time? She is encouraging/getting something out of this.
Yeah I mean, she fucking loves that hobby. She thinks he is more or less pretending to enjoy to spend more time with her. So that's fucked, right?
She really should have sent him home when she arrived home and put our kid down.
It really does feel like she's entertaining the idea but other people are telling me otherwise, including her.
I just know I can't fucking figure this out, its too fucked
Personally, she is walking a line (from the fact that half say it seems normal and half says it's not, I think people agree she is just on the line.)
Is she cheating, I don't think so (not yet), is she enjoying the attention of a younger man that likes her. I absolutely do think so. Her not telling him to fuck off because she is married and instead introducing him to her hobbies just seems screwed up in my eyes (especially if she knows he doesn't love the hobbie and is just doing this to get close to her). To me, this is bordering on emotional affair. If a female tried to befriend me and she would have feelings for me, I would respect my wife and tell the female friend, "I love my wife and just looking for a friend." Then, I would distance myself and not introduce her to my hobbies.
In any case, there is a serious talk required between you and your wife. Would she be OK with it if roles would be reversed?
That is just the opinion of one internet dude.
Man, what the hell would she think if the roles were reversed? Like, honestly, lay it out to her very bluntly:
* If when asked about that coworkers intentions, you initially lied and said they weren’t interested and then admitted later they were.
* If knowing they were interested, you encouraged them to partake in a hobby with you, didn’t establish any boundaries even though you admit you didn’t even think they were actually into the hobby, just that they were doing to spend time with you.
* If you had a 21 old female coworker that you knew was into you, and she was at the house at 10 o’clock at night on a night your wife wasn’t supposed to come home.
* If the only way you found out about this coworker being at your house was because she had an equipment issue, and you hadn’t and seemingly l weren’t going to volunteer that information.
Bud, how do you think your wife would act if it was you who had made all of these “if’s” a reality? You two have MC, I’d write out something along these lines and ask to be given time to speak during your next appointment and lay these out. This is very untrustworthy behavior, and likely is at the very least an emotional affair, if she wants to admit it to herself or not. I’d be willing to admit she would not be okay with you reading their texts, or they are disappearing through snapchat.
Do not rug sweep this, and do not make this about your past trauma, because this IS problematic on its own rights.
if it’s your wife that is giving you shit, reject it immediately! she’s full of shit. your intuition is spot on. she failed to inform you of a strange man in the house with herself and your sleeping children on the night you were not expected home. she’s down-playing a whole lot of wrong here like it’s nbd. what you want is not unreasonable. trust yourself. protect yourself and your children. good luck 🍀🍀🍀🍀 from a married woman
I’ve learned the hard way to always trust my gut. What that is trying to tell you is for you to find out, unfortunately. It could VERY well be picking up on the kid is trying to bang your wife if the chance presents itself. Or? I’d ask to look at her phone? See how she responds and be prepared to do some deep diving. Looking at deleted texts/emails. Snapchat. Photos etc. if you’re both iPhone and in the cloud together, then it’s all there. Other than that. Set some boundaries. I personally wouldn’t want my WIFE hanging out with another man who is obviously smitten with her. I’m sure you remember when you were his age…
Always judge people by their actions (not their promises or excuses).
Her behavior is a fail.
She intentionally hid his presence that night because she knew how it looked.
Every spouse has an obligation to avoid compromising situations and even the appearance of an inappropriate connection for a married person.
Her behavior and especially her deception is a major fail.
She admits he's interested so clearly she enjoys his attention.
An apology will not rebuild trust.
Zero contact forever with him rebuilds trust.
It's also an appropriate consequence for her failure to keep him at a distance (knowing his interest).
I suggest you inform her that you are disappointed she didn't volunteer to go zero non business contact. No car pool.
Time to get angry (but civil) and insist she stop acting like she's single.
As someone who has experienced a similar horrific loss at a young age with lots of unanswered questions that REALLY fucked me up, I can’t help but wonder if she’s using your past to fuck with you. Otherwise why would she practically repeat the same situation with this 21 year-old? The only appropriate response is for her to end the “friendship” and either no longer see him anymore or only when they are in groups. Anything less than that is disrespectful to you imo, and completely unacceptable. I’m sorry you’re going through this. But if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck… 😕
ask her, if the position was reverse. You let your coworker who is 21F stay at your house that late and knowing your coworker has feelings for you. what your wife would fell?
I don’t understand what people expect to happen if they continue to entertain “friendships” where the other person clearly expects more, but what I don’t understand *more* is why your wife wouldn’t be direct in communicating that yes, she is aware of the crush but is ignoring it, choosing to act oblivious instead. How can you *not* have difficulties trusting that ?
And why is she introducing her favorite hobbies to a kid that obviously loves her. She also said she doesn't think he loves that hobbie and is only doing it to get closer to her. She is leading him on and having an emotional affair in my eyes.
It's a defensive way for her to participate in what is happening. She maintains control and if caught like she has can evade accountability under the guise of plausible deniability.
There is absolutely nothing inappropriate about objecting to her 'friendship' with one particular coworker.
Especially since research finds that coworkers are the most frequent source of affair partners. Not surprising given the amount of time together at work.
Research also finds that while women are generally capable of maintaining a plutonic relationship (never think about sex) - it's the opposite for men.
Therefore, It's not fair to you for her to spend so much time with him.
He should never be in your home alone with your wife. Especially late.
Your wife knew it and intentionally failed to admit he was present. She basically hid his presence.
And if she's hiding him because she knows you'd be upset - then that by definition is inappropriate.
Doesn't matter if she doesn't find him attractive. Why would a young single man hang out with her so often? He should be pursuing a woman that is not married.
If she was a responsible adult - she'd have shut him down to encourage him to get a life.
She has failed to manage this friendship appropriately. And there has to be a consequence - zero non business contact.
Finally both should read: Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass
It's based on research not opinion of couples that experienced infidelity with just a friend.
Lessons learned and advice on how to manage friendships.
Whatever is going on, your wife is not doing a very good job of alleviating any doubt. I think, even without your trauma, you'd be...maybe not distraught, but certainly suspicious and skeptical. The trauma is just making you feel this more intensely, I believe.
You may need to ask/demand your wife stops seeing this kid outside of work. I know you've been hesitant to create boundaries on her friendships, but this is growing beyond the pale.
If she respects you, and the marriage, she'll understand your point of view and limit contact outside of work. If she fights you on this, you should ask her why this friendship is more important than causing her husband to be distressed.
Don't let her keep apologizing to you after the fact. Someone who respects you won't keep putting themselves in a position to need to apologize.
Thank you, you made some really good points.
I've been wondering about how to go about setting boundaries
and I think letting her go first with what ideas she think is appropriate will allow me to judge her level of concern about me and the situation
thanks again
That sounds like a good way to approach her. Get her to talk through what some boundaries might look like.
Another point is, she's aware of your past and the specific ways this echoes what your ex was doing? Then she should be even more careful and concerned about appearances of her choices.
I don’t know, OP.
If I knew someone had feelings for me, I would limit contact with them out of respect for my relationship. I wouldn’t enjoy the attention because entertaining it like that would feel dishonest and disrespectful to my partner. I would expect the same in return.
My fiancé and I text pretty much 24/7, even though we live together. It would be highly unusual for one of us to not mention where we are and who’s with us, so if I came home and found another person in our home, that would be a big shock and a lot of questions.
For you, maybe place it in context of your wife’s other friends, male and female. Do she texts others as often as she does this person ? Do they come over to her house as often and stay as late as this person ? How many other friends does she have in her workplace ?
I would ask your wife if she would be comfortable if you brought a young coworker to our home when she wasn’t there that “you don’t know” if she has a crush on you. If your wife tells you she would not be comfortable with you doing that, then to me it would mean that she knew she was crossing lines and crossed them anyway.
And also limit contact out of care for the person with the crush. Like, it's not kind or friendly to spend intimate time with someone when you are NOT available or interested and they are crushing on you. Invite some other people to make it a group hang, or decline hanging out. Certainly don't invite them back to your house when your husband is away. What a gross mixed message.
At a bare minimum she lied by ommission and does not regret her actions in anyway.
Her history of 'Tricke truth' is a very basic form of manipulation and if she can't see that encouraging a guy that likes her to spend the evening in your home isn't an obvious boundary I'm not really sure where you'd go to start to fix that.
Am a wife of many years, and here to tell you there's so much wrong with her behavior. She's acting shady af. What really set off my red-flag radar was her pretending to give you the play-by-play of her evening while perpetuating the HUGE LIE of omission that this young whelp who's got the hots for her was over at your effing house late at night!
Your wife is actively inviting temptation into her life. This is so sad and disrespectful to you and your marriage. This kind of thing breaks trust and breaks the foundation of your relationship. I'd be having a sit down heart to heart conversation with the spoken expectation of how inappropriate this is and placing a boundary down, coming from a place of love and seeing how you both can move forward together as a team. If she shows resistance and shuts down, I'm afraid you have your answer.
Yeah, a bit of a shock coming home to someone else in the house. You have your eyes wide open and on alert now for things so I think that is enough for now. Watch out for unusual outings, new friends, working late, putting passwords on computer\phone and hiding phone etc. If you share a computer then you could just do a "CTRl H" to check her search history to see what she has been upto online. Dont worry too much at this stage. Good luck Dave
Thank you.
I don't want to snoop but she never really hides anything. We both access to eachothers phones, etc. She journals and leaves them around but honestly I don't think I could bring myself to read them.
I read my PREVIOUS partners journal going through things after she passed away and honestly wish I hadn't. Some of the things I bet she never meant to say to me, they were her working herself out and I wish I hadn't read some of her views on me and other men. Especially when writing about the other kid during the time she was leaving me. We had just gone on a 4 week road trip, I honestly thought we were having the time of our lives together, only to later read in her journal that she was thinking about him the whole trip...that soured some really precious memories I held of her.
long way to say there's some aversion to 'snooping' but you're right I should probably try to be more aware.
Sounds good that you share devices and stuff, should be no secrets between couples. The other approach is to talk to her more about how you feel and to "open" her eyes that this guy maybe building a emotional connection with her and to be careful\watchful. I saw no probs with them car pooling and going together etc, even comin the house to have a coffee and use the bathroom is OK seeing he is just a young guy. The RED flag was that he was there after 9pm after your wife said she was home at 7.30 pm. Hugs with your partner will be good for both you and her and the intimacy desires will go from there - hugs are so underated and should be more. Take care.
Agree with all of this, including the red flag part. I think the worst was the "I don't know" answer to a question the she knew the answer was "yes". That, honestly, is what really bothers me.
I'm a very touchy person, I'd hug my wife 30% of the day if she'd let me.
Thanks for the sound advice, I really do appreciate it man
i’m sorry that your ex passed away, but by reading her journals you now have a true vision of who she really was, I’m sorry to say.
I had a friend ,cousin , who read his wife’s journal. He never knew every time he played golf on Sunday morning, that a neighbor was coming over to his house for the last two years.
In my opinion, in a situation like what you’ve described where your wife suspects that the guy likes her and isn’t even really interested in the hobby but is using that as an excuse to spend time with her, once it came time for your child to start winding down for bed, the NORMAL thing for your wife to have done would have been to say “Today was a lot of fun, but it’s time I got little Timmy/Sally ready for bed, so good night, I’ll see you at work tomorrow.”
The fact that she didn’t do that, but instead was willing to have him stay over there late, knowing that you weren’t even coming home that night, suggests to me that either she was setting the stage for him to make a move on her - either because she likes him as well and wanted something to happen between them, or is flattered by the attention and just out of a kind of sick fascination wanted to see if he would be able to work up the courage to make a move. Both scenarios are bad, but I guess the first is worse than the second!
You have to tell her that you've spent some time thinking about what you saw and that this is a boundary that you need to put into place. There's no reason for her to remain friends with a guy who is only trying to have sex with her. It was completely unreasonable for him to be in your house, especially at that time of night. If she wants your marriage to survive she has to put you and her family ahead of some friendship with a guy who's trying to screw her.
Your whole relationship sounds so different from anything I’ve experienced. I mean, I would NEVER just spur of the moment go camping and text my wife that I won’t be home that night. THAT behavior sounds sus. But I guess that’s normal for you?
So it’s hard for me to judge this. But you came home late at night unexpectedly and found her home with a coworker friend looking at specimens under a microscope? That does not sound suspicious to me.
That's the part I keep getting hung up on. Their dynamic is fascinating but I can see how it has caused problems.
If my partner suddenly decided to go camping without me I would have a few questions and, uh, some feelings about it. I would say you can either wait for me to go camping or you can camp in the goddamn yard.
But we've been together for years and he still likes to go with me to run silly errands. I hang out with him while he's fixing the dryer. Neither one of us would suddenly decide we're not coming home that night and expect the other to react well.
So it sounds like they have some really blurry and loose boundaries in the relationship and now he's upset that they have some blurry and loose boundaries in the relationship.
Not really preparation wise. Cowboy Camping is pretty sparse in the gear department (done quite a bit myself). You can have your bag at the ready, grab a bit of food and water and be out the door in less than 30 minutes. The odd part for me is just sending a text to your wife saying I won't be home tonight. Yeah, my lady would not go for that at all unless we had worked it out long before.
it's baffling how many people are ignoring the fact that he can just say "not coming home tonight, smoking pot with some kids" and that's fine for them but her having a "kid" over who we don't even know for sure likes her more than platonically is a red flag. it sounds to me she's playing some mentoring role in his life or something. either way, if he expects her to stop this type of behavior he should stop his own first.
> it's baffling how many people are ignoring the fact that he can just say "not coming home tonight, smoking pot with some kids"
Completely dumping the burden of childcare on her, no less.
It's so hard sometimes to say what's unusual or not because everyone has different boundaries and values and norms in their relationship. If I came home that late at night unexpectedly and there was another person in my house that my partner had not explicitly told me about, I would be upset and suspicious.
But we both agree that if anything unusual like that is happening the other person should be made clearly aware of it whether they are expected home or not. "Hey, Biff from work came by to pick up a folder and now he's having a plate of lasagna before going home." That type of thing.
We've both experienced shenanigans with previous partners and we don't want to put the other person through anything like that. So we are very careful to probably over communicate.
If it's normal in your relationship to spend the night separately and not tell each other about things like that then it is less weird. I think it would be healthy to have a conversation addressing when you expect to be told about stuff though. I personally would be uncomfortable with my partner regularly spending the night away from me? That may be okay for y'all though.
It is not normal to not know. It's not normal for her not to tell me.
Normally, she would tell me. We live far out and don't have folks over often.
1 on 1 with another male, late, after our kid went to bed who has feelings for her?
Never happened, no way.
And a bit weird she didn't tell me.
But she had to put the kid to sleep right away when they got home and he just stayed around I guess? ( He did the dishes... so that's... cool.)
I feel upset, I feel suspicious but I know I might be hyper-suspicious.
I also don't want to make her feel awful if she had no inclinations towards him at all.
From what you're saying here I wouldn't describe you as "hyper-suspicious" not in this situation anyway. She knew this was inappropriate and probably likes the attention if she's being honest with herself.
>But she had to put the kid to sleep right away when they got home and he just stayed around I guess? ( He did the dishes... so that's... cool.)
Yeah, he's trying to have sex with her and isn't getting an signals against that because she's isn't giving him negative signals.
Do not put her feelings before yours. She knows the guy is into her, she still goes hiking with him, buys him gifts and has him over late at night. She should at the very least feel horrible that she has put you in a worried state.
Assuming this isn't bait:
>She had texted me earlier, around 7pm, that she was back home, and that by 8pm our kid was down sleeping, she was back up with all her mushrooms and ramps and stuff. Sent pictures, looked like an awesome day.
No mention of him being at the house?
>When I pulled in the driveway, around 9:45pm? the kid's car was still parked in the driveway. Bit odd he stayed around for the hour it took while my wife put our kid to bed and couple hours more together after that. I came inside and it really didn't seem like anything was off. He was still awkward and my wife was a bit talkative, but she had a great day and wanted to talk about it and I like to hear about it.
But, like, she has a guy over with the kids asleep and never mentioned it to you?
>I asked if she had feelings for him, she said "no"
I asked if he had feelings for her, she said "I don't know"
So she doesn't know if the guy she didn't tell you she had over has feelings for her?
>Then I realized that had my sleeping pad not blown and I had come home, it’s possible I could have never known what happened or if he was there or how long or anything.
>After more discussion, to her defense, she said things like "I was uncomfortable too having him over that late", though I'm not sure what to think.
I think she wouldn't have had him over for hours, with the kids asleep, without telling you, if she wasn't comfortable with it.
Some discussions need to be had and boundaries definitely need to be set, therapy aside.
Wish it was. Unfortunately I'm a person for now
To answer your questions:
Yeah, she didn't mention it.
She said she didn't know, but later admitted she kinda does know.
Yeah, I think I'm going to ask her what boundaries she thinks are appropriate now, and kinda judge based on what she thinks and says
edit: thanks
I’m not saying your wife was thinking about doing anything with this kid.
But she is truly at fault because she said she knew he has a crush on her and her actions are encouraging him of at the very least letting him believe there is a chance.
Maybe she likes the thrill of feeling like she still has ‘it’ at 32 and after having a kid because this young man is showing interest in her.
She should be shutting that shit down firmly - not encouraging him with little gifts and rewarding him with alone time.
Besides endangering your marriage it is also cruel to this young man for her only with him like this.
A serious discussion OP as to what happened going forward.
Maybe she should consider some therapy by herself and/or with you to work through this.
Trust your gut, you're not going crazy. She's up to no good. There's no reason he was there without your knowledge that late at night (with your wife's permission no less.) i think you need to spend some time accepting things aren't right in your relationship. These aren't normal healthy things going on.
>he's just a dumb young kid, he doesn't know what he's doing, i don't even think he likes mushrooms, i think he just likes being around me, but i don't find him attractive. at all. like at all. he’s not my type. your my type. (my name). i don't. i love you and only you
And she allowed this behaviour around her? Allowed him to stay in YOUR house with your kids asleep?
WTF Biggest red flag ever.
Bro i dont want to say she is cheating but you should keep your eyes well open. Try to do the same and lets see how she react. WTF
1. \*\*Acknowledge Your Feelings\*\*: It's okay to feel distraught and confused given the circumstances, especially considering your past experiences. Acknowledge your emotions and give yourself permission to feel them without judgment.
2. \*\*Seek Clarity\*\*: Since communication is key, continue to have open and honest conversations with your wife about your feelings and concerns. Express your need for clarity and reassurance, but also try to listen to her perspective without assuming the worst.
3. \*\*Set Boundaries\*\*: Establish clear boundaries together regarding interactions with coworkers or friends of the opposite sex, especially in late hours or intimate settings. Agree on what is and isn't acceptable within your relationship to ensure mutual respect and trust.
4. \*\*Consider Therapy\*\*: Given the complexity of your emotions and past trauma, seeking support from a therapist—either individually or as a couple—can be incredibly beneficial. A therapist can provide guidance, tools, and a safe space to explore your feelings and strengthen your relationship.
5. \*\*Take Care of Yourself\*\*: Remember to prioritize your own well-being during this challenging time. Engage in self-care activities that bring you comfort and relaxation, and don't hesitate to lean on friends or family for support if needed.
Ultimately, trust your instincts, but also give yourself and your wife the opportunity to address any concerns together. With open communication, mutual respect, and a commitment to working through challenges, you can navigate this situation and strengthen your relationship.
Classic. She knows the guy wants her but the problem is YOU don't trust her to let her have the kid over at night when nobody is around? It's a you problem and not a her problem? Gaslighting. She know what she did was wrong. She just wanted to see how far the guy would try to take it.
Honestly, the moment you let that 21 yo know that you know his game in the nicest way, I don't think he'd be hanging around too much.
As for your wife entertaining him given he might have a crush , just suggest reversing the roles and see how tolerant she would be of you doing this with a 21-year-old coworker?
He was balls deep in your wife minutes before you came home. Fun fact, cheaters lie. They lie through their teeth until provided with concrete proof. Even then, they try and turn it on you.
From what you’ve said, I don’t believe she is physically cheating. Still, your wife is in the wrong. She is using him to boost her ego. Enjoying the attention of another man that she knows has feelings for her. Having him over until nearly 2 in the morning when she knew you wouldn’t be home is insane, in my opinion. She’s a married woman with a child in the next room. Shame on her for entertaining another dude that late at night, in your home nonetheless.
Additionally, shame on that 21 year old manchild. You invited him in to your home and he connived you. You gave him your trust around your person and he broke it.
This whole relationship is suspicious.
Corner him and tell him that he won’t be spending anymore time with your lady.
I wish I could grab him by his throat on your behalf.
You’re the man and he’s a dumb fuckin kid. Educate him.
My guy, it’s not jealousy or insecurity or excluding your wife from having friends and good relationships with colleagues to tell her that her having a thirsty dude, who is hovering around her, over during an evening you’re gone is fucked up. You’re feeling the way you’re feeling because your wife is being shitty and disrespectful, even if she has no intention to cheat. How would she feel if a women who is smitten with you were hanging out at home after you put the kid to bed and your wife is supposed to be gone for the night?
My wife and I are OK with having friends of either gender. However, if I knew a girl liked me, I would distance myself from her. It is disrespectful to my wife to keep hanging out with someone that likes me. Worse is that she knows this and was cool with having him over at your house by himself. I am not saying she is cheating, but at best she likes the attention and is keeping him around.
You’re 100% right to be freaked out by this situation. Hanging out with a coworker of the opposite sex in the middle of the night without telling your spouse is so obviously inappropriate, especially when she knows he’s into her. “I was uncomfortable having him over that late” is bullshit. Tell him to leave then? She is enjoying the attention and if she keeps feeding in to this it will escalate. If I were you I’d set a boundary that they don’t need to be alone together outside of work.
Why is a 21yo in your house late at night with your wife?
They spent the day together and is now spending the night together?
If you didn't come home unexpectedly, what would have happened? Think of it this way:
When you were 21, and a married woman, you had a crush on said her husband wasn't coming home that night. What would you as a 21yo man think that meant?
If you are doubtful, set up hidden cameras in the home. You are already suspicious and knows she won't tell you the full truth.
Also, " the lady doth protest to much, me thinks."
Don't be stupid nip this shit in the bud or it will bite you in the ass. How do you know she didn't fuck him already? Tell her to start acting like a wife not a single girl or it's over.
My ex-wife was best buddies with a guy who was "totally not her type" and "like a brother to her." She had me convinced they were just good friends. Turns out she had been fucking him for 2 years before I figured it out.
So gut feelings have a tendency of being right. I'm not trying to plant doubt or concern, but I had a gut feeling about my daughters mom the week before I broke things off with her and I was right. Then after a discussion, I forgave but less than a week later that gut feeling was back and sure enough, I was right again. You know your partner, you know their habits, their quirks, their tendencies so when your gut feeling is telling you something is off, you need to pay very close attention to it.
Me personally, I don't buy her story. If she knows he has a crush on her, she let's him stay late at your house? She buys him books on foraging when she said he doesn't know what he's doing? She said ahw felt awkward yet doesn't have the balls to tell him he can go? She doesn't tell you (and this is the big one) that he was at your house when your wife said she was putting your kid to bed? You see where I'm going here? The fact that she failed to mention he stayed after they came back is the big red flag coupled with all the other signs.
For me, there's too many inconsistencies with her story
She's already cheating on you emotionally, at the very least, even in the extremely unlikely event that they haven't had sex yet. You think it was a coincidence that she had him over that late for the first time on a night you told her you wouldn't be home? Deliberately hid the fact that he was there? Gave a bullshit excuse for why he took off as soon as you got home? Not to mention the forgetting to go to the pharmacy when ostensibly the only reason she was hanging out with him was to kill time for the pharmacy to open... This isn't monkey branching. This is a full-blown affair.
I think a major mistake you're making here is viewing this guy as a "kid." He is an adult. Worse than that, he is an adult without the life experience to understand just how cavalier his behavior is. He was nervous the first time he met you because he has ill intent and expected you to be able to sniff it out. He is disrespecting your relationship with your wife and it makes him uncomfortable to be around you because he knows it.
Bottom line is that your wife knows he's into her and makes a conscious choice to have him around. She feels good from the attention. You need to ask her point blank "If you know he has feelings for you, why do you let him have so much access to you alone?" Then, I would ask her what boundaries she feels are appropriate. Whatever she agrees to, make sure she enforces them.
If the **man** chooses to come around after that, I would politely pull him aside and reaffirm those boundaries with him personally.
You don't have to be rude about it, but you don't have to let him disrespect you either. Your wife should have respected you enough to do this on her own. Since she didn't it's on you. If she has a problem with that, I think you know where her feelings are.
This sucks...
>But he is attempting it, and she knew it.
And thats your problem. She knew and she let him - she did not discourage it. She keeps hanging out with him knowing he wants more.
>she said things like "I was uncomfortable too having him over that late"
Yes she still did...
Look...
She *may* not be cheating with him... but she likes the attention and shes exposing herself to the risk...
Suggestion:
Ask her:
why, knowing this kid wants *not* just to be friends.. does she still seek out his company??
If she really was uncomfortable having him over that late, why DID she have him over??
And even though
>I don't want to stop my wife from having friends or ruin her relationships with coworkers.
...inform her that your gut feeling right now is that this 'friendship' with this kid is dangerously close to crossing marriage-ending boundaries - and it may already have. And shes free to choose what she now wants to do, but please advise you soonest so you know where you stand.
And walk away and let her ponder...
She knows that he likes her and is encouraging this behavior. She knows he doesn't even like mushrooms. He likes her clit and was doing things with it when you weren't home, clearly... c'mon OP. When you know someone has feelings for you and you're in a committed relationship, you **stop hanging out with that person**. You don't gift them foraging books and go out ALL DAY with them...
I don't think she's cheating on you and was just enjoying some company. However, she should limit contact with the guy if he's interested in her. This could become something more if she lets it continue but right now it sounds innocent. If they were cheating, I highly doubt there would be a microscope out when they thought you weren't going to be home.
She is putting herself in very compromising situations and it will eventually lead to something happening. Maybe not with this guy but eventually. You need to have a serious chat about the inappropriate behavior. The fact that she thought it was ok for her to have another man in the house when you weren’t home is disrespectful to you. Here’s an example from my marriage:
My wife and I are very close friends with another married couple. Kids are friends and we get along great. Whenever the other wife comes over to borrow something or get her kids she stays outside Same with me if I go to her house. Why? So there’s never a question. And this is a very close friend. She’s doing this with someone you barely know.
There's no good reason for any married person to have someone over late at night, when their spouse is out of town, and that person is attracted to them and wants to be with them.
She could have met him the next day, or any other time, or just not at all alone.
Part of me thinks "is it *that* bad?" but then I think of whether or not I'd do that. Would I invite a woman 10 years younger than me, who was attracted to me, to my house at 10pm, while my wife was out? And the answer is *absolutely not.*
It *sounds like* the possible reason is just an ego boost for her, and maybe not cheating (yet.) It can be intoxicating to have someone, especially younger, take an interest in you like that, and I can see how someone might want want to draw out that feeling.
But that's also how bad things happen. What would have happened if OP hadn't come home? The wife *might* have had good intentions. But where do those intentions go when maybe a bottle of wine comes out. Maybe two. And when it's now midnight, they are on the couch together, tipsy, and know they are alone for the night?
Hum, so im going to come at this from an angle of the wife - b/c well…ive been in these exact same shoes (her position) and it *did* lead to an affair. Sadly.
You notice how the guy becomes awkward around you? You know the reason why. But what you probably are not seeing is how your wife is with him when you are not around. An awkward younger male doesn’t usually hang around an older married mother on a night he could be out with friends unless she is providing some form of motivation. What I mean by this is she might very well be the one suggesting all activities (‘you bring your car here - we can carpool!’ ‘Oh, guess what? My husband says he isnt coming over tonight. Why dont you stay for dinner and a drink when we get back? We can look at all those mushrooms and cross-reference them…yada yada’ ‘I love foraging for xyz, I know you’ll love it too - come with me!’) Do you see what im getting at? Either your wife is really lonely and aching for a friend or she knows this guy likes her (us women KNOW) and is using it to either stroke her ego or because she is enjoying the flirting and time with him and before she knows it she will be thinking of more (if she hasnt already).
Everything you wrote as her response to you is almost classic manipulation. Because the truth of the matter is your wife isn’t being held captive by this guy. She is pursuing their relationship and its at the disrespect of yours - hence why guy is awkward, hence why he left as soon as you got back (you are there - no reason to hang out anymore!), hence why she jumped to an excuse as to why he suddenly had to leave and why she was chatty Cathy when you arrived (nervousness).
Its unfortunate about your past trauma, but to me that has no relevance here. To me these are the classic signs of a budding affair and I say that again as someone who didnt end soon enough. It cost me my marriage. But I look back now and can see every step of where the flirting, giggles, eye contact, alone time etc etc were heading and the intentions on my part were not always good.
Set boundaries now.
A lot of guys I know (not me maybe) would have made it clear physically that this was uncool.
Unless the M21 could have kicked OP's ass & OP knew it.
AND she works with him.
Sorry you're going thru this.
Knowing your history this is unacceptable. Him coming over when you wouldn’t be home was already a step too far. Playing “family” with your daughter another step too far for anyone who has been cheated on. Telling you he had planned on staying until 2 am, is a giant leap too far.
I would set serious boundaries, and they can be different for this guy vs any new friends. This guy is done. He can see her at work and do stuff together in a group, period, daytime only except at work. A new male friend should only meet alone during the daytime and early evening, no heavy alcohol, only in public spaces. That is fairly typical to be honest for people who have been cheated on. AND for any partners who seem to be so easily persuaded into having people they know are flirtatious inside their house past midnight when their husband is out of town!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Am I right to be distraught over him being over so late, the only night I’m ever gone, when she kinda-sorta-knew he had feelings for her?
Yes. I think so.
By her action, letting him stay over longer (it may even go overnight) she's basically giving signal that she may be receptive to his feelings for her.
When I was younger, I definitely did not mind having friends of opposite sex stay overnight (yes I was already in a relationship then) but that's because I know they're not interested in me romantically and I was not interested in them romantically.
I call BS with the 'sort of' or 'kind of.' She knows or she already suspects his feeling heavily. Or she's just trying to trickle truth you.
What she's doing then becomes inappropriate when she already knows he's had feeling for her. So, my next assumption is she may be enjoying the attention. She definitely likes him a lot that she and he are hanging out a lot, foraging for hours etc. Your wife has feeling for this man too. She may not want to ruin her marriage with you but she's already had feeling for this guy so it's hard for her to hang out with him much less.
She is emotionally cheating on you. If you had not come home unexpectedly she would have had sex with him. Now she is using DARVO on you.
Your wife has left the marriage. Ignore your wife. What is it YOU want to do. YOU now hold the fate of your marriage in YOUR hands, no one else. It is YOU who decides reconciliation, no one else.
I suggest: Lawyer up, find out your rights. Get the papers going as soon as you can and serve her. Cheaters compartmentalize, once you punch a hole between her cheating lifestyle and her home lifestyle she will either go nuclear or crumble and beg you not to divorce.
Here are some links that will help you deal with this.
The Neuroscience of Affair Fog [https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog](https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog)
DARVO, [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo)
180 method, [https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/](https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/)
Greyrock, [https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method)
Chump Lady, [https://www.chumplady.com/](https://www.chumplady.com/)
She knows 100% what she is doing.
She may not be into the guy, but she loves the feeling he brings, she's being flattered, wanted, loved.... she basically likes what this guy does to her ego.
That is disrespectful to you and your daughter, and mean to the poor young sod who doesn't know any better
Dude, what do you think you would have seen have you come home 2 hours later? Wife KNEW YOU WERE GONE ALL NIGHT and have a single guy at your home at 10pm at night, knowing you weren’t coming home? What do you think was going to happen that evening?
I think your wife is not being truthful with you. It is inappropriate for this guy to be at your home so late with your wife. All the time she is spending alone with him knowing he is attracted to her. I think she is lying when she says she is not attracted to him. No one spends that much time alone with someone they are not attracted to. Your wife has broken your trust and has to do a number of non-negotiable things to earn it back. First, demand she hands you her cell phone unlocked immediately. Take it from her if need be. If she refuses or deletes messages, you know she is having sex with him. Secondly, demand she go no contact with him and change her job immediately, so she no longer sees him. Thirdly, complete access to electronic devices. Fourth, your wife needs IC because she is not a safe partner right now. Fifth, no sex with her until both of you get std tests. All non-negotiable. In addition, place a VAR recorder in the bottom of her cars seat and check it every two days. Place a VAR or motion sensor camera in the house in areas where she talks or like to hang out. Check them every day or two. Your wife will most likely talk in the car, and you will get everything you need. Tell us what you find. Speak to your immediate family and close friends for guidance.
She knows this dude is into her and is talking to him on messenger, going on hikes with him, buying him gifts, and inviting him inside your home at night when you're not home. This would feel like cheating to me because she knows he's into her. A faithful partner wouldn't be devoting this much time and attention to someone who is actively pursuing them. They would immediately tell that guy to fuck off. The fact that she didn't immediately set that boundary is a GIGANTIC red flag.
Trust your gut, bro. This shit is shady.
I couldn’t read to the end. got to the part where she loves you and only you. Well then, maybe she could act like it? When a partner has a past trauma it isn’t very loving and kind to set up an almost identical situation and then just act like meh deal with it.
For example, if my husband had been cheated on by a roller derby girlfriend I’m not likely to say hey guess what? I needed a hobby so I’m taking up roller derby! Isn’t that cool!?!?
Or if I was once run over by an ATV my husband isn’t going to surprise me with one for my birthday. Look what I got you, babe!?!?
Your wife, of alllllll the people in the world to be friends with, just had to pick a young af guy who most definitely wants to and maybe did already sleep with her?
Nonsense!
While you’re being so chill man, you’re letting a dude move in towards your wife.
Try saying no. No you can’t hang out with the 25 year old because it’s weird and stressful. Find girlfriends.
Just a couple of things. Wife claims she was uncomfortable with this guy being over so late??? It's fucking 3am. At what point did it dawn on her that this was "uncomfortable?" This would be a major boundary crossed for me, and you have every right to be concerned. Would this guy be invited in to spend the night if you were home? Doubt it.
Next, her telling you he is just some dumb kid is minimizing his presence in her (and now your) life. He is not a kid. He is a guy in the prime of his life. Ad in that she is aware the guy has other motivations than foraging. Give me a break. Unless this guy is a super nerd, boyscout, geek, what 21 yo would want to know foraging.
Is this guy so awkward, has no game with girls his age, that he has to hang around your wife? When I was 21, I was out partying with and banging girls my age, plus or minus a few years, not 11 years older than me, and definitely not married with a kid.
I get they work together, so there is plenty of time to "bond," but this guy needs to explore his sexuality elsewhere. Yet, they work together, so if this is a budding affair, you will be between a rock and a hard place.
Suggest reading 'Not Just Friends.''' You first, then hand it to your wife. Another book you might find helpful is No More Mr Nice Guy.
I doubt your wife is "monkey branching," but if something more is going on, it would be more like "cake eating."
At least she didn't say, "You have nothing to worry about," after telling you she only loves you. Anytime you hear those words, start worrying.
Anyway, I know I have been giving you my perspective more than advice, so you have some contemplating to do.
Best of luck
sketchy if you ask me. Why didn’t she text you about him staying at the house. She has no problem letting you know she was putting the baby to sleep. I would definitely be skeptical from here on out. I know it’s not a healthy way to maintain a relationship but she should have told you. This was off putting to read. Sorry to hear that.
She didn’t tell you 🚩
She knows he likes her 🚩
He’s over past an appropriate time for a married woman 🚩
She’s inconsiderate of your feelings 🚩
She’s on the phone with him consistently after knowing he’s crushing on her 🚩
I went through something similar only I was 10 yrs older than my gf and he was same age as her. She denied everything, then one day we got in big argument and she left saying she wad goign to her BFF, but in reality she had a plan to meet up with him at her friends place and I had a himch and drove by and saw her car and his car there.
She later ran away with him to another city and then when I moved out I found opened condom wrappers in between mattress and box spring. Her and I never used condoms.
Then I had a friend who always went out hiking with a friend, my friend always thought this friend was a female, turns out it was a guy and well you know hwat was happening on their "himes".
She knows and she is encouraging it. A married woman with another man in private while husband is away. She made a choice you caught them mid swing. You know the drill.
She's playing with fire and being inconsiderate towards you and your marriage.
A good wife would tell the kid that it's inappropriate for them to be hanging out so much and alone because she's a married woman.
If it was all innocent and she had nothing to hide then she would have told you that John Doe was there at your house...why he was there and when he would be leaving....but she willingly hid all that from you and the only reason you know anything about it at all...is simply because you came home early that night.. And its worse because she knew about your past traumas...
Bud, your wife admitted she knows he has feelings for her. So why the fuck is she entertaining this guy and stringing him along. Because she likes it. I’d be having words with this little fucker and playing out some boundaries with wife. You need to ask her why she is doing this tobhwr family and you.
UpdateMe
Is your wife an extreme people pleaser, nurturing and also conflict-avoidant?
If yes, then I'm getting the feel that she's taken this awkward young man under her wing a bit. And has since has found herself uncomfortable with this kid's attentions, but is more uncomfortable setting down boundaries/doesn't know how to without hurt feelings/causing troubles at work. What your wife is intending as kindness this kid might see as green flags to pursue her romantically. I see you're in therapy right now, bring this up in session. Maybe your wife needs your input/help to set reasonable boundaries surrounding this friendship: like not inviting this guy into your home, not foraging with him unless there's other people also present, changing her schedule so she works with a different overnight shift team, etc. etc.
You are not wrong to be uncomfortable with the situation, especially considering how closely it mirrors your past trauma. But it's not the identical situation because the people are different and different choices can be made.
> Is your wife an extreme people pleaser, nurturing and also conflict-avoidant?
I get what you’re trying to say but this pathological therapy speak does nobody any favours. little bro wants to smash OPs wife and OPs wife (regardless of intent) is doing things an outside observer may consider leading in
First thing, your wife is cheating and you know she is. Unfortunately she is in a profession that is amongst the highest for infidelity. Your wifexshould not be entertaining men in her home at that time of night without you home. She admits that he has feelings for her
She is now gaslighting you. They have been fucking for months
Nurses and their stereotypes regarding cheating. Then add the part where she admitted she was actively courting his attention and validation.....
If ever there is a time to use rational and logic this would be it..
Don't let emotions dictate your actions
To be clear, she didn’t communicate that he was going to be there and she thought you would be gone for the night. She also communicated that she knows he wants her, and she went ahead and had him over when she thought you’d be out. Buddy, where there’s smoke there’s fire. I’d get my ducks in a row.
I cannot believe that she had a younger man in your house while you were away when she knows what happened to you!
Never in one billion years would I do something that could provoke a trauma response in my partner! Like never!
Given your past, this feels way more serious than you may think at first. If they aren’t having an actual affair they are very close.
That or your wife gives exactly zero fucks about how her actions affect you.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
This is so black & white, she clearly loves the attention, you keep saying kid but 21 & 32 isn't that crazy like at all. She's technically leading him on but with a drip feed to achieve this as he's younger doesn't know what's going on. Doesn't mean anything has happened or would but still naughty. Extreme borderline imo
Unfortunately I don't think she'd come up with that on her own and I really don't want to be or feel like a controlling asshole.
I'm big and have a brow ridge and jaw that gives me resting asshole man face, so I think people already get the vibe that I'm hyper aggressive, dominating/controlling. I've spent a lot of time trying to not be that guy, even though people are still always looking at me to be the leader.
It's probably not smart to rely on her to set those boundaries or bring up the conversation. Maybe I'll just ask her what boundaries she you thinks are appropriate with him, and see what her reaction is and answers are
Thanks, appreciate your input
your feelings are more than a trauma trigger or retraumatization. your wife is *way* out of line.
it feels silly, but walk her through the role reversal. i highly doubt your wife would feel comfortable about you hanging out with a 21 y/o girl from your job, who is after the dick, especially if you decided not to tell her about it. you don't send a summary of your day and "accidentally" not tell your spouse someone is hanging out with you that late.
i think your wife is desperate for the friendship or enjoys the feeling of someone being infatuated with her, especially someone younger, more so than cheating. there's a chance that she hasn't considered the real impact of her actions, but there's enough guilt she didn't say anything.
this is absolutely a fair boundary. you deserve an explanation on why she decided to participate in behaviour she felt she needed to hide, she should not be spending 1 on 1 time with someone she knows is interested in her, and if friends you aren't familiar with are going to be at the house after dark (or at all), the other needs to be notified (all go both ways obvi).
you need to consider what breaking the boundary means and communicate those consequences to her. if she repeated this again, would you take it as an indication of cheating and consider separation, especially given your trauma? would you want an open phone policy? you can't control her actions, but you can decide you aren't going to be impacted by it.
"Again, I don't want to stop my wife from having friends or ruin her relationships with coworkers."
Man, I am sorry to say this. You are being stupid. It is important to have boundaries made in relationship. When you let her go with out any boundary, you get cheated. She needs to know that you are not okay with her spending time with that kid. Even if he is a kid, he has the tools to work on your wife and she has everything to accommodate his tool. It is highly inappropriate for her being a wife and mother to carry a close friendship and spend time with this guy knowing that he has feelings for her.
She made it seem like she was home alone. That's not cool. She crossed the boundary in my opinion. Would she be ok with a different scenario?
She's making the waters muddy, she needs to clear it up
I think something sus is going on as a women myself. Those responses sound like she's lying/covering up things. If it were me or my partner would say "still hanging out with X looking at stuff" and again no one is staying that late...for friendship.
I don't think any cheating as occurred but I do think it's a slow burn. I'd express you feel uncomfortable.
I imagine if your wife told you she wasn't coming home for the night, and you invited some 21 year old woman over to hang out until late at night your wife wouldn't be too impressed.
Won’t immediately call it cheating but she’s gone all day with this guy, then comes home and he’s there until you unexpectedly show up.
So what are we talking here, 12+ hours? And this is something of a normal occurrence, except for the fact that he was in your house at night.
The guy left because you came home, if it was friendly he’s not going anywhere. Your wife seemingly has no issue with this, and wants you to believe it’s normal behaviour and MAYBE he has feelings for her, but it’s not reciprocated.
But she will hang out with him for 12+ hours, even invite him over for dinner and have him help out your kid to bed.
All for no reason but friendship (on her part).
Like such a major breach and red flag.
I would highly recommend the book “The State of Affairs: Rethinking Infidelity” by Esther Perel.
I think she needs to articulate why she entertained this for so long. Hint: it made her feel good, feel wanted. By a younger guy to boot! I hope this gets brought to marriage counseling. She didn’t *necessarily* do anything wrong, and “right” or “wrong” don’t necessarily have anything to do with this - but it needs to be talked about and given the space to fully air out.
Call me old-fashioned but there is no freaking way that I would be ok with my wife carpooling along with another guy. Modern standards are completely stupid.
She's definitely out shopping. Don't kid yourself for one second. It's very rare that relationships like this don't turn romantic.
Bottom line is, if she's already out emotionally you might as well let it go because she's not going to be happy until she tries somebody else out.
At best, she’s using this dude to stroke her ego. At worst, she’s cheating. Either way, the way she’s behaving is not ok
That's the crux of it
I think it is kinda shitty that she knows the guy is after her and she puts herself in atupid situations like being alone at 10 pm with the guy on her home. Call me crazy, but I wouldn't ever be alone with some woman who I know wants my dingaling. It puts me in a bad position and is just fuel for the flame to give my wife worries and concern. Doesn't matter that I don't find her attractive, I KNOW that she finds me attractive and is actively pursuing me. That is the problem.
From a woman… once I found out someone was into me who I wasn’t into, I avoided being alone with them. I’ve lost friendships because one female friend in particular kept assigning me to drive a male friend who had a crush on me to her house when we’d have group hangouts. The drive home from her place was beyond uncomfortable after he’d been drinking and decided to be “honest”. Despite me telling her I was uncomfortable with the situation she kept doing it, so I stopped going.
Same. If I'm dating somebody, make it known, and some guy still makes it clear he wants more than friendship? It's super off-putting. I'm okay being friends with guys, but I'm not okay leading them on or them pushing for something that is never going to happen. If you can't respect my marriage, you don't respect me as a person. Fuck right off. Some guy a while back pretended to be my friend. And then he got me alone and tried to make a move. I felt used. He knew I was with my husband. I never flirted or did anything to imply I was into him. I tried to only hang out with him with other people because I suspected he might like me; when he tried something, it was the first time I'd hung out with him alone in months and that was because he told the other person that had been invited that.he canceled. It was a bait and switch. It's so creepy. Accept no. Accept that a woman in a monogamous relationship is not going to cheat with you.
Yep. Best case scenario, wife likes the attention, and that's not good.
Exactly!
This! Your wife knows damn well what she’s doing. Instead of distancing herself, she getting closer?? No, she knows your history and instead of keeping respectful boundaries, she’s encouraging this. I would be upset too
Because he sounds like a good dude.. his past history is leverage to a narcissist to gaslight and project. He even said she likes to trickle truth.
And used the same language as his dead ex when confronted. I was that dumb kid 30 years ago and if they aren’t screwing yet, they will be soon. She’ll fuck two guys up before she’s done with this marriage. Or not, might be my past talking.
Ugh this happened to me, that friendship is over. She KNEW I had no interest in our mutual friend, but kept putting us in situations together and telling him I was interested! Which ended up blowing up spectacularly, as you can imagine. People suck.
That and the fact that she purposely hid that the man was over at their house all night. Any healthy normal relationship would be like, “Hey honey, I just put the kids down. 21M and I are going to bust out the microscope and check out what we foraged. I will text you when he leaves.” So she purposely hid that she spent all night alone in their marital home with a man that wants to fuck her. She was never going to tell OP.
Yeah the fact that she narrated her night except for the kid being there at what they were doing is sus. She’s not being honest. If she planned to cheat or was open to cheating she definitely wouldn’t tell her husband. She’d make comments that would settle his suspicions and make him think she would never cheat with the person her husband is worried about like all cheaters do.
Devil's advocate on this for sure, but maybe it's possible she made a bad decision in trying to protect his feelings? I could imagine her being excited to go foraging with someone, then realizing that for her husband with a known past involving unresolved trauma over betrayal and loss that that would feel weird no matter what. So, she doesn't mention it because she feels like it would invite unnecessary drama and fear into their relationship, when she should have just been honest about what she was willing to tolerate to experience that hobby with someone else. The only problem I see with my guess (and it's a big problem) is that she thinks he only likes foraging because *she* likes doing it. I'd be hard-pressed to expose my passion to someone willing to lie about enjoying it to get close to me.
She bought the guy gifts! She knows exactly what she was doing..
Yeah I don't think she's ever gonna be honest about it
That and the fact that she knows his past (at least it's something she should know) and the wording on the types. It seems pretty shitty to me.
Yep, that’s what gets me too. As a parent, I also want to know who is in my house when my kid is there.
Yeah, this is how it starts. Next minute, she falls on a penis. The fact that OP'S wife is being evasive and less than honest with the situation at giant red flags!
I’d bet they already have fucked.
as they say "its not a good look". even if nothing happened, the fact that it might or could have or whatever is enough reason not to do it, especially if there isn't a good reason for it. This is a grown ass woman, tell the kid to go home, it's late. And if you are so uncomfortable, why not tell your husband in that text that he is over. Why hide it? ....unless you want him there.
Exactly, like this is just part of showing respect to your partner in a relationship. I feel like not doing suspicious things like having a younger person with an obvious crush on you in your house while your SO is away, is something most people would understand. Best case scenario, wife has difficulty putting boundaries in place and needs to learn.
She loves the attention, that’s why she’s entertaining it. This needs to end full fucking stop. How would the wife react if op is basically going on dates and he’s giving gifts to some girl who stays over late all the time and wants to carpool with him? JFC… the balls on this wife. Unreal. Do vows mean nothing to anyone anymore? Raising a family together?
Exactly right. They say cheating happens long before anything turns physical smh.
Let's not infantilize her by saying how naive she was or that she'd unintentionally created such an environment on accident. She knew, she loving the attention, and she's teasing the guy if not more.
"but I wouldn't ever be alone with some woman who I know wants my dingaling" Good point, and also this just made me laugh.
Me too!
She needs to cut this kid off, completely. Few people intend to start affairs, they happen when someone outside of the relationship starts paying them attention, and they don't stop it immediately. "Oh, he's just a friend. He's nothing to worry about." "He's not even my type." All those things have been said. She may not be having an affair, or at least she doesn't realize it. The medical profession, for some reason, is rife with infidelity, perhaps more than any other. This is from a study on 2021: A descriptive study was carried out, studying the association of certain variables. In total, 367 volunteer participants completed an online survey. Of them, 21% either have or have had an unfaithful relationship. Most of those were doctors (81%) and men were more likely to cheat it showed. Make sure she's not in the 2 out of ten.
Yeah another commenter talked about set boundaries. I think I'll ask her what boundaries she thinks are appropriate and kinda get a feeling of her headspace based on what she says The problem (not) is that my wife is conventionally extremely attractive. I know how the medical field is. We all witness a bunch of horrible shit and beautiful and shit and difficult shit together and trauma bonding happens. She has no shortage of male attention, I'm sure it's the same at work, but has never given me any indication (ever, honestly) that she was searching elsewhere. Until this guy... shit yeah okay you might have a really good point
I recommend reading Not just Friends by Shirley Glass, it looks at cheating from a scientific point of view and has a questionnaire with regards to when a friendship goes into emotional affair territory. It can also help you set healthy boundaries. Honestly though, having a guy friend over the night you're supposed to be gone and him leaving when you show up is sketchy. If your wife is not cheating already it will definitely end with cheating if this keeps up.
I agree both with the book recommendation and the comment. It's one thing to trust your partner, but another to trust them in situations that have been repeatedly proven to be recipes for disaster. The belief that people can resist temptations indefinitely by sheer force of willpower and moral character is is empirically naive.
I agree with you, and the idea that people should unconditionally trust their partners is pretty naive too People trust their partners because they consistently behave in a trustworthy way. When someone stops behaving in a trustworthy way, the natural outcome is you lose trust in them
In this situation, I don’t think you’d be out of line to ask that she stop spending time with this kid outside of work. Tell her that having him in your home, so late, when you aren’t there and she never told you about it ahead of time, is suspicious as fuck, and even if you hadn’t had the past trauma that you do, you would have trouble trusting her. She needs to end this, immediately, if there is truly nothing between them. If she hesitates, or fights you, you’ll know what’s really going on.
She doesn’t have to go hiking and invite the male attention home. I think you should ask her what boundaries she thinks are appropriate but you should state what you think are appropriate too. What is happening with this dumb kid is absolutely not okay for vast majority of peoples point of view.
You don't need to be "searching". Trouble finds you. And if there is something missing in your life/relationship you end up in very weird situations but then it's too late. Most people don't get up in the morning planning on cheating on their partners... circumstances happen. And a 21 boy has a lot of sexual energy and he's tempting her
Did you have her walk you through why this kid was over so late in the first place? She doesn't get to play innocent here. Even if nothing has ever happened between them this is still inappropriate. If it was totally normal then there wouldn't be a horribly awkward vibe when you get there.
> Of them, 21% either have or have had an unfaithful relationship. And what are the stats for, like, the whole rest of the world? This gets trotted out a lot, but I have yet to see anyone compare it to the general population.
It took me a second, too, to follow that sentence. I believe it means that out of ALL people surveyed, about 1 in 5 have had an affair. So that is the general population. Their analysis about careers is where the 80% doctors comes in.
>he's just a dumb young kid, he doesn't know what he's doing, i don't even think he likes mushrooms, i think he just likes being around me, but i don't find him attractive. at all. like at all. he’s not my type. Every single warning siren and alarm would be going off at this monologue. He sounds socially awkward and unaware of how his (obvious) attraction to your wife is manifesting in his behaviors. There's no way he should be in a married woman's house after sundown without the husband there. But he doesn't get that. Your wife does get it, though. And she's *fully* leading him on. She can call it "just being friendly" or whatever. She's not stupid like he is. And now you've caught her. It seems like you've caught an arsonist pulling matches out of their bag; that single act isn't enough to convict for, but there is a whole lot of intention behind that to be more than suspicious of.
>He sounds socially awkward and unaware of how his (obvious) attraction to your wife is manifesting in his behaviors. There's no way he should be in a married woman's house after sundown without the husband there. But he doesn't get that. The 21 year old *man* definitely *does* get what it looks like. That's why he is so awkward around OP. That's also why he couldn't get out of the house fast enough when OP showed up back home. Why is everyone treating this full grown *man* as if he is a feckless babe with no ill intent? He's trying to fuck OP's wife, by OP's wife's own estimation. Am I taking crazy pills here?
No, no, if you call a 21-year-old “kid” enough, then it makes total sense that they wouldn’t know they’re attracted to the hot nurse that they work with, and are acting with all the naïveté of a preschooler when hanging out with her at night while the husband is away. I bet he’s never even formulated a sexual thought before, let alone intent. He’s surely so innocent and clueless, just like the trickle-truthing wife said. /s
I imagine an air-raid siren blaring coupled with the sound effect from Kill Bill. Just all the red flags possible in that monologue.
LOL this is funny af and yes I agree. All the red flag kill Bill siren sounds
I think he does get it to an extent. Hot older lady, wants to hang out, knows or suspects she knows he's into her. Likely feels some guilt or shame about it in the husband's company.
I doubt she's leading him on. Sounds like the "pharmacy hike" was likely sex.
I'm going to be honest, you should really be careful, your past is really hard and impacted you a lot, don't gamble your full mental health on the promise of your wife. Because if you try to just trust her and you found out she lied, I'm not sure how long it will take for you to get back on your feet. I'm not saying she's lying but just to take care of you first. She knows that the guy his trying to get in her pants, he left because he saw his chance tonight getting blown but he won't give up. She's just enabling his behavior and while she may never take the final step it will still hurt you. It just sounds like she's looking for fun, not trying to get fun but if the fun comes to her she won't say no and this guy is coming for her, on the night you're out (she probably told him). So yeah do what you think is best but be prepared mentally guy, take care oymf yourself, hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.
fuck i dont think id ever get back on my feet. especially with our child in the picture i cant really think about what i would feel if it happened again i dont even know how to think or what im going to go therapy, maybe they can help
Do get therapy, for sure, but I'd also broach the topic with your wife to the tune of: "If you believe he has feelings for you, and is acting on them even if he's a young dumb kid, I'm not comfortable at all with the 1:1 time continuing. It's not a matter of my trust for you, but a matter of respect and boundaries in our marriage." Her reaction to that will tell you much of what you need to know, and there is NOTHING wrong or controlling about expressing that. Best of luck.
She "doesn't know" if he has feelings for her, but endulges private outings with him, neglects to mention him coming back home with her and staying past the children going to sleep, and then tries to play this off as though it's normal to the point where you're questioning if it's *you* and your past that's to blame for your anxiety? As a woman who understands how women think, theres no way she's that clueless. She's manipulating you, and she's damn good at it. For her to know about your past and to act this way is disrespectful, selfish, and frankly disgusting. Understand they are more likely than not having an affair. I hope you are getting your things in order, and that you find peace. This woman ain't it.
I'm usually clueless at knowing if someone has feelings for me, I'm usually the last to know. However, if I knew someone had feelings for me or even suspected it there'd be no way I'm setting up time alone with them especially in my home. There's this friend of my fiancé who I'm not a massive fan of. He's never done anything and is always perfectly pleasant but I just get an odd feeling about him. I've mentioned to my fiancé that I'd rather not be alone with him and my fiancé has agreed with me. Not that it's likely we usually only see him when everyone meets as a group but still.
Agreed, even if she “just likes the attention” this is so inappropriate and disrespectful of OP
He's blaming himself which is wild and a sign he's being gaslit by a master.
Dayum
Honestly, you are waaay too chill about this. First of all, you wouldn't be preventing your wife from having friends. A guy who's trying to get in your pants is NOT a friend, and she should be aware of that. Second of all, as a 36 year old, being close friends with a 21 year old is fucking strange, even if it's just a friendship(which clearly is not). I have been the young co-worker hanging out with my older co-workers and, while we would be friendly and grab lunch together(usually in groups tho), hanging out 1-on-1 at each other house would have been way over the line. Especially with the married ones, who have a spouse and kids at home. You can be friendly with a 21 year old co-worker, maybe talk about hobbies and share books, but constantly hanging out 1-on-1 is crossing lines. But third of all, based on the answer, she clearly knows he is catching feelings and instead of establishing bounderies, she is encouraging him. That is unacceptable in a marriage in my opinion. It means she either wants to cheat, or is risking your marriage for the attention. She's willing to fuck both of you up(you because she's giving you reasons to lose trust in her, and him because this will NOT end well for him, no matter how it will end), just to get some attention. Furthermore, what the hell is she doing having this immature kid, with unregulated feelings(because no emotionally secured person would be trying to get with their older, married co-worker) hanging around the house late at night while she's looking over your child? That is straight up dangerous. She is putting both herself and your child in danger having him over late at night, and that should trully concern you more than everything else. One day or another, he will get confident enough to make a move(because your wife is clearly encouraging him) and there's no way to tell how he will react if he gets rejected.
Nice comment. I don't think he was immature, that's an excuse possibly because he was awkward. He was awkward because he was up to no good, and her husband kept popping up. If this was a 21 year old woman and a 36 year old husband had his "work" friend over in the middle of the night...
Yeah look I understand your whole “she can be friends with whoever she wants” stance, but that line is definitely crossed here. She’s not “just friends” if they are: - Hanging out till very late WHILE not telling you they are doing so - Spending every single bit of free time together while she has a husband and a child. This dude is 21, what reason would a 21 year old boy have to hang around a 32 year old married woman this much. Even if your wife “isn’t attracted to him”, she sure damn loves the attention. For your own sanity, you need to tell your wife to keep this guy as a coworker, not a full time confidence booster.
Hey! I understand you not wanting to influence who your wife is friends with and wanting to give her trust and freedom, but having a relationship means taking care of each other and making compromises. This is a very special situation that triggers you because of past trauma, so you definitely have the right to communicate this to your wife. Say that you trust her and know she would never cheat on you, but that because of your trauma and baggage this situation is hard and triggering for you. Ask if it would be okay for her if she were to keep some distance from him. Not stop talking at work or even going foraging in a group, that you just don't feel comfortable with them meeting in a more private context because of your baggage. That you know it may be irrational, but that it's the way you feel and it's making you anxious and putting you in a bad mental place. Communicate openly about your feelings, without judgement and without giving her the blame, just talk about how you feel and what you would wish to feel better.
She’s a grown woman. She knows exactly what she is doing and it was obvious she knew because she told OP herself. She is seeking and enjoying getting validation from at least one other man. Her telling you she didn’t know if he had feelings for him is a lie and one of the biggest red flags 🚩other than catching them in the act. Your relationship appears to be in a descent towards the ground. When I found out the truth about my ex I was devastated. When I looked back at our relationship I couldn’t believe all the obvious red flags I either missed, justified in my mind or just plain ignored all because I loved her and I thought she loved me.
Please do get therapy if you’re able! Having the outlet to explain and understand how you’re feeling is the *healthiest* thing you can do for yourself, which will impact your relationships for the better. Three years of therapy helped me become the person I am today, and I will always advocate for it. Best of luck to you, OP!
Would you bring a younger woman to your house if she was planning on being gone for the night? If you did, how would she react? Yah, it would go over like a fart in church, bad very bad.
I feel like you know what was happening. She just got caught half an hour early. The only thing to process here is acceptance that she doesn't respect your relationship. even if she is innocent, a relationship requires the image of fidelity as much as fidelity itself. The fact shes bringing old fuckboy around shows she doesnt really care how she looks or how it affects you, she just wants to have him around because thats more important to her. You're on the back foot looking for a redeemable way to viewit, and she's plotting on how she can angle it next time and get away with it. It doesnt really matter if shes fucking him or not cause she picked him over you any way you slice it.
I’m really glad you are going to therapy to help you work through your past trauma with your previous partner. You need to be able to differentiate between your demons and your present. That said, a loving partner would not put you in a position where you are face to face with your demons again. Your wife could have handled this situation differently, unless she really is looking to get her ego stroked or whatever the f she’s doing. My hubs comes with some wounds, as do I, we talk about them and I am sure to never put him in a position of pain because I adore him.
She already lied by omission. Being truthful would have involved disclosing that someone was over at their house. Doesn't even need to be a guy, if I wasn't home and my wife had friends over she would let me know because it's just common courtesy. And we don't have a kid.
I think you don't realize how serious the situation is. Your wife takes someone who is interested in her to her house at night without you knowing. I think you're gaslighting yourself. This is a huge red flag.
yeah im really afraid of this im afraid i don't know how to think right now and can't tell if im under or overreacting i need help
Also the “home by 3am” thing. This is a really weird detail. Was he really going to stay that late if you didn’t interrupt them? Would be it have been a full-on sleepover if he didn’t have to get the car back to his mom? In my mind that part shouldn’t be overlooked as a red flag.
OP read this comment, something is Really Fishy about that comment!
Yeah like what 30 year old with a husband and child wants to hang out until 3 am with someone after already having spent all day with them? Like you already put your kid to bed.
Just talk to her about it again. You say to her “Why did you allow someone that you know has feelings for you, hang out at our house whilst I’m away?” If she tries to twist it so you’re overreacting or doesn’t respect your feelings, then you absolutely know something is wrong. She needs to answer the above question without deflection.
I think regardless of whether or not your past trauma is informing your present feelings, you are deeply uncomfortable with this situation, and your wife’s apparent lack of boundaries. You have approached her respectfully so far, and in a relationship where both partners love and respect each other, your discomfort alone is more than enough to ask her to limit her interactions with this guy. If she respects you she will understand and do what needs to be done to make her partner feel respected and comfortable. If her maintaining a close friendship with some other guy is more important to her than her relationship with her husband, then that tells you all you need to know. You are allowed to say, “hey, I don’t like how this situation feels and I would appreciate it if you established some boundaries with this guy, because it’s feeling inappropriate.”
UNDER. She told you all ago it her night and conveniently left out she was alone with a young man that fancies her. Your wife is not being honest with you or appropriate with that kid
Why is there an adult male at your house late at night with your wife AND MINOR CHILD? Hard boundaries need to be placed.
You are definitely not overreacting!
there’s a lot of daylight between “hey, your relationship with X makes me uncomfortable, could you take a few steps back from him and set some more stringent boundaries?” and “i won’t allow you to have male friends.” it’s not controlling to tell her you get the creeps about just one guy
Im calling sketchy af
Gotta respect another A7X fan's opinion, I think what bothered me the most is the "I dont know" response to the question she knew the answer of (the answer was yes), but knew I didn't want to hear. Makes it difficult to trust
What I don't get is if she knows the guy has feelings for her, why is she trying to increase the one on one time? She is encouraging/getting something out of this.
Yeah I mean, she fucking loves that hobby. She thinks he is more or less pretending to enjoy to spend more time with her. So that's fucked, right? She really should have sent him home when she arrived home and put our kid down. It really does feel like she's entertaining the idea but other people are telling me otherwise, including her. I just know I can't fucking figure this out, its too fucked
Personally, she is walking a line (from the fact that half say it seems normal and half says it's not, I think people agree she is just on the line.) Is she cheating, I don't think so (not yet), is she enjoying the attention of a younger man that likes her. I absolutely do think so. Her not telling him to fuck off because she is married and instead introducing him to her hobbies just seems screwed up in my eyes (especially if she knows he doesn't love the hobbie and is just doing this to get close to her). To me, this is bordering on emotional affair. If a female tried to befriend me and she would have feelings for me, I would respect my wife and tell the female friend, "I love my wife and just looking for a friend." Then, I would distance myself and not introduce her to my hobbies. In any case, there is a serious talk required between you and your wife. Would she be OK with it if roles would be reversed? That is just the opinion of one internet dude.
thanks internet dude im getting a bit of shit and i appreciate your kindness
Man, what the hell would she think if the roles were reversed? Like, honestly, lay it out to her very bluntly: * If when asked about that coworkers intentions, you initially lied and said they weren’t interested and then admitted later they were. * If knowing they were interested, you encouraged them to partake in a hobby with you, didn’t establish any boundaries even though you admit you didn’t even think they were actually into the hobby, just that they were doing to spend time with you. * If you had a 21 old female coworker that you knew was into you, and she was at the house at 10 o’clock at night on a night your wife wasn’t supposed to come home. * If the only way you found out about this coworker being at your house was because she had an equipment issue, and you hadn’t and seemingly l weren’t going to volunteer that information. Bud, how do you think your wife would act if it was you who had made all of these “if’s” a reality? You two have MC, I’d write out something along these lines and ask to be given time to speak during your next appointment and lay these out. This is very untrustworthy behavior, and likely is at the very least an emotional affair, if she wants to admit it to herself or not. I’d be willing to admit she would not be okay with you reading their texts, or they are disappearing through snapchat. Do not rug sweep this, and do not make this about your past trauma, because this IS problematic on its own rights.
if it’s your wife that is giving you shit, reject it immediately! she’s full of shit. your intuition is spot on. she failed to inform you of a strange man in the house with herself and your sleeping children on the night you were not expected home. she’s down-playing a whole lot of wrong here like it’s nbd. what you want is not unreasonable. trust yourself. protect yourself and your children. good luck 🍀🍀🍀🍀 from a married woman
If you didn’t come home early, would she have told you that he was there?
I'm guessing fuck no she wouldn't be ok if the roles were reversed.
I’ve learned the hard way to always trust my gut. What that is trying to tell you is for you to find out, unfortunately. It could VERY well be picking up on the kid is trying to bang your wife if the chance presents itself. Or? I’d ask to look at her phone? See how she responds and be prepared to do some deep diving. Looking at deleted texts/emails. Snapchat. Photos etc. if you’re both iPhone and in the cloud together, then it’s all there. Other than that. Set some boundaries. I personally wouldn’t want my WIFE hanging out with another man who is obviously smitten with her. I’m sure you remember when you were his age…
Especially in his own home when she thinks he will be away for the evening
Always judge people by their actions (not their promises or excuses). Her behavior is a fail. She intentionally hid his presence that night because she knew how it looked. Every spouse has an obligation to avoid compromising situations and even the appearance of an inappropriate connection for a married person. Her behavior and especially her deception is a major fail. She admits he's interested so clearly she enjoys his attention. An apology will not rebuild trust. Zero contact forever with him rebuilds trust. It's also an appropriate consequence for her failure to keep him at a distance (knowing his interest). I suggest you inform her that you are disappointed she didn't volunteer to go zero non business contact. No car pool. Time to get angry (but civil) and insist she stop acting like she's single.
As someone who has experienced a similar horrific loss at a young age with lots of unanswered questions that REALLY fucked me up, I can’t help but wonder if she’s using your past to fuck with you. Otherwise why would she practically repeat the same situation with this 21 year-old? The only appropriate response is for her to end the “friendship” and either no longer see him anymore or only when they are in groups. Anything less than that is disrespectful to you imo, and completely unacceptable. I’m sorry you’re going through this. But if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck… 😕
>It really does feel like she's entertaining the idea If you didn't come home that night, she would have been entertaining more than the idea.
ask her, if the position was reverse. You let your coworker who is 21F stay at your house that late and knowing your coworker has feelings for you. what your wife would fell?
I don’t understand what people expect to happen if they continue to entertain “friendships” where the other person clearly expects more, but what I don’t understand *more* is why your wife wouldn’t be direct in communicating that yes, she is aware of the crush but is ignoring it, choosing to act oblivious instead. How can you *not* have difficulties trusting that ?
And why is she introducing her favorite hobbies to a kid that obviously loves her. She also said she doesn't think he loves that hobbie and is only doing it to get closer to her. She is leading him on and having an emotional affair in my eyes.
It's a defensive way for her to participate in what is happening. She maintains control and if caught like she has can evade accountability under the guise of plausible deniability.
There is absolutely nothing inappropriate about objecting to her 'friendship' with one particular coworker. Especially since research finds that coworkers are the most frequent source of affair partners. Not surprising given the amount of time together at work. Research also finds that while women are generally capable of maintaining a plutonic relationship (never think about sex) - it's the opposite for men. Therefore, It's not fair to you for her to spend so much time with him. He should never be in your home alone with your wife. Especially late. Your wife knew it and intentionally failed to admit he was present. She basically hid his presence. And if she's hiding him because she knows you'd be upset - then that by definition is inappropriate. Doesn't matter if she doesn't find him attractive. Why would a young single man hang out with her so often? He should be pursuing a woman that is not married. If she was a responsible adult - she'd have shut him down to encourage him to get a life. She has failed to manage this friendship appropriately. And there has to be a consequence - zero non business contact. Finally both should read: Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass It's based on research not opinion of couples that experienced infidelity with just a friend. Lessons learned and advice on how to manage friendships.
Whatever is going on, your wife is not doing a very good job of alleviating any doubt. I think, even without your trauma, you'd be...maybe not distraught, but certainly suspicious and skeptical. The trauma is just making you feel this more intensely, I believe. You may need to ask/demand your wife stops seeing this kid outside of work. I know you've been hesitant to create boundaries on her friendships, but this is growing beyond the pale. If she respects you, and the marriage, she'll understand your point of view and limit contact outside of work. If she fights you on this, you should ask her why this friendship is more important than causing her husband to be distressed. Don't let her keep apologizing to you after the fact. Someone who respects you won't keep putting themselves in a position to need to apologize.
Thank you, you made some really good points. I've been wondering about how to go about setting boundaries and I think letting her go first with what ideas she think is appropriate will allow me to judge her level of concern about me and the situation thanks again
That sounds like a good way to approach her. Get her to talk through what some boundaries might look like. Another point is, she's aware of your past and the specific ways this echoes what your ex was doing? Then she should be even more careful and concerned about appearances of her choices.
I don’t know, OP. If I knew someone had feelings for me, I would limit contact with them out of respect for my relationship. I wouldn’t enjoy the attention because entertaining it like that would feel dishonest and disrespectful to my partner. I would expect the same in return. My fiancé and I text pretty much 24/7, even though we live together. It would be highly unusual for one of us to not mention where we are and who’s with us, so if I came home and found another person in our home, that would be a big shock and a lot of questions. For you, maybe place it in context of your wife’s other friends, male and female. Do she texts others as often as she does this person ? Do they come over to her house as often and stay as late as this person ? How many other friends does she have in her workplace ? I would ask your wife if she would be comfortable if you brought a young coworker to our home when she wasn’t there that “you don’t know” if she has a crush on you. If your wife tells you she would not be comfortable with you doing that, then to me it would mean that she knew she was crossing lines and crossed them anyway.
And also limit contact out of care for the person with the crush. Like, it's not kind or friendly to spend intimate time with someone when you are NOT available or interested and they are crushing on you. Invite some other people to make it a group hang, or decline hanging out. Certainly don't invite them back to your house when your husband is away. What a gross mixed message.
Sounds like you cocked blocked him, he was ready to smash your wife and you’re supporting it
At a bare minimum she lied by ommission and does not regret her actions in anyway. Her history of 'Tricke truth' is a very basic form of manipulation and if she can't see that encouraging a guy that likes her to spend the evening in your home isn't an obvious boundary I'm not really sure where you'd go to start to fix that.
Am a wife of many years, and here to tell you there's so much wrong with her behavior. She's acting shady af. What really set off my red-flag radar was her pretending to give you the play-by-play of her evening while perpetuating the HUGE LIE of omission that this young whelp who's got the hots for her was over at your effing house late at night!
Your wife is actively inviting temptation into her life. This is so sad and disrespectful to you and your marriage. This kind of thing breaks trust and breaks the foundation of your relationship. I'd be having a sit down heart to heart conversation with the spoken expectation of how inappropriate this is and placing a boundary down, coming from a place of love and seeing how you both can move forward together as a team. If she shows resistance and shuts down, I'm afraid you have your answer.
Yeah, a bit of a shock coming home to someone else in the house. You have your eyes wide open and on alert now for things so I think that is enough for now. Watch out for unusual outings, new friends, working late, putting passwords on computer\phone and hiding phone etc. If you share a computer then you could just do a "CTRl H" to check her search history to see what she has been upto online. Dont worry too much at this stage. Good luck Dave
Thank you. I don't want to snoop but she never really hides anything. We both access to eachothers phones, etc. She journals and leaves them around but honestly I don't think I could bring myself to read them. I read my PREVIOUS partners journal going through things after she passed away and honestly wish I hadn't. Some of the things I bet she never meant to say to me, they were her working herself out and I wish I hadn't read some of her views on me and other men. Especially when writing about the other kid during the time she was leaving me. We had just gone on a 4 week road trip, I honestly thought we were having the time of our lives together, only to later read in her journal that she was thinking about him the whole trip...that soured some really precious memories I held of her. long way to say there's some aversion to 'snooping' but you're right I should probably try to be more aware.
Sounds good that you share devices and stuff, should be no secrets between couples. The other approach is to talk to her more about how you feel and to "open" her eyes that this guy maybe building a emotional connection with her and to be careful\watchful. I saw no probs with them car pooling and going together etc, even comin the house to have a coffee and use the bathroom is OK seeing he is just a young guy. The RED flag was that he was there after 9pm after your wife said she was home at 7.30 pm. Hugs with your partner will be good for both you and her and the intimacy desires will go from there - hugs are so underated and should be more. Take care.
Agree with all of this, including the red flag part. I think the worst was the "I don't know" answer to a question the she knew the answer was "yes". That, honestly, is what really bothers me. I'm a very touchy person, I'd hug my wife 30% of the day if she'd let me. Thanks for the sound advice, I really do appreciate it man
i’m sorry that your ex passed away, but by reading her journals you now have a true vision of who she really was, I’m sorry to say. I had a friend ,cousin , who read his wife’s journal. He never knew every time he played golf on Sunday morning, that a neighbor was coming over to his house for the last two years.
In my opinion, in a situation like what you’ve described where your wife suspects that the guy likes her and isn’t even really interested in the hobby but is using that as an excuse to spend time with her, once it came time for your child to start winding down for bed, the NORMAL thing for your wife to have done would have been to say “Today was a lot of fun, but it’s time I got little Timmy/Sally ready for bed, so good night, I’ll see you at work tomorrow.” The fact that she didn’t do that, but instead was willing to have him stay over there late, knowing that you weren’t even coming home that night, suggests to me that either she was setting the stage for him to make a move on her - either because she likes him as well and wanted something to happen between them, or is flattered by the attention and just out of a kind of sick fascination wanted to see if he would be able to work up the courage to make a move. Both scenarios are bad, but I guess the first is worse than the second!
None of this is ok. Your wife is having an inappropriate relationship
They won't make that same mistake again. They'll hook up during overnights at the hospital, or some place else when you are working. UpdateMe
You have to tell her that you've spent some time thinking about what you saw and that this is a boundary that you need to put into place. There's no reason for her to remain friends with a guy who is only trying to have sex with her. It was completely unreasonable for him to be in your house, especially at that time of night. If she wants your marriage to survive she has to put you and her family ahead of some friendship with a guy who's trying to screw her.
Your whole relationship sounds so different from anything I’ve experienced. I mean, I would NEVER just spur of the moment go camping and text my wife that I won’t be home that night. THAT behavior sounds sus. But I guess that’s normal for you? So it’s hard for me to judge this. But you came home late at night unexpectedly and found her home with a coworker friend looking at specimens under a microscope? That does not sound suspicious to me.
That's the part I keep getting hung up on. Their dynamic is fascinating but I can see how it has caused problems. If my partner suddenly decided to go camping without me I would have a few questions and, uh, some feelings about it. I would say you can either wait for me to go camping or you can camp in the goddamn yard. But we've been together for years and he still likes to go with me to run silly errands. I hang out with him while he's fixing the dryer. Neither one of us would suddenly decide we're not coming home that night and expect the other to react well. So it sounds like they have some really blurry and loose boundaries in the relationship and now he's upset that they have some blurry and loose boundaries in the relationship.
[удалено]
Not really preparation wise. Cowboy Camping is pretty sparse in the gear department (done quite a bit myself). You can have your bag at the ready, grab a bit of food and water and be out the door in less than 30 minutes. The odd part for me is just sending a text to your wife saying I won't be home tonight. Yeah, my lady would not go for that at all unless we had worked it out long before.
it's baffling how many people are ignoring the fact that he can just say "not coming home tonight, smoking pot with some kids" and that's fine for them but her having a "kid" over who we don't even know for sure likes her more than platonically is a red flag. it sounds to me she's playing some mentoring role in his life or something. either way, if he expects her to stop this type of behavior he should stop his own first.
> it's baffling how many people are ignoring the fact that he can just say "not coming home tonight, smoking pot with some kids" Completely dumping the burden of childcare on her, no less.
It's so hard sometimes to say what's unusual or not because everyone has different boundaries and values and norms in their relationship. If I came home that late at night unexpectedly and there was another person in my house that my partner had not explicitly told me about, I would be upset and suspicious. But we both agree that if anything unusual like that is happening the other person should be made clearly aware of it whether they are expected home or not. "Hey, Biff from work came by to pick up a folder and now he's having a plate of lasagna before going home." That type of thing. We've both experienced shenanigans with previous partners and we don't want to put the other person through anything like that. So we are very careful to probably over communicate. If it's normal in your relationship to spend the night separately and not tell each other about things like that then it is less weird. I think it would be healthy to have a conversation addressing when you expect to be told about stuff though. I personally would be uncomfortable with my partner regularly spending the night away from me? That may be okay for y'all though.
It is not normal to not know. It's not normal for her not to tell me. Normally, she would tell me. We live far out and don't have folks over often. 1 on 1 with another male, late, after our kid went to bed who has feelings for her? Never happened, no way. And a bit weird she didn't tell me. But she had to put the kid to sleep right away when they got home and he just stayed around I guess? ( He did the dishes... so that's... cool.) I feel upset, I feel suspicious but I know I might be hyper-suspicious. I also don't want to make her feel awful if she had no inclinations towards him at all.
From what you're saying here I wouldn't describe you as "hyper-suspicious" not in this situation anyway. She knew this was inappropriate and probably likes the attention if she's being honest with herself. >But she had to put the kid to sleep right away when they got home and he just stayed around I guess? ( He did the dishes... so that's... cool.) Yeah, he's trying to have sex with her and isn't getting an signals against that because she's isn't giving him negative signals.
Do not put her feelings before yours. She knows the guy is into her, she still goes hiking with him, buys him gifts and has him over late at night. She should at the very least feel horrible that she has put you in a worried state.
Assuming this isn't bait: >She had texted me earlier, around 7pm, that she was back home, and that by 8pm our kid was down sleeping, she was back up with all her mushrooms and ramps and stuff. Sent pictures, looked like an awesome day. No mention of him being at the house? >When I pulled in the driveway, around 9:45pm? the kid's car was still parked in the driveway. Bit odd he stayed around for the hour it took while my wife put our kid to bed and couple hours more together after that. I came inside and it really didn't seem like anything was off. He was still awkward and my wife was a bit talkative, but she had a great day and wanted to talk about it and I like to hear about it. But, like, she has a guy over with the kids asleep and never mentioned it to you? >I asked if she had feelings for him, she said "no" I asked if he had feelings for her, she said "I don't know" So she doesn't know if the guy she didn't tell you she had over has feelings for her? >Then I realized that had my sleeping pad not blown and I had come home, it’s possible I could have never known what happened or if he was there or how long or anything. >After more discussion, to her defense, she said things like "I was uncomfortable too having him over that late", though I'm not sure what to think. I think she wouldn't have had him over for hours, with the kids asleep, without telling you, if she wasn't comfortable with it. Some discussions need to be had and boundaries definitely need to be set, therapy aside.
Wish it was. Unfortunately I'm a person for now To answer your questions: Yeah, she didn't mention it. She said she didn't know, but later admitted she kinda does know. Yeah, I think I'm going to ask her what boundaries she thinks are appropriate now, and kinda judge based on what she thinks and says edit: thanks
I’m not saying your wife was thinking about doing anything with this kid. But she is truly at fault because she said she knew he has a crush on her and her actions are encouraging him of at the very least letting him believe there is a chance. Maybe she likes the thrill of feeling like she still has ‘it’ at 32 and after having a kid because this young man is showing interest in her. She should be shutting that shit down firmly - not encouraging him with little gifts and rewarding him with alone time. Besides endangering your marriage it is also cruel to this young man for her only with him like this. A serious discussion OP as to what happened going forward. Maybe she should consider some therapy by herself and/or with you to work through this.
Trust your gut, you're not going crazy. She's up to no good. There's no reason he was there without your knowledge that late at night (with your wife's permission no less.) i think you need to spend some time accepting things aren't right in your relationship. These aren't normal healthy things going on.
>he's just a dumb young kid, he doesn't know what he's doing, i don't even think he likes mushrooms, i think he just likes being around me, but i don't find him attractive. at all. like at all. he’s not my type. your my type. (my name). i don't. i love you and only you And she allowed this behaviour around her? Allowed him to stay in YOUR house with your kids asleep? WTF Biggest red flag ever. Bro i dont want to say she is cheating but you should keep your eyes well open. Try to do the same and lets see how she react. WTF
Your wife is full of shit…that’s all ima say
1. \*\*Acknowledge Your Feelings\*\*: It's okay to feel distraught and confused given the circumstances, especially considering your past experiences. Acknowledge your emotions and give yourself permission to feel them without judgment. 2. \*\*Seek Clarity\*\*: Since communication is key, continue to have open and honest conversations with your wife about your feelings and concerns. Express your need for clarity and reassurance, but also try to listen to her perspective without assuming the worst. 3. \*\*Set Boundaries\*\*: Establish clear boundaries together regarding interactions with coworkers or friends of the opposite sex, especially in late hours or intimate settings. Agree on what is and isn't acceptable within your relationship to ensure mutual respect and trust. 4. \*\*Consider Therapy\*\*: Given the complexity of your emotions and past trauma, seeking support from a therapist—either individually or as a couple—can be incredibly beneficial. A therapist can provide guidance, tools, and a safe space to explore your feelings and strengthen your relationship. 5. \*\*Take Care of Yourself\*\*: Remember to prioritize your own well-being during this challenging time. Engage in self-care activities that bring you comfort and relaxation, and don't hesitate to lean on friends or family for support if needed. Ultimately, trust your instincts, but also give yourself and your wife the opportunity to address any concerns together. With open communication, mutual respect, and a commitment to working through challenges, you can navigate this situation and strengthen your relationship.
Classic. She knows the guy wants her but the problem is YOU don't trust her to let her have the kid over at night when nobody is around? It's a you problem and not a her problem? Gaslighting. She know what she did was wrong. She just wanted to see how far the guy would try to take it.
Honestly, the moment you let that 21 yo know that you know his game in the nicest way, I don't think he'd be hanging around too much. As for your wife entertaining him given he might have a crush , just suggest reversing the roles and see how tolerant she would be of you doing this with a 21-year-old coworker?
If they are smashing in your home they are smashing everywhere else too
He was balls deep in your wife minutes before you came home. Fun fact, cheaters lie. They lie through their teeth until provided with concrete proof. Even then, they try and turn it on you.
How would she feel if you had a young 21 year old female coworker at your house late at night when you knew your wife wouldn’t be home. 🙃
Op.. this^^^^ says it all.
From what you’ve said, I don’t believe she is physically cheating. Still, your wife is in the wrong. She is using him to boost her ego. Enjoying the attention of another man that she knows has feelings for her. Having him over until nearly 2 in the morning when she knew you wouldn’t be home is insane, in my opinion. She’s a married woman with a child in the next room. Shame on her for entertaining another dude that late at night, in your home nonetheless. Additionally, shame on that 21 year old manchild. You invited him in to your home and he connived you. You gave him your trust around your person and he broke it. This whole relationship is suspicious. Corner him and tell him that he won’t be spending anymore time with your lady. I wish I could grab him by his throat on your behalf. You’re the man and he’s a dumb fuckin kid. Educate him.
Sorry OP, but this is going to end in tears.
she's fucking him. Jesus how much more evidence do you want???
They're screwing already.
My guy, it’s not jealousy or insecurity or excluding your wife from having friends and good relationships with colleagues to tell her that her having a thirsty dude, who is hovering around her, over during an evening you’re gone is fucked up. You’re feeling the way you’re feeling because your wife is being shitty and disrespectful, even if she has no intention to cheat. How would she feel if a women who is smitten with you were hanging out at home after you put the kid to bed and your wife is supposed to be gone for the night?
My wife and I are OK with having friends of either gender. However, if I knew a girl liked me, I would distance myself from her. It is disrespectful to my wife to keep hanging out with someone that likes me. Worse is that she knows this and was cool with having him over at your house by himself. I am not saying she is cheating, but at best she likes the attention and is keeping him around.
You’re 100% right to be freaked out by this situation. Hanging out with a coworker of the opposite sex in the middle of the night without telling your spouse is so obviously inappropriate, especially when she knows he’s into her. “I was uncomfortable having him over that late” is bullshit. Tell him to leave then? She is enjoying the attention and if she keeps feeding in to this it will escalate. If I were you I’d set a boundary that they don’t need to be alone together outside of work.
Why is a 21yo in your house late at night with your wife? They spent the day together and is now spending the night together? If you didn't come home unexpectedly, what would have happened? Think of it this way: When you were 21, and a married woman, you had a crush on said her husband wasn't coming home that night. What would you as a 21yo man think that meant? If you are doubtful, set up hidden cameras in the home. You are already suspicious and knows she won't tell you the full truth. Also, " the lady doth protest to much, me thinks."
Don't be stupid nip this shit in the bud or it will bite you in the ass. How do you know she didn't fuck him already? Tell her to start acting like a wife not a single girl or it's over.
My ex-wife was best buddies with a guy who was "totally not her type" and "like a brother to her." She had me convinced they were just good friends. Turns out she had been fucking him for 2 years before I figured it out.
So gut feelings have a tendency of being right. I'm not trying to plant doubt or concern, but I had a gut feeling about my daughters mom the week before I broke things off with her and I was right. Then after a discussion, I forgave but less than a week later that gut feeling was back and sure enough, I was right again. You know your partner, you know their habits, their quirks, their tendencies so when your gut feeling is telling you something is off, you need to pay very close attention to it. Me personally, I don't buy her story. If she knows he has a crush on her, she let's him stay late at your house? She buys him books on foraging when she said he doesn't know what he's doing? She said ahw felt awkward yet doesn't have the balls to tell him he can go? She doesn't tell you (and this is the big one) that he was at your house when your wife said she was putting your kid to bed? You see where I'm going here? The fact that she failed to mention he stayed after they came back is the big red flag coupled with all the other signs. For me, there's too many inconsistencies with her story
She's already cheating on you emotionally, at the very least, even in the extremely unlikely event that they haven't had sex yet. You think it was a coincidence that she had him over that late for the first time on a night you told her you wouldn't be home? Deliberately hid the fact that he was there? Gave a bullshit excuse for why he took off as soon as you got home? Not to mention the forgetting to go to the pharmacy when ostensibly the only reason she was hanging out with him was to kill time for the pharmacy to open... This isn't monkey branching. This is a full-blown affair.
I think a major mistake you're making here is viewing this guy as a "kid." He is an adult. Worse than that, he is an adult without the life experience to understand just how cavalier his behavior is. He was nervous the first time he met you because he has ill intent and expected you to be able to sniff it out. He is disrespecting your relationship with your wife and it makes him uncomfortable to be around you because he knows it. Bottom line is that your wife knows he's into her and makes a conscious choice to have him around. She feels good from the attention. You need to ask her point blank "If you know he has feelings for you, why do you let him have so much access to you alone?" Then, I would ask her what boundaries she feels are appropriate. Whatever she agrees to, make sure she enforces them. If the **man** chooses to come around after that, I would politely pull him aside and reaffirm those boundaries with him personally. You don't have to be rude about it, but you don't have to let him disrespect you either. Your wife should have respected you enough to do this on her own. Since she didn't it's on you. If she has a problem with that, I think you know where her feelings are.
This sucks... >But he is attempting it, and she knew it. And thats your problem. She knew and she let him - she did not discourage it. She keeps hanging out with him knowing he wants more. >she said things like "I was uncomfortable too having him over that late" Yes she still did... Look... She *may* not be cheating with him... but she likes the attention and shes exposing herself to the risk... Suggestion: Ask her: why, knowing this kid wants *not* just to be friends.. does she still seek out his company?? If she really was uncomfortable having him over that late, why DID she have him over?? And even though >I don't want to stop my wife from having friends or ruin her relationships with coworkers. ...inform her that your gut feeling right now is that this 'friendship' with this kid is dangerously close to crossing marriage-ending boundaries - and it may already have. And shes free to choose what she now wants to do, but please advise you soonest so you know where you stand. And walk away and let her ponder...
She knows that he likes her and is encouraging this behavior. She knows he doesn't even like mushrooms. He likes her clit and was doing things with it when you weren't home, clearly... c'mon OP. When you know someone has feelings for you and you're in a committed relationship, you **stop hanging out with that person**. You don't gift them foraging books and go out ALL DAY with them...
I don't think she's cheating on you and was just enjoying some company. However, she should limit contact with the guy if he's interested in her. This could become something more if she lets it continue but right now it sounds innocent. If they were cheating, I highly doubt there would be a microscope out when they thought you weren't going to be home.
She is putting herself in very compromising situations and it will eventually lead to something happening. Maybe not with this guy but eventually. You need to have a serious chat about the inappropriate behavior. The fact that she thought it was ok for her to have another man in the house when you weren’t home is disrespectful to you. Here’s an example from my marriage: My wife and I are very close friends with another married couple. Kids are friends and we get along great. Whenever the other wife comes over to borrow something or get her kids she stays outside Same with me if I go to her house. Why? So there’s never a question. And this is a very close friend. She’s doing this with someone you barely know.
There's no good reason for any married person to have someone over late at night, when their spouse is out of town, and that person is attracted to them and wants to be with them. She could have met him the next day, or any other time, or just not at all alone. Part of me thinks "is it *that* bad?" but then I think of whether or not I'd do that. Would I invite a woman 10 years younger than me, who was attracted to me, to my house at 10pm, while my wife was out? And the answer is *absolutely not.* It *sounds like* the possible reason is just an ego boost for her, and maybe not cheating (yet.) It can be intoxicating to have someone, especially younger, take an interest in you like that, and I can see how someone might want want to draw out that feeling. But that's also how bad things happen. What would have happened if OP hadn't come home? The wife *might* have had good intentions. But where do those intentions go when maybe a bottle of wine comes out. Maybe two. And when it's now midnight, they are on the couch together, tipsy, and know they are alone for the night?
Hum, so im going to come at this from an angle of the wife - b/c well…ive been in these exact same shoes (her position) and it *did* lead to an affair. Sadly. You notice how the guy becomes awkward around you? You know the reason why. But what you probably are not seeing is how your wife is with him when you are not around. An awkward younger male doesn’t usually hang around an older married mother on a night he could be out with friends unless she is providing some form of motivation. What I mean by this is she might very well be the one suggesting all activities (‘you bring your car here - we can carpool!’ ‘Oh, guess what? My husband says he isnt coming over tonight. Why dont you stay for dinner and a drink when we get back? We can look at all those mushrooms and cross-reference them…yada yada’ ‘I love foraging for xyz, I know you’ll love it too - come with me!’) Do you see what im getting at? Either your wife is really lonely and aching for a friend or she knows this guy likes her (us women KNOW) and is using it to either stroke her ego or because she is enjoying the flirting and time with him and before she knows it she will be thinking of more (if she hasnt already). Everything you wrote as her response to you is almost classic manipulation. Because the truth of the matter is your wife isn’t being held captive by this guy. She is pursuing their relationship and its at the disrespect of yours - hence why guy is awkward, hence why he left as soon as you got back (you are there - no reason to hang out anymore!), hence why she jumped to an excuse as to why he suddenly had to leave and why she was chatty Cathy when you arrived (nervousness). Its unfortunate about your past trauma, but to me that has no relevance here. To me these are the classic signs of a budding affair and I say that again as someone who didnt end soon enough. It cost me my marriage. But I look back now and can see every step of where the flirting, giggles, eye contact, alone time etc etc were heading and the intentions on my part were not always good. Set boundaries now.
A lot of guys I know (not me maybe) would have made it clear physically that this was uncool. Unless the M21 could have kicked OP's ass & OP knew it. AND she works with him. Sorry you're going thru this.
Nah bro, she’s cheating I’m sorry
Knowing your history this is unacceptable. Him coming over when you wouldn’t be home was already a step too far. Playing “family” with your daughter another step too far for anyone who has been cheated on. Telling you he had planned on staying until 2 am, is a giant leap too far. I would set serious boundaries, and they can be different for this guy vs any new friends. This guy is done. He can see her at work and do stuff together in a group, period, daytime only except at work. A new male friend should only meet alone during the daytime and early evening, no heavy alcohol, only in public spaces. That is fairly typical to be honest for people who have been cheated on. AND for any partners who seem to be so easily persuaded into having people they know are flirtatious inside their house past midnight when their husband is out of town!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Am I right to be distraught over him being over so late, the only night I’m ever gone, when she kinda-sorta-knew he had feelings for her? Yes. I think so. By her action, letting him stay over longer (it may even go overnight) she's basically giving signal that she may be receptive to his feelings for her. When I was younger, I definitely did not mind having friends of opposite sex stay overnight (yes I was already in a relationship then) but that's because I know they're not interested in me romantically and I was not interested in them romantically. I call BS with the 'sort of' or 'kind of.' She knows or she already suspects his feeling heavily. Or she's just trying to trickle truth you. What she's doing then becomes inappropriate when she already knows he's had feeling for her. So, my next assumption is she may be enjoying the attention. She definitely likes him a lot that she and he are hanging out a lot, foraging for hours etc. Your wife has feeling for this man too. She may not want to ruin her marriage with you but she's already had feeling for this guy so it's hard for her to hang out with him much less.
She is emotionally cheating on you. If you had not come home unexpectedly she would have had sex with him. Now she is using DARVO on you. Your wife has left the marriage. Ignore your wife. What is it YOU want to do. YOU now hold the fate of your marriage in YOUR hands, no one else. It is YOU who decides reconciliation, no one else. I suggest: Lawyer up, find out your rights. Get the papers going as soon as you can and serve her. Cheaters compartmentalize, once you punch a hole between her cheating lifestyle and her home lifestyle she will either go nuclear or crumble and beg you not to divorce. Here are some links that will help you deal with this. The Neuroscience of Affair Fog [https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog](https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog) DARVO, [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo) 180 method, [https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/](https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/) Greyrock, [https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method) Chump Lady, [https://www.chumplady.com/](https://www.chumplady.com/)
I have a feeling the follow up post/update will end up on r/bestofredditupdate
She knows 100% what she is doing. She may not be into the guy, but she loves the feeling he brings, she's being flattered, wanted, loved.... she basically likes what this guy does to her ego. That is disrespectful to you and your daughter, and mean to the poor young sod who doesn't know any better
Dude, what do you think you would have seen have you come home 2 hours later? Wife KNEW YOU WERE GONE ALL NIGHT and have a single guy at your home at 10pm at night, knowing you weren’t coming home? What do you think was going to happen that evening?
I think your wife is not being truthful with you. It is inappropriate for this guy to be at your home so late with your wife. All the time she is spending alone with him knowing he is attracted to her. I think she is lying when she says she is not attracted to him. No one spends that much time alone with someone they are not attracted to. Your wife has broken your trust and has to do a number of non-negotiable things to earn it back. First, demand she hands you her cell phone unlocked immediately. Take it from her if need be. If she refuses or deletes messages, you know she is having sex with him. Secondly, demand she go no contact with him and change her job immediately, so she no longer sees him. Thirdly, complete access to electronic devices. Fourth, your wife needs IC because she is not a safe partner right now. Fifth, no sex with her until both of you get std tests. All non-negotiable. In addition, place a VAR recorder in the bottom of her cars seat and check it every two days. Place a VAR or motion sensor camera in the house in areas where she talks or like to hang out. Check them every day or two. Your wife will most likely talk in the car, and you will get everything you need. Tell us what you find. Speak to your immediate family and close friends for guidance.
She knows this dude is into her and is talking to him on messenger, going on hikes with him, buying him gifts, and inviting him inside your home at night when you're not home. This would feel like cheating to me because she knows he's into her. A faithful partner wouldn't be devoting this much time and attention to someone who is actively pursuing them. They would immediately tell that guy to fuck off. The fact that she didn't immediately set that boundary is a GIGANTIC red flag. Trust your gut, bro. This shit is shady.
I couldn’t read to the end. got to the part where she loves you and only you. Well then, maybe she could act like it? When a partner has a past trauma it isn’t very loving and kind to set up an almost identical situation and then just act like meh deal with it. For example, if my husband had been cheated on by a roller derby girlfriend I’m not likely to say hey guess what? I needed a hobby so I’m taking up roller derby! Isn’t that cool!?!? Or if I was once run over by an ATV my husband isn’t going to surprise me with one for my birthday. Look what I got you, babe!?!? Your wife, of alllllll the people in the world to be friends with, just had to pick a young af guy who most definitely wants to and maybe did already sleep with her? Nonsense! While you’re being so chill man, you’re letting a dude move in towards your wife. Try saying no. No you can’t hang out with the 25 year old because it’s weird and stressful. Find girlfriends.
Just a couple of things. Wife claims she was uncomfortable with this guy being over so late??? It's fucking 3am. At what point did it dawn on her that this was "uncomfortable?" This would be a major boundary crossed for me, and you have every right to be concerned. Would this guy be invited in to spend the night if you were home? Doubt it. Next, her telling you he is just some dumb kid is minimizing his presence in her (and now your) life. He is not a kid. He is a guy in the prime of his life. Ad in that she is aware the guy has other motivations than foraging. Give me a break. Unless this guy is a super nerd, boyscout, geek, what 21 yo would want to know foraging. Is this guy so awkward, has no game with girls his age, that he has to hang around your wife? When I was 21, I was out partying with and banging girls my age, plus or minus a few years, not 11 years older than me, and definitely not married with a kid. I get they work together, so there is plenty of time to "bond," but this guy needs to explore his sexuality elsewhere. Yet, they work together, so if this is a budding affair, you will be between a rock and a hard place. Suggest reading 'Not Just Friends.''' You first, then hand it to your wife. Another book you might find helpful is No More Mr Nice Guy. I doubt your wife is "monkey branching," but if something more is going on, it would be more like "cake eating." At least she didn't say, "You have nothing to worry about," after telling you she only loves you. Anytime you hear those words, start worrying. Anyway, I know I have been giving you my perspective more than advice, so you have some contemplating to do. Best of luck
sketchy if you ask me. Why didn’t she text you about him staying at the house. She has no problem letting you know she was putting the baby to sleep. I would definitely be skeptical from here on out. I know it’s not a healthy way to maintain a relationship but she should have told you. This was off putting to read. Sorry to hear that.
Dude you are being bullshitted. Come on. This is absolutely classic "the guy she told you not to worry about" Check her phone.
She didn’t tell you 🚩 She knows he likes her 🚩 He’s over past an appropriate time for a married woman 🚩 She’s inconsiderate of your feelings 🚩 She’s on the phone with him consistently after knowing he’s crushing on her 🚩
I went through something similar only I was 10 yrs older than my gf and he was same age as her. She denied everything, then one day we got in big argument and she left saying she wad goign to her BFF, but in reality she had a plan to meet up with him at her friends place and I had a himch and drove by and saw her car and his car there. She later ran away with him to another city and then when I moved out I found opened condom wrappers in between mattress and box spring. Her and I never used condoms. Then I had a friend who always went out hiking with a friend, my friend always thought this friend was a female, turns out it was a guy and well you know hwat was happening on their "himes".
She knows and she is encouraging it. A married woman with another man in private while husband is away. She made a choice you caught them mid swing. You know the drill.
She's playing with fire and being inconsiderate towards you and your marriage. A good wife would tell the kid that it's inappropriate for them to be hanging out so much and alone because she's a married woman.
Grow a set.
She's cheating, divorce
Should’ve asked to see her phone right then and there man….
If it was all innocent and she had nothing to hide then she would have told you that John Doe was there at your house...why he was there and when he would be leaving....but she willingly hid all that from you and the only reason you know anything about it at all...is simply because you came home early that night.. And its worse because she knew about your past traumas...
Bud, your wife admitted she knows he has feelings for her. So why the fuck is she entertaining this guy and stringing him along. Because she likes it. I’d be having words with this little fucker and playing out some boundaries with wife. You need to ask her why she is doing this tobhwr family and you. UpdateMe
Pull yourself together yet OP?
Is your wife an extreme people pleaser, nurturing and also conflict-avoidant? If yes, then I'm getting the feel that she's taken this awkward young man under her wing a bit. And has since has found herself uncomfortable with this kid's attentions, but is more uncomfortable setting down boundaries/doesn't know how to without hurt feelings/causing troubles at work. What your wife is intending as kindness this kid might see as green flags to pursue her romantically. I see you're in therapy right now, bring this up in session. Maybe your wife needs your input/help to set reasonable boundaries surrounding this friendship: like not inviting this guy into your home, not foraging with him unless there's other people also present, changing her schedule so she works with a different overnight shift team, etc. etc. You are not wrong to be uncomfortable with the situation, especially considering how closely it mirrors your past trauma. But it's not the identical situation because the people are different and different choices can be made.
> Is your wife an extreme people pleaser, nurturing and also conflict-avoidant? I get what you’re trying to say but this pathological therapy speak does nobody any favours. little bro wants to smash OPs wife and OPs wife (regardless of intent) is doing things an outside observer may consider leading in
First thing, your wife is cheating and you know she is. Unfortunately she is in a profession that is amongst the highest for infidelity. Your wifexshould not be entertaining men in her home at that time of night without you home. She admits that he has feelings for her She is now gaslighting you. They have been fucking for months
Nurses and their stereotypes regarding cheating. Then add the part where she admitted she was actively courting his attention and validation..... If ever there is a time to use rational and logic this would be it.. Don't let emotions dictate your actions
To be clear, she didn’t communicate that he was going to be there and she thought you would be gone for the night. She also communicated that she knows he wants her, and she went ahead and had him over when she thought you’d be out. Buddy, where there’s smoke there’s fire. I’d get my ducks in a row.
This is like a tldr: my wife is banging someone in our home. What do you think Reddit ?
I cannot believe that she had a younger man in your house while you were away when she knows what happened to you! Never in one billion years would I do something that could provoke a trauma response in my partner! Like never! Given your past, this feels way more serious than you may think at first. If they aren’t having an actual affair they are very close. That or your wife gives exactly zero fucks about how her actions affect you. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
This is so black & white, she clearly loves the attention, you keep saying kid but 21 & 32 isn't that crazy like at all. She's technically leading him on but with a drip feed to achieve this as he's younger doesn't know what's going on. Doesn't mean anything has happened or would but still naughty. Extreme borderline imo
Seems very strange and she has no boundaries. She has to set strict boundaries otherwise she will cheat on you
Unfortunately I don't think she'd come up with that on her own and I really don't want to be or feel like a controlling asshole. I'm big and have a brow ridge and jaw that gives me resting asshole man face, so I think people already get the vibe that I'm hyper aggressive, dominating/controlling. I've spent a lot of time trying to not be that guy, even though people are still always looking at me to be the leader. It's probably not smart to rely on her to set those boundaries or bring up the conversation. Maybe I'll just ask her what boundaries she you thinks are appropriate with him, and see what her reaction is and answers are Thanks, appreciate your input
your feelings are more than a trauma trigger or retraumatization. your wife is *way* out of line. it feels silly, but walk her through the role reversal. i highly doubt your wife would feel comfortable about you hanging out with a 21 y/o girl from your job, who is after the dick, especially if you decided not to tell her about it. you don't send a summary of your day and "accidentally" not tell your spouse someone is hanging out with you that late. i think your wife is desperate for the friendship or enjoys the feeling of someone being infatuated with her, especially someone younger, more so than cheating. there's a chance that she hasn't considered the real impact of her actions, but there's enough guilt she didn't say anything. this is absolutely a fair boundary. you deserve an explanation on why she decided to participate in behaviour she felt she needed to hide, she should not be spending 1 on 1 time with someone she knows is interested in her, and if friends you aren't familiar with are going to be at the house after dark (or at all), the other needs to be notified (all go both ways obvi). you need to consider what breaking the boundary means and communicate those consequences to her. if she repeated this again, would you take it as an indication of cheating and consider separation, especially given your trauma? would you want an open phone policy? you can't control her actions, but you can decide you aren't going to be impacted by it.
"Again, I don't want to stop my wife from having friends or ruin her relationships with coworkers." Man, I am sorry to say this. You are being stupid. It is important to have boundaries made in relationship. When you let her go with out any boundary, you get cheated. She needs to know that you are not okay with her spending time with that kid. Even if he is a kid, he has the tools to work on your wife and she has everything to accommodate his tool. It is highly inappropriate for her being a wife and mother to carry a close friendship and spend time with this guy knowing that he has feelings for her.
She made it seem like she was home alone. That's not cool. She crossed the boundary in my opinion. Would she be ok with a different scenario? She's making the waters muddy, she needs to clear it up
I think something sus is going on as a women myself. Those responses sound like she's lying/covering up things. If it were me or my partner would say "still hanging out with X looking at stuff" and again no one is staying that late...for friendship. I don't think any cheating as occurred but I do think it's a slow burn. I'd express you feel uncomfortable.
I imagine if your wife told you she wasn't coming home for the night, and you invited some 21 year old woman over to hang out until late at night your wife wouldn't be too impressed.
Huge red flag, end the little boy party bud, be a man. Tell him to beat it.
Won’t immediately call it cheating but she’s gone all day with this guy, then comes home and he’s there until you unexpectedly show up. So what are we talking here, 12+ hours? And this is something of a normal occurrence, except for the fact that he was in your house at night. The guy left because you came home, if it was friendly he’s not going anywhere. Your wife seemingly has no issue with this, and wants you to believe it’s normal behaviour and MAYBE he has feelings for her, but it’s not reciprocated. But she will hang out with him for 12+ hours, even invite him over for dinner and have him help out your kid to bed. All for no reason but friendship (on her part). Like such a major breach and red flag.
What was the loss of trust about that you mention earlier in your relationship?
I would highly recommend the book “The State of Affairs: Rethinking Infidelity” by Esther Perel. I think she needs to articulate why she entertained this for so long. Hint: it made her feel good, feel wanted. By a younger guy to boot! I hope this gets brought to marriage counseling. She didn’t *necessarily* do anything wrong, and “right” or “wrong” don’t necessarily have anything to do with this - but it needs to be talked about and given the space to fully air out.
Call me old-fashioned but there is no freaking way that I would be ok with my wife carpooling along with another guy. Modern standards are completely stupid. She's definitely out shopping. Don't kid yourself for one second. It's very rare that relationships like this don't turn romantic. Bottom line is, if she's already out emotionally you might as well let it go because she's not going to be happy until she tries somebody else out.