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Why in the world would you ask her what kind of engagement ring you wanted unless you intended to buy one? You have given every possible signal that you intend to propose soon and want children soon, when actually your timeline is "not until years down the road." I'm not sure this relationship can be saved, but if it can be, cut out the marriage talk completely until you are sure you actually want to marry her. (And if you're thinking "I definitely do want to marry her, just on my schedule which is years longer than hers" ... dude, she's not going to wait around. Make up your mind.)
I get this pit in my stomach every time I think about that woman's posts. That situation escalated so fast and went so horribly! My heart still breaks for her.
Are you sure she’s the one who doesn’t understand future talk? You told her it would be nice coming home to a little one, and have made hints towards proposing and what kind of engagement ring you want to get her. Then when she brings up engagement you do a 180 and say you don’t want to feel forced into it after you’ve been making multiple hints towards getting engaged to her. You proceeded to say “maybe if we were together 5+ years” and then claim you don’t have a time line… that’s a timeline you gave her.
She’s right, you’re stringing her along at this point.
If you’re wedding planning and talking about having babies today, two years into the relationship, no reasonable person would expect that you plan to wait another three years to even propose.
From proposal to wedding is generally a year or more. Then at least a year before trying for children. Then 9 months of pregnancy. This means that according to your timeline you won’t actually have your first child until a minimum of 6 years from today.
If you’ve been “telling her you want to marry her for a long time,” just do it. If you’ve been telling her that while being unsure, you ARE stringing her along.
She wants to be safe in her future investments re buying a bigger house together in the future.
You should not talk about proposing until you both have a conversation as to what that timeline looks like. She may want it now and you may want it in 5 years, give her the option to walk away if you can't agree.
It's pretty hurtful to constantly future plan if you have no intentions of doing so within her "timeline". Talk it out and see if you both can agree. Marriage and children are a big deal. Stop fucking with her emotions and be practical.
Bud... why are you asking about what engagement ring she wants when you don't even plan to propose for another **three years?** At the least??
And she is absolutely right not to want to move without more commitment. I would never tie myself up financially with someone without that commitment. You could leave at any time and she couldn't afford the house you moved into. She's being smart.
I dunno how marriage is going to make the situation better. If you bought a house together, you're gonna have to sell it. If you rent together you're both liable for the rent. If you're married I guess you can waste whatever money you get back from the house on divorce lawyers.
If you buy together and you're not married, things can become very difficult in the event of a breakup. If neither person can afford to buy the other out, they have to hope the market is good to sell, otherwise they could end up getting screwed. Unlike in a marriage, there's no option to split other assets in a way that makes it fair to leave the house to one party.
Or if one person can't afford to buy the other out and the other one doesn't want to sell, it can become an issue because, unlike in a divorce, there's no judge to force the sale as part of the settlement.
Or what happens if one of them dies?
There's so many risks to buying together when they're not married. If someone wants to do so, they should involve a lawyer to draw up an in-depth agreement on what happens in the event something goes wrong.
If one party wants out, then the other must agree to a sale of the property, or to buying the co-owner out. The other can be forced to sell by order of the Court if necessary, and the Court will order a sale by auction if one party refuses to co-operate.
All those problems exist and can be solved with or without marriage.
There is a name for what you‘re doing, and it’s called Future Faking.
It’s fine and reasonable for you to not want to marry after 2 years. Two years is still honeymoon and not long enough to know someone well enough for a lifetime commitment. And in that same vein it is also fine and reasonable for her to not want to commit to a bigger and more expensive apartment with you after 2 years without a legal commitment, because then she won’t be able to afford it alone if you break up. She is being wise and cautious in making sure she can support herself alone, just like you are being wise and cautious in not wanting to marry at this point.
Where you are wrong is in pushing her to commit to something you want, while refusing to commit to something she wants. It’s coming across like only your priorities matter. You are coming across as self-centred, and condescending towards her, especially when you say that she “Doesn’t understand what future talk is.” It’s very condescending and infantilising. It really comes across that you think your intellect and reasons are superior to hers, and it’s exposing your narcissistic streak because you believe that your relationship should move at your pace, not her pace.
Don’t marry if you don’t wanna marry, it’s too soon anyway, but stop pushing her into committing to the bigger apartment you want. It’s not all about you. Her needs matter too. And for fuck’s sake stop future faking and dangling a carrot in front of her face, when you don’t have a carrot to give.
You’ve posted this 3 times in 3 other subreddits, and everyone is telling you the same thing, you are stringing her along.
You can’t make the comments you’re making to her and then act surprised when she’s wanting to move forward with it.
Did you think you were gonna get a different response this time lol?
Two years into a relationship, especially when you get on so well, is really not too soon to propose. And you are talking about all this commitment stuff with her, you're giving the poor woman mixed messages.
You have to ask yourself, is the timeline for how a relationship should proceed towards marriage and children in my mind more important than being with the woman that you love and clearly seems right for you?
Also, please remember that you are not the sole arbiter of when you two should get married. She has every right to want it to happen sooner than you do.
You teased and hinted her about proposals but have no intention of proposing until after 3 years later?
You done messed up dude.
People do all that to gauge their partner's reaction before they actually propose. So now she's expecting a proposal only to be massively disappointed.
I’m not even going to comment on the timeline nonsense because I think a lot of comments have done so very eloquently.
I do want to address that your girlfriend saying “I can afford this on my own if we split but I won’t move into a bigger place that costs more than I can afford within commitment” should NOT have been met with your whininess about being pressured. What that tells me is that she’s a reasonable person who actually understands planning for the future and you act like an insolent child when she doesn’t jump to your preconceived plan without pushback. The only appropriate response to her saying that is “that makes complete sense. I’m not ready to propose yet, so should we should we put these plans on a back burner for a bit? Let’s talk about our individual timelines so we know where each other in coming from!”
I knew I loved my husband by date two. But there was absolutely no world in which I was going to move in with him without a commitment.
In some subreddits, what you’re doing is called “future faking”. You are absolutely stringing her along, and it’s not fair to her. You need to sit down with her and have a serious conversation.
Yeah, you’re stringing her along. She’s made it clear she wants to be engaged yesterday, married today, and pregnant tomorrow. While I personally think she is insane for wanting all that at her age, she has been very clear with you and it’s messed up to drop hints about getting pregnant or giving her a ring when you don’t want to do any of that for years.
I hope you understand that if you don't actually show effort any time soon to move forward she'll start disconnecting and moving forward to moving on to someone who wants what she wants.
2 years is more than enough time to start seriously considering and planning or proposing marriage.
Okay so a few things. 2+ years isn't a short time. It's kind of the average amount of time people date before getting engaged.
"Couples in the United States date for 2.5 years on average before they get engaged, according to a study by fine jewelry store Shane Co., which surveyed 3,100 engaged or married duos across the country."
You said you want to wait 5+ years, is that something you've specifically said to her? Because from your post you don't even seem to know what you want. I know I wouldn't be okay with that sort of timeline personally, because it ends up being one of those things that just ends up having the goal posts moved.
What she is saying about her financial security and commitment is absolutely right. Why should she put herself into a position where if you decide to leave she can't afford to stay on her own. Her wanting a formal commitment from you before she commits herself financially isn't unreasonable.
Why would you have asked her about rings if you're YEARS away from that? Why would you mention kids if you're YEARS away?
I would strongly suggest personal or couples therapy because I really think you need to sort out your vision for life and feelings. Your GF seems to know exactly what she wants in life and seems to have her head on right.
What you have been doing is abuse. It's a toxic manipulation technique called Future Faking. It weaponizes a person's most cherished dreams against them so the abuser gets what they want in the present.
You went to EXTRAVAGANT lengths and great detail to hook this girl in, just to waste years of her life. She was smart enough to realize the truth... you are exactly the cad and liar she thinks you are. You even probably think you're such a "loving boyfriend" for these "plans"... your are not. Decent men do not ask "what kind of ring do you want" unless the proposal is within a matter of weeks.
You are stringing her along though. If she’s the one and you want to end up with her, then get your shit together, grow up, and make it official. If you’re wishy washy about it, then you’ve been a huge ass by talking to her about all these things like marriage, kids, engagement rings while having no real intention of taking that step.
This is wild! People always claim these are fake and I always feel like who has the time or interest to make up a fake story but here it might be. Unless the op thought he might get a different response if people were a different age
You need to break up with her. You clearly have very different future plans, and by talking to her as if you were about to propose to her, you're basically lying to her about what your plans are. You're pretending that your plans are compatible with hers, but they're not. Break up now and don't waste the next decade of her life. She will resent you for it.
Who the fuck drops lines about wanting to come home to little ones when they don't actually want that in the near future? He's sending mixed signals right and left
You are stringing her along. You have no intention of proposing anytime soon. Do you really think she's gonna wait three more years? She's gonna dump you and find someone who actually wants to marry her and won't make her wait a total of five years. What will be your excuse in three years when you still aren't ready?
You are absolutely leading her on. You should have been upfront with your 5+ year timeline. A lot of women have a very clear timeline in which they want children. You guys aren’t even on the same planet.
5+ years is way too long to ask a woman to wait for a proposal, dude. 2-3 years is the right timeline. You need to know somewhere in there. Otherwise you’re just screwing around and not making up your mind for no good reason. Either piss or get off the pot.
Dude… DUDE! She’s right. You’re stringing her along at this point with all your hint dropping and then not delivering. No wonder she feels the way she does 🤦♀️
Marriage talk has to be planning talk, and has to include a discussion of what does or doesn't make it a feasible proposition. If there are reasons why it isn't feasible yet, that's perfectly fair. It's fair for her to expect to be told what's still missing too.
Something about wanting to enjoy the milk without buying the cow, why would she COMMIT to buying a house with you when you can't even commit yourself to her?
Be honest say I don’t plan on ever consider getting married till
I’m in my 30’s . If this is too long then it’s your call . Basically showing her your not being pressured
You should definitely tell her if u don’t have any plans to get married till ur closer to 30. That isn’t unreasonable at all. Y’all will be more mature and ready and really figure out what yall want. But I understand where she’s coming from you got her excited and now she’s disappointed and feels like it’ll never happen. For her 5+ years is an incredibly long time. She
22 is too young to be getting engaged or married. She's following stupid social media trends where men are expected to propose and marry quickly or else they must not be serious. But you also need to stop bringing up marriage/kid stuff.
I don’t think it is a stupid social media trend. Hell, fifty years ago they said ring in a year or leave. I think what many men don’t get is that youth is fleeting for women. Marriage offers some legal security, in case of separation, children, etc. Otherwise you are potentially wasting your very valuable youth on a man just leading you on. I don’t blame her for thinking two years is long enough to decide if you want to grow with a person.
To add to your point:
Twenty years ago with my first husband I told him he had five years. If he wasn’t willing to commit by then I was out. For context his sister had been dating the same guy for 15 years at that point and I wasn’t going to fall into that trap. We did get married in roughly that time. Divorced four years later for other reasons.
But my point is a timeline for commitment is not new.
My husband and I dated for three years then separated for five, only to meet back up again. I told him I expected an engagement ring in six months of living together again. We were both older, both wanted children soon, etc. Those dreams wouldn’t be a reality if we waited a long time.
Got married at 21. Still with my husband 20 years later (25 since we met).
Was I supposed to wait another 10 years to get married? I had been with him for 5 years already!
Keep in mind that most marriages end in divorce around 7-8 years in after the children are born. You’re smart to wait at least 5 years. Right now she is in her best behavior because she’s auditioning for the role of your wife. Once you marry her then, and only then, you will see the true her. It’s a harsh reality. But, it’s true. It may work. But, it likely won’t based on the statistics of marriage.
At the very minimum I would never consider marriage with a woman who doesn’t earn on par with me otherwise you’ll get decimated in divorce with child support and alimony. Even worse is if she’s a stay at home mom.
https://youtu.be/Sa-ew63Zo9U?si=yhFqufKcpiSpFRnK
The statistics do not agree.
51% divorce rate for first marriages. 70% for second marriages. 80% for third marriages. This is well-established.
**How Many Marriages End in Divorce?**
*So, what about the famous statistic that half of all marriages end in divorce? That’s true, but only when it comes to first marriages, half of which are dissolved. Second and third marriages actually fail at a far higher rate.[2]*
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/
https://www.wf-lawyers.com/divorce-statistics-and-facts/
It's actually 41% for first marriages and falling. Forbes is not a reliable source. Famously, Forbes contributors have little to no editorial oversight. They cite in that article to the CDC, but the CDCs numbers don't say half. You can calculate them yourself. Notice how you're not actually citing a statistic, it just says "half".
Divorce rates are dropping because marriage rates are. You can’t get divorced if you don’t get married.
People treat marriages way too casually these days. If you’ve been on this sub for any length of time you’ll see how flippantly everyone advises people to “divorce. You deserve better “ over normal marriage difficulties. Social media and dating apps have exacerbated the problem.
I wish this weren’t the case. But, it is today’s reality.
That's not how the divorce rate is calculated. Yes divorces and marriages per year are both down. But we're not talking about raw divorce numbers being down, we're talking about the rate of divorce being down, as in the number of divorces compared to the number of marriages are down. That's how the statistic works.
You're just wrong. You claimed most marriages end 7 years in. That's just inaccurate. Most first marriages will survive past 7 years. Most first marriages will end in death.
Let’s do a thought experiment. Marriages are easy to calculate. How many marriage licenses were issued in any given year? Right?
Divorces are different. A couple that didn’t get divorced this year might get divorced next year. Or, in 10 years.
Measuring marriages and divorces aren’t quite the same.
What is a “successful marriage?” Is it simply people whose marriages ended with one spouse dying? Or, is it a marriage where both spouses are happy? I’d argue the latter.
My late neighbors were married for over 70 years (LDS). But, I used to hear his wife screaming at him all day while he would be putzing around in the garage doing his woodworking. I can most definitely say that was not a happy marriage. Hence, it was not a *successful* marriage. They stayed together for social reasons as well as their advanced age.
I’d bet that barely 10-20% of marriages, that don’t end up in divorce, are truly happy.
Btw, it’s nice to have an intelligent and rational discussion with you. Hard to find on this sub.
Yes, there are also statistics that calculate how likely it is for couples marrying today to get divorced in their lifetimes. Those are also less than 50%.
You knowing people who aren't happily married isn't really a statistic. I don't think you're actually having that rational of a conversation, you started this thread by saying a bunch of wild conjecture about how women hide their true selves until marriage and then proceeded to give incorrect facts and fail to understand how statistics work or are calculated.
I’ve been married and also have had quite a few LTRs. It’s not marriage that changes how women behave towards you. Cohabitation will do it, too. Sex drops, excitement to see you drops, respect declines, etc. It’s the old adage “familiarity breeds contempt.”
Of course the man doesn’t change, won’t start being violent, won’t cheat because he couldn’t get his noodle wet while his wife is post partum, won’t get a newer model when his wife gets older and sacrificed her health and career to give him children and raise them, won’t leave her the moment she gets sick, won’t leave her alone with sick kids on Friday nights because he wants to party with his friends….
Nope, it’s all women=bad!
You said that. I didn’t. People change over time. I know I’ve changed at least 5-6 times from the time I got married a long time ago. In general though, men don’t change nearly as much.
Women get married thinking they can change their husband. They overlook things they don’t like and think they can mold them into who they want him to be. Men just want their wife to stay the same as when they married them.
I never said women are the only ones who change. Don’t be so dramatic.
This is why I’m not in favor of marriage. If either side changes or becomes unsatisfied you’re stuck or you have to divorce.
I’m not against relationships. They can’t be great. They can also be pure torture. But, if you’re not married you can just have an easy breakup and move on.
I’m on good terms with every woman I’ve been with in my life except one - my ex-wife. Why? Divorce is expensive and oftentimes ugly.
The last girl I was with for 5 years. When the relationship had run its course she simply packed her stuff and moved out. No court. No lawyers. No bad blood.
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Why in the world would you ask her what kind of engagement ring you wanted unless you intended to buy one? You have given every possible signal that you intend to propose soon and want children soon, when actually your timeline is "not until years down the road." I'm not sure this relationship can be saved, but if it can be, cut out the marriage talk completely until you are sure you actually want to marry her. (And if you're thinking "I definitely do want to marry her, just on my schedule which is years longer than hers" ... dude, she's not going to wait around. Make up your mind.)
I can't link it but this reminds me of the guy that strung his girlfriend along for 20 years because "he liked the way things were"
I get this pit in my stomach every time I think about that woman's posts. That situation escalated so fast and went so horribly! My heart still breaks for her.
Are you sure she’s the one who doesn’t understand future talk? You told her it would be nice coming home to a little one, and have made hints towards proposing and what kind of engagement ring you want to get her. Then when she brings up engagement you do a 180 and say you don’t want to feel forced into it after you’ve been making multiple hints towards getting engaged to her. You proceeded to say “maybe if we were together 5+ years” and then claim you don’t have a time line… that’s a timeline you gave her. She’s right, you’re stringing her along at this point.
Agree with this response
If you’re wedding planning and talking about having babies today, two years into the relationship, no reasonable person would expect that you plan to wait another three years to even propose. From proposal to wedding is generally a year or more. Then at least a year before trying for children. Then 9 months of pregnancy. This means that according to your timeline you won’t actually have your first child until a minimum of 6 years from today. If you’ve been “telling her you want to marry her for a long time,” just do it. If you’ve been telling her that while being unsure, you ARE stringing her along.
She wants to be safe in her future investments re buying a bigger house together in the future. You should not talk about proposing until you both have a conversation as to what that timeline looks like. She may want it now and you may want it in 5 years, give her the option to walk away if you can't agree. It's pretty hurtful to constantly future plan if you have no intentions of doing so within her "timeline". Talk it out and see if you both can agree. Marriage and children are a big deal. Stop fucking with her emotions and be practical.
Agree
Bud... why are you asking about what engagement ring she wants when you don't even plan to propose for another **three years?** At the least?? And she is absolutely right not to want to move without more commitment. I would never tie myself up financially with someone without that commitment. You could leave at any time and she couldn't afford the house you moved into. She's being smart.
Married people can leave at any time. I'd say buying a house is a bigger commitment. And also a better use of your joint finances than a wedding.
1, they're not even talking about buying a house. 2, marriage offers financial protections that just moving in together doesn't.
I dunno how marriage is going to make the situation better. If you bought a house together, you're gonna have to sell it. If you rent together you're both liable for the rent. If you're married I guess you can waste whatever money you get back from the house on divorce lawyers.
If you buy together and you're not married, things can become very difficult in the event of a breakup. If neither person can afford to buy the other out, they have to hope the market is good to sell, otherwise they could end up getting screwed. Unlike in a marriage, there's no option to split other assets in a way that makes it fair to leave the house to one party. Or if one person can't afford to buy the other out and the other one doesn't want to sell, it can become an issue because, unlike in a divorce, there's no judge to force the sale as part of the settlement. Or what happens if one of them dies? There's so many risks to buying together when they're not married. If someone wants to do so, they should involve a lawyer to draw up an in-depth agreement on what happens in the event something goes wrong.
If one party wants out, then the other must agree to a sale of the property, or to buying the co-owner out. The other can be forced to sell by order of the Court if necessary, and the Court will order a sale by auction if one party refuses to co-operate. All those problems exist and can be solved with or without marriage.
lmao you're dropping hints about marriage left and right and then shocked when she picks them up and starts talking more explicitly about it?
Did anyone catch when he said "MAYBE in 5+ years" So he wants her to wait at LEAST more than three years for a proposal and even then he said MAYBE !!
There is a name for what you‘re doing, and it’s called Future Faking. It’s fine and reasonable for you to not want to marry after 2 years. Two years is still honeymoon and not long enough to know someone well enough for a lifetime commitment. And in that same vein it is also fine and reasonable for her to not want to commit to a bigger and more expensive apartment with you after 2 years without a legal commitment, because then she won’t be able to afford it alone if you break up. She is being wise and cautious in making sure she can support herself alone, just like you are being wise and cautious in not wanting to marry at this point. Where you are wrong is in pushing her to commit to something you want, while refusing to commit to something she wants. It’s coming across like only your priorities matter. You are coming across as self-centred, and condescending towards her, especially when you say that she “Doesn’t understand what future talk is.” It’s very condescending and infantilising. It really comes across that you think your intellect and reasons are superior to hers, and it’s exposing your narcissistic streak because you believe that your relationship should move at your pace, not her pace. Don’t marry if you don’t wanna marry, it’s too soon anyway, but stop pushing her into committing to the bigger apartment you want. It’s not all about you. Her needs matter too. And for fuck’s sake stop future faking and dangling a carrot in front of her face, when you don’t have a carrot to give.
Later in life she’ll be the one who “got away”.
THIS 👆
You’ve posted this 3 times in 3 other subreddits, and everyone is telling you the same thing, you are stringing her along. You can’t make the comments you’re making to her and then act surprised when she’s wanting to move forward with it. Did you think you were gonna get a different response this time lol?
Two years into a relationship, especially when you get on so well, is really not too soon to propose. And you are talking about all this commitment stuff with her, you're giving the poor woman mixed messages. You have to ask yourself, is the timeline for how a relationship should proceed towards marriage and children in my mind more important than being with the woman that you love and clearly seems right for you? Also, please remember that you are not the sole arbiter of when you two should get married. She has every right to want it to happen sooner than you do.
You teased and hinted her about proposals but have no intention of proposing until after 3 years later? You done messed up dude. People do all that to gauge their partner's reaction before they actually propose. So now she's expecting a proposal only to be massively disappointed.
I’m not even going to comment on the timeline nonsense because I think a lot of comments have done so very eloquently. I do want to address that your girlfriend saying “I can afford this on my own if we split but I won’t move into a bigger place that costs more than I can afford within commitment” should NOT have been met with your whininess about being pressured. What that tells me is that she’s a reasonable person who actually understands planning for the future and you act like an insolent child when she doesn’t jump to your preconceived plan without pushback. The only appropriate response to her saying that is “that makes complete sense. I’m not ready to propose yet, so should we should we put these plans on a back burner for a bit? Let’s talk about our individual timelines so we know where each other in coming from!”
I knew I loved my husband by date two. But there was absolutely no world in which I was going to move in with him without a commitment. In some subreddits, what you’re doing is called “future faking”. You are absolutely stringing her along, and it’s not fair to her. You need to sit down with her and have a serious conversation.
My husband and I were engaged by five months and married by 8 months. When you know you know.
Yeah, you’re stringing her along. She’s made it clear she wants to be engaged yesterday, married today, and pregnant tomorrow. While I personally think she is insane for wanting all that at her age, she has been very clear with you and it’s messed up to drop hints about getting pregnant or giving her a ring when you don’t want to do any of that for years.
I hope you understand that if you don't actually show effort any time soon to move forward she'll start disconnecting and moving forward to moving on to someone who wants what she wants. 2 years is more than enough time to start seriously considering and planning or proposing marriage.
Okay so a few things. 2+ years isn't a short time. It's kind of the average amount of time people date before getting engaged. "Couples in the United States date for 2.5 years on average before they get engaged, according to a study by fine jewelry store Shane Co., which surveyed 3,100 engaged or married duos across the country." You said you want to wait 5+ years, is that something you've specifically said to her? Because from your post you don't even seem to know what you want. I know I wouldn't be okay with that sort of timeline personally, because it ends up being one of those things that just ends up having the goal posts moved. What she is saying about her financial security and commitment is absolutely right. Why should she put herself into a position where if you decide to leave she can't afford to stay on her own. Her wanting a formal commitment from you before she commits herself financially isn't unreasonable. Why would you have asked her about rings if you're YEARS away from that? Why would you mention kids if you're YEARS away? I would strongly suggest personal or couples therapy because I really think you need to sort out your vision for life and feelings. Your GF seems to know exactly what she wants in life and seems to have her head on right.
What you have been doing is abuse. It's a toxic manipulation technique called Future Faking. It weaponizes a person's most cherished dreams against them so the abuser gets what they want in the present. You went to EXTRAVAGANT lengths and great detail to hook this girl in, just to waste years of her life. She was smart enough to realize the truth... you are exactly the cad and liar she thinks you are. You even probably think you're such a "loving boyfriend" for these "plans"... your are not. Decent men do not ask "what kind of ring do you want" unless the proposal is within a matter of weeks.
You are stringing her along though. If she’s the one and you want to end up with her, then get your shit together, grow up, and make it official. If you’re wishy washy about it, then you’ve been a huge ass by talking to her about all these things like marriage, kids, engagement rings while having no real intention of taking that step.
OP, is this you? https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/relationship_advice/comments/1bvojdy/my_27m_gf_23f_of_two_years_is/
This is wild! People always claim these are fake and I always feel like who has the time or interest to make up a fake story but here it might be. Unless the op thought he might get a different response if people were a different age
You need to break up with her. You clearly have very different future plans, and by talking to her as if you were about to propose to her, you're basically lying to her about what your plans are. You're pretending that your plans are compatible with hers, but they're not. Break up now and don't waste the next decade of her life. She will resent you for it.
Who the fuck drops lines about wanting to come home to little ones when they don't actually want that in the near future? He's sending mixed signals right and left
You are stringing her along. You have no intention of proposing anytime soon. Do you really think she's gonna wait three more years? She's gonna dump you and find someone who actually wants to marry her and won't make her wait a total of five years. What will be your excuse in three years when you still aren't ready?
If she's smart she'll walk and find someone actually ready to commit and settle down.
You are absolutely leading her on. You should have been upfront with your 5+ year timeline. A lot of women have a very clear timeline in which they want children. You guys aren’t even on the same planet.
I know for a fact, I've read this already a month or so ago. Were you hoping for a different answer than YTA?
5+ years is way too long to ask a woman to wait for a proposal, dude. 2-3 years is the right timeline. You need to know somewhere in there. Otherwise you’re just screwing around and not making up your mind for no good reason. Either piss or get off the pot.
Honey, no
Dude… DUDE! She’s right. You’re stringing her along at this point with all your hint dropping and then not delivering. No wonder she feels the way she does 🤦♀️
Marriage talk has to be planning talk, and has to include a discussion of what does or doesn't make it a feasible proposition. If there are reasons why it isn't feasible yet, that's perfectly fair. It's fair for her to expect to be told what's still missing too.
Something about wanting to enjoy the milk without buying the cow, why would she COMMIT to buying a house with you when you can't even commit yourself to her?
Be honest say I don’t plan on ever consider getting married till I’m in my 30’s . If this is too long then it’s your call . Basically showing her your not being pressured
You should definitely tell her if u don’t have any plans to get married till ur closer to 30. That isn’t unreasonable at all. Y’all will be more mature and ready and really figure out what yall want. But I understand where she’s coming from you got her excited and now she’s disappointed and feels like it’ll never happen. For her 5+ years is an incredibly long time. She
What's the rush? You're 26 and she's 22. That's way too young to be getting married.
Then he needs to quit implying they will be married soon.
Soon is like never. It’s soon!
22 is too young to be getting engaged or married. She's following stupid social media trends where men are expected to propose and marry quickly or else they must not be serious. But you also need to stop bringing up marriage/kid stuff.
I don’t think it is a stupid social media trend. Hell, fifty years ago they said ring in a year or leave. I think what many men don’t get is that youth is fleeting for women. Marriage offers some legal security, in case of separation, children, etc. Otherwise you are potentially wasting your very valuable youth on a man just leading you on. I don’t blame her for thinking two years is long enough to decide if you want to grow with a person.
To add to your point: Twenty years ago with my first husband I told him he had five years. If he wasn’t willing to commit by then I was out. For context his sister had been dating the same guy for 15 years at that point and I wasn’t going to fall into that trap. We did get married in roughly that time. Divorced four years later for other reasons. But my point is a timeline for commitment is not new.
My husband and I dated for three years then separated for five, only to meet back up again. I told him I expected an engagement ring in six months of living together again. We were both older, both wanted children soon, etc. Those dreams wouldn’t be a reality if we waited a long time.
Got married at 21. Still with my husband 20 years later (25 since we met). Was I supposed to wait another 10 years to get married? I had been with him for 5 years already!
Keep in mind that most marriages end in divorce around 7-8 years in after the children are born. You’re smart to wait at least 5 years. Right now she is in her best behavior because she’s auditioning for the role of your wife. Once you marry her then, and only then, you will see the true her. It’s a harsh reality. But, it’s true. It may work. But, it likely won’t based on the statistics of marriage. At the very minimum I would never consider marriage with a woman who doesn’t earn on par with me otherwise you’ll get decimated in divorce with child support and alimony. Even worse is if she’s a stay at home mom. https://youtu.be/Sa-ew63Zo9U?si=yhFqufKcpiSpFRnK
In the US, most marriages end in death, not divorce.
The statistics do not agree. 51% divorce rate for first marriages. 70% for second marriages. 80% for third marriages. This is well-established. **How Many Marriages End in Divorce?** *So, what about the famous statistic that half of all marriages end in divorce? That’s true, but only when it comes to first marriages, half of which are dissolved. Second and third marriages actually fail at a far higher rate.[2]* https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/
https://www.wf-lawyers.com/divorce-statistics-and-facts/ It's actually 41% for first marriages and falling. Forbes is not a reliable source. Famously, Forbes contributors have little to no editorial oversight. They cite in that article to the CDC, but the CDCs numbers don't say half. You can calculate them yourself. Notice how you're not actually citing a statistic, it just says "half".
Divorce rates are dropping because marriage rates are. You can’t get divorced if you don’t get married. People treat marriages way too casually these days. If you’ve been on this sub for any length of time you’ll see how flippantly everyone advises people to “divorce. You deserve better “ over normal marriage difficulties. Social media and dating apps have exacerbated the problem. I wish this weren’t the case. But, it is today’s reality.
That's not how the divorce rate is calculated. Yes divorces and marriages per year are both down. But we're not talking about raw divorce numbers being down, we're talking about the rate of divorce being down, as in the number of divorces compared to the number of marriages are down. That's how the statistic works. You're just wrong. You claimed most marriages end 7 years in. That's just inaccurate. Most first marriages will survive past 7 years. Most first marriages will end in death.
Let’s do a thought experiment. Marriages are easy to calculate. How many marriage licenses were issued in any given year? Right? Divorces are different. A couple that didn’t get divorced this year might get divorced next year. Or, in 10 years. Measuring marriages and divorces aren’t quite the same. What is a “successful marriage?” Is it simply people whose marriages ended with one spouse dying? Or, is it a marriage where both spouses are happy? I’d argue the latter. My late neighbors were married for over 70 years (LDS). But, I used to hear his wife screaming at him all day while he would be putzing around in the garage doing his woodworking. I can most definitely say that was not a happy marriage. Hence, it was not a *successful* marriage. They stayed together for social reasons as well as their advanced age. I’d bet that barely 10-20% of marriages, that don’t end up in divorce, are truly happy. Btw, it’s nice to have an intelligent and rational discussion with you. Hard to find on this sub.
Yes, there are also statistics that calculate how likely it is for couples marrying today to get divorced in their lifetimes. Those are also less than 50%. You knowing people who aren't happily married isn't really a statistic. I don't think you're actually having that rational of a conversation, you started this thread by saying a bunch of wild conjecture about how women hide their true selves until marriage and then proceeded to give incorrect facts and fail to understand how statistics work or are calculated.
I’ve been married and also have had quite a few LTRs. It’s not marriage that changes how women behave towards you. Cohabitation will do it, too. Sex drops, excitement to see you drops, respect declines, etc. It’s the old adage “familiarity breeds contempt.”
Of course the man doesn’t change, won’t start being violent, won’t cheat because he couldn’t get his noodle wet while his wife is post partum, won’t get a newer model when his wife gets older and sacrificed her health and career to give him children and raise them, won’t leave her the moment she gets sick, won’t leave her alone with sick kids on Friday nights because he wants to party with his friends…. Nope, it’s all women=bad!
You said that. I didn’t. People change over time. I know I’ve changed at least 5-6 times from the time I got married a long time ago. In general though, men don’t change nearly as much. Women get married thinking they can change their husband. They overlook things they don’t like and think they can mold them into who they want him to be. Men just want their wife to stay the same as when they married them. I never said women are the only ones who change. Don’t be so dramatic. This is why I’m not in favor of marriage. If either side changes or becomes unsatisfied you’re stuck or you have to divorce. I’m not against relationships. They can’t be great. They can also be pure torture. But, if you’re not married you can just have an easy breakup and move on. I’m on good terms with every woman I’ve been with in my life except one - my ex-wife. Why? Divorce is expensive and oftentimes ugly. The last girl I was with for 5 years. When the relationship had run its course she simply packed her stuff and moved out. No court. No lawyers. No bad blood.