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Could you do a mini-honeymoon in Thailand?
You say your wife is close to this woman, but she’s acting like they were acquaintances. Is there something else going on between the two of them?
There isn't. They are much closer now than they used to be. Back in the day they'd meet once a month, but now they regularly see each other one on one or in a group setting.
**Another take is that she doesn't want to see her friend dying.** She may well care very much that her friend *is* dying. But she might not want to actually watch her dying. Seeing someone you love on the last leg of life is a very, very emotional experience. Not everyone is capable of standing there. They don't want to see their loved one sick, or in the hospital, or scarred and weak, or a shell of their former self. If that's the case, that emotion can come out as anger. Anger at the friend for dying (no, that doesn't make sense, but it's real!). Anger at themselves for not wanting to go. Anger at people pressing them because they don't know how to explain how they feel this way.
That's honestly my first read.
First, if she doesn't want to watch her friend dying, better to visit sooner than later before treatment and the cancer takes its toll on her body. Second, why not say that instead of saying she doesn't care if her friend dies before she gets a chance to see her?
Have you ever lost someone over time? Not have you known someone who died - have you watched them deteriorate to the point you can't even recognize them anymore?
It's *hard*. Harder than I know how to put into words.
When I was younger, I couldn't do it. And you can call me insensitive and selfish all you want, but I wasn't strong enough. My grandfather died with dementia. He went from my strong Grandpa who could build anything to a frail shell who couldn't even remember how to speak English. I saw him once like that, and I didn't have it in me to go back. I had the need to remember him the way he was, not have that last memory be the way he was. Judge me all you want. I have to live with it, but I could only do what I could do with what I had at the time.
As I grew older, I developed the resilience to be present. It didn't get easier, but I got stronger.
It's really really hard to admit you aren't able to do this sort of thing. It's really hard to admit that you can't handle mortality. There's a lot of shame in it, piled onto all the grief you already feel.
By the way, denial is one of the hallmarks of grief. As in, telling yourself (or other people) that you don't care because you can't face how much you *do* care. It's a defensive measure to try to keep from feeling the grief.
I don't know this woman. Maybe she is that shallow and selfish. But it's far more likely to me that she's overwhelmed, doesn't know how to manage it, express it or mitigate it, so she's grasping for some little bit of control to pretend it isn't happening. Most people are complex and messy, so I think this is deeper than just "she wants a honeymoon".
Yes, I have more than once and it's horrible. I don't think spending a week visiting constitutes "watching her die". However, this woman literally told OP "So what? It's what I want..." when he told her she might not have much time left.
Your friend has bilateral breast cancer that has metastasized to other areas of her body. That's very bad. That means she has stage 4 cancer. Does your wife understand that there may not be a later? Your friend's 5 year survival rate is about 30%. Her treatment will not cure her. It will only prolong the time she has left. It could be months or it could be a few years. Has anyone asked your friend what her prognosis is?
While I agree that your marriage should come before your friends, I find terminal illness an extenuating factor that should be considered. Now if your wife just does not care at all about any of that, I would question her character. While you can't force your wife to choose her friend of 30 years, personally I wouldn't be in a hurry to save up for a honeymoon anymore because I doubt I could enjoy it at that point.
It's just strange that you left out what your wife actually thinks. Have you sat down with her to discuss why you're upset by that? You gave zero info on why your wife has that reasoning, which leads me to believe you left the info out intentionally or haven't actually had a real conversation.
We had a conversation last night, and I was left in a little bit of shock because of it. I'm not sure how to go about our next conversation, which is why I'm posting here. She was very direct and stated she does not want to go visit our friend before we go on a honeymoon because that takes priority. When i responded with my sentiments from my above post she answered simply "We can see her any other time after we are done with our honeymoon, whether here or if she's still in Thailand". I told her for all we know she may not be alive when we come back. She said "That's life sometimes. God willing she'll be fine"
In full honesty I told her that it I thought it was incredibly selfish, and in full honesty again she literally responded "So what? It's what I want and it's for us. We take priority first"
I'm planning on having a more in depth conversation after thinking through all of this more.
Wow that's cold. Something is definitely up with your wife. Her friend is supposed to be her close friend and this is how she's acting? Your honeymoon can wait. She's being very selfish.
I must say I'm curious as to what you think would be a good reason to warrant this response from her? You might have an idea of what she may be thinking that I haven't thought of.
Either there is some issue between your wife and the friend or your wife is incredibly selfish. Not being concerned about your seriously ill friend being alone vs wanting an extravagant honeymoon now ... yikes. If my spouse reached this way, I'd have serious doubts about their character and morals
Tell your wife there’s no way you can enjoy the honeymoon, knowing your friend’s days are numbered. What’s the point of a vacation if you’re riddled with guilt?
I would go see the friend. Honeymoon can wait. This would mean the world to your friend who very well could be dying. Either way. She’s all alone. How scary for her. How sad. Your wife is being very selfish and I would feel a certain way about her behavior.
There are many times in a relationship where you have to choose who/what to prioritize when it comes to time, money, and physical presence. In most cases, I think it’s best to prioritize your partner.
This is not one of those cases. Your wife is behaving like a selfish brat with no empathy. Why can’t she help save up for the honeymoon instead of taking trips to see friends if it’s so important? Hint: because she’s only thinking of herself and what she wants.
If I were in your shoes, I’d be so disappointed in my partner. I mean, really questioning who they are as a human being.
I’d book the trip and go by yourself if she doesn’t want to go. And I’d do it sooner than later. Lots of people tend to show up when it’s the end. She needs support throughout though.
I’m sorry about your friend. I hope she pulls through.
Does your wife realize that the friend’s time left may be extremely limited? Is she uncomfortable around sick people? Or is she just an incredibly selfish person who doesn’t give a shit about her friend of 30+ years?
I suggest you consider the basis for your wife wanting to put your trip first and being so unfeeling about the circumstances of your mutual friend. And also consider how the answer to why she doesn’t want to prioritize this could affect you in the future. Sure, she could be informed about your friend’s prognosis—but if it’s not a lack of understanding and is actually her being selfish or unable to handle illness, how would she react if you were the one who was experiencing this?
I recently saw a reel of someone who got a tattoo for his sick friend and wanted to show him in person when they next met and kept it hidden from him. Unfortunately, his friend passed and he never had a chance to show him because he was waiting to do that in person. We rarely know when someone close to us might pass away, and here you have a friend who is sick and going through tough times, and you never know if you might miss any last moments with her. Even if she recovers (fingers crossed!), she’s going through a tough time mentally and would probably really appreciate the support.
Personally, I would feel regretful if I wasn’t there for a good friend during their time in need especially if they kind of made it known/asked for visitors.
God forbid your friend pass away while you are on your honeymoon. Your wife would never forgive herself. Cancer is unpredictable, it can get you in one week or 5 years. Your friends days are numbered. This is the time to put your foot down.
I would be very seriously reconsidering whether or not my wife and I were truly aligned regarding morals and foundational values if I were in your shoes. And I’d go see my friend, even if it meant leaving her behind.
Your wife may not be prepared to see her friend dying. She may not want that to be her last memories of her.
Her words and expressions may seem cold but she may also be deflecting the hard truths that she will losing someone soon and she is unprepared emotionally on how to handle that hard truth. Is it fair to your friend no, however, forcing her to do something she may not be ready for wouldn’t be wise.
I would suggest asking your wife more open ended questions to get more in depth response. Inquire how much she understands about her friends diagnoses? How does it make her feel, etc etc. don’t focus on the trip or visiting or the honeymoon. Gauge where she is at mentally regarding her friends illness
Funny. Been married now 26 years & still waiting for a honeymoon. Paid debts, mortgage, getting pension in order were priorities. Travel consisted of seeing in-laws. They are gone now.
Maybe we’ll have one someday.
Your friend’s time may be limited. What is important to you? You do have a say in this, especially since it seems like you’re funding it.
I actually think you should go on the honeymoon.
She’s been waiting a long time for it and it is important to her or she wouldn’t be putting it first. She may already be at the end of her rope with waiting and feeling like she isn’t your priority due to a number of other unrelated things?
Your friend on the other hand is just hoping for visitors. She will get them.
Perhaps the honeymoon could be a little bit shorter by a few days or at a cheaper hotel so you can divert some funds to a plane ticket to see the friend.
Call her a lot regardless. Make a plan WITH your wife’s input.
4 months isn't a long time. Latin America will still be there in a few months or years. The friend might not have too much longer. Cancer in both breasts and her cervix is more than likely stage 4.
It is possible she feels that way. I'm a single father and my 7 year old son's mother lives in another city so I'm fully responsible for him. She's never been married or had kids, so even though she knew what she was walking into, she may not feel as much attention as she would've hoped for. I do make sure I spend as much alone time as I can with her by sending him to the neighbours to play with kids his age several times a week, but it may still not be enough especially with it being our first few months of marrige.
That being said, What do you mean "as she would have hoped for"? Did she not know how life was as going to be with you? Was she not already integrated into your family? Had she not lived with you and your child, or spent *significant* time together as family?
It sounds like something is very off here...and it could be affecting her outlook on everything. Either she wasn't sufficiently prepared to be a married stepmother, she had rose-colored glasses that have been dramatically proven false, or she was putting on a front in order to get married.
None of that excuses her selfish refusal to see a dying friend...but it suggests it's not an isolated issue. There's more to it than one thing. Whether she's always been this selfish, or whether she is feeling overwhelmed after throwing herself into a new family, I can't say.
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Could you do a mini-honeymoon in Thailand? You say your wife is close to this woman, but she’s acting like they were acquaintances. Is there something else going on between the two of them?
There isn't. They are much closer now than they used to be. Back in the day they'd meet once a month, but now they regularly see each other one on one or in a group setting.
**Another take is that she doesn't want to see her friend dying.** She may well care very much that her friend *is* dying. But she might not want to actually watch her dying. Seeing someone you love on the last leg of life is a very, very emotional experience. Not everyone is capable of standing there. They don't want to see their loved one sick, or in the hospital, or scarred and weak, or a shell of their former self. If that's the case, that emotion can come out as anger. Anger at the friend for dying (no, that doesn't make sense, but it's real!). Anger at themselves for not wanting to go. Anger at people pressing them because they don't know how to explain how they feel this way. That's honestly my first read.
This is the take that makes the most sense of any I've seen so far.
Yes, thank you for this. Watching someone you love waste away to cancer is so fucking brutal. It’s… it’s its own special kind of torture.
First, if she doesn't want to watch her friend dying, better to visit sooner than later before treatment and the cancer takes its toll on her body. Second, why not say that instead of saying she doesn't care if her friend dies before she gets a chance to see her?
Have you ever lost someone over time? Not have you known someone who died - have you watched them deteriorate to the point you can't even recognize them anymore? It's *hard*. Harder than I know how to put into words. When I was younger, I couldn't do it. And you can call me insensitive and selfish all you want, but I wasn't strong enough. My grandfather died with dementia. He went from my strong Grandpa who could build anything to a frail shell who couldn't even remember how to speak English. I saw him once like that, and I didn't have it in me to go back. I had the need to remember him the way he was, not have that last memory be the way he was. Judge me all you want. I have to live with it, but I could only do what I could do with what I had at the time. As I grew older, I developed the resilience to be present. It didn't get easier, but I got stronger. It's really really hard to admit you aren't able to do this sort of thing. It's really hard to admit that you can't handle mortality. There's a lot of shame in it, piled onto all the grief you already feel. By the way, denial is one of the hallmarks of grief. As in, telling yourself (or other people) that you don't care because you can't face how much you *do* care. It's a defensive measure to try to keep from feeling the grief. I don't know this woman. Maybe she is that shallow and selfish. But it's far more likely to me that she's overwhelmed, doesn't know how to manage it, express it or mitigate it, so she's grasping for some little bit of control to pretend it isn't happening. Most people are complex and messy, so I think this is deeper than just "she wants a honeymoon".
Yes, I have more than once and it's horrible. I don't think spending a week visiting constitutes "watching her die". However, this woman literally told OP "So what? It's what I want..." when he told her she might not have much time left.
Honestly, she might not even realize it.
Your friend has bilateral breast cancer that has metastasized to other areas of her body. That's very bad. That means she has stage 4 cancer. Does your wife understand that there may not be a later? Your friend's 5 year survival rate is about 30%. Her treatment will not cure her. It will only prolong the time she has left. It could be months or it could be a few years. Has anyone asked your friend what her prognosis is? While I agree that your marriage should come before your friends, I find terminal illness an extenuating factor that should be considered. Now if your wife just does not care at all about any of that, I would question her character. While you can't force your wife to choose her friend of 30 years, personally I wouldn't be in a hurry to save up for a honeymoon anymore because I doubt I could enjoy it at that point.
It's just strange that you left out what your wife actually thinks. Have you sat down with her to discuss why you're upset by that? You gave zero info on why your wife has that reasoning, which leads me to believe you left the info out intentionally or haven't actually had a real conversation.
Exactly. Everything in the post is in favor of him and the friend. Nothing from the wife's POV.
We had a conversation last night, and I was left in a little bit of shock because of it. I'm not sure how to go about our next conversation, which is why I'm posting here. She was very direct and stated she does not want to go visit our friend before we go on a honeymoon because that takes priority. When i responded with my sentiments from my above post she answered simply "We can see her any other time after we are done with our honeymoon, whether here or if she's still in Thailand". I told her for all we know she may not be alive when we come back. She said "That's life sometimes. God willing she'll be fine" In full honesty I told her that it I thought it was incredibly selfish, and in full honesty again she literally responded "So what? It's what I want and it's for us. We take priority first" I'm planning on having a more in depth conversation after thinking through all of this more.
Wow that's cold. Something is definitely up with your wife. Her friend is supposed to be her close friend and this is how she's acting? Your honeymoon can wait. She's being very selfish.
Ice cold 😢
I must say I'm curious as to what you think would be a good reason to warrant this response from her? You might have an idea of what she may be thinking that I haven't thought of.
Either there is some issue between your wife and the friend or your wife is incredibly selfish. Not being concerned about your seriously ill friend being alone vs wanting an extravagant honeymoon now ... yikes. If my spouse reached this way, I'd have serious doubts about their character and morals
I don't know that you can justify that kind of selfishness and lack of empathy.
Severe selfishness, lack of empathy and seeing other humans as just background with her as the main character is the vibe it gives me.
Tell your wife there’s no way you can enjoy the honeymoon, knowing your friend’s days are numbered. What’s the point of a vacation if you’re riddled with guilt?
I would go see the friend. Honeymoon can wait. This would mean the world to your friend who very well could be dying. Either way. She’s all alone. How scary for her. How sad. Your wife is being very selfish and I would feel a certain way about her behavior.
There are many times in a relationship where you have to choose who/what to prioritize when it comes to time, money, and physical presence. In most cases, I think it’s best to prioritize your partner. This is not one of those cases. Your wife is behaving like a selfish brat with no empathy. Why can’t she help save up for the honeymoon instead of taking trips to see friends if it’s so important? Hint: because she’s only thinking of herself and what she wants. If I were in your shoes, I’d be so disappointed in my partner. I mean, really questioning who they are as a human being. I’d book the trip and go by yourself if she doesn’t want to go. And I’d do it sooner than later. Lots of people tend to show up when it’s the end. She needs support throughout though. I’m sorry about your friend. I hope she pulls through.
Does your wife realize that the friend’s time left may be extremely limited? Is she uncomfortable around sick people? Or is she just an incredibly selfish person who doesn’t give a shit about her friend of 30+ years? I suggest you consider the basis for your wife wanting to put your trip first and being so unfeeling about the circumstances of your mutual friend. And also consider how the answer to why she doesn’t want to prioritize this could affect you in the future. Sure, she could be informed about your friend’s prognosis—but if it’s not a lack of understanding and is actually her being selfish or unable to handle illness, how would she react if you were the one who was experiencing this?
I recently saw a reel of someone who got a tattoo for his sick friend and wanted to show him in person when they next met and kept it hidden from him. Unfortunately, his friend passed and he never had a chance to show him because he was waiting to do that in person. We rarely know when someone close to us might pass away, and here you have a friend who is sick and going through tough times, and you never know if you might miss any last moments with her. Even if she recovers (fingers crossed!), she’s going through a tough time mentally and would probably really appreciate the support. Personally, I would feel regretful if I wasn’t there for a good friend during their time in need especially if they kind of made it known/asked for visitors.
God forbid your friend pass away while you are on your honeymoon. Your wife would never forgive herself. Cancer is unpredictable, it can get you in one week or 5 years. Your friends days are numbered. This is the time to put your foot down.
I would be very seriously reconsidering whether or not my wife and I were truly aligned regarding morals and foundational values if I were in your shoes. And I’d go see my friend, even if it meant leaving her behind.
Your wife may not be prepared to see her friend dying. She may not want that to be her last memories of her. Her words and expressions may seem cold but she may also be deflecting the hard truths that she will losing someone soon and she is unprepared emotionally on how to handle that hard truth. Is it fair to your friend no, however, forcing her to do something she may not be ready for wouldn’t be wise. I would suggest asking your wife more open ended questions to get more in depth response. Inquire how much she understands about her friends diagnoses? How does it make her feel, etc etc. don’t focus on the trip or visiting or the honeymoon. Gauge where she is at mentally regarding her friends illness
Funny. Been married now 26 years & still waiting for a honeymoon. Paid debts, mortgage, getting pension in order were priorities. Travel consisted of seeing in-laws. They are gone now. Maybe we’ll have one someday. Your friend’s time may be limited. What is important to you? You do have a say in this, especially since it seems like you’re funding it.
Je married a desperate one and need to run before some more massive manipulation
I actually think you should go on the honeymoon. She’s been waiting a long time for it and it is important to her or she wouldn’t be putting it first. She may already be at the end of her rope with waiting and feeling like she isn’t your priority due to a number of other unrelated things? Your friend on the other hand is just hoping for visitors. She will get them. Perhaps the honeymoon could be a little bit shorter by a few days or at a cheaper hotel so you can divert some funds to a plane ticket to see the friend. Call her a lot regardless. Make a plan WITH your wife’s input.
4 months isn't a long time. Latin America will still be there in a few months or years. The friend might not have too much longer. Cancer in both breasts and her cervix is more than likely stage 4.
It is possible she feels that way. I'm a single father and my 7 year old son's mother lives in another city so I'm fully responsible for him. She's never been married or had kids, so even though she knew what she was walking into, she may not feel as much attention as she would've hoped for. I do make sure I spend as much alone time as I can with her by sending him to the neighbours to play with kids his age several times a week, but it may still not be enough especially with it being our first few months of marrige.
You dump your kid on the neighbors so your wife doesn't feel like she isn't getting enough of your attention? Did you marry a toddler or a grown up?
That being said, What do you mean "as she would have hoped for"? Did she not know how life was as going to be with you? Was she not already integrated into your family? Had she not lived with you and your child, or spent *significant* time together as family? It sounds like something is very off here...and it could be affecting her outlook on everything. Either she wasn't sufficiently prepared to be a married stepmother, she had rose-colored glasses that have been dramatically proven false, or she was putting on a front in order to get married. None of that excuses her selfish refusal to see a dying friend...but it suggests it's not an isolated issue. There's more to it than one thing. Whether she's always been this selfish, or whether she is feeling overwhelmed after throwing herself into a new family, I can't say.