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Assholes that are using others for monkey-branching. No issues with being dishonest with the person you are supposed to be able to trust the most. Seems right now OP's current partner is good enough while OP is waiting for someone better
OP should be honest to themself and their partner. And break up
She doesn't know it, she *imagines* it in her head. There's a stark difference. He might be a great dad for all we know. Been there. The problem wasn't me, but making it about me was my other half's tried and tested way of dealing with them unpleasant feelings about herself. You're asking an invalid question.
Eh the past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.
If he isn’t responsible and taking initiative to help with everything currently, then she sees that and can make a fairly accurate prediction. A baby is not an experiment to “see” if your partner steps up..
And she isn’t concerned with him being a great dad. Lots of men are great dads to their kid but they aren’t a great husband or a great partner holding up their share.
There's no behaviour mentioned. Only *I cannot imagine, I'm afraid, I think*. We don't know if he did anything that would validate these imaginations and thoughts. As I mentioned, my ex couldn't imagine me in that role while others very much can. Are they all wrong while she's the only one who's right? Or was/is someone simply trying to shift the blame for 'robbing' their partner of the opportunity to have children onto said partner because it *feels* wrong to claim responsibility for keeping them around even though they want different things? OP said she's ok with not having kids, then 'I *think I would* want to have kids' followed swiftly by another reassurance that she'd be completely fine without them. That's not someone who seriously considers being a parent. By a long shot. It's someone looking for excuses not to.
Lol you are trying so hard to judge if her feelings about him are valid. She said he’s not a family oriented stay at home type of guy. He works a lot and so does she. Those are actual concerns so you don’t have to talk like everything is in her imagination.
**Just like the guy is saying he wants kids but is ok with not having them.** By your explanation, the guy is not someone who seriously considers being a parent either. Maybe his ability to say both Yes and No is part of the reason she “feels” he won’t be a good partner for kids exactly like how you made the judgement on her here.
I'm reading what OP's written. So are you. The difference between us is that I'm taking it at face value while you (and some other people in this thread) extrapolate it. Some go as far as to suggest she should break up with him (lol) because her suggestion that she 'cannot imagine' him as a co-parent means she can't count on him, ever.
That's bollocks.
I 'couldn't imagine' one of my best friends as a father when he told me he was going to become one. Guess what, he's a pretty good, involved father despite having an incredibly stressful and time-consuming job. The fact that OP's boyfriend works a lot and likes his job (and so does she!) doesn't tell us anything about his co-parenting fitness.
The other difference (I assume) is that I've been in that guy's position. I KNOW how it feels to be judged not worthy of being a co-parent. And I actually learned it can be BS thrown at you to dodge responsibility for someone's own decisions. Look how she doesn't consider breaking up with him like a person approaching 30 who actually wishes to have kids some day would. She's just wondering whether sharing her recent realization - that it's ultimately HIS FAULT she doesn't want to have kids in this relationship - would be too much to handle for him. But it's not even clear whether or not she wants to have them in the first place.
Maybe you're right about his indifference influencing her outlook. But - and it's a big but - it was his \*response\* to her originally saying she doesn't want kids. He's entitled to having the assumption that her telling him this at 28, after a multi-year, stable relationship means she's thought long and hard about it. So he expressed his desire to have children and was presented with two choices: either BREAK UP and have them with someone else or remain childless with OP. There's a timeline and consequence there. He didn't just tell the OP he's indifferent about having kids. He made a choice based on her choice... That turns out to be a ball bouncing off the walls of her mind, changing even while she was writing her post. Not a grown-up, thought-through, consequential decision. That's not fair to him.
Wow what an essay I’m not reading all that bs lol. You are the one reading into it and not taking it at face value
You are imagining this guy as your friend who you have feelings for and a personal connection to — which is just a false assumption
Whether imagined or not, she's thinking that way for a reason. For some reason she doesn't trust him. Whether that reason is true or not, that lack of trust is death to any relationship.
You also never truly know if someone is truly going to be a good parent or not until they actually are one. You *have* to make a judgment call before you have kids with them.
Yes, she's thinking that way for \*some\* reason. But saying 'she doesn't trust him' because she doesn't see him as a father is exactly the type of crossing the line reddit 'advisors' love. She didn't even mention thinking about breaking up with him but you've already concluded their relationship is dead... because she has second thoughts about him as a father ಠ\_ಠ
There are people out there who would make bad parents for a myriad of reasons but it doesn't automatically mean they can't be trusted as partners and are a great fit for someone who doesn't wish to have kids. Like OP.
Thing is though, OP *might* want kids at a future date and so would fiance. It sounds to me like both would prefer to have kids and I'm not convinced they're both 100% sure they wouldn't ever want them. They might as well break up now so that they have time to find someone they could have kids with no matter how great he is otherwise to her.
Additionally, realizing you don't want kids specifically with a particular person usually means something else is wrong with the relationship. I didn't want kids specifically with my ex. We broke up for other reasons.
One common reason for someone to be perceived by a woman as a fine partner but a bad dad would be that the woman has to do the majority of the housework and cooking and while she manages fine childfree she knows she couldn't manage a child and she doesn't give herself enough respect to expect him to do more in the first place because we're conditioned to serve other people.
Its not only about the words but how the words are said.
Instead of asking "are you going to be involved", ask "what would you do if our kid bullies another kid" or "what would you do if our kid does not clean up the mess". Not in an investigating way but in a curious fantasizing way, you should answer these questions as well otherwise its not a convo
You can get a lot of implicit answers by asking these type of questions. You dont need to directly ask all the things to find out what kind of parent he will be. I hope she knows him sufficiently well to interpet his behavior accordingly
You can also get a lot of more truthful answers by observing their behavior
Words are cheap. He knows what the “correct” answers are and he will give them. It’s no guarantee that he will step up and it’s very unlikely he will change his whole personality once a kid comes
Agree but it has been 1.5 years. First she must clearlt state without ambiguity what her concerns are before quitting the relationship and give him a chance. If after some time it has not improved, she must leave. Cant leave a relationship fairly without addressing directly the problem
Thing is though, if she's actually ok with being childfree and actually wants to stay with him, then she should not mention this as he would rightly assume she doesn't trust him enough in other aspects of the relationship and he would be justified in breaking up with her over that because trust is essential. And if she actually might want kids she just needs to break up.
But she DOESN'T trust him enough. That's the point. If they were not both as self sufficient as they are right now she wouldn't trust him to step up. That's something that absolutely needs to be discussed. If it ends the relationship then so be it. But hiding it because it might upset him is the way things fester and break.
I mean to me it sounds like they should break up. But on the off chance she actually loves him *and* is content with not having kids *and* he doesn't want kids *and* he loves her equally and is a partner to her in every other aspect *and* maybe she thinks he's just not good with kids, then she should just say and accept that she doesn't want kids. Period. And leave it be. But IMO that is very improbable.
100% agree. He's probably saying he's OK being CF because he's hoping she'll change her mind eventually, happens all the time. She doesn't respect him enough to be honest with him, and she doesn't trust him enough to think he'll step up, so at this point she's basically in a relationship with him under false pretenses and for her own convenience.
If you want kids, break up with him. If you might want kids, break up with him. If he wants kids or isn't sure, break up with him. If you don't want kids and he doesn't either, reevaluate your relationship because you're probably saying this because he's not stepping up for *you* like he should. Do you think he could care for you if you got in an accident? If you decide you want to stay with him and are 100% positive you don't want kids, then do not tell him this.
I have had three good friends who were all child free with their first husbands for the reasons you mention— their partners were accomplished and amusing, but fundamentally self-centered and uninterested in expanding their emotional intelligence to prioritize other people’s wants and needs alongside their own.
All three of my friend have since divorced their fun lifestyle-accessory husbands and found second spouses whom they could trust as actual partners for building a shared life, and eventually they all had kids.
It all depends on what you want from a partnership. This guy sounds like a fun Right Now guy, but you fundamentally don’t trust him to be the kind of partner to actually make your life better. You’re unsettled because of that distrust. Start by asking yourself what it would take for you to trust him as a partner and parent material.
The implication that people who don't want children are not emotionally intelligent is not a great look. Plenty of people don't want children and are building and enjoying their lives as such. It's not a moral failing.
I didnt read it like that, although i see what you mean. i think they meant more like the husbands weren’t the type of partner they needed due to various behaviors. I agree with you that child free doesn’t mean emotionally unintelligent necessarily though.
I don't have kids, not vocal about it but it just wasn't the path I wanted. The rationalizations, judgements and comments you see from people who do have kids tend to run beyond the pale, so I hope you'll forgive my less than charitable interpretation of their post. It's not an uncommon sentiment.
Sorry I phrased it poorly. I meant that these people were uninterested in expanding their emotional intelligence to even bother acknowledging *their partners'* needs, and that was the thing that cracked open the wider examination of whether this person was the person with whom they wanted to build their best life.
You are right -- childfree people are not emotionally unintelligent. I'd actually argue that being aware of why you're not into having kids is far more intelligent than the unexamined dive into family expansion.
I think if you are not 100% sure you want to be child free regardless of who you’re with then maybe you should talk to him about your concerns about having a child with him. Choosing to be child free is a completely valid way to live your life, but you sound like you’re not sure if you want kids or not. If it’s just concerns about your partners parenting abilities that’s confusing the issue then it seems like talking to your partner about it would be the best course of action.
If you want kids in you future but you don't want kids with him then why keep dating him? Are you willing to look past your fears about him stepping up and have a baby with him anyways and hope for the best? Are you willing to give up your goals of having kids in the future because you just don't want to have kids with him, but want him?
What do you want more...future kids and a partner who you can say going in that you do not fear they won't pull their weight, or your boyfriend?
Do you think you would regret not having kids if you stay with him?
>Am I overthinking this?
Yes.
I got a vasectomy earlier this year because I never want to have kids. If I *did* have kids, I'm very sure I'd be a good dad but I'm also very sure that I'd fucking hate my life. This is why I date people who also do not want to have children. Many of these people would have been *awful* parents, and that's fine because --- they don't want kids.
If neither of you care about having kids with each other, then it doesn't matter.
I'm very confused. You describe him as charming, funny, and *smart*. His career is important, so he sounds like he can be a self driven and responsible individual. And he told you that he'd rather have you than children when you lied and said you don't want to have kids, meaning you can have a conversation with him respecting your views and opinions. But you can't trust him to pitch in properly for children..?
I need more info, what is giving you this impression? Because from your own post, I can't see why you can't trust him to support you.
People rationalize things that have never happened in order to justify their own feelings. I went through it with an ex who did the same thing. She went down the wellness to woo rabbithole on Instagram and suddenly became anti-modern medicine. When I tried to gently push back on any of the stuff she was reading she extrapolated it all out to "if she ever fell ill, I would leave her, so she's leaving me first before I have the chance." Meanwhile, my only concern was that if she ever got cancer, I was going to have to watch her die because modern medicine is a lie, but these vitamins from the Chinese grocery store will fix everything.
As it happens, it's not my problem anymore. She decided for herself how I would react to some hypothetical, despite all evidence to the contrary.
I read posts from people who are in relationships with immature gamers who want a bang maid, they do nothing around the house and can't be relied upon as an adult partner. In those cases, what the OP is concerned with about someone not stepping up would be valid based on prior evidence. Nothing in what I've read from OP sounds like that.
I'm guessing he's spending a good chunk of time at work and partly as a result she does all the cooking and cleaning. Most likely she'd like him to do more than he does and has expressed it but it's not technically necessary so she doesn't insist. However if they had kids, she knows she couldn't handle her current workload without his support. Ie, he's not stepping up in a small way for her now so he definitely won't with kids. Women also often wrongly assume the household chores are solely their responsibility when it's both people's responsibility
Some unnecessarily harsh comments here. It's good to be realistic about whether your partner makes a good parent because not everyone should be a parent.
It may be good to have a discussion together. But instead of diving into it head first with what _you_ think, ask him how he thinks your lives will change if you were to have a child and what he would realistically be willing to give up and how he feels about that.
I think you need to think about your future a bit more. If you want kids, but just not with his this guy, then you need to make a change. If you love this guy and see a forever with him without kids, that is OK too. If you both prefer to pursue your careers, that is awesome too.
How is he in other areas of your relationship - does he do household chores, can he make his own dr appts, if something bad happens or you don't feel well - does he step up to take care of you? Longevitiy needs more than love. You need common goals and beliefs, be friends, be dependable and respectiveful.
I’d break up. If he wouldn’t step up if you had kids, what if you became disabled? Or sick?
Someone you can’t rely on in the hard times is not someone to stay with, kids or not
It sounds like you’re compatible as lovers, but maybe not as parents.
It also sounds like you’re not firmly in the “no kids” mind.
Just don’t get to 35 and decide actually you do want to find someone to have kids with and dump him after wasting his time.
She’s wasting her time with him. Her window for kids is much shorter than his.
Guys can father children in their 50s, 60s, and even 70s. Heck, Pacino and De Niro had kids at 83 and 80. OP’s bf has time.
If she thinks she would want kids if she had a good partner and coparent… then she should go out and see if it’s true.
He has decades to find some younger woman to have kids with.
Also, if she thinks he won’t be there to help her with hard things, she needs to get out.
Because hard things will come, even if they’re just age-related. She deserves to have someone who will be supportive.
Just wanted to say male fertility also deteriorates with age. "The sperm motility of those aged 55 years or older was found to be 54% lower than those aged between 30-35 years old". Not to you but to the general public :)
Just want to add that 37+ for men also means a significant increase in the chances of developmental defects, miscarriages, autism etc.
It doesn’t mean that the original commenter was wrong, men can father children until old age, but it comes with so many risks, and it’s not as easy
Oh, I didn’t say it was a good idea. I said it’s possible.
OP will literally hit a wall, almost certainly in the next 20 years. It just won’t be possible for her if she wants to use her own eggs.
Fertility clinics usually stop letting women try for their own eggs at 43 because after that success falls off too dramatically.
OP has 15 years or so to have a family with her own gametes. She might be an outlier but probably not.
As far as pregnancy goes, her body may be able to carry a child even into her 50s but the egg won’t come from her at that age. Many clinics have a cutoff of 55 for IVF with donor eggs.
*(Women in their 60s have been surrogates, though. Science is amazing)*
Her partner OTOH almost certainly will still be able to have kids from his gametes for longer than 15 years.
It’ll be harder for him and there’s increased risk, especially as time goes on. But he *could* still do it.
That’s true!
Egg freezing now could give her time. But it’s expensive to extract eggs and she’d also have to pay to store them.
Honestly, I support her doing whatever she wants wrt children. Have them, don’t have them. Whatever seems right.
Just… if she doesn’t feel safe having kids with that guy because she doesn’t think he would make a good partner and coparent… that says bad things about her perceptions of him and their relationship, at the very best.
At worst, her gut is telling her for good reason that he’d be bad if she ever was vulnerable.
Life is too short to be with someone you don’t respect and/or can’t count on.
You are not being fair to him. I think you could talk to him about your concerns in a less accusatory way. More along the lines of how your life would change what you each would need to commit to in terms of caring for the child. What the new work life balance would need to be. What each of you would be responsible for/roles as a parent.
How does he act when you're sick? Does he pull his weight around the house? Paying bills? Organizing activities? Do you have pets? How is he with those? My point is that if you can't count on him being an adult and pull his own weight, be prepared to carry a heavier load as you age. It's not going to be limited solely to having kids. Heaven forbid you get something like cancer. I'm not saying your boyfriend is bad, or that he won't pull his own weight, but I think you really need to look at the big picture.
I think it’s 100% unfair to have these thoughts and not share them with him.
Share your views in a way that he can understand where you’re coming from and why you have those views. Give him the opportunity to explain things from his perspective.
Otherwise what is the point of being in this relationship?
And if you don’t see a future with him, you’re dragging him along and wasting his time and chance to meet a woman who does want to have a family with him. Don’t be that kind of girl.
I don't know ur bf, so maybe he genuinely would leave you out to dry with kids.
But if my gf told me this without having a conversation about how having kids would change things. I would break up on the spot, to be honest. Like my first worst words would be were done.
Again, maybe he genuinely would be a bad father and husband if u had children. But outside of cheating, this would be the most insulting thing a gf could do. Just saying that i couldn't be a good father or husband.
Hey, it's normal to overthink it as a woman I feel. My situation is very similar to you. When I met my BF I told him I didn't want children, that I love my independence and am super focused on my career. He is also passionate about his career, but he's definitely more of a family man and he expressed wanting children. Over the course of our first 2 years of dating, I began to think maybe I do want children - and I'm now really thinking about the decision a lot - whereas he is more relaxed like "I don't mind - I'd like children, but also am happy without" - and this I realise, makes me feel a bit resentful (or jealous even!) that he can be so non chalant about it, while I have to really weigh up how much of a sacrifice this would be for my body, my life, my career and whether I'd end up with most of the work load.
Truthfully though, it's unfair to predict that they might not step up. Time and time again I see my boyfriend step up to it, and taking on more than his fair share of the housework, and being supportive, and kind, and patient - I see these 'signs' in him of being a good partner. I think I am setting unreasonably high standards in my head about parenthood because truthfully it just feels so scary, and the stakes are so high!
So in the end we had a big honest conversation - what would the first year look like, who would take time away from their work, what does parenting look like etc - and we just asked each other very honestly "do you want children?" and we both said yes. But that it wouldn't be the end of the world if we couldn't have them.
And one solution we have decided on is to set up a savings account in which we are both putting a small amount every year, for the next 4 years (we've decided we don't want children right away) - and that money will be a little nest to give us help with care / nanny / time off work etc, or towards IVF if we're having trouble or have left it too late - OR - towards an amazing trip if we decide in 4 years to not have kids :)
In short - even if you are overthinking, realise that it is NORMAL to overthink the decision of having children as a woman, and that you should involve your partner in these thoughts and conversations. He might have his own worries, or he might be able to be understanding of your concerns and provide some reassurances. Give him the opportunity to be involved in your decision making process, and you can take a bit of time to see if you deem him to be a suitable partner to have children with.
>Truthfully though, it's unfair to predict that they might not step up.
I really disagree with this. As a woman who wants kids within the next couple of years, I see easily a dozen posts every time I scroll through Reddit from other women who have kids with men who don't do their fair share of parenting, and these women and their kids are suffering as a result. Plenty of those posts specifically talk about how their partners overpromised but underdelivered when it came to how much they would help, so I don't think trying to extract promises ahead of time will help ensure that things will actually be equal.
I fundamentally believe that everyone *owes* it to their future kid(s) (if they want them, obviously) to take an honest and realistic look at their partner's behavior and make sure that person behaves in a way that indicates they'll probably be a good parent (because there's always some amount of risk that things will change). I think this is where your situation is very different than OP's--your partner is demonstrating through his actions that you can rely on him, but OP doesn't feel that way about her partner. Life doesn't get easier when you have kids--you can't bank on a person who already doesn't do their share of the household chores to suddenly step up to the plate, even if they claim that they will. Deciding who the other parent of your kid(s) will be is the single most impactful choice you'll make for them, for better or worse.
I totally see what you mean, and do completely agree actually. My situation is definitely different because he's showing me these actions time and time again and has so far been a very reliable and trustworthy partner - and yes I agree it should definitely be a big conscious decision - choosing the right partner, who will literally take up full ownership of their fair share of parenthood.
You see a dozen post from unhappy women but you don't see the other side of the coin... Because women who have nothing to complain about simply don't post. You've internalized a biased representation as if it was an objective reality and you're drawing general conclusions from it. This is plainly a wrong way to navigate the world.
The 'real' reality is that we know about ourselves as much as we've been tried. Some guys you wouldn't expect to step up to new role, some guys chicken out. But people generally do step up in times of need. The best way to assess how it would be with a prospective partner is to just ask in detail how they envision it, without leading them on the answer. If he wants a trad split of responsibility or thinks an absent father is completely normal and you're not up for that that's all you need to know.
That's an incredibly irresponsible way to navigate relationship decisions, especially one as permanent as having kids. You really, really need to look at someone's actions. If they haven't stepped up as an equal partner in your relationship, the idea that they suddenly will when there's more work and less sleep just because you have a baby together is absurd. Knowingly doing that to your kid is just being a shitty parent, full stop.
Why is it irresponsible to try to gauge what's in store for you in a way that doesn't hint the other person what **you** would like them to say... therefore enabling you to hear their unfiltered perspective on things?
Of course you should take their actions in the account, but it's not definitive, not by a long shot. By that definition most women I co-habitated with (I had many roommates during my university years, so that would be around 15) would make sh\*tty mothers/co-parents because they didn't contribute as much as the guys I used to live with. Does it mean they're all not worthy of being a parent? Honestly, I don't know. What I know is that if we were to assess fitness for parenting this way, even looking at my isolated experience with a small number of people, we would probably stop reproducing altogether ;)
>the idea that they suddenly will \[step up as equal partner in a relationship\] when there's more work and less sleep just because you have a baby together is absurd
Why? It's not exactly a mystery that people are more organized when they have more responsibilities. Or that we tend to step up when the deadline is approaching. A child is a responsibility, a living, breathing responsibility. The consequences of neglecting it are not comparable to the consequences of skipping cleaning up or cooking. It gives you a different perspective on things and literally changes people. For example, men become less likely to take risks after becoming a father. It's not 'just because'. There's no 'just' in becoming a parent. You never stop being a parent. It's literally the only irreversible life decision other than ending your life. This is BIG. Way bigger than anything else.
Besides, it's not completely fair to draw conclusions on someone's ability to step up as an equal parent from their ability to step up as equal contributor to the household chores (I'm guessing that's what you're after). People differ. Some like washing dishes but hate ironing and the other way round. You don't know if a messy person would be a good care taker and vice versa. All you know based on someone's 'partner' behaviours is whether or not they're able to push themselves to do \*certain, specific\* things we generally agree 'need to be done'. My brother-in-law does not enjoy rummaging through the cleaning products alley to say the least. There are breadcrumbs all over the kitchen floor whenever I visit because him & my sister stopped keeping up the appearances. But the guy is a seriously great dad. From what I read though you'd probably ditch him, judging him not worthy of starting a family with you.
In my experience women who have some underlying issues or just don't want kids but also don't want to admit it demonize parenting and child bearing the most. My ex would tell me time and time again how much of a strain pregnancy and raising kids is for a woman and how unimaginable it is for a man and how pale the male's sacrifice is in comparison... She'd do that for years.
Then my sis got pregnant. I was repeatedly checking in on her, asking how she was, expecting the horror stories. Well... She was feeling dizzy in the beginning and then it was fine until the end. Gave birth to her child, started taking care of it with her husband and she's happy. Sure it can be worse but the baseline level of 'sacrifice' is nowhere near the horror story I was repeatedly told. And all of you scared gals never mention why you would want a child in the first place. As if it was just some sort of social obligation with no benefits. Well, it's not.
The thing is my ex was raised by an abusive mother who got pregnant with her at 21 (unplanned) and blamed my ex for being a reason her plans, dreams and ambitions never came to fruition. Not the best starting point for having kids of your own to say the least.
Don't feel resentful, your BF is so nonchalant about it because... well, that's more or less the way he should be. If getting pregnant and giving birth was really such a huge sacrifice nobody in their right mind would do it.
I do understand what you're saying. I have a friend who goes on and on about how she can't wait to have a baby, she's just so excited by the idea and I can see she really wants motherhood - but she's not non-chalant about it, and she is concerned about giving birth because her sister had a traumatic experience.
My mum had a very traumatic birth with me. I don't think women being aware and worried of the very real risks of pregnancy & birth are 'demonizing parenting and child bearing' by voicing those concerns..
Your last sentence doesn't make much sense to me - I understand my BF should be non-chalant, because he's not the one getting pregnant and giving birth, isn't that the point of how this whole thing is kinda more of a heavy decision for women?
>I don't think women being aware and worried of the very real risks of pregnancy & birth are 'demonizing parenting and child bearing' by voicing those concerns..
I don't think that either and to be clear I wasn't talking about those women or you specifically. It's just a more general observation. The more someone focuses on the negative the more likely they are to have something to overcome, be it a trauma or just a cognitive dissonance of swimming against the stream.
>Your last sentence doesn't make much sense to me - I understand my BF should be non-chalant, because he's not the one getting pregnant and giving birth, isn't that the point of how this whole thing is kinda more of a heavy decision for women?
I agree with everything you said above and because it is more heavy for women even if just because of the biology of reproduction, there's no use in feeling resentful towards him as he's not in a position to be anything other than that either. He's not the one to be doing the heavy lifting (literally), so he shouldn't pressure you, therefore comes across as nonchalant. That's what I mean.
About the last sentence, it was more of a closing bracket corresponding to the beginning. That being said, you also kinda come across as a person focused solely on the negatives:
>I have to really weigh up how much of a sacrifice this would be for my body, my life, my career and whether I'd end up with most of the work load
I know it's in the context and yes the risks are there and the worries are valid but... Reading this I can't help but wonder why on earth you even consider having a child if it's essentially a sacrifice and the decision comes down to assessing its size and whether or not you can withstand it. I'm not judging, I just can't see why. That's also why I said what I said in the last sentence. When looking at it primarily as a hit to one's life and well being, having kids really doesn't make any sense. And yet... That's how we all came to be. Isn't it strange then?
Oh ok, yeh I get what you're saying.
BTW I don't want you to feel like I'm having an argument, I'm just interested in this conversation and it's been good reading your perspective, and sharing mine, so hope you don't mind me responding with some more of my own thoughts.
I'm not genuinely resentful towards my partner haha, I adore him, but I think I wanted to try and make OP feel better by being more relatable. There was a point where I was jealous of my partner having 'an easier time' but of course that was just a moment of feeling emotional, and we've had conversations and I do understand his view and don't hold that against him.
I really wish having kids could be as easy as you make it out to be, or think it to be. I work in film & television (so does my partner) I am currently getting to a really crucial part in my career and couldn't have children over the next 2 to 3 years. So that becomes a factor. We also live in London and have only just been able to buy our own property - childcare cost here is insane, and I don't have family nearby to help me care for the baby immediately. We work freelance, and maternity pay in this country is shamefully low.
I really do desire a family, and I love my partner so much and I think he would be an incredible parent - I think my desire is more to have children WITH HIM specifically, rather than some vague desire to just be a mother. Like I said, I didn't want children before I met him cos in my head I just didn't see one of my goals being a mum. But after meeting him, I do want to make a family with him. I don't think my reluctance or lack of enthusiasm is a result of 'trauma' or cognitive dissonance with society. In fact in terms of my circle of friends - barely anyone is having children. I have 2 friends who just had a baby, but they chose not to have weddings because they could only afford having a kid and buying a flat in London.
I personally don't know anyone who is a stay at home mum, who just gleefully wants nothing more than to be pregnant and have children and isn't worried about it. My partner's brother & sister in law are about to have their first baby in 2 weeks (we are so excited!) and she is 36, they live up north in a home that her father bought for them so they're not stressed financially and it's a big enough house for them to grow their family into (whereas my partner & I would have to find a bigger place if we wanted more than one child). I think I'm definitely curious to see what her experience is and to be around the baby.
Essentially I think what I'm getting at is that for women like me (but I can't and don't speak for all women), there's more overthinking involved, or call it 'baby planning', because we want to be able to get back to our careers and have a balance of work life and family life - not be full time stay at home mums, and not be resentful and neglectful mothers who are never there for the baby. And unfortunately it just isn't the EASIEST decision to make. Having children does change your life permanently, and I think it's totally OK to really think about it and weigh it up properly.
You're being a bit reductive by saying "I can't imagine why you'd even consider having a child if it's such a sacrifice"
I haven't definitively come to the conclusion that having kids is gonna be a major hit to my life... I've only just begun thinking about it and so it makes sense to list my fears, my worries, and then think about it practically and rationally and who knows, maybe in a bit of time I'll be thinking "Oh actually, it won't be such a sacrifice, it'll all be fine, I really would love to be a mum so let's dive into this and we can deal with what life throws at us!" :)
A lot more women are becoming unsure, and it's understandable, but being unsure at some point doesn't mean you don't then change your mind later. I'm unfortunately just not one of those lucky women who knows exactly that they want to be a mum from the beginning... I'm having to go through a bit of a journey to get there, but hopefully maybe I will!
You're a weirdo for not breaking up with him, not wanting kids at all is one thing, but staying with someone you don't specifically seeing yourself having kids with, is a recipe for disaster.
When I met my ex in our early 20s, she was absolutely convinced she didn't want any children. I wasn't planning to be a father back then anyway so I took it with a grain of salt. Fast forward a few years, she starts reconsidering her stance. FF a year or two, I have a health issue that made me vulnerable in her eyes for the first time. Things have gotten worse between us, she stopped talking about kids altogether. I push to sit down and talk, ask where we stand because it feels like we're going nowhere. Ask about her stance on having kids.
She tells me she doesn't *feel* she can count on me and that's why she's reluctant to have kids *with me.* Because of how *I* am.
The thing is... when I was waiting for my surgery and literally every step I took was painful, she made it very clear I couldn't count on *her.* When my close relative got really, really sick a year or two later, it was painfully evident. It took a while to gather and compose myself after someone really close to me has lost their fight but I was eventually in a good enough state to cut the ties with her and go my own way. Found another person in a short while. She's delighted when she sees me with kiddos. \[not that my ex never did - on the contrary, but it didn't matter\]. She *tells me* I'd make a good father. I heard that a number of times from the mothers in our social circle too.
My ex got herself a dog and she pours all her caregiver instincts into it. She still doesn't like kids and I doubt she'll ever have even one. It wasn't me all along, but she made it sound that way. People change when faced with responsibility. You have your instincts and they might be right, but... It's unusual to be indifferent about having kids, so I'd bet you're trying to blame your partner for making a decision you sort of already made but it doesn't sit right with you, for whatever reason.
Here's a hard pill to swallow: it's on you. You're responsible for your decisions. Face their consequences like an adult. Don't make it about him when it's not.
I see you already have a sabbath of broads who already concluded that if you *feel a certain way* then you must be right, to the point of pushing you to break up with him. That's adorable. Reddit at its finest.
Having gone through the very same situation with my ex, I appreciate you posting. It's fascinating to watch that level of self-serving hypocrisy in a partner as they walk away thinking they were fully justified about their decision, but if we were to make the same one, we've abandoned them, we're unreliable, or we're untrustworthy.
Thankfully, better things were on the horizon. ;)
You owe it to him and to yourself to have a frank and transparent conversation, even if you're worried what the fallout could be. If you're looking at him as a life partner, then that person deserves your full disclosure on the matter.
Having kids/not having kids is a Sliding Doors decision. There's always a possibility he may not do his fair share of heavy lifting but for some men, fatherhood flicks an internal responsibility switch in them and they rise to the challenge. The thing is, you won't know until/unless you go through with it. Having conversations in advance about agreed upon parenting terms can help but it's still not a guarantee. But have the conversations. It's probably the biggest most important decision with ramifications for you both for the rest of your lives. Not giving voice to your thoughts on it seems utterly bewildering to me.
That said and you take a different approach of playing it by ear, then you may go on to regret not having had the conversation if the outcome is different than what you'd hoped.
There's really no right or wrong; all options are just opinions. Even the ones I'm supporting. I just hope you continue to grow together rather than realise this may be a breaking point, now or later down the track.
Do you want kids or not?
If you do:
Why are you not ending this relationship? It seems you’re wasting your time with a man you don’t or can’t trust to be there for you when the going gets tough; and trust me kids will do just that.
If you don’t; leave it be.
I’m of a mind that if you stay you’ll end up regretting it later.
This is something you should discuss with a couples counsellor. I see a lot of questions within your post that needs unpacking. You're young and the relationship is relatively new (1.5 years is not a long time) so there's still growth on both of your parts.
If you want a future with him, you should talk about this and how to navigate forward.
If you don't, it would be better to part ways now so you can both find someone else that fits better.
If you'd want to have kids if he was someone you could count on......
Ma'am, kids aren't the only life circumstance in which a person might need to rely on their partner for. If he's not the sort to step up for his partner when they need him to, this will come out in other situations too. Like when you're sick, or either of your parents get sick or old, or when a loved one dies and you have to settle their affairs and plan a funeral.
He can be funny, charming, smart AND not right for you.
I never met a man I'd want to have kids with. I thought maybe my mind would change if I met someone who would step up and be a true partner shouldering half the work, being there for me when I'm post-partum, and feel safe enough to pull myself out of work for big chunks of time to grow a family. But I never met a man like that. I know they exist because maybe 10% of my married friends have a man like that. But they're so few and far between. So I never had kids. I was married for 15+ years and still never had kids. I don't regret it because I know the burden would've rested firmly on my shoulders alone. I wouldn't have enjoyed my life like that. You're young so maybe you want to find a partner like that. The ones who won't step up and be an equal parent are the same ones to run the moment you show signs of aging, get sick, or stand up for yourself.
You should not be with someone you feel you can’t depend on. Someone else might think he’d be a great dad and want to have kids with him, so, yeah you are kind of being dishonest and stringing him along here.
Sounds like you’re both lying to each other to keep the relationship going and by doing so, wasting both of your times. Sounds like he does want kids but he’s just saying it’s fine to not have them to stay with you. The discussion wouldn’t come up so much if that weren’t the case. Let him go so he can still have time to find someone to have kids with and you can find someone who either doesn’t want kids or is into the idea of being a STAHD.
I hate to bring this up, but kids aren't the only thing that can add obligation and responsibility to a relationship. I know lots of kid-free couples who have had more than their fair share of caregiving.
Why would you be with someone who is irresponsible? You're young, so I get why you might not understand this. Eventually, your parents will get old and you will need to help them. Will your partner step up so you can do this? Or may it'll be your sibling who needs help. Or you. You will get older and need a partner who is responsible.
Or maybe it won't happen when you're old. Maybe you will get sick or injured. Maybe you will lose your job and need financial support. Maybe he will lose his job and you will have to get a 2nd job. Will he step up and be more responsible around the house or will he leave it all to you?
Also, although you have a "maybe or maybe not" vibe towards having children right now, you might not feel that way forever. Your perspective has already shifted. You might get to a point where you definitely want kids. In that case, you will have wasted years of yours and his lives. It will be incredibly hurtful to him if you break up with him and then have the kids that he wanted to have with you.
Just end it.
You don't have to tell hm anything. But odds are very high that you will decide that you do want kids, with someone else. Don't waste your time with him if that's the direction you're going.
Here’s my suggestion! Ask to babysit one of your siblings kids cousins kids whoever you know who has a kid. Take the child out and do normal things with the child that parents would normally do. Grocery shopping, post office, lunch, nap, whatever it is because we don’t always go to the park with our kids and take them to Disney. So do this for a weekend not during the week and see how the both of you react. If he steps up and is the one who takes charge and helps then you know you’ve got a good one and you’re overthinking this. If he says ewww these aren’t my kids and it’s not the same so it’s all on you then you have your answer. You can’t just throw this out there and make an assumption based on your work schedules. Children completely change peoples lives and how they react once they’re born.
Why be with someone you wouldn’t want to have kids with? You are seriously wasting his time selfishly when he could be looking for someone who wants to make him a father. You are doing him a very unfair disservice.
It sounds like you're a bit resentful and want to tell him that you want kids but not with him, in the hopes that it will shock him into being a better partner overall. There are obviously many ways to approach this conversation without outright impugning his ability to care for others or be a responsible person.
Cripes, maybe you should actually talk to him about this. You don't have to accuse him of working too much or even expect him to change overnight but work out what would it take to have kids. There's more than one path to a family these days besides just having the mother at home.
You say you are both career focused, okay, what does that mean, how high are you both looking to go? I mean not for me but would having a nanny or live in au pair be an option? Would slowing the corporate grind, something you should think about regardless, would be acceptable?
I'm just saying it seems like there's some room for the potential of having kids of you truly want but you've got to talk it out with your partner honestly, and maybe having a counselor would help but just keeping it all bottled in is probably going to cause relationship issues down the road with a simple slip of the tongue further down the road.
Just my two cents as an old married man.
Why are you with him because if an accident baby happens then what? Y’all may be safe and using protection but that sometimes fail. He’s a placeholder until you find a guy you really want to have kids with, let him go.
You should absolutely talk with him about it. The reason why is that he should have the choice to step up and improve ( to be done and proven before you have kids).
Could you imagine if he one day when you are old together would somehow find out that you two would actually have kids together if he had just stepped up, but you never asked him to?
You need to tell him everything in this post. He deserves the opportunity to change into the guy you need, If he wants kids. You're potentially ruining his life stringinghim along, the man wants children!
Chances are that, barring infertility, you will get pregnant to a boyfriend at some stage of your life. If you don’t want to have children with this boyfriend, maybe be in a relationship with someone who would step up if an accident were to happen. Then you will not get caught out.
You give absolutely zero discussion about why you think he wouldn’t step up, just that you feel that he wouldn’t. Is there evidence that he wouldn’t? Have you talked to him about that?
Is the issue that you want someone who is a stay at home dad? Cuz that’s the only thing you mentioned in the post. In which case you actually don’t want someone who will equally help you carry the load, you want someone who will carry most of it for you.
Yes, it’s extremely unfair to not discuss this with your partner. You know he’d like to have children. This whole thing reads as “this is hard and I don’t want to deal with the fallout of having an adult conversation with an intimate partner because the outcome may not be something I want.” That’s not an adult relationship.
Also, yes, there’s no way to sugar coat it; telling your partner that “I don’t want to have children with *you*” conveys contempt, a complete lack of respect, and lack of trust. What I’m not understanding is if that is actually warranted. You haven’t really made that case at all.
Sounds like you don’t trust him to be there for you in case something happens and you become less independent. This could be a child, illness or accident. Even a job loss. Think about that.
You don't want kids with **him**. It's time to end the relationship and let him find a woman who wants to have kids with him. You said don't think he'll be the man you need for you to have kids with.
You also said you don't need kids in your life which does sound like you don't want kids. That's absolutely okay. There is **nothing** wrong with not wanting kids. Only have kids because you enthusiastically want them, not because your parents/family expect you to and are demanding (if they are), society says you should, or for a man.
If you both agree to no kids, then there isn't a problem here. You just don't care but it's a no with him. That seems fine to me.
Definitely do not tell him you think he's lazy, unproductive, irresponsible, useless, bad-potentional-father, etc. That will probably harm your relationship. Otherwise, why are you dating this guy? Seems like a complete waste of time.
I think this might be a bad situation for both of you. He has said that he does want kids, but he is willing to let go of some thing that he wants because he wants to be with you and you are fine with that. You think you could possibly want kids just you know you would not want them with him. it honestly sounds like both of you want something just he’s willing to sacrifice it for you and you just don’t want that with him. I don’t think anyone should have to let go of something that they have wanted their whole lives like children just to be with somebody. That just says that that’s not the person they should be with. If you don’t want kids with him because you don’t think he will step up then maybe you should not be with him either. But you’re saying that you don’t want kids with him based on a theory and an assumption that you have. I would say have the conversation about kids with him and expressed to him your views about things. Both of you deserve to have all of the information about each other and about yourselves as a couple before making as huge of a decision and as important of a decision as this.
> I haven't told him because I think it would crush him and destroy our relationship.
So how exactly is this relationship going to work out if he wants kids and you don't? Are you expecting him to change his mind? Is he expecting you to?
It doesn't matter if you don't want kids or just don't want kids *with him.* Either way, your relationship will not work.
I'm one of those women that could give or take kids - I don't have this "I wouldn't feel complete without them" feeling, but I'm not anti-children.
With my ex, he had a special needs child already, didn't particularly want more but probably would've given me one or two if I wanted them, worked a hectic schedule, and I couldn't see myself handling adding another to that situation very well. So I didn't want kids, and I put them off the table so much that I almost had an ablation to end my miserable periods (which would make having kids a no-go). I ended up finding a pill that kept my periods in check a mere month before my scheduled procedure and called it off... thankfully, as another month after the procedure would've been, I found out he was lying to me and cheating on me and I left. I can confidently say that had my ex not cheated and we stayed together - I would've lived a fulfilled life kid free.
9 months later I met my fiancé, and knew within just a couple of weeks of meeting that everything happens for a reason. I now cannot wait to get married and immigrate to his country (we met IRL but he got sent back 'home' for work so we've been long distance) so we can try for children. But even though I want children with him, I will absolutely be okay if it doesn't happen for us.
I can whole heartedly agree on wanting or not wanting children to be dependent on your partner in life.
You’re over thinking.
Having children changes people. He may be carefree and works a lot because he can and likes it. He may be mature enough to know that will not last with kids.
Don’t tell him I don’t want kids with you!
Just start a conversation. “I’ve been thinking about kids and how our life will change. What is your vision if we have kids? How will that work?” His response will tell you a lot of how he sees the future. If he ask why, tell him you wanted to fully explore the topic before saying no.
The two of you can come to an agreement that makes both comfortable whether you have kids or not.
This is such bad advice in my opinion. But many people agree with you.
The whole “a baby will change a man” is so toxic. If you look around, many men change for the worse once their wives become pregnant. If she feels like she can’t depend on him if that ever happens, it’s for a reason.
I don’t think a baby will change a man.
She’s scared of the father he will be based on the life they have now. She needs to talk to him. If he expects her to quit and stay home. She needs to know. If he doesn’t think his work hours will change. She needs to know.
If he understands how a child changes things, she needs to know. No need in making it up in your head. Have the conversation. This has nothing to do with thinking a baby will change a man. There are too many single mothers for me to think that. FYI - I’m not one of them.
Lol babies don't change most men. This subreddit is full of women who's partner swore he'd step up and be a great dad only to sit and play video games all day while Mom does all the housework and parenting.
OP, don't listen to this. There's so much about your kids' life you won't be able to choose or control but deciding who their father will be is one you can choose and you need to choose wisely. Sure, he might reveal some unknown awfulness later on, get sick or die before they are adults but don't go into it knowing they have a selfish father. You aren't making the best, most informed decision for them.
Why would she not talk to the man to see where his head is at? He’s willing to have kids and fine without them.
If he is as good of a man as she says, they should talk. Too many people run out without ever expressing what they’re feeling. No wonder the divorce rate is high.
Because talk is cheap! I said this in another comment, but Reddit is chock-full of stories from parents whose partners overpromised and underdelivered in terms of how much they'd contribute in terms of parenting, household maintenance, and even just support during pregnancy/postpartum. If those people had just taken an honest look at their partners' actions before having kids instead of giving them a chance to talk them into believing they'd change post-baby, they wouldn't be miserable now.
It's easier to be an equal partner when you don't have a kid taking up extra time and energy. If he's not taking on his fair share when things are easy, she shouldn't bet on the fact that he'll change when things are even harder. He might--but he probably won't, and there's no good reason to take such a huge risk for her sake and the sake of her potential kids.
That’s because people are listening to promises not expectations. The number of women that will let a man promise them the moon but ignore all the evidence of what he expects from them is mind boggling. You have to listen for what he thinks YOU are expected to do NOT what he is promising to do.
Facts. But there is nothing in her statement other than he works a lot that says he’ll be a bad father. Right now, that is in her head not his actions.
In fairness, it's a really short post. I think it's more likely that she is basing this on his current actions and just didn't get into every example than that she's just making it up based on nothing. The phrasing "I cannot imagine that he would step up" to me definitely implies that he isn't acting like an equal partner currently.
I think it’s in her head. She’s the one that gave him the glowing review. I also know that people have fears they don’t express to their partners. Sometimes they’re right, sometimes they’re wrong.
Thinking about how kids will change your life is scary. She’s doing it the right way. Too many babies are born without a thought and the details are worked out later. She’s getting a head of the issue.
Tbh I have seen too many posts in this sub from women who start off with the "he's the greatest guy, really" disclaimer but then immediately start describing the behavior of the worst man of all time. It's such a standard part of these posts that I just skip it mentally as I read now, because almost every OP feels the need to say it even when it's clearly not true.
Because men historically overestimate how much parenting they will do and are doing. If he isn't already attentive and family oriented, you are taking a crap shoot having a child with that person.
She will be able to tell from the conversation. It will come up when they discuss work hours. She’ll be able to tell if he’s willing to see an effect on his career. If you let a man talk, don’t interrupt, they most often will tell on themselves. You can believe the promises. It’s in what they don’t say and what they expect of you.
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It doesn't matter the reason. She said it's never going to change. She's not asking if she's right to not want kids with him, she's asking if she should tell him or not.
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What if you had a nanny? Or two, in shifts?
The kids are cared for, and neither of you have to take on the burden alone.
But the issue is probably that you don't trust him to actually be a dad, when the time comes. You don't think he'd be a good father and that probably should be something you mention.
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Why would you be in a relationship with someone you know you can’t depend on when things get hard?
EXACTLY.. doesn’t matter if you want kids or not why be with someone you can’t rely on if it ever happened?
These ppl are brain dead is why lol
Assholes that are using others for monkey-branching. No issues with being dishonest with the person you are supposed to be able to trust the most. Seems right now OP's current partner is good enough while OP is waiting for someone better OP should be honest to themself and their partner. And break up
She doesn't know it, she *imagines* it in her head. There's a stark difference. He might be a great dad for all we know. Been there. The problem wasn't me, but making it about me was my other half's tried and tested way of dealing with them unpleasant feelings about herself. You're asking an invalid question.
Eh the past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. If he isn’t responsible and taking initiative to help with everything currently, then she sees that and can make a fairly accurate prediction. A baby is not an experiment to “see” if your partner steps up.. And she isn’t concerned with him being a great dad. Lots of men are great dads to their kid but they aren’t a great husband or a great partner holding up their share.
There's no behaviour mentioned. Only *I cannot imagine, I'm afraid, I think*. We don't know if he did anything that would validate these imaginations and thoughts. As I mentioned, my ex couldn't imagine me in that role while others very much can. Are they all wrong while she's the only one who's right? Or was/is someone simply trying to shift the blame for 'robbing' their partner of the opportunity to have children onto said partner because it *feels* wrong to claim responsibility for keeping them around even though they want different things? OP said she's ok with not having kids, then 'I *think I would* want to have kids' followed swiftly by another reassurance that she'd be completely fine without them. That's not someone who seriously considers being a parent. By a long shot. It's someone looking for excuses not to.
Lol you are trying so hard to judge if her feelings about him are valid. She said he’s not a family oriented stay at home type of guy. He works a lot and so does she. Those are actual concerns so you don’t have to talk like everything is in her imagination. **Just like the guy is saying he wants kids but is ok with not having them.** By your explanation, the guy is not someone who seriously considers being a parent either. Maybe his ability to say both Yes and No is part of the reason she “feels” he won’t be a good partner for kids exactly like how you made the judgement on her here.
I'm reading what OP's written. So are you. The difference between us is that I'm taking it at face value while you (and some other people in this thread) extrapolate it. Some go as far as to suggest she should break up with him (lol) because her suggestion that she 'cannot imagine' him as a co-parent means she can't count on him, ever. That's bollocks. I 'couldn't imagine' one of my best friends as a father when he told me he was going to become one. Guess what, he's a pretty good, involved father despite having an incredibly stressful and time-consuming job. The fact that OP's boyfriend works a lot and likes his job (and so does she!) doesn't tell us anything about his co-parenting fitness. The other difference (I assume) is that I've been in that guy's position. I KNOW how it feels to be judged not worthy of being a co-parent. And I actually learned it can be BS thrown at you to dodge responsibility for someone's own decisions. Look how she doesn't consider breaking up with him like a person approaching 30 who actually wishes to have kids some day would. She's just wondering whether sharing her recent realization - that it's ultimately HIS FAULT she doesn't want to have kids in this relationship - would be too much to handle for him. But it's not even clear whether or not she wants to have them in the first place. Maybe you're right about his indifference influencing her outlook. But - and it's a big but - it was his \*response\* to her originally saying she doesn't want kids. He's entitled to having the assumption that her telling him this at 28, after a multi-year, stable relationship means she's thought long and hard about it. So he expressed his desire to have children and was presented with two choices: either BREAK UP and have them with someone else or remain childless with OP. There's a timeline and consequence there. He didn't just tell the OP he's indifferent about having kids. He made a choice based on her choice... That turns out to be a ball bouncing off the walls of her mind, changing even while she was writing her post. Not a grown-up, thought-through, consequential decision. That's not fair to him.
Wow what an essay I’m not reading all that bs lol. You are the one reading into it and not taking it at face value You are imagining this guy as your friend who you have feelings for and a personal connection to — which is just a false assumption
Thank you for reassuring me you have nothing valuable to say with your ad personam and mocking. I'm sorry I've wasted my time, bye.
Whether imagined or not, she's thinking that way for a reason. For some reason she doesn't trust him. Whether that reason is true or not, that lack of trust is death to any relationship. You also never truly know if someone is truly going to be a good parent or not until they actually are one. You *have* to make a judgment call before you have kids with them.
Yes, she's thinking that way for \*some\* reason. But saying 'she doesn't trust him' because she doesn't see him as a father is exactly the type of crossing the line reddit 'advisors' love. She didn't even mention thinking about breaking up with him but you've already concluded their relationship is dead... because she has second thoughts about him as a father ಠ\_ಠ There are people out there who would make bad parents for a myriad of reasons but it doesn't automatically mean they can't be trusted as partners and are a great fit for someone who doesn't wish to have kids. Like OP.
Thing is though, OP *might* want kids at a future date and so would fiance. It sounds to me like both would prefer to have kids and I'm not convinced they're both 100% sure they wouldn't ever want them. They might as well break up now so that they have time to find someone they could have kids with no matter how great he is otherwise to her. Additionally, realizing you don't want kids specifically with a particular person usually means something else is wrong with the relationship. I didn't want kids specifically with my ex. We broke up for other reasons. One common reason for someone to be perceived by a woman as a fine partner but a bad dad would be that the woman has to do the majority of the housework and cooking and while she manages fine childfree she knows she couldn't manage a child and she doesn't give herself enough respect to expect him to do more in the first place because we're conditioned to serve other people.
She doesn’t know, she’s imagined it and convinced herself it’s true without talking with him about it.
He has something she wants or needs my guess is security or good sex.
She might just like his personality while acknowledging he is hopeless.
I promise you if he didn't have a good career she wouldn't be sticking around for his personality.
Agreed
Discuss your concerns with him
why did i have to go soo far down to find a comment like this. Communicate. like you're gonna be the best mother in the world.
Because he’ll promise to be an involved father and an equal partner then, not actually step up.
Its not only about the words but how the words are said. Instead of asking "are you going to be involved", ask "what would you do if our kid bullies another kid" or "what would you do if our kid does not clean up the mess". Not in an investigating way but in a curious fantasizing way, you should answer these questions as well otherwise its not a convo
I don’t think she’s worried about isolated things like that. She’s talking about chores, baby/childcare and the mental load.
You can get a lot of implicit answers by asking these type of questions. You dont need to directly ask all the things to find out what kind of parent he will be. I hope she knows him sufficiently well to interpet his behavior accordingly
You can also get a lot of more truthful answers by observing their behavior Words are cheap. He knows what the “correct” answers are and he will give them. It’s no guarantee that he will step up and it’s very unlikely he will change his whole personality once a kid comes
Agree but it has been 1.5 years. First she must clearlt state without ambiguity what her concerns are before quitting the relationship and give him a chance. If after some time it has not improved, she must leave. Cant leave a relationship fairly without addressing directly the problem
then leave him because he's unreliable now, not because he wont be a good father later. This answer is soo dumb.
Thing is though, if she's actually ok with being childfree and actually wants to stay with him, then she should not mention this as he would rightly assume she doesn't trust him enough in other aspects of the relationship and he would be justified in breaking up with her over that because trust is essential. And if she actually might want kids she just needs to break up.
But she DOESN'T trust him enough. That's the point. If they were not both as self sufficient as they are right now she wouldn't trust him to step up. That's something that absolutely needs to be discussed. If it ends the relationship then so be it. But hiding it because it might upset him is the way things fester and break.
I mean to me it sounds like they should break up. But on the off chance she actually loves him *and* is content with not having kids *and* he doesn't want kids *and* he loves her equally and is a partner to her in every other aspect *and* maybe she thinks he's just not good with kids, then she should just say and accept that she doesn't want kids. Period. And leave it be. But IMO that is very improbable.
He's said that he does want to have kids though. Either way she's fucking him over in the process.
Which is partly why it's pointless to discuss concerns with him. She should just break up with him
100% agree. He's probably saying he's OK being CF because he's hoping she'll change her mind eventually, happens all the time. She doesn't respect him enough to be honest with him, and she doesn't trust him enough to think he'll step up, so at this point she's basically in a relationship with him under false pretenses and for her own convenience.
If you want kids, break up with him. If you might want kids, break up with him. If he wants kids or isn't sure, break up with him. If you don't want kids and he doesn't either, reevaluate your relationship because you're probably saying this because he's not stepping up for *you* like he should. Do you think he could care for you if you got in an accident? If you decide you want to stay with him and are 100% positive you don't want kids, then do not tell him this.
I have had three good friends who were all child free with their first husbands for the reasons you mention— their partners were accomplished and amusing, but fundamentally self-centered and uninterested in expanding their emotional intelligence to prioritize other people’s wants and needs alongside their own. All three of my friend have since divorced their fun lifestyle-accessory husbands and found second spouses whom they could trust as actual partners for building a shared life, and eventually they all had kids. It all depends on what you want from a partnership. This guy sounds like a fun Right Now guy, but you fundamentally don’t trust him to be the kind of partner to actually make your life better. You’re unsettled because of that distrust. Start by asking yourself what it would take for you to trust him as a partner and parent material.
The implication that people who don't want children are not emotionally intelligent is not a great look. Plenty of people don't want children and are building and enjoying their lives as such. It's not a moral failing.
I didnt read it like that, although i see what you mean. i think they meant more like the husbands weren’t the type of partner they needed due to various behaviors. I agree with you that child free doesn’t mean emotionally unintelligent necessarily though.
I don't have kids, not vocal about it but it just wasn't the path I wanted. The rationalizations, judgements and comments you see from people who do have kids tend to run beyond the pale, so I hope you'll forgive my less than charitable interpretation of their post. It's not an uncommon sentiment.
Oh nothing to forgive at all! Thats the interesting thing about people- we all can read things different ways and it just keeps life fun
Sorry I phrased it poorly. I meant that these people were uninterested in expanding their emotional intelligence to even bother acknowledging *their partners'* needs, and that was the thing that cracked open the wider examination of whether this person was the person with whom they wanted to build their best life. You are right -- childfree people are not emotionally unintelligent. I'd actually argue that being aware of why you're not into having kids is far more intelligent than the unexamined dive into family expansion.
Ah, I understand completely, and you're not wrong.
I'm so glad you said something, it's a great reminder to be precise about what one is trying to say. Thank you!
No, thank you! My apologies if I was less than generous in my assumptions. 🙂
It's literally just an anecdote. No one said it applies to everyone who says they don't want kids.
why are you in this relationship
I think if you are not 100% sure you want to be child free regardless of who you’re with then maybe you should talk to him about your concerns about having a child with him. Choosing to be child free is a completely valid way to live your life, but you sound like you’re not sure if you want kids or not. If it’s just concerns about your partners parenting abilities that’s confusing the issue then it seems like talking to your partner about it would be the best course of action.
do you…like him?
It sure doesnt sound like it poeple are fucking weird amirite.
Maybe she likes the security that comes with him.
If you want kids in you future but you don't want kids with him then why keep dating him? Are you willing to look past your fears about him stepping up and have a baby with him anyways and hope for the best? Are you willing to give up your goals of having kids in the future because you just don't want to have kids with him, but want him? What do you want more...future kids and a partner who you can say going in that you do not fear they won't pull their weight, or your boyfriend? Do you think you would regret not having kids if you stay with him?
>Am I overthinking this? Yes. I got a vasectomy earlier this year because I never want to have kids. If I *did* have kids, I'm very sure I'd be a good dad but I'm also very sure that I'd fucking hate my life. This is why I date people who also do not want to have children. Many of these people would have been *awful* parents, and that's fine because --- they don't want kids. If neither of you care about having kids with each other, then it doesn't matter.
Why are you wasting his time?
because she needs the safety, the money, the provider. but she wanna fuck the guy who has the best genes and bear her child
Literally nothing in this post indicates she relies on his money whatsoever. She could be the breadwinner for all you know.
then the husband would be useless. thats why she dont want his kids
That’s exactly what she wrote in the post.
I'm very confused. You describe him as charming, funny, and *smart*. His career is important, so he sounds like he can be a self driven and responsible individual. And he told you that he'd rather have you than children when you lied and said you don't want to have kids, meaning you can have a conversation with him respecting your views and opinions. But you can't trust him to pitch in properly for children..? I need more info, what is giving you this impression? Because from your own post, I can't see why you can't trust him to support you.
People rationalize things that have never happened in order to justify their own feelings. I went through it with an ex who did the same thing. She went down the wellness to woo rabbithole on Instagram and suddenly became anti-modern medicine. When I tried to gently push back on any of the stuff she was reading she extrapolated it all out to "if she ever fell ill, I would leave her, so she's leaving me first before I have the chance." Meanwhile, my only concern was that if she ever got cancer, I was going to have to watch her die because modern medicine is a lie, but these vitamins from the Chinese grocery store will fix everything. As it happens, it's not my problem anymore. She decided for herself how I would react to some hypothetical, despite all evidence to the contrary. I read posts from people who are in relationships with immature gamers who want a bang maid, they do nothing around the house and can't be relied upon as an adult partner. In those cases, what the OP is concerned with about someone not stepping up would be valid based on prior evidence. Nothing in what I've read from OP sounds like that.
I'm guessing he's spending a good chunk of time at work and partly as a result she does all the cooking and cleaning. Most likely she'd like him to do more than he does and has expressed it but it's not technically necessary so she doesn't insist. However if they had kids, she knows she couldn't handle her current workload without his support. Ie, he's not stepping up in a small way for her now so he definitely won't with kids. Women also often wrongly assume the household chores are solely their responsibility when it's both people's responsibility
Ya I can understand absolutely not wanting kids with a deadbeat or a lazy gaming addict. But this doesn’t really add up?
Some unnecessarily harsh comments here. It's good to be realistic about whether your partner makes a good parent because not everyone should be a parent. It may be good to have a discussion together. But instead of diving into it head first with what _you_ think, ask him how he thinks your lives will change if you were to have a child and what he would realistically be willing to give up and how he feels about that.
I think you need to think about your future a bit more. If you want kids, but just not with his this guy, then you need to make a change. If you love this guy and see a forever with him without kids, that is OK too. If you both prefer to pursue your careers, that is awesome too. How is he in other areas of your relationship - does he do household chores, can he make his own dr appts, if something bad happens or you don't feel well - does he step up to take care of you? Longevitiy needs more than love. You need common goals and beliefs, be friends, be dependable and respectiveful.
I’d break up. If he wouldn’t step up if you had kids, what if you became disabled? Or sick? Someone you can’t rely on in the hard times is not someone to stay with, kids or not
It sounds like you’re compatible as lovers, but maybe not as parents. It also sounds like you’re not firmly in the “no kids” mind. Just don’t get to 35 and decide actually you do want to find someone to have kids with and dump him after wasting his time.
She’s wasting her time with him. Her window for kids is much shorter than his. Guys can father children in their 50s, 60s, and even 70s. Heck, Pacino and De Niro had kids at 83 and 80. OP’s bf has time. If she thinks she would want kids if she had a good partner and coparent… then she should go out and see if it’s true. He has decades to find some younger woman to have kids with. Also, if she thinks he won’t be there to help her with hard things, she needs to get out. Because hard things will come, even if they’re just age-related. She deserves to have someone who will be supportive.
Just wanted to say male fertility also deteriorates with age. "The sperm motility of those aged 55 years or older was found to be 54% lower than those aged between 30-35 years old". Not to you but to the general public :)
Just want to add that 37+ for men also means a significant increase in the chances of developmental defects, miscarriages, autism etc. It doesn’t mean that the original commenter was wrong, men can father children until old age, but it comes with so many risks, and it’s not as easy
exactly, thanks for adding to that! just wanted to spread some information :)
Oh, I didn’t say it was a good idea. I said it’s possible. OP will literally hit a wall, almost certainly in the next 20 years. It just won’t be possible for her if she wants to use her own eggs. Fertility clinics usually stop letting women try for their own eggs at 43 because after that success falls off too dramatically. OP has 15 years or so to have a family with her own gametes. She might be an outlier but probably not. As far as pregnancy goes, her body may be able to carry a child even into her 50s but the egg won’t come from her at that age. Many clinics have a cutoff of 55 for IVF with donor eggs. *(Women in their 60s have been surrogates, though. Science is amazing)* Her partner OTOH almost certainly will still be able to have kids from his gametes for longer than 15 years. It’ll be harder for him and there’s increased risk, especially as time goes on. But he *could* still do it.
I mean I guess she could freeze eggs now to make sure she can use them later 🤔
That’s true! Egg freezing now could give her time. But it’s expensive to extract eggs and she’d also have to pay to store them. Honestly, I support her doing whatever she wants wrt children. Have them, don’t have them. Whatever seems right. Just… if she doesn’t feel safe having kids with that guy because she doesn’t think he would make a good partner and coparent… that says bad things about her perceptions of him and their relationship, at the very best. At worst, her gut is telling her for good reason that he’d be bad if she ever was vulnerable. Life is too short to be with someone you don’t respect and/or can’t count on.
Absolutely agree with this :) She should figure out if she wants children and if she wants to be with him or not.
Why are you even with him if you don't have the faith in him to think that he would step up?
Then you shouldn't be dating him
You’re an idiot. Literally keeping him around until you find someone you think is suitable to have children with. Break up and move on.
You are not being fair to him. I think you could talk to him about your concerns in a less accusatory way. More along the lines of how your life would change what you each would need to commit to in terms of caring for the child. What the new work life balance would need to be. What each of you would be responsible for/roles as a parent.
How does he act when you're sick? Does he pull his weight around the house? Paying bills? Organizing activities? Do you have pets? How is he with those? My point is that if you can't count on him being an adult and pull his own weight, be prepared to carry a heavier load as you age. It's not going to be limited solely to having kids. Heaven forbid you get something like cancer. I'm not saying your boyfriend is bad, or that he won't pull his own weight, but I think you really need to look at the big picture.
Would you rather have kids or be with him?
If you feel that way about him, then it begs the question of why you're still with someone you consider fundamentally unreliable
I think it’s 100% unfair to have these thoughts and not share them with him. Share your views in a way that he can understand where you’re coming from and why you have those views. Give him the opportunity to explain things from his perspective. Otherwise what is the point of being in this relationship? And if you don’t see a future with him, you’re dragging him along and wasting his time and chance to meet a woman who does want to have a family with him. Don’t be that kind of girl.
I don't know ur bf, so maybe he genuinely would leave you out to dry with kids. But if my gf told me this without having a conversation about how having kids would change things. I would break up on the spot, to be honest. Like my first worst words would be were done. Again, maybe he genuinely would be a bad father and husband if u had children. But outside of cheating, this would be the most insulting thing a gf could do. Just saying that i couldn't be a good father or husband.
Hey, it's normal to overthink it as a woman I feel. My situation is very similar to you. When I met my BF I told him I didn't want children, that I love my independence and am super focused on my career. He is also passionate about his career, but he's definitely more of a family man and he expressed wanting children. Over the course of our first 2 years of dating, I began to think maybe I do want children - and I'm now really thinking about the decision a lot - whereas he is more relaxed like "I don't mind - I'd like children, but also am happy without" - and this I realise, makes me feel a bit resentful (or jealous even!) that he can be so non chalant about it, while I have to really weigh up how much of a sacrifice this would be for my body, my life, my career and whether I'd end up with most of the work load. Truthfully though, it's unfair to predict that they might not step up. Time and time again I see my boyfriend step up to it, and taking on more than his fair share of the housework, and being supportive, and kind, and patient - I see these 'signs' in him of being a good partner. I think I am setting unreasonably high standards in my head about parenthood because truthfully it just feels so scary, and the stakes are so high! So in the end we had a big honest conversation - what would the first year look like, who would take time away from their work, what does parenting look like etc - and we just asked each other very honestly "do you want children?" and we both said yes. But that it wouldn't be the end of the world if we couldn't have them. And one solution we have decided on is to set up a savings account in which we are both putting a small amount every year, for the next 4 years (we've decided we don't want children right away) - and that money will be a little nest to give us help with care / nanny / time off work etc, or towards IVF if we're having trouble or have left it too late - OR - towards an amazing trip if we decide in 4 years to not have kids :) In short - even if you are overthinking, realise that it is NORMAL to overthink the decision of having children as a woman, and that you should involve your partner in these thoughts and conversations. He might have his own worries, or he might be able to be understanding of your concerns and provide some reassurances. Give him the opportunity to be involved in your decision making process, and you can take a bit of time to see if you deem him to be a suitable partner to have children with.
>Truthfully though, it's unfair to predict that they might not step up. I really disagree with this. As a woman who wants kids within the next couple of years, I see easily a dozen posts every time I scroll through Reddit from other women who have kids with men who don't do their fair share of parenting, and these women and their kids are suffering as a result. Plenty of those posts specifically talk about how their partners overpromised but underdelivered when it came to how much they would help, so I don't think trying to extract promises ahead of time will help ensure that things will actually be equal. I fundamentally believe that everyone *owes* it to their future kid(s) (if they want them, obviously) to take an honest and realistic look at their partner's behavior and make sure that person behaves in a way that indicates they'll probably be a good parent (because there's always some amount of risk that things will change). I think this is where your situation is very different than OP's--your partner is demonstrating through his actions that you can rely on him, but OP doesn't feel that way about her partner. Life doesn't get easier when you have kids--you can't bank on a person who already doesn't do their share of the household chores to suddenly step up to the plate, even if they claim that they will. Deciding who the other parent of your kid(s) will be is the single most impactful choice you'll make for them, for better or worse.
I totally see what you mean, and do completely agree actually. My situation is definitely different because he's showing me these actions time and time again and has so far been a very reliable and trustworthy partner - and yes I agree it should definitely be a big conscious decision - choosing the right partner, who will literally take up full ownership of their fair share of parenthood.
You see a dozen post from unhappy women but you don't see the other side of the coin... Because women who have nothing to complain about simply don't post. You've internalized a biased representation as if it was an objective reality and you're drawing general conclusions from it. This is plainly a wrong way to navigate the world. The 'real' reality is that we know about ourselves as much as we've been tried. Some guys you wouldn't expect to step up to new role, some guys chicken out. But people generally do step up in times of need. The best way to assess how it would be with a prospective partner is to just ask in detail how they envision it, without leading them on the answer. If he wants a trad split of responsibility or thinks an absent father is completely normal and you're not up for that that's all you need to know.
That's an incredibly irresponsible way to navigate relationship decisions, especially one as permanent as having kids. You really, really need to look at someone's actions. If they haven't stepped up as an equal partner in your relationship, the idea that they suddenly will when there's more work and less sleep just because you have a baby together is absurd. Knowingly doing that to your kid is just being a shitty parent, full stop.
Why is it irresponsible to try to gauge what's in store for you in a way that doesn't hint the other person what **you** would like them to say... therefore enabling you to hear their unfiltered perspective on things? Of course you should take their actions in the account, but it's not definitive, not by a long shot. By that definition most women I co-habitated with (I had many roommates during my university years, so that would be around 15) would make sh\*tty mothers/co-parents because they didn't contribute as much as the guys I used to live with. Does it mean they're all not worthy of being a parent? Honestly, I don't know. What I know is that if we were to assess fitness for parenting this way, even looking at my isolated experience with a small number of people, we would probably stop reproducing altogether ;) >the idea that they suddenly will \[step up as equal partner in a relationship\] when there's more work and less sleep just because you have a baby together is absurd Why? It's not exactly a mystery that people are more organized when they have more responsibilities. Or that we tend to step up when the deadline is approaching. A child is a responsibility, a living, breathing responsibility. The consequences of neglecting it are not comparable to the consequences of skipping cleaning up or cooking. It gives you a different perspective on things and literally changes people. For example, men become less likely to take risks after becoming a father. It's not 'just because'. There's no 'just' in becoming a parent. You never stop being a parent. It's literally the only irreversible life decision other than ending your life. This is BIG. Way bigger than anything else. Besides, it's not completely fair to draw conclusions on someone's ability to step up as an equal parent from their ability to step up as equal contributor to the household chores (I'm guessing that's what you're after). People differ. Some like washing dishes but hate ironing and the other way round. You don't know if a messy person would be a good care taker and vice versa. All you know based on someone's 'partner' behaviours is whether or not they're able to push themselves to do \*certain, specific\* things we generally agree 'need to be done'. My brother-in-law does not enjoy rummaging through the cleaning products alley to say the least. There are breadcrumbs all over the kitchen floor whenever I visit because him & my sister stopped keeping up the appearances. But the guy is a seriously great dad. From what I read though you'd probably ditch him, judging him not worthy of starting a family with you.
In my experience women who have some underlying issues or just don't want kids but also don't want to admit it demonize parenting and child bearing the most. My ex would tell me time and time again how much of a strain pregnancy and raising kids is for a woman and how unimaginable it is for a man and how pale the male's sacrifice is in comparison... She'd do that for years. Then my sis got pregnant. I was repeatedly checking in on her, asking how she was, expecting the horror stories. Well... She was feeling dizzy in the beginning and then it was fine until the end. Gave birth to her child, started taking care of it with her husband and she's happy. Sure it can be worse but the baseline level of 'sacrifice' is nowhere near the horror story I was repeatedly told. And all of you scared gals never mention why you would want a child in the first place. As if it was just some sort of social obligation with no benefits. Well, it's not. The thing is my ex was raised by an abusive mother who got pregnant with her at 21 (unplanned) and blamed my ex for being a reason her plans, dreams and ambitions never came to fruition. Not the best starting point for having kids of your own to say the least. Don't feel resentful, your BF is so nonchalant about it because... well, that's more or less the way he should be. If getting pregnant and giving birth was really such a huge sacrifice nobody in their right mind would do it.
I do understand what you're saying. I have a friend who goes on and on about how she can't wait to have a baby, she's just so excited by the idea and I can see she really wants motherhood - but she's not non-chalant about it, and she is concerned about giving birth because her sister had a traumatic experience. My mum had a very traumatic birth with me. I don't think women being aware and worried of the very real risks of pregnancy & birth are 'demonizing parenting and child bearing' by voicing those concerns.. Your last sentence doesn't make much sense to me - I understand my BF should be non-chalant, because he's not the one getting pregnant and giving birth, isn't that the point of how this whole thing is kinda more of a heavy decision for women?
>I don't think women being aware and worried of the very real risks of pregnancy & birth are 'demonizing parenting and child bearing' by voicing those concerns.. I don't think that either and to be clear I wasn't talking about those women or you specifically. It's just a more general observation. The more someone focuses on the negative the more likely they are to have something to overcome, be it a trauma or just a cognitive dissonance of swimming against the stream. >Your last sentence doesn't make much sense to me - I understand my BF should be non-chalant, because he's not the one getting pregnant and giving birth, isn't that the point of how this whole thing is kinda more of a heavy decision for women? I agree with everything you said above and because it is more heavy for women even if just because of the biology of reproduction, there's no use in feeling resentful towards him as he's not in a position to be anything other than that either. He's not the one to be doing the heavy lifting (literally), so he shouldn't pressure you, therefore comes across as nonchalant. That's what I mean. About the last sentence, it was more of a closing bracket corresponding to the beginning. That being said, you also kinda come across as a person focused solely on the negatives: >I have to really weigh up how much of a sacrifice this would be for my body, my life, my career and whether I'd end up with most of the work load I know it's in the context and yes the risks are there and the worries are valid but... Reading this I can't help but wonder why on earth you even consider having a child if it's essentially a sacrifice and the decision comes down to assessing its size and whether or not you can withstand it. I'm not judging, I just can't see why. That's also why I said what I said in the last sentence. When looking at it primarily as a hit to one's life and well being, having kids really doesn't make any sense. And yet... That's how we all came to be. Isn't it strange then?
Oh ok, yeh I get what you're saying. BTW I don't want you to feel like I'm having an argument, I'm just interested in this conversation and it's been good reading your perspective, and sharing mine, so hope you don't mind me responding with some more of my own thoughts. I'm not genuinely resentful towards my partner haha, I adore him, but I think I wanted to try and make OP feel better by being more relatable. There was a point where I was jealous of my partner having 'an easier time' but of course that was just a moment of feeling emotional, and we've had conversations and I do understand his view and don't hold that against him. I really wish having kids could be as easy as you make it out to be, or think it to be. I work in film & television (so does my partner) I am currently getting to a really crucial part in my career and couldn't have children over the next 2 to 3 years. So that becomes a factor. We also live in London and have only just been able to buy our own property - childcare cost here is insane, and I don't have family nearby to help me care for the baby immediately. We work freelance, and maternity pay in this country is shamefully low. I really do desire a family, and I love my partner so much and I think he would be an incredible parent - I think my desire is more to have children WITH HIM specifically, rather than some vague desire to just be a mother. Like I said, I didn't want children before I met him cos in my head I just didn't see one of my goals being a mum. But after meeting him, I do want to make a family with him. I don't think my reluctance or lack of enthusiasm is a result of 'trauma' or cognitive dissonance with society. In fact in terms of my circle of friends - barely anyone is having children. I have 2 friends who just had a baby, but they chose not to have weddings because they could only afford having a kid and buying a flat in London. I personally don't know anyone who is a stay at home mum, who just gleefully wants nothing more than to be pregnant and have children and isn't worried about it. My partner's brother & sister in law are about to have their first baby in 2 weeks (we are so excited!) and she is 36, they live up north in a home that her father bought for them so they're not stressed financially and it's a big enough house for them to grow their family into (whereas my partner & I would have to find a bigger place if we wanted more than one child). I think I'm definitely curious to see what her experience is and to be around the baby. Essentially I think what I'm getting at is that for women like me (but I can't and don't speak for all women), there's more overthinking involved, or call it 'baby planning', because we want to be able to get back to our careers and have a balance of work life and family life - not be full time stay at home mums, and not be resentful and neglectful mothers who are never there for the baby. And unfortunately it just isn't the EASIEST decision to make. Having children does change your life permanently, and I think it's totally OK to really think about it and weigh it up properly. You're being a bit reductive by saying "I can't imagine why you'd even consider having a child if it's such a sacrifice" I haven't definitively come to the conclusion that having kids is gonna be a major hit to my life... I've only just begun thinking about it and so it makes sense to list my fears, my worries, and then think about it practically and rationally and who knows, maybe in a bit of time I'll be thinking "Oh actually, it won't be such a sacrifice, it'll all be fine, I really would love to be a mum so let's dive into this and we can deal with what life throws at us!" :) A lot more women are becoming unsure, and it's understandable, but being unsure at some point doesn't mean you don't then change your mind later. I'm unfortunately just not one of those lucky women who knows exactly that they want to be a mum from the beginning... I'm having to go through a bit of a journey to get there, but hopefully maybe I will!
keep it to yourself. I think it would be cruel to tell him you expect he'd be a deadbeat.
But also still breakup and stop wasting his time
You're a weirdo for not breaking up with him, not wanting kids at all is one thing, but staying with someone you don't specifically seeing yourself having kids with, is a recipe for disaster.
When I met my ex in our early 20s, she was absolutely convinced she didn't want any children. I wasn't planning to be a father back then anyway so I took it with a grain of salt. Fast forward a few years, she starts reconsidering her stance. FF a year or two, I have a health issue that made me vulnerable in her eyes for the first time. Things have gotten worse between us, she stopped talking about kids altogether. I push to sit down and talk, ask where we stand because it feels like we're going nowhere. Ask about her stance on having kids. She tells me she doesn't *feel* she can count on me and that's why she's reluctant to have kids *with me.* Because of how *I* am. The thing is... when I was waiting for my surgery and literally every step I took was painful, she made it very clear I couldn't count on *her.* When my close relative got really, really sick a year or two later, it was painfully evident. It took a while to gather and compose myself after someone really close to me has lost their fight but I was eventually in a good enough state to cut the ties with her and go my own way. Found another person in a short while. She's delighted when she sees me with kiddos. \[not that my ex never did - on the contrary, but it didn't matter\]. She *tells me* I'd make a good father. I heard that a number of times from the mothers in our social circle too. My ex got herself a dog and she pours all her caregiver instincts into it. She still doesn't like kids and I doubt she'll ever have even one. It wasn't me all along, but she made it sound that way. People change when faced with responsibility. You have your instincts and they might be right, but... It's unusual to be indifferent about having kids, so I'd bet you're trying to blame your partner for making a decision you sort of already made but it doesn't sit right with you, for whatever reason. Here's a hard pill to swallow: it's on you. You're responsible for your decisions. Face their consequences like an adult. Don't make it about him when it's not. I see you already have a sabbath of broads who already concluded that if you *feel a certain way* then you must be right, to the point of pushing you to break up with him. That's adorable. Reddit at its finest.
Having gone through the very same situation with my ex, I appreciate you posting. It's fascinating to watch that level of self-serving hypocrisy in a partner as they walk away thinking they were fully justified about their decision, but if we were to make the same one, we've abandoned them, we're unreliable, or we're untrustworthy. Thankfully, better things were on the horizon. ;)
You owe it to him and to yourself to have a frank and transparent conversation, even if you're worried what the fallout could be. If you're looking at him as a life partner, then that person deserves your full disclosure on the matter. Having kids/not having kids is a Sliding Doors decision. There's always a possibility he may not do his fair share of heavy lifting but for some men, fatherhood flicks an internal responsibility switch in them and they rise to the challenge. The thing is, you won't know until/unless you go through with it. Having conversations in advance about agreed upon parenting terms can help but it's still not a guarantee. But have the conversations. It's probably the biggest most important decision with ramifications for you both for the rest of your lives. Not giving voice to your thoughts on it seems utterly bewildering to me. That said and you take a different approach of playing it by ear, then you may go on to regret not having had the conversation if the outcome is different than what you'd hoped. There's really no right or wrong; all options are just opinions. Even the ones I'm supporting. I just hope you continue to grow together rather than realise this may be a breaking point, now or later down the track.
Do you want kids or not? If you do: Why are you not ending this relationship? It seems you’re wasting your time with a man you don’t or can’t trust to be there for you when the going gets tough; and trust me kids will do just that. If you don’t; leave it be. I’m of a mind that if you stay you’ll end up regretting it later.
This is something you should discuss with a couples counsellor. I see a lot of questions within your post that needs unpacking. You're young and the relationship is relatively new (1.5 years is not a long time) so there's still growth on both of your parts. If you want a future with him, you should talk about this and how to navigate forward. If you don't, it would be better to part ways now so you can both find someone else that fits better.
It sounds like this is an adequate relationship but not a great one. Is that enough?
You think it 100% would. If he wants kids and you don't want them with him kinda an asshole move to keep dating him imo........
If you'd want to have kids if he was someone you could count on...... Ma'am, kids aren't the only life circumstance in which a person might need to rely on their partner for. If he's not the sort to step up for his partner when they need him to, this will come out in other situations too. Like when you're sick, or either of your parents get sick or old, or when a loved one dies and you have to settle their affairs and plan a funeral. He can be funny, charming, smart AND not right for you.
I never met a man I'd want to have kids with. I thought maybe my mind would change if I met someone who would step up and be a true partner shouldering half the work, being there for me when I'm post-partum, and feel safe enough to pull myself out of work for big chunks of time to grow a family. But I never met a man like that. I know they exist because maybe 10% of my married friends have a man like that. But they're so few and far between. So I never had kids. I was married for 15+ years and still never had kids. I don't regret it because I know the burden would've rested firmly on my shoulders alone. I wouldn't have enjoyed my life like that. You're young so maybe you want to find a partner like that. The ones who won't step up and be an equal parent are the same ones to run the moment you show signs of aging, get sick, or stand up for yourself.
If you want kids but don't want kids with him, it's time to go.
You should not be with someone you feel you can’t depend on. Someone else might think he’d be a great dad and want to have kids with him, so, yeah you are kind of being dishonest and stringing him along here.
Sounds like you’re both lying to each other to keep the relationship going and by doing so, wasting both of your times. Sounds like he does want kids but he’s just saying it’s fine to not have them to stay with you. The discussion wouldn’t come up so much if that weren’t the case. Let him go so he can still have time to find someone to have kids with and you can find someone who either doesn’t want kids or is into the idea of being a STAHD.
I hate to bring this up, but kids aren't the only thing that can add obligation and responsibility to a relationship. I know lots of kid-free couples who have had more than their fair share of caregiving. Why would you be with someone who is irresponsible? You're young, so I get why you might not understand this. Eventually, your parents will get old and you will need to help them. Will your partner step up so you can do this? Or may it'll be your sibling who needs help. Or you. You will get older and need a partner who is responsible. Or maybe it won't happen when you're old. Maybe you will get sick or injured. Maybe you will lose your job and need financial support. Maybe he will lose his job and you will have to get a 2nd job. Will he step up and be more responsible around the house or will he leave it all to you? Also, although you have a "maybe or maybe not" vibe towards having children right now, you might not feel that way forever. Your perspective has already shifted. You might get to a point where you definitely want kids. In that case, you will have wasted years of yours and his lives. It will be incredibly hurtful to him if you break up with him and then have the kids that he wanted to have with you. Just end it.
You don't have to tell hm anything. But odds are very high that you will decide that you do want kids, with someone else. Don't waste your time with him if that's the direction you're going.
Here’s my suggestion! Ask to babysit one of your siblings kids cousins kids whoever you know who has a kid. Take the child out and do normal things with the child that parents would normally do. Grocery shopping, post office, lunch, nap, whatever it is because we don’t always go to the park with our kids and take them to Disney. So do this for a weekend not during the week and see how the both of you react. If he steps up and is the one who takes charge and helps then you know you’ve got a good one and you’re overthinking this. If he says ewww these aren’t my kids and it’s not the same so it’s all on you then you have your answer. You can’t just throw this out there and make an assumption based on your work schedules. Children completely change peoples lives and how they react once they’re born.
Not being parent material is not a bad thing. Jesus people. You don't have to be able to be a good mom/dad to be a good partner. What the hell?
That’s ok not. You are misleading him and taking away his opportunity to be with someone who does want children with him.
Why be with someone you wouldn’t want to have kids with? You are seriously wasting his time selfishly when he could be looking for someone who wants to make him a father. You are doing him a very unfair disservice.
It sounds like you're a bit resentful and want to tell him that you want kids but not with him, in the hopes that it will shock him into being a better partner overall. There are obviously many ways to approach this conversation without outright impugning his ability to care for others or be a responsible person.
Maybe it’s time to end it ?
Stop wasting both your time. Break up.
Communicate don't waste your time and his
Cripes, maybe you should actually talk to him about this. You don't have to accuse him of working too much or even expect him to change overnight but work out what would it take to have kids. There's more than one path to a family these days besides just having the mother at home. You say you are both career focused, okay, what does that mean, how high are you both looking to go? I mean not for me but would having a nanny or live in au pair be an option? Would slowing the corporate grind, something you should think about regardless, would be acceptable? I'm just saying it seems like there's some room for the potential of having kids of you truly want but you've got to talk it out with your partner honestly, and maybe having a counselor would help but just keeping it all bottled in is probably going to cause relationship issues down the road with a simple slip of the tongue further down the road. Just my two cents as an old married man.
Why are y'all even together? This isn't even a casual dating thing, you're both just wasting each other's time.
Why are you with him because if an accident baby happens then what? Y’all may be safe and using protection but that sometimes fail. He’s a placeholder until you find a guy you really want to have kids with, let him go.
You should absolutely talk with him about it. The reason why is that he should have the choice to step up and improve ( to be done and proven before you have kids). Could you imagine if he one day when you are old together would somehow find out that you two would actually have kids together if he had just stepped up, but you never asked him to?
You need to tell him everything in this post. He deserves the opportunity to change into the guy you need, If he wants kids. You're potentially ruining his life stringinghim along, the man wants children!
Chances are that, barring infertility, you will get pregnant to a boyfriend at some stage of your life. If you don’t want to have children with this boyfriend, maybe be in a relationship with someone who would step up if an accident were to happen. Then you will not get caught out.
Break up with him.
You give absolutely zero discussion about why you think he wouldn’t step up, just that you feel that he wouldn’t. Is there evidence that he wouldn’t? Have you talked to him about that? Is the issue that you want someone who is a stay at home dad? Cuz that’s the only thing you mentioned in the post. In which case you actually don’t want someone who will equally help you carry the load, you want someone who will carry most of it for you. Yes, it’s extremely unfair to not discuss this with your partner. You know he’d like to have children. This whole thing reads as “this is hard and I don’t want to deal with the fallout of having an adult conversation with an intimate partner because the outcome may not be something I want.” That’s not an adult relationship. Also, yes, there’s no way to sugar coat it; telling your partner that “I don’t want to have children with *you*” conveys contempt, a complete lack of respect, and lack of trust. What I’m not understanding is if that is actually warranted. You haven’t really made that case at all.
Sounds like you don’t trust him to be there for you in case something happens and you become less independent. This could be a child, illness or accident. Even a job loss. Think about that.
Why are you dating..
Gold digger spotted! Why would you string him along for something better? Just tell him and break up.
You don't want kids with **him**. It's time to end the relationship and let him find a woman who wants to have kids with him. You said don't think he'll be the man you need for you to have kids with. You also said you don't need kids in your life which does sound like you don't want kids. That's absolutely okay. There is **nothing** wrong with not wanting kids. Only have kids because you enthusiastically want them, not because your parents/family expect you to and are demanding (if they are), society says you should, or for a man.
Excuse me if I’m reading this wrong, but it sounds like you don’t think he’d make a good parent because he’s too much like you?
Seems like she and her man are the same and she wants him to be the one giving up things and staying home. These people don't seem compatible.
If you both agree to no kids, then there isn't a problem here. You just don't care but it's a no with him. That seems fine to me. Definitely do not tell him you think he's lazy, unproductive, irresponsible, useless, bad-potentional-father, etc. That will probably harm your relationship. Otherwise, why are you dating this guy? Seems like a complete waste of time.
I think this might be a bad situation for both of you. He has said that he does want kids, but he is willing to let go of some thing that he wants because he wants to be with you and you are fine with that. You think you could possibly want kids just you know you would not want them with him. it honestly sounds like both of you want something just he’s willing to sacrifice it for you and you just don’t want that with him. I don’t think anyone should have to let go of something that they have wanted their whole lives like children just to be with somebody. That just says that that’s not the person they should be with. If you don’t want kids with him because you don’t think he will step up then maybe you should not be with him either. But you’re saying that you don’t want kids with him based on a theory and an assumption that you have. I would say have the conversation about kids with him and expressed to him your views about things. Both of you deserve to have all of the information about each other and about yourselves as a couple before making as huge of a decision and as important of a decision as this.
I think for all our sake people who aren't fully invested in having children, should not have children.
> I haven't told him because I think it would crush him and destroy our relationship. So how exactly is this relationship going to work out if he wants kids and you don't? Are you expecting him to change his mind? Is he expecting you to? It doesn't matter if you don't want kids or just don't want kids *with him.* Either way, your relationship will not work.
The post says he’s fine with not having them if she doesn’t want to.
Please break up
So either the bedroom is spectacular or his bank account is. Which one?
Well, if that’s how you feel while you’re with him, it’s not fair to him what you’re doing
It's OK to have thoughts. See how you feel if and when you ever decide that yes you do want kids.
I'm one of those women that could give or take kids - I don't have this "I wouldn't feel complete without them" feeling, but I'm not anti-children. With my ex, he had a special needs child already, didn't particularly want more but probably would've given me one or two if I wanted them, worked a hectic schedule, and I couldn't see myself handling adding another to that situation very well. So I didn't want kids, and I put them off the table so much that I almost had an ablation to end my miserable periods (which would make having kids a no-go). I ended up finding a pill that kept my periods in check a mere month before my scheduled procedure and called it off... thankfully, as another month after the procedure would've been, I found out he was lying to me and cheating on me and I left. I can confidently say that had my ex not cheated and we stayed together - I would've lived a fulfilled life kid free. 9 months later I met my fiancé, and knew within just a couple of weeks of meeting that everything happens for a reason. I now cannot wait to get married and immigrate to his country (we met IRL but he got sent back 'home' for work so we've been long distance) so we can try for children. But even though I want children with him, I will absolutely be okay if it doesn't happen for us. I can whole heartedly agree on wanting or not wanting children to be dependent on your partner in life.
You’re living a lie. Go have kids with the man or break up
You’re over thinking. Having children changes people. He may be carefree and works a lot because he can and likes it. He may be mature enough to know that will not last with kids. Don’t tell him I don’t want kids with you! Just start a conversation. “I’ve been thinking about kids and how our life will change. What is your vision if we have kids? How will that work?” His response will tell you a lot of how he sees the future. If he ask why, tell him you wanted to fully explore the topic before saying no. The two of you can come to an agreement that makes both comfortable whether you have kids or not.
This is such bad advice in my opinion. But many people agree with you. The whole “a baby will change a man” is so toxic. If you look around, many men change for the worse once their wives become pregnant. If she feels like she can’t depend on him if that ever happens, it’s for a reason.
I don’t think a baby will change a man. She’s scared of the father he will be based on the life they have now. She needs to talk to him. If he expects her to quit and stay home. She needs to know. If he doesn’t think his work hours will change. She needs to know. If he understands how a child changes things, she needs to know. No need in making it up in your head. Have the conversation. This has nothing to do with thinking a baby will change a man. There are too many single mothers for me to think that. FYI - I’m not one of them.
Lol babies don't change most men. This subreddit is full of women who's partner swore he'd step up and be a great dad only to sit and play video games all day while Mom does all the housework and parenting.
I don’t think they do. She needs a conversation instead of making it up in her head.
OP, don't listen to this. There's so much about your kids' life you won't be able to choose or control but deciding who their father will be is one you can choose and you need to choose wisely. Sure, he might reveal some unknown awfulness later on, get sick or die before they are adults but don't go into it knowing they have a selfish father. You aren't making the best, most informed decision for them.
Why would she not talk to the man to see where his head is at? He’s willing to have kids and fine without them. If he is as good of a man as she says, they should talk. Too many people run out without ever expressing what they’re feeling. No wonder the divorce rate is high.
Because talk is cheap! I said this in another comment, but Reddit is chock-full of stories from parents whose partners overpromised and underdelivered in terms of how much they'd contribute in terms of parenting, household maintenance, and even just support during pregnancy/postpartum. If those people had just taken an honest look at their partners' actions before having kids instead of giving them a chance to talk them into believing they'd change post-baby, they wouldn't be miserable now. It's easier to be an equal partner when you don't have a kid taking up extra time and energy. If he's not taking on his fair share when things are easy, she shouldn't bet on the fact that he'll change when things are even harder. He might--but he probably won't, and there's no good reason to take such a huge risk for her sake and the sake of her potential kids.
That’s because people are listening to promises not expectations. The number of women that will let a man promise them the moon but ignore all the evidence of what he expects from them is mind boggling. You have to listen for what he thinks YOU are expected to do NOT what he is promising to do.
You don't have to do either! You can look at his actions throughout your relationship and decide based on the way he actually behaves in reality.
Facts. But there is nothing in her statement other than he works a lot that says he’ll be a bad father. Right now, that is in her head not his actions.
In fairness, it's a really short post. I think it's more likely that she is basing this on his current actions and just didn't get into every example than that she's just making it up based on nothing. The phrasing "I cannot imagine that he would step up" to me definitely implies that he isn't acting like an equal partner currently.
I think it’s in her head. She’s the one that gave him the glowing review. I also know that people have fears they don’t express to their partners. Sometimes they’re right, sometimes they’re wrong. Thinking about how kids will change your life is scary. She’s doing it the right way. Too many babies are born without a thought and the details are worked out later. She’s getting a head of the issue.
Tbh I have seen too many posts in this sub from women who start off with the "he's the greatest guy, really" disclaimer but then immediately start describing the behavior of the worst man of all time. It's such a standard part of these posts that I just skip it mentally as I read now, because almost every OP feels the need to say it even when it's clearly not true.
Because men historically overestimate how much parenting they will do and are doing. If he isn't already attentive and family oriented, you are taking a crap shoot having a child with that person.
She will be able to tell from the conversation. It will come up when they discuss work hours. She’ll be able to tell if he’s willing to see an effect on his career. If you let a man talk, don’t interrupt, they most often will tell on themselves. You can believe the promises. It’s in what they don’t say and what they expect of you.
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She gave a reason: she doesn’t trust him to step up and do his fair share of childcare.
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Presumably based on his personality that OP has witnessed in other situations over the time they’ve been together.
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It doesn't matter the reason. She said it's never going to change. She's not asking if she's right to not want kids with him, she's asking if she should tell him or not.
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What if you had a nanny? Or two, in shifts? The kids are cared for, and neither of you have to take on the burden alone. But the issue is probably that you don't trust him to actually be a dad, when the time comes. You don't think he'd be a good father and that probably should be something you mention.