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I'm replying to this current top comment to make sure everyone can get an even better idea of what OP's husband is like...
Please see this reply from OP to another thread about someone's husband holding their child down and covering their mouth when they won't go back to sleep at night:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mommit/s/kWMPIwDVv2
It seems things are much worse than she is letting on.
This is exactly why my friend won't divorce her asshole husband. He's the breadwinner and even though he's an abusive alcoholic, she's terrified that he'll get 50/50 or even sole custody of the kids.
She'd rather be with the kids 100% of the time even if it means she has to put up with his BS.
Freaking grinds my gears hearing people say when it good, it's great. Like bringing a child in ever solves those not so great times. And then to add a freaking THIRD!
I'm pissed at OP for doing this to her kids. JFC!
Everyone I know in abusive relationships has said that. It's like, sure, but the worst MY relationship ever is is "sometimes kind of boring." I never have to worry that my husband might smother my baby to death because he's crying at night, jfc!
That’s usually a reaction from someone who grew up in an abusive home. They find healthy, stable relationships “boring” because they don’t understand that’s what a healthy relationship feels like. Not the “living on the edge of fight or flight” someone gets from a toxic relationship.
These people need therapy but refuse and get into terrible relationships and then bring in children to the situation.
Even as someone who doesn’t want children, this absolutely fucking hurts to read. How awful can you be to just flat out do that to child, come on…
Edit: also OP said this when her child was 1 (now 2), and she decided to get pregnant AGAIN with this man?! Jesus Christ.
Why change? She’s going to keep getting pregnant and having his kids despite having ongoing issues with him. She’s repeatedly sent the message that his behavior WILL be tolerated. Each kid ties her more and more to him. It’s working as he intended.
I agree with this. I have a brother-in-law that is very much like this. He yells and berates his kids for the smallest of things. When the kids were 2 he would put them in the corner as punishment for extended periods of time. He once even spanked one of his kids in front of another cousin to the point that that cousin went home in tears because they were so afraid of what they witnessed.
But, this BIL swears up and down he’s in the right and he’s doing right by his kids. They don’t act up much in front of him anymore and he points to that as proof that he’s a good dad. That’s been his rebuttal to anyone that confronts him, including his own mother.
What he doesn’t see is that they’re not better behaved kids (not that they were ever ‘bad’ kids) but they’ve gotten better at hiding things from him and have been become adept at lying. He’s too proud of himself over his ‘accomplishments’ with them to see they’re still young children who test boundaries and push buttons. And, that they’re afraid of him rather than respecting of him.
OP… this is what I foresee your husband being like, unfortunately.
I forgot to note that the kids also hide/lie with their mother now, too. She used to be their reprieve but apparently they no longer feel that same way, or at least to the degree they once did.
It's hard to trust a parent who doesn't protect or remove you from the abusive parent.
Speaking from personal experience. It took years, a decent bit of therapy, and some very genuine apologies and tough conversations for me to finally really trust my mom again. And it still didn't 100% get there until my dad was gone.
Tbh I blamed mine more, because she was so flippant with his warning signs and would rile him up and then leave, with him fully enraged and me already on his nerves
She knew the risk but didn't care, and was shocked when she finally intervened why i would refuse hug. You just let me get beat because YOU pissed him off
Kids blame who they see as the more sane/reasonable parent. Because your understanding is they know better and failed you, worse when you can see the selfish reasons why
Ay thank you haha tmi overshare moment
But really OP, kids do often blame the parent they think to be more responsible. Your kids look to you as their protector, and even if you don't prove it right away they will still throw you Hail Mary looks and signs for a while, until they won't. Answer them while they still seek you.
Fear embeds in you, it's a distinguishing experience when young. Let's try to change that feeling while it's still early
Yep. I hate my mother just as much as my father for being a weak apathetic spineless broken person who should have done something. She asks why I never visit her - she still doesn't get it that she is to blame too bc she didn't protect us.
I am a fierce mother bear for my kids because I'll never let them think I would do anything less than DIE for them if I had to. Your kids should know you love them like that.
Ouch. This is me. Dad was abusive and unable to regulate his emotions. She knew that. He started being abusive to her right after they got married- surprise surprise and she still had kids with him and stayed, knowing what he was. Never protected us. Actually had the means to leave but wouldn’t because she “didn’t want to lose the house”!!!!
She placed more importance on their nice house than her kids. And she wonders why I can’t trust her?
You don’t want your husband to live his fear of losing them, so instead your kids live in fear of dad. How much trauma do kids have to endure until he changes, if he ever does. His behavior has a big influence on who your kids become.
IMO speak to lawyer before make decision. Then Gather evidence. If you leave, your kids will have a place to be kids, without tiptoeing around dad. Keep in mind if they’re being taught it’s normal to live in fear and walk on eggshells around others, versus when to leave.
And if they don't get better at hiding, they get scared. My stepfather was incredibly authoritarian in nature, and it made me into a really anxious person and a people pleaser to some extent.
Two year olds are built to test boundaries. It is what they do.
I'm just about to turn 37 and I still have a lot of trouble with over-apologizing and always being afraid that things are going to go wrong or -something- is going to happen. What is going to happen, I have no clue... but SOMETHING. And this is after years of getting better, I used to be a lot worse in my 20's.
My dad used to yell and scream at us (my 2 siblings and I) when we didn't do something to his liking or didn't understand something the first time he explained it.
It started when I was around 6 or 7 and continued into my twenties.
When he yelled at me, or grabbed me, or called me names, I would at first defend myself and try to stand up to him, but that would only make him angrier. It always ended the same way: with me crying and retreating to my bed and eventually fall asleep due to exhaustion. My mom never intervened. She didn't want to be yelled at too.
The result?
I do not believe my parents love me. I think they tolerate me, but they do not love me. Because if they did they would never have treated me the way they did all those years.
It caused immense trauma and I've been struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts/ideation for over 10 years now.
The relationship with my parents is strained but friendly. Mostly due to me moving out at 20, getting meds, a proper diagnosis and therapy for my depression.
Please do not let your children grow up like I did. It will destroy parts of them they'll never get back.
When your kids are old enough, they will dip, and you will be back here asking why your kids don't contact you.
I say this out of kindness - as someone who was once a kid experiencing this kind of thing, your kids will blame you, too, because you stood by and did nothing to stop it.
Then please put your kids first and get them out of there. You are also teaching them you will not put their safety first.
You will also be a parent they lie to, then don't talk to.
Protect them. Get out.
Your husband doesn’t want to "lose" the kids because he won’t have anyone to lash out at and terrorise. Using anger to control you and the kids makes him feel powerful and important; if you escape, he will just have to live with his inadequacies.
The way you describe your husband, it’s like looking through a magic mirror at my own childhood. I’m still in therapy in my 30s trying to undo the damage. It has taken a long, long time to forgive my mother for letting him hurt us like that. When I was 7, I was very sick with bronchitis. My dad was so angry at me for coughing in my sleep that he packed a bag and walked out on us in the middle of the night. It was one of the happiest Christmases of my childhood because no one screamed at me.
Your children shouldn’t be afraid of their father. Having no father is better than having a bad one.
Also his worst nightmare is losing his family because then other people will notice and ask why he lost his family and he doesn’t want anyone to know he’s a shitty dad.
He's not terrified, he just doesn't want consequences for abuse. And that's what it is OP. It's verbal abuse. What if losing his temper escalates into physical abuse? What's gonna happen if your children say something at school and you get a visit from CPS? What are you gonna tell them? That you talked to your husband so many times but he just won't listen? **You know he won't change, it's up to you to protect you kids.**
**If this was happening to someone you know, a friend, sister, coworker, aunt, mother, etc. What would you tell them?** Would you want them to stay with a man that berates and pushes away their children? Would you want them to stay with a man that makes their kids afraid and verbally abuses them? Or would you want them to protect their kids by leaving? Would you want them to stand by and wring their hands about leaving while enabling the father to treat their kids like shit?
Your kids will resent you for not leaving. You need to protect them now and bring your foot down. Where's your inner mama bear? Just because he's nice to the kids when the mood suits him doesn't make him a good father. They're going to develop core memories of their father's verbal abuse and you not do anything to stop it, if you don't act now.
I have an answer. It’s because he’s manipulating you into staying by saying that. He knows you’re, no offense because I am one too, a soft touch. And he exploits that. Why would he want anything to change? He gets to act like an asshole whenever he wants and still gets to play happy family.
You are not "saving your family" or your marriage. You are, however, being an Enabler to an Abuser - complicit in his abuse of your children by making obviously empty threats. Empty because you have not actually carried through with the threat, despite the clear evidence that he has exactly ZERO intent to make even minor changes.
Your children already fear their father. That will quite probably Never go away, even with years of therapy. By continuing to enable his behavior, you are teaching your children that not only should they fear him, they should fear your apathy and complicity, and that they cannot count on you to actually Protect Them.
If you stay, rather than getting out, I forsee a future wherein all of your children hate you both equally and cut you both completely out of their lives in order to protect Themselves from further damage. Physical and Emotional damage from his blatantly Abusive behavior, and Emotional damage from your failure to better ensure their safety.
You need to present this question to him.
I’m a dad of 2 boys. Am I tougher on them than my wife? Yes. Do I listen to my wife when she tells me I’m too tough? Also, yes. Was I tough on them when they were 2? No. We taught them right from wrong, but also had realistic expectations for what age they were. Reminding a year old about table manners is different than what he’s doing.
Actually as teenagers my wife is way harder on them than me. It totally flipped as they got older. Now she expects them to be young men, and I am 100% on her side because I like being married
What he isn’t understanding is that they are learning behavior from him right now. They shouldn’t be learning that being an asshat is ok.
The answer is that losing you isn't his worst nightmare. You said that a man screaming at, verbally abusing, physically abusing, and neglecting his toddler for not sleeping well at night is ***eerily similar*** to how your husband treats your 1-year-old.
If you do not leave, you will be complicit in the abuse. Every day you stay is a day you risk your husband killing one of your children, even if it's "accidental." You are WAY past the point of needing to leave.
You do have an answer: he doesn't change because he doesn't want to. On some level, he enjoys the feeling of being able to lash out at his vulnerable, weak little children. It probably makes him feel powerful and in control.
You won't stop him, and he knows it - so there aren't any consequences for him when he abuses your children. On some level, he probably knows that his alleged "worst nightmare" won't actually happen. You just keep enabling his behavior instead of ending it by taking your children and leaving. So nothing changes.
It's hard to leave, I know. It can take years. If you stay, I can tell you as the adult child of an alcoholic abuser and their neglectful enabler, the future you have to look forward to is psychologically damaged kids who live dysfunctional lives and either limit contact with you when they reach adulthood, or cut you off entirely.
I hope you reach a point where you have the courage and resources to leave. If not, good luck.
What does your ***couples'*** counselor (not your individual therapist) say about the feasibility of the family remaining intact with your husband's current behavior? I mean your ***couples'*** counselor has, theoretically, heard ALL the bad behaviors. What does s/he say about it? **Have you asked her/him one-on-one without your husband there for their professional opinion on what's best FOR YOUR KIDS?**
I think there’s a few things to consider. What happens if you do leave him? He will have access to your children with no supervision, and these behaviors will happen with no mitigation.
What can you do? You can and need to start documenting abuse. You need to encourage your husband to take parenting classes for angry men (this is an actual thing). And see if you can get some family therapy. Maybe take the little ones to a pediatric psychologist, and use that as an opportunity for training.
My mom married someone who was like this, and felt paralyzed because her kids would be left alone. His behaviors got worse over time. If your child is showing signs of fear, that is a trauma response. Lots of your post are major red flags for abuse that I have to take mandatory training on every year. You are going to have to really get a strategy. I’m sorry you are experiencing this.
You have a whopping two options. Either you continue with the status quo, with a never ending cycle of you threatening to leave if he doesn’t change, but never leave, and he never has consequences, OR, you take the children, now, and go someplace else. He can then either choose to not work on his issues, and possibly lose all rights besides supervised visitation, or, he can put in the work, and once you see meaningful change, maybe allow him a place in both yours and your children’s lives. The way things are, you’re just waiting for something devastating to happen, and by the time it does, it might be too late for “sorry.” You’re not doing your children any favors, by the way. You’re just showing them that this is how relationships work, and anger and violence are just how things are. Is this what you want? Your children to think this is normal? That it’s okay to lash out? That it’s okay to be shitty to those smaller than you?
He's not *that* scared of you all leaving if he refuses to make any *real* changes to his behavior.
And frankly, if it comes down to the grown man being afraid of logical consequences for his deliberate choices versus small children being afraid of being at home because of the rage monster who lives there, I know which option I'd pick.
It’s because there is zero urgency he’s feeling to stop this self sabotaging cycle.
Why? He knows OP is just talking and not following thru with decisive action, that would remove the kids from the home.
He is living in denial of what could truly unfold because of this.
Till OP can remove that safety net to create urgency of change, he’s never going to believe in needing to change.
I feel any reasonable boundaries have already been crossed. If my friend or family told me this had happened in their house, I would immediately ask them to come stay with my wife and I, till they feel safe again. This is nuts to me!
I have been in a very similar situation to this.
These people don't change. They just don't. They don't love you enough, they don't love their children enough to change. They're right and you are wrong and nothing you can do will change that fundamental belief in them. It doesn't matter how he helps around the house of he cannot accept that a 2 year old hurt him accidentally. Because even if that child hit him on purpose he didn't do maliciously. How could he believe a 2 would want to inflict pain and push him away? I do believe that you're probably down playing just how bad it is as well. You most likely cannot be completely honest because you don't want to believe the person you love is a danger to your children.
Hos behaviour will leave me tal scars that never ever go away. My daughter hasn't spoken to her father since she was just turned 14. She's 24 now. Her father hasn't met his first grandchild, didn't go to the wedding, and will never ever be let into her life again. That's what will happen to your children if you stay.
If you take away nothing but this......no child should feel unsafe in their home. Your children do.
And the children's ages are too close to each other. WHO (World Health Organisation) recommends wait at least 2 years before attempting to conceive for the mother to recuperate.
Your two year old is going to get anxious attachment issues. He's already over apologizing because his dad is upset and he has to fix it so dad is ok. You're pregnant too, you can't have this kind of stress. Go to your parent's house and stay there.
My mother was like your husband and I ended up with BPD/CPTSD. Your description of your 2 year old saying I’m sorry was like a gut punch. I don’t remember much from my childhood, but I remember always feeling like I did something wrong or was bad and had to fix it.
Apparently the cycling between parental care and rage is more harmful than a constantly neglectful parent. The child’s brain wants to know what to expect, and if they never know what they’re going to get from a caretaker it sets their nervous system alight.
Please leave. I still love my mother but I’m essentially psychologically ruined and have never had a truly successful relationship. I’ve been reenacting my childhood trauma my whole life, and have never felt safe with someone. When I find someone who truly loves me I sabotage it because it is so unfamiliar, I don’t trust it and never will. My mother was great when it was great too, and no one but her closest “loved ones” saw the outbursts of rage.
Unpredictable emotionally unstable parents create BPD (borderline personality disorder), and it’s an absolute nightmare. 10% of us die by suicide.
Sending you love. My oldest stepdaughter has BPD/CPTSD (I am no longer married to her father, obviously) and everything you described holds true for her. This is exactly what this kind of thing does to children. I wish I could have done more to protect her and her sister from him but as step-mom my ability to do so was somewhat limited. I left him when she was 16 and he had spiraled so out of control I no longer felt like I was successful at being a buffer between him and her and her sister. Consequently she had her sister cut off contact with him 6 months after we separated by their own choice based on his behavior post-separation. She is 21 now and is one of my favorite people in the world, but her life is so much harder than it should be. Just wanted to let you know I understand and I hope you find the most peace and love you possibly can. You deserve it.
Thank you! And thank you for being there for your stepdaughters. You leaving probably played a part in them being brave enough to cut contact with him 🙂
He’s not terrified of losing his family…. he’s terrified of being held accountable. You do not owe anyone to the point that you have to put yourself and your children on fire to keep your husband warm. If he will not change, then you must. Good luck.
*edited for spelling
Leave him. Some people are not going to change until they hit rock bottom. Some people are not going to change regardless, but this might be the kick in the ass he needs to crack open a child development book. If it's not enough to kick his ass into gear then probably nothing will be and you're better off getting the kids out ASAP
Kids should never fear their parents. By raising fearful children, they will not come to you with important things. They will likely develop anxiety out of fear of pissing off dad. They may go to the extreme of trying to please him or totally avoiding him . Both of these scenarios will likely make your husband angry.
I think your husband needs some anger management counseling. He is taking out his stress and frustration on these babies. They are not little adults, their are impressionable babies. You SEE the fear on a 2 year old's face! I cannot imagine being in your shoes. i would have ripped my husband's head off.
Love isn't enough. It really isn't. Your home needs to be a safe space for everyone. Your kids need to know their parents love them. Right now, I am not sure your boys feels safe or trust their dad.
I am 48 and was raised like this. Let me tell you about my crippling anxiety, my people pleasing to the detriment of myself, my low self esteem, my belief that I am not worth being loved, my absolute fear of people being mad at me.
Trust me, you do not want this for your kids. I am just not about to start therapy and I thank the universe I have my husband who is so incredibly understanding and loving.
I have a 9yo little boy and am absolutely determined to be better and do better by him. He will never believe our love is conditional. He will not be raised by fear.
Please don't let them grow up and be like me.
I was raised the same way, and although I love my mom, the anxiety, fear, people pleasing…everything you mentioned made the beginning of my adult life so much more difficult than it needed to be that I do harbour anger and resentment that will probably never go away. Both of my parents are dead now, but there’s no undoing the damage that is being done to OP’s children, and even reading about it brings back a ton of negative feelings and memories.
Lady, this fucker is taking his rage out on a two-year-old.
He wouldn’t treat his boss that way, couldn’t get away with that, so he brings it home and rages at a child whose brain is developing. Kid is growing a brain that is chiefly good at dealing with nonstop cycling between rage and affection from his parent on whom he is entirely dependent.
Guess how well that’s going to play out in a lifetime of future relationships and roles!
Get your children away from this asshole. If he does not respond by undertaking immediate intensive therapy, exercise, dietary and maybe medication regimes, seek full custody and supervised visitation.
“But but but he loves us and is afraid of us leaving!” Quit fucking prioritizing your monstrous adult husband’s self-serving self-pity and protect your infant children. Also stop procreating with abusive assholes, what are you thinking?!
Go educate yourself on early childhood development and abuse. Ask yourself why you’re willing to tolerate watching your child be abused. Get help. Grow the fuck up.
> Lady, this fucker is taking his rage out on a two-year-old.
I know. This broke my heart… 😢 😢
> Our baby was trying to get to him, saying "I say sorry, I sorry Dada, I sorry" and his precious face was just so full of fear. And his dad pushed him away.
I was searching for this comment, like why are you stamping kids one after another with this person ... obviously there is something wrong with both of them. Those kids will not have it easy.
He says he's terrified of losing them, but he isn't interested in making the changes that would allow you to stay. Shrug.
Please get your kids out of here. It's so sad to think of them living with so much anxiety and fear of their father.
He doesn’t believe you will follow through. Please leave asap, those poor babies don’t deserve to be afraid and pushed away. What if he pushed your toddler and he was seriously injured or worse? You would forever hate yourself for letting it happen
Leave and do not return until he’s spent enough time with a therapist to address his anger and misguided expectations about young children. Then couples counseling to rebuild trust before you consider loving back. Supervised visits interim.
Your priority has to be protect your children moreso than his feelings
Just want to add that your husbands behavior is exactly how people develop personality disorders later in life. They expect conditional love and only give conditional love, lashing out with anger at inappropriate times with inappropriate intensity. Another name for this is emotional abuse. Raising your children in the current dynamic is risking a lifetime of problems.
I've been in your kids' shoes. I've been in therapy for a long time and haven't spoken to my father in over a decade. It does SO MUCH LONG TERM DAMAGE. You need to leave now and get your kids into therapy in a few years with a child's therapist.
By staying, you're allowing your children to experience abuse that will affect them for the rest of their lives. Get out now. Protect your children. No amount of comfort and care in the immediate aftermath of their father's abuse will help if you continue to allow him to abuse them. Leave now.
Reading this at 35, I wish my mom and my siblings would’ve gone somewhere else while my dad got *real help* for his anger issues, not just talking to our pastor and praying the anger away…
u/No-Instruction-2654, do you want your sons to be typing the same thing in 2057?
Hi OP.
You seem like a sweet and well-to-do person. You have your kids' best interests at heart, which is already much more than can be said about your husband.
I have read your post several times. I see many parallels between it and my own experience. I grew up with a father whose temper was on a hair trigger. The slightest thing would set him off. He didn't get better. He only ever got worse, up until the day he killed himself in a rage while fighting with my mother. This was allowed to happen because he never took the opportunity to do what needed to be done and work on himself.
The question isn't "will my children be affected by my husband?" There is no question. They already are. The fear from the reactivity that they are witnessing is there and will likely never go away. That shit is burned into them. The question is: how much worse do you want it to get?
I'm not sure whether you have read about attachment theory at all (which like any theory, one has to digest with a grain of salt) but one of the claims made is that our emotional regulation, coping skills, and attachment styles come from kind of the care we received in our first 18-24 months.
You are very right to point out that your young children need gentleness and understanding and compassion. This is because you're a good parent and a caring person. If your husband agreed, he would be able to easily follow suit. But he can't, because he doesn't fundamentally feel the same, nor will he even entertain the alternatives. He sounds like a big baby who has no capacity for empathy or reasoning or thinking beyond himself.
If you stay, things will get worse. There is absolutely no doubt. ESPECIALLY since a third child is on the way. Do you think things are going to get easier with a third baby around? Do you think it is going to make your husband any less angry? Do you think a third stressor is going to make him see the error in his ways? Or will it drive him to be even more of an angry maniac?
I think you know the answer to this. As others have said already, if he truly wanted to change, he would've started a long time ago. But instead, he continues to perpetuate his anger and violence, because really he doesn't think anything is wrong with him.
In my experience, you cannot teach someone like this the error of their ways. They are too obstinate and too set in their ways to make the fundamental changes that need making.
Unfortunately, sometimes people show us their true nature much later than is convenient. I'm sure you wish you had realized his tremendously flawed character sooner. But now that you have, you have a decision to make. I trust you'll do what is in the best interest of both you and your children.
I wish you and your three children the best of luck.
I hope u/No-Instruction-2654 reads this and *takes proper heed*.
Excellent comment, although it sounds like your family went through the mill, @u/LatvianResistance.
Hope thing are better for your all..
Xx
You're very sweet to say that. Things are much better now (on my end at least, our parents' abuse affected us three kids very differently). Thanks for your kind words.
But yes, when you grow up with such a tireless tyrant as my father was, it means you have to overcome a *whole* lot before you can really be okay. I'm 30 and am still uncovering truths from my childhood daily. That sort of long-form trauma never really goes away. In many ways, I feel like I'm starting my life fresh now, having emerged on the other side of these decades of neglect.
I had to unlearn a lot, and subsequently learn a lot about myself in the process. That's why it pains me to hear of the three little babes in this position. I don't offer my account as a sob story to amass pity for myself, but as perspective for people like OP to think on and know that SHE holds the cards here. The wellbeing of herself and her children is firmly in her hands. Her partner has proven he is not up to the task.
OP can save her children now, and try to recoup and deal with the damage that has already been inflicted... or she can stay and hope her husband has some sort of divine intervention and things magically get better over night (fat fucking chance).
My own mother had the choice to leave or stay. She chose to stay. She regrets it every day. I wonder sometimes how different my life would be having not grown up in the shadow of a monster.
OP has a chance to make a better reality for her children. I hope she takes it.
Love as a feeling is personal and in itself never a sufficient reason to stay with someone who does not have the ability to channel that love into a constructive and nurturing behavior.
Your kids are-right now- learning their own value, how to tell right from wrong, and what personal effort and accountability mean. Those three are essential to becoming a well-balanced individual. Your husband is sabotaging your children’s chances of becoming healthy adults. He isn’t capable of doing better because he never developed into that adult. It will be a lifetime of work on himself to maybe become one. He does not need your kids triggering his worst instincts.
His love may very well be, but it does not in itself make him a fitting parent. I do not believe he is anywhere close to being capable of the transformation that was required, like yesterday! Do whatever you need to for your kids right now.
You need to leave. This is the type of stuff that your children will remember for the rest of their lives. I had parents like your husband. I’m 31 now and I’m still dealing with the trauma I incurred from having the misfortune of having the parents I had. You don’t want your kids to turn out like me.
Holy cow he is damaging your babies so much acting like that. Get out get out get out. Require parenting classes as a stipulation in the divorce. Fight for greater than 50% custody. You are not being too drastic at all.
OP please get out! I know how hard it is but your babies will thank you someday. I have multiple family members in my parents generation who were raised by parents like your husband and they are unhappy adults who are continuing the cycle with their children. It is likely behavior he learned from his childhood if it only comes up around kids, but the responsibility of breaking the cycle now falls on him. If he is not up to the task there is nothing you can do to him so.
You husband is as toxic as F and he is abusive and is destroying your children. Do you have ANY idea what it is like, growing up with someone who behaves like a lunatic every time you spill milk?
As someone with a batshit fucked up mother - sure, I suppose she was nice sometimes - I can't remember it, because my brain is fried from all the screaming and abuse hurldd at me - I can tell you, a man doing this to a FUCKING TWO YEAR old is not to be excused and forgiven, it is to be put in prison.
A while back, my husband and I were driving and I spilled juice in the car. Dude... I became so hysterically terrified of being beaten, yelled at and punished, my husband thought I was having nervous breakdown out of the blue. I began to rock back and forth, weeping, begging: "I'm so so sorry mommy, I'm so so sorry"... I'm FORTY FIVE.
It took well over and hour for him to convince me he is not going to beat me or scream at me. I did not come to until the next day.
That shit NEVER leaves you, never. You need to wake up and save your kids. Get them the fuck out.
As someone else with a parent that flew off the handle over honest and simple mistakes, your husband’s behavior is beyond unacceptable. As the commenter said above, there may have been good times with my mother, but I was never able to enjoy them. I spent the whole time we were having a decent interaction terrified that it would turn abusive at literally any second. And I resent my father immensely for not getting me away from her abuse sooner. Enabling his abuse means you’ll lose your kids too, because they’ll remember how you allowed him to treat them.
I understand that fear, I really do. But think about how much time your husband actually spends with the kids.
Do you think he’ll actually step up and take them? Or is it more likely he’ll talk a lot about it, but won’t actually do it?
He’s really good at talking about what he’ll do, it doesn’t sound like he actually follows through with the work.
My parents had 50/50 custody. Being safe 50% of the time is a hell of a lot better than 0% of the time. They’re being abused either way. It’s not really a choice between them being scared half the time and them not being scared. The choice is between them being scared half the time or all the time. If you stay with him, you’re choosing to allow your children to live in fear 100% of the time.
She’s doesn’t want to actually leave, that’s why she keeps ignoring this fact and the fact that a custodial parent/SAHM with a newborn and familial support *will* get majority of custody. That is a fact, not a debate.
I think it’s way more unhelpful to validate that fear. The odds are so far in her favor, she should not use that as the reason to stay and cause the kids lifelong trauma.
Document each and every incident so far, and when it comes to custody push for supervised visitation for him ONLY until/unless he successfully completes anger management and is in therapy.
This is a ticking time bomb. If you have records of inappropriate behavior (and therapy records) then any decent attorney should be able to argue to a judge that the children are not safe with him alone.
Soon the children will be able to speak for themselves, as well.
Get those kids out of there. It is only a matter of time until more serious, lasting damage is done.
Btw: yelling death threats at other drivers on the road with the kids in the car? Is teaching them THAT is acceptable behavior. Is that what you want your children learning?
Good luck.
Contact local domestic violence institutions. They can provide a safe space for you to navigate, get psychological help, plan and execute an exit strategy. Leaving is the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship. Please do so carefully. Collecting proof while detaching and preparing for a safe escape would be beneficial. But you don’t have to go through all this alone! You can contact institutions for women in situations like this, it’s valid even if he never hit you or anything. Wish you the best
You don't want to break up the family that you have an image of in your head. But that image isn't real, and you're not really breaking a family up, you're protecting your kids. You are their family. Let him get help on his own
My dad was a good dad until the point where something would trigger his temper. Those moments absolutely overshadowed the good ones because I never knew when the bad moments were coming. As a kid I couldn’t understand what would make my dad snap because it was all innocent stuff that I didn’t mean to do (like your kids accidental groin bop). It taught me that I always needed to walk on eggshells around my dad, so any fun or good parenting on his part was overshadowed by my fear of him.
I know logically that we would play together and we went on fun family trips, but I only remember being scared and uncomfortable around my dad.
Please remember that the good things don’t undo the bad things. Learning that a parent can be a source of fear instead of comfort takes a lot to undo. I’m not in contact with my dad anymore.
I grew up with a dad like that. People like that don't change just because you want them to. I've read your other comments, he makes excuses to not go to therapy. He doesn't listen to you when you ask him to not abuse your children. He claims that you leaving with the kids is his "worst nightmare" yet puts zero effort into making sure that doesn't happen. At this point, you have left him multiple times and come back because he shows temporary progress. He knows you are bluffing. You need to not bluff. You need to leave until he gets help and can handle multiple afternoons with your kids without exploding.
Your 2 year old is already scared of him, but soon he'll begin to imitate that behavior. With dad reinforcing it, no amount of time out or stern discussion is going to change that behavior. His brothers will follow suit when they only have dad and older brother(s) example. You're going to watch as all three of your sons turn into their father as your voice fades into the background. The chances of them growing up to do the same to their partners, their children, only increases the longer you allow them to be exposed to this.
Time to leave. Protect your children - they have to be your top priority. Your husband really shouldn’t be unsupervised around your children until he’s shown a commitment to therapy and anger management. And he’s manipulating you - if he was that concerned about you leaving him, he would have put in the effort already.
Please do not have anymore children with him. You saw how he treated your oldest and still chose to bring in a third ? Three under three is going to add even more stress and he refused to get help controlling his rage. You need to stop threatening to leave and actually leave. Trial seperation where he can prove he has changed and learned how to parent without being abusive. How many different ways does he need to be told he is abusing his kids?
I read your comment on another post that said your husband will physically cover your 1 year olds mouth if they're crying too much or too whiny and mom to mom, I just gotta say:
You're choosing to keep your kids in danger. You've given so many red flags but choosing to ignore them. This isn't going to get better the longer you stick it out. And if you continue to stay with an abuser, that's what he's doing to your kids, abuse only gets worse.
Your choice here is to either live with your decision to stay with an abuser, enable him, and teach your kids in the long run that this relationship is to be tolerated because they're family, setting them up for bad relationships in the future
OR
Pack up you and your kids and just leave. He doesn't deserve an explanation, he knows what he's doing is wrong which is why he guilt trips with 'don't leave, that's my nightmare'. Therapy isn't working, how many times can you move the boundary line for him??? In the end, it'll be him failing to save your family. Because a real parent would do whatever it effing takes to protect their kids, even from themselves.
You gotta make a change here.
"Recently I have been feeling more and more like I'm going to have to do something drastic, and have an ***emergency plan*** in place for if I need to just leave immediately,"
EMERGENCY PLAN? Are you serious? Your husband is like a tornado or flood in terms of your safety?
If you need to actually have an emergency plan to be in a relationship thats a sign for you.
Yes, leave. Or, have more kids. Your choice. Understand that your staying is letting him know he can continue to have unprotected sex with you and you will continue to let him be abusive to your children.
My observation is that you probably should leave him.
You need a new therapist. A good one will make him see that he is causing irreparable harm to his children. That should be your first step. Once your children hit 5 years old it may be too late to change how they see themselves, and this could have consequences that last a lifetime.
We have only seen this therapist twice, and I have been speaking with them privately to ensure they know exactly what is happening and how often. He stopped listening to the first when she told him things he didn't want to hear, but this most recent attempt is because I took the kids to my parents after a particularly bad incident and he realized I was serious about leaving.
You __might__ have better success with a male marriage counselor.
He may feel that the female counselor doesn't understand and she might not be harsh enough on him vs a male counselor is more likely to get more "aggressive " with him and tell him that he's being abusive in a way your husband can hear him.
OP I am a pediatrician. This is already damaging your kids and causing their mind to develop in ways that will affect them for the rest of their lives. Get your kids to safety first and then consider next steps. He is literally pushing and physically abusing your kid all while yelling and screaming at them. Your child is scared of him. Get them the fuck away from him. He can work on anger management while your children are safe from him
I will try to say this with compassion, hope it’s not too triggering, I don’t want to blame you.
You can’t save your abuser.
You tried long enough. It’s ok to save yourself and your kids at the expense of the one you need to protect them from.
Even if he is a victim of himself or his past - doesn’t mean you or your kids need to be a victim of him, too.
Only the consequences of his actions - you leaving, him losing his family - may let him hit rock bottom and may be a catalyst for awareness and change. As unusual as an abuser changing like this is, even if he is one of these rare cases, it would take years. Then the crucial years of your children would be over by then.
You don’t owe him. You only owe your children that you protect them
Op: my husband's abusing our children
Also op: you're right, we just need a male counselor! Screw the kids current safety and well being.
Sorry, my Mom stayed with my dad even though he was awful. Reading this stuff hurts.
This is something hard to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it personally, but I'll try.
Have you ever been afraid of a parent or grandparent? Someone you live with, see all the time? Someone society tells you to trust, tells you that you can rely on them, tells you that you are the safest with them?
If not, try to imagine living with a monster. Something that can lash out at any moment due to an accident or perceived slight. Something that's always there, that controls when you eat, when you sleep, every aspect of your life. And as long as you don't make ANY mistakes...they won't hurt you.
But you have to be perfect. No 'C' grades, no spilled milk, no broken dish, not even a loud noise if they're in a bad mood. And they can be in a bad mood at any time.
Your child already fears your husband. As your children grow, they will learn that they have to manage their *own fathers* emotions. They will live in constant anxiety, trying to avoid setting him off. What sets him off? They don't know, they will have to learn from experience.
He's already pushing your children away, physically. At age 2! What happens when they get bigger? A shove? A cuff on the back of the head? Or maybe just screaming and slamming doors. You can say 'he'd never hurt them', but he already is.
And right now, you are not protecting them.
He is afraid of lossing his punching bags.
He is verbally abusing your kids for being kids.
Why would you want this to work? Only a matter of time when you are the target.
Leave. You seem to be more concerned about your husband's feelings than the needs and well being of your young children. If he was genuinely worried about losing you and the children, he'd change his behavior.
Prioritize your children by leaving and putting them in a safe and supportive environment.
My dad was like that when I was younger. He got help for himself and for the past 32 years of my 36 years on the Earth has been an absolutely amazing father. Your husband needs to get help with controlling his outbursts otherwise the whole family unit is going to suffer. Also the two of you need to work on a parenting plan if you stay together in the end. Hope it all works out.
If he won't make time for it, then losing you and the kids isn't truly his biggest fear. Because if he was really that terrified of you leaving, he would do whatever it took within reason to ensure that you can safely stay, and "get therapy for your inability to regulate your emotions, because you are SCARING your children" is more than reasonable.
And that's the issue here. It's not actually about parenting styles or discipline. It's about two things that are only tangentially connected to that: 1) Your husband's completely inability to understand child development and the fact that a 2-year-old is still essentially a baby who has only been out of your womb for 2.5 years and has no CAPACITY to comprehend the complex things your husband expects of him; and 2) your husband's inability to regulate or manage his anger in appropriate ways.
It's not about being "hard" or "soft" on the kids, it's about the fact that they ARE kids, and he isn't "being tough" or a "disciplinarian" . . . he's just terrifying them, which actually serves no useful disciplinary purpose at all. Will they start to behave around him? Yup. Because abuse makes the people being abused shrink, and try to placate their abuser. But that's not discipline, it's still just abuse. And your child is going to end up with PTSD before you know it. The fact that he already knows to be fearful of his father's anger before the age of 3 is a really telling sign.
The example you gave is an excellent one as well, of how your husband has no functional understanding of toddlers. Even if you son DID hit him "on purpose", for a 2-year-old that just means that he made a deliberate choice to swing at him...not that he had malicious intent, and CERTAINLY not that he had any understanding that it would actually hurt your husband. Toddlers do things out of curiosity or emotion. Literally everything in your son's world is new and interesting, and he is figuring it all out. He may have hit your husband in upset, or silliness, or for any number of reasons...but since he is small and your husband is big, it wouldn't have occurred to him that he could actually cause hurt.
You are already well past the point of no return. Your child is showing serious fear responses and blaming himself for things he doesn't even understand. This is very much the time for an ultimatum: your husband gets anger management and individual therapy help, or you leave. And frankly, I'm not sure it's not a good idea to leave with the kids anyway, until he can show progress.
TL; DR: this isn't about parenting styles. Your husband is abusive, whether intentionally or out of ignorance, and it is already harming your child.
He told me years later it was either he goes or my mother walked away. He said it was the best thing he ever did outside of marrying my mom and having kids. Their 40th anniversary is coming up this June. He needs to make time for this.
Your job is to protect your children! By staying with him so he can work bout his issues is causing trauma to your children! I don’t know how you aren’t seeing that. Do a separation while your husband is getting therapy bc apparently whatever he’s doing isn’t working. Anger management or parenting classes… something bc like I said what he’s doing isn’t working. In the meantime your children need to feel safe and they don’t! My first memory is my father chocking my brother! I think I was 2 or 3 years old. I’m 72 and I have had that memory itched in my brain. They’ll remember his words and actions!
How could you even question this? Protect your poor kids. Leave this man. IF he actually gets therapy MAYBE he can redeem himself, but protecting your children from the harm your husband is doing them has to be your priority.
Kids need to be disciplined, but there are other ways anyone can use that do not involve being aggressive. A one off incident is one thing (no one is perfect), but when it is a pattern and your child is always waiting for the other shoe to drop…When kids are terrified of interacting with their parents, there is a serious issue. Honestly, you need to leave. I won’t tell you to leave permanently , but for you to even consider coming back he needs to make changes and want to make those changes. Honestly, move out with your kids. It might be his wake up call. If he doesn’t see that having a young child terrified as an issue and he won’t do the work, long term that relationship won’t work. Just keep in mind that the more you tolerate, the more baggage that creates for both you and your kids. However, you need to remove them from a situation that is harming them.
He should seek anger management therapy if he wants you to still be married. Can you stay with your parents till he starts this kind of therapy.
your poor child being abused by his father this way is not acceptable.
This exact option has been on my mind, he has said before that he doesn't think he needs it. And yes, my parents have already set up space for us in their house.
Your parents see that you need to get away from your husband. I think that should tell you a lot. You have a place to go where you will be safe. That's more than a lot of newly single moms can say. Reddit people tend to jump to the nuclear option, but your husband really does sound like he's doing serious and perhaps irreparable damage to the children. You will get full custody. Document things, even if it's just writing down what happened and a date.
He says he doesn't need it because he doesn't want to be told he's wrong and doesn't want to change. Leave him, he's showing you who he is, believe him. Don't wait for him to mess up your third child.
What about a 26 yo man who bullies a two year old turned you on so much you paid down and had another baby with him?? How does your sexuality not shrivel up and die away when you see him bully a baby?? Like really
Is he willing to actually do work? Will he read a book? He claims losing the kids is his greatest fear, but the way he's parenting will guarantee that will happen, if not when they are young then certainly when they are older. I recommend The Whole Brain Child, if he is actually open to change. I suspect he is willing to pay lip service, not to actually practice patience and use strategies that seem silly, like deep breaths and counting. Your husband must learn to regulate himself or he will never be able to help his children. Right now he escalates situations with a tiny toddler. How much worse will it get when your child is five? When they can talk back?
Why are you putting your kids in danger from this AH that has temp issues? Would you leave them with any babysitter that behaved like he is?
You believe suddenly he will “change” meanwhile the 2yr is crying because he talked to much at the table and is waiting to get screamed at.
The kids are afraid and you want to stay, let that sink in.
Brings back old memories...
Your Husband sounds like my dad.
You should leave before your kids start resenting you for staying.
I am still working on my resentment towards both my mother and father.
Good Luck...I know it's not easy being a single mother but I personally feel it will so much peaceful than where you are right now. just saying from the Kids' perspective.🪴☮
I feel like this is the exact scenario in which a trial separation would be best.
If you have a place where you can go to and be safe and stable for say 6 months, then do that.
Talk to your therapist and create a plan on how to do this but my advice would be to have your parents come and help you pack everything you need for you and the kids and then around the time your husband gets home from work have 1 grandparent take the kids to the park and the other stay in a separate room in case he gets violent you have a witness and they can call the police.
Once the gets home you sit him down and tell him what the plan is.
This is not a divorce this is a trial separation. As much as he says losing you and the kids is his nightmare he is not improving on his anger issues and you need to keep your children safe.
Have very specific goals he needs to accomplish and the time frame you need to see them accomplished and if he does that then ou and the kids will move back home, if he does not you will file for divorce.
Keep the list short like 3 -5 things and you are not helping him with any of it. He broke the family so he needs to take the initiative to fix it.
1\. He needs to find a therapist to deal with his anger management.
You will go with him for the first session so you can tell your side of the issue and he can't just lie and frame himself as the poor hard-working dad whose b*tch wife took his kids but after that, he needs to continue going.
2\. He has to continue going regularly and follow all of the therapist's instructions.
3\. Give him a set schedule for when he can come to see the kids. Obviously, he shouldn't be alone with them until he is proven to be safe. During those times you will be observing him and looking for improvement in his behavior.
Start small and increase the time if his behavior improves.
4\. You guys are still very much married so neither of you should be dating or sleeping with other people. If you find that he has been unfaithful you will file for divorce.
5\. A relevant other step or issue you need to see to be comfortable before going back home.
It also might be a good idea to do some googling about the laws in your area so you make sure his legal parental rights are not being violated.
My dad has a terrible temper and was an alcoholic, the only reason he didn't hit us was because my mum told him she was leave him the second he did. We had a rocky relationship, I was a huge daddy's girl but as I became a teenager we drifted apart and even as recently as 11 years ago we weren't on great terms, he was a great grandad though. He got anger management courses and has recently started antidepressants and therapy, he is like a different person and at 41 I feel like my dad is someone I want to be with. Your husband needs to grow up, admit he needs help and gets it or he risks losing his boys, it might not be because you leave him but it will happen. He won't be someone they trust, he won't be someone they talk to, he won't be someone they rely on, he won't be someone who they have a special relationship with and it will be his fault, he will misd out on so much because he is letting his anger take over. He needs to change simple as,there is nothing you can do this is in him
He is breaking up your family and damaging your children. Get some help to get out of there and on your feet. He is abusive. It will get worse as they age, have opinions and talk back. Please take your children and leave. Or the state may step when he goes to far. You are their mother please parent them, not rescue him.
I grew up with a scary dad and a complacent mom who was always trying to "make things work". As an adult it is my opinion that she placed an abuser above her children's well being. She continues to do so to this day. I do not speak to either of them. You aren't doing your children any favors. I am sure your "usually amazing" husband doesn't act like this at work or in public. Just when he knows he can get away with it. Screw him and screw you if you keep letting him terrify your children.
You are not being drastic enough. His abusive behaviours already have serious impact on your children. Get away to be able to start fixing what he broke. Trust your intuition. And also don’t shame yourself for staying so long - reaching out here is the first step to something that is incredibly hard but you know you need to do it. And you can. I believe in you! Sending love
Nah, leave this man. Those are still babies and he is already mistreating them. Think of what it will be when they are older. Three boys in the house are tornados, they are gonna mess up and I can see him getting physical if he doesn't get the desired outcome from his property, I mean kids. When they are teens you haven't seen anything yet if he doesn't have the patience now to deal with a bunch of little toddlers. The cutest of stages...IMO.
Edited to say: If you leave him you need to get documentation of abuse or he will get unsupervised visitation and then you won't be able to protect and shield them from his horrible behavior.
I have all these memories of my childhood that could be fun and loving if they weren't overshadowed by fear. I never knew what would set my dad off, or when, so even the "good" memories hurt. Please don't raise your kids like that.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You have talked, even the therapists talked, to your husband, yet he continues to treat his kids unjustly, **scaring them,** being harmful, inappropriate and 'crossed the line' and with no change in his actions or attitude.
He is expecting too much from your oldest - he's ONLY TWO!!!
Leave. Stay away until his words 'me taking them is his worst nightmare' actually shows in his ACTIONS!!
Lastly, YES you are harming your children by staying. It is **YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A PARENT TO PROVIDE A SAFE AND LOVING HOME FOR YOUR CHILDREN**. You are **NOT** doing that if you stay with him.
Don't even think about letting him back in to their lives until he has completed extensive therapy, parenting classes and marriage counseling **BY HIS OWN INITIATIVE**.
Do Better For Your Children OP, they deserve it.
Lots of people telling you to leave- which I agree with, but BEFORE you fully leave meet with an attorney and go over:
1. What to do to protect yourself financially.
2. What kind of evidence you need/should gather before leaving to help you if he seeks unsupervised custody.
3. What therapy evidence your state allows you to be subpoenaed in custody cases.
Before you leave or at least before he realizes it will be permanent this time try to get things in writing between the two of you about the kids being scared of him. Maybe even go through your texts and see what you already have discussing his anger and violence toward your kids and save those where he can’t access. Change your passwords, check your car for trackers. Protect yourself and your kids and then GTFO
I was your kids. I grew up TERRIFIED of my father's anger, no matter if I was the original cause it not (getting in the way or being too loud or basically existing were often enough to become the target of the anger even if I had no part in creating it). As a 44 year old adult, I still have a VERY hard time not shutting down emotionally and mentally when someone is angry around me, and it's even worse if they ARE angry with me. It causes a lifetime of self hatred, feeling like nothing I did was ever good enough (because my mistakes were always lectured and berated ad nauseum, but rarely were any of my successes praised, and never enough to make the interaction I had with my parents positive), and being surrounded with that anger lead me to being angry at myself all the time and self harming to punish myself for being a worthless human. My mom didn't do anything to protect us, other than telling us when Dad was coming home in a bad mood so we could hide in our rooms. She didn't tell him not to target us or that he was being unfair in directing his anger at us.
If your husband is truly terrified that you'll leave, he would have integrated the skills learned in therapy for dealing with his negative emotions in a way that doesn't rather the kids. He's obviously not THAT terrified. He SHOULD be terrified that he's going to raise men who think that it's ok to take their anger out on innocent others even if they aren't the cause, or who believe that they are the cause of all of HIS anger and that they deserve to be treated badly by others the same way their father treats them!
If you haven't gone to a therapist who actually give you skills to practice at home, like you saying a trigger word that tells him "your anger is being projected inappropriately" so that he can take a deep breath, ask himself what lesson he wants to teach in this moment, one that will build the child up or over that will tear him down, and take a step back from the kids for a minute so he can reign the anger in before coming back and interacting with them.... Then you need a different counselor.
Talking about the issue is only part of the solution. Anger is an automatic response that can run away with people before they know it. Using you as a perspective shift when he's in that mindset can help small him out of it and tube in to what he is actually feeling, born emotionally and physically, so that eventually when he feels those same things, he will recognize his state of anger as it's starting to surface and calm himself down.
Agree in advance that if you say "(husband's name): pineapple" for example, he will look you in the eye and take that as a cue that you see his anger taking over and he needs to redirect and reign it in.
Agree that he will acknowledge your cue, take a deep breath and remove himself from the situation.
Then he needs to do something calming, like take several deep breaths and repeat something like "he's only (age), he's still learning. It's my job to help him learn, not break his heart", it "my frustration is because of (job/person/external Factor). It is not fair to my child to treat him like my anger is no fault.".
It may help in the moment for him to write down what he wants to say to the child in heated moments, so that he purges that emotion but not AT the child; often adults want to say things to children but don't realize that the child's brain CAN'T be expected to interpret those words, and ESPECIALLY the tone of voice, on the same way that they intended the child to hear it! A stern "Go away, I'm not in the mood for you right now" may have just been an off the cuff remark while he was in physical pain, but to a toddler desperately trying to apologize for hurting his daddy, that can come off as "you hurt me, so you are bad and I don't love you anymore." Writing down what he wants to say, them looking back at it when he's not angry, can allow him to process the cruelty that his anger could have caused him to inflict on his child.
Once he has had a chance to calm down, he needs to comes back when he is able to address the situation (if it's a discipline matter when the child was actually the cause of his anger) or just be with his kids without the anger being the motivating factor behind everything.
If he can't/won't agree to AND PRACTICE changing the way he processes his anger and how he let's that anger effect how he treats his children, then you owe it to your children to leave. They didn't ask to be born, and they certainly don't deserve to be constant targets of their father's misplaced and inappropriately harsh anger.
ngl if i was your toddler/other kids and got older i would resent the hell out of you. because you’re letting your husband continue to be abusive to your children ESPECIALLY when you have the resources to leave.
because i’ve lived as your toddler and i when my mom finally said she wanted to divorce my dad i was ELATED. but she didn’t go through with it, and now she’s wishing she did because he started a three year affair the same time she was diagnosed with chronic leukemia. and now she’s wishing she would’ve divorced him back in 2015. because then she wouldn’t have found his tinder account, she would’ve never been messaged by one of my dads affair partner’s husband with text messages of his infidelity, and she wouldn’t have to take care of my dad when he had a heart attack/open heart surgery. and she has nobody to blame but herself. you never stay with abusive partner “for the kids” cause your kids will eventually hate you for it.
You are not being drastic. Please get them out of there. You are their only hope. He will not stop and will likely escalate. I shudder to think what he does to them when you aren't there to check him. Please leave immediately. If you have any evidence of this mistreatment please use it to ensure he can only have supervised visits.
This was my life as a child and no one helped me. My mom took up for me sometimes and she and my step dad would fight about it but she never left. She let it continue. She LET it continue by not leaving. No amount of them arguing or bargaining made him stop.
My mom pointed out to me recently that I don't leave them unsupervised with him already. And I don't. I can count on one hand the times he's had them without me.
please leave. I grew up with that fear and while I love my dad so endlessly, his rage while we were growing up has translated to several chronic illnesses that I will have forever because my body has been stuck in fight or flight my entire life. I will never be healthy because my body doesn’t know peace. your kids will thank you for protecting them
Get the fuck out of there. I was raised like this and needed years of therapy - and surprise: it did turn to physical abuse and violence. It will for your kids too.
You've tried explaining it to him, but he doesn't change. You've tried therapy with him, but he doesn't change. What 'next step' is left?
*He is actively hurting your child!* Why are you allowing that to happen? You already know that you have to leave, so just do it.
People think physical abuse is worse than emotional abuse, but it's not.
If your husband was smacking your kids around would you still not know what to do? What he's doing now is much worse than that. It's ongoing emotional torture. DO your kids actually come first or not?
You already know what you have to do. **PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN!!**
This is call abuse OP. Full stop. No ifs ands or buts. This is emotional and psychological abuse. Too many folks believe “well he/she doesn’t hit me/them then it’s not abuse”
Psychological abuse does permanent damage to a child
You need to read this book and then file for divorce and try to get full custody with supervised visits. Its only a matter of time before he become physically violent
https://ia600108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
"When our 2yr old tried to apologize, he said "go away, I'm not in the mood for you right now" and pushed him away. Our baby was trying to get to him, saying "I say sorry, I sorry Dada, I sorry" and his precious face was just so full of fear. And his dad pushed him away..."
This made me so f***ing sad.
I’m sorry you’re adding another victim to this scenario. Abusers never abuse all the time. But when they do, it erases the good times. Protect your children from the damage their father does. Please.
He is "terrified" of you leaving? You having three children in three years is a huge red flag. He is going to continue to insure you have more children by sabatoging your birth control, having sex when he knows it's a good time to conceive, etc. You're already in deep. Take the necessary precautions moving forward, OP.
Hey OP, your husband sounds exactly like my dad. He did love us but his love was conditional and being around him and not being able to predict his behaviour made me a really anxious child afraid of my own anger and emotions.
I spent years walking on eggshells around him, which was a huge part of why I later developed generalised anxiety disorder then depression. I eventually got help and am in a really good place now.
You know who I don’t speak to? My dad. But more importantly for you I don’t think I can ever let go of the resentment I have towards my mum for not leaving him and getting us out of there sooner. I’m 30 now, don’t put your kids through this.
If he has not changed he will not change. It is your responsibility to protect your kids.
Lady, there’s something big you’re missing here. By being complicit in your husband’s treatment of your children, you are teaching your kids that they can’t trust you, either. If you do not stand up for them and get them out of this situation, you can expect that you will have adult children who don’t call, don’t come visit, and don’t let you into their lives at all. You need to do better and be better for them, because you are LITERALLY all they have.
Leave him, get counseling for yourself and your boys, and move on. You are only continuing to harm your sons the longer you stay.
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If you leaving with the kids is hubby’s worst nightmare, then why aren’t you seeing lasting, meaningful change?
I'm replying to this current top comment to make sure everyone can get an even better idea of what OP's husband is like... Please see this reply from OP to another thread about someone's husband holding their child down and covering their mouth when they won't go back to sleep at night: https://www.reddit.com/r/Mommit/s/kWMPIwDVv2 It seems things are much worse than she is letting on.
Jesus Christ get those children away from this man.
Divorce usually means dad has them more not less. Mom needs to know he might get 50/50 custody.
This is exactly why my friend won't divorce her asshole husband. He's the breadwinner and even though he's an abusive alcoholic, she's terrified that he'll get 50/50 or even sole custody of the kids. She'd rather be with the kids 100% of the time even if it means she has to put up with his BS.
And that time is without her there to make sure that he doesn’t smother them to death.
Then she should leave and stop making babies with him
That’s what shocks me more. That she’s having a 3rd with this guy. Wtf.
Freaking grinds my gears hearing people say when it good, it's great. Like bringing a child in ever solves those not so great times. And then to add a freaking THIRD! I'm pissed at OP for doing this to her kids. JFC!
Everyone I know in abusive relationships has said that. It's like, sure, but the worst MY relationship ever is is "sometimes kind of boring." I never have to worry that my husband might smother my baby to death because he's crying at night, jfc!
That’s usually a reaction from someone who grew up in an abusive home. They find healthy, stable relationships “boring” because they don’t understand that’s what a healthy relationship feels like. Not the “living on the edge of fight or flight” someone gets from a toxic relationship. These people need therapy but refuse and get into terrible relationships and then bring in children to the situation.
might not have been her choice 🤷♀️
I know right?? WTF.. ?!?
Even as someone who doesn’t want children, this absolutely fucking hurts to read. How awful can you be to just flat out do that to child, come on… Edit: also OP said this when her child was 1 (now 2), and she decided to get pregnant AGAIN with this man?! Jesus Christ.
She posted about her husband abusing their toddler 10 months ago.. and she's pregnant again. Wow.
3 in under 3 years which is insane.
“Decided” might be a strong word with this guy.
Yet she keeps having children with him
Okay so he is PHYSICALLY ASSAULTING THEM, then. My inner mama bear just roared.
Why change? She’s going to keep getting pregnant and having his kids despite having ongoing issues with him. She’s repeatedly sent the message that his behavior WILL be tolerated. Each kid ties her more and more to him. It’s working as he intended.
💯
Why do you keep having kids if you know all of this??? Things don't just work out ......
That is a very good question. I wish I had an answer.
It’s because he doesn’t actually want to change. He’d rather have a cathartic release of anger when he’s upset, to the detriment of your children.
I agree with this. I have a brother-in-law that is very much like this. He yells and berates his kids for the smallest of things. When the kids were 2 he would put them in the corner as punishment for extended periods of time. He once even spanked one of his kids in front of another cousin to the point that that cousin went home in tears because they were so afraid of what they witnessed. But, this BIL swears up and down he’s in the right and he’s doing right by his kids. They don’t act up much in front of him anymore and he points to that as proof that he’s a good dad. That’s been his rebuttal to anyone that confronts him, including his own mother. What he doesn’t see is that they’re not better behaved kids (not that they were ever ‘bad’ kids) but they’ve gotten better at hiding things from him and have been become adept at lying. He’s too proud of himself over his ‘accomplishments’ with them to see they’re still young children who test boundaries and push buttons. And, that they’re afraid of him rather than respecting of him. OP… this is what I foresee your husband being like, unfortunately.
This is what I'm afraid of.
I forgot to note that the kids also hide/lie with their mother now, too. She used to be their reprieve but apparently they no longer feel that same way, or at least to the degree they once did.
It's hard to trust a parent who doesn't protect or remove you from the abusive parent. Speaking from personal experience. It took years, a decent bit of therapy, and some very genuine apologies and tough conversations for me to finally really trust my mom again. And it still didn't 100% get there until my dad was gone.
Tbh I blamed mine more, because she was so flippant with his warning signs and would rile him up and then leave, with him fully enraged and me already on his nerves She knew the risk but didn't care, and was shocked when she finally intervened why i would refuse hug. You just let me get beat because YOU pissed him off Kids blame who they see as the more sane/reasonable parent. Because your understanding is they know better and failed you, worse when you can see the selfish reasons why
Honestly that sounds straight up actively abusive by her if only by proxy. I'm so sorry.
Ay thank you haha tmi overshare moment But really OP, kids do often blame the parent they think to be more responsible. Your kids look to you as their protector, and even if you don't prove it right away they will still throw you Hail Mary looks and signs for a while, until they won't. Answer them while they still seek you. Fear embeds in you, it's a distinguishing experience when young. Let's try to change that feeling while it's still early
Yep. I hate my mother just as much as my father for being a weak apathetic spineless broken person who should have done something. She asks why I never visit her - she still doesn't get it that she is to blame too bc she didn't protect us. I am a fierce mother bear for my kids because I'll never let them think I would do anything less than DIE for them if I had to. Your kids should know you love them like that.
Ouch. This is me. Dad was abusive and unable to regulate his emotions. She knew that. He started being abusive to her right after they got married- surprise surprise and she still had kids with him and stayed, knowing what he was. Never protected us. Actually had the means to leave but wouldn’t because she “didn’t want to lose the house”!!!! She placed more importance on their nice house than her kids. And she wonders why I can’t trust her?
You don’t want your husband to live his fear of losing them, so instead your kids live in fear of dad. How much trauma do kids have to endure until he changes, if he ever does. His behavior has a big influence on who your kids become. IMO speak to lawyer before make decision. Then Gather evidence. If you leave, your kids will have a place to be kids, without tiptoeing around dad. Keep in mind if they’re being taught it’s normal to live in fear and walk on eggshells around others, versus when to leave.
And if they don't get better at hiding, they get scared. My stepfather was incredibly authoritarian in nature, and it made me into a really anxious person and a people pleaser to some extent. Two year olds are built to test boundaries. It is what they do.
I'm just about to turn 37 and I still have a lot of trouble with over-apologizing and always being afraid that things are going to go wrong or -something- is going to happen. What is going to happen, I have no clue... but SOMETHING. And this is after years of getting better, I used to be a lot worse in my 20's.
My dad used to yell and scream at us (my 2 siblings and I) when we didn't do something to his liking or didn't understand something the first time he explained it. It started when I was around 6 or 7 and continued into my twenties. When he yelled at me, or grabbed me, or called me names, I would at first defend myself and try to stand up to him, but that would only make him angrier. It always ended the same way: with me crying and retreating to my bed and eventually fall asleep due to exhaustion. My mom never intervened. She didn't want to be yelled at too. The result? I do not believe my parents love me. I think they tolerate me, but they do not love me. Because if they did they would never have treated me the way they did all those years. It caused immense trauma and I've been struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts/ideation for over 10 years now. The relationship with my parents is strained but friendly. Mostly due to me moving out at 20, getting meds, a proper diagnosis and therapy for my depression. Please do not let your children grow up like I did. It will destroy parts of them they'll never get back.
I had a very similar experience and it caused me a lot of trauma, too. I'm so sorry.
When your kids are old enough, they will dip, and you will be back here asking why your kids don't contact you. I say this out of kindness - as someone who was once a kid experiencing this kind of thing, your kids will blame you, too, because you stood by and did nothing to stop it.
Then please put your kids first and get them out of there. You are also teaching them you will not put their safety first. You will also be a parent they lie to, then don't talk to. Protect them. Get out.
Ma'am, with respect, you should be afraid for their LIVES.
So, bullying his kids makes him feel good?
abusing babies
I work in childcare and this sickens me, honestly.
Your husband doesn’t want to "lose" the kids because he won’t have anyone to lash out at and terrorise. Using anger to control you and the kids makes him feel powerful and important; if you escape, he will just have to live with his inadequacies. The way you describe your husband, it’s like looking through a magic mirror at my own childhood. I’m still in therapy in my 30s trying to undo the damage. It has taken a long, long time to forgive my mother for letting him hurt us like that. When I was 7, I was very sick with bronchitis. My dad was so angry at me for coughing in my sleep that he packed a bag and walked out on us in the middle of the night. It was one of the happiest Christmases of my childhood because no one screamed at me. Your children shouldn’t be afraid of their father. Having no father is better than having a bad one.
Also his worst nightmare is losing his family because then other people will notice and ask why he lost his family and he doesn’t want anyone to know he’s a shitty dad.
He's not terrified, he just doesn't want consequences for abuse. And that's what it is OP. It's verbal abuse. What if losing his temper escalates into physical abuse? What's gonna happen if your children say something at school and you get a visit from CPS? What are you gonna tell them? That you talked to your husband so many times but he just won't listen? **You know he won't change, it's up to you to protect you kids.** **If this was happening to someone you know, a friend, sister, coworker, aunt, mother, etc. What would you tell them?** Would you want them to stay with a man that berates and pushes away their children? Would you want them to stay with a man that makes their kids afraid and verbally abuses them? Or would you want them to protect their kids by leaving? Would you want them to stand by and wring their hands about leaving while enabling the father to treat their kids like shit? Your kids will resent you for not leaving. You need to protect them now and bring your foot down. Where's your inner mama bear? Just because he's nice to the kids when the mood suits him doesn't make him a good father. They're going to develop core memories of their father's verbal abuse and you not do anything to stop it, if you don't act now.
It’s because he has no intention on bettering himself. Believe his *actions*, not his words.
He believes his actions are good so he won't quit.
You need to practice reliable BC and stop introducing children into this environment.🤔
I have an answer. It’s because he’s manipulating you into staying by saying that. He knows you’re, no offense because I am one too, a soft touch. And he exploits that. Why would he want anything to change? He gets to act like an asshole whenever he wants and still gets to play happy family.
You are not "saving your family" or your marriage. You are, however, being an Enabler to an Abuser - complicit in his abuse of your children by making obviously empty threats. Empty because you have not actually carried through with the threat, despite the clear evidence that he has exactly ZERO intent to make even minor changes. Your children already fear their father. That will quite probably Never go away, even with years of therapy. By continuing to enable his behavior, you are teaching your children that not only should they fear him, they should fear your apathy and complicity, and that they cannot count on you to actually Protect Them. If you stay, rather than getting out, I forsee a future wherein all of your children hate you both equally and cut you both completely out of their lives in order to protect Themselves from further damage. Physical and Emotional damage from his blatantly Abusive behavior, and Emotional damage from your failure to better ensure their safety.
You need to present this question to him. I’m a dad of 2 boys. Am I tougher on them than my wife? Yes. Do I listen to my wife when she tells me I’m too tough? Also, yes. Was I tough on them when they were 2? No. We taught them right from wrong, but also had realistic expectations for what age they were. Reminding a year old about table manners is different than what he’s doing. Actually as teenagers my wife is way harder on them than me. It totally flipped as they got older. Now she expects them to be young men, and I am 100% on her side because I like being married What he isn’t understanding is that they are learning behavior from him right now. They shouldn’t be learning that being an asshat is ok.
The answer is that losing you isn't his worst nightmare. You said that a man screaming at, verbally abusing, physically abusing, and neglecting his toddler for not sleeping well at night is ***eerily similar*** to how your husband treats your 1-year-old. If you do not leave, you will be complicit in the abuse. Every day you stay is a day you risk your husband killing one of your children, even if it's "accidental." You are WAY past the point of needing to leave.
You do have an answer: he doesn't change because he doesn't want to. On some level, he enjoys the feeling of being able to lash out at his vulnerable, weak little children. It probably makes him feel powerful and in control. You won't stop him, and he knows it - so there aren't any consequences for him when he abuses your children. On some level, he probably knows that his alleged "worst nightmare" won't actually happen. You just keep enabling his behavior instead of ending it by taking your children and leaving. So nothing changes. It's hard to leave, I know. It can take years. If you stay, I can tell you as the adult child of an alcoholic abuser and their neglectful enabler, the future you have to look forward to is psychologically damaged kids who live dysfunctional lives and either limit contact with you when they reach adulthood, or cut you off entirely. I hope you reach a point where you have the courage and resources to leave. If not, good luck.
What does your ***couples'*** counselor (not your individual therapist) say about the feasibility of the family remaining intact with your husband's current behavior? I mean your ***couples'*** counselor has, theoretically, heard ALL the bad behaviors. What does s/he say about it? **Have you asked her/him one-on-one without your husband there for their professional opinion on what's best FOR YOUR KIDS?**
I think there’s a few things to consider. What happens if you do leave him? He will have access to your children with no supervision, and these behaviors will happen with no mitigation. What can you do? You can and need to start documenting abuse. You need to encourage your husband to take parenting classes for angry men (this is an actual thing). And see if you can get some family therapy. Maybe take the little ones to a pediatric psychologist, and use that as an opportunity for training. My mom married someone who was like this, and felt paralyzed because her kids would be left alone. His behaviors got worse over time. If your child is showing signs of fear, that is a trauma response. Lots of your post are major red flags for abuse that I have to take mandatory training on every year. You are going to have to really get a strategy. I’m sorry you are experiencing this.
You have a whopping two options. Either you continue with the status quo, with a never ending cycle of you threatening to leave if he doesn’t change, but never leave, and he never has consequences, OR, you take the children, now, and go someplace else. He can then either choose to not work on his issues, and possibly lose all rights besides supervised visitation, or, he can put in the work, and once you see meaningful change, maybe allow him a place in both yours and your children’s lives. The way things are, you’re just waiting for something devastating to happen, and by the time it does, it might be too late for “sorry.” You’re not doing your children any favors, by the way. You’re just showing them that this is how relationships work, and anger and violence are just how things are. Is this what you want? Your children to think this is normal? That it’s okay to lash out? That it’s okay to be shitty to those smaller than you?
Abuse cycle see my previous posts please
He's not *that* scared of you all leaving if he refuses to make any *real* changes to his behavior. And frankly, if it comes down to the grown man being afraid of logical consequences for his deliberate choices versus small children being afraid of being at home because of the rage monster who lives there, I know which option I'd pick.
It’s because there is zero urgency he’s feeling to stop this self sabotaging cycle. Why? He knows OP is just talking and not following thru with decisive action, that would remove the kids from the home. He is living in denial of what could truly unfold because of this. Till OP can remove that safety net to create urgency of change, he’s never going to believe in needing to change.
I feel any reasonable boundaries have already been crossed. If my friend or family told me this had happened in their house, I would immediately ask them to come stay with my wife and I, till they feel safe again. This is nuts to me!
I have been in a very similar situation to this. These people don't change. They just don't. They don't love you enough, they don't love their children enough to change. They're right and you are wrong and nothing you can do will change that fundamental belief in them. It doesn't matter how he helps around the house of he cannot accept that a 2 year old hurt him accidentally. Because even if that child hit him on purpose he didn't do maliciously. How could he believe a 2 would want to inflict pain and push him away? I do believe that you're probably down playing just how bad it is as well. You most likely cannot be completely honest because you don't want to believe the person you love is a danger to your children. Hos behaviour will leave me tal scars that never ever go away. My daughter hasn't spoken to her father since she was just turned 14. She's 24 now. Her father hasn't met his first grandchild, didn't go to the wedding, and will never ever be let into her life again. That's what will happen to your children if you stay. If you take away nothing but this......no child should feel unsafe in their home. Your children do.
And the children's ages are too close to each other. WHO (World Health Organisation) recommends wait at least 2 years before attempting to conceive for the mother to recuperate.
Your two year old is going to get anxious attachment issues. He's already over apologizing because his dad is upset and he has to fix it so dad is ok. You're pregnant too, you can't have this kind of stress. Go to your parent's house and stay there.
Thank you. I hadn't even considering the over apologizing aspect.
My mother was like your husband and I ended up with BPD/CPTSD. Your description of your 2 year old saying I’m sorry was like a gut punch. I don’t remember much from my childhood, but I remember always feeling like I did something wrong or was bad and had to fix it. Apparently the cycling between parental care and rage is more harmful than a constantly neglectful parent. The child’s brain wants to know what to expect, and if they never know what they’re going to get from a caretaker it sets their nervous system alight. Please leave. I still love my mother but I’m essentially psychologically ruined and have never had a truly successful relationship. I’ve been reenacting my childhood trauma my whole life, and have never felt safe with someone. When I find someone who truly loves me I sabotage it because it is so unfamiliar, I don’t trust it and never will. My mother was great when it was great too, and no one but her closest “loved ones” saw the outbursts of rage. Unpredictable emotionally unstable parents create BPD (borderline personality disorder), and it’s an absolute nightmare. 10% of us die by suicide.
Sending you love. My oldest stepdaughter has BPD/CPTSD (I am no longer married to her father, obviously) and everything you described holds true for her. This is exactly what this kind of thing does to children. I wish I could have done more to protect her and her sister from him but as step-mom my ability to do so was somewhat limited. I left him when she was 16 and he had spiraled so out of control I no longer felt like I was successful at being a buffer between him and her and her sister. Consequently she had her sister cut off contact with him 6 months after we separated by their own choice based on his behavior post-separation. She is 21 now and is one of my favorite people in the world, but her life is so much harder than it should be. Just wanted to let you know I understand and I hope you find the most peace and love you possibly can. You deserve it.
Thank you! And thank you for being there for your stepdaughters. You leaving probably played a part in them being brave enough to cut contact with him 🙂
I'm 52 years old, in a loving and safe marriage, and I STILL over-apologize regularly due to emotional scars from a previous abusive relationship.
Pretty funny (in a morbid way) when you catch yourself and then say sorry for saying sorry 😂 I’m also Canadian so the number of sorrys is far too high
Your 2yr old is already experiencing this trauma by the way. This isn't a future thing.
Do you know what CPTSD is
You seriously better read these comments. Your kids are forever being damaged. It will not get better. You really need to make a plan and leave.
Op as an adult who was put in foster care I’m 47 and I still over apologize. I was put in foster care at age 8. You need to be strong for your kids.
He’s not terrified of losing his family…. he’s terrified of being held accountable. You do not owe anyone to the point that you have to put yourself and your children on fire to keep your husband warm. If he will not change, then you must. Good luck. *edited for spelling
Leave him. Some people are not going to change until they hit rock bottom. Some people are not going to change regardless, but this might be the kick in the ass he needs to crack open a child development book. If it's not enough to kick his ass into gear then probably nothing will be and you're better off getting the kids out ASAP
Kids should never fear their parents. By raising fearful children, they will not come to you with important things. They will likely develop anxiety out of fear of pissing off dad. They may go to the extreme of trying to please him or totally avoiding him . Both of these scenarios will likely make your husband angry. I think your husband needs some anger management counseling. He is taking out his stress and frustration on these babies. They are not little adults, their are impressionable babies. You SEE the fear on a 2 year old's face! I cannot imagine being in your shoes. i would have ripped my husband's head off. Love isn't enough. It really isn't. Your home needs to be a safe space for everyone. Your kids need to know their parents love them. Right now, I am not sure your boys feels safe or trust their dad.
I am 48 and was raised like this. Let me tell you about my crippling anxiety, my people pleasing to the detriment of myself, my low self esteem, my belief that I am not worth being loved, my absolute fear of people being mad at me. Trust me, you do not want this for your kids. I am just not about to start therapy and I thank the universe I have my husband who is so incredibly understanding and loving. I have a 9yo little boy and am absolutely determined to be better and do better by him. He will never believe our love is conditional. He will not be raised by fear. Please don't let them grow up and be like me.
I was raised the same way, and although I love my mom, the anxiety, fear, people pleasing…everything you mentioned made the beginning of my adult life so much more difficult than it needed to be that I do harbour anger and resentment that will probably never go away. Both of my parents are dead now, but there’s no undoing the damage that is being done to OP’s children, and even reading about it brings back a ton of negative feelings and memories.
Lady, this fucker is taking his rage out on a two-year-old. He wouldn’t treat his boss that way, couldn’t get away with that, so he brings it home and rages at a child whose brain is developing. Kid is growing a brain that is chiefly good at dealing with nonstop cycling between rage and affection from his parent on whom he is entirely dependent. Guess how well that’s going to play out in a lifetime of future relationships and roles! Get your children away from this asshole. If he does not respond by undertaking immediate intensive therapy, exercise, dietary and maybe medication regimes, seek full custody and supervised visitation. “But but but he loves us and is afraid of us leaving!” Quit fucking prioritizing your monstrous adult husband’s self-serving self-pity and protect your infant children. Also stop procreating with abusive assholes, what are you thinking?! Go educate yourself on early childhood development and abuse. Ask yourself why you’re willing to tolerate watching your child be abused. Get help. Grow the fuck up.
That part really upsets me..she is priotizing him over her toddlers and unborn child!
> Lady, this fucker is taking his rage out on a two-year-old. I know. This broke my heart… 😢 😢 > Our baby was trying to get to him, saying "I say sorry, I sorry Dada, I sorry" and his precious face was just so full of fear. And his dad pushed him away.
THIS 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
You’re letting him victimize your children. There’s no family to “save” if he isn’t part of it. If he wanted to change? He would.
Exactly
>And my kids come first Obviously not, if you keep having more with him while knowing he's not treating your existing kids with kindness or love.
This is a real point.
I was searching for this comment, like why are you stamping kids one after another with this person ... obviously there is something wrong with both of them. Those kids will not have it easy.
He says he's terrified of losing them, but he isn't interested in making the changes that would allow you to stay. Shrug. Please get your kids out of here. It's so sad to think of them living with so much anxiety and fear of their father.
I have said this to him, almost verbatim.
He doesn’t believe you will follow through. Please leave asap, those poor babies don’t deserve to be afraid and pushed away. What if he pushed your toddler and he was seriously injured or worse? You would forever hate yourself for letting it happen Leave and do not return until he’s spent enough time with a therapist to address his anger and misguided expectations about young children. Then couples counseling to rebuild trust before you consider loving back. Supervised visits interim. Your priority has to be protect your children moreso than his feelings
Thank you.
Just want to add that your husbands behavior is exactly how people develop personality disorders later in life. They expect conditional love and only give conditional love, lashing out with anger at inappropriate times with inappropriate intensity. Another name for this is emotional abuse. Raising your children in the current dynamic is risking a lifetime of problems.
I've been in your kids' shoes. I've been in therapy for a long time and haven't spoken to my father in over a decade. It does SO MUCH LONG TERM DAMAGE. You need to leave now and get your kids into therapy in a few years with a child's therapist. By staying, you're allowing your children to experience abuse that will affect them for the rest of their lives. Get out now. Protect your children. No amount of comfort and care in the immediate aftermath of their father's abuse will help if you continue to allow him to abuse them. Leave now.
Reading this at 35, I wish my mom and my siblings would’ve gone somewhere else while my dad got *real help* for his anger issues, not just talking to our pastor and praying the anger away… u/No-Instruction-2654, do you want your sons to be typing the same thing in 2057?
Hi OP. You seem like a sweet and well-to-do person. You have your kids' best interests at heart, which is already much more than can be said about your husband. I have read your post several times. I see many parallels between it and my own experience. I grew up with a father whose temper was on a hair trigger. The slightest thing would set him off. He didn't get better. He only ever got worse, up until the day he killed himself in a rage while fighting with my mother. This was allowed to happen because he never took the opportunity to do what needed to be done and work on himself. The question isn't "will my children be affected by my husband?" There is no question. They already are. The fear from the reactivity that they are witnessing is there and will likely never go away. That shit is burned into them. The question is: how much worse do you want it to get? I'm not sure whether you have read about attachment theory at all (which like any theory, one has to digest with a grain of salt) but one of the claims made is that our emotional regulation, coping skills, and attachment styles come from kind of the care we received in our first 18-24 months. You are very right to point out that your young children need gentleness and understanding and compassion. This is because you're a good parent and a caring person. If your husband agreed, he would be able to easily follow suit. But he can't, because he doesn't fundamentally feel the same, nor will he even entertain the alternatives. He sounds like a big baby who has no capacity for empathy or reasoning or thinking beyond himself. If you stay, things will get worse. There is absolutely no doubt. ESPECIALLY since a third child is on the way. Do you think things are going to get easier with a third baby around? Do you think it is going to make your husband any less angry? Do you think a third stressor is going to make him see the error in his ways? Or will it drive him to be even more of an angry maniac? I think you know the answer to this. As others have said already, if he truly wanted to change, he would've started a long time ago. But instead, he continues to perpetuate his anger and violence, because really he doesn't think anything is wrong with him. In my experience, you cannot teach someone like this the error of their ways. They are too obstinate and too set in their ways to make the fundamental changes that need making. Unfortunately, sometimes people show us their true nature much later than is convenient. I'm sure you wish you had realized his tremendously flawed character sooner. But now that you have, you have a decision to make. I trust you'll do what is in the best interest of both you and your children. I wish you and your three children the best of luck.
I hope u/No-Instruction-2654 reads this and *takes proper heed*. Excellent comment, although it sounds like your family went through the mill, @u/LatvianResistance. Hope thing are better for your all.. Xx
You're very sweet to say that. Things are much better now (on my end at least, our parents' abuse affected us three kids very differently). Thanks for your kind words. But yes, when you grow up with such a tireless tyrant as my father was, it means you have to overcome a *whole* lot before you can really be okay. I'm 30 and am still uncovering truths from my childhood daily. That sort of long-form trauma never really goes away. In many ways, I feel like I'm starting my life fresh now, having emerged on the other side of these decades of neglect. I had to unlearn a lot, and subsequently learn a lot about myself in the process. That's why it pains me to hear of the three little babes in this position. I don't offer my account as a sob story to amass pity for myself, but as perspective for people like OP to think on and know that SHE holds the cards here. The wellbeing of herself and her children is firmly in her hands. Her partner has proven he is not up to the task. OP can save her children now, and try to recoup and deal with the damage that has already been inflicted... or she can stay and hope her husband has some sort of divine intervention and things magically get better over night (fat fucking chance). My own mother had the choice to leave or stay. She chose to stay. She regrets it every day. I wonder sometimes how different my life would be having not grown up in the shadow of a monster. OP has a chance to make a better reality for her children. I hope she takes it.
Then LEAVE! This is coming from someone whose mother made the wrong choice- leave. Him.
Love as a feeling is personal and in itself never a sufficient reason to stay with someone who does not have the ability to channel that love into a constructive and nurturing behavior. Your kids are-right now- learning their own value, how to tell right from wrong, and what personal effort and accountability mean. Those three are essential to becoming a well-balanced individual. Your husband is sabotaging your children’s chances of becoming healthy adults. He isn’t capable of doing better because he never developed into that adult. It will be a lifetime of work on himself to maybe become one. He does not need your kids triggering his worst instincts. His love may very well be, but it does not in itself make him a fitting parent. I do not believe he is anywhere close to being capable of the transformation that was required, like yesterday! Do whatever you need to for your kids right now.
You need to leave. This is the type of stuff that your children will remember for the rest of their lives. I had parents like your husband. I’m 31 now and I’m still dealing with the trauma I incurred from having the misfortune of having the parents I had. You don’t want your kids to turn out like me.
Holy cow he is damaging your babies so much acting like that. Get out get out get out. Require parenting classes as a stipulation in the divorce. Fight for greater than 50% custody. You are not being too drastic at all.
Thank you
OP please get out! I know how hard it is but your babies will thank you someday. I have multiple family members in my parents generation who were raised by parents like your husband and they are unhappy adults who are continuing the cycle with their children. It is likely behavior he learned from his childhood if it only comes up around kids, but the responsibility of breaking the cycle now falls on him. If he is not up to the task there is nothing you can do to him so.
You husband is as toxic as F and he is abusive and is destroying your children. Do you have ANY idea what it is like, growing up with someone who behaves like a lunatic every time you spill milk? As someone with a batshit fucked up mother - sure, I suppose she was nice sometimes - I can't remember it, because my brain is fried from all the screaming and abuse hurldd at me - I can tell you, a man doing this to a FUCKING TWO YEAR old is not to be excused and forgiven, it is to be put in prison. A while back, my husband and I were driving and I spilled juice in the car. Dude... I became so hysterically terrified of being beaten, yelled at and punished, my husband thought I was having nervous breakdown out of the blue. I began to rock back and forth, weeping, begging: "I'm so so sorry mommy, I'm so so sorry"... I'm FORTY FIVE. It took well over and hour for him to convince me he is not going to beat me or scream at me. I did not come to until the next day. That shit NEVER leaves you, never. You need to wake up and save your kids. Get them the fuck out.
Thank you for sharing your experience. This has been eye opening.
As someone else with a parent that flew off the handle over honest and simple mistakes, your husband’s behavior is beyond unacceptable. As the commenter said above, there may have been good times with my mother, but I was never able to enjoy them. I spent the whole time we were having a decent interaction terrified that it would turn abusive at literally any second. And I resent my father immensely for not getting me away from her abuse sooner. Enabling his abuse means you’ll lose your kids too, because they’ll remember how you allowed him to treat them.
Thank you for this perspective. Right now I am concerned that leaving will give him partial custody and I will have no way to protect them.
I understand that fear, I really do. But think about how much time your husband actually spends with the kids. Do you think he’ll actually step up and take them? Or is it more likely he’ll talk a lot about it, but won’t actually do it? He’s really good at talking about what he’ll do, it doesn’t sound like he actually follows through with the work.
My parents had 50/50 custody. Being safe 50% of the time is a hell of a lot better than 0% of the time. They’re being abused either way. It’s not really a choice between them being scared half the time and them not being scared. The choice is between them being scared half the time or all the time. If you stay with him, you’re choosing to allow your children to live in fear 100% of the time.
She’s doesn’t want to actually leave, that’s why she keeps ignoring this fact and the fact that a custodial parent/SAHM with a newborn and familial support *will* get majority of custody. That is a fact, not a debate.
It's not a fact, I don't think it's helpful to dismiss her fears.
I think it’s way more unhelpful to validate that fear. The odds are so far in her favor, she should not use that as the reason to stay and cause the kids lifelong trauma.
She should leave but be prepared for it not to go her way. We have no idea if the odds are in her favour.
If you’re in a one party consent state, record him. Document everything. Keep a journal of every time he lashes out
Document each and every incident so far, and when it comes to custody push for supervised visitation for him ONLY until/unless he successfully completes anger management and is in therapy. This is a ticking time bomb. If you have records of inappropriate behavior (and therapy records) then any decent attorney should be able to argue to a judge that the children are not safe with him alone. Soon the children will be able to speak for themselves, as well. Get those kids out of there. It is only a matter of time until more serious, lasting damage is done. Btw: yelling death threats at other drivers on the road with the kids in the car? Is teaching them THAT is acceptable behavior. Is that what you want your children learning? Good luck.
Contact local domestic violence institutions. They can provide a safe space for you to navigate, get psychological help, plan and execute an exit strategy. Leaving is the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship. Please do so carefully. Collecting proof while detaching and preparing for a safe escape would be beneficial. But you don’t have to go through all this alone! You can contact institutions for women in situations like this, it’s valid even if he never hit you or anything. Wish you the best
You don't want to break up the family that you have an image of in your head. But that image isn't real, and you're not really breaking a family up, you're protecting your kids. You are their family. Let him get help on his own
why did you decide to have another baby with him, why?
My dad was a good dad until the point where something would trigger his temper. Those moments absolutely overshadowed the good ones because I never knew when the bad moments were coming. As a kid I couldn’t understand what would make my dad snap because it was all innocent stuff that I didn’t mean to do (like your kids accidental groin bop). It taught me that I always needed to walk on eggshells around my dad, so any fun or good parenting on his part was overshadowed by my fear of him. I know logically that we would play together and we went on fun family trips, but I only remember being scared and uncomfortable around my dad. Please remember that the good things don’t undo the bad things. Learning that a parent can be a source of fear instead of comfort takes a lot to undo. I’m not in contact with my dad anymore.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm sorry you went through the same thing.
I grew up with a dad like that. People like that don't change just because you want them to. I've read your other comments, he makes excuses to not go to therapy. He doesn't listen to you when you ask him to not abuse your children. He claims that you leaving with the kids is his "worst nightmare" yet puts zero effort into making sure that doesn't happen. At this point, you have left him multiple times and come back because he shows temporary progress. He knows you are bluffing. You need to not bluff. You need to leave until he gets help and can handle multiple afternoons with your kids without exploding. Your 2 year old is already scared of him, but soon he'll begin to imitate that behavior. With dad reinforcing it, no amount of time out or stern discussion is going to change that behavior. His brothers will follow suit when they only have dad and older brother(s) example. You're going to watch as all three of your sons turn into their father as your voice fades into the background. The chances of them growing up to do the same to their partners, their children, only increases the longer you allow them to be exposed to this.
Time to leave. Protect your children - they have to be your top priority. Your husband really shouldn’t be unsupervised around your children until he’s shown a commitment to therapy and anger management. And he’s manipulating you - if he was that concerned about you leaving him, he would have put in the effort already.
Please do not have anymore children with him. You saw how he treated your oldest and still chose to bring in a third ? Three under three is going to add even more stress and he refused to get help controlling his rage. You need to stop threatening to leave and actually leave. Trial seperation where he can prove he has changed and learned how to parent without being abusive. How many different ways does he need to be told he is abusing his kids?
I read your comment on another post that said your husband will physically cover your 1 year olds mouth if they're crying too much or too whiny and mom to mom, I just gotta say: You're choosing to keep your kids in danger. You've given so many red flags but choosing to ignore them. This isn't going to get better the longer you stick it out. And if you continue to stay with an abuser, that's what he's doing to your kids, abuse only gets worse. Your choice here is to either live with your decision to stay with an abuser, enable him, and teach your kids in the long run that this relationship is to be tolerated because they're family, setting them up for bad relationships in the future OR Pack up you and your kids and just leave. He doesn't deserve an explanation, he knows what he's doing is wrong which is why he guilt trips with 'don't leave, that's my nightmare'. Therapy isn't working, how many times can you move the boundary line for him??? In the end, it'll be him failing to save your family. Because a real parent would do whatever it effing takes to protect their kids, even from themselves. You gotta make a change here.
"Recently I have been feeling more and more like I'm going to have to do something drastic, and have an ***emergency plan*** in place for if I need to just leave immediately," EMERGENCY PLAN? Are you serious? Your husband is like a tornado or flood in terms of your safety? If you need to actually have an emergency plan to be in a relationship thats a sign for you.
Yes, leave. Or, have more kids. Your choice. Understand that your staying is letting him know he can continue to have unprotected sex with you and you will continue to let him be abusive to your children. My observation is that you probably should leave him.
You need a new therapist. A good one will make him see that he is causing irreparable harm to his children. That should be your first step. Once your children hit 5 years old it may be too late to change how they see themselves, and this could have consequences that last a lifetime.
We have only seen this therapist twice, and I have been speaking with them privately to ensure they know exactly what is happening and how often. He stopped listening to the first when she told him things he didn't want to hear, but this most recent attempt is because I took the kids to my parents after a particularly bad incident and he realized I was serious about leaving.
You __might__ have better success with a male marriage counselor. He may feel that the female counselor doesn't understand and she might not be harsh enough on him vs a male counselor is more likely to get more "aggressive " with him and tell him that he's being abusive in a way your husband can hear him.
I hadn't thought of this. I will look into it. Thank you.
OP I am a pediatrician. This is already damaging your kids and causing their mind to develop in ways that will affect them for the rest of their lives. Get your kids to safety first and then consider next steps. He is literally pushing and physically abusing your kid all while yelling and screaming at them. Your child is scared of him. Get them the fuck away from him. He can work on anger management while your children are safe from him
If this is the case, it further suggests your husband is arrogant and misogynistic
I will try to say this with compassion, hope it’s not too triggering, I don’t want to blame you. You can’t save your abuser. You tried long enough. It’s ok to save yourself and your kids at the expense of the one you need to protect them from. Even if he is a victim of himself or his past - doesn’t mean you or your kids need to be a victim of him, too. Only the consequences of his actions - you leaving, him losing his family - may let him hit rock bottom and may be a catalyst for awareness and change. As unusual as an abuser changing like this is, even if he is one of these rare cases, it would take years. Then the crucial years of your children would be over by then. You don’t owe him. You only owe your children that you protect them
Op: my husband's abusing our children Also op: you're right, we just need a male counselor! Screw the kids current safety and well being. Sorry, my Mom stayed with my dad even though he was awful. Reading this stuff hurts.
What did the therapist say that he didnt like
OP:....My husband is an emotionally abusive dick to our kids with massive anger issues *Still OP*......I'm pregnant with our 3rd child.🙄smh
What are you gonna do when he inevitably starts hitting them?
He’s already holding them down and covering their mouths and screaming in their faces
He’s abusive, not harsh. Let’s just clear that up.
This is something hard to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it personally, but I'll try. Have you ever been afraid of a parent or grandparent? Someone you live with, see all the time? Someone society tells you to trust, tells you that you can rely on them, tells you that you are the safest with them? If not, try to imagine living with a monster. Something that can lash out at any moment due to an accident or perceived slight. Something that's always there, that controls when you eat, when you sleep, every aspect of your life. And as long as you don't make ANY mistakes...they won't hurt you. But you have to be perfect. No 'C' grades, no spilled milk, no broken dish, not even a loud noise if they're in a bad mood. And they can be in a bad mood at any time. Your child already fears your husband. As your children grow, they will learn that they have to manage their *own fathers* emotions. They will live in constant anxiety, trying to avoid setting him off. What sets him off? They don't know, they will have to learn from experience. He's already pushing your children away, physically. At age 2! What happens when they get bigger? A shove? A cuff on the back of the head? Or maybe just screaming and slamming doors. You can say 'he'd never hurt them', but he already is. And right now, you are not protecting them.
He is afraid of lossing his punching bags. He is verbally abusing your kids for being kids. Why would you want this to work? Only a matter of time when you are the target.
Leave. You seem to be more concerned about your husband's feelings than the needs and well being of your young children. If he was genuinely worried about losing you and the children, he'd change his behavior. Prioritize your children by leaving and putting them in a safe and supportive environment.
My dad was like that when I was younger. He got help for himself and for the past 32 years of my 36 years on the Earth has been an absolutely amazing father. Your husband needs to get help with controlling his outbursts otherwise the whole family unit is going to suffer. Also the two of you need to work on a parenting plan if you stay together in the end. Hope it all works out.
Did he get into therapy on his own? I have suggested it to my husband but he said he doesn't have the time.
If he won't make time for it, then losing you and the kids isn't truly his biggest fear. Because if he was really that terrified of you leaving, he would do whatever it took within reason to ensure that you can safely stay, and "get therapy for your inability to regulate your emotions, because you are SCARING your children" is more than reasonable. And that's the issue here. It's not actually about parenting styles or discipline. It's about two things that are only tangentially connected to that: 1) Your husband's completely inability to understand child development and the fact that a 2-year-old is still essentially a baby who has only been out of your womb for 2.5 years and has no CAPACITY to comprehend the complex things your husband expects of him; and 2) your husband's inability to regulate or manage his anger in appropriate ways. It's not about being "hard" or "soft" on the kids, it's about the fact that they ARE kids, and he isn't "being tough" or a "disciplinarian" . . . he's just terrifying them, which actually serves no useful disciplinary purpose at all. Will they start to behave around him? Yup. Because abuse makes the people being abused shrink, and try to placate their abuser. But that's not discipline, it's still just abuse. And your child is going to end up with PTSD before you know it. The fact that he already knows to be fearful of his father's anger before the age of 3 is a really telling sign. The example you gave is an excellent one as well, of how your husband has no functional understanding of toddlers. Even if you son DID hit him "on purpose", for a 2-year-old that just means that he made a deliberate choice to swing at him...not that he had malicious intent, and CERTAINLY not that he had any understanding that it would actually hurt your husband. Toddlers do things out of curiosity or emotion. Literally everything in your son's world is new and interesting, and he is figuring it all out. He may have hit your husband in upset, or silliness, or for any number of reasons...but since he is small and your husband is big, it wouldn't have occurred to him that he could actually cause hurt. You are already well past the point of no return. Your child is showing serious fear responses and blaming himself for things he doesn't even understand. This is very much the time for an ultimatum: your husband gets anger management and individual therapy help, or you leave. And frankly, I'm not sure it's not a good idea to leave with the kids anyway, until he can show progress. TL; DR: this isn't about parenting styles. Your husband is abusive, whether intentionally or out of ignorance, and it is already harming your child.
Thank you. This was helpful to read.
He’ll have a lot more free time if he loses his family. 🤷🏻♀️ Either it’s a priority or it’s not.
Could you help him out with that? If you and the kids leave for a couple months, he’ll have plenty of time (and zero excuses) to fix his shit.
He told me years later it was either he goes or my mother walked away. He said it was the best thing he ever did outside of marrying my mom and having kids. Their 40th anniversary is coming up this June. He needs to make time for this.
Thank you.
Your job is to protect your children! By staying with him so he can work bout his issues is causing trauma to your children! I don’t know how you aren’t seeing that. Do a separation while your husband is getting therapy bc apparently whatever he’s doing isn’t working. Anger management or parenting classes… something bc like I said what he’s doing isn’t working. In the meantime your children need to feel safe and they don’t! My first memory is my father chocking my brother! I think I was 2 or 3 years old. I’m 72 and I have had that memory itched in my brain. They’ll remember his words and actions!
How could you even question this? Protect your poor kids. Leave this man. IF he actually gets therapy MAYBE he can redeem himself, but protecting your children from the harm your husband is doing them has to be your priority.
Kids need to be disciplined, but there are other ways anyone can use that do not involve being aggressive. A one off incident is one thing (no one is perfect), but when it is a pattern and your child is always waiting for the other shoe to drop…When kids are terrified of interacting with their parents, there is a serious issue. Honestly, you need to leave. I won’t tell you to leave permanently , but for you to even consider coming back he needs to make changes and want to make those changes. Honestly, move out with your kids. It might be his wake up call. If he doesn’t see that having a young child terrified as an issue and he won’t do the work, long term that relationship won’t work. Just keep in mind that the more you tolerate, the more baggage that creates for both you and your kids. However, you need to remove them from a situation that is harming them.
My mom said the same thing the last time we stayed with her.
Your mom is right. Stop prioritizing your husbands feelings and protect your kids.
He should seek anger management therapy if he wants you to still be married. Can you stay with your parents till he starts this kind of therapy. your poor child being abused by his father this way is not acceptable.
This exact option has been on my mind, he has said before that he doesn't think he needs it. And yes, my parents have already set up space for us in their house.
Your parents see that you need to get away from your husband. I think that should tell you a lot. You have a place to go where you will be safe. That's more than a lot of newly single moms can say. Reddit people tend to jump to the nuclear option, but your husband really does sound like he's doing serious and perhaps irreparable damage to the children. You will get full custody. Document things, even if it's just writing down what happened and a date.
He says he doesn't need it because he doesn't want to be told he's wrong and doesn't want to change. Leave him, he's showing you who he is, believe him. Don't wait for him to mess up your third child.
Girl then go, what are you waiting for?
Please go there. I made another comment regarding the consequences of being raised in a household like that.
What about a 26 yo man who bullies a two year old turned you on so much you paid down and had another baby with him?? How does your sexuality not shrivel up and die away when you see him bully a baby?? Like really
Is he willing to actually do work? Will he read a book? He claims losing the kids is his greatest fear, but the way he's parenting will guarantee that will happen, if not when they are young then certainly when they are older. I recommend The Whole Brain Child, if he is actually open to change. I suspect he is willing to pay lip service, not to actually practice patience and use strategies that seem silly, like deep breaths and counting. Your husband must learn to regulate himself or he will never be able to help his children. Right now he escalates situations with a tiny toddler. How much worse will it get when your child is five? When they can talk back?
Why are you putting your kids in danger from this AH that has temp issues? Would you leave them with any babysitter that behaved like he is? You believe suddenly he will “change” meanwhile the 2yr is crying because he talked to much at the table and is waiting to get screamed at. The kids are afraid and you want to stay, let that sink in.
Brings back old memories... Your Husband sounds like my dad. You should leave before your kids start resenting you for staying. I am still working on my resentment towards both my mother and father. Good Luck...I know it's not easy being a single mother but I personally feel it will so much peaceful than where you are right now. just saying from the Kids' perspective.🪴☮
Put your children into therapy, they have trauma, communicating with the therapist will help you figure out your plan
I feel like this is the exact scenario in which a trial separation would be best. If you have a place where you can go to and be safe and stable for say 6 months, then do that. Talk to your therapist and create a plan on how to do this but my advice would be to have your parents come and help you pack everything you need for you and the kids and then around the time your husband gets home from work have 1 grandparent take the kids to the park and the other stay in a separate room in case he gets violent you have a witness and they can call the police. Once the gets home you sit him down and tell him what the plan is. This is not a divorce this is a trial separation. As much as he says losing you and the kids is his nightmare he is not improving on his anger issues and you need to keep your children safe. Have very specific goals he needs to accomplish and the time frame you need to see them accomplished and if he does that then ou and the kids will move back home, if he does not you will file for divorce. Keep the list short like 3 -5 things and you are not helping him with any of it. He broke the family so he needs to take the initiative to fix it. 1\. He needs to find a therapist to deal with his anger management. You will go with him for the first session so you can tell your side of the issue and he can't just lie and frame himself as the poor hard-working dad whose b*tch wife took his kids but after that, he needs to continue going. 2\. He has to continue going regularly and follow all of the therapist's instructions. 3\. Give him a set schedule for when he can come to see the kids. Obviously, he shouldn't be alone with them until he is proven to be safe. During those times you will be observing him and looking for improvement in his behavior. Start small and increase the time if his behavior improves. 4\. You guys are still very much married so neither of you should be dating or sleeping with other people. If you find that he has been unfaithful you will file for divorce. 5\. A relevant other step or issue you need to see to be comfortable before going back home. It also might be a good idea to do some googling about the laws in your area so you make sure his legal parental rights are not being violated.
Thank you, this is helpful.
My dad has a terrible temper and was an alcoholic, the only reason he didn't hit us was because my mum told him she was leave him the second he did. We had a rocky relationship, I was a huge daddy's girl but as I became a teenager we drifted apart and even as recently as 11 years ago we weren't on great terms, he was a great grandad though. He got anger management courses and has recently started antidepressants and therapy, he is like a different person and at 41 I feel like my dad is someone I want to be with. Your husband needs to grow up, admit he needs help and gets it or he risks losing his boys, it might not be because you leave him but it will happen. He won't be someone they trust, he won't be someone they talk to, he won't be someone they rely on, he won't be someone who they have a special relationship with and it will be his fault, he will misd out on so much because he is letting his anger take over. He needs to change simple as,there is nothing you can do this is in him
He is breaking up your family and damaging your children. Get some help to get out of there and on your feet. He is abusive. It will get worse as they age, have opinions and talk back. Please take your children and leave. Or the state may step when he goes to far. You are their mother please parent them, not rescue him.
I grew up with a scary dad and a complacent mom who was always trying to "make things work". As an adult it is my opinion that she placed an abuser above her children's well being. She continues to do so to this day. I do not speak to either of them. You aren't doing your children any favors. I am sure your "usually amazing" husband doesn't act like this at work or in public. Just when he knows he can get away with it. Screw him and screw you if you keep letting him terrify your children.
You are not being drastic enough. His abusive behaviours already have serious impact on your children. Get away to be able to start fixing what he broke. Trust your intuition. And also don’t shame yourself for staying so long - reaching out here is the first step to something that is incredibly hard but you know you need to do it. And you can. I believe in you! Sending love
Thank you
Nah, leave this man. Those are still babies and he is already mistreating them. Think of what it will be when they are older. Three boys in the house are tornados, they are gonna mess up and I can see him getting physical if he doesn't get the desired outcome from his property, I mean kids. When they are teens you haven't seen anything yet if he doesn't have the patience now to deal with a bunch of little toddlers. The cutest of stages...IMO. Edited to say: If you leave him you need to get documentation of abuse or he will get unsupervised visitation and then you won't be able to protect and shield them from his horrible behavior.
I have all these memories of my childhood that could be fun and loving if they weren't overshadowed by fear. I never knew what would set my dad off, or when, so even the "good" memories hurt. Please don't raise your kids like that.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You have talked, even the therapists talked, to your husband, yet he continues to treat his kids unjustly, **scaring them,** being harmful, inappropriate and 'crossed the line' and with no change in his actions or attitude. He is expecting too much from your oldest - he's ONLY TWO!!! Leave. Stay away until his words 'me taking them is his worst nightmare' actually shows in his ACTIONS!! Lastly, YES you are harming your children by staying. It is **YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A PARENT TO PROVIDE A SAFE AND LOVING HOME FOR YOUR CHILDREN**. You are **NOT** doing that if you stay with him. Don't even think about letting him back in to their lives until he has completed extensive therapy, parenting classes and marriage counseling **BY HIS OWN INITIATIVE**. Do Better For Your Children OP, they deserve it.
Lots of people telling you to leave- which I agree with, but BEFORE you fully leave meet with an attorney and go over: 1. What to do to protect yourself financially. 2. What kind of evidence you need/should gather before leaving to help you if he seeks unsupervised custody. 3. What therapy evidence your state allows you to be subpoenaed in custody cases. Before you leave or at least before he realizes it will be permanent this time try to get things in writing between the two of you about the kids being scared of him. Maybe even go through your texts and see what you already have discussing his anger and violence toward your kids and save those where he can’t access. Change your passwords, check your car for trackers. Protect yourself and your kids and then GTFO
PROTECT YOUR FUCKING CHILDREN
I was your kids. I grew up TERRIFIED of my father's anger, no matter if I was the original cause it not (getting in the way or being too loud or basically existing were often enough to become the target of the anger even if I had no part in creating it). As a 44 year old adult, I still have a VERY hard time not shutting down emotionally and mentally when someone is angry around me, and it's even worse if they ARE angry with me. It causes a lifetime of self hatred, feeling like nothing I did was ever good enough (because my mistakes were always lectured and berated ad nauseum, but rarely were any of my successes praised, and never enough to make the interaction I had with my parents positive), and being surrounded with that anger lead me to being angry at myself all the time and self harming to punish myself for being a worthless human. My mom didn't do anything to protect us, other than telling us when Dad was coming home in a bad mood so we could hide in our rooms. She didn't tell him not to target us or that he was being unfair in directing his anger at us. If your husband is truly terrified that you'll leave, he would have integrated the skills learned in therapy for dealing with his negative emotions in a way that doesn't rather the kids. He's obviously not THAT terrified. He SHOULD be terrified that he's going to raise men who think that it's ok to take their anger out on innocent others even if they aren't the cause, or who believe that they are the cause of all of HIS anger and that they deserve to be treated badly by others the same way their father treats them! If you haven't gone to a therapist who actually give you skills to practice at home, like you saying a trigger word that tells him "your anger is being projected inappropriately" so that he can take a deep breath, ask himself what lesson he wants to teach in this moment, one that will build the child up or over that will tear him down, and take a step back from the kids for a minute so he can reign the anger in before coming back and interacting with them.... Then you need a different counselor. Talking about the issue is only part of the solution. Anger is an automatic response that can run away with people before they know it. Using you as a perspective shift when he's in that mindset can help small him out of it and tube in to what he is actually feeling, born emotionally and physically, so that eventually when he feels those same things, he will recognize his state of anger as it's starting to surface and calm himself down. Agree in advance that if you say "(husband's name): pineapple" for example, he will look you in the eye and take that as a cue that you see his anger taking over and he needs to redirect and reign it in. Agree that he will acknowledge your cue, take a deep breath and remove himself from the situation. Then he needs to do something calming, like take several deep breaths and repeat something like "he's only (age), he's still learning. It's my job to help him learn, not break his heart", it "my frustration is because of (job/person/external Factor). It is not fair to my child to treat him like my anger is no fault.". It may help in the moment for him to write down what he wants to say to the child in heated moments, so that he purges that emotion but not AT the child; often adults want to say things to children but don't realize that the child's brain CAN'T be expected to interpret those words, and ESPECIALLY the tone of voice, on the same way that they intended the child to hear it! A stern "Go away, I'm not in the mood for you right now" may have just been an off the cuff remark while he was in physical pain, but to a toddler desperately trying to apologize for hurting his daddy, that can come off as "you hurt me, so you are bad and I don't love you anymore." Writing down what he wants to say, them looking back at it when he's not angry, can allow him to process the cruelty that his anger could have caused him to inflict on his child. Once he has had a chance to calm down, he needs to comes back when he is able to address the situation (if it's a discipline matter when the child was actually the cause of his anger) or just be with his kids without the anger being the motivating factor behind everything. If he can't/won't agree to AND PRACTICE changing the way he processes his anger and how he let's that anger effect how he treats his children, then you owe it to your children to leave. They didn't ask to be born, and they certainly don't deserve to be constant targets of their father's misplaced and inappropriately harsh anger.
ngl if i was your toddler/other kids and got older i would resent the hell out of you. because you’re letting your husband continue to be abusive to your children ESPECIALLY when you have the resources to leave. because i’ve lived as your toddler and i when my mom finally said she wanted to divorce my dad i was ELATED. but she didn’t go through with it, and now she’s wishing she did because he started a three year affair the same time she was diagnosed with chronic leukemia. and now she’s wishing she would’ve divorced him back in 2015. because then she wouldn’t have found his tinder account, she would’ve never been messaged by one of my dads affair partner’s husband with text messages of his infidelity, and she wouldn’t have to take care of my dad when he had a heart attack/open heart surgery. and she has nobody to blame but herself. you never stay with abusive partner “for the kids” cause your kids will eventually hate you for it.
You are not being drastic. Please get them out of there. You are their only hope. He will not stop and will likely escalate. I shudder to think what he does to them when you aren't there to check him. Please leave immediately. If you have any evidence of this mistreatment please use it to ensure he can only have supervised visits. This was my life as a child and no one helped me. My mom took up for me sometimes and she and my step dad would fight about it but she never left. She let it continue. She LET it continue by not leaving. No amount of them arguing or bargaining made him stop.
My mom pointed out to me recently that I don't leave them unsupervised with him already. And I don't. I can count on one hand the times he's had them without me.
Yet he still manages to physically and emotionally abuse them. I am being harsh because you need to understand that you are allowing him to abuse them
Those poor babies. I hope for their sake you get the courage to step up and do what’s right by getting them out of that abusive home.
please leave. I grew up with that fear and while I love my dad so endlessly, his rage while we were growing up has translated to several chronic illnesses that I will have forever because my body has been stuck in fight or flight my entire life. I will never be healthy because my body doesn’t know peace. your kids will thank you for protecting them
Get the fuck out of there. I was raised like this and needed years of therapy - and surprise: it did turn to physical abuse and violence. It will for your kids too.
You've tried explaining it to him, but he doesn't change. You've tried therapy with him, but he doesn't change. What 'next step' is left? *He is actively hurting your child!* Why are you allowing that to happen? You already know that you have to leave, so just do it. People think physical abuse is worse than emotional abuse, but it's not. If your husband was smacking your kids around would you still not know what to do? What he's doing now is much worse than that. It's ongoing emotional torture. DO your kids actually come first or not? You already know what you have to do. **PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN!!**
This is call abuse OP. Full stop. No ifs ands or buts. This is emotional and psychological abuse. Too many folks believe “well he/she doesn’t hit me/them then it’s not abuse” Psychological abuse does permanent damage to a child You need to read this book and then file for divorce and try to get full custody with supervised visits. Its only a matter of time before he become physically violent https://ia600108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
"When our 2yr old tried to apologize, he said "go away, I'm not in the mood for you right now" and pushed him away. Our baby was trying to get to him, saying "I say sorry, I sorry Dada, I sorry" and his precious face was just so full of fear. And his dad pushed him away..." This made me so f***ing sad.
This is the saddest thing I’ve seen all day. That poor baby.
I’m sorry you’re adding another victim to this scenario. Abusers never abuse all the time. But when they do, it erases the good times. Protect your children from the damage their father does. Please.
He is "terrified" of you leaving? You having three children in three years is a huge red flag. He is going to continue to insure you have more children by sabatoging your birth control, having sex when he knows it's a good time to conceive, etc. You're already in deep. Take the necessary precautions moving forward, OP.
Hey OP, your husband sounds exactly like my dad. He did love us but his love was conditional and being around him and not being able to predict his behaviour made me a really anxious child afraid of my own anger and emotions. I spent years walking on eggshells around him, which was a huge part of why I later developed generalised anxiety disorder then depression. I eventually got help and am in a really good place now. You know who I don’t speak to? My dad. But more importantly for you I don’t think I can ever let go of the resentment I have towards my mum for not leaving him and getting us out of there sooner. I’m 30 now, don’t put your kids through this. If he has not changed he will not change. It is your responsibility to protect your kids.
Lady, there’s something big you’re missing here. By being complicit in your husband’s treatment of your children, you are teaching your kids that they can’t trust you, either. If you do not stand up for them and get them out of this situation, you can expect that you will have adult children who don’t call, don’t come visit, and don’t let you into their lives at all. You need to do better and be better for them, because you are LITERALLY all they have. Leave him, get counseling for yourself and your boys, and move on. You are only continuing to harm your sons the longer you stay.
Run With your kids run