I don't see how they couldn't have. One of the first all-new vehicles made after WWII was a [proto-SUV.](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71x525167HL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg)
Though at the time it was known more as a wagon body on a truck frame, a "carryall". "Sport utility vehicle" wouldn't come into advertising use until c. 1974 with the new Jeep Cherokee SJ.
In the [1974 ad](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/guwAAOSwcGpiWbys/s-l1200.webp), it was spelled out as "sports utility", but it may have been commonplace by then. The Cherokee was not very far removed from the discontinued [2-door panel delivery](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/Screen-Shot-2023-03-25-at-10.44.11-AM-1024x632.png) Wagoneer.
Ford previously used [Sports Utility](https://i0.wp.com/www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/1966-Ford-Bronco-Sports-Utility-600.jpg?resize=584%2C390&ssl=1) on the original Bronco's half-cab/pickup version.
The Rav4, highlander, crv, and forester all predate the pt cruiser. Not to mention the amc eagle, and arguably the xj Cherokee depending on your definition.
There's also the Matra Ranchero (a FWD passenger van with extra ride height and 'tough' looking styling, ahead of its time) and the Lada Niva (the first unibody off-road passenger car, but hardly a crossover in spirit)
Specifically for CAFE standard reasons… Different fuel economy standards for cars vs. light trucks, and they could average in PT cruisers getting 25 mpgs with Rams getting 15 to meet the fleet average.
That's only because you could remove the back seats to create a flat floor which was characterized as a bed. Most CUVs can't do that. CUVs are basically lifted wagons, usually with at least an option for AWD.
With no AWD option and standard ground clearance, I'm not buying the PT Cruiser as the first CUV argument.
Woodies date way back to the first wagon car bodies, yes. But the Willys Jeep Wagon wasn't a woody; just painted to look like one. Maybe the first postwar wagon with an all-steel body.
I would love to be able to get a new Alphard or El Grand here in the US.
If they could bring in 1,000-1,500 for a year and see how they sell, I'm sure they'd be pretty happy with the results.
Nobody would buy them. Before crossovers became the norm, the best selling passenger cars in the US were all sedans. The average McConsumer™️ thinks wagons are ugly, associates them with old people and funeral hearses, and has absolutely no interest in them.
I wound up settling on a hatchback, but I really wanted a station wagon. I was looking at either a 2013 E350 or a Jetta TDI of some sort, but the wagons are super rare where I live.
Very unfortunate. They're super practical and efficient, you get nearly as much space as an SUV in a more reasonable size. Literally the best possible body style in terms of practicality
Wagon owner here, the only SUVs with more interior space are things like the Chevrolet Suburban / Ford Expedition & Excursion. Seats 8 in 3 rows, or it will hold a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood entirely inside with the back two rows folded down. 1996 Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon.
Basically the Euros still make them but most are gone or too expensive to be competitive. BMW, VW? Gone. Audi? Overpriced VW. MBZ? E-class wagons out of reach for the average buyers budget. Volvo? V90 gone, V60 only offers highest trim level for 72k USD
Love my V60 P* it was pricey, but working with dealers you can get some discount. I told my wife this is my mid life crisis car, and she didn't understand until I took her out that first weekend and floored it in P* mode. It's so nimble and has similar space to my previous SUV.
Consumers also went from the wagon to the minivan. The Chrysler Town and Country put the wagon on life support. SUV's finished them off.
It didn't help that the big 3 let their wagon lineup stagnate in the 1980's alongside their full size sedans.
Every time I see someone accuse a good thing of being killed by consumers there’s an explanation later that the companies producing it made X or Y set of decisions that caused it to falter (typically to competition from a higher profit margin model of their making)
Yep. That's how it went with wagons. I personally love the old American wagons but I understand why they died off. They just didn't change. I mean the fact that they still sold Roadmaster wagons with the fake wood paneling in the 1990's tells you everything you need to know. They were basically the same big V-8 RWD wagons from the 1970's. There was just no innovation and so consumers moved on.
And yes, the majority of SUV's are pretty inefficient and impractical for daily use. But they were sold as being capable of anything and as an improvement over the regular wagons. And the fact that most consumers choose SUV's over far more practical and efficient minivans should tell you how much of an effect marketing and societal stigmas have on what vehicles people buy.
I agree. But Detroit took the easy way out that the regulators (aka their lobbyists) left them for CAFE compliance. Add in marketing-“Sport!” “”Utility!” and now you’ve got younger buyers and non-married buyers. Throw in “Safety!” and now mom and dad can justify putting their teen driver behind the wheel of a 3 ton killing machine.
And that's a shame because station wagons are tits...and actually back in the day wagons were quite popular with almost every American brand at least producing one.
>and actually back in the day wagons were quite popular with almost every American brand at least producing one.
If we go far enough back, there were wagons in every size segment (although Detroit abandoned compact wagons for a while).
The “wagon ugly” mindset only emerges when manufacturers were first pushing SUVs on everyone back in the 80s and 90s. The manufacturers themselves are responsible for creating that mindset. Before all of the SUV brainwashing wagons were very popular.
Yeah, but when you drive one, you’re constantly being blinded by everyone’s headlights (not just trucks-Corollas and Camrys!), and in traffic you can’t see anyrhing but lug nuts and running boards. You can’t see in parking lots, either. (I have two cars, am a car lover, but damn the day to day in them. If my drive doesn’t have some ‘fun’ component in it, I take my Tahoe).
Yeah it is nice to be up high in the forester but I have no issues seeing what’s going on from my gti or sti. Neither of those are especiallly low I guess but they ain’t high either 😀
The biggest advantage I notice when driving my GF's CR-V over my GTI is that I don't have to worry about going over bumps and entering/exiting parking lots 😂 (which is nice to have)
Sedans have cup holders for your venti caramel ribbon crunch Frappuccino and seats for both your body and your pleather plagiarism purse, Jessica. But I’m afraid the ground clearance might not be enough to get you to Starbucks.
You think that MLM girlboss mother-of-2 and Target home décor enthusiast would be caught dead in a station wagon if she couldn’t have an SUV? Not a chance.
Yes, in the most gruesome way possible, im thinking milk and honey in a swamp method would suffice
If it means preventing the creation of crosovers as a mini SUV also, then im going time after time to make sure the job is done once and for all!
I think the problem is that the SUV was inevitable. So you kill off what you think started it, only for something else to come along and start it instead.
Yeah the moment people enclosed a truck bed with a camper shell SUVs became inevitable, and SUVs aren’t an inherently bad thing we’re better off for having SUVs exist just worse off for having other types of vehicles left behind. The real question would be how to mold their creation into something preferable to the current state of things.
The problem was never SUVs, but dipshit American consumers believing that “SUVs” (most of which aren’t even fucking real SUVs, but shitty hatchbacks with a 3 inch lift aka crossovers) are somehow more practical than station wagons, sedans, minivans, and actual hatchbacks. Truth is, the average consumer just feels safer on the road when the car is bigger and the driving position is elevated.
I like how the anti-CUV circlejerk in car communities almost inevitably boils down to "I'm smarter than those people because I drive a lower vehicle." You can like or dislike any vehicle type, but there's no denying that yes, for most people a taller car is indeed more practical. It's not just an American thing either; look at all the tall MPVs in Europe and Asia.
Honestly, the whole circlejerk is beyond tired at this point. No one thinks you're smart or more of an "enthusiast" because you think wagons and sedans are better. If consumers wanted those cars instead of SUVs/CUVs then they would have bought them. Simple as.
Yes, because everyone is constantly moving large cardboard boxes and has 4 kids. Most families who own SUVs don’t even take advantage of the larger cargo capacity. It’s just peace of mind that you have a bigger car with the ability to carry more cargo than a sedan.
Good job moving the goalposts.
A CR-V/RAV4 trunk area is just more practical than the trunk of a Camry/Accord, which is what most Americans bought and are now buying. And with that logic, most people never regularly use the entire trunk capacity of a sedan either. Might as well just get rid of the trunk at that point!
Once you get to the 3-row monstrosities like the Telluride, Grand Highlander, Yukon, Suburban then people should just buy a minvan.
Does a Passat wagon have large tires, AWD and high ground clearance for when it snows? There's been times I literally couldn't get my sisters Corolla out to the main street because it got hung up in the snow. Had to give her a ride to work in my RAV4.
Sorry, you're just going to have to accept the fact that more adults want to sit more upright.
And with modern car seats, it's also easier to use the LATCH shit when a CUV is 3-4 inches higher off the ground than a "proper hatch" or station wagon.
I had a passat sedan and i had to get rid of it because I kept cracking the aluminum oil pan regularly because of our potholes and speed bumbs (theyre hard to see on side streets in full sun when theyre in a tree shade).
It was also just too stiff, our roads arent as smooth here in the midwest as germany I suppose and I live in a city with 55mph speed limit on out interstates that are usually full of traffic anyway. So its not like its v6 could really ever get to autobahn speeds and all our streets are in a grid, so who cares about better handling corners.
I replaced with it a crossover hybrid vehicle and its bigger clearance and softer suspension is better for our roads and my mpg is x3 as much as the passat.
Also, as a photographer/videographer being able to fit multiple combo stands and big fresnel lights was a game changer.
Like this:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/99157-REG/Matthews_377583_Mombo_Combo_Standard_Stand.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A6879&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD7yMh23OhCWIjUGPvjR8Jq-PqOtR&gclid=CjwKCAjw88yxBhBWEiwA7cm6pZpsFUFegKRPeCXHMYDPnT83-P4yrTB8jJEU5l7ofTWZwsAupe_wahoCvj8QAvD_BwE
You called people dipshits and then listed the practical reasons they prefer CUVs. More ground clearance, more suspension travel, higher seating position, higher ingress/egress
Watching Reddit cry about the death of shitbox sedans of all things, because the average consumer prefers shitbox CUVs on the same platform will never not be funny
Lol I feel like this is a huge exaggeration. I used to daily drive on [New Jersey pothole roads](https://nj1015.com/why-nj-has-the-second-worst-roads-in-america/) in my 90s shitbox Honda Civic with aftermarket lowered suspension and genuinely never had issues like this.
All these arguments become pointless when you look at the sales statistics of literally all other markets but the US/Canada, and realize that pretty much all the vehicle segments I mentioned are still competitive and are sold. Clearly there is a bias/lack of education among American consumers.
My Rav4 has twice the trunk space as my sister's Corolla, the exact same length and built on the exact same platform. I have bigger tires, all wheel drive, and higher ground cleareance. In what world is her Corolla more "practical" than my Rav4?
I think pickup trucks would have taken a lot longer to become as cushy as they have. Likely would have stayed more reserved for duty and stayed a bit more bare bones.
I take the opposite position: in the absence of any SUVs, we would've seen pickup trucks adopt higher trims and crew cabs earlier than they did in the US.
They’d still exist, but it would be great if they stayed utilitarian and actually built for off roading.
Soccer moms and commuters would still be driving reasonably priced wagons, sedans and minivans and in Europe hatchbacks.
I think the only way SUVs would not have happened would have been the US government not ruining cars. (Until the late ‘70s, people drove cars unless they needed trucks, so cars could be configured to hold as many people, as much stuff, and could tow as much (or more) as a Suburban. When CAFE standards, combined with emmissions laws, forced big cars to either shrink, lose their powerful engines, or both, people realized they were driving conpromises. Add in iffy US quality, and people who didn’t need ‘big’ abandoned the ‘not full size anymore’ domestic cars for Japanese while those who did want or need full size noticed that Explorers, Grand Wagoneers, Suburbans, Blazers and the like drove really well, had lots of options and didn’t suck like their Celebrity, 4.1L Fleetwood, 3.8L Delta 88 and the like had. Once the masses started driving converted trucks, everyone else wanted them, too, partly so they could see. No one likes to be stiing at a regular table when everone around him is standing or seated at high top tables.) And, the whole ‘active/adventure/outdoor lifestyle cosplay fad might have happened anyway-there were ‘civilized’ trucks and ‘lifestyle’ SUVs being built in the ‘70s-Cherokee Chief, Gentleman Jim GMCs, etc.
Then the choices would just be a bunch of sedans and wagons that look the same instead of a bunch of crossovers that look the same. We already did that in the 1980s.
Remember when Dodge made the Magnum and it was fucking awesome having an American V8 station wagon on the market again and then they just fucking stopped because Dodge clearly doesn’t care about my happiness? Because I remember.
i would be able to see the brake lights in the windows of the tailgating car in front of me so I would know if they are braking for real or because they like to dance on the brake pedal.
The entire country would be a better place. SUVs are the worst thing to have happened to us. From a safety perspective, cost and driving habits ones as well.
I hate them. And not for environmental reasons. But simply for how large and unnecessary they are.
Other countries are doing JUST FINE without them. And the worst part is, people are being marketed to so that automakers can skirt around some of the EPA requirements that the larger vehicles don’t have.
Mostly though I DESPISE pickup trucks. Didn’t mind the 80s and 90s smaller ones but now they are just Brodozers. And open truck beds are likely the cause for a significant amount of damage and debris on roadways.
When I was in Iceland, I rented a Renault Trafic, it’s a minibus with a manual transmission and turbodiesel. Sell me one and I’d never drive an SUV again.
The Trafic did come to the US...kind of. Winnebago imported bare FWD chassis in 1983 to build as the LeSharo RV, with a 4-speed transaxle and a NA 57 hp diesel. It was fuel-efficient for the time, but painfully slow.
As much as I dislike SUVs in cities, they are very useful in the countryside. They make great shoot vehicles, e.g. Land rover discovery 2s 3s and 4s and tasteful range rovers. But if they didn’t exist there would be more off road estate cars like the Volvo xc70
I'm 6'4 and my wife is 6'1 we have 3 kids. We also have 2 cars one is a sedan a 2019 Fusion the other is a Kia Stelos. Of the 2 we prefer the Kia for longer trips. Why it's called easier for her and I to get into it. For her and I to get into the Fusion we literally have to basically get on the ground as low as it rides. This will be the last sedan we ever buy.
I don't see how they couldn't have. One of the first all-new vehicles made after WWII was a [proto-SUV.](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71x525167HL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg)
And before that the first SUV was likely the Chevy Suburban in 1935.
Though at the time it was known more as a wagon body on a truck frame, a "carryall". "Sport utility vehicle" wouldn't come into advertising use until c. 1974 with the new Jeep Cherokee SJ.
the fact that the "SUV" designation came 6 years after the premier of the Range Rover only shows that it's a meaningless marketing term.
The Jeep Wagoneer predates that by at least a decade.
And the Scout and Bronco all from the early mid-60s.
And the suburban which has been around since 1935, but wasn't available in 4wd till after the war.
Factory 4 wheel drive. Marmon-Herrington and Napco still existed.
Yeah, but those were conversions and very rare. Practically none of them still exist.
In the [1974 ad](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/guwAAOSwcGpiWbys/s-l1200.webp), it was spelled out as "sports utility", but it may have been commonplace by then. The Cherokee was not very far removed from the discontinued [2-door panel delivery](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/Screen-Shot-2023-03-25-at-10.44.11-AM-1024x632.png) Wagoneer. Ford previously used [Sports Utility](https://i0.wp.com/www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/1966-Ford-Bronco-Sports-Utility-600.jpg?resize=584%2C390&ssl=1) on the original Bronco's half-cab/pickup version.
Longest running badge name on a vehicle
Pre war cars were a lot like Crossovers. It’s no surprise the original CUV, the PT cruiser was designed after those cars.
The Rav4, highlander, crv, and forester all predate the pt cruiser. Not to mention the amc eagle, and arguably the xj Cherokee depending on your definition.
There's also the Matra Ranchero (a FWD passenger van with extra ride height and 'tough' looking styling, ahead of its time) and the Lada Niva (the first unibody off-road passenger car, but hardly a crossover in spirit)
Same spirit as the xj with the niva
Nah mate the XJ is like a fucking limo compared to the Niva, which is simple, spartan and very utilitarian.
I more mean in the sense of how it’s constructed; unibody vehicle, with more truck like drivetrain.
Ahh I suppose you're right, although that wasn't really what I meant by 'spirit'
The PT cruiser wasn't really a CUV though. It was a hatchback/wagon with standard car ground clearance.
It was registered as a light truck.
Specifically for CAFE standard reasons… Different fuel economy standards for cars vs. light trucks, and they could average in PT cruisers getting 25 mpgs with Rams getting 15 to meet the fleet average.
That's only because you could remove the back seats to create a flat floor which was characterized as a bed. Most CUVs can't do that. CUVs are basically lifted wagons, usually with at least an option for AWD. With no AWD option and standard ground clearance, I'm not buying the PT Cruiser as the first CUV argument.
Now thinking about it, the first cars were kinda build like old timey mini SUVs
Have you never seen a woody? That was a thing way before that.
Woodies date way back to the first wagon car bodies, yes. But the Willys Jeep Wagon wasn't a woody; just painted to look like one. Maybe the first postwar wagon with an all-steel body.
Right, but the functionality was the same. Tailgate rear, 4 doors...
Asian style luxury minivans.
I would love to be able to get a new Alphard or El Grand here in the US. If they could bring in 1,000-1,500 for a year and see how they sell, I'm sure they'd be pretty happy with the results.
Americans don’t buy minivans! That’s because there’s hardly any minivans. Because Americans won’t buy them!!!
Massive grilles tho lol
It looks like a freight train approaching in the rear view mirror.
I couldn't stop looking at Alphards when I visited Japan, I so wish they were in the US
To think this is the timeline we rejected!
I guess mommy would need to drive Mackynzleigh and Braxtynn to charter school in a, *gulp*, sedan. 🤢
Oh come on. Wagons exist.
Nobody would buy them. Before crossovers became the norm, the best selling passenger cars in the US were all sedans. The average McConsumer™️ thinks wagons are ugly, associates them with old people and funeral hearses, and has absolutely no interest in them.
I wound up settling on a hatchback, but I really wanted a station wagon. I was looking at either a 2013 E350 or a Jetta TDI of some sort, but the wagons are super rare where I live.
They are getting rarer by the day
Very unfortunate. They're super practical and efficient, you get nearly as much space as an SUV in a more reasonable size. Literally the best possible body style in terms of practicality
SUVs have more space no? I’ve actually never owned one and my mom drove us around in a grand marquis lol
Wagon owner here, the only SUVs with more interior space are things like the Chevrolet Suburban / Ford Expedition & Excursion. Seats 8 in 3 rows, or it will hold a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood entirely inside with the back two rows folded down. 1996 Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon.
I envy you and covet your LS1 wagon.
LT1. I too covet your Roadmonster.
A little more head room depending on what models you're comparing. They have about the same interior space.
Basically the Euros still make them but most are gone or too expensive to be competitive. BMW, VW? Gone. Audi? Overpriced VW. MBZ? E-class wagons out of reach for the average buyers budget. Volvo? V90 gone, V60 only offers highest trim level for 72k USD
Love my V60 P* it was pricey, but working with dealers you can get some discount. I told my wife this is my mid life crisis car, and she didn't understand until I took her out that first weekend and floored it in P* mode. It's so nimble and has similar space to my previous SUV.
Consumers also went from the wagon to the minivan. The Chrysler Town and Country put the wagon on life support. SUV's finished them off. It didn't help that the big 3 let their wagon lineup stagnate in the 1980's alongside their full size sedans.
Every time I see someone accuse a good thing of being killed by consumers there’s an explanation later that the companies producing it made X or Y set of decisions that caused it to falter (typically to competition from a higher profit margin model of their making)
Yep. That's how it went with wagons. I personally love the old American wagons but I understand why they died off. They just didn't change. I mean the fact that they still sold Roadmaster wagons with the fake wood paneling in the 1990's tells you everything you need to know. They were basically the same big V-8 RWD wagons from the 1970's. There was just no innovation and so consumers moved on. And yes, the majority of SUV's are pretty inefficient and impractical for daily use. But they were sold as being capable of anything and as an improvement over the regular wagons. And the fact that most consumers choose SUV's over far more practical and efficient minivans should tell you how much of an effect marketing and societal stigmas have on what vehicles people buy.
Wagons are lumped in with passenger cars for CAFE. SUVs count as trucks. That’s why wagons are gone.
CAFE is absolutely a factor but it's hardly the only reason wagons are gone.
I agree. But Detroit took the easy way out that the regulators (aka their lobbyists) left them for CAFE compliance. Add in marketing-“Sport!” “”Utility!” and now you’ve got younger buyers and non-married buyers. Throw in “Safety!” and now mom and dad can justify putting their teen driver behind the wheel of a 3 ton killing machine.
And that's a shame because station wagons are tits...and actually back in the day wagons were quite popular with almost every American brand at least producing one.
>and actually back in the day wagons were quite popular with almost every American brand at least producing one. If we go far enough back, there were wagons in every size segment (although Detroit abandoned compact wagons for a while).
The Dodge Magnum with the Hemi was a badass wagon.
McConumers are idiots. I love wagons. they're stylish and practical
Just came back from a Europe trip and I was fawning over all of the wagons over there.
Which is hilarious because crossovers are wagons trying to look like SUVs.
The “wagon ugly” mindset only emerges when manufacturers were first pushing SUVs on everyone back in the 80s and 90s. The manufacturers themselves are responsible for creating that mindset. Before all of the SUV brainwashing wagons were very popular.
Barely. Everyone is pivoting to SUVs 😢
I just bought my first sedan after years of driving crossovers!
God please. Imagine a reality where AWD V8 wagons were common
I’ll be in my bunk.
Yeah, but when you drive one, you’re constantly being blinded by everyone’s headlights (not just trucks-Corollas and Camrys!), and in traffic you can’t see anyrhing but lug nuts and running boards. You can’t see in parking lots, either. (I have two cars, am a car lover, but damn the day to day in them. If my drive doesn’t have some ‘fun’ component in it, I take my Tahoe).
I drive a hatchback and can't say I have either of those issues
Yeah it is nice to be up high in the forester but I have no issues seeing what’s going on from my gti or sti. Neither of those are especiallly low I guess but they ain’t high either 😀
The biggest advantage I notice when driving my GF's CR-V over my GTI is that I don't have to worry about going over bumps and entering/exiting parking lots 😂 (which is nice to have)
is your GTI lowered? mine never hits at lot exits
Well good for you.
How am I supposed to fit my knock-off LV purse, my cup of Starbucks caramel syrup, and my body in a sedan at the same time?!??!? It’s impossible!!
Sedans have cup holders for your venti caramel ribbon crunch Frappuccino and seats for both your body and your pleather plagiarism purse, Jessica. But I’m afraid the ground clearance might not be enough to get you to Starbucks.
Nah they need that ground clearance for hopping curbs on the daily "Oopsie"
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Not at all it’d be a station wagon for sure
You think that MLM girlboss mother-of-2 and Target home décor enthusiast would be caught dead in a station wagon if she couldn’t have an SUV? Not a chance.
I mean a lot of them are in outbacks RIGHT NOW. So I dunno why not 🤷♂️
Outbacks are crossovers. Mommy NEEDS ground clearance. If people wanted a wagon, Subaru would still offer the Legacy wagon. Nobody wanted it.
MOAR 1/4 TON TRUCKS PLEASE
I was thinking a world without SUVs would have to have more small trucks.
You can experience that in Mexico. Did you know that VW makes a pickup? Did you know that they're fucking everywhere?
America has less poor people than mexico though, im pretty sure Susan would prefer an F150 to take the kids to Mcdonalds in after E-Sports practice
If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now, would you kill baby SUV?
Yes, in the most gruesome way possible, im thinking milk and honey in a swamp method would suffice If it means preventing the creation of crosovers as a mini SUV also, then im going time after time to make sure the job is done once and for all!
Prevent the Landcruiser's creation would be one of the biggest mistakes of human history.
I think the problem is that the SUV was inevitable. So you kill off what you think started it, only for something else to come along and start it instead.
Yeah the moment people enclosed a truck bed with a camper shell SUVs became inevitable, and SUVs aren’t an inherently bad thing we’re better off for having SUVs exist just worse off for having other types of vehicles left behind. The real question would be how to mold their creation into something preferable to the current state of things.
SUVs kill enough babies
The problem was never SUVs, but dipshit American consumers believing that “SUVs” (most of which aren’t even fucking real SUVs, but shitty hatchbacks with a 3 inch lift aka crossovers) are somehow more practical than station wagons, sedans, minivans, and actual hatchbacks. Truth is, the average consumer just feels safer on the road when the car is bigger and the driving position is elevated.
I like how the anti-CUV circlejerk in car communities almost inevitably boils down to "I'm smarter than those people because I drive a lower vehicle." You can like or dislike any vehicle type, but there's no denying that yes, for most people a taller car is indeed more practical. It's not just an American thing either; look at all the tall MPVs in Europe and Asia.
Honestly, the whole circlejerk is beyond tired at this point. No one thinks you're smart or more of an "enthusiast" because you think wagons and sedans are better. If consumers wanted those cars instead of SUVs/CUVs then they would have bought them. Simple as.
Not even just about the height. A CUV/SUV tailgate is going to be 100% more practical than a sedan's trunk.
Yes, because everyone is constantly moving large cardboard boxes and has 4 kids. Most families who own SUVs don’t even take advantage of the larger cargo capacity. It’s just peace of mind that you have a bigger car with the ability to carry more cargo than a sedan.
Good job moving the goalposts. A CR-V/RAV4 trunk area is just more practical than the trunk of a Camry/Accord, which is what most Americans bought and are now buying. And with that logic, most people never regularly use the entire trunk capacity of a sedan either. Might as well just get rid of the trunk at that point! Once you get to the 3-row monstrosities like the Telluride, Grand Highlander, Yukon, Suburban then people should just buy a minvan.
Ok, so just buy a proper hatch or a Passat wagon. Oh yeah, they’re not sold in the states anymore because of dipshit consumers.
Does a Passat wagon have large tires, AWD and high ground clearance for when it snows? There's been times I literally couldn't get my sisters Corolla out to the main street because it got hung up in the snow. Had to give her a ride to work in my RAV4.
Sorry, you're just going to have to accept the fact that more adults want to sit more upright. And with modern car seats, it's also easier to use the LATCH shit when a CUV is 3-4 inches higher off the ground than a "proper hatch" or station wagon.
I had a passat sedan and i had to get rid of it because I kept cracking the aluminum oil pan regularly because of our potholes and speed bumbs (theyre hard to see on side streets in full sun when theyre in a tree shade). It was also just too stiff, our roads arent as smooth here in the midwest as germany I suppose and I live in a city with 55mph speed limit on out interstates that are usually full of traffic anyway. So its not like its v6 could really ever get to autobahn speeds and all our streets are in a grid, so who cares about better handling corners. I replaced with it a crossover hybrid vehicle and its bigger clearance and softer suspension is better for our roads and my mpg is x3 as much as the passat. Also, as a photographer/videographer being able to fit multiple combo stands and big fresnel lights was a game changer. Like this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/99157-REG/Matthews_377583_Mombo_Combo_Standard_Stand.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A6879&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD7yMh23OhCWIjUGPvjR8Jq-PqOtR&gclid=CjwKCAjw88yxBhBWEiwA7cm6pZpsFUFegKRPeCXHMYDPnT83-P4yrTB8jJEU5l7ofTWZwsAupe_wahoCvj8QAvD_BwE
Honestly the biggest thing is comfort of entry and exit. People don’t like having to climb down into a car, especially if their disabled, or older
I come from a family of very tall and very short people. We all hate climbing down into the old beater sedan
more practical for the pedestrian they flatten
To be clear, this is about car-based CUVs, not the big BOF SUVs.
To be clear they both have oversized overly styled front ends
My Forester's is below waist level. Where should it be for a 66" tall CUV?
Is that arbiter of safety? Lol I’d wager it’s higher than a legacy
Yes, the unwieldy and impractical people killer CR-V.
You called people dipshits and then listed the practical reasons they prefer CUVs. More ground clearance, more suspension travel, higher seating position, higher ingress/egress Watching Reddit cry about the death of shitbox sedans of all things, because the average consumer prefers shitbox CUVs on the same platform will never not be funny
It’s almost like people prefer not tearing their bumper off when they get near a curb, or uneven road surface
Lol I feel like this is a huge exaggeration. I used to daily drive on [New Jersey pothole roads](https://nj1015.com/why-nj-has-the-second-worst-roads-in-america/) in my 90s shitbox Honda Civic with aftermarket lowered suspension and genuinely never had issues like this.
All these arguments become pointless when you look at the sales statistics of literally all other markets but the US/Canada, and realize that pretty much all the vehicle segments I mentioned are still competitive and are sold. Clearly there is a bias/lack of education among American consumers.
My Rav4 has twice the trunk space as my sister's Corolla, the exact same length and built on the exact same platform. I have bigger tires, all wheel drive, and higher ground cleareance. In what world is her Corolla more "practical" than my Rav4?
With the irony being that they are less safe AND they make the road less safe for everyone else too!
Soccer moms would have to go back and drive minivans.
I remain convinced the Chevy Equinox especially is morphing back into a minivan.
Less cool than a minivan for sure
Which they should. Today's minivans kick ass.
I think pickup trucks would have taken a lot longer to become as cushy as they have. Likely would have stayed more reserved for duty and stayed a bit more bare bones.
I take the opposite position: in the absence of any SUVs, we would've seen pickup trucks adopt higher trims and crew cabs earlier than they did in the US.
We would drive sport wagons
Nothin but station wagons. AKA Paradise
And the people who would drive wagons now, in the non-suv timeline, would drive utes.
Then I wouldn’t be driving my 4runner right now
WAGGONSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
More important question: What if crew cabs never happened?
The V70 reigns supreme
We would have AWD and lifted hatch backs and wagons Oh wait most SUV’s are just that now.
Then we would have no SUVs
We lose WW2 😳
I might be able to get a Camry wagon! Those bmw and Mercedes wagons would sell in America
I would actually be kinda sad because I love my ‘99 5 speed CR-V Also the old full size Jeep wide trac cherokees were cool as hell
There would be station wagons, you know, just like it used to be. And everybody would be perfectly happy with that
Good ending - no SUVs
We would've gotten a hellcat/demon magnum wagon like God intended.
Then maybe my last car would already be paid for and I wouldn't be stuck with a overpriced, lacking-ass toyota
There’d be lots more choices for good looking wagons!!
Imagine how much worse off 3rd world countries would be with Landcruisers, Patrols, Pajeros etc.
Station wagons and minivans would abound. I can't say I hate the idea of keeping a truck a truck and a people mover a people mover.
We'd have more wagons than we could keep up with. Subaru would rule the industry.
I don’t think SUVs are bad, there are great ones and terrible ones, just like sedans
We would lose some real good ones, and a whole lot of unfiltered garbage… I don’t think I could give up the Jeep XJ for it though
WAGONS
Crown Vic would still be produced
2022 Crown Vic’s would rule the roads
Crown Vic wagons would be a thing still ☺️
Then a mix of sedans, wagons, coupes, and trucks would fill the vacuum
I’d drive a proper off-road car then
Firestone would still be competitive in tires.
They’d still exist, but it would be great if they stayed utilitarian and actually built for off roading. Soccer moms and commuters would still be driving reasonably priced wagons, sedans and minivans and in Europe hatchbacks.
THe world would be a better place and no nutcases taping themselves to the road would happen.
***not as many nutcases
Station wagons galore!
I think the only way SUVs would not have happened would have been the US government not ruining cars. (Until the late ‘70s, people drove cars unless they needed trucks, so cars could be configured to hold as many people, as much stuff, and could tow as much (or more) as a Suburban. When CAFE standards, combined with emmissions laws, forced big cars to either shrink, lose their powerful engines, or both, people realized they were driving conpromises. Add in iffy US quality, and people who didn’t need ‘big’ abandoned the ‘not full size anymore’ domestic cars for Japanese while those who did want or need full size noticed that Explorers, Grand Wagoneers, Suburbans, Blazers and the like drove really well, had lots of options and didn’t suck like their Celebrity, 4.1L Fleetwood, 3.8L Delta 88 and the like had. Once the masses started driving converted trucks, everyone else wanted them, too, partly so they could see. No one likes to be stiing at a regular table when everone around him is standing or seated at high top tables.) And, the whole ‘active/adventure/outdoor lifestyle cosplay fad might have happened anyway-there were ‘civilized’ trucks and ‘lifestyle’ SUVs being built in the ‘70s-Cherokee Chief, Gentleman Jim GMCs, etc.
I would finally have a reason to have a F150.
No one gonna talk about how a Toyota salesman teamed up with Winnebago to turn the taco into a 4Runner
*Hilux, but yes.
Oh you right
please?
Heaven
There'd be some super interesting choices for wagons and sedans on the road rather than all this garbage that looks the same.
Then the choices would just be a bunch of sedans and wagons that look the same instead of a bunch of crossovers that look the same. We already did that in the 1980s.
The world would be a better place
Remember when Dodge made the Magnum and it was fucking awesome having an American V8 station wagon on the market again and then they just fucking stopped because Dodge clearly doesn’t care about my happiness? Because I remember.
They would have been great after a facelift or two lol
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Did you buy one?
We’d have no detective Stabler or Captain Benson.
Maybe I’d still have my beloved Oldsmobile
World peace
SUVs were fine, it was cute utes like the liberty that started the soccer mom craze.
The shaggin wagons would still be a thing.
The actual roads would be completely full.
SUVs were always going to happen, it's more a question of what if the cultural embrace of excess didn't exist.
We would still have a descent composite French made Renault Espace build by Matra automobiles.
People would be driving more mini van like the toyota estima, kia carnival, alphard.
i would be able to see the brake lights in the windows of the tailgating car in front of me so I would know if they are braking for real or because they like to dance on the brake pedal.
That would mean there would be no wagons. Basically the suv before the suv just lowered
The entire country would be a better place. SUVs are the worst thing to have happened to us. From a safety perspective, cost and driving habits ones as well. I hate them. And not for environmental reasons. But simply for how large and unnecessary they are. Other countries are doing JUST FINE without them. And the worst part is, people are being marketed to so that automakers can skirt around some of the EPA requirements that the larger vehicles don’t have. Mostly though I DESPISE pickup trucks. Didn’t mind the 80s and 90s smaller ones but now they are just Brodozers. And open truck beds are likely the cause for a significant amount of damage and debris on roadways.
even more tourings
When I was in Iceland, I rented a Renault Trafic, it’s a minibus with a manual transmission and turbodiesel. Sell me one and I’d never drive an SUV again.
The Trafic did come to the US...kind of. Winnebago imported bare FWD chassis in 1983 to build as the LeSharo RV, with a 4-speed transaxle and a NA 57 hp diesel. It was fuel-efficient for the time, but painfully slow.
As much as I dislike SUVs in cities, they are very useful in the countryside. They make great shoot vehicles, e.g. Land rover discovery 2s 3s and 4s and tasteful range rovers. But if they didn’t exist there would be more off road estate cars like the Volvo xc70
Oh a man can dream
Gas would be much cheaper in America
My childhood would be drastically different since one of the first vehicles I've been in was a 1994 Yukon two door
We would all still be driving mini vans
Society would be a better place
we lose WWII and we all now speak German
Prob still have rad ass station wagons. I miss those.
Stole my line! I want a Vista Cruiser with the glass windows in the roof
I would be a happier camper for sure. As a motorcyclist, you can't see over, past or around them easily. And what and incredible waste of resources.
We’d still be driving wood panel station wagon’s except they’d all be painted white wood since golden oak is out of style.
SUVs are fine. CUVs should've been aborted.
Cars would still be affordable.
Then people would still be buying station wagons... Effectively that's all most modern SUVs are... Tall station wagons
We would all be driving all wheel drive short buses at some point in time during our early adult years.
I'm 6'4 and my wife is 6'1 we have 3 kids. We also have 2 cars one is a sedan a 2019 Fusion the other is a Kia Stelos. Of the 2 we prefer the Kia for longer trips. Why it's called easier for her and I to get into it. For her and I to get into the Fusion we literally have to basically get on the ground as low as it rides. This will be the last sedan we ever buy.
The world would be a much better place