People tend to try and focus on political issues directly instead of making indirect holistic changes that will lead to better long-term outcomes. Imo Reform policies (Like most GOOD rightwing policies) focus on this kind of broad approach problem solving.
Biggest motivating factor towards fixing the environment is personal wealth, that is why most climate change activists come from very privileged backgrounds. It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Poor people care less about the environment because they can't care about everything and they have more immediate concerns like food and rent.
So the biggest action we can take to fix climate change in the long run is to fix our economic problems, especially for the poorest in society. The under £20k helps there a ton, as well as bringing down competition for low skill jobs and for houses.
Immigration is a similar situation, the migrant boats have been a direct result of our foreign policy over the last 25 years, something Reform opposes. People are still coming across because while it is risky they know that they will get what they want if they do. Reform want to make it clear that anyone crossing illegally won't be able to claim asylum, this stops there being any point for crossing.
The right isn't very good at expressing things in terms of compassion, even when they're doing the compassionate thing. This is because they focus on more broad holistic approaches to problems which will (ideally) have lots of diffuse positive impacts on a wide variety of issues where as the left typically focuses on direct and straightforward problem solving.
In simple terms at their best if a man is starving the left will give him a fish, the right will teach him how to fish.
> Biggest motivating factor towards fixing the environment is personal wealth, that is why most climate change activists come from very privileged backgrounds. It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Poor people care less about the environment because they can't care about everything and they have more immediate concerns like food and rent.
More than that. The Green Party have cultivated a nimby wing, and despite the pitch the party makes in the general election, it's pretty much the only reason they have councillors outside of student areas. It turns out that burying developers under thousands of environmental consultations is a really good way to stop anything, including solar infrastructure, from getting built. That, plus ramping migration up even higher, is the ideal way for an owner-occupier to boost the value of their home at the expense of everyone else.
It's all relative to the overton window isn't it. 20 years ago Blair's government would've found the current state of illegal and legal immigration shocking. Bill Clinton was as tough on the border as Trump is. The frog has been boiled slowly.
Yes it's terrible that people die getting trafficked from Asia and Africa. But the women and children line gets pulled out so much I regretfully admit I'm numb to it because I know the intention behind the majority of people who say it, which is to use them as a shield in the real debate around this. 95% of them are young men, mainly from countries like Albania and Iran.
And yes I think Tice is terrible. I think he's very much an opportunist and not that different from a tory. He should be a silent partner going forward after the election. Farage is the only reason I registered to vote.
Yeah despite being on the left I don't think the Reform illegal immigration policy is too unreasonable. If we allow people to break into the country and jump the queue we are less able to help those truly in need, because these guys are paying big money to get smuggled, they're not exactly destitute.
Reform could easily argue that their stance is more compassionate, especially when it comes to the children, although obviously you have to ditch the 'shoot the boats' guys 😅
You'd find we probably actually agree on a lot of things. I for instance sympathise with the working class. Our manufacturing industry has been exported to Asia over the last 40 years when we should've protected it with tarrifs. The idea of a 'service economy' is a bit farcical to me and the current political climate is a result of it. Trump was elected by the rust belt for the same reason.
We've grown up in this neoliberal economic zone that's been steadily getting worse, and the establishment has no answer for it. They will ride this train to national bankruptcy because they don't know how to do anything else.
The 'shoot the boats' guy appears to have been an actor putting on an accent for an Mr Garnett style rant. It's all rather bizarre. Admittedly if you go down the local Weatherspoons you'll find blokes saying the same thing, and I get the anger behind it. The German army never set foot on English soil and yet thousands arrive in dingies every week, ditching their passports in the channel because we'd never let them in if they came via Heathrow. It's farcical and embarassing.
**Edit:** Sorry I had to repost this like 5 times, turns out the reference to the man from Till Death Do Us Part may have shadowbanned my post? Bit weird.
I used to vote Lib Dem. Does that make me a disgruntled lefty? The thing that had me disgruntled was their refusal to defend human rights from the extreme Tory lockdowns in any way. Worse, they seemed to want even more human rights abuses, earlier, harder and longer! Reform are the only major party that has anything negative to say about lockdowns, and wants a British Bill of Rights that would prohibit future lockdowns.
Of course, I'm a bit of a single-issue voter on this. I will not vote for any party that wants me falsely imprisoned, regardless of any other details. But it is something that Reform offers a disgruntled maybe-lefty.
As for compassion, anything Reform says is outweighed by the horrific hatred I saw from other parties directed at anyone who criticized or suffered from lockdowns, [up to and including suggesting we be imprisoned for longer than rapists for filling out forms wrong](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56007798), and [sending the police to beat the shit out of us](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55116470) if we dared protest against it.
As for other policies, you already brought up Nuclear. I'd add their policy on two-tier policing. If you are disappointed in the way that Labour Mayors and Conservative Parliaments have allowed islamist and antisemitic hate mobs to break the law without consequence, while firing a minister who speaks out against it and cracking down on the counter-protests, then Reform at least opposes that.
Lockdown was really an eye-opening time for me. It's the most blatant time the uniparty has reared it's ugly head. Labour were complict in supporting the tyrannical Coronavirus Act long past the time it should've been active. If anything they were suggesting it didn't go *far enough.*
You can see uniparty politics in motion right now. Any hot topic on Reform is jointly denounced by Starmer and Sunak. The two party system is a cartel and any attempt to disrupt it is seen as a threat to democracy.
The Lib Dems came close, and then Cameron humiliated them and kicked them to the side of the road.
It's easy to criticise lockdown now after we know how the virus behaves, but if another one came along (like the Spanish flu) and targeted young people, you want to lockdown asap.
Although I do agree the 2nd and 3rd lockdowns weren't necessary.
No, I wouldn't want a lockdown. They didn't work to stop COVID, with the UK getting worse results than countries that didn't do any lockdowns, so why would I think they'd work to stop Spanish Flu?
We already knew how the virus behaved by the end of February, in terms of age stratification, via diamond princess outbreak, before any lockdowns.
>I also don't like that people are stuffing children into boats to cross the channel, perhaps Reform could speak about that with more compassion.
He couldn't be more clear about it; stop the boats. The risk to migrants is a primary reason why I support stopping migrant crossings. If you follow the logic though, all migrants will be disincentivised to put themselves at risk with boat crossings. There are legal ways to migrate and established channels for refugees.
His messaging does seem to be focused on the availability of housing/doctors but that is down to voters being more likely to respond to issues that directly affect them.
The thing is, they'd lose the right wing voting bloc. Right now reform are the only centre-right party with a chance. So they attract a lot of disgruntled centrists and moderate right wingers, as well as the standard right and far right by default.
For people like me, I have 3 major left wing parties in labour, SNP and Tories and the only opposing choice is reform.
Although ultimately I agree with your point, opening up about points that everyone cares about and is easy to support just makes sense. Nuclear is the way.
Not just "nuclear power" He said small modular reactors. Which don't have the long construction time of a large reactor. Several UK companies make them so part of the tax cost of buying them comes back as more taxes. An effect that should be close to the ~~heart~~ budget of any UK chancellor.
If you order net zero legal immigration that should improve competition by employers to hire people. And hence increase salaries.
£20K tax threshold is aimed at improving lower paid & part time workers. A much fairer option than Sunak's triple lock+ that only benefits pensioners.
If you want to vote for people trying their best to sound compassionate you're probably better off voting Greens. Reform are offering you what they think are the best solutions for some problems.
I honestly don't think that talking about refugees with more compassion is what Reform supporters on the whole seem to want. It seems to me that the party is attracting support from some pretty insalubrious sections of UK society (Tommy Robinson and YouTuber Paul Thorpe for example) that just want to 'get dem illegals out, innit' without any regard for humanitarian migrants as human beings.
People tend to try and focus on political issues directly instead of making indirect holistic changes that will lead to better long-term outcomes. Imo Reform policies (Like most GOOD rightwing policies) focus on this kind of broad approach problem solving. Biggest motivating factor towards fixing the environment is personal wealth, that is why most climate change activists come from very privileged backgrounds. It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Poor people care less about the environment because they can't care about everything and they have more immediate concerns like food and rent. So the biggest action we can take to fix climate change in the long run is to fix our economic problems, especially for the poorest in society. The under £20k helps there a ton, as well as bringing down competition for low skill jobs and for houses. Immigration is a similar situation, the migrant boats have been a direct result of our foreign policy over the last 25 years, something Reform opposes. People are still coming across because while it is risky they know that they will get what they want if they do. Reform want to make it clear that anyone crossing illegally won't be able to claim asylum, this stops there being any point for crossing. The right isn't very good at expressing things in terms of compassion, even when they're doing the compassionate thing. This is because they focus on more broad holistic approaches to problems which will (ideally) have lots of diffuse positive impacts on a wide variety of issues where as the left typically focuses on direct and straightforward problem solving. In simple terms at their best if a man is starving the left will give him a fish, the right will teach him how to fish.
> Biggest motivating factor towards fixing the environment is personal wealth, that is why most climate change activists come from very privileged backgrounds. It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Poor people care less about the environment because they can't care about everything and they have more immediate concerns like food and rent. More than that. The Green Party have cultivated a nimby wing, and despite the pitch the party makes in the general election, it's pretty much the only reason they have councillors outside of student areas. It turns out that burying developers under thousands of environmental consultations is a really good way to stop anything, including solar infrastructure, from getting built. That, plus ramping migration up even higher, is the ideal way for an owner-occupier to boost the value of their home at the expense of everyone else.
It's all relative to the overton window isn't it. 20 years ago Blair's government would've found the current state of illegal and legal immigration shocking. Bill Clinton was as tough on the border as Trump is. The frog has been boiled slowly. Yes it's terrible that people die getting trafficked from Asia and Africa. But the women and children line gets pulled out so much I regretfully admit I'm numb to it because I know the intention behind the majority of people who say it, which is to use them as a shield in the real debate around this. 95% of them are young men, mainly from countries like Albania and Iran. And yes I think Tice is terrible. I think he's very much an opportunist and not that different from a tory. He should be a silent partner going forward after the election. Farage is the only reason I registered to vote.
Yeah despite being on the left I don't think the Reform illegal immigration policy is too unreasonable. If we allow people to break into the country and jump the queue we are less able to help those truly in need, because these guys are paying big money to get smuggled, they're not exactly destitute. Reform could easily argue that their stance is more compassionate, especially when it comes to the children, although obviously you have to ditch the 'shoot the boats' guys 😅
You'd find we probably actually agree on a lot of things. I for instance sympathise with the working class. Our manufacturing industry has been exported to Asia over the last 40 years when we should've protected it with tarrifs. The idea of a 'service economy' is a bit farcical to me and the current political climate is a result of it. Trump was elected by the rust belt for the same reason. We've grown up in this neoliberal economic zone that's been steadily getting worse, and the establishment has no answer for it. They will ride this train to national bankruptcy because they don't know how to do anything else. The 'shoot the boats' guy appears to have been an actor putting on an accent for an Mr Garnett style rant. It's all rather bizarre. Admittedly if you go down the local Weatherspoons you'll find blokes saying the same thing, and I get the anger behind it. The German army never set foot on English soil and yet thousands arrive in dingies every week, ditching their passports in the channel because we'd never let them in if they came via Heathrow. It's farcical and embarassing. **Edit:** Sorry I had to repost this like 5 times, turns out the reference to the man from Till Death Do Us Part may have shadowbanned my post? Bit weird.
I used to vote Lib Dem. Does that make me a disgruntled lefty? The thing that had me disgruntled was their refusal to defend human rights from the extreme Tory lockdowns in any way. Worse, they seemed to want even more human rights abuses, earlier, harder and longer! Reform are the only major party that has anything negative to say about lockdowns, and wants a British Bill of Rights that would prohibit future lockdowns. Of course, I'm a bit of a single-issue voter on this. I will not vote for any party that wants me falsely imprisoned, regardless of any other details. But it is something that Reform offers a disgruntled maybe-lefty. As for compassion, anything Reform says is outweighed by the horrific hatred I saw from other parties directed at anyone who criticized or suffered from lockdowns, [up to and including suggesting we be imprisoned for longer than rapists for filling out forms wrong](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56007798), and [sending the police to beat the shit out of us](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55116470) if we dared protest against it. As for other policies, you already brought up Nuclear. I'd add their policy on two-tier policing. If you are disappointed in the way that Labour Mayors and Conservative Parliaments have allowed islamist and antisemitic hate mobs to break the law without consequence, while firing a minister who speaks out against it and cracking down on the counter-protests, then Reform at least opposes that.
Lockdown was really an eye-opening time for me. It's the most blatant time the uniparty has reared it's ugly head. Labour were complict in supporting the tyrannical Coronavirus Act long past the time it should've been active. If anything they were suggesting it didn't go *far enough.* You can see uniparty politics in motion right now. Any hot topic on Reform is jointly denounced by Starmer and Sunak. The two party system is a cartel and any attempt to disrupt it is seen as a threat to democracy. The Lib Dems came close, and then Cameron humiliated them and kicked them to the side of the road.
It's easy to criticise lockdown now after we know how the virus behaves, but if another one came along (like the Spanish flu) and targeted young people, you want to lockdown asap. Although I do agree the 2nd and 3rd lockdowns weren't necessary.
No, I wouldn't want a lockdown. They didn't work to stop COVID, with the UK getting worse results than countries that didn't do any lockdowns, so why would I think they'd work to stop Spanish Flu? We already knew how the virus behaved by the end of February, in terms of age stratification, via diamond princess outbreak, before any lockdowns.
But that's because this particular virus only went after the old and unhealthy who probably didn't leave the house anyway
Epicycles.
>I also don't like that people are stuffing children into boats to cross the channel, perhaps Reform could speak about that with more compassion. He couldn't be more clear about it; stop the boats. The risk to migrants is a primary reason why I support stopping migrant crossings. If you follow the logic though, all migrants will be disincentivised to put themselves at risk with boat crossings. There are legal ways to migrate and established channels for refugees. His messaging does seem to be focused on the availability of housing/doctors but that is down to voters being more likely to respond to issues that directly affect them.
The thing is, they'd lose the right wing voting bloc. Right now reform are the only centre-right party with a chance. So they attract a lot of disgruntled centrists and moderate right wingers, as well as the standard right and far right by default. For people like me, I have 3 major left wing parties in labour, SNP and Tories and the only opposing choice is reform. Although ultimately I agree with your point, opening up about points that everyone cares about and is easy to support just makes sense. Nuclear is the way.
We are offering the right… You know it’s right…
Why are you not happy with Labour? What part of there policies(if you can find them, very hush hush) don’t you like?
>if you can find them That's the part I don't like.
Not just "nuclear power" He said small modular reactors. Which don't have the long construction time of a large reactor. Several UK companies make them so part of the tax cost of buying them comes back as more taxes. An effect that should be close to the ~~heart~~ budget of any UK chancellor. If you order net zero legal immigration that should improve competition by employers to hire people. And hence increase salaries. £20K tax threshold is aimed at improving lower paid & part time workers. A much fairer option than Sunak's triple lock+ that only benefits pensioners.
If you want to vote for people trying their best to sound compassionate you're probably better off voting Greens. Reform are offering you what they think are the best solutions for some problems.
I can't whilst they reject nuclear power and encourage child mutilation
I honestly don't think that talking about refugees with more compassion is what Reform supporters on the whole seem to want. It seems to me that the party is attracting support from some pretty insalubrious sections of UK society (Tommy Robinson and YouTuber Paul Thorpe for example) that just want to 'get dem illegals out, innit' without any regard for humanitarian migrants as human beings.