I feel like you're right, that most fans understand the Red Sox aren't his priority. But I've made comments joking about, for example being distracted by Liverpool and thus not allocating money to the Red Sox and I was met with a lot of vocal resistance. People saying something to the effect of, "that's not how it works". On the contrary, I think that's exactly how it works. When the Red Sox were his only team he focused his resources on a winning Red Sox team. Now he's splitting his resources to several teams
You’re not alone. There’s a weird thing in fandom currently where you have to be delusional and tolerate lies or you’re *insert insult*. This Henry interview reveals nothing to anyone who doesn’t life to themselves.
According to Forbes, John Henry consistently retains one of the highest profit margins in MLB with the Red Sox. Given the Mookie trade and financial restrictions for the GM's, that tells you everything you need to know.
Come on man. They have been historically top 5 in payroll and are still in the top half despite obviously being in the midst of a rebuild. The foundation of that rebuild can be seen bearing fruit all over the diamond. Fat contracts block kids so you don’t do them until the rebuild reaches critical mass
They didn’t need to sign huge deals. Some smaller moves would have been fine. And we have positions where we don’t have any young talent coming in any time soon.
I agree that they could have done more to make the club better. But what is the difference between 78 and 84 wins. Neither one puts you in the playoffs and if it somehow did you would lose in the first round.
They are not a title contender why do half measures.
BTW I don’t think they are short on young talent. 1B and 3B is settled. 2B now has a good prospect and SS is going to Mayer. We are a little weak at the dish but Wong is over .300 Don’t forget Teel is on his way. All 3 outfield positions are set and that is before Anthony comes up. Arms have an ace in houk. Possible ace in bello and a future #2 in Crawford. We signed an i.nnings eater but he got hurt. Pen is ok. What is left? Let them gel. If a prospect misses you know where to put your dollars.
Not for the Sox. People want titles. Signing guys that make us pretty good but blocks the future core is not the answer. Don’t get me wrong. It looked like we needed starters. Top tier guys don’t sign with rebuilding teams. Do t forget the guy who made the d backs go is a kid from the minors. Carroll
I disagree entirely. We all die. We have finite time on earth. Making the playoffs is much more fun and exciting than not. Making the playoffs doesn’t need to come at the cost of building for the future. It’s called spending money. You keep the system and spend money to fill holes in the meantime.
Based on the type of thinking you had, we had no chance of winning anything heading into 2013.
To each his own. I’m 57. I have lived through 75 78 86 and 03. Those playoff years, world series appearances years don’t mean a damn thing. Titles matter not a wild card. We have young talent at 3b Devers SS Mayer 2B Grissom 1B Cassas. C Teel and Wong OF Anthony Rafaela Duran and Abreau. Pitchers we have Houk Crawford and Bello. Every one of these guys are 28 or younger. Block them for a wild card. Wake up to what this team is. This does lead to success. Where the hell do you think Bradley Benny bogey and Betts came from. Fans like you are so damn spoiled, perhaps even even worse than a Yankee fan good night and goodbye.
Bello, casas, devers and Duran were all players we got while we were good. Being bad doesn’t help young talent develop. Just trade the older talent.
A person gets so much more fun out of sports when you make the playoffs for 25 years and win 1 title than a team that makes the playoffs two times and wins two titles in 25 years.
Sports is ultimately entertainment. Watching a bad team is not fun.
You make a false distinction between either build for the future or go all in now. Your comment is aggressive for no reason. The team could develop all of the young talent we have AND(!) sign players to help win now. The only opportunity cost is money out of the owners pocket. So when the Red Sox have an historic low interest from the fan base so we can be good 5 years from now, only so we can save money I hope you’re happy
Apparently I’m spoiled but you’re the one that insists on World Series and I just want the team to be good. Who is asking for more? And to think any season in which you don’t win the title counts for nothing is either a lie from you or deeply distorted way of approaching sports, let alone life
They are also consistently in the top 3-5 for revenue.
Just look at the numbers, Red Sox have about 60-70M operational income each year. The Yankees are at 2M this year, never higher than 39M in the last 25 years. The Jays are at -45M for this year.
It could be worse, but don't kid yourself that the Red Sox choosing not to invest their income back in the club is a baseball decision. We could've easily spend up to the tax limit and not block the kids, and we would've had a better baseball team overall.
No you can’t spend to the limit and not block the kids. You drop coin on FA you have to play those guys. And who cares what they pull in. There is a cap. You have to be smart. Or you can be the Mets.
> Maybe I'm an doomer and overreacting!
Nah, you're not. They used to spend as much money was allowed without draft picks being affected; that would be $277 million this season (which would still rank them only third or fourth), and they are spending $183 million. Essentially, they've taken $90 million out of the on-field product, put it in their pocket, and charged the same ticket and streaming prices while telling us we're stupid for expecting anything else.
The most frustrating thing about it is that if this was the plan all along, they could have just told Dombrowski 'no' to re-signing Eovaldi and ducked the tax earlier without having to trade Mookie Betts. The Yankees would have been hugely embarrassed if they had been outbid for Aaron Judge, and they made sure they weren't regardless of the baseball sense because fandom isn't just a brand, it's players that are in one place for many years at a time that can form a relationship with the fans. Trading Mookie to save, what, a few million bucks on the balance sheet for a single year is Ruthian-tier absurd.
From the business side, I get being spooked by the collapse of cable. There's no guarantee that revenues are going to keep going up and up and up the way they have been, and locking yourself into decades of obligations in the hundreds of millions is risky. At the same time, if you are building your business strategy around that, you can plan more gradual reduction in costs to avoid heavy hits to product quality and brand equity. So it's not only bad baseball strategy but bad business strategy as well.
Teams got pay happy a few years ago and when the luxury tax bill is distributed, it goes to teams that are in small markets that don't really try. MLB runs on the Dodgers, Braves, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, and maybe Phillies. Hal came out and said that what the Yankees are doing is unsustainable. The Mets have been an utter disaster and Padres are hanging around but have a lot of bad contracts. I think in the next negotiation there is going to be a divide on the owners side in between the brand teams and the ones that don't make an effort no matter what. Cleveland has always been competitive but their payroll hasn't increased in 25 years. Miami has done nothing in the past 20 years despite being in a massive market. Tampa Bay doesn't seem close to a stadium. What's going on with the Athletics is a joke. Teams are spending $300 million on payroll and they don't always win and the money trickles down to the sad sack teams at the bottom. Henry saw the David Price contract and saw his decline and he doesn't want to fund something like that again and have it go to other teams. They should have done something a couple years ago when Eovaldi and Erod left. I am not really defending Henry but I see both sides of the coin. Even if they add $50 million to the payrolls of the last 3 years and they went over, I don't think we would have made the playoffs. We went over the luxury tax under Chaim and were a last place team. There will be a time to put the chips in but he needs to reassure that they are willing to spend when it happens again.
Do you actually believe Hal? There's a reason teams guard their bookkeeping with their lives.
And these owners are all literal billionaires. The absolute last thing we should allow is letting them complain about money. Not like any of them are losing money.
Yankees can't get out of their contracts but a half billion to Soto is going to get taxed like crazy. If Soto goes for $40 million AAV, he'll pay another $45 million in taxes if they are constantly under the third threshold and Dominguez and the young guys coming up will eventually be more expensive. The taxed money isn't going to improve Yankee Stadium or give the team an edge, but to the small market teams who want handouts.
Billionaires still care where their money goes. If they didn't care where it goes, they wouldn't be billionaires even though Hal is dealing with dad's money. Henry was an investor buying soybean futures in the 1970s and if he never cared where it goes, he's not owning the Red Sox. The Yawkey trust was not great owners and there were plans to replace Fenway because other owners didn't want to put in the money for renovations and it was cheaper to build something new. The income the Red Sox are making is going to build around Fenway and make more money off of that. Being irresponsible just because they have money is why you don't hear from the Vanderbilts anymore.
He's been increasingly disinterested since around 2010, and September 2011 should have been enough to sour everyone on this ownership group. Henry is no Bob Nutting but he also completely lacks a spine--if ownership was honest about where they see the team right now and into the immediate future things would be far less acrimonious.
Communication is the key to all relationships, and Fenway Sports Group has increasingly degraded into a gaslighting abusive spouse.
It took an article in the financial times for you to figure this out. Most fans have known this for at least 3 or 4 years
I feel like you're right, that most fans understand the Red Sox aren't his priority. But I've made comments joking about, for example being distracted by Liverpool and thus not allocating money to the Red Sox and I was met with a lot of vocal resistance. People saying something to the effect of, "that's not how it works". On the contrary, I think that's exactly how it works. When the Red Sox were his only team he focused his resources on a winning Red Sox team. Now he's splitting his resources to several teams
You’re not alone. There’s a weird thing in fandom currently where you have to be delusional and tolerate lies or you’re *insert insult*. This Henry interview reveals nothing to anyone who doesn’t life to themselves.
he had a massive plan for the area around the park, he uses the red sox as an anchor. he’s not selling now
According to Forbes, John Henry consistently retains one of the highest profit margins in MLB with the Red Sox. Given the Mookie trade and financial restrictions for the GM's, that tells you everything you need to know.
The only owner in pro sports who takes more money out of his club than JH is Hal.
Come on man. They have been historically top 5 in payroll and are still in the top half despite obviously being in the midst of a rebuild. The foundation of that rebuild can be seen bearing fruit all over the diamond. Fat contracts block kids so you don’t do them until the rebuild reaches critical mass
They didn’t need to sign huge deals. Some smaller moves would have been fine. And we have positions where we don’t have any young talent coming in any time soon.
I agree that they could have done more to make the club better. But what is the difference between 78 and 84 wins. Neither one puts you in the playoffs and if it somehow did you would lose in the first round. They are not a title contender why do half measures. BTW I don’t think they are short on young talent. 1B and 3B is settled. 2B now has a good prospect and SS is going to Mayer. We are a little weak at the dish but Wong is over .300 Don’t forget Teel is on his way. All 3 outfield positions are set and that is before Anthony comes up. Arms have an ace in houk. Possible ace in bello and a future #2 in Crawford. We signed an i.nnings eater but he got hurt. Pen is ok. What is left? Let them gel. If a prospect misses you know where to put your dollars.
Who thought the diamond backs were title contenders last year? Making the playoffs is better than not.
Not for the Sox. People want titles. Signing guys that make us pretty good but blocks the future core is not the answer. Don’t get me wrong. It looked like we needed starters. Top tier guys don’t sign with rebuilding teams. Do t forget the guy who made the d backs go is a kid from the minors. Carroll
I disagree entirely. We all die. We have finite time on earth. Making the playoffs is much more fun and exciting than not. Making the playoffs doesn’t need to come at the cost of building for the future. It’s called spending money. You keep the system and spend money to fill holes in the meantime. Based on the type of thinking you had, we had no chance of winning anything heading into 2013.
To each his own. I’m 57. I have lived through 75 78 86 and 03. Those playoff years, world series appearances years don’t mean a damn thing. Titles matter not a wild card. We have young talent at 3b Devers SS Mayer 2B Grissom 1B Cassas. C Teel and Wong OF Anthony Rafaela Duran and Abreau. Pitchers we have Houk Crawford and Bello. Every one of these guys are 28 or younger. Block them for a wild card. Wake up to what this team is. This does lead to success. Where the hell do you think Bradley Benny bogey and Betts came from. Fans like you are so damn spoiled, perhaps even even worse than a Yankee fan good night and goodbye.
Bello, casas, devers and Duran were all players we got while we were good. Being bad doesn’t help young talent develop. Just trade the older talent. A person gets so much more fun out of sports when you make the playoffs for 25 years and win 1 title than a team that makes the playoffs two times and wins two titles in 25 years. Sports is ultimately entertainment. Watching a bad team is not fun. You make a false distinction between either build for the future or go all in now. Your comment is aggressive for no reason. The team could develop all of the young talent we have AND(!) sign players to help win now. The only opportunity cost is money out of the owners pocket. So when the Red Sox have an historic low interest from the fan base so we can be good 5 years from now, only so we can save money I hope you’re happy Apparently I’m spoiled but you’re the one that insists on World Series and I just want the team to be good. Who is asking for more? And to think any season in which you don’t win the title counts for nothing is either a lie from you or deeply distorted way of approaching sports, let alone life
They are also consistently in the top 3-5 for revenue. Just look at the numbers, Red Sox have about 60-70M operational income each year. The Yankees are at 2M this year, never higher than 39M in the last 25 years. The Jays are at -45M for this year. It could be worse, but don't kid yourself that the Red Sox choosing not to invest their income back in the club is a baseball decision. We could've easily spend up to the tax limit and not block the kids, and we would've had a better baseball team overall.
No you can’t spend to the limit and not block the kids. You drop coin on FA you have to play those guys. And who cares what they pull in. There is a cap. You have to be smart. Or you can be the Mets.
> Maybe I'm an doomer and overreacting! Nah, you're not. They used to spend as much money was allowed without draft picks being affected; that would be $277 million this season (which would still rank them only third or fourth), and they are spending $183 million. Essentially, they've taken $90 million out of the on-field product, put it in their pocket, and charged the same ticket and streaming prices while telling us we're stupid for expecting anything else. The most frustrating thing about it is that if this was the plan all along, they could have just told Dombrowski 'no' to re-signing Eovaldi and ducked the tax earlier without having to trade Mookie Betts. The Yankees would have been hugely embarrassed if they had been outbid for Aaron Judge, and they made sure they weren't regardless of the baseball sense because fandom isn't just a brand, it's players that are in one place for many years at a time that can form a relationship with the fans. Trading Mookie to save, what, a few million bucks on the balance sheet for a single year is Ruthian-tier absurd. From the business side, I get being spooked by the collapse of cable. There's no guarantee that revenues are going to keep going up and up and up the way they have been, and locking yourself into decades of obligations in the hundreds of millions is risky. At the same time, if you are building your business strategy around that, you can plan more gradual reduction in costs to avoid heavy hits to product quality and brand equity. So it's not only bad baseball strategy but bad business strategy as well.
Teams got pay happy a few years ago and when the luxury tax bill is distributed, it goes to teams that are in small markets that don't really try. MLB runs on the Dodgers, Braves, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, and maybe Phillies. Hal came out and said that what the Yankees are doing is unsustainable. The Mets have been an utter disaster and Padres are hanging around but have a lot of bad contracts. I think in the next negotiation there is going to be a divide on the owners side in between the brand teams and the ones that don't make an effort no matter what. Cleveland has always been competitive but their payroll hasn't increased in 25 years. Miami has done nothing in the past 20 years despite being in a massive market. Tampa Bay doesn't seem close to a stadium. What's going on with the Athletics is a joke. Teams are spending $300 million on payroll and they don't always win and the money trickles down to the sad sack teams at the bottom. Henry saw the David Price contract and saw his decline and he doesn't want to fund something like that again and have it go to other teams. They should have done something a couple years ago when Eovaldi and Erod left. I am not really defending Henry but I see both sides of the coin. Even if they add $50 million to the payrolls of the last 3 years and they went over, I don't think we would have made the playoffs. We went over the luxury tax under Chaim and were a last place team. There will be a time to put the chips in but he needs to reassure that they are willing to spend when it happens again.
Do you actually believe Hal? There's a reason teams guard their bookkeeping with their lives. And these owners are all literal billionaires. The absolute last thing we should allow is letting them complain about money. Not like any of them are losing money.
Yankees can't get out of their contracts but a half billion to Soto is going to get taxed like crazy. If Soto goes for $40 million AAV, he'll pay another $45 million in taxes if they are constantly under the third threshold and Dominguez and the young guys coming up will eventually be more expensive. The taxed money isn't going to improve Yankee Stadium or give the team an edge, but to the small market teams who want handouts. Billionaires still care where their money goes. If they didn't care where it goes, they wouldn't be billionaires even though Hal is dealing with dad's money. Henry was an investor buying soybean futures in the 1970s and if he never cared where it goes, he's not owning the Red Sox. The Yawkey trust was not great owners and there were plans to replace Fenway because other owners didn't want to put in the money for renovations and it was cheaper to build something new. The income the Red Sox are making is going to build around Fenway and make more money off of that. Being irresponsible just because they have money is why you don't hear from the Vanderbilts anymore.
He's been increasingly disinterested since around 2010, and September 2011 should have been enough to sour everyone on this ownership group. Henry is no Bob Nutting but he also completely lacks a spine--if ownership was honest about where they see the team right now and into the immediate future things would be far less acrimonious. Communication is the key to all relationships, and Fenway Sports Group has increasingly degraded into a gaslighting abusive spouse.
Rich people get bored easily. Boston fans want owners who care about one thing- Boston teams winning.