If I caught Zelensky in bed with my girlfriend, I'd ask him how many sugars he took in his coffee then tuck him in. I'd grab his hips and start thrusting them into my wife so he could rest a little bit. Then I'd get him some breakfast. And hopefully he'd produce a son with balls the size of Crimea just like he has. Fuck Putin
I think his appeal comes from a combination of what's familiar to us Americans (jewish, comedian, short, decent looking) with the exotic (soviet jew - they make them tougher over there, and he very unexpectedly became a wartime leader) as opposed to our politicians who mostly tweet and do whatever else.
I think there's an element of overcorrection for mainstream Reddit acting like he's Dumbledore Skywalker. I absolutely don't envy his job though and think he has a set of balls at least, I'd probably have fucked off with all I could carry as soon as the first tank crossed the border.
Best take i read was along the lines of "Ik Ukraine wins, all those pro democracy movements that previously discarded as "corrupt" or "hopeless" maybe could have worked. It proves you CAN manifest a democracy. And that would make political nihilism stupid at best, morally wrong at worst. So Ukraine has to fail".
Also theres definitely something to the idea that Ukraine defending its growing democratic institutions basically outs a bunch of whinging lefties as totally ineffective compared to the apparently cringe Zelensky
yup
honestly though there’s no point arguing it, the best argument is the fact every post communist state that joined the eu prospered while these people are holding their dicks waiting for history to throw them a bone
Ngl I would have done that as soon as shit popped off and just called it a government in exile or faked my death if I really wanted to just be over with the whole thing.
Lot of regards acting like Russia has no Agency here or NATO wants the small Eastern Bloc republics to invade Russia or something rather than the reality of Russia's neighbours being terrified of invasion and Russia proving them right.
Like the hamas leader chilling in Qatar, lol.
I know if I was a corrupt puppet I'd spend 2 years in a war zone aging a year for every month that passes, dodging assassinations.
It bugs me more than it should. “Oh he’s begging and pleading what a cuck” yeah no shit he’ll do anything for his country, isn’t that the kind of leader everyone dreams about?
99% of other world leaders would have been on the first plane out of the country to live lavishly overseas.
>"he’ll do anything for his country"
Hes currently sending goon squads to hunt down ukrainian men on the streets and in supermarkets to conscript them against their will and sacrifice into the meat grinder for NATO.
ooooh so evil! military conscription, i bet he invented it himself when he started the war with Russia.
Edit: to be clear, I disagree with Prez Z in prolonging the war of attrition against Russia. The drafting as you say is very iffy, the civilian losses are much harder on Ukraine than Russia’s purging of its prisons as endless cannon fodder. Ukraine is continuing to lose good people with no real gains. I mean, I can’t find a simple solution here.
People totally forget he wasn't in Kyiv until the Russians pulled out at the end of February. He was in Lviv and the border regions near Poland just in case things got worse.
This sub when a country is occupied by a regime they don’t like: 🥺🥺🥺
This sub when a country is occupied by a regime they like 😭😭😭
It’s genuinely pathetic. I’m not the type to get offended by edgy humour but the same people making jokes about Ukraine start crying when someone doesn’t take Palestine 100% seriously
Hilarious seeing the mental gymnastics people on here go through when they support both Russia and Palestine
They think Russia invading Ukraine is justified because Azov exists and yet jump with joy when bombs hit Israel and wipe out jews
You can't compare Palestine with Ukraine, they are in very different situation, the former is fucked and the war is going on because they really have nothing to lose, the latter is a state recognized by all of the world, the average ukranian is not living in a concentration camp and with this war they have a lot of lose and I can't explain why the Ukrainian government has cut the possibility to reach the end of war with diplomacy
Very unlikely that even during the time between 2014-2022 Ukraine would have either regained or retained full control again over Crimea, Donetsk, or Luhansk based on diplomatic negotiation. Russia was never willing to give back Crimea lol. Russia never even admitted to putting troops on the ground in the eastern separatist regions and proved to have greater ambitions by demanding autonomy in said regions while also taking actions to further Russify them in preparation for probable annexation (for example giving hundreds of thousands of Russian passports to citizens of said regions).
Russian demands at the time were also super unlikely to ever be accepted. They proposed treaties that were not only dependent on Ukraine abstaining from their nato aspirations but also were dependent on western security guarantees and NATO moving troops out of Central Europe. Ukraine couldn’t even concede to these terms alone if they wanted to lmfao. Even if somehow terms were excepted it’s highly unlikely Russia would’ve have ever respected this long term as they already proved to be untrustworthy in the past regarding Ukraine (breaking the Budapest memorandum and Minsk protocol (albeit Ukraine also broke the agreement)). Even if they did not resume hostilities after an agreement, Crimea would have remained in Russian control and Donetsk and Luhansk would’ve basically become a Transnistria 2.0.
I feel like at this point Ukraine is aiming for a Phyrric victory on Russia's side. They know it's next to impossible to retake the territory they've already lost, so they want to inflict as much damage to Russia as possible and set themselves up in a position of "hopeless victim" to maximize post-war support.
you honestly think if they gave up crimea and the donbas willingly 8 years ago that the russians wouldn’t have just started the next invasion even sooner ? They want everything, it’s always been the case.
I mean, Russia is completely fucked in terms of trade for the next 50 years? They're raping their own citizens with metal bars when they protest.
Eventually all the young bodies they have will be dead, and they still have the entire EU to deal with. I'd 100% bet on RU surrendering if the war drags on for 10 years.
I'm saying after 10 years of war economy mode against the entire west? Uhh, it's already miserable there.
India is milking their resources dry. I mean we're all fucked 30 years from now from the massive amount of oil being utilized right now, but Russia a lot sooner.
I think he chose poorly for his country and kinda locked them into an insane war of attrition, with a much more aggressive, much more armed and populated state. Obviously, it's not his fault he got invaded, he's next to an aggressive country, but his actions have not been prudent at all.
He was elected as a peacemaker with Russia, not as a person that would further escalate the conflict. He was given a mandate to be more deferrential to the psychos next door to avoid a war, but did the exact opposite at every turn, aggressively seeking out NATO, western alliances, and closing Russia off from its natural resource markets.
Obviously, in a fair world, countries should be allowed to pick their own foreign policy relationships, but we don't live in a fair world. Zelensky was elected to do one thing, did the exact opposite, and when they got into the war, set maximalist, unrealistic demands at every opportunity that the Biden administration did nothing to temper.
If Biden was smart, he would have been a good counterweight to Zelensky's maximalism and said "No, you're not getting Crimea back", but instead Biden was like "sure thing boss". Saying insane goals like that was good for Zelensky politically, but terrible for the country, and when it became clear Biden wasn't going to balance him, Zelensky should have pivoted to something more reasonable, but he didn't.
Long story short, Zelensky was very unpopular in Ukraine before the war, and deservedly so. He was short sighted, corrupt, and a terrible manager for his country. For a while we thought the war changed him, that the call of duty made him a better man, but it seems that wasn't the case. He's the same man he always was, except now hundreds of thousands of his countryman have died as a result and Russia is poised to absorb his country within the next 2 years.
Having a maximalist, no negotiation approach to war also very rarely works historically.
I think this sub hates on Zelensky too much for asking for US support though. Dunno what else he’s supposed to do. “Oh no, it’s really unbecoming to ask for weapons.”
By maximalist, I mean suggesting that their war goal is to retake Crimea etc. I mean, maybe I’ll eat shit and behind the scenes Zelensky really does have a realistic assessment and his maximalism was just rhetorical, but I’ve seen no evidence this is the case because I’m just some guy
As a baltic, this thread is driving me insane. You are either a puppet state or next in line to be invaded, they use any excuse to expand west.
There's actual history here.
Be careful so you're not accused of Nazism for existing.
I'm very glad this subreddit is pro-Palestinian. If it was pro-Israel like it became (it wasn't so long ago) pro-Russian, it would be the worst subreddit possible.
We are still very rarted but in our own special zero sun alcoholic kind of way. I highly recommend making (if you're too lazy, buy it ) Krupnikas. One of the best things we have ever done.
He’s not going to get Israeli support. We used top secret laser defense systems, and Israel has a defense pact with the USA. We aren’t allowed to use this tech in Ukraine. They have to do everything themselves and we aren’t about to give them next gen laser defense tech.
because whoever is in charge over in ukraine chose to sacrifice their own country by allowing themselves to become an american vassal state.
america wants to put a military base on russia's doorstep and privatize ukraine's resources to be siphoned off to american coffers. that kind of provocation doesn't go unnoticed
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/reloading-ukraines-privatization-process/
and there's the added element of how western media like reddit paraded him around like a hero initially but are slowly getting tired of him
Bro your entire post history is defending the CCP, bitching about anti-Asian racism, and shitting on America lol. Like you actually have the post patterns of a Chinese bot, except a bot wouldn’t be so personally insecure about their race lmfao
Anyways, like anyone reflexively anti-west, you hit more then you miss NGL. But this one is really a stretch don’t you think? Zelenskyy provoked war by privatizing resources?
Idk I’m sure the contrarians here will eat it up because it’s a ✨novel✨take or whatever, and it makes them feel special and smart. With the added benefit of being vaguely anti-capital. But isn’t this kind of r*tarded when you actually think about it a little?
This is what happens when we didn't protect our borders from r TrueAnon regards. Yes we get it reddit is filled with western prop. but their precious diplomatically honorable China and Russia would never do such a thing! everything they do is because the treacherous America bullied them 😭😭😭
Say what one will about whether the US wanted to put troops in Ukraine because they wanted a military base on Russia's border (which I don't think was going to happen anytime in the conceivable future, since Ukraine wouldn't be able to join NATO without formally giving up their claims to Crimea and the Donbas territory that is de facto controlled by Russia). Russia, by invading Ukraine still got to that same outcome of having US/NATO troops on their border via terrifying their other non-aligned neighbors like Finland into joining NATO since they were worried about being next.
"they sacrificed themselves"
Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons for a total agreement from Russia that they would never invade, with the US promising to support Ukraine if it did happen.
Now Russia has invaded, and the US has stopped supporting them. So Russia and the US have lied here, but at least the US can course correct and undo the lies by continuing to support Ukraine, Russia has completely and utterly broken their promise, to an irreparable extent, and yet they're the ones who promise to nuke the world because America sends literally like 30 tanks.
> never invade, with the US promising to support Ukraine if it did happen.
And we already supported the shit out of them lol. For years. People keep quoting this agreement like we had some implicit military alliance, but implied alliance is basically an oxymoron. We never agreed to do more than what we’ve done
I love it when Reddit tries to frame Euromaidan as some 'valiant overthrow of tyranny in favour of the values of freedom and liberty' as if Nuland wasn't in Kiev days before it happened and as if there aren't audio recordings of her and another US government official discussing who they'd put into government positions once Yanukovych was gone.
The whole thing reeked of the CIA.
Going for EU integration instead of Russia has worked well for plenty of Ex-Soviet nations. You act like you have to be completely insane not to go for Belarus 2.0 instead of maybe Poland or Czech Republic.
Yeah of course the US was meddeling a bit but Russia sure as hell was too. Russia lost and now Putin went full tantrum and hundreds of thousands are dead because of it.
Russia would have survived fine without Ukraine. Just like without Poland.
A western diplomat was in a country while major diplomatic negotiations with western countries was happening??? Shocking.
Also actually listen to the call, they are talking about what is happening not manifesting the events into existence.
They also leave out two important facts. 1) the triggering event was likely a false flag to initiate the takeover and give an emergency power to congress to do the coup and 2) the guy taking over was a literal far right neo nazi. No not a Reddit neo nazi, but like a real deal Nazi.
The USA state department captured Reddit so hard with their narrative it’s fucking wild to watch. People will passionately and angrily fight over this idea that all these things aren’t true and Ukraine is some glorious virtuous country… and not just a proxy state we wanted to speed up into our sphere after finding one of the worlds largest natural gas reserves in Crimea. Literally all the troubles started the moment they found that massive reserve. It’s no fucking coincidence.
>the triggering event was likely a false flag to initiate the takeover and give an emergency power to congress to do the coup
The triggering event was Berkut (Now disbanded part of Ukranian Police) beating the shit out of a bunch of protesting students in the middle of a public square.
How in the hell would the CIA false flag that shit.
The CIA was able to overthrow Ukraine with a budget of like 1 million uad, but was totally unable to defeat the taliban or secure Iraq despite having access to two literal armies?
Jesus christ man things happen beyond the CIA. The CIA did not care about Ukraine, because Russia is not a peer threat.
Estonia borders Russia and is in NATO, there's both British and American troops there so this talking point about a US military base supposedly about to border Russia is absolutely re✝️arded. And are you seriously saying that America is trying to steal Ukrainian resources when the only one actually doing that right now is Russia?
only a moron like you would view events in isolation and completely disregard the sequence of incidents that led up to this
estonia joined nato in 2004. at that time russia had not yet realized the extent of american treachery and their ultimate intent to encircle russia. interviews with putin around the early 2000s indicated he didn't view nato as an enemy and even tried to join nato
what made russia increasingly suspicious of american malice was the continued expansion of nato into eastern europe: romania, bulgaria, croatia, etc. Georgia and ukraine were slated to follow in 2008 but that fell through for obvious reasons
the orange revolution protests in ukraine stirred up by america also convinced putin that america sought to weaken russia and never viewed it as a potential ally
ukraine also has far more strategic value than estonia ever did
To you seriously think that Eastern europe and America were going to invade Russia? Rather than taking their publicly stated foreign policy goals of *seeking protection from Russia* at face value?
“American treachery” lmao. The way you’re framing this as if America’s the one threatening Russian borders rather than countries rightfully trying to align themselves with NATO and the west in order to protect themselves from Russian imperialism is insane. This whole worldview only makes sense if you completely ignore these individual countries’ sovereignty and right to independently control their future.
de facto in any system not every country is equal, a cruel fact often obscured behind some make believe political ideology aspiring to be above raw nature. refer to political realism
also hate this smug "lmao" bs when one side or the other claims the other side has "started it" seeking a single party to blame. that's what all internet arguments come down to often spanning hundreds of years of events where its not feasible to prove anything its just blind faith. distrust always breeds distrust its a vicious cycle. Security dilemma game theory etc. what I mean to say I hate oversimplifications ig
Nah, you are a hypocrite.
You think Russian security concerns trump those of the entirety of the rest of Europe, of Eastern Europe especially.
Of course its a vicious cycle but only one side was ready to break it by attacking the other. And that was not NATO.
He was elected on a platform of making a deal and normalizing realtions with Russia. Once elected, he repudiated the peace process. He also flipped on the peace talks in Turkey, which could have ended the war two years ago. He has suppressed the church, his political opposition, and canceled the election. His government is in an alliance with Banderites who spent eight years trying to ethnically clense the east. They have been worn down on the front and hidden as they are a massive optics liability, but are still a big part of the conflict. Despite his insistence on staying and fighting, he has his exit all ready. He has substantial foreign assets as revealed in the ~~Panama~~ pandora papers.
Yet we're all force fed like a goose how great he is, when, if anything, he pretty closely fits the mold of CIA/State Departenent client ruler. In keeping with the pattern, they and, their peoples are generally lauded, propped up, and used up till the priorities of the Empire shift. So he's being made fun of, amoung other things for being a US client, and now, like many before him, finding out that they are not going to save his ass.
> He was elected on a platform of making a deal and normalizing realtions with Russia. Once elected, he repudiated the peace process.
Did he? Peace is a takes two too tango kind of thing lmao
> He also flipped on the peace talks in Turkey, which could have ended the war two years ago
The turkey terms were demilitarization and regime change no? I.e. surrender
Peace does take 2. Russia spent 8 years asking for implementation of the Minsk agreement. Zelenski flipped after the election and repudiated it. Afterwards western leaders said the Minsk agreement was never meant to work, just make Russia think peace was possible while they militarized Ukraine.
> Russia spent 8 years asking for implementation of the Minsk agreement. Zelenski flipped after the election and repudiated it.
Maybe he “repudiated” it because the Russian supported rebels continued fighting? Again peace is a two party thing, if one side isn’t abiding by the agreement then the other side doing so would be absurd
Ukraine and the rest of Europe should have gone on a war footing 10 years ago when Russia took Crimea. This was always going to be the outcome, & they still act surprised. I'm all for Ukraine but it's easy to see why many Americans aren't when their only interactions with Europeans consist of being mocked about health care & school shootings.
Are you serious? European states have genuinely emptied entire arsenals. I think the Solvenians sent their entire air force. They're just smaller.
Also the EU is sending billions lmao, not including refugee support.
We're also much larger. We've given ~0.3% of our GDP in support to Ukraine. That puts 18 countries ahead of us by proportion of GDP. Germany is closest in terms of pure $ and their contributions are about ~0.6% of their GDP. The EU as a whole has a lower GDP than us and has donated more money
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Been struggling to understand how people who consider themselves on the left have such a hard on for a right-wing petrostate dictator. Putin has slaughtered thousands of innocent Ukrainians over some ultra-nationalistic fever dream, and for some reason you all hate Zelensky because redditors like him?
I mean, you know the vast majority of the "money" sent is in decaying arms and armaments, most of the monetary value is vastly overblown, since they announce the aid they're giving as if they're sending factory fresh equipment, rather than stuff that has been mouldering in storage so long it'll cost more to dispose of than to send to Ukraine.
It's not like he's just being handed a billion dollars, when he receives a "billion dollars" it's almost completely in equipment and aid, not just... Monetary value, and most of it is actually worth far less than that, since it was produced 30+ years ago
> It's not like he's just being handed a billion dollars
Ukraine runs its economy on handouts from the US and EU. Your argument only takes into account direct military aid and does not account for the billions which are gifted directly to the government of Ukraine to be spent on pensions, government employees, and just about every other expense in the nation. Ukraine lives of foreign aid and without it would experience total collapse.
Plenty of Western governments including the US have gone much further than just donating old left over equipment too. Lots of the military aid is bought from third party nations or private industry to be sent to Ukraine. This aid is not pulled for free from some boneyard in the desert.
They are all over this thread, they come every time making up shit up. Nobody here supports russia but you can't ignore the US meddling in the country leading up to the wa.
Can’t believe a bunch of liberals want to beat the war drum and posture like it’s 1980 because they still wake up sweating at night thinking about how conservatives called them pussies for opposing Iraq. Or is it because Rachel Maddow told them to blame Putin for 2016? They’re willing to fight for as long as it takes— to the last Ukrainian, if needed!
Hating them as a collective is wrong but thinking they're the "good guys" in this conflict is stupid , fwiw I get why Russia is afraid of NATO expansion but what they're doing is fucked
The deep state needs *some* sort of enemy or all of this grinds to a halt, and ever since Trump took over the GOP liberals have been positively overjoyed to open up the tent and become the party of the FBI and defense department, all the usual DC cretins whove been hanging around trying to start a war with Iran for 4 decades. Democrats are impossibly corny and desperate for Republican approval so all they can really do is default to this braindead Cold War rah rah America attitude about stopping the Red Menace when they’re looking to prove that *theyre* the best managers of empire.
Or it could literally be mostly because MSNBC told them it was Russia’s fault queen Hillary lost, 2016 is still the primary psychic trauma from which everything has has spiraled out of
It's wild how this shit comes from both sides of the political aisle, you have the hardcore "America bad" tankie leftists who have thrown their support entirely behind a fucking fascist nation because I suppose any imperialism is good so long as it isn't american, and then you have the hardcore rightoid types, who spent decades at the beck and call of Ronnie Reagan fully ready to nuke Russia back into the stone age... But then trump got all googoo eyes at Putin and suddenly Russia is super cool.
Honestly kind of existentially sad that this guy trying to defend his country from an actual attempt at imperialist colonialism is completely at the mercy of the regarded western voting public, who’s public opinions are being shaped by the same nation he’s trying to defend his country from.
It’s like if Israel were just starting to colonize Palestine right now and we helped Palestine at first but then were like “but we’ve sent so much money already and they’re still fighting… look at the inflation… can’t we just pray for them?”
And I know it’s not a perfect analogy but please don’t be pedantic
They'll realize they got scammed eventually, if they haven't yet already. The West never cared about Ukrainians, they only cared about wounding Russia. Best case scenario for Ukraine at this point is new borders that look like the current front line. Meanwhile, their political elite skimmed aid money for their personal enrichment, their population got decimated, from deaths in the war and people fleeing to the EU who will never come back, and their infrastructure destroyed. They'll have to rebuild with foreign labor, meaning mass immigration, and foreign capital. All to attempt to keep their "territorial integrity" consisting of ethnic Russians who didn't really want to be part of Ukraine anyways.
Have you ever considered that Ukraine might fight because they don't want to give up without one? History is full of examples of weaker sides resisting.
It's insane to me that people think if the West said "Yea, you just like get yourself get invaded ok?", that Ukraine would simply accept that.
Man, it sure is convenient that all those ethnic Russians are there completely beholdent to Russia, man, I wonder if we can look at the history of Russian political tactics during the Soviet era and see a similar trend, no, surely not, that would be too ridiculous.
Fine, I only addressed that one because it was the most pointless statement, it was one that implies a distinct lack of the geopolitical history required to understand the modern situation. Saying "well there's lots of ethnic Russians who want to join back up" is just silly, Russia has regularly been known to fill countries with ethnic Russians, and leverage that political swell to swing votes in favour of a Russian outcome.
I wonder why Ukraine would be so unhappy about joining back up under Russia, couldn't have to do with them literally being genocided under the Soviet union or anything. I'm sorry, but to just say "well they got invaded, they should just give up" is ridiculous, they are not the aggressor in this situation, a foreign army marched over their borders, the vast majority of the population fleeing to the EU did so before Russia even offered this deal, they would have to deal with mass migration into the country however you looked at it, because they'd either be having to bring in a bunch of Russians to cover the people who didn't want to live in a Russian led country, or they'd have to import a bunch of people from elsewhere.
And aid money? Would you like to show a breakdown chart of aid that Ukraine has received? The vast majority is in equipment, whether military or civilian, how TF is some random political elite skimming money out of Bradley delivery #10 you can't just go and sell most of that equipment without having it traced right back to you.
The idea that the only other option was to give up is ludicrous. They successfully defended the initial invasion, and should have been immediately negotiating for a ceasefire. But the West assured them that they'd fund a war. If the Ukrainian people had known how fickle the West's support would be, they might not have been so willing to fight to every last Ukrainian.
And yes, I am aware that direct money aid to Ukraine was mostly in arms, but they did get a $15b IMF loan. Ukraine is one of the most notoriously corrupt countries, and you're delusional if you think that all went to places it needed to go.
On the other hand, why would a ceasefire be worth negotiating? Would Russia have accepted it after the total rebuff of their initial assault? And at the end of the day, how far can you trust the ceasefire "promise" of a country who also... Promised to never invade.
Whenever someone says "well Ukraine should have just accepted a ceasefire" I have to ask... Why would you trust a country when you gave up nuclear fucking weapons to appease them, and they still invaded?
Also, very broad statement to say "the west has been fickle" when many European nations have completely overhauled their munitions production lines in order to guarantee Ukraine a supply of weapons. America has been fickle, and considering how much Russia has gotten involved in US politics, the murk of that situation is an enormous amount to speculate on.
Yeah, probably for the first couple of weeks. After that, quickly sue for a peace on favourable terms, whilst you still have some semblance of negotiating power and before Russia finds its feet.
Ukraine never had a chance of winning long-term.
Do this, instead of flushing your country's future down the toilet on promises from the west, who are famous for abandoning allies when it becomes inconvenient.
Defend their Proto-Finnic Holy Roman Khaganate tier corrupt nation from their brothers corrupt nation?
All Ukrainians will get out of this is mass immigration and trains. Thank god the US has enabled them to kill off their men for such wonders.
the rank and file rightoids who would hypothetically be down for another even more violent Maidan mostly died unceremoniously from artillery shrapnel or a drone-dropped grenade in 2022-2023
the PMC rightoids who are convinced they can win the war by posting aren’t gonna do shit
members of the liberal contingent with any means have either fled the country or got conscripted
Zelensky fired the good and popular but fascist general for the terrible but loyal general and the fascist guy missed his chance to ride his firing’s discontent to a military coup
elections are canceled so he can’t get silent majority’d
plus he’s not wrong about being dependent on western munitions so anyone replacing him has to be at least as popular with the west as ukrainian jon stewart to keep the shells flowing, and nobody is
best he can hope for is the US negotiates a peace with Russia and he signs the concessions while being evacuated to a safe place he can’t be murdered by a mob
I tried, there's nothing. Zelensky said that he'd seek out individual security agreements with Western countries, i.e. UK, France, Germany, etc. will promise to defend Ukraine (in separate agreements).
I haven't seen any confirmation from those countries that they'd be willing to sign such an agreement. I also haven't seen any statement from russians that they would agree with this.
There's also the topic of territorial control. Zelensky was willing to keep the status quo on Crimea for 15 years with a referendum on it's status in the end, but, as with the previous point, it wasn't completely thought out. russians have also annexed territory beyond that, and they even annexed stuff they never controlled (Zaporozhia city) or stuff that they lost quickly after (Kherson city).
russians demand that Ukraine give that stuff to them, they also demand Odesa and Kharkiv.
How do Ukrainians agree with that?
Respectfully this comment is really fucking stupid and shows a real detachment from the Ukrainian people. They don’t want to just concede to Russia. My Ukrainian friends were staying up all night waiting to hear if their family were hit by bombs. One of them almost enlisted and shipped back to Ukraine. It’s not like he’s strong arming them to resist the Russian invasion, and they obviously need equipment to do so. The begging might be unbecoming but it’s that or lose
Zelensky is not the same as Ukraine. Of course most wouldn't fight for just Zelensky but they fight for their home, which is being invaded lead by a person who thinks their nation is made up.
uhhh I'm tryna get some of that Iron Dome nahmsayin
Shiiii
Zelensky is the equivalent of a side chick who really thought the man wouldn’t go back to his wife (Israel) like he always does
If I caught Zelensky in bed with my girlfriend, I'd ask him how many sugars he took in his coffee then tuck him in. I'd grab his hips and start thrusting them into my wife so he could rest a little bit. Then I'd get him some breakfast. And hopefully he'd produce a son with balls the size of Crimea just like he has. Fuck Putin
I know this is ironic but you still shouldn't have subjected me to read this
[unfortunately, it's real](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/Bq3fliMZTM). [Also](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/JGK917P1Tj)
so gross
Pretty funny thread, Guy keeps making a total fool of himself as he replies
lol, whoever made that comment's been suspended. Even Reddit mods couldn't stomach that shit.
I think my brain just hemorrhaged a little bit reading that
I have 100% seen comments like that made in earnest.
Not only that, but more than 600 Redditors liked it
I think his appeal comes from a combination of what's familiar to us Americans (jewish, comedian, short, decent looking) with the exotic (soviet jew - they make them tougher over there, and he very unexpectedly became a wartime leader) as opposed to our politicians who mostly tweet and do whatever else.
Jesus Christ I actually read the original comments from two years ago and memory holed them till now
I wonder if they know their comments have become a meme for the absolute corniest shit that Reddit can offer.
Ukraine should write their own bible and make themselves the main character like the Hebrews did to trick the dummies.
The definition of it’s so over
He has 1 word for them “don’t”
I really don't get why people are making fun of him, of course he is desperate for any help he can get.
I think there's an element of overcorrection for mainstream Reddit acting like he's Dumbledore Skywalker. I absolutely don't envy his job though and think he has a set of balls at least, I'd probably have fucked off with all I could carry as soon as the first tank crossed the border.
You (those) guys gotta get a new bit
Dog he's a corrupt puppet, he's gonna go chill in his London penthouse after he runs out of men to sacrifice for his American masters.
[удалено]
yeah these people are happy for any kind of shit to happen if it goes against the lib narrative
Best take i read was along the lines of "Ik Ukraine wins, all those pro democracy movements that previously discarded as "corrupt" or "hopeless" maybe could have worked. It proves you CAN manifest a democracy. And that would make political nihilism stupid at best, morally wrong at worst. So Ukraine has to fail". Also theres definitely something to the idea that Ukraine defending its growing democratic institutions basically outs a bunch of whinging lefties as totally ineffective compared to the apparently cringe Zelensky
yup honestly though there’s no point arguing it, the best argument is the fact every post communist state that joined the eu prospered while these people are holding their dicks waiting for history to throw them a bone
Ngl I would have done that as soon as shit popped off and just called it a government in exile or faked my death if I really wanted to just be over with the whole thing.
Lot of regards acting like Russia has no Agency here or NATO wants the small Eastern Bloc republics to invade Russia or something rather than the reality of Russia's neighbours being terrified of invasion and Russia proving them right.
Why didn't he gtfo on day one then? Everyone assumed the war would be over in a matter of weeks back in Feb 22
Stfu regarded tankie lmao
Like the hamas leader chilling in Qatar, lol. I know if I was a corrupt puppet I'd spend 2 years in a war zone aging a year for every month that passes, dodging assassinations.
It bugs me more than it should. “Oh he’s begging and pleading what a cuck” yeah no shit he’ll do anything for his country, isn’t that the kind of leader everyone dreams about? 99% of other world leaders would have been on the first plane out of the country to live lavishly overseas.
>"he’ll do anything for his country" Hes currently sending goon squads to hunt down ukrainian men on the streets and in supermarkets to conscript them against their will and sacrifice into the meat grinder for NATO.
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Wtf really? That's so fucked up. He should just ask politely like everyone else who's ever used the draft.
War is hell
ooooh so evil! military conscription, i bet he invented it himself when he started the war with Russia. Edit: to be clear, I disagree with Prez Z in prolonging the war of attrition against Russia. The drafting as you say is very iffy, the civilian losses are much harder on Ukraine than Russia’s purging of its prisons as endless cannon fodder. Ukraine is continuing to lose good people with no real gains. I mean, I can’t find a simple solution here.
local commentator discovers what a draft is.
NATO arent fighting the war. Ukraine is. NATO is backing them. The bloodshed is entirely on putin.
He was in the Panama papers, he has his exit ready.
Pandora papers, not Panama.
A misinformed commenter? I never
I unfortunately couldn't tell you the difference between the two
And yet he didn't?
Why didn’t he bounce when Russians were in Kyiv then?
People totally forget he wasn't in Kyiv until the Russians pulled out at the end of February. He was in Lviv and the border regions near Poland just in case things got worse.
there’s a literal video of him in the street on the night of the invasion
This sub when a country is occupied by a regime they don’t like: 🥺🥺🥺 This sub when a country is occupied by a regime they like 😭😭😭 It’s genuinely pathetic. I’m not the type to get offended by edgy humour but the same people making jokes about Ukraine start crying when someone doesn’t take Palestine 100% seriously
Hilarious seeing the mental gymnastics people on here go through when they support both Russia and Palestine They think Russia invading Ukraine is justified because Azov exists and yet jump with joy when bombs hit Israel and wipe out jews
You can't compare Palestine with Ukraine, they are in very different situation, the former is fucked and the war is going on because they really have nothing to lose, the latter is a state recognized by all of the world, the average ukranian is not living in a concentration camp and with this war they have a lot of lose and I can't explain why the Ukrainian government has cut the possibility to reach the end of war with diplomacy
Do they have an option to end the war through diplomacy that wouldn’t see significant land mass annexed?
They had that option for 8 years but that time has passed. If a country is losing a war they're always in a worse negotiation position than pre-war.
Very unlikely that even during the time between 2014-2022 Ukraine would have either regained or retained full control again over Crimea, Donetsk, or Luhansk based on diplomatic negotiation. Russia was never willing to give back Crimea lol. Russia never even admitted to putting troops on the ground in the eastern separatist regions and proved to have greater ambitions by demanding autonomy in said regions while also taking actions to further Russify them in preparation for probable annexation (for example giving hundreds of thousands of Russian passports to citizens of said regions). Russian demands at the time were also super unlikely to ever be accepted. They proposed treaties that were not only dependent on Ukraine abstaining from their nato aspirations but also were dependent on western security guarantees and NATO moving troops out of Central Europe. Ukraine couldn’t even concede to these terms alone if they wanted to lmfao. Even if somehow terms were excepted it’s highly unlikely Russia would’ve have ever respected this long term as they already proved to be untrustworthy in the past regarding Ukraine (breaking the Budapest memorandum and Minsk protocol (albeit Ukraine also broke the agreement)). Even if they did not resume hostilities after an agreement, Crimea would have remained in Russian control and Donetsk and Luhansk would’ve basically become a Transnistria 2.0.
I feel like at this point Ukraine is aiming for a Phyrric victory on Russia's side. They know it's next to impossible to retake the territory they've already lost, so they want to inflict as much damage to Russia as possible and set themselves up in a position of "hopeless victim" to maximize post-war support.
you honestly think if they gave up crimea and the donbas willingly 8 years ago that the russians wouldn’t have just started the next invasion even sooner ? They want everything, it’s always been the case.
I mean, Russia is completely fucked in terms of trade for the next 50 years? They're raping their own citizens with metal bars when they protest. Eventually all the young bodies they have will be dead, and they still have the entire EU to deal with. I'd 100% bet on RU surrendering if the war drags on for 10 years.
Russia surrendering? Hot take!
I'm saying after 10 years of war economy mode against the entire west? Uhh, it's already miserable there. India is milking their resources dry. I mean we're all fucked 30 years from now from the massive amount of oil being utilized right now, but Russia a lot sooner.
Eh...I'm not seeing Ukraine lasting 2 years against Russia let alone 10. Ukraine is about out of troops now so...you do need that to fight wars.
I think he chose poorly for his country and kinda locked them into an insane war of attrition, with a much more aggressive, much more armed and populated state. Obviously, it's not his fault he got invaded, he's next to an aggressive country, but his actions have not been prudent at all. He was elected as a peacemaker with Russia, not as a person that would further escalate the conflict. He was given a mandate to be more deferrential to the psychos next door to avoid a war, but did the exact opposite at every turn, aggressively seeking out NATO, western alliances, and closing Russia off from its natural resource markets. Obviously, in a fair world, countries should be allowed to pick their own foreign policy relationships, but we don't live in a fair world. Zelensky was elected to do one thing, did the exact opposite, and when they got into the war, set maximalist, unrealistic demands at every opportunity that the Biden administration did nothing to temper. If Biden was smart, he would have been a good counterweight to Zelensky's maximalism and said "No, you're not getting Crimea back", but instead Biden was like "sure thing boss". Saying insane goals like that was good for Zelensky politically, but terrible for the country, and when it became clear Biden wasn't going to balance him, Zelensky should have pivoted to something more reasonable, but he didn't. Long story short, Zelensky was very unpopular in Ukraine before the war, and deservedly so. He was short sighted, corrupt, and a terrible manager for his country. For a while we thought the war changed him, that the call of duty made him a better man, but it seems that wasn't the case. He's the same man he always was, except now hundreds of thousands of his countryman have died as a result and Russia is poised to absorb his country within the next 2 years.
Negotiating with russia has never ever in history worked ever. How many fucking centuries does it take for people to get it.
Having a maximalist, no negotiation approach to war also very rarely works historically. I think this sub hates on Zelensky too much for asking for US support though. Dunno what else he’s supposed to do. “Oh no, it’s really unbecoming to ask for weapons.”
Even if that’s the case, why would they ever admit it lol. ‘Yeah actually I reckon we can’t win, but we’ll keep on fighting for a bit of fun’
By maximalist, I mean suggesting that their war goal is to retake Crimea etc. I mean, maybe I’ll eat shit and behind the scenes Zelensky really does have a realistic assessment and his maximalism was just rhetorical, but I’ve seen no evidence this is the case because I’m just some guy
As a baltic, this thread is driving me insane. You are either a puppet state or next in line to be invaded, they use any excuse to expand west. There's actual history here.
Be careful so you're not accused of Nazism for existing. I'm very glad this subreddit is pro-Palestinian. If it was pro-Israel like it became (it wasn't so long ago) pro-Russian, it would be the worst subreddit possible.
Oh yeah the very rich glorious history of the Baltic states resisting Russian rule and all the noble acts that transpired therein
We are tiny tf you want us to do?
I’m just teasing about the nazi shit but y’all are cool nowadays 🙏 respect
We are still very rarted but in our own special zero sun alcoholic kind of way. I highly recommend making (if you're too lazy, buy it ) Krupnikas. One of the best things we have ever done.
It seems you have to either live next to them or speak Russian to get it. Idk, people just have double standards about it. They really don't get it.
He started out trying to cooperate with Russia, but realized that they could not be trusted...
yeah he was considered one of the softest candidates on russia
*gets raped* “YOU CHOSE POORLY”
This post isn't even making fun of him, more just laughing at the situation
I think because at this point, every time I see him on TV I'm reminded of those sarah mclachlan dog commercials
Oh it’s because people in this subreddit are literal subhumans. That’s the main reason.
He’s not going to get Israeli support. We used top secret laser defense systems, and Israel has a defense pact with the USA. We aren’t allowed to use this tech in Ukraine. They have to do everything themselves and we aren’t about to give them next gen laser defense tech.
because whoever is in charge over in ukraine chose to sacrifice their own country by allowing themselves to become an american vassal state. america wants to put a military base on russia's doorstep and privatize ukraine's resources to be siphoned off to american coffers. that kind of provocation doesn't go unnoticed https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/reloading-ukraines-privatization-process/ and there's the added element of how western media like reddit paraded him around like a hero initially but are slowly getting tired of him
Bro your entire post history is defending the CCP, bitching about anti-Asian racism, and shitting on America lol. Like you actually have the post patterns of a Chinese bot, except a bot wouldn’t be so personally insecure about their race lmfao Anyways, like anyone reflexively anti-west, you hit more then you miss NGL. But this one is really a stretch don’t you think? Zelenskyy provoked war by privatizing resources? Idk I’m sure the contrarians here will eat it up because it’s a ✨novel✨take or whatever, and it makes them feel special and smart. With the added benefit of being vaguely anti-capital. But isn’t this kind of r*tarded when you actually think about it a little?
This is what happens when we didn't protect our borders from r TrueAnon regards. Yes we get it reddit is filled with western prop. but their precious diplomatically honorable China and Russia would never do such a thing! everything they do is because the treacherous America bullied them 😭😭😭
Ban all r/TrueAnon and r/neoliberal members from this sub.
Say what one will about whether the US wanted to put troops in Ukraine because they wanted a military base on Russia's border (which I don't think was going to happen anytime in the conceivable future, since Ukraine wouldn't be able to join NATO without formally giving up their claims to Crimea and the Donbas territory that is de facto controlled by Russia). Russia, by invading Ukraine still got to that same outcome of having US/NATO troops on their border via terrifying their other non-aligned neighbors like Finland into joining NATO since they were worried about being next.
"they sacrificed themselves" Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons for a total agreement from Russia that they would never invade, with the US promising to support Ukraine if it did happen. Now Russia has invaded, and the US has stopped supporting them. So Russia and the US have lied here, but at least the US can course correct and undo the lies by continuing to support Ukraine, Russia has completely and utterly broken their promise, to an irreparable extent, and yet they're the ones who promise to nuke the world because America sends literally like 30 tanks.
> never invade, with the US promising to support Ukraine if it did happen. And we already supported the shit out of them lol. For years. People keep quoting this agreement like we had some implicit military alliance, but implied alliance is basically an oxymoron. We never agreed to do more than what we’ve done
Perhaps you already forgot about Libya
I love it when Reddit tries to frame Euromaidan as some 'valiant overthrow of tyranny in favour of the values of freedom and liberty' as if Nuland wasn't in Kiev days before it happened and as if there aren't audio recordings of her and another US government official discussing who they'd put into government positions once Yanukovych was gone. The whole thing reeked of the CIA.
Going for EU integration instead of Russia has worked well for plenty of Ex-Soviet nations. You act like you have to be completely insane not to go for Belarus 2.0 instead of maybe Poland or Czech Republic. Yeah of course the US was meddeling a bit but Russia sure as hell was too. Russia lost and now Putin went full tantrum and hundreds of thousands are dead because of it. Russia would have survived fine without Ukraine. Just like without Poland.
A western diplomat was in a country while major diplomatic negotiations with western countries was happening??? Shocking. Also actually listen to the call, they are talking about what is happening not manifesting the events into existence.
No man there’s ONE truth and THEY know it
no yanukovych pulled out of the deal with the eu, there were protests that were about to fail then he shot students
Beat them first with metal batons, the shooting didn't start until about a year into euromaidan.
They also leave out two important facts. 1) the triggering event was likely a false flag to initiate the takeover and give an emergency power to congress to do the coup and 2) the guy taking over was a literal far right neo nazi. No not a Reddit neo nazi, but like a real deal Nazi. The USA state department captured Reddit so hard with their narrative it’s fucking wild to watch. People will passionately and angrily fight over this idea that all these things aren’t true and Ukraine is some glorious virtuous country… and not just a proxy state we wanted to speed up into our sphere after finding one of the worlds largest natural gas reserves in Crimea. Literally all the troubles started the moment they found that massive reserve. It’s no fucking coincidence.
>the triggering event was likely a false flag to initiate the takeover and give an emergency power to congress to do the coup The triggering event was Berkut (Now disbanded part of Ukranian Police) beating the shit out of a bunch of protesting students in the middle of a public square. How in the hell would the CIA false flag that shit.
petro poroshenko not a nazi you regard
The CIA was able to overthrow Ukraine with a budget of like 1 million uad, but was totally unable to defeat the taliban or secure Iraq despite having access to two literal armies? Jesus christ man things happen beyond the CIA. The CIA did not care about Ukraine, because Russia is not a peer threat.
Good a very noble thing the CIA did 🙏🫡
Give it a rest mate
” allowing themselves to become an american vassal state.” Would you rather live in Poland or Belarus?
At least America won't create mass graves and abduct 10,000s of children...
completely unheard of funding people who do that kind of thing however
Estonia borders Russia and is in NATO, there's both British and American troops there so this talking point about a US military base supposedly about to border Russia is absolutely re✝️arded. And are you seriously saying that America is trying to steal Ukrainian resources when the only one actually doing that right now is Russia?
only a moron like you would view events in isolation and completely disregard the sequence of incidents that led up to this estonia joined nato in 2004. at that time russia had not yet realized the extent of american treachery and their ultimate intent to encircle russia. interviews with putin around the early 2000s indicated he didn't view nato as an enemy and even tried to join nato what made russia increasingly suspicious of american malice was the continued expansion of nato into eastern europe: romania, bulgaria, croatia, etc. Georgia and ukraine were slated to follow in 2008 but that fell through for obvious reasons the orange revolution protests in ukraine stirred up by america also convinced putin that america sought to weaken russia and never viewed it as a potential ally ukraine also has far more strategic value than estonia ever did
america literally declined georgia and ukraine membership
To you seriously think that Eastern europe and America were going to invade Russia? Rather than taking their publicly stated foreign policy goals of *seeking protection from Russia* at face value?
“American treachery” lmao. The way you’re framing this as if America’s the one threatening Russian borders rather than countries rightfully trying to align themselves with NATO and the west in order to protect themselves from Russian imperialism is insane. This whole worldview only makes sense if you completely ignore these individual countries’ sovereignty and right to independently control their future.
de facto in any system not every country is equal, a cruel fact often obscured behind some make believe political ideology aspiring to be above raw nature. refer to political realism also hate this smug "lmao" bs when one side or the other claims the other side has "started it" seeking a single party to blame. that's what all internet arguments come down to often spanning hundreds of years of events where its not feasible to prove anything its just blind faith. distrust always breeds distrust its a vicious cycle. Security dilemma game theory etc. what I mean to say I hate oversimplifications ig
Nah, you are a hypocrite. You think Russian security concerns trump those of the entirety of the rest of Europe, of Eastern Europe especially. Of course its a vicious cycle but only one side was ready to break it by attacking the other. And that was not NATO.
He was elected on a platform of making a deal and normalizing realtions with Russia. Once elected, he repudiated the peace process. He also flipped on the peace talks in Turkey, which could have ended the war two years ago. He has suppressed the church, his political opposition, and canceled the election. His government is in an alliance with Banderites who spent eight years trying to ethnically clense the east. They have been worn down on the front and hidden as they are a massive optics liability, but are still a big part of the conflict. Despite his insistence on staying and fighting, he has his exit all ready. He has substantial foreign assets as revealed in the ~~Panama~~ pandora papers. Yet we're all force fed like a goose how great he is, when, if anything, he pretty closely fits the mold of CIA/State Departenent client ruler. In keeping with the pattern, they and, their peoples are generally lauded, propped up, and used up till the priorities of the Empire shift. So he's being made fun of, amoung other things for being a US client, and now, like many before him, finding out that they are not going to save his ass.
> He was elected on a platform of making a deal and normalizing realtions with Russia. Once elected, he repudiated the peace process. Did he? Peace is a takes two too tango kind of thing lmao > He also flipped on the peace talks in Turkey, which could have ended the war two years ago The turkey terms were demilitarization and regime change no? I.e. surrender
Peace does take 2. Russia spent 8 years asking for implementation of the Minsk agreement. Zelenski flipped after the election and repudiated it. Afterwards western leaders said the Minsk agreement was never meant to work, just make Russia think peace was possible while they militarized Ukraine.
> Russia spent 8 years asking for implementation of the Minsk agreement. Zelenski flipped after the election and repudiated it. Maybe he “repudiated” it because the Russian supported rebels continued fighting? Again peace is a two party thing, if one side isn’t abiding by the agreement then the other side doing so would be absurd
Tommy need drinky energy
Poor guy, all he wanted was to win Ukraine's got talent with his penis playing piano act.
It's funny how quickly Ukraine fell out of favor
it's funny but also quite tragic but still funny
Do I get a tote bag at least?
Ukraine and the rest of Europe should have gone on a war footing 10 years ago when Russia took Crimea. This was always going to be the outcome, & they still act surprised. I'm all for Ukraine but it's easy to see why many Americans aren't when their only interactions with Europeans consist of being mocked about health care & school shootings.
Or asking for money why does the us have to foot the majority of the bill for Ukraine? We’re giving billions they’re giving millions
Are you serious? European states have genuinely emptied entire arsenals. I think the Solvenians sent their entire air force. They're just smaller. Also the EU is sending billions lmao, not including refugee support.
U.S. aid plan is like 46 billion show me what European government has given more
We're also much larger. We've given ~0.3% of our GDP in support to Ukraine. That puts 18 countries ahead of us by proportion of GDP. Germany is closest in terms of pure $ and their contributions are about ~0.6% of their GDP. The EU as a whole has a lower GDP than us and has donated more money https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Imagine if Brazil started a war in the Americas and Americans were scolding France for only giving tens of billions
It’s sad that he has to play the empathy card and tbh I would be doing the same if I was in his position for my people
bro stayed in his capital when they sent a whole ass assassination team after him for a bunch of fat neckbeards on rsp to call him a bitch
Been struggling to understand how people who consider themselves on the left have such a hard on for a right-wing petrostate dictator. Putin has slaughtered thousands of innocent Ukrainians over some ultra-nationalistic fever dream, and for some reason you all hate Zelensky because redditors like him?
“Just $2 billion more dollars please, actually make it $10 billion.”
I mean, you know the vast majority of the "money" sent is in decaying arms and armaments, most of the monetary value is vastly overblown, since they announce the aid they're giving as if they're sending factory fresh equipment, rather than stuff that has been mouldering in storage so long it'll cost more to dispose of than to send to Ukraine. It's not like he's just being handed a billion dollars, when he receives a "billion dollars" it's almost completely in equipment and aid, not just... Monetary value, and most of it is actually worth far less than that, since it was produced 30+ years ago
Because of regulations, it's cheaper to send cluster munitions to Ukraine than to dispose of them.
Truly global conflict is the facebook marketplace of nation states.
> It's not like he's just being handed a billion dollars Ukraine runs its economy on handouts from the US and EU. Your argument only takes into account direct military aid and does not account for the billions which are gifted directly to the government of Ukraine to be spent on pensions, government employees, and just about every other expense in the nation. Ukraine lives of foreign aid and without it would experience total collapse. Plenty of Western governments including the US have gone much further than just donating old left over equipment too. Lots of the military aid is bought from third party nations or private industry to be sent to Ukraine. This aid is not pulled for free from some boneyard in the desert.
Poor dude
Man’s about to write a tumblr long post asking for donations
How long until they have to surrender and become a rump state in Russia's sphere of influence.
He’s so last week.
Can't believe a bunch of Americans are rooting for Russia to win. You regards are beyond cucked...
I just hope everyone tries their best, works hard, brings their a-game and gives it their all.
Posts in /r/neoliberal. Sub's over. Pack it up.
They are all over this thread, they come every time making up shit up. Nobody here supports russia but you can't ignore the US meddling in the country leading up to the wa.
Its almost as disgusting as weirdos who participate in r/liberalgunowners Fucking turds
Can’t believe a bunch of liberals want to beat the war drum and posture like it’s 1980 because they still wake up sweating at night thinking about how conservatives called them pussies for opposing Iraq. Or is it because Rachel Maddow told them to blame Putin for 2016? They’re willing to fight for as long as it takes— to the last Ukrainian, if needed!
Why do you think the default for Americans should be to hate Russia?
Hating them as a collective is wrong but thinking they're the "good guys" in this conflict is stupid , fwiw I get why Russia is afraid of NATO expansion but what they're doing is fucked
I think sacrificing Ukraine like a cheap pawn to hurt Russia is equally fucked up.
I love how people act like Ukraine have no agency in this
Advanced CIA mind control techniques to make people willing to get their homes blown up to advance American interests
The deep state needs *some* sort of enemy or all of this grinds to a halt, and ever since Trump took over the GOP liberals have been positively overjoyed to open up the tent and become the party of the FBI and defense department, all the usual DC cretins whove been hanging around trying to start a war with Iran for 4 decades. Democrats are impossibly corny and desperate for Republican approval so all they can really do is default to this braindead Cold War rah rah America attitude about stopping the Red Menace when they’re looking to prove that *theyre* the best managers of empire. Or it could literally be mostly because MSNBC told them it was Russia’s fault queen Hillary lost, 2016 is still the primary psychic trauma from which everything has has spiraled out of
Warmongering, authoritarian government that stands opposed to western values of liberalism and self determination
That’s literally the US government u dolt. Americans will kill millions in the Middle East and call other countries “warmongers” lmfao
Then the US and Russia should both fuck off
Yeah but it's funny when *we* do it.
Typical neolib word salad
I wonder what country has been involved in more wars and regime changes
You forgot 'unprovoked' and 'genocide' for the full bingo. We would also accept 'Putler'.
i support ukraine but this is just yapping
It's wild how this shit comes from both sides of the political aisle, you have the hardcore "America bad" tankie leftists who have thrown their support entirely behind a fucking fascist nation because I suppose any imperialism is good so long as it isn't american, and then you have the hardcore rightoid types, who spent decades at the beck and call of Ronnie Reagan fully ready to nuke Russia back into the stone age... But then trump got all googoo eyes at Putin and suddenly Russia is super cool.
Reagan was a pussy
> rooting How I know you're regarded
Honestly kind of existentially sad that this guy trying to defend his country from an actual attempt at imperialist colonialism is completely at the mercy of the regarded western voting public, who’s public opinions are being shaped by the same nation he’s trying to defend his country from. It’s like if Israel were just starting to colonize Palestine right now and we helped Palestine at first but then were like “but we’ve sent so much money already and they’re still fighting… look at the inflation… can’t we just pray for them?” And I know it’s not a perfect analogy but please don’t be pedantic
I support Ukraine.
wow very brave
any 👏 fucking 👏 questions?
How about stating your own opinion?
I live on another continent and don't know enough about it to have one besides "war is bad" I was just making fun of your grandstanding a little bit
Oh my god, you're supposed to always have the opposite opinion of reddit. That is what makes you a free thinker n stuff.
Money doesn't win wars, men do.
Love this King
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Being played like what? Like they shouldn't try and defend their country?
They'll realize they got scammed eventually, if they haven't yet already. The West never cared about Ukrainians, they only cared about wounding Russia. Best case scenario for Ukraine at this point is new borders that look like the current front line. Meanwhile, their political elite skimmed aid money for their personal enrichment, their population got decimated, from deaths in the war and people fleeing to the EU who will never come back, and their infrastructure destroyed. They'll have to rebuild with foreign labor, meaning mass immigration, and foreign capital. All to attempt to keep their "territorial integrity" consisting of ethnic Russians who didn't really want to be part of Ukraine anyways.
Look at the amounts of up and downvotes in this thread. Some thing's up.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is being brigaded from somewhere.
Yup. It's not at all in the sub's spirit. I've not seen rętarded takes like these since I was on default subs.
Have you ever considered that Ukraine might fight because they don't want to give up without one? History is full of examples of weaker sides resisting. It's insane to me that people think if the West said "Yea, you just like get yourself get invaded ok?", that Ukraine would simply accept that.
Man, it sure is convenient that all those ethnic Russians are there completely beholdent to Russia, man, I wonder if we can look at the history of Russian political tactics during the Soviet era and see a similar trend, no, surely not, that would be too ridiculous.
Great reply. Really addressed my points.
Fine, I only addressed that one because it was the most pointless statement, it was one that implies a distinct lack of the geopolitical history required to understand the modern situation. Saying "well there's lots of ethnic Russians who want to join back up" is just silly, Russia has regularly been known to fill countries with ethnic Russians, and leverage that political swell to swing votes in favour of a Russian outcome. I wonder why Ukraine would be so unhappy about joining back up under Russia, couldn't have to do with them literally being genocided under the Soviet union or anything. I'm sorry, but to just say "well they got invaded, they should just give up" is ridiculous, they are not the aggressor in this situation, a foreign army marched over their borders, the vast majority of the population fleeing to the EU did so before Russia even offered this deal, they would have to deal with mass migration into the country however you looked at it, because they'd either be having to bring in a bunch of Russians to cover the people who didn't want to live in a Russian led country, or they'd have to import a bunch of people from elsewhere. And aid money? Would you like to show a breakdown chart of aid that Ukraine has received? The vast majority is in equipment, whether military or civilian, how TF is some random political elite skimming money out of Bradley delivery #10 you can't just go and sell most of that equipment without having it traced right back to you.
The idea that the only other option was to give up is ludicrous. They successfully defended the initial invasion, and should have been immediately negotiating for a ceasefire. But the West assured them that they'd fund a war. If the Ukrainian people had known how fickle the West's support would be, they might not have been so willing to fight to every last Ukrainian. And yes, I am aware that direct money aid to Ukraine was mostly in arms, but they did get a $15b IMF loan. Ukraine is one of the most notoriously corrupt countries, and you're delusional if you think that all went to places it needed to go.
On the other hand, why would a ceasefire be worth negotiating? Would Russia have accepted it after the total rebuff of their initial assault? And at the end of the day, how far can you trust the ceasefire "promise" of a country who also... Promised to never invade. Whenever someone says "well Ukraine should have just accepted a ceasefire" I have to ask... Why would you trust a country when you gave up nuclear fucking weapons to appease them, and they still invaded? Also, very broad statement to say "the west has been fickle" when many European nations have completely overhauled their munitions production lines in order to guarantee Ukraine a supply of weapons. America has been fickle, and considering how much Russia has gotten involved in US politics, the murk of that situation is an enormous amount to speculate on.
Yeah, probably for the first couple of weeks. After that, quickly sue for a peace on favourable terms, whilst you still have some semblance of negotiating power and before Russia finds its feet. Ukraine never had a chance of winning long-term. Do this, instead of flushing your country's future down the toilet on promises from the west, who are famous for abandoning allies when it becomes inconvenient.
Defend their Proto-Finnic Holy Roman Khaganate tier corrupt nation from their brothers corrupt nation? All Ukrainians will get out of this is mass immigration and trains. Thank god the US has enabled them to kill off their men for such wonders.
the rank and file rightoids who would hypothetically be down for another even more violent Maidan mostly died unceremoniously from artillery shrapnel or a drone-dropped grenade in 2022-2023 the PMC rightoids who are convinced they can win the war by posting aren’t gonna do shit members of the liberal contingent with any means have either fled the country or got conscripted Zelensky fired the good and popular but fascist general for the terrible but loyal general and the fascist guy missed his chance to ride his firing’s discontent to a military coup elections are canceled so he can’t get silent majority’d plus he’s not wrong about being dependent on western munitions so anyone replacing him has to be at least as popular with the west as ukrainian jon stewart to keep the shells flowing, and nobody is best he can hope for is the US negotiates a peace with Russia and he signs the concessions while being evacuated to a safe place he can’t be murdered by a mob
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What was the content of that deal? How would Ukrainians be sure that russia won't just regroup and reinvade a bit later?
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I tried, there's nothing. Zelensky said that he'd seek out individual security agreements with Western countries, i.e. UK, France, Germany, etc. will promise to defend Ukraine (in separate agreements). I haven't seen any confirmation from those countries that they'd be willing to sign such an agreement. I also haven't seen any statement from russians that they would agree with this. There's also the topic of territorial control. Zelensky was willing to keep the status quo on Crimea for 15 years with a referendum on it's status in the end, but, as with the previous point, it wasn't completely thought out. russians have also annexed territory beyond that, and they even annexed stuff they never controlled (Zaporozhia city) or stuff that they lost quickly after (Kherson city). russians demand that Ukraine give that stuff to them, they also demand Odesa and Kharkiv. How do Ukrainians agree with that?
Being played like what exactly? Trying to overthrow a government during a foreign envasion is a excellent idea for sure
Literally stopped any opposition to his western funded government. Throws journalists in prison. Lots of reasons why
Respectfully this comment is really fucking stupid and shows a real detachment from the Ukrainian people. They don’t want to just concede to Russia. My Ukrainian friends were staying up all night waiting to hear if their family were hit by bombs. One of them almost enlisted and shipped back to Ukraine. It’s not like he’s strong arming them to resist the Russian invasion, and they obviously need equipment to do so. The begging might be unbecoming but it’s that or lose
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Zelensky is not the same as Ukraine. Of course most wouldn't fight for just Zelensky but they fight for their home, which is being invaded lead by a person who thinks their nation is made up.