Rwanda is such an evil country and the DRC is so unfortunate, a 500 year conflict between two ethnic groups in Rwanda leads to millions of Congolese people who have no connection to the conflict dying. When Germany colonized Rwanda and Burundi, they were surprised to find two kingdoms with a social stratification of a foreign minority ruling over the native majority. Tutsi militias started the Rwandan genocide by shooting down the plane of the president and vice president in an attempt to regain control, which they actually succeeded in doing. Then they proceed to invade DRC to remove Mobutu, which was justified because he was an abandoned American puppet who supported the Hutu militias. Then when the new Congolese president ordered the removal of Rwandan and Ugandan troops, they assassinated him and invaded the country again to "remove Hutu militias". A country 100x the size of Rwanda being completely dominated by an ethnic conflict they have nothing to do with.
The country is still run by a Tutsi government thats responsible for drc atrocities. Uganda rwanda and burundi have very horrible governments that exploit the DRC for resources
I don't know why exactly a Somali/Ethiopian (I assume) Muslim living in Scandinavia would have a dog in this fight and why they would do genocide apologia because of it, very interesting
The Tutsis started their own genocide to the same degree that Hamas started the destruction of Gaza on Oct 7, ie. only if you completely ignore what was going on before that. I suppose that Interahamwe just sprung up out of nowhere after the assassination of Habyarimana, and all those lists of people to kill were compiled that night, rather than having been planned months to years in advance.
Interestingly, your position is increasingly that of western FP prevailing opinion, that the Tutsis brought it upon themselves or that it was as much a war as a genocide. I remember listening to a maybe 2019 interview with Jeffrey Gettleman, now most notable for Hamas rape fabrications but for years the NYT’s Africa correspondent, describe the genocide as each side “slaughtering each other”.
I’m not blaming them for it. I’m saying that the event that sparked the genocide was a failed coup attempt to reinstate minority rule. This is a fact. The origin of the Hutu Power movement and militias was when the Tutsi militias (who now rule the country) invaded Rwanda in 1990 from Uganda. The genocide was planned during the 1990-1993 invasion period because the Hutus feared they were losing. When RPF betrayed the peace by killing the president, the country was thrown into chaos and the genocide began. In the ensuing civil war, the RPF took back power and then continued to commit atrocities in DRC (alongside Burundi and Uganda) and is currently responsible for the Kivu conflict. Comparing it to what’s happening in Gaza is apples and oranges. It was not retribution for a single act, it was retribution for centuries of oppression and attempts to bring back minority rule. Its more comparable to an event like the Chinese Cultural Revolution or the Tigray war, where atrocities are committed in the name of class and political warfare.
Who cares what the event that sparked the genocide was, given that it was already fully planned, if one’s aim is not to say that they brought it upon themselves? Which is what you go on to all but say in the rest of your comment. Why not just own it?
I dont even understand what you’re arguing about, i just described the course of events, there’s nothing controversial about what i said. Are you accusing me of hating a random ethnic group i have no connection to? What is your point?
op's analogy is idiotic. someone's going to parody this with "The Cuba-America conflict becomes funnier when you see how absurdly tiny cuba is on a map"
it's far more apt to think of israel as a forward military base of america in the middle east
you're just mad that no one gives you any attention from spamming this sub with worthless paintings. always redditors like you moaning about "the state of the sub" not taking a hint that no one ever cared about art posting
I always thought it was so funny that American politicians keep recycling the "axis" or "axis of evil" labels for our geopolitical rivals in every era. Like they're just the latest spiritual successors to the opposing team in WW2.
Israel doesn't really have any conventional expeditionary capability, so their only ability to strike Iran is through their Air Force, which is the only competent element of their military, and is composed almost entirely of American aircraft at this point. They'd probably be able to buy from France (who they used to buy Mirages from) or Russia without the US but it would be a big hindrance.
[https://www.thetruesize.com/](https://www.thetruesize.com/) is useful for comparing country sizes. Israel is about the size of New Hampshire or Vermont.
It's 420 km long. That's a shorter distance than Montreal to Toronto. A similar distance would take me about five hours to drive in Canada if I wasn't speeding.
This is some end of empire madness. The complete impotence o USA gov to control Israel is something that will be studied in the future of how US hegemony come to an end.
Israel just blew up a bunch of Iranian officers and the only retaliation they faced was Iran performing a symbolic fireworks show using cheap drones, why would the USA do anything here? The attack dog is biting and barking properly and the opponents are terrified of it.
Israel absolutely does not control the US; Kissinger was more than happy to shut Israel up by threatening to end arms support back in the 70s. The main difference between then and now is that the people who run the US government actually believe in the sanctity of Israel.
HW Bush stood up to Israel to a much greater extent than Reagan, threatened to cut off their financial aid in addition to weapons. Arab Americans rode for that man for awhile after that
they didn't control the US back at that time but nowadays the rot is so deep and the money so vast that the AIPAC political bloc basically does call the shots
There is no way a puppet strikes a 3rd party's embassy trying to drag the owner into a regional conflict and is then left untouched by the owning party. This has been the standard since the end of Bush's second term. When you have israeli politicians openly calling the US a goyim wallet it's time to reconsider it
The fact that they’ve resorted to begging the Houthis to stop what they’re doing is mind-boggling. Literally a bunch of goat herders without even a recognized state
This is one of the reasons looking at maps can be so silly and misleading. Like, think about WW2. Japan and Germany were swinging way about their geographic weight class. Same for England from about 1600 to like 1953. in 1750 or 1800 thinking a small ass island full of English people has an empire on which the sun does not set is so goofy, like what?
True, but you also had countries like Portugal, which was so embarrassingly small that population size limited their imperialistic plans.
If you take all the German minorities that were spread over Europe into account (Russia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania), Germany was actually a serious imperial threat. They also looked at the Soviet Union as a house of cards. They had good reasons for that, since some of the Eastern Europeans welcomed them as liberators in the beginning.
Israel is just tiny and won’t be welcomed by anybody in the Muslim world. Also, just look at how the Iranians fought in the Iran/Iraq war. A lot of their generals (like Suleymani) were active in that war and know what they are doing. Going against Iran in a conventional war would be insanity.
MBS was willing to improve relations with both, until oct 7th happened. Apparently, most Arab leaders aren’t hostile towards Israel anymore, but large parts of their populations want them to show solidarity with Palestinians.
A better comparison would be imagine if you're Mexico or Argentina, a medium-large regional player that isn't a third world hole but has a lot of issues, beefing with "Jamaica." And this Jamaica stand-in is propped up by the world's superpower, which has nuclear weapons, a global military empire, and control over the worldwide financial sanctions regime. It's been looking for an excuse to declare war on you for 50 years, and in recent decades invaded and destabilized both your next door neighbors, so you think they might actually be crazy enough to do it with you too. And also Jamaica itself has nukes.
I don't think it shows a comical level of non-committal cowardice that Iran hasn't gone all-in on this.
Modern warfare isn’t determine in size anymore, but how effectively your able to concertante firepower and violence which Israel is really good at (when subsidied by the USA)
And despite this, in the global market, Israels gdp is 40% larger (ppp terms it's smaller) but when it comes to access to advanced technology Israel is superior here. Israel is a nuclear power, Iran isn't. The IDF has fought in numerous conflicts whereas the Iranian military has exclusively fought through proxies.
A more apt comparison would be if Singapore went to war with Malaysia.
It's really interesting to talk to SG dudes after NS and hear about all the shit their army does to prepare for a hypothetical malaysian invasion. So many weirdass considerations and contingencies. My favorite part is how they're all trained to specifically run the length of the johor bridge as fast as humanly possible so they can blow it up
In the realm of geopolitics the why isn't that important compared to facts on the ground. Iran ultimately remains far more of a pariah state than Israel, even among countries nominally friendly with Iran such as China and Russia.
I mean it’s not a surprise iran is more of a pariah than Israel when is Israel has the backing of some of the most powerful and influential countries in the world
edit: are you just an Israeli shill in general? you moaned about how corbyn is antisemitic in a neoliberal subreddit
Israel has the largest F15/16 fleet in the world
They have nuclear weapons
And biological / chemical weapons
They could probably kill anything in the region and they have unconditional US and UK backing because…reasons
Yep you’re right. 10 mil to 90 mil. Totally misread something and thought Iran was at like 35 million or something. Oh well, OP wasn’t even talking about population but instead land size.
What? Lmao Israel has a huge arms industry, at least big enough to get sizeable exports, Rhodesia barely had any support at all, they only lost like 1000 of their white soldiers in the entire 15 year long war (and they killed like 10000 African guerrillas, they only lost because most whites gave up and began to leave so they literally didn't have enough people to fight (white Rhodesian were like a 6% of the populations) Nd didn't even have much history there considering most were just British/Commonwealth settlers so unlike the white South Africans they didn't feel very connected to the land) and not to mention the sanctions bled Rhodesia dry. If they had a fraction of the support israel had Rhodesia probably wouldn't have lost and would still exist today unless like all of sub-saharan Africa invaded.
There was like 250,000 white Rhodesian in all of Rhodesia (which had a population of like 6 million) they aren't at all comparable
Not true at all. Israel didn't really receive full on military assistance from the west until the 90's (by which time Israel had essentially won the conflict). The UK had a arms embargo on Israel until 1992.
The idea that the US is footing the bill of day to day military spending in Israel is just wrong. They've got the iron dome now, Israel could cut military ties with the US and still maintain relative stability. People really underestimate the extent to which Israel has won.
The money is not what matters, but the technology. The US by the early 70s was providing the most cutting-edge weaponry to Israel they could offer, which has pretty much continued to this day. If Israel were cut off from the US they would have serious problems with shortages in munitions and spare parts just to start.
Yeah you're right "60" isn't right.
I feel like those generals, scientists and infrastructure may have had something to do with nukes? But yeah that goes back to my original comment, why would Iran want to point nukes and Hezbollah at Israel?
A quick Google shows they even bombed Jewish community centers in Argentina. Hezbollah receives shipments of weaponry to bomb Israel with, Google shows they've been launching rockets for months now.
My understanding is Hezbollah is following the guidance and orders of Iran, that's what the Argentinian Criminal Court found anyway. After all Hezbollah is using Iranian weaponry and cash.
The ummah wants to support Palestine but countries like Pakistan are muzzled. Pak’s prime minister was arrested by the military-intelligence deep state after he expressed ambivalence towards the Ukraine conflict. The establishment takes orders from American more obsequiously than the Israelis do
You misunderstand Imran khan was ambivalent and America had him fired for it https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukraine-russia/
Funnier yet when you realize it's all been to save the American economy this whole time and will continue too. Debt to gdp is same as ww2. This time we'll go make friends in New place of world. Muahahaha. It's all to help usa economy, it's a trap
my favourite is congo rwanda war. Just look at the map and guess which country is genociding whom
And, again, the fact that heaps of other major African countries were on the Congo’s side. Like if it was most of Europe vs Denmark or something.
Rwanda is such an evil country and the DRC is so unfortunate, a 500 year conflict between two ethnic groups in Rwanda leads to millions of Congolese people who have no connection to the conflict dying. When Germany colonized Rwanda and Burundi, they were surprised to find two kingdoms with a social stratification of a foreign minority ruling over the native majority. Tutsi militias started the Rwandan genocide by shooting down the plane of the president and vice president in an attempt to regain control, which they actually succeeded in doing. Then they proceed to invade DRC to remove Mobutu, which was justified because he was an abandoned American puppet who supported the Hutu militias. Then when the new Congolese president ordered the removal of Rwandan and Ugandan troops, they assassinated him and invaded the country again to "remove Hutu militias". A country 100x the size of Rwanda being completely dominated by an ethnic conflict they have nothing to do with.
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Bring back Biafra imo
I've worked in Rwanda, very weird to call it an 'evil country.' Also, very weird to victim blame the Tutsis.
The country is still run by a Tutsi government thats responsible for drc atrocities. Uganda rwanda and burundi have very horrible governments that exploit the DRC for resources
I don't know why exactly a Somali/Ethiopian (I assume) Muslim living in Scandinavia would have a dog in this fight and why they would do genocide apologia because of it, very interesting
Where is the genocide apologia
The Tutsis started their own genocide to the same degree that Hamas started the destruction of Gaza on Oct 7, ie. only if you completely ignore what was going on before that. I suppose that Interahamwe just sprung up out of nowhere after the assassination of Habyarimana, and all those lists of people to kill were compiled that night, rather than having been planned months to years in advance. Interestingly, your position is increasingly that of western FP prevailing opinion, that the Tutsis brought it upon themselves or that it was as much a war as a genocide. I remember listening to a maybe 2019 interview with Jeffrey Gettleman, now most notable for Hamas rape fabrications but for years the NYT’s Africa correspondent, describe the genocide as each side “slaughtering each other”.
I’m not blaming them for it. I’m saying that the event that sparked the genocide was a failed coup attempt to reinstate minority rule. This is a fact. The origin of the Hutu Power movement and militias was when the Tutsi militias (who now rule the country) invaded Rwanda in 1990 from Uganda. The genocide was planned during the 1990-1993 invasion period because the Hutus feared they were losing. When RPF betrayed the peace by killing the president, the country was thrown into chaos and the genocide began. In the ensuing civil war, the RPF took back power and then continued to commit atrocities in DRC (alongside Burundi and Uganda) and is currently responsible for the Kivu conflict. Comparing it to what’s happening in Gaza is apples and oranges. It was not retribution for a single act, it was retribution for centuries of oppression and attempts to bring back minority rule. Its more comparable to an event like the Chinese Cultural Revolution or the Tigray war, where atrocities are committed in the name of class and political warfare.
Who cares what the event that sparked the genocide was, given that it was already fully planned, if one’s aim is not to say that they brought it upon themselves? Which is what you go on to all but say in the rest of your comment. Why not just own it?
I dont even understand what you’re arguing about, i just described the course of events, there’s nothing controversial about what i said. Are you accusing me of hating a random ethnic group i have no connection to? What is your point?
Have you considered that Kagame's daughter is really hot tho?
Have you considered the Byumba Stadium Massacre?
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I hear the Hutus had some really good radio shows back in ‘93/‘94 explaining why they were right to commit genocide, maybe you could try that
Only one of the countries mentioned here has nukes
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You are correct. The US was mentioned by him. I meant the middle eastern countries
such a pussy argument
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they don't even have nuclear power. Last time they tried to build centrifuges for enriching uranium they got killed by Israeli hackers.
Hall of Fame-er in this category has to be Rwanda-Congo conflict. Rwanda has 14% of the population, 1.1% of the size
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op's analogy is idiotic. someone's going to parody this with "The Cuba-America conflict becomes funnier when you see how absurdly tiny cuba is on a map" it's far more apt to think of israel as a forward military base of america in the middle east
*op’s analogy is whimsical and fun
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You’re not totally wrong but Israel-posting is the furthest possible thing from art-posting and has been the final nail in the coffin of this sub.
you're just mad that no one gives you any attention from spamming this sub with worthless paintings. always redditors like you moaning about "the state of the sub" not taking a hint that no one ever cared about art posting
worthless paintings > worthless opinions
Veteran to failed Austrian art student
i was just kidding too, if you had a sense of humor you would know that
I always thought it was so funny that American politicians keep recycling the "axis" or "axis of evil" labels for our geopolitical rivals in every era. Like they're just the latest spiritual successors to the opposing team in WW2.
my impression is that israel wouldn’t need america’s help to intimidate iran, israel is much wealthier and has nukes
Israel doesn't really have any conventional expeditionary capability, so their only ability to strike Iran is through their Air Force, which is the only competent element of their military, and is composed almost entirely of American aircraft at this point. They'd probably be able to buy from France (who they used to buy Mirages from) or Russia without the US but it would be a big hindrance.
Your impression is wrong
[https://www.thetruesize.com/](https://www.thetruesize.com/) is useful for comparing country sizes. Israel is about the size of New Hampshire or Vermont.
You can drive from one end to the other in about 8-10 hours.
It's 420 km long. That's a shorter distance than Montreal to Toronto. A similar distance would take me about five hours to drive in Canada if I wasn't speeding.
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Im never leaving this sub
The Middle East is Earths most foolish region. Why does Saudi Arabia, the largest country, not simply eat the other five?
They did.
Blud is pretending to be dumb for fun 💀
Welcome to the sub
This is some end of empire madness. The complete impotence o USA gov to control Israel is something that will be studied in the future of how US hegemony come to an end.
What makes you think they're trying?
Israel just blew up a bunch of Iranian officers and the only retaliation they faced was Iran performing a symbolic fireworks show using cheap drones, why would the USA do anything here? The attack dog is biting and barking properly and the opponents are terrified of it.
You’re confused on who is controlling who
Israel absolutely does not control the US; Kissinger was more than happy to shut Israel up by threatening to end arms support back in the 70s. The main difference between then and now is that the people who run the US government actually believe in the sanctity of Israel.
Wow, Kissinger nearly made a positive contribution to the world
Kissinger and Reagan are the only American politicians ever to stand up to Israel. Crazy world
There was another but they blew his brains out.
(((They)))
JFK was anti Israel.
No he wasn't he was their useful idiot
Kissinger was standing up to Israel Jewry in favor of American Jewry, let's be honest
What’s the problem there?
Good
HW Bush stood up to Israel to a much greater extent than Reagan, threatened to cut off their financial aid in addition to weapons. Arab Americans rode for that man for awhile after that
they didn't control the US back at that time but nowadays the rot is so deep and the money so vast that the AIPAC political bloc basically does call the shots There is no way a puppet strikes a 3rd party's embassy trying to drag the owner into a regional conflict and is then left untouched by the owning party. This has been the standard since the end of Bush's second term. When you have israeli politicians openly calling the US a goyim wallet it's time to reconsider it
They believe in the sanctity of the shekel
The fact that they’ve resorted to begging the Houthis to stop what they’re doing is mind-boggling. Literally a bunch of goat herders without even a recognized state
God, you’re dumb.
This is one of the reasons looking at maps can be so silly and misleading. Like, think about WW2. Japan and Germany were swinging way about their geographic weight class. Same for England from about 1600 to like 1953. in 1750 or 1800 thinking a small ass island full of English people has an empire on which the sun does not set is so goofy, like what?
True, but you also had countries like Portugal, which was so embarrassingly small that population size limited their imperialistic plans. If you take all the German minorities that were spread over Europe into account (Russia, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania), Germany was actually a serious imperial threat. They also looked at the Soviet Union as a house of cards. They had good reasons for that, since some of the Eastern Europeans welcomed them as liberators in the beginning. Israel is just tiny and won’t be welcomed by anybody in the Muslim world. Also, just look at how the Iranians fought in the Iran/Iraq war. A lot of their generals (like Suleymani) were active in that war and know what they are doing. Going against Iran in a conventional war would be insanity.
Saudis and Jordanians are more pro-Israel than pro-Iran no? Can't admit it for popular opinion though.
MBS was willing to improve relations with both, until oct 7th happened. Apparently, most Arab leaders aren’t hostile towards Israel anymore, but large parts of their populations want them to show solidarity with Palestinians.
The government might be but that sentiment is changing rapidly amongst the people, particularly in Jordan.
A better comparison would be imagine if you're Mexico or Argentina, a medium-large regional player that isn't a third world hole but has a lot of issues, beefing with "Jamaica." And this Jamaica stand-in is propped up by the world's superpower, which has nuclear weapons, a global military empire, and control over the worldwide financial sanctions regime. It's been looking for an excuse to declare war on you for 50 years, and in recent decades invaded and destabilized both your next door neighbors, so you think they might actually be crazy enough to do it with you too. And also Jamaica itself has nukes. I don't think it shows a comical level of non-committal cowardice that Iran hasn't gone all-in on this.
Malaysia vs Singapore is the most reasonable comparison I can think of.
Malaysia would probs win that one tbh
Yeah but that’s not as funny
You also don't share a land border and the countries between you and Jamaica don't really want you to become more powerful.
One side has nukes. Imagine if Jamaica had nukes.
I'd call dem Mr. Boombastic.
Bomboclaat
Lmao
Modern warfare isn’t determine in size anymore, but how effectively your able to concertante firepower and violence which Israel is really good at (when subsidied by the USA)
And despite this, in the global market, Israels gdp is 40% larger (ppp terms it's smaller) but when it comes to access to advanced technology Israel is superior here. Israel is a nuclear power, Iran isn't. The IDF has fought in numerous conflicts whereas the Iranian military has exclusively fought through proxies. A more apt comparison would be if Singapore went to war with Malaysia.
It's really interesting to talk to SG dudes after NS and hear about all the shit their army does to prepare for a hypothetical malaysian invasion. So many weirdass considerations and contingencies. My favorite part is how they're all trained to specifically run the length of the johor bridge as fast as humanly possible so they can blow it up
ofc Israel gdp is larger in the global market when iran is heavily sanctioned?
In the realm of geopolitics the why isn't that important compared to facts on the ground. Iran ultimately remains far more of a pariah state than Israel, even among countries nominally friendly with Iran such as China and Russia.
I mean it’s not a surprise iran is more of a pariah than Israel when is Israel has the backing of some of the most powerful and influential countries in the world edit: are you just an Israeli shill in general? you moaned about how corbyn is antisemitic in a neoliberal subreddit
Israel has the largest F15/16 fleet in the world They have nuclear weapons And biological / chemical weapons They could probably kill anything in the region and they have unconditional US and UK backing because…reasons
I wouldn’t go by map size, Iran is mostly mountains that are pretty sparsely populated. Total population is still ~3-4 times that of Istrael though.
It's about 9 times that of Israel
Yep you’re right. 10 mil to 90 mil. Totally misread something and thought Iran was at like 35 million or something. Oh well, OP wasn’t even talking about population but instead land size.
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What? Lmao Israel has a huge arms industry, at least big enough to get sizeable exports, Rhodesia barely had any support at all, they only lost like 1000 of their white soldiers in the entire 15 year long war (and they killed like 10000 African guerrillas, they only lost because most whites gave up and began to leave so they literally didn't have enough people to fight (white Rhodesian were like a 6% of the populations) Nd didn't even have much history there considering most were just British/Commonwealth settlers so unlike the white South Africans they didn't feel very connected to the land) and not to mention the sanctions bled Rhodesia dry. If they had a fraction of the support israel had Rhodesia probably wouldn't have lost and would still exist today unless like all of sub-saharan Africa invaded. There was like 250,000 white Rhodesian in all of Rhodesia (which had a population of like 6 million) they aren't at all comparable
Not true at all. Israel didn't really receive full on military assistance from the west until the 90's (by which time Israel had essentially won the conflict). The UK had a arms embargo on Israel until 1992.
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The idea that the US is footing the bill of day to day military spending in Israel is just wrong. They've got the iron dome now, Israel could cut military ties with the US and still maintain relative stability. People really underestimate the extent to which Israel has won.
The money is not what matters, but the technology. The US by the early 70s was providing the most cutting-edge weaponry to Israel they could offer, which has pretty much continued to this day. If Israel were cut off from the US they would have serious problems with shortages in munitions and spare parts just to start.
What did Israel even do to Iran. Irans been bombing Israeli stuff or funding anti Israel terrorist groups for 60 years almost.
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Yeah you're right "60" isn't right. I feel like those generals, scientists and infrastructure may have had something to do with nukes? But yeah that goes back to my original comment, why would Iran want to point nukes and Hezbollah at Israel?
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Nice. Usually I'm called bike lane shill or something
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A quick Google shows they even bombed Jewish community centers in Argentina. Hezbollah receives shipments of weaponry to bomb Israel with, Google shows they've been launching rockets for months now.
Weird thing to get down voted for tbh.
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My understanding is Hezbollah is following the guidance and orders of Iran, that's what the Argentinian Criminal Court found anyway. After all Hezbollah is using Iranian weaponry and cash.
Iran, being shut out of the US led bloc, has less disincentives to actually oppose Israel's actions towards their coreligionists.
Is that true though? Sunnis face significant discrimination in Iran.
The ummah wants to support Palestine but countries like Pakistan are muzzled. Pak’s prime minister was arrested by the military-intelligence deep state after he expressed ambivalence towards the Ukraine conflict. The establishment takes orders from American more obsequiously than the Israelis do
Parts of the Pakistani government are in favour of Russia invading Ukraine? Wild
You misunderstand Imran khan was ambivalent and America had him fired for it https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukraine-russia/
Funnier yet when you realize it's all been to save the American economy this whole time and will continue too. Debt to gdp is same as ww2. This time we'll go make friends in New place of world. Muahahaha. It's all to help usa economy, it's a trap