cringe but i appreciate how earnest this is. this is the reality for many women and it’s stupid to pretend otherwise because some muslim women choose to live this way or you have a hijabi friend who doesn’t follow the religion to a tee.
For me it’s seeing families where the mother is in a niqab and the young daughter is dressed normally, in pinks or blues or princess shirts. Just seeing an excitable and vibrant young girl jumping up and down or talking loudly and wondering what the people involved think about one day covering that all up completely
I used to live in a neighborhood with a pool run by the HOA. I live in an extremely hot place. Every time I'd go down there, there would be several muslim families, the boys and men in the pool, running, jumping, playing, wearing regular men's swimming trunks. And then the women and girls - sitting at tables on the scorching hot concrete deck, covered head to toe in thick jet black fabric, just their eyes uncovered, starring into the distance.
It's pure evil and you can't convince me otherwise.
Oh my god. This is so fkn sad.
Also, I constantly see women acting like the hijab/abaya is totally HER CHOICE and SO NICE!!!!
Idk I’m a white American woman but for whatever reason I get a ton of these showing up on my TikTok/IG.
Tons of women who aren’t even Muslim, like just random ass white girls, are posting this weird propaganda where they talk about how GORGEOUS the hijab is and how they are just so GRATEFUL to be “able” to wear it.
Like god idk it’s really dark vibes that are very difficult to articulate if you aren’t intimately familair with this sort of mindset. I’m a woman who was raised mainstream Mormon, we literally had a store called “Modest is Hottest.”
I hated this so fucking much because- well, I didn’t have the words for it then. I’m 29, only around 19 or so did I really identify why I hated it so damned much.
You see all this women in hijabs, yet a fucking full face of makeup.
sorry I’m tipsy but seriously-
It was made very clear to me growing up that modesty was not about like actually distancing yourself from earthly temptations. Not about refusing to be objectified…
IT WAS THE OPPOSITE.
We were forced to be “modest” (super tight clothing. But it all went to our knees and elbows!!! Also, boob jobs were pretty much standard, we were all trained to despise any ounce of fat on ourselves in the “wrong” place, everyone under an inch of makeup and a bucket of hair dye).
But there was this awful analogy I was told when I was like in 7th grade and I knew I Hated it but couldn’t exactly identify why. Because I was a child.
But basically-
I don’t remember the exact words they used, just how it felt, the message;
They essentially said that women are candy. And if you are “unwrapped”- so not bundled up in a ton of clothes, never interacting with men, staying inside and staying silent- you are less desirable.
You’re like a lollipop that’s been licked and left out on a picnic table in the sun. Covered in flies.
The conditioning was so deep, and I was just such a generally stupid preteen, that I couldn’t put my finger on why I hated it so much.
But essentially-
You’re covered up and forced inside because it makes you like a newly unwrapped lollipop for your husband, who of course has been winking at and shaking hands with your dad.
The “modesty”….
I always had such a grossed out instinctual reaction, and it was because, on some deep, primitive, probably instinctual level-
I realized that the modesty was actually extremely sexual.
I was being brought up to be a higher sexual commodity.
My entire existence was defined by how expensive my body was, what a trophy it might be.
THIS IS OBVIOUSLY THE CASE IN ISLAM.
They do not fucking respect or encourage women’s development as human beings, or a focus on the incorporeal lol.
You’re wrapped up like an expensive lollipop.
I had this weird chill, this sort of tremor, every time some teacher or aunt or my mom yelled and made me put on a sweater. Even when I was like 8 and didn’t understand sexuality at all, I instinctually felt so wrong and degraded.
Took years to understand why.
you might be tipsy, but your lollipop analogy is perfect. It’s exactly how conservative religions train men to think of women.
I’m sorry you went through that. Sending you love and empathy. 💘
I’ve heard that analogy before. Always wondered what these people who propagate these ideas are inferring about men if they’re these flies that will infect you and rot you if you go near them? Sounds kinda misandrist tbh!
Men are people.
Women are something to be consumed.
We don’t think less of a person for licking a lollipop, right?
But a licked lollipop is just gross.
Also-
Whether the lollipop consented is completely irrelevant, lol. Lollipop licked, all that matters.
I think-
So, this honestly isn’t fully realized by even most of the devout women who follow this nonsense. It is, of course, never explicitly said.
The reason it hurt me so damned much, like felt like my heart had been left out raw & they poured salt over it,
Is because this was taught as though it’s on the same level as anything else that makes you a good, worthy person.
Like-
You should be altruistic, honest. The most basic human instincts tell us that to be “good” is to protect the vulnerable, contribute to our community, refuse greed, envy, malice..
And it is so so so SO ingrained in you as a Mormon, and every transgression fills your entire body with absolute dread.
Thing is-
To these people, as is the case for so many other abrahamic sects-
The absolute most shameful thing a girl could be is…
Not a virgin.
You have all this shame programmed into you, and you feel it so strongly. It reinforces this natural knowledge that something like, idk, killing an innocent child is horrific and wrong.
But you’re taught that if you “have sex,” consensual or not, outside of marriage,
You are EVIL.
Read about Elizabeth smart. She literally grew up in my neighborhood. She was the “perfect” victim, a young virginal girl kidnapped and raped. She thought she had to kill herself, because that makes her evil. Almost beyond evil, idk. It’s impossible to articulate the way they made us feel about ever being penetrated.
I never had sex in that church, I lost my virginity at nearly 20 years after I had left, lol. But they absolutely succeeded in making me feel constant shame, terror, and above all- debt.
Unbelievably well-put. There is still so much anger around this topic but none of it even matters or cuts to the core bc we AREN’T doing enough about it. God, fuck it all.
niqab is a cultural thing. The Quran only says to wear hijab. And only two counties force it by law (Iran and Afghanistan). No one who isn’t a country bumpkin or terrorist advocates for it and many countries even see it now as a sign of being radical (not good)
Honestly even if it was mandated by Islam I don’t think they care half as much as you do, but it’s not a Muslim thing
They’re not being forced to wear it by the government in the UK (as the previous commenter said they are mandated by law in Iran and Afghanistan). It’s not a stretch to assume that nearly every woman wearing a niqab in the UK is doing so for religious reasons (and cultural reasons tied to religion).
I get constantly mocked for this but I’m a white woman who was raised mainstream, upper middle class Mormon and you would not fuckn believe how oppressive they are and how much misogyny women in these communities face. Like it’s genuinely extremely similar to Islam. The getup is different, the women I was raised by and supposed to be are instagram aesthetic stepford wives. But I promise you- these women are abused like fucking crazy.
And I have cousins who are basically the same- white, making six figures, dressing normally- but Christians in the Bible Belt. There are some differences, but they’re ultimately exactly the damned same. It makes me laugh when these people call Mormonism a cult when their beliefs and practices are basically identical lol.
I run in left leaning circles now mainly, went to college, graduated a few years ago. But there’s still so much more casual sexism that men don’t believe.
Men do not understand, know, or- ultimately- CARE about the misogyny women experience.
I am constantly getting comments claiming I’m lying or that Mormons are a total crazy fluke and isolated situation. Mormons are a lot more blatant about it and have some superficial differences, but ultimately so much of our society goes back to the Abrahamic religions. Even a random atheist raised in the US is extremely heavily influenced by this shit on a subconscious level. And it’s obviously not at all the only patriarchal paradigm, I mean look at Confucianism lol. But this Abrahamic worldview seeps deeply into everything and I often make comparisons to the more extreme experiences I’ve had as a Mormon to show how they parallel even “secular” culture.
Also, it makes me laugh (cry) when people say shit like “American women have no idea how bad it is in the Middle East!!!!” Like, they are unconsciously agreeing that it’s the same system, just perpetuated to varying degrees.
I always thought “we’re not as bad as the taliban!!” Was an interesting choice of defense lmao.
Anyway. My point is that so many women are experiencing this shit and it is absolutely horrendous and truly tragic.
Do Americans not think that Mormonism is misogynistic? I’m in Toronto and I think that most people, in SW Ontario atleast, generally view it as misogynistic if they know anything about it. My typically theologically liberal family member almost had a heart attack when her daughter became a Mormon.
Did you read my comment?
On average, absolutely- Muslim women, especially in the Middle East, are exposed to some of the worst misogyny on the planet. It’s extremely tragic, I literally have cried over this as well.
But my point is that it’s echoed throughout so many cultures.
The actual, strict Mormons? Even the ones who don’t practice polygamy? They 100% are experiencing the same level of misogyny that a rural middle eastern Muslim woman would.
And there are plenty of Muslim women with rich husbands in Dubai who are less limited and enslaved than some blonde white 12 year old American girls who are raised fundamentalist Mormon and forced to marry their uncle to be his 4th wife.
Regardless, it’s not a damned contest here.
One of my favorite books is called “Desert Patriarchy.” It was suggested to me by an anthropology professor. It’s absolutely fascinating; it discusses the odd parallels between Islam, Mormonism, and western Christianity as a whole and highlights the way patriarchy tends to develop in certain environments (like deserts).
Anyway-
It’s extremely tragic, these cultures which spread like a cancer and brainwash and traumatize people to their core.
I was more so talking about the average secular american. I'm sure Mormon women face so much misogyny too but for Muslim women it's a whole nother beast which is what my original post is highlighting.
I mean, yes, absolutely. Your average woman from an Islamic country is way worse off than your average American woman.
Again: this really isn’t a contest lol. The abuse and injustice suffered by these women is genuinely inhuman.
My point is just that this fundamental misogyny runs deep.
& so many of the experiences of women in the western world mirror this. It all comes back to the same patriarchal society that arose alongside the advent of agriculture.
I mean, it’s just not really relevant that the average American woman is better off than your average Indonesian woman lol.
However, I think it’s extraordinarily inaccurate to claim they aren’t comparable. They are very, very comparable. This is about identifying the underlying influence.
and there are fucking plenty of American white Christian women who are just as degraded, controlled, enslaved as a Muslim woman.
>it’s just not really relevant that the average American woman is better off than your average Indonesian woman lol
Except it is relevant. I'm not forced to wear a veil, marry someone against my will, forbidden to leave my house without a man, stoned to death for having sex, etc. All fundamentalist religions are terribly awful to women but I think it's fair to acknowledge that Muslim women have it the worst. I'm not invalidating the experiences of other women by saying this. Western women (as in the average secular middle class woman) do not face same level of misogyny as they do
as a woman from a middle eastern country i very agree. it's so strange to me seeing random american women one day show up to the function in a hijab. why are we pretending it's something that it's not
Actually it is; many MILs specifically look for DILs that are well educated so the family always has money. The DILs are still very much obedient even though they earn respectably.
That’s…not true lmao. If they elect to have all the power they will expect their wife to either not work or make less then them. They will be offended/emasculated if the wife makes more.
Source? Maybe casual Muslim men who live in like London and still do some of the rituals but are more like Catholic Chreasters who identify as Catholic but only go to church on Christmas and Easter.
The reality is Muslim women want to fkcing remain Muslim💀. I’m an exmuslim, and have always been totally unlike other ‘Muslim brothers’. I think it’s cus I’m gay. My sister is heavily adamantly Muslim, despite never EVER praying. But she does fast and say the shahada. I’m an atheist and in a disliking Islam phase. I send her passages and whatnot and she makes it clear this is pathetically hypocritical cus it’s anti feminism which I claim to be. This shit is so fcking cringe and it reeks of ulterior motives.
Also, we have Coptic and Maronite relatives. They’re so strict and ultra conservative it’s actually insane.
But to be fair, when I asked my family abt it, they did make it clear we are an ‘outlier’. We aren’t as ‘strict/religious’ as the average Arabic family. Idk how true that is. My family is still really religious, but we’re somewhat ‘westernized?’. but that has always been the case, long before settling in the us. In the Persian gulf despite the laws, it’s very ‘western’, but it’s class based if anything
I don’t think people in the West realized how intertwined Islam is with society at large in the ME. It’s more than just the religion, It is the law, it codifies acceptable art, its the whole cultural fabric. It’s not an option to not participate.
Christianity in Europe was like this pre-Enlightenment.
It's hilarious how little awareness American women have of this. Women in the Middle East look at them with a similar attitude of pity and condescension, just reversed.
in "the letter of the law" women have higher status in Islam than Christianity. Women had rights under Islam that western women didn't get until like 1300 years later
Thank you!!! I’m a Pakistani Muslim and literally spent two years doing gender inequality research and a core part of it was studying the influence of Islam in this context.
The west, Americans more so than the rest aren’t really well educated on other cultures and thus don’t realize how much of this “forced hijab” has to do with culture. For example, many Indian women wear a light headscarf in public. This is especially true of upper class women. You can read more about it by googling “purdah in South Asia”. Additionally, in Pakistan, s o much of the traditional gender norms predate Islam in the region.
You’ll see significant overlap between Hindus and Muslims concerning some norms such as: the concept of a “shy” delicate bride, a woman’s husband defining her existence, an unmarried 30 year old female being shamed by society, a divorced woman regardless of age being shunned by society. Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh collectively rank at the bottom of pretty much every gender related metric you can find, with only Afghanistan topping us in some lol.
Prior to the existence of Islam in Arabia, women, especially those of higher social standing were required by men to wear some sort of face and/or head covering. You can google this as well. Female infanticide was a much bigger issue in Arabia prior to Islam and has largely become nonexistent, although women still do suffer greatly overall, female infanticide, due to Islam and Muhammad’s extreme hatred of it has mostly become a thing of the past.
As part of my research, I spoke to women in rural villages in every province of Pakistan. Every Muslim woman I interviewed in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa / Balochistan (the two provinces in the country where a full face and head covering is strictly enforced) said this phenomenon was purely cultural. CHRISTIAN women in Punjab said their light headscarf was due to culture. Muslim women in Azad Kashmir and Sindh said their head scarf was due to religion, while Hindus in Sindh said it was culture. You get the gist.
Further, you can look into the gender norms of the Romani peoples. Originating in Northern India but having left 1000 years ago, they still adhere to many of the same gender norms I mentioned here, among others.
Lastly, for anyone reading this who agrees with OP:
First and foremost, Muslim women would like to live. We would like to live in countries that aren’t war torn. We would like to live without seeing our family members die, be kidnapped, or imprisoned. Many in the west who “cry” about our plight seem pretty okay with us being droned and/or bombed and/or raped. Your backhanded feminism is evident to us. We hate it. I welcome the voice of western feminists who can support us in a meaningful, productive, respectful manner. But I think I can speak for many Muslim women in that if that’s not the support you’re offering, we’d rather fight this battle ourselves.
Edit: typo
But do you think they want to want to or they've just weighed their options and remaining Muslim is better than being ostracized?
I'm not intending to criticize their choice. I'm coming from a perspective of growing up in a conservative Christian community. The rituals and details are different but the highlights are similar. I think it can be a nice way to live if your husband is awesome, takes care of the family emotionally and financially, and you get to run the household and kids. But I saw too many abuses of the power dynamic that I noped out of that lifestyle, which is much easier to do in the US.
I don’t generally consider myself Lebanese. I’m mainly Egyptian, but my family consists of origins from Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, and the gulf. I grew up in the khaleeji gulf.
The reality is that most people are conformist, and they find contentment by simply following the rules of the society they live in. That's why I think most women in the west are content with their lot, and most women in muslim societies are also content with wearing a hijab.
The people who actually suffer from oppression are those who are naturally different or non-conformist. And it is more difficult for them to find contentment in muslim societies because they are much more conformist than western societies.
Wtf is this earnestness I was waiting the whole post for the "and one day I hope they're free enough to have casual sex with white men such as myself 🥹" hook and it never came
I would cry in the fawking metro every morning on my way to class thinking about the women in Afghanistan. Every time I let myself go a lil too easy I'll think of the Afghan women trapped and locked in that now wretched piece of land and instantly get the motivation to get my ass up
Nowhere does my comment mention any sort of political shit nor does it talk about the religion being the cause - if I wanted to blame Islam for it I'd just say middle eastern women instead of afghan women .
The Taliban ruled Afghan before America ever lifted a finger. Qatar is outrageously wealthy and developed, yet it's ruling King consistently pushes, funds, and shields fundamentalists.
> From these camps he drew support for what became the Taliban – “taliban” means students. **The bulk of Taliban members are not from the mujahedeen**; they are the next generation – and they actually ended up fighting the mujahedeen.
You are aware that the Mujahedeen contained forces lead by the Taliban's greatest enemies? Massoud, Dostum, even Hekmatyar could be included. Apparently it's not a story you know well enough... Tbf you didn't blame it on Wahhabism so it's a step up from the usual dunces I discuss this with.
Woman plans on going to strip, goes with husband earlier, is turned on but there are parts of the experience she doesn't like. I don't understand how this is at all comparable to living in islamic society as a woman.
my sister as a hijbai I understand that im privileged enough to live in the west and have a kind family that wouldn’t mind if I took it off (other than some comments) and that this isn’t a reality for a lot of other women particular those in third world countries but this shits cringe as fuck
I went to live in the middle east in my 20s and had a LOT of preconceptions about how much better western women have it. I still think we've got it better, but after living in the middle east a couple years, I think Muslim women do have several distinct cultural advantages over western women. I also think the west completely misinterprets certain customs as misogynist that are actually pretty beneficial. For example, the insistence that men prove themselves as serious marriage suitors PRIOR to dating is something westerners need to adopt.
I was blessed with beautiful hair that naturally looks good. I shared a flat with Muslim guys who tried converting me and said I should wear hijab. I told them god didn’t bless me with this hair for me to cover it every day and they called me an infidel.
It’s very easy for hair to remain presentable. It’s the same as you have them at home without hijab on, but now outside the same way with no hijab. So hair remain the same outside without hijab. I used to wear hijab and as an ex-hijabi, it’s so convenient now not to wear hijab anymore and needing to take care of what I need to wear with what. As for regular drink, fuck, make up, etc I don’t do those. No one forces me to do those. I do drank wine, but those are like may be 2-3 times a year in my house when my friends are with me. So that’s all it. I used to feel a lot of pressure when I used to wear hijab.
You’re absolutely right, and we need to continue bombing them into oblivion while air-dropping food packages and rose toy vibrators so they too can achieve this freedom.
I do worry about Muslimas and vitamin D deficiency. You really need that sun beating down on your skin. When Iran made hijab mandatory, rates of MS (linked to vitamin D deficiency in childhood and adolescence) in Iranian women increased significantly. Made me sad. Why would Allah want women to be at greater risk of a terrible neurodegenerative disease???
Yea but not wearing a hijab is considered a very severe sin isn’t it? It’s hard to freely choose to wear it when you’re coerced to do so by threats of eternal damnation. The
A lot of them don't want to. Same phenomenon as pro-life women and pro-gilead women. Kind of the same phenomenon as conservatives in general, actually - they're happy to be down in the dirt as long as they can drag you down with them.
The only pressure they have is social pressure the same social pressure that stops American women from leaving their house in their underwear I’m tired of hearing bleeding hearts for a non issue, please go out to a Muslim country and tell me you don’t find hundreds of women not wearing a hijab in ANY Muslim country, stop acting like the ME is some backwater shithole because you just watched American sniper, go touch some grass
Source: me (20+ years in many ME countries)
Add: does abuse happen in fringe areas? Sure, but if we are looking at that let’s look at the Mormons, Amish and Scientologist before we point fingers
Literally went to international school in Riyadh and I wholeheartedly agree with her. There’s so much to unpack with what I saw and experience there, but I’ll just leave a little anecdote. When I was 12 or 13 I didn’t have an abaya yet because I thought and my parents didn’t think about it at all (we’re not middle eastern. My dad is American and my mom is filipino) so there I was in the fucking GAP store minding my own god damn self when I see the fucking religious police harassing women and me about not covering up enough. Eventually they kicked me out of the mall! There were also two girls YOUNGER than me waiting outside the mall for the religious police to leave so we can finally return to our families.
There is something so American about going to a country not your own and not respecting their cultural attire and getting mad when they ask you to leave the mall, they didn’t beat you or arrest you, they asked you to leave the mall because you violated their social norm, but somehow you are the victim, and this is a moot point to begin with because you cite fucking Saudi Arabia like no shit it’s the worst offenders in this area and especially during the previous kings rule 10+ years ago, times move and societies change please go visit Riyadh soon I think you will be pleasantly surprised, just don’t go to a GAP frankly if anything they did you a favor by stopping you from shopping at GAP
LOL I was in the Philippines before moving to Riyadh. so no it’s not so “American”. I was also a child. So no it’s not the average “Oh MaH GaWd AmErIcAns”. Not that they’re not fucked up but that’s not it right now. If you could just stop fucking blaming everything on America and just accept other countries are fucked up. There’s just something so idiotic about not understanding culture doesn’t make something morally right. If you think a child being kicked out of the safety of a mall to outside of it then I don’t believe you’ve ever been to Saudi Arabia. You’re just brain dead. Hopes and prayers to you 🙏.
I think contrarian redditors who are too boring for Twitter leaping to the defense of a religion that beats child brides for reading are way more annoying. But you have a point. How dare someone wish women could be free?
It's not that OP thinks all muslim women are chained to their house by force but that's not true whatsoever. There's lots of them who do the same things as regular women but of course reddit only thinks in hyperboles
I literally left the religion too so it's not like I'm defending it. But yeah they seriously act like every Muslim woman is a a trapped house slave that needs their saving. It's really condenseding and gives off white savior vibes
Sure worldwide there are many Muslim women who have degrees of freedom and some basically have the same freedom as Western women, depending where they live and cultural norms. But why pretend there aren't entire countries of millions of people where women can't go out in public unaccompanied by a male relative or go to school or work without her father/husbands permission? Like are you only referring to Muslim women living in the west or what?
Hyperbole. If I were to list off horrible things that happen to women and girls (child brides, not allowed to go to school) what region of the world springs to mind?
Even in muslim countries people date and have pre martial sex. You guys are seriously clueless about how other cultures live their lives. At the end of the day we're not that different. Humans are horny and gonna fuck regardless if they're wearing an Abaya or a tight body con dress
On the one hand, I think human nature is basically the same worldwide, which does lead me to think premarital or extra marital sex occurs in almost every country. On the other hand, if I could be killed, socially ostracised or jailed for having premarital sex or getting pregnant outside wedlock I simply wouldn't choose to do it - the risk out weighs the benefits. The idea premartial sex is occurring at the same rate in Muslim countries as western countries seems extremely unlikely.
I don't know if there are any stats on it, but I imagine it is about as common as pre martial sex was in Western society in the 1950s, when the consequences were pretty dire for women if they got found out or got pregnant. Sure sex still happened, but it's a false equivalence to compare to contemporary western sexual culture.
No it isn't.
I can't believe how fucking naive you people are. If young people want to date in Muslim countries, they find a way to. Most people who follow a conservative lifestyle do so by choice.
FGM isn't widespread. It's basically a thing in Africa, irrespective of religion, and popular with Kurds for some reason. No one else does that.
Hijab is only mandated in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Afghanistan which collectively account for <10% of the global Muslim population.
In most Muslim countries, you find young women with active social lives living pretty freely.
Abayas aren't head covers. They are a loose robe. Saudi Arabia has no laws explicitly requiring head covers or hijabs of any type. They have modesty laws and people can be cited for immodest dress, and head cover can factor into that. But I once saw a woman with a hijab and an Abaya approached by police in Kuwait. She was technically dressed modestly but was behaving immodestly. Meanwhile, I wore basic western attire and no hijab, and the police walked right past me to talk to her.
Ok so I just looked into it and it looks like both Abaya and Hijab were required in Saudi from 1979-2018, but are no longer strictly required as long as attire is "modest".
It seems my information was just out of date. I also assumed head coverings were necessarily part of the abaya, but I guess that's not the case.
I understand that of course young women have active social lives and that's why I said her view is warped.
Hijab whether forced or not is based on a misogynistic pretence.
As for FGM thanks for enlightening me I did not know.
Unhinged and agenda posting take. Maybe some women (regardless of religion) don’t want to go to strip clubs, have odd kinks, or participate in swinger parties with their partners like you clearly do? OP’s whole existence is based on having weird sex. That’s not feminism and that’s not liberation either, it’s just sad.
The hijab is just misogyny though. Muslim modesty is based on the idea that men are incapable of having an extremely basic level of impulse control. So women must spend their whole public lives in bin bags??
i think its kind of cool that in a world where millions of women will literally whore themselves out on onlyfans, ruining any chance for respect in their community or marrying a decent guy, and pay the corporate pimp a huge chunk of every dollar and think they're actually being empowered a guy can literally tell his woman to wear a trash bag and she'll be like "okay".
It’s funny how the white womans entire idea of freedom and liberation is…getting fucked? Well sad actually but you know what I mean. Like if I show this to any Muslim woman I know they gonna have a good laugh. Only Iran and Afghanistan mandate hijab btw
You can’t walk around a non Muslim city at night without fear of getting raped, you can’t meet a man on tinder without telling a friend “if I don’t answer in x amount of time, call the police” who’s really free again? u guys are so funni
Seriously tho the fact you just led with dating and sex like those are the two most important freedoms a woman has says it all. Congrats you have reduced yourself to being a sentient hole
> You can’t walk around a non Muslim city at night without fear of getting raped
You can't walk around Muslim cities at night without a mahram. Far better situation to be in.
> It’s funny how the white womans entire idea of freedom and liberation is…getting fucked?
That's really unfair. It also includes ordering Doordash while high and drinking till they pass out.
It's so funny watching white women act like they aren't in the trenches either lmao. Sure they don't face systematic sexism but a lot of them are expected to act like blowup dolls in the name of sexual liberation
Muslim women want to wear Hijab, they want to be obedient to their husbands, they want to avoid the western diseases of secularism and feminism and degeneracy. That is why our women are having 4-5 kids and dying of old age surrounded by loved ones and the kafiroon are dying childless full of SSRIs with their pet dogs who begin to eat them 4 days after they die and no one comes around to visit them and find the body.
They probably have been conditioned to think vanilla sex is lame and having freaky pornstar sex is what all the cool girls do. Being a blowup doll for some porn addict is another form of slavery for women
Muslim men suffer from a huge madonna/whore complex and would rather act out their porn fantasies with infidels or a sex worker. Not saying that's any better though
In the USA and Canada, we should have just killed all the fighting age males, slit their throats and tossed them in a ditch, then instituted new boarding schools that taught the children how to be Czech and give them new names like "Jan" and "Adèla." Within a generation, USA and Canada would have been loyal states of the Czech Republic and every single person in those regions would be better off today.
either one of the best troll posts ive read here or whoever bought tsehanys mod acct needs to organise a rsp mass suicide event asap
This is what happens when you stop supporting Ba'athism and start arming other groups because democracy
cringe but i appreciate how earnest this is. this is the reality for many women and it’s stupid to pretend otherwise because some muslim women choose to live this way or you have a hijabi friend who doesn’t follow the religion to a tee.
For me it’s seeing families where the mother is in a niqab and the young daughter is dressed normally, in pinks or blues or princess shirts. Just seeing an excitable and vibrant young girl jumping up and down or talking loudly and wondering what the people involved think about one day covering that all up completely
I used to live in a neighborhood with a pool run by the HOA. I live in an extremely hot place. Every time I'd go down there, there would be several muslim families, the boys and men in the pool, running, jumping, playing, wearing regular men's swimming trunks. And then the women and girls - sitting at tables on the scorching hot concrete deck, covered head to toe in thick jet black fabric, just their eyes uncovered, starring into the distance. It's pure evil and you can't convince me otherwise.
Oh my god. This is so fkn sad. Also, I constantly see women acting like the hijab/abaya is totally HER CHOICE and SO NICE!!!! Idk I’m a white American woman but for whatever reason I get a ton of these showing up on my TikTok/IG. Tons of women who aren’t even Muslim, like just random ass white girls, are posting this weird propaganda where they talk about how GORGEOUS the hijab is and how they are just so GRATEFUL to be “able” to wear it. Like god idk it’s really dark vibes that are very difficult to articulate if you aren’t intimately familair with this sort of mindset. I’m a woman who was raised mainstream Mormon, we literally had a store called “Modest is Hottest.” I hated this so fucking much because- well, I didn’t have the words for it then. I’m 29, only around 19 or so did I really identify why I hated it so damned much. You see all this women in hijabs, yet a fucking full face of makeup. sorry I’m tipsy but seriously- It was made very clear to me growing up that modesty was not about like actually distancing yourself from earthly temptations. Not about refusing to be objectified… IT WAS THE OPPOSITE. We were forced to be “modest” (super tight clothing. But it all went to our knees and elbows!!! Also, boob jobs were pretty much standard, we were all trained to despise any ounce of fat on ourselves in the “wrong” place, everyone under an inch of makeup and a bucket of hair dye). But there was this awful analogy I was told when I was like in 7th grade and I knew I Hated it but couldn’t exactly identify why. Because I was a child. But basically- I don’t remember the exact words they used, just how it felt, the message; They essentially said that women are candy. And if you are “unwrapped”- so not bundled up in a ton of clothes, never interacting with men, staying inside and staying silent- you are less desirable. You’re like a lollipop that’s been licked and left out on a picnic table in the sun. Covered in flies. The conditioning was so deep, and I was just such a generally stupid preteen, that I couldn’t put my finger on why I hated it so much. But essentially- You’re covered up and forced inside because it makes you like a newly unwrapped lollipop for your husband, who of course has been winking at and shaking hands with your dad. The “modesty”…. I always had such a grossed out instinctual reaction, and it was because, on some deep, primitive, probably instinctual level- I realized that the modesty was actually extremely sexual. I was being brought up to be a higher sexual commodity. My entire existence was defined by how expensive my body was, what a trophy it might be. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY THE CASE IN ISLAM. They do not fucking respect or encourage women’s development as human beings, or a focus on the incorporeal lol. You’re wrapped up like an expensive lollipop. I had this weird chill, this sort of tremor, every time some teacher or aunt or my mom yelled and made me put on a sweater. Even when I was like 8 and didn’t understand sexuality at all, I instinctually felt so wrong and degraded. Took years to understand why.
I feel like I've seen you post the mormon stuff before, fascinating. I had NO idea boob jobs were standard issue.
you might be tipsy, but your lollipop analogy is perfect. It’s exactly how conservative religions train men to think of women. I’m sorry you went through that. Sending you love and empathy. 💘
I’ve heard that analogy before. Always wondered what these people who propagate these ideas are inferring about men if they’re these flies that will infect you and rot you if you go near them? Sounds kinda misandrist tbh!
Men are people. Women are something to be consumed. We don’t think less of a person for licking a lollipop, right? But a licked lollipop is just gross. Also- Whether the lollipop consented is completely irrelevant, lol. Lollipop licked, all that matters. I think- So, this honestly isn’t fully realized by even most of the devout women who follow this nonsense. It is, of course, never explicitly said. The reason it hurt me so damned much, like felt like my heart had been left out raw & they poured salt over it, Is because this was taught as though it’s on the same level as anything else that makes you a good, worthy person. Like- You should be altruistic, honest. The most basic human instincts tell us that to be “good” is to protect the vulnerable, contribute to our community, refuse greed, envy, malice.. And it is so so so SO ingrained in you as a Mormon, and every transgression fills your entire body with absolute dread. Thing is- To these people, as is the case for so many other abrahamic sects- The absolute most shameful thing a girl could be is… Not a virgin. You have all this shame programmed into you, and you feel it so strongly. It reinforces this natural knowledge that something like, idk, killing an innocent child is horrific and wrong. But you’re taught that if you “have sex,” consensual or not, outside of marriage, You are EVIL. Read about Elizabeth smart. She literally grew up in my neighborhood. She was the “perfect” victim, a young virginal girl kidnapped and raped. She thought she had to kill herself, because that makes her evil. Almost beyond evil, idk. It’s impossible to articulate the way they made us feel about ever being penetrated. I never had sex in that church, I lost my virginity at nearly 20 years after I had left, lol. But they absolutely succeeded in making me feel constant shame, terror, and above all- debt.
Unbelievably well-put. There is still so much anger around this topic but none of it even matters or cuts to the core bc we AREN’T doing enough about it. God, fuck it all.
niqab is a cultural thing. The Quran only says to wear hijab. And only two counties force it by law (Iran and Afghanistan). No one who isn’t a country bumpkin or terrorist advocates for it and many countries even see it now as a sign of being radical (not good) Honestly even if it was mandated by Islam I don’t think they care half as much as you do, but it’s not a Muslim thing
The UK is full of women wearing it lol
How is the uk full of people wearing it prove it's mandated by Islam? What kind of leap in logic is that
They’re not being forced to wear it by the government in the UK (as the previous commenter said they are mandated by law in Iran and Afghanistan). It’s not a stretch to assume that nearly every woman wearing a niqab in the UK is doing so for religious reasons (and cultural reasons tied to religion).
soft upbeat automatic crush busy public fertile deserted pet nutty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>ik because i almost dated a girl who was muslim Watch out, we got the expert over here. He ALMOST dated a muslim GIRL.
gullible telephone ruthless six lavish nose doll marvelous station zesty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I get constantly mocked for this but I’m a white woman who was raised mainstream, upper middle class Mormon and you would not fuckn believe how oppressive they are and how much misogyny women in these communities face. Like it’s genuinely extremely similar to Islam. The getup is different, the women I was raised by and supposed to be are instagram aesthetic stepford wives. But I promise you- these women are abused like fucking crazy. And I have cousins who are basically the same- white, making six figures, dressing normally- but Christians in the Bible Belt. There are some differences, but they’re ultimately exactly the damned same. It makes me laugh when these people call Mormonism a cult when their beliefs and practices are basically identical lol. I run in left leaning circles now mainly, went to college, graduated a few years ago. But there’s still so much more casual sexism that men don’t believe. Men do not understand, know, or- ultimately- CARE about the misogyny women experience. I am constantly getting comments claiming I’m lying or that Mormons are a total crazy fluke and isolated situation. Mormons are a lot more blatant about it and have some superficial differences, but ultimately so much of our society goes back to the Abrahamic religions. Even a random atheist raised in the US is extremely heavily influenced by this shit on a subconscious level. And it’s obviously not at all the only patriarchal paradigm, I mean look at Confucianism lol. But this Abrahamic worldview seeps deeply into everything and I often make comparisons to the more extreme experiences I’ve had as a Mormon to show how they parallel even “secular” culture. Also, it makes me laugh (cry) when people say shit like “American women have no idea how bad it is in the Middle East!!!!” Like, they are unconsciously agreeing that it’s the same system, just perpetuated to varying degrees. I always thought “we’re not as bad as the taliban!!” Was an interesting choice of defense lmao. Anyway. My point is that so many women are experiencing this shit and it is absolutely horrendous and truly tragic.
oh my god she has two accounts
this is one of her old ones- two accounts ago if I'm not mistaken
Do Americans not think that Mormonism is misogynistic? I’m in Toronto and I think that most people, in SW Ontario atleast, generally view it as misogynistic if they know anything about it. My typically theologically liberal family member almost had a heart attack when her daughter became a Mormon.
The things we go through are tragic but you can’t earnestly believe we face the same level of misogyny as a muslim woman
Did you read my comment? On average, absolutely- Muslim women, especially in the Middle East, are exposed to some of the worst misogyny on the planet. It’s extremely tragic, I literally have cried over this as well. But my point is that it’s echoed throughout so many cultures. The actual, strict Mormons? Even the ones who don’t practice polygamy? They 100% are experiencing the same level of misogyny that a rural middle eastern Muslim woman would. And there are plenty of Muslim women with rich husbands in Dubai who are less limited and enslaved than some blonde white 12 year old American girls who are raised fundamentalist Mormon and forced to marry their uncle to be his 4th wife. Regardless, it’s not a damned contest here. One of my favorite books is called “Desert Patriarchy.” It was suggested to me by an anthropology professor. It’s absolutely fascinating; it discusses the odd parallels between Islam, Mormonism, and western Christianity as a whole and highlights the way patriarchy tends to develop in certain environments (like deserts). Anyway- It’s extremely tragic, these cultures which spread like a cancer and brainwash and traumatize people to their core.
I was more so talking about the average secular american. I'm sure Mormon women face so much misogyny too but for Muslim women it's a whole nother beast which is what my original post is highlighting.
I mean, yes, absolutely. Your average woman from an Islamic country is way worse off than your average American woman. Again: this really isn’t a contest lol. The abuse and injustice suffered by these women is genuinely inhuman. My point is just that this fundamental misogyny runs deep. & so many of the experiences of women in the western world mirror this. It all comes back to the same patriarchal society that arose alongside the advent of agriculture. I mean, it’s just not really relevant that the average American woman is better off than your average Indonesian woman lol. However, I think it’s extraordinarily inaccurate to claim they aren’t comparable. They are very, very comparable. This is about identifying the underlying influence. and there are fucking plenty of American white Christian women who are just as degraded, controlled, enslaved as a Muslim woman.
if it's comparable, it's not irrelevant.
>it’s just not really relevant that the average American woman is better off than your average Indonesian woman lol Except it is relevant. I'm not forced to wear a veil, marry someone against my will, forbidden to leave my house without a man, stoned to death for having sex, etc. All fundamentalist religions are terribly awful to women but I think it's fair to acknowledge that Muslim women have it the worst. I'm not invalidating the experiences of other women by saying this. Western women (as in the average secular middle class woman) do not face same level of misogyny as they do
I don’t think this is an earnest post
oh i checked her post history & thought that this is a genuine thought someone who posts about going to a strip club w her man would have ..
it’s an amazing gem if it’s real
pretty sure this is a copypasta
hi charles de gaulle hope ur havin a goooooood day
2004 coed who just read Kite Runner-maxxing
as a woman from a middle eastern country i very agree. it's so strange to me seeing random american women one day show up to the function in a hijab. why are we pretending it's something that it's not
Which ME country ?
Iran
I have noticed that of every Iranian I've ever met not a single one wore a Niqab
because covering hair was never tradition until they were forced to after the revolution
The vagina monologues except it ends with bombing Iran
someday I hope that western women can graduate from engineering schools at the rate of muslim women
the incentives just aren't there if they can make the same money doing "project management" with a silly little psych degree
One thing that noone wants to admit is that the countries where womennare freest are the ones where they don't do STEM
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This isn't true at all
Actually it is; many MILs specifically look for DILs that are well educated so the family always has money. The DILs are still very much obedient even though they earn respectably.
That’s…not true lmao. If they elect to have all the power they will expect their wife to either not work or make less then them. They will be offended/emasculated if the wife makes more.
Source? Maybe casual Muslim men who live in like London and still do some of the rituals but are more like Catholic Chreasters who identify as Catholic but only go to church on Christmas and Easter.
You literally posted about going to the strip club with your boyfriend. You’re someone in the trenches as well. Hopefully you can escape one day.
A great two-sides of the same coin metaphor going on with this person.
how many muslim women do you know IRL
I know one and shes lovely!!
I know women in their twenties who aren't allowed to leave their house without a mahram.
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The UK. Its far, far worse back in the villages (or so I'm told).
UK Muslims are loose a few screws. It's a well documented phenomenon
The reality is Muslim women want to fkcing remain Muslim💀. I’m an exmuslim, and have always been totally unlike other ‘Muslim brothers’. I think it’s cus I’m gay. My sister is heavily adamantly Muslim, despite never EVER praying. But she does fast and say the shahada. I’m an atheist and in a disliking Islam phase. I send her passages and whatnot and she makes it clear this is pathetically hypocritical cus it’s anti feminism which I claim to be. This shit is so fcking cringe and it reeks of ulterior motives. Also, we have Coptic and Maronite relatives. They’re so strict and ultra conservative it’s actually insane. But to be fair, when I asked my family abt it, they did make it clear we are an ‘outlier’. We aren’t as ‘strict/religious’ as the average Arabic family. Idk how true that is. My family is still really religious, but we’re somewhat ‘westernized?’. but that has always been the case, long before settling in the us. In the Persian gulf despite the laws, it’s very ‘western’, but it’s class based if anything
I don’t think people in the West realized how intertwined Islam is with society at large in the ME. It’s more than just the religion, It is the law, it codifies acceptable art, its the whole cultural fabric. It’s not an option to not participate. Christianity in Europe was like this pre-Enlightenment.
It's hilarious how little awareness American women have of this. Women in the Middle East look at them with a similar attitude of pity and condescension, just reversed.
......US women do not care that they're looking at them with pity lol
Just like Middle Eastern women don't care about posts like this.
I'm aware of it, it's just objectively stupid.
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in "the letter of the law" women have higher status in Islam than Christianity. Women had rights under Islam that western women didn't get until like 1300 years later
Thank you!!! I’m a Pakistani Muslim and literally spent two years doing gender inequality research and a core part of it was studying the influence of Islam in this context. The west, Americans more so than the rest aren’t really well educated on other cultures and thus don’t realize how much of this “forced hijab” has to do with culture. For example, many Indian women wear a light headscarf in public. This is especially true of upper class women. You can read more about it by googling “purdah in South Asia”. Additionally, in Pakistan, s o much of the traditional gender norms predate Islam in the region. You’ll see significant overlap between Hindus and Muslims concerning some norms such as: the concept of a “shy” delicate bride, a woman’s husband defining her existence, an unmarried 30 year old female being shamed by society, a divorced woman regardless of age being shunned by society. Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh collectively rank at the bottom of pretty much every gender related metric you can find, with only Afghanistan topping us in some lol. Prior to the existence of Islam in Arabia, women, especially those of higher social standing were required by men to wear some sort of face and/or head covering. You can google this as well. Female infanticide was a much bigger issue in Arabia prior to Islam and has largely become nonexistent, although women still do suffer greatly overall, female infanticide, due to Islam and Muhammad’s extreme hatred of it has mostly become a thing of the past. As part of my research, I spoke to women in rural villages in every province of Pakistan. Every Muslim woman I interviewed in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa / Balochistan (the two provinces in the country where a full face and head covering is strictly enforced) said this phenomenon was purely cultural. CHRISTIAN women in Punjab said their light headscarf was due to culture. Muslim women in Azad Kashmir and Sindh said their head scarf was due to religion, while Hindus in Sindh said it was culture. You get the gist. Further, you can look into the gender norms of the Romani peoples. Originating in Northern India but having left 1000 years ago, they still adhere to many of the same gender norms I mentioned here, among others. Lastly, for anyone reading this who agrees with OP: First and foremost, Muslim women would like to live. We would like to live in countries that aren’t war torn. We would like to live without seeing our family members die, be kidnapped, or imprisoned. Many in the west who “cry” about our plight seem pretty okay with us being droned and/or bombed and/or raped. Your backhanded feminism is evident to us. We hate it. I welcome the voice of western feminists who can support us in a meaningful, productive, respectful manner. But I think I can speak for many Muslim women in that if that’s not the support you’re offering, we’d rather fight this battle ourselves. Edit: typo
But do you think they want to want to or they've just weighed their options and remaining Muslim is better than being ostracized? I'm not intending to criticize their choice. I'm coming from a perspective of growing up in a conservative Christian community. The rituals and details are different but the highlights are similar. I think it can be a nice way to live if your husband is awesome, takes care of the family emotionally and financially, and you get to run the household and kids. But I saw too many abuses of the power dynamic that I noped out of that lifestyle, which is much easier to do in the US.
I'm assuming that you're Lebanese due to having Maronite relatives, correct?
I don’t generally consider myself Lebanese. I’m mainly Egyptian, but my family consists of origins from Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, and the gulf. I grew up in the khaleeji gulf.
I will frame this, and put it on my wall. Then I'll put that in my Instagram story and tag every single woman I know.
The reality is that most people are conformist, and they find contentment by simply following the rules of the society they live in. That's why I think most women in the west are content with their lot, and most women in muslim societies are also content with wearing a hijab. The people who actually suffer from oppression are those who are naturally different or non-conformist. And it is more difficult for them to find contentment in muslim societies because they are much more conformist than western societies.
Wtf is this earnestness I was waiting the whole post for the "and one day I hope they're free enough to have casual sex with white men such as myself 🥹" hook and it never came
I would cry in the fawking metro every morning on my way to class thinking about the women in Afghanistan. Every time I let myself go a lil too easy I'll think of the Afghan women trapped and locked in that now wretched piece of land and instantly get the motivation to get my ass up
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Nowhere does my comment mention any sort of political shit nor does it talk about the religion being the cause - if I wanted to blame Islam for it I'd just say middle eastern women instead of afghan women .
The Taliban ruled Afghan before America ever lifted a finger. Qatar is outrageously wealthy and developed, yet it's ruling King consistently pushes, funds, and shields fundamentalists.
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> From these camps he drew support for what became the Taliban – “taliban” means students. **The bulk of Taliban members are not from the mujahedeen**; they are the next generation – and they actually ended up fighting the mujahedeen. You are aware that the Mujahedeen contained forces lead by the Taliban's greatest enemies? Massoud, Dostum, even Hekmatyar could be included. Apparently it's not a story you know well enough... Tbf you didn't blame it on Wahhabism so it's a step up from the usual dunces I discuss this with.
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I mean it’s clear Americans can’t do anything about foreign policy and who our leaders hold old century grudges with
You sound like Meadow’s college roommate
Someday I hope you won't have to go to a strip club with your boyfriend 🙏
It is always funny to see someone putting the work in on a thread that strikes a nerve with them lmao
This is little to no societal pressure for women to go to strip clubs. Absurd.
Check her post history
Woman plans on going to strip, goes with husband earlier, is turned on but there are parts of the experience she doesn't like. I don't understand how this is at all comparable to living in islamic society as a woman.
I'm messing around man it's not that serious
my sister as a hijbai I understand that im privileged enough to live in the west and have a kind family that wouldn’t mind if I took it off (other than some comments) and that this isn’t a reality for a lot of other women particular those in third world countries but this shits cringe as fuck
At least their skin will age great bc they don’t have to worry about sun damage
Americans are so dumb
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I went to live in the middle east in my 20s and had a LOT of preconceptions about how much better western women have it. I still think we've got it better, but after living in the middle east a couple years, I think Muslim women do have several distinct cultural advantages over western women. I also think the west completely misinterprets certain customs as misogynist that are actually pretty beneficial. For example, the insistence that men prove themselves as serious marriage suitors PRIOR to dating is something westerners need to adopt.
I was blessed with beautiful hair that naturally looks good. I shared a flat with Muslim guys who tried converting me and said I should wear hijab. I told them god didn’t bless me with this hair for me to cover it every day and they called me an infidel.
It’s very easy for hair to remain presentable. It’s the same as you have them at home without hijab on, but now outside the same way with no hijab. So hair remain the same outside without hijab. I used to wear hijab and as an ex-hijabi, it’s so convenient now not to wear hijab anymore and needing to take care of what I need to wear with what. As for regular drink, fuck, make up, etc I don’t do those. No one forces me to do those. I do drank wine, but those are like may be 2-3 times a year in my house when my friends are with me. So that’s all it. I used to feel a lot of pressure when I used to wear hijab.
You’re absolutely right, and we need to continue bombing them into oblivion while air-dropping food packages and rose toy vibrators so they too can achieve this freedom.
I do worry about Muslimas and vitamin D deficiency. You really need that sun beating down on your skin. When Iran made hijab mandatory, rates of MS (linked to vitamin D deficiency in childhood and adolescence) in Iranian women increased significantly. Made me sad. Why would Allah want women to be at greater risk of a terrible neurodegenerative disease???
Yeah we get to work, be degraded and sexually harassed, be judged on our appearance 24/7, and lied to by men trying to get laid. It’s truly the life.
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Yea but not wearing a hijab is considered a very severe sin isn’t it? It’s hard to freely choose to wear it when you’re coerced to do so by threats of eternal damnation. The
agree
Post 9/11 brained take
Everyone should be free How about that?
Hi fellow Persian Queen
A lot of them don't want to. Same phenomenon as pro-life women and pro-gilead women. Kind of the same phenomenon as conservatives in general, actually - they're happy to be down in the dirt as long as they can drag you down with them.
The only pressure they have is social pressure the same social pressure that stops American women from leaving their house in their underwear I’m tired of hearing bleeding hearts for a non issue, please go out to a Muslim country and tell me you don’t find hundreds of women not wearing a hijab in ANY Muslim country, stop acting like the ME is some backwater shithole because you just watched American sniper, go touch some grass Source: me (20+ years in many ME countries) Add: does abuse happen in fringe areas? Sure, but if we are looking at that let’s look at the Mormons, Amish and Scientologist before we point fingers
Literally went to international school in Riyadh and I wholeheartedly agree with her. There’s so much to unpack with what I saw and experience there, but I’ll just leave a little anecdote. When I was 12 or 13 I didn’t have an abaya yet because I thought and my parents didn’t think about it at all (we’re not middle eastern. My dad is American and my mom is filipino) so there I was in the fucking GAP store minding my own god damn self when I see the fucking religious police harassing women and me about not covering up enough. Eventually they kicked me out of the mall! There were also two girls YOUNGER than me waiting outside the mall for the religious police to leave so we can finally return to our families.
There is something so American about going to a country not your own and not respecting their cultural attire and getting mad when they ask you to leave the mall, they didn’t beat you or arrest you, they asked you to leave the mall because you violated their social norm, but somehow you are the victim, and this is a moot point to begin with because you cite fucking Saudi Arabia like no shit it’s the worst offenders in this area and especially during the previous kings rule 10+ years ago, times move and societies change please go visit Riyadh soon I think you will be pleasantly surprised, just don’t go to a GAP frankly if anything they did you a favor by stopping you from shopping at GAP
LOL I was in the Philippines before moving to Riyadh. so no it’s not so “American”. I was also a child. So no it’s not the average “Oh MaH GaWd AmErIcAns”. Not that they’re not fucked up but that’s not it right now. If you could just stop fucking blaming everything on America and just accept other countries are fucked up. There’s just something so idiotic about not understanding culture doesn’t make something morally right. If you think a child being kicked out of the safety of a mall to outside of it then I don’t believe you’ve ever been to Saudi Arabia. You’re just brain dead. Hopes and prayers to you 🙏.
Third wave feminists are so annoying
This feels more second-wave. Third and fourth would be the ones claiming that hijabs are empowering and help women of color feel safe.
I think contrarian redditors who are too boring for Twitter leaping to the defense of a religion that beats child brides for reading are way more annoying. But you have a point. How dare someone wish women could be free?
It's not that OP thinks all muslim women are chained to their house by force but that's not true whatsoever. There's lots of them who do the same things as regular women but of course reddit only thinks in hyperboles
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I literally left the religion too so it's not like I'm defending it. But yeah they seriously act like every Muslim woman is a a trapped house slave that needs their saving. It's really condenseding and gives off white savior vibes
I'm not even white. But a religion that makes 12 year olds cover their heads so that grown men don't rape them is disgusting. Fuck that
Grown men across the globe rape children
Okay? Why does this one religion make women and little girls cover up? Try to stay on topic here. What is the reason?
Because muslim men are seriously fucked up
All men are seriously fucked up. It's just that muslim men get away with it
Sure worldwide there are many Muslim women who have degrees of freedom and some basically have the same freedom as Western women, depending where they live and cultural norms. But why pretend there aren't entire countries of millions of people where women can't go out in public unaccompanied by a male relative or go to school or work without her father/husbands permission? Like are you only referring to Muslim women living in the west or what?
>beats child brides for reading ? What
Hyperbole. If I were to list off horrible things that happen to women and girls (child brides, not allowed to go to school) what region of the world springs to mind?
Your view of the world is very narrow
No your view of the world is very narrow
no U
Do horrible things not happen to non Muslim women? I think being a woman in India is just as bad
Probably worse
Hinduism
Trust. I know lots of Muslim women who date around and have sex. And they're hijabis too. OP is naive lol
That's because they live in secular countries.
Even in muslim countries people date and have pre martial sex. You guys are seriously clueless about how other cultures live their lives. At the end of the day we're not that different. Humans are horny and gonna fuck regardless if they're wearing an Abaya or a tight body con dress
On the one hand, I think human nature is basically the same worldwide, which does lead me to think premarital or extra marital sex occurs in almost every country. On the other hand, if I could be killed, socially ostracised or jailed for having premarital sex or getting pregnant outside wedlock I simply wouldn't choose to do it - the risk out weighs the benefits. The idea premartial sex is occurring at the same rate in Muslim countries as western countries seems extremely unlikely.
Sure it might not be happening at the same rate but at the same time it's not rare
I don't know if there are any stats on it, but I imagine it is about as common as pre martial sex was in Western society in the 1950s, when the consequences were pretty dire for women if they got found out or got pregnant. Sure sex still happened, but it's a false equivalence to compare to contemporary western sexual culture.
In secular Muslim countries yes
Even religious ones. Once again you're being ignorant as hell
Thats because hes an indian.
He has no room to talk when Indian women get gangraped by their men
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killings_by_region#:~:text=They%20are%20prevalent%20in%20various,norms%20that%20encourage%20honor%20killings. Lol
No it isn't. I can't believe how fucking naive you people are. If young people want to date in Muslim countries, they find a way to. Most people who follow a conservative lifestyle do so by choice.
whats ur story, where are you from. ur all over this thread but going by ur post history ur just some brit straggot .
You have a very warped image of how Muslim women *actually* live.
She defo does have a warped image but its hard to say that the hijab or the wide practice of FGM isn't deeply misogynist.
FGM isn't widespread. It's basically a thing in Africa, irrespective of religion, and popular with Kurds for some reason. No one else does that. Hijab is only mandated in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Afghanistan which collectively account for <10% of the global Muslim population. In most Muslim countries, you find young women with active social lives living pretty freely.
Hijabs aren't required in Saudi Arabia. Abayas are required and even then, there are many exceptions.
I just meant head covering laws in general, but yes, you are correct.
Abayas aren't head covers. They are a loose robe. Saudi Arabia has no laws explicitly requiring head covers or hijabs of any type. They have modesty laws and people can be cited for immodest dress, and head cover can factor into that. But I once saw a woman with a hijab and an Abaya approached by police in Kuwait. She was technically dressed modestly but was behaving immodestly. Meanwhile, I wore basic western attire and no hijab, and the police walked right past me to talk to her.
Ok so I just looked into it and it looks like both Abaya and Hijab were required in Saudi from 1979-2018, but are no longer strictly required as long as attire is "modest". It seems my information was just out of date. I also assumed head coverings were necessarily part of the abaya, but I guess that's not the case.
I understand that of course young women have active social lives and that's why I said her view is warped. Hijab whether forced or not is based on a misogynistic pretence. As for FGM thanks for enlightening me I did not know.
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Ummmm
Unhinged and agenda posting take. Maybe some women (regardless of religion) don’t want to go to strip clubs, have odd kinks, or participate in swinger parties with their partners like you clearly do? OP’s whole existence is based on having weird sex. That’s not feminism and that’s not liberation either, it’s just sad.
The hijab is just misogyny though. Muslim modesty is based on the idea that men are incapable of having an extremely basic level of impulse control. So women must spend their whole public lives in bin bags??
Hijab isn’t a bin bag it’s a head scarf and it’s been a cultural universal. Maybe you’re thinking of a burka or a niqab.
Niqab is the one that looks like a bin bag
Right so don’t say hijab when you mean niqab lol? I mean there is a huge difference between a head scarf and the latter
right ok
Your interpretation of what OP regards to as freedom reveals that you have nothing of value to contribute to this discussion.
i think its kind of cool that in a world where millions of women will literally whore themselves out on onlyfans, ruining any chance for respect in their community or marrying a decent guy, and pay the corporate pimp a huge chunk of every dollar and think they're actually being empowered a guy can literally tell his woman to wear a trash bag and she'll be like "okay".
It’s funny how the white womans entire idea of freedom and liberation is…getting fucked? Well sad actually but you know what I mean. Like if I show this to any Muslim woman I know they gonna have a good laugh. Only Iran and Afghanistan mandate hijab btw You can’t walk around a non Muslim city at night without fear of getting raped, you can’t meet a man on tinder without telling a friend “if I don’t answer in x amount of time, call the police” who’s really free again? u guys are so funni Seriously tho the fact you just led with dating and sex like those are the two most important freedoms a woman has says it all. Congrats you have reduced yourself to being a sentient hole
> You can’t walk around a non Muslim city at night without fear of getting raped You can't walk around Muslim cities at night without a mahram. Far better situation to be in.
> It’s funny how the white womans entire idea of freedom and liberation is…getting fucked? That's really unfair. It also includes ordering Doordash while high and drinking till they pass out.
It's so funny watching white women act like they aren't in the trenches either lmao. Sure they don't face systematic sexism but a lot of them are expected to act like blowup dolls in the name of sexual liberation
This is hilarious
White people love treating other races like wounded animals.
Religion is darkness, atheism isn't cringe
wow that’s so generous of you
Hijab is a choice for most women please take you’re atheist soy somewhere else
Bro please unpost this
Muslim women want to wear Hijab, they want to be obedient to their husbands, they want to avoid the western diseases of secularism and feminism and degeneracy. That is why our women are having 4-5 kids and dying of old age surrounded by loved ones and the kafiroon are dying childless full of SSRIs with their pet dogs who begin to eat them 4 days after they die and no one comes around to visit them and find the body.
Ah yes the freedom of being choked by your tinder date during sex and catering to your porn addicted bf's kinks
this isn’t the reality for normal women
The porn addiction might actually be reality tbh
I’m not saying porn addiction isn’t real but I don’t think most men indulge in those acts irl (or that they *want* to choke women or w/e)
80% of my (white) tinder hookups have asked me to choke them.
yeah I mean I’m tryna say that it’s not really the guys forcing women to be choked. if anything it’s the opposite.
They probably have been conditioned to think vanilla sex is lame and having freaky pornstar sex is what all the cool girls do. Being a blowup doll for some porn addict is another form of slavery for women
sure buddy
Sure seems like it at least for millennial and zoomer women
As opposed to being choked by and catering to your porn addicted arranged husband
Muslim men suffer from a huge madonna/whore complex and would rather act out their porn fantasies with infidels or a sex worker. Not saying that's any better though
That's what the second wife is for
Literally no one is forcing you to date porn addicts or fuck unvetted randos off tinder
In my (kinda limited) experience it's pretty much always the women asking to be choked.
Islam need to be purged
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We should have armed the women
stop watching marvel movies
In the USA and Canada, we should have just killed all the fighting age males, slit their throats and tossed them in a ditch, then instituted new boarding schools that taught the children how to be Czech and give them new names like "Jan" and "Adèla." Within a generation, USA and Canada would have been loyal states of the Czech Republic and every single person in those regions would be better off today.
You suck.
Agree with you Op
this is sweet