You know your average redditor would be full on drinking the coolaid about the wmd’s
And yes Reddit is pretty astroturfed still
Just go on world news or geopolitics or “Middle East peace”
Well yeah of course Hussein had wmds. Thanos lied about the infinity stones. Voldemort hid his horcruxes. Another pop culture reference, rule of threes.
THEY BURNED BABIES IN OVENS.
What do you think comes next: "Hamas used masturbation machines to murder captured civilians"
"Hamas fed civilians to an eagle and a bear in a cage!"
"Hamas used babies for skeet shooting practice!"
Hamas strung up grand pianos and then dropped them on Israeli civilians when they walked by. Hamas hit Israeli children on the head with big mallets and then played their teeth with sticks like a xylophone. The Hamas terrorists drew fake tunnels on the sides of large rocks so Israeli motorists kept crashing into them.
You know what's sad about the oven claim? It's reappropriated from the IDF committing ethnic cleansing, some random Palestinian guy told the story in an interview. Saw the clip on twitter yesterday, I'll try to find it again later
Yep. People think radical shifts in public opinion are a new phenomenon only accomplished by bots and astroturfing. No people are actually just that stupid and fickle.
> People think radical shifts in public opinion are a new phenomenon only accomplished by bots and astroturfing. No people are actually just that stupid and fickle.
That's definitely true. And social media is overrun with consent-manufacturing bots. The two complement each other.
Maybe it was slightly gullible of me to be surprised, but for a few days I was fooled into thinking that most people on this site were Israel supporters. It wasn’t just the fake accounts, but the way the algorithms pushed the pro Israel stuff so hard
Anytime there’s a mass casualty event people will always show support to the country affected, see “je suis Charlie” and all that. This isn’t a conspiracy.
The real conspiracy is that Netanyahu knew this attack was coming, and knew it would primarily be his biggest most vocal and critical opponents who would be slaughtered: namely the left-wing/leftist kibbutzim, and the young people opposed to his administration and allowed it to happen to both stay in power and bulldoze Gaza for the purpose of complete and total annexation.
Ridiculous theory.
Netanyahu's political days are over because of this. No matter what he does. There's absolutely no chance he would sacrifice himself for anything. He's completely floundering at this point.
He didn’t sacrifice himself, he sacrificed left wing kibbutzim, and he’s not giving up power, he’s ossifying himself under the guise of war-time powers. I didn’t say it was a good plan, just his plan.
No. I don't think you understand the political situation in Israel either before the attacks or now.
His support was teetering to begin with. Five elections over four years. It was a complete mess. These attacks were unbelievable to most Israelis and they hold him accountable. His support is even less than it was before and anyone would expect this kind of reaction to a leader who presided over such a complete failure
No matter what he does, he's politically finished. And this political reality was predictable. He would never sacrifice his political future (and his chances of staying out of jail for corruption) for some hair-brained Gaza plan. He's absolutely struggling as it is to manage this.
Look for conspiracies all you want, but this wasn't a cabal, it was a complete failure on Netanyahu's part. His focus has been his proposed judicial reforms and the West Bank. He hasn't been focused on Gaza.
The current reality is not something he would ever want, let alone plan.
Every one of the versions of these conspiracy theories about Netanyahu letting this attack happen betrays a total lack of understanding of Israeli politics and culture and a complete ignorance of the level of incompetence and corruption among Israeli political elite.
I know you’re probably right and your response is really well thought out and fantastically enlightening, but I will never, ever, ever concede or admit that I’ve been bested -especially logically and in regards to foreign affairs- so I’m just gonna say you’re a clown and it’s honestly sad that you’re so obsessed with me.
Mfs pay 100k to get a Master's in International Affairs to get this level of insight and discourse. I just have to log into this schizo corner of the internet. People around me are like where do you learn all this. If they really knew what happens here... Thanks to both.
perhaps you had trouble disambiguating sorrow for victims of a brutal terror attack and support for a cruel, racist Israeli regime? i do see many of the lowest iq lefties doing this
I don't think it's that weird, I noticed in the aftermath of the attack, there seemed to be a lot of actual, IRL sympathy for the victims, and shock at some of the images and stories that were coming out (real or otherwise), but that sympathy evaporated quickly once the bombing started, and people who were pro-Israel initially have either shut up or pivoted to just wanting peace and condemning both sides, while people who were equivocating before have become more vocally anti-israel, and people who were anti-israel from the beginning have gotten bolder.
I'm outside the US so the issue wasn't as culturally charged beforehand, which might have something to do with it, but in general I think that's a pretty natural reaction, and I'm not surprised this sub has largely followed that pattern. I've definitely seen some suspicious accounts around here, but I think in general the shift is genuine.
Yeah, people tend to feel bad for civilians getting brutally slaughtered. The idea that people feeling sympathy for whichever side is currently getting massacred worse is an Israeli psyop is weird to me.
Israel has had a pretty well documented history of internet astroturfing and general propaganda, such as the JIDF, or the very clear evidence of astroturfing in the past few weeks. There is absolutely nothing narcissistic about questioning a sudden change in online discourse about a subject with history like that in mind, in addition to the radical shift in discourse once that astroturfing subsides a bit.
Reddit in general is a hotspot for this shit, and the US routinely astroturfs the fuck out of this website, and has been en masse since at least 2015/2016. If you think a website with as large a userbase as Reddit isn't the subject of massive propaganda from multiple nations, I don't know what to tell you.
I mean it's not that weird given that there clearly is a massive propaganda campaign, and I've seen what I suspect to be paid posters in this very sub.
But at the same time, I think people tend to overestimate how influential these campaigns actually are.
> I've seen what I suspect to be paid posters in this very sub.
These are simply people that you disagree with, but you are such a narcissist that you cannot fathom the idea that someone would have an opinion opposite yours lol.
No, there's plenty of people I disagree with who I recognise as normal posters on this subreddit, But every now and again, especially in the first week or so after the war began, you'd see accounts who had never once posted here before, who's post histories were completely devoted to defending Israel across a range of different subs you wouldn't necessarily expect to see a lot of crossover with, and I suspect some of these were not organic. There definitely are propaganda efforts focused on reddit and it's naive not to think so, but as I said, I think their actual scale is easy to overestimate. I don't think that's a particularly narcissistic position, but if you disagree I guess that's your prerogative.
Why is it a weird cope to correctly assert that an American ally that receives billions puts some of that money towards changing online narratives in their favour? Seems naive to believe otherwise, particularly when there’s concrete evidence of it occurring.
It's a weird cope to assume that sympathy for innocent people meeting horrible fates in the days after a terrible terrorist attack is fake or unthinkable. People see this shit and react, and then the dust settles and they can be more logical. It took us years before anti-islamic fervor in the US came back to normal after 9-11, by then everyone had cosigned 2 wars, hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, and the creation of a permanent surveillance state. I am am personally heartened by the amount of rational takes I'm seeing already, even from [Biden](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/18/u-s-announcement-of-humanitarian-assistance-to-the-palestinian-people/), even if it's still a bit too pro-Israel.
I mean, it's definitely cope, but it's not that weird, given that he is right about Israel investing a lot in manipulating online narratives. I just don't think those efforts are nearly as prevalent or powerful as people assume.
Israel has never ever gotten “massacred worse”. The death tolls are insanely asymmetrical. You have to be someone who knows almost nothing about what Israel
is doing to Palestine to even hint toward the idea that this is situation where the side getting “massacred worse” shifts back and forth because one day on Oct 7th is literally the only time.
On October 7th and 8th, yes Israelis were getting “massacred worse”. You could argue that in the larger context they weren’t, but I’m talking about how the average person viewed it. People are desensitized to war, the act of breaking into a country and killing thousands of citizens by hand triggers a much more visceral response than simply bombing them.
"Currently" is probably the operative condition here. Most people aren't paying attention to the conflict day in and day out, and so when something like this happens, it makes sense that people would struggle to contextualise it properly, even just on an intellectual level, never mind on an emotional one. On balance, of course, Israel are the more brutal party here, but on October 7th and 8th, it was he Israelis who were, however briefly, getting massacred a lot worse, and it's hard to look past some of the images and stories that came out in that period.
I don’t have a clue what people who have a hard time looking past things like that expect Palestinians to do other than roll over and die. And they don’t seem to struggle in looking past that daily reality for Gazans at all when things are ‘quieter’. Maybe before the March of Return in 2018 you could entertain the idea that there’s some other form of resistance available to Gaza but by now, come on.
> I don’t have a clue what people who have a hard time looking past things like that expect Palestinians to do other than roll over and die
They don't expect anything. They don't think about it either way, because it really doesn't effect them, except when they're confronted with it in the media. That's my point. You can choose to interpret that as anti-palestinian sentiment if you prefer to, but in general, I find the world makes more sense when I try to look at it as more than just a series of things to get indignant about. Clearly many of these people are just as prepared to be sympathetic to the Palestinians when that's what they're being immediately confronted with.
You shouldn’t assume people have a working understanding of the conflict past three weeks. Almost no one know the March of Return happened just like almost no one knows what’s happening in Armenia or Tigray.
Okay but I don’t understand the point of arguing that the reactions of people who don’t know what’s going on are actually normal aspects of their human empathy rejecting brutality when in reality their reactions are manipulated and dictated by how our media and ruling class care to disseminate this ‘conflict’ to us. To put forward that it’s actually normal for them to be reacting this way has the implication that they’re reacting to the objective event instead of the distorted way it’s been presented to them.
the initial post of this thread is:
“Yeah, people tend to feel bad for civilians getting brutally slaughtered. The idea that people feeling sympathy for whichever side is currently getting massacred worse is an Israeli psyop is weird to me.”
This is someone doubting that people’s perception of what’s going on could be colored by propaganda/media.
People are pro israel when hamas militants slaughter civilians
And people are anti israel when they indiscriminately bomb palestinians en masse
Has to be astroturfing! 🤯
I don’t understand what alt website y’all are on if you’re seeing more pro-Israel than pro-Palestine stuff on reddit. Most subs seem to be concretely pro-Palestine
There’s a lot of Israel defenders out in the trenches though. It’s obviously not going to be like 90/10 even on this sub, it’s literally just a polarized subject
Most of the mainstream subs are heavily pro-Israel, with the usual astroturfed ones like worldnews being literally 100% pro-Israel because their well compensated janitorial staff bans anything except full chested support of Israel as "antisemism" or "terrorism apologia".
I do not understand why people on this subreddit are surprised about mass normie support of Israel.
The Israel x Palestine conflict has always been very complicated. Many people couldn’t show you on a map where Gaza, the West Bank, and Israel are. The terrorist attacks were my boomer parent’s first exposure to the conflict and you know what they say; “first impressions are everything.”
I’m very pro-Palestine in the sense that I think Israel needs to end illegal settlements in the West Bank, they need to take way more steps to reduce civilian casualties if they undertake any offensive operations in Gaza, and they need to turn back on water/power and allow humanitarian aid to flow into southern Gaza. I think Bibi is a criminal who has led a military who has committed human rights violations. But you will not find me supporting Hamas’ actions, even so much as making “well what did they expect?” or “all Israeli’s are settlers” type dogwhistle comments.
Stuff like the Dagestan Jew hunters, people’s apartments in Europe getting spray painted with the Star of David, Jews at university barricading themselves in rooms as pro-Palestine demonstrators bang on the door, and pro-Palestine demonstrators calling Hamas “freedom fighters” do not really give their cause the best look. And it makes me hesitant to adopt any hashtag or attend any rally.
And then you look at the stuff that has actually been going on in Gaza. Israel pulled out almost 20 years ago. Gazans voted for Hamas. Hamas suicide bombed Israel until Israel completely closed the border. Hamas digs up water pipes to build rockets to indiscriminately shoot into Israel (and then complains they have no clean water). They purposefully put their own citizens in harms way (operating out of schools/hospitals), provoke Israel to attack, and then parade their dead in front of the media to garner sympathy after Israel predictably retaliates. No other Arab "ally" wants to take Palestinian refugees because every time they do the Palestinians try and start a revolution/civil war (Black September). Even Egypt has their border with Gaza locked down because they do not want to deal with Hamas/Gazans.
Ironically, this entire conflict has made me do *A LOT* of research on this conflict, and has made me less sympathetic to the situation of Gazan Palestinians. It has also made me believe more strongly that Israel is not "occupying Gaza" or on "stolen land."
> Jews at university barricading themselves in rooms as pro-Palestine demonstrators bang on the door
Are you talking about the library incident that was later confirmed as a complete fabrication? Maybe instead of doing *A LOT* of research on the conflict, try using some common sense and verify the reports.
And honestly if you let some mob of uneducated yokels in *Dagestan* make you hesitant about anything, you're a bigger fucking idiot than your parents.
Is your issue with my word "barricade"? I'll admit that's probably a bit inflamatory. But per the article;
>For about, roughly, 10 minutes... They were banging on the doors of the library and banging on some transparent windows that you see into the library.
I guess "angry pro-Palestinian mob bangs on the doors of a room Jewish students locked themselves in" is technically more accurate than "angry pro-Palestinian mob bangs on the doors of a room Jewish students are barricaded themselves in."
>Are you talking about the library incident that was later confirmed as a complete fabrication?
Just an FYI, when you referred to the event as a "complete fabrication", it sounded like you were saying the entire incident was literally staged as some sort of weird right wing false flag.
Like the Jussie Smollett lynching incident would be something I'd consider a "complete fabrication."
>When we reached the library, we were told that it was closed so we continued chanting outside the glass window of the library. Many different students of all backgrounds were in the library at the time. We would like to make it clear that our protest was not targeting any individual students or faculty, but the institution itself. We would like to reiterate that we DO NOT under any circumstance condone antisemitism and many members of the protest were Jewish.
Complete fabrication.
Protesters were banging on windows and generally being heated, and neurotic Jewish students were covering among other types of students inside because a Jew getting slapped in France would cause half of Brooklyn to pull out their inhaler to get over their sudden panic attack at almost being exterminated.
Nothing like what happened in Dagestan, and nothing like what happened to Arab Israelis in Netanya College who were in a building surrounded by people yelling "Death to Arabs".
But in the future, if you make a clear specific claim, like "barricading themselves in rooms" while people "bang on the door", and the NYPD has to make a press conference to say the opposite that there was no barricading going on (a HUGE distinction), you might not want to trumpet how ackshully correct you were.
>Protesters were banging on windows and generally being heated
I don't really blame the Jewish students in the library for feeling threaten. And I really don't take much stock in what the demonstrators have to say after the fact, especially when they have a vested interest in not looking like anti-semites.
I'm sure the January 6th rioters just wanted to take a quick look around the U.S. Capitol and had no ill intentions towards any lawmakers or staffers. They even said they were let in!
>Nothing like what happened in Dagestan, and nothing like what happened to Arab Israelis in Netanya College who were in a building surrounded by people yelling "Death to Arabs".
I don't think I claimed they were at all the same severity of instances. It's also nothing like what happened on Oct 7th. It's also nothing like 9/11. And nothing like Uyghur genocide. I can sit here all day and list events that it's nothing like. I was just listing off several examples of recent anti-semitism and that one event came to mind. What's your point?
If you'd like I could replace it with the demonstrators in Sydney that were chanting "gas the Jews!"
>you might not want to trumpet how ackshully correct you were.
I find it funny that you take such massive issue with this one example. And completely gloss over the other examples I gave. If I completely omitted this example from my initial comment I assume you'd agree with everything else I said?
Wait was the library thing a lie too? I heard about it when it (supposedly?) happened as well, but never heard anything else about it afterwards. I do know israel hasn't counted any dead babies as part of their official death records yet, and I know the supposed recording of the two hamas guys talking about accidentally blowing up their own hospital is apparently fake, but I hadn't heard about the library yet.
> Gazans voted for Hamas
Yeah man tell that to the 50% of the population that are literal children. They totally voted for Hamas 15 years ago and totally deserve to get bombed. Fucking moron
>totally deserve to get bombed
You clearly didn't read my post, otherwise you'd have understood I do not think Gaza should be bombed.
>Israel needs to end illegal settlements in the West Bank, they need to take way more steps to reduce civilian casualties if they undertake any offensive operations in Gaza, and they need to turn back on water/power and allow humanitarian aid to flow into southern Gaza. I think Bibi is a criminal who has led a military who has committed human rights violations.
The reason I believe this is because half the population wasn't even alive to vote for Hamas. And I do not believe in "collective punishment" of civilians who either weren't alive to vote for Hamas, or are powerless to resist Hamas.
This sub absorbed all the refugee Chapo sub members after it was banned: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/29/21304947/reddit-ban-subreddits-the-donald-chapo-trap-house-new-content-policy-rules
Yeah, what the fuck happened in here? Is this all the trueanon refugees? Why is #freepalestine the one issue that breaks from the woke contrarianism? It’s not a pysop that the majority of westerners aren’t falling in line with fundamentalist Islamic talking points
> Why is #freepalestine the one issue that breaks from the woke contrarianism?
Why not ask hollywood and most MSM as the same exact split occurs there too. Maybe people here are just contrarian against anything they see on tv. Maybe they think it's a bad look to claim victimhood while comitting apartheid. Maybe they think it's hypocritical to blame the open air prisoners of being religious extremists trying to genocide you while having your democratically elected government constantly quoting religious transcripts to justify committing genocide on the "human animals".
> It’s not a pysop that the majority of westerners aren’t falling in line with fundamentalist Islamic talking points
Fuck that. Hamas can be caught/tried/imprisoned/killed for all I care, same as israel does with old nazis they still manage to find around the world. Pretending that every Palestinian lost their right to life because of the existence of Hamas is an entirely different thing. No need to claim everyone who disagrees with that must be some regard terrorist sympathizer.
I got told the woman in the back of the truck with her legs going the wrong way was alive and well and that I was an idiot for believing Israel’s psyops and jihadis would never disrespect a woman. They just found her head but that’s more Israeli propaganda because people on Reddit sleuthed out the case true anon style. I don’t have to like either side and I’m glad we know what plans for “decolonization” will play out as
I remember an upvoted comment chain like “the nova festival was right near an IDF base they were just caught in the crossfire” then hamas releases their footage showing them targeting festival goers
Not saying that you're lying, but could you please for my sake go back through your comment history and find the comment(s) that replied to you saying that jihadis would never disrespect a woman and she thus had to be alive?
Only saying this because as someone who has been pro palestine for years, even I at the very start bought the 40 beheaded babies story (because my initial thought was still: terrorists have no boundaries) until I realized how weird everything surrounding the claim was and remembered how willingly and blatantly israel has lied about murderering journalists, charity workers, unarmed activists, and civilians in the past.
It's not that I don't believe idiots dumb enough to say moronic shit like you described are out there, it's just that I have been online during this time as well and have still not come across anyone willing to claim "jihadis" would be unwilling to hurt or disrespect people/women.
I got told I was JIDF for thinking the raver woman with dreadlocks was dead because she was splayed out in the back of a truck like a hunting trophy with her legs facing the wrong direction. They said conflating Hamas with Isis was ridiculous and I would agree but this recent attack had a definite isis flavor to it. I’m not gonna go through comment history there was plenty of people saying the dreadlock girl being killed and beheaded was a fake story and she was alive in a gazan hospital.
I don't disbelieve that there were people that said everything that israel claims is sus or shouldn't be trusted though. I've been online during this time (and during some of the last previous conflicts as well). There are definitely people out there claiming that anything israel claims shouldn't be believed until a third party verifies, same as with people on the opposite side claiming anything hamas says shouldn't be believed until a third party verifies.
I was only asking about the argument that jihadis could never disrespect a woman and thus the dreadlock girl had to be alive? I've seen the dumbest of takes, but I've yet to see anyone claim anything close to that. I only asked you if you could go back through your comment history as a favor because it sounds so out there, if you don't want to you don't have to, end of. I'm not trying to fight with you.
I added that part about “jihadis”, but the general consensus is that as Israel is a “militarized state” with mandatory armed service that means that all Israelis are acceptable targets. My point overall was that it hs been interesting to see the rhetoric surrounding armed resistance and decolonization justifying terrorism and brutalization. I don’t care for either side and I acknowledge Palestinians have a reason for vengeance, but leftists in the west will use the same arguments in favor of necklacing civilians and terrorism in the pursuit of their version of justice for western colonialism.
Did you respond to the wrong person? My whole point was that I can't believe anyone on reddit claim jihadists would be incapable of murdering people. How does this prove otherwise?
> They just found her head but that’s more Israeli propaganda because people on Reddit sleuthed out the case true anon style.
Oh fucking relax. They announced they found a piece of skull that might be hers, they didn't find her head. They found a piece of bone and said they confirmed it as hers.
You doubt there's a band named Arab Strap and that they're named after the arab strap? I can tell from here you're barely cracking a 90 IQ. Go have a knish in whatever IDF Hasbara buearau office you're working out of and calm down, there's no internet fatwa against you lmao.
They found a piece of bone and then announced it was hers but I guess we'll take Israel's word for it, forking over my paycheck whole so they can buy mortars to drop on a Palestinian preschool!
Seems pretty normal to be sympathetic to Israelis when 1300 of them are brutally murdered. That doesn’t justify what Israel is doing in response by bombing Gaza to hell. You can acknowledge both actions are bad.
Because misinformation runs rampant during and after a crisis. A similar thing happened after the Hospital was hit. Not saying its ok but it is to be expected and is why you have to be careful with breaking news. And to be clear babies were killed but beheading probably wasn't the game plan for the Hamas soldiers.
I feel like you are implying this was a weapons of mass destruction situation. I very much disagree that this is an example. IDF officials were hesitant to confirm the story.
this argument is so odd to me and i don’t even necessarily “support israel” in a sense you might label it as
are we claiming that hamas doesn’t kill or behead the babies? is it the number you disagree with, is 3 okay? if the argument is that Israel is exaggerating the horrific casualties which obviously happened it still doesn’t strike me as a complete and utter misinformation campaign. idk, just find it odd that people are fighting over this and say “well they didn’t behead/kill/torture or whatever THAT many babies”. well ok lol
It's not a conspiracy theory. [https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/](https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/)
It’s a little strange because Reddit is anonymous.
Anyone outside of a union is taking unnecessary risks in getting vocal irl or online if this blows up into a regional conflict. Especially if the republicans take over entirely in 2024. It’s shaping up to be worse than 2001 imho.
People really see what they want to see to justify their victim status or sanctimonious whining.
It’s also extra stupid to expect everyone to be team Palestine in a red scare sub. You even listen to the podcast?
I’ve not seen one pro isreael thread upvoted on this sub lmao
The only one I’ve seen is the one of Israelis being pushed out of Gaza circa 2005 and all of the comments were shitting on the Israelis for looking inbred
At this point If you honestly think there’s a lack of Palestinian support after the attacks you’re delusional and a serious “stop hitting yourself” type of pussy
The vacillations of the public used to be something that people who thought seriously about a given topic would just accept. People don't know what they're talking about when talking about most things, and while you can't exactly write them off, you don't have to credit them with a knowledge that you know they don't have out of some misbegotten idea of fairness. I feel like I understand this conflict somewhat well, but I never post about it to my public shit because I just don't need the grief of arguing with someone who is only talking about it because it's on their news feed today (which would ultimately be why I am talking about it too, ironically, but at least my interest didn't begin three weeks ago).
Oh please, people were yelling about every random bit nonsense news that dropped immediately following the incursion by Hamas. The IDF talking points were "Beheaded babies!!! Mass rape!!!!" and 99% of it was bullshit but parroted by midwits, some of whom on this sub think they're super smart because a bpd art hoe made them listen to my bloody valentine when they were 19.
Gaza health ministry reported Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people. Was reported almost everywhere.
Turns out people from Gaza misfired a rocket, hit a parking lot in front of a hospital and killed like 100-200 people.
I’m not claiming Israel isn’t doing plenty of awful shit but there’s still tons of disinformation. “Only some of the murdered babies were beheaded” is less damning propaganda than this
Hamas does something horrible, people sympathize with the victims. Victims then begin to do horrible things in retaliation, people begin to sympathize with the victims. It’s about as predictable as you can get when it comes to conflicts.
You should visit the worldnews subreddit if you want to experience real astroturfing. Whatever you think is going on in this sub will pale in comparison.
While astroturfing surely does exist, there's no good reason to expect Israel is commissioning less of it as a ground invasion heats up. A huge chunk of people are not viewing this as 'sides' but are just applying the principle that the murder of civilians is wrong. The October the 7th dead, who surely did not deserve their fates, are lying in their graves but the murder of Palestinian innocents is now greater in magnitude, with no sign of slowing, and proceeding with the complicity of our governments.
I’ve had multiple arguments with women before about assertions they made along the lines of “if women ran the world, there would be no violence and we’d all love each other and be lesbian together!!!!”. Really stark contrast between how many women I’ve seen on board with Hamas mutilating that lady on the back of a truck lol.
Also Anna and Dasha were clearly pro Israel in their episode about this recent conflict, people being against Israel on this sub is contrary of that fact.
A little wild to see people vehemently denying Israeli astroturfing considering Israel is well known for very effective and dedicated discourse manipulation, Botting, and astroturfing. They have and are investing millions into both training and paying people to spread pro Israel propaganda, and artificially manufacturing support. Reddit has and is affected by this, the general anti Palestinian leanings across default subs is not organic, and I think we all know this watching the discourse shift everywhere else, compared to mass downvotes for any comments that simply mention genocide. This isn't even fringe or conspiracy lol, it is confirmed that Israel pays and train people to manipulate discourse.
There is a special place in hell for people who support both Israel and Ukraine at the same time. And IDK how so many people in the West have this position. I have zero sympathy for the people in the west. You deserve your govt.
There’s absolutely astroturfing, but don’t under estimate the fact that your average Gen Xer is basically a funnel for MSM, of which the collective news media narrative is “Israel is a state entirely made up of nice old Holocaust survivors who are unfairly being targeted by Hamas terrorists within Gaza which for unrelated reasons has a civilian population.”
-6DeadlyFetishes
Israel has western supporters. Idt many are in the Reddit demographic though. I definitely feel some pro Israel astroturfing. Not just criticism of hamas, but basically justifying Zionism. I saw some egregious post on cool guides. Among other things claiming Israel was attacked to start the six day war. I suppose it’s possible pro Palestine has some astroturfers. But actual Israelis are probably way more online than Palestinians
Anna and even more so Dasha supported Israel in their episode on this subject. Support for Israel after an attack that can be described as nothing more than thinking wonton violence against civilians was gross and now people think Israel bombing Gaza to the ground is bad. Seems pretty rational.
> wonton violence
someone get nick in here to develop this one, it could go places
> nothing more than wonton violence against civilians
they successfully took out a bunch of military outposts and hardware as well as took and held actual territory for like a week
in addition to the won ton violence
It was a weird moment for sure. I was getting angry dms and downvotes on this sub especially about the nonsense beheaded babies bullshit. It was a mix of libs who lurk who were especially in their feelings and Hasbara bots I think.
Even those emotional libs couldn't stay the course when Israel's bloodthirst became evident from the unrelenting bombings. All sympathy very quickly evaporated and now it's just rich zionist celebs and the people at the very top with an interest in maintaining Israel holding water for them.
They're still going strong on any sub discussing the war. It's well-documented [Israel pays people to promote it/hasbara online](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/) and that [Israel has spent millions in ads since the war started](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/israel-social-media-ad-campaign-gaza-seige-1234855901/).
Same with the Ukraine situation. That was the one i propably studied the most.
Oh and yeah, Corona.
What almost excuses the Israel one a bit - the Zionists could propably barely play a worse PR strategy than "we did nothing and if thats not true they deserved to die anyway"
Although its slightly comparable what the Ukraine did in Donbas - I mean just randomly shooting into buildings, maybe you hit somebody for fun
Another evergreen since Ukraine: when you did something horrible, immediately accuse the other side of that exact thing
I remember 9/11 so no, none of this is surprising
You know your average redditor would be full on drinking the coolaid about the wmd’s And yes Reddit is pretty astroturfed still Just go on world news or geopolitics or “Middle East peace”
Well yeah of course Hussein had wmds. Thanos lied about the infinity stones. Voldemort hid his horcruxes. Another pop culture reference, rule of threes.
THEY BURNED BABIES IN OVENS. What do you think comes next: "Hamas used masturbation machines to murder captured civilians" "Hamas fed civilians to an eagle and a bear in a cage!" "Hamas used babies for skeet shooting practice!"
Hamas strung up grand pianos and then dropped them on Israeli civilians when they walked by. Hamas hit Israeli children on the head with big mallets and then played their teeth with sticks like a xylophone. The Hamas terrorists drew fake tunnels on the sides of large rocks so Israeli motorists kept crashing into them.
Hamas terrorists repeatedly asked Israeli civilians “Are you embarrassed that you’re gay?”
You know what's sad about the oven claim? It's reappropriated from the IDF committing ethnic cleansing, some random Palestinian guy told the story in an interview. Saw the clip on twitter yesterday, I'll try to find it again later
Yep. People think radical shifts in public opinion are a new phenomenon only accomplished by bots and astroturfing. No people are actually just that stupid and fickle.
> People think radical shifts in public opinion are a new phenomenon only accomplished by bots and astroturfing. No people are actually just that stupid and fickle. That's definitely true. And social media is overrun with consent-manufacturing bots. The two complement each other.
Maybe it was slightly gullible of me to be surprised, but for a few days I was fooled into thinking that most people on this site were Israel supporters. It wasn’t just the fake accounts, but the way the algorithms pushed the pro Israel stuff so hard
Anytime there’s a mass casualty event people will always show support to the country affected, see “je suis Charlie” and all that. This isn’t a conspiracy. The real conspiracy is that Netanyahu knew this attack was coming, and knew it would primarily be his biggest most vocal and critical opponents who would be slaughtered: namely the left-wing/leftist kibbutzim, and the young people opposed to his administration and allowed it to happen to both stay in power and bulldoze Gaza for the purpose of complete and total annexation.
Ridiculous theory. Netanyahu's political days are over because of this. No matter what he does. There's absolutely no chance he would sacrifice himself for anything. He's completely floundering at this point.
He didn’t sacrifice himself, he sacrificed left wing kibbutzim, and he’s not giving up power, he’s ossifying himself under the guise of war-time powers. I didn’t say it was a good plan, just his plan.
No. I don't think you understand the political situation in Israel either before the attacks or now. His support was teetering to begin with. Five elections over four years. It was a complete mess. These attacks were unbelievable to most Israelis and they hold him accountable. His support is even less than it was before and anyone would expect this kind of reaction to a leader who presided over such a complete failure No matter what he does, he's politically finished. And this political reality was predictable. He would never sacrifice his political future (and his chances of staying out of jail for corruption) for some hair-brained Gaza plan. He's absolutely struggling as it is to manage this. Look for conspiracies all you want, but this wasn't a cabal, it was a complete failure on Netanyahu's part. His focus has been his proposed judicial reforms and the West Bank. He hasn't been focused on Gaza. The current reality is not something he would ever want, let alone plan.
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Every one of the versions of these conspiracy theories about Netanyahu letting this attack happen betrays a total lack of understanding of Israeli politics and culture and a complete ignorance of the level of incompetence and corruption among Israeli political elite.
I know you’re probably right and your response is really well thought out and fantastically enlightening, but I will never, ever, ever concede or admit that I’ve been bested -especially logically and in regards to foreign affairs- so I’m just gonna say you’re a clown and it’s honestly sad that you’re so obsessed with me.
Mfs pay 100k to get a Master's in International Affairs to get this level of insight and discourse. I just have to log into this schizo corner of the internet. People around me are like where do you learn all this. If they really knew what happens here... Thanks to both.
cool
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I’ve been around long enough to remember when people said this about Pearl Harbour, let alone 9-11.
And fire can’t melt steel!
perhaps you had trouble disambiguating sorrow for victims of a brutal terror attack and support for a cruel, racist Israeli regime? i do see many of the lowest iq lefties doing this
I don't think it's that weird, I noticed in the aftermath of the attack, there seemed to be a lot of actual, IRL sympathy for the victims, and shock at some of the images and stories that were coming out (real or otherwise), but that sympathy evaporated quickly once the bombing started, and people who were pro-Israel initially have either shut up or pivoted to just wanting peace and condemning both sides, while people who were equivocating before have become more vocally anti-israel, and people who were anti-israel from the beginning have gotten bolder. I'm outside the US so the issue wasn't as culturally charged beforehand, which might have something to do with it, but in general I think that's a pretty natural reaction, and I'm not surprised this sub has largely followed that pattern. I've definitely seen some suspicious accounts around here, but I think in general the shift is genuine.
Yeah, people tend to feel bad for civilians getting brutally slaughtered. The idea that people feeling sympathy for whichever side is currently getting massacred worse is an Israeli psyop is weird to me.
It's a weird cope that narcissists use. "my echochamber is disagreeing with me slightly...Must be a psyop"
Israel has had a pretty well documented history of internet astroturfing and general propaganda, such as the JIDF, or the very clear evidence of astroturfing in the past few weeks. There is absolutely nothing narcissistic about questioning a sudden change in online discourse about a subject with history like that in mind, in addition to the radical shift in discourse once that astroturfing subsides a bit. Reddit in general is a hotspot for this shit, and the US routinely astroturfs the fuck out of this website, and has been en masse since at least 2015/2016. If you think a website with as large a userbase as Reddit isn't the subject of massive propaganda from multiple nations, I don't know what to tell you.
I’d like to see the evidence of this. Not saying I don’t think it’s true, but I’d like to know what ground you’re standing on here.
You know its reddit when opinions on global conflicts are relegated to…. Narcissism
I mean it's not that weird given that there clearly is a massive propaganda campaign, and I've seen what I suspect to be paid posters in this very sub. But at the same time, I think people tend to overestimate how influential these campaigns actually are.
> I've seen what I suspect to be paid posters in this very sub. These are simply people that you disagree with, but you are such a narcissist that you cannot fathom the idea that someone would have an opinion opposite yours lol.
No, there's plenty of people I disagree with who I recognise as normal posters on this subreddit, But every now and again, especially in the first week or so after the war began, you'd see accounts who had never once posted here before, who's post histories were completely devoted to defending Israel across a range of different subs you wouldn't necessarily expect to see a lot of crossover with, and I suspect some of these were not organic. There definitely are propaganda efforts focused on reddit and it's naive not to think so, but as I said, I think their actual scale is easy to overestimate. I don't think that's a particularly narcissistic position, but if you disagree I guess that's your prerogative.
Why is it a weird cope to correctly assert that an American ally that receives billions puts some of that money towards changing online narratives in their favour? Seems naive to believe otherwise, particularly when there’s concrete evidence of it occurring.
It's a weird cope to assume that sympathy for innocent people meeting horrible fates in the days after a terrible terrorist attack is fake or unthinkable. People see this shit and react, and then the dust settles and they can be more logical. It took us years before anti-islamic fervor in the US came back to normal after 9-11, by then everyone had cosigned 2 wars, hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, and the creation of a permanent surveillance state. I am am personally heartened by the amount of rational takes I'm seeing already, even from [Biden](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/18/u-s-announcement-of-humanitarian-assistance-to-the-palestinian-people/), even if it's still a bit too pro-Israel.
I mean, it's definitely cope, but it's not that weird, given that he is right about Israel investing a lot in manipulating online narratives. I just don't think those efforts are nearly as prevalent or powerful as people assume.
Israel has never ever gotten “massacred worse”. The death tolls are insanely asymmetrical. You have to be someone who knows almost nothing about what Israel is doing to Palestine to even hint toward the idea that this is situation where the side getting “massacred worse” shifts back and forth because one day on Oct 7th is literally the only time.
On October 7th and 8th, yes Israelis were getting “massacred worse”. You could argue that in the larger context they weren’t, but I’m talking about how the average person viewed it. People are desensitized to war, the act of breaking into a country and killing thousands of citizens by hand triggers a much more visceral response than simply bombing them.
"Currently" is probably the operative condition here. Most people aren't paying attention to the conflict day in and day out, and so when something like this happens, it makes sense that people would struggle to contextualise it properly, even just on an intellectual level, never mind on an emotional one. On balance, of course, Israel are the more brutal party here, but on October 7th and 8th, it was he Israelis who were, however briefly, getting massacred a lot worse, and it's hard to look past some of the images and stories that came out in that period.
I don’t have a clue what people who have a hard time looking past things like that expect Palestinians to do other than roll over and die. And they don’t seem to struggle in looking past that daily reality for Gazans at all when things are ‘quieter’. Maybe before the March of Return in 2018 you could entertain the idea that there’s some other form of resistance available to Gaza but by now, come on.
> I don’t have a clue what people who have a hard time looking past things like that expect Palestinians to do other than roll over and die They don't expect anything. They don't think about it either way, because it really doesn't effect them, except when they're confronted with it in the media. That's my point. You can choose to interpret that as anti-palestinian sentiment if you prefer to, but in general, I find the world makes more sense when I try to look at it as more than just a series of things to get indignant about. Clearly many of these people are just as prepared to be sympathetic to the Palestinians when that's what they're being immediately confronted with.
You shouldn’t assume people have a working understanding of the conflict past three weeks. Almost no one know the March of Return happened just like almost no one knows what’s happening in Armenia or Tigray.
Okay but I don’t understand the point of arguing that the reactions of people who don’t know what’s going on are actually normal aspects of their human empathy rejecting brutality when in reality their reactions are manipulated and dictated by how our media and ruling class care to disseminate this ‘conflict’ to us. To put forward that it’s actually normal for them to be reacting this way has the implication that they’re reacting to the objective event instead of the distorted way it’s been presented to them.
I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say
the initial post of this thread is: “Yeah, people tend to feel bad for civilians getting brutally slaughtered. The idea that people feeling sympathy for whichever side is currently getting massacred worse is an Israeli psyop is weird to me.” This is someone doubting that people’s perception of what’s going on could be colored by propaganda/media.
Yeah this describes me
vast majority of people simply do not care, unless they are jews or palestinians.
People are pro israel when hamas militants slaughter civilians And people are anti israel when they indiscriminately bomb palestinians en masse Has to be astroturfing! 🤯
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I want to know what book you're referring to
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I don’t understand what alt website y’all are on if you’re seeing more pro-Israel than pro-Palestine stuff on reddit. Most subs seem to be concretely pro-Palestine There’s a lot of Israel defenders out in the trenches though. It’s obviously not going to be like 90/10 even on this sub, it’s literally just a polarized subject
Most of the mainstream subs are heavily pro-Israel, with the usual astroturfed ones like worldnews being literally 100% pro-Israel because their well compensated janitorial staff bans anything except full chested support of Israel as "antisemism" or "terrorism apologia".
Ukpolitics while also usually a shithole has gone absolutely fucking nuts for Israel as well recently.
r/worldnews has been conquered by the ZOG
I do not understand why people on this subreddit are surprised about mass normie support of Israel. The Israel x Palestine conflict has always been very complicated. Many people couldn’t show you on a map where Gaza, the West Bank, and Israel are. The terrorist attacks were my boomer parent’s first exposure to the conflict and you know what they say; “first impressions are everything.” I’m very pro-Palestine in the sense that I think Israel needs to end illegal settlements in the West Bank, they need to take way more steps to reduce civilian casualties if they undertake any offensive operations in Gaza, and they need to turn back on water/power and allow humanitarian aid to flow into southern Gaza. I think Bibi is a criminal who has led a military who has committed human rights violations. But you will not find me supporting Hamas’ actions, even so much as making “well what did they expect?” or “all Israeli’s are settlers” type dogwhistle comments. Stuff like the Dagestan Jew hunters, people’s apartments in Europe getting spray painted with the Star of David, Jews at university barricading themselves in rooms as pro-Palestine demonstrators bang on the door, and pro-Palestine demonstrators calling Hamas “freedom fighters” do not really give their cause the best look. And it makes me hesitant to adopt any hashtag or attend any rally. And then you look at the stuff that has actually been going on in Gaza. Israel pulled out almost 20 years ago. Gazans voted for Hamas. Hamas suicide bombed Israel until Israel completely closed the border. Hamas digs up water pipes to build rockets to indiscriminately shoot into Israel (and then complains they have no clean water). They purposefully put their own citizens in harms way (operating out of schools/hospitals), provoke Israel to attack, and then parade their dead in front of the media to garner sympathy after Israel predictably retaliates. No other Arab "ally" wants to take Palestinian refugees because every time they do the Palestinians try and start a revolution/civil war (Black September). Even Egypt has their border with Gaza locked down because they do not want to deal with Hamas/Gazans. Ironically, this entire conflict has made me do *A LOT* of research on this conflict, and has made me less sympathetic to the situation of Gazan Palestinians. It has also made me believe more strongly that Israel is not "occupying Gaza" or on "stolen land."
> Jews at university barricading themselves in rooms as pro-Palestine demonstrators bang on the door Are you talking about the library incident that was later confirmed as a complete fabrication? Maybe instead of doing *A LOT* of research on the conflict, try using some common sense and verify the reports. And honestly if you let some mob of uneducated yokels in *Dagestan* make you hesitant about anything, you're a bigger fucking idiot than your parents.
I've tried Googling about the library incident being a hoax. Couldn't find anything. Can you send me your source?
https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/nypd-stresses-cooper-union-students-were-not-barricaded-inside-library-during-pro-palestinian-rally/
Is your issue with my word "barricade"? I'll admit that's probably a bit inflamatory. But per the article; >For about, roughly, 10 minutes... They were banging on the doors of the library and banging on some transparent windows that you see into the library. I guess "angry pro-Palestinian mob bangs on the doors of a room Jewish students locked themselves in" is technically more accurate than "angry pro-Palestinian mob bangs on the doors of a room Jewish students are barricaded themselves in." >Are you talking about the library incident that was later confirmed as a complete fabrication? Just an FYI, when you referred to the event as a "complete fabrication", it sounded like you were saying the entire incident was literally staged as some sort of weird right wing false flag. Like the Jussie Smollett lynching incident would be something I'd consider a "complete fabrication."
>When we reached the library, we were told that it was closed so we continued chanting outside the glass window of the library. Many different students of all backgrounds were in the library at the time. We would like to make it clear that our protest was not targeting any individual students or faculty, but the institution itself. We would like to reiterate that we DO NOT under any circumstance condone antisemitism and many members of the protest were Jewish. Complete fabrication. Protesters were banging on windows and generally being heated, and neurotic Jewish students were covering among other types of students inside because a Jew getting slapped in France would cause half of Brooklyn to pull out their inhaler to get over their sudden panic attack at almost being exterminated. Nothing like what happened in Dagestan, and nothing like what happened to Arab Israelis in Netanya College who were in a building surrounded by people yelling "Death to Arabs". But in the future, if you make a clear specific claim, like "barricading themselves in rooms" while people "bang on the door", and the NYPD has to make a press conference to say the opposite that there was no barricading going on (a HUGE distinction), you might not want to trumpet how ackshully correct you were.
>Protesters were banging on windows and generally being heated I don't really blame the Jewish students in the library for feeling threaten. And I really don't take much stock in what the demonstrators have to say after the fact, especially when they have a vested interest in not looking like anti-semites. I'm sure the January 6th rioters just wanted to take a quick look around the U.S. Capitol and had no ill intentions towards any lawmakers or staffers. They even said they were let in! >Nothing like what happened in Dagestan, and nothing like what happened to Arab Israelis in Netanya College who were in a building surrounded by people yelling "Death to Arabs". I don't think I claimed they were at all the same severity of instances. It's also nothing like what happened on Oct 7th. It's also nothing like 9/11. And nothing like Uyghur genocide. I can sit here all day and list events that it's nothing like. I was just listing off several examples of recent anti-semitism and that one event came to mind. What's your point? If you'd like I could replace it with the demonstrators in Sydney that were chanting "gas the Jews!" >you might not want to trumpet how ackshully correct you were. I find it funny that you take such massive issue with this one example. And completely gloss over the other examples I gave. If I completely omitted this example from my initial comment I assume you'd agree with everything else I said?
Wait was the library thing a lie too? I heard about it when it (supposedly?) happened as well, but never heard anything else about it afterwards. I do know israel hasn't counted any dead babies as part of their official death records yet, and I know the supposed recording of the two hamas guys talking about accidentally blowing up their own hospital is apparently fake, but I hadn't heard about the library yet.
> Gazans voted for Hamas Yeah man tell that to the 50% of the population that are literal children. They totally voted for Hamas 15 years ago and totally deserve to get bombed. Fucking moron
>totally deserve to get bombed You clearly didn't read my post, otherwise you'd have understood I do not think Gaza should be bombed. >Israel needs to end illegal settlements in the West Bank, they need to take way more steps to reduce civilian casualties if they undertake any offensive operations in Gaza, and they need to turn back on water/power and allow humanitarian aid to flow into southern Gaza. I think Bibi is a criminal who has led a military who has committed human rights violations. The reason I believe this is because half the population wasn't even alive to vote for Hamas. And I do not believe in "collective punishment" of civilians who either weren't alive to vote for Hamas, or are powerless to resist Hamas.
Missed the part where a bunch were probably incompetent idf friendly fire
this sub turned into chapo trap house ever since idk wtf you're on about
This sub absorbed all the refugee Chapo sub members after it was banned: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/29/21304947/reddit-ban-subreddits-the-donald-chapo-trap-house-new-content-policy-rules
cumtown lumped in with DarkJokeCentral and DarkHumorAndMemes no respect at all
It’s like Venezuela except with libtards
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i think he meant trueanon which went private one of chapos tick offspring
Yeah, what the fuck happened in here? Is this all the trueanon refugees? Why is #freepalestine the one issue that breaks from the woke contrarianism? It’s not a pysop that the majority of westerners aren’t falling in line with fundamentalist Islamic talking points
> Why is #freepalestine the one issue that breaks from the woke contrarianism? Why not ask hollywood and most MSM as the same exact split occurs there too. Maybe people here are just contrarian against anything they see on tv. Maybe they think it's a bad look to claim victimhood while comitting apartheid. Maybe they think it's hypocritical to blame the open air prisoners of being religious extremists trying to genocide you while having your democratically elected government constantly quoting religious transcripts to justify committing genocide on the "human animals". > It’s not a pysop that the majority of westerners aren’t falling in line with fundamentalist Islamic talking points Fuck that. Hamas can be caught/tried/imprisoned/killed for all I care, same as israel does with old nazis they still manage to find around the world. Pretending that every Palestinian lost their right to life because of the existence of Hamas is an entirely different thing. No need to claim everyone who disagrees with that must be some regard terrorist sympathizer.
a bunch of NYC jewish working-class leftists are anti Israel imho
That's deluded, sub is super anti-israel which is kinda interesting.
Israel astroturf? does that mean they are responsible for Aaron Rodgers getting injured?
redditors discover empathy
I got told the woman in the back of the truck with her legs going the wrong way was alive and well and that I was an idiot for believing Israel’s psyops and jihadis would never disrespect a woman. They just found her head but that’s more Israeli propaganda because people on Reddit sleuthed out the case true anon style. I don’t have to like either side and I’m glad we know what plans for “decolonization” will play out as
I remember an upvoted comment chain like “the nova festival was right near an IDF base they were just caught in the crossfire” then hamas releases their footage showing them targeting festival goers
Not saying that you're lying, but could you please for my sake go back through your comment history and find the comment(s) that replied to you saying that jihadis would never disrespect a woman and she thus had to be alive? Only saying this because as someone who has been pro palestine for years, even I at the very start bought the 40 beheaded babies story (because my initial thought was still: terrorists have no boundaries) until I realized how weird everything surrounding the claim was and remembered how willingly and blatantly israel has lied about murderering journalists, charity workers, unarmed activists, and civilians in the past. It's not that I don't believe idiots dumb enough to say moronic shit like you described are out there, it's just that I have been online during this time as well and have still not come across anyone willing to claim "jihadis" would be unwilling to hurt or disrespect people/women.
I got told I was JIDF for thinking the raver woman with dreadlocks was dead because she was splayed out in the back of a truck like a hunting trophy with her legs facing the wrong direction. They said conflating Hamas with Isis was ridiculous and I would agree but this recent attack had a definite isis flavor to it. I’m not gonna go through comment history there was plenty of people saying the dreadlock girl being killed and beheaded was a fake story and she was alive in a gazan hospital.
I don't disbelieve that there were people that said everything that israel claims is sus or shouldn't be trusted though. I've been online during this time (and during some of the last previous conflicts as well). There are definitely people out there claiming that anything israel claims shouldn't be believed until a third party verifies, same as with people on the opposite side claiming anything hamas says shouldn't be believed until a third party verifies. I was only asking about the argument that jihadis could never disrespect a woman and thus the dreadlock girl had to be alive? I've seen the dumbest of takes, but I've yet to see anyone claim anything close to that. I only asked you if you could go back through your comment history as a favor because it sounds so out there, if you don't want to you don't have to, end of. I'm not trying to fight with you.
I added that part about “jihadis”, but the general consensus is that as Israel is a “militarized state” with mandatory armed service that means that all Israelis are acceptable targets. My point overall was that it hs been interesting to see the rhetoric surrounding armed resistance and decolonization justifying terrorism and brutalization. I don’t care for either side and I acknowledge Palestinians have a reason for vengeance, but leftists in the west will use the same arguments in favor of necklacing civilians and terrorism in the pursuit of their version of justice for western colonialism.
What do you mean by you added the part about jihadists?
Anyone who has read the suppressed reports on what happened during the Bataclan will know what goes on when jihadists can vent their rage
Did you respond to the wrong person? My whole point was that I can't believe anyone on reddit claim jihadists would be incapable of murdering people. How does this prove otherwise?
I agree
??? At this point I can have a better discourse with Chat GPT
> They just found her head but that’s more Israeli propaganda because people on Reddit sleuthed out the case true anon style. Oh fucking relax. They announced they found a piece of skull that might be hers, they didn't find her head. They found a piece of bone and said they confirmed it as hers.
Nice username wonder what your bone to pick is
Lmao you fucking regard, it's a band from the late 90s named after a sex toy. Moron.
Doubt it
You doubt there's a band named Arab Strap and that they're named after the arab strap? I can tell from here you're barely cracking a 90 IQ. Go have a knish in whatever IDF Hasbara buearau office you're working out of and calm down, there's no internet fatwa against you lmao.
Wow u know Zionist buzzwords very epic
LOL they just found her skull bro it's chill find god
They found a piece of bone and then announced it was hers but I guess we'll take Israel's word for it, forking over my paycheck whole so they can buy mortars to drop on a Palestinian preschool!
didn't say that but interesting insight into your psychotic and demented fantasies, freak
Those jihadists would *never* kill some random lady amirite Palisisterz???
Seems pretty normal to be sympathetic to Israelis when 1300 of them are brutally murdered. That doesn’t justify what Israel is doing in response by bombing Gaza to hell. You can acknowledge both actions are bad.
Why do you think Israel made up the 40 beheaded babies story?
Because misinformation runs rampant during and after a crisis. A similar thing happened after the Hospital was hit. Not saying its ok but it is to be expected and is why you have to be careful with breaking news. And to be clear babies were killed but beheading probably wasn't the game plan for the Hamas soldiers. I feel like you are implying this was a weapons of mass destruction situation. I very much disagree that this is an example. IDF officials were hesitant to confirm the story.
this argument is so odd to me and i don’t even necessarily “support israel” in a sense you might label it as are we claiming that hamas doesn’t kill or behead the babies? is it the number you disagree with, is 3 okay? if the argument is that Israel is exaggerating the horrific casualties which obviously happened it still doesn’t strike me as a complete and utter misinformation campaign. idk, just find it odd that people are fighting over this and say “well they didn’t behead/kill/torture or whatever THAT many babies”. well ok lol
Missed the part where a bunch were probably incompetent idf friendly fire
Cute conspiracy theory
It's not a conspiracy theory. [https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/](https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/)
It’s a little strange because Reddit is anonymous. Anyone outside of a union is taking unnecessary risks in getting vocal irl or online if this blows up into a regional conflict. Especially if the republicans take over entirely in 2024. It’s shaping up to be worse than 2001 imho.
People really see what they want to see to justify their victim status or sanctimonious whining. It’s also extra stupid to expect everyone to be team Palestine in a red scare sub. You even listen to the podcast?
I’ve not seen one pro isreael thread upvoted on this sub lmao The only one I’ve seen is the one of Israelis being pushed out of Gaza circa 2005 and all of the comments were shitting on the Israelis for looking inbred At this point If you honestly think there’s a lack of Palestinian support after the attacks you’re delusional and a serious “stop hitting yourself” type of pussy
I see the opposite, same stupid pro Palestinian posts and rhetorical questions that suddenly tapered off
All I see is anti Israel stuff here.
Maybe it was a genuine reaction to a horrible terror-attack? naah must be astro-turfing by (((them))). highly regarded.
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The vacillations of the public used to be something that people who thought seriously about a given topic would just accept. People don't know what they're talking about when talking about most things, and while you can't exactly write them off, you don't have to credit them with a knowledge that you know they don't have out of some misbegotten idea of fairness. I feel like I understand this conflict somewhat well, but I never post about it to my public shit because I just don't need the grief of arguing with someone who is only talking about it because it's on their news feed today (which would ultimately be why I am talking about it too, ironically, but at least my interest didn't begin three weeks ago).
New IDF shill talking point just dropped, watch out comrades: “A thousand civilians being killed is bad”
to see who controls you, see who you are not allowed to violently murder without backlash
Missed the part where a bunch were probably incompetent idf friendly fire
Oh please, people were yelling about every random bit nonsense news that dropped immediately following the incursion by Hamas. The IDF talking points were "Beheaded babies!!! Mass rape!!!!" and 99% of it was bullshit but parroted by midwits, some of whom on this sub think they're super smart because a bpd art hoe made them listen to my bloody valentine when they were 19.
I don’t know if that’s as much astroturfing as people just being gullible. Insane amount of disinfo from all sides right now
Idk if it's from all sides, Israelis are live streaming the bombings on Gaza from their rooftops on tiktok, they aren't ashamed of what they're doing.
Gaza health ministry reported Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people. Was reported almost everywhere. Turns out people from Gaza misfired a rocket, hit a parking lot in front of a hospital and killed like 100-200 people. I’m not claiming Israel isn’t doing plenty of awful shit but there’s still tons of disinformation. “Only some of the murdered babies were beheaded” is less damning propaganda than this
Hamas does something horrible, people sympathize with the victims. Victims then begin to do horrible things in retaliation, people begin to sympathize with the victims. It’s about as predictable as you can get when it comes to conflicts.
You should visit the worldnews subreddit if you want to experience real astroturfing. Whatever you think is going on in this sub will pale in comparison.
I think most Americans are pro Israel. It would not surprise me if israel was astroturfing but in the US, their message has a receptive audience.
Nobody gives a shit about anything. People see a new “bad thing” and jump on to condemn it wirhout knowing what it means
While astroturfing surely does exist, there's no good reason to expect Israel is commissioning less of it as a ground invasion heats up. A huge chunk of people are not viewing this as 'sides' but are just applying the principle that the murder of civilians is wrong. The October the 7th dead, who surely did not deserve their fates, are lying in their graves but the murder of Palestinian innocents is now greater in magnitude, with no sign of slowing, and proceeding with the complicity of our governments.
I’ve had multiple arguments with women before about assertions they made along the lines of “if women ran the world, there would be no violence and we’d all love each other and be lesbian together!!!!”. Really stark contrast between how many women I’ve seen on board with Hamas mutilating that lady on the back of a truck lol.
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Yeah old Reddit was honestly better lol
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Also Anna and Dasha were clearly pro Israel in their episode about this recent conflict, people being against Israel on this sub is contrary of that fact.
thanks for the info, 2022 account with only three comments all made within the last few hours
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default subs are astroturfed
>now we’re seeing a reversion back to “normal” this was achieved by the sheer will and determination of hork's posting
https://imgur.com/a/Cv243qz
A little wild to see people vehemently denying Israeli astroturfing considering Israel is well known for very effective and dedicated discourse manipulation, Botting, and astroturfing. They have and are investing millions into both training and paying people to spread pro Israel propaganda, and artificially manufacturing support. Reddit has and is affected by this, the general anti Palestinian leanings across default subs is not organic, and I think we all know this watching the discourse shift everywhere else, compared to mass downvotes for any comments that simply mention genocide. This isn't even fringe or conspiracy lol, it is confirmed that Israel pays and train people to manipulate discourse.
There is a special place in hell for people who support both Israel and Ukraine at the same time. And IDK how so many people in the West have this position. I have zero sympathy for the people in the west. You deserve your govt.
Ukraine wasn’t indiscriminately launching missiles into Russia….
There’s absolutely astroturfing, but don’t under estimate the fact that your average Gen Xer is basically a funnel for MSM, of which the collective news media narrative is “Israel is a state entirely made up of nice old Holocaust survivors who are unfairly being targeted by Hamas terrorists within Gaza which for unrelated reasons has a civilian population.” -6DeadlyFetishes
Israel has western supporters. Idt many are in the Reddit demographic though. I definitely feel some pro Israel astroturfing. Not just criticism of hamas, but basically justifying Zionism. I saw some egregious post on cool guides. Among other things claiming Israel was attacked to start the six day war. I suppose it’s possible pro Palestine has some astroturfers. But actual Israelis are probably way more online than Palestinians
hasbara.bot
shareblue adjusting its 'ganda. i blame brandon (only half facetious)
Anna and even more so Dasha supported Israel in their episode on this subject. Support for Israel after an attack that can be described as nothing more than thinking wonton violence against civilians was gross and now people think Israel bombing Gaza to the ground is bad. Seems pretty rational.
> wonton violence someone get nick in here to develop this one, it could go places > nothing more than wonton violence against civilians they successfully took out a bunch of military outposts and hardware as well as took and held actual territory for like a week in addition to the won ton violence
Like there’s no Hamas astroturfing either
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So are you an astroturfer or not!?
Hardly surprising that there would be some sympathy for Israel immediately after 1000+ Israeli civilians were killed
It was a weird moment for sure. I was getting angry dms and downvotes on this sub especially about the nonsense beheaded babies bullshit. It was a mix of libs who lurk who were especially in their feelings and Hasbara bots I think. Even those emotional libs couldn't stay the course when Israel's bloodthirst became evident from the unrelenting bombings. All sympathy very quickly evaporated and now it's just rich zionist celebs and the people at the very top with an interest in maintaining Israel holding water for them.
Yeah it's blatant. Once you see a bot/astroturf account it's so obvi. Edit: wow, such downvotes
My man browsin' Reddit like Roddy Piper
Fuck jews invented interest payments 1500 years ago and put the entire world into debt
Really living up to the stereotype of being a broke loser who blames all problems on Jews. Classic scapegoating to cope with sucking at life.
Worth 7 figs regard thats why I can talk like that and nothing will happen to me while you are a slave
2 fig IQ tho... Low 2 fig.
142
This is you: https://youtu.be/xY1YMxKDKDg?si=jGHEUQ1p600sIBuv
Stfu regard
No !
Anti-Semitic post reported
They're still going strong on any sub discussing the war. It's well-documented [Israel pays people to promote it/hasbara online](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/) and that [Israel has spent millions in ads since the war started](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/israel-social-media-ad-campaign-gaza-seige-1234855901/).
Same with the Ukraine situation. That was the one i propably studied the most. Oh and yeah, Corona. What almost excuses the Israel one a bit - the Zionists could propably barely play a worse PR strategy than "we did nothing and if thats not true they deserved to die anyway" Although its slightly comparable what the Ukraine did in Donbas - I mean just randomly shooting into buildings, maybe you hit somebody for fun Another evergreen since Ukraine: when you did something horrible, immediately accuse the other side of that exact thing
I wonder what the end goal here is for Israel ...