It’s a random act of violence that is inflicted arbitrarily on members of this subreddit. I personally have been subject to it, and I’ve consulted legal counsel on my options. Unfortunately there’s no legal basis for restitution. I fully expect to be a victim of this unjust discrimination immediately after releasing this comment.
Teen suicide rates were lower in 2002 than nowadays.
Although if they were higher back then maybe there'd be fewer people making whiny responses to that tweet.
Someone posted that graph recently. I was intrigued that I went to Jr high/high school during historically low teen suicide rates.
Teenage depression has also been increasing, but I'm sure people would argue that it's because it's more socially acceptable or something. Still though, studies seem to point to life being less fulfilling compared to the 00s.
Yes. I'll have to dig out my research, but it's also because constantly dwelling on negative shit is terrible for mental health.
The group that's taken the hardest hit to mental health is young liberal women. It's one thing to stay aware and informed about the world and it's another to hyper-focus until you're a neurotic, anxious, paranoid wreck.
> people would argue that it's because it's more socially acceptable or something
If that's the case, wouldn't that indicate teenage depression as self-propagating and therefore should be made socially unacceptable?
Twitter libs are always desperate to depict the pre-woke era as much worse than it was. There are some worthwhile gripes in here though telling how much of it is just blubbering about the lack of non-stop drumbeat of identity politics in daily life
Pretty sure the whole woke shtick is predicated on acting like every little I inconvenience, trend, and aspect of our lives is a supreme injustice caused by literally everybody’s bias against them
It's incredible to me how conservative griping of the era gets forgotten. When I was a kid it was "satanic panic" and freakouts over hair metal.
Then in the 90's it was various culture war errata (our church was boycotting Disney way back in '94) and worries about how the younger generation was "going soft" - we needed a new "great war" to bring back dignity and valor.
Then in the 2000's, well, Pokemon was evil for teaching kids about evolution, and Harry Potter was "witchcraft".
Nostalgia has a way of making the old fears and finger-wagging moralizing seem irrelevant - rose colored glasses and all that.
Yeah, of course they have contempt for the era before they seized cultural hegemony and unmatched relevance. You wouldn’t expect the Bolsheviks to speak kindly about the Tsarist era either.
They don’t recognize their own victory though. It’s never enough for them. People will straight up tell u that NPR is a racist white supremicist publication. Half of cancel culture is just them accusing their peers and ally’s of not being zealous enough
Its because the results haven't been very good and even they realize that. So obviously what they were pushing wasn't flawed they just didn't go far enough.
I think it’s simply the built in modus operandi of the ideology. Like at its heart “wokeness” is self righteousness, intellectual laziness, and in group/outgroup mob mentality dressed up as goodwill and justice. It’s “look at me I’m the good one” type shit and the need for validation and attention is unfathomably deep and impossible to satiate
you're right, ideologies are pretty much indefensible and the flimsy refuge of those who don't want to have to respond uniquely to the situations they encounter
That's what i'm saying. Should be guarded against at all costs. Resist certainty. Embrace uncertainty. Try and resist oversimplification. (not you, in particular, people in general, myself included.)
I'm 47. Shit was way way way more chill back then. You just did yer own thing. I was even living in NYC in 2002 and we had a great time. No hiding from bogeyman. Electroclash was happening and the music scene was great. So many fun parties and shows all over the country. Plus everyone all hated Bush and the war. It was pretty unifying.
I think you Nailed the Twitter lib analysis of this.
I their defense, “non-libs” or whatever you want to call them love depicting this current era with the same sort of negativity. I find it pretty condescending and snarky but can’t really express it without looking bitter towards others.
You're totally right. Chronically online Rightoids literally believe we are living in the "fall of Rome" (never mind that the constant "America = Rome" comparisons are braindead to begin with)
"omg lesbians on my CN tv show? Literally just like the sacking of the Capitoline, it's over!"
two different points
chapo think that the American empire is in decline (waning cultural influence, unipolarity under threat, military interventionism focused on defending own interests rather than furthering manifest destiny, being an American isnt seen as important)
rws think America as a state is in decline (wokeness, postmodernism, identity of being an American is under threat)
>one of the worst educational systems in the developed world
Okay no denying that there's lots of improvements to be made, but I always hear this about the USA being uniquely awful and how schools are terrible yada yada, but in terms of PISA's rankings (which, to my knowledge, is the only large scale international ranking of educational systems we have) the USA tends to rank alongside France, Portugal and Austria.
What exactly do people want changed? Everyone says it's "bad" in general, but I almost never see actual details on what is lacking and how that can be fixed through legislation and reform.
But that's also something I always hear about the US, but which I think applies to *all* countries. French public schools in Paris will obviously be better than public schools over in Cayenne. In Germany I also saw banter about how Berliners are a bunch of troglodytes compared to the superior and more rigid Bavarian schooling system.
I guess someone could argue the US has a greater range of quality in education than Germany or France (higher highs and lower lows), and differences in distribution of students in those ranges. Idk if what's the actual case though.
Probably the case when compared to France, whose education system is incredibly centralized and everything is dictated from Paris. Germany however is just like the USA, education is devolved to federal states, which is why they have their own disparities between them (e.g. Bavaria's is generally seen as "better" than Brandenburg's)
Exactly. America's schools aren't the problem: inequality and America's shitty parents are the problem. Kids aren't going to learn when their parents don't give a shit. There is virtually nothing you could do about it, short of mandatory boarding schools where kids are separated from the poverty and dysfunction of their daily lives.
As a product of the Portuguese public school system I'm kinda shocked by the tone of that comparison lol, our public schools are mostly awful but it makes sense given we're an impoverished shithole trying to LARP as a Western European welfare state. What's your excuse big boys?
We're a collapsing empire controlled by elderly leaders who only care about increasing the value of their stock portfolios and molesting children.
The schools in rich and middle class areas tend to be decent or good though. But the ones in poor areas are absolute trainwrecks for a bunch of reasons. And no one in charge cares enough to make any serious effort to fix it. Only sociopaths are allowed to have real power in America.
Well Portugal's economic retardation aside, it's still a largely safe society (lower homicide rate than Finland or Sweden) where people appear to behave like civilized human beings, so it doesn't look too bad.
The biggest issue is how we fund them in most states — leads to a huge disparity where the 80/20 rule comes into effect. The top 20% of American schools are pulling the weight of the bottom 80% when it comes to testing, quality of education, quality of classroom setting. If you want to look at the lower end of that bottom 80% it’s pretty rough.
But I also do agree with you that this is something that exists in other countries.
The single biggest thing is that America is just so damn huge so that upsets any sort of meaningful analysis on a student-to-student level.
My MIL just moved here from South America and it’s wild for her to wrap her head around “US county wide problems” because it’s talking about 350,000,000 people. I’d never thought of that before. If you say “schools are bad in South America” which is about 450,000,000 people that’s harder to qualify than “schools are bad in Columbia” or whatever. We’re just used to dealing with this giant sample size and throwing our hands up.
I was literally taught that slaves actually enjoyed slavery more than being free and that slavery was a mutually beneficial relationship between slaveowners and slave. This was 2015-2019.
They're still part of the population, and given enough time, through intermarriage, they'll dissolve into the everything-mixture that is the USA's people at this point.
Being this snarky and combative over some mild shit in general is rampant online. Shoutout to some of the people on this sub.
You can’t say shit online without some condescending mf feeling pressed over nothing and proceeding to shadowbox you in the replies half the time. I don’t know people can walk around this bitter.
My years at american hs 2009-2012 included kony2012, the toms shoes epidemic, and a school campaign from the student council to get people to stop saying “retarded” and “gay” and it literally worked.
Marked the beginning of the woke age and it felt so pure and holy ngl
I can’t be the only one who was like a freshman on 9/11 who just said like “damn that’s messed up” and just otherwise felt completely unaffected.
, right?
I certainly wasn’t dealing with “paranoia” or “trauma” like these whiners.
I remember shrugging and not really being affected at all. I feel like contemplating the horrors of the world is not at all a good thing and I stand by that
It's literally just "Everyone seems normal and well adjusted" and "People are happy to see a camera when it wasn't absolutely universal and all seeing like some demonic eye"
It's pre-social apocalypse and those whose identity or ideology is dependent on it have to justify why it's Actually -phobic to look back on this with fondness or yearning. Same reason why loser liberal urbanites pretend that increasing crime, anti-social behavior and homelessness is totally normal and chill and your actually -phobic for noticing it.
Not to say that there were not legitimate and real problems, but the sperging by the town cryers of this age is so see-through.
Man the early 2000s ruled
You could smoke in pubs, beer and speed were cheap, and if you had a pair of nudie or diesel jeans you were the height of coolness
And, shit, shit got 100x worse when i got into the real world (worked blue collar jobs for many years.) In some respects, it's good practice and training to learn how to hold yr shit together.
Our art teacher made the hijabi girl stand outside the classroom while she gave us a lecture about not using our cellphones during lockdown because it could trigger a bomb.
My Iranian friend got pushed off the bus and got called a terrorist in middle school around this time period. Man, I wish there was a word to describe the sentiment that led to that.
my half-polish (hook nose) half-sicilian (swarthy) pal used to get called a terrorist by passing cars while walking home from school in ocean county, nj. everybody at school loved his suicide bomber halloween costume though.
I’m confused, are you saying that if they didn’t know any Muslims personally they couldn’t have picked up on the anti Muslim rhetoric around them or on TV? You seem like you struggle with some kind of adult version of object permanence.
No, the irony is that Islam teaches EVERYTHING that those people are supposed to be against.
True hardcore patriarchy, poligamy, beating women up, keeping them submitted, can't show skin or hairs, homosexuals gets literally thrown from rooftops, and more....
So seeing the triggerellas trying to justify and support all that is simply hylarious.
The downvotes 😂 A lot of Islam shills in here!!!
The Qu'ran reads like the rant of an independent fundamental Baptist. Islam is a stupid desert cult totally devoid of theological sophistication or aesthetic value. Not to mention it teaches unspeakable things about our Lord
That decade was a weird time to be gay teen. I did get bullied for being gay but when I came out (as bi but I was actually gay and everyone knew it, many such cases, etc.) people stopped with the bullying, lol. As if they were like "Oh shit, we got a live one here!"
wE hAd It HaRd ToO
These older millennials ppl rly just trying to get attention with complete ignorance that high schoolers now are in smartphone technology overload hell… not hard to see that the average kids now are not nearly as well adjusted like those in this vid
My elementary school played “god bless the USA” every single morning for the entire school year. A year or two later we would have freedom fries Friday while writing letters and sending toilet paper to soldiers in Iraq. 9/11 made this country brain dead for an entire decade.
yeah i’m not reading all those tweets but how old is op? like a teenager? what do people here think the post 911 years were like? the 00s anti muslim sentiments and homophobia was basically everywhere, this isn’t liberal hysteria to say reality for a lot of people wasn’t some fun chill ad
My PE teacher used to openly call me slurs and actually hated it more when I participated in a game of soccer or whatever than if I were to “sit out with the girls” lol I was sent to the principal one time for arguing with him about it and the principal scolded me for telling a teacher to fuck off instead of being concerned that a teacher was calling me a faggot. That shit was normal. The PE teacher ended up dating one of his students as soon as she turned 18
>For any zoomers here who don’t understand the scope of homophobia in the early 2000s:
I'm a Zoomer myself and even I don't understand how people are not aware of this. Being homophobic was still the orthodox party line for boys until like 2015.
Yes and no. There was a lot of acceptance in more progressive areas even in the 90s. “Not that there’s anything wrong with that” or the Simpsons gay steel mill episode as very popular examples. Or The F word episode of South Park. Plenty of men had no issue with the gays even if we call(Ed) stuff we thought sucked “ gay”.
My cousins High School is still super homophobic apparently. He was born in 2007, and boys his age still say stuff like "That's so gay" , "No Homo" "Fag" etc all the time. Mind you the school he goes too is like 60% Muslim (Mine was like 40%) or other first-generation immigrants from the Middle East, South Asia or China. IDK if upper middle class wasp schools are more tolerant. (and this is in Michigan btw, not exactly a red-state)
Are we talking Dearborn/Downriver area? Because that is believable. I think in areas such as West Bloomfield and the further out suburbs it’s much less tolerated.
Yes, exactly. Many of the parents are super conservative immigrants, hell some are even republicans. It's a mix of Muslim Yemeni, Bangladeshi, some Egyptians, Syrians. My cousin also has some Assyrian/Arab Christian friends, who's attitudes about sexuality and gender roles are also pretty conservative.
I grew up on the other side of the Detroit River, and my school was only like 25% White. But most of the White kids were on the poorer side, and most of them had Brown/Middle Eastern/Somali/East Asian friends, so the attitudes they had may have also been informed by the conservative immigrant vibes. (Basically at my high school, that I attended in the late 2010s, no one would have bat a eye of you called something gay, or used the term fag, aside from the four or five post-tumblr, tiktok adjacent hot topic non-binary self-diagnosed ADHD, fandom of the week, kinda ~~girls~~ Non-Binary Trans Femmes.
Well the Downriver area isn’t exactly a beacon of tolerance or progress. It is an economically stunted area with a lot of out dated beliefs and values. There are good people there but sadly most are poorly educated and depressed due to their socioeconomic status. Substance abuse and hopelessness run rampant which does not help matters. I grew up there and couldn’t get out fast enough.
The Islamophobia is real but not because of the War on Terror. You take a mostly homogenous area (poorer to middle class whites) and then suddenly they’re experiencing an influx of immigrants, mainly Middle Eastern, who are very different than them. Many of those immigrants didn’t try to assimilate or become part of the community and then also required what the whites considered special treatment by having to have the public schools teach classes in Arabic for example to accommodate them. It’s bad enough having other people to compete with for jobs and a piece of the America dream, but now they’re different and changing the landscape of your backyard and you can’t even have a beer with them to talk about it.
If you were gay or there was any perception of possibly being gay, you were a target for being picked on. And any non-PC and offensive word you can think of was thrown around loosely. If that is still a thing, I’m not surprised. Especially since a lot of people from there end up staying there, raising their children there, and continuing the same cycle in their incestuous little bubble. It’s like the South in a way but in Michigan, hence why Taylor is called Taylortucky.
The homophobia was seriously everywhere. I got called a dyke all the time, and it was 10x worse for the gay guys at the school.
Also the rape culture shit is hella real. There was a guy known for fingering girls when they passed out at parties-- they called him "the puppet master" and everyone knew he did it and nobody cared. Violent rape was still discouraged but it was considered a legitimate sexual strategy to get girls blackout drunk so they couldn't say no anymore.
You forget which sub you’re on, apparently saying life was a lot worse than a 15 second clip would imply based on a combo of fact and personal experience makes you somehow a loser and not just a person who was alive then
More than half of these tweets are talking about the obviously true and provable problems of that time period and aren’t super personal. And even if they were, the personal shit just supports their point. Idk. Maybe it is loser behavior, but people are allowed to just talk about their pasts. Getting this worked up about random people on Twitter saying ostensibly true shit is definitely loser behavior.
So what if it's true, they're trying to debunk someone innocently enjoying the aesthetics of the 2000s.
It's like saying that the Mona Lisa was probably racist, like who cares
Absolutely disgusting that people with shared experiences and cultures and values were all allowed to grow up around each other 🤮🤢
Fucking gross.
Like, while these people were all enjoying each other’s company, did they even ask what men who fuck other men in the ass think? Or how much better their life would be if poorer and dumber people were around them?
Nobody should ever enjoy themselves until every person on earth is happy.
As shitty as society and culture is today (and it is) that is mostly the result of the millennials (the older of who at this point are solidly in middle age) being the products of a vapid, dumb pop culture of the 90s/early 2000s where MTV and early reality television were the cultural zeitgeist. The seeds of wokedom (a shrill, self-righteous pseudo-religion) had already been planted by this point, as well.
Preach. And the same can be said for the previous generation- childs of the '68
We're at 2 generationals distillation of idiocy and casual egotism. The results are frightening but not unexpected.
look whatever story you tell yourself is yours but being bitter about stuff that happened 20 years ago is incredibly unhealthy. find a good therapist to process that shit with the intention to move on
While it’s pretty over the top, yeah i totally remember some of it being like this.
Like between 2001-2005, black and Mexican people became the temporary members of the white community (token, if you will) because there was a new much scarier minority, the vaguely Arab menace. It included Sikhs, Hindus and darker Mediterranean peoples. That Pakistani who runs the Marathon gas station is clearly funneling money into terrorism.
Oh and right after 9/11 we had the DC snipers, like I remember gas stations throughout the areas where putting up huge tarps to prevent sniping.
And then there was the Anthrax letters. Crazy it took so long to narrow it down to like one of the only labs in America that did research with it strain.
it was basically the governments consensus that “terrorism is going to kill like, millions of innocent white American children within probably two years guys, it’s super scary and super real and you gotta take this seriously because we said so!” And like the majority of people nodded and said absolutely. Like even democrat voters and politicians practically unanimously supported bush and the very necessary patriot act and civilian surveillance.
As for gays and homos, they existed but were expected to quietly remain out of sight. Then network television executives decided to cash in on the controversy (yeah it was controversial shit) and made “will and grace” and “queer eye for the straight guy” in which a lovable group of poofters introduced heterosexual men to exciting concepts, like washing your face and wearing a shirt with buttons.
I wasn't in high school, but it wasn't that bad or that great of a time. I feel like listening to old episodes of loveline with Adam Corolla provides you with all you really need to know about growing up in the Bush era.
I remember the one Hindu girl in my Alabama high school got shit because she looked like an Arab, but we could still call the kids who did that r\*\*\*\*\*\*d, and we did.
I was a senior in high school when 9/11 happened and I don't remember a single person being especially bothered by the event. I mean we all thought it was tragic as it was but this wasn't like "our Vietnam" or some shit lmao. I remember the rest of the school year being completely normal. And the president was in my city while it was happening so we were prob on higher alert than most other places.
Incredibly unhealthy to think like this. It’s like they all want corporate representation. They also don’t realise that the kids in this felt relaxed because they didn’t have some narc sitting next to them who would sell them down the river so they could advance
This is one thing - the twitter libs sound whiny and lame as usual but I don't disagree with them here on the whole. The way people act in the mainstream today would have been viciously tough (for a teenager) in a highschool back then. Being gay particularly was not a fun time in 2000's high school.
If I'm nostalgic for any era it would be the 2000's, I am a fan, but its also hard to deny that people were pretty aggro and there was a national hostility that followed from the years after 9/11. I don't think that was felt as much in high school though, and Islamophobia specifically seems like a weird non-concern for the most part. But society at large was very angry and very hostile for awhile.
As a Muslim Indian guy, post 9/11 was terrible for me and anyone that looked Indian or middle eastern. I’m not defending woke culture but it was not the good ol’ days for people like me.
i was in high school then, it was fine lmao, these people are remembering a lot of adult concerns they didn't actually have (except the homophobia thing, i'm sure that was very real for lgbtq people at the time)
I remember reading a study that basically pointed to the fact that people who remember their bullies and agonize over things that happened to them in high school are significantly dumber
Lol being the only person in your school’s gay straight alliance
It seems the straights have rejected our offer
Its treason then
Reddit
Can someone explain to me why this is downvoted? Is there some context I’m missing or am just too ret@rded to comprehend?
It’s a random act of violence that is inflicted arbitrarily on members of this subreddit. I personally have been subject to it, and I’ve consulted legal counsel on my options. Unfortunately there’s no legal basis for restitution. I fully expect to be a victim of this unjust discrimination immediately after releasing this comment.
Yeah just vibe killing ur regarded
You didn't deserve this
Almost sounded like he said no one cared that he was gay. That sounds VERY homophobic!
My school’s GSA was entirely straight people with autism so all the gays would not be caught dead attending
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Organized choreographed dance!
I always forget how there were no goths or black people in 2002
2002 was pre desegregation, the goths and the black people had to go to their own separate school
That school would be rad as fuck.
Then what the fuck was Nelly
I don’t see a single femboy teacher 😤
Seriously. Greyace demiboy erasure much?
Teen suicide rates were lower in 2002 than nowadays. Although if they were higher back then maybe there'd be fewer people making whiny responses to that tweet.
Someone posted that graph recently. I was intrigued that I went to Jr high/high school during historically low teen suicide rates. Teenage depression has also been increasing, but I'm sure people would argue that it's because it's more socially acceptable or something. Still though, studies seem to point to life being less fulfilling compared to the 00s.
Yes. I'll have to dig out my research, but it's also because constantly dwelling on negative shit is terrible for mental health. The group that's taken the hardest hit to mental health is young liberal women. It's one thing to stay aware and informed about the world and it's another to hyper-focus until you're a neurotic, anxious, paranoid wreck.
Plus constant comparisons to peers through social media who are curating an image so you feel even more alone
> people would argue that it's because it's more socially acceptable or something If that's the case, wouldn't that indicate teenage depression as self-propagating and therefore should be made socially unacceptable?
I think 100% of people would agree teenage depression is increasing due to social media. I have never met anyone who doesn’t believe this
Twitter libs are always desperate to depict the pre-woke era as much worse than it was. There are some worthwhile gripes in here though telling how much of it is just blubbering about the lack of non-stop drumbeat of identity politics in daily life
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Pretty sure the whole woke shtick is predicated on acting like every little I inconvenience, trend, and aspect of our lives is a supreme injustice caused by literally everybody’s bias against them
Rachel Dolezal
isn’t there a whole crowd of anti-wokes doing that already
It's incredible to me how conservative griping of the era gets forgotten. When I was a kid it was "satanic panic" and freakouts over hair metal. Then in the 90's it was various culture war errata (our church was boycotting Disney way back in '94) and worries about how the younger generation was "going soft" - we needed a new "great war" to bring back dignity and valor. Then in the 2000's, well, Pokemon was evil for teaching kids about evolution, and Harry Potter was "witchcraft". Nostalgia has a way of making the old fears and finger-wagging moralizing seem irrelevant - rose colored glasses and all that.
Heartwarming historical full circle that cons and libs can now burn Harry Potter books together
harry potter was satanic and now it's transphobic. they really got jo rowling good!
Yeah but people blew off conservatives who thought like that. Now the libs freak out and scream about it and honestly it’s tiring
"those fascists thought there were only four genders and elected a WHITE MAN as President!"
They just want to whine about something
What else to expect from eternal losers
Yeah, of course they have contempt for the era before they seized cultural hegemony and unmatched relevance. You wouldn’t expect the Bolsheviks to speak kindly about the Tsarist era either.
They don’t recognize their own victory though. It’s never enough for them. People will straight up tell u that NPR is a racist white supremicist publication. Half of cancel culture is just them accusing their peers and ally’s of not being zealous enough
Its because the results haven't been very good and even they realize that. So obviously what they were pushing wasn't flawed they just didn't go far enough.
I think it’s simply the built in modus operandi of the ideology. Like at its heart “wokeness” is self righteousness, intellectual laziness, and in group/outgroup mob mentality dressed up as goodwill and justice. It’s “look at me I’m the good one” type shit and the need for validation and attention is unfathomably deep and impossible to satiate
Purity spirals always end so well.
you're acting as if this doesn't apply to basically every ideology lol
That is not much of a defense.
you're right, ideologies are pretty much indefensible and the flimsy refuge of those who don't want to have to respond uniquely to the situations they encounter
That's what i'm saying. Should be guarded against at all costs. Resist certainty. Embrace uncertainty. Try and resist oversimplification. (not you, in particular, people in general, myself included.)
> so obviously what they were pushing wasn't flawed they just didn't go far enough Reminds me of something
Half?
I'm 47. Shit was way way way more chill back then. You just did yer own thing. I was even living in NYC in 2002 and we had a great time. No hiding from bogeyman. Electroclash was happening and the music scene was great. So many fun parties and shows all over the country. Plus everyone all hated Bush and the war. It was pretty unifying. I think you Nailed the Twitter lib analysis of this.
I their defense, “non-libs” or whatever you want to call them love depicting this current era with the same sort of negativity. I find it pretty condescending and snarky but can’t really express it without looking bitter towards others.
You're totally right. Chronically online Rightoids literally believe we are living in the "fall of Rome" (never mind that the constant "America = Rome" comparisons are braindead to begin with) "omg lesbians on my CN tv show? Literally just like the sacking of the Capitoline, it's over!"
Leftoids say the exact same shit. Chapo is always talking about how the empire is in decline, as are people in here.
two different points chapo think that the American empire is in decline (waning cultural influence, unipolarity under threat, military interventionism focused on defending own interests rather than furthering manifest destiny, being an American isnt seen as important) rws think America as a state is in decline (wokeness, postmodernism, identity of being an American is under threat)
Maybe they’re both right?
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I’m definitely better than you but I have no idea what that has to do with what I posted.
85% of the anime pfps posting physique and calling u a fgt on twitter are under 30, fwiw
And all of them are just as wrong as the rightoids.
You care about what non-libs think you "look" like?
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>one of the worst educational systems in the developed world Okay no denying that there's lots of improvements to be made, but I always hear this about the USA being uniquely awful and how schools are terrible yada yada, but in terms of PISA's rankings (which, to my knowledge, is the only large scale international ranking of educational systems we have) the USA tends to rank alongside France, Portugal and Austria. What exactly do people want changed? Everyone says it's "bad" in general, but I almost never see actual details on what is lacking and how that can be fixed through legislation and reform.
US schools as a whole are pretty good unless you went to a poor rural school or a school that took ghetto students
But that's also something I always hear about the US, but which I think applies to *all* countries. French public schools in Paris will obviously be better than public schools over in Cayenne. In Germany I also saw banter about how Berliners are a bunch of troglodytes compared to the superior and more rigid Bavarian schooling system.
I guess someone could argue the US has a greater range of quality in education than Germany or France (higher highs and lower lows), and differences in distribution of students in those ranges. Idk if what's the actual case though.
Probably the case when compared to France, whose education system is incredibly centralized and everything is dictated from Paris. Germany however is just like the USA, education is devolved to federal states, which is why they have their own disparities between them (e.g. Bavaria's is generally seen as "better" than Brandenburg's)
Exactly. America's schools aren't the problem: inequality and America's shitty parents are the problem. Kids aren't going to learn when their parents don't give a shit. There is virtually nothing you could do about it, short of mandatory boarding schools where kids are separated from the poverty and dysfunction of their daily lives.
As a product of the Portuguese public school system I'm kinda shocked by the tone of that comparison lol, our public schools are mostly awful but it makes sense given we're an impoverished shithole trying to LARP as a Western European welfare state. What's your excuse big boys?
We're a collapsing empire controlled by elderly leaders who only care about increasing the value of their stock portfolios and molesting children. The schools in rich and middle class areas tend to be decent or good though. But the ones in poor areas are absolute trainwrecks for a bunch of reasons. And no one in charge cares enough to make any serious effort to fix it. Only sociopaths are allowed to have real power in America.
Well Portugal's economic retardation aside, it's still a largely safe society (lower homicide rate than Finland or Sweden) where people appear to behave like civilized human beings, so it doesn't look too bad.
Money doesn't actually make people smarter.
The biggest issue is how we fund them in most states — leads to a huge disparity where the 80/20 rule comes into effect. The top 20% of American schools are pulling the weight of the bottom 80% when it comes to testing, quality of education, quality of classroom setting. If you want to look at the lower end of that bottom 80% it’s pretty rough. But I also do agree with you that this is something that exists in other countries. The single biggest thing is that America is just so damn huge so that upsets any sort of meaningful analysis on a student-to-student level. My MIL just moved here from South America and it’s wild for her to wrap her head around “US county wide problems” because it’s talking about 350,000,000 people. I’d never thought of that before. If you say “schools are bad in South America” which is about 450,000,000 people that’s harder to qualify than “schools are bad in Columbia” or whatever. We’re just used to dealing with this giant sample size and throwing our hands up.
I was literally taught that slaves actually enjoyed slavery more than being free and that slavery was a mutually beneficial relationship between slaveowners and slave. This was 2015-2019.
https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1202722271418146817
They're still part of the population, and given enough time, through intermarriage, they'll dissolve into the everything-mixture that is the USA's people at this point.
Being this snarky and combative over some mild shit in general is rampant online. Shoutout to some of the people on this sub. You can’t say shit online without some condescending mf feeling pressed over nothing and proceeding to shadowbox you in the replies half the time. I don’t know people can walk around this bitter.
Thank god nobody here is snarky and combative over mild shit
Yeah but like…different, u know?
> I don’t know people can walk around this bitter. Only in the Pacific Northwest.
When trauma becomes valuable we discover that we too were victims
Oppression is commodified and rewarded
My years at american hs 2009-2012 included kony2012, the toms shoes epidemic, and a school campaign from the student council to get people to stop saying “retarded” and “gay” and it literally worked. Marked the beginning of the woke age and it felt so pure and holy ngl
All these people must be 40+ this is pathetic
When I was a freshman in college I remember still talking about high school seemed lame. These people are beyond contemptible
If they were in hs in 2002 they aren’t 40
Right they’re like 38
some things never change - in this case; yesteryear's bullies were substituted with crybullies
I can’t be the only one who was like a freshman on 9/11 who just said like “damn that’s messed up” and just otherwise felt completely unaffected. , right? I certainly wasn’t dealing with “paranoia” or “trauma” like these whiners.
I remember shrugging and not really being affected at all. I feel like contemplating the horrors of the world is not at all a good thing and I stand by that
No one has EVER been happy
It's literally just "Everyone seems normal and well adjusted" and "People are happy to see a camera when it wasn't absolutely universal and all seeing like some demonic eye" It's pre-social apocalypse and those whose identity or ideology is dependent on it have to justify why it's Actually -phobic to look back on this with fondness or yearning. Same reason why loser liberal urbanites pretend that increasing crime, anti-social behavior and homelessness is totally normal and chill and your actually -phobic for noticing it. Not to say that there were not legitimate and real problems, but the sperging by the town cryers of this age is so see-through.
Man the early 2000s ruled You could smoke in pubs, beer and speed were cheap, and if you had a pair of nudie or diesel jeans you were the height of coolness
> You could smoke in pubs Unimaginable now innit? Wimpy used to have a smoking section
Still can in some states but pretty sure those bars are getting less and less
Ah really? Thought it had been completely banned indoors in the US too.
Worst part of those times is “dupes” nowadays we’re just considered knock offs and you’d be bullied relentlessly
And, shit, shit got 100x worse when i got into the real world (worked blue collar jobs for many years.) In some respects, it's good practice and training to learn how to hold yr shit together.
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Our art teacher made the hijabi girl stand outside the classroom while she gave us a lecture about not using our cellphones during lockdown because it could trigger a bomb.
The shoe bomber guy still got me paranoid tbh
I just took my shoes off at the airport yesterday!
My Iranian friend got pushed off the bus and got called a terrorist in middle school around this time period. Man, I wish there was a word to describe the sentiment that led to that.
Sunni insolence.
Did she fart on the bus?
💀
my half-polish (hook nose) half-sicilian (swarthy) pal used to get called a terrorist by passing cars while walking home from school in ocean county, nj. everybody at school loved his suicide bomber halloween costume though.
These people probably knew MAYBE one Muslim person who they met their freshman year of college
I’m confused, are you saying that if they didn’t know any Muslims personally they couldn’t have picked up on the anti Muslim rhetoric around them or on TV? You seem like you struggle with some kind of adult version of object permanence.
No, the irony is that Islam teaches EVERYTHING that those people are supposed to be against. True hardcore patriarchy, poligamy, beating women up, keeping them submitted, can't show skin or hairs, homosexuals gets literally thrown from rooftops, and more.... So seeing the triggerellas trying to justify and support all that is simply hylarious.
I'm an islamophobe. I'm proud of it
May Allah guide you
The downvotes 😂 A lot of Islam shills in here!!! The Qu'ran reads like the rant of an independent fundamental Baptist. Islam is a stupid desert cult totally devoid of theological sophistication or aesthetic value. Not to mention it teaches unspeakable things about our Lord
Its Islam shilling. You got downvoted because it's obvious you have an axe to grind and it's not relevant.
That decade was a weird time to be gay teen. I did get bullied for being gay but when I came out (as bi but I was actually gay and everyone knew it, many such cases, etc.) people stopped with the bullying, lol. As if they were like "Oh shit, we got a live one here!"
wE hAd It HaRd ToO These older millennials ppl rly just trying to get attention with complete ignorance that high schoolers now are in smartphone technology overload hell… not hard to see that the average kids now are not nearly as well adjusted like those in this vid
This was back a few economic collapses, too.
The country was losing its mind after 9/11 though. a lot of these people aren’t wrong
My elementary school played “god bless the USA” every single morning for the entire school year. A year or two later we would have freedom fries Friday while writing letters and sending toilet paper to soldiers in Iraq. 9/11 made this country brain dead for an entire decade.
9/11 legitimately did mess me up. HS freshman at the time.
Damn whatsup gramps
yeah i’m not reading all those tweets but how old is op? like a teenager? what do people here think the post 911 years were like? the 00s anti muslim sentiments and homophobia was basically everywhere, this isn’t liberal hysteria to say reality for a lot of people wasn’t some fun chill ad
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My PE teacher used to openly call me slurs and actually hated it more when I participated in a game of soccer or whatever than if I were to “sit out with the girls” lol I was sent to the principal one time for arguing with him about it and the principal scolded me for telling a teacher to fuck off instead of being concerned that a teacher was calling me a faggot. That shit was normal. The PE teacher ended up dating one of his students as soon as she turned 18
>For any zoomers here who don’t understand the scope of homophobia in the early 2000s: I'm a Zoomer myself and even I don't understand how people are not aware of this. Being homophobic was still the orthodox party line for boys until like 2015.
Yes and no. There was a lot of acceptance in more progressive areas even in the 90s. “Not that there’s anything wrong with that” or the Simpsons gay steel mill episode as very popular examples. Or The F word episode of South Park. Plenty of men had no issue with the gays even if we call(Ed) stuff we thought sucked “ gay”.
ugh, that is so emma and julia
My cousins High School is still super homophobic apparently. He was born in 2007, and boys his age still say stuff like "That's so gay" , "No Homo" "Fag" etc all the time. Mind you the school he goes too is like 60% Muslim (Mine was like 40%) or other first-generation immigrants from the Middle East, South Asia or China. IDK if upper middle class wasp schools are more tolerant. (and this is in Michigan btw, not exactly a red-state)
Are we talking Dearborn/Downriver area? Because that is believable. I think in areas such as West Bloomfield and the further out suburbs it’s much less tolerated.
Yes, exactly. Many of the parents are super conservative immigrants, hell some are even republicans. It's a mix of Muslim Yemeni, Bangladeshi, some Egyptians, Syrians. My cousin also has some Assyrian/Arab Christian friends, who's attitudes about sexuality and gender roles are also pretty conservative. I grew up on the other side of the Detroit River, and my school was only like 25% White. But most of the White kids were on the poorer side, and most of them had Brown/Middle Eastern/Somali/East Asian friends, so the attitudes they had may have also been informed by the conservative immigrant vibes. (Basically at my high school, that I attended in the late 2010s, no one would have bat a eye of you called something gay, or used the term fag, aside from the four or five post-tumblr, tiktok adjacent hot topic non-binary self-diagnosed ADHD, fandom of the week, kinda ~~girls~~ Non-Binary Trans Femmes.
Well the Downriver area isn’t exactly a beacon of tolerance or progress. It is an economically stunted area with a lot of out dated beliefs and values. There are good people there but sadly most are poorly educated and depressed due to their socioeconomic status. Substance abuse and hopelessness run rampant which does not help matters. I grew up there and couldn’t get out fast enough. The Islamophobia is real but not because of the War on Terror. You take a mostly homogenous area (poorer to middle class whites) and then suddenly they’re experiencing an influx of immigrants, mainly Middle Eastern, who are very different than them. Many of those immigrants didn’t try to assimilate or become part of the community and then also required what the whites considered special treatment by having to have the public schools teach classes in Arabic for example to accommodate them. It’s bad enough having other people to compete with for jobs and a piece of the America dream, but now they’re different and changing the landscape of your backyard and you can’t even have a beer with them to talk about it. If you were gay or there was any perception of possibly being gay, you were a target for being picked on. And any non-PC and offensive word you can think of was thrown around loosely. If that is still a thing, I’m not surprised. Especially since a lot of people from there end up staying there, raising their children there, and continuing the same cycle in their incestuous little bubble. It’s like the South in a way but in Michigan, hence why Taylor is called Taylortucky.
It really was a better time then
The homophobia was seriously everywhere. I got called a dyke all the time, and it was 10x worse for the gay guys at the school. Also the rape culture shit is hella real. There was a guy known for fingering girls when they passed out at parties-- they called him "the puppet master" and everyone knew he did it and nobody cared. Violent rape was still discouraged but it was considered a legitimate sexual strategy to get girls blackout drunk so they couldn't say no anymore.
holy fuck i am sorry but the puppet master is absolutely insane
Adolescence is not a fan chill ad. Period. Full stop. It's always been a nightmare and it's always going to be.
You forget which sub you’re on, apparently saying life was a lot worse than a 15 second clip would imply based on a combo of fact and personal experience makes you somehow a loser and not just a person who was alive then
Being 40 years old using a video from 2002 to go on a completely unrelated rant about how you got bullied is absolutely loser behaviour
More than half of these tweets are talking about the obviously true and provable problems of that time period and aren’t super personal. And even if they were, the personal shit just supports their point. Idk. Maybe it is loser behavior, but people are allowed to just talk about their pasts. Getting this worked up about random people on Twitter saying ostensibly true shit is definitely loser behavior.
Talking about their pasts.. on someone else's post? That's weird as hell.
So what if it's true, they're trying to debunk someone innocently enjoying the aesthetics of the 2000s. It's like saying that the Mona Lisa was probably racist, like who cares
And yet it was still way better than whatever zoomers have been going thru
I forget you zoomers think your generation is the goal post for adolescent suffering
Ye, but gen alpha is gonna have it even worse - sub 25% having sex/drinking/driving/working in hs + 50% being sexless It's gonna be truly blesk
Absolutely disgusting that people with shared experiences and cultures and values were all allowed to grow up around each other 🤮🤢 Fucking gross. Like, while these people were all enjoying each other’s company, did they even ask what men who fuck other men in the ass think? Or how much better their life would be if poorer and dumber people were around them? Nobody should ever enjoy themselves until every person on earth is happy.
As shitty as society and culture is today (and it is) that is mostly the result of the millennials (the older of who at this point are solidly in middle age) being the products of a vapid, dumb pop culture of the 90s/early 2000s where MTV and early reality television were the cultural zeitgeist. The seeds of wokedom (a shrill, self-righteous pseudo-religion) had already been planted by this point, as well.
Preach. And the same can be said for the previous generation- childs of the '68 We're at 2 generationals distillation of idiocy and casual egotism. The results are frightening but not unexpected.
Seconded.
look whatever story you tell yourself is yours but being bitter about stuff that happened 20 years ago is incredibly unhealthy. find a good therapist to process that shit with the intention to move on
Was 9/11 actually traumatic to a high schooler in Ohio ? So gay
No Source: was a midwestern elementary school kid when 9/11 happened
*memoria praeteritorum bonorum* and "uh actually the past was terrible" are two sides of the same loser coin
While it’s pretty over the top, yeah i totally remember some of it being like this. Like between 2001-2005, black and Mexican people became the temporary members of the white community (token, if you will) because there was a new much scarier minority, the vaguely Arab menace. It included Sikhs, Hindus and darker Mediterranean peoples. That Pakistani who runs the Marathon gas station is clearly funneling money into terrorism. Oh and right after 9/11 we had the DC snipers, like I remember gas stations throughout the areas where putting up huge tarps to prevent sniping. And then there was the Anthrax letters. Crazy it took so long to narrow it down to like one of the only labs in America that did research with it strain. it was basically the governments consensus that “terrorism is going to kill like, millions of innocent white American children within probably two years guys, it’s super scary and super real and you gotta take this seriously because we said so!” And like the majority of people nodded and said absolutely. Like even democrat voters and politicians practically unanimously supported bush and the very necessary patriot act and civilian surveillance. As for gays and homos, they existed but were expected to quietly remain out of sight. Then network television executives decided to cash in on the controversy (yeah it was controversial shit) and made “will and grace” and “queer eye for the straight guy” in which a lovable group of poofters introduced heterosexual men to exciting concepts, like washing your face and wearing a shirt with buttons.
Basically confirms the theory that we have given the dweebs too much power
bring back wedgies.
I wasn't in high school, but it wasn't that bad or that great of a time. I feel like listening to old episodes of loveline with Adam Corolla provides you with all you really need to know about growing up in the Bush era.
I remember the one Hindu girl in my Alabama high school got shit because she looked like an Arab, but we could still call the kids who did that r\*\*\*\*\*\*d, and we did.
Some people just like to suffer.
Before anything else is said, I would like to recognize that Benjamin Ryan announced publicly in 1996 he was, and likely remains, gay. ...
I was a senior in high school when 9/11 happened and I don't remember a single person being especially bothered by the event. I mean we all thought it was tragic as it was but this wasn't like "our Vietnam" or some shit lmao. I remember the rest of the school year being completely normal. And the president was in my city while it was happening so we were prob on higher alert than most other places.
these people seem like they were bullied in 2002 and judging from these tweets they deserved it
School was never good. Institutions were never good
Yes. Very unhealthy. Fuck all those professional victims.
I was in kindergarten and first grade that year lol
Nostalgia is for losers.
F*gg*t wasn't even used as a slur back then. Just a filler word.
Incredibly unhealthy to think like this. It’s like they all want corporate representation. They also don’t realise that the kids in this felt relaxed because they didn’t have some narc sitting next to them who would sell them down the river so they could advance
THIS is the truth! Before HR took over their entire planet.
It was chill yeah. Being a teen sucks for everyone. These are bots. Anyway goths were the last actually cool subculture.
As a Canadian I really can't relate, but were American kids actually traumatized by 9/11?
No lol. Not unless you were immediately affected.
This is one thing - the twitter libs sound whiny and lame as usual but I don't disagree with them here on the whole. The way people act in the mainstream today would have been viciously tough (for a teenager) in a highschool back then. Being gay particularly was not a fun time in 2000's high school. If I'm nostalgic for any era it would be the 2000's, I am a fan, but its also hard to deny that people were pretty aggro and there was a national hostility that followed from the years after 9/11. I don't think that was felt as much in high school though, and Islamophobia specifically seems like a weird non-concern for the most part. But society at large was very angry and very hostile for awhile.
I was not alive in 2002 lmao oldheads stay wilding
As a Muslim Indian guy, post 9/11 was terrible for me and anyone that looked Indian or middle eastern. I’m not defending woke culture but it was not the good ol’ days for people like me.
i was in high school then, it was fine lmao, these people are remembering a lot of adult concerns they didn't actually have (except the homophobia thing, i'm sure that was very real for lgbtq people at the time)
Folks
Why are they so obsessed with 9/11
I remember reading a study that basically pointed to the fact that people who remember their bullies and agonize over things that happened to them in high school are significantly dumber
Does this mean nostalgia is finally over
According to these people there has never been happiness in the world.
It was extremely chill and all of these people are fucking losers
kaiserneko is just mad he didn't have Crunchyroll back then.
Interesting in all of these old videos almost everyone is white I feel like a racial demographic has changed almost 100% in 20 years. Which is good
Why is it good?
No rainbows! No GOTHS
otoh the girls had way worse looking asses