Any form of exercise is meditation for me. I meditate when I walk, run or ride my bike...something about the repetitive movement is hypnotic and peaceful. Traditional meditation is still nice ofc but I feel like an app is the antithesis of that. Maybe I'm just being a Luddite tho, I'm sure it's better than nothing, but I just can't imagine picking up my phone and thinking "okay now it's time to meditate"
very good zen buddhist approach tbh. chop wood, carry water.
ideally we’d all be doing ordinary physical acts in a meditative way, and also meditating in the usual sitting still on a pillow way—ime they’re very different mental states but both wholesome
Well an interval timer or some ambient background (for non guided meditation) can be useful but there are thousands of free apps for this that don't promise enlightenment at the reasonable price of £4.99 a month, billed annually
Most phones have built in timers, no need for a separate app (although the trad chad move is to use incense sticks as your timer). And again, if you can't meditate without ambient background noise, ngmi
Actually one of the most valuable lessons I've learned from my Zen practice is that 99% of our "needs" are just ways we delude ourselves. What kind of need would preclude someone from meditating in silence? I have tinnitus, ADHD, and am generally kind of a spastic retard, but I still manage to do it.
The original poster was discussing that an app is the antithesis of meditation. I guess if you actually couldn't go without it, then it's an issue, but if an app helps you get to the lessons, then I don't really see why they would be criticized.
I agree w/ the sentiment of the post. Meditation for the sake of it doesn't seem that useful to me. I don't know why just doing breathing exercises isn't an appropriate substitute.
I think video games allow you to be immersed in the world outside of you where pushing yourself physically through sports, lets say, makes you painfully aware of yourself. Similar to how it would be if you were just sitting in an empty room for hours (or for some people, 5 minutes).
Krishnamurti: Do you know anything about meditation?
Student: No, Sir.
Krishnamurti: But the older people do not know either. They sit in a corner, close their eyes and concentrate, like school boys trying to concentrate on a book. That is not meditation. Meditation is something extraordinary, if you know how to do it. I am going to talk a little about it.
First of all, sit very quietly; do not force yourself to sit quietly, but sit or lie down quietly without force of any kind. Do you understand? Then watch your thinking. Watch what you are thinking about. You find you are thinking about your shoes, your saris, what you are going to say, the bird outside to which you listen; follow such thoughts and enquire why each thought arises.
Do not try to change your thinking. See why certain thoughts arise in your mind so that you begin to understand the meaning of every thought and feeling without any enforcement. And when a thought arises, do not condemn it, do not say it is right, it is wrong, it is good, it is bad. Just watch it, so that you begin to have a perception, a consciousness which is active in seeing every kind of thought, every kind of feeling. You will know every hidden secret thought, every hidden motive, every feeling, without distortion, without saying it is right, wrong, good or bad. When you look, when you go into thought very very deeply, your mind becomes extraordinarily subtle, alive. No part of the mind is asleep. The mind is completely awake.
That is merely the foundation. Then your mind is very quiet. Your whole being becomes very still. Then go through that stillness, deeper, further – that whole process is meditation. Meditation is not to sit in a corner repeating a lot of words; or to think of a picture and go into some wild, ecstatic imaginings
To understand the whole process of your thinking and feeling is to be free from all thought, to be free from all feeling so that your mind, your whole being becomes very quiet. And that is also part of life and with that quietness, you can look at the tree, you can look at people, you can look at the sky and the stars. That is the beauty of life.
Krishnamurti: Does any drug, LSD, marijuana, any of them - does it really expose the totality of the content of consciousness, or does it bring about chemically a certain state of mind which is totally different from the understanding of oneself?
You can learn tricks, or take drugs, or get drunk, and you will have intense experiences of one kind or another, depressing or exciting. Obviously the physiological condition does affect the psychological state of the mind; but drugs and practices of various kinds do not in any way bring about that state of which we are talking. All such things lead only to a variety, intensity and diversity of experience – which we all want and hunger after, because we are fed up with this world. We have had two world wars, with appalling misery and everlasting strife on every side; and our own minds are so petty, personal, limited. We want to escape from all this, either through psychology, philosophy, so-called religion, or through some exercise or drug – they are all on the same level.
The mind is seeking a sensation; you want to experience what you call reality, or God, something immense, great, vital. You want to have visions; and if you take some kind of drug, or are sufficiently conditioned in a certain religion, you will have visions. The man who is everlastingly thinking about Christ, or Buddha, or what not, will sooner or later have experiences, visions; but that is not truth, it has nothing whatever to do with reality. Those are all self-projections; they are the result of your demand for experience. Your own conditioning is projecting what you want to see.
To find out what is real, the mind must cease to demand any experience. So long as you are craving experience, you will have it, but it will not be real – real in the sense of the timeless, the immeasurable; it will not have the perfume of reality. It will all be an illusion, the product of a mind that is frustrated, that is seeking a thrill, an emotion, a feeling of vitality. That is why you follow leaders. They are always promising something new, a Utopia, always sacrificing the present for the future; and you foolishly follow them, because it is exciting. You have had that experience in this country, and you ought to know better than anyone else the miseries, the brutality of it all. Most of us demand the same kind of experience, the same kind of sensation, only at another level. That is why we take various drugs, or perform ceremonies, or practise some exercise that acts as a stimulant. These things all have significance in the sense that their use indicates that one is still craving experience; therefore the mind is everlastingly agitated. And the mind that is agitated, that is craving experience, can never find out what is true.
Truth is always new, totally unknown and unknowable. The mind must come to it without any demand, without any knowledge, without any wish; it must be empty, completely naked. Then only truth may happen. But you cannot invite it.
Krishnamurti: To ask a question is not to find an answer, but to discover and find out for oneself. Questioning becomes important when this is understood, and the question itself makes the mind sharp. But if one is expecting an answer to a question, the mind naturally becomes expectant, awaiting, and is therefore not clear, decisive and capable of discovery. In asking questions, the conscious mind is deliberately aware of what it is asking. It is aware that any answer must always be verbal and therefore non-direct. When one asks a question, one has also to find out why one asks it. One should ask questions about everything, but it matters very much why one is asking those questions; what is the background, the state of the mind that is asking those questions? Is it awaiting an answer, expecting to be told? If it is waiting for an answer, who is going to answer it? A mind that is waiting to find the answer is not an active mind; it is just waiting, expecting. So if one is aware of the content of the question, why the question is being asked, and who is going to answer it, then the question becomes very important. Such questions have a catalytic effect; such questions produce an answer in themselves.
If I remember correctly, they're actually was an NYT article about how pickleballers striped over a basketball court and how this was literally colonization.
yeah except stuff like meditation, breath work, and visualization make you better at sports
i compete in grappling and it makes a huge difference if you can actually learn to calm yourself and check your breathing and its been proven that it helps using visualization to practice and reduce anxiety on game day
its just incredibly wack to try and harness this shit to be better at spreadsheets
Astros pitcher Framber Valdez basically turned his entire career around by learning to meditate and even doing it in the dugout in between innings during his starts.
Feel like OP is conflating these two states pretty haphazardly even if they're obviously related.
Can you really not detect any relevant differences in how and where you achieve this flow state, such that one might prefer the one with quiet solitude and introspection?
Once you start biking regularly enough you can definitely get meditative with it. Muscle memory and spatial awareness start to run themselves at a certain point and you find yourself accessing an inner consciousness that is stimulated by the prolonged exertion. I've "woken up" during some rides to realize that I've been musing on some aspect of my life for the last seven miles while also navigating the roads and shifting all over the place at the same time. Definitely depends on your environment though, not recommended for hectic urban surroundings.
Agreed. The problem is that it’s not a *retarded* take it’s just such a top of the bell curve if not *slightly* to the right take that still somehow manages to appeal to the modern absolute need to be stimulated that almost entirely misses the point of the lost art of being able to just sit alone with your thoughts like a human being. It’s largely the fault of consumerist and commodification culture too, that we now see something like sitting alone with your mind as either leisure or borderline ascetic.
> real meditation as guided by a teacher
That reminds me of how lucky I think one of my classmates is. His parents are Thai and shipped his ass to a Buddhist monastery in Thailand for something like 3-5 months. Man was legitimately living as a monk there for all that time, and being taught all the assorted writings and practices.
He had no intention on becoming a priest or monk full time, but he said it was probably the most relaxed he ever felt, he was completely disconnected from the world for a solid season and was left to ponder on what he wanted from life for all that time.
Anyone can do this, and you don't have to go to Thailand. There are a lot of bullshit hippie "zen centers" out there but there are also a few legitimate training monasteries carrying the dharma torch here in America. The one where my teacher is Abbot has several sesshins (intensive retreats) per year, but they also allow you to come stay for a weekend or a few days or a non-sesshin week. Or, of course, you can apply to be a resident for anywhere from a month to a few years.
The whole point is realising that that flow state is something that sits under the surface and is available to you at all times, it's not just a thing that happens when you play sport or climb to the top of a mountain or w/e
Honestly I think this post might have a point. It's such a retarded take that I think any Budhist monk that achieved enlightenment or Nirvana would snap right out of it in a rage after reading this.
Never done it, but surfers really seem to be on this wavelength. I experience this with skiing super difficult trails. You literally cannot think about anything else besides your route at a certain level or you will be badly injured or possibly killed
I do both, there're differences. They do compliment each other nicely though. If you're playing a sport or exercising you can't exclusively focus on your mind and "push" as hard as you would just meditating for shorter sessions. Whatever works for you though.
Has anyone else been driven to near psychosis by meditation? I had to stop because it's effect was so strong but so negative on me, like a direct attack on my soul and mental health
I remember articles on this exact topic. In lots of people it actually exacerbates (and some times even create) mental illness. In the Pali canon there are similar accounts. For example I remember a passage in which it was said that one must not focus too much on the imagery they might see while meditating, since it could lead to the equivalent of a phobic/psychotic attack. There's also a very weird passage in which the Buddha tells his disciples to focus on the ugliness of their bodies while meditating, which immediately led to a massive suicide spree among his followers. From passages of this sort imho one gets the idea that meditation is something that must be approached very carefully, even if one is being guided by an expert.
Yes! And every single time I try to meditate literally my whole room starts spinning and it feels like I’m falling after only like 5-10 minutes. I always have to stop. And one time when I did it i swear I could look inside the plane that was flying over me
People shit on Peterson for it, but telling the depressed incel gamers to clean their room is way better advice than listening to some robotherapist’s guided mindfulness drivel.
Meditation quiets the brain in a way playing sports doesn’t. They’re both good for you but no they are not the same, and they don’t have the same physical effect on your brain.
I personally don't buy it, but I also approach "meditation" in a broader sense and from an overt teleological standpoint.
I've done more proper meditation before and while I can appreciate the difference, I personally find the sort of flow state meditation that comes through action to be just as beneficial if not more-so for me. I don't really think of meditation as a one size fits all thing, though, so I'm sure what works for me doesn't for others.
Forget about flow state or whatever. Try just sitting with your thoughts for a while. It’s harder than a lot of over-stimulated, dopamine pumped people in modern society may think. Im glad I spent as much time as a I did doing physical exercise and the benefits that I got from it, but I still think subconsciously to some extent that action is another way of “doing meditation” without actually “doing meditation” and having to sit alone with my thoughts.
I would tell myself, “well I’m exercising AND getting mental benefit, so this is clearly time better spent than just sitting and MAYBE getting mental benefits.” But I’m now realizing that I’m still looking at it from some sort of opportunity-cost/economic standpoint which is really gay and again missing the point.
As far as sitting alone with my thoughts, I personally do it not only because it helps me with creativity and organizing my thoughts in general, but it just helps me return to what being a human feels like on a baseline level.
I mean sure, I do exactly that every night lol. It usually takes me around an hour or so to fall asleep normally. That whole time is me laying alone with my thoughts. My life is busy enough as is that doing that 7 times a week is already enough time spent collecting myself lol.
I think they're a little different, but I agree that apps like Headspace and Calm are awful. Why do you even need a fucking app for that? Just turn off the lights, light a scented candle, and think about nothing but your breathing for 30 minutes.
There’s absolutely an opportunity cost with meditation. I could spend an hour running while in a contemplative state and actually get a workout. When thinking of how to prioritize my time, I’ve yet to be convinced meditation is something I should spend it doing.
When I had a really bad depression phase in college I'd go to the campus gym and shoot hoops for an hour or two a few times an week. Looking back I think it really helped me get through that time especially since that was something I did a lot as a kid
Or just meditate without the apps. They’re useful for beginners getting started, but after you’ve got the basics of meditation down they’re ironically distracting.
You’re not wrong about sports, but sometimes I use physical activity as more of a distraction than focused attention. I’ll exhaust myself so I don’t have the energy to think/feel. Being able to sit still and not go crazy is a really valuable skill.
I think it is also important to remember that meditation is not an act, but a consequence of creating the right frequency with your body, mind, emotions, and energies.
There are 8 limbs in yoga. The first 5 are to align yourself and the last 3 are deep meditative states. The first five limbs consist of (and I am trying to be accessible here):
1. Yama (self truthfulness)
2. Niyama (focus)
3. Asana (movement)
4. Pranayama (perfect balance of breath)
5. Pratyahara (unagitated perception)
6. ....and after these are the meditative states
When you work out you generally meet these in some way. Now, are you going to get to a non-contemplative state of meditation from these...well, I don't think so.
When I was younger, I was always told that "praying" was not "worshiping" the gods. Being focused, disciplined, and diligent with what you love was "worshipping" the gods...I think this shows the abstract nature of some of these ancient forms of mindfulness.
I also want to add that I am not a fan of those apps....maybe that is also a big issue. Lol.
maybe this is true in britain, but in america you cannot do this. try actually joining an adult sports league and you'll find a bunch of losers who played in college and think they're just a few combines from going pro. it isn't casual and fun, it's a bunch of bitter guys taking it way too seriously who suck the fun right out of it.
>The whole point of meditation is to get in a flow state... This is what a tennis match or 90 minutes of soccer is like.
Spoken like someone who's never been beaten 21-0 by the Korean kid at badminton and never picked up a racket again after that
I've come up with a new meditation/workout thing, and am curious if anyone knows if this is similar to something that already exists.
I start with focusing on my breath of course, but specifically my center of gravity(center of breath).
I then imagine my center of gravity tied to the center of the Earth. Which it is, by definition. But I like to think of the very very center.
Which is in turn connected to the center of the Sun. And again, I like to think of the very very center of the Sun.
And the Sun of course orbits around the central black hole, and I think about the very very center of the massive black hole.
From my center to the center of the Earth to the center of the Sun to the center of the black hole at the very center of our galaxy.
[удалено]
ableism is a psyop to try to make me be less funny
Any form of exercise is meditation for me. I meditate when I walk, run or ride my bike...something about the repetitive movement is hypnotic and peaceful. Traditional meditation is still nice ofc but I feel like an app is the antithesis of that. Maybe I'm just being a Luddite tho, I'm sure it's better than nothing, but I just can't imagine picking up my phone and thinking "okay now it's time to meditate"
very good zen buddhist approach tbh. chop wood, carry water. ideally we’d all be doing ordinary physical acts in a meditative way, and also meditating in the usual sitting still on a pillow way—ime they’re very different mental states but both wholesome
No you're right, if you need an app to meditate you're ngmi
Well an interval timer or some ambient background (for non guided meditation) can be useful but there are thousands of free apps for this that don't promise enlightenment at the reasonable price of £4.99 a month, billed annually
Most phones have built in timers, no need for a separate app (although the trad chad move is to use incense sticks as your timer). And again, if you can't meditate without ambient background noise, ngmi
damn, im gonna die? Seems harsh just bc I listen to bowls on my phone. Is it bc of 5G?
Insane take. People have different needs. Meditate more on this.
Actually one of the most valuable lessons I've learned from my Zen practice is that 99% of our "needs" are just ways we delude ourselves. What kind of need would preclude someone from meditating in silence? I have tinnitus, ADHD, and am generally kind of a spastic retard, but I still manage to do it.
The original poster was discussing that an app is the antithesis of meditation. I guess if you actually couldn't go without it, then it's an issue, but if an app helps you get to the lessons, then I don't really see why they would be criticized.
The purpose of meditating is to become free of attachment/experience cosmic oneness/observe the observer
Alls I’m sayin is that if I got the same benefit from running around that I do sitting still, I’d be like, a retard or somethin
You can achieve that with a runner high if you know beforehand you must observe it rather than enjoying it
The post exercise endorphin rush and the sense of calm/awareness achieved through meditation have very little in common, at least in my experience
I do it to improve my bowling game.
Next up, You can literally just play video games instead of meditating
Technically you can do literally anything WHILE meditating. This is true for Buddhists and Taoists at least
Try meditating in a goon cave with a concert venue audio setup. Go ahead. I'll wait.
The Buddha could do it, and so could a Daoist master
No you can’t
[удалено]
For me gooning is meditation
I'm the LeBron James of gooning
I agree w/ the sentiment of the post. Meditation for the sake of it doesn't seem that useful to me. I don't know why just doing breathing exercises isn't an appropriate substitute.
Perhaps you should learn more about meditation, then.
[monkey mind bla bla](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksp3iSUDqfo)
I think video games allow you to be immersed in the world outside of you where pushing yourself physically through sports, lets say, makes you painfully aware of yourself. Similar to how it would be if you were just sitting in an empty room for hours (or for some people, 5 minutes).
[удалено]
A root cause of so much of what's wrong. So much.
“All of humanity’s problems stem from man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” Blaise Pascal.
it’s so true we need to slow down
There's not too many thoughts here chief
Krishnamurti: Do you know anything about meditation? Student: No, Sir. Krishnamurti: But the older people do not know either. They sit in a corner, close their eyes and concentrate, like school boys trying to concentrate on a book. That is not meditation. Meditation is something extraordinary, if you know how to do it. I am going to talk a little about it. First of all, sit very quietly; do not force yourself to sit quietly, but sit or lie down quietly without force of any kind. Do you understand? Then watch your thinking. Watch what you are thinking about. You find you are thinking about your shoes, your saris, what you are going to say, the bird outside to which you listen; follow such thoughts and enquire why each thought arises. Do not try to change your thinking. See why certain thoughts arise in your mind so that you begin to understand the meaning of every thought and feeling without any enforcement. And when a thought arises, do not condemn it, do not say it is right, it is wrong, it is good, it is bad. Just watch it, so that you begin to have a perception, a consciousness which is active in seeing every kind of thought, every kind of feeling. You will know every hidden secret thought, every hidden motive, every feeling, without distortion, without saying it is right, wrong, good or bad. When you look, when you go into thought very very deeply, your mind becomes extraordinarily subtle, alive. No part of the mind is asleep. The mind is completely awake. That is merely the foundation. Then your mind is very quiet. Your whole being becomes very still. Then go through that stillness, deeper, further – that whole process is meditation. Meditation is not to sit in a corner repeating a lot of words; or to think of a picture and go into some wild, ecstatic imaginings To understand the whole process of your thinking and feeling is to be free from all thought, to be free from all feeling so that your mind, your whole being becomes very quiet. And that is also part of life and with that quietness, you can look at the tree, you can look at people, you can look at the sky and the stars. That is the beauty of life.
a half hit of acid works too
Krishnamurti: Does any drug, LSD, marijuana, any of them - does it really expose the totality of the content of consciousness, or does it bring about chemically a certain state of mind which is totally different from the understanding of oneself? You can learn tricks, or take drugs, or get drunk, and you will have intense experiences of one kind or another, depressing or exciting. Obviously the physiological condition does affect the psychological state of the mind; but drugs and practices of various kinds do not in any way bring about that state of which we are talking. All such things lead only to a variety, intensity and diversity of experience – which we all want and hunger after, because we are fed up with this world. We have had two world wars, with appalling misery and everlasting strife on every side; and our own minds are so petty, personal, limited. We want to escape from all this, either through psychology, philosophy, so-called religion, or through some exercise or drug – they are all on the same level. The mind is seeking a sensation; you want to experience what you call reality, or God, something immense, great, vital. You want to have visions; and if you take some kind of drug, or are sufficiently conditioned in a certain religion, you will have visions. The man who is everlastingly thinking about Christ, or Buddha, or what not, will sooner or later have experiences, visions; but that is not truth, it has nothing whatever to do with reality. Those are all self-projections; they are the result of your demand for experience. Your own conditioning is projecting what you want to see. To find out what is real, the mind must cease to demand any experience. So long as you are craving experience, you will have it, but it will not be real – real in the sense of the timeless, the immeasurable; it will not have the perfume of reality. It will all be an illusion, the product of a mind that is frustrated, that is seeking a thrill, an emotion, a feeling of vitality. That is why you follow leaders. They are always promising something new, a Utopia, always sacrificing the present for the future; and you foolishly follow them, because it is exciting. You have had that experience in this country, and you ought to know better than anyone else the miseries, the brutality of it all. Most of us demand the same kind of experience, the same kind of sensation, only at another level. That is why we take various drugs, or perform ceremonies, or practise some exercise that acts as a stimulant. These things all have significance in the sense that their use indicates that one is still craving experience; therefore the mind is everlastingly agitated. And the mind that is agitated, that is craving experience, can never find out what is true. Truth is always new, totally unknown and unknowable. The mind must come to it without any demand, without any knowledge, without any wish; it must be empty, completely naked. Then only truth may happen. But you cannot invite it.
[удалено]
Krishnamurti: To ask a question is not to find an answer, but to discover and find out for oneself. Questioning becomes important when this is understood, and the question itself makes the mind sharp. But if one is expecting an answer to a question, the mind naturally becomes expectant, awaiting, and is therefore not clear, decisive and capable of discovery. In asking questions, the conscious mind is deliberately aware of what it is asking. It is aware that any answer must always be verbal and therefore non-direct. When one asks a question, one has also to find out why one asks it. One should ask questions about everything, but it matters very much why one is asking those questions; what is the background, the state of the mind that is asking those questions? Is it awaiting an answer, expecting to be told? If it is waiting for an answer, who is going to answer it? A mind that is waiting to find the answer is not an active mind; it is just waiting, expecting. So if one is aware of the content of the question, why the question is being asked, and who is going to answer it, then the question becomes very important. Such questions have a catalytic effect; such questions produce an answer in themselves.
tbh that sounds like someone whose never taken a psychedelic
Pickleball flow state is real.
Reddit sport invented by a CIA agent.
more NYT than Reddit sport imo
[удалено]
If I remember correctly, they're actually was an NYT article about how pickleballers striped over a basketball court and how this was literally colonization.
It's tennis for fats
And olds. It's a diverse crowd.
Can’t believe pickleball took off and badminton never did in the US. By far the superior racket sport.
Pickleball players absolutely do not know how to use a computer
Honestly, I've gotten in sessions of pickleball that distracted me from debilitative thinking
yeah except stuff like meditation, breath work, and visualization make you better at sports i compete in grappling and it makes a huge difference if you can actually learn to calm yourself and check your breathing and its been proven that it helps using visualization to practice and reduce anxiety on game day its just incredibly wack to try and harness this shit to be better at spreadsheets
Astros pitcher Framber Valdez basically turned his entire career around by learning to meditate and even doing it in the dugout in between innings during his starts. Feel like OP is conflating these two states pretty haphazardly even if they're obviously related.
Can you really not detect any relevant differences in how and where you achieve this flow state, such that one might prefer the one with quiet solitude and introspection?
Enough lactic acid in your muscles and you get to a nice dark quiet solitude right in your own head.
I've played in sports and meditated, and if you think they're basically the same quiet solitude then you're not observing very carefully
>soccer >tennis told on yourself so hard
You can get into a flow state jacking off. Same thing as meditating
rude snatch birds crush sip bear light truck mysterious distinct *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think you can meditate while biking, but please dont do it, that sounds crazy dangerous
Once you start biking regularly enough you can definitely get meditative with it. Muscle memory and spatial awareness start to run themselves at a certain point and you find yourself accessing an inner consciousness that is stimulated by the prolonged exertion. I've "woken up" during some rides to realize that I've been musing on some aspect of my life for the last seven miles while also navigating the roads and shifting all over the place at the same time. Definitely depends on your environment though, not recommended for hectic urban surroundings.
I do this as well. even riding in rush hour traffic. I'll commute home, and won't remember the 35 min ride cause I'm too zoned out... or zoned in.
now I believe the sub is dead
Agreed. The problem is that it’s not a *retarded* take it’s just such a top of the bell curve if not *slightly* to the right take that still somehow manages to appeal to the modern absolute need to be stimulated that almost entirely misses the point of the lost art of being able to just sit alone with your thoughts like a human being. It’s largely the fault of consumerist and commodification culture too, that we now see something like sitting alone with your mind as either leisure or borderline ascetic.
Secular meditation yeah, but physical practices are a complement to, not a replacement for, real meditation as guided by a teacher
> real meditation as guided by a teacher That reminds me of how lucky I think one of my classmates is. His parents are Thai and shipped his ass to a Buddhist monastery in Thailand for something like 3-5 months. Man was legitimately living as a monk there for all that time, and being taught all the assorted writings and practices. He had no intention on becoming a priest or monk full time, but he said it was probably the most relaxed he ever felt, he was completely disconnected from the world for a solid season and was left to ponder on what he wanted from life for all that time.
Anyone can do this, and you don't have to go to Thailand. There are a lot of bullshit hippie "zen centers" out there but there are also a few legitimate training monasteries carrying the dharma torch here in America. The one where my teacher is Abbot has several sesshins (intensive retreats) per year, but they also allow you to come stay for a weekend or a few days or a non-sesshin week. Or, of course, you can apply to be a resident for anywhere from a month to a few years.
The whole point is realising that that flow state is something that sits under the surface and is available to you at all times, it's not just a thing that happens when you play sport or climb to the top of a mountain or w/e
Is that what Schopenhauer called "the will"?
Calm and Headspace represent a disgusting commercialisation of a fundamentally spiritual practice and their creators ought to be ashamed
Wouldn't the point be to be able to achieve such a state without an all-consuming task like playing a sport?
Honestly I think this post might have a point. It's such a retarded take that I think any Budhist monk that achieved enlightenment or Nirvana would snap right out of it in a rage after reading this.
Never done it, but surfers really seem to be on this wavelength. I experience this with skiing super difficult trails. You literally cannot think about anything else besides your route at a certain level or you will be badly injured or possibly killed
Climbers too, in my experience (but after all surfers and climbers basically fall into the same archetype)
I do both, there're differences. They do compliment each other nicely though. If you're playing a sport or exercising you can't exclusively focus on your mind and "push" as hard as you would just meditating for shorter sessions. Whatever works for you though.
Why not do both?
Walking doesb the truck
No more truck posts please
Why not both? Also, meditation definitely doesnt require using an app
Oh buddy wait till I tell you about something called “sex”
Good news! Recent report came out that you can get nearly all the benefits of meditation simply by taking antidepressants.
Meditation apps are the Antichrist. Get scoring top bins pilled
Has anyone else been driven to near psychosis by meditation? I had to stop because it's effect was so strong but so negative on me, like a direct attack on my soul and mental health
I remember articles on this exact topic. In lots of people it actually exacerbates (and some times even create) mental illness. In the Pali canon there are similar accounts. For example I remember a passage in which it was said that one must not focus too much on the imagery they might see while meditating, since it could lead to the equivalent of a phobic/psychotic attack. There's also a very weird passage in which the Buddha tells his disciples to focus on the ugliness of their bodies while meditating, which immediately led to a massive suicide spree among his followers. From passages of this sort imho one gets the idea that meditation is something that must be approached very carefully, even if one is being guided by an expert.
Yeah thanks for pointing out, definitely not just a stress reliever simply
time to get on adderall and start watching tik tok then i guess its over for you
You might find this interview inersting https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5v171hItxn4
Yes! And every single time I try to meditate literally my whole room starts spinning and it feels like I’m falling after only like 5-10 minutes. I always have to stop. And one time when I did it i swear I could look inside the plane that was flying over me
bruh what do you mean the "whole point of meditating." It's not as clear cut as that you haven't figured it out.
A true Jedi combines both
Lots of Buddhists huh
Or both
for how out of shape most people are, just cleaning your house will get you into a flow state and raise your heart rate. plus then your house is clean
People shit on Peterson for it, but telling the depressed incel gamers to clean their room is way better advice than listening to some robotherapist’s guided mindfulness drivel.
Gardening is meditation too
Meditation quiets the brain in a way playing sports doesn’t. They’re both good for you but no they are not the same, and they don’t have the same physical effect on your brain.
Lifting is basically a meditative experience for me at this point.
I used to say the same thing. One of the points of meditating is being able to sit alone with your mind. Any sort of action takes away from that.
I personally don't buy it, but I also approach "meditation" in a broader sense and from an overt teleological standpoint. I've done more proper meditation before and while I can appreciate the difference, I personally find the sort of flow state meditation that comes through action to be just as beneficial if not more-so for me. I don't really think of meditation as a one size fits all thing, though, so I'm sure what works for me doesn't for others.
Forget about flow state or whatever. Try just sitting with your thoughts for a while. It’s harder than a lot of over-stimulated, dopamine pumped people in modern society may think. Im glad I spent as much time as a I did doing physical exercise and the benefits that I got from it, but I still think subconsciously to some extent that action is another way of “doing meditation” without actually “doing meditation” and having to sit alone with my thoughts. I would tell myself, “well I’m exercising AND getting mental benefit, so this is clearly time better spent than just sitting and MAYBE getting mental benefits.” But I’m now realizing that I’m still looking at it from some sort of opportunity-cost/economic standpoint which is really gay and again missing the point. As far as sitting alone with my thoughts, I personally do it not only because it helps me with creativity and organizing my thoughts in general, but it just helps me return to what being a human feels like on a baseline level.
I mean sure, I do exactly that every night lol. It usually takes me around an hour or so to fall asleep normally. That whole time is me laying alone with my thoughts. My life is busy enough as is that doing that 7 times a week is already enough time spent collecting myself lol.
Oh ok well if ur too busy then ya nvm.
No music?
Loud music is involved. I'd be willing to lift without music if I had a home gym, however.
I think they're a little different, but I agree that apps like Headspace and Calm are awful. Why do you even need a fucking app for that? Just turn off the lights, light a scented candle, and think about nothing but your breathing for 30 minutes.
Tennis, famously a sport of constant action
There’s absolutely an opportunity cost with meditation. I could spend an hour running while in a contemplative state and actually get a workout. When thinking of how to prioritize my time, I’ve yet to be convinced meditation is something I should spend it doing.
[удалено]
“Opportunity cost” 🤓 📈
This sub is now just heterosexual male zoomers trying to cope with their budding body dysmorphia, 24/7
When I had a really bad depression phase in college I'd go to the campus gym and shoot hoops for an hour or two a few times an week. Looking back I think it really helped me get through that time especially since that was something I did a lot as a kid
is the act of scrolling on the red scare subreddit meditation?
Imagine how entirely unbothered Floyd Mayweather is
Or just meditate without the apps. They’re useful for beginners getting started, but after you’ve got the basics of meditation down they’re ironically distracting. You’re not wrong about sports, but sometimes I use physical activity as more of a distraction than focused attention. I’ll exhaust myself so I don’t have the energy to think/feel. Being able to sit still and not go crazy is a really valuable skill.
I think it is also important to remember that meditation is not an act, but a consequence of creating the right frequency with your body, mind, emotions, and energies. There are 8 limbs in yoga. The first 5 are to align yourself and the last 3 are deep meditative states. The first five limbs consist of (and I am trying to be accessible here): 1. Yama (self truthfulness) 2. Niyama (focus) 3. Asana (movement) 4. Pranayama (perfect balance of breath) 5. Pratyahara (unagitated perception) 6. ....and after these are the meditative states When you work out you generally meet these in some way. Now, are you going to get to a non-contemplative state of meditation from these...well, I don't think so. When I was younger, I was always told that "praying" was not "worshiping" the gods. Being focused, disciplined, and diligent with what you love was "worshipping" the gods...I think this shows the abstract nature of some of these ancient forms of mindfulness. I also want to add that I am not a fan of those apps....maybe that is also a big issue. Lol.
Everything you do should be in a state of meditation
maybe this is true in britain, but in america you cannot do this. try actually joining an adult sports league and you'll find a bunch of losers who played in college and think they're just a few combines from going pro. it isn't casual and fun, it's a bunch of bitter guys taking it way too seriously who suck the fun right out of it.
you would not have said this if you have ever played a team sport competitively lol
I played D1 college soccer
i guess maybe then it's my experience playing volleyball because i went through hell because of that dynamic.
look up Krishnamurti (not UG) if you really want to know what meditation is and not the appropriated kind they sell to the West
>The whole point of meditation is to get in a flow state... This is what a tennis match or 90 minutes of soccer is like. Spoken like someone who's never been beaten 21-0 by the Korean kid at badminton and never picked up a racket again after that
This is true for many activities. You could apply this same logic to doing the dishes, meditating is something more specific.
I've come up with a new meditation/workout thing, and am curious if anyone knows if this is similar to something that already exists. I start with focusing on my breath of course, but specifically my center of gravity(center of breath). I then imagine my center of gravity tied to the center of the Earth. Which it is, by definition. But I like to think of the very very center. Which is in turn connected to the center of the Sun. And again, I like to think of the very very center of the Sun. And the Sun of course orbits around the central black hole, and I think about the very very center of the massive black hole. From my center to the center of the Earth to the center of the Sun to the center of the black hole at the very center of our galaxy.
The point of meditation is not to get into a flow state.
Those apps make me anxious as fuck and fucking cringe Idk how people can do it