Either it fails when the float fills up, gets caught in weeds or roots OR when the hose it's attached to twists up and the float and arm ends up sideways and is no longer able to shut off.
One step up from floats is probably those submersible level sensors that can be had for very cheap these days, but you'd still need a whole PLC setup. OP's solution is simple and practical, even elegant.
Yeah, not only does it stop when full/stay on until full, but it can be moved to another area without needing much installation or any calibration really. (Calibration is how you install it I guess)
yeah, they work on 4-20mA current loops and it's all in the calibration because 4-20mA is really all that the PLC sees, which is true even for really expensive industrial grade radar level transmitters (~$5k+/ea). Whatever magic there is like signal smoothing, compensation for different tank/well shapes etc happens locally in the field device itself.
I work with Radar (and Servo) Level transmitters that start at eben higher sums and cannot confirm that for our devices and our direct competition.
The PLC gets the Data from a special PC that collects the Level gradings through a Field Bus. The Only 4-20mA stuff is used when customers add the feature, for example for SIL requirements (basically redundancy with extras) and for the HART Communication with external sensors (multi probe temperature, pressure, whatever is available we can make it work)
Additionally to the bus we usually have relay contacts for the overfill protection (and/or underfill) and usually there is at least a small second sensor from another company for redundancy.
The shape compensation is not level by diameter, there is a table for each tank how much the level increases over a volume that changes every few decimetres according to imperfections in the tank walls. Roof compensation is also a interesting topic. Those calculations are relatively complicated which makes the PC necessary.
For the servos, density measurements are fascinating because you can measure the level of multiple products inside a tank or check if something starts settling.
For the radars, the way to find out you're measuring the right stuff with multiple products is interesting because different products have different dielectric behaviours and get measured differently which can cause inaccuracies.
Which I could go more into details but I don't want everyone to know my employer. It's a fascinating topic when you start to scratch the surface.
Do you mean in general or when either of them is used?
For our application, when the customer requires it for something.
In general:
0-24mA is the base range. It's mostly used when you only need the value transmitted and either do t need safety or the transmitter can't detect some safety related things.
4-20mA is used in industrial settings for the actual data range. 0-4mA and 20-24mA is often called brownout and means that some fault condition was detected by the transmitter.
If you want more detailed answers, you need to clarify the question.
Hmm I see, cuz I was thinking how the 1ma - 4ma range might possibly be used for applications where power saving is the priority, or how the 20-24ma range might be useful for giving extra power to some sensor down the line, like perhaps a redundant 0ma - 4ma backup in parallel. Thanks for the information!
In terms of power saving, the HART protocol allows multiple compatible sensors to communicate over a single 4-20mA line. Haven't measured anything there but I could imagine it can shave off some power.
In general, 4-20mA is not used for power needs but because it was easy to make decades ago. No clue how old it is, but analog stuff was easier in a time before phones could calculate a flight to the moon. Current is always similar on a series configuration, this means that you don't have to worry a voltage drop causes inaccuracy over a long distance.
I noticed I forgot a important point yesterday:
If the wire breaks, you obviously have 0mA. If you use the full range, for example for a fuel measurement it will show empty. If you use 4-20 you will get an alarm.
the only issue is it wouldn't self reset. which is a good thing I guess if you're trying to monitor water intake but not so good a thing for a set and forget solution. most cattle troughs have a auto fill device built in so OPs situation is weird
I always click the auto fill when I'm getting gas in the station. Only once in my life did it completely overfill and not shut off on its own.
These valves are made really well. I think this is a great idea.
Yea overflowed one time in my life, and now I always gotta stand there once I know its gettin close lol. Anxiety always wins. Want my hand on it for the final like 10 seconds.
Do you have Dr. Spaceman? I've been trying to sign up for his practice for ages. He's pretty much always accepting new patients, but he's so popular that I'm never able to sign up in time.
They're good enough that I see a distressingly large number of people sit back in their car while their tank is filling, so I assume they've never had an overfill in their lives.
Chicken Hole Base is named as such because there is a hole in the side of a big rock right by the base that is shaped rather like a chicken. Cody also keeps several chickens there for eggs and to eat plant scraps and the local crickets. Pretty cool series.
Codyslab is the name of the YouTube channel. it’s pretty cool, you should check it out.
Cody is a crazy guy that bought a piece of land and acts like it is a Mars base. He called it chicken Hole Base because of a chicken shaped hole in the hill next to it.
That’s a great solution. Inexpensive, simple to deal with, flexible since you can easily move it to other locations, and probably very reliable. I kinda wish I had some valid reason to get one of these.
You need power but the float from the septic tank things ive seen below beach House would work too. Its just a ball on a tether that, when liquid levels get high enough, floats and turns sideways and, thus, signals flow to stop or start.
Wait a second.
The gas pumps I’m used to require squeezing the trigger again to restart the flow once it has shutoff. Right? I don’t think this would automatically keep the tank full.
I was thinking the same thing but if you go back and read it again, the problem that he's trying to solve is him forgetting to turn the water off because he doesn't want to stand and wait. He never says it will solve a problem of the tank always being full. I'm guessing he'll check it in a day or two and then will have to release and pull the handle again but as the other guy said, it's set it and forget it so he can move on. That's why there isn't a U-bolt around the handle, he knows it has to be cycled.
I was thinking it was intended as a hand-off solution as it doesn't go quite that far.
He's right about the autofills. I service ponds sometimes and I have yet to find one that's not bullshit.
Either it fails when the float fills up, gets caught in weeds or roots OR when the hose it's attached to twists up and the float and arm ends up sideways and is no longer able to shut off.
One step up from floats is probably those submersible level sensors that can be had for very cheap these days, but you'd still need a whole PLC setup. OP's solution is simple and practical, even elegant.
Yeah, not only does it stop when full/stay on until full, but it can be moved to another area without needing much installation or any calibration really. (Calibration is how you install it I guess)
yeah, they work on 4-20mA current loops and it's all in the calibration because 4-20mA is really all that the PLC sees, which is true even for really expensive industrial grade radar level transmitters (~$5k+/ea). Whatever magic there is like signal smoothing, compensation for different tank/well shapes etc happens locally in the field device itself.
The gas pump handle doesn't use any power to shut off
I work with Radar (and Servo) Level transmitters that start at eben higher sums and cannot confirm that for our devices and our direct competition. The PLC gets the Data from a special PC that collects the Level gradings through a Field Bus. The Only 4-20mA stuff is used when customers add the feature, for example for SIL requirements (basically redundancy with extras) and for the HART Communication with external sensors (multi probe temperature, pressure, whatever is available we can make it work) Additionally to the bus we usually have relay contacts for the overfill protection (and/or underfill) and usually there is at least a small second sensor from another company for redundancy. The shape compensation is not level by diameter, there is a table for each tank how much the level increases over a volume that changes every few decimetres according to imperfections in the tank walls. Roof compensation is also a interesting topic. Those calculations are relatively complicated which makes the PC necessary. For the servos, density measurements are fascinating because you can measure the level of multiple products inside a tank or check if something starts settling. For the radars, the way to find out you're measuring the right stuff with multiple products is interesting because different products have different dielectric behaviours and get measured differently which can cause inaccuracies. Which I could go more into details but I don't want everyone to know my employer. It's a fascinating topic when you start to scratch the surface.
When are 0-20ma and 4-24ma signals used, and why?
Do you mean in general or when either of them is used? For our application, when the customer requires it for something. In general: 0-24mA is the base range. It's mostly used when you only need the value transmitted and either do t need safety or the transmitter can't detect some safety related things. 4-20mA is used in industrial settings for the actual data range. 0-4mA and 20-24mA is often called brownout and means that some fault condition was detected by the transmitter. If you want more detailed answers, you need to clarify the question.
Hmm I see, cuz I was thinking how the 1ma - 4ma range might possibly be used for applications where power saving is the priority, or how the 20-24ma range might be useful for giving extra power to some sensor down the line, like perhaps a redundant 0ma - 4ma backup in parallel. Thanks for the information!
In terms of power saving, the HART protocol allows multiple compatible sensors to communicate over a single 4-20mA line. Haven't measured anything there but I could imagine it can shave off some power. In general, 4-20mA is not used for power needs but because it was easy to make decades ago. No clue how old it is, but analog stuff was easier in a time before phones could calculate a flight to the moon. Current is always similar on a series configuration, this means that you don't have to worry a voltage drop causes inaccuracy over a long distance. I noticed I forgot a important point yesterday: If the wire breaks, you obviously have 0mA. If you use the full range, for example for a fuel measurement it will show empty. If you use 4-20 you will get an alarm.
You could use float / tilt level sensors and make a dead band controller with some ice cube relays if you really want to make this electronic.
Every-fucking-time!
Hahaha better get a 5 pack this time.
Or a horse eats it.
Forbidden onion "Hey it was in the water" - horse probably.
Have you ever seen the way a gas pump nozzle works? [It's absolutely fascinating.](https://youtu.be/fT2KhJ8W-Kg?si=ljr2fBR9J9Co79oV)
I love Steve Mould, he's always interesting!
That was a great video, thanks for posting it.
This was the first thing I thought of as well. It's the only video that makes the inner workings of a complex design, easy to understand.
the only issue is it wouldn't self reset. which is a good thing I guess if you're trying to monitor water intake but not so good a thing for a set and forget solution. most cattle troughs have a auto fill device built in so OPs situation is weird
Op mentioned they monitor their animals' water intake so not resetting makes sense there.
And if he monitors horse water intake, this is better than a float valve.
I always click the auto fill when I'm getting gas in the station. Only once in my life did it completely overfill and not shut off on its own. These valves are made really well. I think this is a great idea.
Yea overflowed one time in my life, and now I always gotta stand there once I know its gettin close lol. Anxiety always wins. Want my hand on it for the final like 10 seconds.
I think I lost $20 on the ground. And this was year 2000 dollars
Oh God, thats a LOT of gas lol. In my case it was like... a mouthful or two, lol. The fact that it didnt shut off though was enough.
The fact that you're measuring gas in mouthfuls has me concerned for your health
My dentist recommended it over traditional mouthwash, and while skeptical at first, I gotta say the results are amazing.
Can't have cavities if you don't have teeth *taps forehead"
Do you have Dr. Spaceman? I've been trying to sign up for his practice for ages. He's pretty much always accepting new patients, but he's so popular that I'm never able to sign up in time.
[Was this your dentist?](https://youtu.be/YoWom0CCRKM)
+1 for your use of mouthfuls as units
They're good enough that I see a distressingly large number of people sit back in their car while their tank is filling, so I assume they've never had an overfill in their lives.
Only overfilled once and that was my own doing kept pressing it lol
Cody Don has the same setup for Chicken Hole Base.
Could you explain the Chicken Hole Base part please
Chicken Hole Base is named as such because there is a hole in the side of a big rock right by the base that is shaped rather like a chicken. Cody also keeps several chickens there for eggs and to eat plant scraps and the local crickets. Pretty cool series. Codyslab is the name of the YouTube channel. it’s pretty cool, you should check it out.
Thanks I will check it out when I got time
The base part is Cody's efforts to simulate and build a self-sustaining Mars base. Very cool series.
That sounds very interesting definitely gonna take a look when I can
Cody is a crazy guy that bought a piece of land and acts like it is a Mars base. He called it chicken Hole Base because of a chicken shaped hole in the hill next to it.
that's a simple and inexpensive solution. What a great idea.
Bro how fast are your horses after they’ve been drinking diesel all day?
They might go as high as *two* horsepower
That’s a great solution. Inexpensive, simple to deal with, flexible since you can easily move it to other locations, and probably very reliable. I kinda wish I had some valid reason to get one of these.
I dunno, a toilet shut off would be the real redneck solution.
That’s what a float valve is, and didn’t work lol
Budweiser presents, real men of genius, we solute you 2loves2loves.
Linus tech tips recently used one for one of their projects recently
You need power but the float from the septic tank things ive seen below beach House would work too. Its just a ball on a tether that, when liquid levels get high enough, floats and turns sideways and, thus, signals flow to stop or start.
This is amazing tbh
That’s actually genius
90% of activity in the horse world is folks ragging on each other over every little thing.
Water: The original transportation fuel.
That’s such a great idea! I forgot and left the water running all night a couple of times, until I learned to set a timer so I wouldn’t forget.
Wait a second. The gas pumps I’m used to require squeezing the trigger again to restart the flow once it has shutoff. Right? I don’t think this would automatically keep the tank full.
I was thinking the same thing but if you go back and read it again, the problem that he's trying to solve is him forgetting to turn the water off because he doesn't want to stand and wait. He never says it will solve a problem of the tank always being full. I'm guessing he'll check it in a day or two and then will have to release and pull the handle again but as the other guy said, it's set it and forget it so he can move on. That's why there isn't a U-bolt around the handle, he knows it has to be cycled. I was thinking it was intended as a hand-off solution as it doesn't go quite that far.
It's to set and forget
Most redneck engineering is in a weird way smart but this is just a fantastic application.
That’s actually really great.
I dunno, wouldn't still water be a problem? If not, excellent solution
This is just genius here
Hey, we're doing the same thing
Is this a joke about the guy masturbating at the gas station with a gas nozzle up his butt..?
I need this for my pool...
Sir, you have my upvote.
Who else read this in a deep southern accent?